DENON DVD3800 Factory Refurbished

[daddy_guy]

Man, so much to read about this player.....Just bought a factory refurbished Denon DVD3800 from Ecost.com, really good price, Denon authorized, all the good things. Now I start to do some serious digging about this player (should have done more "serious" digging first, I guess...) and I am a little worried...should I be?? I could not find an answer to this question after a lot of digging, so here goes. Anyone out there recently purchased this player as a refurbished unit? Should I expect (of course I do...) that most of the issues I read about here....faulty laser pick up, etc, will be fixed on a factory refurbished player?? I am so excited about this deal, I think it is probably the BEST deal out there for a player of this quality. I have bought factory refurbished before, and been very happy, but this is a complex, delicate machine, and for me anyway, a very BIG purchase!!! I would really appreciate any info I could get. This IS THE BEST PLACE to seek help and advice, and it does all of us a great service.
Thanks so much for any help or advice.

[Michael_V]

Hello and welcome to the forum!

After a significant amount of research, I also recently ordered this outstanding player from Ecost (same place I previously bought my refurbished RP91, by the way!). Should be here in a few days.

Like you, I also am assuming these players were sent back to have their optical pick-ups repaired. Seems likely. I would love to know how to verify that for my particular player, though. I have a PM in with DenonJeff about this and am (anxiously) awaiting his reply!

As you know, earlier production 3800s (manufactured before Sep 02) had MPEG decoders with the CUE or chroma bug, which can be fixed with a firmware upgrade. Check out this thread that discusses this issue in some detail: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=287641&highlight=denon+firmware. Note the link to the "Denon 3800 Unofficial website" where the firmware can be downloaded.

I believe that thread also talks about the long Y/C delay on this player. This was confirmed on the Secrets Shoot-out a while back: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=5. It seems that people are quashing this bug by using long Pr and Pb cables (red and blue) relative to a short Y (green) cable. A 17-19 foot difference seems to slow down the chroma channels so that they arrive at your display in sync with the luma channel. Some people are using RG6 coax from Radio Shack to make their own cables cut to length. Instead, I ordered a very nice set custom made for me by the nice folks at bluejeanscable (Y=3 ft and Pb/Pr=21 ft) for under $70 shipped. Not bad. All together I am getting a factory repaired, fully warranted DVD player with outstanding picture and sound and all known issues solved for around $550, which is just under half its list price.

Here is an excerpt from a thread over a Hometheaterspot (I believe) discussing the homemade cable solution to the Y/C delay issue (sorry no link!):

- - - - -

"I used the AVIA Y/C Delay screen's red/yellow bars to first see the 3800's Y/C Delay with the 3800 in progressive mode while of course using component cables. I then delayed Y with a video cable much longer than my Pr/Pb cables and found the Y/C Delay to get worse. I then made both the Pr and Pb cables much longer than the Y cable and the Y/C Delay got better, hence for the 3800 Pr and Pb are ahead of Y and you must slow them down (longer cables do that).

Through cut-and-try while carefully watching the AVIA red/yellow bars, I found that 25 foot Pr and Pb cables and a 6 foot Y cable made the Y/C Delay about non-existent for my particular RPTV/3800 combination.

How did I afford top quality 25 foot Pr and Pb video cables? (My previous 6 foot component cable was about 50 DOLLARS per foot and I wanted to maintain this caliber of cable quality in the special Y/C Delay elimination cables.) Well ........ I went to Rat Shack and bought two 25 foot RG6 DBS/DSS satellite cables for around 50 CENTS per foot and used them for the Pr and Pb cables. Since RG6 cabling is 75 ohm (like component video cables should be) - but also designed for around 1.5 GHz radio frequencies - it makes SUPERB 10MHz progressive video cables!

I now have a 3800 with the equivalent of only one minor shootout interlaced mode red box and one minor shootout blue box. It's images are dazzling with that smooth, 3D look that the Silicon Image deinterlacer is known for while at the same time providing any degree of razor sharpness you desire by tweaking it's very fine increment sharpness control. The 3800 is capable of outstanding progressive sharpness due to it's unique (of all the Shootout players) gentle and uniformly linearly rising video channel bandwidth envelope all the way to 10MHz and beyond - as talked about in it's Shootout commentary. This permits the great Silicon Image 3D look WITHOUT the image softness that some other Denon Silicon Image powered players have a reputation for (2800, 2800 MKII, 2900). Even the 9000 does not have the unique video response curve that the 3800 does.

Personally, I would not even buy the upcoming Denon 5900 if it was "perfect" in all respects but contained in it's design any video bandwidth roll-off under 10MHz, as I like the razor sharpness that comes with at least a flat (neutral) video response or, even better for progressive, a slightly rising response out to at least 10MHz."

- - - - -

Finally, here is an old link from this forum discussing the 3800 (and its various ills early on in its life): http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=177679

Good luck and enjoy your new player!

What say we keep this thread alive so that all of us taking advantage of the factory refurbished 3800s can report our experiences with it?

[daddy_guy]

Michael_V
I appreciate your reply...good work and a lot of help....please let us know what DenonJeff says about these factory refurbished units. How do we tell everything is up to date and fixed of all bugs... (black dots, serial #, etc....). I feel this is a killer deal on a killer player....gotta be THE BEST deal going right now on a DVD player of this build quality. I had to go for it!!! I asked Ecost for any info they could shed about this, and they were not too much help.......should know better.....
I can't wait either....should have delivery on Tue, 2nd!!!! Gotta be others out there who jumped on this deal.....lets hear from some of you too.

[epiney]

I just ordered one based on feedback in this forum. There were 3 left when I ordered mine. I was going to buy a Denon 1600 at Crutchfield for $329, but thought this was a better deal for video, since thats about all I'll be using it for.

I plan to connect it to a HD2 DLP projector that I'll buy in the next few weeks. I hope it will be a good match. I haven't shopped for a DVD player for many years, still using my first generation Rotel interlaced unit.

I was going to buy a Bravo D1, until all of the problems scared me away. I'll wait for the next generation DVI DVD players.

Thanks for posting all of the hints for this player. It is really helpful for someone like me.

Did anyone who ordered one try to buy a warranty? I added it to the cart, but it was removed when I checked out.

P.S. I'm running 35 foot cables to my projector. Does that mean I'll need 146 foot B/R cables to get rid of Y/C delay?

[pnichols]

epiney,

Using the AVIA Y/C Delay screen's right side red/yellow vertical bars, it seemed to take about a 19-20 foot shorter Y cable than the two Pr/Pb cables in my 3800-Elite RPTV setup to compensate-out it's Y/C Delay.

In your case, MAYBE a 35 foot Y cable and two 55 foot Pr/Pb cables would be about right. The question is since you're running fairly long lengths I don't know if the 3800's component video output amplifiers can even deal with a 35 foot cable, much less 55 foot ones. I guess that if you can nevertheless calibrate the contrast level and color balance in your system with the long cables - you're ultimately OK.

I'd use the best video cables you can. BTW, the "best video cables" are not expensive - they're just not video cables per se. Use RG6 satellite antenna-to-box cables for your video cables. These are 75 ohm characteristic impedance (as they should be) and designed for ~150 times higher frequencies than video frequencies, so they handle video frequencies perfectly. I get my RG6 satellite cables at Radio Shack for about 50 cents per foot - way less then my former $50 per foot high end "video cables".

Good luck with your 3800. Doggone near every DVD is coming out 3D from my 3800 now. I even have an attenuator on it's Pr output to custom tune up progressive and interlaced flesh tones just right in addition to carefully calibrating color balance beforehand. A non-skipping, CUE removed, Y/C Delay removed and Pr corrected 3800 puts out awesome progressive images - not just for the money but in an absolute sense. ;)

[Michael_V]

Epiney,

I also tried to buy a warranty and found it had been removed when I checked out. They told me to call their 800 number to order another one.

My understanding with the cables is that it is the absolute difference in cable lengths that corrects the Y/C delay, not the ratios between them, and 17-19 feet works for most people. That means for your situation you will need a 35 foot Y cable and two *approximately* 35+18 = 53 foot cables for the Pr and Pb channels. You will probably want to try the inexpensive homemade cable solution described above for that, and may want to experiment a bit yourself using the test pattern on AVIA, since you are using cables much longer than others have had experience with.

Keep us posted!

Pnichols,

Your post popped up while I was typing mine. Ditto on all he said.

By the way, your Pr attenuator has me intrigued. Can you elaborate on why this is needed and how it helps?

[epiney]

pnichols and Michael,

Thanks for the input. I ordered a set of cables from Blue Jeans Cable. The comments about absolute difference in length versus ratio make sense; should have thought of it before :o ! I'll probably make some extensions with the Tributaries RG6 quad shield coax I'm using to wire video signals to the room. It's sweep tested to 3 GHz and solid copper, so it should do the job. (got a great deal on ebay for this stuff, $130 for 1000')

I won't be able to test it until my projector is finally set up, which should be in about a month. I'll let you know if I experience anything strange from long cable runs.

Worst case, if things don't work that well, I'll replace my old Rotel which is acting up with the Denon on my CRT TV.

Thanks to you guys again for all the great advice.

[daddy_guy]

Funny, but when I ordered the 3800 too, the extended warranty was taken "out" of my shopping cart at the last minute, and I had to call the 800 number to add it to the order....kinda makes you wonder.... Still curious about how I can tell if a factory refurb has ALL the fixes completed.......(the nature of "factory refurbished" should imply that all fixes are up to the minute, but........)
there must be a way to tell, without going through the trial and error, hooking up, etc., and wondering "will it be a good one"????? Plus, we only have a 90 day DENON warranty to make sure all is well with our purchases... (once out of warranty, would the "Service Net" warranty and service be as good as Denons warranty and service???)
I too was going to order a 1600 at Crutchfield, but then I saw this deal and thought and struggled and rationalized my way into spending more for the best.......
if these players are indeed 100% fixed, then this is the deal of the year on a DVD player.......somebody must know a little more about these "factory refurbished" players out there.....help!!!!!:confused:

[Michael_V]

I live overseas and cannot easily make the call, but has anyone thought to call Denon about this? Might be our best bet, eh?

[pixelman]

I got one of the 3800's from them, and it arrived single-boxed, in packing peanuts, with a loose plastic bag covering the unit -- very un-professional.

The unit's DVD-Audio light was burnt out, it had the skipping issue on several discs I tried... and I got sick of it, and ordered the 2900 from them.

The 2900 came in proper Denon packaging, with original foam inserts, a nice factory thin-foam covering with tape, double boxed, etc. This unit is working great, and the picture looks just as good on my Mits 65511.

[Michael_V]

What an unfortunate experience. Not sure why that would have happened. These units are supposed to be refurbished at the Denon factory. Are they sending them out that way?

On the bright side, your 2900 seems like it arrived all right. Same vendor. And my RP91 from them two years ago was in great shape when I got it. Guess we will have to cross our fingers and hope!

[epiney]

Just added a 2 year extended warranty by calling ecost. Funny thing though, they first offered me an extended warranty that ran concurrent with the 90 day Denon warranty at $79.95. I then asked for the one that started after Denon's warranty and was quoted $59.95. I don't get it. You pay twenty dollars less for 90 days more total warranty coverage. I asked him three times if this was correct and he said yes. His logic was that Denon doesn't cover shipping and Service Net does, so people prefer to deal with Service Net. My response was, if its such a big deal, I'll wait till after the Denon warranty expires to get service since it's so short.

I bought the $59.95 warranty.

BTW ecost knew nothing about these machines. They claim they are packaged and sealed from the factory and they just ship them out.

[pixelman]

I just finished placing an order for an extra warranty for my 2900.

They didn't have anything that ran concurrent - only ones that started after the 90 days. It's an on-site warranty with a no-lemon guarantee (if it has to be repaired 4 times, you get a brand new replacement product).

It was $59 for 1 year, $79 for 2, $129 for 3, $179 for 4. You can add more years later on, and keep adding on, as long as you don't let it run out.

I asked about the 2 year for $59 that epiney spoke of, and he said there was no such thing. I asked about a standard Denon extra warranty, and he said they don't offer anything like that, only this on-site warranty. He did say that they use only Denon factory parts, and Denon authorized repair facilities.

So I got the 2 years additional (2 years + 90 days) for $79.

[epiney]

pixelman,

I don't know what the difference was. I spoke to a guy named Jason that said he worked specifically in the warranty area. I asked him so many times if it was correct that he started to get annoyed. I received my confirmation details. Don't know if they help, but here they are:

Item # 857731
Manufacturer Part No. 2CCX02
2YR 351-700 AFTERMARKET EXTENSION
Quantity: 1
Price: $59.95
Extended Price: $59.95

Purchase Order No.
Order Totals:
SubTotal: $59.95
Tax: $0.00
Shipping, handling and processing: $0.00
Grand Total: $59.95

[daddy_guy]

Just received my Denon DVD3800 , factory refurbished from Ecost. It came in a plain brown box, with a Denon sticker!!!, packed in peanuts and a plastic bag....not a good sign. Manufacture date is Aug 02...I am certainly stessed out so far. I have never seen packaging like this from a manufacturer, especially DENON.......a real disapointment for sure, and I can only hope for the best. Denon should be ashamed........I have 90 days........wish me luck!!!
I PM'ed DenonJeff on this one...I am really worried!!!! I hope he can help.:(

[pixelman]

epiney,

Thanks for the info -- I emailed it to the guy who sold me the warranty and asked him about it. I'll let you know what he says.


daddy_guy,

Exactly how mine came... I was very unpleased also. Be sure to put that thing through it's paces... hopefully you ended up with a better one than I did.

But I'm glad my 2900 came properly packaged (win NO Denon on the outside box, not advertising what was in it to all the world). If you have to switch that 3800 out, I can highly recommend the 2900!

[Jscopus]

Just got my Denon 2900 today. Double boxed with a Denon inside box and all the styro, etc. Looks brand new. The warantee issue is an interesting one. Ecost has warantees specific for DVD/Cams and also other categories such as MISC elect. The true DVD warantee is 59 for 1 year, 79 for 2, etc. They sometimes also sell other types of warantees for this item. My rep said they are not supposed to, that things might not be covered. The misc coverage is like 29 for one year I am not sure for two. I told my rep they had sold that to someone else- the reality is, if they sold it to you, I am sure they would have to honor it. It is likely a back door way to offer a deal on an extended warantee. My rep said he would not do it, it might compromise my warantee. I guess it depends on who you talk to, but they clearly have warantees that specify what type of item is covered. Truth is at 500, with no tax or shipping, hard to complain about two more years of coverage for 79- especially when Dakmart was selling the same thing for around 750-.

Can't wait to fire this up. Had gotten inside scoop from Denon that these refurbs were going out. When I called ecost, they were not even aware they were getting them. As someone said, they know nothing about the units. I had posted the info on the refurbs and glad people here grabbed them. Am waiting now to hear about a firmware upgrade to the 2900 that is rumored to be in the works. Not clear what issues it will address. Doubt the alt flag thang, but perhaps the bass issue.

Jeff

[pixelman]

Here was my eCost warranty order info:

Item # 775255
Manufacturer Part No. 2CDC02
2 YR DIGITAL CAMCORDER, DVD $351-$700
Quantity: 1
Price: $79.95
...
Grand Total: $79.95


And speaking of that mysterious 2900 firmware upgrade... :)

1) It would be nice if it added resume after power off.

2) I personally would like an option for the on-screen display language options to have one called "none" so that NOTHING would come up on the TV -- blank all the time.

This way I could set the unit's display to show track remaining, title remain, etc -- and leave that up, rather than having to scroll back to where it shows nothing in order to remove it from on-screen.

2b) Either that or have the on-screen display go away after a few seconds, and leave the unit's display set to the last setting (like 'track remain' etc).

[Michael_V]

Well, my 3800 came in the mail today, and I must say that I am very pleased. Mine was packed as described above, but it looked very well protected nonetheless and must have been buried in about a thousand foam peanuts. For $800 off list price, I will cut Denon some slack on the packaging! Double boxing would be nice, but short of that, they did a very reasonable job.

My unit looked absolutely pristine out of the box. Factory new. All cables, remote, manual, batteries wrapped in plastic.

Manufacture date on it is February 2002, long before CUE was routinely corrected in firmware, but so far I have seen no evidence of said bug (checked both Toy Story and Toy Story 2). And since I have yet to find a decent explanation of what all the firmware codes mean when you check them (and I did), I think I will hold off on updating mine until I see a problem.

The Y/C delay is quite apparent on the AVIA test pattern but how that affected the outstanding picture I saw beats me. Still, I will be happy when my corrective cables come! If the picture gets any better because of them, well, then hallelujah!

Playback is flawless, without jitter, freeze, or lock-up. The menus navigate lightning fast.

Very impressive build quality. Much better than the 1600 I returned today, and the picture is much sharper, which to me is much more pleasing. Am I the only one who found the picture on the 1600 a little on the soft side? Seems my old RP91 gave a sharper image.

Anyway, I couldn't be happier with my purchase. For the same price I paid recently for a new 1600 (which turns out had a bad optical pick-up!), this is a total no-brainer!

[epiney]

Just received my 3800 today. Denon single box Styrofoam inserts and tightly taped bag. Looks new. February 2002 manufacture date as well. Haven't tried it out yet. Will play with it on the weekend, but I really don't have the equipment to really test it, until I buy my projector.

daddy_guy, good luck with yours and please let us know if you hear from DenonJeff

I chose the 3800 over the 2900 for pure video, based on what I read here and elsewhere. Don't own SACD or DVDA. To be perfectly honest I don't even know what to look for in Y/C delay and have never bothered to look for CUE in demos.

Thanks again guys and good luck with your units. I hope you enjoy them.

[daddy_guy]

Well, I have hooked it up (just to the TV for now...redoing some stuff..) and so far, so good. Although the DVD's come out really hot, player doesn't seem to hot. Kinda weird.....playback so far is ASTOUNDING!!!!! This is the best picture I have ever seen!!!! Can't wait to hook it up to the surround system.......I am going to really check the performance and put it through its paces for a while, and, hope for the best. Build quality is also...incredible!! It's a beast!!! I just kinda wonder.....how long before I know it's a winner??? 10 movies, 20, 30.........kinda nerve wracking........guess it's just a "wait and see" thing........let's all hope for the best on a what seems to be a really good deal......
so far.........

[Michael_V]

daddy_guy,

Glad you got your player and are happy so far! I might encourage you to try to relax a bit and enjoy it more, though. There are no real guarantees in life, much less in high-end electronic gear (!), even when you buy your equipment new. One of us may get a bad unit, but it has been my experience that factory refurbished units are no more likely to have defects than their "A" stock counterparts, simply because the refurbs have been looked at much more closely and have had proven fixes applied to known issues (the 3800s got their new optical pick-up mechanism from the 9000, for example). In fact, my own experience is that the refurbished players are less likely to have defects. So far, I have owned three refurbished DVD players: the Panasonic RP91, a Toshiba 5109, and now the 3800. The previous two performed perfectly out of the box and lasted for a very long time. I hope and expect this one to do the same. On the other hand, both times I bought new players (the Panasonic A310 and the Denon 1600), I got units that crapped out in the first three months.

Life is too short, my friend. . . .

[pnichols]

Michael_V,

..........."Seems my old RP91 gave a sharper image."

Did you mean in comparison to your previous 1600 or your current 3800?

If you meant relative to your 3800, just tweak up your 3800's sharpness through it's menu and I'm sure you can get it's images to be any sharpness you want - more sharp than the RP91 if you wish. (I believe this is because of the 3800's unique designed-in video bandwidth response - gently, steadily, and slightly rising upwards from 0 dB right on out to at least 10MHz.)

[Michael_V]

Phil,

No, no, no, I meant compared to the 1600. The 3800 (even before Y/C correction) gives the sharpest, most solid picture I have seen, easily besting the RP91, which now moves to second place for me. Build quality on the 3800 is far better than either the RP91 or 1600, too. Just a fantastic machine!

Mike

[epiney]

I just tried a few test DVDs on my 3800 and so far I must say that I quite pleased. It has very noticeable picture quality and sound quality improvement over my old Rotel DV985 (I know it's a relic). Can only run interlaced until I complete me theater.

Right now, I can only test it on my 32" Sony XBR2 pre Wega generation TV (I know, it's a relic too, but it's great TV that cost me about $3K eight years ago). Does anyone know why I get a much better picture through composite than s-video? The s-video looks totally washed out while the composite looks sharp and smooth.

I looking forward to really testing it out in my home theater.

Thanks

[daddy_guy]

I can only run through interlaced too for now........I have the same TV as epiney I think....Sony 32" XBR2 ( does it have a separate tuner and monitor?) This is an incredible TV in my opinion.....still throws out a fabulous picture. I run through S-Video and my picture is unbelievably good....so close to "filmlike" - it's i.n.c.r.e.d.i.b.l.e.......it could be you need a better S-Video cable ( I use Straightwire Silver S), or, possibly try running through another input on TV (Vid 1, Vid 2, etc....) I want to try using a good composite cable, just to see.........
anyway, the Denon 3800 has been flawless so far...I am not able to pull myself away when watching movies....even my son noticed just walking in the room how good the picture is........
I hope I can eat my words for what I have said when my package arrived from eCost....... There is no doubt that Denon has made an incredible piece of equipment with the 3800....have been marathoning, watching movie after movie (7 or 8 by now), and not a glitch....only the finest picture I have seen outside of a very few films in a quality movie theater......
I am re-doing my set-up, and won't have it hooked up to the surround system for a few more days...I can't wait!!! let's keep this post going..I want to hear more about this "refurbished" player.....
I can see why people that have this player love it so much, and are willing to go through several returns if necessary to get it right......
Is this "refurb" better than buying new????
So far......

[nakenergy]

epiney,

you need a better s-video cable. Try a better s-video cable and the picture will leap at you. Its incredibly film-like and 3-dimensional.

[sacarmic]

I also purchased one of these units. I ended up getting it from macmall(same place) because of the return policy. They had free shipping as well when i ordered it.

It cam in the peanuts as well. Didn't bother me because the unit was in pristine conidition. I will say it didn't take long for the skipping and freezing to start. So I boxed it up, sent it to Denon and they did the transport fix to it. Once I received it back, it has been a GREAT player.

So my only suggestion is to those of you who have purchased them is to run a lot of discs through it to macke sure you don't have this problem. It would work pretty good on the first disc, but the second one is when the skipping started. Don't go by the front panel display, the counter continued to work, go by the picture.

I think for $500, it is a GREAT bargain even with having to send it back for the repair.

Just my 2cents.....

Scott

[Michael_V]

Scott,

Interesting that yours came with an old optical pick-up. Was it a Denon factory reburbished unit? Or just a return/open box from Macmall? If it was a refurb, I wonder what in the world was repaired on it if not the pick-up? Hmmmm. . . .

[sacarmic]

It was a denon factory refurb. They couldn't get it to reproduce the problem on the bench, but replaced the pickup anyway.

Scott

[Michael_V]

Got the custom component cable today. My total Y length is 6 feet, and my Pr and Pb are both 24 feet long. Using the AVIA test pattern just now, there is no perceptible change in my Y/C delay. This makes no sense to me. Any ideas?

[sacarmic]

In case anyone is interested, I have some delay boxes not being used. The are broadcast grade and you won't have to have all that extra cable laying around. Works great on my 3800. PM if interested.

Scott

[daddy_guy]

I just got an answer from DenonJeff about what is done to a refurbished unit. Nothing is added or replaced unless it showed that specific problem at the time. So they are not "totally" reconditioned and made to be 100% perfect and up to date - automatically. If it wasn't broke, they didn't fix it. (smart, as long as it was THOROUGHLY CHECKED OUT...) So, not all players automatically had firmware fixes, new lasers, etc... He said to play lots of movies, and if no problems within a few weeks, it should be fine. He said less than 2% had the problem anyway..I am comforted just a little with his response.........I have 90 days to determine if anything is seriously wrong. Should be enough time. He will send out a firmware fix if you need, just pm him. A very nice guy, and I'm really impressed.....
and,
WHAT A GREAT PICTURE!!!!!! A GREAT PLAYER!!!!!!!
so far........
:D

[Nathan_R]

While not the 3800, I ordered the 4800 from ecost last week and it arrived today. It is completely useless.

It was shipped in a Denon box covered in the plastic bag (mostly taped closed) and sandwiched between two styrofoam pads, one of which was completely destroyed. I should have known that was a bad sign.

So I pull it out of the bag and what do I hear-- it rattles! There's something broken inside of it. Blah. I tried popping in a disc and it did nothing. I got a pretty blue screen, but it won't play, go to menus, show the GUI, or anything.

So I believe I can thank UPS for dropping it several times between Memphis and Atlanta over the past 4 days. Luckily, Denon's website lists a Tweeter service center down the road from me.

Oh well, another few days without a dvd player won't hurt *too* much.
:)
Best regards,
~~Nathan

[epiney]

S-video problem resolved. Seems that I knocked the cable loose during installation. It should have been the first thing I checked. Feel kinda stupid now :eek: . Small problem with freezes like Scott's. Called Denon and the tech said it was most likely a laser pick up problem. Will send back for a fix.

Not really that concerned. Picture and sound are fantastic. Sure makes my Rotel gear and B&W speakers sing on concert DVDs. Overall still very happy.

[Michael_V]

Well, I decided to run my new 3800 through the torture test today to see if I could induce the optical pick-up to screw up. I ran the T2 Extreme edition through three times in a row, watched half of Cinema Paradiso, and finished up just now with an episode from the Simpsons Season Three. Nothing but rock solid picture. No freezes, jitters, or hiccups. And the disk did not get hot, as many with the pick-up problem have reported.

So far, so good. . . .

[kevinacker]

For those concerned about the Y/C delay:

Another, more elegant, way to fix the problem is to adjust the Y/C delay on the component inputs of your TV. I know that my Hitachi 51SWX20B will allow you to do this. Of course, you must be comfortable using the service menus.

I'm having my TV calibrated next month and am going to have the tech adjust accordingly.

[pnichols]

kevinacker,

Right you are - the best way is what you suggest. Unfortunately many (most?) display devices don't offer video delay correction - inlcuding my Pioneer Elite RPTV. :mad:

So ......... here's the line up:

Least eloquent - different length component cables (my solution)

Step up in eloquence - small delay compensation modules plugged onto the back of your 3800 between the component RCA jacks and your component cable strands (they are available)

Most eloquent - as you suggest ....... tweak away delay with capability built right into your video system somewhere!

BTW, note that Denon's upcoming new 5900 DVD player has built-in delay adjustment through one of it's menus .......... not THAT's the way to REALLY do it!!!!!!!!!!!

The good news of course is that a 3800 with it's Y/C Delay removed is awesome. (For what it's worth, without Y/C Delay the 3800 probably would have mathematically scored 1st or 2nd on the Shootout 3 results chart last year.)

[daddy_guy]

Well, day 6 with this player.....I have put this player through a torture test so far, playing movie after movie....even put on "repeat" overnight a few nights...must have played at least 20 movies...I must admit I have not watched every minute, but have watched at least 10 movies straight through, and not a glitch. I am worried that it does run rather hot, but I'm using a fan behind rack to keep things cool. The player is cool, but when I eject a disc, the discs themselves are really, really hot....I still don't know if I should be worrying.....Jeff said I will know within a few weeks, others on this forum have said it may take a month or two before acting up....so we will see. Still, the merits of this player deserve to be mentioned....I still am in awe of the quality picture it puts out!
Also, the build quality...this is the first player I have had that doesn't feel like a cheap plastic "toy"...it is a beast!!! I love it!!! Just worried about how hot the discs are after playing......please, be a good player for daddy_guy!!
good boy, good player,
so far, so good...........:D

[Michael_V]

Well, unforunately, I think I have a bad optical pick-up. We have had movies going pretty much all day long for the past two days and so far noticed at least two very slight pauses: one at the beginning of T2 (Carolco logo) and one during the first scene of Gone With the Wind. Almost looks like a layer change, but of course it isn't. A third pause about halfway through Cinema Paradiso (close up of Elena's face) may have been a layer change.

Since I am in Okinawa with the military, I would rather not mail this thing all the way back to the States, so have a PM in with DenonJeff about local service.

It is disappointing that Denon didn't just change these out when they came back, since it was a known issue. Shame on someone over there. Anyway, here's hoping this can be dealt with as painlessly as possible. I love this player and will be glad to have this repair behind me.

[daddy_guy]

Michael_V....
That is too bad....and it is my fear too. I have put in DVD after DVD for the last 5-6 days (15-20 movies, with the "repeat" on at night), and even though I haven't watched every minute, I have been checking, and have watched quite a few movies all the way through( at least 6 or 7)...no problems...yet...only a mesmerizing, beautiful picture.....DenonJeff said the problem should definitely surface within a week or two, especially under the "torture tests" we have put them through. And, less than 2% had the problem.....hmmmm......I am starting to stress again...
I am curious...you only had your player for 3-4 days...right? Did you discs ever come out hot? I have a fan behind player, and it keeps player cool, but the discs themselves are r.e.a.l.l.y. h.o.t.!!!!! That is what is worrying me....plus the 08/02 build date...naturally anything after that date had the new pick-up......please keep us posted with what happens....I am afraid I may still have to go that route too...such a great player...should have been automatically checked, knowing there was a problem.........even though for me...
still......
so far, so good.....
but I am not off the hook yet, I fear........
please, keep in touch with your progress....
I will too......

[Michael_V]

daddy_guy,

My disks do not come out hot, as often reported with these players. Even after spinning T2 continuously for nine hours, the disk still came out just above room temperature. Not sure what to make of this. Admittedly, the problems I have observed with this player (two very brief pauses) are small and required an inordinate amount of watching to pick-up, but based on others' past experiences, my concern is that these may only be the tip of the iceberg.

It seems the military exchange here is authorized to make repairs, so I have PMed DenonJeff (poor guy is really getting flooded lately!) to see whether I can get a new optical pick-up put in here.

I will keep you posted. . . .

[Aroc]

I have been following this thread with keen interest. Now, if a unit failed outside of warranty, and the pickup was believed to be at fault. Does anyone have any idea what Denon (or some other shop) would change for parts+labor to do the fix? $70? $150? ballpark? Has anyone seen a quote? Or perhaps is there someplace I could call to get an idea? Just curious, TIA!

Aroc

[daddy_guy]

Good question...I bought an extended warranty (easy enough, and not to expensive) and wondered if that would cover any serious problem once the Denon warranty expired.......I am certainly hoping so.......you should definitely get an extended warranty on a machine like this......just in case...$59.00 - one year.....$79.00 two years...I just really wonder how good these warranties are.......I have to assume they will replace any faulty part........I HOPE!!!!!
DenonJeff said problem would appear within the Denon warranty time frame anyway ( within a few weeks he said ), if it will happen at all, so I feel pretty confident....less than 2% have the problem he said.... Just put it through its paces when you get it......not to much to ask...watching movies on the best player under $2000.00.........not to much to ask at all......
One more thing....
BUY THIS PLAYER...IT IS A KILLER!!!!!!!!!!!!

[epiney]

Michael_V

Sorry to hear about your problems. Mine is doing the same. It happened on the first disc I tried and I thought it was a layer change as well, but it was freezing. Sending it back seems painless enough. I've already got my RA number and will package up tomorrow.

I hope you find a local repair facility in Japan. As Scott had said, even with this problem, I'm still very pleased with the player so far. Great value.

[daddy_guy]

Well, day 7 and I noticed my first freeze up....20 minutes into Star Wars-Attack of the Clones, it froze for about 4 seconds..........guess I was feeling lucky, but it didn't turn out that way..... I will call Denon, or write DenonJeff to see what's next. So disappointing, but I'm hopeful Denon can fix it.
I'll keep everyone posted...........

[kevinacker]

I also ordered a refurb 3800, which should arrive today.

I know we are working off a small sample size, but has anyone who has purchased a refurbished unit NOT had the skipping problem?

At this price, I'm willing to send it in and have it fixed, but, from this thread at least, it appears this will almost definitely be a necessity...

[epiney]

daddy_guy

Just call Denon at 310 974 1010 and toggle through the menus for tech support. Have your serial number ready and they'll give you a RA number and address to send it in.

[Michael_V]

Wow, we are batting a thousand here, aren't we?

The take home message for all those still contemplating making this purchase is: (1) Denon did not automatically change out the optical pick-ups (shame on them!) and you will likely have to have your player repaired (under warranty, thankfully!) and (2) even given that, at $449, this player is the still the steal of the century! I plan to keep this baby for a long, long time!

[daddy_guy]

Another good thing out of all of this, although I may be mistaken, is that the new laser pick ups are coming from the top of the line Denon DVD 9000, a $3500.00 machine!!! I read that somewhere...hope it is true. From what I've learned, this player is really close to the DVD 9000 anyway ....still a fantastic bargain....even with the grief we are going through...
wouldn't do it any differently.....
still bargain of the year!!!
so,
its off to Denon we go............
hope it doesn't take too long....I can't live without this player now...I think we've all been spoiled!!!!!!

[Aroc]

Michael_V: So once the optical pick-up is replaced the DVD-3800 is supposedly "rock solid?"

[pnichols]

Hang in there guys until you get your 3800's settled down into a rock-solid, no-skippy mode! What an image they indeed do put out ........ time and time again and DVD after DVD.

I really pushed mine to the PQ limit of what it is capable of using a special test DVD from Sony called "Dreams". This DVD is laid down as: Native 24 frames per second (instead of 30) - so no 3:2 pull down is required, and as native progressive - so no deinterlacing is required. What eye-candy reference grade images from this DVD, compliments of a superb no CUE, no Y/C Delay, Pr-corrected 3800! (I have no DVI data to prove it, but I can't image how DVI images could improve upon DVD's laid down in this format feeding an analog video path to RPTV or FPTV CRT guns .......... just kidding kindof!)

;)

[Michael_V]

Michael_V: So once the optical pick-up is replaced the DVD-3800 is supposedly "rock solid?"

Aroc,

See my post very early in this thread, probably the second one, for a run down of all known issues with the 3800. In a nutshell, those problems were (1) about 2% of optical pick-ups in units manufactured before Sep 02 failed and had to be replaced with the mechanism from the 9000; (2) all players before this same manufacture date suffered from CUE or the "chroma bug" but this can be corrected very easily with a firmware upgrade widely available (my refurbished unit came with updated firmware and no CUE), and (3) excessive Y/C delay on all units of any manufacture date. This last issue can be corrected in one of three ways as described in a recent post above. Most opt for long Pr and Pb cables relative to a short Y cable, though the delay box sounds like a nice alternative if you can get your hands on one.

Apart from these three issues, two of which are quite minor and easily corrected by the user, the 3800 is easily the best DVD player I have ever owned (and that list includes the Panasonic A310, Toshiba 5109, Panasonic RP91, and Denon 1600) and by far the most solidly built. Even with the laser pick-up issue, I highly recommend this player.

[Aroc]

Thank you for your reply, Michael_V. I had just finished reading the Special Denon DVD-3800 Thread so I guess my head was spinning with all of the info.

[daddy_guy]

Just packed up my player and sent it off UPS to southern Calif. Denon...they were very nice, and understood exactly what to do....(obviously have heard my story before...)...and I get new laser pick up..
my refurb is turning out (with a little grief) to be such a steal..... double, triple checked, fine tuned, and repaired with a top quality laser assembly. This is too good to be true!!! Just hope it doesn't take to long to fix.
so,
anyone reading this, anyone still on the fence about whether you should buy this player at a refurb price.....$440.00 or so for a player that is pretty darn close in build quality to a top of the line Denon $3500.00 DVD player........
and you can live without SACD...........you had better hurry..........
But that's only if you want a player and a picture that easily blows away the competition..Denon did some of their best work with this machine.......u.n.b.e.l.i.e.v.a.b.l.e.!!!!!!!!!!!
What are you waiting for?????
Well........?????
Just my opinion.................:D

[kevinacker]

Well, I got my player yesterday, and I've already experienced several freezes.

I think we can safely say to anyone considering purchasing this player that you must be prepared to immediately send it in to Denon for a laser assembly replacement and firmware update.

Still a great deal, IMHO.

Off to Denon it goes. . .

[srp]

Originally posted by daddy_guy
This is too good to be true!!! Just hope it doesn't take to long to fix.


I sent mine in for a new laser in early May. It took 3 weeks to the day from when I dropped it off at the shipper until it was back on my doorstep. They ran out of lasers right about the time my unit arrived at the repair center, so there was a couple of days delay waiting for new ones. The units return trip fell over Memorial weekend, which added one day to the shipping time. I would have gotten it back in closer to 2 weeks if not for those things. Oh well, stuff happens sometimes.

Been working like a champ since tho!

Good luck with your new 3800's. I hope you enjoy yours as much as I have mine.

-Steve

[LEVESQUE]

I sent my DVD-3800 to Denon Canada and it was back in 5 days!!!

But, it's still skipping and freezing even after the replacement. It's doing it less often, but it's still catching me by surprise once or twice a month with a nice fatty freeeeeezing of 5 to 10 seconds, and I always turn red each time... Can't get use to it.

[Michael_V]

Levesque,

Nor should you get used to it. Your player should absolutely not freeze with a new optical pick-up! I would notify Denon right way if I were you.

M

[pixelman]

That's the 2nd person I've heard from that still experiences freezing, even after the 'fix' from Denon...

And it seems that most of those 2% [with the problem] were 'refurbished' and re-sold to places like eCost.

[daddy_guy]

QUOTE: "I sent my DVD-3800 to Denon Canada and it was back in 5 days!!!"

Hmmmm.........
5 days total for a major fix - travel time, shop time......sounds like maybe they just "dusted off" the old pick up.....I certainly hope the laser pick ups that are used as replacements are thoroughly checked out ( and NEW! )....I would expect a trouble free (at least with the laser assembly) player after a major fix like that...kinda sounds like they hurriedly "pushed" your player through the shop.......
I kinda was expecting at least 2 weeks before I see my player again.....and thats if things go smoothly. Something sounds to good to be true in your case........doesn't sound like they took the time to really inspect and "fix" the problem........

QUOTE: "That's the 2nd person I've heard from that still experiences freezing, even after the 'fix' from Denon..."

makes you wonder what they did... I have sometimes wondered what exactly is done when a problem like this arises.....costly repair on an already heavily discounted item - do they just "dust them off' and throw them back out?? ( any company, not just Denon...)
I hope the Calif. service dept. is a little more thorough with the repairs than that......Just because they may not be able to duplicate problem in shop doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed...
we are not "making these problems up"......
Once to the shop is enough grief for any of us. But it sounds like you need to get back to Denon asap, and get that resolved once and for all..
Can't get over how many of these refurbished machines are having this problem.....this thread is making me a little nervous, but I've got to believe that we all just got machines that were returned and needed the fix, but instead were just "dusted off" like in Levesques' case.......
I don't know, but I am hoping for more than a dust off.....I expect the best........and at this point I am really confident Denon will come through....
Please, please, please, please,.....I have faith in Denon.........

[Michael_V]

daddy_guy,

I will need to send mine to the California factory, as well. What number did you call to set that up? I am having trouble finding it on their website.

Thanks! Let's keep our fingers crossed, eh?

[daddy_guy]

Jeff gave me a name and number for Torrance, Calif. service.....
Service manager is Randy...but anyone there can help....
phone for service dept is: 310-974-1010 ext 214... they were very nice, but might have to wait on hold a little.......

send it to: DENON ELECTRONICS, SERVICE DEPT., 1640 WEST 190th ST., TORRANCE, CA. 90501-1122...

Let's all hope our players come back better than new....that's what I'm expecting.........I'll let you know my outcome, and will certainly keep my eyes on this thread for the next few weeks to see what happens with everyone else........we should remember to put these players through their paces when we get them back...just to triple check........
fingers are crossed!!!

[daddy_guy]

I guess the only thing we all would like to know now that we all have our players on the way back to Denon for repairs, is whether or not anyone knows or had problems even after the fix....I don't want to even think along those lines, but read somewhere in here that this has been a problem. I guess what I want is to be reassured that this fix will do it.....we have probably all had problems in the past with repairs, sending in a unit to fix a specific problem, and getting it back and still having the same old problem. I know I had a unit sent in once that I am sure nothing was done to, other than to slap a sticker on saying it was fixed. Here I go being extra paranoid.....if this player wasn't so good, I would not normally be so troubled...it's just that this player is too good to be true, especially for what we paid, and to get something of comparable value now would cost a lot more.......I know there are no guarantees....but anyone with a story to tell about their experience after the repairs would be a welcome contributor.....
sorry for sounding so ....paranoid.........I should know better.....
Denon will come through! :D

[Michael_V]

daddy_guy,

Thanks for the Denon contact info! I will have to call them tonight (when it is morning there!). With two weeks shipping on either side of my repairs, this is going to be a long, painful wait. . . . Like you said, this player is so good, I can't go back now!

Mike

[daddy_guy]

:D :D Pretty impressive...we are obviously willing to go through a lot for this player....would we be willing to do the same for some other piece of hi fi equipment?? :confused:
I probably would have been fed up, disgusted, upset, wanting my money back, etc....
normally,
but not us 3800 owners who have been bitten by the quality bug.....
the best we can come up with is......

we miss our players!!!! And want them back!!!

WOW!!!

I miss my player!

And I want it back!!!

Only one question....how did I live without this player before????

WOW!!!!:D ;)

[jkscherk]

I'm seriously considering getting rid of my Panasonic H1000 and going to the DVD3800. The chroma delay solution of super long cables bothers me however (I don't really have the room for 20+ feet nor do I want to spend more on cables.)

Does anybody have a lead on the delay box that was mentioned as a fix? Anybody have any experience with it that can speak to its quality.

BTW Is this problem found in both progressive and interlaced output modes? I'll be sending an interlaced signal via component cables to a Lumagen Vision processor.

Thanks,
John

[pixelman]

I have a set (2) of these delay boxes. I bought them for my 3800, but before they arrived, I traded my 3800 in for a 2900... So I don't need them anymore.

PM me if you are interested.

[daddy_guy]

I ordered a pair of these delay boxes too...haven't gotten them yet, but they seem like one of the better solutions to the problem (a minor problem at that). This is how the professionals adjust for such problems. Every player will have their own nuances, and whatever problems the 3800 has, they are easily addressed, and once fixed, you will be "stuck" with the steal of the year....and one of the top 2 or 3 players out there......buy the refurb....put it through its paces, add an extended warranty.......then problems or not, you will have saved a bundle, and have an incredible, easily fixable (if needed) player.
:D

[jkscherk]

OK guys...now I'm a little confused! I just read this on the 'Secrets' DVD database:

"The initial unit we received had the chroma error. However, we applied a firmware fix Denon sent us, and it did fix the problem. Current units at retail supposedly already have this fix or a new, fixed MPEG decoder that has an equivalent fix in hardware."

So my question......do all 3800s have the problem or just early production runs....which is what these refurbished units are?

Can someone clarify for me? Also, after what point was the laser/tracking problem fixed?

Thanks again,
John

[daddy_guy]

I believe all units manufactured after Aug 2002 had the chroma fix......firmware is still available though if needed from Denon....The faulty Laser Pick Ups were replaced after late Aug - early Sept. 2002 build date.......so, basically any model manufactured after Sept 2002 should have all of the fixes......but you just never know for sure what will screw up, and when, with such complicated machines....built by ANY company.....kinda take your chances...that is what the warranty is for........
still, all in all, a great player!!! :D

[sacarmic]

How do you tell what firmware you have in your player?

Scott

[daddy_guy]

For all of you experts out there, check out this website...it will tell you how to go about checking if your player needs the upgrade. http://www.geocities.com/denon3800/
I am not even gonna try to figure any of that out.......it is for the brave and adventurous only....
also, this thread has lots of info. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=287641&highlight=denon+firmware.
Personally, I would just check for the chroma bug by looking...really carefully.....if you don't notice it, then why worry? You can get the firmware fix if needed though from Denon I believe...takes about 90 seconds to install once you get it. But like I said, if it's a problem, you will notice it in certain scenes.
And,
There are others out there that may also have the firmware fix handy.....
the big problem though with this player was the faulty Laser Assembly....you will only know by the build date, or you will start to notice freezes for a few seconds in places there shouldn't be any...I noticed my problem after playing about 10 movies...within a week of getting the player...started slow...just a freeze for 4-5 seconds (unrepeatable, so it's not the disc...) and then slowly happening a bit more. Warranty is helping make it right ....Denon has been great about these problems, and really stand behind their products.
Oh yeah,
better hurry up and get one before they're all gone!!!!:D :D

[ZICK]

Daddy-guy thanks for service info. I just got my 3800 from Ecost yesterday. It came with 3 problems: 1)unite does not respond to remote control so I can't set it up properly, 2) it does freeze for 3-4 seconds, 3)DVD's are hot when they come out. It was manifactured 2/2002. I'm running it through a Denon AVR-5700 to Pioneer Pro-730 via component jacks and I am a little disappointed in the picture quality. After all the positive comments from this site I expected it to blow my Sony DVP-S7700 away. Maybe after the repairs it will. I have not seen the choma bug yet, but if it does exist, do you think Denon will repair it also?

[daddy_guy]

Zick,
Wowwy! :(
You ended up with quite a set of problems with your player........
My remote, the response time for commands, were all above average with my unit....The DVDs do come out really hot, but DenonJeff told me that it was normal........I asked the same question about fixing the chroma bug while in the shop, and I did not get an answer yet...most likely, they will not do anything about it...unless it is glaringly obvious when checking it out....but like I said, the firmware for the chroma bug is easy to get just in case.......from Denon or DenonJeff among other places......
Sometimes I think UPS contributes to problems we have with equipment.....I know they do not "handle with care", that's for sure, and these players should be treated gently I would assume...lots of delicate parts, really touchy alignments with certain parts, etc.....it is amazing these things even work by the time the shippers get through with them....... I am more amazed that you are not happy with the picture.....it is the one outstanding thing that has made me a convert to Denon DVD players...I too had a Sony DVD player, and while it was one of the better machines out there, it didn't compare in any way (quality, build, picture...) to the Denon....
don't know what to tell you about that part.....I am not a professional reviewer, and don't put the players through demanding tests, with top of the line reference test equipment, etc., but my eyes tell me......the picture is incredible......
when you talk with Denon, tell them everything that you think is wrong....they should do their best to make it right.....good luck!!!!
and, by the way,
man, I want your TV......I have been looking at Pioneer TVs...wish I could afford one....!:D

[pnichols]

Zick,

"......Pioneer Pro-730 via component jacks and I am a little disappointed in the picture quality...."

You have something wrong somewhere in your hookup. Try eliminating the component switching in your 5700 and run component direct from your 3800 to the 730. I use one 6 foot and two 25 foot cables (to eliminate the 3800's Y/C Delay) for component - run directly from the back of my 3800 into Input 2 on my Pio Elite Pro-610.

I have the 3800, video cabling, and 610 carefully self-calibrated together as a system, even using a Pr attenuator on the back of my 3800. This combination throws out spectacular images. I have not seen a "bad DVD" yet with this setup. As you know, Pio Elite's can even make VHS like most folks never see VHS. I watched a Super VHS commercial version of Star Trek VI last night and couldn't hardly tell it from DVD.......so you can image what your 730 should do with a 3800 putting out anamorphic progressive images if you can get everything just right. Awesome.


;)

[ZICK]

Thanks for your input Gents.
To be perfectly honest, I have only had my PE730 for 3 weeks and I'm still fine tuning it. I bought the Denon 3800 knowing I would probably need to do warranty service. So I am not upset. I believe in Denon and the 3800, from the demo I did last year, it has great features and quality, it's built like a tank. I was going to hold out to see the DVD 5800 but decided that I don't need the extra features/$$$. I was surprised at the improvements of the AVR5800 and 5803 after I bought my AVR 5700 but I still love it. I posted a question to another thread asking if my AVR5700 would effect the signal from the DVD unit, but did not get a reply from DenonJeff yet. When I get it back, I will directly connect it and use my Avia disk to set it up.
Many of you on this site are very sharp and I learn a great deal, thank you for your postings.
Zick

[ArtBee]

I am considering a 3800 to replace my old Pioneer DVD-525 which has been dead reliable and plays almost anything. I hope to improve on video detail and video noise. My display is a 42in ED NEC plasma. Is the Y/C delay something I should worry about on a screen of this size?

[zoro]

well, a local dealer, bewared me on denon mechanical problems, he prfered marantz 8400 over denon and offered me a great price on that too?

[zingzing]

I too just order the 3800 from ecost. Now I'm having seconds thoughts. I should have order the 1600 instead so I won't have to deal and worry about the 3800 problems. We'll see when the dvd player arrives and put it through some torture test

[kevinacker]

Zingzing -

Given the track record on this forum, you can just about take it for granted that the unit you get will have freezing problems and the CUE bug. Both of these can be easily corrected, but it will require a firmware update and sending the unit to Denon for a new laser assembly. If you are not willing to have these corrected, I wouldn't buy the unit.

[daddy_guy]

OK. :) So we take our chances sometimes. Sometimes it turns out for the best, and other times, well, we don't do so well. But it is usually worth the risk. How many chances do you get to buy a player that is probably worth well over $1200.00, that is factory checked and rechecked, all under warranty, for $449.00? The cost to value ratio on this deal is unbelievable!!! It actually turns out to be a good thing, knowing that the player you end up might have a know problem that is easily fixable. This is a player that, after all is said and done, has been put through torture tests at home by real consumers, who know the problems and what to look for all too well. If a problem arises, it will show itself soon enough, be easily and cheaply fixed, checked, and re-checked, so that we now have a player that will be working at 110%! I too was going to get the 1600, a great player and a great deal going on at eCost. But when digging further into the quality and build of these two players, I realized I could get a player that is really much closer in quality, design, and build to the top of the line Denon DVD9000, a $3,500.00 player, by spending just a little more. The 1600 is a great player, but is a poor cousin to the 3800, and actually more of a glorified Panasonic design player ( not a bad thing though...), than an original, top quality, player with some unique parts and features. Just had to decide if it was worth the possible extra hassle involved with returning player if need be. But the price made that an easy decision. And once all problems are fixed (remember, we are lucky in a way to be able to know the problems beforehand, and get them fixed under warranty) we end up with a player that looks and performs more and more like its's big brother, the $3500.00 DVD9000. If you like the 1600, and feel more secure and safe buying it, you gotta go for it, I'm sure it is a fine player, but if you crave something a little more out of the ordinary, something special and unique among this generation of DVD players...(who knows what is right around the corner??).....get the 3800 and be happy!!!:D :D

[ZICK]

zingzing, I'm upgrading from a $1000 Sony(which is well built) to the Denon 3800 for $449.
Machanical problems are unheard of in Denon from my research. Marantz and Denon are own by the same Corp. Go ahead and spend 2-3x the price. your salesman will love you for it.

[daddy_guy]

A truly stellar upgrade!! An upgrade like that is better than fabulous...it is close to perfection.....even with the possibility of a little added grief upgrading some things...remember, it's all on Denon.. except original postage to shop, and I'm sure I could have made a fuss for a few extra dollars and have been taken care of.....but I am pretty close to the Los Angeles shop so shipping was cheap.....as long as UPS can read the "fragile" sticker.......
I upgraded from a Sony DVD player too.....only not such an expensive one....mine was the DVD S550...an OK player for $250.00 four years ago......
I feel I still gotta preach the word about the best upgrade going.....if you are looking in the $300 -$3,000 range, you have got to consider this player...seriously!!! Gotta hurry though...they are almost all gone.....
Deal of the Year!!!

[zingzing]

I already order the 3800. I was reconsidering if I should cancel before it shipped. But too late now it's shipped already. How can you tell if the unit have the upgraded laser or not. After reading this tread most likely it doesn't. After they reservice the 3800 do they fix the Y/C delay problem too or do I have to get really long cables or delay boxes. Another question for those that have their units reservice, how does the player compare before it went to the shop.

[daddy_guy]

The easiest way to tell if your player has the new laser pickup assembly, is by manufacture date....anything after Sept 02 I believe is fixed of all problems.......if built before that date it is a wait and see thing.......As I was told by Denon, put it through its paces for a week or two....you'll see soon enough if there is a problem.(picture freezes for a few seconds). As to the other questions, well as soon as I get my player back from the shop I will make a full report...I ordered the delay boxes, just in case I need them. An elegant, professional way to deal with the problem should it arise (TV stations use the delay boxes), and there are some good deals to be had if you look.....
So, bottom line is to get this player, then, if there are problems, talk with Denon...you will get expert help, and they are a great company to have to deal with if such problems arise. :cool:
keep checking this thread for updates.......;)
and I want to hear from others too.......:D
this has been a great, helpful thread.....;)
thanks to all and lets keep it going......;) :D

[pnichols]

daddy_guy,

"anything after Sept 02 I believe is fixed of all problems"

The Y/C Delay will still be present and you have to remove this yourself. So far I know of no communication from Deon on them being able/willing to remove this for 3800 owners.

If Denon ever offers to fix Y/C Delay I'll be the first in line - since I have a 5 year warranty. ;)

[daddy_guy]

Phil,
Quote "The Y/C Delay will still be present and you have to remove this yourself. So far I know of no communication from Deon on them being able/willing to remove this for 3800 owners.

If Denon ever offers to fix Y/C Delay I'll be the first in line - since I have a 5 year warranty" :)

Thanks for clearing that up...I noticed a few posts back that you use the different size cables to fix the problem....you said you even use a "pr attenuator" on the back of your 3800.......what exacly is that, and what does it do?? Does it work something like the delay boxes??
just been kinda curious since I read that.......
it's nice to know someone who seems to really appreciate this player.....:)

[pnichols]

daddy_guy,

I use a $9 Radio Shack 75 ohm RF continuously variable "attenuator" (plus two $2 adapters) plugged onto the Pr component RCA plug on the back of my 3800. I then plug the 25 foot Pr cable (which ....... along with a 25 foot Pb cable eliminates Y/C Delay) going to my RPTV onto this attenuator.

I put the attenuator in it's "zero" or "no attenuation" setting and then carefully color calibrate my 3800-RPTV combination. No matter how I do this I don't quite like facial color or the overall red content of images, as they always look just a small tidbit too red or pinkish. I then load up a couple of reference grade DVD's and then turn up this attenuator just a small partial turn - maybe 1/16th of a turn while looking at flesh tones on the screen. This little bit of Pr signal reduction from the attenuator is just enough to tune up (reduce) the reds just enough. The result is spectacular natural colors beyond what you can achieve with AVIA by itself.

By the way, once you insert and adjust this attenuator and then go back to AVIA to double-check your 3800-display color balance calibration (leaving the attenuator as you adjusted it), the color balance is STILL CORRECT and UNAFFECTED by the attenuator's setting. Why this is so is complex and I don't have the time to write up the several paragraphs to explain it - but it DOES WORK and is technically sound.

So ......... the ideal (IMHO) setup is a 3800 driving a CRT-based (for superb black levels unlike other display technologies) display with:

A) CUE removed from the 3800
B) Y/C Delay removed from the 3800

and

C) a Pr attenuator plugged onto the back of the 3800 that is "precisely eye-ball set"

(This Pr attenuator trick is often needed with, and will work with, any DVD player/display combination using the analog video component cable hookup between them. This in fact is one problem with the DVI connection - you give up access to the R/G/B color information in case you don't exactly like the color naturalness you are winding up with on your screen and want to do something subtle about it. Very rarely, but occasionally, I even tweek this attenuator just slightly for individual DVD's that don't quite have the correct skin tones encoded unto the DVD for whatever reason(s). You're outta' luk with the DVI connection in these cases..........and before you DVI folks say ".......but I can do the same thing with the hue and/or color controls" ......... please be reminded that the hue/color controls do not technically do what Pr attenuation does and you should not touch the hue/color controls to tweek facial intonation after your system is once calibrated. But tweeking a Pr attenuator is OK to achieve precision red balance.)

;)

[Marc Alexander]

Red Push attenuator is a solution if you cannot correct the color decoder in your TV. Otherwise, it is better calibrated in the display device.

[Marc Alexander]

I just got mine from e-cost today. Packaging was severely damaged (they really need to double box). Internal foam was busted and player was moving loosely in the box. Player does not seem to be damaged one bit (looks brand new). This thing is an f'ing tank! It would crush (literally and figuratively) the Mits DD-8040 I returned.

The video quality is truly incredible (it is better than the 8040 and Malata even at sharpness -6). One thing folks forgot to mention (or I missed it) is that it supports 4x3 windowboxing on 16x9 sets. This is why I bought the 8040 (was even thinking about trying a 963sa) and I thought I would have to live with the poor mediamatics deinterlacing on my Malata N996 for 4x3 titles (video quality and overscan is horrible on my Mits 4x3 mode). Now, I don't think I'll even open my 1600 coming from crutchfield (just resell it). Deinterlacing is about as good as DCDi, I only see an edge to DCDi with fast motion. I can finally watch Ninja Scroll and Ultimate Jordan without cringing.

Another thing is that screen position/overscan must be adjusted in the TV because of this player's pixel cropping. No big deal. I'm just praying I don't have laser pickup problems.

This player has everything I've dreamed of. 4x3 windowbox. No noticeable layer change. Great video and deinterlacing. Smooth 2x forward scan. It might be worth the $1200 MSRP! What a steal!

The only thing it is missing is a zoom mode for non-anamorphics. Not a problem since my TV does a decent job and I still have the Malata.

THIS DVD PLAYER IS THE SHAT!!!

[daddy_guy]

So glad :D to hear another happy enthusiast who was smart enough to make the buy of the year before it was too late! You're right, I think I would have paid $1,200.00 for it too. But for under $500.00........wow!!!
Send it's little cousin ( the 1600 ) back, or hang on to it for a while, and resell....you will probably get more than what you paid for it. ........some people would still rather have the 1600, and you could probably make a killing .................
but,
We are the lucky ones;), the ones that jumped on the 3800 before they are all gone..........you simply cannot do better, especially after reading this thread, and getting all of the helpful advice from people with experience using this player. Some of the tips, etc. have been so helpful...thanks Phil...
can't thank everyone enough,
this beast is becoming one fined tuned machine.....
I am still in awe..........
I want to hear more.....:D

[zingzing]

Does anyone know where to get the delay boxes? And how are you suppose to use them. Using 25ft wires is not really a viable option for me.

[daddy_guy]

Do a check further back on this thread...there is a member who was selling the delay boxes at a very reasonable price.......(I got some......you need a pair of boxes...)
Man, there is just so much helpful info on the 3800 if you do a little hunting........it will be worth your time......
this is a great forum, so very helpful, with great members!!:D

[heavymetal3001]

Add another one to the list of "Just bought the 3800" Inspite of the problems listed here this was just to good to pass up and with ecost being part of border free my taxes and duty coming into Canada are cheap. I went ahead and ordered one from ecost. I can live with the problems but the reports on how they are being packed has me spooked but oh well. I will hope for the best. When I get it I will come back and post on how it holds up against my current player the Sony DVSP 9000ES. The Sony is a nice player but it's not the end all people make it out to be and I want a better picture then what I have now. I hope I made the right call with the Denon!

Also, I have read and re-read this whole thread and if I have it right there are basically 3 issues with this player that need to be fixed right?

[pnichols]

Marc,

"Red Push attenuator is a solution if you cannot correct the color decoder in your TV. Otherwise, it is better calibrated in the display device."

I prefer to broaden "red push" into the more general insidius problem of incorrect color balance for a variety of reasons ...... not all coming from decoding issues in display devices. i.e. Slightly un-matched Y/Pb/Pr video gain in your DVD player can cause color balance to be off no matter how careful you calibrate.

Even if color imbalance might be coming from incorrect decoding in a particular display, as far as I know and read most displays don't allow you to adjust their decoding - only color saturation and hue/tint - and I've found that these should not be used to correct for color imbalance after you've calibrated saturation and hue/tint against reference standards.

(Most viewers don't notice ever so slight pink faces - it's just my hot button cuz I don't see pink faces much when I go to the shopping mall so I figure they don't belong in HT images either! I even use the attenuator in the component line feeding HD to my display to get color balance just right.)

[ZICK]

1-My first assumption is that the Denon DVD-3800 has better audio processing than the AVR-5700. correct? I'm connecting my DVD-3800 player's audio to my AVR-5700 receiver using anolog 5.1 audio connections. assuming this is the best connection. I'm then setting up the speaker delays (distances) and volume levels internal to the DVD player for maximum fidelity.
2-My question is: do I leave my existing AVR-5700 receiver system set-up as it is? My thoughts are that my DBS dolby, which is an digital optical input, would still need the existing set-up as-is? Please correct me if I am wrong in this assumption, that because the DVD audio is anolog and not digital, it would not be receiver processed as the digital signal is? Is there anything that I need to re-program in the receiver besides turning DVD digital input to "off"?
3-Avia dvd disc or internal tones for best set-up?
4-If I used optical-out then I do not program the DVD and just let the receiver do everything?
MY video out from the DVD will be direct connect to my PE-730 monitor via component cables, DBS via S-video.
Thanks for your recommendations.

FYI- my player was packed in it's original box with s/n on it and had NO visible scatches or damage. Looked brand new.
Once again Thanks to all of you for this thread. I would never have found such a great deal or be willing to go through this without your help.

[ZICK]

I read the spec sheet before buying the 3800 and agreed that it is a good unit. While my player is in for service, I decided to read the manual and realized it is MUCH better than I thought it was. There are few new players in this catagory.

[daddy_guy]

I am so glad some of you out there agree that this is THE PLAYER when it comes to DVD players...unless you wanted to spend over 3,000.00 dollars...or more for something comparable..... Yep, it doesn't get much better than this....feels good, doesn't it??? With a little research, and a little guts..........
We lucked out on a truly GREAT DEAL!!!!:D

here's a question that might be dumb, but....
do any of you use the FR1 & FL1 output to the CD input on Pre amp for 2 channel listening, and then use the FR2 & FL2 and the other 5.1 outputs for DVD to Pre amp 5.1 inputs?? What is the purpose of the FR1 & FL1/FR2 & FL2 outputs really all about?? I guess thats my main question. That is one that baffles me a little....
also, if your Pre amp has bass management, and the 3800 has bass management, should I set the DVD player and the Pre amps settings the same.....front- large, surround-large, etc.......
You would think I could figure this stuff out, but with all of the experienced users of the 3800 out there, I thought I would ask to be sure.....
what is the ideal way to hook this monster up???
My plan:
coaxial out -> Pre amp coaxial in
FR & FL -> Pre amp cd input
FR2, FL2 and the other 5.1 outputs ->Pre amp 5.1 input
Is this the ideal set up??
Am I wasting time and cables?

Am I making sense??:confused:

[Marc Alexander]

This player does run hot (probably part of what causes the laser pickups to fail). I planned to install a fan but this thing has no air vents...just a big heat sink on the underside.

I thought about a cool-plate (http://www.smarthome.com/8734C.HTML), but there must be a cheaper solution.

[kbonnel]

Did anybody get the ecost extended warranty? I just got my refurb 2900, and ecost indicated they can no longer offer the extended warranty (per a request from Denon). Anybody get the same answer?

Kimo B.

[ZICK]

daddy-guy
FR1, FL1= 1 set of front right & front left audio out
FR2, FL2= 2nd set of front right & left audio out
It's just like your VCR having 2 audio outs.
Some people run 2 different amps, an audio/video processor for H/T and a stereo processor for music as I do. My Denon AVR-5700 is for my H/T and my other amp powers speakers in different rooms and the outside speakers. So the 3800 allows you to input 2 different power amp sources. You are wasting connections if you connect the 3800 to 5.1 and the CD input when using only one amp, Just play CD's through the DVD player and save the CD input for a 100-400 disc changer for parties that can play all night without interruption. If you have just one amp, sellect stereo mode and enjoy it. Remember that "Pure Direct Mode" turns off the video component for a cleaner audio signal, if you program it to do so- a nice feature of the 3800. My 3800 will be dedicated to H/T because the CD changer has good enough fidelity for my other amp and speakers.
Having 2 audio outs are just another nice feature and another reason why we got such a great deal on this unit.

[ZICK]

Marc
If I remember correctly, all the other dvd players built on this frame has NO venting either. I run a quiet fan behind my A/V rack and we have a return H/AC vent that helps.

[ZICK]

Kimo
I got the third party extended warranty for $79, just 90 days from Denon.

[pixelman]

Marc,

This isn't too bad...

http://www.sportsimportsltd.com/coolrectherc.html


Or perhaps one of these:

http://www.markertek.com/MTStore/product.CFM?BaseItem=QFP%2D1

http://www.smarthome.com/8734fp.html


or maybe a small portable fan:

http://www.markertek.com/MTStore/store.cfm?framed=/MTStore/product.CFM?BaseItem=ELEC-3037

[pixelman]

Originally posted by kbonnel
Did anybody get the ecost extended warranty? I just got my refurb 2900, and ecost indicated they can no longer offer the extended warranty (per a request from Denon). Anybody get the same answer?

Kimo B.

Call them back and speak to someone else. Ask for item # 775255.

That is the 2 year warranty for DVD players in the $351 - $700 range. It's $79.95. You can keep adding more years later, as long as you do it before it runs out. It's an on-site warranty, with a 'lemon' guarantee (if they have to fix it more than 4 or 5 times (can't remember exactly) then you get a brand new unit.) If they can't come on-site they issue you pre-paid shipping to send it off. They only use Denon factory parts.

[zoro]

try goodguys, they sell, open box etc with full waranty, around $660

[Marc Alexander]

Originally posted by pixelman
Marc,

This isn't too bad...

http://www.sportsimportsltd.com/coolrectherc.html I don't think a cooler above the unit will help. All the heat is generated/dissipated underneath.

http://www.markertek.com/MTStore/store.cfm?framed=/MTStore/product.CFM?BaseItem=ELEC-3037
might work

[heavymetal3001]

Originally posted by kbonnel
Did anybody get the ecost extended warranty? I just got my refurb 2900, and ecost indicated they can no longer offer the extended warranty (per a request from Denon). Anybody get the same answer?

Kimo B.

I tried but they are now saying that they won't honour it up in Canada. I even phoned back a few times and got the same answer from a total of 3 unique people. Not sure on the US side how they are working it. I did get a little panicky and phoned Denon Canada and they have no problem with the 90 day warranty. The guy I spoke with on the phone even went as far as to say if I saw anything I thought was out of the norm to send it to them ASAP and they will fix it up!

I love a company that stands behind there stuff!

[daddy_guy]

The good thing is 99% of the time if there is a problem, it will show up within the factory 90 day warranty time frame. I cannot believe that they refused to sell an extended warranty. They live off of those things! They love to sell you an extended warranty!! Always been hassled to buy the "extended warranty" no matter where I shop....whatever I buy....shoot, I bought one this time!!! It is harder to believe that DENON requested it...if that is in any way true, then shame on Denon...I cannot believe it!! That would mean they have no confidence in their product, and that they are afraid of the number of claims that would come in. Can't be right!! It can't be!!!!!!!!
Denon doesn't build junk...and isn't that low...or stupid....:eek:
get your extended warranty if you buy a refurb......factory warranty is only 90 days on a refurb.....(generally long enough to find out if you got a lemon, though...), but, just in case.....
And,
I just use a couple small, cheap fans behind the rack...works well, and you can barely hear them...it's a fair trade off to keep your components cool...and it works like a champ......:D

[daddy_guy]

Forgot to add....
Denon will take very good care of you if you need help......they have with me.........
it's good to know...........

[zingzing]

Just got the dvd player. I was horrify when I saw the condition of the box. Seems like it been through a war zone. When I open it everything looks fine and in pretty good shape. Too bad the build date is 2-02. Time to test this baby out.

[daddy_guy]

Other than the packaging, first impressions of this player are great, aren't they?? A beautiful, solid, well built machine. Put the player through its paces...play (and watch) as many movies as you can stand....give it a week or two....you'll notice any problems......
either way, you have a great player, backed by a great company.
Good luck, and keep us posted!

[pnichols]

My 3800 build date is Feb, 2002. Serial No. 194.

For several weeks when new it used to run hot, then cooled down eventually. I can't imagine what would make equipment do this. Now it's usually only a little warm at the end of DVD's. For CD's and DVD-A's it's only very slightly warm - not quite as warm as for DVD's. Strange.

I run FR1 and FL1 to the amp for stereo on DVD-A and CD. I use FR2, FL2, and Center for 5.1 DTS/5.1 Dolby.

I leave my 3800 in "Squeeze" mode all the time. In this mode non-anamorphics are automatically pillar-boxed in the middle of my 16X9 display and anamorphics are automatcially full-screened on my 16X9 display. Since some DVD boxes aren't clearly marked whether they are letterboxed or enhanced, the 3800 immediately tells me via this auto-switching it does.

I leave my 3800 in "Audio" mode all the time, which works fine for DVD movies but then allows the 3800 to play DVD-A's with the display off. So .... for a DVD-A I just leave the display off, turn on the amp, slip the DVD-A into the 3800 and press Play - just like for CD's.

I leave the 3800 in Standby all the time so I just walk up to it and load disc's. Also, when left in Standby, you can stop a DVD anywhere and pick up where you left off immediately days or weeks later.

I leave the 3800 in "Darker" mode for everything, as I can't seem to get black detail just right for anamorphics when using "Lighter".

[daddy_guy]

Yes,:D Yes!!!! :DThis is what I want to read...helpful tips from smart owners of the best player out there (for the price anyway)!!! This one question from way back about a refurb player has turned up so much info, I could not be happier! We are so lucky to be able to buy a piece of equipment like this, and get the help from knowledgeable owners who know most of the ins and outs, tricks, hints, etc...and that can help us with our new players set up, etc....
Keep up the great contributions....
I am so impressed, not just with the player and the company that builds it, but with the owners too!!!:D :D

[TonyBP]

Hi Guys!!!
I have a panasonic xp30 and I was considering picking up a 3800.I just wanted some peoples opinoin comparing the 2 models.Thanks for your help......
Tony

[daddy_guy]

Panasonic makes great players....some of Denons past players have been designed around Panasonic players......
but the 3800 is different...way different...it is baby brother to a $3,500.00 player, Denons top of the line DVD9000.....
You can just tell this is supreme quality when you take it out of the box......I have owned just a few players before this one, they were Sony and Toshiba....both fair machines, but felt like little toys compared to this beast.....
I truly feel if you can still find one, you will not be disapointed. You may have to have a few of the fixes done, gotta know that going in, but realize that Denon will make it good. And a good 3800 is better than anything you have ever seen......most likely......unless you check out $5,000.00 players all the time.
My only comparisons with the Panasonic xp30 is that when I started my hunt for a new player, the Panasonic RP82 was what I wanted, but then I found out they were impossible to find, so I thought like you, the xp30 or xp50 are similar players.....but they were getting hard to find...I had checked into Denon, and thought I could not afford such a player. The 1600 was on my list, if I could just find a really good deal (had to be from an authorized seller though).......I came really, really close to getting it, then I saw and read about the 3800....what a beautiful machine, but 1,200.00....ouch!!! Then eCost......449.00 .....
so a little extra cash, and a lot of nerve.......and I made the plunge. Best move in Home Theater upgrades I have ever made. You will not want to pull yourself away from the picture....it is that good. And that is what all of this is about....the quest for the finest picture.....and great sound too......I am totally serious.....so, if you have the cash, the nerve, and can find one, JUMP ON IT!!!!!

[zoro]

How does that compare with 2900, no SACD?

[kbonnel]

Ok, here is the low down on the ecost warranty (in case anybody was interested). I talk with Adam Young at ecost, and he talked with the warranty person for Denon equipment. Adam said that they are still offering the warranty, and does not know why anybody at ecost would have said otherwise. I ordered my 2 year warranty.

Kimo B.

[Michael_V]

I just sent mine in today for a new optical pick-up. Since I live overseas, it is going to be a very long 4-6 weeks. . . .

[heavymetal3001]

Originally posted by heavymetal3001
Add another one to the list of "Just bought the 3800" Inspite of the problems listed here this was just to good to pass up and with ecost being part of border free my taxes and duty coming into Canada are cheap. I went ahead and ordered one from ecost. I can live with the problems but the reports on how they are being packed has me spooked but oh well. I will hope for the best. When I get it I will come back and post on how it holds up against my current player the Sony DVSP 9000ES. The Sony is a nice player but it's not the end all people make it out to be and I want a better picture then what I have now. I hope I made the right call with the Denon!

Also, I have read and re-read this whole thread and if I have it right there are basically 3 issues with this player that need to be fixed right?

So far so good. Ecost has been real good with tracking numbers etc. It looks like I will get it today or tomorrow as the player is already in Canada. So far I fully expect the packing to suck based on what I have read here. Only saving grace with me is mine is not coming via the butchers known as UPS. It's coming via the post office. Believe it or not Canada Post has a good record up here of not damaging stuff so if I'm lucky it should be Ok.

I do have one question for you guys that I'm not clear on. If I do in fact send it to Denon and they change the optical pick-up, do I still need to do the cable length trick to fix the delay or is that problem corrected? Also, I'm roughly 6 feet from my TV, so does that mean I need one cable 6 feet and the other 2 need to be at least 20.........right?

[daddy_guy]

:) My understanding of what will happen in the shop is no, they will only fix the laser assembly problem, or some other major problem you might send it in for. Other problems are fixed easily with a firmware upgrade, for the chroma bug fix, and by using some way to correct the delay problems....longer cables, delay boxes, etc.....you may not even have any problems, or all three of the problems at once with the same machine...(I'm pretty sure...)......gotta give it a good testing out period, or if you're lucky, get a model built after Sept 2002, they are supposedly free of most problems..... Either way, nothing is seriously wrong that can't be easily fixed.......Denon has a 90 day factory warranty on refurbished items, which should give plenty of time for something to screw up if it's going to. I would recommend at least a 1 year extended warranty though.....j.u.s.t. i.n. c.a.s.e.......it's worth it...
I believe the cable length ratio is around 6 ft - 25 ft......not quite sure if it is perfect science though....
do some checking back on the forum and I'm sure you will find exactly what you need from more experienced users...( I just got mine 3 weeks ago, and it's been in the shop for 2 weeks getting a new laser pick-up...had to pay a few bucks for shipping....still not a bad deal) The tough part is missing the player, and its incredible picture....you will be spoiled... )

[heavymetal3001]

Well I got it today. Packed in the factory box. Player is mint to say the least. No dings, scratches.....no nothing. I have already had it running for a few hours without a problem but I'm going to sit down later and watch a movie. I'm not even going to bother checking my firmware etc until tomorrow! I'm also going to do a side by side against my Sony DVSP 9000ES to see how the Denon stacks up!

[zingzing]

Quick question for you guys. Does the tv have to support progressive scan for you to display it in that mode. Because when I try to switch to progscan the picture is split in half and it's all messed up. Could barely make out any picture in progscan mode. Right now I'm using interlacing mode and picture quality is already a lot better than my old sony. And also is all the problems with the 3800 is in proscan mode or it happens in interlaced too.

[Michael_V]

Does the tv have to support progressive scan for you to display it in that mode?

Zingzing,

Absolutely. This is the case with any progressive scan player. Until you get a TV that supports progressive scan, you should leave the 3800 in interlaced mode.

[heavymetal3001]

Originally posted by heavymetal3001
Well I got it today. Packed in the factory box. Player is mint to say the least. No dings, scratches.....no nothing. I have already had it running for a few hours without a problem but I'm going to sit down later and watch a movie. I'm not even going to bother checking my firmware etc until tomorrow! I'm also going to do a side by side against my Sony DVSP 9000ES to see how the Denon stacks up!

Me again. Ok so far so good. Picture is about as good as the Sony DVSP 9000ES and I still have not tweaked the Denon. This is a good sign. Got in 3 movies last night with zero problems. No hot discs, no nothing. Here is the firmware info:

ESS 720 N
DRV 6100
ESS 6134-2
Panel 6093-2

Do I need to update? I'm a little lost as to what version I should be running.

[pixelman]

When I had my 3800, it's firmware was:

ESS 720N
DRV 6193-2
ESS 6134-2
PANEL 6093-2

and Denon Jeff told me that was the latest. Looks like yours needs to be updated.

[heavymetal3001]

Originally posted by pixelman
When I had my 3800, it's firmware was:

ESS 720N
DRV 6193-2
ESS 6134-2
PANEL 6093-2

and Denon Jeff told me that was the latest. Looks like yours needs to be updated.

Thanks! Do I just update the DRV as that seems to be the only one that is off based on what you posted? Is that even possible? This upgrade has me spooked as I have no idea what I'm doing but I will try anything once!

[daddy_guy]

Heavymetal3001,
You might want to check this website, or check the thread in the "special guests" forum with DenonJeff.....
here is an "unofficial"Denon 3800 website-
http://www.geocities.com/denon3800/
might be some info in those places to check the firmware numbers.....it is good to know that these minor problems can be easily fixable. I am getting the firmware upgrade from Denon, just in case I need it, but I am using my eyes to tell me if I have a problem...I will see and know if any of these problems pop up...don't want to get to wrapped up in stressing about versions, serial #, build date, etc. any more. At first I was stressed out too, but as I watched movies, I started to relax...the picture was just so fine already.... Your eyes will tell you if the picture is as good as it should be.....my player had only shown signs of needing the new laser assembly....no other problems appeared to me.....yet.... just a picture that is tweakable to perfection!!!! ;)
Give it at least a week or two of serious playing, just to make sure you are confident it is rock solid. If not, contact Denon, they will treat you right.
No matter what though,
Gotta love this player.........:D :D

[heavymetal3001]

Thanks! I did check the web-site you mentioned and that is what has me confused! lol Apply this with that and that with this etc etc. Made my head spin. I'm going to leave it for now and watch a few more movies. I think I will however have to try the update as the chroma problem was visible when I was watching ICE AGE.

[pixelman]

heavymetal,

You would probably be safest to contact Jeff at Denon about getting a proper upgrade CD. Also, a local Denon dealer may be able to get one for you.

[zoro]

is there a sp website url for 2900/2200

[heavymetal3001]

Originally posted by pixelman
heavymetal,

You would probably be safest to contact Jeff at Denon about getting a proper upgrade CD. Also, a local Denon dealer may be able to get one for you.

Thanks again. Well I called Denon Canada and they want the player. They said better safe then sorry and have marked me down for what they call the 3800 Upgrade. This includes the firmware update and also the optical mechanism and they also do some upgrade on one of the drives. I'm keeping it for the weekend and then it goes out to them first thing Monday.

Seeing as how I have a refurb from Denon does anybody know if there is a way to tell if the optical pick-up has been changed already?

[daddy_guy]

My understanding is that all players with a build date after Sept 2002, automatically had new lasers installed....if not, you should get it all fixed...it was not automatically fixed as a refurb..........
enjoy it for the weekend...you will love it more and more.....
and, you will miss it when its gone...........
I am................should have it back by next week I hope........

[kevinacker]

Well, I decided to return the refurb 3800 and get a refurb 2900, also from Ecost, for $50 more.

Not that anyone in this thread needs more validation on what a great machine the corrected 3800 is, but I must say that:
1) The 3800 picture is slightly better (sharper, a bit more detailed) than the 2900. The 2900 looks great, but the 3800 looks even better.
2) The audio performance through analog outs (particularly redbook CD) of the 3800 is MUCH better than the 2900 - not even close to my ears

I'll probably wind up keeping the 2900 anyway, as I really want SACD capability, and I'll use the very high-quality DACs in my Anthem AVM-20 for CD playback. If the 2900 proves inadequate as a CD transport, I plan to have it modded or just buy a separate transport.

Anyway, for those who don't need SACD, I would jump all over this deal.

[heavymetal3001]

Originally posted by daddy_guy
My understanding is that all players with a build date after Sept 2002, automatically had new lasers installed....if not, you should get it all fixed...it was not automatically fixed as a refurb..........
enjoy it for the weekend...you will love it more and more.....
and, you will miss it when its gone...........
I am................should have it back by next week I hope........

Thanks again! Denon Canada told me that turnaround time from the time they get it will only be 3 to 4 days. Apparently they put a priority on design problems first and regular service comes after. If that is the case I will only be without this thing for one weekend!

[sacarmic]

BTW, I have one set of delay boxes left if anyone is interested. Just pm me.

thanks,
Scott

[sacarmic]

For those of you who have done the firmware upgrades, do you do the chroma fix then apply the multiregion fix? Or does the multi-region include the chroma fix?

Thanks,
Scott

[daddy_guy]

I don't think it is an all inclusive firmware fix....I think the firmware for a multiregion fix is separate from the chroma fix.......that is my understanding.....I will find out more when I get my player back in a few more days.......and see if I get the firmware fix with it, or if it was all done at the factory...still a little confused on whether firmware fix is done at shop.....:confused: hmmmm.....
most important thing though...
it's been two weeks.....
I can not wait to get it back!!!:D

[Marc Alexander]

Originally posted by sacarmic
For those of you who have done the firmware upgrades, do you do the chroma fix then apply the multiregion fix? Or does the multi-region include the chroma fix?

Thanks,
Scott I did chroma then multi-region. I believe my player already had the chroma fix because there was no firmware version change until I finished the multi-region (nor could I spot the bug before flash).

[Edmundo Lopez]

Originally posted by Marc Alexander
I did chroma then multi-region. I believe my player already had the chroma fix because there was no firmware version change until I finished the multi-region (nor could I spot the bug before flash).

So now you have a great player that is region free. Does it convert PAL to NTSC?

[Marc Alexander]

Originally posted by Edmundo Lopez
So now you have a great player that is region free. Does it convert PAL to NTSC? I doubt it converts and I don't plan to try it (call me a scaredy cat). I have a Malata for that!

[daddy_guy]

JUST CURIOUS.........
Where do you get the multi region firmware fix? Direct from Denon? Do most of you have it? Is it worth checking into???
and...
what does ........."nor could I spot the bug until flash" mean???
just can't quite figure that one out.........but I am an old timer......;) :D

[scmguru]

I've got a quick 3800 question.. Is this unit better than the pioneer 47ai? I've got an opportunity to purchase pioneer goods for a super price (read less than dealer cost) and wondered how these two compared.

Thanks

Michael

[Hunter]

Sign me up as another multi-region doubter ...

I have completed all of the available upgrades, including the so-called "multi-region" upgrade. It did NOT provide multi-region playback on my US 3800.

I have exchanged messages with two other people who claim multi-region playback. Both of them reply that they have not actually tried any disc other than Region 1 (USA).

All my research indicates, including JVB, indicates that the multi-region capability is available only from the European 3800 model, which outputs PAL. Can ANYONE who has installed the multi-region firmware on a US player state that actual multi-region playback was achieved?

:(

[daddy_guy]

I have not used the Pioneer 47ai...I looked at it a little when beginning my search for a new DVD Player, liked it alot at first as I have a Pioneer Laserdisc player, and thought Pioneer might make a good DVD Player too. I just went on specs, reviews, forums like this, and alot of thinking, reasoning, etc., and made my decision. It was risky, being a refurb, over the internet, across country by UPS, etc., but Denon has been so good to me about fixes, and unless the Pioneer is built like this tank, I would go for the Denon......in my opinion, this player would be hard to top......
is it me, or is this player really this good? I say it is the best player under $2-3,000.00...............
remember, alot of that has to do with the price I paid for it...a good deal turned out to be the best deal!!! Price has alot to do with what we think is the best for us......
Oh, yeah, what about the multi region question...is it worth looking into????:D

[sacarmic]

For those of you you have successfully done the chroma bug firmware upgrade, did you us both discs included with the archive.

I've tried it on mine, using the instructions in the .zip archive, and it looks as it is doing everything, but when I check the firmware numbers, nothing changes.

Anyone else seen this sort of behavior?

Thanks,
Scott

[Hunter]

"did you us both discs included with the archive."
Yes.

"When I check the firmware numbers, nothing changes. Anyone else seen this sort of behavior?"
Yes.
After I tried the update a second time when the multi-region "capability" did not appear. If nothing changes then it means the player already has the upgrade.

[sacarmic]

Thanks Hunter.

I'm comfused? Shouldn't the numbers match what is listest on the 3800 page for the chroma fix?

It look's as if it still has the chroma bug.

Thanks,
Scott

[pixelman]

FYI: mine did not have the chroma bug with the follow firmware:

ESS 720N
DRV 6193-2
ESS 6134-2
PANEL 6093-2

[sacarmic]

After I ran the discs, the firmware for my machine is:
ESS 626
DRV 6067
ESS 6134
PANEL 6093-2

[pixelman]

Looks like it did not update properly. You should ask Denon Jeff for the disc - he'll send you one for no charge.

[pnichols]

Guys,

I apologize for adding to the confusion, but my 3800 does not have the CUE after updating in August 2002 with a disc from my B&B dealer that they said was directly from Jeff T.

My 3800 data now reads:

DRV 6067
ESS 6134
PANEL 6093-2

Where is that first "ESS" number coming from ..... that one that reads 720N for pixelman and 626 for sacarmic? I never recorded this from my 3800 and maybe this number is the important one, since my other data reads the same as sacarmic's.

[Marc Alexander]

My ESS stayed at 626 until I used the multi-region flash, only then did it move to 720. My unit was manufactured March 2002.

In fact, my unit seemed to already have the chroma fix as the firmware didn't change at all until loading the multi-region.

BEFORE

ESS 626
DRV 6100
ESS 6134
PANEL 6093-2

AFTER
ESS 720, DRV 6100, ESS 34625P, PANEL 6093-2

[pixelman]

Interesting. I never flashed mine -- it came with 720 to start with.

[Marc Alexander]

I'll bet the DRV is related to the DVD transport and is more of a hardware revision.

[Marc Alexander]

Originally posted by sacarmic
After I ran the discs, the firmware for my machine is:
ESS 626
DRV 6067
ESS 6134
PANEL 6093-2 I think it updated properly, you probably didn't need it. DRV won't change I don't think

[heavymetal3001]

Another update. My 3800 is off to Denon. It did in fact start to freeze etc. On Sunday it gave me nothing but trouble. I actually had to power it down a few times to unfreeze it. I will post back when I get it back from Denon Canada.

[daddy_guy]

Funny thing,:D we all seem to have a problem with this player, and we are not complaining (exactly).....:eek:
Like someone said earlier, it seems almost every refurb still has the laser problem.........and will need a fix or two.........
still, for me, worth all the hassle since the price was so good, and the repairs are on Denon...;)
when you think about it, we are lucky to have our "new" players in for an early service run....get it out of the way......checked and triple checked.....
now we can sit back and.................
ENJOY!!!!!
Enjoy a quality player most of us could never afford at retail.....or even "on sale".......this was THE DEAL!!!!!
and one heck of a DVD Player........:D

[heavymetal3001]

Your exactly right! The best part for me is even with the problems my 3800 is having it still has the same picture quality as my much more $$$$$ Sony! I can only imagine how good it will be when everything is fixed up!

:D

[rpgoldberg]

I haven't read this thread at all, but I do have a 3801A (guessing it is very similar to the 3800) and I LOVE that unit!!! I've had it 3 1/2 yrs and I would still buy it again today if I had it all to do over again.

Ross

[daddy_guy]

I thought the 3801 was a receiver, not a DVD player.......I don't know how similar these two are though...
Just a thought about this deal going on.....
In the last 3 years or so DVD player manufacturers seemed to become more and more competitive, trying to keep up with all the fabulous displays, TVs, etc.....building the best beast of a player they could, and seeming to pack top quality parts in a player that won't break the bank. The results were players like Panasonics DVD RP82, Denons DVD3800, and a few others that were almost "overbuilt".....especially for the price......these players are all gone now, and being replaced by lesser quality, but better priced players.....at least as far as Panasonic goes...........Denon seems to still be striving for "perfection"...with a pretty big price tag though...
try to find a Panasonic RP82 now for $200.00 -300.00.....no way.....
So it came down to buying a $450.00 RP82 on eBay, a little iffy, or a $450.00 Denon DVD3800 from an authorized seller.....
We got in on a very rare thing....buying an "overbuilt" player at a really incredible price....
I think we all made the right move!
just been thinking...that's all.....
my 2 cents worth.......

[rpgoldberg]

yeeeeeeeeeeep....my bad....as I mentioned, I hadn't read the thread and when I saw the 3800, I assumed it to be the receiver since my receiver is the 3801A (if I remember correctly). I was indeed referring to the receiver which, of course, has absolutely no relevance whatsoever on a dvd forum....my bad, my bad, my bad!

Can you say stuuuuuuuuuupid?

Anyway, sorry about that. But, if you are looking for a great receiver to buy, I'm sure they've come a long way in 3 1/2 yrs, but I definitely love my Denon and would heartily recommend it (but mine isn't for sale).

As for DVD players, I went for the Bravo for the DVI. Waiting to see if unit #2 does any better than defective unit #1 (unfortunately, failure rate with Bravo D1 seems to be running at least 50%). PQ is phenomenal, but that doesn't do you much good if the thing doesn't work to begin with. It's been a disappointment, but I'm hoping the repl. unit will surprise me.

Ross

[rpgoldberg]

You make a great point too about the "overbuilt" players....yes, my dv-37's progressive is pretty lame compared to the Faroudja chip nowadays, but that dv-37 Elite (Pioneer) is still a tank that is SUPER-reliable and whose image quality in component is barely shy of the DVI output from the Bravo D1. And it works! (BTW, where it's quality is almost as good is 480i using a Faroudja chip such as in the Sammy HLN467W DLP that I just got). The DVI is admittedly a tad bit better---seems more filmlike if that makes any sense, but the dv-37 NEVER lets me down and certainly holds its own.

For a 3 1/2 yr player, I consider that fairly remarkable.

Ross

[daddy_guy]

Pioneer always built in the extra quality with their "Elite" series..I have always been impressed with any piece of Elite equipment...always had that "overbuilt" feeling, rugged pieces of equipment....I wanted the Pioneer DVR-7000, but was way out of my price range, looked at the 47ai too, but still on the pricey side for me......like what I had seen about the Panasonic RP82, but impossible to find......
I had a Sony player, seemed like an OK player, but I wanted more.....
this Denon deal was actually about $100.00-150.00 more than I could afford...wanted to spend maybe $299.00 tops at first......
and I could not find an Elite player in that price range, or the Panasonic.....
but....
More and more I looked hard at the Denon....Is this player really able to compare in many ways with Denons top of the line $3500.00 DVD9000 player?? Could that be true? Then even at $1200.00 it would be a steal, but at a little over $400.00..........
I just had to go for this deal, and figure a way to get this player...I am so happy I did.
It is the champ at any price..........
the definition of "OVERBUILT" in my opinion.....
And for $449.00 from an authorized dealer it is the most amazing thing I have done for my system in a long, long time. I would say go for this deal right now, but your Pioneer Elite DV-37 will probably last you a long time...
Gotta love overbuilt equipment!!!!!:) :D

[daddy_guy]

Well, tonight I received my player back from the Denon Service Dept. I have the Repair Report, and it shows a summary of what was done...a very brief summary....
Problem: intermittent freezing,**5 star** (whatever that means),
Work Performed: checked, tested all functions, upgrade software and hardware,
Parts Used:....it shows nothing...
I am wondering if they always do this...anyone else receive their unit back from the shop for replacement parts, and their Repair Report shows no parts used?? Just a little of the old paranoia popping up...I will give it the "torture test" to make sure the freezing problem is fixed.....hate to even suspect that "nothing" was done...if nothing was found in their tests......would have hoped for a little more thorough Repair Report though.....Anyone else get one like this????:p
just curious, but I am sure glad to get it back...I can't wait to finally hook it ALL up......
yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[pixelman]

daddy guy,

Many people have sent their 3800's in, and Denon has not been able to repeat the problem, so they do not put a new laser assembly in. You'll have to call them up and try to convince them to replace it.

Good luck.

[sacarmic]

Yes,
I had to talk to the tech personally and then to the supervisoer before they would put the new transport in. I called them back after I got to let them know I was blowing smoke and the new pickup worked!!!

Scott

[daddy_guy]

I am still a little unclear........Have any of you actually had to RE-SEND your units BACK for re-servicing because of something like this?? Or am I being overly paranoid? What have others people who have sent in their units for this fix Service Repair Reports said about parts replaced?
Were their Repair Reports similar to mine??:confused:

[sacarmic]

I didn't, but I REALLY recommend calling them when they have it and talking to the tech personally. Helps ease the mind. :)

Scott

[TonyBP]

Hi Guys!!
What test pattern from Avia would I use to see if I have the y/c delay on my unit.
Thx Tony

[sacarmic]

None :), they all have the Y/C delay. It's the chroma bug fix thatsome have and some don't.

[daddy_guy]

I wrote to DenonJeff, and received a pretty vague answer.......he said to give it a good workout this weekend......my one question is: has anyone received their player back from the shop, knowing the laser was replaced, yet the Repair Report shows no parts replaced?? Or, did your Repair Report list the items that were replaced.....must be a paper trail that shows EXACTLY what was done in the shop.......
Anyone??? Help!!!!:confused:

[Aroc]

Has anyone taken the chassis cover off of their DVD-3800? Is the loader just a regular PC DVD-ROM? If it is we may be able to perform a loader swap like the guys have done with their Bravo D1 players. See this AVS thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=284831) for more information.

Also if it is indeed the heat build up (maybe from trying to "read" poor authored DVDs?) that is killing the optical pickups, maybe we could instead try to re-engineer player since Denon can't or won't. Maybe we could stategistically install a couple massive heatsinks or perhaps a large, quiet fan to remove the heat from the player? I like the heatsink idea the best because 1. it's quiet and 2. it adds weight to the player. And we all buy buy our hi-fi by weight, right? ;)

I'm just thinking out loud here.

[Aroc]

By "we" I do not mean to infer that I own a Denon DVD-3800. Because in fact I do not.

[TonyBP]

OK...They all have the y/c delay.But what test pattern would I use to see what it is on Avia.Just tryin to learn what you professionals are talking about/lol.Thanks for all your help!!!
Tony

[Hein]

Originally posted by daddy_guy
I am still a little unclear........Have any of you actually had to RE-SEND your units BACK for re-servicing because of something like this?? Or am I being overly paranoid? What have others people who have sent in their units for this fix Service Repair Reports said about parts replaced?
Were their Repair Reports similar to mine??:confused:

Hi daddy_guy,

Sorry to say, but I had to send my unit (DVD 3800) 2 times to TRANSTEL-SABIMA. (Belgium import and repair center for denon).

First time, they changed the units mainbord. Part number GU3389A.
When I received my unit back after 2 weeks, freezing was still not gone, it got even worse. Back to my dealer again.:mad:

Second time, they changed again the mainbord GU3389A, and traverse unit (laser pick-up) 9KC2A074B. Player was 2 months at TRANSTEL-SABIMA because they had no replacement laser pick-up. It must come from Japan.

Now, everything seems to be ok, player has the latest firmware.
ESS A30N, DRV 6193-2, ESS 6134-4, Panel 6093-2.


Hein.

[nakenergy]

well the y/c delay can also be corrected according to Denon Jeff -

nakenergy,

Yes we do have a mod for the chroma delay in the 3800. It requires you to contact our CA office to send in the unit. Call 310-974-1010, ext 214 to get it rolling.

Regards,


__________________
Jeff Talmadge
Marketing and Product Manager
DENON Electronics (USA), Inc.

[andr3wpd]

Will the Y/C Delay be visible on a 36" direct view HDTV?

Andrew

[daddy_guy]

Just wanted to report that I have heard back from DenonJeff and the shop in Calif. about my repairs. Everything was fixed, upgraded, and replaced from what I understand.....
interesting that DenonJeff would say there is a fix for the Y/C delay now....I had never heard anything about this mod before now......wonder if mine was fixed??? More investigating needed.....
But I must admit that Denon reponded quickly, and with the right answers...... when I needed them the most.......good job!!! :cool:
Now....
To start hooking everything back up........
"official testing" starts tonight........:D

[sacarmic]

Wait a minute???? What exactly is the y/c delay fix?

Scott

[daddy_guy]

No one knows what the "Y/C Fix" is......DenonJeff just happened to mention it in another forum for the first time yesterday, I think.....said it is a hardware and firmware fix....your delay boxes acomplish the same fix if I'm not mistaken....or the different cable lengths........
Y/C delay, chroma bug, CUE,.....I'm confused too.........
so, there is a "new" fix according to DenonJeff for the Y/C delay, and a firmware fix already available for the CUE(chroma fix)
I think thats it...............:confused:

[heavymetal3001]

Originally posted by daddy_guy
No one knows what the "Y/C Fix" is......DenonJeff just happened to mention it in another forum for the first time yesterday, I think.....said it is a hardware and firmware fix....your delay boxes acomplish the same fix if I'm not mistaken....or the different cable lengths........
Y/C delay, chroma bug, CUE,.....I'm confused too.........
so, there is a "new" fix according to DenonJeff for the Y/C delay, and a firmware fix already available for the CUE(chroma fix)
I think thats it...............:confused:

So, how is your 3800 now anyway? What have you seen so far? Anything better etc etc?

[daddy_guy]

Just got it back on Friday...have been rearranging my system, and don't have everything hooked up yet..I am hoping to get it all set up today, for some serious "Sunday Night at the Movies" action......
I am re-doing so much, I hope I can get it all acomplished today...plus, I am not as bright, smart, or agile as I used to be.... I am also just getting used to wearing glasses...(getting old overnight!!!), so it is a little tougher in that regard too.....I will certainly report back, just as I wish others will do about their players as time goes on.....need to keep in touch with the owners of the best machine out there.....it's like an exclusive club, with members that got lucky enough to discover this player.....;)
I am certainly hoping for the best.......and that everything is fixed and ready to be planted on the shelves and not moved for ......years!!!! That is what I am hoping for.....
I am ready for the 21st century!!!!
WOW!!!!:D
Oh yeah, I bet DenonJeff is gonna regret saying there is a new fix for the Y/C delay problem......eveyone is gonna want that fix, and if it is a hardware and firmware fix, better hurry and send in your player......

[andr3wpd]

I just ordered one of the last 3800's from eCOST based on this thread and other great reviews. I had a 2800 that was freezing up so I'll soon know if mine suffers from that. What doesl the Y/C delay look like? Will I even notice it on a 36" HDTV direct view set?

Has anyone figured out if the widely available multi-region firmware actually works?

Andrew

[pnichols]

The notorious heating problem on 3800's is a strange animal. My 3800 ran hot for a few weeks when is was new (14 months ago) then cooled down. My 3800, CD's, and DVD's are now just warm after playing for a couple of hours. Mine does not skip on DVD's either ......... I THINK the two things are related but Denon has never admitted that heat => skip!

A Denon Y/C Delay tweak for current owners????!!!!! It's about time. But I don't know if I want to send my unit in or not and have someone tear into it. I sure WISH the Y/C Delay fix was only a firmware update CD, but I don't anticipate that it's going to be that simple.

[Marc Alexander]

Guys, it appears my Ecost 3800 already has the Y/C fix! :cool:

I already use some custom cables because of Y/C error in my Mits. I had been using the 3800 with some standard 6' cables and last night decided to start on the custom cables for the 3800. I was testing with combinations of 6', 10' and 25' cables. Low and behold, I came out with the same lengths I already had.

I'm still testing (my sharpness is down to -4 right now), because I am seeing some strange artifacts on menu highlights (anyone else notice anything?). I need to finish touching up geometry and convergence since I had to redo overscan to compensate for the pixel cropping.

[daddy_guy]

With all the fixes available.....different size cables, delay boxes, etc..I wondered if I should go for the Denon "mod".......DenonJeff just told me that the solutions we are using now will work just as well as the "mod" from Denon......in fact it must be some kind of delay modification at the output anyway..he said don't send it in just for that, especially if you already have a good solution....:D

[GCS]

Well I finally got my arse and decided to get in on this deal. I look forward to getting this in a few days and checking it out on my 119" Diagonal Dalite CinemaVision screen with my HT1000.

I hope to be very impressed as I have been unimpressed with everything I have tried out for the last 6 months when my CP72 died (and I wasn't really happy with it either). I am giving up the changer capabilities (which I know I will regret later) but hopefully a much better quality DVD player.

I opted for the 2 year service plan as well, however like all others I had to call and add this on because it disappeared right at the end. $500 for the 3800 including the warranty and shipping. Not to bad for something that was what 1K about 6 months ago??

Anyway I will post my opinions/results once I get it.

Thanks for alerting a fella on the bargain ;) .

Greg

[daddy_guy]

VERY SMART MOVE!!!!;)
Hopefully you have read this whole thread (you should, it is very informative) and realize that your player will probably have to go in to the shop for an upgrade (unless built after Aug 2002)......it is a small hassle and price to pay for such a great player, and if you think about it....you will have a player that will be triple checked....and be better than new!!.......
Especially now with the Y/C delay fix available.......
Refurbs can be really cool.......
And incredible deals...especially if bought from a factory authorized seller.....
Denon does stand behind their products, and actually seem to care about the customer...
Without a doubt you would be hard pressed to find a better player....period...
Let alone one that costs under $500.00......!!!!
You will be impressed with this players performance......very, very impressed!!!:D :D
THIS IS STILL THE BEST DEAL GOING!!!!!!!:cool:

[zoro]

Thats what happen, when u buy a great expensive player from DENON..

[Marc Alexander]

Well folks, it appears that the Denon Y/C fix causes the on screen displays to now exhibit Y/C issues. The on screen images and player generated icon highlights have noticeable bleed depending on the background image.

I'll try and post some pics sometime next week.

Now that I know the movie PQ is perfect, I'm not so bothered by the OSD. Now I've just got to pray my pickup doesn't freeze. I'll be installing a fan soon as a precaution.

[andr3wpd]

Marc

I took the plunge too with a 3800 from eCost. I am keenly awaiting mine. Did you have to send in your player for the chroma bug or was that fixed too out-the-box?

Andrew

[Marc Alexander]

Mine was fixed OOTB. It is also easily flashable if you have a CD-R, http://www.geocities.com/denon3800/

[ZICK]

Hello Folks
My serviced 3800 arrived Tues and I was NOT happy then the unit did not respond to the remote AGAIN. I removed the front panel and tighted the connectors, then it worked. Tech missed it.
I played "5th Element" and I was impressed with the sound and the P.Q.
I saw no green intermittent scan lines. Color was fabulous, skin tones really good, blacks were very good. No video noise!
Then I watch Gone with the Wind ($5.99 at WalMart) the whole thing and the DVD was NOT hot!
I'm now going to watch some new DVDs
WHAT A GREAT DEAL!!!
Thanks to daddy_guy and all of you for your help and insight!
Zick

[ZICK]

Originally posted by daddy_guy
Oh yeah, I bet DenonJeff is gonna regret saying there is a new fix for the Y/C delay problem......everyone is gonna want that fix, and if it is a hardware and firmware fix, better hurry and send in your player...... [/B]
Even though this is a "Denon problem", I hope that after 90 days, they still honor it beyond the warranty period. I suspect they will not. due to cost.
My demo 2003 PE 730 will not be replaced with a 2004 model until the 1st of Nov. Then I will know for sure that the 3800 is OK and it's not the RPTV. I found some more problems, last night, with my Pioneer.

Does anyone know if the unit comes back "not repaired" (call back) that Denon will pay the return shipping? As I mentioned about my non-responsive remote, I don't feel I should be responsible for this cost should it continue.

[opers13]

I guess I got the last Denon 3800 from eCost.....

Alex

[daddy_guy]

Zick,
Somehow I feel Denon will take care of your problem...they really seem to be a company that stands behind their products, and have pride in making them work as they should. I truly believe that.
I also think they might be persuaded to do the "mod" for you, or why else would they have cooked up something like a new mod for an old problem now...at this point in time......
and for an original factory fault.............hhmmmmm......
Either way, feel lucky to have a player that is built rock solid, has every fix known to man available, has a picture (and, as I get more and more used to it, a sound) that is a.w.e.s.o.m.e!!!!! And remember, this player is still a close (very close) baby brother to the DVD9000, Denons very best, most expensive, quality ooozing, top of the line, hard to match, DVD player.......whew!!!!!!;) :p
and, I knew someone would be reporting that they got the "last" 3800 from wherever....time is a runnin' out!!!
Make up your mind already!!!!:D

[GCS]

I knew someone would be reporting that they got the "last" 3800 from wherever....time is a runnin' out!!!

Yep these f***ers at ecost really ticked me off this week.

I ordered my 3800 on Tuesday and like everyone else my warranty got dropped when I got confirmation. I called to add and the guy was a complete bonehead but said it was all straight.

2 days later the order had been on "hold for a quote" so I called to find out what was up. Somehow the order got held instead of processed because the CSR couldn't get the warranty straight. So 10 minutes on the phone yesterday and its all fixed and the order will be shipped that afternoon and that they would overnight it for me because of their mistake. I am thinking AWESOME I was hoping to get it for the weekend!!

Last night I get an email telling me it is now backordered and they have no idea when it they will get any. After a call this morning their CSR stated they are out of their supply of them and have no plans of getting more anytime soon. :mad: This makes me so mad because it was in stock and ready to go on Tuesday when I ordered and now because of their screw up it looks like I won't be getting one.

Its back to the drawing board now. Heck if they had a 2900 I would take that but the only thing near the 3800's quality that they do have in stockl is the 9000 and somehow I doubt they would be willing to sell that one for the price of the 3800!

Anyone know how the 2800MKII compares to the 3800??

Greg

[andr3wpd]

Avoid the 2800's and 2800MKII's - no chroma bug fix. I returned a 2800 because of physical damage, but truthfully I would have lived with that if it didn't have issues such as audio dropouts, bad chroma bugs, wierdness with Disney animations plus it has an awful remote, can not be modded to be multi-region with firmware and no access to setup screens while a DVD is playing.

The 3800 is unbelievable. I would wait a little and see if they get some more. I bet the CSR's do not know what they are going to be getting. People return stuff all the time and it funnels down to the refurb houses.

Other options: How about looking for a 1600 for around $300 or even going a bit higher to squeeze into a 2200?

[zoro]

2200..is ok, video wise, not as good as dcdi chip..in 1600

[GCS]

Well I just spent about 45 minutes on the phone with the supervisor essentially telling me that I am full of it, ie ordering on Tuesday and it was in stock and because the warranty issue and my order being put on hold that I missed out.

He stated that ecost was no longer going to carry the 3800 and once they sell off the 4800s and 2800s they have in stock they would not carry them either.

Basically the best they would offer me was the DVD-9000 for $1495. While it would be nice to have the $500 for the 3800 was hard enough to swallow!

Actually I had a nice conversation a few minutes ago with my ONE & ONLY Denon dealer here in Richmond. He was very candid about the Denon models and LOVED(S) the 3800. As he stated "the 3800 is a TRUE Tour-de-force as far as DVD players goes, you could easily put the 3800 with a $10,000 video setup or a $2,000 video setup .... its that good." He is also pretty high on the 2900 but I just don't think I can his pricing on it to a level I can afford (naturally he gets list for just about everything since his only competition is about 100+ miles from here).

Anyway thats my saga but no since crying over spilt milk (or lost deals). To those who got in on the deal congrats and enjoy!!

Greg

[GCS]

I should also add that in no way would I pay $300+ for the 1600. You cannot sell me on that product being worth that kind of price, particularly when there are other options.

And before the 1600 fans bash me .... YES I have seen and used the 1600 in my home for a period of time. It is nice but NOT worth the $300+ asking IMHO.

P.S. -- Sorry to get off track!

Thanks for listening.

Greg

[opers13]

GCS,

that's soooo weird!!! I ordered my 3800 Thursday morning and it shipped out Thursday night (yesterday)......not sure what they did to your order.....sorry

[daddy_guy]

I kinda did a quick check, and yep, they are getting hard to find. Dakmart had them for $589.00 w/ 1 year warranty I believe...........I would pick it up quick though......it is worth $600.00, especially with a 1 yr warranty........Heck, it is worth $1000.00......I am serious.......:)

[GCS]

I know but the suck a$$ part is that I was paying less than dakmart's price with a 2 year extended warranty from ecost.

opers -- its not your fault. The butthead dealing with my warranty on Tuesday is the one who f'ed the order. I should have ordered the it by itself and then called after I got it for the extended warranty.

Oh well live and learn I guess.

Thanks

Greg

[andr3wpd]

If you're quick:

http://cgi.*********/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3051432391&category=50600

[andr3wpd]

If you're quick:

eBay search for denon 3800... one for sale region fee for $399 w/ warranty

[GCS]

Well I gave in!!

Picked up a 2900 last night locally. I watched about 1 whole movie (The Italian Job) and several snippets of other movies and I have to admit I am quite impressed with the performance. Even though the extra $300 is gonna kill me, I have to say that its living up to the hype I have been seeing.

The only thing the 2900 is lacking that I want is the DVI out. Which is why I may feel forced to move to the 5900 (uggh another $1,000 ..... nevermind).

Greg

[daddy_guy]

I'm not too familiar with the 2900, but I bet you are impressed with the build quality of the Denon too....most players nowadays are kinda cheap, plastic feeling "toys"........ the Denon 3800 is far from what you would consider a "toy".....that's one of the reasons I am so crazy about this equipment. Is the 2900 the same??? Denon does something right when building their DVD players, thats for sure!!! You can actually feel the difference!!!!
COOL!!! Another Denon convert!!:D
I think alot of us would like to move up to the 5900, but way too pricey still.......and would we get a better picture that is actually worth well over an extra $1000.00........I doubt it!!!!!;)
gotta love the 5900 though too........
Denon kicks butt when it comes to DVD players!!!!
Period!

[GCS]

I think alot of us would like to move up to the 5900, but way too pricey still.......and would we get a better picture that is actually worth well over an extra $1000.00........I doubt it!!!!!

Agreed. This is why you won't see one in my house anytime soon unless a miracle happens.

Most likely if I shell out money for another DVD player before we get HD-DVD it will be for a cheap refurb/used 5900.

I have had Denon gear before in the past and have definitely appreciated their build quality, but wish it was cheaper.

The 2900 is definitely a solidly built machine. One of the pet peeves I have about DVD players is how the DVD sits in the tray. Most players (certainly the "cheap" ones) the DVDs have "wiggle room" whereas placing a DVD in the tray of the 2900 is solid, no wiggle. Makes me feel as if the disc is in there solid and stable.

Anyway hope to spend some time later this weekend messing with the SACD and DVDA playback on the 2900. All in all I would have preferred to pay less and get the 3800 but I defintely don't see the 2900 leaving the rack anytime soon.

Thanks to all.

Greg

[heavymetal3001]

Hi guys. Just wanted to let everybody know what is up here in Canada. I got a call from Denon Canada letting me know that they got my 3800 but will not honour the ecost warranty as it's for the US only! To the other Canucks who have posted that Denon Canada fixed there's under warranty, please tell me how you did it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Denon Canada told me they can't be tricked with bogus invoices or anything like that as it's all based on the serial number or something. Basically they know where it came from regardless of what you tell them.

They did say they would forward it to Denon US on my behalf and it would be covered but they said Denon US would fix what was wrong with it and nothing else. If nothing showed up when they had it, nothing would be done to it. unless you got on the phone and ragged them and even then it was a 50/50 shot.................but........................get this, they said if I paid for the Upgrade I actually get more. I get the new optical which is in fact from the 9000! Apparently they don't always do this but mine is getting it. It's based on stock levels of there parts that decide what you get. Anyway, in total I get a new optical from the 9000 and are you ready for this, a total of 19 other part changes! Man I knew there was a few fixes they did on these but 19? The lady I spoke to said that by the time there done my 3800 will be so close to the 9000 it will be scary!.........and that comment came from a Denon employee!

To make a long story short I agreed to pay a little over $250.00 Canadian for all the work. Best part is that Denon now will give me a one year warranty on the player after this! Once I converted funds I would have paid almost $100.00 Canadian for the ecost warranty so I'm happy all around. I will post back when I get it back and if they include a detailed service report I will post what they did so you all have a reference point.

[TonyBP]

I just got off the phone with Denon(USA) and they said that the upgrade is covered under warranty.That you could pay for it if it was out of warranty.That was with the new optical and y/c delay.Not sure what else might be included.They have had mine since last wednesday and said it should ship this week.
Tony

[daddy_guy]

I can't believe it! 19 total parts and fixes (upgrades?) done if you pay for it, and an unknown amount of fixes under warranty. Very interesting....I certainly hope they list all 19 repairs...I would certainly love to see that report! And I might consider paying for all of the fixes if the are all "upgrades".....that what it sounds like......
My point is, are they "fixes", or "upgrades"? Would make a big difference to me...fixes are one thing, but upgrades........from the factory......sign me up!!!!
My service report was pretty vague on what was done......I had to call to verify what was fixed.....
player is working like a champ though now......
I think my laser pick up came from a 9000 too..........I had heard they had run out of pick ups for the 3800 a while ago..........please report back with the news on repairs........
Sound like you are getting a good deal, especially with the "extended" warranty they are giving you. Probably way better than the eCost warranty anyway......Good move!!! I love this player!! And, I love that it has re-ignighted the excitement of watching movies and listening to music again......man, what a difference!!!! LOVE THE DVD3800!!!!!!!:D

[opers13]

I just received the beast!!! It looks brand new
It's built on September 2002...

Should all problems been fixed after Sep. 2002??

[daddy_guy]

Funny, I think most of our "refurbs" looked brand new too...mine did...no flaws, dings, dents, scratches.....looked perfect.......makes you wonder.......hhmmm....
Just dug out my notes:eek:......serial numbers beginning with 210...... have the corrected laser....I was told some late build Sept models had it too...but how do you know if it's a late or early Sept build?? So in answer to you question, you are in never, never land...you will just have to wait and see.....
watch lots of movies for a few weeks..it will be easy...you will be so amazed at the pictures and sounds..........if you have a problem, it will show......good luck, and hope you agree that the picture this player puts out is about as good as you'll ever get!!! A true beast!!!!
(and worth any hassle that may come up...);)

[Blocktrader]

I got this player a few weeks ago, thanks to this thread. So far I have been very happy with it. I want to make sure I wont have problems down the road though. It is in my bedroom, and I have only been able to watch 4 or 5 DVD's on it. The disks not coming out any hotter than any other player. According to my Avia disk, Y/C is fine. I have had no permanent freezes. The only thing that has happened is, during one movie, there was a two pauses about the lenght of a slow layer change. They were not the layer change (it had already happened and BTW was as fast as I've seen on a set top player) but I am not certain it wasn't just dust or something. What are the signs of the freezing that is talked about here? Also, is there a particular disk or disks that will bring this out? Thanks, Mike.

[daddy_guy]

From my brief experience with this player, I played lots and lots (10-20) movies, over and over again (per DenonJeffs instructions)...discs were extremely hot, and after about a week of intense playing I noticed my first "freeze".....it started to freeze (pause a few seconds) and it was totally random. It wasn't a total freeze, lock up type of thing....just random freezing (pauses) for anywhere from 2-5 seconds........at least for me....dirty discs certainly won't help.....they can always be a problem.....If you notice any freezing (pauses), you will probably need the fix...unless build date is 210....... or after.....keep your eyes glued to the set for a while longer...you have at least 90 days from Denon...that should be plenty of time to tell....
I am hoping you still think the player is a steal though, with one of the best pictures you will ever see....at almost any price.
I know that my new laser pick up doesn't "heat up" the discs like before.....they are warm after lots of playing, but not really, really hot like they used to be....:)
great player, and great sonically too.......this player does it all (except SACD)...but I think DVD's hold the future for movies and music, not CD's, so no great loss. Gotta support DVD-Audio though...........
DVD-Audio is only in its infancy and it is awesome!!!!

[andr3wpd]

opers13,

There are a few ways to know if yours is fixed.

a) Look visually for the chroma-bug. I immediately ran AVIA and saw slight bugs on the stars and stripes footage but I have not seen it show up in movies that typically showed it real bad - i .e. the Monsters, Inc scene where Mike and Sully are walking by the red car. The front of the car looks like it is made of corduroy with players with the bug and it is fine with the Denon 3800.

b) Check firmware version. Instructions for doing this are:
1. Power the unit off.

2. While pressing together the "Play" and "Open/Close" buttons, press "Power".

3. In the display you will see the Play and Pause symbols.

4. Now, using the remote control, press the "Display" button. Pressing DISPLAY on the
remote will show the ESS version.

4. Now, using the remote control, press the "Menu" button. With each press of the button,
you will scroll thru the different versions of the the unit. First is the "DRV", followed
by the "ESS" and finally the "Panel".

Using the front panel button, power the unit off to return to normal operation.

With the following firmware I was chroma-bug "improved":
Firmware is at:
ESS: 626
DRV: 6067
ESS: 6134
PANEL: 6093-2

Then I installled the multi-region firmware and can now play all region disks too! :)

c) Watch lots of movies and see if it freezes up as daddy_guy suggests. I am yet to see a freeze but have only had the player a week. Probably watched 10 or so movies all the way thru, my wife and kids have had it spinning all day everyday watching disney stuff and so far so good. I will say the disks come out REALLY super hot but that is supposed to cool down. I am hoping nothing shows up wrong with mine since I do not want to entrust it into the hands of UPS.

d) Look for the YC Delay but the thing is I do not even know what that would look like and no one has been able to tell me what the symptoms are and how to look for them! As I understand it if the YC delay is fixed it makes detail stand out even more, well I am very happy with the PQ on my 36" Panny Tau and can not see how detail could be better but in the next year I plan on investing in a Digital Projector and would be pissed to see it show up then. So if anyone can tell us what slight traces of YC delay evidence to look for in AVIA I think we would all be grateful!

Good luck
Andrew

[opers13]

andr3wpd and daddy_guy

thank you for this wealth of info!
so far only watched one movie....(The Red Sox been playing almost every night) but this weekend I'm hoping to watch a few dvds. Hopefuly it will be fine....If not I will call Denon.
When I bought the player I was expecting it to have problems.....lets see what happens.

thank you all again

[heavymetal3001]

Originally posted by daddy_guy
I can't believe it! 19 total parts and fixes (upgrades?) done if you pay for it, and an unknown amount of fixes under warranty. Very interesting....I certainly hope they list all 19 repairs...I would certainly love to see that report! And I might consider paying for all of the fixes if the are all "upgrades".....that what it sounds like......
My point is, are they "fixes", or "upgrades"? Would make a big difference to me...fixes are one thing, but upgrades........from the factory......sign me up!!!!
My service report was pretty vague on what was done......I had to call to verify what was fixed.....
player is working like a champ though now......
I think my laser pick up came from a 9000 too..........I had heard they had run out of pick ups for the 3800 a while ago..........please report back with the news on repairs........
Sound like you are getting a good deal, especially with the "extended" warranty they are giving you. Probably way better than the eCost warranty anyway......Good move!!! I love this player!! And, I love that it has re-ignighted the excitement of watching movies and listening to music again......man, what a difference!!!! LOVE THE DVD3800!!!!!!!:D

When I get it back I will for sure post and let you know. Seeing as how I'm paying for it I'm sure I will get a detailed report on what was done. I know that when stuff gets done under warranty they are not very specific on what was done but I would tend to think that when somebody is paying for it they will list what was done etc. Anyway, I will let you know. I talked to Denon and my player should be done this Friday and I should get it back the end of next week. I also asked the person who picked up the phone if it was in fact a total of 19 fixes and this guy said the same thing the lady did, 19 fixes in total. Denon will have had it for almost 3 weeks but I don't mind. I would much rather have them take there time then rush it out and me have to send it back to them again!

[Marc Alexander]

Originally posted by andr3wpd
d) Look for the YC Delay but the thing is I do not even know what that would look like and no one has been able to tell me what the symptoms are and how to look for them! As I understand it if the YC delay is fixed it makes detail stand out even more, well I am very happy with the PQ on my 36" Panny Tau and can not see how detail could be better but in the next year I plan on investing in a Digital Projector and would be pissed to see it show up then. So if anyone can tell us what slight traces of YC delay evidence to look for in AVIA I think we would all be grateful! Just go to SPECIAL TESTS...there is a good description how to use the test pattern built into AVIA.

[kagato]

I've run into the the skipping/freezing problem. Pretty easy to reproduce. Are people able to use their local repair shop, or do you need to send it somewhere?

[daddy_guy]

Depends....if it is under warranty, definitely send to Denon...if not, it is up to you.
Personally, I would send to Denon anyway.......
so, still under warranty? Then send to Denon for sure.......and be very specific about problems with service techs.........
shoot, I would check into the 19 fixes/upgrades while I'm at it......

[kagato]

The local repair shop in question is listed on Denon's page as a Warranty Repair center on Denon's home page. So really the question is will Denon's authorized centers do as well as directly sending it. I like the idea of being able to bring some of the DVDs that the problem reproduces on in with me if they give me any pushback.

[Marc Alexander]

Send it in. Factory authorized service is ok for your toaster. Sucks for mid and hi fi electronics.

[daddy_guy]

Just checking in....had my 3800 back from the factory for about 3 weeks now, and thought I would give an update.....
I have been watching lots of movies (old and new) and listening to lots of music (DVD-Audio, CD's, HDCD's)......the 3800 is still very impressive......haven't had any problems, and I have given it a pretty good workout. This player does its job so well, both visually and sonically.....
Just curious if others are doing OK too, and enjoying their new players......:)
I sure hope so..........;)

[opers13]

My player is going out to Denon next week.....

[kagato]

I don't get Denon. They had all these units in a ware house at one time. Why not fix the laser pickups then while you have them all in one place. It only took me a few weeks to find DVDs that have the freezing and stuttering problem. It's just going to cost them more now in shipping and handling charges to fix the problem.

The question is really does Denon know if the known issues have been fixed. I'd be leary of buying Denon again if some bean counter knew there were problems and decided to send them out hoping no one would notice until the end of the warranty.

[srp]

Originally posted by kagato
I don't get Denon. They had all these units in a ware house at one time. Why not fix the laser pickups then while you have them all in one place.

It's been stated that only something like 2% of the players out there have a problem that would benefit from a laser replacement. There's been plenty of reports of people with original lasers not having skipping/freezing troubles.

If that number is accurate, it would be very expensive for Denon to automatically replace lasers in every unit that they still have control over.

I WOULD expect they'd make sure the firmware is current tho.

[andr3wpd]

Does anyone know if the 3800 can read DVD+R and DVD+RW?

[Jasonjo]

Check out:

http://www.dvdrhelp.com/dvdplayers.php?DVDnameid=1184&Search=Search&#comments

JJ

[mrpergo]

Well I've been following this thread since day one because my Panasonic cp-72 went error code H07 then H02 after 7 months.I sent my player in to the Panny service center for repair,in the mean time I kept following this thread and going back and forth to the Ecost websight.Should I or shouldn't I:confused:
While my panny was in the shop I bought the Pioneer 563a which is very nice but a softer picture then the cp-72.Then my panny came back but it wasn't a cp-72 it was a F65 piece of crap.I called them and the sent me an RA which took a week.I sent the F65 back which took a week then yesterday I recieved the cp-72.It's around freezing up here in New York so I waited till this morning to hook the player up.Guess what, nothing worked.It powered up but that was it.Long story short I got on the phone with Panasonic at customer care and they decided to give me a full refund for the player $230.00 plus the 90.00 for the repair so I just ordered the Denon 3800 from Dakmart for 589.00 with a 1yr warranty.:D
I'm glad to finally be a member of this elite club instead of sitting here wondering should I or shouldn't I.
Thanks for all the info people:D

[daddy_guy]

I would pay $589.00 for this player, and still believe I got a bargain!! A one year warranty is extra good, because if these things have a problem, they usually show up within weeks or months at the latest, so you are well covered. This player is so good...you will finally see what an "overbuilt" player is like.....I never knew........
I still believe there are very few players that can best this player.....very few!.....
And at this price??? NONE!!!!
Good job, and good luck!! Please, let us know what you think after you unbox it and get it plugged in.........:D

[mrpergo]

heavymetal3001;
I was wondering if you got your unit back from Denon after the upgrade repair and if its some how identified that it had these update repairs.Such as a sticker saying updated 10/25/03 at denon,upgrade repair code bla bla bla.
The reason I'm asking is I order a 3800 from Dakmart which states it is B stock w/upgrade and 1 yr Denon warranty.I Email Dakmart using the information you posted about the 19 updates or fixes in the update repair and then Denon gives you a 1 yr warranty and do their units have this update repair & is the warranty a 1yr Denon warranty.They replied promtly and told me the units had the newest firmware updates and answered yes to my question regarding the repair update with the Denon 1 yr warranty.
So I was wondering if there is a way to identify this upgrade other then just putting it through its paces.
Thanks;mrpergo

I'm getting anxious and this machine won't even ship till Monday.I just hope I have for the release of NEMO:D

[epiney]

I received my player back from Denon a few weeks ago. New optical pick-up and updated firmware. Everything looks and sounds great.

My thanks to daddy_guy for starting this thread. I would have never ordered this player without it.

If anyone's interested e-cost has them back in stock at $439

[daddy_guy]

:D :D I have had mine back from the shop for about a month or so now...I am still constantly amazed at the quality of the picture, but as I get more and more used to it, the suprising thing is the quality of the sound too......an amazingly fine player for both video and audio
Movie sountracks, CD's, DVD-Audio, DTS Audio, HDCD...........wow! I think this is an extra fine audio player too as I use it more over time. Denon definitely put together a solid player with the 3800.......
Glad to hear from someone.....it has been a while...anyone else???? Everyone still happy? :p
I am amazed, but eCost still has some ....for $440.............
Unless you are going to get the new 5900, which is about 4-5 times more expensive, take a look at this player.........especially if you really just want the best video/audio player for the price out there.......(sorry, no SACD), but hey, why not get a Sony or Philips SACD player for a few hundred dollars - or less (like I plan too), rather than chucking this player for a universal player like the 2900........if I had thousands to spend, I would go for the 5900, but that is out of my range for now.......I still wonder which format will come out on top anyway at this point...it looks like SACD is pulling ahead...hard to figure, cause DVD's seem to hold more potential.........anyway, it is one of those things that will take a while to sort out.....but at least we know we have the player when it comes to watching DVDs.....especially at this price......DVD-Audio? SACD?? Still working that one out.......But for movies.....and great sounds.....ya can't go wrong!
just my opinion.......;) ;)

[mrpergo]

I just got mine yesterday:D
I must say its quite a piece of equipment.The picture is stunning at factory default.I just did the rough setup yesterday and will run it through Avia and the new DVE Sunday morning.
I bought it from Dakmart.They listed it as a Denon DVD 3800 B stock w/upgrade and a 1yr.Denon warranty.I Emailed them to ask if the upgrade was the 19 repairs/upgrades that someone else mentioned in this thread that if you had the upgrades/repairs done by Denon that when they returned your unit it would have a 1 yr.warranty and they replied yes that this was an upgraded unit.I wish there was some way to tell.
I did check the firmware but I don't know if its the newest of not.
ESS:408
DRV:6067
ESS:6094
PANEL:6093
I guess I'll have to research and find out.
Finding Nemo looks absolutly STELLER:D
Thanks for the heads up on this unit

[daddy_guy]

When I got my player back from the shop, I am pretty sure they did all the firmware updates too, but DenonJeff sent me a firmware update package anyway...I am wondering now if I should check, because your numbers(which, according to Dakmart should be "updated") don't match up with mine, or what the paperwork included with firmware said mine should read if corrected...
my paperwork says for the DVD3800 - DRV-XXXX / ESS 6134 / PANEL 6093-2
This stuff is all confusing to me, but I am having no problems, picture is perfect, and I feel why mess with something that aint broken............
I have read elsewhere that the correct numbers are:
ESS- 720N / DRV- 6193-2 / ESS- 6134-2 / PANEL- 6093-2...
it is all so confusing..:confused:....that's why I haven't messed with it ....yet....
like I said, if your player is performing flawlessly in your eyes, don't bother with it....I didn't..............:D
The one thing you need to know is whether the laser pick-up is working properly.....everyone has said to give it a good workout for a few weeks or so....put it through its paces...play movie after movie (at night, I put a movie on repeat, just to really give it a workout...).....if you start to see "freezing" alot, then it needs a trip to the shop.......
Actually,
Your best bet would be to PM Denon Jeff for more help (that will be the most accurate info...and he is really helpful)
Love this player though...makes it a joy to play and tweak with my equipment again!!!!:D
My only other advice is to read the manual, and all the extra paperwork about tweaks, set up, pure direct mode....all of it......it really helps with enjoying your player to its upmost!!!
I'm still learning.......:)

[mrpergo]

daddy_guy,
These numbers are very confusing because all the searching I've done none of the firmware numbers are like mine.Everyone seems to have a -2 at the end, mine doesn't have a -2 after anything.I Emailed Denon tech support with my numbers and serial number in hopes that they could shed some light on the history of this unit.I know Jeff is on the cruz so I don't want to bother him.
My way of thinking is the units serial number has to be in a data base so they know what company had this unit so they know it was sold by an authorized dealer.Second I think that when a unit is serviced the serial number would be entered into the computer and any updates or repairs would be log in for that unit so other people who work on the machine would know what has been replaced and what hasn't.Also if someone said I just had this replaced and its no good they could easily tell you your full of it,that part was not replaced the last time it was serviced.So I would think without to much effort you could look in the data base for that serial number and tell what firmware its suppose to have and if the update repairs have been done on that unit or if anything has been done to the unit.
They have not replied yet.
I did have a long pause when I was watching the Italian Job,could have been a layer change but it was towards the end so I'm not sure.
Is there a websight that tells where the different layer changes takes place in a movie?
Well I'm babbling so I'll go put in a movie.

[ZICK]

I'm checking in and my last reply did not post, so... I got mine back Oct 17. and had to send it back again 10/20. The remote signals didn't respond but I may have fixed it myself. The slight freezing problem that it came with turned into a total freeze to the point that I had to turn the unit off then reboot. When it worked, the quality was SUPER. My PE730 shows everything whether good or bad. I'm anxious to see the 3800 updated and repaired completely. I was disappointed that Denon didn't fix it but sometimes electronics can get tricky. I have 2 Denon receivers and 1 power amp, so I believe in Denon products. I'll only be p.o'd if they don't fix it this time. All my CDs played perfectly.
fyi- my home made component video RG6 cables worked as well as $160 store bought. I have also used home made RG6 for audio patch cords with good results.

[pnichols]

From a daddy_guy post above: "Glad to hear from someone.....it has been a while...anyone else????"

I'm happy to report that my S/N 194 3800 is still performing steady and cool as a rock after 15 months.

P.S. #1 I run normally with my 3800's Sharpness at -2, as shown by AVIA to be optimum in progressive mode. However, my recent new non-anamorphic OAR version DVD of the 1962 classic "Mutiny on the Bounty" (not yet widely available on DVD) was a bit soft coming interlaced out of the 3800. A quick tweek of the 3800's great subtle Sharpness control up to +2 or beyond quickly brought this great film up to what I remembered it as being from the theater in the 1960's.

P.S. #2 Some of you may not be aware that the 3800 plays three of the four high definition audio formats just fine! DVD-A and SACD aren't the only games in town. How about HDCD and DTS 5.1? (yes....there are DTS 5.1 audio recordings) I'm slowly building a classical audio library of DVD-A, HDCD, and DTS 5.1. The 3800 sounds superb (to me) on all three. I'll not miss SACD as far as I can tell, so far.

[daddy_guy]

Phil is right about the "tweekability" of this player.....subtle adjustments can make a great picture ever a little bit better (who'd a thought?)....after over a month of owning this player, I am finally starting to play around with the memory settings (M1, M2, M3, etc).....just gotta love it's very subtle refinements in picture quality....:)
and all of its other "tweeks"!!!!!
I also agree about the DTS 5.1 discs.....just incredible!!!!! This is also a very musical player, and quite a welcome extra....( I would have been happy if it just played movies...)
But a video player this good with the added bonus of quality audio, and top quality audio parts too..... Denon has really scored in my book!
If the darn record companies didn't seem so "devoted" to releasing SACD only versions of 5.1 music.......
It just seems the choices for DVD-Audio and DTS 5.1 are still a little slim.......and slow in coming.......
Who knows where all of this is headed. I am sure it will be quite a while (if ever) that one standard will be enough....SACD, DVD-Audio, DTS 5.1, HDCD...........the record companies love it!!!
But in the meantime, we have a DVD Player that still is hard to improve upon in the video dept.............I mean, how much better can it get???? I will be content with the super deal I received on this Denon refurb for quite a while...........remember, the DVD3800 shares quite a bit of the best parts of the top of the line, 8 times more expensive DVD9000........Denon did it right with this player.....(other than underpricing and overbuilding it for us....).......;)
I don't miss SACD, I just wish there were more releases in DVD-Audio and DTS 5.1...and I feel the "push" for SACD is gaining steam.....for now anyway....... :)

[andr3wpd]

Still loving the 3800 over here, but I think I finally hit the freezing/skipping issue. It was the third movie of the evening and a disk that has played fine before. It was right at the end and the movie froze, then stuttered forward, then froze again and stuttered forward and then froze again and stayed frozen until I messed with the remote, I guess I must have hit play. I opened the player, cleaned the disk and put it back and went to the same spot in the movie and it played through fine. Is this the freezing issue??

[zoro]

is it refurb unit

[kevinca1]

Not to burst your and phils bubble daddyguy but if you heard and saw the 5900 you would see how much they can improve. I also had the 3800 it is a great player but the 5900 simply is that much better. But if i had the 3800 i would still be very happy,

[zoro]

I wonder, why refurb units still have problems?

[Kensmith48]

HeavyMetal3001,
Did you get your 3800 back yet? I'd like to hear the results. I sent mine in for the new laser and I already had the chroma bug fix done thru Denon Jeff. It still occassionally freezes/skips and the dvd's are still hot. I'm interested in getting this done but I'd like to hear the results first.
TIA
Ken

[daddy_guy]

I guess I should have said..."how much better can it get ...especially at this price..."
I have no doubt the 5900 is probably the ultimate player out there....if I had the money I would be all over it....my point through this whole thread has been price per lb., so to speak...........for what I paid, this machine is unbeatable........
and probably can't be beat for the..........price...........price............price...........
under $450..................saved about $1600........
the 5900 has to be about $1900............
that is a big difference in $$ for me...........
And although I haven't seen it, I know it must be good, renewed, updated and refined...........and better than the 3800...........That in itself makes it an incredible, unbeatable player!
I wish I could have the 5900....it does look like the ultimate....the thing is so tweakable!!! It has got to be the best under $10,000 player out there.....and just a little beyond my reach.....right now anyway...........
This thread for me has mostly been about a sale that was too good to pass up.......
Really wish I could have the 5900.............
wish I could have lots of cool equipment......
just can't afford it........
my refurb is working like a champ now, it has gotten me excited again about my equipment - and music and movies............
and,
Refurb or new, any delicate, high quality equipment can give you problems....perfection is unattainable, and the uncertainty principle runs wild..........I'll take my problems as they come...new or refurb........
and be happy I saved a few bucks on a great player this time out......:D :D

[Bluesboy]

Hi. New to this forum and it's great. I bought a refurbished 3800 from ecost and also had the freezing problem. Sent it out to repair in New Jersey(Denon headquarters) and just recieved it back. Now it doesnt't load 8 out of 10 discs. The ones that do load look fine but are hot when removed.
According to the returned paperwork- Work performed:
CLEANED/CHECKED/TESTED ALL FUNCTIONS
REPLACED ALL PARTS LISTED
Parts Used:
9ECA020B-TRAV/MECHA OST969
Has anybody had a similar exprerience and does anybody know if the entire opical assembly was replaced or just a part?
Any feedback is appreciated.