Sony 34XBR910 Service Menu Adjustments

[NTN1]

I am still breaking in my TV while waiting for the Digital VE calibration disc. I want to start a thread on the 910 calibration so people can get started.

Attached is the baseline of my 910's Service Menu with factory defaults. Note that the default values here apply to 1080i feed, using video 5 component in, 16x9 HD Full display, Standard brightness, Color 35-40%, Color Temp Neutral, ClearEdge VM Off, all other settings untouched. This spreadsheet is based on the XBR800 file posted by ragamuffin here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=169694&perpage=20&pagenumber=3)

Items in RED are new for the 910 (compares to the XBR800 menu). Sony has added 11 more dynamic convergence adjustments to a total of 25 parameters. There are 15 new adjustments under the new category called "LANDING". Also, CBOP & CROP (not sure what they are) were added to the 2170P-1 category.

I'll post many before/after pictures and update the file with my adjustment values after I calibrate my TV in the next few weeks. Please contribute with your comments and findings. Thanks.


Edited on 9/22/03: Attached is my calibration procedures and data.

[NTN1]

Attached is version 2 of the Service Menu baseline. I added the 480i/video1-in defaults. The default values will be different for 480p, and 480i/component-in. Since I only use this set to view 1080i materials, I am just too lazy to go through other modes at this time.

[montreal]

NTN1,

Thanks for publishing your copy of the XBR910 Service Data Lists.

I compared it to the lists for the XBR800.

The following are new items:

2170P-1 CBOP,CROP
D-CONV HVCA,SRSP,SRUM,SRUB,SRLM,SRLB,SLSP,SLUM,SLUB,SLLM,SLLB
LANDING LT,LB,RT,RB,EWSP,ENSW,TESW,DHMT,LDVM,LVSW,LVPH,HSZO,SLNO,MPNO,
PINO


The following was in the 800 but no longer in the 910:
2170D_4 DHMT


Most of the changes seem to relate to the convergence and focusing, not surprising since the biggest change between the XBR800 and the XBR910 is the tighter focus on the electron beams. All the other chips seem to be the same.

Would someone with a new XBR910 be so kind as to publish the chassis name. On the XBR800, the chassis name is DA4 and it is written on the back of the set just to the right of the date of manufacture.


Should any XBR910 experience the infamous scrolling bar and end up getting the same patch as the XBR800 (HDPT), could you ask the technician if the XBR910 has the same 'B' board as the the XBR800, that being the version A-1300-325-A or A-1300-327-A, which is etched onto the board in the lower left hand corner of the component side of the board, or printed on a paper sticker affixed to the board.

Thanks

[wco81]

Just a quick general question.

Does getting into the Service Menu, assuming they find out, void the XBR 2-year warranty?

I know people want the best out of their set but the 2-year warranty was one of this product's best assets.

[Alan Sh]

The chassis name is DA-4.

USE THIS INFORMATION AT YOUR OWN RISK.


Service Manual information

The service manual can be ordered from 1-800-488-7669. There is one manual for both the KV-30XRB910 and the KV-34XBR910. The cost is $63 plus shipping and state tax. Most of it is comprised of schematics and a parts list. It is missing a description of the P-1 and P-2 registers. I would think that most buyers would be disappointed.

A couple of items might be added to the spreadsheet.

categorynext=2
categoryprevious=5

This allows you to reach the desired registers more quickly.

The manual does contain several bits of information to help avoiding a disaster.
"Note: Be careful when using the remote! It will clear and re-initalize ALL NV/M data including deflection adjustment data if not reset properly as follows."
Since 7-jump-enter and 7-9-enter reset the NVM data, I would avoid 7.

To check if memory has been written, the manual suggests pulling the plug from the AC outlet and then reentering the service mode to see if the items were adjusted.

When you hit muting the upper right item on the screen will change to a green WRITE. If you hit enter within about two seconds, WRITE will change to red. This rewrites all items, not just the item you are currently adjusting.

If you think you may have changed something inadvertedly, power off. If you see something really strange, I would pull the plug from the AC outlet.
Precautions I took
1. In the above spread sheet I stored my 548 values for input 5 FULL mode. They turned out to be at least 90% the same as column D.
2. I changed the MID1 register 8 by 1. I then powered off and reentered the service menu. I saw that that the original value was intact. This gave me confidence that if I ever thought that I had made a mistake( and this has happened) I could simply power off.
3. If I have looked around a lot before I find what I want to change, I power off and reenter immediately before making the change.
4. The first few times after making a change, I exit and reenter to make sure the change was made.
5. One way I have gotten in trouble is by hitting the 2 or 5 instead of the 1 or 4. Then d not check carefully that I am at the correct register, I end up changing a register somewhere else entirely. On my RCA I once changed a register whose function or value I did not remember. The fact that I had written down all the values saved me.

Correcting Picture tilt
This can be done from the user menu. MENU|Setup| Tilt Correction

To enter service menu
1. Power off
2. Hit in sequence DISPLAY, 5, Volume +, Power. If done correctly 2 or 3 green lines of information will appear at the top of the screen. If not, try hitting the keys either more rapidly or more slowly.

Horizontal and vertical position and size
There are separate settings for Normal and Full.
MID1 8 MDHP horizontal position
MID1 9 MDVP vertical postion
MID1 10 MDHS horizontal size
MID1 11 MDVS vertical size

To set NORMAL I used the fact that the picture should be 22.2 inches wide and used the MID1 settings above. For NORMAL this creates the size and position of the 4:3 window but does not correct overscan within the window. To do this I put the DVE title 12 chapter 17 1.33 overscan pattern up and used the following registers:
MID3 0 VDHP horizontal position
MID3 1 VDHS horizontal size
MID3 3 VDVS vertical size

Reducing extra brightness on first line or two of 2.35 movies
MID5 register 3 is MVLY Changed 0 to a 1.

Adjusting black levels in the SM
As pointed out by NTN1 a global black adjustment can be made with 2170P-1 SRBT. User black adjustment for a specific signal(i.e.1080i) can be made with 2170P-3 UBOF.
I adjusted my DVD player black level in the user menu and did not make a global adjustment. I then increased UBOF from 1 to 6 on a 1080i signal.
This means that I no longer have to adjust brightness every time that I switch signals. So far that has worked for my Samsung T165, JVC 30K, and two Pioneer 5100HD cable modems. It is my guess that an increase of 1 in UBOF is equivalent to an increase of 2 in the user menu.

[NTN1]

My Digital VE disc was shipped on Monday, and should arrive any day now. I am getting ready for calibration.

In addition to whatever procedure recommended in the disc, I'll try to implement as much as possible what I learned from the following sources:

How to Calibrate a TV by Anthony Haukap (http://209.145.176.7/~090/awh/how2adj.html)

Sony Grand Wega XBR Tweaks KF-50XBR800/KF-60XBR800 by AVS member umr (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=2637742)

The 910 adjustment values will be different, but the above sources will be a great start to understand TV calibration better. Since I don't have a color analyzer, I am going to have to eyeball the color temperature using the methods recommended by Mr. Haukap in Paragraphs 3.6b, 3.6c, 3.6d.

I'll return to this thread in a couple of weeks to post my findings, along with my 910's calibration values.

[Kid A]

NTN and others:

Would you recommend this newbie to wait for DVE to arrive before adjusting values in the Service Menu? And SHOULD I follow similar configurations on the 910 despite the majority of my viewing being analog? Much appreciation. Thanks.

Kid

[wco81]

Is the DVE only useful if you intend to go into the Service Menu?

Or does it help just using the consumer menu adjustments?

[NTN1]

KidA,

You and I are all newbies. Just like you, I am here to learn, and share what I know. The calibration disc will give you the necessary test patterns to reveal the shortcoming of your display. My thoughts:

1/ Don't touch the Service Menu unless you know exactly what you are changing. If you have to change it, make minimum effective changes. If you don't see any noticeable improvement, go back the the original value. Of course, before doing anything, establish your own baseline such as the file I posted at the beginning of this thread. It's very important to keep a record of your original factory values.

2/ There is no sense of changing the service menu unless you have the appropriate test patterns to show you what needs to be adjusted. So yes, you should wait for your calibration disc before messing with the service menu.

3/ My tweaks will be for 480p/480i because my DVD player, which will play the Digital VE disc, can only output 480i/480p. Many parameters will be input independent. Other settings can be duplicated across inputs. For those 1080i-specific adjustments, I can still be creative. Occasionally, HDNet broadcasts 1080i video test patterns. I'll just have to wait for those if I have to.

----------------------------------

wco81,

Calibration disc such as VE, Digital VE, AVIA, etc. will help a lot even if you just want to adjust the user menu. Only you can decide what level of calibration you want to do to your TV. Some people will pay for ISF. Others like me will tackle the job themselves. Still, others are just happy with the basic user menu.

As for me, I need the service menu for geometry (including overscan), and color temperature adjustments at the very least. Depending on what the Digital VE test patterns reveal, I may need the service menu to adjust the convergence, and focus as well. If I have red push, then only the service menu will fix it. And so on ...

My 910's picture right now looks perfect to everybody that has seen it. The calibration info that I'll post here will let people know what kind of improvement can be done on the seemingly perfect out-of-the-box picture.

Consider this simple color/tint setup as described in Haukap's Section 3.7 and here (http://www.cybercollege.com/montsetup.htm) , you will need to use the color filters, or manually turning on/off the individual electron guns. Many people will use the color filters (some do it because they don't have a choice). I prefer turning on/off the electron guns because I can do it in the service menu, and it's more accurate.

It's too early to tell what I can/can not achieve. Two more weeks, then you'll know.

Edited to fix http link, and reference to Haukap's calibration instructions

[NTN1]

Attached is the ISF data sheet mentioned in the "calibration of my 34xbr910" (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=300589) thread by iSSues.

Before calibration, his TV color temp was running high at around 9K across all IRE levels (BTW, my 910 exhibits the same symptom comparing to the 6.5K output of my computer monitor). Blue tracking accuracy was also off. Thanks iSSues for providing the data.

[jayfsee007]

Originally posted by NTN1
I am still breaking in my TV

My 34XBR910 arrives today.

Exactly what is the break in period and how should I break the TV in?

[NTN1]

jayfsee007,

The experts recommend at least 100 hours before cabliration. I have been watching TV for at least 5 hours/day for the past 28 days. That should be enough for me.

Before the actual cal, let your TV operates for at least an hour.

When you do any color comparison by eyeballing, don't look at your TV for more than a couple of minutes at a time because your eyes can fool you by adapting to subtle color differences. Ignore this comment if you have an optical color comparator.

[jayfsee007]

Thanks for the info NTN1. You seem pretty knowledgeable and I'm wondering if you could give me your opinion on another 34XBR910 issue.

I have my 34XBTR910 hooked up to a Denon DVD-1600 through component progressive scan.

On films with an aspect ratio of 2.35 : 1, the TV will of course display small black letter box bars.
On this TV, the first one or two lines of pixels after the black bars is lighter in color than the rest of the picture.
The effect is is almost as if someone has drawn a light colored line dividing the black bar and the picture.

Here are my questions;

Is this something to do with overscanning or underscanning?
Is it something an ISF Tecnicial could fix in the service menu?

Your opinion would be greatly appreciated.

[Blackvette94]

I just got the 30xbr910 and I wanted fix the horizontal underscan on it. Now my questions is a few posts above me someone said



"When you hit muting the upper right item on the screen will change to a green WRITE. If you hit enter within about two seconds, WRITE will change to red. This rewrites all items, not just the item you are currently adjusting."

Now this cares me! I have done adjustments on other sony tvs but this is new to me, I mean it changes ALL settings. SO how would I save just the adjustments I made to the Horizontal size without hurting other settings? Any help would be great!!! This tv does indeed rock! Thank you!

[salsbst]

Could you turn off your TV and unplug it for a bit, then plug it in, turn it on, make the one change that you want to make, and then WRITE that change. Would this be the best way to absolutely ensure that you don't write an inadvertent setting permanently?

[Blackvette94]

I REALLY need to know how to change one setting ( Horizontal size) thats all! I dont want to mess with any thing else, how can I do this with out messing it up? Clicking mute then enter to save it should be ok right? PLease anyone help me figure this out, thank you!

[iSSues]

If i where you guys i would pay someone to do this all for you. My guy fixed everything fro 275.00 but we paid 2500.00 for the TV. So we want a 100 pic out of it. When it's done the black's look so rich and the color is much more life like not all bright which i hate. my over scan if fix,red push gone black and dark colors prefect. Up to you guys but 275.oo is not that much money.

[ADU]

I REALLY need to know how to change one setting ( Horizontal size) thats all! I dont want to mess with any thing else, how can I do this with out messing it up? Clicking mute then enter to save it should be ok right? PLease anyone help me figure this out, thank you! The only way you can change values in the service menu that I'm aware of is by pressing the 3 and 6 buttons on the remote. If you change just 2170D-2/HSIZ with these buttons, and don't mess with any of the other settings, I don't see why there should be a problem

[Blackvette94]

Thank you ADU!!! I did exaclty what I died with my old wega, I changed the h size and pressed mute then enter, and presto no underscan!! Is underscan a common thing? I know overscan is but underscan? Seems kinda weird, and yes it was set on full screen mode so it shouldn't have space on the sides. Anyway I am anxious to change the convergence on this baby, if its similar in style to a pc monitor I can do it no probs, the schemetics for the 910 seem straightforward enough on the convergence. The top of mine is off ( red) and the left ( red ) and the right (blue). The picture needs to have the horizontal convergence brought down. alittle. Do you have any suggestion ADU? It seems the 910 has alot more settings for convergence! Thanks!

[NTN1]

I have finished the initial calibration of my 910 for 480i/component-video-5-input using Digital VE. The adjustments cover the geometry (including overscan), brightness/contrast, color decoder (color/tint), color temperature (D65/6500K gray scale, white level), and convergence. I'll try to verify the tweaks with 480p tonight, after MNF, and 1080i HD tomorrow morning, using HDNet HD test patterns. FYI, the broadcast is 7:30-8:00AM EDT on HDNet.

I'll post initial comments later today. Soon, I'll post my calibration data for all 1080i/480p/480i inputs, and procedures.


---------------------
jayfsee007,

I have watched numerous 1080i HD letter-boxed movies from HDNet Movie, HBO HD, and Showtime HD. Most of them didn't have the lighter scan letter-box line(s). Few movies did have them. The light scan lines must have come with the source signal.

Over the weekend, I watched Super Speedway II on three different progressive-scan DVD players on my 910, using component video 5 input. The letter-boxed segment came out nice and clean, with no lighter scan lines at all at the top or bottom of the picture.

I don't think the lighter letter box lines come from the 910, and therefore, not fixable in the service menu. Yours could come from the DVD itself or the DVD player. It has nothing to do with over/under-scanning.

I assumed that you saw this problem on all DVDs that you played on the 910, and that the problem only presented itself on the 910 and not on any other TV. Correct? Check your DVD player's picture quality settings. Maybe there are some enhancement features that are not compatible with the 910. More on this when I write up my calibration report. Sorry I can not help you more.

[NTN1]

HDNet 1080i video test patterns ran for 10 minutes this morning. I only had time to check color/tint, and geometry position. I'll check the brightness/contrast, and other parameters in future broadcasts.

The three DVD players that I used to play the Digital VE (DVE) disc for calibration all had slightly different black levels when all enhancements were disabled. It was impossible to tell which one was correct. The DVD players were all progressive scan, and could output blacker-than-black: Sony DVP-S530D, JVC XV-N44, and Panasonic DVD-S31.

When you calibrate your TV using a calibration disc, you actually tune it to your DVD player. It's fine if the only thing you care to watch is DVD. If you watch a lot of broadcast HD programs, either OTA or DirecTV, it's important to verify your tweaks with broadcast test patterns.

I now have all 1080i/480i/480p values. Most of values that I originally adjusted in 480i also affected the 480p and 1080i. Early comments on my 910's out-of-the-box performance in Pro-Warm mode with the DVE test patterns:

Geometry: very good overall. This is the toughest one. I spent over 12 hours tweaking, and it's still not perfect. Some of the grids lines are still not completely straight. Will try again later. The picture was just over 5% overscan, and off center a bit. It's now less than 4% overall, and dead center. Linearity was a little off. It's now near perfect.

Brightness/contrast: In Pro-Warm mode, the picture was slightly dark by calibration standard. Both sub-contrast, and sub-brightness had to be boosted a little bit.

Color/tint: there was red push. The color decoder was precisely corrected by reducing red chroma (increase value) and boosting green chroma (decrease value). Sub-color saturation had to be boosted a bit as well. Sub-hue (tint) was almost perfect, just one tick off (from 30 to 29).

Color temperature: Using 2 computer monitors (Sony and Dell) as references, the 910 out-of-the-box color temp was around 8000K in Pro-Warm mode. I was able to get it to very near 6500K by reducing Blue Amp (BDRV), and Blue Bias (BCUT) quite a lot. Green Amp, and Green Bias were turned down a little bit as well.

Convergence: Using DVE grid test pattern, you can only adjust the red/blue on the left/right sides of a white vertical line. You can not fix the red/blue on top/bottom sides of a white horizontal line. Thank God the 910 was very good with the horizontal-line convergence. My 910 only had the red off by one horizontal scan line in the upper right corner. Convergence were improved a bit through the Service menu. Perfection was impossible, unless I opened up the box, and started messing with the circuitry.

I am documenting the procedures, and data. I'll post both in a few days. Stay tuned.

[spongebob]

NTN,

You can do all this with digital VE? How do you know you are at 6500 without an analyzer?

thx

bob

[Iceblade]

Yep, I had the same exact question. I watched most of DVE last night and other than having a b**** of a time navigating it, it didn't really seem to contain much more info than the original version. They still discuss things as if we are using old analog CRT's and just have a brief mention of the new digital sets in the "Troubleshooting" section. I guess it's possible I just fell asleep when they put up some new/better test to set white and black levels with these sets, but I didn't think so. I do LOVE how they did the three color filters mounted in cardboard. Very cool and MUCH easier not to get them all goobered up with hand and finger schmegma. :)

I'll be interested to see how the heck I get to the more advanced test patterns and such. I couldn't seem to get there once I was actually watching the DVD itself. Also, setting gray scale without a color analyzer would be AWESOME... though I have no idea how you would do that and I don't recall them mentioning it... other than perhaps using that handheld filter looking thing and comparing. I can't recall what they called it in the DVD. Anyone?

Later,
Jeff

[NTN1]

spongebob,

You can do all of those with any calibration disc: AVIA, VE, or DVE. For the 6500K tweak without a color analyzer, I used 2 computer monitors, a Kodak 18% neutral gray photographic card, and an overcast/cloudy sky.

The 6500K outputs of my computer monitors were somewhat different, although their 9300K were very much similar. I used them mainly to get the overall color temp down close to the estimated 6500K range, then used the gray card under natural overcast light to hone in on the exact setting.

First, I put the DVE-12/14 reversed gray ramps on the 910, and this grayscale chart (http://www.mediacollege.com/images/iresource/itech/greyscale01.gif) on the monitors flanking on both sides of the TV.

The chart was enlarged to fill the entire monitor screen. By switching the monitors between 5000K, 6500K, and 9300K, while looking at the 910, I saw how "cool" the out-of-the-box 910 picture was even in Pro-Warm mode. The uncalibrated 910 kind of matched the 8000K of one monitor, which had variable color temp setting.

Next, I adjusted BCUT & GCUT to get the low-IRE bars to come fairly close to those of the monitors. Then I tweaked the BDRV & GDRV to bring the color temp of the high-IRE bars down to the approximate 6500K of the computer monitors. Finally, I used the gray card to hone in on the settings. Most likely, the 18% gray card would match one of the bars in term of brightness. I repeated this process many times to get a color temp match. A wrong match would give a greenish, or reddish/purplish picture. In the end, my 910's grayscale appeared much warmer, and had the neutral gray color of the photographic card. The 100 IRE closely matched the white overcast sky. That was good enough for me.

Already, I could see differences in color and brightness/contrast levels between HD/SD programs through my Hughes E86, and the calibrated DVD programs. The calibrated DVD looked fantastic. The broadcast signals looked darker with higher color saturation. My 910 has only been tuned for my particular DVD player, and not perfectly tuned for broadcast signals through my particular E86 STB yet.

DVE helped getting the calibration very close for broadcast HD. For $275, I could get ISF 1080i calibration with a signal generator, but I would rather wait for more future HDNet broadcasts to get it right.

Edited to correct the DVE pattern #

[Alan Sh]

Originally posted by Iceblade
I'll be interested to see how the heck I get to the more advanced test patterns and such. I couldn't seem to get there once I was actually watching the DVD itself.



If you have a DVD player which allows the title to be numerically entered, then enter the 12-17 number corresponding to the reference card.

On my DVD players in which I have to use the menu command, I almost decided that they are inaccessible when I discovered:

1. If you see Program Menu at the bottom of the screen you are in a sub-menu. Hit Program Menu.
2. The main program menu has Progam Guide as the third item in the left column. Hit it.
3. Now hit the second item in the right column, Reference Materials.
4. This screen shows titles 8-11. Ignore the Return at the bottom of the screen and hit the right arrow beside it.
5. You can now get to titles 12-14. Hit the right arrow if you wish to get to titles 15-17.
6. On the one DVD player I have tested hit play to get to the next chapter. Each chapter is stopped.

[Iceblade]

Thanks, Alan. I'll printing this out and taking it home tonight! :)

Regs,
Jeff



Originally posted by Alan Sh
If you have a DVD player which allows the title to be numerically entered, then enter the 12-17 number corresponding to the reference card.

On my DVD players in which I have to use the menu command, I almost decided that they are inaccessible when I discovered:

1. If you see Program Menu at the bottom of the screen you are in a sub-menu. Hit Program Menu.
2. The main program menu has Progam Guide as the third item in the left column. Hit it.
3. Now hit the second item in the right column, Reference Materials.
4. This screen shows titles 8-11. Ignore the Return at the bottom of the screen and hit the right arrow beside it.
5. You can now get to titles 12-14. Hit the right arrow if you wish to get to titles 15-17.
6. On the one DVD player I have tested hit play to get to the next chapter. Each chapter is stopped.

[jayfsee007]

NTN1. Thanks for your input.

To answer your questions, I am seeing this problem on all 2.35AR DVD's I play. It effects some DVD's more than others.

I've tried Pro mode, with Sharpness at minimum, amd VM off.
I've tried a new DVD Player - the Samsung HD931.

I've run the same DVD at the same time through the 34XBR910 and a Panasonic 27 inch TV. The results were that the lines persisted on the 34XBR910 but were not visible on the Panasonic.

Nothing seems to help.

The TV is adding about two lines of lighter pixels and then what appears to be a thin black thread line (not the guide wires) after the black letterbox bars.

Another forum member who has been very helpful said that this may be a convergence issue. How could I tell if the convergence was off ?

Would it be worth my while to pay an ISF tech to come out to my house and look at the problem?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[Alan Sh]

Originally posted by jayfsee007

The TV is adding about two lines of lighter pixels and then what appears to be a thin black thread line (not the guide wires) after the black letterbox bars.



Are you saying the sequence goes top black bar, 2 light lines, black line, movie?

If you have either Avia or DVE it would be interesting to know what you see in the crosshatch test patterns.

Have you tried turning on the progressive scan button located on the left side of the HD931?

Have you called Sony 1-800-222-7669 and see what they say?

I have the HD931 and am not experiencing the problems you describe.

[jayfsee007]

Originally posted by Alan Sh
Are you saying the sequence goes top black bar, 2 light lines, black line, movie?

If you have either Avia or DVE it would be interesting to know what you see in the crosshatch test patterns.

Have you tried turning on the progressive scan button located on the left side of the HD931?

Have you called Sony 1-800-222-7669 and see what they say?

I have the HD931 and am not experiencing the problems you describe.

I am attaching a screenshot from The Fifth Element that should give you some indication of what the problem looks like.



The sequence does go top black bar, 2 light lines, black line, movie.

I have tried both the DVD-1600 and the HD-931 in all modes and I still seem to be experiencing this problem.

To be honest, if I cannot get this figured out within the next day or so the TV is going back.

It may sound cynical but I have no intention of calling Sony so I can sit on hold for half an hour and then be informed by some 16 year old telephone operator that my DVD player is substandard and the cause of the problem because it is not a Sony Product

[jjmilo]

jayfsee007

[jjmilo]

jayfsee007 I am not sure whether you have tried this but in the User Menu, choose Screen. You can then adjust the Vertical Center and the Vertical Size. This however can only be used with the Wide Zoom and Zoom modes.

PS: Sorry about my earlier post mishap

[jayfsee007]

Originally posted by jjmilo
jayfsee007 I am not sure whether you have tried this but in the User Menu, choose Screen. You can then adjust the Vertical Center and the Vertical Size. This however can only be used with the Wide Zoom and Zoom modes.

PS: Sorry about my earlier post mishap

Good call jjmilo but I have tried this and alas.. this does not help either.

I find it hard to believe that this kind of a problem could;

a) Just be DVD edge enhancement and present on most DVD's and something we all have to live with.
b) Something no-one else has noticed on their $2,500.00 TV's.
c) Something everone is aware of and willing to live with on their $2,500.00 TV's.

I realize I am a nitpicker but once I notice something like this my eye is constantly drawn to it ?

I'm glad I posted the photo. I'm interested to hear everyones thoughts...

[umr]

jayfsee007,

I believe what you are seeing is enhancement added by the TV. You might want to check out signal bandwidth and filtering adjustments in the MID and 2170P circuitry. These would include parameters like MHLY, MVLY, MHYL and SYSM.

[Alan Sh]

jayfsee007

Below is a photo I took of my XRR910 with Superbit version at 31:29 trying to match the colors your photo had since I didn't know the time. This uses the HD931 set at 480p analog. Sharpness is off.

Using PowerDVD I captured the frame and examined it with Visual Basic. Row 59 which is the first row is brighter than row 60 by about 10 red using RGB values.

[jayfsee007]

Originally posted by Alan Sh
jayfsee007

Below is a photo I took of my XRR910 with Superbit version at 31:29 trying to match the colors your photo had since I didn't know the time. This uses the HD931 set at 480p analog. Sharpness is off.

Using PowerDVD I captured the frame and examined it with Visual Basic. Row 59 which is the first row is brighter than row 60 by about 10 red using RGB values.

Your screen capture looks very like what I am seeing on my 910.

How can we tell if this is;

a) Edge enhancement added by the TV
b) Edge enhancement on the DVD

I do not think it is added by the DVD Player as I have tried both the DVD-1600 and the HD931 and had the same problem.

UMR mentions some service menu adjustments below;

Originally posted by umr
jayfsee007,

I believe what you are seeing is enhancement added by the TV. You might want to check out signal bandwidth and filtering adjustments in the MID and 2170P circuitry. These would include parameters like MHLY, MVLY, MHYL and SYSM.

I have never gone into the service menu on a TV and I would not even know where to begin or even how to navigate around the service menu.

EEEeeegads... what to do... My 30 day return window at CC is slowly closing.

[Alan Sh]

UMR-

Thank you very much. I changed MID5 MVLY from a 0 to a 1 and it had a immediate noticeable effect in reducing the brightness of the top line or two of 2.35 movies. Now it looks more like my Sony PFM-32C1 plasma in that respect. I also want to thank you for the information you provided in your .pdf.

jayfsee007 -

I think this change would affect your set. In my post at the top of this thread I indicated some of the precautions I had taken. You ought to at least read these instructions as well as the links pointed at in NTN1's post following mine.

This is actually one of the safer first changes to make. The key is taking the time to be careful and carefully reading instructions . It is definitely as UMR says in his .pdf PROCEED AT YOUR OWN RISK.

[jayfsee007]

Originally posted by Alan Sh
When you hit muting the upper right item on the screen will change to a green WRITE. If you hit enter within about two seconds, WRITE will change to red. This rewrites all items, not just the item you are currently adjusting.[/B]

Two questions;

1) Am I correct in stating that to save the change one makes to a registar you must press mute-enter and that if I have only changed one registar this is the only one that will be changed.

2) If I go into the Service Menu and make any this change is the warranty for the TV voided.

I am still considering sending the TV back and I don't want to have problems with the return if they can tell I have been in the service menu.

[ADU]

Mute-Enter will store any and all changes made to the 'registers' (good word). AFAIK, if the value is changed on just a single register, then that's all that should be stored.

I have no idea how service menu changes would effect returns or warrantees. FWIW, one could at least change the values back to the original settings.

I think some of the Filter settings UMR mentioned may be Picture Mode, Signal or Input sensitive BTW, meaning they could possibly have different values depending on whether the TV is in Vivid, Standard, Movie or Pro mode (the Picture Modes can be toggled while in the service menu using either the Pic Mode button the remote or via the User Menu). Until one has a better idea what the individual registers effect, it's not a bad idea to record the Picture Mode, Signal Type (1080i, 480p, etc.), Video Input, and Aspect Ratio (Full, Wide, etc.) for any item changed, just to be on the safe side.

Before switching my 34xbr800 to the bypassed 1080i, I did change MID5/MHLY to 0 on Pro mode. This seemed to reduce horizontal blurriness in that mode, FWIW. I don't remember this particular register having any effect on the letterbox edges though, and never tried changing the MVLY or SYSM settings.

[umr]

When you are experimenting with these settings it is best to use a high resolution pattern. I prefer Jim Taylor's "DVD Demystified" crossing single pixel lines for this task. Some of the resolution patterns on Avia or VE would be useful as well. DVE on D-VHS is useful for HD signals.

You need to be aware of the effects on verticle and horizontal lines. Most of the patterns on AVIA and VE tend to emphasize vertical lines.

When Alan Sh increased MVLY he added a little bit of filtering to the horizontal lines. This might soften the picture a little, but it would tend to eliminate ringing.

I have found changing SYSM to be the most effective in the past at eliminating/reducing the ringing you are seeing. I do not know if this set has the parameter though.

[jayfsee007]

Originally posted by umr
When you are experimenting with these settings it is best to use a high resolution pattern. I prefer Jim Taylor's "DVD Demystified" crossing single pixel lines for this task. Some of the resolution patterns on Avia or VE would be useful as well. DVE on D-VHS is useful for HD signals.

You need to be aware of the effects on verticle and horizontal lines. Most of the patterns on AVIA and VE tend to emphasize vertical lines.

When Alan Sh increased MVLY he added a little bit of filtering to the horizontal lines. This might soften the picture a little, but it would tend to eliminate ringing.

I have found changing SYSM to be the most effective in the past at eliminating/reducing the ringing you are seeing. I do not know if this set has the parameter though.

In the Service Menu

a) How do I change the input (480I, 480P, etc)
b) How do I change the Wide Mode
c) What should I set SYSM to as for example it is currently set to 1 for 480I

Gotta say this service menu stuff is making me real nervous

[umr]

Originally posted by jayfsee007
In the Service Menu

a) How do I change the input (480I, 480P, etc)
b) How do I change the Wide Mode
c) What should I set SYSM to as for example it is currently set to 1 for 480I

Gotta say this service menu stuff is making me real nervous

You change the inputs in the service menu just as you would normally. The type is dependent on what type of signal is being input currently.

Wide mode is changed in the service menu just as you would normally.

One is a narrower bandwidth than 2 or 3 for SYSM. I would place a resolution pattern like the Avia 200 TVL pattern on the screen and see what looks best to you. I use a setting of 3 for all of my input types (1080i, 720p, 480p and 480i) on my GWII.

It is not a bad idea to be a little nervous. You can muck things up if you are not careful.

[umr]

Here is another post about SYSM.

Sony XBR Info (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=1289781#post1289781)

[NTN1]

I have documented my calibration procedures. Version 3 sevice menu data also included.

HDNet is rebroadcasting test patterns again tomorrow morning. I hope they do this every Tuesday, so I can tweak my STB's 1080i feed.

[Fitzie]

NTN1, regarding 34xbr910 calibration:

Nice job. And what a job it must have been.

Thanks!

Fitzie

[umr]

NTN1,

Nice post.

You might want to try switching off the blue gun when adjusting the green and red gray scale (target is a perfect yellow in this case). Followed by adjusting only blue when you turn on that gun. I have found this to be quite a bit easier than adjusting all of the colors at one time.

[Alan Sh]

NTN1 - Thanks.

I think it is important that NTN1 has summarized the information in a fashion similar to what UMR has done. This makes both much more accessible. I also have found the summarizing of links that ADU has done, along with putting them in his signature to be very helpful.

I did not understand that there was a common underlying structure which allows useful information to be shared within Sony models and even technology types. The Sony PFM-32C1 plasma service menu is different. There is very little need to enter it in the first place as positioning controls are separate buttons on the remote and R,G,B settings can be made in the user menu.

In order to correct overscan in the NORMAL window I found it necessary to use three registers not described:
MID3 0 VDHP horizontal position
MID3 1 VDHS horizontal size
MID3 3 VDVS vertical size
I added the information in my post at the top of the thread.

I think this also points out that that they sometimes make adjustment mistakes at the factory. My new 4:3 settings are very different from what I received and more closely match the factory defaults.

[grayphish]

Thank you for your posts.

I received DVE yesterday and want to fix geometry problems.
I already read AWH Sony Service Mode web pages, but it is
not that detailed instructions.

Anybody knows where I can get the information like
step-by-step service mode setup?

Displaying geometry test pattern of DVE differs by dvd players?
I have Deawoo DVD-5700 cheap player that seems to crop images
of both sides. I can see cropped images since some words cut on
left and right ends.

[spongebob]

Originally posted by umr
NTN1,

Nice post.

You might want to try switching off the blue gun when adjusting the green and red gray scale (target is a perfect yellow in this case). Followed by adjusting only blue when you turn on that gun. I have found this to be quite a bit easier than adjusting all of the colors at one time.


umr

What do you mean by "target is a perfect yellow"?

thx
bob

[NTN1]

umr,

Many thanks for sharing your Sony RPTV calibration data. I learned a lot from it. I have read too many posts and articles about TV calibration on this forum, as well as all over the Internet. Yours was one of only two documents worth studying, that I selected as reference materials, to keep newcomers focus on the 910 calibration.

Regarding the D65 adjustment, I did try your method first, and had a hard time deciding what was pure yellow. I found that judging the gray color by looking at the entire gray scale filling the TV and monitor screens was easiest for me. Tweaking blue and green was no big deal. For the 910, I just dropped a lot of blue, a tiny bit of green, then tweaked a-tick-here a-tick-there with a gray card. As shown in my data, I had to reduce BCUT relatively a lot more than BDRV because the 910 was much "cooler" on the low IRE side than on the high IRE side. People should try whatever method that may work for them. I forgot to mention that I did "calibrate" the monitors before I used them as D65 references. Instructions here (http://www.internetcampus.com/montsetup.htm). I used the color filters that came with the DVE for the monitor setup, and reduced the overall brightness of the monitors to match the 910. Thanks again.

-----------------------------------
grayphish,

Every TV set has different geometry due to tolerances within the set itself, also due to the environment and the Earth magnetic field where you live. I don't think there is a step-by-step instructions. You will just have to adjust the tilt, linearity, overscan, etc. as needed for your particular TV set at your particular location. If you want good geometry, you'll need a ruler, a square, and a lot of time to get it right. I spent over 15 hours of tedious measurements on the geometry alone, trying different combinations of adjustment parameters.

Your TV seems to have severe overscan problem, which can be easily fixed with the size and position adjustments. Not only each DVD player is different, but the same DVD player will output different picture on the geometry, depending on the signal format. My perfect 480i geometry setup somehow shifted a little off-center when I switched to 480p on the same DVD player, and the same TV input. However, other aspects of geometry remained unchanged between input types and signal formats. So, tune your TV to your particular DVD input, and signal format. Did you record your TV's original service menu factory values? It's extremely important.

I'll post my final comments on the calibration soon, then close the book on this.

[grayphish]

Thank you NTN1.

I tried some last night with your v3 data.
Comparing with your data, there's not that much different in numbers.
I hooked Daewoo DVD-5700 dvd player thru component-maybe 480i.

I spent about 4 hours to correct geometry problems.
If I had more hours to do, I might stay with.

Whew~. CRT TV set, KV34XBR910, is little different from the
projectors I have usually played with. The projectors have
regional geometry correction keys-still they make me sick
for many hours though.

I didn't save what I tried on my 34KVXBR910.
But I'm still happy with 34KVXBR910-bright & clear display.

I try again to correct geometry problem later.
If I would have good sense at the moment, I may share
what I would do on the unit.

Thank you again.

[eddieb187]

Hi all.
New to this forum.
I just got my 910 Thursday and I love it.
Out of the box my picture isn't too bad.
HD is unbelievable as is Prog. DVD.
SD isn't the greatest but I can live with that.
I'm having a problem with PQ.
It's really dark, especially in the day time.
Night isn't so bad.
I really don't like using the Vivid mode, Movie and pro are way too dark.
Standard is ok, but if I bump up the brightness the color washes out and contrast looks pale.
Not too crazy about entering the service mode but if it will fix the darkness I will.
You guys seem very Knowledgeable.
Can you recommend any adjustments to fix this.
Thanks,
Eddie

[spongebob]

eddie

Are you watching in a bright, sunlit room? Sun shining on the screen?

bob

[ADU]

There are sub-Picture adjustments in the service menu that can boost the contrast, however I think I better leave that to some of the folks here with actual 910-SM battle experience. There may be somethin about it in the attached files.

In the meantime, you can also increase the contrast with the User Menu/Picture control (Brightness will boost the black level which is not what you want). And if you're watching DVDs, the player may have it's own Vivid modes or Picture/Contrast adjustment that you can use to boost the brightness of shadow detail to make the DVDs more watchable during the day.

FWIW, boosting the contrast on the TV does have the potential to increase blooming, burn-in and also shorten the life of the TV's phosphors, particularly if you leave the set on for extended periods.

[ADU]

I was just wondering, if there's dynamic picture compensation on the 910 does anyone know if or how that might come into play on convergence tweaks?

[eddieb187]

Originally posted by spongebob
eddie

Are you watching in a bright, sunlit room? Sun shining on the screen?

bob

No.
Bright room. Indirect afternoon sun from the right side.

[eddieb187]

Originally posted by ADU
There are sub-Picture adjustments in the service menu that can boost the contrast, however I think I better leave that to some of the folks here with actual 910-SM battle experience. There may be somethin about it in the attached files.

In the meantime, you can also increase the contrast with the User Menu/Picture control (Brightness will boost the black level which is not what you want). And if you're watching DVDs, the player may have it's own Vivid modes or Picture/Contrast adjustment that you can use to boost the brightness of shadow detail to make the DVDs more watchable during the day.

FWIW, boosting the contrast on the TV does have the potential to increase blooming, burn-in and also shorten the life of the TV's phosphors, particularly if you leave the set on for extended periods.

Thanks.
I tried the picture all the way up & then raised the brightness a little. Much better, but I wonder if like you said it will burn in? I thought tubes didn't have that problem, only RPTV & plasma? Picture looks better though. I hope there's a setting in the service mode to fix this. The rest of the problems I've had, mainly color issues, I was able correct somewhat with user menus.

[eddieb187]

Has anyone had their XBR910 calibrated by an ISF certified tech.
If so, was it really worth it?

[spongebob]

Originally posted by eddieb187
No.
Bright room. Indirect afternoon sun from the right side.


How does it look at night, or even better, in a darkened room (movie mode)?

bob

[eddieb187]

I'm watching MNF in a dark room. Vivid is actually too bright, Standard is perfect, movie & pro are ok, all with default settings. The picture is unbelievable! ABC really broadcasts a fantastic HD signal.
My problem is in the daytime the room is bright. If I watch a dark DVD it's a real problem.

[ADU]

This may not be precisely what you're after, but have you tried boosting the Picture/Contrast or using the Vivid modes (if any) on the player?

[eddieb187]

I have the Panasonic DVD-S35.
There's an adjustment for 480p out. Manual says to put it on darker. I tried lighter, doesn't seem to make much difference. I'll see if there's another way to make the picture brighter.
Thanks

[kmaniac]

Just a thought from a technically inept newbie.
Awaiting my 910, and amassing as much calibration knowledge as possible. I'm not sure I'll have the guts to mess with the service menu when the time comes anyway.
Much talk here about the need for a HD signal such as a broadcast to facilitate 1080i calibration.
Is it not possible to make use of the memory stick feature as a HD quality signal/source??

[Iceblade]

kmaniac,

The question is not whether the source is high enough rez, but whether the TV DETECTS a given signal. These TV's have a detection circuit and that determines (along with which input you have currently selected) which settings will be affected in the SM. The incoming signal frequency is the major determining factor if I recall correctly.

I'm sure someone can be more specific. ADU or UMR, you got the scoop?

Later,
Jeff

Originally posted by kmaniac
Just a thought from a technically inept newbie.
Awaiting my 910, and amassing as much calibration knowledge as possible. I'm not sure I'll have the guts to mess with the service menu when the time comes anyway.
Much talk here about the need for a HD signal such as a broadcast to facilitate 1080i calibration.
Is it not possible to make use of the memory stick feature as a HD quality signal/source??

[ADU]

It's an interesting idea. Memory sticks are supposed to support resolutions up to 4096x4096. But I'm not sure what display mode they use (480p or 1080i). Maybe that could be determined in the service menu.

[NTN1]

eddieb187,
The 910 tube can only be so bright before it burns out. If you really want brighter picture from the 910, I suggest you use vivid/standard mode. There is no sense of changing sub-picture/sub-brightness to get pro/movie modes brighter. By doing it, you actually turn pro/movie into vivid/standard. Then when you switch to vivid/standard, you will overdrive your poor TV tube, and burn the phosphors.


kmaniac,
Calibration is not so much about resolution of the picture, it's about tuning your TV set to the DVD player or STB that you are using to get the best picture.

As far as I am concerned, except for the D65 calibration, ISF is useless because the guy tunes the TV to the DVD player (which I can do easily, and much better for my TV), and to his 1080i signal generator. Unfortunately, the guy will take his generator away, when he finishes the job. ISF gives you a false sense of perfection.

As I have said repeatedly, all DVD players and STBs are slightly different when it comes to black level, color saturation, and some geometry (picture position, and size) . If you really care about the picture quality, you must do the calibration yourself to tune your TV to the equipment that you use to send the video signal to your TV. As for me, I only watch satellite/OTA 1080i HD from my Hughes E86. I have to tune my TV to my particular E86. For that, I need broadcast test patterns. If I ever have to switch to another E86, I'll have to recalibrate my TV again.

[NTN1]

I have just replaced my E86's original factory component cable with a home-made cable, using Belden 1694A precision 75-Ohm digital video coax, and Canare true 75-Ohm RCA connectors. Maybe due to the better connection (true 75-Ohm connect vs. standard 25-Ohm RCA, and better contacts), the super low-loss, and the precise 75-Ohm impedance of the Belden coax for perfect transmission-line impedance matching, I noticed a major jump in black level. My 1080i video feed from the E86 looked noticeably brighter overall. I'll have to re-tweak my 910 now.

There you have it: if you are super critical about picture quality, not only you have to re-tweak the calibration values when you switch DVD/STB, you'll have to re-check it when you switch video cable too.

[raouliii]

I recently purchased the 34HS510 and had performed an initial basic calibration on it prior to viewing this thread. Most service menu settings are common between the 34XBR910, 34XBR800, and the 34HS510. I am posting here because this is a very active thread and most of our issues are common. I have a soft copy of the 34XBR800 service manual. After reviewing it many times along with the XBR800 threads and this thread, I decided to ring in with my observations/thoughts on brightness, contrast and color decode adjustments. I hope that the comments below can help shed additional light on the subject.

Keep in mind that I am new to the particulars of service menu adjustments. However, I do work in an electronics field.

My observations and/or thoughts:

The 2103_1 section appears to be associated with the Chroma Main module while the 2103_2 section is associated with the Chroma Sub module in the block diagrams. These modules provide picture content for the left and right screens when in twin view mode. This is based upon a reading of the service adjustment procedures in the service manual.

These procedures include the following:

1: With a RF input and PIP, 2103_1(,2,SCON)(,3,SCOL) and (,4,SHUE) are adjusted as "main(left)" adjustments while 2103_2(,2,SCON)(,3,SCOL) and (,4,SHUE) are adjusted as "sub(right)" adjustments. These adjustments would alter the values in the RF column of the service manual data list.

2: With a 480i composite signal into VIDEO1, 2103_2(,2,SCON)and 2103_1(,3,SCOL) and (,4,SHUE) are adjusted. I believe the first 2103_2 reference is a typo but this is how my copy reads. These adjustments would alter the values in the CV/YC column of the data list. There is a CV/YC column for 2103_2 in the service manual data list so I would assume a PIP method akin to the above RF discussion could be accomplished.

Therefore,
RF input
Left screen of PIP: 2103_1,2,SCON & 2103_1,3,SCOL & 2103_1,4,SHUE
Right screen of PIP: 2103_2,2,SCON & 2103_2,3,SCOL & 2103_2,4,SHUE

CV/YC (video1, 2, 3 or 4)
Left screen of PIP: 2103_1,2,SCON & 2103_1,3,SCOL & 2103_1,4,SHUE
Right screen of PIP: 2103_2,2,SCON & 2103_2,3,SCOL & 2103_2,4,SHUE

I agree that 2170P_1,7,SBRT is a global adjustment.

2170_4,2,SPIC & 2170_4,2,SCOL & 2170_4,3,SHUE are input dependent but their column headings are DRC, VDO(V5/V6), VDO(DVI), MS and PT. The VDO headings make sense but I'm not sure how the others relate to the actual inputs. I have adjusted V5 values but no others.

2170_4,7 thru 2170_4,12 (UPIC, UBRT, UCOL, UHUE, USHP, and UTMP) have headings of Vivid, Standard, Movie and Pro. Pro shows default values of 31 for the first 5 and a 1 for the last. They are equivalent to the values one sees when viewing the menu video settings. I haven't tested this theory but these are either the values given to the menu video controls upon a reset or they are the values from the most recent menu video settings change. I would guess the former.

The 2170P_3 section has different tables for each combination of video mode and input. They are likely an avenue for minor mode/input specific adjustments to be made.

I hope the above helped in some way.

Raouliii

[ADU]

As you suggest, I'm pretty sure that UPIC, UBRT, UCOL, UHUE, USHP, and UTMP are used to set the default/reset values on Picture, Brightness, Color etc. for the different Picture Modes (Pro, Vivid, Movie, Standard) in the User Menu.

[NTN1]

raouliii,

Thanks for the info. It's always advantageous to have a service manual.

I'd like to add the following comments on the picture overscan and centering adjustments for those that use both component video inputs (video 5, and video 6) for 1080i and 480i/480p sources. For example, 1080i STB on Component Video 5, and a standard DVD player on Component Video 6:

First, adjust the picture position and size for your 1080i source:

MID1,8,MDHP <--- (this one is global, and will affect 480i/480p component in)
MID1,9,MDVP
MID1,10,MDHS <--- (this one is global, and will affect 480i/480p component in)
MID1,11,MDVS

If you don't have HDNet 1080i patterns, just tune to any satellite/OTA HD program, and adjust so that the black borders are just outside the viewing area.

After you are done calibrating your 1080i input, adjust the picture position and size for your 480i/480p source:

MID2,0,DRHP
MID2,1,DRHS
MID2,2,DRVP
MID2,3,DRVS

The MID2 adjustments will not affect the MID1 that you did for your HD source.

[videojanitor]

Originally posted by Alan Sh
To set NORMAL I used the fact that the picture should be 22.2 inches wide. For NORMAL this creates the size and position of the 4:3 window but does not correct overscan within the window. To do this I put the DVE title 12 chapter 17 1.33 overscan pattern up and used the following registers:

MID3 0 VDHP horizontal position
MID3 1 VDHS horizontal size
MID3 3 VDVS vertical size

Whoa nelly! I think this is the information I've been looking for. When displaying 4:3 material on my XBR910, I've noticed that the image is "cropped" -- that is, the entire 4:3 image isn't displayed, even though there is ample room (as evidenced by the black side-panels). Are you saying this THIS adjustment will correct that (specifically, the "VDHS" adjustment?).

I've got the service manual for this set on order, but I fear it may not be very detailed on what these adjustments do, so if you (or anyone else) has some concrete info on this, I'd love to hear it. Thanks!

--Bill R.

[Alan Sh]

Originally posted by videojanitor
... the entire 4:3 image isn't displayed..... Are you saying this THIS adjustment will correct that (specifically, the "VDHS" adjustment?).


--Bill R.

Yes. Since MID3 VDHS only adjusts the size of the 4:3 window on one side, you also have to keep adjusting MID3 VDHP.

[videojanitor]

Alan,

Thanks so much for the info -- I tried it, and it worked like a charm!

Here's a weird one I ran into though -- once I had everything exactly as I wanted it, both horizontally and vertically, I wrote the values to memory, turned off the set, then turned it back on. For whatever reason, the VERTICAL position on both 480i and 480p sources was shifted DOWN. I had to go back into the service menu and push each one of them back UP by about 8 "increments" or whatever you want to call them, and then saved the settings, powered back up, and it was in the right spot.

Strange, but true ...

Also, one thing I didn't see here was an adjustment for vertical POSITION on MID3 (which appears to affect 480p signals only) -- I found that to be "VDRE" .... (why not VDVP??)

--Bill R.

[codpiece]

does anyone know what the Y-DC parameter is called in the service menu of the new xbr910? has anyone messed with this?

In previous sony sets, changing this parameter from a 1 to a 0 would help the set hold blacks better, especially when the overall brightness is increased? thanks for all the work that has been done.

[sengsational]

Originally posted by Alan Sh
Correcting Picture tilt
This can be done from the user menu. MENU|Setup| Tilt Correction

Horizontal and vertical position and size
There are separate settings for Normal and Full.
MID1 8 MDHP horizontal position
MID1 9 MDVP vertical postion
MID1 10 MDHS horizontal size
MID1 11 MDVS vertical size


Thanks for posting where the "tilt" was. I searched the forums for "skew" and "angle" and found nothing. Right on the user menu!

Earlier, I found some service menu stuff in the GWIII section that suggested using MID1 0 DHPH, MID1 1 DVPH, MID1 10 MDHS, MID1 11 MDVS. I wonder what's the difference between using menu items 0,1 versus 8,9.

--Dale--

[JoeKing]

hi, I love this thread and want to thank everybody for the valuable info. I don't have the 910 but I do have the 34XBR800 and have now fine tuned my TV sets red convergence, dynamic focus, eliminated red push, and increased the clarity/edge enhancement(copied the MID5 settings) in my set's MOVIE mode so that it is the same as VIVID. That resulted in an image that to me is the best of both worlds. The shadow detail is excellent and the image is clean and clear as well with minimal ringing and no added artifacts when viewing DVDs.

I have a couple of questions....

In the movie setting, there doesn't seem to be a way to get the pure blacks to be as rich as they are in the STANDARD mode. I was hoping that there is a way to get deep blacks and still retain shadow detail through the service menu.

Also, I have the same question as coldpiece about making my set hold blacks as well as possible because when looking at anamorphic films there is some blooming seen through the letterbox that really bothers me. I have my contrast set as low as I can tolerate and still take advantage of my sets bright image(a notch above the midpoint) and my set is in a pretty dark room.
Another question is how to adjust the 34XBR800's blue convergence. I have adjusted the red and in ragamuffin's 34XBR800 servoce menu spreadsheet he says that you can adjust both the red and blue convergence.

thanks a lot. If any of you can answer even one of my questions I will be very happy.

[sengsational]

I think the answer is that you can change size based on what kind of signal you are getting (1080i, 480p, 480i), but what I would really like is based on input (Video1, ...Video7). I have my computer connected to the DVI input on the TV, and none of the powerstrip settings under the sun would show me the whole desktop. So into the service menu I went and changed MID1 0,1,10 and 11. I would have loved to change ONLY the DVI input (which, in my case, always has 1080i). The result is that the computer screen is wonderful, but 1) I had to cut off the bottom few pixels because some digital signals have a "green flashy line" at the bottom of the image that is distracting, and 2) some inputs are not centered any more (the 4:3 box is off to the right, for instance, and before I hit "zoom" when watching a DVD, the box isn't centered up and down).

None of this is a huge deal for me, but in another thread, someone thought they read about a way to manage the overscan issue in an input dependent manner. Like I said first, though, I think that was not correct, but wanted to get a specific answer, if one was out there. Thanks.

--Dale--

[Q of BanditZ]

So, if I buy the XBR910 anytime real soon here, do I need to hire somebody to do these things for me?

[Dancer]

I don't have the expertise of some of the people who frequent this forum, but my new 34XBR910 looked great out of the box. I was particularly trying to see this "red Push" last night during the FSU/MU game in the colors of the uniforms; I just couldn't see anything wrong.

Cliff

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
So, if I buy the XBR910 anytime real soon here, do I need to hire somebody to do these things for me?

[PatrickT]

my new 34XBR910 looked great out of the box. I was particularly trying to see this "red Push" last night

My 34XBR910 also looked great out of the box with no red push and no convergence or purity problems. Geometry is excellent.

The set is now 2 months old an hasn't shown any degradation. Inputs are component 1080i from a Comcast box and component 1080i from an off-air ATSC tuner. S-video from a DVD player and composite from an ordinary VCR round out the inputs. There is also analog cable to the built-in NTSC tuner and regular over-the-air NTSC into the second input.

I've not adjusted any "hidden" factory settings and have made only minor changes to the user setups.

In short, so far so good!

[Pikasauce]

Can I use these settings for a Sony 24HS510?

[ADU]

Although there may be some similarities in a few areas, overall I'd say no.

The 910 may have a bit more in common with the larger hi-scan Sonys.

[redsandvb]

To set NORMAL I used the fact that the picture should be 22.2 inches wide. For NORMAL this creates the size and position of the 4:3 window but does not correct overscan within the window. To do this I put the DVE title 12 chapter 17 1.33 overscan pattern up and used the following registers:

MID3 0 VDHP horizontal position
MID3 1 VDHS horizontal size
MID3 3 VDVS vertical size

I seem to be having trouble with this, when I change those values nothing changes. I've got my DVD player showing the pattern, and my tv in Normal mode. I must be missing something, what is it?

:(

[ADU]

Are you using an interlaced player? Maybe MID3 has no effect on 480i. In my tests (conducted only with Full mode on a 34xbr800) MID3 only seemed to effect 1080i and 480p. The relationships between the different MID controls is bit complex btw.

[redsandvb]

Originally posted by ADU
Are you using an interlaced player? Maybe MID3 has no effect on 480i. In my tests (conducted only with Full mode on a 34xbr800) MID3 only seemed to effect 1080i and 480p. The relationships between the different MID controls is bit complex btw.

Hrmm...nope. My player's in progressive mode when I do that.

I tried the MID2 settings mentioned earlier. If I remember correctly, this was a while ago, the size of the picture inside the Normal mode's window changed. I might have misunderstood what was posted before, but what I'm trying to do is adjust the size of the Normal window itself.

Thanks

[Alan Sh]

I edited my original post to try to make it clearer that the size of the 4:3 window is changed by the MID1 settings. The MID3 adjusts the information within that window.

"To set NORMAL I used the fact that the picture should be 22.2 inches wide and used the MID1 settings above."

[redsandvb]

Ok, I think I get it now.

Thanks guys.

[ADU]

Originally posted by RoninTS here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3433296#post3433296)
I just got my TV. Had it cal to 6500K. but when using RYR to set color decoder, I camt to 12 as 0% red push using avia and filter, but 13 as 0% using service menu to put TV in red only mode, which should I use??FWIW, my inclination would be to say that the filter is probably not as accurate as the TV's RGBS color modes, since the latter actually disables the red, green or blue guns completely. However the inaccuracies in the filters could be taken into account in AVIAs calibration scheme. So I'll be curious to hear what others with more experience using these calibration tools have to say.Also adjusting SBRT in service menu should be the same as raising brightness setting in GUI of TV should it not??AFAIK, both simply change the black level, so the net result should be the same from either. I'm not an expert on this particular feature, but the main reasons I can see for adjusting SBRT in the SM is if you need a different range of adjustment in the User Menu, or want to tweak it so that the default Brightness setting in the User Menu yields a more appropriate black level for one of your input devices. Hopefully someone else will speak up If I'm incorrect about this. SBRT is not input sensitive though. It's global.

[phatl]

So ive been working with my gray scale and i think i have it close... It suprisingly warmer than i expeected. I never realized it but i had my monitor at 9300k this whole time and when its set to 6500k it looks... well the gray scale almost has a brown tinge. So is that normal? i mean it kinda looks funny. but if that whats its meant to look like thats all i care about. ntn1 any thoughts?

[ADU]

FWIW, in the GWII FAQ, I think it says that neutral grey will look a bit sepia (ie brownish). I'm not sure I did mine exactly right, but there is a slight sepia tint to the greys on my 34xbr800. Not much though.

[NTN1]

I have abandoned this thread long enough. I hope to update the calibration doc someday.


phatl,

After cutting a lot of blue, and as long as you gray scale doesn't look reddish, purplish, or greenish, you are on the right track.

The apparent brown tinge is normal when you switch from the cold-blue 9300K to 6500K. If possible, buy a photographic gray card from a camera store, and make sure your gray is no browner than the neutral gray of the card. It will look a little warm at first, but you will get used to it. After all, it's broadcast standard, and it's the only way to get accurate reproduction of other colors.

[Alan Sh]

A few days ago I updated my adjustments at the start of this thread to include how I implemented the extremely helpful black adjustment tip by NTN1. Prior to this every time I switched between HDTV and DVD I had to change brightness by 10 clicks. Very annoying.

Thanks.

[ADU]

Sorry but I changed my mind again re the suggestion on tandem DRV/CUT adjustments. Decided to pull it until I can explain/understand what's going on a bit better. I'm just afraid this approach won't work (and will only add to the confusion) unless some of the other color settings on the TV are neutralized first. And I'm not sure this is the correct way to approach grey scales. When I get a chance maybe I'll revisit this in more detail in the Sony Signal Processing (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=293741) thread since it's more on the experimental side.

[NTN1]

The 910's geometry is never perfect, but it can pretty good if you know how to use the service menu. Attached is the HDNet pattern on my 910. It's straight on top, bottom and right sides. The left side is slightly skewed. Linearity still has flaws. Overscan is almost 0% on top, less than 2% on the right side, and 2% on the left and bottom.

Everytime I go into the service menu, the picture shifts up 4 clicks. So, after you center the picture in service menu, move it up several clicks (Mine is 4. Yours may be different.) then save. When you get out of service mode, the picture will shift down to the perfect center position.

Overscan must be adjusted for different inputs/formats. If you think your overscan is adjusted pretty good, hit Twin View on the remote, and alternately select each view (in my case, a 16x9 and a 4x3 images), you should be able to see the green border all around both twin-view images. If not, you haven't done overscan adjustments for the various TV modes. One day, I'll update my cal doc to describe this subject in more details.

[bobbobthorne]

hi, i screwed up my tv by hitting 7, 9, then enter. now its all outta wack and i've tried to get it back into shape, i got kinda close, but theres always soemthing a lil off. can a kv34xbr910 owner post all of the factory defaults for a standard 480i? or can someone point me in the right direction? fixyourowntv.com doen't have defualt values, and hte one n1n posted was nice but it was for 1080i. someone help me out.

[NTN1]

bobbobthorne,

My data actually contains 480i for certain mode.

Every TV is different. Not sure what the effect of corrupted NVM data is on the TV. Let me know exactly which mode you were in when you hit 7,9,enter such as display mode (normal, zoom, wide zoom), color temp, Edge VM on/off, etc.

I'll help you the best I can but I'll need as much info about your setting as you can remember. PM me. We'll take this off line.

[sengsational]

Originally posted by bobbobthorne
hi, i screwed up my tv by hitting 7, 9, then enter. now its all outta wack and i've tried to get it back into shape, i got kinda close, but theres always soemthing a lil off. can a kv34xbr910 owner post all of the factory defaults for a standard 480i? or can someone point me in the right direction? fixyourowntv.com doen't have defualt values, and hte one n1n posted was nice but it was for 1080i. someone help me out.

[DanielSmi]

Hey guys this is a great thread I've only read one page but I'm gonna give you two links that are both in my favorites, to look at. The first is about the correct way to fix red push which is a color decoder problem not a grayscale problem and the other has some info about adjusting stuff in the SM and has part of a Service manual that you can print out.

Must Read re: Red Push and Grayscale (cut & drive) Enthusiastic Amateur Calibrators Page (http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=57787)

AWH: SONY Service Mode (NTSC) (http://members.accessus.net/~090/awh/sonyadj.html)

The second one is based off of older Sony TVs so may not be as relavant today as it was 4-5 years ago.

Daniel Smith

[NTN1]

bobbobthorne,

Attached is my 910's original factory SM values for 1080i/480p component, memory stick, and 480i component/composite/RF. "--" means value is same as 1080i default. Also, do not overlook the hidden notes containing SM values for other settings. Just move the cursor over the data cells that have a red mark in the upper-right corner.

All 910s are unique. My data should bring your TV back in business. Additional calibration should give you a picture quality better than new.

[bobbobthorne]

thanks alot, everything is very close to perfect now. the only problem i have now is that 480p is very dark, and i'm using your default settings. in video 5, component 480p, pro, warm, full mode it is dark. when i flip the switch in the back of the dvd player to interlaced and it goes into 480i, all of the color settings are fine. which service menu adjustment should i mess with to get that right?

[SeeingWhite]

First: I just wanted to pass a word of thanks to you guys on this thread who have put so much time into sharing your experiences with calibrating the 910. You guys are really great for putting your data into spread sheets for the rest of us.

Second: I just helped my wife's grandmother purchase this TV (for $1775!) including the free matching stand. I'm looking forward to setting up the TV in their family room for them. In a month or so -- after break-in -- I will try to share my calibration results. (I wish I could have a 910 -- I've got all this technical know-how yet without all the money!! :D )

Thanks again.

[smodak]

I am really afraid to do all these service menu settings with my 34XBR910. I tried adjusting the set with Avia and I have the following questions...

I have DVE too (if that helps)

I am talking about the user menu settings unless otherwise specified.

1. My set never shows any blooming even with contrast level at 100%. So I am unable to set the contrast correctly. Any pointers?
2. Same goes for Sharpness.
3. Is it OK to watch the TV in its factory default settings (out of the box) in Standard/Movie or Pro mode (Vivid is too bright) or is it going to shorten the lifespan of the TV/cause Burn-in?
4.What is the safe level of contrast for each of the modes (about 50%)?
5. The HD picture looks OK but the SD looks horrible (with Dish 811 component and DVI) in all the modes. Any pointers to improve them? If I do the service mode calibrations (except Grey scale) mentioned in the docs above, is it going to help how the SD picture look?
6.Overall in all the modes the picture lacks shadow detail. If I turn up the brightness, the picture looks washed out.
7.Does tweaking the service menu void warranty (popular notion)?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[smodak]

Sorry to bump my own post but anybody has any answers?

[ADU]

I've never used AVIA or DVE, but have you checked out some of the remarks and other calibration links here:XBR910 FAQ (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=368718) for ideas on some of this?

[smodak]

Thank Adu,
I did check the FAQ posts before posting this thread. It is really nice and I learned a lot but I am confused after reading the posts. Nobody seems to answer the questions I asked.

[NTN1]

smodak,

1/ Blooming: There is blooming even in pro mode. If you can not recognize it, don't worry about it.

2/ Sharpness: Even with Edge VM off, there is some picture ringing effect due to edge enhancement. To learn more about edge enhancement, go here (http://www.videophile.info/Guide_EE/Page_01.htm). Follow the sharpness instructions in DVE, and turn it down if the ringing effect bothers you.

3/ Out-of-the-box: OK to watch the TV in its default settings. Avoid Vivid mode. I don't know what it takes to burn-in the 910 tube, but it should be unlikely for normal viewing. If you have to watch it in 4:3 mode all the time, then it might get burn-in after a couple of days of non-stop viewing. Just my guess.

4/ Contrast: Pro mode is safest with contrast at 50%. Standard is 75%, and is more strenuous for the tube. If you have to turn down the contrast to 50%, then you might as well use Pro mode.

5/ SD quality: many people mess with DRC. I never touched it, but I think it's in the "Advanced Video" sub menu. Calibration will improve picture quality, but not the kind of quality I think you are complaining about.

6/ Brightness: use a PLUGE pattern to set your brightness. Just follow DVE instructions. The picture will not wash out if you do it right.

7/ SM and warranty: I doubt SM tweaking would void warranty. However, before having a Sony tech look at your TV, just switch the SM parameters, that you changed, back to the original values. No big deal at all.

[smodak]

Thanks NTN1!
Just the info I was looking for!

[PatrickT]

Speaking of DRC. Has anyone published a good explaination of what the two interacting "clarity and reality" functions are actually doing? I've adjusted mine to give by sight three levels of sharpness so that I might select one to match (or mask) the noiseiness of the program material. So I've used them as a sort sharpness control.

Is there a better way or method?

[smodak]

My Dish 811 is set to output 1080i material (for SD its upconverted by 811). So XBR910 disables DRC (even on SD). I have tried feeding SD material(480i) to it using the S-Video output on 811 and adjusting DRC, never saw any visible difference though between diferrent DRC modes or custom palettes. Overall it looks the best over component output when I feed the 1080i upconverted material from 811 (and the TV disables DRC and does not do any upconversion). The same signal when I feed from 811 to the TV over DVI, it looks dark. Don't know whether that is a problem with my 811 or XBR910.
My DVD player is progressive scan (480p)and the TV disables DRC functionality for 480p too and it looks fabulous.
Except for Discovery HD, somehow I feel the DVD looks better than HD signals (HBO HD or Showtime HD).

[archiguy]

Originally posted by PatrickT
Speaking of DRC. Has anyone published a good explaination of what the two interacting "clarity and reality" functions are actually doing? ....

Excellent question, Patrick! I've pushed that little white ball all over that little graph and can see no difference whatsoever, whether it's SD content from cable, satellite, or taped via S-VHS. To me it seems completely useless.

[bobbobthorne]

i just bought DVE, and with the disc and ntn1's help i got my tv fairly close to factory specs. but now with dve. i notice that the upper left hand corner of the screen is "pulled out" farther so the geometry is off. the right hand side of the screen and the lower left is perfect. which setting adjust that upper left hand corner? i looked at ntn1's list and it doesn't seem to list an adjustment for that specific corner?? thanks in advance.

[sengsational]

Originally posted by bobbobthorne
but now with dve. i notice that the upper left hand corner of the screen is "pulled out" farther so the geometry is off.

My 910 has always had both top corners splayed out. I can see it just looking at it from across the room when I've got a 4:3 show on. I found some controls in the service menu that addressed that part of the screen, but it didn't concentrate the effect close enough to the top. The left line is straight as an arrow up the side until about 1 inch from the top. At that point, the line goes left about 1/8 or 3/16 inch. The right is similar, but it might be scant of 1/8 inch.

So if you figure this out, make sure you let us know!

--Dale--

(what's DVE?)

[ADU]

Digital Video Essentials (http://www.videoessentials.com/)

[andyross63]

Originally posted by archiguy
Excellent question, Patrick! I've pushed that little white ball all over that little graph and can see no difference whatsoever, whether it's SD content from cable, satellite, or taped via S-VHS. To me it seems completely useless.

Moving it right (Clarity) tends to soften the picture. Moving it vertical (Reality) sharpens it. It's most noticeable on a grainy picture like a weak signal. For regular Cable RF TV, I'm using 80 clarity, 20 reality, although I'm still experimenting.

Basically, it seems as if Reality is just plain old sharpness. Clarity is some form of smoother or noise reducer.

[smodak]

NTN1,
Thanks to you. Finally I gathered courage to get into service menu. I fixed the color decoder/brightness and a little geometry (mainly overscan). Man what a diferrence!

I have a problem though. Now that I have fixed the overscan and can see the entire picture. I notice a small horizontal bow on all four corners of the TV.

Its kind of like the one attached in the jpeg, only it is smaller. It is barely noticable in HD and more pronounced in a letterboxed DVD movie and DVE patterns.

Once you know it is there it is really bothering. What setting I need to change to fix it?

There is something for Vertical Bow (so far as I remember) but how to fix the horizontal bow?

Could it be due to my speakers?

Thanks for all the help!

[smodak]

Bump! Anyone? Any Answers?
Thanks

[ADU]

Did you scale the raster all the way down to 0% overscan? If so, that may be the reason you're seeing more distortion. If 0% is really what you want, there could be some other sizing controls that will give you less distortion, like ASPT for vertical sizing for example. What sizing controls did you use? And what type of video inputs do you have? Are you using a Home Theater PC?

[smodak]

I am not using HTPC.

I mainly adjusted MDVS, MDVP in the MID1 register and VSIZ, VPOS in the 2170 register. I actually tried to fix the overscan as much as possible.

That is one of my questions. How much overscan should I fix? In DVE 12/20 pattern I tried to bring the overscan down to a level where all the 4 corner circles would be visible? Is that not right?

I am using component connection with a Progressive scan DVD player.

Also, what is the difference between MDVS/MDVP vs VSIZ/VPOS (and the one you mentioned ASPT).

I am totally confused now with so many parameters correcting the same thing. What should I use?

[ADU]

There are sizing and positioning controls for all the different signal types and different aspect ratio modes. That's why there are so many, and yes they are complicated.

VSIZ (and HSIZ) seem to work sort of like master controls for the whole raster, so they may be the easiest to use, but may also tend to distort the picture more than other controls, since they're sort of the ground zero for many other geometry adjustments. HSIZ is signal sensitive, ie, can be set differently for 1080i than other signals.

ASPT creates less distortion than VSIZ, so ASPT is my personal preference between those two commands. But unlike VSIZ, ASPT is signal and aspect ratio sensitive, meaning ASPT can probably be set differently for each type of signal (480i, 480p, 1080i) and AR mode (Full, Zoom, Normal, Wide Zoom). so getting it adjusted the same for every signal and AR mode may take alot more work. And it may not fit with the paradigm for adjustments layed out in the XBR910 spreadsheets here, and hence may not be the way you'd want to go.

I believe that MID1/MDVS & MDVP could also be somewhat signal and AR sensitive too. These should also create less distortion than VSIZ & HSIZ. Not really sure how the MID1 commands should be used though. Maybe someone else can comment on that.

Welcome to the wonderful world of service menus!! :) :rolleyes:

FWIW, I think most people use between 2 - 5 % overscan. Not sure how that translates to DVE. Commands like VSIZ & HSIZ may be more or less ok for adjustments in that range.

[smodak]

Thanks for the answer ADU. That was very helpful!
BTW, what pattern do you use for overscan adjustments? I have access to both AVIA & DVE.

Tonite, I am gonna try resetting everything to the original values and then try to fix geometry/overscan again.
What should I use as pattern and how do I know it is 3% or 5%?

[ADU]

Ack. Since I'm usin an HTPC, I don't use either AVIA or DVE so I'm not sure. Someone else'll have to tell ya.

BTW, whenever you make changes to any of these sizing controls, be sure to note the signal type & aspect ratio mode so you'll have a better idea how to undo them, otherwise things can get very messy.

[andyross63]

I generally found using the MID2 group to set size/position for each mode easiest. I only have 480i sources right now. You need to set it for each input (although RF and Video1 seem to be the same), and for normal and Wide mode.

The settings in 2170D-1 and 2170D-2 are generally global, although some may be 1080i or HDI specific. HSIZ is the master width, and affects the size when you are in TwinView. Ideally, you should see the green box around all 4 sides of each window. On my TV, if I try to push it that far, I tend to get a bit of compressed linearity at the far left edge which makes the video a bit brighter there. Also be aware that messing with HSIZ and VSIZ can also mess up linearity (even spacing of the lines), which is a pain to straighten out. I wish one of the setup disks had scrolling grids, which would make linearity checking easier.

Going to 0 overscan is overkill. I have 3.5%, which is very good. Even in theaters, the actual projected picture is usually slightly larger than the reflective part of the screen.

Remember that doing geometry onscreen is worse than doing it in math! Everything tends to affect everything else. Worse, by staring at patterns, you tend to know where the problems are and it drives you nuts during normal use!!

For color, I used the settings in the large Excel file that was posted here as a rough guide. My RDRV/RCUT matched exactly. I adjusted my Green and Blue drive/cut to match the relative change he made (reduce BDRV by 9, etc..) The RYR, RYB, GYR, and GYB, even after using Avia, came out essentially the same as the spreadsheet. For Avia, in advanced color settings, use the Red color bars to set RYR and RYB, and the green bars to set GYR and GYB. They work like the common blue bars, but for red and green.

[andyross63]

Originally posted by smodak
Thanks for the answer ADU. That was very helpful!
BTW, what pattern do you use for overscan adjustments? I have access to both AVIA & DVE.

Tonite, I am gonna try resetting everything to the original values and then try to fix geometry/overscan again.
What should I use as pattern and how do I know it is 3% or 5%?

(Lets see if AVSFORUM.COM doesn't bomb out and lose my post again!!)

For Avia, which I know best:
After putting in the DVD, quickly hit Menu, then go to Advanced Avia. In the lower left is an option to have it repeat tests in a loop.

For geometry, go to the Geometry and Convergence menu, then choose Crosshatch 30IRE. Be aware that just because your edges are straight and square, your center may not be! Use a ruler or similar to check for straightness and even spacing. This is tricky. The glass is very thick, so you need to carefully look straight on as you compare each spacing.

On mine, vertical linearity (even spacing between lines) was essentially perfect, but horizontal still has issues (I have two narrow vertical bands where it's closer than it should be). Horizontal linearity is adjusted with 2170D-2/HCNT (adjusts even spacing left to right) and LANDING/SLNO adjusts center vs outside.

For screen size/position, you can find the overscan pattern in Special Tests.

When you are in the advanced menus, each pattern has a '?' next to it which will give you an explanation of what it's used for. Very helpful.

[NTN1]

smodak,

About your "horizontal" bow problem, I call it "vertical" because the distortion effect is in the vertical up-down direction, which affects the horizontal lines of a letter-boxed movie (for example).

Try to use both [2170D-1,5,VCEN] and [2170D-1,6,VPIN] to minimize the bow problem of your horizontal letter-box lines.

Many seemingly-tough geometry distortions can be alleviated by creative use of several SM parameters in combination. Make sure you try every geometry items I listed in the calibration doc to know the effect of each one, then apply them to your unique situation.

It's been a long long time since I fired up the DVE. I think there are some geometry patterns that show overscan percentage around the 39:10 time mark.

Attached is a picture of the DVE-12/20 pattern on my 910, before and after some overscan adjustments. Just ignore the room light reflection on the screen. It's an older image, but it should give you an idea of what overscan adjustments can do to your viewable picture area.

[smodak]

Thanks NTN1,
As always just the info I was looking for!
You rock!

[cuzinphil]

This is probably a stupid question but here goes. When making adjustments in the service menu (say picture size and positioning) are you only making those adjustments in whatever mode (TV, component, DVI) that you are in when you enter the service menu?

[andyross63]

It depends. It looks like the size and geometry info in 2170D-1 and 2170D-2 are universal. The same goes for the gun drive/cut settings in 2170P-1. On the other hand, the sub controls in 2103-1 and 2170P-3 seem to be input dependent. Some other controls are also picture mode (Vivid/Standard/Movie/Pro) dependent, too. The position/size info in MID2 is partially input dependent (TV/Vid1 seem to be the same), and normal/wide dependent on top of that. Not to mention 480i/480p/720p/1080i may also have individual changes, too. I currently only have 480i available, so can't fully test everything.

Basically, before making a change, switch between inputs and/or video modes and see if the value changes. If it does, then you need to make adjustments in each mode. You should repeat that after making a change and saving it (changing inputs or modes almost always resets unsaved changes.)

Don't forget that TwinView, Index and Favorites also sometimes have their own settings, too!! I wonder just how much EEPROM is in that TV!

[andyross63]

A few extra details I found on my XBR910's service menu:
MID1/MLHP and MLVP are the horizontal and vertical position of the TwinView window pair.
MID3 are various size and position settings for the video inside the RIGHT TwinView window.

[cuzinphil]

Thanks andyross63 I have read every thing in this thread and others aleast 3 times! I guess It's time to get my hands dirty and enter the service menu.

[ADU]

FWIW, although the service manuals aren't necessarily very detailed on exactly what all the different service commands do, they should indicate the signal, input, A.R., etc., sensitivies for most commands. So it's helpful to have as a guide from that POV. Maybe this is covered somewhat in the spreadsheets too.

[prismra]

I was told to post this here in the hopes of getting some expert advice...

Sony kv34sbr910 service menu questions..
Ok, I've just got this wonderful television and I have some rather noobish questions.

I've spent days adjusting the basic user settings, picture, color, brightness, etc and today I dove headfirst into the service menu. I have some questions about it.

I wanted to get rid of most of the overscan so the pattern in DVE (you know, the one with the 4 whit circles) was properly displayed and also to have a perfect 16X9 window in the THX optimizer video test. I have my DVD player connected to Vid5 with a component cable with prog. scan enabled. When I go into the service menu while on this input, It says 480p, vid 5, normal, full, it all looks right.

I change the values in MID1

DHPH, DVPH, MDHS, MDVS

until everything is just how I like it (with little overscan.) I save the settings using mute + enter. It says write and then I go ahead and turn off the TV. DVDs now look awesome and the DVE DVD menu finally looks pretty much perfect.

Then a few hours after watching Master and Commander DVD (which is a cool movie BTW) I plugged in my PS2. This is connected to the video 6 input with a component cable. Now when it displays PS2 games, it no longer fills the screen completely like it did before I changed the settings. It look like it has been made smaller and shifted around a bit. I thought that the service mode adjustments I made were input dependent (as labled on the 34xbr910 service menu v3 spreadsheet.) I also noticed that when in the service menu, if I switch between the vid 5 (DVD), vid 6 (ps2) and vid 1 (I think I have my sat on vid1) the values for the above registers is the same (eg the value I set it to is now default across all inputs.)

TV and DVDs look fine but it's just the ps2 (vid5) that now doesn't fill the screen properly in ANY mode (full, zoom, wide zoom etc.) The PS2 obviously is outputting a 480i signal unless the game supports 16:9 and or prog scan mode.

Can someone please explain to me what went wrong?

Thanks in advance.

[andyross63]

Try using the entries in MID2. These settings are both input and mode (standard/wide) dependent.

[NorthJersey]

Originally posted by Alan Sh
Adjusting black levels in the SM
As pointed out by NTN1 a global black adjustment can be made with 2170P-1 SRBT. User black adjustment for a specific signal(i.e.1080i) can be made with 2170P-3 UBOF.
I adjusted my DVD player black level in the user menu and did not make a global adjustment. I then increased UBOF from 1 to 6 on a 1080i signal.
This means that I no longer have to adjust brightness every time that I switch signals. So far that has worked for my Samsung T165, JVC 30K, and two Pioneer 5100HD cable modems. It is my guess that an increase of 1 in UBOF is equivalent to an increase of 2 in the user menu. [/B]

Will this fix (1) work on the 34HS510, and (2) improve black levels over DVI ?

[ADU]

AFAIK, SBRT & UBOF should work the same on the 34HS510 as on the XBR910.

All these commands do though is offset Brightness (ie black level). You can get the same effect by simply raising or lowering Brightness in the User Menu. AFAIK, they don't really have anything to do with black "enhancement" or "retention".

Here are a couple possible reasons for using these commands. SBRT can be used to normalize the Brightness in the User Menu, so the default setting (or 50%) gives the correct black level for a specific video source. It can also be used to shift the range of adjustment for Brightness in the User Menu, if proper blacks can't be achieved with the existing range (which is probably unlikely unless you've done alot of other tinkering). UBOF can be used to tweak the Brightness (aka black level) for each input, signal and picture mode so they're more uniform (so you don't have to keep fiddling with Brightness in the User Menu each time you switch sources).

For some other ideas on adjusting blacks and gamma on the HS510, please see Post #5 here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3726573#post3726573).

[NorthJersey]

thanks, ADU, from the looks of it, you must be a professional calibrator. I will be buying one of the new DVD players that upscale over DVI/HDMI, but I've read many posts from people who seem to say that connections over DVI overall seem to be darker than component. I use pro mode for my hd cable box and component dvd player (like the look of that setting as is). I did make the red push tweaks (and others) in the tv setup that were posted for the hs510, and did notice an improvement after doing so. Just wondering if other menu tweaks should be made to improve PQ over DVI.

I will keep these in mind, thanks

[ADU]

Thx for the compliment, NJ. I do have a background in imaging, but no real training with video technology. So you should take whatever I have to say with a grain of salt.

FWIW, I saw no difference in the darkness of the picture via DVI on my 34XBR800. That could depend alot on the source/provider though. Another factor could be the black level of the source. 0IRE seems to be pretty standard for DVI, while 7.5IRE (the old NTSC broadcast standard) is still very common for analog video. So Brightness may have to be adjusted to compensate. The other major difference I noticed on my TV was Color saturation. Color needed to be set about 5 ticks higher for DVI to acheive the same saturation as my component input. If you don't have a way of calibrating the DVI input directly, these tweaks may help. But calibrating for DVI (and component, if you're using both) is probably best.

On a side note, the default configurations in the User Menu actually seemed to work better for DVI than analog inputs.

[NorthJersey]

well, I have the 34HS510, which is basically a rebadged 34xbr800. When you say the default configurations in the user menu, are you referring to pro, standard, movie ? I doubt you're referring to vivid

[ptroiano]

Default for 1080i.

I used NTN1's sheet 34xbr910 calibration.zip fron the beginning post in this thread and was adjusting the overscan for the 1080i input first.

[ADU]

When you say the default configurations in the user menu, are you referring to pro, standard, movie ? I doubt you're referring to vividI'm referring to all the picture modes. All I mean is that the default out-of-box configurations of the different picture modes in the User Menu seemed to work better overall for DVI than for analog inputs on my 34XBR800. Other users mileage may vary though. And this did not deter me from making massive changes everywhere. :)

[ptroiano]

Help Please.

I have totally lost the ability to switch between normal/full/zoom/wide zoom modes on my sony xbr910.

I fixed my XBR910 for 1080i overscan last night by adjusting MID1 8-11 in the service menu. Prior to that I had stepped through all of the items and recorded their default values. In an effort to help pinpoint the problem the following is the sequence of events as best I can remember.

On one of my first runs though the registers to record the default values I hit "9" by mistake and was not sure the consequences so exited without saving changes

Later while looking to see what the affects of adjusting VPOS/VSIZ in 2170D-1 were I had inadvertently hit "2" instead of "1" and discovered this after trying to go back to VPOS with "4" and found that I had jumped categories instead of menu items. Not knowing what I may have changed at this point in time I reset the factory defaults with "8"-enter and restarted.

It was after this when I noticed that I could no longer change the mode. It is stuck in full on all inputs.

I have looked through all registers and I can't see any changes other than the changes to MID1 8-11.

Help, I will be very grateful for any suggestions!

Thanks,
ptroiano

[NTN1]

ptroiano,

I assume you know that if you feed your TV with 1080i HD signal, it would lock itself in Full mode. In the event that your TV is still stuck in Full mode even with 480i/480p SD signal, then try the following:

1/ Check your remote control. Remove the batteries for 15 minutes or more, then try fresh batteries if you have them. Make sure no button is stuck. See if you can change the display zoom mode through the buttons on the TV's front panel. The idea is to rule out the remote control as the problem.

2/ If #1 doesn't work, go through the service menu for all different input types (components, composite, RF, S-video, mem stick) and picture modes (vivid,normal, movie, pro), and make sure all SM items are set back to the original out-of-the-box values. I know you checked the values of at least one setting, you should reset other settings too. You may not have recorded everything, just do the best you can. FYI, somewhere in this thread, I published my original values. Even mine is not complete for all different signal-types/inputs/picture-modes.

3/ If #2 doesn't work, turn off the TV, unplug it. You'll have to physically remove the AC plug from the wall outlet. Let it sit for at least 15 minutes. I would leave it unplugged overnight.

4/ If #3 doesn't work, cycle through the service menu again to make sure nothing has changed since step #2. If something has changed, pm me. Otherwise, call Sony tech, and don't ever mention your service menu experiments.

Good luck!

[digitaldean]

I have a 32HS510 and I have some gemotry issues. THis looks like the place to be to get them answered. You guys are AWESOME. Ok enough brown nosing. Here is my problem.


I have noticed that when I am playing a letterboxed DVD or watching a show that is letterboxed, the image is slanting downwards on the top left and top right edges. The bottom looks great. So basically, the black bar above a letterboxed video is starting to very slight slant down into the video on the top left and right edges of the tv.

My wife cannot notice it, but it is all I see.



So can I adjust the top right and top left of my image? What are the settings in the service menu to fix this? Is it VCEN, PPHA, VPIN? I just want to make sure I do the right thing. I am so desperate, someone help me please?

[digitaldean]

Ok, well I did a few tweaks in the Service Menu tonight, and I did make some head way. But I still have the slant at the top right corner of my screen.


It is only obvious on letterboxed movies. You can see the very top right corner of a letterboxed image start to slant down about 1 inch from the right edge of the screen at the top of your letterboxed image.


All I need, and it sounds so simple, is to just grab that top right corner of my video and pull it up "a few notches."

I messed around with all of the geometry settings in my CPU and I still could not find anything that allows you to straighten lines that run horizontal (right to left or left to right). Meaning, the top of a letterboxed image is straight until the very edges of a screen, then dips down ever so slightly.

I am beggin, help a brother out fellas.

Thanks for all of your help.

[sengsational]

I don't know what you call it, but when I watch a 4:3 show on my 910 I get a wider picture at the top, like this. (http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/r/drseng/DVI/topOut.jpg) I added the yellow lines - they are to reference the true vertical. See how the distance between the yellow line and the black area is wider at the very top?

I wondered if there were any specific service menu settings that effect only the top one-inch of the screen.

--Dale--

[Hammerli]

Originally posted by sengsational
I don't know what you call it, but when I watch a 4:3 show on my 910 I get a wider picture at the top, like this. (http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/r/drseng/DVI/topOut.jpg) I added the yellow lines - they are to reference the true vertical. See how the distance between the yellow line and the black area is wider at the very top?

I wondered if there were any specific service menu settings that effect only the top one-inch of the screen.

--Dale--

Do you have the same distortion at the bottom? It is referred to as barrel distortion, which is the opposite of pincushion distortion. If indeed the distortion is symetrical about the center of the screen, I believe that you can fix that. I don't pick my 910 up till tomorrow, so I don't have the service settings that might help you, sorry.

[NTN1]

digitaldean,

You may not like my answer. Sometimes, it's impossible to get a line straight. There is no SM item that will "pull up" one end of a horizontal line. In your case, I feel a compromise is best. For example, if the top line goes down 1/4" in a corner, then make the top go down 1/8", and the bottom go up 1/8". The idea is to distribute the problem to other areas, making it less noticeable overall.


sengsational,

try 2170D-2,7,UCP.

[digitaldean]

I dont see how making the bottom go up is going to distribute the problem. Then I am going to be annoyed by the imperfection at the bottom of my screen too.


I have tweaked the problem a bit and it is looking a little better.


Can you explain how distributing the problem works? Is it basically and illusion on your eyes?


Thanks for your help brother.

[andyross63]

Originally posted by sengsational
I don't know what you call it, but when I watch a 4:3 show on my 910 I get a wider picture at the top, like this. (http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/r/drseng/DVI/topOut.jpg) I added the yellow lines - they are to reference the true vertical. See how the distance between the yellow line and the black area is wider at the very top?

I wondered if there were any specific service menu settings that effect only the top one-inch of the screen.

--Dale--

With a grid pattern on-screen from Avia or DVE, check ALL the lines. Don't make adjustments just for the edges/corners. I originally did that, and the middle of the picture had some pincushion/barrel distortion. Once I corrected for that, I had a much better picture.

I think this rough sequence will work. You'll probably have to go back and forth through all of them a few times as there is alot of interaction between settings:

Tweak convergence first, as that can slighly affect geometry. Be aware that 4:3, wide modes, and 1080i have separate convergence settings.

Use the center horizontal line to adjust rotation (21070D-1/NSCO). Make certain user menu rotation is set to 0 first!

Use the center vertical line to adjust skew/angle (2170D-2/VANG or LANG).

If the top/bottom are not parallel, use 2170D-1/HTPZ (horizontal trapezoid)

If the sides are not parallel, us 2170D-2/PPHA.

Check the vertical lines close to the center, working out. If the bow slowly increases one way or the other, and is similar both sides (bowing toward center or toward outside), use 2170D-2/MPIN (overall effect) and PIN (mostly affects sides).

If vertical lines all bow the same direction, use 2170D-2/VBOW and LBOW.

If vertical lines are not evenly spaced, use 2170D-2/SLIN (center/outside) and HCNT (left/right).

2170D-2/UCP and LCP adjust pincushion (vertical lines bending) near the upper or lower sides.

Bowing on horizontal lines can be adjusted with 2170D-1/VCEN and VPIN.

You can use 2170D-1/VSIZ and VPOS to adjust vertical size/position. 2170D-2/HSIZ and HPOS for horizontal. Having the overscan pattern on-screen works best. Don't overdo it. You can run into problems if you try to go less than 2.5-3%. My TV has a bit of compression (most visible as a slight brightening) at the extreme left edge if I adjust width to see the green border on both Twinview windows. (I should mention Twinview mode has separate HPOS/VPOS settings, and also has another set in MID1/MLHP and MLVP.) Also make certain that all user menu size/position are set to 0! Remember that you can adjust vertical size/position for wide modes in the user menus, too.

On top of that, there are settings in MID1, MID2, and MID3 for setting size/position for different inputs and video (480i/480p/1080i) modes. That's enough for a whole new post.

If somebody sees something wrong with the above, please post.

My 910 has pretty good with horizontal lines, after fixing rotation. Just a few minor tweaks. Vertical lines took more work and still have linearity issues.

[sengsational]

Thanks for the pointers. I don't have any grid tools, and I'm not sure it would work anyway. What I'm looking at is a 1080i signal through the component inputs from an HD tuner board in a PC. So I'm not sure how I would be able to use a tool like that, really. Does the tool come with transport stream files on a DVD-rom? That might work.

--Dale--

[digitaldean]

ANDYROSS>>>



THat is an awesome post! Great Information. I was thinking about doing that myself, but It was a little too much work for me right now.


This is the information that I needed about a week ago, and nobody could help me for my HS510. I decided to get into it myself and just screw around with the settings, so I figured basically everything out on my own.


But that is basically what you need to know to correct geometry. I just wanted to add or agree that adjusting the "rotation" of the screen towards you and away from you is the most important place to start. Because if that is not correct, it throws off every other setting and is nearly impossible to get everthing straight after that.

[sengsational]

digitaldean,

What tool did you use to generate your grid pattern? Did you generate a grid at 1080i?

--Dale--

[Kid A]

Hi all. I'm still having issues with my 910 and Denon 1600. It's still red as hell. Should I adjust any levels on my player before attempting to adjust any setting on my TV? It's getting annoying. Any help would be appreciated.

Also...do the majority of you use two modes on your TV for day/night viewing?

[Taisin]

Hello guys:
I see many owners calibrating their sets' color temp at 6500K.
Since I watched mostly analog as well as digital cable tvs, should I
do 5400K instead?
Incidentally, the spread sheet was excellent.
Taisin

[Taisin]

OK.
My apology.
The 5400K is for films.
So, should I therefore watch DVDs at 5400K and cable at 6500K?
The vertical Gray Ramp is definitely brownish on the "warm" mode on my set. "Netural" appears as more gray.

[Waterbug]

What set is that you own?

Maybe the warm mode appears "warm" instead of Neutral 6500k....

Maybe Neutral is closer to 6500k hence, making it appear more accurate...
I think you should watch any video sources at 6500k because that is the way is intended to be view. That includes, DVD, VCR, videogames...

not sure about 5400k for film...

[santodx5]

Can someone help me? I messed up my color badly.Here is the post that i made:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=404929

Plz check it out

It would be great if someone know what is wrong? I've been trying to find the reason.

Thanks a lot,

[Taisin]

Thanks for the reply, waterbug.
My set is 32HS510.
Yes I agree 6500K is the right thing to do.
As I don't have the right color temp computer monitor to compare to, do you know any reasonable alternative devise that I could use for eyeballing.

[andyross63]

Just a note that I updated the Excel spreadsheet that NTN1 posted a few months ago. It contains updates I've collected from various sources and my own experimenting.

It's attached, or you can download it here:
http://home.att.net/~andyross/XBR910_Service_Menu.ZIP

Much of what is in there also covers the HS510 series.

[Omen]

andyross63,

Thanks for updating the spreadsheet. I'm getting ready to do some tweaks on my 34XBR910, so it's great to have more information.

[smodak]

Originally posted by andyross63
Just a note that I updated the Excel spreadsheet that NTN1 posted a few months ago. It contains updates I've collected from various sources and my own experimenting.

It's attached, or you can download it here:
http://home.att.net/~andyross/XBR910_Service_Menu.ZIP

Much of what is in there also covers the HS510 series.

Great Job Andy! Thanks! I have just one question. How do you guys find out all these info?

[billmail1]

Andy,

I have a question. I was trying your spreadsheet last night but could not make the changes in the MID5 registers correctly. After I made the adjustments indicated in the Default 1080i column, I tried to make the same MID5 adjustments in the 480p (480i) column but they kept changing the 1080i settings. I was saving each change as I went along but it was still over-writing the 1080i numbers. Am I doing something wrong? Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks!!

[Mark Hoepfl]

I noticed a strange thing with the Asia Pacific version of this set (it is super fine pitch but service menu and user menu are different than the US version).

I have tried this with 2 DVD players. 1 player is the Samsung HD1000 that upscales DVDs to 1080i and another the Philips Q50 which outputs 480p.

On both DVD players, when watching a DVD with 2:35 etc. aspect ratio (black bands on top and bottom of the picture), at the top of the picture about 3 milimeters down from the start of the picture is a thin grey horizontal line which runs all the way across. Also, at the bottom of the picture about 3 millimeters up from the bottom of the picture is a thin grey horizontal line which also runs all the way across.

Now when I play a HD movie on my JVC DVHS deck, there is no lines at all!

All players above are using component cable (different component cable in different component inputs on TV).

Any idea why this is happening?

Does anyone else see this? It's not that noticable at all but just wondering how to fix/caused?

[Omen]

Mark,

I see the same thin grey lines on my 34XBR910. I thought I read in a thread that there's a service menu adjustment that may reduce or eliminate those lines, but I can't remember where I saw it. Suffice it to say that they really didn't bother me, so I didn't pursue the fix any further.

[andyross63]

Originally posted by billmail1
Andy,

I have a question. I was trying your spreadsheet last night but could not make the changes in the MID5 registers correctly. After I made the adjustments indicated in the Default 1080i column, I tried to make the same MID5 adjustments in the 480p (480i) column but they kept changing the 1080i settings. I was saving each change as I went along but it was still over-writing the 1080i numbers. Am I doing something wrong? Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks!!

MID5? I don't have much info about that section. The Service Manual just shows tables where POP values of 0 - 56 set the values of settings 1-18 in MID5. I'm guessing POP is set by something else depending on the mode.

Values 19-36 are only listed as having something to do with Memory Stick.

[billmail1]

Thanks Andy. Makes more sense now. I just kept the numbers in MID5 at the values indicated on the spreadsheet. Haven't seen any changes one way or the other so I guess it's OK.

Thanks again!!

[Cjplay]

Originally posted by jayfsee007
Thanks for the info NTN1. You seem pretty knowledgeable and I'm wondering if you could give me your opinion on another 34XBR910 issue.

I have my 34XBTR910 hooked up to a Denon DVD-1600 through component progressive scan.

On films with an aspect ratio of 2.35 : 1, the TV will of course display small black letter box bars.
On this TV, the first one or two lines of pixels after the black bars is lighter in color than the rest of the picture.
The effect is is almost as if someone has drawn a light colored line dividing the black bar and the picture.

Here are my questions;

Is this something to do with overscanning or underscanning?
Is it something an ISF Tecnicial could fix in the service menu?

Your opinion would be greatly appreciated.

To answer your question(s), no they are not. As a compressionist in the industry of DVD's I can tell you that those lines are on the master more often than not due to certain mastering techniques not being "up to snuff". Blame the content on this one.

CJPlay

[hollismb]

I've played with it a little bit, but need some guidence on the following settings, and have seen a few difference reports. What are you guys setting (2170P-4
) GAMM and BLK to? Same for (2103-1) ATPD.

Right now, I'm at 0,0,0 in movie mode, respectively, but I've also seen 2,3,3 as someone else's settings. Any suggestions? Seems to be consistent amongst all the HS models.

[hollismb]

Okay then....

I've found that 0 GAMM, 0 BLK, and 0 ATPD seem to give the picture the right amount of depth, without being overly bright, or overly black in the shadows. On some settings, you could actually completely destroy shadow detail. Sure, it looked great, until you realize that someone shading thier eyes with their hand doesn't create an entirely black shadow (Blue Crush, chapter 1).

I'd read in another thread that GAMM 2, BLK 1, ATPD 3 (or 0) was ideal, but I just found that to be entirely too bright in the white areas and midtones. Way too much apparent contrast.

ALl that being said, when you adjust GAMM and BLK to mess with blacks, changin the number isn't consistent. For example, if you start GAMM at 0, then go to 2, then back down to 0, it's completely not the same as it was at 0 before. Same goes with the BLK register. It's almost as if it's checking the direction of the change, as well as the number.

Also, as I've seen mentioned elsewhere, there's actually an obvious change if you're on either the top or bottom of the scale in GAMM or BLK and you press once again in that direction. For example, going from 1 to 0, you can hit '6' again, and while the setting still reads 0, it actually changes one more time.

Now, if someone could tell me what the default GAMM and BLK settings were for movie mode, that'd be great. I had initially played around in PRO mode, and didn't realize that was a picture mode specific change when I adjusted them in movie mode as well. Somebody want to look it up in their menu?

[andyross63]

2170P-4/GAMM and BLK are not quite normal settings. They affect many other settings. They also depend on the picture mode (Vivid, Standard, Movie, Pro), and the input (RF, V1-V4, V5-V6, DVI, MemStick still, MS movie, MS menu, twinview). For V5/6/DVI, it also depends on the video format (480i, 480p, 1080i, 720p, VGA [DVI only]). 2103-1/ATPD also depends on the BLK mode setting.

GAMM affects 2170P-4/GAMS, GAMR, GAMG, and GAMB. Each GAMM setting (0-3) bring up a different set of GAMx numbers.

BLK affects 2170P-4/DCTR, APED, DSBO, ABLM and DPSQ, along with 2103-1/ATPD.

You should use something like Avia's gamma chart to verify. On my XBR910, Gamma is fine as is in Pro Mode, which sets everything to 0.

[Taisin]

Hello Andy:

I tweaked my gray scale in pro-mode "Warm" with 480i component input.
Do u know if the DRVs and Cuts in 2170P-4 are universal settings or mode/input dependent. Should I stay in Warm when watching non-DVD
sources like cables?

Many Thanks

[JBThompson]

I am attempting to correct the (16:9) overscan on my 34XBR910 for both 480P and 1080I separately. The input signals are from a 480P DVD on Video 6 (component) and, from 480P and 1080I HDTivo signals on Video 7 (HDMI/DVI). The test patterns come from DVE on DVD (video 6) and the HDNet 8AM Tuesday morning test pattern (video 7). I have the HDNet patterns captured on my HDTivo and then use the up-arrow on the HDTivo to switch between 480P output and 1080I output. The display in the service menu mode reflect these inputs. The picture is set to "FULL" for all three pattern displays.

I have been able to successfully adjust the 480P overscan to between 2% and 4% (top-to-bottom and left-to-right) for both Video 6 and video 7. I have had no luck with the 1080I. It is "stuck" between 10% and 14% horizonally. I can find no service menu item that controls the "in window" position and size for this 1080I/DVI pattern. In fact the only menu items that affect this pattern is the 2170D-1 VPOS and VSIZ and 2170D-2 HPOS and HSIZ. But, this affects the two 480P patterns too, apparently a universal window control.

None of the MIDx items I have tried that appear to relate to position and size (POS and SIZ) affect the 1080I pattern, only the 480P pattern on both inputs. And, I think that I have tried them all. Help?

[Taisin]

Can anyone tell me what all these "sub"s are about, eg: the difference between Bright vs Sub-Bright;
Contrast vs Sub-contrst. A rather elementary question I suppose but I seriously don't know.
Thanks

[andyross63]

Originally posted by Taisin
tweaked my gray scale in pro-mode "Warm" with 480i component input.
Do u know if the DRVs and Cuts in 2170P-4 are universal settings or mode/input dependent. Should I stay in Warm when watching non-DVD
sources like cables?

The main DRV/CUT entries in 2170P-1 are universal. YOF, CBOF and CROF (offsets?) do vary depending on the input and video format. The settings for SBOF, RDOF, GDOF, BDOF, RCOF, GCOF, and BCOF depend on the temperature selected.

[andyross63]

Originally posted by JBThompson
None of the MIDx items I have tried that appear to relate to position and size (POS and SIZ) affect the 1080I pattern, only the 480P pattern on both inputs. And, I think that I have tried them all. Help?

MID3/VDHP, VDHS, VDVE and VDVS should adjust the video inside your main window (as set by VSIZ/HSIZ and similar) for 480p/720p/1080i. From the info I have, it's only video type, not the input, that selects which numbers to use.

[andyross63]

Originally posted by Taisin
Can anyone tell me what all these "sub"s are about, eg: the difference between Bright vs Sub-Bright;
Contrast vs Sub-contrst. A rather elementary question I suppose but I seriously don't know.
Sub entries are a way of adjusting the available range. A common way of using it is to set the TV to it's default user settings, then adjust the subs to desired settings. This way, you can also just reset the user settings to get back to a desired default. The most common would be to increase brightness (black level), descrease contrast (white level), and decrease sharpness.

[Taisin]

Hi Andy:
Thanks for clarifying the items to me. You truly know your stuff well.
Believe other readers would benefit as well.
Much obliged.

[Martyboy42]

I don't know if this is anywhere in the thread, but when I had my 910 calibrated professionally, the guy made one of the temperature settings actually optimized for black and white, since I watch a lot of old movies. And it makes a real difference! I don't know what he did, but the films have a little aged look to them, a bit yellowish, but it looks much better than the usual black and white.

[andyross63]

He probably set that setting for a 5400K (I think) color setting. Much warmer than the 6500K used for standard NTSC.

[1212patatepoil]

Hi,

First, I'd like to thank everybody who posted very useful info about the 910 on this thread.

I borrowed a color analyzer from work and proceeded to adjust the grayscale of my 910.

I set the set to Pro, warm before I started.

I tweaked my RCUT, BCUT and RDRV and BDRV values until I had close to 6500K accross the entire IRE range.

Later, by coincidence, while my brightness was maxed out (don't ask), I changed from Warm to Neutral.

I noticed that the blacks in WARM mode are BLUER than "neutral" or "cool".
Moreover, the user menu is a lot more blue in warm than "neutral" or "cool"

I compared the values between all 3 modes for all the 2170P-1 registers and can't explain why "warm" is so blue in the blacks.

Did I muck something up?

Could anybody confirm this on their sets? Try to turn the brightness all the way to the max, switch to "normal" mode to get nice black bars on each side then flip between "warm" and "neutral".

Besides entries in the 2170P-1 registers, what other entries affect color balance?

Thanks!

-- Patate

[G.B.]

If I remember right gain is the light- bright side of your gray scale adjust & drive is setting your darker near black gray scale. You might ask UMR he will know. The other designation is gain & bias for dark areas....

[andyross63]

Originally posted by 1212patatepoil
I tweaked my RCUT, BCUT and RDRV and BDRV values until I had close to 6500K accross the entire IRE range.
-- Patate

I've always read that you should not adjust RCUT/RDRV, but instead only adjust blue and green. Only adjust red if adjusting the other two isn't enough.

[1212patatepoil]

I've always read that you should not adjust RCUT/RDRV, but instead only adjust blue and green. Only adjust red if adjusting the other two isn't enough.

I thought it was best just to play with RED/BLUE because GREEN affects the perceived brightness/contrast too much.

Why shouldn't we play with RED?

Anyways, it doesn't really matter, as long as you play with 2, not 3, controls. This avoids "chasing your tail".

BTW, I just ended up calibrating "NEUTRAL", this gave me better results than calibrating "WARM". My "COOL" is now slightly cooler than "NEUTRAL" and "WARM" was sacrificed... it is now way too warm (except in the deep shadows...).

So... anybody wants to check their sets (even if the grayscale wasn't calibrated)? Crank up brightness to the max, make sure you have pure black somewhere on the screen (switch to 4:3 normal mode), flip between 3 temperature modes. Does WARM have bluer blacks than NORMAL and COOL?

-- Patate

[ADU]

Patate, the following is just conjecture... but since the different Temps appear to be configured by offsets in the grey scale (2170P_1/SBOF, RDOF, GDOF, BDOF, RCOF, GCOF, BCOF), probably only one can be configured correctly. So it doesn't surprise me that the Warm Temp still has blueish blacks after the grey scale is configured for the Neutral Temp. None of the temperatures appeared to have accurate grey scales to begin with on my TV... probably something to do with Sony's signature color paradigm. Neutral seemed the logical choice in my case, because it had no offsets like the other Temps, and it seemed as though that would simplify the grey scale adjustments. I also did as the other poster suggested and configured the Red DRV/CUT first (setting them to 31), then green, and then blue. That proved to be the easiest with the system (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3490274#post3490274) I worked out. Before any of this though, I first configured the Color Decoders. Can't promise any of this will work for others though.

[mr_shinn]

Which one of these attachments has the proper numbers to properly adjust the 910? Did someone adjust their 910 to near perfection and then post the numbers so everyone else can use them?

[sengsational]

Originally posted by mr_shinn
Which one of these attachments has the proper numbers to properly adjust the 910? Did someone adjust their 910 to near perfection and then post the numbers so everyone else can use them?
Every TV is different. Tastes are different. After the set is burned-in it's different than fresh out of the box. Thus, I don't think there exists a single set of values that's near perfect for everyone.

--Dale--

[mr_shinn]

Ok, i've decided to try calibrating my 910 after getting a quote from a well known calibrator in SF for arond $485..anyway, which items in the service menu are adjusted to fix over scan? Is it HSIZ(H-SIZE) and/or VSIZ(V-SIZE)??

[sengsational]

Originally posted by mr_shinn
Ok, i've decided to try calibrating my 910 after getting a quote from a well known calibrator in SF for arond $485..anyway, which items in the service menu are adjusted to fix over scan? Is it HSIZ(H-SIZE) and/or VSIZ(V-SIZE)??
There are very many settings that control the size geometry because there are many display modes and many inputs. You can't go by the name, really. My philosophy is to send the "right" signal to the TV so that you don't need to monkey with the size in the service menu (resolution within a resolution). The problem with selecting a calibrator is that they may not be familiar with the PC, and if not, that could throw them for a loop. If they are familiar with the PC, then you should get a quote for setting up your computer desktop resolution too!

--Dale--

[mr_shinn]

OK, after making some geometry adjustments using DVE and my momitsu 720p dvd player, I was able to reduce overscan to a minimal factor. But overscan is still present on my PC! It seems to have something to do with the resolution. I tried both 720p and 1080i resolutions but nothing seems to get rid of it. It isn't the TV because if I reduce the HPOS or HSIZE anymore, there will be underscan so i've ruled out that possibility. So I guess I need power strip to create myown custom timing. Oh BTW there seems to be a lot of "flickering" when ever I trie to use 1920x1080i. Is there a way to reduce flicker in windows with that resolution? I'm using an ATI radeon X800XT with the latest Catalysts and the new Control Center. TIA

[ADU]

Does 720p flicker? If you're using the ATI HDTV component adapter, isn't there something like a 1000i mode (instead of 1080i) that should eliminate the overscan?

[tennberg]

Does anyone know if the 910 service menu has the following setting:

"Complete V-PIN and V-CEN adjustments first and adjust HPTZ to straighten and parallel top and bottom lines"

?

Basically, is there an HPTZ adjustment on the 910? The line above is from the 960 service manual, and I wanted to know if the 910 had this same option. It seems that this option on the 960 allows you to straighten horizontal (?) lines.

[andyross63]

Originally posted by tennberg
Basically, is there an HPTZ adjustment on the 910? The line above is from the 960 service manual, and I wanted to know if the 910 had this same option. It seems that this option on the 960 allows you to straighten horizontal (?) lines.
I think you mean HTPZ (Horizontal Trapezoid?) It's in the 2170D-1 menu and is on the XBR910 and HS420/510 series.

[fubarduck]

Originally posted by Alan Sh

To set NORMAL I used the fact that the picture should be 22.2 inches wide and used the MID1 settings above. For NORMAL this creates the size and position of the 4:3 window but does not correct overscan within the window. To do this I put the DVE title 12 chapter 17 1.33 overscan pattern up and used the following registers:
MID3 0 VDHP horizontal position
MID3 1 VDHS horizontal size
MID3 3 VDVS vertical size
I tried adjusting these registers on my TV to fix a horizontal stretch on one of my inputs. I only want to adjust the horizontal size and position in my "Normal" 4:3 window for VIDEO 6. However, these settings seem to adjust ALL video inputs.

Does anyone know what registers I could change if I wanted only Video 6 corrected? Thanks!

[andyross63]

Originally posted by fubarduck
I tried adjusting these registers on my TV to fix a horizontal stretch on one of my inputs. I only want to adjust the horizontal size and position in my "Normal" 4:3 window for VIDEO 6. However, these settings seem to adjust ALL video inputs.

Does anyone know what registers I could change if I wanted only Video 6 corrected? Thanks!

Be aware that Vid5 and 6 share settings, and in many cases, that is also shared with Vid7 (DVI/HDMI).

For the actual 'window' in 4:3 mode, you adjust MID1/MDHP, MDVP, MDHS, MDVS. This adjusts where the actual scanning takes place. Adjust it so that the width is 1.3 times the height. Use a ruler or tape measure and a calculator. Be aware that if you make adjustments in 2170D-1 (vertical) or 2170D-2 (horizontal), you may need to retweak the MID1 settings. You can make it wider than 1.3:1 (4:3), but you will then need to adjust overscan so that there is less horizontal than vertical to keep the aspect ratio even.

For the video seen inside that window, you use MID2 settings for 480i signals. There are settings for RF+V1-V4, and another for Vid 5-7. There are also separate settings for TwinView modes, Zoom modes, freeze frame, index, favorites. If you try to adjust DRHS too small, the picture will lose sync. I try to keep the vertical size at the default 120 for single screen modes, as I think changing that causes the TV to add or delete scan lines, not actually adjust the beam scanning (which is done by VSIZ).

For 480p/720p/1080i, use MID3/VIDHP,VDHS,VDVE,VDVS.

On widescreen CRT models, some of the 2170D-2 settings (HSIZ, SLIN, MPIN, PIN, PINO, UCP, LCP, PPHA) are separate for WideZoom (non-linear stretch) mode.

On my 30XBR910, I've been able to adjust it to 3% overscan. If I try to set HSIZ lower to get it down to 2.5%, I start to get a bit of compression on the very far left, which shows up as a slight increase in brightness at the extreme left edge.

[fubarduck]

Originally posted by andyross63
Be aware that Vid5 and 6 share settings, and in many cases, that is also shared with Vid7 (DVI/HDMI).

For the actual 'window' in 4:3 mode, you adjust MID1/MDHP, MDVP, MDHS, MDVS. This adjusts where the actual scanning takes place. Adjust it so that the width is 1.3 times the height. Use a ruler or tape measure and a calculator. Be aware that if you make adjustments in 2170D-1 (vertical) or 2170D-2 (horizontal), you may need to retweak the MID1 settings. You can make it wider than 1.3:1 (4:3), but you will then need to adjust overscan so that there is less horizontal than vertical to keep the aspect ratio even.

For the video seen inside that window, you use MID2 settings for 480i signals. There are settings for RF+V1-V4, and another for Vid 5-7. There are also separate settings for TwinView modes, Zoom modes, freeze frame, index, favorites. If you try to adjust DRHS too small, the picture will lose sync. I try to keep the vertical size at the default 120 for single screen modes, as I think changing that causes the TV to add or delete scan lines, not actually adjust the beam scanning (which is done by VSIZ).

For 480p/720p/1080i, use MID3/VIDHP,VDHS,VDVE,VDVS.

Sorry, but I'm trying to adjust my VIDEO 6 for a source that is actually sent to my HDTV incorrectly. It is an X-Box game which is impossible to correct from the system itself (it's a glitch). The X-Box sends the signal on this particular game WAYYY overly stretched. Therefore, I wanted to adjust it so that if I plugged my X-Box into VIDEO 6, the stretching would be corrected, but in VIDEO 5, there would be no change. If ALL of the horizontal size and horizontal position settings are universal for VIDEO 5 and VIDEO 6, then there is no way for me to fix this game, because I run a ton of stuff on VIDEO 5 in Progressive Scan, and all of my 480p material on VIDEO 5 will be squished if I make the corrections to VIDEO 6 with the MID3 VDHP and VDHS registers.

Please let me know if it is possible to correct this problem on my 30XBR910.

[andyross63]

Is it stretched horizontally or vertically? Why not just play that one troublesome game using the S-Video or composite inputs on V1-V4? I'd probably complain the game company for not writing the game to properly play in HD. I don't konw much about the X-Box, but is HD and/or widescreen support required of games? Or is it something you need to carefully read the instructions about?

[fubarduck]

Originally posted by andyross63
Is it stretched horizontally or vertically?

Horizontally.
Why not just play that one troublesome game using the S-Video or composite inputs on V1-V4?

Because I want to play it in Progressive Scan. I don't want to go through the trouble of unhooking my component cable and hooking an S-Video cable to my X-Box every time I want to play this game, and I also don't want to go through the trouble of going to my X-Box settings and disabling 480p every time, then re-enabling it when I'm done, which is the other option.

I'd probably complain the game company for not writing the game to properly play in HD.

Funny you mention that! I DID complain to the game company for having this glitch weeks before its release, but my request was ignored and the game is still shipping with the glitch. See the thread here:
Progressive scan bug fixed in US version? (http://majescogames.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=169)

I don't konw much about the X-Box, but is HD and/or widescreen support required of games? Or is it something you need to carefully read the instructions about?
HD and Widescreen support are not required of X-Box games.

The new game for X-Box that has this glitch is called Guilty Gear X2: #Reload. The problem isn't that it doesn't support 480p or any HD modes, the problem is that it DOES support 480p, but its implementation is done incorrectly. If you would like a full description of the glitch, please see the thread I linked to above in which I explain the problem in great detail.

Back to the matter at hand--I wasn't asking for a workaround, I was asking if it was possible to fix the problem with my TV's service menu. That's why I posted here in the first place. All I need to know is if I can use my XBR910's service menu to correct the horizontal stretching on VIDEO 6, still have Progressive Scan, and not affect any material on VIDEO 5. A simple "Yes, it's possible, and these are the registers that can be used to do so", or "No, it's not possible" would be adequate.

[loadams]

Adequately replying, no.

[fubarduck]

Originally posted by loadams
Adequately replying, no.
Thanks. I'll trust you're right, as I haven't heard of any registers to fix overscan of an image within the 4x3 window besides MID3 0-3. I'll just have to accept that there is no way to fix this problem on the TV end unless anyone knows some other register that will only affect the overscan settings for 480p in a 4:3 window on VIDEO 6.

[andyross63]

When it stretched, does the TV automatically switch to FULL mode? For 480p, I think you can change the Wide Mode with the remote. Just change it so it's NORMAL. You'll probably have to do that each time you start the game, but hopefully it won't keep switching out while playing.

[fubarduck]

Originally posted by andyross63
When it stretched, does the TV automatically switch to FULL mode? For 480p, I think you can change the Wide Mode with the remote. Just change it so it's NORMAL. You'll probably have to do that each time you start the game, but hopefully it won't keep switching out while playing.
Did you even listen to what I said? Click on the link I already posted two messages ago, in which I explained the problem in specific detail. There are even pictures if you don't get it. I'm not an idiot, why do you think I'd be seeking SERVICE MENU settings if it were something that simple? I know what 4:3 mode and 16:9 mode are, buddy.

The game in question is a 4:3 game. I play it in a 4:3 window, just like I play all 4:3 games. The game stretches itself WITHIN THE 4:3 WINDOW. I swear I'm starting to sound like a retard for having to repeat myself so much.

I appreciate your help, but I don't appreciate your trying to answer my question without even reading it. Please read my question, and then answer it.

My question, for the umpteenth time, was if it is possible to adjust the horizontal position and horizontal size in VIDEO 6 for 480p and not affect the horizontal position and/or horizontal size in VIDEO 5. Please focus on this paragraph if you would still be willing to reply and be helpful. Sorry, but it's hard not to be a jerk when you've had to type the exact same thing 10+ times and people still don't get it. There are even pictures man! Look at the pictures.

[Waterbug]

Me don't gets it.

*me runs and hide*

Just kidding...

btw, what was the questions about?

[paulbehnke]

Ahm lost deep in the heart of Texas! I will however keep on reading these emotion filled posts.

[GregF]

At the risk of being laughed off this thread, I had my monitor calibrated professionally ages ago, but at some point I managed to screw up my Picture and Brightness settings from simply pressing Menu/Video. I really don't want to go delving into the service menu myself. Does anyone know what these two levels should be at?

[smodak]

Originally posted by ADU
The other major difference I noticed on my TV was Color saturation. Color needed to be set about 5 ticks higher for DVI to acheive the same saturation as my component input. If you don't have a way of calibrating the DVI input directly, these tweaks may help. But calibrating for DVI (and component, if you're using both) is probably best.

ADU, NTN1, anyone else still following this thread, My component inputs are calibrated. I recently built an HTPC, which I am connecting through DVI . I have also connected the same over component. I am noticing the DVI is definitely darker, less color saturated and has less contrast. I need to tweak the DVI input for brightness, color saturation and contrast, without touching the other inputs (specially components). So far I have figured out that the way to do so would be
1. 2170P-3 UBOF for Brighytness
2. 2170P-3 UCOF or 2170P-4 SCOL for color saturation (which one?)
3. 2170P-4 SPIC or 2170P-4 UPIC for contrast (which one?)

Is that correct? Or I am missing something?

Also, when I calibrated following the NTN1's post, I had to adjust
2170P-4 RYR
2170P-4 RYB
2170P-4 GYR
2170P-4 GYB
for proper decoder adjustment. Are they input independent? Or do I have to adjust them again for DVI?


Thank You!

[G.B.]

Look under Sony in the Popular Threads ...Umr does is a good place to see step by step of how to change.....The numbers will be different of coarse with different model ....But will help you ...Your on the right track on the settings....then go back & forth to get the balance right for each input....

[G.B.]

P.S. the first of this thread also gives you the info...Page one....G.B.

[smodak]

Thank You. I read the entire thread but still have the questions I asked.
Do you have a link to the umr thread?

[G.B.]

OK, Yes, UBOF Brightness,UPOF Picture, UCOF Color, would be where you want to be when you change it for the different inputs...G.B.

[sengsational]

I've had this TV for over a year, I guess, and it's always had this problem. It hasn't really bothered me, but now I'm watching more and noticing it more. It's going to be hard to describe, so please have patience.

Watching some TV show (high definition), and during a dark scene, there is a slightly brighter vertical band that passes over the screen from right to left. I suppose it's always happening, but I only notice it when it's a dark scene. You can actually see it better if you focus your eyes in the direction of the screen, but not directly at the screen. It moves from right to left in maybe about 1/2 second. It's not a line, but just an area of slightly more brightness, maybe about an inch or two wide (but it doesn't have 'edges', so width is sort of hard to pinpoint.

This thing happens when I'm watching a component input from a home theater PC that's set to output 1920x1080i (MyHD tuner). From what I understand, the Sony puts everything through its converter, even though it's already 1080i; I thought that maybe that had something to do with it.

Any ideas on what people call this artifact? I figured that if I knew what to call it, I could learn more about it, what causes it, etc.

--Dale--

[GregF]

I think that is usually associated with either electrical or antenna interference. I used to see something like that if I had my antenna hooked up and the overhead fan was turned on. I would try it without the antenna, and then try turning off various electrical sources and other ideas to see if it's an external source.

[Halfrican]

Originally posted by sengsational
I've had this TV for over a year, I guess, and it's always had this problem. It hasn't really bothered me, but now I'm watching more and noticing it more. It's going to be hard to describe, so please have patience.

Watching some TV show (high definition), and during a dark scene, there is a slightly brighter vertical band that passes over the screen from right to left. I suppose it's always happening, but I only notice it when it's a dark scene. You can actually see it better if you focus your eyes in the direction of the screen, but not directly at the screen. It moves from right to left in maybe about 1/2 second. It's not a line, but just an area of slightly more brightness, maybe about an inch or two wide (but it doesn't have 'edges', so width is sort of hard to pinpoint.

This thing happens when I'm watching a component input from a home theater PC that's set to output 1920x1080i (MyHD tuner). From what I understand, the Sony puts everything through its converter, even though it's already 1080i; I thought that maybe that had something to do with it.

Any ideas on what people call this artifact? I figured that if I knew what to call it, I could learn more about it, what causes it, etc.

--Dale--

Dale,

The 1080i "Vertical Banding" that you are describing is a known issue with Sony HDTV sets, you should be able to do a search for "Vertical Banding" in this forum and find a step by step solution to your problem. Depending on whether your set has the new "B board" or not you will find that the solution just involves some pretty minor adjustments in the service menu.

Hope this helps, PM me if you can't find the link doing a search.

[sengsational]

Originally posted by Halfrican
Dale,

The 1080i "Vertical Banding" that you are describing is a known issue with Sony HDTV sets...
Thank you kind sir, I will go on the 'vertical banding' quest shortly. I'll report back here with results.

--Dale--