View Full Version : from DVD-ROM to Dscaler
Hi,
Will have some conclusion after tonight viewing! :)
regards,
Li On
Hi,
Ok, the wait is over! It ROCKS! :)
- RealMagic Xcard (~$100)
- cheap NO tuner Bt878 capture card (<$30)
- latest version Dscaler (4.1.x) ($0)
Thanks to all the help from CKL and others, I watched DVD from DVD-ROM to Dscaler for 2 days now. Overall the picture is WONDERFUL!
The Xcard is known for it's weak analog video output. I never test that and won't test that.
The Xcard has a internal pin which suppose to connect to some display card VPE port to pass the digital video overlay.
It seems the Xcard internal digital video output has a standard Bt656 format.
The Bt878 has a standard Bt656 digital video input on the chip but most cheap cheap capture card never use it (or is it connected to the tuner part?).
Get a NO tuner capture card using the Bt878 (NOT Bt848) chip. Find the Bt656 (PDI - panallel digital interface!) input pins (8 pins data and 1 pin clock) on the Bt878. Add a pin socket on the capture card and connect to the Bt878 PDI pins.
Find the matching Bt656 9 pins on the Xcard and make a ribbon cable to connect the 2 cards.
In Dscaler, select the Bt878 as a Silk SDI input card. And select the SDI input.
Start Xcard player and plays a DVD (from DVD-ROM of course). The Dscaler will get the picture!
WoW!
Use the Xcard remote to control the playback. Use DVDRegionKiller to fix Xcard region lock. The Xcard plays and passes both NTSC and PAL to Dscaler and Dscaler will auto detect the format.
This setup is like a external modded SDI DVD player to a SDI input card (Silk or Holo3D. But of course WAY cheaper! And a total all-in-one solution too.
The Xcard Sigma MPEG2 decoder has the chroma bug. In term of chroma bug, it's much worse than a Panasonic RP82 with a SDI modded but slightly better than a Pioneer DVD player. Anyway it's not that bad really.
The Xcard has the highest resolution picture IMO, even more detail than the RP82 and a Pioneer 858 with SDI modded. Xcard color is also very natural and smooth (besides the chroma bug issue). Layer detail is excellent.
Xcard picture feels VERY 3D and stable, and most important, it has the least Edge Enhancement compared to both RP82 and the 858 via SDI. The Xcard has much LESS EE.
Overall I rate the Xcard digital video output as good as an external RP82 with SDI out. The RP82 has no chroma bug but the Xcard has no EE! And I think the Xcard gives a even more refine picture.
Combine with the wonderful processing of the latest Dscaler, it's a new chapter in HTPC history!
Forget those lousy software DVD players. The latest and greatest is from DVD-ROM to Dscaler!
Thanks for all the help! :)
regards,
Li On
mulveling
06-08-03, 11:00 PM
This sounds cool, I really want to try it. Right now I'm using an rp91 into a flyvideo2000 + dscaler 4.1.6 and I find the picture noticeably better than the software players for video source dvds, and comparable for film dvds. The Dscaler interface is immensely more usable than the crappy software players (I hate them all, they are really terrible products for the money), there is less chance for dscaler to screw up since no mpeg decoding/dvd navigation, and I watch mostly video-source dvds anyways. Your setup sounds like it might be even better. Though it could be a bit of work to make the connection - will there be a mini-tutorial on the process anytime soon? Thanks for being on the frontier of another great application for dscaler!
Mike U.
That is a great finding! Thanks Li On.
Atman
pdermody
06-08-03, 11:47 PM
laf, oddly enough i was thinking about this the other day as i wait for the cables to come out to do this with the H3D.
-pd
Hi,
Actually I really did nothing besides enjoying the final picture! All the work was done by CKL!
I'm sure it will be a hit if someone can put it into a package for around $300 IMO.
For now this is my primary viewing setup until the next best thing! :)
regards,
Li On
Namlemez
06-09-03, 12:32 AM
Do you have a pin layout / diagram of how you wired it up? Maybe just some pictures?
For those of us who aren't EE-inclined... :)
Tom Strade
06-09-03, 12:55 AM
Originally posted by Li On
Hi,
Ok, the wait is over! It ROCKS! :)
- RealMagic Xcard (~$100)
- cheap NO tuner Bt878 capture card (<$30)
- latest version Dscaler (4.1.x) ($0)
Thanks to all the help from CKL and others, I watched DVD from DVD-ROM to Dscaler for 2 days now. Overall the picture is WONDERFUL!
The Xcard is known for it's weak analog video output. I never test that and won't test that.
The Xcard has a internal pin which suppose to connect to some display card VPE port to pass the digital video overlay.
It seems the Xcard internal digital video output has a standard Bt656 format.
The Bt878 has a standard Bt656 digital video input on the chip but most cheap cheap capture card never use it (or is it connected to the tuner part?).
Get a NO tuner capture card using the Bt878 (NOT Bt848) chip. Find the Bt656 (PDI - panallel digital interface!) input pins (8 pins data and 1 pin clock) on the Bt878. Add a pin socket on the capture card and connect to the Bt878 PDI pins.
Find the matching Bt656 9 pins on the Xcard and make a ribbon cable to connect the 2 cards.
In Dscaler, select the Bt878 as a Silk SDI input card. And select the SDI input.
Start Xcard player and plays a DVD (from DVD-ROM of course). The Dscaler will get the picture!
WoW!
Use the Xcard remote to control the playback. Use DVDRegionKiller to fix Xcard region lock. The Xcard plays and passes both NTSC and PAL to Dscaler and Dscaler will auto detect the format.
This setup is like a external modded SDI DVD player to a SDI input card (Silk or Holo3D. But of course WAY cheaper! And a total all-in-one solution too.
The Xcard Sigma MPEG2 decoder has the chroma bug. In term of chroma bug, it's much worse than a Panasonic RP82 with a SDI modded but slightly better than a Pioneer DVD player. Anyway it's not that bad really.
The Xcard has the highest resolution picture IMO, even more detail than the RP82 and a Pioneer 858 with SDI modded. Xcard color is also very natural and smooth (besides the chroma bug issue). Layer detail is excellent.
Xcard picture feels VERY 3D and stable, and most important, it has the least Edge Enhancement compared to both RP82 and the 858 via SDI. The Xcard has much LESS EE.
Overall I rate the Xcard digital video output as good as an external RP82 with SDI out. The RP82 has no chroma bug but the Xcard has no EE! And I think the Xcard gives a even more refine picture.
Combine with the wonderful processing of the latest Dscaler, it's a new chapter in HTPC history!
Forget those lousy software DVD players. The latest and greatest is from DVD-ROM to Dscaler!
Thanks for all the help! :)
regards,
Li On
I was wondering when somebody would try this...nice job Li On. I was surprised how good the XCard looked when I did this with H3D months ago.
BTW - you do realize both the H3D and H3D-II will inherently mask that pesky chroma bug? ;)
DScaler deinterlacers and filters updated 10 days ago:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=2279041
Pictures:
http://www.avbuzz.com/bbs/av/diss.php?id=75168
could someone post a close up of the wiring connections needed
Li On,
I've installed Atman's CLC021 board (thanks Atman) into my RP82. Now my RP82 has both PDI and SDI output. RP82 SDI to H3D has no serious edge enhancement as we saw on Sat night. There might be something wrong at that setup.
Xcard's digital output is very good. Its analogue output is unacceptable. If H3D can correct its chroma bug, then it will be a very good news. I will compare X-card PDI with RP82 PDI later.
By the way, thanks a lot Morpheus for lending the X-card for testing.
Mad Chemist
06-09-03, 02:04 AM
Figures. I just spent a bunch of $$$ for a SDI mooded XP30 a couple of weeks ago. Of well, at least I can use all my CPU for Dscaler.
Originally posted by RTK
could someone post a close up of the wiring connections needed
Ditto for me, I am interested.
mulveling
06-09-03, 03:17 AM
Originally posted by Tom Strade
I was wondering when somebody would try this...nice job Li On. I was surprised how good the XCard looked when I did this with H3D months ago.
BTW - you do realize both the H3D and H3D-II will inherently mask that pesky chroma bug? ;)
Isn't this because the Faroudja chip does has a vertical low-pass chroma filter, or is there something else the chip does that additionally reduces the chroma bug effect? Recent versions of Dscaler implement this kind of chroma filter, and though it eats up some processor, it does a great job eliminating the chroma bug caused by the motion adaptive deinterlacing methods. Don't know if it eliminates the mpeg decoder bug since I'm using a bug-free rp91.
Mike U.
Hi CKL,
Will you compare the X-card + cheap TV capture card with the X-card + Holo3d? It will be very interesting to compare the performance difference because the price difference of these two solutions is so HUGE.
There is a "Poor man's SDI" thread at the Video Processors forum. This X-card + cheap TV capture card (<$200) should be called "Poor man's PDI".
Thanks for your effort.
Atman
With this setup. I still need a good graphic card like an ATI Radeon to handle the scaling rite?
Brian Hampton
06-09-03, 10:46 AM
Hey,
Could this be the most significant post of the year?
This is great news and I'm very impressed you detailed it's process instead of trying to make a bussiness out of it.
Perhaps someone will start selling the ribbon cable needed to make this easier to do.
-brian
tbdombrosky
06-09-03, 10:55 AM
Is this just a cable or is a modified bt878 or xcard needed?
Li On
There is no interaction between the ccir 656 pins and the tuner so there is no need to chose a card without a tuner. Also the ability to do this with a cx2388x card could be added very easily so that would mean even more choice in terms of base cards.
Basically you're looking for any widely available card that has easy to solder access to the relevant pins or ideally an existing header. I think the falcon cards do have existing header access to the right pins and a non solder cable could be made up for these users.
Also you might be interested to know that the latest MoComp2 has built in chroma smoothing similar to what the FLI2200 does. I plan to add this as an option to the film modes too. It does seem to help mask chroma problems.
John
Hi,
NO mod on the Xcard. The Bt878 capture card needs a mod and a matching ribbon cable to the Xcard.
And MAGIC happens! Just 1 click in the Dscaler, the Xcard Chroma Bug FIXED! Yesterday the Xcard had Chroma Bug. Now the Panasonic RP82 has Chroma Bug! Enable Chroma filter in Dscaler makes the Xcard Red looks more smooth and solid than the RP82! In addition, the whole Xcard picture looks sharper and higher resolution (is there an end for DVD PQ improvment?).
1 click in Dscaler and now the Xcard beats the RP82 hand down in every aspects, IMO!
THANKS Dscaler! :)
regards,
Li On
geofstro
06-09-03, 12:13 PM
This is a great discovery! I only just discovered the joys of dscaler this weekend. I brought a Pinnacle PTV Rave and ran my old Sony DVP7000 into it via s-video.
I was able to tweak a pretty good pq out of this with dscaler; but when compared with the DVD rom drive using a software DVD player via DVI to the PJ the pq was still, understandably, better in some ways.
Today I was wishing there was a way to route the DVD ROM via dscaler to combine the best of both worlds; but thought I was only fantasizing 'till I came across this post.
Your instructions are very clear; but some of us obviously need some more info to pin this down (if you'll forgive the pun).
For example you seem adamant that the capture card must be one without a tuner. Does that mean I wouldn't be able to do this with the Pinnacle card I just brought?
If so, could you let us know exactly which capture card you are using? Here in Europe the choices are sometimes limited. I'll try to track down an xcard as well or have one shipped from the states if possible.
Some pictures showing how you connected the capture card to the xcard would also be great!
mulveling
06-09-03, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by JohnAd
Li On
Also you might be interested to know that the latest MoComp2 has built in chroma smoothing similar to what the FLI2200 does. I plan to add this as an option to the film modes too. It does seem to help mask chroma problems.
John
Hi John, besides the chroma smoother can you give a brief description on the difference between TomsMoComp and MoComp2? And why does MoComp2 default to 0 search effort? Doesn't that just reduce it to a simple bob algorithm? Right now I am running TomsMoComp w/ search effort 5 and the chroma filter (which comes close to the limit of my P4 2.26), and was wondering if I would be better off with MoComp2.
Thanks for working on Dscaler!
Mike U.
From JohnAd:
Basically you're looking for any widely available card that has easy to solder access to the relevant pins or ideally an existing header. I think the falcon cards do have existing header access to the right pins and a non solder cable could be made up for these users.
Well, I have a Falcon, if you need a beta tester... ;)
Mad Chemist
06-09-03, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by Li On
Enable Chroma filter in Dscaler makes the Xcard Red looks more smooth and solid than the RP82! In addition, the whole Xcard picture looks sharper and higher resolution (is there an end for DVD PQ improvment?).
1 click in Dscaler and now the Xcard beats the RP82 hand down in every aspects, IMO!
I'm a little confused. Are you saying the Xcard beats a SDI connected RP82? Also, how are the slow pans with the Xcard. Are they as smooth as with the RP82?
Hi Greg,
PERFECT, ok? :)
regards,
Li On
Gnollo
Does the falcon have a set of exposed pins? Could you post a snapshot of the board?
Thinking about it some more I may have been confusing the falcon and the osprey (I'm not much of a bird of prey spotter). I think dan used the osprey as the base for the sdi silk but I'm not sure. I'm not at all sure about the falcon.
All I'm saying is that there are some cards out there with headers, for these cards no soldering is required as there are many people (me included) who aren't that ht with a soldering iron.
John
Mike
MoComp2 is a new method that I've been playing around with for a while and it curerntly doesn't do any MoComp at all it's just a fairly diagonal interpolating motion compensated method now with built in chroma smoothing. The version that shipped with 4.1.6 has many bugs including one shared with TomsMoComp that I recently fixed. I'll be creating a full new DScaler package soon but in the mean time try out the dlls posted by bbq above. I suspect that TomsMoComp still has a smoother picture but MoComp2 should be very close and somewhat faster allowing room for the chroma and other filters.
If anyone want to play with the new methods independant review are always interesting.
John
The SDI silk has the pins on the main baord, where can I get the cable to try this out? Would a floppy cable do it?
This is the card the SDI Silk is based on.
http://www.sasem.com/english/prod/main3.html
(the 4 channel card)
Jeff
Thanks, that does indeed look like the right one.
In terms of the cable I imagine there will have to be special cables made up for each receiving card. It's just a question of finding what pins to match up and then getting someone who can make up the cables to make one up.
Hopefully Roland, Gordon or someone can get the cables made up in the UK for say a tenner and we can try this way out.
John
P.s. have you tried the new video plug-ins posted above, any thoughts?
John,
I had a quick look at tomsmocomp2 but it didn't look as good as regular tomsmocomp so I soon gave up. I didn't realise it was a resource friendly version.
I've just ordered an XCard to try this out. I'll also try a floppy cable since its a perfect fit (at least on the SDI Silk side).
Jeff
Jeff
Thanks, just to check you're talking about the versions posted above and not the 4.1.6 versions. Could you try and describe the differences a bit more.
I'd be very careful trying the floppy connector, I'd be very suprised if the pins will line up and there is a danger in connecting the wrong things together. We really need the pin outs for the various boards we're talking about.
John
John,
I haven't used DScaler much lately (football season over), I think I am running 4.1.6. Is there a newer one for me to try?
John was talking about these files:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=2279041
Yep try out the files above. Hopefully you'll notice improvements in both TomsMoComp and dramatic improvements since 4.1.6 in MoComp2 (which should really be called JohnsNonMoComp ;) ) but I'd be interested in your views on performance of each one in say the Solovakia game on Wednesday.
John
stanger89
06-09-03, 05:48 PM
Hi all,
Anybody know of any capture cards you can do this with? Just curious I've searched the web but can't find anything. Also are you talking about the "Digital Video Out" header on the Xcard? and a final question is there any way to get multichannel analog audio out with this (other than running stereo out -> Revo and CSII-ing it?
Thanks
bonfigleo
06-09-03, 06:31 PM
Are these built with some debugging version of msvcrt? DScaler now complains when I start it up that it is missing something.
Thanks,
Matt
Here is the secret. I use Winfast VC-100XP which is using 878A chip to capture BT656 signal. The pin connections are as follows:
878A X-card 26Pin DVP BT656
86 1 P0
85 3 P1
84 5 P2
83 7 P3
82 9 P4
81 11 P5
80 13 P6
79 15 P7
66 17 CLK
Enjoy the very good picture quality at a much lower cost.
DArthur
06-09-03, 07:48 PM
Anyone willing to try this with an X-Capture card? I would love to if I had some really complete, detailed instructions/pictures.
Darryl
pdermody
06-10-03, 12:38 AM
Hmm I may have to see what I can do with this old KBK Zoltrix card once I get my H3DII.
What is everyone doing about deinterlacing? I have played around with TomsMoComp/Strange Bob and now MoComp2 and its just not the same as DCDi, albeit MoComp2 is pretty damn good for the most part (not scientific comparisons, just eyeballing while watching misc channels on the dish)
If anyone is really anti self modding, there is always the option of picking up either a refurbished H3DI or the upcoming H3DII card. Both cards will allow you to use the DVP output from the Xcard without having to solder anything (just have to order custom ribbon cable), giving you DCDi - or the various DScaler methods (at least with the H3DI card, I dont know about the H3DII card yet)
-pd
vrindner
06-10-03, 01:24 AM
Can anyone reply about PQ differences between this combo and TheaterTek 1.5 on film dvds?
Hi,
Believe it or not, last night I watched most of the Star War episode 1 DVD and the picture looked decent! Amazing! :)
regards,
Li On
LarsTokyo
06-10-03, 03:04 AM
Could you guys please explain a little more in detail about digital output from Xcard?
I would also like CLK to explain the pinout a little better, please.
Edit; I don't understand if your watching on the monitor or on a projector?
From what I read about that card, it doesn't have any output. At least not by looking at the PDF document on Leadtek's website.
geofstro
06-10-03, 03:59 AM
It's still not clear to me from reading these posts whether any soldering is required or whether you just need to get a custom cable made up. Or Does that depend on the capture card?
Also, does anybody know how the various capture cards differ in terms of the initial resolution they can capture at. The Leadtek Winfast VC-100XP seems to be limited to 640X480. Is this fairly standard or can other cards, such as the Holo3D better this?
Additionally the Leadtek seems to be billed as a TV tuner card and I thought this was a no no, so I'm still a bit confused.
Steve_T
06-10-03, 06:00 AM
Originally posted by JohnAd
Li On
There is no interaction between the ccir 656 pins and the tuner so there is no need to chose a card without a tuner. Also the ability to do this with a cx2388x card could be added very easily so that would mean even more choice in terms of base cards.
Basically you're looking for any widely available card that has easy to solder access to the relevant pins or ideally an existing header. I think the falcon cards do have existing header access to the right pins and a non solder cable could be made up for these users.
Also you might be interested to know that the latest MoComp2 has built in chroma smoothing similar to what the FLI2200 does. I plan to add this as an option to the film modes too. It does seem to help mask chroma problems.
John
John,
Did you manage to obtain the pin outs of the cx23881 chip while supporting it in dscaler?
If so what pins are the ccir 656 inputs for connecting the ribbon cable to?
I've done a google but came up with nothing and connexant support is non-existant.
Any help appreciated from those in the know.
Steve.
geofstro
06-10-03, 06:30 AM
My apologies. I obviously didn't read the previous posts clearly enough.
I definitely want to avoid soldering the pins. Does anyone know how to determine which capture cards have existing header access and what the pin connections should be for these, so I could get a custom cable made up?
Pin 122 is the clock and then 123->130 are the data pins MSB->LSB
John
Steve_T
06-10-03, 07:12 AM
Your a star John, Thanks.
Now i'll try and count the pins on each side of the chip without going cross-eyed.
I bet know body knows how many pins there are on each side of the CX23881 chip. :D
Thinking about it some more I think it is probably best to make sure the card doesn't have a tuner for bt8x8 cards and probably safer for do the smae for he cx2388x cards. I forgot that the GPIO pins used for the digital input aer sometimes used to do other stuff on cards with anything fancy on them.
John
AndrewPC
06-10-03, 07:52 AM
I have a pixelview play tv pro which has a bt878 on it, not an 878a. I have just checked the datasheet and it appears to have the right ccir 656 conection on it through GPIO pins 00-07. Is this compatible, can it be activated from dscaler?
This card also has a tuner.....but Im thinking about trying it. WHat would be interfering with those pins?
Andrew`
BT656 is a 8-bit parallel digital signal. That's why I call it PDI. Any capture/TV tuner card using the chip can accept BT656 can be used for this purpose. You just need to connect 8 wires (P0, P1, P2, P3, P4, P5, P6, P7) and one clock wire (CLK) to the aforesaid X-card pins. Then select the hardware at Dscaler to be SDIsilk 100 (if you use 878/878A capture card) or H3D (if you used CX2388x capture card). After running Xcard software, you will see the picture after selecting SDI input at Dscaler.
geofstro
06-10-03, 09:48 AM
That's great CKL; but unfortunately I lack the confidence to locate the correct pins on each of these cards and solder the wires in all the right places.
i, for one, could use some pretty pictures to help identify all this. Presumably no soldering is required on the xcard, since the chip has a pin header, right? So it's just a question of having a ribbon cable made up that can slide onto the appropriate pins.
And it seems the situation is the same for some capture cards which also make the pins available on a header; but for others it seems that soldering would be required.
Sorry to be a pain; but unless I see this on a diagram with some further explanations, I'm not going to be able to join in the fun.
AndrewPC
06-10-03, 10:00 AM
Ok, after further checking, it seems my card does have an 878A on it. Which is good, but the pins are tiny as well hehe....
geofstro, If you have a bt878 based card, download the data sheet from conexant web page. This will show you all the pins. you need to find the ones numbered by CKL. Then look on your board. My chip is numbered at each end of the row of pins, so its only a matter of counting along. Where you solder them is another question tho, my pcb work is somewhat limited, hehe..
Andrew
geofstro
06-10-03, 10:15 AM
Thanks Andrew. I had no idea where to get the datasheets from.
I downloaded the appropriate pdf from there and feel a lot happier now I have some pics to look at.
I guess i'm just very visually oriented :)
Brian Hampton
06-10-03, 10:24 AM
Li On,
Quote: "Believe it or not, last night I watched most of the Star War episode 1 DVD and the picture looked decent! Amazing!"
ok, I was interested until I read this. If Dscaler is masking the Edge Enhancement then...I'll stick with software decoding. I want what's on the DVD, not just a pretty picture.
Still, I'll stick to my theory that this is the post of the year and I do think it represents a new chapter in HTPC history.
-Brian
Is the Xcard the only card option or will any of the other (older) REALMagic MPEG decoder cards work?
geofstro
06-10-03, 10:42 AM
I've just learnt that if it has to be a BT878 based card my Pinnacle PCTV rave doesn't qualify, since it's based on the 848.
Some of you might find this page, http://vgr.com/visionary/tvcards.shtml useful. Whilst not an exhaustive list, I imagine, at least it does show a number of cards that are based on the BT878
geofstro
06-10-03, 11:19 AM
I posted that a little too quickly. A better guide is here: http://www.dvdrhelp.com/comptvcards.htm
Seems my card qualifies afterall. I'll have to take it out at the weekend and check for certain.
848 doesn't accept BT656. Winfast VC-100XP at USD27 is the best choice. You can find the pin numbers at the corner of the 878 chip on PCB.
Any MPEG2 decoder card having BT656/601 digital video port will be the candidate for this DIY project.
Steve_T
06-10-03, 01:51 PM
Li on and CKL,
Have you tried DVI from HTPC into DVI projector with software player, if so how do you compare picture quality to PDI RP82 into PDI xcard/dscaler?
Steve.
I wonder if "VMI/LBP/AMC/VIP CONNECTOR" on Hollywood+ is the same.....unfortunately there are no pins at all..... just 26 "positions" (i don't know if it is the right word) with the first one on the upper left marked...
....any ideas ??? :confused:
pdermody
06-10-03, 04:04 PM
In anyone else cares to see what the mod looks like on the capture card. This image was lifted from avbuzz.com and originally posted by CKL:
http://www.gnusoft.com/avs/pdimod.jpg
-pd
KBK, can you do this to the cards relatively easily or are you tooo busy with all of your other stuff??????
Rick Guynn
06-10-03, 05:47 PM
Challenging peice of soldering :)
****dumb question alert****dumb question alert****dumb question alert****
I think I follow what you are doing here, but what I am missing is why passing SDI to Dscaler would give better results than a good software player with good filters? I just don't really understand the theory. Surely it remains in purely the digital domain in both cases? Or is it just that dscaler filters are better than ffdshow, etc.?
Thanks.
The problem of software DVDP is the deinterlacing. It has no problem for good encoded 24/30fps film source but it can't handle video source or bad encoded DVD. Dscaler is much better. It can auto detect the deinterlace mode. Even it selects the wrong mode, we can manually choose the right one.
Hardware MPEG decoder is smoother than software decoder (panning and decompressing). Hardware decoder also has less "snowing" noise comparing software one.
Tapping BT656 to Dscaler or H3D is more straight and simple. It doesn't need to convert to SDI and reverse to BT656. You can get these benefits no matter you are using VGA or DVI connection to your projector.
We've compared PDI with SDI using two RP82 and two 878A capture cards. PDI has better definition and punch. Here is the thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=262645
For older decoder cards, could you get the CCIR-656 from the input pins to the NTSC/PAL encoder chip (the ADV7170/1 on the Hollywood+ or the bt865 on the Creative DXR3 and older Cinemaster C cards)? At less than $20, they would make the dirt-poor man’s PDI. You would now need soldering on both the decoder and capture cards, but the pins on the encoder chips are nice and big compared to the 878a.
One thing missing is I thought that most modern MPEG decoders output a 10 bit video signal. Most if not all of the implementations I see here only transmit the eight most significant bits, somehow I thought the remaining two still had some worthwhile data because of the upsample methods used by these decoders. Am I wrong?
Since there's a lot of interest in this subject I will try and write a basic guide about this topic and post it up on my website. Hopefully it'll be ready by the end of the weekend. Even though I own neither card I think I can do a pretty good job like my Dish guide.
I have a question for CKL. Whats the pinout for the X-Card cause there doesn't seem to be any numbers on the picture of the board I have, just a white triange in the top left corner of the header pointing to a pin.
Is it this (with writing on PCB facing up):
1 3 5 7 .... 23 25
2 4 6 8 .... 24 26
or something else?
Thanks
Hi JeffDM,
You're wrong. DVD is only 8bits. The 10bits is the DAC (which is the display card in HTPC). Some standalone DVD player claim even a 14bits DAC. But high bits DAC alone don't make a great picture.
SDI is a 10bits interface. The 2 LSB bits are not used for DVD transmission.
regards,
Li On
Hey tom Strade how about a connector or adapter on the HD3 to connect this xcard pdi into the Holo 3d simply that would enable selling a few of the old cards
Thanks Rick
pdermody
06-10-03, 11:52 PM
Rickd,
Its already there, and cables will be available soon from the distributors (or should be as far as I know)
-pd
Rickd,
Tom has been actively working on bt-656 cables for awhile. The plan is to connect the X-card and the H3D I or II. Both already have the header for the cable. He hopes to have them next week (or so). I'll let him address the particulars.
Scott
Tom Strade
06-11-03, 12:02 AM
The first 100 cables are gone already to H3D-II trade-up customers. I would imagine we could have more made within 1 to 2 weeks.
OK, Tom, we're game on that.
Hi,
Dscaler CPU usage between DVD-ROM playback and harddisk VOB/MPG files playback:
My system: Asus P4PE, P4 2.4B overclocked to 3G (166x18), 512M DDR333 ram, Seagate 120G, Pioneer 12x slot-in DVD-ROM, original Radeon 8500 64M, WinXPSP1, DX9. Dscaler 4.1.5 with Chroma filter added.
Dscaler "sleep interval" at 1 in order to check the actual CPU usage. Sharpness and Chroma filters enabled.
Tested clip content 24fps film source. Dscaler "auto 3/2 pulldown" enabled and detected. "JudderTerminator" enabled as default.
Clip playbacks on DVD, CPU usage is around 5%-10%.
"JudderTerminator" disabled. CPU usage stays BELOW 5%!
The same clip ripped to harddisk as a VOB file.
"JudderTerminator" disabled. CPU usage is around 15-25%.
"JudderTerminator" enabled. CPU usage stays ABOVE 90% from 91% to 99%! Playback is still smooth, no stutter.
When "sleep interval" is at 0 which means Dscaler "fake" a 100% CPU usage, the harddisk VOB playback stutter BADLY! While the same clip plays perfectly smooth on DVD-ROM.
Harddisk VOB playback is perfectly smooth if "JudderTerminator" is disabled while "sleep interval" is at 0. CPU usage still read 100% but no stutter in playback.
On my 3G machine, for now I set "sleep interval" to 1 and keep the "JudderTerminator" enabled. But I doubt if other lower power HTPC can handle "JudderTerminator" while in file playback mode. I'll also check more carefully if disable "JudderTerminator" will introduce micro-stutter or not.
John, do you know why the "JudderTerminator" plays a HUGE CPU usage in the Xcard->Dscaler setup?
Thanks in advance. :)
regards,
Li On
PS: get the Xcard latest driver and application from the Sigma site.
sorry folks I have already tested XCARD connection to HD3D and compared it to my DENON 3300 chroma bug free Panasonic DVD that renders fantastic blacks and colors.
The XCARD is not equalling the picture quality nor does it sound any good
as the Denon. The differences are audible and whatchable. So if you want the cheapest the XCARD is ok but if you have invested already a considerable amount of money in your HT I would go for a Holocard instead and not limit my system by going the cheapest way possible.
Will DScaler5 support Janus-based HDTV tuner cards? All of them should have CCIR656 inputs and also VIP ports as well.
I wish that X-Card and DScaler could interact internally without any cables between the decoder and capture card. Maybe DScaler5 will handle that in the future.
Did anyone insert some DirectShow filters of X-Card in GraphEdit and try to throw ffdshow into the filtergraph? Do you think the video output of X-Card can be connected to Overlay Mixer instead of its own video renderer? Thank you.
This is great information! I just ordered an Xcard to give it a try. I'll be using the Holo3D I with this confige. My question is (unless I missed it), does anyone have the pinout for the xcard AND the holo3d? There doesn't seem to be a ready supply of the custom cables, so I thought I run down to ratshack and make one.
Thanks in advance
Originally posted by tachi
1 3 5 7 .... 23 25
2 4 6 8 .... 24 26
Correct!
H3D plus Xcard may not be the same as 878 capture card plus Xcard. I'm not talking the difference in deinterlacing by Dscaler and FLI2200 but the path where the BT656 passing through.
pdermody
06-11-03, 11:31 AM
Spatz,
Audible difference? Is the card modifying the bits in SPDIF pass through?
-pd
Different spdif solutions vary in sound quality even when used to simply passthrough DD and DTS, why? because they are still affected by jitter.
pdermody
06-11-03, 02:02 PM
shrug, I have an Xcard in use off and on for testing and I never noticed any sound degradation compared to the RP82. Is there any inexpensive way to measure said jitter? I remember seeing some really expensive hardware to do so, which is obivouslly out of my range for just curiosity sake.
-pd
Originally posted by JohnAd
Yep try out the files above. Hopefully you'll notice improvements in both TomsMoComp and dramatic improvements since 4.1.6 in MoComp2 (which should really be called JohnsNonMoComp ;) ) but I'd be interested in your views on performance of each one in say the Solovakia game on Wednesday.
John
I thought it worked pretty good, I wacked the search value upto something like 15. It appears a bit more composed than Tomsmocomp and is caught out less i.e. the motion compensation appears to be working better. Vast improvement on JohnsNonMoComp ;)
Hi,
I'm watching DVD playback in Dscaler using GraphEdit!
The Xcard comes with it's own standard directshow MPEG2 Splitter and MPEG2 Hardware Decoder. I guess anything is possible such as ffdshow, ZoomPlayer etc. One can even connect other WinDVD/PowerDVD audio filter to the Xcard filter and use it's onboard SPDIF out!
:)
regards,
Li On
Li On,
One more silly question, would it be possible to use the Xcard for only hardware decoding of the video, but send the audio to the Revo via WinDVD's audio filter for internal decoding?
Thanks,
Nick
Hi,
Yes, I think that possible using the Xcard directshow filter!
regards,
Li On
Great, now all we need is the simple, idiots guide for: Zoomplayer to Xcard to ffdshow to 878A capture card to Dscaler to Windvd audio filter.
NickB
geofstro
06-12-03, 04:03 AM
If a cable can be supplied to connect the xcard to the Holo3D card, sans soldering, I might well be interested in one of the refurbished Holo3D's, since I don't have an SDI modified DVD player and am planning to use my HTPC for DVD playback.
I do get a bit confused though as to what exactly the Holo3D provides over dscaler. There seems to be some overlap between the two.
I'm attracted to the Holo3D since so many of you here rate it highly and I respect your opinions; but I'd appreciate some clarification.
I would be using it with my recently aquired JVC SX21.
BTW I believe any PC audio output will suffer from jitter worse than a good quality standalone DVD player or CD transport. I have a GW labs DSP which I plan to use between my HTPC and DAC to cure the problem:
See http://www.centasound.com/products/index.html
Thanks
geoff
Jeff
Thanks for taking a look, I think that matches my thoughts, much better but a few too many errors still. btw Search effort doesn't do anything at the mo, I should get round to adding some other adjustable things at some point but at the moment there are no settings to play with.
Li On
JudderTerminator does what it does by basically taking over the CPU and waiting till exactly the right moment before calling flip. This behaviour is amajor cause of support questions and obviously causes problems when you need to use the CPU for other things like this but it is the best way I'ev found so far of controlling the flip timings. I'll almost certainly be revisiting this at some point as I think with new cards you can use a flip in the future call which should help. In the mean time this might be a good use for a dual processor box or having to live without JT.
John
Originally posted by JohnAd
In the mean time this might be a good use for a dual processor box or having to live without JT.
John
Interesting! Will the new P4 with HyperThreading runs good with JT? Someone please test it!
Without JT and direct DVD-ROM playback on 3/2 film source content, even with Sharpness and Chroma filter enabled, CPU usage is still below 5% on my 3G system. Someone needs to give us more CPU intensive video processing filter! :)
regards,
Li On
DEcinema
06-12-03, 06:09 AM
Can someone confirm that this will work with older Dxr3 and Hollywood+ Cards too? I found some documentation here:
http://dxr3.sourceforge.net/development.html
The chips support the CCIR-656 8-bit parallel digital signal.
The chips support the CCIR-656 8-bit parallel digital signal.
Brain On Hold
BTW, can somebody describe their soldering technique? For $30, I am willing to risk burning the chip.
DEcinema
06-12-03, 09:01 AM
Both cards decode MPEG-2 in hardware.
Carl Nag
06-12-03, 12:23 PM
I'm also interested in whether the digital output of the Dxr3/Hollywood+ could be used. (it probably could, right?)
I'd imagine that the Xcard would be better for this purpose however as the Dxr3 produces awfully inaccurate colors. With the Holo3D app I have to boost red and blue to get an equal red/green/blue ratio.
pdermody
06-12-03, 12:28 PM
Geoff,
As Tom stated cables will be available shortly to connect the Sigma XCard to the H3D cards, both the original and the newer H3D-II card. No soldering, just plug and pray.
As for what the H3D provides over DScaler, the biggest difference is that H3D provides hardware deinterlacing (DCDi), where DScaler handles everything in software with whatever compatible capture card (*including* the H3D on SD sources).
-pd
Originally posted by spatz
sorry folks I have already tested XCARD connection to HD3D and compared it to my DENON 3300 chroma bug free Panasonic DVD that renders fantastic blacks and colors.
The XCARD is not equalling the picture quality nor does it sound any good
as the Denon. The differences are audible and whatchable. So if you want the cheapest the XCARD is ok but if you have invested already a considerable amount of money in your HT I would go for a Holocard instead and not limit my system by going the cheapest way possible.
Hi Spatz,
I know that Li On is a demanding videophile and an active member of the perfectionist Hong Kong Hi-Vi community. He uses a front projector and has contributed many useful and corroborated tests of image quality in past shootouts. While your own reputation is well established, especially in the Vigatec crowd, but I was just wondering what type of display you used for the picture comparisons?
Some of us have SDI modded DVD players and Holo3D setups, but would like to know for sure if Li On's cards do indeed produce better, comparable, or almost as good image quality.
TIA.
geofstro
06-12-03, 01:57 PM
pd
Thanks. I'll keep watching this space. dscaler has, at least, given me a taste of what's possible. Otherwise I'll have to enroll at the next adult education soldering class :)
Hey Brett, easy! :)
I can't respond to spatz comment in the meanwhile because no one else have the same setup - Xcard PDI into H3D - to test. The cable between the Xcard and the H3D is not a problem. CKL already figure that out (he guess!). But without the supporting H3D driver, we can't use the H3D PDI interface. When we have all the pieces, I'll try to do a comparison.
Some comment about others PDI/SDI setup in this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=262645
This Xcard->Dscaler setup currently gives me the BEST DVD playback quality and I'm enjoying.
Btw Brett, I've a idea. How about feeding the good old Laserdisc to a JVC 30K DVHS, let it does 3D Y/C and converts to SD MPEG2 at 15Mbps (very good picture quality IMO). Then realtime feed back to HTPC via ilink 1394. Finally use Xcard directshow filter to feed the decoded MPEG2 back to Dscaler! Wow, what a chain! :)
regards,
Li On
pdermody
06-12-03, 03:13 PM
Li On,
Curious, if he has the pins figured out and cable made - has he tried pulling up DScaler on the H3D card? Hmm, obviouslly it wouldnt be the SDI input (otherwise it would work now), John any idea how to address that input?
Or is there something different about how DScaler interacts with the H3D? Because I was under the impression that it was not dependant on the manufacturer driver.
-pd
Or if he has the pins figured out, maybe he can share :)
Love to make my own cable to my h3d!!
The Bt864A/865A accepts video data in a variety of ways: CCIR 601, NTSC, and PAL square pixel formats. This provides system designers with maximum flexibility. Either 3.3V or 5V operation is possible with the Bt864A/865A to permit operation within any system environment. Horizontal sync and vertical sync may be configured as inputs (slave mode) or outputs (master mode). In addition to the normal blanking which occurs during Hsync and Vsync, blanking may be externally controlled during active video. The rise and fall times of sync, the burst envelope, and closed caption data are internally controlled.http://dxr3.sourceforge.net/download/hardware/l865a.pdf
http://www.tdc.co.uk/pcvideo/pcvideo_encoders_conexant.htm
ftp://ftp.jurai.net/users/winter/LS220/LS220-wdmsrc.zip
ftp://ftp.jurai.net/users/winter/LS220/LS220-windowsdriversrc.zip
ftp://ftp.jurai.net/users/winter/LS220/Ls220_Databook_v0.5.doc
I found that Creative Labs PC-DVD CT7160 Inlay Decoder Cards have Bt865A encoders and LS220 decoders. It should be even cheaper than Dxr3 and Hollywood Plus.
http://ebay2.ipixmedia.com/abc/M28/_EBAY_3069d4c75560e5ca654e1a0a915df44a/i-1.JPGhttp://ebay3.ipixmedia.com/abc/M28/_EBAY_f2c881405c6346c131cd40c93afd6de5/i-1.JPG
pdermody
06-12-03, 04:28 PM
Man, is there even a WDM driver for that board? I know there was one for the Dxr2 - but it was kinda flakey under XP.
-pd
http://www3.driverguide.com/dgf7b097/uploads6/12764/wdm220.zip
http://www2.driverguide.com/uploads/uploads6/12764.html
EEPROM
http://dvdz.online.ln.cn/files/eeprom.zip
Windows 9x should work but we have to use the drivers above under 2K/XP.
DEcinema
06-12-03, 05:45 PM
I saw the picture with the small cables soldered to the BT878 chip, really impressive work. How can someone solder such small pins? :confused: :confused:
Is there a simpler way to connect a cable to these small pins? Please let me know.
Brian Hampton
06-12-03, 05:55 PM
Oh No!
It is beginning to look like someday I'll regret getting rid of my dxr2 board.
=Brian
http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/video/dvd/encore/index.html
Creative Labs PC-DVD Encore DXR2 is different. The model number should be CT7120 and the decoder is C-Cube ZiVA-DS-L (LSI Logic acquired C-Cube in March 2001)
http://www.c-cube.com/products/Ziva_dec.pdf
The PDF file was there before C-Cube went belly up but now I cannot find any mirrors at all. Already tried http://www.lsilogic.com but no luck.
Brian Hampton
06-12-03, 07:46 PM
Hey,
Well, I looked it up and the Dxr2 didn't have a nice place to put a ribbon cable like the card above. So.. it looks like getting rid of it was ok after all. The vga output of that card was terrible.
-Brian
cerulean
06-12-03, 09:21 PM
DEcinema,
Originally posted by DEcinema
I saw the picture with the small cables soldered to the BT878 chip, really impressive work. How can someone solder such small pins? :confused: :confused:
The trick is to use liquid flux, no solder and 30 gauge rework wire. It also helps to use the microscope setup at work.
Is there a simpler way to connect a cable to these small pins? Please let me know. [/B]
Some of the cards bring the CIRC656 pins out to pads on the board. The pads are much easier to solder to. In addition to using the GPIO pins for BT656 signals, the BT878 chip can use those lines to interface to a tuner. If you can find a BT878 capture card with a spot for a tuner, but no tuner installed, there are usually better connection points in the empty tuner position.
Regards,
Bob
http://www.asec.com.tw/download/data/493/ZiVA_PC.zip
http://www.pennskog.com/cinemaster/hcmc30_info.htm
Looks like ZiVA-PC can output both CCIR 601 and 656.
Hi,
How about Sigma current MPEG2 decoder 8505? Does it has a bt656 out? Maybe we can mod a Bravo player for a PDI connection to a 878a capture card? Thanks in advance.
regards,
Li On
Originally posted by JohnAd
Pin 122 is the clock and then 123->130 are the data pins MSB->LSB
John
Thanks for the info! :)
With the 878a modded card, we select the Silk card in Dscaler and select the SDI input.
With the CX23881 modded card, should we select the H3D in Dscaler and use the SDI input too?
Thanks in advance.
regards,
Li On
Roberto Koelewijn
06-13-03, 12:17 AM
Originally posted by Li On
With the CX23881 modded card, should we select the H3D in Dscaler and use the SDI input too?
Li On
Li On,
CX23881 modded card ?
I have the datasheets of the CX2388x family and only the CX23880 and CX23882 are capable of handling BT656 over the GPIO bus !
But yes, if you use for example an ASUS TV-card (with the CX23880/2) you should use the H3D card in Dscaler.
regards,
Roberto
Hi Roberto,
Thanks for the update. Sad to know my dust-collecting PixelView cx23881 card won't work with bt656...
What's the cheapest card with cx23880/2? I believe the XCapture uses the cx23881 too?
regards,
Li On
Not sure of the cheapest but the Asus TV tuner card (http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?DEPA=&submit=Go&description=asus+tv+tuner) is about 60 dollars
I tried to get a GV-VCP3/PCI (http://www.iodata.co.jp/press/photo/200204/gvvcp3pci.jpg) capture card last year but they're not available in the US
My Japanese isn't too good but I believe the specifications webpage (http://www.iodata.co.jp/prod/multimedia/tv/2003/gv-vcp3pci/) states that it uses a CX23880
DEcinema
06-13-03, 02:37 AM
cerulean: Thank you! :)
Anyone knows if the connection of BT878 and Dxr2 Card will work? I want to try it.
If the hardware deinterlace of DCDi is so good, can it be developed in software for dscaler? Are there any documentations for DCDi?
Originally posted by Li On
With the CX23881 modded card, should we select the H3D in Dscaler and use the SDI input too?
No, I'll add a new card definition for use with PDI, should be in a release next week
John
Hi John,
Wow! This is getting better every second! :) Someone needs to sell a package for the mod card with the cable to Xcard and put some $$$ back to the Dscaler project!
regards,
Li On
Brian Hampton
06-13-03, 06:52 AM
Doh,
Someone mentioned the dxr2 would have possibly worked after all!
Anyway, I bought a Creative Labs PC-DVD CT7160 for $5.50 today on ebay. (Thanks to everyone interested in this thread for not outbidding me :) ) It has a nice ribbon cable which could possibly simplify things. I also have a IOmagic capture card which I think has pads for the needed pins but I'm not sure.
If another capture card has a header for the needed pins that would simplfy the mod greatly and I would think that would be worth the purchase of a new capture card. So... What would be a good example of that?
Thanks,
Brian
Tom Strade
06-13-03, 06:55 AM
Originally posted by JohnAd
No, I'll add a new card definition for use with PDI, should be in a release next week
John
Thanks John. Its already on the crossbar in the latest drivers so should be easy enough. We'll be posting new drivers that support both H3D and H3D-II later today.
Originally posted by Tom Strade
Thanks John. Its already on the crossbar in the latest drivers so should be easy enough. We'll be posting new drivers that support both H3D and H3D-II later today.
I'm not sure I made mayself clear before so I'll have another go.
[B]Holo 3D card[\B]
Won't work with PDI in 4.1.6
I will need to change existing card definition to include PDI as an input, to do this i'll need it teh updated drivers and software so that I can grab the right settings for the FPGA chip.
May be in 4.1.7
[B]Other cx2388x cards[\B]
Won't work with PDI in 4.1.6, at the very least I'd expect serious issues if you choose H3D as the card and you didn't have one.
I need to add a new generic card definition that has a PDI input.
Will be in 4.1.7
Hope this helps
John
Brian Hampton
06-13-03, 07:59 AM
bbq@KL,
I bought one of the creative cards you posted a picture of above and you seem to know the most about these cards so far. Do you know what software is used with these cards? I can't seem to find much info about them.
Thanks,
Brian
Thanks John and Tom.
If the 26 pins socket at Creative card is the digital video output, you can try the pins at my previous post.
Good Luck
If by having the wrong pins hooked up, is there a chance you might 'fry' something? Well specifically, I'll be dealing with the xcard to the holo3d (so no soldering).
Thanks
cerulean
06-13-03, 08:35 AM
Hi John,
Originally posted by JohnAd
I need to add a new generic card definition that has a PDI input.
Will be in 4.1.7
Would it also be possible to add a new generic card definition for use with CCIR601? I think it's one register change on the BT878 from CCIR656.
Thanks,
Bob
Originally posted by cerulean
Would it also be possible to add a new generic card definition for use with CCIR601? I think it's one register change on the BT878 from CCIR656.
Probably not, the CCIR code has some "magic numbers" that came from Connexant, I imagine those would have to change for CCIR601.
John
cerulean
06-13-03, 09:10 AM
Originally posted by JohnAd
Probably not, the CCIR code has some "magic numbers" that came from Connexant, I imagine those would have to change for CCIR601.
The "magic numbers" might be the same. I wired my old Apex DVD player directly to the BT878 on a CyberAV card and selected the Silk card in dScaler. I got a decent picture, except the synch and blanking were out of whack.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=2043080
Regards,
Bob
Originally posted by Roberto Koelewijn
Li On,
CX23881 modded card ?
I have the datasheets of the CX2388x family and only the CX23880 and CX23882 are capable of handling BT656 over the GPIO bus !
The datasheet I've got; CX2388x.pdf, states:
CX23880
Decoded video data output: 8- or 10-bit ITU-R 656 4:2:2 output
Video data input: 8-bit ITU-R 656/VIP 2.0 pixel input
CX23881
Decoded video data output: 8- or 10-bit ITU-R 656 4:2:2 output
Video data input: 8-bit ITU-R 656/VIP 2.0 pixel input
I might not know enough but it looks to me that CX23881 would work too,
giving the opportunity to use XCapture/MSI-TV@nywhare ect.
Regards
Henrik
Hi Henrik,
Section 2.3.9 (page 83 of 305) in CX2388x datasheet mentions that ITU BT656 and VIP 2.0 pixel input mode (GPIO pin 0 to 7) is supported by CX23880 and CX23882 only.
Regards,
Atman
http://www5.driverguide.com/files67b/uploads13/33315/ct7160_xp_drivers.rar
http://www2.driverguide.com/uploads/uploads13/33315.html
Please ask this person if you need help for CT7160
vadim_g123@hotmail.com
BTW, did they mention anything about CX23883?
skj2avs
06-13-03, 05:27 PM
with this option of xcard to generic capture card to dscaler, do you have to also use the capture cards ouput or can you use your video card or hdtv card's output? thanks, shane
pdermody
06-13-03, 05:52 PM
With DScaler you would have to use the GPU for your output.
-pd
Gridstop
06-13-03, 08:02 PM
I was under the impression that most of these capture cards are limited to 640x480... but MPEG2 would be 720x480... are you losing resolution or does the capture card take the full 720x480 over the digital input?
It has no problem to accept 720x480 and 720x576.
Gridstop
06-13-03, 10:47 PM
CKL,
Where did you get your 30ga wire, and which liquid flux did you use?
I might have access to a grabber, but if I don't I'll have to solder it as well.
Looks like the Leadtek VC100XP is the cheapest solution, but does anyone know of a cheap card (<$50) that has easier spots to solder to? Soldering directly to the conexant isn't really a deal-breaker for me, I'm fairly comfortable doing that, but I certainly wouldn't mind if I didn't have to.
Also interesting that the Xcard supports divx playback, would be fun to compare its output using dscaler with what one can do with ffdshow. Of course I vastly prefer xvid now anyway so it doesn't help too much, would still end up using BSP and ffdshow.
jkaiser
06-13-03, 11:13 PM
While I can't speak for CKL, the 30 gage wire is sometimes found as wire for wire wrapping boards (does anyone wire wrap circuit boards anymore?) I think RS still handles it.
30-Gauge Wire for Wrapping
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category_name=CTLG_005_001_022_000&product_id=278-501
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category_name=CTLG_005_001_022_000&product_id=278-502
This is the 30 AWG wire wrap wires I bought in a local electronic shop. US$2 for 100ft.
Regards,
Atman
bbq,
I thought the point of using the Xcard to decode the mpeg2 stream was that it was not susceptible to the micro stutters and jerky pans which the software players seem to have. I'm I wrong in this assumption?
NickB
Gripstop,
The wires can be bought in stores selling electronic parts. The pins on 878 to the PCB is in the shape like this:
_
|_
You can fix one wire on its top and the next wire on the side alternatively to avoid short circuit.
Good Luck
Very interesting stuff. I really love when ppl finds these sort of things :)
I just dug up an old Hauppauge WinTV card. It has a BT878KHF chip on it. The pins upposed to be the digital input are not connected (two of them are pulled up VDD, but that only makes it simpler to solder...).
I cannot find any specific pdf about this chip, does anyone know if the this chip accepts digital in on these pins?
The card includes a tuner, but I cannot see that that should matter...
Regards
Anders
Here's a dumb questions...
Will this mod do anything for me if I'm using a component cable and transcoder to my RPTV? Would this give me a dedicated DVD out to my TV?
Thanks,
Dan.
Hi all,
I've finished my guide as I said. It should answer most of the basic questions people have. If you have any comments or suggestions to make it better let me know. Also keep in mind I have neither card.
Watching DVDs via PDI using dScaler (http://www.htpcgear.net/pdi/index.html)
Enjoy.
tachi,
Thanks for taking the time to put that all together. Hopefully it can get added it to HTPC FAQ.
I solder pretty well but these pins are quite small. Any chance on expanding with pictures the actual step on attaching the wires and header? So who wants to start selling a modified generic bt878a card with connector cable? :)
http://www.avbuzz.com/bbs/av/diss.php?id=54273
Pin Assignment 1 -----------------> 11
2 -----------------> 12
3 -----------------> 13
4 -----------------> 14
5 -----------------> 15
6 -----------------> 16
7 --------X--------> 17
8 -----------------> 18
9 --------X--------> 19
10 -----------------> 20
11 --------X--------> 21
12 -----------------> 22
13 --------X--------> 23
14 -----------------> 24
15 -----------------> 25
16 -----------------> 26
17 -----------------> 3
18 -----------------> 4 http://www.avbuzz.com/bbs/av/uploads/030615035351.jpg
pdermody
06-14-03, 07:56 PM
Now all you need is either DScaler support for the PDI input on the H3D, or for the H3D driver update to be released with the Holo3D app that is aware of the input.
-pd
I attached the PDF document of pin assignment. Another file is the Pronto CCF for us who did not get the StreamZap remote.
nikkieneuken
06-15-03, 12:27 AM
does anybody know what pins on the bt865 chip I have to use on a creativelabs drx3 (realmagic hollywoodplus)?
Here are some BETA drivers that should be aware of both the H3D and/or H3D-II card. Turn on VCR mode as I know there is a bug concerning it with these drivers. Then go into setup and configure the inputs. You should be able to add the parallel digital input, then the XCard input specifically. 2.0Pre4 should already support this.
DEcinema
06-15-03, 05:57 AM
nikkieneuken: download the BT865 PDF documentation at http://dxr3.sourceforge.net/development.html
Nombz: I have the same card with a BT878KHF on it. I can't find any documentation for this chip. I don't know if the pin configuration is the same as for BT878KPF.
JamesElrod
06-15-03, 06:15 AM
Originally posted by Li On
Hi John,
Wow! This is getting better every second! :) Someone needs to sell a package for the mod card with the cable to Xcard and put some $$$ back to the Dscaler project!
regards,
Li On
I second that, I cant solder worth crap and would be interetested in a packaged deal.
pdermody
06-15-03, 12:11 PM
For those of you who cant or dont want to solder, you could probably pick up one of those refurbished H3D boards that AVS is selling. That, an XCard for around $85-$90, a cable from one of the distributors once they are made (or you can make your own cable now the pinouts are available), and DScaler support soon for the PDI input on the card (or use the beta driver and Holo3D app now) one would be good to go with a pretty flexible solution in terms of inputs and capabilities.
-pd
nikkieneuken
06-15-03, 04:06 PM
first thanks decinema for the quick response!
secondly, does anybody know of a capturecard that has the right bt878 chip on it and some sort of header that you can use instead of the soldering stuff. I own a pinnacle card with the right chip on it, but no header or something like that and the solderingjob will be a pain.
(the bt865 chip has a far more open structure in pin layout, so this chip won't be hard on soldering.)
for me the h3d option is way too expensive.....
http://akiba.ascii24.com/akiba/news/2001/06/22/images/images650952.jpg
http://www.sigmam.com/system/html/tvc_SIGMA_Cyber_TV_II.html
pdermody
06-15-03, 06:09 PM
bbq, interesting find.
-pd
The pins in the socket for BT656 can be chased since we know the pins at 878. Then you can make a tailor made ribbon cable connecting to Xcard.
Do you mean traced or chased?
Have you ever seen Sigmacom Cyber TV II anywhere? It might not be cheap if we have to import it from Korea or Japan. Hopefully these shops will carry the card:
http://buycomp.hkgolden.com/comp_malls.asp
cerulean
06-15-03, 08:24 PM
I think that most 878 cards that have tuners use the GPIO pins to control the tuner.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=1887610#post1887610
Bob
bbq,
It is simple. You just need a multi-meter to measure the resistance between pins on 878 and those on the output port.
We know pin 66 at 878 is the clock for BT656. There may be resistor between the 878 and the port or not. Even there is a resistor. the value should not be high (say < 1000 ohm). You place one connector at the pin66 and then search pins at the port. The one rating at 0-xxx ohm should be the clock pin.
Repeating the said method, you can find the other 8 pins.
I have a AVerTV stereo card and it has a place for a 24 pin connector as well as a 12 pin. I buzzed out the 12 pin and it goes to the Audio inputs on the 878a (I2S, Radio audio, etc). The 24 pin only has 3 connections besides grounds and vcc. The PCTV also has a 24 or 26 pin connector on it at least in this picture on Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00000JMUC/inktomi-ceasin-20/002-7708921-9407228) but it is out of stock.
Has anyone confirmed or taken a multimeter and checked out whether the 26 pin connector on the PCTV Rave provides connections to the needed pins on the bt878a? Perhaps someone who has one or has the manual can comment on the intended purpose for the 26 pin connector?
CompUSA should have PCTV Rave for $49.99 plus penny shipping within this week. 301597 is their product number of the card we want.
CompUSA local stores might let us return the card if those pins are not Xcard compatible.
Steve_T
06-16-03, 05:10 AM
Am i missing something here?
Why do we need the Xcard?
Can't we use a hardware player like the RP82 or XP50 (i've got XP50) and hardwire that to the capture card or would the ribbon cable or lead required be too long for the signals?
A standalone player would be WAF!
Steve.
nikkieneuken
06-16-03, 06:01 AM
I actually own a pinnacle pctv rave card (bought it not to long ago), but on my board there are no pins out...........
nikkieneuken
06-16-03, 06:17 AM
here's a review and photo of the new rave.
http://www.tv-cards.com/pctvrave.php
Steve_T
Yes, you've missed something.
Some pages back in this thread Li On gave this link:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=262645
This should tell you all.
Henrik
nikkieneuken
06-16-03, 07:16 AM
bbq, it's the older version that you have I quess.
the pin layout you can find in the pdf file appendix3.
could you tell me if this is what we're looking for?
nikkieneuken
06-16-03, 07:24 AM
this is the file.
http://www.dominadm.com/ftp/Manuali/Miro/Pctv_e.pdf
Once upon a time I owned a Creative labs "video inlay" DVD decoder card. This one did not have a VGA passthru, but instead relied entirely on a 26-pin digital video connector, which would connect to a mating connector found on most video cards. The result was a pure digital inlay of the video, and a great picture. These days, fewer cards have this connector. Would this connector have carried the same SDI encoded digital video that the Dscaler/BT878 combination takes advantage of?
Originally posted by Brian Hampton
Oh No!
It is beginning to look like someday I'll regret getting rid of my dxr2 board.
=Brian
Oh My Gosh! Will my retentive unwillingness to ever throw anything away pay off?!?
Years after the DVD-Rom drive of my Creative Dxr2 package died, I still have its useless Dxr2 Board - in minty fresh condition. :)
Only thing, while it is indeed the Creative Model CT7120 which has the Brooktree Bt865AKPF encoder chip and the C-Cube Microsystems ZiVA DS-c MV A2 Japan 9745 8970052 decoder chip, under the other Dxr2 sticky labels there is another big chip, an Aurora VXP524 CPQ TAK8133.1AT9746, any idea what it does?
Great that the Ziva chip can output both older and more recent CCIR sequencings. I know this is a little off topic, but would it be technically feasible to take the digital feed of a satellite receiver and feed it into the Dxr2 card? :confused:
Since this card is alread written off since over 5 years ago, nothing to lose by soldering and sawing away at it. :cool:
bbq, any suggestions? I got that pdf file you linked to but is doesn't have the pin-outs...
Cheers,
I read appendix3 and then I also realized the pdf file would not mention anything about Fusion 878A.
It is just an old version with Bt848 so that one cannot accept BT656 from Xcard. Fusion 878A CX23880 CX23882
Pin 66 122 122
Pin 79 123 123
Pin 80 124 124
Pin 81 125 125
Pin 82 126 126
Pin 83 127 127
Pin 84 128 128
Pin 85 129 129
Pin 86 130 130Basically we have 3 choices to choose from. Fusion 878A came out a long time ago so that one should be easy to find. Each chip has 128 pins and we need 9 of them:
http://www.htpcgear.net/pdi/pdi-01.html
How do we connect those pins without soldering? Honestly I am not really sure because I do not even have any capture cards based on Fusion 878A. Maybe one of them can give us what we want:
http://home.t-online.de/home/gunther.mayer/bttv/bttv-gallery.html
Some cards do have headers with certain number of pins. We would be very lucky if we could find one card that already has 66/79/80/81/82/83/84/85/86 linked to their respective pin of the card's header. It does sound like lottery or something. No need for soldering when we win the game but we will be punished by solder gun when we lose.
So far I could only find such card from Korea:
http://www.geocrawler.com/archives/3/4574/2001/6/0/6048974/
http://www.sasem.com/english/prod/main3.html
There are 34 pins on the right and we can connect 1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/25 to Xcard:
http://www.ptie.org/~eggman/sdisilk.txt
http://www.ptie.org/~eggman/sdisilk_top.jpg
Hopefully we can find a similar card somewhere. Then we just need to make a ribbon cable and use it for PDI connection.
BTW, here is a link to Dxr2 Chipset Documentation:
http://dxr2.sourceforge.net/projects/dxr2-driver/
geofstro
06-16-03, 11:38 AM
nikkieneuken
This looks like the version of PCTVRave I brought about a week ago at the store across the road from me; but how to check if the header is providing the right pins to link to the chip on the XCard?
Brian Hampton
06-16-03, 12:00 PM
MAcboy,
I bought the same card you are mentioning. It was also mentioned on page one or two of this thread. I haven't received it yet. I think I'll try running the output of the header on the creative card to the header on my Geforce DDR and see how that looks before seeking a capture card for use with Dscaler.
All,
If the hardware decoder card has VIP port such as the Creative card and perhaps the XCard and the computers main video card has VIP input and they connect... Is there any way to utilize that with Dscaler and avoid the capture card entirely?
-Brian
p.s. I think Li On mentioned much earlier in this thread that the advantage on using Dscaler is it's superior de-interlacing abilities; however, I think in this case Dscaler is getting a progressive signal. If this is true then deinterlacing shouldn't apply.. Right?
Hi Brian,
The bt656 carries interlace video. I also don't understand why the VIP/VPE has a interlace signal because the display card needs to deinterlace then. Maybe the real VIP/VPE actually don't use the bt656? Maybe other pins on the interface? I don't know.
Btw, just saw a DVD player using the Sigma 8500 chip with a DVI out. The picture quality is a JOKE! Besides, the 8500 does NOT deinterlace. It just reads the progressive flag.
regards,
Li On
dirtymatt
06-16-03, 12:49 PM
Originally posted by Brett
Only thing, while it is indeed the Creative Model CT7120 which has the Brooktree Bt865AKPF encoder chip and the C-Cube Microsystems ZiVA DS-c MV A2 Japan 9745 8970052 decoder chip, under the other Dxr2 sticky labels there is another big chip, an Aurora VXP524 CPQ TAK8133.1AT9746, any idea what it does?
Brett,
I'm pretty sure the Aurora was the horrible VGA overlay chip that Creative decided to put on that card. I had some old docs on that card from when I was a very minor part of the team writing Linux drivers for the card. I'll have to see if i can find them anywhere. I'm pretty certain one of the PDFs did have pinouts for the C-Cube chip.
Hi Matt,
Thanks - no need to go to any trouble for details about the Aurora chip, it must be that.
bbq,
I'll look further for those pinouts on the c-cube chip. Will the straps/ribbon soldered onto them hook up easily to the Holo3D without any daughter cards? TIA.
nikkieneuken
06-16-03, 01:17 PM
geofstro,
I agree with bbq that the one he showed was the older version.
So I'll have a try at it tomorrow and there will be used some solder at creative card and glue at the new version of the pctv rave let's see how it turns out.......
Wish me luck!!
Steve_T
06-16-03, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by Li On
Hi Brian,
The bt656 carries interlace video. I also don't understand why the VIP/VPE has a interlace signal because the display card needs to deinterlace then. Maybe the real VIP/VPE actually don't use the bt656? Maybe other pins on the interface? I don't know.
Btw, just saw a DVD player using the Sigma 8500 chip with a DVI out. The picture quality is a JOKE! Besides, the 8500 does NOT deinterlace. It just reads the progressive flag.
regards,
Li On
Li-On,
What model was the sigma 8500/DVI player?
Thanks.
Steve.
Fascinating topic!
This looks like a likely TV tuner candidate:
Zoltrix 8MM-ZX-GENIE TV Tuner with Radio and Remote.
It has a 20-pin connector over the BT878 chip and a trace of another 20-pin header on the left side.
http://home.t-online.de/home/gunther.mayer/bttv/Zoltrix_Genie_TV_Bt878_VP-8790_Rev2_002.jpg
geofstro
06-16-03, 03:27 PM
nikkieneuken,
Power to your soldering iron!
I'm eagerly awaiting your results
geoff
Originally posted by geofstro
nikkieneuken
This looks like the version of PCTVRave I brought about a week ago at the store across the road from me; but how to check if the header is providing the right pins to link to the chip on the XCard? Would you please take a look at the picture and the following web page?
http://www.ptie.org/~eggman/sdisilk_top.jpg
http://www.htpcgear.net/pdi/pdi-01.html
First of all, please pay attention to the CONEXANT FUSION 878A of the picture. The top should have 38 pins and there are some white marks above these pins:long short long short long short long short
100 95 90 85 80 75 70 65Now try to trace the pins below:86 85 84 83 82 81 80 79 66
GPIO[00] GPIO[01] GPIO[02] GPIO[03] GPIO[04] GPIO[05] GPIO[06] GPIO[07] GPCLKAll of them are linked to their corresponding header's pin (http://www.ptie.org/~eggman/sdisilk.txt) on the right. Then we just need a ribbon cable to connect the pins like this:Fusion 878A General Purpose Header Xcard (Digital Video OUT (http://www.pctip.co.il/pictures/sigma/Diagram.jpg))
86 GPIO[00] 1
85 GPIO[01] 3
84 GPIO[02] 5
83 GPIO[03] 7
82 GPIO[04] 9
81 GPIO[05] 11
80 GPIO[06] 13
79 GPIO[07] 15
66 GPCLK 17
geofstro
06-16-03, 05:18 PM
Am actually finally beginning to see how this might fit together with the detailed explanation and pics you provided here. I'm gonna take the PCTV Rave out tomorrow and see if this schema maps onto it. My xCard arrived this morning.
Thanks a million
geoff
Anyone have anyidea when dscaler 4.1.7 will come out (or specifically with the PDI input option for the H3D)?
The picture coming in through the native Holo3d software looks great with my custom made cable. Unfortunatly, I have so many problems with that front end, it's not funny. So, for now I have to wait for dscaler...
Thanks in advance!
Hi,
The pins assignment are as follows when you face both cards.
From left to right:
2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16,18,20,22,24,26
1,3,5,7,9,11,13,15,17,19,21,23,25
Xcard--------------H3D
2------------------12
4------------------14
6------------------16
8------------------18
10-----------------20
12-----------------22
14-----------------24
16-----------------26
18-----------------4 (clock)
Xcard's 7,9,11,13 have the signal that don't need for PDI. That's why they are disconnected.
It seems to be different from what I posted regarding Xcard to 878. But they actually are the same. Only the numbering is different. The pins having signal are on the upper row.
tbdombrosky
06-17-03, 10:16 AM
I'm still confused about how you would control the player. Li On said you use the remote. How does the interface work since Dscaler is loaded?
Originally posted by llama
Anyone have anyidea when dscaler 4.1.7 will come out (or specifically with the PDI input option for the H3D)?
The picture coming in through the native Holo3d software looks great with my custom made cable. Unfortunatly, I have so many problems with that front end, it's not funny. So, for now I have to wait for dscaler...
Thanks in advance! It is delayed because DScopeVIDEO plugin is not finished yet.
I just grabbed the source codes from CVS and I might be able to compile and put dscaler.exe somewhere.
Using the H3d app currently, I have mine set up through Girder. Basically you need to 'TARGET' the xcard window.
Or you could just use the Xcard remote with no problems...
bbq:
That would be cool!
Does that plugin have anything to do with the PDI interface?
Thanks
Vermonster
06-17-03, 11:28 AM
OK, I won't pretend that I was able to keep up with all the lingo and many abbreviations that were thrown around on this thread, but I think I'm finally understanding what needs to be done.
This has been asked but I'm not sure what the consensus was. I have both the dxr3 card and a pinnacle studio pctv card. Will either of these work?
Also I'd like to know how difficult it is to use a soldering iron. I've never touched one before. Would I be better off to just forget about it - or is it pretty simple to pick up?
...If my girlfriend catches me soldering a PCI card she's gonna really think I've lost it...
Originally posted by tbdombrosky
I'm still confused about how you would control the player. Li On said you use the remote. How does the interface work since Dscaler is loaded?
Xcard has its own IR remote control. We are running both of Xcard software and Dscaler at the same time. The picture displays on the window of Dscaler. You can control the Xcard by its control panel within the desktop or by the remote control. Xcard doesn't occupy the Overlay. So Dscaler can still use the Overlay.
tbdombrosky
06-17-03, 12:24 PM
This all makes me think about why someone hasn't programmed something that does this: Decodes the mpeg2 stream through software and sends the decoded stream to Dscaler for processing. I know ffdshow does something similar to this and has Dscaler plugins, but I thought the actual Dscaler app is what did the magic.
It seems as though a Dscaler plugin (or modification to the Dscaler source) would be needed to receive the uncompressed stream through software instead of hardware. And a software dvd player would need a modification to send the decoded stream out (Blight, are you listening? hehe).
It just seems like using all these interfaces isn't that smart since the video is being affected (mpeg2 decoded by chip, sent through PDI to the GPIO input on BT878a, where it is processed by Dscaler). I know it's all digital but Li On claimed (in a different thread) that SDI and PDI looked different so something must be going on there.
I know this is all easier said than done, but it appears this would lead to the best picture quality possible (subjectively of course). This would also require a sick cpu to process all this. Does any of this seem like a good idea or am I completely off? Please, be gentle.
tbdombrosky
06-17-03, 01:23 PM
Nevermind my idea. It requires the video decoders of the software players to be modified, and all of them are commercial players so I don't see that happening any time soon.
Your idea may happen if we could get enough donation for purchasing InterVideo FilterSDK. We just need a customized version of InterVideo Video Decoder (IVIVIDEO.ax) that works with DScaler.
I was trying to compile DScaler.exe but I got cannot open input file "vxdwraps.clb" all the time.
I think John just updated DI_MoComp2.dll and DI_TomsMoComp.dll today but CVS still had the older files.
tbdombrosky
06-17-03, 01:51 PM
I couldn't get Dscaler to compile either. We could use the libmpeg2 on sourceforge but it would only work on non-encrypted dvds. I'll take a look at it when I get home from work.
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/guliverkli/guliverkli/src/filters/transform/decssfilter/
http://sourceforge.net/cvs/?group_id=82303
They might help a little bit.
pdermody
06-17-03, 02:34 PM
Im curious, if your talking about a software solution, why would you want to pass it DScaler? for deinterlacing video sources or something? If you are just after some different deinterlace routines or sharpen and what not, why not just pipe it through FFDShow now and use the latest DScaler filters via that? I mean if you want to do everything in software, you can do it now via Zoom Player, X mpeg decoder, FFDShow, and DScaler filters. If your after something like judder terminator that is different.
-pd
tbdombrosky
06-17-03, 03:07 PM
Read this. This will give you a more detailed explanation:
Originally posted by CKL
The problem of software DVDP is the deinterlacing. It has no problem for good encoded 24/30fps film source but it can't handle video source or bad encoded DVD. Dscaler is much better. It can auto detect the deinterlace mode. Even it selects the wrong mode, we can manually choose the right one.
Hardware MPEG decoder is smoother than software decoder (panning and decompressing). Hardware decoder also has less "snowing" noise comparing software one.
Tapping BT656 to Dscaler or H3D is more straight and simple. It doesn't need to convert to SDI and reverse to BT656. You can get these benefits no matter you are using VGA or DVI connection to your projector.
We've compared PDI with SDI using two RP82 and two 878A capture cards. PDI has better definition and punch. Here is the thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=262645
Now I don't know if the dscaler plugin for the software dvd players can do this. If they do then you are right, it would be a waste of time. I really like the dscaler interface though.
Before this goes too far off topic I'll try and answer some of the points raised.
The two main areas where DScaler improves software DVD quality are having non-flag reading film detection and much better video deinterlacing. The video deinterlacing part can be achieved with ffdshow but at present there has been no attempt to add film detection onto an mpeg decoding stream. I'm currently working on a filter that would do this but I expect this will take at the very least a few months as it will require a new alogirthm and a redisgn of much of the code. Once this is done there are still one or two reasons why the PDI/SDI image might still be slightly better we will have to wait and see.
John
I have read the entire message posts twice and it is awesome. My girlfriend calls me a nerd, I told her about this post and the possibilities and she just shakes her head. Hey she simply enjoys the fruits of out hobby. Thanks.
Geoff --> I am very interested in the Pinnacle Rave card for the possibility of less strenous soldering. Please keep us posted on your findings.
I was also wondering is the modified capture card still a capture card? I mean can you still use it to snag satellite channels (with an out board satellite receiver)? If yes, is the image tweaked with DScaler to provide improvement?
Is it possible to view the images either from DVD or satellite in 1280x720?
Thanks
Liver
geofstro
06-18-03, 03:08 AM
The Pinnacle PCTVRave definitely has the right chip on it. The BT878a; but yesterday I took it out while I was fitting my new xCard.
On the xCard there is an obvious connector marked "digital video out"; but on the PCTVRave I tried to trace where the pins from the top of the BT878a might meet up with some kind of header that would allow connection without soldering; but no luck.
I didn't have a magnifying glass handy which would have helped. I'll try again at the weekend when I have more time; but I think this card would require soldering.
I'm not opposed to soldering. In fact I just replaced all the drivers in my speakers, which required quite a bit of soldering work. I've never worked at this micro level though, and lack the confidence.
I think the search is still on for an affordable capture card, with one of the compatible chips that would allow the connection to be made without the need to solder. Perhaps the Zoltrix card posted by Tictoc?
From reading previous posts, I don't believe it would be possible to continue to use your capture card as a TV tuner, in fact those with TV tuners are the least likely to work; but I'm not 100% sure about this.
geoff
DEcinema
06-18-03, 03:19 AM
geofstro: Is there a 26 pin connector on your PCTV Rave card?
pdermody
06-18-03, 11:42 AM
So I am curious, how many ppl have actually tried to sit down and solder to the 878a yet? or even thought about seriously doing this job?
-pd
lawdawg
06-18-03, 11:50 AM
I can't solder, but am interested in finding a capture card that has a header to attach to the xcard. Or trading for/buy a used H3d card to do this.
geofstro
06-18-03, 12:05 PM
DEcinema,
I'm sorry but I won't be able to check that for a couple of days since I won't be at the location where the PC is. Can you give me a clue as to what exactly the connector should look like. Apart from having 26 pins would it normally face up wards from the board like the one on the xCard, or not necessarily?
I have seriously thought of getting the Wincard that LiOn modified and have a go at soldering onto that. Trouble is I'd probably have to order it from the US and by the time shipping and tax are added it's no longer such a cheap card just to play with.
The PCTVRaves are easy to find here; but even that was as much as Euro 79 at the local store so if it does have the connector that'd be great.
geoff
nikkieneuken
06-18-03, 12:10 PM
I have sent out some emails to the australian and chinese support of pinnacle about the purpose of the 26 pins connector.
as soon as I get a reply I'll report it...
regards,
nikkieneuken
geofstro
06-18-03, 12:15 PM
Great!
Mine looks exactly like the one pictured in a previous post. Are the connectors around the side of that box with Pinnacle written on it?
Even if it has a 26 pin connector, how to be sure this is going to the correct pins on the BT878a?
geoff (as confused as ever)
dnewcomer
06-18-03, 01:20 PM
at this point, I am fool enough to make my 3rd attempt.
after practicing on an old graphics card, I felt confident enough to give it a try.
the first attempt at soldering on the Leadtek card, actually went well, BUT
when I tried folding the wires and attaching the 26-pin header to the card, the wires moved and some came loose.... oh well
my second attempt (this time I used the AverDVD EZ capture card - has the Fusion 878a chip, seems identical to Leadtek vp100 - , and it was available locally), the soldering appeared to go well, at this time I used some silicon caulk to fix and immobilize the wires.. did this last nite, checked the wires this morning after the silicon setup, and at least the wires seem very stable and handling the wires didnt break the connections. BUT
when testing the wiring using an meter, it looks like there may be a short between two of the wires... oh well 2
3rd attempt plan:
1) attach all wires to 26-pin header and glue to board ( I think this will make testing the connections easier after soldering, and before applying the silicon)
2) try to pre-shape(route) the wires as much as possible before soldering
3) solder the connections, and test for shorts after each connection, it is easier to resolder the wires if your not trying to stick the soldering iron inbetween two good connections)
4) hopefully all connections finished, and no shorts, then apply the silicon and let it dry overnite,
5) retest connections, it appears that the wind blowing from certain directions can move the wires???, if all is still well, then install the card, and sit back and enjoy
OBSERVATIONS from the journey:
(at least for amatuers that dont have professional equipment to do such micro-level work)
* inspect the wire-ends after cutting and stripping the insulation, little burrs and bent wire make it harder to keep the wire from touching the adjacent pins.
* I used paste flux from radio shack, which was easy to apply to wire-ends
* get the smallest tip possible for the soldering iron, I picked up a 12-watt soldering pencil and a micro-tip ( I will have to re-check the actual size when i get home), the tip is just about the width of the legs coming from the 878.
* so far about $50-75 for supplies (soldering pencil, tip, magnifying goggles, etc)
* stopped worrying whether it was worth it at this point, now its a challenge
pdermody
06-18-03, 01:23 PM
Has anyone else with the Xcard, H3D, and SDI player done a comparison between the sources? I am curious since the beta driver and app is out there with the pinouts for the H3D.
I am still awaiting both my custom cable and upgraded H3DII card, otherwise I would do the comparison myself and post a quick eyeball review.
-pd
ciordia9
06-18-03, 02:05 PM
geof: keep up the good work. I've got too shakey hands to ever be able to solder to that level so I've got to await some sort of plug-able solution.
Like to thank everyone who has thus far contriubted though, its been great watching this unfold and I hope that a set of products can be found to do this w/o the micro work.
-C9-
Xcard PDI seems to be better Pioneer 858Ai SDI
http://www.avbuzz.com/bbs/av/diss.php?id=90913
geofstro
06-18-03, 03:20 PM
ciordia9
Just to correct you it's dnewcomer who's doing the good work.
I'm like you and need something plug and prayable
geoff
Do you think the Holo card would be a better alternative if
1. you wanted to use xcard for digital DVD and Dscaler and
2. still wanted to have a capture card to view satellite TV (via outboard satellite receiver).
Thanks
Liver
pdermody
06-19-03, 12:18 AM
Liver,
1) If you dont want to do any soldering, then it is the only solution for a PDI solution currently (that I am aware of, there is talk but I have not seen a card that is confirmed).
2) yes, i use it with my directivo and echostar receivers and it looks great. some of the other capture cards are pretty close though (ie like the KBK Zoltrix)
-pd
nikkieneuken
06-19-03, 02:54 AM
guys,
this is the answer I got out of Australia:
The 26 pin connector was used for the FM upgrade board on the older revisions. The
new revisions no longer have this connector.
Thanks
Hasan Coskun
Pineapplehead
Technical Support
Ph - 1300 302 306
Ph - 03 9852 7444
Fax - 03 9854 8400
ICQ - 306303142
Always Online!
Regards,
nikkieneuken
Winfast VC100 actually doesn't use 878A's BT656 input. So the S-video input should still work after PDI mod. I will try and report the result later.
I've compared Xcard with RP82 SDI. Xard is a bit soft comparing RP82. But the sharpness filter within Dscaler can improve it.
I've also compared Xcard to VC100 with H3D. There is not much difference except the deinterlacing by Dscaler and FLI2200.
Steve_T
06-19-03, 04:27 AM
CKL,
Have u tried RP82 with H3D with PDI?
geofstro
06-19-03, 04:45 AM
nikkieneuken,
Thanks for checking that out. Obviously we can count the PTVRave out as a candidate.
I'm still curious about that Zoltrix, looks like one could be picked up fairly cheaply here- http://www.wiredzone.com/xq/asp/ic.50011058/qx/itemdesc.htm
Interestingly they also make a combined capture card and MPEGI/II decoder http://www.zoltrix.com/
No idea if it could actually be used for DVD playback as the xCard can or if it would be recognized by dscaler
geoff
Yes, it works. But there are sparkle noises at red and blue areas. There is no problem for RP82 PDI to VC100 while I use 9 inch PDI cable (total length from 878A to the board within RP82). I will try to improve the wiring within RP82. Then I can compare SDI & PDI using the same RP82.
Originally posted by geofstro
I'm still curious about that Zoltrix, looks like one could be picked up fairly cheaply here- http://www.wiredzone.com/xq/asp/ic.50011058/qx/itemdesc.htm
Interestingly they also make a combined capture card and MPEGI/II decoder http://www.zoltrix.com/
No idea if it could actually be used for DVD playback as the xCard can or if it would be recognized by dscaler
Geofstro,
Zoltrix Genie Wonder Pro (http://www.zoltrix.com/products/video/8MMZXGENIEWP.htm) performs MPEG-1 or MPEG-2 real-time "software" video recording directly from its built-in TV tuners. It looks very similar (http://www.inpax.com/ebay/tplimg/geniewp/GenieWP.jpg) to TV Genie. It's probably just a TV Genie with bundled PowerVCR II Pro 3.0.
Anyone brave enough to order from wiredzone? You reach DVD nirvana if you succeed; and failed experiment will cost you about $12 shipping fee plus 15% ($5.4) charge for returned item :)
nikkieneuken
06-19-03, 07:29 AM
I've sent out a mail to the zoltrix guys.....
My main concern is that although I do not enjoy micro slobbering, I can (and have) done it.
I really want to have this optimal set up that is described and have the option of still watching satellite tv (via outboard receiver) without using ANOTHER capture card. Although I am not 100% sure, I believe having 2 capture cards may result in significant hardware / software conflicts.
Sure, getting a Holo3D card would be the easier way and by earlier posts resulting in a superior picture. Also by the previous posts, does not seem that it is significant.
Researching this mod and then modding that one special card is the hobby. Other people have different hobbies and may find the Holo3D / XCard to be more their liking, but that is to each his / her own.
Final point of the rant (have not slept in 36 hours), thanks for the wonderful posts and great information. It is amazing how much good information is available. Good job.
Thanks,
Liver
Yes. Very cool and cost effective... IF you can get those pesky 9 wires pulled across.
Kudos to Li On and CKL; a couple of high-octane guys. A very clean and professional mod on the capture card. But this is a mod requiring proper tools, material, expertise and some time. Hats off to Dnewcomer who, as a recent new member, jumps in with both feet; I wish him success for his perseverance and look forward to hearing his results.
I have an AverMedia TVStudio (NTSC and FM) and a DRx3. I can confirm with what was stated by an earlier post that the GPIO pins of interest do not appear on either of the 2 header solder pads. And I think it somewhat of a long shot to find a capture card that does route the subject pins of the 878 to a header or header solder pad because there is not much of an engineering reason to do so.
Li On and CKL stated early on that a capture card w/o tuner is needed and I concur. It appears that 3 or 4 of the GPIO pins are used for tuner control. Someone stated that a card w/o tuner would be helpful for connection by using the pads of the non-existent tuner. Unfortunately, 1/2 or less of the subject 878 pins would appear there. In the case of the AverMedia card, it appears that the first few pass through another component on the way to the tuner (if that is the destination) and would not be of much help. Viewing the card through bright light, it looks like the balance of the GPIO pins go nowhere (no tracing) as might be expected. Initially I was hoping that if tracing were coming off the subject pins, it would not be hard to attach wires at PCB pass-throughs. But if tracing existed and it was not going to a header, it would most likely mean the GPIO's are committed to some purpose and, at a minimum, would need defeating!
Bleak analysis on by part I suppose; direct attachment to the 878 chip is a tuffy. Too bad something is not available that could be pushed over the top of the 878 which made side contact with the pins and facilitated easier wire attachment.
Hopefully, something and/or method will be found that allows this combo to be more readily exploited. I'll be giving it more thought and looking around but bbq@KL seems unbeatable when it comes to resourcefulness!
In the long run, a single card solution would be the goal. It seems that with so much CPU horsepower and DVD software players around and anything that seems to work being OK with the average Joe, Sigma Designs (RealMagic Xcard) must be in a bit of niche market with their $100.00 hardware decoder. They might have an ear if told that they could sell more cards for more money if they integrated 878 capture!
Regards,
DFA
P.S.: I'm not sure the title of this thread does it justice. It took me a while to snap to it (hence the late post) but I accept the lion share of that due to my ignorance and still-maturing HTPC newbie status. Nevertheless, I think that if "via PDI" were thrown in on the end, more traffic might be attracted. More traffic could yield more ideas about how to reduce the 878 card mod difficulty. This thing truly is a big deal / event and I would think this thread should be twice as big as it is now.
jkaiser
06-19-03, 02:31 PM
"Too bad something is not available that could be pushed over the top of the 878 which made side contact with the pins and facilitated easier wire attachment."
I did a rudementary search yesterday for a "Test clip" for this very purpose. I didn't get far. The main problem is that the chip is a SMT and not a more common test clip package like DIP. I am not sure how standardized the SMT packages are as far as number of connections per side - could be a hard nut to crack.
The test clip might also interfer with adjacent PCI slots - another downer.
Well, I ordered the Xcard, LeadTek capture card, and a very small slobbering iron. Total damage about $180. Will keep you all posted once I get it up and running, or fried chicken.
Thanks for the motivation.
Liver
dnewcomer
06-19-03, 03:58 PM
I was checking out DIY PCB sites yesterday, searching for some alternative solution, when I read about the test clip idea, it sparked another idea, maybe someone more experienced with printed circuit design could help out. anyway here the basic idea.
design a small PCB, say .75 x 1.5 inches, on one side that would go up against the bt878, would be the holes(?) where you could drop the end of the 30ga wire into touching the top on the legs on the 878, then from the holes, the circuit board would fan out on the other side, giving you a lot more room to solder. the little PCB board would mount on little risers to the capture card.
I apologize for my lack of PCB grammer, I will try to do more research, anyway just wanted to get the idea out of my head.
PS . I finished my 3rd attempt at soldering directly to the 878 last nite, hope to retest the connections, and install it tonight.
pdermody
06-19-03, 04:03 PM
dnewcomer,
3rd attempt? what happened with the first two?
-pd
tbdombrosky
06-19-03, 04:14 PM
What about pogo pins? Do you think they make any that are small enough to fit? Can someone measure the pins and post a width?
pdermody
06-19-03, 04:16 PM
regarding tuner based cards, anyone see a reason not to just remove the damn thing? or at least disconnect the pins in question?
-pd
dnewcomer
06-19-03, 04:40 PM
1st try ( Leadtek vp100 card): soldering part seemed successful, wiring to the 26-pin header seemed good, anyway everything looked good before installation. Installed cards, and powered up, nothing, so shut down, pulled out leadtek card and discovered the wires angled overtop of each other???,
2nd try ( picked up an AVERDVD capture card, available locally)
solder went good, this time i tried using silicon to immobilze the wires so they would stay put. anyway after the silicon dried, and was hooking the wires to the 26-pin header, I was testing for shorts, and discovered a short between two wires.
3rd try. (with the original leadtek card)
pre-attached wires to 26-pin header to facilitate testing for shorts after each solder. soldered, tested, unsoldered, soldered, tested, etc.
installed this morning, and tried briefly, but NO picture in Dscaler. plan on retesting connections from bt878, to header, to cable to verify everything ok,
plan for 4th attempt: (ordered another leadtek card from egghead. should arrive fri or mon)
LET SOMEONE ELSE TRY
I called around some local computer shops trying to find someone who didnt mind hacking on cards, and had the right equipment for micro-soldering. I found someone who seemed eager to try it as soon as I get the new card. they estimated $35-50 bench time to do it
Updated DI_MoComp2.dll and DI_TomsMoComp.dll (http://webhost.bridgew.edu/ylam/index.html) --- CX2388xCard_Types.cpp 17 Jun 2003 12:45:19 -0000 1.11
***************
*** 24,27 ****
--- 24,30 ----
//
// $Log$
+ // Revision 1.11 2003/06/17 12:45:19 adcockj
+ // Added new card for use with PDI --- DI_MoComp2.c 17 Jun 2003 12:46:28 -0000 1.3
***************
*** 26,29 ****
--- 26,32 ----
//
// $Log$
+ // Revision 1.3 2003/06/17 12:46:28 adcockj
+ // Added Help for new deinterlace methods --- DI_TomsMoComp.c 17 Jun 2003 12:46:29 -0000 1.7
***************
*** 32,35 ****
--- 32,38 ----
//
// $Log$
+ // Revision 1.7 2003/06/17 12:46:29 adcockj
+ // Added Help for new deinterlace methodsI got so many errors when I compiled DScaler.exe and I just could not figure out how to make it working.
BTW, here is an alternative player for Xcard:
http://www.digital-digest.net/downloads/files/eugene/DVDPLAYER.EXE
I also attached some useful freeware for Xcard. The zip file contains:
Girder plugin for DVDSpy (http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=63575)
DVDSynth (http://216.239.57.100/search?q=cache:www.roundelay.net/dvdsynth/prerelease.html)
PostMessage 1.0 (http://www.girder.nl/plugins.php) with Girder plugin for Xcard
Zone Selector (http://www.hplus.hu/zs/faq_gb.php) with patch file
If it comes down to direct soldering to the chip pins and nothing else, here is my two cents.
I've done my share of soldering over the years and, like everyone else, found certain tricks that work for me. Thinking about this project, here is probably what I would try to do:
First, I would try to solder to the vertical legs and not the surface mounted foot where it is already soldered. The wire would be projecting vertically from the PCB after initially being soldered. I would use something like power transistor mounting mica to slide in between the previously soldered leg (or the blank leg for the first connection) and the next one up at bat. Whatever material I used; i.e., mica, I would try to find something that fit a little snug. This would create a corner that I could lay the wire in, prevent overflow and/or accidental heat to the previously soldered pin and keep the wire about to be soldered as far away as possible from the next pin to be soldered (I believe that qualifies as a run-on sentence). I would liberally pre-tin and flux the end of the wire so that I only needed to touch and heat. After soldering was completed, I would apply Si glue across it all to enhance strength then roll the wires down. I would attach to the plug end last so that I was unencumbered by the entire assembly while attaching the wires to the 878.
Trying to create some kind, any kind of jigging helps immensely and reduces the amount of free hand (shaky hand in my case) and "third" hand requirement (another persons third hand, especially one's significant other, never works out; attached to different brain). I have a tool (brand name Mascot) that is a small, heavy stand with a pair of normally closed tweezers attached (are tweezers "pairs"?) that I would use to either help hold the mica barrier-cum-corner or the wire; what ever worked best. I would hold the circuit board in my small suction mount work vise. I would hold the board in the vertical position so that the solder joint would be horizontal and minimize "run down". Finally, I have a large boom mounted magnifier with a built-in full circle fluorescent lamp that goes around the 5" diameter magnifying lens. Success is much less likely without the aid of magnification. I use books and mags to make a wrist-rest of the right height so that shaking is minimized (I use a paper-back for the top book; King or Koontz preferably).
I would first find some old thing to experiment on before moving to the real thing and adjust the procedure to suit until I was confident and proficient.
Anyway, lets hear from the pioneers about their procedure and what seems to work best in order to minimize the fear and loathing.
Sooner or later I will give it a go and report in kind.
Regards,
DFA
P.S: I would hedge my bet by buying the Xcard AFTER the 878 mod. This is also in harmony with Murphy's law.
Great find BBQ!
I tried Eugene's Player. Works great.. Except for lack of spdif support. Well.. Couldn't get it working anyways.
Have you tried it with any luck? Thanks!
pdermody and dnewcomer:
Good question that got me thinking. Early in this thread Li On or CKL or someone recommended that the native driver(s) for the capture card NOT be installed. I see the Yoda-wisdom in that statement after giving it more thought.
For example, Avermedia makes a capture card with no tuner, a cap card with TV tuner and a cap card with TV & FM tuners & IR remote (Avermedia TV Sudio, the version I have). No surprise that if the Avermedia TV Studio drivers were installed, they would want control of at least some of the GPIO lines for what seems to be tuner control. That would not be good.
So what about the driver for the Avermedia capture card without tuner(s)? Well the driver should, but may not have the GPIO code for tuner control stripped out since, for the manufacturers purpose, does not matter if the driver takes control of the GPIO lines whether a tuner is connected on the end or not.
So, it may not matter that a tuner is present but probably matter a lot if the native driver is loaded. And it may even matter if the native driver is loaded for a non-tuner card if the native driver interferes, for whatever reason, with the GPIO lines.
The only other thing I can think of that might be a problem with the tuner being present would be some kind of impedance issue which could be resolved by opening the traces going to the tuner control.
This is another reason I am keen to see how dnewcomer faired because I believe he is experimenting with at least one card that has a tuner.
NOTE TO DNEWCOMER: Uninstall the native driver if it is installed and try again.
Myself, I won't be using my Avermedia TV Studio card. I want something cheap to experiment with; the cheap LeadTek has worked in Li On and CKL's proof of concept and the lack of turner gives more hand and visual access in order to perform the mod.
This is all guess talk, though, since I have no firsthand knowledge yet.
Regards,
DFA
P.S. Edit: I use my Avermedia card without the installation of any of the Avermedia drivers and DScaler works fine. W2K complains about "new hardware found" at boot up but can be remedied by disabling the device under device manager\device usage.
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=38123
I would use the latest btwdminstaller for cards based on Fusion 878A. Users of CX23880 or CX23882 cards might be able to use the HOLO3DGRAPH-II drivers:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2327598#post2327598
BTW, I just got this decoder for $15 shipped:
http://support.gateway.com/s/DVD/E00851/E00851nv.shtml
http://www.adeal.com/images/6000851.JPG
CIFELLI and Dell also have similar cards:
http://www.cifelli.com/cifePEG_C3.0.htm
http://support.ap.dell.com/docs/storage/7998d/En/specs.htm
ZiVA PC supports both CCIR 656 and CCIR 601:
http://www.asec.com.tw/product/data/206/ZiVA_PC.zip
The decoder with an ATI logo and that one should have more than 50 pins on it. Maybe 9 of them can be connected to the pin 66/79/80/81/82/83/84/85/86 of Fusion 878A without any problems. Suppose that decoder actually works with DIY PDI capture cards, the whole package might cost less than $150.
Tom Strade
06-19-03, 09:20 PM
I'd be careful trying our drivers. We load the FPGA image, setup the Fli2200/2300/SAA7118 and do a number of things that none of these capture cards are doing. While I doubt the drivers could harm the cards you are trying to mod, I thought I should tell you that our drivers are highly customized given all that goes on the H3D/H3D-II. That said, if they work then have at 'em!
Has anyone tried this Cinemaster card? Looks promising. I wish there were Linux drivers for either the XCard or Cinemaster DVD card. It may motivate me to do some Linux drivers for H3D/H3D-II.
bbq@KL:
Cool. You said that "maybe" the CCIR 656 pins are available somewhere out of the +/- 50 pins. So it is too early for me to run out and get one these cards.
Also, I was wondering about the hardware decoding quality among the different chips as well as old versus new. For example, some of us have old DrX2 and DrX3 cards around that are CCIR656 compliant but may not have the quality of a newer fabrication like Xcard, not to mention that my old DrX3 would require a mod hookup not much different than the 878 mod.
Anyone have any knowledge about the decoder chips themselves and how they stack up against each other? Right now, the Xcard is a known quantity based on Li On an CKL's work and has a header connection (a plus big time).
I myself, am afraid to get too many unknowns going such that I don't know if I've done a bad mod, bad cable, fried 878, tuner issue (if one is present), or some weird decoder mismatch because of a non-Xcard choice.
Regards,
DFA
bbq@KL:
Do you know yet the Ziva chip ID of the decoder board you purchased? The board seems to be circa 1998. I also noted that it has no I/O on the plate as opposed to the others you referenced which have composite, s-vid and analog / spdif audio.
I assume you do not yet have the board so can not report on the physical pin out of CCIR 656.
Do you think the Ziva, which apparently is built around the venerable Sparc [EDIT: Oops, that only applies to the more recent Ziva 5.0 for DVD players] to be a better performer to that of Sigma Designs? I myself am clueless. If price is any indication, the list prices for the C-Cube Ziva seem higher than that of comparable Sigmas. It seems LSI - C-Cube - Ziva have the majority of market share for hardware encoding / decoding.
DFA
At the beginning of this DIY project, I was worried the capture card's driver didn't activate the BT656 input. Without installing the driver, Dscaler can still show the picture. So having the tuner or not is not critical.
I've tried Dscaler for H3D plus Xcard. It can display the picture. But the picture quality is poor. So we need Dscaler 4.1.7 for 23880/2 capture card.
Has anyone been able to check the header pinouts on a Pinnacle PCTV Rave as to whether it the traces back to the bt878 provide the proper connections?
Originally posted by Tom Strade
I'd be careful trying our drivers. We load the FPGA image, setup the Fli2200/2300/SAA7118 and do a number of things that none of these capture cards are doing. While I doubt the drivers could harm the cards you are trying to mod, I thought I should tell you that our drivers are highly customized given all that goes on the H3D/H3D-II. That said, if they work then have at 'em!
Has anyone tried this Cinemaster card? Looks promising. I wish there were Linux drivers for either the XCard or Cinemaster DVD card. It may motivate me to do some Linux drivers for H3D/H3D-II. http://groups.google.com/groups?th=2ae8f603a1f972e3
There are Linux drivers for EM8400 and EM8475 should have support for Linux, too. We just need to pay for the reference and they will send us the development kit. Is it worth the money? Probably not.
I went home and got the decoder. I counted the number of pins and there about 100 of them. I have no idea about the pin assignment of ZiVA-PC since LSI Logic bought C-Cube about 2 years ago. No documentation can be found right now so CIFELLI is the only hope. Pretty hard to ask them for a favor without a nominal fee.
http://www.pennskog.com/cinemaster/hardware.htm
It is neither ZiVA 4.1 nor 5.0. Both of them are produced for consumer electronics but ZiVA-PC should be coputers only.
I have not really seen any PDI setup yet and it is quite difficult to tell whether ZiVA is better or worse.
RTK:
Check back through the thread a little ways and you'll find, as I recall, the unfortunate answer of no, the GPIO lines do not trace to a header.
bbq@KL:
Thanks for the response. I realized later after more reading that the Ziva 4.1 and 5.0 are for DVD players and that the more recent 5.0 is the only Ziva chip incorporating Sparc. I edited my post but did not beat your response. I still would be interested in the chip ID though. It looks like it starts with an IL but if you can't find any info on it I'm sure I would fair no better.
DFA
Steve_T
06-20-03, 04:35 AM
Has anyone checked the MSI TV@nywhere CX23881 PCI card?
geofstro
06-20-03, 05:02 AM
dnewcomer,
LET SOMEONE ELSE TRY
You're a brave soul for making those attempts. I've decided I'm not going to attempt it, at least during the summer when it's far too hot and I know I'd screw it up.
I hope your guy at the computer store manages to succeed.
If he does, would you be open to putting together a package with him that some of us could order?
I really think it would be the only way most of us could enjoy this cost effectively.
geoff
Originally posted by Steve_T
Has anyone checked the MSI TV@nywhere CX23881 PCI card? Only CX23880 and CX23882 can support PDI.
dnewcomer
06-20-03, 11:05 AM
Originally posted by CKL
Hi,
The pins assignment are as follows when you face both cards.
From left to right:
2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16,18,20,22,24,26
1,3,5,7,9,11,13,15,17,19,21,23,25
Xcard--------------H3D
2------------------12
4------------------14
6------------------16
8------------------18
10-----------------20
12-----------------22
14-----------------24
16-----------------26
18-----------------4 (clock)
Xcard's 7,9,11,13 have the signal that don't need for PDI. That's why they are disconnected.
It seems to be different from what I posted regarding Xcard to 878. But they actually are the same. Only the numbering is different. The pins having signal are on the upper row.
this post really confuses me,
can someone confirm the correct Xcard pins for PDI out to the bt878 card,
I am not sure I understand why the pins would be different, unless I different signal was being passed to the H3D.
because I had a 878 card wired to 1,3,5,7,9,11,13,15,17 as was originally described, and documented at htpcgear, but got no picture in Dscaler, so I am not sure whether I shorted a connection or wired it wrong.
ALSO:
would any settings in the xcard config effect the functionality of the digital out signel? (composite, component, RGA, etc)
I noticed some discussion on the sigmadesigns forum regarding the digital out port and it was mentioned that an additional dll might be required,
rm32vpe.dll ???
and finally, when selected the silk 100 input in dscaler, I have choice of silk 100 c-video or silk 100 s-video, both seem to give me the SDI option, does it make any difference???
The dll in question is:
rmvpe32.dll
It gets added to the system folder and enables the VIP port during normal operation of the Xcard. I am not sure if it is required for this mod, perhaps Li On or CKL can comment.
If you want the file, it is available at:
ftp://ftp.sigmadesigns.com/Xcard/
widman
pdermody
06-20-03, 11:53 AM
indeed, you do need the dll file as widman mentioned above. could have sworn bbq@kl mentioned it, maybe not.
-pd
dnewcomer:
Yes, I caught this as well and scratched my head. The Xcard 1,3,5.... seems to be prevailing, but......
A pin number does not change. But he does say that the signals are on the upper row which would be 1,3,5....
On the Xcard, try a continuity check between 1&2, 3&4, etc. Maybe they are common to each other.
Also, I don't know if you caught it or not but if you have installed the native (manufacturer's) driver for the capture card, try uninstalling it. DScaler will work fine w/o the native drivers installed. There is a possibility that the native drivers could interfere with the GPIO lines in my opinion. It was recommended early in the thread not to install the native drivers which seems prudent.
DFA
Tom Strade
06-20-03, 12:04 PM
Originally posted by Widman
The dll in question is:
rmvpe32.dll
It gets added to the system folder and enables the VIP port during normal operation of the Xcard. I am not sure if it is required for this mod, perhaps Li On or CKL can comment.
If you want the file, it is available at:
ftp://ftp.sigmadesigns.com/Xcard/
widman
You do not need it. The bt656 output is enabled without it. If you add it you will be altering the output to accomodate VIP inputs on graphic cards that can accept it.
pdermody
06-20-03, 12:06 PM
Tom,
Ok, i stand corrected. I was just going by what Nagui said over at the sigma forums. Thanks for the clarification.
-pd
jkaiser
06-20-03, 01:47 PM
This looks interesting...
http://www.adapters.com
"Adapters.com makes adapters for all types of applications. With thousands of parts available off-the-shelf and custom solutions available in as little as two weeks ARO. "
They even have a build your own adapter.
Anyone care to try to contact them about a 878A SMT adapter with solder points?
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