PDI card Xcard Dscaler support thread

[Li On]

Hi,

The following comment fits the operation of PDI card, Xcard and Dscaler, for me, YMMV.

In motherboard BIOS, make sure Plug&Play OS set to NO. It should be this way by default, I think.

Operation system, Windows XP. I guess other Windows OS should work too.

If you have the Xcard, make sure it's working Before insert the PDI card. That means:

1. you already have a working Xcard before getting the PDI card.
2. you get the Xcard and the PDI card at the same time.
3. you get the PDI card and still waiting for the Xcard.

Case 1, all is fine.
Case 2, install the Xcard first, make sure it's working, then install the PDI card.
Case 3, wait for the Xcard and install it first, without the Xcard, the PDI card has no use.

Xcard - installation

Download the latest driver and player application from Sigma at http://www.sigmadesigns.com/support/download_xcard_win2000_xp.htm

Install the Xcard and connect the remote senor to a COM port. Boot up Windows and it'll find the Xcard and ask you for the driver. Then install the Xcard player application and select the correct COM port for the remote.

PDI card - installation

Install the PDI card and connect the ribbon cable to the Xcard pin header. Boot up Windows and it will find new hardware and ask for a driver, select Cancel at driver installation. Windows should find 2 devices for driver, select Cancel. You do NOT need to install a driver for the PDI card.

Goto My Computer->Property->Hardware->Device Manager and you should see 2 devices with a ? mark. These are the unknown devices of the PDI card. Right click the 2 ? mark device and select Disable. Then right click it again and select Enable. Then Windows won't find the 2 devices again and ask for driver when next boot up.

Dscaler - installation

Download the latest Dscaler 4.1.7 at http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/deinterlace/DScaler417.exe?download and install.

When the Dscaler startup it will find the PDI card and ask you to specify the capture card brand/model. Select SDI Silk 100 (C-Video Jumper). Make sure the SDI Silk 100 is selected in the Sources menu. In Bt Card menu select Video Input->SDI.

Xcard - Dscaler, operation

Start the Xcard player, I use the XMP v1.2. Click SRC icon and select a DVD-ROM drive. Play a DVD and you should see the picture in Dscaler. Use Xcard remote to control the DVD player like the standalone DVD player and adjust picture setting in Dscaler.

Xcard player - initial setup
Open XMP v1.2 Configuration box,
- in DVD tab under Preferred 16:9 Display Mode, select Wide.
- in Video Adjustment tab reduce Brightness from default 600 to 500 or 510, I use 510, I also increase Contrast 1 step to 510, leave the Saturation at default 500.
- in Audio Setup tab, under Output, select Compressed S/PDIF for DD/DTS pass through from Xcard coxial digital out at the back panel.

Dscaler - initial setup
- under Settings->Video Adjustments, change Brightness to around 0, I use 2, Contrast MUST at 130, Color around 130-140, I use 135.
- under Settings->Image Shift/Size Adjustment, reduce Top/Bottom/Left/Right to 6 from default 12.
- under Filters, select Sharpness and Chroma.
- under Filters->Filters settings, select Sharpness Filter and adjust Sharpness Value from 96 to 128 (default). I use 112.
- under Filters->Filters settings, select Chroma Filter, select Vertical Low-Pass Filter and enable it.
- under Deinterlace, select your preferred video deinterlace mode depends on your CPU power and taste. I use Video (MoComp2). Better than DCDi IMO.
- under AspectRatio, select your source (DVD) and display (desktop/projector) aspect ratio for a proper picture.

Just leave the Xcard player XMP v1.2 in the background and watch the picture fullscreen in Dscaler.

Last but not least adjust the Radeon overlay to fine tune the picture. My setting is all overlay value at default except Gamma at 1.2

More later.

regards,

Li On

[MentholMoose]

I don't think the Chroma filter and MoComp2 deinterlacer are included with the 4.1.7 installer... at least, they were not in the DScaler directory after I installed 4.1.7 (I didn't have any previous versions installed).

[Li On]

I see. I attached the MoComp2 and Chroma filter here. Unzip the file into Program Files->Dscaler

regards,

Li On

[pdermody]

So Li On, what cards you going to ship out to ppl? Your modded Winfast card, or the Atman PDI card?

-pd

[kazushi]

I've received ATman's PDI card. Thank you for deal and update, Li On.

For who don't know how to connect this card and Xcard, check this connecting picture Xcard and PDI card (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2366486#post2366486). I didn't know how to connect. And, I spent over 30 min to find this out, so I'm leaving a link here for you guys. hehe. Good luck. :D

[MorpheusSzeto]

You can also find info about Atman's PDI card at his site

http://www.pmsvideo.com/index_product_view.php?did=1576&didpath=/1576&page=1&imgid=7613

Morpheus

[tubesguy]

Thanks Li On (and Atman) -

Got mine yesterday, in bulletproof packaging. Now I face my usual problem, no internet connection where I have a CD burner and no burner where I have an internet connection. Getting the various bits of software is the only thing hanging up the project. Does anyone know of anyone distributing these pieces of software on CD? TIA - Pat

[lawdawg]

So Kazushi, you had to know we would bombard you with questions about how this setup works ;)

Time to dish!

[cryptAWD]

Received my card today and installed it. Install and setup took less than 15 minutes. No problems at all, just followed the directions on pmsvideo.com. I haven't had time to tweak the settings so I'm just using Li On's numbers for now. All I can say is WOW. The image is pretty amazing out of the box, colors are extrememly vivid and everything looks more "3-D". I don't know how else to explain it. Details are much clearer, you can see the fibers in clothing for example. This is compared to TheaterTek with ffdshow resize/sharpen and the Xcard without PDI (which is pretty bad IMO).

I had two friends watching with me, both of which are clueless about HT and normally don't see a difference when I do a tweak here and there. This time though, they both noticed right away. That says a lot right there if you ask me :D I'm sure once I get everything tweaked to my setup it will be even better. I can't wait!

Problems: I'm noticing a slight stutter every once in a while. It happened 4 or 5 times in an hour movie. I'm not sure if it's the movie (T2 Special Edition), the processor maxing out (P4 2.4GHz), Dscaler settings, or what. I noticed a similar report in the DVD-ROM to Dscaler thread. Unfortunately, all of my DVDs are at my sister's house and I have nothing else to test it on. No one else watching even noticed them until I pointed them out so it's very slight. Will research this more tomorrow after work.

Brian

[Li On]

Hi Brian,

Put the Dscaler in window (not fullscreen) mode and check the buttom status bar. For film source content, it should read a 3/2 pulldown mode. Check if the 3/2 pulldown mode switchs to some video deinterlace mode such as TomsMoComp and if the stutter happen at the same time. Check to see if the stutter always happen at the same spot.

You may also disable the Drop to Video mode on Bad pulldown under the Deinterlace menu.

To improve film mode detection, change this Dscaler setting:

Advance Setting->Pulldown share setting->Bit Shift from the default 12 to 9-11, I use 11.

regards,

Li On

[cryptAWD]

Thanks for the info. I was thinking it was a problem with the detection settings but didn't know where to fix it. I'll try it tonight and post the results.

Brian

[Li On]

Hi,

In Dscaler, under Settings->Advance settings->Logging Settings->Debug Logs, unselect the Debug Logs.

Make sure under Settings->Advance settings->Field Timing Settings->Sleep Interval is at 0. And select Judder Terminator under Deinterlace menu.

Btw, I think Dscaler 4.1.7 does have the chroma filter included.

regards,

Li On

[tlamano]

Received my pdi card today, I'll install it this weekend and report to the thread. Thanks Li On.

Tom Lamano

[cryptAWD]

I got my DVD collection back from my sister and have tried ~10 different DVDs with the Xcard/PDI combo now. The only DVD that shows the stuttering problem is T2. It figures that the only DVD I had at the time would be the only DVD to show this problem. It happens at the exact same spot every time, but only on the video running through DScaler (watching the Svideo out from the Xcard shows no stutters).

Back to the good news... All of the other DVDs I've watched look simply amazing. I have done the tweaks to DScaler suggested by Li On since my original post and everything seems to run very well and very stable. The only problem I have seen so far is DScaler crashes WinXP if I start it at the same time that I start the Xmedia player. Wait 1 second and all is well. I just put a 1 second delay in myHPTC, which I use as a frontend, and it is perfect every time. The image is excellent, as close to HDTV as I've seen from a DVD. Next I will try a DVI cable for that extra little bit. I have not had time to A/B the PDI setup vs. TheaterTek as I have just been too busy enjoying the picture. :D Now if I could only find a site that details what each setting in DScaler does, I could tweak to my heart's content.

[SHS]

Jee this thing way to much at $100 it eazyer just to get older ATI or nVidia board and make use of the VIP which can pick out now day far less then what they want for PDI Capture Card which I think is way to dran much in cost when TV acrd cost far less and have more stuff on it like to me there a 500% to 700% mark up here.

[kazushi]

lawdawg,

Hi. I had no time after that. Wish review by CryptAWD help you. :D

Anyway, the quality of PDI combo is fantastic. And, dScaler's de-interlace works great for the case of video encoding DVDs. I couldn't make ffdshow work flawlessly, so tried dScaler way. I was occasionally using external DVD player and dScaler through S-Video. It was OK but PQ was not good. This PDI shows great quality, and dScaler is wonderful. $100 PDI and $86 Xcard worth to me. And, the cost is still less than regular external DVD player. ;)

One problem I have is somehow blocked picture problem. One music video clip on a DVD shows everything as little block. Seems like original source is painted by 2x2 blocks instead of 1x1. On TT, this clip shows much jaggy but overall picture was acceptable. However, on Xcard everything is blocked. I guess this is the source problem, so it's OK. I just want to say I had this difference.

I don't want to justify the PQ here since I'm still waiting for shipping of Digital Video Essentials 2003.

[JohnAd]

I've started a discussion of neutral xcard/dscaler settings here

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=279929

John

[tubesguy]

Quick thanks, this is really a remarkable combination, really unbelievably good for the very low cost.

Question, though: How do I "enable" the chroma vertical lowpass setting? I can highlight it, but it doesn't seem to "stick" when I exit that screen.

Using Li On's suggested settings and enjoying the view - Pat

[mhamel]

Just a heads-up - I've posted a brand new XCard/PDI Card bundle over in the classified forum. I purchased it from LiOn, and am not going to end up being able to use it.

-Mike

[tubesguy]

I just noticed that there is a driver for the PMS card available on the website. I realize that it's not necessary, but is it recommended for any reason? TIA - Pat

[Brett]

Li On,

Thanks for the package! Got the cards & ribbons last week in the first batch. Didn't cheer at once as I haven't had time to get it all running as my father broke his hip. Did spend some late night hours trying to get "something" to work, pulling cards, reinstalling software and drivers, to no avail.

After failure to get the PDI card to work with the X-Card, I hooked the X-Card to the Holo3D (first version with second version drivers = problem?) and don't get a pic either... :(

I hope I won't have to entirely rebuild the HTPC, reformat the hard drives and reinstall the OS - don't have the leisure to do so.

Could Atman's drivers which Pat mentions be at fault?

[Li On]

Hi Brett,

That's weird. Can you get anything from the Xcard direct VGA out and/or audio/SPDIF? Is the Xcard not working or the PDI card has problem? Is the Xcard driver installed alright?

And make sure "Plug&PrayOS" is disabled in the BIOS. What is your HTPC setup (hardware/software)?

Can you try the Xcard/PDI card on another PC?

regards,

Li On

[jimwhite]

Originally posted by Li On
And make sure "Plug&PrayOS" is disabled in the BIOS.
Li On

care to enlighten us on that one????

:confused:

[bbq@KL]

Setting Plug and Play BIOS Settings
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/treeview/default.asp?url=/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/reskit/prdh_dmt_odlv.asp

[JohnAd]

What are poeple using for a region free solution on the xcard?

John

[Li On]

Hi John,

I use DVD Region Killer.

regards,

Li On

[Brett]

Hi Li On,

I wasn't really voicing a complaint - just wanted you to know they got here great! However, as we all know, PCs aren't instant endeavors. My father's going under the knife tomorrow so I won't be back at the task until he pulls through. FYI I'm using an ASUS CUSL2 with a 1GHz P3, a MP-1 modded Parhelia, an early Holo3dGraph (conflict with Atman's PDI card?) and W2KPro.

Cheers,

[Li On]

Hi Brett,

Take care of your family first. Wish you all the best. The package can wait.

Since I included a Xcard to H3D ribbon in your package, I hope you didn't use the wrong cable for each card.

This is the ribbon cable to the PDI card:
http://www.tradebig.com/member/5231/diy/Ribbon_Cable_500.jpg

This is the ribbon cable to the H3D:
http://www.pmsvideo.com/member/5231/gallery/7237_Holo3d_cable_500.jpg

regards,

Li On

[Brett]

Hi Li On,

Yes, got them (thanks!) and plugged them in right as per the pictures on Atman's website. Also followed your instructions at the top of this thread to the letter, but have never used X-card before. I suspect that it is the culprit. I assumed it required a software player other than the XMP v2x: I can choose sources, it shows it is playing, but I don't see any output. Does it require PowerDVD or DScaler or another external player for display purposes, or is it supposed to provide an image inside the on screen Xmedia panel?

[Li On]

Hi Brett,

I guess the Xcard XMP player has no display on the Windows desktop. It's own output is at it's external VGA port and/or it's TV out. You may try Xcard's own VGA out and/or audio/SPDIF to make sure the Xcard is working. You may also try Xcard's DirectShow filter in GraphEdit to get a desktop overlay display of some MPEG2 file.

Can you get Dscaler 4.1.7 to work with your H3D? I never use the Parhelia. And neither Win2K.

If all fail then I guess the only choice is a clean Windows XP install or try it on another PC. Or else the Xcard really has problem...

regards,

Li On

[Brett]

Hi Li On,

I'll try out the X Card's direct output, but my problem is similar to Liver's who also uses Windows 2000:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2405381#post2405381

I'd rather try other stuff before a full reinstall. I'll see if it works on my other boot drive, a Windows 98 SE install which hasn't been updated since numerous hardware changes... any reasons this combo wouldn't work on that OS? This way I'll know if it is OS related and if a reinstall is in order.

TIA

[MentholMoose]

Does it require PowerDVD or DScaler or another external player for display purposesYou HAVE to use DScaler. Go back to the first post and follow the directions.

[Brett]

Hi Moose,

Thanks for the heads up - I tried it with the latest DScaler and with the latest H3D software. I only wondered if for regular "standard" use (without PDI output) the X-Card also worked with a software player or Windows Media utility. Li On clarified that, that in regular "standard" use, the X-Card only sends its output to external cables for VGA or S-VHS/Composite display wires.

I'll do as Li On says when I get the time: test the X-Card's standard external output. Then test the H3D again, with the latest drivers (still not for PDI input?), using external SDI and S-VHS sources, then test DScaler with the H3D on those external sources, to at last try to get H3D software and H3D hardware to work with PDI from the X-Card, or DScaler and H3D Hardware to work with PDI from the X-Card, or reinstall Atman's card and try to get it to work with PDI from the X-Card. :rolleyes:

[Li On]

Hi Brett,

Indeed! So many options! And don't forget to try a different PCI slot!

Sorry that it's not a plug and play process for you...

Wish you luck! :)

regards,

Li On

[tubesguy]

Hi folks -

Let me try a third question: Has anyone tried to calibrate the Bt card in Dscaler by using Video Essentials test patterns? I tried last night, and couldn't get past the first screen of the color section. It would lock up and nothing I did would move to any subsequent screens, so I had no access to the required test patterns. Very frustrating.

Anyone interested in something like the Chicago White Sox "Death to Disco" night where, instead of burning disco records, we burn copies of VE? This is possibly the most annoying and frustrating piece of consumer goods that I've ever mistakenly purchased. The navigation, whether using an external DVD player or, now, Xcard, is just maddening. End of rant - Pat

[Phil Smith]

Well I'm glad to read that at least some of you are getting your PDI cards. Unfortunately for me it's not working out so well.

I thought I had sent my PayPal payment weeks ago, but Li On PM'd me Thursday a week ago and said he could not find record of my payment. I checked my PayPal records and indeed I had not sent it. I'm not sure why, but somehow it didn't go through the first time. I sent a PayPal payment that day and checked my account to make sure it had gone through, which it had. I don't hear back from Li On, so Wednesday I PM him, asking if he got my payment. As of today I still hadn't heard from him and I'm starting to get a bit pissed. So I PM him again and ask if my PDI card had been shipped, and if it hadn't, refund my PayPal payment. PM tracking shows he read both PM messages within minutes of me sending them. He STILL has not contacted me.

I tried to keep this private, but at this point I don't know what else to do.

Li On, I WANT MY MONEY BACK!!!

[cryptAWD]

I calibrated mine with Avia and had no problems at all.

Brian

[Clark Burk]

Tubesguy, I've not had any trouble getting the calibrations to work, but I do question the accuracy of the results. I've tried the Avia and VE and both give different results. Make sure you have the screen size setup right since the program uses the placement of boxes in certain areas to make its measurements. Start with the tests in the order that the Dscaler help file recommends to get the best results. I have found the settings that Li On recommends to be quite workable however.

Overall I'm quite pleased with the picture. I also have the latest TheaterTek installed and the picture from both is excellent. I rate the two about even on picture quality from film sources, with the Xcard/PDI having better quality on video sourced material. The features and ease of use favor the TT however. I'm still playing around with all the options and settings in Dscaler so hopefully I'll get continued improvement in the picture department. I am considering increasing my processor speed as I feel that my P4 1.6 does not give me enough horsepower to experiment with all the available options.

There should be quite a few Xcard/PDI combinations in operation now so hopefully others will start to share their experiences both good and bad. It's definitely an amazing picture for the cost of the Xcard and PDI board.

[tubesguy]

Thanks Clark -

My problem is just that I can't get to the VE screens. I can get to the first color calibration screen and can't move beyond it to the chapter with all of the various test screens.

A little disconcerting to hear that you are getting different results with VE and Avia. Perhaps you should try THX, another precinct heard from, and split the difference of the two closest.

It would be nice to get "correct" settings out of the HTPC before finalizing the setup on the projector.

Thanks again - Pat

[Clark Burk]

Pat, Go to the Xcard control panel and push the button that brings up the keypad. Enter the Title and chapter in the boxes and push the go to button. Once the player finds the title and chapter push pause to freeze it and go back to the Dscaler screen and you should have the correct test frame. Use Dscaler help to locate the correct title and chapter info for the test DVD you are using. Hope that helps and let me know if you get differing results with the various test discs.

[faithfoo]

2) With a PDI & X card combo , will there be a difference in Picture quality or colour fidelity on a 70 inch by 70 screen ( DVI out from ATI Radeon card to VGA input of projector

a) ATI radeon 9200
b) ATI radeon 9500 or 9600

b) Sources include VHS tapes via D scaler ( HTPC), DVDs, Mpeg 1 ( Mpg ) files

[tubesguy]

Hey, thanks again Clark. I'll give this a shot tonight. - pat

[JohnAd]

Originally posted by Li On
I use DVD Region Killer.


Hmmm so do I but I just blue screens everytime in RegKill.sys whenever I play a DVD with it enabled. I tried to get a later version but the main web site doen't have the download anymore. Where is the latest version?

Region selector seems to work OK.

John

[RobScreene]

Hi John,

I use 2.5.01 on WinXP and on WinME before that, never any problems with WinXP Xcard or WinME/TheaterTek.
http://www.digital-digest.com/dvd/downloads/dvdrk.html


regards,
Rob.

[kazushi]

AFAIK, the latest version is 2.7.0.2. The main web site doesn't have this one anymore, but you can find this by google. Type "region killer 2.7.0.2"

My SetupRegKill-2.7.0.2.exe crc is 7588. crc32 is 58C2C8F5.

[JohnAd]

Thanks guys, managed to get it working at the weekend, 2.7.0.2 seems to work properly, there was a bug fixed in 2.7.0.0 to do with the Intel Application Acceleratr which was probably causing my problems.

I got the chance to play around with it some more and it looks like the format autodetect issue might not be soluble which is annoying. when running PAL material while in NTSC mode I get NTSC timings.

Also I converged on settings of all 500 on the xcard and all 128 on the card. This seems to give a clean pass through but I need to check it out some more.

John

[tubesguy]

Thanks to Carl's help, I was able to use VE to set up the PDI card, and got pretty close to 128s with the Xcard's settings at 500.

A problem arose, however, when I then went to the projector to set brightness and contrast with Video Essentials. I couldn't find the "blacker than black" rectangle on the white level screens. Is it possible that the Xcard-PDI card combo is not able to pass the blacker than black signal?

Again, TIA - Pat

[RobScreene]

I too noticed this. I found reducing Xcard brightness to 420 gave me correct black-level setting and revealed blacker-than-black of I upped my display's brightness.

This also reduced some peak white streaking on my CRT projector, which I think it a combination of a common CRT issue combined with the Radeon not being able to drive a fully hot peak white level along a 5m RGBhs cable.

regards,
Rob.

[tubesguy]

Thanks Rob -

I'll give this a try, too. - Pat

[JohnAd]

Originally posted by tubesguy
I couldn't find the "blacker than black" rectangle on the white level screens. Is it possible that the Xcard-PDI card combo is not able to pass the blacker than black signal?

I think the bt878 chip will clip at 16 unless you set the full luma range on option to on, I tried this breifly and found that the settings changed markedly so I just went back to the ones I siad, but I'm guessing there is a combination of settings on the bt878 only that will allow you to see blacker-than-black and have clean signal with the full luma range on

John

[RobScreene]

Hi John, I'm using a holo3d (no Dscaler), oh yeah, that probably uses cx chip over the philips chip for the bt656 input, right?

I wonder why other SDI/PDI holo3d users haven't complained about no blacker-than-black then?

I do remember when Spatz first tried the Xcard in to a holo3d, he reported higher black-levels than expected, then realised the contrast and brightness on the Xcard effect the bt656 output.

I suspect the Xcard levels are not the same as most SDI output players, but then again I've read a few comments that it's the same?

cheers,
Rob.

[geofstro]

I received the PDI card from Li On about two weeks ago; but haven't posted my experiences yet, since I only just managed to get it working.

Firstly, to cut a long story short, I'll say straight out that there doesn't seem to be any way on my system that this combo will work without a driver. My system may be a little atypical in that it's an older Pentium III based PC (HP Kayak XU800) which I'm using while I'm in the process of selecting the parts for my final HTPC, which will be based on a Pentium 4.

This experience has also caused me to decide on the most powerful P4 available for my final HTPC, since dScaler obviously needs all the CPU power you can throw at it.

I followed Li On's intructions to the letter.

Installed the PDI card and connected it to my xCard (which was already installed and working in the PC).

I only referred to Atmans site to make sure I had the ribbon calbe oriented correctly as per the pic.

Booted the PC and went into BIOS set-up to make sure PNP was set to "no".

The two devices the PDI card represents were found by windows, so I cancelled both requests to install drivers and went into device manager to first disable then enable each device, so windows wouldn't bother me about them again, as per Li On's instructions.

Put the Matrix in the drive, fired up xCards player and used Li On's settings in the xCard configuration, and started to play the DVD.

When I launched dScaler it got stuck at hardware init and failed to respond.

I then went through hours of reinstalling both cards, changing the PCI slots and cable orientation, and the result with dScaler was always the same.

Finally I started looking through the dScaler support forum and in one thread a problem someone was having getting dScaler to start with, I think, the Leadtek Winfast 200XP card, was finally cured using the generic driver for BT878 based cards from sourceforge.

I downloaded and installed this driver using it's default card detection.

After that dScaler started and prompted me for a card, so going back to Li On's instructions, I selected the SDI Silk 100 c-jumper option.

Then when I launched the xCard player, I started to see some output although it was a mainly green garbled mess. Still this gave me encouragement; but thinking there must still be something wrong with my installation, I unintalled the driver and started reading Atmans site for support in the PDI-xCard combo. It wasn't until then that I realised that Atman has been advising to use this same generic driver all along. Of course, I probably should have read this from the beginning; but I relied solely on Li On's instructions until that point.

I still had the green garbled screen at this point, then I remembered reading somewhere here that, the output in xCard should be set to s-video and I had it set to VGA. When I changed it to s-video, eureka!!!, the image came through as it should through dScaler

So guys you're doing a great job in making this package available; but we do have conflicting information here.

So what's it to be, driver or no driver?

The generic driver available from Atman's site is the same one I had already downloaded from sourceforge; but there are a lot of options for which card to select, when you install this driver. Atman advises a completely different card, which then also has four different CCIR options from within dScaler.

Perhaps even folks who've got this working without a driver may want to consider a driver option, since there are so many possible card options to choose from when you install the driver (probably just about every BT878 based card ever made), so surely, which of these you choose could make a difference to the eventual result within dScaler.

There's no harm, that I can see from trying out different driver options. You could always uninstall the driver and go back to a no driver situation, if you wish and that works for you. No harm done.

At the moment I'm running with the SDI silk option; but I'll probably give Atman's advised card option a try and maybe it's even worth trying some others.

The result?

Well as I say, it's only a Pentium III system at the moment, so I do get occasional frames dropped and I have to limit my filter options within dScaler; but compared to watching Matrix with the Ravisent software DVD player last weekend, the best way I can describe the difference is this:

My wife and I have a huge open air cinema near us and we went there on Monday to watch the Matrix reloaded. Now of course this is a much larger screen than we have at home, etc. but we were sitting some way back from it, and I felt it had much more of a sense of drama, and the ability to draw you into the story, than I was achieving with the software DVD player on Matrix 1.

Now with the PDI-xCard combo I'm getting that same sense of drama at home. I just wanted to go on watching Matrix 1, even though I only put it on to test out this combo, I finally saw it through to almost the end, which resulted in a very late night.

I think it's a case that the images were too flat with the software player; but with this combo they're more three dimensional and palpable and the colours are more vivid (using Li Ons settings with some additional eyeballed tweaks)

So, once again thanks guys; but I wish this driver issue were clearer.

[Li On]

Hi geofstro,

Good to know you're up and running! Sorry that my install instruction don't work for you. It works for me and I'm sure it works for some people too. Maybe it's the other PC hardware combination and/or Windows version issue.

Glad to know you like the PQ! :)

regards.

Li On

[geofstro]

Yeah, I like the PQ very much and can't wait to see what it can do on my real HTPC when I get it up and running.

It's been a pioneering effort on your part as well as Atman's and CKL's, so it's not surprising that one set of instructions may not work on all possible configurations. For the record I'm also using Win XP pro on this old machine.

I hope others can benefit from my experiences and perhaps some experimention with driver/card options may pay off.

regards


Geoff

[kazushi]

I'm using generic driver for my PDI card downloaded from Atman's site. I installed it with specifying the card is SilkC100. I have no problem after that (It means I had few problems before. ;)).

[faithfoo]

With a PDI & X card combo , will there be a difference in Picture quality or colour fidelity on a 70 inch by 70 screen ( DVI out from ATI Radeon card to VGA input of projector

a) ATI radeon 9200
b) ATI radeon 9500 or 9600

* * Sources include VHS tapes, mpeg 1 sources via D scaler ( HTPC), DVD s, playing back dv tapes (* via firewire in from digital camcorder into HTPC and output to projector )

[faithfoo]

From what I gather, the PDI & X card combo is definitely
better than Theatre tek combination with FFDshow & zoomplayer ?

[Clark Burk]

Just wanted to thank Li On and Atman and any others including all who have worked on Dscaler for their time and efforts in creating what is presently the best DVD playback in my home theater yet. Thanks again and here's to hoping that with faster processors and continual refinement of the Dscaler program that even this excellent level of playback will be improved upon.

[gordf]

not defined error 77 when I try to run the xcard program. I downloaded the files from sigma and the pdi from altmans and the drivers installed without a hitch after I unzipped them. All help will be welcomed, thanks, gordon.

[geofstro]

gordf,

Have a look under System-Hardware-Device manager:

The xcard should show up under Multimedia/Video controllers as a Sigma Designs xCard. If so right click on it and check "Properties" and verify that "the device is working properly". If it isn't or the xCard doesn't show up under device manager, or it shows up as a question mark, you haven't installed the driver properly.

In that case make sure you have a downloaded copy of the latest driver on your hard drive together with the xCard application.

First uninstall the xCard application you installed previously by removing it using "add/remove" programs under the Control panel. This will also uninstall the driver.

Then reboot and Windows should find the xCard again and prompt you for a driver. Use the option to install a driver from the location you specify, then locate the xCard driver from the location you downloaded it to, on your hard drive.

Once the driver is correctly installed, locate the xCard application from the location you downloaded it to and run its setup program. You will need to have the remote control IR receiver connected to COM2 before doing this. The application installer will ask you which COM port the IR receiver is connected to.

Reboot and check again, under device manager to make sure the xCard is showing up correctly, and working properly. Now you should be able to launch the xCard app with either the mouse or the power button on the supplied remote.

If nothing showed up in device manager on your first check, you probably don't have the xCard physically installed properly. Open up the case and make sure the card is firmly seated in the PCI slot. If it is, then, if possible, try a different PCI slot and repeat the driver uninstall/reinstall process above.

Hope it helps


geoff

[kevt]

I just bought a PDI-Xcard combo last week. Been having problem installing.

I had a Winfast TV2000XP installed before. Installing the bt driver for the PDI card was unsuccessful. Not even after I uninstalled the Winfast driver and reinstalled the bt driver that came with PDI card.

After many various attempts, I decided to reinstall XP from scratch. Before that I even unplugged the TV2000XP card. My PC only left with the following:

HW:
ATI Radeon 9600Pro
PDI-Xcard combo
Sound card and network are both mobo-builtin (also P4 2.0, 256Mb, 60GHD)

SW:
XP Pro
Radeon driver
Xcard driver
PDI driver
Dscaler
Xmedia player
ASUS mobo drivers for onboard sound, network, and USB

Reinstalling all from scratch gave me no problem in installing drivers for the combo card. Dscaler recognize the card and I followed exactly the procedure and settings on the manual that came with the software CD. The problem is there is no picture showing in the Dscaler window, just total blackness. I installed Dscaler 4.1.7 in the first time and I also tried 4.1.6 on the CD. Both have the same result.

Can anyone help? THanks

Kevt

[kazushi]

Did you specify SDI as dScaler input after installing everything?

[kevt]

Yes, I did (SDI C-Video) according to the PDI manual.

[Atman]

Hi Kevt,

Did you select the right "Video Input"? i.e. SDI or CCIR.

[kevt]

I did select SDI

[Atman]

Hi Kevt,

Is there any output from the VGA port of Xcard if you connect the Xcard to a VGA monitor? Please also check the ribbon cable connection.

[gordf]

Well last night while trying to get my computer ready for a CHTG meeting I ran into similar problems with respect to the "wait" error I mentioned above. So I followed the email that sigma designs sent me on how to uninstall everything. And noticed (after a couple of tries at it) that because I was a user I had to remove the Sigma designs folder from the Local User Hot Key section rather than the Local section. After I removed this folder, I followed Li On's' (he's very possesive) instructions exactly and am now the proud father of a working combo. THanks all for your help. I'll post a brief review of the picture and digital sound quality vs. Theatertek whenever I get a chance to tweak a bit. Thanks again, Gordon.

[OTS]

Hi!

I am using myHTPC as my HTPC front end and girder to control the remote come with the XCard. I can add the 2 programs (Xmedia Player and DScaler) to the PROGRAM item under myHTPC such that they both start simultaneously but how can I turn them off together instead of closing them one of one manually?

Thank you

[faithfoo]

0) From what I gather, the PDI & X card combo at pmsvideo.com is definitely better than Theatre tek combination with FFDshow & zoomplayer ?

1) With the US 190 PDI & X card combo , will there be a difference in Picture quality or colour fidelity on a 70 inch by 70 projector screen ( DVI out from ATI Radeon card to VGA input of projector

a) ATI radeon 9200
b) ATI radeon 9500 or 9600

* * Sources include VHS tapes, mpeg 1 sources via D scaler ( HTPC), DVD s, playing back dv tapes (* via firewire in from digital camcorder into HTPC and output to projector )

[pdermody]

probably not, its all overlay - and I think the overlay quality of all three cards mentioned are the same depending on drivers. if and when dscaler supports vmr9 instead of overlay you may benefit from a newer core found in the 9500 and higher.

-pd

[AV Big Boy]

When I use the PDI + Xcard combo to play DVD with subtitle on, I found there is "horizontal stripes" in the subtitle occasionally. Is there any tweak to cope with this. Thank you

[silentshooter]

Big Boy,

To avoid combing (wrong deinterlacing) in Video material,
disable automatic film/video detection,
disable Judder Terminator,
enable Video(Mocomp2).

;) ;) ;) ;)

[AV Big Boy]

But this was happened in the film material not video !!

[trbarry]

They were supposed to come out with a second Xcard that could play HDTV resolution MPEG-2 (mp@hl?). Did that ever happen?

- Tom

[faithfoo]

Originally posted by pdermody
probably not, its all overlay - and I think the overlay quality of all three cards mentioned are the same depending on drivers. if and when dscaler supports vmr9 instead of overlay you may benefit from a newer core found in the 9500 and higher.

-pd

1) any idea when D scaler will support VRM 9 ?
If D scaler does support that, I believ those 9500 and 9600 will be much better in colour fidelity and resolution .

2) If I am not wrong, the second Xcard that could play HDTV resolution MPEG-2 IS STRICTLY FOR HDTV .playback , or it could be used to capture anlog signals ( composite in ) as well ?

[CoZZm0]

Hello all,

I got an xcard, it was all running sweet, i've modded a Leadtek VC100XP card and made a cable. everything kinda works, except the colours in dscaler look like they are only coming through as 256 colours not high colour. Big time dithering around the image. i've attached a jpg screenshot from dscaler. my colours in windows are set perfectly. the problem occurrs on DVD's and VCD's and with both XMP V1.2 and 2.0 and JovePlayer. The output to TV is still working fine, the conenctions to the card all look fine. it seems like more of a settings issue than a bad connection as the picture is stable, but looks horrible ! any suggestions welcome !

[Li On]

Hi CoZZm0,

You need to goto the other LONG thread and redo your cabling/soldering! Sorry!

regards,

Li On

[CoZZm0]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

hehe ..

i've read through the long thread a couple of times, i guess i didn't really focus on the problems that other people were having. Time to read through it again ... d'oh ... well at least i didn't blow the card up ....

Do you think the cabling could be just too long? or bad soldering? i'm leaning towards the cabling being too long actually... i might try to shorten the cables first before i try and remove the soldering as i might infact create more problems by removing the soldering...

Cheers.

[Li On]

Hi CoZZm0,

How long is your cable? It can't be too long for a internal connection from Xcard to the mod card. Mine is around 6".

Besides the lenght, you may try another one too.

These dithering effect happens on my external PDI mod with a 36"+ cable!

regards,

Li On

[CoZZm0]

Originally posted by Li On
Hi CoZZm0,

How long is your cable? It can't be too long for a internal connection from Xcard to the mod card. Mine is around 6".

Besides the lenght, you may try another one too.

These dithering effect happens on my external PDI mod with a 36"+ cable!

regards,

Li On

mine is 8" from the xcard to the PDI card and the wiring on the PDI card is about 3" .. i'll try a shorter cable, and i'm going to re-do the wires on the PDI card to make them exactly equal length and as short as possible.

Thanks for your fast replies.

[CoZZm0]

First of all, Many thanks to Li On for your help.

PDI card now working much better, found a loose connection on one of the solder joints, ended up re-working 4 of them because of their close proximity! now with a shorter cable all is MUCH better.
Only tested it out on my slow PII266 (i.e doesn't matter if it blows up) and the only thing i can pick now is that on static screens the screen seem to kind of waver or pulse a little bit ... but during hte movies its not noticable.. but i think that may be due to the speed of hte machine not really getting above about 10FPS at the moment ... but other than that mod complete and i'm happy that it works !!

Many thanks again to all for the mounds of info !

[soren]

I finally gor my XCard today, and installed everything in my HTPC.

I got some problems though... DScaler is dropping filed/frames like crazy (10-15 DF/s). Everything stutters as you would imagine.

I have a P4 1.8 GHz which should be more then enough.
I tried different deinterlacers, same thing.

When I have automatic film /video detection on, dscaler is very confused and keeps switching all the time.

Any ideas?

[kazushi]

Try all filters off once and just use only deinterlace. This may reduces the frequency of stutter.

Try to use MoComp2 or something as a deinterlace algorithm. And see how it works. If it works fine but automatic detection doesn't, check Xcard player configuration. Make it sure to use 16:9 screen configuration.

In general, 1.8GHz would be fine. However, filter algorithms really consumes memory bandwidth. I think dScaler is memory bandwidth sensitive rather than CPU speed. I'm not sure how much memory bandwidth is required.

Anyway, in general, it's good idea to try dScaler without filters and stop all background program before the beginning. Then, enable one to one. Good luck to you.

[soren]

Trust me... I tried :(

Pretty much everything .. turning on / off .. 16x9 on/off combinations etc ..
No difference what so ever... must be something seriously wrong with my installation of DScaler... I tried reinstalling into clean dir and everything.
Running XCard with svideo to the projector works fine.

Is there any other version then .17 that will handle PDI cards?

[CoZZm0]

I have DSacler running on my Dual P31Ghz, unfortunately, Dscaler is not multi CPU aware so its only using 1 CPU. I can run it with mcomp2 and sharpness filter on and it will have 0 DF/S, cpu hovers around 48-50% usage all the time. As long as i don't use the computer at all it works fine.

System Config:
DualP3 1Ghz
MSI 694D Pro (via based)
512MB PC133 SDRAM @Cas2
XCard
Modded Leadtek VC100XP
Win2K SP3
DScaler 4.1.7 setup as per the guide at the start of this thread.

[faithfoo]

May I ask how much does it costs to do a XCard + Modded Leadtek VC100XP

I am aware that X card + PDI combo is US 190 at pmsvideo.com

Are the 2 combinations achieving as good a quality in picture output

[CKL]

Hi Soren,

I've tested P4 1.7 & 1.8 with PDI combo. Dscaler runs smoothly plus sharpness and chroma filter. Please be reminded that the auto detect function at Dscaler doesn't always work correctly. You have to select it manually some times. At correct deinterlacing mode, the picture should be smooth.

Good Luck

[CoZZm0]

Originally posted by faithfoo
May I ask how much does it costs to do a XCard + Modded Leadtek VC100XP

I am aware that X card + PDI combo is US 190 at pmsvideo.com

Are the 2 combinations achieving as good a quality in picture output

I can only tell you how much it costs in AUD$ 'coz i'm an aussie, so:

Xcard: AUD$200
VC100XP: AUD$75
wire wrap was so expensive, identical stuff to what people in the US have paid USD$2 for cost me AUD$13.00 !!!
26Pin Ribbon Cable and Connectors AUD$~10 (more cable than i needed but was handy to test with)

Anyways, yeh i had to rework a couple of the solder joints and it took a bit of time to work out the shortest cable length arrangment but all done and complete.
The picture quality should be no different if you buy the PDI card from PMS or if you mod it yourself, providing you make good solder connections there should be no difference.

[MentholMoose]

For me it was:
XCard - US$90
VC100XP - US$30
Parts - US$10

The parts I had to buy included the male and female headers (about $0.10 each) and the ribbon cable (about $10 for 10 feet, the minimum quantity I could buy was 10 feet even though I only needed 3 inches :rolleyes: ). I had everything else (wires, solder, etc.).

I think someone posted that the PDI card actually gave a slightly better picture compared to a modded VC100XP but I'm not sure. If there is a difference it must be very small.

[dr.myung]

Hi Soren,

Try to turn on DMA for the DVD ROM. I had the same problem until the DVD ROM DMA was turn on.

Ming

[soren]

I'm pretty sure DMA is turned on, it used to be anyway and I have not turned it off :)

And besides, the XCard works fine. If you use svideo to the projektor there is no problem. It is when you use DScaler through PDI it stutters and drops frames like crazy.

I have a very basic graphic card ... ATI Radeon VE running at 1280x720 using powerstrip settings, but that should not be any problems right?


Any DScaler experts out there that knows any ini flags I might try?

[soren]

Actually, the dvd-rom has been switched to PIO mode for some reason???
I'll try to get it back to DMA.

Also... looking at the picture, you see the entire image "jumping" up and down. Does that give you any ideas?

[soren]

I installed intel application accellerator to fix the DMA problem. It seem to have worked. Not entirely smooth yet, but I'll play around with DScaler a bit.

[DFA]

Off topic somewhat, but I got hold of a Zoltrix TV Genie capture card, soldered in a header and made a cable for going to the Xcard (Xcard has not yet arrived so nothing to say on results).

The off-topic question is does anyone know if I can still get a KBK mod for the S-Video input on this card? Is there DIY information about the KBK mod?

A search on this forum and the "Processors" forum does not turn anything up other than a few comments that were made earlier in this thread. It seems Ken Hotte is "KBK" (or perhaps Karnis aka Wayne Harrelson; some confusion on this).

Anyone have a lead?

Thanks,

DFA

[kevt]

Can anyone share with me the best settings for PowerStrip and Dscaler for the following gears?

HTPC: ATI Radeon 9600Pro, PDI+X-card combo, XP Pro, PowerStrip, and Dscaler 4.17
Projector: Panasonic AE-100
Plasma: Samsung SPM-42P2HS (Resolution (Pixels) 852 x 480)

Thanks a lot.

Kevt

[DFA]

Bump....

Anyone got a lead on the KBK mod?

DFA

[kazushi]

DFA,

Did you try following thread? I saw people were talking about how to use KBK mod capture card for PDI purpose. I'm not sure their talk answers your question or not, though. It's worth to try and ask there, I think.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=267735

[faithfoo]

Originally posted by soren
And besides, the XCard works fine. If you use svideo to the projektor there is no problem. It is when you use DScaler through PDI it stutters and drops frames like crazy.

I have a very basic graphic card ... ATI Radeon VE running at 1280x720 using powerstrip settings, but that should not be any problems right?


Any DScaler experts out there that knows any ini flags I might try?



Can I know ...via D scaler for analog sources.., the Xcard + PDI Combo should work best with DVI out from ATI Radeon card to hook on to either VGA or DVI input of projector, ...( why should we use s video to projector ? )

Can somebody describe what's the exact problem the above quote ...."It is when you use DScaler through PDI it stutters and drops frames like crazy".

[kazushi]

Faithfoo,

Soren was saying, if he use S-Video output on XCard, there is no problem. This case, only XMPlayer is running. If he try to use dScaler, the output stutters and drops frames.

In general, this happens if CPU horse power and PCI/memory bandwidth are not enough. However, he is using 1.8GHz. So, we imagined he misconfigured something. And, we tried to suggest him to check system configurations. I hope he solved his problem by fixing DMA of DVD ROM drive.

BTW, Atman posted his new coming video/PDI capture card on this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2583312#post2583312). It seems awesome. Check it out if you have an interest. :)

[faithfoo]

Can I know ...via D scaler for analog sources.., the Xcard + PDI Combo should work best with DVI out from ATI Radeon card to hook on to either VGA or DVI input of projector

Is the above statement the best way to to it ??

[faithfoo]

1) With the US 190 PDI & X card combo (Pmsvideo.com) , will there be a difference in Picture quality or colour fidelity on a 70 inch by 70 projector screen ( DVI out from ATI Radeon card to VGA or DVI input of projector

a) ATI radeon 9200
b) ATI radeon 9500
c) ATI Radeon 9600

* * Sources include VHS tapes, mpeg 1 sources via D scaler ( HTPC), DVD s, playing back dv tapes (* via firewire in from digital camcorder into HTPC and output to projector )

[CKL]

No matter using VGA or DVI, PDI combo can show their advantage. For video card selection, I pick up 9500 128M if your HTPC have enough power supply and space for heat releasing.

[faithfoo]

I infer from the Pms website that it will be best to have a DVI input for the projector ( as compared to VGA input )

1) Any idea if this combo would yield better compared to a CRT projector with no DVI input ?

2) would 9200 radeon produce a colour fidelity and resolution as well as the 9500 ?

[CKL]

Do you mean the performance of DVD player VS HTPC with PDI combo to CRT projector? Or HTPC-software DVDP vs HTPC with PDI combo to CRT projector?

The difference between different Radeon is not night and day. I've AB compared 7500 built by ATI with 9500 powered by ATI via VGA out. 9500 has better picture quality. I have 9200 but I'm lazy to compare it with 9500. If your budget is limited, then go for 9200. If you don't mind to pay a bit more, then go for 9500.

[faithfoo]

I gather that teh PDI + x card combo is certainly better than Theatretek

What I mean is using PDI + X card combo

the best should be
1) from DVI out of ATI radeon to DVI input for the projector ( as compared to VGA input of projetor )

2) How about comparing this PDI + X card vs a CRT projector with no DVI input ? ( compare it with item 1 )

[CKL]

VGA vs DVI
(1) VGA vs DVI
If you are using digital projector, then DVI connection is the best choice no matter you are using HTPC+PDI, HTPC+software, DVDP with DVI out. If your digital projector has no DVI input, then you have to use VGA. At VGA, you can still see the difference between software DVDP and PDI combo. It is worth to get PDI combo for digital projector with VGA input only.

(2) In the case of CRT projector,
I've watched PDI combo at Sony G70. The advantage of punch, 3D feeling, high resolution (more detail) from PDI combo is still there.

PDI combo will show most of the detail from the DVD disc. It won't hide the artifacts stored in the disc. For playing poor encoded DVD, DVDP may be better.

[faithfoo]

1) Can you explain why poorly encoded DVDs ..software DVD player may be better than PDI + X card combo ( i believe you are referring to theatr tek )

2) how about for Analog sources such as VHS tapes and Mpeg 1 sources ( VCD) , will PDI + X card combo be better than say Theatre Tek



I guess it;s not appropraite to compare the performance of PDI + X capture combo between DVI input of digital projector vs the VGA input of CRT projector

[CKL]

====================================================
1) Can you explain why poorly encoded DVDs ..software DVD player may be better than PDI + X card combo ( i believe you are referring to theatr tek )
====================================================
No, I'm comparing with standalone hardware DVD player. No matter SDI or PDI, they will show most of the detail stored in the DVD. I mean "rubbish in & then rubbish out". In comparison standalone DVDP show less detail. Therefore the artifacts by bad encoding is less visible at standalone DVDP.




=====================================================
2) how about for Analog sources such as VHS tapes and Mpeg 1 sources ( VCD) , will PDI + X card combo be better than say Theatre Tek
=====================================================
The present PDI card from Atman has no analgoue input. You can't connect VHS VCR to PDI card unless the new PDI deluxe is released. Xcard can play VCD but I don't compare it with software DVDP.



=====================================================
I guess it;s not appropraite to compare the performance of PDI + X capture combo between DVI input of digital projector vs the VGA input of CRT projector
=====================================================
Agreed. It is not the topic of PDI but CRT vs digital projector.

[faithfoo]

how about for Analog sources such as VHS tapes and Mpeg 1 sources ( VCD) , will PDI + X card combo be better than say Theatre Tek
==================================================
===
The present PDI card from Atman has no analgoue input. You can't connect VHS VCR to PDI card unless the new PDI deluxe is released. Xcard can play VCD but I don't compare it with software DVDP.



QN :: Does the following achieve as good a quality
My impression is that I connect a VCR into the composite input of TV tuner card ( say fly video 3000)
use d scaler to scale up the VHS source , then output it via DVI from radeon to projector

** does the following mean I Cannot tap on the PDI + X capture capability

[CKL]

You can use flyvideo 3000 to receive analogue signal from external euqipment and Atman's PDI card to receive digital signal from Xcard at the same. Then select the hardware at Dscaler to view either one.

The DAC at Flyvideo 3000/2000 is quite good. Connecting VCR to them is the best solution. Generally speaking, the tuner in VCR is much better than that in PCTV card.

[faithfoo]

Padon my ignorance
Are you saying that with the flyvideo taking in signals from external VCR , i would not be able to make use of the capability of PDI + X card ,

I can only tap on D scaler to improve quality of VHS tapes

2) you are saying to use the VCR's TV Tuner to tune TV programs , given it is a better tuner than the fly video

[CKL]

The signal path is :

(1) DVDROM > Xcard > PDI capture card > Dscaler > Video Card > Projector
(2) VCR > Flyvideo > Dscaler > Video Card > Projector
(3) "TV signal > VCR tuner > Flyvideo > Dscaler > Video Card > Projector" is better than "TV signal > Flyvideo Tuner > Dscaler > Video Card > Projector"

[soren]

To someone wondering if I got everything up and running... Yes!
For some reason the DMA setting on the DVD drive had be reset to PIO mode... don't ask me how.

I guess I should have checked that sooner, but I "knew" that it was set to DMA .. I blame the Gremlins! I installed Intel Application Accelerator hoping it would enable DMA, and it did.

My computer should be able to handle TomsMoComp2 deinterlace, but it seem to be struggeling. A p4 1.8 MHz... maybe I have too many services/programs running in the background.

I remember reading of a ini flag (long time ago) that you could use to allocate more resources to Dscaler, at least I think so. And it was not thread prio, it was something else... anyone know what the flag was/is?

/Sören

[DFA]

I think I have asked this question before, but did not get a response. While most of the needed information and setup requirements for PDI are well documented, I have not seen anything definitive about preferred PCI slot usage: shared vs. unshared (unless I missed something then please point me in the right direction).

I know that some of those experiencing unexplained difficulties have moved cards around to different PCI slots which may or may not have resolved their particular problem.

Is there anything that can be said as to the preferred PCI slots for the decoder card and capture card such as "the decoder should be in an unshared PCI slot while the capture card can be in a shared slot"?

There are four possible combinations:

1) Both cards in shared PCI slots.

2) Both cards in unshared PCI slots.

3) Decoder card in unshared PCI slot and capture card in shared PCI slot.

4) Decoder card in shared PCI slot and capture card in unshared PCI slot.

I am interested (and perhaps others) to know your arrangement (1 - 4), if known, for a successful, trouble-free working PDI installation.
Information from Holo users equally welcome and valid.

Regards,
DFA

[DFA]

CKL:

Do you know anyone using FlyVideo 3000 (SAA7133) and a Conexant 878A based capture card in the same PC with DScaler?

I tried putting two (2) similar capture cards that use the Conexant 878A in my HTPC and W2K and DScaler only seem to recognize one of the two cards. Is this because they are both 878A chips?

Regards,

DFA

[kazushi]

I have IOmagic PC PVR card and PDI card in single PC. Both are using the same or similar chip. IOmagic driver can be installed for both, but PDI card stops working if IOmagic driver is installed on it. What I needed to do is to install each driver for each card. I wrote down the slot number of both to identify them. Then, installed correct driver for each of them. There was no big problem.

[CKL]

DFA,

I don't compare the result for different PCI slot. I've installed Flyvideo 2000 and 878A PDI card in the same HTPC. Dscaler can handle both of them. I've tried 878A PDI plus 878A TV tuner card, they crash when both drivers are installed. In that case, I suggest to install the PCTV driver only and then Dscaler can receive the signal from either card. Dscaler can communicate with the card without driver installation in the Windows. You can select SDI Silk 100 at Dscaler for PDI card and then whatever PCTV card you installed for another 878A card.

[DFA]

Here's a tough one:

I'm trying to use an ATI MPEG2 decoder card that uses the C-Cube Ziva PC chip. These can be had for anywhere from $1.00 to $10.00 tops off ebay. This is also known as the Cinemaster C 3.0 hardware decoder card. W2K (I think XP also) has drivers included from MS for this card. But one needs to update the drivers to use the bettter Cinemaster / Ravisent v1.9 player and blah, blah, blah.

The problem: The Cinemaster card expects the dot clock signal to come from the video card; it does not generate a dot frequency like the Xcard. And in turn, the PDI card gets the dot frequency from the MPEG decoder card.

Soooo.... Does anyone know where I can pick up the dot clock signal on the ATI 9500, non-pro, ("L" shaped memory). The dot clock is aka the DAC frequency. It can be calculated by multiplying the number of pixels per horizontal line times (1.25 to 1.3) times the horizontal frequency. It is usally many MHz. It would be nice to find it on the solder pad for the header that accepts the daughter card for a second DVI output like the FireGL. I suppose I could look around for it with a scope but was hoping someone might know. I checked with Mike Parker but said he didn't know.

Anyone??? LiOn, CKL, Atman ???? Have a source? Need help on this one. This could prove to be a really cheap PDI setup for a little solder work.

Regards,
Dane Anderson

[DFA]

bumpl....

[DFA]

bump....

[CKL]

Sorry, I have no idea how to get the dot frequency from the video card. Are you sure there is BT656 signal from the ATI MPEG decoder?

[Martin Rendall]

Quick question: is there a way to get the raw XCard digital audio out to my on board audio SPDIF output? Currently, the only way I can get audio is to use the XCard SPDIF output, but that's not going to be very convenient in the long run.

Thanks,
Martin.

[kazushi]

Some people said they connected XCard digital audio out to their sound card like SB and passed signal through the sound card digital output. XCard has digital output on board and backplane. Sound card must have internal or external digital input and ability to synchronize input to pass it through.

I tried it with both Audiophile 2496 and RME Digi96/8 PST, but these didn't synchronize well. AP2496 pass-through sounds pop once per 30 minutes. Digi96/8 pass-through cannot sync well. Therefore, I'm just using XCard output directly.

[Martin Rendall]

Interesting.... thanks! Can anybody recommend a good (and cheap) coaxial to optical converter?

Also, has anybody noticed any lip syncing problems with the combo? Can DScaler fall behind, if not configured right?

Thanks again!
Martin.

[ASubPi]

M-Audio CO2 is a S/PDIF bi-directional coaxial to toslink dual input/output converter. You might find it on line for around $60.

http://www.m-audio.com/products/m-audio/CO2.php

[DFA]

CKL:

Here are locations of information on card:
Gateway (support.gateway.com/s/DVD/E00851/E00851tc.shtml)
Pennskog (www.pennskog.com/cinemaster/hardware.htm)
Cifelli (www.cifelli.com/cinemaster.htm)
The ATI / Cinemaster card is available in an all-internal connection version and an external / internal connection version. I have one of each for experimentation. Note that Cifelli still markets the card for a rootin-tootin, boot-scootin $497.00.

Click on "digital video connections" definitions on Gateway support site. There is an error in Gateway's pin definitions: All points marked as "Vss" are in reality ground points. ATI's is a 40 pin extended VFC / VIP header that they term "AMC". But the first 26 pins are the same as any other VFC / VIP connector such as Xcard. VFC / VIP specification allows bidirectional for pixel clock, blanking, horizontal sync and vertical sync depending on pullup voltage status's on other pins (direction is device dependent). For example, the Xcard should have 5 VDC on pin 11 on the VFC plug which informs the video card that the pixel clock will be supplied from the external device

The thrust is that the ATI has no VGA output and hence no DAC and DAC (dot) clock hardware (and no 5 VDC on pin 11!). The ATI as well as the capture card need to receive the dot clock pulse from the video card if it is to work; no doubt about that. I will look for the pixel clock with scope on the 70 pin solder pad header on my ATI 9500 in the next couple of days. I will be surprised if it is not there.

DFA

[CKL]

DFA,

From the pin description of http://support.gateway.com/s/DVD/E00851/E0085102.shtml

I think Y1 to Y9 ( DATA0 to DCLK) are enough to transfer BT656 signal to PDI card. I only tap these signals from Xcard. Other are useless in this purpose.

[DFA]

CKL:

Yes, that is correct and I understand this. But the issue is that the XCard generates a pixel clock, the ACard (ATI) does not. Hence in order for it to work, if it is to work at all, the pixel clock needs to be sourced from the video card. This will require some extra mileage that most people won't be interested in (assuming I find the clock on my Radeon which some inquiries have resulted in nay saying but I am not easily deterred).

Which does bring up a question in my mind. What is the pixel clock of the XCard running at? In normal usage, the VGA pass-through from the video card would allow the XCard to pick up the horizontal and vertical syncs allowing the XCard hardware to sync to same, including the pixel clock which is easily derived from V and H sync values. What does it default to in the absence of any knowledge of what the video card is doing? (or does it source this information through software; i.e. the drivers). I'm not suggesting that this a problem, but wondering as to the behavior of the XCard and what the pixel clock frequency is running.

DFA

[Li On]

Hi DFA,

I'm no modder so my question may sound stupid... What "pixel clock" do you need?

For a standard bt656 digital video, there are only 8 bits data and a matching 27MHz clock line. There are 9 links (lines) total.

We just tap the 9 bits from the XCard (with some ground bits alone the way).

I'm now using a external PDI modded DVD player to a bt878 PDI modded card. The connection is the same 9 bits link with some gound pins.

regards,

Li On

PS: or you mean your ATI MPEG decoder has no bt656 27MHz clock and you need to get it somewhere else?

[DFA]

Li On:

A dot clock (DCLK=dot clock=pixel clock=DAC freq, etc.) of 27 MHz can be translated to 720 x 483p at 60 Hz. And yes I need to source this clock from somewhere for the ACard.

Scaling to the resolution and refresh of the video card ultimately must be done when running at the base 27MHz value. But can the 878A take a higher pixel clock, i.e.; the same as my video card; and hence no scaling required? For the resolution and refresh I run to my DLP, the dot clock is 74.25 MHz. This is my stupid question.

The ZIVA can take a clock value in excess of 100 MHz (I had found some definitive info on this but can't seem to relocate it; didn't bookmark it as I should have)

So I just intended to find it (DCLK) on the video card, make a quick hookup and learn for myself; success or understand the error of my ways and be all the wiser for it.

DFA

EDIT:
The ACard does have a 27 MHz crystal on board for at least clocking the Bt865. I believe pin 49 of the Bt865AKRF is the clock input for this chip. The clock line on pin 18 on the VFC header goes directly to the Ziva decoder chip. Perhaps all I need to do is back feed this clock to this point. Please standby as I dig deeper. Seems that this thing (ACard) should have the potential to work. Anyone who knows something I don't or am missing, don't hesitate to point me in the right direction.

DFA

[CKL]

You only need 8bit data plus 27MHz clock feeding BT878. All these data including clock are the standard of BT656. If the MPEG decoder can output BT656, it must include the clock.

The scaling and output timing to your display device is handled by the video card but not Xcard nor ATI hardware MPEG card.

[tubesguy]

Hi folks -

Quick update on the lack of "blacker-than-black" issue with the Xcard-PDI combo.

I got Mike Parker's MP-1 mod 9500 the other day and decided to install it and really get the projector (Barco Data 801S) dialed in. I first tried the suggestion earlier in this thread by RobScreene to set brightness at 420, but after auto calibration thru dscaler, still no blacker-than-black from the Video Essentials test patterns.

Yesterday, I was browsing thru the Immersive forums, and found another post by Rob about similar issues with the H3D-Xcard combo. In it, he suggests setting _contrast_ on the Xcard to 420, with brightness at 500. Tried that, ran auto calibration, and, voila, was able to adjust brightness and contrast more or less perfectly using VE patterns. Blacker-than-black was back.

Thanks to Rob and others for getting this combo dialed in. - Pat

[DFA]

CKL;

Thanks.

Yes you are quite correct. I have narrowed the issue down to the player or drivers which are not happy with some set of conditions and are not allowing the ACard to output the pixel clock and 8-bit pixel data. The native player window says "Dispaly mode not suitable for DVD playback". This persists no matter what standard resolutions and refresh rates are chosen. But worst, the decoder blocks itself from outputing the clock and data stream. The decoder does (or can if I can get it working) output Bt656 compliant data stream. The problem now appears to be a SW issue and not an HW issue. The drivers / application seem too smart for their own good.

I'll keep taking a stab at it. Nothing to lose. Would seem nice to have an alternative to the Xcard. And a cheap one at that.

DFA

[CKL]

Xcard will always output the signal no matter what kind of device is connected to it. ATI card doesn't output the signal if it detects the connection is not VIP. This may be the difference.

[DFA]

CKL:

That is basically the conclusion I came to as well. But I could not find enough active pins on the ATI VFC connector to see how it was being done in hardware (pins for blanking (VIP clock), horiz. sync, vert. sync., SDA & SCL, etc. do not trace out) . Any ideas on how to fool it into thinking it is connected to a video card VIP? Otherwise, dead project.....RIP!

EDIT: Beyond this fundamental problem, there may be another not yet encountered. The Native CineMaster 1.9 player will, ofcourse, open a viewing window. The window will have no picture but the player uses overlay. Using Dscaler to view the picture would mean two applications are trying to use overlay which, as I understand it, is a no-go. Time to call it a day? It was fun while it lasted.

Any other decoder candidates out there?


DFA

[Martin Rendall]

OK, another question for you all. What is the ideal desktop (windows) resolution to run for watching DVD via. dscaler. I must admit, the more I read, the less I understand what's going on. Very enlightened, yes, but not very helpful. :)

For example, since DVD is 480p and 4:3, does it not make sense to run a 640x480 desktop resolution? Or maybe 720x480? Or maybe 854x480? Or perhaps something totally different?

Or would it be the case the DScaler will do a good job at, say, 800x600?

Thanks!
Martin.

[CoZZm0]

You should match your desktop resolution to the native resolution of your projector or TV. If you have a CRT projector then you should use the projector's "sweet spot" resolution.

The reason for using the whole combo is that the computer acts as a very efficient scaler for any resolution, no matter what projector, or what material is playing, it can scale to the native resolution without artifacting that may occurr if you were to just plug the signal straight into your projector and lets its on board electronics do the scaling. This is mainly cirtical for DLP and LCD projectors, also for Plasma screens. Anything that has a "fixed pixel" type thing will need to have the native resolution as the signal to get best results.

[Martin Rendall]

OK, say my RPTV does 480p natively (that is, none of that internal scaling to 540p crap). So I should run x by 480 desktop. Question is, what is a good "x"? Or does it even matter?

Thanks again!
Martin.

[CKL]

DFA,

If you can find old PCI video card having VIP, you can connect ATI MPEG card to it and then tap the BT656 signal from the PCI video card to BT878. But it is troublesome.

[DFA]

CKL:

I have finally found somewhat of a reference for the Ziva decoder chip here on page 31 of the PDF doc. This is a design document for a MoBo with the Ziva chip integrated as part of the design. At least it identifies all of the chip's pins but sans any detailed description as one would find from the manufacturers "white sheet". The Ziva has three parallel digital video output ports, one of which is at least CCIR601. http://eng.segyung.com/ads/download/ia/i-stb/schembom/mlb_b1_3.pdf

On the ATI decoder card, there is a Bt865 video encoder chip for SVideo output. I attached 8 wires at the data input of the Bt865 coming from the Ziva decoder and ran these up to the header along with clock. I now can get picture in Dscaler from capture card (Zoltrix with added header). But colors are drab and weak which don't seem correctable with color control.

Which brings me to ask this question: The input to the Bt865 should be CCIR601. But what is the difference between CCIR601 and CCIR656? I did some research but was unable to determine the exact difference. It seems that 656 is built on or an extension of 601.

Of further interest, if you look at the pinout on page 31 of the referenced document, at the lower right corner, you'll see two dual function pins (182 and 183) as SDATOUT1/DVC0 and SDATOUT2/DVC1. I suspect the function of these pins are controlled by SCONT1 and SCONT2, pins 132 and 131 respectively, which are shown at the lower left. Do you suppose that this could be used for a serial output for SDI? If so it might be able to work with Atman's SDI capture card or Silk card. Serial output of pins from Ziva would be high impedance. Any speculation on any this?

I'm just experimenting for the sake of it but learning some things by my efforts.

DFA

EDIT: I have tried a different DVD disk than initial check yesterday. First disk was "Minority Report"; colors were crummy. Tried "Star Trek Insurrection" and ATI decoder looks pretty good. But currently viewing on 17" monitor; HTPC not connected to Sam HLM507W during WAF's extended remodel so not really definitive evaluation, just a working not working commentary.

[dbenn]

I have recently installed a pdi/xcard combo and am very pleased with
the results. Would like to use my WinFast VC100 XP for s-video input
with dscaler for dss system. I have not been able get both cards
working with descaler (latest version 417) have tried oem drivers
and btwincap installer. descaler sees both cards (pdi & winfast)
but no video from either. Has anyone been able to do this?

[Atman]

Hi dbenn,
Please install one driver only. If you have installed the WinFast driver, please remove other BT8x8 drivers.
Regards,

[Archos]

I´m thinking of buying this combo. A few questions: Does the Xcard support Xvid-movies? How good is the spdif out from Xcard compared to a M-Audio Revo for example?

Which kind of PJ´s have you tried with this setup, LCD, DLP or CRT? I myself have a CRT, any experinces of those?

I know screenshots are difficult but it would be nice to see some comparing screenshots of a crt PJ with this setup and with a software player! Anyone?

This is a beginners question, but what is a "video based" dvd?

[dbenn]

Hi Atman,
Thanks for the reply. The PDI card was working well with the btwincap
drivers so would it be a good idea to use BTinstaller to uninstall all
drivers and then go thru the RS-bt install again.
would this allow both card to work.

[RobScreene]

Perhaps I'm a luddite, but I don't notice a sound quality difference between:-

a) TheaterTek+m-audio 2496 audiophile S/PDIF dolby digital
b) X-card DVD S/PDIF dolby digital
c) Arcam DVD 88+ dolby digital (1K UK player with renowned audio quality, compared to TheaterTek m-audio at a friend's on the Mordaunt-Short THX Select speakers off a THX select Pioneer 2011 AV amp.)
d) Sony DVD-725 (a few years old but well respected low jitter S/PDIF at the time)

All this through my THX Ultra Denon AV amp, Linn Index II mains, Kef 200C centre, THX Ultra power amp driven isobaric pair 10-inch subwoofer, etc, etc. Usually at about -8dB from reference level.

There may be a tiny subliminal difference, but I really don't notice any at all. Whereas the kmixer issue with 44.1 CD-audio immediately bugged me when I upgraded to Win XP until fixes with an ASIO winamp plug-in.

regards,
Rob.

[DFA]

For those that are using the PDI Xcard, how are you getting your 5.1 audio if you are using your HTPC also as a pre-pro???

I am using a modded ATI / Cinemaster Ziva decoder in lieu of the Xcard. Video now working good with PDI into modded Zoltrix capture card. PQ in Dscaler seems very good.

But I have not figured out how to handle the audio. I am using an Asus A7N8X deluxe which has an SPDIF input on the MB (TTL level). I tapped the SPDIF TTL output from the ATI decoder card and shot it into the MB SPDIF input. The result: repetitive clicking static at analog outputs. It seems the A7N8X can encode DD 5.1, but not decode. Dooh. What to do short of adding an external pre-pro?

I seem to be missing something fundamental. I have a sign on my neck which reads "Will work for 5.1 analog output"

DFA

DFA

[CKL]

DFA,

"Video now working good with PDI into modded Zoltrix capture card"
It means Ziva decoder can output BT656 signal because 878 chip doesn't support BT601 siganl.

How do you get the sound from ATI MPEG card before modification? The sound signal should still output in the original path.

dBenn,

You better install Winfast driver for VC-100 and no driver for PDI card. At Dscaler, you can select SDI Silk 100 for PDI card input and Winfast for VC100 input.

[DFA]

CKL:

Was not doing anything with audio other than downmixed conventional stereo output. I was focused on the video: no decoding, no reason to worry about DD 5.1! Video first!

To make the ATI card work, I tapped the Ziva digital output port that goes to the onboard Bt865 video encoder chip used for SVideo output. This was easy since the pins on this chip are widely spaced. Just hooked wires and landed them up on the lower header and removed the 33 ohm gang resistors that connected the header to the original port that I was not able to get to work (not Bt656 apparently).

The next bridge is how to get decoded DD 5.1 at the 5 analog outputs of my Asus board and try to keep my HTPC as pre-pro.

DFA

P.S.: I left you a post on the bottom of page 7 of this thread which you may havd missed which informed of initial working status of C-Cube Ziva. After setting up Dscaler and some tuning, looks very good now but still have not had a chance to put it to my DLP. That will be the test.

[Atman]

Hi dbenn,
If you are using Winfast's application software, I recommend you to use Winfast's driver. If you use Dscaler only, it does not matter which driver you are using. Actually you even don't need to install driver in many machines. However, using 2 different BT878 drivers will create conflicts.
Regards,

[Atman]

Hi Archos,
This is a good article on video-based / film-based material.
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_4/dvd-benchmark-part-5-progressive-10-2000.html
It is much more difficult and complicated to deinterlace video-based material than film-based material. DScaler does a very good job to deinterlace both film-based and video-based material.
Regards,

[DFA]

Hey guys, tell me what to do.

At the risk of being redundant, I'm going to throw this out again.

This question is general and should apply to the Xcard as well as my modded Cinemaster card (unless XPlayer has a software audio codec included; does it?)

I am using an Asus A7N8X Deluxe and using the onboard audio. I also use / want my HTPC as the pre-pro (utilize the 6 analog outputs). This is out of stubbornness that the HTPC should replace everything as far as I can take it (my concept of what an HTPC should ultimately be and do).

If I were using and wanted an external pre-pro, things would work out good. The Asus will ENCODE any of the physical analog inputs and decoded software sources (including decoded DD from any software player audio codec) and pass it to the SPDIF output. The SPDIF input can also be selected to pass thru to the SPDIF output. The NForce can also put DECODED DD 5.1 from a SW player to the 6 analog outputs.

But the the Asus / NForce2 does not provide for decoding the SPDIF input to send to the 6 analog outputs, apparently only the pass thru choice (correct me if I'm wrong here because that is pivotal since I can take SPDIF output from the decoder card to SPDIF input on Asus w/ no problem).

So what to do? I have any number of audio codecs available but no way to control them independent of their native player or ZP. Or is there???? To bad Dscaler can't call an audio codec like ZP and associate that codec call with a particular card and video input (like SDI).

During my research and reading, I am aware that one of the Cinemaster players ("Cinemaster 99" I think) which is fundamentally a software player but can also be used to operate the Cinemaster (ATI) HW decoder card (I am currently using the dedicated HW Cinemaster player). Perhaps I can get it to do both: operate the decoder card AND run its audio codec so that I can get my decoded 6 analog outputs.

Anyone got any ideas of what to do here? Basically, it seems to me that I need to find a straightforward way to get an audio codec to run along with the decoder card. I don't know how, though. Maybe even a batch file that will run someones audio codec (not picky at this point). But there could be serious sync issues this route. In fact, maybe none of the audio codecs will run independent of their video codec brother (I can imagine interdependency possibilities with timing links).

Anyone got any ideas or methods? Anything at all.....

Thanks,

DFA

EDIT: The concept of my HTPC replacing everything goes so far as my HTPC has a 5.25" bay audio cassette player so that I could get rid of our old audio cassette deck but still be able to play our legacy library of cassettes. Bet no one else on this forum has one of these. Maybe the better question is who still has any analog audio cassettes! If anyone made a VCR transport that would fit in a 5.25 bay, I'd jam that into my HTPC too.

[CKL]

Xcard has S/PDIF IN. You can connect on-mother-board S/PDIF out to Xcard. All the sound including all PC applications, software DVDP, Xcard hardware DVDP will pass through Xcard's coaxial digital out to AV amp. I don't think it is a good idea to output 6 analogue channels from HTPC.

[DFA]

CKL:

Thanks but that is not consistent with my HTPC perception and was no problem (I used and still use the analog outs to 5 channel amp + powered sub; I have no pre-pro) until going the HW decoder route. Love the picture but need to handle the sound the way I WANT to; not because there seems to be no other option. I don't dispute that better sound control and quality might / can be obtained with external pre-pro (at this time).

ATI card has SPDIF out and no problem to put to Asus SPDIF input but nForce offers no way to decode (yet) and put to the built-in 6 analog outputs.

But for owners of Audigy2 sound cards (and apparently also Audigy1 and SBLive), I just found this: http://www.shspvr.com/reviews/xcard/dd51.html
Note that this is directed specifically to the Xcard and would work for me as well if I had an Audigy2 card!

They can now do EXACTLY what it is that I am trying to do! Kudos to SB Audigy (or someone) on this one. Are you listening nVidia???

DFA

Note: It looks like getting this feature (SPDIF input decoding) active on the Audigy is a bit convulted at this point but doable. The Compaq SP files that need to be downloaded are big: 158 MB and 386 MB. Also his link to the 386 MB file is written wrong and needs to be manually edited and entered to get to the FTP location.

[pdermody]

DFA,

If your saying your board has the DD input, but no decoder you could try to setup a graph using just the WinDVD audio decoders as they work with external sources (assuming you have WinDVD).

-pd

[DFA]

pdermody:

Yes, I can take the DD SPDIF in. I have everyones codecs (including late WinDVD). But I am stupid about graphs (very lame on these). Can I build and use a graph outside of ZP? Can you point me to a reference where I can teach myself.

Thanks,
DFA

[pdermody]

DFA,

Here is a thread about the WinDVD audio stuff:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=217464

at the bottom of the thread there is a link to a Graphedit tutorial (here it is again though, albeit its geared for creating DVD graphs - there is a screen cap at the top of the above linked thread though on how to just use the audio stuff)

http://www.inmatrix.com/articles/dvdgraph.shtml

I dont know offhand how you could use it without ZP or Graphedit. I would say create the graph via graphedit, export it out to a ZP compatible graph and then just open the graph (ZP allows for opening any graph, not just DVD graphs) in a minimized window.

-pd

[DFA]

pdermody:

Great. I am very grateful for this info. Not as straight forward as I might have hoped but does at least offer a means until something else comes along. I will let you know how it goes.

But if anyone else has any suggestions or ideas, don't be mum!!! Sock it to me.

Thanks

DFA

EDIT: Yes, a "bbq@KL" (Kero) post. Kero is a very resourceful and knowledgable guy. He has not been around much since returning to school (check how his posts have fallen off to zip). I miss his contibutions which were invaluble to the more challenged such as me.

[pdermody]

Wish I could help out more, but I dont have any means of testing or playing with since I do not have a spdif input on my card or board.

The route I was looking at myself was using ZP with the Xcard, its possible, video of course still goes out the card, but the filters did allow me to send it to my Sonic filters and then out via my soundcard. There are two problems with this route, one the navigation is kinda flakey - ie works and then doesnt work due to buggy dshow filters, two you lose the osd stuff from the xcard (if thats important to you)

There is another Xcard player, called Jove Player - there has been talk about it supporting external audio filters but it currently does not. I believe once it does this will be the route to go.

-pd

[DFA]

Gotcha. Like I said in an earlier above post, there is a Cinemaster player that is software codec based but supports the Cinemaster HW card. Possible that I could get it to run its native audio codec AND use it for HW deocder control. I don't have access to this player (Cinemaster 99 or even the Elsa version, I think) so can't perform that experiment but it is along the same thinking as the Jove player you mention. Also, seems that Dscaler being able to run a graph would be cool and give some flexability that some us are looking for.

DFA

[CKL]

I find that the Xcard digital out is much better than software decoder plus sound card.

[kazushi]

Originally posted by CKL
I find that the Xcard digital out is much better than software decoder plus sound card.
IMHO, it's nothing better than AP2496 digital out level. Digi 96/8 plays 48kHz PCM in music DVDs definitely better. However, for the case of DD/DTS, Digi 96/8 plays little bit better, so that I'm happy to watch movies with Xcard.

[Martin Rendall]

Does anybody use this combo to play your recorded mpeg files on the hard drive? The XMP player offers such ability, and the quality seems to be pretty good. Stability leaves a bit to be desired, though. If not, what's your preferred solution?

Thanks,
Martin.

[kazushi]

For the case of MPEG, I am using WMP as a front end. It automatically uses Xcard's filter and show everything through PDI. Only one problem I have is about the volume. If I use Xcard's filter, I must set the volume at the center instead of max to get original the best sound quality.

However, for the case of MPEG4 V3, I must use XMP but XMP is not a great front end.

[CKL]

You can convert the files to a image file and mount it to be a virtual DVD ROM. XMP can play it as an DVD disc.

[Archos]

Kazushi,

What is a AP2496 digital out level?

How is the digital out compared to a M-audio Revolution?

[kazushi]

Originally posted by Archos
What is a AP2496 digital out level?
Hi Archos,

I'm not using AP2496 when I am using PDI/Xcard combo. Although I was using WMP, video/audio stream were decoded by Xcard filter. This filter outputs everything through Xcard. So, there is no way to use AP2496 for digital output.

The problem I mentioned above is the quality of digital attenuation of Xcard. There is a generic digital attenuation thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=292655) if you want to know more about this topic. Anyway, Xcard digital out has a volume and I need to centerize it to avoid the audible artifacts. It's just annoying me because all of other filters require me to maximize volume to avoid artifacts. ;)

[rdunnill]

If I use an XCard with an H3D-I, does that eliminate the need for a PDI card? Also, where could I obtain the necessary ribbon cable from?

Thanks, RD

[pdermody]

rdunnill,

yes, using the Xcard with the H3D family of cards eliminates the need for the Atman PDI card. As for the cable, I believe both Digital Connection and Atman's side carries the H3D->Xcard cable. The pinouts also exist in one of the threads.

-pd

[stylinlp]

Is this a viable solution for an owner of:

DirectTV HDTV STB

Pent2.8ghz
1gig ram
Radeon9600pro
Revolution7.1
Hauppauge250 tv card
MyHD120 HDTV card
HOLO3D 1 card

SageTV
Main Lobby
Theater Tek

[orbitzboy]

Anyone else using the joveplayer instead of xmp? One of it's more interesting abilities is to play software decoded files through the xcard.

[kazushi]

Ahh, thank you for the joveplayer information. I didn't know it. I've installed it and like it. It works fine. I was looking for a player like this that can output everything through Xcard and its audio port.

I was thinking zoomplayer can do this too, but I didn't know how to tweak it. I even didn't know how to play DVD from ZP standard. ;) I tried it before joveplayer, but I couldn't figure it out.

So, I just installed joveplayer after that. It works great. :D

dScaler can improve the picture quality of MPEG4/DivX. The amount of improvements is depend on the quality of source materials. If source materials contains noise/artifacts, dScaler can help just little bit.

About deinterlacing, I'm not sure about this part. I can see dScaler deinterlaces well from some interlaced MPEG4/DivX materials. However, I am not sure whether interlaced materials under MPEG4/DivX are good or not. If those MPEG4/DivX encoding methods don't support native interlaced mode, interlaced materials encoded by MPEG4/DivX without deinterlacing already degraded its quality a lot...

[jimwhite]

Does anyone know how to turn off the SPDIF output of the X-Card programatically? I'm using the Audio Authority SPDIF switch which automatically switches to the active output on a priority basis. I already have a MAudio Delta which never turns off its SPDIF output at the lowest priority. Now, the X-Card activates its output the first time it's accessed by the player, but does not turn it off when the player closes.

:confused:

[OTS]

Hi!

Would someone be kind enough to instruct me on how to enable the 'AUTOMATIC PAL/NTSC SELECTION' in DScaler 4.1.7? Thank you!

[orbitzboy]

jimwhite,

Do you use girder? You can use the sendmessage plugin to control XMD, and it will allow you to change the sound parameters in the app via a girder command.

[jimwhite]

Originally posted by orbitzboy
jimwhite,

Do you use girder? You can use the sendmessage plugin to control XMD, and it will allow you to change the sound parameters in the app via a girder command.

My dilema is that the XCard player app is already terminated, yet the SPDIF outout is left active.... I tried Joveplayer, but can't seem to make it work... i was hoping it might properly close the card on exit... :(

:cool:

[CoZZm0]

Originally posted by
Does anyone know how to turn off the SPDIF output of the X-Card programatically? I'm using the Audio Authority SPDIF switch which automatically switches to the active output on a priority basis. I already have a MAudio Delta which never turns off its SPDIF output at the lowest priority. Now, the X-Card activates its output the first time it's accessed by the player, but does not turn it off when the player closes.

Edit this Registry entry to disable SPDIF once any program that is using hte xcard closes:

HKLM\Software\Sigma Designs\REALMagic\20\General

Edit the "SPDIFENABLEATCLOSE" entry from 1 to 0 and you will find that it will now be disabled on exit.

Hope this helps.

[jimwhite]

Originally posted by CoZZm0
Edit this Registry entry to disable SPDIF once any program that is using hte xcard closes:

HKLM\Software\Sigma Designs\REALMagic\20\General

Edit the "SPDIFENABLEATCLOSE" entry from 1 to 0 and you will find that it will now be disabled on exit.

Hope this helps.

THANKS!!!! Wonderful !! I haven't tried it yet but will tonight... Q: How did you find this?

Next question! : Yesterday, my X-Card suddenly seemed to lose it's ability to scale non-CSSS dvd rips to 1080i.... it seems stuck at 480p.... I'm using component out temporarily, and it worked a few days ago!! ?????

:confused:

[dbenn]

Originally posted by CKL
Xcard has S/PDIF IN. You can connect on-mother-board S/PDIF out to Xcard. All the sound including all PC applications, software DVDP, Xcard hardware DVDP will pass through Xcard's coaxial digital out to AV amp. I don't think it is a good idea to output 6 analogue channels from HTPC.

Does anyone have more info on this? I made several attempts at this using coax spdif cable to the spdif in
on the xcard. Both outputs work directly to my receiver but could not get xcard to pass thru signal.
One pin appears to be marked D and the other G (ground and digital?) tried both ways still no pass-thru.

[Martin Rendall]

Hi,

This question is a bit off topic, yet is somewhat related. Is anybody controlling the XMedia player (2.0) through Girder? What's involved? Is there an export group I haven't stumbled across yet?

Another question: does anybody use software other than the xmedia player for DVDs? Given that the codecs work great with SageTV, it got me wondering if one needs the xmedia player at all!

Thanks!
Martin.

[CoZZm0]

Originally posted by jimwhite
THANKS!!!! Wonderful !! I haven't tried it yet but will tonight... Q: How did you find this?

Next question! : Yesterday, my X-Card suddenly seemed to lose it's ability to scale non-CSSS dvd rips to 1080i.... it seems stuck at 480p.... I'm using component out temporarily, and it worked a few days ago!! ?????

:confused:


I found that on the Sigma Designs Support Forum for the XCard. :)

It should work as it works fine for me, but my trial of Joveplayer has expired so i was unable to test it with Joveplayer.

As for your other problem, i can't help you with that as i'm not using component output.

[malefactor]

My pdi deluxe is working somewhat.

1) The xcard PDI jumping doesn't work, at all. Note: Xcard is functioning--I checked the svideo output on the card. (Is there a setting required to redirect image to PDI?) So is the pdi deluxe; I can use the svideo inputs. Infact I can go xcard svideo -> pdi svideo in and it works. Yet, when I select "PDI" in dscaler, all I get is a solid green screen, or sometimes a greenish screen with garbagey lines all throughout, that move when I play the DVD.

Is this a faulty Xcard?

2) Dscaler puts the video about 2/10 of a second behind the audio. Enough to be very annoying. How do you guys work around this?

3) Dscaler has blips, frequently. I'm using a new tyan motherboard + Athalon XP 2100, and no matter what I set dscaler at (via 'general hardware') and no matter what pulldown method, the dropped frame count goes (per second) 0, 0, 2, 0, 0, 4, 0, 0, 2, 0... creatting a virtual stuttering effect.

Thanks in advance for assistance. Very close to a killer system..

[MorpheusSzeto]

malefactor,

Did you try alter the display settings of Xplayer?

Morpheus

[Atman]

Hi malefactor,

Could you please check the PDI connection again? It should be connected as shown in the following picture. The red wire is pin 1.

http://www.pmsvideo.com/member/9601/eshop/deluxe_combo.JPG

Secondly, please uninstall the Xcard driver and reinstall it again. Please use the latest Xcard driver on the PMS CDROM or from Sigma Designs' web site.

What is the chipset used on your mainboard?

Regards,

[Atman]

Regarding the stuttering problem, here is the checklist:
http://www.pmsvideoforum.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17

Regards,

[malefactor]

Originally posted by MorpheusSzeto
malefactor,

Did you try alter the display settings of Xplayer?

Morpheus

Yes, but to no avail.

Something I forgot to write about the stuttering problem: It happens even when there's no video signal, which seems to me to be a clear indication of a system issue (driver hogging time, slow bus, etc) rather than dscaler / its setup.

[jimwhite]

:( I'm getting the same green screen problem! I've uninstalled and reinstalled everything!! Cable is hooked up correctly..... :( chipset is i875... HyperThreading disabled....

:confused:

[cerulean]

Originally posted by jimwhite
:( I'm getting the same green screen problem! I've uninstalled and reinstalled everything!! Cable is hooked up correctly..... :( chipset is i875... HyperThreading disabled....

:confused:

I got the same green screen with my modified 878 card inputting PDI from my Xcard. I found that I had to go into the Xcard setup and select NTSC rather than auto detection. (I can't be more specific, because I don't have the PDI stuff in the computer anymore because I couldn't get the combination to work while I have a FusionHDTV card installed.)

Bob

[Atman]

Hi malefactor and Jim,

I know what happened. Please set the Output in Video Setup of Xmedia Player to anything other than VGA. Otherwise, there will be no digital video output at PDI.

Regards,

[orbitzboy]

I too had the green screen problem just the other day.

Had to go into XMP and switch to component from VGA on it's output settings. I have no idea why this would matter for PDI out (or how it got changed), but it did.

[RTK]

My PDI deluxe card arrived yesterday and I had a few hours to play with it today. The box included the PDI deluxe card, software CD with Xcard drivers/application, Dscaler ver 4.17p, installation documentation and a cable for connection to Xcard. Install instructions were straightforward and in Adobe Acrobat format with pictures.

The PDI input for DVD playback performed as expected with outstanding picture quality as good or better than anything I've seen.

The S-video input is clean however in my system suffers from faint intermitent horizontal strobing bands. I'm going to guess that this is a Dscaler issue however I am not certain. Unfortunately Dscaler 4.18 does not have support for the Deluxe card so I could not test this theory. I'm confident that this is not an issue with my system as the same S-video source produces a clean image with a Flyvideo2000/ Dscaler 4.17p

The 480i component input does not work properly. When connected to a 480i source it produces a double image split screen with occassional green bands. This may also be a Dscaler issue however I have no idea.

So at this point in time I consider 1 out of 3 inputs working properly. YMMV. If others do not have the same issues I suppose the card could be bad as I would have thought the issues with the analog inputs would have been seen during beta testing. Should I have waited for rev 1.3? ;)

[Atman]

Hi Rick,

I'll investigate the problem and get back to you soon.

Regards,

[faithfoo]

Looks like if I am inputting via S video input ; the flyvideo 2000 & d scaler 4.7 works best to give the most optimal image

[Bubun]

Originally posted by RTK


The PDI input for DVD playback performed as expected with outstanding picture quality as good or better than anything I've seen.



Just to clear your statement,
How about the PQ from PDI compare to TheaterTek/Sonic + ffdshow?
Personally, I'm very interested to buy this PDI combo for improving the PQ in my setup, but I want to make sure I get the PQ improvement over my existing setup before I spend more money.
FYI my setup currently : TT + ffdshow (resize method), 9700 MP-1, SONY G70.

[malefactor]

Originally posted by Atman
Hi malefactor and Jim,

I know what happened. Please set the Output in Video Setup of Xmedia Player to anything other than VGA. Otherwise, there will be no digital video output at PDI.

Regards,

Argh, tried that, and it still doesn't work for me (no change.. green screen). So far all the suggestions I've seen here have not solved any of the issues for me. Going to keep trying. FYI I'm using a tyan trinity 400 + amd 2100 chip (via kt400 chipset). Surely this has enough horsepower for dscaler; I ran dscaler smoothly before on much less.

I suspect the xcard, in my case, is broken. Give me a week or so to RMA it and I'll report back.

If it becomes absolutely necessary I can go to an intel platform to see if the stuttering in dscaler goes away, but quite frankly i've been trying to avoid it because the equivalent platform costs 2-4x.

I'll reply in more detail with what I've tried. I still have some drastic measures to try--swapping the modded ATI card for a diff. vid card, etc.

[malefactor]

Every time dscaler starts, I get a (harmless?) green-superimposed-message that goes away if I switch video inputs (to something else, then back):

--

ERROR: Can't use DirectShow support because the 'DScaler renderer filter' is not properly installed. The DirectShow input sources will be disabled. File C:\DScaler417src\DScaler\dshowsource\DSProvider.cpp Line 91

--

[Atman]

Originally posted by malefactor
Every time dscaler starts, I get a (harmless?) green-superimposed-message that goes away if I switch video inputs (to something else, then back):

--

ERROR: Can't use DirectShow support because the 'DScaler renderer filter' is not properly installed. The DirectShow input sources will be disabled. File C:\DScaler417src\DScaler\dshowsource\DSProvider.cpp Line 91

--

It is a bug. We shall fix it soon. We installed this 4.1.7p over old versions so we did not find this bug. Sorry about that.

Regards,

[malefactor]

Quick note: I also see banding in svideo; I didn't notice it before because I hadn't yet turned the lights off in the theater room.

Removing my Delta DIO 24/96 fixed 50% of the problem in dscaler. Turning off auto film / video detection fixed the other 50%. I'll see if I can rearrange the cards to get all working, but I have lingering concerns that something else is going on in my system--the fact that the option for auto film detection defaults to "ON" tells me that obviously they expect that option to be usable by default.

UPDATE --- moving the pdi & xcard closer to the agp slot, and moving the m-audio delta dio 24/96 card farther away did indeed fix the stutter. I'm still honestly concerned, though, that I'm still not getting 100% out of dscaler, because auto video/film detection induces stutter.

[RTK]

Bubun: Lets keep this as a PDI supprt thread and not another hardware vs. software DVD playback thread. Please start a new thread if you wish to discuss the pros vs. cons of each.

After switching to a different source, the 480i icomponent input on the PDI deluxe card does work fine. It appears the the 480i switch setting on the original device tested is a placebo and the double immage described above is from supplying a 480p source, rather than 480i.

2 out of 3 working, now to see what can be done about the S-video input.

[Bubun]

Originally posted by RTK
Bubun: Lets keep this as a PDI supprt thread and not another hardware vs. software DVD playback thread. Please start a new thread if you wish to discuss the pros vs. cons of each.



OK :)
I just want your to know your personal opinion after try this combo.
I'll PM you about this, I hope you can help me to decide.
You've got a PM:D

[bedo]

I just want your to know your personal opinion after try this combo.

I will want to hear that as well. I'd like to get feedback on the performance of the Deluxe, if comparisons to other (ie software performance, original pdi card, etc.) will help get across what the poster is realizing then please post it here. If this is not the proper thread, please let us know here if you do start a new thread.

Thanks:)

[Atman]

We have just released a new version of DScaler4.1.7p.

More info:
http://www.pmsvideoforum.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=24

We have sent the source code to the DScaler team. Hopefully the code will be merged to the DScaler main tree soon.

We cannot duplicate the lipsync (2/10 of a second) / dropped-frames problem reported by malefactor. It may be related to the stuttering problem.

Regards,

[malefactor]

Originally posted by Atman
We have just released a new version of DScaler4.1.7p.


We cannot duplicate the lipsync (2/10 of a second) / dropped-frames problem reported by malefactor. It may be related to the stuttering problem.

Regards,

Sorry this was not clear. It has been "fixed". I still notice a VERY slight visual delay; I think it's simply due to the complexity of reading an image, altering it, then outputing it. I assume the proper fix is to add 'delay' in the prepro of my system, but mine doesn't have the option (marantz receiver).

I'm honestly a bit concerned that something is up with my system, because it seems like I just barely have enough horsepower to make it work smoothly (turning autodetect off). Additional suggestions / diag tools would be appreciated; I tried literally everything suggested on multiple threads. The only thing I could think is going on I infer from the bootup screen where the bios dumps out all the PCI devices and the IRQs they occupy; there are a whole lot of things on IRQ 10. Maybe shifting them around would make a difference.

I misspoke earlier: my HTPC exhibiting "problems" is an ABIT KD7-G (via kt400 chipset), athalon xp2100+, ATI All-in-wonder 7500 + MP 5-bnc-mod, Maudio delta dio 24/96, PDI deluxe. I was getting a steady 2-4df/sec, until I moved the maudio to the last pci slot (fixed 1/2 of the stutter) and turned off autodetect-film-video (fixed the other 1/2).

Is there some sort of metric available (perhaps hidden) to ascertain dscaler performance? Like, a benchmark? I think this would be incredibly valuable to a lot of people. DF/Sec is useful in detecting insufficient performance, but it doesn't tell me the total capacity of the system--only when total cap ain't enough.

[malefactor]

Originally posted by Atman
We have just released a new version of DScaler4.1.7p.
Regards,

Have you been able to reproduce the slight banding issue on svideo inputs? (or is it fixable by software & this version fixes it.. release notes didn't indicate if so)

thx-

[jimwhite]

the file needs to be renamed to an .exe file !!!

:cool:

[Martin Rendall]

We cannot duplicate the lipsync (2/10 of a second)

I've seen this as well, with the original PDI card. The problem seems to be source specific (in my case, Babylon 5, Season 3), and can be cleared up by pressing pause for a a second or two.

At the time, I investigated the XCard forum, and it did appear like it's a bug with the XCard. One that the SigmaDesigns people didn't really want to address directly.

One way to test is to temporarily use the output directly from the xcard. See if there delay is still there. I haven't tried this myself, however.

Martin.

[Martin Rendall]

BTW: I've been wondering. Regarding the capture card settings: what should be selected? CCIR1, CCIR2, CCIR3, or CCIR4? What does this mean?!?

Martin.

[Atman]

Hi malefactor,

We can't reproduce the S-video problem here. We are still investigating it. Will keep you posted.

Regards,

[Atman]

Hi Martin,

If you select "RS BT" as the PDI capture card, CCIR1 to CCIR4 are the same. However, the video settings etc are independent for CCIR1 to CCIR4. So you can consider them as 4 independent profiles for the same physical input.

Regards,

[Martin Rendall]

Atman,

Thanks. That's awesome! That's so useful, you should put it in huge red blinking gothic text in the pdi xcard manual! :)

Martin.

[JohnAd]

I think the banding may be caused by double application of brightness/contrast and especially doing this within the bt878 chip. I've taken Atman's source and not merged it in directly to the main tree, instead I've sort of copied the holo3d code and merged it in like that. I've seen no evidence of banding with my code. For those in PAL land RGBS from a SCART cable does work, to plug the sync into the top svideo socket use a standard composite over s-video cable.

Cheers

John

[rdunnill]

I received my XCard with H3D-I ribbon cable, but was unable to get it to work properly.

I was able to briefly get an image from the XCard into the Holo3D application, but when I closed the latter and restarted it, the machine rebooted. I was never able to get it to work properly under dScaler; not only that, it also blocked the other inputs from working, including the composites, and attempts to use them with laserdisc input only displayed corrupted copies of the DVD image from the XCard.

I also have problems using the newer H3D drivers; if those are installed, only the Holo3D viewer can be used, and laserdisc composite input results in a "jittery" image, while dScaler can't be used at all.

I finally gave up and took the XCard out. Maybe if less-buggy drivers are released, I'll give it another try, but for now, I'll have to restrict my H3D-I to laserdisc, and leave DVD playback to the excellent TheaterTek.

FYI my H3D-I is a Rev. 4 refurb, running under XP Home, on an A7N266 with 256mb of PC2100. The H3D-I, XCard, and cable were all purchased from Digital Connection.

Could the fact that my H3D-I is a Rev. 4 refurb be part of the problem?

Thanks, RD

[DHunt]

Hopefully someone can clear a few things up for me regarding the PDI Deluxe Card and XCard Combo. I was originally going to get the PDI card and XCard combo, but then I read about the PDI Deluxe card and its inputs. Now I am a bit confused as to what it can do.

I am in the middle of building my own HTPC that I want to use to replace my VCR and DVD player in my theater room. I plan on using the HTPC for DVD play back, Satellite recording and playback, as well as some game playing. I want a high quality picture with Dolby Digital/DTS surround sound. The HTPC will be attached to my existing Amplifier and Pre-Amp. I will not be driving the speakers from the HTPC. I will be using Girder for controlling everything.

My Questions:

1. Can the PDI Deluxe card capture video from my Satellite system? Reading the DScaler webpage, it looks like DScaler has some capability to capture AVI's, but isn't specialized to do this. Reading way back in other posts, the Flyvideo 2000 was mentioned multiple times as being one of the cheapest, yet better capture cards to capture video. Can the PDI Deluxe card capture my video feed from the satellite as well as the Flyvideo, or is it hindered in its abilities by DScalers mediocre capture abilities. Do any other programs exist that will use the PDI Deluxe for video capture, besides DScaler?

2. I am unclear regarding the XCards sound abilities. I am wanting to connect my HTPC to my existing Surround system, so I need a digital output for playback of my DVD's. I am also wanting to record satellite shows which might be in dolly digital, so I would like to be able to record that as well (ie. Digital Input). What is the XCards capabilities? Am I better off with a Revolution sound card instead? How does this fit in with playing games that have surround capabilities? What is the best setup for watching Dolby Digital Movies, as well as some game playing? What issues will there be regarding audio being sync'd up with the video?

Thank you for any insight into what the PDI Deluxe Card/XCard Combo can and can't do.

Darren

[cetoole]

Atman from PMS Video said in a thread over there that the BTWinCap generic driver could be modified to allow the PDI Deluxe card to be used as a capture card with a WDM driver. He also stated that PMS Video wouldn't be making the modification needed, but someone could do it if interested.

[jimwhite]

the question of the day is, will Atman supply the neccessary info on switching inputs that will be required.... ??

:cool:

[jimwhite]

BTW, sure wish the X-Card player app would ignore the mangled layer flag from DVDShrink backups..... because it looks at this flag, which most players ignore, it starts playing at the layer break point, and you cannot navigate back from there!!! Phooey....

:(

[pdermody]

Originally posted by jimwhite
the question of the day is, will Atman supply the neccessary info on switching inputs that will be required.... ??

:cool:

I would imagine that its in the Dscaler source code tree. Or at least Atman's patch file to the tree if has not made its way in to the official tree.

-pd

[Atman]

Originally posted by pdermody
I would imagine that its in the Dscaler source code tree. Or at least Atman's patch file to the tree if has not made its way in to the official tree.

-pd

Correct. The codes we added are open source and is being merged into the official tree.

Regards,

[malefactor]

Originally posted by JohnAd
I think the banding may be caused by double application of brightness/contrast and especially doing this within the bt878 chip. I've taken Atman's source and not merged it in directly to the main tree, instead I've sort of copied the holo3d code and merged it in like that. I've seen no evidence of banding with my code. For those in PAL land RGBS from a SCART cable does work, to plug the sync into the top svideo socket use a standard composite over s-video cable.

Cheers

John

So, is this how it's been merged into the official dscaler tree, or is this just a personal version you created?

If it's merged into the tree, is it in CVS yet? I'd really like to see if the banding is software-fixable or indicative of a hw design issue. (well heck, I'd like to fix it too! hehe)

[rdunnill]

JohnAd: Can you suggest why dScaler won't work with my H3D-I if the newest drivers are installed?

Thanks, RD

[VincentO]

I opened my PDI deluxe card that just got earlier this week and as I was openning it, C23 fell out of the bag. can somone help me out.

This seems to be poor quality control.

Thanks,
Vincent

[Atman]

Hi Vincent,

Sorry about that. My colleague will contact you soon for replacement.

Regards,

[VincentO]

Thank you for your quick response and help.

Vincent.:)

[Martin Rendall]

Are you handy with a soldering iron?

Martin.

[VincentO]

Yes I am, but i don't know if there;s anything else wrong with this card and i'm reluctant to do something that may void the warrantee. i haven't install the card, it's new out of the box.

anyway, got an email from nelson of pms video. they are sending a replacement on monday.

Thanks,
Vincent

[VincentO]

I've just got a pdi deluxe replacement.

I follow all the instruction given by Li On, but i'm not getting any picture in dscaler.

I was trying to play a dvd on the pc using xmedia player v1.2, dscaler is v4.17p? it's the version that came in the cd from pms video.

p4 2.6g
1g ram
radeon 9500 np 128mb
window xp pro


Any help is greatly appreciated.
Vincent.

[Atman]

Hi Vincent,

The hardware/software design of the PDI Deluxe card is different from the original PDI capture card so please follow the instructions on the user's manual instead of Li On's instructions, which are for the original PDI capture card only.

User's manual: http://www.pmsvideo.com/index_topic.php?did=28&didpath=/28

If you have changed the default setting of XMP's video output, please read this:
http://www.pmsvideoforum.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29

Regards,

[malefactor]

By the way, I got my xcard replaced and everything works now. Thanks.

[VincentO]

Thanks, that was it. I change the dscaler to point to pms video card instead of silk 100.

Vincent.

[bedo]

VincentO, malefactor, and all you other lucky bast**ds with the pdi deluxe:

Post some screenshots!! Let us see!!!
Can you do good close screenshots with pdi deluxe and without comparisons? I am about a month away from getting mines and i am dying for anything to keep me inspired.

Throw us a bone, people! :)

[malefactor]

I'm not a good example yet. The card is very nice because it provides multiple inputs + the PDI (obviously); at the moment I'm more into it because of the functionality rather than the quality.

You see, I have a sony 1270 projector. Ughh. But, it does get the job done.

What I will say is that I've tried to mess with reclock and software dvd players, and I am definitely not sure that I ever set it up properly, but I never got rid of (what do you call it?) "jumping", non-smooth-panning, etc. This did. Just seems smoother overall. That doesn't translate well into a picture. :-)

[bedo]

That's interesting and a good point. I appreciate the words, I'm really looking forward to one.

[mikeyari]

Atman, What happens if you run a 1080i compnent video signal into the component inputs of the pdi delux card? Will you get a scaled down 480i picture or will it just reject the signal and go blank screen?


Atan, Also, Can you just buy the component input card and use it with Dscaler alone?


Also, can anyone see if the pq through component inputs of the pdi delux
produces a better picture than s-video through the Flyvideo card?

[dstroot]

#1) - I backup my DVDs to disk - I have created a DVD server using MyHTPC and TheaterTek. I MUST be able to play ripped DVDs. Can the PMS PDI deluxe combo play ripped DVD's? Can the DVD player be started from MyHTPC?

#2) - FFDShow support? If FFDshow can process a stream after the software decoder, why can't it process the stream after a hardware decoder and fed in via PDI? I know many of the Dscaler and FFDshow functions are redundant but it would be nice to have all the options available.

Thanks in advance!

[pdermody]

1) the Xcard has no problems being started from external apps, and can play rips without any issues.

2) Dscaler does not have FFDShow support. If you absolutely must have that maybe look at the H3D line of cards as it now supports FFDShow.

-pd

[dstroot]

The only MUST was that it can be automated within MyHTPC and play rips.

Thanks for the FAST response!

FFDshow was just something I was hoping for as an added bonus.

I was researching the H3D cards and here is what I discovered - H3D only does deinterlacing - via very nice DCDi chip - however it doesn't do the scaling - it relies on the Video card (unless I read it wrong) - thus if Dscaler can deinterlace as well as DCDi or better, then its better than buying the H3D - also both can "mask" the chroma bug right? Even if Dscaler is close it is less expensive and software-based so it can improve.

FFDshow can "resize" or do scaling in a user controllable way so it has some added appeal.

I love the idea of a full digital path that can read the MPEG data, deinterlace it, apply "corrections" (de-noise, etc.), and then scale it to the native resolution of my digital display and then deliver that via digital connection like DVI. (Without buying a SDI DVD player - which can't play rips, and a kilobucks scaler like a Leeza or something)

I already have most of that with the Bravo D1, or my current HTPC with TheaterTek and FFDShow outputting via Radeon 9600. However my Bravo can't play rips and my HTPC is CPU-bound. Offloading the MPEG decoding and using Dscaler is VERY appealing.

[MaxC]

Can the local expert please respond to this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3031859#post3031859

I have the new PDI Xcard on order and someone asked what it adds to a DVI connection for DVDs. I think it works in combo with dscaler to produce a better image, but I am not sure if that is exactly what it does, so can someone please chime in. :D

[pdermody]

dstroot,

dscaler does not scale either, it leaves the scaling up to the video card, and actually the h3dii with the optional hd aux card can scale - completely bypassing the pci bus and gpu/video card (and this means it bypasses ffdshow for what its worth)

but indeed for what you want (xcard pdi solution) the atman pdi cards with dscaler will do wonders and save you quite a bit.

-pd

[Martin Rendall]

Greetings,

I want to start by saying that I have been extremely satisfied with the xcard/pdi (original card) combo.

Since I've moved over to the HTPC (and put the dvd player in the closet), I've been watching video source material, primarily. The combo is stunning for this, to say the least.

In the last few weeks, I've watched a few movies, also with the combo. The results are also very good (using the automatic pulldown in DScaler). A small "however", and the point of this post, is that occasionally I notice a slight stutter. Not severe - it's just like it jumps ahead a frame or two. Since I don't see this with the video content, I suspect it is something to do with my usage of DScaler. BTW: I'm upscaling all content to 1080i.

Does anybody have any insights or suggestions of a "perfect" dscaler configuration for film content? Does anybody use the Judder Terminator option for film content? Right now, I'm not. CPU usage is at about 10 or 15% when viewing film, so there's processing power to spare.

Perhaps people use another solution for film? I'd be very interested to hear about it. In my opinion, the video handling alone makes the combo well worthwhile.

Thanks!
Martin.

[dstroot]

I am noticing this as well - tried Seabiscuit last night after installing a fresh PDI Deluxe/Xcard combo. Just got it.

I think it might have to do with "auto" aspect ratio control, or "auto" pull down. Pressing the enter key brings up the OSD and I noticed the pulldown and Aspect ratios were changing frequently. After I tried to lock them down I think the jumpiness stopped but I am just starting to play around with this combo.

Have you fixed it already? If so how? (ps- I was using the judder terminator as well)

[Martin Rendall]

I haven't fixed it yet. To be honest, I haven't revisited the subject since my post. So JT doesn't seem to have any affect. That's fine, since it uses so much resource (and generates heat :) ). I will try fixing the pulldown and aspect ratio. Regarding pulldown: does it matter which frame is skipped?

Thanks,
Martin.

[gregoryx]

I read all of this thread and a bunch at the PMS site and a couple of the other large threads here... I think I'm overloaded... this seems like the appropriate thread for this post, though, since it seems to filled with knowledgeable folks willing to put in the extra effort to get optimal PQ and support for multiple formats.

I'm currently using .ISOs and running Zoom Player with ffdshow. I've been trying to find the best PQ method for getting into my Sanyo PLV-70 projector (LCD 1366x768 WXGA, but apparently only 1024x768 DVI - unless ya'll can tell me otherwise).

PLEASE forgive the stupid questions... maybe I'm just not "getting it":

Is the PDI Deluxe / X-Card combo going to give me the WXGA output that I'm looking for or is that still dependent on a different VGA card in the system?

Does the PDI Deluxe support 480p input (from my pre/pro or direct from DVD player, for instance)?

WRT playing ISO rips, is the PDI Deluxe / X-Card the best PQ method currently?

I still can't seem to get a clear understanding of this: with ffdshow / Zoom, am I getting progressive 480p (sized up to 1280x768, then to 1366x768)? I hate to sound so stupid, but it seems that I am from the ffdshow settings, but it really doesn't look like it on the screen.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

[dstroot]

1) The PDI card still uses the VGA card for output. The best way to think of the PDI card is an *input* card.

2) I don't know for sure but I don't think so.

3) ISO rips are no different than any DVD - best playback is endlessly debated. essentially you are pitting the xcard mepg decoding, descaler deinterlacing and filters, and your video card scaling against all other DVD playback types. Bottom line: it sure doesn't suck, but there are many other possibilities.

[DFA]

Welcome to the year of our Lord, 2004!

I have a Zoltrix Wonder Pro 878 based card I am using with XCard for PDI. I modded the Zoltrix by adding a header to the existing solder pad that already had the needed GPIO pins from the Conexant 878 in place (that's why I chose the Zoltrix). I also use the S-Video input on the Zoltrix for our old VCR.

I have created separate .INI files for Dscaler for the SDI Silk 100 (C-Video Jumper) configuration for PDI XCard usage and another one for the "standard" card configuration (Zoltrix TV Genie) for using the S-Video input. Different batch files are used for copying in the custom .INI files to Dscaler.INI, starting Dscaler and copying them back out at the close of Dscaler to capture any changes to the particular .INI file in use.

There is nothing new to this as I know others have multiple .INI files for Dscaler with batch files for .INI selection to control startup with different input settings, filter settings and even different cards.

My problem is this: from a fresh OS (W2K) reboot, if I open Dscaler for PDI / XCard (SDI Silk 100), everything works as expected. Following this, when I open Dscaler for the VCR (Zoltrix card configured normally) everythinfg also works fine. But after this, when trying to go back to using Dscaler with the card configured as SDI Silk 100, the video is corrupted. Usually a green or pinkish screen with two vertical lines. Video from the XCard can be seen but is bad. In other words, once I open Dscaler with the Zotrix configured normally, I can not go back to opening Dscaler with the Zoltrix card configured as an SDI Silk 100 device.

I have tried different things like resetting the card and trying different "standard" card choices but nothing helps. The only way I can get it to correctly open as an SDI device again is to reboot the HTPC. Both of the .INI files have been configured from scratch (delete / rename Dscaler.INI so that Dscaler opens prompting for new configuration) so that no "artifacts" from either .INI configuration exist in the other.

Anyone run into this? If so any known cure? I think it is a Dscaler software issue but could be peculiar to the Zoltrix card. Those using the modded Winfast VC-100 also have an S-Video input. Can anyone see or know if this problem is duplicated by this card?

Thanks for any help.

DFA

[Li On]

Hi DFA,

Did you install the 2 capture card's supplied driver suit? IMO you should NOT install any of the capture card driver. Let they be shown as ? in the device manager.

If that still don't work, try exchange the 2 cards PCI slot position.

There is a "Reset Card" or some sort in Dscaler menu, does it help?

regards,

Li On

[DFA]

Hi LiOn; Hope your holidays were great.

There is just the one Zoltrix capture card. The two .INI files are used to go from an "SDI Silk 100" configuration (for PDI XCard) to a "standard" configuration (for VCR) and vise versa. I can only go one way. Once Dscaler is opened up with the "standard" .INI file, I can not go back to using it in the "PDI" mode w/o a reboot.

The native drivers and software for the card are NOT and never have been installed.

The Dscaler "card reset" feature has no effect.

But something needs resetting it seems. Either a "bit" in the card or a "bit" in the Dscaler driver. I'm hoping that a line item in the .INI file might take care of it but am clueless about what that might be. I tried turning "bWaitForVerticalBlanking=1 (ON)" but was just a shot in the dark. It seems like some sort of sync problem since the screen corruption is not always the same or even the same color and changes with every reopening of Dscaler or "push" of the "card reset" button. I think I need John Adcock to have a look if I can get his attention.

EDIT: The little batch files look like this:

VCR.BAT =
@ECHO OFF
COPY VCR.INI DSCALER.INI
DSCALER.EXE
COPY DSCALER.INI VCR.INI

and DVD.BAT =
@ECHO OFF
COPY DVD.INI DSCALER.INI
DSCALER.EXE
COPY DSCALER.INI DVD.INI

DVD.INI configures for "SDI Silk 100" with SDI input. VCR.INI configures for a "normal" 878 capture card (i.e.; Zoltrix TV Genie, et. al.) with S-Video input active. Girder executes the DVD.BAT and "XMP" when "DVD" is selected with the remote and VCR.BAT is executed when "VCR" is selected with the remote. Dscaler is closed and reopened in each transition. But that's the automated side of things. Direct Dsacler editing of the configuration (DSCALER.INI) results in the same behavior.

Anyone with a modded Winfast VC-100 card or even the PMS PDI capture card (non-deluxe; even though there is no physical s-video input) can try this: Open Dscaler and change the card type from "SDI Silk 100" to the "Standard BT878" with the s-video input selected. Close Dscaler and reopen. With nothing connected to the input, a blue screen should appear. Now configure back to the "SDI Silk 100" with SDI input selected and close and reopen Dscaler again. Everything OK? Or are you seeing a green or pinkish or black screen with two vertical lines. Try playing a DVD. Assuming all is not well, reboot and all will be OK again.

The first thing I'm trying to figure out is if the trouble is "global" or just peculiar to the Zoltrix and/or my setup. When initially opening Dscaler and using in PDI / XCard mode, everything looks great so I have had no reason to suspect the PCI slot choice or basic setup.

One other aside: the Zoltrix card has a PAL tuner (I am in USA and the card was not quite as advertised when I purchased it off Ebay but for my purposes seemed irrelavent) but I do not ofcourse use it or need it. I wonder if it (the tuner) is causing a 50 Hz "bit" to be set somewhere when configuring for "normal" s-video capture (VCR) mode that needs to be forced back even though NTSC is selected and the s-video input works as it should for the "standard" configuration. I suspect it's a given that I am the only person in the known universe to be using a modded Zoltrix capture card with a PAL tuner, living in a 60 Hz domain and looking to switch back and forth between "normal" s-video capture (VCR) and "SDI Silk 100" (PDI) modes and have managed to discover some unknown pothole.

DFA

[DHunt]

I have asked this in the PVR section of the forum with no response, so I'll give it a shot here.

I am curious to know how the PDI card Xcard deluxe combo is used in peoples system. I know that it was built to be run with DScaler for DVD play back, which is cool, but has any one tried using the capture card side of things for other uses, such as a PVR system?

I am sitting on the edge of purchasing the deluxe combo for two main purposes:

1. Playback of DVD's
2. Use the Capture card with a PVR program such as BTV (SnapStream).

Reading through all of the posts regarding the PDI, I have come across multiple posts regarding using the BTWINCAP as a driver for the PDI card. Reading into the details for editing the BTWINCAP to better control the PDI card, it looks like a spy program is used to identify which pins on the BT878 chip are used for the video inputs/outputs. Looking at how the Deluxe PDI card is built, with its multiple input selections (ie. composite, SVideo, Component), I imagine that this flexibility would cause some issues with building a better BTWINCAP driver, depending on what jumper settings a user has set for their PDI card.

Has no one even tried this before? What is everyone using the capture side for?

I would like to know if anyone has setup their PDI Deluxe card with BTWINCAP and have successfully implemented it within a PVR system, specifically using BTV. I live in Canada, and from what I have read, BTV seems to have one of the best TV guides for Canadians. If I can be assured that I can get BTV working with the PDI Deluxe card, it will make my purchasing decision substantially easier. After all, if I can get this to work, then I don't have to worry about another capture card in my system.

After getting BTV and the PDI card working together, I believe I will have to sew everything together using MyHTPC and girder for control. Sound about right?

Darren

[DFA]

Three words: Hardware MPEG encoding. That's why no one is using straight capture cards for PVR; SW encoding is required and is no match for HW encoding.

You might want to research Sage vs. SS closely before taking the PVR plunge. But Sage does only support HW encoders (primarily Hauppauge).

DFA

[DHunt]

Thanks for the response DFA. I imagine at some point that software encoding catches up to hardware encoding, depending on the processor speed.

Looking through SnapStreams Forum, I could not find much regarding software encoding cards. Like you mentioned, everyone seems to be favoring the hardware encoding cards. It would just be interesting to see how much strain BTV would place on my system using the PDI card. I have a P4 2.6 Ghz, 1 Gig of 3500 speed Dual Channel Ram.

Anyone with a PDI Deluxe combo have some spare time to try the trial version of BTV and send me their results? haha

Darren

[Li On]

Hi DFA,

Hmm, not much idea here. Are you using the same Zoltrix for both PDI mod and S-video? I never use the S-video on my modded VC100XP. Once I had a XCard, VC100 PDI for XCard, Flyvideo2000 for S-video, PMS SDI and a VC100 modded for external PDI. I can select each of the 4 cards in Dscaler fine. I guess switching the .ini should work too.

regards,

Li On

[DFA]

LiOn:

Yes, I am using a single Zoltrix card for PDI AND for normal S-Video capture. This requires configuring Dscaler back and forth with regard to card type selection. I can go from SDI Silk 100 to Standard 878 but not back again to SDI Silk 100 mode w/o a reboot. Strange. I have left John Adcock a PM and was hoping he would look at these posts and advise. But no word yet.

If you have a modded Winfast VC100, you can try it for yourself. I am be very curious to know if the issue is general or specific.

DFA