New Sherwood Newcastle Pre/Pro/Tuner

[Will]

I understand the Sherwood Newcastle P-958 pre/pro/tuner will replace the Sherwood AVP-9080R pre/pro/tuner. Any idea when it will be out or what it will cost? Here (http://www.sherwoodusa.com/2002products/2002HTML/P958.html) is some information on the new Sherwood pre/pro/tuner, from January 2002 CES. The information says it has Dolby Headphone and a dedicated room 2 remote, and is available next month (September 2002), but I take that availability date (from January) with a grain of salt.

[John Kotches]

Will,

Have you tried contacting Sherwood to see what they have to say about the product?

Here's the contact page from their web site.

http://www.sherwoodamerica.com/corp/corp_cnt.htm

[Will]

I haven't contacted Sherwood (at least not recently) but as late as March 2002, Jeff Hipps of Sherwood said their P-958 pre/pro/tuner would be introduced in the CEDIA Expo in September 2002 and be available afterwards (but not sure when afterwards). He also said in March its SRP was tentatively $1500.

[Jose_L]

I contacted Sherwood here's my reply:

Dear Mr. Lasseigne,

Our new pre/pro is currently still under development. We expect it to be available in late January 03. It will feature the Cirrus/ Crystal processor. Thank you for your inquiry.

sincerely,
SHERWOOD AMERICA
Gary Graning
national director of sales


My Guess would be it's at the price point of $1500 which would
place it in competition w/ the 950 & the 1066 which all seem to be using
the Cirrus/Crystal processor.

What would be great if the Receiver Manf. released their flagship receivers
minus the amp sections and sold them for $2000 max.

I say this because now you can find a Yamaha RX-Z1 for $1999.


Regards
Jose

[John Kotches]

Will,

I don't recall passing by Sherwood's booth at CEDIA, because I certainly would have said hello to Jeff if I saw him.

Regards,

[george king]

Someone on another forum asked this question and Jeff Hipps said that it would be out around March of next year. He did not mention pricing.

Hope this helps.

[Will]

It's now March 2003. Has there been an announcement about the Sherwood Newcastle P-958 pre/pro/tuner? Was it displayed at CES 2003 last January, like it was in January 2002?

[dsmith901]

Has Jeff Hipps been replaced by Mr. Graning?

Dsmith

[jorisr]

The Pre/Pro/Tuner you're talking about is actually cancelled.

The P-958 that is, it's companion amp is also cancelled(A-958)

The good news is that they are replaced by in my opinion more interesting models.

You can find more info through
this link (http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?threadid=125672)

I've seen the pdf for their upcoming products and i must say the new flagship-receiver as well as the pre/pro look very good.

The featureset is just as impressive.


Hope this helps.

[Nick V]

Here you go, for your reading pleasure:

New for 2003
2346 E. Walnut Avenue Tel: (800) 962-3203
Fullerton, CA 92831 Fax: (714) 888-2116
www.sherwoodusa.com
P-965
Dolby Digital EX/DTS ES
Tuner/Preamp/Processor
Includes the features of the Sherwood Newcastle
R-963 receiver plus the following Decodes all
of today’s 6.1/7.1 formats including DTS 96/24
Dolby Pro Logic II fully adjustable for Movie,
Music, Matrix, Emulated + Music Parameter Control
Dolby Headphone Layer 1/2/3 Operating
system is software upgradeable via RS-232 or
USB port Bass Crossover frequency selectable at 40 Hz to 120 Hz in 20 Hz increments "Universal Video" converts
composite video and S-Video to Component Video Dedicated Room 2 Audio/Video Output w/ S-Video and Digital out
Dedicated Room 2 IR Remote Control Rear Panel Room-2 IR control with 2 inputs and one output 2 user definable 12-
Volt DC Triggers On-Screen Display from Composite, S-Video and Component 3 Sets Rear Panel Component
Video Inputs with 50 MHz bandwidth 10-step Dynamic Range Control FM Station Naming Advanced Preprogrammed
and Learning Remote Control.
SRP: $1499.95 Available: October, 2003

A-965
7 Channel Main Amplifier
All Channels Driven—110 Watts RMS per
channel x 7 from 20 Hz to 20 kHz into 8 ohms
with no more than 0.05% THD All Channels
Driven—165 Watts RMS per channel x 7 from 20
Hz to 20 kHz into 4 ohms with no more than
0.09% THD TDAS—Totally Discrete Amplifier
Stage for all channels IMD at Rated
Power: < 0.05% Frequency Response +0, -2
dB: 5 Hz to 200 kHz Damping Factor at 8
ohms: > 145 Signal-to- Noise Ratio: > 105 dB Channel Separation (input shorted): 55 dB @ 1 kHz; 45 dB @ 10
kHz SRP: $1499.95 Available: October, 2003

[Will]

The Sherwood A-965 and P-965 expected in October 2003 are like the P-958 and A-958 from January 2002, with minor updates. Maybe Sherwood thought 2002 wasn't a good year to introduce an inexpensive pre/pro/tuner with DPL II, or a low power 7 channel amp. Wonder what Outlaw knew that Sherwood did not? :)

Here's some information on the now-discontinued P-958 from the January 2002 CES:

7.1 channels
Bass Management
Re-masters PCM to 192/24
DTS Neo
Adjustable DPL II Movie and Music
Dolby Headphone
4 Optical and 2 Coaxial Inputs
Digital Output
Photo Input
On Screen Display
HDVT Ready Component Video Switching
Programmable Video Input Labeling
Room 2 A/V Output with fixed/variable audio
Dedicated Room 2 Remote
Indepenent Video Reocrd Out Selector
12-Volt Trigger
RNC-500 Remove

Same tentative SRP as the P-965, up above.



Here's some information on the now-discontinued A-958 from the January 2002 CES:

7 channel main amplifier
110 Watts RMS per channel x 7 from 20 Hz to 20 kHz into 8 ohms, no more than 0.05% THD
165 Watts RMS per channel x 7 from 20 Hz to 20 kHz into 4 ohms, no more than 0.09% THD
TDS - Totall Discrete Amplifier
IMD at Rated Power < 0.05%
Frequency Response +0, -2 db: 5 Hz to 200 kHz
Damping Factor at 8 ohms > 145
Signal-to- Noise Ratio > 105 dB
Channel Separation (input shorted): 55 db @ 1 kHz, 45 dB @ 10 kHz

[Starsky]

Sounds like another Outlaw 950/ Sherbourn PT-7000/ Atlantic Tech P-2000 clone, although the "system is software upgradeable via RS-232 or
USB port " sounds interesting and needed from what I've read about the others!

[Nick V]

I couldn't tell you if the internals are identical to the Outlaw/Sherbourn/A-Tech, but the casing is completely different. This thing is huge, about the same size as their receivers. Same size as their last pre/pro.

BTW, anyone know if the Sherbourn/A-tech units are EXACT clones of the Outlaw, or do they have upgraded circuitry?? Just wondering what justifies the increase in price over the 950??

[Will]

The Sherwood Newcastle pre/pro, although not out, is probably different from the Outlaw and its Sherbourn and Atlantic Tech clones.

The Outlaw and the Sherbourn and Atlantic Tech clones however are supposedly 100% functionally identical, with identical user interfaces, right down to the same idosyncracies and bugs (assuming you compare apples to apples by using the same revision level, and there are different revisions of the 950) although there certainly are cosmetic diffences, to the box. There may be higher grade parts inside the high priced clones, or at least that's the claim you'll hear. But functionally, they are 100% identical right on down to their idosyncracies.

[Starsky]

If the physical layout is vastly different then my newbie guess would be it would have significant differences from the outlaw clone, I say this just because the clones are all virtually identical physically outside of minor cosmetics.
Here is an article that cracks two of the three open:
http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/clone_prepros8.php
Currently I'm looking for a new system (pre/pro, amp and 5 speakers) and The Sherbourn is on the shortlist.

The most interesting part is the last page where "Ron Fone, President and Founder of Sherbourn Technologies, Inc, ... comments on this article" regarding the component video bandwidth improvement from 40mhz to 55mhz. For me this was the deciding factor and I'm tracking down a street price for the unit. From what I've been told the it can be had for considerably less then MSRP.

After reading this post, I did some research on the rotel feature list and specs. I was surprised to discover they have upgraded their component video section to 100mhz!

It's funny the Rotel was my first knee jerk pick when I started researching a new system about a month ago but the poor video bandwidth listed on their website knocked it out of the running early, but man what a looker. So now, I'm back in love with the Rotel. I think I need a girlfriend.

[Will]

I had hoped Sherwood Newcastle would have an inexpensive DPL II pre/pro/tuner last year. It's been a year since the Outlaw 950 came out. Even today, the only inexpensive DPL II pre/pro/tuners on the market are Outlaw and Outlaw clones.

Where's Sony, Onkyo, Yamaha, Denon or Pioneer?

[Starsky]

What about Adcom's GTP-860 retails for about $1200, and the Rotel 1066 at $1499 (not sure on street price, if anyone knows please share). Are these not in the same league feature-wise as the 950 ilk? Granted Adcom and Rotel aren't exacly the "big boys" but they've been around and paid their dues, no?

As far as the bandwidth on the PT-7000, if President and Founder of Sherbourn Technologies claims they've improved the bandwidth and provides a number ( i.e. 55mhz ) I'm willing to take his word for it. Call me a sucker but sometimes you just have to believe what people say. I did read in article in Sound and Vision(?) that confirmed the other changes to the unit listed by Ron Fone but, the article unfortunately didn't mention anything about the video section.

[Stereojeff]

I'm certainly not happy with the delays on the Pre-pro, either, but we decided that it didn't make sense to package all this new technology in a chassis that first shipped in 1998. Thus, we scrapped plans for the P-958 and went forward with the P-965.

As to the relationship between Sherwood Newcastle and Outlaw/Sherbourne/Atlantic Technology--aside from the fact that I know their executives personally--there is none.

All Sherwood Newcastle products are designed and manufactured in-house. They are not sourced from Eastech or from anyone else.

As many of you may already know, Sherwood's parent company is one of the world's pre-eminent OEM audio manufacturers. With Newcastle, we take what we have learned interacting with the engineers of all the fancy audio brands, improve upon it and build our own gear.

We may often come to market late as our OEM customers usually get manufacturing preference, but IMHO, our products, and Newcastle in particular, need take a back seat to no one.

Jeff Hipps
Sr. VP
Marketing and Product Planning
Sherwood America

[Nick V]

Jeff,

Have you heard anything about whether or not the new pre/pro converts the analog multi-channel input to digital in order to perform the bass-management??

Thanks

[Stereojeff]

Nick:

In my opinion, converting analog to digital to perform bass management would be what we used to call "a contradiction in terms." Don't look for that kind of backward thinking in the P-965.

Jeff

[coach]

I am now looking back at the time when I had a Newcastle r-956. Simply because we were moving out of state, I decided to sell the unit to lighten up the load and generate some extra cash. If I could only do it over again....

[mbpg]

Originally posted by Stereojeff
Nick:

In my opinion, converting analog to digital to perform bass management would be what we used to call "a contradiction in terms." Don't look for that kind of backward thinking in the P-965.

Jeff Jeff

Will all other aspects of this unit live up to the same standards? Where can we get more details?

Michael

[Stereojeff]

Michael:

In my opinion, the P-965 will be a very worthy successor to our acclaimed AVP-9080 and will break new ground with some of its features.

We have a preliminary PDF file available with the '03 Newcastle additions. Please e-mail me at jeff@sherwoodamerica.com or leave a PM if you want a copy.

Jeff

[Will]

Hi Jeff,

When will the P-965 be displayed as a prototype (perhaps CEDIA Expo 2003?) and when will the P-965 realistically be available for sale?

Will

[Stereojeff]

Will:

We will have working versions of both the P-965 and the A-965 in Indianapolis for the (early September) CEDIA Expo.

I expect to be shipping within the 4th quarter, 2003.

Jeff

[Nick V]

Jeff, I asked the question because it was unclear earlier as stated in this thread (http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=125672&highlight=new+sherwood+pre%2Fpro) over at the other forum.

[beboram]

I also have been contemplating an Outlaw or a Sherbourn pre/pro. The issue I have with both is in their rated dynamic range as compared to rated the dynamic range of my CD player. I tend to listen to music more often than I watch video. The depending on analog by pass or digital mode the dynamic range of both pre/pros come up short by about 2 to 4dBs. The difference may not be significant in practice but at least on paper the pre/pro should not limit the dynamic range of the CD player. No one has yet been able to assure me that I may be splitting hairs.

Any opinions?

[Will]

Originally posted by Stereojeff

All Sherwood Newcastle products are designed and manufactured in-house. They are not sourced from Eastech or from anyone else.

That's because Sherwood is owned by the Korean OEM company Etronics (was Inkel), a competitor of Eastech. According to www.sherwoodusa.com/corp/images/sherwoodhistory.pdf

In 1980, Sherwood was acquired by Inkel Corporation of Korea, one of the leading OEM manufacturers of audio equipment... In Stereophile's Guide to Home Theater, Michael Fremer reported that Inkel's customers included Adcom, SAE, Kenwood, Marantz, Philips, Yamaha, Denon and Harman Kardon. Inkel's spokesman would neither confirm nor deny the list of customers... In January, 2001, Inkel changed its name to Etronics.


Anybody hear anything else about the Sherwood Pre/Pro Turner due later this year?

[John Ashman]

I haven't and I'm a dealer. Jeff, if you're around, as a dealer, having Sherwood Newcastle being low priority for Inkel really isn't very acceptable. It's hard to sell product that is fantastic, but comes out to compete a year or two after it could have. Something has to change or Newcastle is never really going to take off. Denon's huge sales is due exclusively to the "we'll introduce it first" mentality. If Newcastle did the same, it would be that big. Unless there is a strategy of not competing with Etronics customers. In which case, Newcastle is succeeding fantastically.

[Dan Driscoll]

According to the .pdf Jeff sent me a couple of weeks ago (thanks Jeff!) the P-965 will be available in October with an MSRP of $1500. It will have DLP-II, DD-EX, DTS-EX, composite/S-video to component conversion, 2 zone capability, etc.

There's nothing in the info I received about a digital DVD-A interface.

[dsmith901]

Originally posted by Dan Driscoll
According to the .pdf Jeff sent me a couple of weeks ago (thanks Jeff!) the P-965 will be available in October with an MSRP of $1500. It will have DLP-II, DD-EX, DTS-EX, composite/S-video to component conversion, 2 zone capability, etc.

There's nothing in the info I received about a digital DVD-A interface.

It should not be expensive to include a firewire connection, but configuring it into the rest of the circuitry may be a more expensive situation, especially if they are in the final design stages.

Dsmith

[Will]

Of course the new Sherwood pre/pro will have DPL-II, DD-EX and DTS-EX. Pre/pro's in the Sherwood's price range, like Outlaw and Rotel have had those features for more than 16 months.

I'm a little surprised the new Sherwood pre/pro won't have digital DVD-A firewire support, because even some receivers have had this for over six months.

[Stereojeff]

Will:

Support for a proprietary digital interconnection format has little meaning unless you can also supply the source unit. We do not currently have such a DVD/A or SACD player.

Jeff HIpps

[Will]

Pioneer has such a player. The digital interface isn't proprietary.

[Utopia]

I am waiting to upgrade my Sony 9000ES until a Pre/Amp Pro supports direct digital to digital audio for SACD and DVD/A. I thought HDMI was a agreed interface for digital audio and video. The content providers are screwing us all! The honest consumers always get short changed. DVI HDCP, no digital audio interface thats not proprietary etc, etc, etc.

I will not buy any SCAD or DVD/A software or upgrade my Pre/Amp Pro until there is a straight digital interface on my DVD player and Pre/Amp PRO period.

[Stereojeff]

Will:

We will definitely show both the P-965 pre/pro and the A-965 at CEDIA. And we are on track for their arrival in the US in October.

Jeff Hipps

[Sven_DP]

Jeff, Any idea why it wasn't shown at IFA Berlin? Any idea if and when the European introduction will happen? Thx. Sven

[Will]

Does the P-965 pre/pro/tuner have DPL IIx? If not will DPL IIx be available by a later (flash or RS-232) upgrade?

[Stereojeff]

Will:

When we beginning shipping the P-965 next month (October, 2003) DPLIIx will not be included. However, it will become available at some time in the future via USB or RS232 upgrade.

Jeff Hipps

[tjk002]

Jeff, is there a link, or a page that we can check out the new product, been waiting patiently for a while, and am getting a little anxious. Thanks.

[Stereojeff]

I am currently in Indianapolis at the CEDIA Expo and can send literature in PDF format on my return to California on Tuesday, September 9. Please email me at: jeff@sherwoodamerica.com if you want to receive it.

Jeff

[Will]

Hi Jeff,

Is the P-965 shipping the first or second half of October 2003.

Best,

Will

[Stereojeff]

Will:

The new pre-pro will be shipping in the second half of October.

I just found out that we will have DPL IIx and Dolby Virtual Speaker included in the P-965 (and the new receivers) from the first units. Ah, the joys of an upgradeable operating system.

Also, there is a brochure covering the P-965, A-965 and the smaller siblings --the R-965 flagship receiver and the R-865 7.1 A/V receiver on our web site at: www.sherwoodusa.com. It was written for CEDIA so the thrust is custom installation, but I think that anyone interested in these high performance products will find it interesting.

Jeff Hipps

[Sven_DP]

Jeff, any idea when these products will be available in Europe, as they weren't showed at IFA Berlin, probably because CEDIA was just before IFA.

thx. Sven

[williak]

No IEEE1394 interface, no customer.

[Will]

Assuming the P-965 comes out next month, it will be by far, the least expensive pre/pro/tuner with DPL IIx.

It's also about 18 months newer technologically than the least expensive DPL II pre/pro's (Rotel) and pre/pro/tuner's (Outlaw and its clones) on the market today.

Rotel or Outlaw may offer an inexpensive upgrade. Or someone else may enter the inexpensive DPL IIx pre/pro market. (Are you listening Sony, Pioneer, Yamaha and Onkyo?) But until then, the Sherwood Newcastle is the only inexpensive DPL IIx pre/pro/tuner on the radar.

Best,

Will

[Stereojeff]

Sven:

Euorpean production typically lags the US by 30 to 45 days.

Jeff

[Will]

No IEEE1394 interface, no customer.

Can't argue against that. Unfortunately no other inexpensive pre/pro has the standard DVD-A/SACD IEEE 1394 interface either. Maybe somebody's inexpensive pre/pro will have it in '04....

Best,

Will

[Alimental]

I just read, and I don't know if it's true, that Meridian claims that the implementation of 1394 necessarily has to drop the sampling frequency to 48kHz in surround sound, and I think, the same or maybe 96kHz in stereo and thus they found it unacceptable and are using theirs so they can pass 96kHz and 192kHz. Bandwidth limitations? Legal issues? Anybody know about this? I also heard that there will be an HDMI implementation for DVD-A and SACD that will pass full bandwidth, likely to be adopted by the high-end American/European companies. Anyone? Bueller?

[Johnla]

Originally posted by Stereojeff
Will:


Also, there is a brochure covering the P-965, A-965 and the smaller siblings --the R-965 flagship receiver and the R-865 7.1 A/V receiver on our web site at: www.sherwoodusa.com. It was written for CEDIA so the thrust is custom installation, but I think that anyone interested in these high performance products will find it interesting.

Jeff Hipps

Are the specs on that PDF real accurate?

Because it shows the A-965 as being 120watts X 7 at 8 ohms, and 150watts X 7 at 4 ohms. As that seems kind of a weak output for the 4 ohms spec. Most amps made in that power range seem to gain more than just 30 watts on the 4 ohms specs. Usually around 175 or 200 would seem the norm for most others, it they were running 120 at 8 ohms. At the 76 lbs it shows for the weight if it, it certainly weighs as much as most other good amps do in that power range. So it must have a somewhat hefty power supply in it. So it just seems that the 4 ohms specs are on the low side, of what other brands are.

[Stereojeff]

Johnla:

Our specs for the A-965 are full FTC legal (with preconditioning, etc.), for all 7 seven channels driven at any combination of frequencies between 20 Hz and 20 kHz with no more than 0.02% THD. Under these stringent conditions, the Newcastle A-965 amp is rated at 150 Watts RMS x 7 into 4 ohms and 120 watts x 7 into 8 ohms. These numbers imply a 2000 watt power supply.

Had we rated the amp with more conventional standards (liberal, non FTC, one or two channels driven at a time, higher THD), we could have claimed substantially higher 4 ohm numbers.

Jeff

[dsmith901]

Jeff, for a better comparison, what does the amp do in two channel output with 8 and 4 ohms?

Dsmith

[Stereojeff]

I've asked the factory for the steady state and dynamic numbers of 8, 4 and 2 ohms. I'll post them to this thread as soon as I have them.

Jeff

[dsmith901]

Originally posted by Stereojeff
I've asked the factory for the steady state and dynamic numbers of 8, 4 and 2 ohms. I'll post them to this thread as soon as I have them.

Jeff

Jeff, thanks. Do you have a firm ship date yet? Also, how long is the Newcastle warranty?

Dsmith

[Stereojeff]

The warranty for all Sherwood Newcastle products is 3 years parts and labor.

We expect to ship in the last half of October.

Jeff

[dsmith901]

Jeff, thanks. The P-965 really looks very nice. Any thought to including Circle Surround(II) also?

Dsmith

[Will]

Hi Jeff,

StereoJeff posted on 09-17-03
The new pre-pro will be shipping in the second half of October.

Will most Sherwood dealers in America will have a unit on hand by the end of October (this month)?

I just found out that we will have DPL IIx and Dolby Virtual Speaker included in the P-965 (and the new receivers) from the first units. Ah, the joys of an upgradeable operating system.

Since DPL IIx is brand new from Dolby, I was wondering if Dolby has already certified the final shipping version of DPL IIx on the Sherwood P-965?

Thanks!

Will

[Sven_DP]

Second half of october? On HTF half november was mentioned...

I have never ever known a brand like this really. I can't speak for the US where at least Jeff provides some information through the internet, but in Europe it seems even worse : No marketing, no branding, no local support (except maybe for Germany, and France where there seem to be major support problems), no announcements...and still good products.

Why is the US website still not updated on the new products, except for a rather vague pdf file which seems to be 'cut off' from the rest of the site? Why is the only European website (www.sherwood.de (http://www.sherwood.de) ) 'dead' since two years? I really wonder how a company can survive this way, especially in today's economic situation. I could be wrong, but to me this seems more like a company, or division, struggling for survival. :(

grz. Sven

[Alimental]

Originally posted by Sven_DP
Second half of october? On HTF half november was mentioned...

I have never ever known a brand like this really. I can't speak for the US where at least Jeff provides some information through the internet, but in Europe it seems even worse : No marketing, no branding, no local support (except maybe for Germany, and France where there seem to be major support problems), no announcements...and still good products.

Why is the US website still not updated on the new products, except for a rather vague pdf file which seems to be 'cut off' from the rest of the site? Why is the only European website (www.sherwood.de (http://www.sherwood.de) ) 'dead' since two years? I really wonder how a company can survive this way, especially in today's economic situation. I could be wrong, but to me this seems more like a company, or division, struggling for survival. :(

grz. Sven

I think the problem is that the main company makes so much money as an OEM builder that Sherwood the brand is largely left hanging. How else can you explain a 3 year or so gap between preamp/amp combos? And constant delays in bringing product to production. I would expect it would be infuriating for a dealer.

[Will]

Stereojeff,

Are you around anymore?

[Stereojeff]

Still here. Been busy soldering.

Jeff

[Jim Noyd]

Originally posted by Stereojeff
Still here. Been busy soldering.

Jeff Soldering Denon, HK and Kenwood logos on Sherwood receivers?

[dsmith901]

Originally posted by Jim Noyd
Soldering Denon, HK and Kenwood logos on Sherwood receivers?

Now that's just mean. Be nice.

Dsmith

[Sven_DP]

Originally posted by Jim Noyd
Soldering Denon, HK and Kenwood logos on Sherwood receivers?

ROFLOLLLLL

Mean? Come on, just imagine Jeff in his garage soldering all these logo's one by one... :D :D :D

[M Code]

Originally posted by Jim Noyd
Soldering Denon, HK and Kenwood logos on Sherwood receivers?

Oops..
HK ain't been made at ETronics for over 6 years.. But you mite find some Marantz logos in Jeff's garage. :D ;) :cool:

[Raistlin_HT]

Stereojeff,

Earlier you had mentioned that firewire wouldn't be happening due to it being proprietary.

Now that is has been standardized, are there any plans to bring out a pre/pro or receiver with firewire?





To all,

Is there any truth about those rumored comments from Meridian regarding bandwith limitations for firewire? Too me, it sound like a DSP issue.

[Stereojeff]

We expect to have the Newcastle P-965 tuner/preamp/processor in stores around December 10, 2003.

As to Firewire, we are continually evaluating emerging technologies and Firewire is certainly on our list. However, I am not able to provicde any schedule for its inclusion in our products at this time.

Jeff Hipps

[valkyrie]

Jeff, what's the MSRP on the P-965? Thanks.

[Stereojeff]

The SRP for the Newcastle P-965 is $1499.95.
Jeff

[valkyrie]

Jeff, how about the R-965. Do you have a SRP and ETA?

Thanks.

[Alimental]

Jeff,
How has being purchased by Etronics affected Sherwood products and design? I'm assuming that all the new products are different designs? And are they made in different plants? Did Inkel's plant go with it or is Sherwoods basically a whole new company with totally different design and all that? I'm assuming you're going to say that there is no downside, though one thing I was surprised by in the past with Sherwood products was their amazing reliabilty. I guess the succinct question is "what do new Sherwoods have in common with Sherwoods of a few years back?" I notice that styling has changed quite a bit, though I'm not sure that the older stuff wasn't more attractive.

[Will]

Sherwood was bought by Inkel/Etronics over 20 years ago. According to www.sherwoodusa.com/corp/images/sherwoodhistory.pdf

In 1980, Sherwood was acquired by Inkel Corporation of Korea, one of the leading OEM manufacturers of audio equipment... In Stereophile's Guide to Home Theater, Michael Fremer reported that Inkel's customers included Adcom, SAE, Kenwood, Marantz, Philips, Yamaha, Denon and Harman Kardon. Inkel's spokesman would neither confirm nor deny the list of customers.

... In January, 2001, Inkel changed its name to Etronics.

[Alimental]

Huh. I just saw that the parent company was now Etronics but had no idea that it was the same company. That's odd. What's the advantage of changing the name of your company? Especially when most people have no idea who Inkel OR Etronics is? Oh well, back to business....

[Stereojeff]

Joel:

Actually the Inkel name is quite well known in international electronics. Not only were we the actual manufacturer for 30% of the Dolby certified receivers sold in the world, (in the mid 90's), there are also several hundered Inkel stores in S. Korea where Inkel is the oldest and still the most respected hi fi brand in the country.

Around 1995 Inkel was acquired by the Haitai group in Korea and became known as Haitai Electronics. When the financial crisis hit Asia in 1997, the Haitai Group was broken up (it is now defunct) and some of the Inkel acquisition was rolled back. With the Haitai name then discredited and Inkel still in the professional electronics business, we needed a new name and Etronics was chosen, partially because it seemed indicative of both high tech and electronics.

Incidentally, we are not related to the US internet wholesaler also called Etronics.

Jeff

[dsmith901]

FYI, I just got off the phone with a Sherwood rep (not Jeff) and he said they have a shipment on the sea right now and they should be at the dealers in about a week, so maybe the 12/10 date is a good one. It is a pretty small shipment (100) so don't expect dealer discounts. MSRP for the pre is $1,495, and $1,995 for the receiver, something of a switch in the usual scenario.

Dsmith

[Dan Driscoll]

Originally posted by dsmith901
MSRP for the pre is $1,495, and $1,995 for the receiver, something of a switch in the usual scenario.

From the documentation I have seen so far, the chassis for the P-965 and R-965 are the same. The processor section of the R-965 also has exactly the same specifications as the P-965 pre-pro. This leads me to believe that the P-965 may be simply a de-amped version of the R-965, with a slightly different back panel and different silf screening.

I am not implying this is a bad thing, in fact I think it makes very good sense. It allows them to manufacture processors on the same production line as the receivers, they just get diverted before the amps are installed. So the processor benfits for the same economics of scale the the receiver gets. Of course, regardless of specs, the actual noise floor of the processor should be measurably lower than the receiver, simply due to the lack of thermal noise from the amps, if nothing else. However, I'm sure there are other benfits, also, but probably not as significant.

[dsmith901]

Dan, I think you're right and its too bad more manufacturers don't do it this way IMO.

BTW, I meant to add that I was told the Newcastle line is not available over the internet, so unless there is a dealer nearby you may have trouble getting one.

Dsmith

[snipeman]

I've got a Sherwood Newcastle R-963. What would a R-965 do better, and is it worth the upgrade?

I use my R-963 with a HTPC to listen to LAME VBR encoded MP3's and DVD's of various formats.

I hardly use the video switching abilities of the R-963. Most of my video is now DVI.

Final question: Does anyone know if the R-965 or P-965 will have discrete remote commands?

Thanks,

Andy

[Will]

Originally posted by dsmith901 on 11/24
I just got off the phone with a Sherwood rep (not Jeff) and he said they have a shipment on the sea right now and they should be at the dealers in about a week, so maybe the 12/10 date is a good one.
Any Sherwood Newcastle P-965 sightings?

[Stereojeff]

Will:

Per the message I posted on this forum last week, production for the P-965 and the other members of the Advanced Room 2 brigade is now scheduled for December 29. Barring any unforseen additional delays, we will have these units to our dealers in mid January.

Jeff

[Will]

Thanks for posting the updated production date. Looks like it's going to just miss the holiday buying season.

[dsmith901]

I saw a full-page ad for the new Newcastle pre/pro in one of the current AV mags, forget which one, maybe the SGHT(?). I guess that portends well.

Dsmith

[Stereojeff]

The ad in SGHT actually features our R-965 flagship receiver. However the receiver is based on the P-965 pre-pro. Both should do well when they finally reach the market.

Jeff

[Rich Stone]

Been lurking for a while, but I just had to register to say what a class act SN and Jeff are. I've had the AVP-9080R pre-pro from day one and the service/product quality has exceeded my wildest expectations. Also wanted to apologize to Jeff for being such a pain in the butt over the last few years. :) You have a life-long customer and I'm looking forward to the new pre-pro. Don't worry Jeff, I can't afford one yet as we just built a new house. ;)

Bottom line folks, if you're in the market for a pre-pro you owe it to yourself to give the new Sherwood Newcastle a spin. I have NO doubts that it will be worth the wait.

Regards,

Rich

[Rich Wenzel]

one problem on sherwood is that they are bit hard to find...in nyc, i dont know of a single place that carries newcastle stuff...im sure its well made stuff and probably a very good value, its just that access is limited...

Rich

[Rich Stone]

Very true.

I don't think there is dealer in the Reno area anymore. I used to drive to Grass Valley but given Sherwood's changes I'm not sure if they are still a dealer either.

Too bad, because these guys really know how to make good affordable gear with the customer service to back it up. Perhaps I'll be able to find an online dealer. Last time our local dealer told me I could return Sherwood's first pre/pro if I didn't like it - I was not looking forward to the 40 mile return trip. Four years later that AVP-9080R is still sitting in my rack!

If this new equipment is successful, perhaps they can widen the dealer distribution a little.

Rich

[dsmith901]

Originally posted by Stereojeff
The ad in SGHT actually features our R-965 flagship receiver. However the receiver is based on the P-965 pre-pro. Both should do well when they finally reach the market.

Jeff

Jeff, thanks, I did not read it the ad that closely, I was browsing on my lunch break. But I wanted to congratulate you on being the only AV manufacturer I know of with enough sense to do what you did and essentially offer the AV pre/pro with our without amps, and letting those who already own amps take the savings. Thanks mucho.

Dsmith

[Bondmanp]

This is mostly for Jeff. First, some questions. I am looking to buy my first pre/pro with my next bonus, sometime this Spring. Thw pre/pro I buy will be determined by the size of the bonus. No offense, but if I can afford it, I have my heart set on the Anthem AVM-20 - I've heard it several times, and I am thrilled with the sound and the featureset. However, if my bonus falls short, the Newcastle could become a serious contender, especially since it includes DPLIIx. I like the featureset described on the PDF at the web site, and I've seen a few satisfied owners of previous models on line. I am curious about the above post - is the new pre/pro no more than the top Newcastle receiver minus the amplifiers? I suppose that might not be a bad thing, but the reason I am upgrading to separates is to make an improvement in both surround and straight 2-channel listening. The Newcastle PDF is pretty light on info - what design or component steps have you taken to provide high quality sonics in the new pre/pro?

A few suggestions: The web site appears to not have been updated in a year or two. How about an update? How about a rear-panel photo of the new line? How about an online dealer locater? Like the earlier post above, I've found only one central or northern NJ dealer - Samman's, who does not have a good return policy, probably does not have a great demo room, and I doubt will let me borrow one for an in-home demo. If you can't increase your dealer network, what about authorizing one or two high-end online merchants? Somebody like Audio Advisors, for example. I refuse to drop this kind of $ on a component that I can't audition in-home or return if I am unhappy.

[Stereojeff]

Bondmanp:

Good questions!

Whether our P-965 is no more than the R-965 receiver with the amps removed or whether the R-965 is simply the P-965 with added amplification depends entirely on where one stands to frame the view. I prefer the latter stance. But there is no question that the pre-pro and flagship receiver share main PCB's, layout and parts.

They also spring from the same design philosophy: Use the best parts; Get the basics right: Make them easy to use. Examples abound: Burr Brown 192 kHz/24-bit DAC's; AKM 24-bit 96 kHz A to D convertor; Analog Devices sample rate converter's; etc.

On the basis of performance they are top notch. Few are aware that our R-963 receiver is, arguably, the quietest Sound and Vision has ever tested. (The Yamaha RX-Z1 had a better number but it was tested under different conditions.) You can see their results here: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow/3401/ratevsac.htm

When John Kotches tested the R-963 receiver for The Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity web site, he told me privately (and later confirmed on the Home Theater Forum) that the R-963, when used solely as a tuner/preamp/processor, outperformed his then reference pre-pro. I'll let John divulge the make and model of his reference, but I will say it sold for at least $1000 more than the SRP of our receiver.

We will have a complete update of the website before the CE Show begins on January 8, 2004. It will have the technical details, rear panel photos and dealer locater you are seeking.

I have never compared our products to those from Anthem and can't provide a valid product comparison. However, I do not believe you can find a another pre-pro that decodes all of today's formats including DPL IIx, Dolby Headphone, Dolby Virtual Speaker and DTS-96/24, is field upgradeable via RS-232 or USB, has universal video upconversion, purist modes for both analog and digital signals, bass management on the 7.1 direct input, etc. at any price.

Jeff

P. S. If you'd like to receive a photo of the rear panel, please drop me a line at: jeff@sherwoodamerica.com

[Will]

Hi Jeff,

Could you detail the 7.1 bass management (with/without analog/digital conversion) and the universal video upconversion?

Best,

Will

[Stereojeff]

Will:

Bass management for the 7.1 analog input follows the same basic path as bass management for any digital source. Options include 20 to 120 Hz in 20 Hz increments. Slopes and cutoff frequencies are universal. Signals originating in the analog domain must first be digitized. We use AKM 24 bit 96 kHz A to D's. The signal will remain in the analog domain if the user specifies large speakers at all locations and has a subwoofer.

For the Universal Video function, composite video signals generate composite, S-Video and Component Video output. Similarly, S-Video signals are available as S-Video and component video output.

What I may not have mentioned is that the P-965 has 3 component video inputs with one output. Switching is performed by relays to avoid imposing any bandwidth limitations. And, of course, the OSD is finally available from the component video output.

Jeff

[dsmith901]

Jeff,

Any early reviews that we can look for? Thanks.

Dsmith

[Will]

Thanks for the clarification earlier today.

Originally posted by StereoJeff on 03-02-03
Nick:

In my opinion, converting analog to digital to perform bass management would be what we used to call "a contradiction in terms." Don't look for that kind of backward thinking in the P-965.

Jeff

[mustang5o]

I considered purchasing the old pre/pro as well. I am still in the receiver world and I may end up staying that way for a while. I plan to take my time in choosing either a new receiver or pre/pro.

Are there any plans for firewire connection so we don't need the analog outs for DVDA/SACD to be put back in digital then back in analog to get some bass management?
How about DVI/HDMI connection?
Will it be able to set different crossover points for like front L/R, center and surrounds (like the newer HK stuff)?
What is the MSRP of the new pre/pro?
How about of the new receiver?

I also have not been able to find a local dealer but if the price is right with the features I might be willing to drive a few hours.

[Stereojeff]

Will:

Your skewer is both noted and accepted. Sometimes the factory gives you exactly what you want and then other times.....

Dsmith:

Review samples will be arriving next week but placement will probably not be confirmed until the CE Show in early January.

Mustang50:

There are a lot of dealers sitting on the sidelines waiting for these units to finally become available. I'm hopeful that the dealer network will grow dramatically in Q1 of 2004.

The P-965 will have neither Firewire nor HDMI.

I will discuss the bass crossover possibilities with our engineering team during our product meetings following CES. I'll let you know after those meetings about the possible changes to the crossover topology.

The SRP for the Pre-pro is $1499.95. The R-965 is $1999.95 while the R-865 is $1499.95.

Jeff

[Will]

Jeff,

I really appreciate you giving everyone here the best information you can, over the years. I know it's got to be challenging to predict in advance what the factory will make and when.

Thanks again for hanging in there!

Will

[catapult]

Jeff, I'm looking for a Dolby Headphone processor to use with the 5.1 analog outputs of a hi-rez universal player. Can the new prepro and/or the new receiver:

1: Digitize a 5.1 signal and play it through Dolby Headphone?
2: Digitize a 2.0 signal, apply DPL2 Music, and play it through DH?

[Stereojeff]

Catapult:

I've forwarded your questions to the factory for their response. I'll post it here upon receipt.

Jeff

[Enigma]

Jeff,

In the picture in the PDF file it looks like the new pre/pro is some kind of champagne color, or at least not black. Is there going to be a choice of colors, or does it only come in the one shown? Sorry if this has already been asked.

Thanks,

enigma

[Jim Noyd]

Originally posted by Enigma
Jeff,

In the picture in the PDF file it looks like the new pre/pro is some kind of champagne color, or at least not black. Is there going to be a choice of colors, or does it only come in the one shown? Sorry if this has already been asked.

Thanks,

enigma I saw them at CEDIA and they were a beautiful titanium silver color.

[Johnla]

Originally posted by Jim Noyd
I saw them at CEDIA and they were a beautiful titanium silver color.

Yeah well that don't help the people that like black components.

[Stereojeff]

Catapult:

You asked:

"Can the new prepro and/or the new receiver:

1: Digitize a 5.1 signal and play it through Dolby Headphone?
2: Digitize a 2.0 signal, apply DPL2 Music, and play it through DH?"

For our new P-965 tuner/preamp/processor and the R-965 and R-865 receivers, the answer is "YES" to both.

Jeff

[Alimental]

Originally posted by Johnla
Yeah well that don't help the people that like black components.

Newcastle product in black looks pretty generic. The titanium stuff actually blends well with black gear, but stands out in a very nice and classy sort of way. I can't imagine anyone wanting the black stuff after seeing the titanium stuff.

[Rmassey]

Oh please don't tell me they are following the Sony Model and offering it only in Silver? This is just the worst thing any manufacturer can do. I will immediately look elsewhere for a BLACK pre/pro.

Joel, just becuase you like it and cannot imagine others wanting all black gear, doesn't mean others think the same.

[Rich Stone]

I personnally like the titanium color, it's quite nice looking even in my rack of black equipment. I DO agree it would be better to have a choice of black.

Regardless, no matter how strongly I felt about a components color, it surely wouldn't make me look elsewhere. Trust me there ARE worse things a manufacturer can do. What really matters to me is performance and my my experience with Newcastle products is that they deliver!

To each their own....


Rich

[dsmith901]

Originally posted by Rmassey
Oh please don't tell me they are following the Sony Model and offering it only in Silver? This is just the worst thing any manufacturer can do. I will immediately look elsewhere for a BLACK pre/pro.

Joel, just becuase you like it and cannot imagine others wanting all black gear, doesn't mean others think the same.

You will love Denon and Onkyo. I don't think they make anything but black models. But by all means avoid Krell, ugh!

Dsmith

[Enigma]

I would prefer black, but this wouldn't be a deal breaker for me. I am currently in a dilemma, waiting for firewire interface for DVD-A/SACD and HDMI; however at the price of this pre/pro it will be something I would consider to get some of the features it has. I am curious as to some of its specific features; the PDF on the website is informative, but I will look fwd to seeing a view of the back panel, for one. It does appear that it has a phono input, a tuner, and a 3 in/1 out component vid switching; but I can't find out how many and which type of digital inputs are available, for example.

enigma

[Stereojeff]

On the rear panel, the P-965 has 4 optical and 2 coaxial digital inputs plus one more optical on the front panel.

I just got a proof from the printer of the latest 20 page Newcastle brochure. If anyone would like to get this in PDF form, drop me a line at: jeff@sherwoodamerica.com

Jeff Hipps

[Johnla]

Originally posted by Alimental
I can't imagine anyone wanting the black stuff after seeing the titanium stuff.

I could imagine it being better looking in black, and wanting it in black. As will possibly many other people as well.

Originally posted by Alimental
The titanium stuff actually blends well with black gear, but stands out in a very nice and classy sort of way.

And that is the last thing I'd want, for one piece of many to stand out over all the others. And THAT is why MANY people want every thing of one color. No matter if it is black, silver, titanium, champagne or puke yellow. You start mixing them up, and it definitely does not look right.
And why is that? Well because it, the rogue color, "stands out" like a sore thumb from all the rest.

[Enigma]

Johnla,

I agree, we should at least be given a choice, esp w/ so many components over the last 5 yr or so being black. This isn't just a criticism of Sherwood, however, but the industry in general (Anthem and B&K I believe have offered a choice of color on their components, but they are the exceptions). In any case, I am still curious about this particular component (the pre/pro), just based on price, feature set, and reputation.

Jeff,

I sent you an email requesting the new PDF. I am very curious to see if perhaps this is the piece I've been waiting for the fill the gap between my existing pre/pro (which is starting to seem short on a few features) and the coming group of hdmi-capable components. I'm starting to get the feeling that I won't be able to wait till all that gets sorted out (HDMI, Firewire, etc).

enigma

[Johnla]

Denon has also just started offering some of their receivers in both black and silver. And I think this may end up being a trend that other brands may follow. As there are a LOT of people that would buy a certain brand or product if they had a choice of color, but do not end up buying a certain product because they have no choice.

[egcarter]

Onkyo also just started offering a couple of their components in silver as well as black.

Eric

[dsmith901]

I notice that most of the best high end gear these days seems to be silver. For example Plinius, Pass Labs, Boulder, Edge, Bel Canto, Lexicon, and Krell. Personally I tend to associate black with low to mid-fi gear, though I realize some great high end stuff is still black, including Cary, Electrocompaniet, McIntosh, and Meridian. Cary now offers most of their models in silver BTW. Some stuff just looks better in silver, for example Theta Casablanca and Anthem.

Dsmith

[Rmassey]

Originally posted by dsmith901
Some stuff just looks better in silver, for example Theta Casablanca and Anthem.
Dsmith

you state this as if it was a fact, and it's not. It's is YOUR opinion, which is fine, but just say so. To MANY, your statement is just not true, as so many of us perfer black.

To me I equate the silver finish to cheap components, like Sony. As much as I like the Anthem product, no way would I take it in silver, black or nothing. It's nice that Anthem and B&K offer consumes a choice, rather than try to force their styling down our throat. I have one silver component (DirecTivo - HDVR2) in my rack and everyday I hate the look of it. For a DirecTivo, I had no choice, hughes is the ONLY manf. For a preamp I do have a choice and will select an all balck one. I have threatened to take the DirecTivo out back and have at it with a can of black spray paint. Only thing stopping me is the warranty (5 yr ESP at CC, which I have already used thanks to a lightning strike).

It's all about choice and weather a manf. respects their customers enough to offer it.

[Stereojeff]

I wish it were only about customer respect. However, some of the decisions must be made on a business basis.

We currently offer two receivers and a DVD player in both black and titanium. Titanium outsells black 4 to 1. With minimum order requirements that apply to each color, it is entirely possible that a minimum order for black could take 18 months to move.

However, the bottom line is that we will revisit the color question after CES and I'll let you know our decision the week of Jan. 15.

Jeff

[Will]

Titanium outsells black 4 to 1.

Eighty percent of the customers is a huge majority.

[Sven_DP]

Jeff, thx for the pdf. Just one other question : Is the tuner section RDS or not? For a 2004 model it should be in my opinion...

The upgradability sounds very nice, but has there ever been a software upgrade for Sherwood-Newcastle equipment in the past or should I consider this feature as 'marketing talk'? Merry Xmas to all. Sven

[catapult]

Originally posted by Stereojeff
Catapult:

You asked:

"Can the new prepro and/or the new receiver:

1: Digitize a 5.1 signal and play it through Dolby Headphone?
2: Digitize a 2.0 signal, apply DPL2 Music, and play it through DH?"

For our new P-965 tuner/preamp/processor and the R-965 and R-865 receivers, the answer is "YES" to both.

Jeff Outstanding! Thanks, Jeff. I can see this being the centerpiece of Catapult's New Silent Insomniac Theater. :D

[rto]

Anyone else out there remember when the ONLY choice was silver? My preference then was for the beautiful heavy guage brushed aluminum
Marantz gear. Then everyone started making their stuff black and that made everyone's life more difficult in terms of system continuity. Adcom
had a WHITE option for a while (not long). I too now prefer the option of black because it disappears behind the black doors of my Salamander
A/V rack, but the black equipment really shows your greasy fingerprints
more than silver does. Yeah I'm a little O.C.

[Stereojeff]

Sven:

In Europe these models will incorporate RDS.

As to the upgradeability, we have never before offered an upgrade option in a receiver. We have made field upgrades to both DVD players and to DVD receivers. Since this upgrade is designed to be implemented directly by the end user, it has none of the shipping/implementation costs that usually hamper audio companies who have tried this in the past. Therefore, I believe the factory is serious about this and that we will offer future upgrades as new technologies become available.

Jeff

[Sven_DP]

Thx Jeff. I will contact Sherwood Germany after the holidays.

[dsmith901]

Originally posted by Rmassey
you state this as if it was a fact, and it's not. It's is YOUR opinion, which is fine, but just say so. To MANY, your statement is just not true, as so many of us perfer black.

To me I equate the silver finish to cheap components, like Sony. As much as I like the Anthem product, no way would I take it in silver, black or nothing. It's nice that Anthem and B&K offer consumes a choice, rather than try to force their styling down our throat. I have one silver component (DirecTivo - HDVR2) in my rack and everyday I hate the look of it. For a DirecTivo, I had no choice, hughes is the ONLY manf. For a preamp I do have a choice and will select an all balck one. I have threatened to take the DirecTivo out back and have at it with a can of black spray paint. Only thing stopping me is the warranty (5 yr ESP at CC, which I have already used thanks to a lightning strike).

It's all about choice and weather a manf. respects their customers enough to offer it.

It should go without saying that anything posted in a forum is a personal opinion unless one specifically claims to be stating a scientific, legal or historical fact, which I clearly do not. Sorry if you felt offended by my personal opinion.

I also think there is a distinction to be made between the cheap silver finish you see on a Sony product and the expensive thick aluminum faceplates you see on a high end product, such as Plinius, Bryston, Lexicon or Edge Audio. My Innersound ESL amp has such a thick silver faceplate and it is truly beautiful. No one would ever mistake it for a mass market piece of equipment, that's for sure.

Dsmith

[Vinylvision]

Jeff, will the R-965 and P-965 have a audio delay feature to correct any lip sync problems that originate in other connected components?

[Stereojeff]

These products do not support global delay.

Jeff

[Will]

Originally posted by Stereojeff on 09/22/03
I've asked the factory for the steady state and dynamic numbers of 8, 4 and 2 ohms. I'll post them to this thread as soon as I have them.

Jeff

Hi Jeff,

Were you able to get any answers on the A-965 amplifier from the factory?

Will



Our specs for the A-965 are full FTC legal (with preconditioning, etc.), for all 7 seven channels driven at any combination of frequencies between 20 Hz and 20 kHz with no more than 0.02% THD. Under these stringent conditions, the Newcastle A-965 amp is rated at 150 Watts RMS x 7 into 4 ohms and 120 watts x 7 into 8 ohms. These numbers imply a 2000 watt power supply.

[Stereojeff]

Will:

I did receive some Dynamic power numbers from the factory. But they are for the R-965 receiver and not for the amp. Since the amp has 350% greater heat sink area and 2 toroidal transformers (as opposed to one in the receiver) it should certainly have even greater headroom.

On the IHF standard dynamic power test with 2 channels driven, the Sherwood Newcastle R-965 receiver will deliver 150 watts RMS into 8 ohms, 250 watts RMS into 4 ohms and 360 watts RMS into 2 ohms.

Jeff Hipps

[M Code]

Originally posted by Stereojeff
Will:

I did receive some Dynamic power numbers from the factory. But they are for the R-965 receiver and not for the amp. Since the amp has 350% greater heat sink area and 2 toroidal transformers (as opposed to one in the receiver) it should certainly have even greater headroom.

On the IHF standard dynamic power test with 2 channels driven, the Sherwood Newcastle R-965 receiver will deliver 150 watts RMS into 8 ohms, 250 watts RMS into 4 ohms and 360 watts RMS into 2 ohms.

Jeff Hipps

JEFF..
Product looks great..
How did the factory measure the Dynamic specs under 490A?
Or something else..

[Stereojeff]

M Code:

* Non Clipped Stereo Output [1kHz / 0.02sec peak]

Jeff

[dsmith901]

Originally posted by Stereojeff
M Code:

* Non Clipped Stereo Output [1kHz / 0.02sec peak]

Jeff

I know RMS means Root Mean Square, but I thought it was also for continuous output, not peak (dynamic). I have never heard of a receiver that was stable into 2 ohms. Are you using the FTC standard for 2 channel (RMS continuous 20-20KHz @ 8 Ohms <.1% THD)? Short term peak dynamic power ratings are not of much value and not what I want to see in amp ratings.

Dsmith

[catapult]

Short term peak dynamic power ratings are not of much value and not what I want to see in amp ratings. I want to see both. While 'continuous power all channels driven' is of passing interest, I don't play loud continuous tones through all my speakers at the same time. Music and especially HT has dynamic peaks that can easily be 20-30 dB above the 'continuous' level. Thats 100-1000 times the power required for brief periods. That's why dynamic power (headroom) is probably more important than continuous power when you're trying to reproduce a kick drum or a gunshot. Most of us probably only average a watt or two continuous but we need much more that that to keep from clipping the loud transients.

[Stereojeff]

Our position is that both continuous and dynamic ratings are important.

Here are the numbers for the A-965 power amp:

* Stereo Output [1kHz / 0.02sec peak(Non clip)]

1.A-965 (Power AMP)

1)8 ohms : 165W*2

2)4 ohms : 300W*2

3)2 ohms : 480W*2

Jeff

[dsmith901]

The problem with peak dynamic output is there is no standard for comparison. The shorter the duration of the peak the higher the rating you can claim. It seems to me that continuous power output and ability to almost double power into a halved impedance says more about the amp's real capability than a power burst rating. Also, limiting the input to 1 Khz also can be misleading unless you just listen to test tones at that frequency. What happens to output linearity and THD at 10-20 Khz?

Dsmith

[Stereojeff]

I believe there are two reasons for dynamic power testing.

1. To estimate short term power reserves.

Amps with the same RMS rating may not have the same "loudness" capability. The Dynamic power rating does provide useful information about the power reserves available for peaks.


2. To estimate current capability.

Amps which continue to increase their dynamic output as the impedance drops are typically able to deliver high current when the program material calls for it.

I do not believe that the dynamic power output measurements are a replacement for the steady state output. However, I do believe that such measurements provide additional useful information to help one evaluate the amplifier's output envelope.

Jeff

[Bondmanp]

Kudos on the web site redesign. However, I would still like to see complete specs, including dimensions and weight. Also, it would be nice to be able to click the front and rear images for a larger image. And it would be neat to see a "top-off" photo of the inside of the P-965. Can't wait to see the dealer pages come on line!

The feature-set is very impressive, and this pre-pro is a hot contender. It looks like it is down to the P-965 or the Rotel RSP-1068. Feature-wise, there is no contest; the P-965 wins hands-down. Sonics, especially 2-channel analog, will be the ultimate deciding factor for me. BTW, if you are keeping count, I would have preferred a black face-plate option, but the silver looks nice and is not a deal-breaker for me.

Some questions:

What type of power supply preamp components does the P-965 use?

Can the sub-woofer output remain active in the analog bypass mode?

What is "Pure Digital" mode?

What are the sub x-over frequency choices?

What are the "12 DSP modes"?

Is the bass managment for the 7.1 channel input done in the analog or digital domain?

Are the bass/treble adjustments made in the digital or analog domain?

Are the channel level memories global or individual per mode and/or input?

Are any professional reviews in the works of the P-965 or the R-965?

Thanks in advance!

[dsmith901]

Jeff, I think you should add toll-free phone numbers for customer support/registration, etc.

Dsmith

[Stereojeff]

We've had a toll free consumer number for 20 years!

800 962-3203. Technical support is ext. 115. I'm at ext. 103.

Jeff

[dsmith901]

Originally posted by Stereojeff
We've had a toll free consumer number for 20 years!

800 962-3203. Technical support is ext. 115. I'm at ext. 103.

Jeff

Jeff, thanks, good to know. But why not list it on your website? If it is there I can't find it.

Dsmith

[garyroboff]

The Sherwood distributor in France, FVS, (FVS.FR) has larger rear panel photos for most, but not all, of the new models available on its web site.

[Sven_DP]

Originally posted by garyroboff
The Sherwood distributor in France, FVS, (FVS.FR) has larger rear panel photos for most, but not all, of the new models available on its web site.

Jeff, do you reckon they have to go through Sherwood Germany?
thx. Sven

[water1]

Jeff,
Are the two subwoofer outputs configurable separately so I can configure one for my subwoofer and one for my Buttkicker?
My credit card is cocked and ready to pull trigger.

[Will]

Hi Jeff,

When will people start seeing the P-965 in local dealers' showrooms?

Originally posted by Stereojeff on 12-09
production for the P-965 and the other members of the Advanced Room 2 brigade is now scheduled for December 29. Barring any unforseen additional delays, we will have these units to our dealers in mid January.

[Stereojeff]

Will:

We met with the factory guys yesterday. Their latest word--expect to see the pre-pro in mid February (2004).

Jeff

[water1]

Jeff,
Is there an update on availability of the R-965?
Do you have an answer for my subwoofer question on previous page?

[snipeman]

I'm interested in the R-965 too.

Andy

[Stereojeff]

The R-965 production is scheduled to directly follow the P-965. I'll answer the other questions shortly.

Jeff

[Stereojeff]

Water1:

The subwoofer outputs are not independently configurable.

Jeff

[water1]

Separately configurable outputs would be a nice feature to add. Is there a difference in using the separate outputs as opposed to using a Y connector to feed a sub and Buttkicker amp.

[Will]

Rotel recently announced a low priced pre/pro with (rumor has it) DPL IIx. Wonder if the Rotel pre/pro or the Sherwood pre/pro/tuner with DPL IIx will come to market first.

A couple of years ago, Outlaw announced a low priced pre/pro/tuner with DPL II, the 950. It was going to be the first pre/pro/tuner with DPL II. Unfortunately it was delayed. And then it was delayed some more. Eventually Rotel announced an inexpensive pre/pro with DPL II. The Rotel pre/pro came to market first, but just barely.

[Stereojeff]

Will:

I don't know what the timetable is on the other pre/pro you mentioned and you certainly have reason to doubt our schedule, but the P-965 will be here in February.

Jeff

P. S. For clarification, that's February, 2004

[Dan Driscoll]

Hello Jeff,

I was just looking at the re-built website and noticed the digital input complement for the 965 units. It said 5 optical and 2 coaxial, but I am most sincerely hoping that is a typo and it really is 5 coaxial and 2 optical. In my experince, optical cable and connectors are far less robust than coax and I will not use optical for connections unless there is not other option.

Even more important to me, most of my digital sources have digital coax outputs and the 965 unit don't have enough inputs to accomdate them.

EDIT: I just noticed that there is only one digital output and it is optical. First, I am suprised that there would only be a single digital output. Second, and far more important, an optical output is completely useless to me.

This is a very serious issue for me and I suspect a lot of other people. It very well could be a deal breaker, unless the info on the website is incorrect. :(

[dsmith901]

I agree with Dan. Coax should be double the number of optical. In fact they could do away with optical connectors on all equipment as far as I am concerned.

Dsmith

[Enigma]

While I like coax better myself; I think their is good reason optical connections are out-numbering coax here, and with many other products (btw, there are actually only 4 opt inputs on the back; the 5th is on the front, behind the door. The reasons I see are the following:

1- Many people today use their DVD player as a CD player. I use a Sony SACD player as my CD player, but its hooked up with analogue connections (the only way it can be done and get SACD to the pre/pro in the absence of digital 1394 connection, which the Sherwood doesn't have). In any case that leaves one coax needed for a great number of people between DVD, CD, SACD, and DVD-A.
2- Many HDTV satellite boxes provide only a digtial out. There are some exceptions, but one high profile example is the new HD TiVo, coming in March, which has only an optical out and no coax. Therefore, you have no choice (I am in this position with my Dish 6000, as are many with other D* boxes).
3- All the game consoles with which I am familiar provide only optical out, as far as I know (Sony PS2, and X-box w/ HD Adaptor). The Nintendo Gamecube doesn't provide any digital out.
4- What other device could you connect besides DVD, CD, and Sat Box; if you have that many (Assuming you have sep players, want to connect both, and have the rare sat box with a connection? Just curious.

I would like to see 1394 and HDMI connections, but those are just starting to come out. I would expect them to be commonly available next year.

engima

[vinodk]

I guess I will be holding onto my B&K Ref31 a little longer. IMO even after all these years B&K is a very versatile prepro & can still go head to head with some of the newer prepros.

[water1]

Jeff,
Any higher resolution pictures of rear panels available yet?

[Alimental]

While I agree that coax is better for audio, here's the problem:

Satellites? Optical
Video games? Optical
Computers? mostly Optical
MiniDisc? mostly Optical

Therefore, a minimum of 2 or 3 opticals in necessary to make a product sellable and useful. CD players usually have coax, DVD players usually have coax, but after that? I had to look very hard to find a computer audio card that had coax. The key is in convincing satellite, computer and video game manufacturers to use coax which isn't likely to happen.

[Stereojeff]

Water1:

I'll forward some high rez rear panel photos to the webmaster.

Jeff

[water1]

Originally posted by Stereojeff
Water1:

I'll forward some high rez rear panel photos to the webmaster.

Jeff


Thanks, I need some pictures to look at while I'm waiting.

[Dan Driscoll]

Originally posted by Alimental

Satellites? Optical
Video games? Optical
Computers? mostly Optical
MiniDisc? mostly Optical


Here's my problem:

HD-OTA receiver - coax
CD player - coax
DVD player - coax

[Dan Driscoll]

Hi Jeff,

Any updates?I still have my fingers crossed, hoping that the website is wrong about the number of digital coax vs. optical inputs.

[Bondmanp]

Check Parts Express. They sell digital optical to coax converter boxes for under $20. Problem solved.

I'm still hoping Jeff will answer my questions (above).

Also, what are the bass management options? Is there a subwoofer option with 2-channel direct?

Still waiting for the dealer link to come on line!

[GMCOC]

Hello Jeff:

On the Newcastle Receiver comparison chart, it lists "Independent Room
2 Coaxial Digital Output" for the R-965 receiver. What does this port do?

[Stereojeff]

Bondmanp:

There is no error. The P-965 has 4 rear panel optical digital inputs and a 5th on the fron panel. It also has 2 rear panel coaxial digital inputs.

But, frankly, I don't understand the problem since there are a number of inexpensive convertors on the market that will change optical to coaxial or coaxial to optical. To see at least some of the choices, try: www.audioauthority.com.

GMCOC:

Until now, Room 2 audio feeds have almost universally been for the analog input, only. Many of our customers found this extremely inconvenient. So the P-965 pre/pro and R-965 receiver can take the digital input from any source selected for room 2 and send it to the second zone. We don't transcode the digital input, what comes in goes out. So if the input is DD, the output will be DD. Ditto if its DTS or PCM.

Jeff

[Alimental]

Originally posted by Dan Driscoll
Here's my problem:

HD-OTA receiver - coax
CD player - coax
DVD player - coax

In that case, NAD's comparably priced unit (which I have) has 4 coax and 2 toslink. It omits a few extras that the Sherwood has, but is a very nice piece.

[vinodk]

Almost all the digital converters I have seen in the market are PCM audio only. Are there any optical to coaxial converters that can pass bitstream also. THANKS.

[Will]

NAD's comparably priced unit has 4 coax and 2 toslink. It omits a few extras that the Sherwood has, but is a very nice piece.

One of the extras the Sherwood has that the NAD doesn't (yet) is DPL IIx. The Sherwood and the Rotel (neither of which are yet out) should be the first inexpensive pre/pro's on the market, with DPL IIx.

[Dan Driscoll]

Originally posted by Will
One of the extras the Sherwood has that the NAD doesn't (yet) is DPL IIx. The Sherwood and the Rotel (neither of which are yet out) should be the first inexpensive pre/pro's on the market, with DPL IIx.

FWIW, I only have room for a 5.1 speaker system, so DPL-IIx and 7.1 dont matter that much. The NAD receivers and pre-pro have been on my radar for quite a while, along with the Newcastle. I'm also looking at the updated Audio Refinement Pre-2DSP, a 5.1 processor with a reputation for being very musical.

[catapult]

I think most of the "brain-dead" coax-toslink converters will work with PCM, DD and DTS. The PCM-only ones usually do some extra processing such as upsampling or jitter reduction.

[garyroboff]

The 2004 Sherwood catalog, which can be downloaded from the parent Etronics web site, suggests that the new Pre/Pro may be produced in Black, Titanium or Gold depending upon the geography for which the unit is destined. It may be, therefore, that Black units will be sold outside the US, and local distributors should be able to say what they plan to import to their own areas.

[Bondmanp]

OK - after reviewing the manual at the etronics site (I know this refers to the UK version), I have just a few questions for Jeff or anyone who knows:

1) If your mains are set to "small", what happens to bass frequencies in Analog Direct mode? Is an unfiltered signal sent to the Subwoofer outputs, or do the mains run full range? Does the "SW" setting have anything to do with this?

2) Is the Bass Management for the multi-channel inputs done in the digital or analog domain?

3) Is the power supply in the P-965 identical to the power supply in the R-965? (The thought of all that excess capacity - an amplifier power supply for a pre/pro - gives me goose-bumps!)

Some observations:

I can hardly wait for the dealer list to come on line.

I don't know for sure, but based on the manual for the P-965, the rear-panel layout, and the operating parameters, I bet etronics is the supplier for Pioneer and perhaps JVC receivers.

Even though I would have preferred black, the silver face is stunning.

I have used an MX-500 remote for several years, and it's the best, IMHO. Excellent choice, Sherwood!

Feature-wise, the P-965 kicks major butt for the money. I hope, however, it will *sound* better than the Elite receiver (VSX-24TX) I currently use as a pre/pro. It's not terrible, but it really comes up short on soundstage dimensionality, and its a little too bright-sounding. I have mains that are capable of a great soundstage presentation and smooth highs (Vandersteen 1C), but the Elite just plops everything down in a line across the front of the room. Imaging is pretty good, but I crave depth, width and hieght beyond the speakers themselves. I feel that, music-wise, the Pioneer is now the bottleneck in my rig. Of course I want all the impressive features of the P-965, but only if they come with better sound than my Pioneer (especially in 2-channel direct).

[M Code]

Originally posted by Bondmanp
I don't know for sure, but based on the manual for the P-965, the rear-panel layout, and the operating parameters, I bet etronics is the supplier for Pioneer and perhaps JVC receivers.


Pioneer builds their AVRs in Indonesia and Japan, JVC builds their AVRs in Singapore. The lower range of Denon AVRs is assembled by Etronics in China...

[dsmith901]

Originally posted by M Code
Pioneer builds their AVRs in Indonesia and Japan, JVC builds their AVRs in Singapore. The lower range of Denon AVRs is assembled by Etronics in China...

Are the Newcastle units made in China also?

Dsmith

[M Code]

Originally posted by dsmith901
Are the Newcastle units made in China also?

Dsmith

To my knowledge..
For the higher end Newcastle products, these are built in the Etronics factory in Korea. The factory in China is a joint venture and used primarily for the lower cost products but here Jeff needs to confirm.. :)

[dsmith901]

Originally posted by Stereojeff
Will:

I don't know what the timetable is on the other pre/pro you mentioned and you certainly have reason to doubt our schedule, but the P-965 will be here in February.

Jeff

P. S. For clarification, that's February, 2004

Okay Jeff, its February. Please tell me the P965 is here and where. Thanks.

Dsmith

[Alimental]

"February" NEVER means the beginning of February. Heck, it almost never means February at all!

[massi2u]

This seems to be Forum with the most info on the P-965.
I take it Jeff works for Sherwood?
Is there a "Waiting List" or some way I can purchase this processors as soon as it becomes available.
Any info from ya'll would be superb!
Thanks You,
mike massi

[Jim Noyd]

I saw a dealer list for Newcastle in the last Stereophile Guide to Home Theater.

[Stereojeff]

MCOde is correct. Virtually all of our Newcastle products are built in our factory in ChunAm South Korea. Our Sherwood Home Audio (standard) products are built in our joint venture plant in China.'

And Mr. Bernstein is correct. February means the end of February. (If we're lucky.)

Also, there is no subscription list for consumers. Our dealers have a number of the pre-pros on order. So far our initial allotment is sufficient to fill all the orders. I hope that changes.

StereoJeff

PS. Mike, I am in charge of marketing and product development for Sherwood America.

[Ossi]

well jeff, the Sherwood Newcastle Product story reminds me off the Outlaw story ;)

[Stereojeff]

Ossi:

I'm not sure how you arrived at the comparison between Sherwood Newcastle and Outlaw. In my mind we are virtual opposites.

While both companies strive to deliver high performance value priced products, all Newcastle products are designed by us and are manufactured in our own state-of-the-art facility. Outlaw has no production facilities. Therefore, all Outlaw products are sourced from third party manufacturers. While this can result in fine products (simply ask our roster of OEM customers), we believe the finest products are designed, manufactured and sold by the same company.

Jeff

[snipeman]

Jeff,

Any new ETA on the R-965?

Thanks,

Andy

[catapult]

Jeff, do you happen to know the max output voltage of the P965's heaphone jack? I'm wondering if it can drive the 300 ohm Sennheiser 580/600/650 without an external amp?

[catapult]

Bump. Jeff, headphone jack voltage?

[Alimental]

Originally posted by Stereojeff
Therefore, all Outlaw products are sourced from third party manufacturers. While this can result in fine products (simply ask our roster of OEM customers), we believe the finest products are designed, manufactured and sold by the same company.

Jeff

Jeff, while I think there's something to this, there's also something to the fact that Etronics seems to prioritize building OEM gear over Newcastle gear. If the 965 had come out 6 months to a year ago (well after it should have), it would be a much hotter piece. By the time Newcastle brings stuff out, it seems Etronics is building even cooler stuff for someone else. Sometimes, it's not WHAT you bring out, but WHEN. Newcastle could be a major player, but only when Etronics gives it the priority it deserves. I'm not sure how you can retain dealers given the huge gaps between sellable or current product. How long has it been since you built the AVP-9080? Most companies are updating product every 12-18 months. Newcastle is more like every 2-3 years, sometimes longer.

[snipeman]

Alimental,

I agree with the concept of what you just posted, but I would point out they did release the 963 in-between the 9080 and the not-yet-out 965 stuff.

So the gap is not quite as bad as you made it out to be.

But all in all, you are correct, I've seen this echoed many times before. Newcastle's specs are leading edge when they are announced, and fairly middle of the road by the time you can actually buy one.

I for one am still a follower though. I think they offer exceptional quality and value. They compare very well for my budget range when I do go to buy one. I've owned the 9080 amp/preamp combo, and the R-963 receiver and have been very hapy with both.

I also would like to commuicate the I feel a little bad for Jeff. It's awesome that he comes and posts here, and I hope he's not feeling ganged-up on.

He can't change a whole company, and probablly can't make Etronics produce anything faster for Newcastle. I'm sure he may agree with some criticisms posted here, and ovbiously can't respond either way.

In any event, the information and access he provieds is appreciated. It''s what makes AVSforums a great place.

Andy

[Stereojeff]

Interesting opinions.

It is true that we are fundamentally on OEM company. It is also true that our sporadic delivery of new models makes it difficult to keep our dealer network intact. But is is also true that we manufacture magnificent equipment.

As a point of information, when John Kotches reviewed our R-963 receiver it had a suggested retail price of $1999.95. Its SRP is now $1199.95. John told me (and later confirmed in print on a different forum) that when he used the R-963 solely as a pre-pro it outperformed his then reference B and K Ref 50. There are no pre-pro's on the market in the R-963's current price range with performance at that level.

When the P-965 finally arrives (it is now scheduled for the week of 2/23/04) it will be the best performing pre/pro at anywhere near its $1499.95 SRP. Will it be hard to find. Certainly. Will it be worth the hunt--indubitably.

Jeff

[snipeman]

Jeff,

I expect to buy the R-965 whenever it's available. I'm in no rush, my R-963 is performing fine, and I'll move it to a secondary location.

Andy

[Will]

It is also true that our sporadic delivery of new models makes it difficult to keep our dealer network intact. But it is also true that we manufacture magnificent equipment.

Hi Jeff,

Since you wrote in this thread a couple of weeks ago that you're in charge of marketing and product development for Sherwood America (congratulations, by the way!), have you considered copying the Outlaw approach and de-emphasize the dealer network, and sell online instead? Customers could then buy your equipment without trying to find a local dealer. And you could maybe charge even less for your pre/pro, maybe even as low as Outlaw charges for theirs.

Best,

Will

When the P-965 finally arrives (it is now scheduled for the week of 2/23/04) it will be the best performing pre/pro at anywhere near its $1499.95 SRP. Will it be hard to find. Certainly. Will it be worth the hunt--indubitably.

[dsmith901]

I agree with Will - selling direct is the wave of the future IMO. But key is customer support, which you usually find more of in on-line companies like SVS, Ascend Acoustics, Outlaw, RBH, Aperion, Axiom, and of course Outlaw, among others. This is because the customer goes straight to the company instead of through a middle man who often has little interest in helping the customer, except in the very high end audio salons. Newcastle would be a perfect fit in the on-line market, which relies heavily upon word -of-mouth support from satisifed customers.

[catapult]

Ditto in support of online sales. I doubt there's a dealer within a 3 hour drive of me so "dealer support" would be nonexistent.

[snipeman]

Frankly, I think most of the people who would buy this equiptment know more than most workers at these shops anyway.

I know there are special dealers that are the exception to the rule, but most of us can connect and support this equiptment ourselves.

Plus, that's what AVSForums are for, right?

Andy

[Bondmanp]

Well, unlike many states, there are about four authorized Sherwood-Newcastle dealers within an hour's drive of my New Jersey home. That's the good news. The bad news is that so far, only one plans on setting up the P-965 for demonstations, and he charges a hefty 15% restocking fee for open-box returns. One of the other dealers won't give any refunds, with or without a restocking fee, and one will only give credit towards purchase of a different item.

My problem is this: I expect I am going to love the P-965. However, I am no stranger to buyer's remorse, and I don't want to regret a four-figure purchase. I have an unusual home theater/listening room, with very low ceilings, support beams, open-areas, etc., and what sounds great in a showroom might not sound great in my home. Plus, I am a big believer in system synergy, and the one dealer offering a demo doesn't sell my amplifier or speaker brands.

That's why a good return policy is so important to me. I want to like this pre-pro, but I am a bit nervous about it all. Heck, I don't even mind a reasonable restocking fee, say 10%, and I will try to negotiate that as part of the deal, but I, too, agree that it would be marvelous if Sherwood sold direct, or perhaps through a good on line merchant like Audio Advisors (who has a great return policy). Some of the local dealers have already offered generous discounts off the MSRP. However, I would gladly pay full list for the P-965 if I could get the peace of mind that comes with a solid 30-day return policy with no restocking fee (even at $1500, the P-965 looks like a bargain).

What to do? Well, once the P-965 is shipped, I'll see which dealer wants my business the most. I'll report back here with the results.

[Will]

I have an unusual home theater/listening room, with very low ceilings, support beams, open-areas, etc., and what sounds great in a showroom might not sound great in my home.

That's why a good return policy is so important to me. I want to like this pre-pro, but I am a bit nervous about it all.

I would gladly pay full list for the P-965 if I could get the peace of mind that comes with a solid 30-day return policy with no restocking fee

I know what you mean. Getting a solid 30 day return policy on a pre/pro from a brick and morter store is rare. Some dealers may have demo units but you probably won't find many P-965s set aside for home demo, when they first come out. Outlaw on the other hand, has a 30 day return policy. They probably need to since that's one way they get customers to take a chance buying online, without local stores or showrooms. In case you haven't seen it, this url http://www.outlawaudio.com/guarantee.html describes Outlaw's 30 day policy. Yes it doesn't apply to their interconnect cables, but it does apply to their pre/pro.

Best,

Will

[Stereojeff]

Bondmanp:

I agree that in home trial can be crucial with components in this class. Let me know which dealer in your area you'd prefer to work with and I'll make sure that he has our full support for a home trial.

Jeff

[Bondmanp]

Jeff, you are AWESOME! If the P-965 is anywhere near as good as I am hoping it will be, I will be all over it like white on rice. With a company like Sherwood that obviously cares a great deal about customer satisfaction, it would be hard to go wrong. Do you have an email address I can use for you? I didn't see a "contact" option on the SherwoodUSA web site. Thanks again!

[bob md]

All,
Sorry if it's listed in this thread, but I couldn't find a list of authorized dealers. The sherrwood website says coming soon, a list of dealers. Is there another place to look?
Thanks,
Bob

[Bondmanp]

Either call Sherwood or see page 30 of January's Stereophile Guide to Home Theater Magazine for a list of authorized dealers.

[Stereojeff]

I can be reached at: jeff@sherwoodamerica.com or can be PM'd on this site.

Jeff

[patrickwebb]

I find it hard to believe that there are 2 dealers in the Indianapolis area, but none in the Chicago area.

[bob md]

Is it just me or have these last few days seemed like months? Can I wait another few days to see the unit? I need a fix and need it soon.

[dsmith901]

Originally posted by bob md
Is it just me or have these last few days seemed like months? Can I wait another few days to see the unit? I need a fix and need it soon.

These "last few days" have been months - literally. The P965 was originally supposed to debut in December. I just hope the delay means they get it right from the get-go.

Dsmith

[Stereojeff]

I am currently at our headquarters in Seoul and can confirm that the first shipments of the P-965 and R-965 will depart for the states by air next week. The R-865 will arrive by ocean freight around 3/15.

Jeff

[Will]

Jeff,

You better fly over lots and lots of Newcastle 965s! The other pre/pro that was supposed to have DPL IIx, from Rotel is now finally being sold. But - can you believe it? - without DPL IIx. Rumored to be a future upgrade. But PL IIx in the hand is better than a rumored upgrade. Fly in the new Newcastles quick! They should sell here in the USA, like gangbusters!

Best,

Will

[dsmith901]

Originally posted by Stereojeff
I am currently at our headquarters in Seoul and can confirm that the first shipments of the P-965 and R-965 will depart for the states by air next week. The R-865 will arrive by ocean freight around 3/15.

Jeff

This is very good news.

[vince2]

The P-965 sounds interesting, but I don't know about this company. If it takes them so long to actually bring a product to market, how long will it take them to address repair or future upgrade issues? Sounds like they operate on a shoestring to me, maybe I'm wrong.
Nonetheless, I passed on this unit. I couldn't even get them to answer my email regarding availability in my area (Portland, OR).

[Fireman]

vince2,
Jeff, If you e-mailed him recently is Unavailable:
Lance,
Thanks for your ongoing support. I'm at headquarters in Seoul this
week but will be back in the office on Wednesday. May I please respond to
you then?

Best regards,

Jeff Hipps

They make great equipment, If you can wait and then find it. These are the unfortunate problems with Sherwood Newcastle. I own a AVP-9080 and matching amp and they have been great products for the Money. It has been a great pre-pro and I can not wait to get a hold of the new P-965.
The technical help has always been great. I know of a couple of people that had minor problems and they were taken great care of. If you get one of there amps you will not be disappointed, I have the matching 5 Channel amp for the AVP-9080 and it is a MONSTER!
Lance

[dsmith901]

Originally posted by vince2
The P-965 sounds interesting, but I don't know about this company. If it takes them so long to actually bring a product to market, how long will it take them to address repair or future upgrade issues? Sounds like they operate on a shoestring to me, maybe I'm wrong.
Nonetheless, I passed on this unit. I couldn't even get them to answer my email regarding availability in my area (Portland, OR).

Sherwood has been around a lot longer and has far more resources than some of the other mid-priced pre/pro manufacturers, such as Outlaw, Sherbourn, Atlantic Technology, and Emotiva. And I suspect their capitalization far exceeds Theta, Bel Canto, Classe, and even EAD among the high end. I think you are selling them short in that respect. But I do wish they had a better marketing approach.

[M Code]

Originally posted by dsmith901
Sherwood has been around a lot longer and has far more resources than some of the other mid-priced pre/pro manufacturers, such as Outlaw, Sherbourn, Atlantic Technology, and Emotiva. And I suspect their capitalization far exceeds Theta, Bel Canto, Classe, and even EAD among the high end. I think you are selling them short in that respect. But I do wish they had a better marketing approach.

Sherwood does in fact have considerably more technical resources than the above mentioned brands. As they have a vertical product development group in Korea, as well as their own assembling sites in Korea and China. Since their primary financial income is derived from OE business, their major challenges could be summarized into marketing and financial. Do they invest in their own brands of Sherwood, Newcastle and Inkel or do they emphasize their production capability as to get better financial payback from their factories. Most likely it will be a blend of the two..

[water1]

Jeff,
Can the R-965 be field upgraded to decode WMA-Pro? If so, when?

[Stereojeff]

Water1:

Currenty WMA is not on the Cirrus/Crystal roadmap for the CS-49400 processor used in our '65 series Newcastle products (the P-965, R-965 and R-865) thus we cannot offer that decode capability on these models even as an upgrade.

Should Crystal/Cirrus change change their plans and enable WMA decoding on this processor we would, in turn, make it available to our owners.

Jeff

[Judy Y]

Okay, I give up. I keep checking the Sherwood website for the dealer locator to be operational. It never is. Is there an authroized internet dealer for Sherwood? If not, is there a Sherwood dealer in MD, DC, Virginia, West Virginia or Pennsylvania? (Can't tell I am desperate for one of these things, can you?) Any info would be appreciated!

By the way, IS IT HERE YET???!!! (<------------------ variation on my childhood rant of impatience; "are we THERE YET?")

[patrickwebb]

Sterling Sound is located in Wheeling, WV

I emailed Sherwood and got a dealer list from them. Funny, there are 2 dealers in the Indianapolis area, but none in the Chicago area.

[Stereojeff]

Judy Y and others;

I'm happy to email the current NC dealer list to anyone who wants it. Just let me know at: jeff@sherwoodamerica.com

Jeff

[Bondmanp]

Welcome back. I don't mean to bug you, but I am very anxiously awaiting the P-965, and I'd like to plan ahead for its arrival as much as possible. When you have a minute, could you kindly read the PM I sent you on Feb. 18th? Thanks in advance.

[dsmith901]

I found at least one on-line retailer listing the P-965 in stock. No prices shown. I wonder if he jumped the gun?

http://www.legacyaudiovideo.com/shneaude2.html

[Stereojeff]

DSmith901:

Yes, they jumped the gun. We will be bringing in the first bacth by air. Although their arrival is imminent, I do not yet have an airbill number.

Jeff

[catapult]

I'm happy to email the current NC dealer list to anyone who wants it. Just let me know Jeff, why don't you just post the whole US dealer list on the web page? No need for fancy search thingies or web coding, just list 'em all.

[srw1000]

Originally posted by vince2
The P-965 sounds interesting, but I don't know about this company. If it takes them so long to actually bring a product to market, how long will it take them to address repair or future upgrade issues? Sounds like they operate on a shoestring to me, maybe I'm wrong.

Vince,

I think your concerns are justified. As an owner of an AVP-9080, I was very disappointed in the treatment I received when I sent it in for repair.

First, I was told to send the processor to the address on their website. Unfortunately, they had moved to a new location so the carrier couldn't deliver it. I called the repair number and left a voice mail, asking for their new address. I never got a call back, which was an indication of things to come.

Once they did receive it, they had a hard time figuring out what the problems was. I had included a letter with all the testing and troubleshooting I had done, but I don't think it was ever read. When I asked to speak with the technician working on it, I was told that I couldn't because he didn't speak English.

It took numerous phone calls on my part to find out what the status was. Voice mails were never returned. After the promised return date passed, I called again, was told that it had been shipped back to me, and they'd call right back with a tracking number. Again, they never called back, so I had to call again. It turned out that it had never shipped, but would finally ship out later that week.

When I did get the unit back, it still wasn't repaired. Further calls to Newcastle were futile, and I gave up on the matter.

Maybe my case was the exception, but I was treated poorly enough that I don't think I'd invest in their products again - even as good as they look (and the P-965 sure looks great).

BTW, when the 9080 works, it sounds really nice and I'd consider it a good value. I just wish they had a better support team behind their products.

Scott

[vince2]

Scott. Thanks for the input. Kind of what I suspected based on other experiences. Sorry it didn't work well for you. What alternatives to the P-965 are people considering? I read somewhere Rotel is coming out with a new pre/pro with similar features.

[dsmith901]

A question for Jeff,

Does the P-965 have a universal audio synch-delay feature? Many digital displays, and especially plasmas, and also STBs, have a problem synching video with audio, and a delay in the audio processing seems to be the only cure. Has this been addressed in the P-965?

Dsmith

[paulbf1]

Jeff,

Any word on the availability of the R-903 receiver? Looking for a unit in the LA/OC area.

Paul

[Stereojeff]

Paul:

The R-903 TruDigital receivers are in stock and readily available. Try one of these dealers:

AUDIOVISION SPECIALIST BURBANK CA 877-AUDIO-50
Scheer Security Concord CA (925) 827-1535
MARCONI RADIO GLENDALE CA 818-240-1090
SING YOUNG MUSIC WORLD LOS ANGELES CA 323-256-4955
Clyde's Home Entertainment Store REDDING CA 530-222-0300
SING YOUNG MUSIC WORLD SAN GABRIEL CA 626-571-1766
SOUNDSCAPE SANTA ROSA CA 707-578-4434

Jeff

[Marmot]

Paulbf1,

The R903 is currently available. Any dealer in the LA/OC area can get it if they do not have it in stock... It's a pretty cool receiver too. All digital, looks great, sounds as good as other all-digital receivers that are triple the money!

[Stereojeff]

SRW1000:

I'm very sorry to hear of the problems you experienced with the service of your AVP-9080. I believe your experience is the unusual case. Most of our customers rave about our customer service. If you're willing to give us another try, please let me know at: jeff@sherwoodamerica.com so I can issue a call tag to pick up your AVP-9080.

Jeff

[Stereojeff]

DSmith901:

Sorry to report that the P-965 does not offer "all channel" delay to correct any lip synch problems caused by the delay in video processing on some TV's.

Jeff

[ARFF]

I am considering selling my current PrePro for the Newcastle but i have no idea when i might find one. Where are we at with this? How close and can i get a dealer in the South Fla area?

[Stereojeff]

The first production landed in LA this afternoon. We'll be shipping next week.

Here's the current dealer roster:

EXCLUSIVE AUDIO VIDEO DESIGN GILBERT AZ 480-797-0078
PARADISE HOME ENTERTAINMENT SCOTTSDALE AZ 480-315-8877
AUDIOVISION SPECIALIST BURBANK CA 877-AUDIO-50
Scheer Security Concord CA (925) 827-1535
MARCONI RADIO GLENDALE CA 818-240-1090
SING YOUNG MUSIC WORLD LOS ANGELES CA 323-256-4955
Clyde's Home Entertainment Store REDDING CA 530-222-0300
SING YOUNG MUSIC WORLD SAN GABRIEL CA 626-571-1766
SOUNDSCAPE SANTA ROSA CA 707-578-4434
Stereorama Clearwater FL 727-442-5201
Auditory Sensations Deltona FL 386-860-6056
AFM Systems Groveland FL 352-429-8060
Millennium Waves LONGWOOD FL 407-448-5812
THE SOUND SMITH ALPHARETTA GA 770-643-1832
ACKERMAN TECHNOLOGY GROUP ATLANTA GA 770-798-8300
AUDIO ALTERNATIVE LILBURN GA 770-931-0606
STUCKY BROTHERS FT. WAYNE IN 260-482-8402
GENERAL ALARM INDIANAPOLIS IN 317-925-8915
TONE STUDIO INDIANAPOLIS IN 317-297-1044
Summit Sales Burnsville MN 612-882-0522
AUDIO INNOVATIONS KANSAS CITY MO 816-728-0896
Breiding Electronics CHARLOTTE NC 704-358-9668
DAS AUDIO CORNELLIUS NC 704-895-0041
Atlantic Audio Visual Designs Wilmington NC 910-798-1911
Newtronics Wilmington NC 910-799-2249
Audio Video Excellence Raleigh NC 919-781-9906
Fidelis Salem NH 603-894-4477
LEGACY AUDIO & VIDEO OAKRIDGE NJ 973-697-6600
HI END CORNER ROCHELLE PARK NJ 201-845-9005
DESIGN TECH UNION NJ 973-802-1088
SAMMAN'S ELECTRONICS WAYNE NJ 973-696-8855
THE SOUND ROOM PLATTSBURGH NY 518-563-3791
The SOUND CONCEPT ROCHESTER NY 585-442-6050
NCS HOME INC. SYRACUSE NY 315-468-9783
WHAV, INC AIKEN SC 803-649-5828
SRL AUDIO FRANKLIN TN 615-369-0755
STATEMENT AUDIO KNOXVILLE TN 865-693-0084
Southern Tub and Lighting Lebanon TN 615-449-5253
AUDIO VIDEO ARTISTRY MEMPHIS TN 901-454-1621
NICHOLSON'S NASHVILLE TN 615-327-4312
Audio Video Advisors Norwich VT 603-795-9983
THE SOUND SELLER MARINETTE WI 715-735-5376
Sterling Sound Wheeling WV 304-243-1033
In Canada,
ARALEX Acoustics, LTD. Coquitlam BC 604 528-8965

Jeff

[vince2]

No dealers in Washington or Oregon? What are people in the Pacific NW supposed to do? Any on-line vendors?

[Johnla]

I don't see any listed for Illinois either.

[Jim Noyd]

Originally posted by vince2
No dealers in Washington or Oregon? What are people in the Pacific NW supposed to do? Speak to your local speciaist retailer, may be they'll sign up to become a dealer.

[Liaury]

Jeff, I'll say it again, "No dealer in the 4th largest city (Houston) in the U.S.!"

Shame.

[ARFF]

I think a vendor can ship out of state if you dont have any dealers in yours..

[Marmot]

Keep in mind when looking at the dealer list, this is the list of dealers that have weathered the long proverbial winter without the new products to sell. As the 965 products become readily available, I'm sure dealers will jump on board, or jump BACK on board. No matter how good the 863/963 product is, it must have been difficult to keep dealers happy through this period. I'd be willing to bet that there will be real dealers in most major metro areas fairly soon... if not, then perhaps 2-3 well-selected online retailers is a good idea.

[srw1000]

Jeff,

Thanks for your offer. I've sent you an email, filled with the details and frustrations of what I went through. I'm afraid it's rather long, but I've tried to keep to the points. If you wouldn't mind reading it, I'd be happy to hear from you.

Everything that I've read or seen about Newcastle has always implied quality, I hope that my case really was the exception.

Thanks again,

Scott

[catapult]

I think a vendor can ship out of state if you dont have any dealers in yours.. Man, I hope so considering only 16 of the 50 states have dealers. And only one dealer in the whole country of Canada. ;)

I strongly urge Newcastle to allow online sales. That's the only way most of us will ever see or hear one.

[bioforce]

Don't forget us:

SUMMIT Audio Video
310-446-0138
800-320-6884

We'll have the P-965 in our Demo System as soon as Matt at Westworld tells us they're in!!

[Jim Noyd]

Originally posted by bioforce
Don't forget us:

SUMMIT Audio Video
310-446-0138
800-320-6884

We'll have the P-965 in our Demo System as soon as Matt at Westworld tells us they're in!! Great John-
Let us know when it is set up in your demo room. I'd love to run some of my fav's through it. What speakers will you be demoing with?

[bioforce]

Hi Jim,

Looking forward to this unit for some time. It should be great.

Likely VMPS speakers.

[ARFF]

With these in demand and dealers so scarce, do you think any dealers will be selling at anything but MSRP? Is the chance of a few bucks off MSRP slim??

[afrogt]

Jeff,
Just out of curiosity is the Newcastle sound considered warm, bright, neutral when compared to similar receivers or amps from Harman Kardon, NAD, Rotel, Pioneer Elite and Denon?

Thanks.

[dsmith901]

Originally posted by Stereojeff
DSmith901:

Sorry to report that the P-965 does not offer "all channel" delay to correct any lip synch problems caused by the delay in video processing on some TV's.

Jeff

Jeff, this is a problem I have just recently become aware of, and I suspect it will be more prevalent as we all move to digital TVs with lots of video processing in the TV, DVD players, STBs, cable boxes, etc. As I plan to buy a plasma TV this problem becomes of primary concern to me. Don't you think this is something that a modern AV preamp should be able to address? It seems to me that ideally it should be something one can adjust "on the fly" as it were, as needed. Is there any way the P-965 can be upgraded to do this? If not, please ask your engineers consider it for future models. Thanks.

Dsmith

[Stereojeff]

Dsmith901:

I'll ask.

Jeff

[ARFF]

Well the closest dealer to me will ship it at his expense to me. He says the unit coming to him is on its way. He also wont do less than MSRP. Would you guys be willing to pay MSRP for this unit?? Need input quickly.

Brian

[Johnla]

Sight unseen, no user reviews yet, and just going by what's on the spec sheets....
I don't think I'd pay full MSRP in this way, unless he also allows you to do a full refund if you end up not liking it.

[AKA-Chuck G]

It just basic business 101.....demand vs supply....Very little supply with high demand = high price.

Why sell something for less when you can easily get more?

[patrickwebb]

Originally posted by Johnla
Sight unseen, no user reviews yet, and just going by what's on the spec sheets....
I don't think I'd pay full MSRP in this way, unless he also allows you to do a full refund if you end up not liking it.

I'm with you John. Luckily I have some time to wait for some user reviews to come in, since our HT is not finished yet.

[Johnla]

Yeah, if they are going to be selling for full MSRP anyway, or at least at first right out of the gate. It might be wise to wait until a few owner reviews come out before jumping on one. After all, it's not like they are going to be selling for more than MSRP later on.

[Marmot]

Even at full MSRP it is a bargain... unless I'm missing something. What else matches the specs and surround modes etc at $1499? Sure a few reviews will happen and we'll all be reassured of the unit, but any good dealer will stand behind the product, as I'm sure Newcastle will stand behind the dealer if there is "trouble" with the unit. The AVP9080 was a great piece, and the R963 receiver sounds very good (bass management & surround processing are a little weak though). I don't see why a dealer would discount it. Mine's on order at "full pop". You never regret buying quality products...especially when it's a great value.

[Marmot]

Don't forget us:

SUMMIT Audio Video
310-446-0138
800-320-6884

We'll have the P-965 in our Demo System as soon as Matt at Westworld tells us they're in!!


Who's Westworld, a distributor? So if Newcastles sells through distributors too, there might be MORE dealers out there with access to the units. I'm guessing the dealers who buy through distributors don't show up on the dealer list that was posted by Sherwood earlier. Is that right?

[Johnla]

Originally posted by Marmot
What else matches the specs and surround modes etc
Spec sheets are not everything. Almost every A/V product made, looks good on it's "spec sheets", but that don't alway prove true in real world use.

[ARFF]

True, but past products can mean a lot sometimes. Newcastle has a reputation for inexpensive, sweet sounding eqipment.