DVD 963 SA Arrived Today

[soundman38]

Finally today the box arrived to my home.
So i will be testing the coming days, i will keep you guys informed, YES YES YES!

[fjollon]

Congrats!

Looking forward to be hearing what you think about it.

[pteittinen]

Holy heck!

Congrats soundman38, please let us know the good news a.s.a.p :D

.p.

[H8nXTC]

Want to hear about the remote hack first... Does it have it????

[GTecX]

does this player use the faroudja chipset?

[soundman38]

First thing we open the machine and see : A FLI 2310 chip

[Grubert]

Excellent news. Have you been able to hack it to get (a) multi-region capability, and (b) PAL progressive output?

[soundman38]

Firmware 5580 4.81.17 021001P22201200 7.9.0
Hmm, version 4.81 P-code 222
Does not sound like a familiar one but we'll see.

[jonny m]

soundman
what can it do out of the box, pal prog? ntsc prog?

whats the picture quality like? and hows the sacd??

we await your results with great interest!!

(you lucky sod!)

ps where did you get it from??

[pteittinen]

jonny,
check out the location soundman38 lives in :)

.p. - green with dvd-envy

[Frode]

I'm really interested in a comparison between this and the Panasonic RP82. So if anyone has access to those two at the same time - please post? ;)

[jonny m]

pteittinen
damm, he prob lifted it off the production line and paid for it at the door! Just how much does it cost to fly to Netherlands anyway??

So how is the weather in helsinki, the wife is flying there next week with our little one to visit the relatives. If they sell them in the uk before that I'll get her to take you one over :D

[soundman38]

Ok, the RC6 Hack for region free with my Pronto worked also, :D
It looks like its going to be a nice weekend. :)

[Timh]

Hi, Will it play rce disc's? and doe's it do pal progressive scan?

Thanks

[WSquared]

Great news Soundman38. Keep up the testing and let us know about PAL-P.

I read that the 2310 was the version with digital outputs only, ie for projectors, and the 2301 was the version for DVD players. Hmmm. Must have been bad info. If it has a 2310 under the cover, then it must be a 2310.

How does the internal layout look? Well thought out? A few pics would be great.:)

[jonny m]

soundman38
great stuff! But could you put us out of our misery by answering the below question :

does it do pal progressive??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

:D :D

[soundman38]

We'll it does 480/525p if you switch it on,did not dare to hack it further yet, :o

[jonny m]

soundman38
Well thats a great start, whats the quality like of the downconversion to ntsc?

And whats just plain old prog scan ntsc like then???

Cheers again
John

[ZR]

Sound man, assuming that you have a Europe player, try the following:

The "Hack" for PAL p-scan is "play", "159 222 023 00" , then press "play" for region 2 player. Remember to do the P-scan HACK before you do the multi region hack.

This will allow an additional selection on the YUV p-scan output. This can be found on the video setup menu below aspect ratio (page2). The selections are "unprocess" which does pal p-scan on PAL disc. OR "480p" which converts everything to 480p.

[WSquared]

ZR, which version of software are you running on your 963sa? You probably listed it in your thread when you received your pre-release version european 963sa, but it would be useful to list it in this thread as well.

Also, thanks for posting the Pal-P hack. Assuming it works on Soundman's retail version, we have both the Pal-P & multiregion hacks confirmed for the retail european 963sa. Excellent news. I can't wait to get mine from within the UK, preferably locally.

Cheers,
William

[jonny m]

ZR
any way of doing the MR hack using the remote or a oneforall 6?

IF not do you need a palm ??

Cheers

[LeLapin]

ZR, are you sure that it doesn't miss a number
159 222 023 00 or 159 222 023 000 ???

[Tomas L]

soundman38: waiting for a review of the 963SA :)

Questions:

Ok, the RC6 Hack for region free with my Pronto worked also

What is "the RC6 Hack"? Links?

The "Hack" for PAL p-scan is "play", "159 222 023 00" , then press "play" for region 2 player. Remember to do the P-scan HACK before you do the multi region hack.

Is this the hack that worked on the Asian 962SA? Is it done with the original remote control to the player or do you need a service-remote?

Thanx ppl!
:)

[Rich Malloy]

I know this is the DVD Hardware side of the tracks, but I wonder if you might be willing to give us an idea about the SACD/CD playback capabilities? I'd love to hear your impressions regarding the sound quality on both SACDs and upsampled CDs (this sweet little puppy also does upsampling, right?).

Also, the only specs I've seen are those listed at J&R, which state in part "Advanced Bass Management sets each speaker's low-pass crossover point separately". Does this mean that one can select from a variety of crossover frequencies (60hz, 80, 100, etc.) for each speaker, or rather does this mean the same limited "large/small" selection of most/all other players at this price-point, where "small" is set at the less-than-optimal 120hz crossover frequency? If the former, then this is a rather big step-up in terms of bass management capabilities.

[zoro]

Any one knows on its availability, release, price in USA???Thnx.

[lonwolf615]

rich hit on exactly what I'd like to know too.But,hey,whatever you have time for.I just want to thank you for sharing any info.Waited for this player so long,its so good to know someone actually has one.

[Rich Malloy]

Re US availability, John Kotches has posted in another forum that his contacts have indicated first quarter 2003.

[zoro]

kool, but too late?

[Rich Malloy]

Better late than never!

[Rackon]

My burning question...can this player, with or without hack, convert PAL to NTSC??????

[John Kotches]

Zoro,

I'm just passing along what Philips has told me. Whether that's accurate or not, only time will tell.

Regards,

[soundman38]

Tomas l
For RC6 Hack see
*********.zonnet.nl/jeroenverhaar/index.htm

Rich Malloy
The crossover freq are 60-80-100-120 Hz
Freq Slope 12-18-24 dB/oct
Only for Sub output that is, The rest of the speakers are selectable only L or S.

Rackon
Sorry no Pal to NTSC on this European Machine.

[pnichols]

soundman38,

With that great FLI 2310 chip inside, what scaling has Phillips made available? The FLI23XX chip is supposed to finally combine great scaling with Faroudja deinterlacing.

Is this player the "first in the world" to hit the market with the new chip?

My worst fears may be getting realized here .......... I almost held off even longer to see what the Phillips DVD 963 SA offered before pulling the trigger on my Denon DVD-3800 - which DOESN'T have (the right) scaling and HAS only one crossover freq! I don't have buyer's remorse - just scaler's remorse.

[Lee Heytow]

You were fortunate and got a good solid working 3800. No one knows how good the implementation is on this 963sa is or what the build quality really is yet.

I suspect it will be June before we really have the answers if this is released first q 03 (I think that translates to end of March)

[John Kotches]

Lee,

1Q03 means from 1/1/03 to 3/31/03.

I think it'll be out earlier than 3/31/03, given its availibility in the Netherlands, but it's also strictly speculation on my part.

Regards,

[dishman-BT]

very nice does it have sdi out ???? :D

[Lee Heytow]

Yes John I understand. I usually find that any company saying release in any quarter usually means the end of that quarter, rather than the beginning - which is why I said the end of march. It would then take a length of time for distribution and sales to enough people to get a representative sampling of experiences. I figured another 2 to 3 months, or June.

That may be a slightly cynical view but I bet it still takes 2-3 months from the time it is available to get a representative view of the product from multiple users.

[dishman-BT]

Originally posted by soundman38
Finally today the box arrived to my home.
So i will be testing the coming days, i will keep you guys informed, YES YES YES!

nice has it sdi out :D :confused: ???????????
have some axon converters over to convert... lowres component video :-)

[WSquared]

It does not have SDI digital video output.

[soundman38]

For Dishman-BT

:D I should say make it a home project to make SDI outputs on it, first buy one. :p

[kwokyan]

Hi, soundman38,

Try the PAL progressive hack as told by ZR and see the results. Thanks! :)

[soundman38]

:D Ok i inputted The PAL Progressive Hack :p

[jonny m]

soundman
well...does it play???
:p

Im hoping to buy one of these early next week!!

[soundman38]

Right so far so good we have:

Rc6 hack worked

Pal P hack worked

The crossover freq are 60-80-100-120 Hz
Freq Slope 12-18-24 dB/oct
Only for Sub output that is, The rest of the speakers are selectable only L or S.

More questions anyone? :D :D :D

[soundman38]

:) Can't believe i let you guys screw up my new player like this. :D
But it is great fun isn't it. ;)

[fjollon]

Thanks for the info so far. I have some basic questions.

1. How are the picture and sound?

2. Have you tried upsampling when playing CD?

3. Is layer change visible, and if so, how long does it take?

Thx again :)

[jonny m]

soundman38
And you thought you would get a chance to watch dvd this weekend :p

Thanks for all the info and its great both hacks work, now means we can just get them off the shelf and hack them ourselves, no nasty hardware mods.

Oh how about RCE???

Cheers
John

[Lefreck]

Pal P hack worked
Did it work with the eleven digits that ZR provided or did you have to add a "0"?

[ZR]

The crossover is set on the subs but is applied correspondingly on the the appropriate channels (ie if it is set to small). It is done this way to prevent user to set in contradicting values.

[soundman38]

1. Picture and sound are a small notch above the 962SA, 13 bit video dac.

2. cd upsampling is very nice but i am still playing with it, I did not have a player which could do that earlier. But seems to take harsness out of some recordings.

3. Layer change has the same behavior as the 962sa wich was not bad.

4. Seems to have no problems with RCE.

5. ZR you are right.:D

[jonny m]

ZR,soundman38
Which is it :
"Hack" for PAL p-scan is "play", "159 222 023 00" , then press "play" for region 2 player
or
The "Hack" for PAL p-scan is "play", "159 222 023 000" , then press "play" for region 2 player

Thanks
John

[LeLapin]

it's very stange, on my player the rc6 hack (with pronto) and the pal progressif hack don't work. is it possible to make it regionfree with the original remote ??? And, please, do we have to enter 11 or 12 numbers for the p-scan hack ???

[soundman38]

Sorry Bit confused about that, i think it was the first one, but i had to try it two times, maybe i put an additional zero the second time, but i don't think so. I had to do the rc6 hack again because it was lost after PAL-p
hack.

[jonny m]

soundman
can you confirm that apart from either a pronto or oneforall (which I will be using) for the rc6 hack, you use the supplied remote to do the pal prog hack.


Cheers
John

[soundman38]

LeLapin

Do you have the same Firmware?

[soundman38]

jonny m

Yes, i used the original remote for the pal-p code,
And Pronto ofcourse for RC6 Regionfree.

Greetz m.

[LeLapin]

I have to check it (how to do it, it's not the same way as my 960). when I tried the rc6 hack with my pronto, it ligut the sensor of my philips TV (cinemalink), do you think it could make trouble with entering the hack ??? Thanks.

[soundman38]

LeLapin

I used the RC6 mode 0. System 4. Command 235. Pronto setting, Then Test IR,
All this with Prontoedit 1.05.
Then 222 222 005 255 With original remote.

[LeLapin]

so did I... and for checking the firmware, how to do it ???

[soundman38]

Go to the last menu page, go into it, then all the way down and it appears under the smart power off function.

[ZR]

The PAL hack code was correct in my original posting. Please note that this is for the EU version.

The sw version I have is xxxx.16 (ie 1 version before the final production version used by soundman).

BTW, the 192khz and 96khz sound different. The 192khz is richer while the 96Khz is somewhere in between 192khz and standard CD. Another tuning option for system matching.

[LeLapin]

ZR, soudman,
You're right. I had problem entering those codes before my player was link on my tv philips by a scart cable (what they call cinemalink). I had to remove the scart cable before using those hacks but now, it works perfectly (pal prog. and codefree). Thanks a lot...

[soundman38]

lelapin

Cheers have fun :D :D

[jonny m]

ZR,soundman
Thnx bundles both for the info.

Zr, you seem to be close all things 963 based, I found it strange that even after macrovision have said its ok to ship players with pal prog, phillips still have it turned off out of the box, any idea why this is??

Also remember a while back you talked about the Fli2301's ability to output above 576p and that they were playing with it in the labs, is there anything more to report on this or any avaliable info.

Cheers
John

[wilbur]

Hi Guys,
Is it true that the 963 has the macrovision swithched off out of the box?????????????
If not is it an easy hack to peform because macrovision is a problem with my CRT projector.
Any info would be appreciated.
Cheers, Steve.

[jonny m]

wilbur
now thats a good question..

[MCH]

What the Hell!!! When is someone that has this player actually going to give a review in regards to video, sound, and bass management?? Hopefully with some comparisons to players like the Pioneer 45A etc. Enough of the hacks, macrovisions etc. On with the show boys!!!

[wilbur]

MCH,
For some of us in PAL countries these sort of issues like PAL prog, RCE compatible, multiregion and macrovision removal are very important factors on wheter we should purchase this player or not. I have no doubt that the performance of this machine will be very good so the purchase decision comes down to all the hacks people are asking about. Let someone in the know answer these questions for us and then our decision then becomes a whole lot easier.
Cheers, Steve.

[paulz]

Hi everybody, and Thanks to ZR for this fun pal p scan indication.
Hmmm, may I dare ?... would it be possible to deliver 720p on this 2310 chip ? someone knows how to proceed ?
Else, after the pal prog hack, it seems to me that the travellings are less smooth than on my "old" 962sa dcdi pal prog. I can see more scales -> is it normal ?
cheers, Paulz

[WSquared]

Paulz, Can you clarify your post?
Do you have a 963sa and a 962sa? Are you saying that pans across a scene(travellings?) are less smooth on the 963sa than on the 962sa?
What do you mean by scales? jagged edges or scan lines?
What kind and size of display are you using?

William

[jonny m]

paulz
Thats interesting you see the image as worse with the 963, are you sure you are watching pal prog and not the downconversion to ntsc?

By most accounts the image of the 963 should be better and matches most high end players tosh 900, 747 etc.

Is it really a step down from the 962??

[ZR]

The 963sa is way better than the 962sa (at least from the video persective).

I think you see the "less smooth" video because the 963sa was set with true life at +3 from factory. This will be very nice on most material. However, if the source is of lesser quality, it tends to emphasize the noise of the material. To see less of this noise (smoothness), simply turn the true life setting to +1 or 0.

On the 963sa player, you can now truely compare PAL p-scan vs (downscales)NTSC p-scan. The PAL p-scan is very sharp as it has much more lines but you may experience some field flicker (50hz) on bright scenes. The NTSC p-scan is much more stable but is definately softer. Take your pick!

[paulz]

ZR, you read in my thoughts ! exactly what I wanted to say and your thread is totally exact !... sorry, but it was late morning when I wrote, and was very tired ! but exactly as ZR said just above, what's very hard is finding the good balance between all the capacities that player offers... and truelife is so marvelous that I had exagerated perhaps its value.
But : I don't know how ton configure the "aspect ratio" of the 963sa for my vw10ht.
and I don't have, as someone said on the post, the choice between pal, ntsc AND "auto".
My friends, this player is a savage horse and we have to overcome it... but, I find that's worth cause it's a really beautiful beast !!

[soundman38]

Well people playing around with the machine this weekend i have to conclude: that the 963 is in every way an upgrade from the 962.

Great picture, superb audio, no hangups till now, only the mains switch is electronic again,wich was a nice mechanical one at the 962.

There are indeed a lot of settings to experiment with but that is the fun of exploring new machines.

Just curious are we all having Firmware 5580 4.81.17 021001P22201200 7.9.0

Pteittienen
I realized you upgraded your 962 to F.W 6.0. Did you notice any diferences?

Greetz m.

[paulz]

soundman38 : the 6.0 update for the 962sa didn't improve capacity of the machine. I think it only was a problem of compatibility with some DVD's.
Else my firmware is : 5580 4.81.17 021001P22202300 7.9.0
there's a difference. Perhaps issue of the Prog Pal hack ?
Other people have the same like mine after pal hack ?
End : is it possible to make macro-off & all region free using the original philips remote ? I don't have pronto nore oneforall.

[soundman38]

Paulz

You are right,
out of the box it was Firmware 5580 4.81.17 021001P22201200 7.9.0
and after PAL-p hack Firmware 5580 4.81.17 021001P22202300 7.9.0

Greetz m.

[MariuszP]

paulz:
Try this: http://www.abc.se/~m1019/dvdplusrw/regionfree/
Macro would require real firmware hacking (unless there is another backdoor left in firmware, like for PAL-prog.).

Regards

[paulz]

Thank you so much MariuszP.
Aaarrgghh ! too much hard for me, I have gloves on my hands ! but thank U again !
and else, happy that soundman38 find the same n° firmware (ouf !!)
cheers
paulz

[lonwolf615]

well,this is great.thanks to all for sharing their perceptions on this player and know that some of us in the usa are green with envy!Please keep us informed as you learn more,I'm hanging on every post.

[ainfante]

To the hopeful owners of a 963SA:

If you're really in a hurry to get your hands on a 963SA, remember that the player is multi-voltage (110V-240V) and multi-system (NTSC and PAL), and can easily be changed to multiregion. If you're having problems getting one, and want it ASAP, I'm sure I can contact a local (in The Netherlands) mail order shop that will be willing to shop the player anywere in the world already multi-region. If you're interested, PM me and I'll send you the details of the shop (or shops - I'll get a list and prices during the next week). Considering the projected price I've seen in some US sites, it'll probably not only get there faster, but also end up being cheaper, even with shipping.

Best regards,

Afonso.

[ZR]

Dear Paulz,

I would recommend the below setting for you VW10HT.

Set the TV system to "Auto", this will allow it to use whatever native resolution your disc is recorded in.

PAL Hack output set to "unprocess" since flicker will not be a problem with LCD type display.

My favourite setting of Truelife is "+2" with details set to "+3". This works well with most Film base DVD on my 31" HDTV (CRT base).

[pteittinen]

Wow. Spend a few days away from the net and the 963SA thread _explodes_ :)

soundman, yes I did upgrade the firmware on the 962SA. It didn't add any new functions but the Atlantis CE started working properly after the upgrade.

OK, now we have region free and PAL progscan hack. Any of the European members willing to sell me a 963SA? :D

cheers,
.petri.

[paulz]

ZR, thanks a lot... My settings for truelife and sharpness are exactly set like yours (perhaps we are brothers & we don't know ?). But when you say "Set the TV system to "Auto", this will allow it to use whatever native resolution your disc is recorded in", is it on the dvd player ? cause I don't have seen "auto" on the 963sa (abnormal ?), but only "pal" or "ntsc". If you speak about my vw10ht, I don't have it no more while using YUV inputs, but only on composite or s-vhs.
Else : About the p-scan aspect ratio, I desactivated it as my projector seems to make it alone.
cheers,
Paulz

[soundman38]

:D Petri Probably i can deliver any number you like (within reason naturally)
But Shipping is a problem probably :D

[soundman38]

Paulz

The auto setting is not on my machine also, no sweat,
and yes i made the codefree hack.
greetz m.

[fjollon]

I actually found a place (http://www.dvdupgrades.ch/cgi-bin/shop/list/DVDplayers/Philips.html) in Europe that ship them.

Don't know if I have the guts to order one myself though. ;)

[paulz]

soundman, did you make the code free hack ? if not ,(like me) I was thinking to myself that would perhaps be the reason ?
Waiting for ZR... please help.

[ainfante]

Hello!

First of all, thank you to all that PM'd me. There were so many I decided to share my findings with everybody.

There's a Dutch Mail Order shop called Soundform that has the 963SA in stock and can ship anywhere in the world. The price is 419 Euros (or US$419 since the Euro and the US Dollar are currently worth the same). That's 30% cheaper than the site mentioned above (DVDupgrades.ch)!!! Of course, it's plus shipping (10 Euros inside Netherlands, 25 Euros to Europe, 50 US Dollars to US or elsewhere outside Europe) and, of course, VAT (19%) if you live inside the EU.

In any case, I don't think you can get a better price anywhere else in the World (nothing like getting them at the source :))

If you're interested, their e-mail adresses are:

sales@soundform.nl (English)

or

verkoop@soundform.nl (Dutch)

Don't forget to mention where you live (Town and Country) and method of payment (they only accept Wire Transfer or PayPal for international customers - Dutch customers can also order "Onder Rembours") so they can give you an exact quote.

They told me they are selling them very quickly, so hurry before they run out of stock.

Best regards,

Afonso.

[deus-ex]

Ok, now what about the 720p and other ?

This chip is capable of doing this isnt it ?

[pteittinen]

Afonso,

thanks again for that crucial bit of information. I'm |<->| this close to ordering the player from them, but a little voice at the back of my head keeps insisting that I might get it cheaper from Finland - whenever the player becomes available here, that is. :D

.petri.

[pteittinen]

deus-ex,

on paper it is capable of 720p, true. AFAIK the player does not support 720p out-of-box... but if we play nice, who knows, perhaps Philips' engineers give us the P-code which enables the higher resolutions :D

.p.

[MariuszP]

paulz:

More ways to generate RC6 code :D
http://home.hccnet.nl/r.de.haas/RC6/otherways.htm

Regards

[fjollon]

ainfante: You'r right, they are cheaper than the one I linked to. I have ordered one now... Thx :)

[CKNA]

In any case, I don't think you can get a better price anywhere else in the World (nothing like getting them at the source )

Right now no, but when it comes out in US it will be even cheaper than $419. J&R is already taking preorders at $399.

[CKNA]

In any case, I don't think you can get a better price anywhere else in the World (nothing like getting them at the source )

Right now no, but when it comes out in US it will be even cheaper than $419. J&R is already taking preorders at $399.

[freoh]

I am absolutely new to this board. I am planning to buy my first dvd player. So I have narrowed it down to the Philips DVD963SA (DVD962SA if they get cheaper soon), or the Sony NS755V or Panasonic RP82. I just wanted to get a reliable unit now that the technology has matured. I can't find any information about the Philips' reliability (of the 962 obviously).

Looking at www.audioreview.com it seems that many players develop problems within 2 years. Or maybe people without problems don't post.

I just hate to buy features that I won't notice. I don't know about upgrades for each unit. I do appreciate build quality. My receiver is a NAD 761 and speakers are Energy Veritas v2.2. I plan to go HDTV when they come down in price. DVDA and SACD don't matter to me.

Do you expect the extra $200 cost for the Philips will show? Will one brand last longer than another? I was hoping to get rid of my Yamaha CD player but everyone seems to say that CD playback is worse on DVD players. I suppose it costs nothing to keep it.

Thanks for your time.

[keyser]

How does the 963 compare against other top quality players like the pioneer 737 and 747? I have a 737 and was thinking of switching if the 963 is better( and the bonus of pal progressive).

The 963 has crystalclear right? What are your settings on that?

Since the faroudja chip can do scaling to many resolutions, do you think that it´s possible to scale on the philips with some hack (would be really plasma friendly).. has Philips commented anything on that?

Has anyone tried the player with a plasma?

[sandeepg]

Has anybody dealt with the source posted by "ainfante" ? What has been your experience? I am thinking of ordering with them but just want to check around first.
I did shoot them 3 emails today and their response was amazingly fast,
I was impressed.

-Sandeep

[paulz]

soundman38 : thank you for answering me... I thank I became fool (how awfull my english language is !!)

mariuszp : thank U very much... you are fabulous... I will buy a onefarall this week !

[puddleduck]

I'm UK based and desperately trying to get hold of a player, so I fired off an e-mail to soundform.nl

They replied very quickly :)

Note the price seems to have gone up, and they are now out of stock. I'll probably place an order Friday, once I've got Paypal up and running.

Dear Andrew,

We ran out of stock yesterday at the end of the day, but we will have more Friday, so we can ship then. You’d then receive the package by Wednesday.

Please note that with UK customers we can only accept PayPal as a form of payment… If you don’t have an account already, you can open one in www.paypal.com.

Total price for Friday shipping (Wednesday delivery) would be 440 Euros + Dutch VAT (19%) = 524 Euros = 335 GBP at current exchange rates.

Best regards,

Soundform Sales.

[ainfante]

Puddleduck:

I was scared for a moment when you said the price had gone up. It didn't. :) It's still 419 Euros + shipping + 19% VAT. :) In you case it's 419 + 25 + 19% = 524 Euros.

I'll probably order from them too soon...

Best regards,

Afonso.

[keyser]

Does the 963 play SVCD?

Does anyone know if scaling will be possible on this deck.. via hack or somthing, or has Philips just left the scaling properties of the faroudja chip unused?

[ZR]

Of course it plays SVCD. It will also play MP-3(!).

As per the scaling, there is still no further infomation.

[Kondrup]

Hi, there.

Any signs of croma bug on this new wonder.

And what about difficult disks ? No hang-ups, stutters, audio glitches ?

Also, does it play DVD-R's, DVD-RW's etc.

Jake

[napp]

Originally posted by ainfante
Puddleduck:
I was scared for a moment when you said the price had gone up. It didn't. :) It's still 419 Euros + shipping + 19% VAT. :) In you case it's 419 + 25 + 19% = 524 Euros.
Afonso.

Well, but are the 963's coming from them already Region-free and Progressive Pal modified? I've really little time to spend to input codes and I don't have a Pronto...

Thanks for the info!
napp

[videoking]

I'm looking forward to a word about its ability to upsample Redbook cds and how SACD's sound on this player.
If it can do those 2 things well and produce a nice picture then its a grand slam.

[H8nXTC]

I'm sure that it plays DVD-R and DVD-RW, but does it play DVD+R and DVD+RW? If so, Sanyo CRD-BPDV2 DVD+R/W burner, here I come when you're out!
I'm sure that it does not come pre-modified from the factory, the remote hack is not difficult or time consuming, you only need to do it once. If you want if premodified, you can order it from hivizone.com, but I don't think it's worth the extra $200+ (including tax/duties), plus expensive shipping charges.

On a side not, with the new HD burn on the new Sanyo DVD burner, fitting a entire movie on one side of a VCD will be nice. With the Yamaha CRW-F1 t@2 option, it sure would be nice if there where such a thing as double data sided CD-R and CD-RW. Movie on one side, t@2 "label" on the other! How come no manufacterer has done this? Yamaha even...

[pteittinen]

H8nXTC,

judging by the 962SA I've got, the 963SA will play everything you throw at it.

[kwokyan]

Hi,

Philips 963SA is finally available in Hong Kong now! It is multi-region and can output PAL progressive scan out-of-the-box. One interesting thing is that the firmware version is a bit different:
5580 4.81.17 021001P32302200 7.9.0

Obviously the 'p-code' is different; but what is the meaning behind? :confused:

[pteittinen]

ZR and soundman38,

perhaps I'm feeling a bit thick at the moment, thanks to a throbbing headache, but I would really appreciate a concise all-in-one instructions on how to make the 963SA both region-free and PAL progressive scan using a Palm V (I've got the necessary software needed to make Philips-brand players code-free). The info is probably scattered around this thread but it seemed to me that there is some confusion around the matter.

Thanks!

.petri.

[pteittinen]

kwokyan,

thanks for the info regarding the HK firmware. Perhaps someone might be tempted to try and input the string "159 323 022 00" into their 963SA and see what happens.

.petri.

[pteittinen]

OK, someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but to hack the European 963SA, the steps would be:

1) PAL p-scan hack: press "play", "159 222 023 00", then press play again. The player is now region 2 only but has PAL p-scan enabled.
2) input RC6 code (from Palm, for example) and enter "222 222 005 255" with original remote.

Is that it?

Hmm... how would one input the "159 323 022 00" as an RC6 string?

I was just wondering whether it would be possible to modify the European 963SA using the string from Kwokyan's firmware, as the HK 963SA is multi-region and PAL p-scan out-of-box.

.petri.

[ainfante]

napp,

I double checked with Soundform, and yes, the players they sell come PAL progressive and multi-region out of the box, unless you ask them not to do that.

Afonso.

[pteittinen]

ainfante,

thanks for that nugget of gold!

.petri.

[MRaitio]

963 SA is NOW available in very limited quantity at hivizone (https://www2.setssl.com/~hivizone/dvdplayer/main_frame.htm) for US$619 + shipping, minus 5% discount for members, who have bought something before from the company.

[MariuszP]

kwokyan:

P-code is different because it's region 3 player and the hardware is different (no scarts I presume). I agree that it would be interesting to see what happens, especially when changing 23 to 22 in pal progressive hack.

Regards

[jhonkanen]

Originally posted by pteittinen
ainfante,

thanks for that nugget of gold!

.petri.

Just ordered mine! Thanks ainfante and Petri for the information! Hope it arrives next week.

Cheers,
Jorma

[jonny m]

pteittinen
yup, that looks right.

[keyser]

The 963 is multivoltage and can be region hacked. Does that mean it doesn´t matter where I buy it, I can plug it in(us machines in europe and vice verca) and hack it and play all DVD´s?

[ainfante]

Keyser,

In a word: yes. You can buy it anywhere. It will work everywhere.

Best regards,

Afonso.

[Rich Malloy]

I know my question is less relevant for the DVD Hardware forum, but I'm hoping someone can compare the 963's SACD and redbook performance against some of the better, more popular SACD/CD players. I'd be particularly interested to hear how it stacks up against the Sony ES series players (the 555ES is only somewhat more expensive than the 963, and the 222ES is somewhat less so). Thanks!

[pteittinen]

Just got an e-mail from Soundform; they shipped my 963SA today, and I should have it on Monday.

Rich, I've got a Sony ES SACD-player here somewhere, can't remember the model, but it might be 7xx (not 777 though). I'll see what I can hear (ehhh!).

.petri.

[fjollon]

Originally posted by keyser
The 963 is multivoltage and can be region hacked. Does that mean it doesn´t matter where I buy it, I can plug it in(us machines in europe and vice verca) and hack it and play all DVD´s?

If you need scart, I think you would wanna buy it in Europe though.


Originally posted by pteittinen
Just got an e-mail from Soundform; they shipped my 963SA today, and I should have it on Monday.

Rich, I've got a Sony ES SACD-player here somewhere, can't remember the model, but it might be 7xx (not 777 though). I'll see what I can hear (ehhh!).

.petri.

Getting mine monday too. :D

[ainfante]

pteittinen and fjollon:

I envy you! It seems you got your order in before they ran out of stock. I should've been faster too...

Oh well, they'll have more stock by Friday, so I'll have mine then...

Best regards,

Afonso.

[Rich Malloy]

Thanks, pteittinen and fjollon! I may be the only person more interested in the 963's SACD capabilities than its DVD capabilities, but I think we'd all be really and truly impressed if it could actually approach or equal the quality of the Sony ES players in that regard... plus CD upsampling and DVD-V!!!

[monk]

The Philips 963's from Europe have the SCART , those from Hong Kong don't.

Are there any consequences of this for a N. American user ? For example, if I bought a machine from Europe and it had a SCART,...this would be in addition to and not instead of the Component out's I need ?

Would there be any negatives at all to the SCART being there ? (besides that it wouldn't be needed or used)

Also, I've heard the 963 will do PAL --> NTSC conversion, but only for an interlaced signal and only from the SCART or Composite outs (was told this is stated in the manual ?) .

Martin

[Fergy]

I live in a NTSC country. If I order from your European sources will the player I get do NTSC all right?

[ainfante]

Monk:

No consequences. The European version does have a pair of SCARTs, but it's *extra* - the Component outs are still there (Gold Plated and everything... :)). So you can safely ignore the SCARTs. No negatives.

The 963 will do PAL to NTSC conversion, EVEN for progressive through component. Actually, it does output progressive NTSC (480p) by default from any DVD (even PAL Region 2); if you want PAL progressive you have to enter the magic codes and force it to output PAL progressive.

Fergy:

Yes, you will get NTSC on the 963 - you can select that in the menus.

Best regards,

Afonso.

[monk]

This is a great forum, ...Thank You for the helpful reply Afonso. ...

I *should* wait (for USA release of 963sa) , but I've been anxious for ages to get a nice mutlti-everything machine. I've got a few PAL discs that I can't watch and am hoping to start buying more (thought I'd try Ebay auctions in Europe, Amazon Europe and will search this forum's software section for more tips).

With a front projector and 8 ft screen, I wasn't enthusiastic about buying one of the cheaper, crappier, PAL/NTSC machines. Besides the picture, I'm limited on inputs and 2 DVD players, even 2 nice ones, would be awkward (just a single component input on the projector,....just 2 component in's on the receiver, one of which will be satalite TV etc.).

So this 963sa will be great. I have SACD in a different audio system, but I'll like being able to spin them in the living room too. It'll do the best with PAL to PAL, NTSC, convert them one to the other, great video chips etc. etc., I'm very much looking forward to this machine.

....Now I just need to ask the rest of you not to order them all on me !

M.

[paulz]

Hi everybody, do we have some good news about the 720p output on that famous player ?

[ainfante]

Paulz,

Nope, no 720p. Fuggedabouit. :) Remeber, this baby is supposed to be a mid-low range price player, so don't be too picky, OK? :)

Best regards,

Afonso Infante.

[wilbur]

Hi all,
Appears Hivizone have sold out of stock also on this machine. Looks like if you want one that stock will trickle through to suppliers when Phillips have them avaliable.
Cheers, Steve.

[pteittinen]

I got an extensive price list from Soundform. It's 135 kilobytes - you've been warned :D

http://www.electrichoverdonkey.com/Soundform_Price_List.txt

Remember that US$ and Euro are pretty much the same value at the moment.

.petri.

[pteittinen]

ainfante,

the functionality for higher resolutions is built into the new Faroudja chip, so we can at least hope, right? :D

.petri.

[paulz]

That's totally correct pteittinen !

[puddleduck]

I've ordered mine from Soundform.nl - probably paying a bit over the odds too be honest, but I've been waiting too long alread....


Dear Andrew,

Payment has been received. Again, many thanks for your order. We have confirmation that we will receive your player tomorrow, and it will be shipped the same day (Multiregion, PAL Progressive). You should have it by next Wednesday.

We will send you a note as soon as the package is on its way.

Best regards,

Soundform Sales.



I'll report back when I get the player :)

[pteittinen]

Andy,

do you mean you paid too much for it? Philips Finland was going to go for a 700 Euro price tag for the 963SA, so to my mind, Soundform's price is practically a steal.

.petri.

[puddleduck]

I think it will probably end up cheaper in the UK (when it arrives) - Dutch VAT is 19%, whereas its 17.5% in the U.K, and I also had to pay for shipping. Paying in Euro's also added 2-3% to the cost due to currency commision charges.

The cost will end up around £350 shipped- the current 962SA can be found over here for about £310 including VAT (17.5%) and shipping, so I'd expect to see the 963SA for about the same price.

I should have it by wednesday so I'm not complaining :)

[Ewong]

It's now available in major store in Hong Kong at $4690 (original price) with 2 SACD as gift.

Most people just get this player today and try it out now.

Some of them paid $4000 after discount.

[ainfante]

Ewong,

4000 HK Dollars is 511 Euros, so that's not too bad. But 4690 (600 Euros) is definitely steep.

By the way, ALL 963SAs come with two SACDs as a gift... :) Even those in Europe...

Best regards,

Afonso.

[puddleduck]

do you know what the free SACD titles are?

I ordered "Rage On" by Frankie Goes to Hollywood - really hard to track down, but I really want to see what SACD can do, and its supposed to be an excellent demo disk.

[TonyS]

Since it doesn't appear that this has been answered, does this player (as noted in the Philips literature) have "zoom (x1.33, x2, x4) with picture enhancement"? If so, how's the PQ when using it? Thanks in advance as I eagerly await its release in the U.S.!

[TellW]

The 963sa is available here in Switzerland too. I spoted it today on www.fischerhifi.ch .They have it in stock. The price is CHF 650 ( = 430 Euro incl. 7.2% VAT). The official price is CHF 799 (532 Euro).
Chris

[pesa]

Since I'm looking for a new player I've read this thread with great interest. You are almost led to believe that this is the greatest thing since canned beer. Just to put this in perspective for me (and if we disregard the price for a moment), how does this player fair with it's competitors like Rotel 1080, Primare V25, Arcam DV88 and Denon 2800 MkII.

These are the players that I have considered so far (until the 963SA came along that is).

Peter

[deus-ex]

I have one last question, is the progressive scan MACRO OFF ?

I mean, it appears that only the 2300 chip have macro capabilities on high rez.
This player has the 2310 chip, that doesn't have this capability.

I have a CRT proj that may not accept any signal including macrovision protection, so i would like to know if the signal is macrovision free.

thx.

[paulz]

Pesa, please let me tell you that's too difficult answering such a question. Everyone has its own perception of all... but we can't disregard the price of this product, cause, like for all others players, the money you invest on it is no more than a bet, isn't it ?
Most of us, on this thread, may think that the risk, regarding price and performances, is not too high... and they bet !
For my part, I really not had any deception....
Sorry for my so bad english language "made in France"
Cheers,
Paulz

[dougbanker]

What's the difference between the DVD962SA and the 963sa??? I live in the US so I don't know if the 963sa is here yet? Also, does anyone know if the picture quality from the DVD962SA is better or worse than the q50 by Philips? Thanks!

[ainfante]

puddleduck:

I believe the SACDs are classical music and some "demo" style. One of them is hybrid, and they give it with the main purpose of letting you do A/B comparisons (SACD vs CD).

TonyS:

The 963SA does have 1.33x, 2x and 4x zoom, but from what I've heard the quality is not that great (no filtering), and the 1.33x zoom is no good for de-letterboxing non-anamorphic widescreen titles, because it crops the sides too (even if you set it not to horizontaly expand non-anamorphics).

TellW:

That price in Switzerland (400 Euros without VAT) is very good - for Swiss people :). Unfortunately ALL people outside Switzerland - including the ones in EU - will have to pay import tax, which is always at least as high as the local VAT...:(

[ainfante]

TellW:

AHA! :) I checked the current value of the Swiss Franc and you're wrong: 648 CHF = 442 Euros. That means that the price without Swiss VAT (the price valid for anyone outside Switzerland) is 412 Euros... So it's more or less the same price as Soundform, which makes perfect sense....

[ainfante]

dougbanker:

The 963SA has a beefed up video section: it has the newest DCDi de-interlacing chip (FLI23x0), and a higher resolution Video DAC (13-bit/108 MHz vs 12-bit/54MHz).

Also, it has Bass Management for SACD...

You can find the brochure and leaflet on the Philips.co.uk site, for example.

[pesa]

Paulz,
I realize the difficulty in any comparison and of course personal preferences always will be the most important thing. However, discussing those comparisons and preferences is one thing that this forum is about, right?

I am very impressed with what I have found out about the 963SA so far. Living in the US I can't compare it with any other machines and that's why I'm curious if anyone has had an opportunity to see how it performs compared with the players in the USD1200-2000 range.

Peter

[dougbanker]

Thanks for the reply aiufaute-
Will the dvd963 work in the usa fine? Does is accept all dvd code regions?

Would you go with the dvdq50 or the dvd963?

[ainfante]

dougbanker:

Yes, the DVD963 will work in the USA just fine. You can enable it to accept all DVD code regions yourself or get it from a retailer that does that for you.

[dougbanker]

ainfante:
thanks for the reply and all the info. Don't know who's carrying the 963 yet though...might have to wait a while before it's available in Colorado.

Doug

[dougbanker]

I have a question I'm hoping someone will be able to answer...

I'm thinking about getting either the DVDQ50AT or the DVD962AS. The tv I'm currently using is the Panasonic CT-36HX42, which DOES NOT have ID-1 detection for anamorphic dvd's. This is a problem because if a dvd player does not have the option for selecting a certain aspect ration, my tv will display anamorphic dvd's (2.32:1) in a widescreen (16:9) format. Which will dramatically alter the image to unwatchable dimensions.

My question is: I have heard people say that these two dvd players from Philips do not have apect ratio control. However, the specs state that it has the capabilty of aspect ration conversion (16:9, 4:3 letterbox, and 4:3 panscan) and that it is selectable. I don't know if my TV will work properly with either of these players or not. I've contacted Philips and as luck would have it they don't know what I'm talking about. I'm pretty sure it won't work, but I'm not entirely sure. Any help here would GREATLY be appreciated!!!

I want to stick with the Philips because of it's quality and the Faroudja chip it employs. Thank you-

Doug

[paulz]

Pesa,
I realize too your difficulty... the same we all always have... but, I think that nobody would give you the universal answer for 1 reason : all the audio and video chain would be the same you own... and ajustments of it, too !
You and we have all seen some good elements in certain situations, become disaster in another one... that's perhaps why, on the forums, the best that people can do is giving impressions about qualities, technics and defaults of products... after that, all is only subjective.
Friendly yours, and expecting you'll find your better solution.
Paulz

[pesa]

Paulz,
Trust me, "impressions about qualities, technics and defaults of products" is all I'm asking for. Thank you for your comments, though.

Peter

[pesa]

Has anyone that ordered their player from Soundform received them yet?

I'm getting ready to buy my player from them (I was told that there are new deliveries incoming tomorrow Friday and next week Wednesday) and I want to make sure that everything worked smoothly for the ones that have ordered so far.

Peter

[wilbur]

Can anyone answer dues-ex question? Is macrovision off on Progressive?
I too have a projector that is not macrovision friendly and really need to know if it is on or not?
Cheers, Steve.

[TellW]

ainfante:
Yes, you're right. Out of habit I calculated with 1.5CHF=1Euro. I didn't realize the swiss franc became that strong against the euro.

[monk]

Well,...I bit the bullet and ordered a Philips 963sa from the Dutch company Soundform ($419 + $60 Express Mail). They're not open yet this morning, so I haven't had a confirmation of order yet and am not 100% that I won't have to wait for stock,...though they're supposed to have some.

I'm in the USA (WA) and will report if there are any issues that crop up with using this Euro-Market player here in the US (I hope not ! ...it's supposed to be multi-voltage and multi-region/format).

M.

[pteittinen]

wilbur,

I guess soundman38 and ZR are the only ones who have the player at the moment. I should get mine on Monday and will then be able to confirm/deny the rumour.

.petri.

[wilbur]

Thanks Petri,
That would be great if you can let me know one way or another.
Cheers, Steve.

[deus-ex]

No one to answer to my question ?

macro on/off ?

[deus-ex]

Originally posted by soundman38
Connected the 963 to a wave form monitor,

Macro is on, also on progressive connections, sorry,

Greetz m.

You've tested it ?

Imagine I plug an Audio Authority 9A62 on it, do you think it is possible to remove the macro with it ?
Does anyone use this player to provide a RGB signal ? (i know its output is YUV but with converter...)

Am I the only one in that case ?

[soundman38]

Sorry deus-ex disregard last post,

Connected 963 to Wave Form Monitor and found the following results.

Macro is off using progressive scan,

In short

1 macro is on using scart bus etc.
2 macro is on using yuv bus normal scan

3 macro is off using yuv bus progressive scan
4 macro is off using yuv bus pal-p

Greetz m.

[janisl]

This is just a quick "thank you guys" reply.
I got my 963 a week ago. Was afraid to do the regionhack
(and didn't even know about a PAL-P hack).
I now hacked mine.
Great informative forum!

Later,

Janis

[pteittinen]

deus-ex,

I got an e-mail from Copperbox (who sell the Audio Authority 9A62) that it won't work with PAL progscan.

soundman38,

that's simply excellent news! Thank you!

.petri.

[deus-ex]

Originally posted by soundman38
Sorry deus-ex disregard last post,

Connected 963 to Wave Form Monitor and found the following results.

Macro is off using progressive scan,

In short

1 macro is on using scart bus etc.
2 macro is on using yuv bus normal scan

3 macro is off using yuv bus progressive scan
4 macro is off using yuv bus pal-p

Greetz m.

Thank you Soundman38

[soundman38]

OK people, something nasty is happening.

When you power off and restart the machine, macro is on, also on progressive busses, in progressive mode.

Then if you go to the menu: 480p/unprocessed, and toggle between these, macro disappears in both modes,

Life is full off surprises.

Greetz m.

[Frode]

Have you tested this with a disc containing the macrovision flag - and playing it back? The player shouldn't normally run macrovision out when in stop/menu mode, but should output macrovision once a disc with the flag is inserted.

[Frode]

Have you tested this with a disc containing the macrovision flag - and playing it back? The player shouldn't normally run macrovision out when in stop/menu mode, but should output macrovision once a disc with the flag is inserted.

[keyser]

What is macrovison.. it´s just a copy protection thing isn´t it. I only have to worry about it if I plan on recording.. or what the heck is it??

[deus-ex]

Macrovision modify the synchro, some display devices doesn't handle that very well, not at all indeed !

[chrisexv6]

Is this player going to make it to the US? If so, any expected date?

-Chris

[leobag]

monk,

Keep up with the status of your order. I too am in the US and am very interested in this player... I just don't want to pay too much (because sometime it WILL be available here... for cheaper (probably). I just don't know if the US version will be hackable...

Can anyone make an educated guess about the US version of the 963SA being able to play PAL-to-NTSC, and all regions? Would the PAL-to-NTSC be 480P?

Thanks,
Leo

[ainfante]

Hello!

For those who were wondering which are the Hybrid SACDs that come with the 963SA...

- one is by the Budapest Festival Orchestra, and includes a series o classical music pieces, including Ravel's Bolero

- the other is a "Movie / TV Series Soundtrack Medley", with Jerry Goldsmith's soundtacks (including the one for Star Trek: The Motion Picture and the one for Star Trek: Voyager).

They're both hybrid, so you can do A/B comparisons.

Hope this is of interest to someone... :)

Best regards,

Afonso.

[paulz]

soundman, when you say about macro : "power off" and restart", it means unplugging the player, or simply power off with the remote ?
cheers,
Paulz

[jhonkanen]

- the other is a "Movie / TV Series Soundtrack Medley", with Jerry Goldsmith's soundtacks (including the one for Star Trek: The Motion Picture and the one for Star Trek: Voyager).

They're both hybrid, so you can do A/B comparisons.

Hope this is of interest to someone... :)


Hope my 963SA arrives early next week! And yes, those demo discs interest atleast me a *lot* - being an Star Trek fan and all LOL!

Jorma

[leobag]

Looking at the owners manual...

If NTSC is your selected default output, and you insert a PAL DVD, then manual states this is "not supported."

Does this mean it does not convert PAL to NTSC?

Thanks,
Leo

[ainfante]

Leo,

If you use the *Component* outputs, you'll get 480p or 480i, even with PAL DVDs (unless you enable PAL progressive and set it to unprocessed. But even so you can always set it to 480p again).

If you use *Composite* or *S-Video*, no, it does NOT convert PAL to NTSC on those outputs..

Best regards,

Afonso.

[monk]

Hello,

Anyone else order the 963sa from Soundform in Denmark ? What was the ordering procedure ?

After an e-mailing quoteing me a price and shipping and that I could pay with PayPal,...I authorized payment (to the english language sales e-mail addrss).

Since then I've received no notice or confirmation that my order was received (I e-mailed as well as sending the PayPal),...and I noticed today that they hadn't claimed the PayPal funds.

Being unsure of the situation/status of order or if I'd ordered according to the correct procedures, I decided to cancel the PayPal payment.

What Soundform e-mail address did you send payment to ? Have you had recent (last 2 or 3 days) e-mail contact from them ?

Thanks, Martin

[pteittinen]

monk,

within EU - at least between certain countries - it's possible to ship the player Cash On Delivery (C.O.D.). The player arrives in the local post office and one pays the sum there. COD works from Holland (Soundform is not in Denmark) to Finland, so that's the method I chose to use, as I don't have a PayPal account - and have no plans to acquire one.

I swap e-mails with Soundform daily, usually 2-3 mails per day, to the sales@soundform.nl address. They had a glitch in the e-mail system earlier today and all e-mails bounced back, but it seems to be working OK now.

As far as I know, Soundform is practically drowning in orders for the 963SA, so some delays shouldn't be unexpected.

.petri.

[keyser]

Is there any review out yet on the 963.. or even coming soon??

[monk]

Petri, ..thanks for the feedback. I'll just write to them again and see how it goes, hopefully they won't burn through all current stock ...

I'll guess that they are just swamped with orders/e-mails, ...but I decided to cancel the PayPal (until a seller accepts the PayPal it's a simple matter of cancelling the PayPal online ; after a seller accepts the funds, the funds can not be taken back ..., none of the usual Credit Card protections). It only takes a minute to resend the funds . I was just not comfortable with the authorized payment sitting their unclaimed and not having heard any kind of confirmation of order.

Do Soundform have a website ? Anyone know much about the store, for example are they a single/small store ? a large chain in Holland ?

Thanks, M.


Martin

[pesa]

Monk,
I copied my last e-mail I got from soundform to you. As you can see there is a speciel e-mail to use for paypal payments... Also there seems to be new players coming in on Wednesday.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Dear Peter,

You just need to put the DVD Player model in the information, along
with your name and address. Our PayPal e-mail address is

paypal@soundform.nl
---
Best regards,

Soundform Sales.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

I still haven't decided to do yet for myself. As you are, I am somewhat concerned to buy from Soundform (as far as I understand they have no website...) and I'm hoping that our friends of this forum that have ordered, soon will be able to give us feed-back that everything is working smoothly regarding their orders.

Peter:confused:

[Music]

Hello,

PAL is 576P while NTSC is 480P. When 963SA concerts PAL to NTSC progressive, what happens to those 576-480=96 lines?

Thanks.

P.S. I was a Q50 user and now a 962SA user and will own a 963SA in the near future :>

[WSquared]

Petri,
I remember you posted some pics of the Nintaus 9769 once upon a time. Can you post some pics of the 963sa when you get it?
I think I am going to wait until I can buy the 963 locally.
I can't wait to throw the 9769 in the trash.
Cheers, William

[ainfante]

Monk, Pesa:

Since I'm the one who recommended the shop in the first place, I tried to found out what happened... I don't want to see you guys hanging in the dry.

Monk, they did send you an e-mail on Friday saying they were out of stock and asking you to cancel the PayPal payment since it went to the wrong address. Unfortunately it seems something happened to the e-mail in transit. As Petri said, they had e-mail problems. They sent a new e-mail today, if you don't / didn't receive it, PM me and I'll send it to you myself.

Pesa, regarding their website, they do have a simple one now - www.soundform.nl. Please bear in mind that this is a very young company...

In any case, Petri, Jorma and Andy will receive their players tomorrow and / or during next week, so they'll be able to attest the service.

Best regards,

Afonso.

[pteittinen]

WSquared,

I'll have some pics on the web the day I get the player, rest assured :)

.petri.

[ZR]

Dear Music,

All the lines in the PAL frame will be put thru a "multi-tap" filter to reconstruct the new NTSC frame. Therefore no lines are actually dropped, they have just been sqeezed ; )

[keyser]

How many lines of picture info does a DVD player really output with a good quality pal DVD disk. DVD players don´t output 576 lines do they??

I remember that the resolution specs for the older dvd players were less than the newer ones, but I can´t remember the numbers.

[pesa]

afonso,
Thank's for the info. I have decided to take the leap of faith and order from them. I'll let you know how it works out.

Peter

[Burtz]

I heard today that the 963SA has landed in New Zealand.

I will get my hands on one tomorrow and I am very keen to try out PAL progressive on my HDTV (Panasonic TX47-P500h) which accepts 576p and 480p via component.

Does anyone know if the PAL progressive hacks and region free hacks for the European model are suitable for the Asia Pacific model? I presume this is the same model sold by Hivzone in Hong Kong, as our TV system is also PAL.

[ZR]

It is indeed the same model. For AP version, code is as follows:

"Play", "159 222 023 00", " play"

Remember, this will defeat your multi-region code.

[Burtz]

Thanks for the reply

So once I use the code to enable PAL progressive what code do I need to enter to make it region free again if the original region is 4?

[puddleduck]

Heya Guys

I just received my tracking info. from Soundform, and I'm expecting the package Tuesday or Wednesday.

I should be hooking this up to a brand new Panasonic AE-300 projector, so will be sure to report back :)

[pteittinen]

Well, my 963SA didn't arrive today, which is no big surprise as it was only shipped on Thursday... :(

.petri.

[soundman38]

Bummer, hope you get it soon, i am really interested in your opinions,
since you also, like me, used the 962sa.

Greetz M.

[jhonkanen]

Originally posted by pteittinen
Well, my 963SA didn't arrive today, which is no big surprise as it was only shipped on Thursday... :(

.petri.

Mine have arrived to the Country (according the tracking number i got) this morning and is under process in the Custom Dept. I dont think they'll deliver it to me today... I ordered it to my work address so they should deliver it faster ;)

[pteittinen]

What can I say... just another example of my typical luck.

.p.

[janisl]

Question about scart v.s. yuv.

The manual of my (dutch) dvd963sa states that if possible, one should
alway use scart, because that'll give the best picture.
Is that true? or is yuv better? or is it the same? I'm lost here.

Thanks in advance,

Janis

[paulz]

someone knows where I could find an adaptator with :
3 female rca inputs for yuv
5 rca female outputs (yuv + sh + sv) - no sub plug, please.
I would try the hdtv position on my 10ht with 963, by extracting the synchro, but not using only the green sync as it is yet.
Cheers,
Paulz

[ainfante]

Janis,

That question has been amply discussed. Here is my *personal* take on it:

Scart RGB is, potentially, closer to both the source (the output of the MPEG decoder is RGB) and the display (what you see on the display is RGB). However, it has caveats:

1. SCART is probably the worst connection ever invented. Keeping a true 75 ohm impedance matching on both connector and cabling is almost impossible; the pins don't make proper contact in most of the times. SCART is a good example of convenience over quality and good engineering.

2. RGB takes a lot of bandwidth. This, along with the fact that SCART connectors and cabling are poor and not properly matched makes it almost impossible not to loose a LOT of signal in the path.

3. A lot of modern DVD players, and, above all, displays are designed in a way they, in some point, do a RGB<->YUV conversion, mainly because in the US SCART does not exist. So it's quite possible that even if you are feeding your TV RGB, it is being translated into YUV and then back into RGB.

4. SCART RGB is always interlaced. So it makes the deinterlacer useless.

YPrPb, on the other hand uses Phono or, better yet, BNC connectors. They provide much better impedance matching, and, better yet, they allow you to use true 75 ohm coax cabling. The provide better contact. And usually both on the player and on the display side, everything is gold plated, avoiding oxidation. It also requires much less bandwidth, and, hence, it's less prone to loss anyway.

Internally, I have no doubts that RGB is a better way to transmit a signal. However, the moment you want to get it out of the player, YPrPb is a much more adequate means of transmitting it.

As an Electronics Engineer, I have no doubts that YPrPb is a much better designed standard. I can fully understand why the US has never adopted SCART and has, instead, adopted YPrPb.

Also, if SCART RGB is better, what's the point of including DCDi and DCC (both of which only work with YPrPb) and making such a fuss about it?

Knowing some people at Philips, I guess that there may have been one very simple reason for that statement: that it is a "legacy" statement, something that was put in when Philips DVD Players didn't have YPrPb outputs, so they were comparing with S-Video and Composite.

Best regards,

Afonso.

[ainfante]

Paulz,

You cannot separate YPrPb into YPrPb + HS + VS. That doesn't make any sense since the YPrPb format includes sync, period.

However, you CAN convert YPrPb into RGB + HS + VS. Your 10HT should be able to process that natively, which is good. However, I fail to understand why you'd want that. :)

I any case, those adapters exist, but they are expensive - between 200 Euros and 350 Euros depending on the brand. If you're still interested, PM me and I can tell you were to get them...

Best regards,

Afonso.

[HumanMedia]

Would the picture quality of this player be noticeably better on an interlaced setup, compared to say any of the Pioneer players? or would it only be noticeably superior when feeding a progressive scan signal?

What is its interlaced performance like?

[paulz]

Ainfante, first : thank you very much
second : I just remember that, on Native rate series modules (faroudja) also using the same or nearest FLI2310 chip, the signal is outputted by using 5 plugs... & on my 10ht, near the red, green & blue plugs are plugs for h & v sync... so I was thinking to myself that could perhaps have any action on picture quality ?
Of course, I'm not sure at all, but...

[ainfante]

Paulz,

The Faroudja FLI series inputs and processes RGB internally. So the modules you're talking about output RGB + H + V, not YPrPb... :) Unfortunately the 963SA does not have RGB+H+V outputs... :(

Best regards,

Afonso.

[Zippo]

ainfante:
RGB through SCART can be progressive. Didn't believe it at first myself but have heard this from a CRT-projector guy.

[ainfante]

Zippo,

I was talking specifically about the 963SA... :) RGB through SCART is interlaced only with the 963SA.

Progressive RGB through SCART is obviously possible. Technically, at least. But it is non-standard and therefore rarely implemented.

Best regards,

Afonso.

[paulz]

Please, other question for all specialists : I've been told that it is bad to plug simultaneous yuv and cvbs video outputs. Is it a hoax or the truth ?
cheers,
Paulz

[Zippo]

ainfante,

Yup I guess you're right. I checked back and it was the Harman Kardon DVD 25 that did this.

[ainfante]

Paulz,

It all depends on the quality of the video output stages. If everything is properly done (impedance matched, properly driven and isolated) of course not, you should be able to plug all outputs.

However, if the manufacturer decided to save money and/or space, things may not be that simple.

The best is definitely to try it out for yourself: try to plug in something to the Composite (CVBS) output (and remember to turn it on), as you have something else plugged into the YPrPb output (and turned on too), and check if, first turning off, then unplugging makes any difference on the other output. If it does, well, you have a crappy video output stage. :)

Remember to use proper cables for this test: and I mean proper 75 ohm cables with proper 75 ohm connectors. I cannot stress enough how much precise impedance matching is essential.

Best regards,

Afonso.

[paulz]

Ainfante, thanks again.
I will try it.
I have a digital multitester, how do I measure that the connector is truely 75 ohms ?

[ainfante]

Paulz,

Unfortunately, a digital multitester (at least not alone) won't help you measure this. The procedure is a lot more complicated than that. :) Usually you check the datasheet of the cable. :)

If the cable has a known brand (like QED, IXOS, Van den Hul, or even Profigold) and is branded as a Video cable, it should be properly matched, and you can check the manufacturer's site in case of doubt.

Best regards,

Afonso.

[puddleduck]

I thought 75 Ohm was more suited to audio.

Isn't video better using 50 ohm coax cabling?

[ainfante]

Puddleduck,

Nope. :)

Whatever you do, don't use 50 ohm cabling for anything audio or video. 50 ohm is for 10Base-2 (thin) Ethernet. :) Actually audio may tolerate it, but video doesn't. You need 75 ohm. If you don't believe me, just check the manual of any DVD Player, TV/Plasma screen/Projector, or the sites of the manufacturers I mentioned above. :)

Best regards,

Afonso.

[puddleduck]

sounds as if I've got my wires crossed somewhere (pun intended!)

[paulz]

return to that famous FLI2310 chip in 963sa... something new about 720p delivering ?
some ideas we can reflect together ? some hacking tried ? some new informations ?
Please, don't hurt me... this message was just to remember our dreamed aim... perhaps forgotten a little... nothing else !

[puddleduck]

I'm hoping this player will be able to do scaling too.

The AE-300 which I just bought has a higher resolution than 480, so for PAL-P I'd like to use this extra resolution.

[Lefreck]

Originally posted by Zippo
ainfante,

Yup I guess you're right. I checked back and it was the Harman Kardon DVD 25 that did this.
Nope, the DVD25 does progressive via YUV. Apparently the new Kiss 450 does Prog. Scan via Scart...

[pteittinen]

Originally posted by ainfante
Progressive RGB through SCART is obviously possible. Technically, at least. But it is non-standard and therefore rarely implemented.


Arcam DV27 has a secret menu where you can enable PAL progressive scan over Scart.

.petri.

[pteittinen]

Originally posted by paulz
return to that famous FLI2310 chip in 963sa... something new about 720p delivering ?
Judging by some of the information on this thread, I'd say it's damn near impossible for us to "hack" those higher resolutions out of this player. Someone adventurous might start inputting P-codes at random, but I fear it would be useless.

*sniff*

.petri.

[paulz]

pteittinen, My idea is that it's possible : when you order a native rate series, they ask you which resolution you want them to pre-programm (for my case, with a 10ht, it was 720p / 16:9hd. Ok, an external processor is not a simple chip, but I think to myself that would be programmed directly on the chip, isn't it ? Perhaps someone here knows a friend in Faroudja's laboratory who could help us ?
& effectively, trying p-codes at random could be dangerous for the player !

[MariuszP]

There are two possibilities:
1. 720p is included in firmware. In this case we can:
-wait for tip from well informed source,
-analyze firmware (unfortunately there is currently no firmware on the web),
-try all p-codes (like pteittinen suggested).

2. There is no 720p support in the firmware, so the options are:
-hardware solution-microcontroller which would reprogram 'on the fly' Faroudja chip and video encoder; this would require description of FLI22xx internal registers, which is not freely available :(
-software solution-firmware hacking. It's quite simple once you: get firmware out of the player, know how to modify it (how to generate proper checksums, etc.) and again have some info about FLI23xxx registers. Of course it would be very easy to do for Philips programmers-is there any good soul from Philips here ;)

BTW: What version of ADV73xx video encoder is in this player?

Regards

[fjollon]

My player was shipped this Thursday from Soundform. I haven’t gotten it yet. I just received the tracking number but I do not have a clue where I can check it. Anyone have the URL please?

[pteittinen]

Oh bloody hell. I just got an e-mail from Soundform: every single 963SA sent last week to Finland has been tracked and they are all in Finland...

except mine.

Soundform is now assuming my player has been lost in transit and is issuing a written complaint to the Dutch post.

Guess who's mightily pissed off right about now?

.petri.

[fjollon]

Got a new mail from Soundform. It was the site of the Swedish post office... Duh! Guess I am thick. ;)

[Frode]

Even if you have the firmware for say 720p that doesn't necessaryily mean that the DACs or even FLI board is designed for that kind of output. At any rate we do have one certain resource on this board that has messed with reprogramming the FLI2200 registers.. Mark? You up for a new challenge? ;)

Personally I need XGA output instead of 720p (and the chip is capable of it) so I hope someone makes a hack for that so that all I have to do is use a component->RGBHV transcoder.

[Halcy]

pteittinen,

patience young padawan :)

I once got a 2 day expedite delivery via UPS from USA (and I paid good money for it) and it took 1.5 days to Germany, stood there for a week and then stayed at the Finnish UPS storage for 12 days.

Total delivery time about three weeks and I paid for having it on my doorstep in two days.

A call to UPS office and a very polite question about the delay gave me the following answer:

"Dont ask me, I only work here."

That's a true story, btw.

Thats mail order for ya, mate >)

regards,
Halcy

[MariuszP]

Don't worry, DAC (actually Video Encoder ADV73xx) seems to be able to output everything except 1080p ;)

Since PAL progressive display devices are not so common, I agree it would be nice to have XGA output too.

[pteittinen]

Halcy,

my player was shipped one day earlier than everybody else's.

Everybody in the UK, Sweden, Denmark and Finland are getting their players tomorrow, except me. Kinda hard to be patient, knowing this. :|

It's possible the Helsinki post office leaves for Low Earth Orbit, come tomorrow morning.

.petri.

[Steve Siener]

Some good info on the capabilities of the FLI23XX chips from awhile back:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=141763

[paulz]

Mariuszp, Frode... ok there is no firmware for 963sa on the net for this moment, but there are for the 962sa !!
If they used the same logic, in first time we could see if the output is on software... and after find a way to extract it ?
http://www.euroservice.pfr.philips.com/assistance/dvd/sommairesoft.htm
it's in french.

[JCW]

So many post about the hacking of the 963sa but how about its performance? Any detial report about its video and audio performance??

[HumanMedia]

Yes please - feedback on audio and video performance especially compared to other players (and interlaced performance as well).

[chrisexv6]

Same here, the price of player is nice if it ever decides to show up in the US, otherwise the shipping cost might negate the "bargain" this player is, unless we have direct comparisons to popular models (but US models and abroad).

-Chris

[pteittinen]

All you, who live in either England, Sweden or Denmark, and bought a 963SA from Soundform:

did you receive your player today?

Finns didn't, you see. The players have been in the country since early Monday-morning, but the Finnish Postal Service has re-classified the Priority-class parcels as Economy-class parcels, and refuses to deliver them to the customers. Why? Because the parcels are now Economy-class - only Priority-class gets delivered!

And why did they downgrade the parcels from Priority to Economy? Because the parcels are to delivered C.O.D. (Cash On Delivery). That's their explanation. It's a rule they made and they're sticking to it.

So, instead of getting the player delivered to their homes, Finns need to wait a minimum of one extra day, after which they have to visit their local post office to claim the parcel. A parcel they paid to be delivered to their homes, at least one day earlier.

How idiotic can the Finnish Postal Service be?

Through all of this hubbub, Soundform has performed admirably - do keep in mind that none of the delays are their fault.

They've been pestering the Dutch Mail with tracking numbers for tracking information and have replied to all my whiney and pissed off e-mails in friendly and helpful tones. For quality of service, I give them an A+.

.petri.

[pling]

My 963SA arived the same day as soundman38, in the Netherlands indeed.

I unlocked it using a laptop with it's Irda Port and dos (6.2) boot floppy and some programm I found here:

http://home.hccnet.nl/r.de.haas/RC6/otherways.htm

Thank you for all the tips about this. I need a cable for my Philips cSmart projector (LCA5311) component to vga, so I have not seen something of it's progressive scan capabilities (And I'm still not sure whether I am going to see it on my projector, because it doesn't say anything about it's progressive scan capabilities besides that it supports hdtv ??).

I hooked it up to my lcd projector and tv via svhs and scart (I like svhs more than scart (somewhat chilly) on my tv, projector doesn't have that, so svhs only). The image is really great allready (very sharp).

The sound of ordinary CD's is great, very detailed.

The point of SACD (hearing only the demo sacd's) is still not clear to me. It sounds good, but CD's sound great too. I would like to know the experiences of others about this (and maybe other SACD's).

pling++

[pling]

Oh, and yeah, I upgraded from a Yamakawa 713... I really do not regret this :p. Far more better picture and really far more better sound...

[puddleduck]

Hey Guys

My 963SA from Soundform arrived :)

I'll start reporting back as soon as I've got things set-up :)#

[chrisexv6]

Is this player Macro free over the component outputs? Im trying to find a good player that I know will not cause the screen flicker Im getting which everyone Ive asked says is the fault of Macrovision.

Thanks!!!
-Chris

[puddleduck]

First thing to note is the detachable power cable, so you can use any standard PC / kettle cable etc.

I got two manuals for some reason. A couple of SACDs were also thrown in, as well as a cheapy SCART and some cheapy cabling.

The remote looks nice - first impressions on the appearance of the 963SA - looks fine, bit understated, not sure how the silver will go with my gold... :)

More to follow....

[leobag]

puddleduck,

Quick off topic questions:

Where do you live? I see you have the gold Denon receiver, I am trying to find those in the US. Also, what piece of equipment is under your receiver?

Thanks,
leo

[jhonkanen]

puddleduck, thank you for the pictures! As i didn't receive my player today (as pteittinen already told the situation), i'm very interested to see any pictures you might have. Any change to open the player and taking few pictures from the components?

[pteittinen]

Yes, some pics of the player's insides would be nice!

I'll be posting some pics of the components tomorrow anyway, though.

.petri.

[puddleduck]

Might open it up, will need some beers for some courage first :) Not sure I'm brave enough though...!!

leobag - I live in Cambridge, England. The piece of kit you refer to is a REL Q50 subwoofer. The AMP is a Denon 3801.

BTW its definately multi-region out-of-the-box. I just played Red Dwarf (R2) followed by The Others (R1).

Gonna try SACD now, can't do much with picture quality until my AE-300 projector arrives (tomorrow, fingers crossed)

[ainfante]

Leo,

Only way you'll get a Gold receiver, or DVD player, from Denon is if you import it from Europe (and then get a REALLY good step-up transfomer). No way you'll find it in the US, quite simply because they don't make them in Gold for the US market.

Best regards,

Afonso.

[leobag]

Originally posted by puddleduck
leobag - I live in Cambridge, England. The piece of kit you refer to is a REL Q50 subwoofer. The AMP is a Denon 3801.

Actually I was talking about the the unit below your Denon... looks like a disc player... whats that?

Thanks,
Leo

[puddleduck]

leobag - The player is a Pioneer 737