GW-III to PC over DVI

[raymod2]

When I bought my 42" Sony Grand Wega III (KF-42WE610) I thought connecting it to my PC through the DVI port on my ATI Radeon 9700 Pro under Windows XP would be a simple procedure. I would set my PC to output at the TV's native resolution (1386x788) and the entire desktop would be visible with a 1:1 pixel mapping (each pixel projected on the screen would correspond to a pixel on my desktop). It turns out that it's not so easy.

The best I have gotten so far is with the famous 1184x666 resolution. At first I wondered where these seemingly random numbers came from. Now I know. Start with 1280x720 and you have massive vertical and horizontal overscan. Attempt to adjust the screen geometry in Powerstrip and you will notice the following:

- you cannot change the horizontal position
- you can change the horizontal size by modifying the HFP, HSW, or HBP (it doesn't matter which one you adjust - an increase in any one of them will cause a decrease in horizontal size)
- you can change the vertical position by modifying the VSW or VBP(increasing either one will push the image down); modifying VFP has no effect
- you cannot change the vertical size

The only way to adjust the vertical size is to pick a new resolution. That is where the number 666 comes from. It is the vertical resolution that you must choose to get your vertical size to be just about right with no overscan or underscan. The exact number 666 was chosen because it is a multiple of 9. That allows you to select an exact 16:9 aspect ratio. And that is where the number 1184 comes from (666 x 16 / 9 = 1184).

So you right click on the Powerstrip icon, select Display Profiles->Configure, press the Advanced Timing Options button, press the Custom Resolutions button, select User-defined, select 1280x720, select Lock Total Geometry, plug in your new resolution (1184x666), and press the Add New Resolution button. Reboot. Switch to 1184x666. Go into powerstrip and adjust vertical position as described above. Now you have perfect vertical geometry - no overscan or underscan on the top or the bottom.

But things don't look so good in the horizontal. The display is overscanned on the left and underscanned on the right. Since you can't adjust the horizontal position the best you can do is shrink the horizontal size to get rid of the overscan on the left.

You're almost saved by a setting in the User Menu of the TV that allows you to adjust the horizontal position for each input (press Menu->Setup->Game Picture). Unfortunately the range of adjustment is too small to fix your problem. It helps, but when all is said and done you will still have about 1 inch of underscan on the right side of the screen.

Your last resort is the Service Menu of the TV. There you can adjust all aspects of your screen geometry (horizontal position via MID1:DHPH, vertical position via MID1:DVPH, horizontal size via MID1:MDHS, vertical size via MID1:MDVS) and this time the range of adjustment is large enough to fix your problem. However, your changes here will affect all your inputs. So if you shift the image to the right to fix your DVI input then the images on all the other inputs will be off-center. You probably won't notice this when watching TV in fullscreen 16:9 mode since the image will be overscanned enough to conceal it. You will notice it, though, when watching standard definition TV in 4:3 mode since the black bars on the sides will now differ in width.

If anyone comes up with a solution to the underscan on the right (without affecting the other inputs) I'd love to hear it.

I'll end this post with a question. I've seen some people say that they use the 1184x666 resolution for general computer work but they choose a lower resolution such as 720x480 (with overscan) for DVD viewing. I can't figure out why. Overscan is less annoying when watching movies but why settle for it at all when you don't have to? Your DVD player will scale to whatever resolution you are using so why not use 1184x666 for DVD viewing?

[Rop]

Ray,

Are you sure the service menu geometry changes affect all inputs on the GWIII? On my GWII this is a per-input setting, so i've adjusted it for DVI only, the other inputs are still what they were before. It's a little hard to believe Sony changed this when they could just re-use the existing firmware (at least for this part).

-Rob-

[raymod2]

I put a piece of scotch tape on each edge of the image in 4:3 mode on one of my S-video inputs. Then I switched to the DVI input, entered service mode, adjusted the geometry (MID1:DHPH, MID1:DVPH, MID1:MDHS, MID1:MDVS), and saved each of my changes with "Muting-Ent". When I switched back to the S-video input my image had moved. Maybe I did something wrong... can anyone with a GW-III verify my results?

[raymod2]

Well, I decided to start poking around in the service menu and do some experimenting. I discovered that there was more than one location to change the various geometry settings. For example, horizontal position could be adjusted in the following places: MID1:0(DHPH), MID1:9 (MDHP), and MID4:0(DHPL). The first location affected all inputs, the second location affected both my DVI input and my component input, and the third location only affected my DVI input. Bingo. A little more experimentation and I determined that the following settings can be used to adjust the screen geometry on your DVI input without affecting any of the other inputs:

MID4:0(DHPL) - horizontal position
MID4:1(DHSL) - horizontal size
MID4:2(DVPL) - vertical position
MID4:3(DVSL) - vertical size

Armed with this information I chose the default Powerstrip setting for 1280x720p (HDTV). Then I adjusted the above settings until the picture fit perfectly on the screen with no overscan or underscan in any direction.

[goose5k]

Thanks for the information on this raymod2.

I have been in the same boat recently and will give this a shot with the 1280x720p on powerstrip and then do the adjustments in the servcie menu.

Now for the dumb question, how do you go about entering the Service Menu? or is that answer in the owners manual? Just trying to get things figured out before heading home today to work on this

[raymod2]

To enter the service menu first turn off the TV. Then press "DISPLAY" - "5" - "VOL+" - "POWER" on the remote. The TV should come back on in service mode. Each setting is called an "item" and they are grouped in "categories". You use the 1 and 4 keys to scroll through the items. You use the 2 and 5 keys to scroll through the categories. You'll notice that each item in a category has both a number and a 4-letter name associated with it. So when I refer to MID4:0(DHPL) I am referring to item 0 (which is named DHPL) in the MID4 category. When you find the correct item you adjust it with the 3 and 6 keys. When you are satisfied with your change you must press "MUTING" - "ENT" on the remote to save it.

The layout of the screen in service mode is as follows:

CATEGORY....................ITEM NUMBER....................VALUE
ITEM NAME

Note that there may be multiple values associated with a single item. For example, switch to your DVI input and then go to MID4:0(DHPL) and look at the value stored there. Now press "TV/VIDEO" on your remote and switch to your ANT input. It looks like the value stays the same but that is just because the service mode software is too stupid to refresh the value. Scroll up one item and then back down to force a refresh. You will notice there is a new value there. So make sure you are on the correct input and in the correct mode when making your changes.

[nolajc2000]

Originally posted by raymod2
To enter the service menu first turn off the TV. Then press "DISPLAY" - "5" - "VOL+" - "POWER" on the remote. The TV should come back on in service mode. Each setting is called an "item" and they are grouped in "categories". You use the 1 and 4 keys to scroll through the items. You use the 2 and 5 keys to scroll through the categories. You'll notice that each item in a category has both a number and a 4-letter name associated with it. So when I refer to MID4:0(DHPL) I am referring to item 0 (which is named DHPL) in the MID4 category. When you find the correct item you adjust it with the 3 and 6 keys. When you are satisfied with your change you must press "MUTING" - "ENT" on the remote to save it.

The layout of the screen in service mode is as follows:

CATEGORY....................ITEM NUMBER....................VALUE
ITEM NAME


Is there a resource on the web to help navigate thru this area. IE what certain values affect and what the values do?

[Foxbat121]

There is an easy way to achive 1:1 pixel mapping and still see your entire desktop (sort of) without all these trouble. First make sure your set the correct resolution to get 1:1 pixel mapping. Then, in Win2000/XP, you can create 3 dummy desktop toolbars that dock on left, right and top of the screen. Adjust the size of these toolbars as well as the size of the taskbar so that you can see all your desktop area as well as items on taskbar. These toolbars serve as place holder to prevent other windows use the area that is invisible due to the overscan.

[tschlidt]

Foxbat121 - that is a duct tape solution.... I like it.

[raymod2]

And what is the duct tape solution for fixing underscan? Placing a piece of duct tape over the screen to mask out the blank area?

[JinMTVT]

Originally posted by raymod2
And what is the duct tape solution for fixing underscan? Placing a piece of duct tape over the screen to mask out the blank area?

hahahahaha reading this forum is crazy!!!! :)

So guys, i can't wait to get my 50" GWIII and start testing this stuff!


Raymod2 : have you tried setting PS to 1386x788 ??
what does it give? overscan issues?

1280 720p isn't bad is you can fix the overscan issue completly
but we are still using internal hard scalers after just having software scale
( if you are using soft scaling .. )

native need to be attain at 1:1 on dvi..this would be excelllente!!

Please let me know what you have tried so far in respect of the display native rez, u tried using 1280 720p but changing only rez?

[asc]

Raymod2,

thanks for the post, I was able to use the service menu adjustments to get the same results. I do have a question though, do you notice a bit of flicker in the menus or on solid backgrounds? There was major flicker on the Halo demo. Maybe I am using the wrong Powerstrip resolution?

[raymod2]

I did notice a little bit of flicker on the splash screen for UT2003. But other than that I I haven't had any problems with flicker so far. I've done a lot of web browsing and email and I've played some movies. I've also played the aforementioned Unreal Tournament 2003 at 1280x720 and it looks pretty good. I'm using the predefined Powerstrip settings for 1280x720p (HDTV standard) which are as follows:

PowerStrip timing parameters:
1280x720=1280,72,40,256,720,5,5,20,74160,7

Generic timing details for 1280x720:
HFP=72 HSW=40 HBP=256 kHz=45 VFP=5 VSW=5 VBP=20 Hz=60

Linux modeline parameters:
"1280x720" 74.160 1280 1352 1392 1648 720 725 730 750 -hsync -vsync

Is your Halo demo running in 1280x720p mode or is it going into an interlaced mode? I've noticed pretty bad flicker in interlaced resolutions.

[asc]

I checked and I am using the exact same timings. I can see the flicker/shimmer on my main desktop as well as in the game. I think it might be related to the AIW 9800 pro. I saw that someone else was having issues with an LCD panel.

[raymod2]

In response to JinMTVT:

I tried creating 1386x788 (GWIII native resolution) using Powerstrip but I couldn't configure it to use the same refresh rates as 1280x720 (45 kHz horizontal and 60 Hz vertical). I had to deselect "Lock total geometry" in order to get Powerstrip to allow me to enter 1386x788. When I did that the refresh rates came out to be 49 kHz horz and 60 Hz vert. When I tried using that setting the TV wouldn't sync.

Powerstrip allows you to adjust the refresh rates but when I lowered the horizontal refresh rate the vertical refresh rate also went down. I tried splitting the difference between the two (47 kHz horz and 58 Hz vert) but the TV wouldn't sync to that either.

Meanwhile I am not getting 1:1 pixel mapping at 1280x720. An example that illustrates this is to open notepad and enter a bunch of "=" characters on separate lines. Some of them are crisp and some of them are fuzzy. Another example is to display a bitmap that consists of a checkerboard of black and white pixels. Rather than seeing the individual pixels you get a gray shimmering background.

[nolajc2000]

I am at a loss. For whatever reason, I cannot get past 640 x480 on my Radeon 9800 AiW and the Sony Wega Grand 50. The WG-50's service menu is quite a bit different than what was posted easrlier in the thread.

I have to believe that the combo that I have has the capability to produce higher resolution as I am seeing such when I connect via the component video out. However, when I go via DVi, I get nothing but the lowest resolution (640x480).

Any suggestions?

PS I have tried using Powerstrip and the resolutions are adjustable, but none take when XP is restarted.

[siverson]

Hi raymod2,

Thanks for the info in this thread- just got my GIII 50" last night and after about 2 hours of fussing, got a nice, centered 1260x720p image displayed via DVI from my HTPC. Just FYI, I'm using the 9800 card (not pro).

Is there any substance to the rumors that the color (black levels?) may be off when using a PC on this set? What's the about?

DVD playback via my HTPC looked good to me, but I could be missing something (upgraded from a 12 yo 25" CRT).

-Steve

[chris5977]

Have you guys tried using DVI ***WITHOUT*** Powerstrip?

My ATI HTPC automicaly syncs up to the 1280x720 rez of my DLP set. I use the ATI software, not Powerstrip.

[moeronn]

Originally posted by chris5977
Have you guys tried using DVI ***WITHOUT*** Powerstrip?

My ATI HTPC automicaly syncs up to the 1280x720 rez of my DLP set. I use the ATI software, not Powerstrip. The DLPs seem to have no problem with PC connections. There is something about the Sonys that make it more difficult to get the DVI connection to work. Sony even states that the DVI connection is not PC compatible. It would be nice if the GWIIIs were as accepting as the Sammy DLPs, but that just isn't the case.

[raymod2]

I did a little more experimenting tonight and I came to the conclusion that the screen geometry settings in MID4:0 through MID4:3 must be considered when attempting to achieve 1:1 pixel mapping.

With my screen resolution set to 1280x720 I displayed a black and white pixel checkerboard over the whole screen. Then I went into the service menu and started playing with MID4:3 (vertical size). At a setting of 192 it was clear that I was getting perfect 1:1 pixel mapping in the vertical direction (albeit with a small amount of underscan). Then I started playing with MID4:1 (horizontal size) to see if I could get 1:1 pixel mapping in the horizontal direction. The results here were not as conclusive but the best setting appeared to be 171 (which again produced some underscan).

[Datalux]

At a setting of 192 it was clear that I was getting perfect 1:1 pixel mapping in the vertical direction

As much as I would like to believe you, ( I really would ;) ) the Sony is a Fixed Pixel Display (FPD) and unless you are feeding its native resolution of 1386x788, I don't see how it could be 1:1 pixel mapping. It's close, but its not 1:1 as far as logic and my eyes tells me.

Try this http://www.construnet.hu/nokia/Monitors/TEST/monitor_test.html and see if the banding goes away when using the service menu adjustments. I tried the same thing you did in the service menu last night and it was obvious that I was NOT getting 1:1 mapping using the Nokia Monitor Test. Use the Resolution function (strips) and/or the Moire function (checkerboard) to test 1:1. On close inspection (my eyes aren't that good) it appears that multiple pixes are being used to display lines and individual pixels depending on the funtion you are using.

Great adjustment program tho...

Michael

[moeronn]

Originally posted by Datalux
As much as I would like to believe you, ( I really would ;) ) the Sony is a Fixed Pixel Display (FPD) and unless you are feeding its native resolution of 1386x788, I don't see how it could be 1:1 pixel mapping. It's close, but its not 1:1 as far as logic and my eyes tells me.I'm not trying to contradict you - more just asking a question... I agree that the GWIII is a Fixel Pixel Display, but would it be possible to only feed it 1280x720 pixels of information? This would result in a significant amount of underscan, but I could live with that if I was getting true 1:1 pixel mapping. Maybe the display and/or connections and/or drivers don't work that way. Just wondering.:confused:

[Datalux]

I'm not trying to contradict you

By all means contradict me...;) I am by no stretch of the imagination an expert in this area.

As I understand it, if there is a fixed number of pixels in the display, they are always on and you cannot feed it fewer. I.e. turn some off. So if you are feeding it 1280x720 then it is spreading (averaging) that resolution across the complete spectrum of its pixels. This is why we can see shimmering/banding/blurring in checkerboard patterns and text.

Basically we need to be able to feed 1386x788 @ 45x60hz but no one has been able to get the timings correct using Powerstrip. I know I have spent countless hours trying and the TV will not sync to the odd frequencies I am generating.

Michael

[raymod2]

Datalux, it is logic that prompted me to attempt to achieve 1:1 pixel mapping through the service menu adjustments. It has been hypothesized that the optics on this TV are fixed. If that is true, then how is the service menu able to adjust vertical and horizontal size? It must be via the scaler.

For example, suppose you can see 750 lines from the top edge of the screen to the bottom edge. I didn't count but I expect it is somewhere between 720 and 788. Now if you adjust a 1280x720 image so that it fits perfectly on the screen then you are mapping from 720 lines to 750 lines and you should expect to see some fuzziness. Now suppose you shrink that same image until it falls on exactly 720 lines. Now you will have 1:1 pixel mapping in the vertical direction. My observations seemed to confirm this. Unfortunately I did not see clear results in the horizontal direction. At the best setting for horizontal size I still saw some blurring, especially towards the center of the screen.

[Datalux]

raymod2,

Good question. In my mind I figured it WAS the optics that were moving. I based this on the manner in which the SM menu made the adjustments. The top and left side are fixed and move on a H/V axis, while the bottom and right side can be compressed or squeezed. It just appeared to be more mechanical than scaling. I expected the scaler to "Snap" to a given resolution or predetermined signal.

However, what you are saying does make sense in my mind. Even if it is akin to focusing a flashlight on the wall, if there is a grid on the flashlight and a grid on the wall of equal resolution, you would think that they could be matched 1:1 given perfect focus.

I think I will try again tonight when I get home to see if I can reproduce your findings. Did you try the Nokia program?

[JinMTVT]

Originally posted by moeronn
I'm not trying to contradict you - more just asking a question... I agree that the GWIII is a Fixel Pixel Display, but would it be possible to only feed it 1280x720 pixels of information? This would result in a significant amount of underscan, but I could live with that if I was getting true 1:1 pixel mapping. Maybe the display and/or connections and/or drivers don't work that way. Just wondering.:confused:


to do that, you would still have to feed it it's native resolution
and use some kind of software/widows trick t display a black border around your 1280 720 video

this is doable, but you woul be loosing approx 15% of total resolution
and total size

the only poing in doing so would be to display a 720p signal with all it's full integrity ( no scaling at all... )
wich would give a non better quality than scaling it with a good scaler to the full pannel size neway :p

[JinMTVT]

I just reread Datalux and Raymod2 lasts comments..

I can assume that Raymod is right about the 1:1 mapping form 720p rez!!

as i understand it, the service menu adjustments for overscan removes the use of some pixel lines from the pannels
it is not an optical adjustement but rather an electronical one

This could permit us to achieve 1:1 pixel rez perfectly though..

Please raymo2, try this out!

try and determine with the helps of pictures or patterns
the amount in pixels of overscan from the set from your 720p source
if by scaling it back to get the 1:1 mapping you talked about, we could get a nice resolution that was a tad bit higher than 720 to work perfectly and adjut trhough service menu to get 0 overscan
wich neway will not remove us any resolution since we can't see the pixels that are ovescanned..

So the point would be to feed it a resolution that would work..
one that would be the exact point in between the pannels native and 720p
where we achive perfect framing...
this would permit us to get 1:1 with the adjustments, and while using computers, you do not get any overscan weird video stuff like from NTSC video signals or dvds...

try and raise the resolution apprimatly to what you think could work

and pelase tell me raymod2, where the pixels in the border section
( the unused one from underscan) black??? gray ? appeared to be turned off?

i think you just found the only way to drive this set perfectly!



Also i would like to add ...
the reason why we are experiencing problems to get PC connections for this display is because of the Sony's WEGA engine board wich is rather complicated stuff, and i think that they didn't intend for custom resolution supports at all

what do you think guys?

( ordered DVI cable ... can't wait to get my set now !!! )

[raymod2]

Datalux, I clicked on the link you posted above and downloaded the Nokia Monitor Test program. The "resolution" tools allow you to display alternating black and white lines over the entire screen. You can choose whether the lines are 1 pixel wide or 2 pixels wide. You can also choose whether the lines are horizontal or vertical. Using these test patterns I was able to reproduce my previous results.

screen resolution = 1280x720
MID4:1(DHSL) = 171
MID4:3(DVSL) = 192

With these settings I was able to eliminate all banding. The 1-pixel wide horizontal lines were all clearly visible and distinct. The 1-pixel wide vertical lines were visible but not as distinct. Instead of being black and white they were more like dark gray and light gray. Also in some areas of the screen the lines blurred together.

[JinMTVT]

are you at the max of the range already at 192 ?
this would mean that we need to use higher vertical rez?

please if you have time try and see if you can get anything beyound 720 and under native rez to work with 720 timings maybe..

also it would be good if you could state the quantity of underscan you are getting from this ( not on the video, but rather the lost space all around it..)

thanks

[raymod2]

JinMTVT, the way I have it set now is at 1280x720 and optimized for 1:1 pixel mapping with underscan all around. The underscan is about 6mm on the top and bottom and 13mm on the left and right.

I had to play with the powerstrip timings a little bit to solve the following two problems:

1) I reached the limit of the vertical position setting in the service menu when I tried centering the image.

2) When there is underscan, garbage will sometimes appear at the bottom of the screen beyond the edge of the image where there is no signal.

After experimenting with the vertical porch settings I came to the conclusion that they specified how many blank lines to display above the image (back porch) and below the image (front porch). So by increasing the back porch setting I was able to push the image down until it was centered. Then I increased the front porch setting until I had pushed the garbage off the bottom edge of the screen.

[JinMTVT]

What you described earlier seemed more like scalin than translating the image to me ...nah ?

djust a 1280x720 image so that it fits perfectly on the screen then you are mapping from 720 lines to 750 lines and you should expect to see some fuzziness. Now suppose you shrink that same image until it falls on exactly 720 lines. Now you will have 1:1 pixel mapping in the vertical direction. My observations seemed to confirm this. Unfortunately I did not see clear results in the horizontal direction.

Shrink = scale
please clarify on this

so you approximate that we can see something like 750 vertical lines total..
this sounds right for the 5% overscan everyone talks about
( 5% = 748 lines down from native)

[Datalux]

Using these test patterns I was able to reproduce my previous results.

raymod2,

Sonofa****! ;) I was able to reproduce your results exactly using the settings you provided. (I was surprised that they were the same on my 50" vs. your 42") When I originally checked this the other night, I was streching the image and not compressing it as you did which obviously makes more sense. :). I agree, the horizontal is exact 1:1 but the vertical is sketchy but it looks like 1:1 - it seems my set has a slant and a single line of pixels on the left border is viewable at the base of the screen, but rolls off the screen by at least 1 additional pixel at the top. This is prevailent across the screen and creates some blurring.

Well with that said, I must thank you for all your help as I believe it was you that pointed out the MID4 settings originally that solved this overscan issue.

Now if I can just get rid of the "<application> has generated errors and will be closed by windows" problem I am having with some programs - life will be good!

Regards,

Michael

[JinMTVT]

Originally posted by Datalux
...Now if I can just get rid of the "<application> has generated errors and will be closed by windows" problem I am having with some programs - life will be good!


My guess is that you are running windows 95,98 or ME
wich is the reason why you have this problem :p

Update to win2k or XP at least :p
hehe!



Do you say that your image isn't centered with this service menu adjustement?

we need to input a higher rez than 1280 720..

[Datalux]

My guess is that you are running windows 95,98 or ME

Thanks for taking a stab at it but no...(Honking noise)

It turned out to be an incompatible version of FFDShow installed in conjuntion with TheaterTek on my Windows 2000 Professional HTPC.

[JinMTVT]

Originally posted by Datalux
Thanks for taking a stab at it but no...(Honking noise)

It turned out to be an incompatible version of FFDShow installed in conjuntion with TheaterTek on my Windows 2000 Professional HTPC.

ah at least :)
now i am happy for you that you aren't runnig in "shitty" windows versions :)

have you tried a few versions of ffdshow ? maybe it's a filter problem :p

[RogerWilco]

I've gotten the 1280x720 res working well thanks to the service menu tweaks provided by raymod. It seems that we just need to get a reolution that will take up the whole screen. Is this possible? Will the Sony accept a res higher that 1280x720p? I haven't been able to find one yet.

-RW

[raymod2]

RogerWilco, I am fairly certain that we can come up with a powerstrip setting that will fill the screen (at least vertically) and maintain 1:1 pixel mapping. Basically we just need to replace some of those front and back porch lines with additional lines of resolution. I never bothered to try this because I was happy with the 1280x720 resolution with a small amount of underscan all around.

I'll play around with it some more and post some new powerstrip settings if you want. But you'll have to wait a little while because I just sent the TV back in for an exchange due to a dead pixel that was bothering me. I won't get a replacement until at least Saturday.

[RogerWilco]

Sounds good. Thanks for your help.

Good luck with the new TV. I have a few stuck/dead pixels myself. Fortunately I can't seem them outside of 3 feet from the TV.

I was curious.. what settings to you use for the HTPC? Standard, Vivid, Pro... and what are your settings for that particular picture?

Thanks again.
-RW

[mpgxsvcd]

Can you clarify the service menu settings a bit? When I went into the service menu on the Video 7(DVI) input it displayed Video 6 as the input in the service menu. I was definitely on the Video 7 input so why does it show video 6. Is this normal. If I change the MID4:1(DHSL) and MID4:3(DVSL) with it showing the Video 6 as the input will it affect my component input settings? Also is there a way to set the service menu back to the defaults incase I mess something up? Thanks for your help.

[mpgxsvcd]

Any help on this would be appreciated.

[RogerWilco]

I'm actually not sure about that because I don't have anything hooked into Video 6. I noticed that it says Video 6 as well. THe changes made definitely affected video 7. Just write down the original settings and change one of the parameters enough to be noticable then switch to video 6 and see if it has been affected. It should be easy enough to change back.

If you are going to change the MID 4:1 and 3 settings you will also need to change the MID4:0 and 2 settings to center up the display.
My value for MID 4:3 also ended up being 193 instead of 192...


-RW

[mpgxsvcd]

Thanks, That helps a ton! I am going to try adjusting the settings tonight.

[JinMTVT]

have you guys come yup with anything new ??

Raymod2 , whare are your latest tetss?
anything worked out for 1:1 mapping filling the screen completly?

[Mayor McCheese]

Does anyone know what exactly is being changed when you alter the MID4:x settings? Is that a scaling factor or something else? What are the ranges for setting those values?

[Googer]

Gadzooks, how'd I miss this thread 'till now? You people apparently being able to coax 1:1 pixel mapping out of the GWIII would put it back on my list of candidates. :p 'specially with all the specials CC is currently running. :D

[Mayor McCheese]

Originally posted by Googer
Gadzooks, how'd I miss this thread 'till now? You people apparently being able to coax 1:1 pixel mapping out of the GWIII would put it back on my list of candidates. :p 'specially with all the specials CC is currently running. :D

Same here:)

[Googer]

I bit on a 60XBR950 today. I should have it within a week. :D If I'm not happy I can always return it (and if so I'll probably be banned from even entering that CC for life as it would be my 2nd big-screen TV returned :p).

[JinMTVT]

Originally posted by Googer
I bit on a 60XBR950 today. I should have it within a week. :D If I'm not happy I can always return it (and if so I'll probably be banned from even entering that CC for life as it would be my 2nd big-screen TV returned :p).

lol


for the service menu settings,

from what i've read in this thread and on the RPTV one from the same topic,
this adjusts the number of line used vertically and horizontally ( 2 diff settings) on the pannels

there is also another setting that adjusts the positioning of the image itself

so with a 1280 720 signal, one can tune this setting to get 1:1 pixel mapping with a small lost of screen size ( approx 5% all around )

we still need to find a way to have it accept something higher to use completly the screen, but this is more than acceptable for most users
beeing able to send it 720p from HDTV,software scaled DVD and other medias :)
( also PCI DVB card software scaled DIGITAL TV :) ahha )

[mustyn]

please forgive the newbie question but...

Does adjusting the screen size (scaling / shrinking) to reduce overscan affect all inputs / sources or can it be specific to just one (DVI)?

Just wondering if I adjust the screen for PC use (through DVI) will my digital cable also be affected?

[raymod2]

mustyn: How about you read the whole thread and answer your own question?

[JinMTVT]

Originally posted by raymod2
mustyn: How about you read the whole thread and answer your own question?

hihi!
common..it's alot faster to only read the last 3 posts :p
ahha

Raymod2: any new stuff you've tried with your display ?
how is the dvi connection going ? :p

[MadChemst]

Raymod,

First of all, thanks so much for all your effort here thus far. You have saved the rest of us much time and aggravation. I have been following this thread since it's inception and haven't had anything more than you to contribute. Until now. I'm aware that the native resolution of our sets is 1366-768 however on a Radeon card, we're only able to output 1360-768. I have attempted this resolution and I have only been able to get the timings close like you but apparently not close enough. Why is this limitation there exactly? Can't we just force the display into doing it regardless using some kind of manual driver editor? My neighbor has a 50 inch Fujitsu plasma and he said although he endured much aggravation, he is running 1360-768 which is almost the native resolution of his display as well. If this limitation is driver related, I will get on the horn with ATI myself and ask them to fix it. They did that a year ago when my neighbor bought his plasma. One of the techs modified a driver for him and said they are more than happy to help with exotic display issues. Anyways, let me know what you think and again, I can't thank you enough for all your efforts. You too, Data.

Josh.

[N3W81E]

Has anybody gotten 800x600 to work on the GWIII? IF so, can you please post the powerstrip timings here? Some of the games I want to play requires that resolution just to start the game. :(

Thanks!!

[goose5k]

To answer the question above, it only effects the DVI input when you change the settings. I did it on my TV and it has worked really well.

Marine Aquarium 2 Screen Saver looks awesome in 1280 x 720p. I will try and post some pics later.

[mpgxsvcd]

Can someone just write a short reply on exactly what the setup is to use the DVI with an ati card? I am having trouble getting my ATI 8500DV to use any other resolution besides 640x480 with the DVI. It always treats it like there are two tv’s(one on the s-video out and one on the DVI). Does the hydravision software enable this multiple monitor support? Is there anyway to disable or uninstall this? What are the exact settings that you use? What resolution and powerstrip settings? If someone could just write a guide that tells us step by step what they have done that would help a lot. What resolution do you use before you plug in the DVI cable or do you just plug in the cable boot it up and then change to the proper resolution?

[N3W81E]

I have a 9700pro using DVI conn to 42WE610 w/WinXP, and this is what I did....

1. Set rez to 640x480 on a conventional CRT, shutdown
2. Connect to TV, boot into 640x480
3. Go to display properties for Powerstrip and input the settings that Raymod2 posted
4. Change rez to the new 1280x720
5. Adjusted service menu settings (MID4)

Everything works fine for me, DVDs look great using ZP+WinDVD+ffdShow. Games works fine as long as they support 640x480 and 1280x720.

Now only if somebody can get 800x600 to sync with the TV....... ;)

Raymod2, thank you for your settings and data on GWIII/PC-DVI :D

[BruiserBob]

I have recently ordered the 60"(CAN'T WAIT TILL IT GETS HERE!). And have been following this thread avidly.

I'd like to point something out that you guys may already have figured out, but it wasn't too clear so I thought I'd bring it up. We need to keep in mind that an res you enter in should keep the ratio of 16/9 as 1280x760 does.

Since you guys are getting underscan on all sides when adjusted to 1:1 pixel mapping you should be able to try bigger resolutions while keeping your 16/9 ratio for instance:
1296/769
1312/778
1328/786

Maybe it won't work but it's worth a shot. When I get mine setup, I'll be joining the good fight!

BruiserBob

[N3W81E]

Raymod2 or other ppl,
Have you guys gotten other resolutions to work on the GWIII? (i.e. 800x600, 1024x768, 1080i, etc) Can you please post your PS settings if you did get them to work? I've been fiddling around, but cannot get anything to work other than 640x480 with overscan, and raymod's 1280x720.

Thanks. :)

[RogerWilco]

I havent gotten any standard resolutions to work besides 640x480. Any games that require 800x600 i have to run them in a windowed mode. So far I haven't hit a game that I can play...

Here are some settings I'm using in powerstrip.

640x480
PowerStrip timing parameters:
640x480=640,152,48,176,480,28,1,54,34290,1

Generic timing details for 640x480:
HFP=152 HSW=48 HBP=176 kHz=34 VFP=28 VSW=1 VBP=54 Hz=60

Linux modeline parameters:
"640x480" 34.290 640 792 840 1016 480 508 509 563 +hsync +vsync

1280x720
PowerStrip timing parameters:
1280x720=1280,72,40,256,720,11,5,24,75142,7

Generic timing details for 1280x720:
HFP=72 HSW=40 HBP=256 kHz=46 VFP=11 VSW=5 VBP=24 Hz=60

Linux modeline parameters:
"1280x720" 75.142 1280 1352 1392 1648 720 731 736 760 -hsync -vsync

1920x1080i
PowerStrip timing parameters:
1920x1080=1920,169,64,295,1080,20,5,20,82620,9

Generic timing details for 1920x1080:
HFP=169 HSW=64 HBP=295 kHz=34 VFP=20 VSW=5 VBP=20 Hz=30

Linux modeline parameters:
"1920x1080" 82.620 1920 2089 2153 2448 1080 1100 1105 1125 interlace +hsync +vsync

856x480
PowerStrip timing parameters:
856x480=856,88,48,120,480,28,1,54,37530,1

Generic timing details for 856x480:
HFP=88 HSW=48 HBP=120 kHz=34 VFP=28 VSW=1 VBP=54 Hz=60

Linux modeline parameters:
"856x480" 37.530 856 944 992 1112 480 508 509 563 +hsync +vsync


-RW

[mpgxsvcd]

Thanks for the step by step instructions. That helps. I have a couple of questions though.

1. Do you have to set it to 640x480 with a monitor first or can you use the s-video out to set it to 640x480. I have an ATI 8500DV so it has an s-video out. However, I don’t have a monitor near the computer.
2. When you list the powerstrip timing parameters as
640x480
PowerStrip timing parameters:
640x480=640,152,48,176,480,28,1,54,34290,1

What do each of the numbers correspond to? For example I am not clear about where to put the 34290.

Note: I did get the 800x600 to work on the s-video out. In fact it looked so good that I had given up on getting the DVI to work. It is weird because the 800x600 looks perfect in standard 3:4 format or even if you use the wide zoom(has a little overscan). However, I tried 1024x768 through the s-video and it looked horrible. Why does the higher res look worse?

Thanks for your help.

[N3W81E]

Thx RogerWilco, I will give those a try.

Mpgxsvcd,
34290 is the pixel clock setting = 34.290

S-video and DVI connection are totally different. S-video outputs NTSC signals at 29.97fps, compared to straight digital signal thru the DVI at 60Hz. If you are satisfied with s-video, then go with it, as it will play all the games without much tweaking.

But I'm not settling, one of the main reasons I went for this TV was to be able to play PC games at high res thru DVI. :)

[RogerWilco]

Hey guys,
You should be able to just copy that data and paste it into powerstrip. It will auto-populate the entries for you.

-RW

[jspeton]

Originally posted by mpgxsvcd
Note: I did get the 800x600 to work on the s-video out. In fact it looked so good that I had given up on getting the DVI to work. It is weird because the 800x600 looks perfect in standard 3:4 format or even if you use the wide zoom(has a little overscan). However, I tried 1024x768 through the s-video and it looked horrible. Why does the higher res look worse?

800x600 looks good on S-Video? I can't believe that. Still waiting for my DVI cable so I can't comment on the DVI connection, but in playing with the S-Video out I found 800x600 to be almost unreadable. I then switched to 640x480 and things cleared up remarkably. Which makes sense, I think, since S-Video can only send 480 vertical lines of resolution, to send a 800x600 picture it has to be downscaled for S-Video and then the TV upscales to native rez. It looked horrible. Sending 640x480 ("native" S-Video, so to speak) gave a very sharp and readable desktop, moreso than I thought it would (although still 4:3 :(). I am guessing it is this reason that 1024x768 looks so bad: it is still arriving at the TV as 480i.

Supposedly with the new NVidia drivers (52.16) I can send a 720p and 1080i signal to my TV -- I hope this means through the DVI output! Anyone have a GeForceFX series card with the new drivers and try this? The 53.03 beta drivers are supposed to improve upon this still if anyone is willing to install beta drivers. :) I will when my DVI cable arrives and if 52.16 doesn't cut it.

[mpgxsvcd]

800x600 looks excellent on my 50" GWIII. Everything is completely readable. I thought s-video can actually do 540 lines(Is that horizontal or vertical though?) Anyway the 640x480 looks ok and 800x600 looks great. Are you using an Nvidia card or an ATI. There might be a difference in how my ATI card outputs through s-video. I don't know. I only use my s-video for displaying analog shows that I have recorded in windows media 9 from my standard co-axial cable. The quality in is not so good so the quality out is just ok but the GWIII definitely makes a difference.

RogerWilco,

Can you write a short description or give me a screen shot of where to copy and paste those settings into powerstrip. I haven't used the program that much and all I saw were individual fields to enter in the values. Is there a place to just paste in the comma delimited text?

[MadChemst]

MPG, with all due respect. Nobody in this forum cares whether or not S-Video looks good on your display. S-VIDEO may be adequete for the general public but it's about 3 tiers of quality below something I would even consider watching. There's component, component progressive, and then S-Video. S-Video is a joke and this forum is for DVI discussion. Please go elsewhere to discuss lesser interfaces.

Thanks,

Josh.

[goose5k]

MGP

1st make sure you have the latest version of PowerStrip.

Next you clikc the icon on the lower part of your screen. From there your should see an advanced timings button. Next screen you will see a custom resolutions button.

Now you highlight his timings and hit "ctrl-c" on your keyboard to copy. Then click the past button in powerstrip and it will plop the settings right now.

Now save teh settings and do it again for each one of the items above.

Shuold be all you need to do. If you have more questions, check out Powerstip's board for a walk through on the application as it is covered step by step w/ pictures... Just do a search for Custom Resolutions and you shuodl find it.

[MadChemst]

I have some interesting news that I'm sure most of you will be excited about. I have been able to run 1080P on this display through the use of Powerstrip. There is some flicker in the finer details with lots of white however, this is still 1080P being down-scaled to 1366-768 via the scaler in the set. I am certain now that since I have achieved 1920-1080, I can somehow feed this set 1360-768. Those of us with ATI cards will be limited to 1360 as opposed to 1366 and will lose 3 pixels on either side if we want 1:1. How can we somehow force powerstrip into doing 45 and 60? Instead of throwing one or the other out of balance each time I try to make a custom res? Raymod, I'd be interested in your thoughts on this as well as Datalux's.

Respect,

Josh.

[jspeton]

Originally posted by mpgxsvcd
800x600 looks excellent on my 50" GWIII. Everything is completely readable. I thought s-video can actually do 540 lines(Is that horizontal or vertical though?) Anyway the 640x480 looks ok and 800x600 looks great. Are you using an Nvidia card or an ATI. There might be a difference in how my ATI card outputs through s-video. I don't know. I only use my s-video for displaying analog shows that I have recorded in windows media 9 from my standard co-axial cable. The quality in is not so good so the quality out is just ok but the GWIII definitely makes a difference.
I use an NVidia card, GeForceFX 5200. It seems like everyone in this forum uses ATI. I've seen little to no reports of trying DVI connections through NVidia cards, at least on the GWIII. Hopefully I'll be able to try by tomorrow night.

MadChemst, don't presume to speak for everyone.

[MadChemst]

>>> GW-III to PC over DVI <<<

My apologies for speaking for others. Forgive me for assuming that the nature of this thread was digital only. After all, the thread title couldn't possibly be any less clear. Perhaps the following place would be a more ideal environment for this discussion?

Regards,

Josh.

">>> GW-III to PC over S-VIDEO <<<" Thread?

[jspeton]

Originally posted by MadChemst
>>> GW-III to PC over DVI <<<

My apologies for speaking for others. Forgive me for assuming that the nature of this thread was digital only. After all, the thread title couldn't possibly be any less clear. Perhaps the following place would be a more ideal environment for this discussion?

Regards,

Josh.

">>> GW-III to PC over S-VIDEO <<<" Thread?
True enough, but in your original response you said this FORUM is for DVI discussion. If you meant thread, you should have said thread (which I agree with). And there's really no need for your sarcasm.

[llama]

Does anyone know if any of this information applies to a grand wega II?

Thanks

[RogerWilco]

Originally posted by MadChemst
I have some interesting news that I'm sure most of you will be excited about. I have been able to run 1080P on this display through the use of Powerstrip. There is some flicker in the finer details with lots of white however, this is still 1080P being down-scaled to 1366-768 via the scaler in the set. I am certain now that since I have achieved 1920-1080, I can somehow feed this set 1360-768. Those of us with ATI cards will be limited to 1360 as opposed to 1366 and will lose 3 pixels on either side if we want 1:1. How can we somehow force powerstrip into doing 45 and 60? Instead of throwing one or the other out of balance each time I try to make a custom res? Raymod, I'd be interested in your thoughts on this as well as Datalux's.

Respect,

Josh.

Hey Josh.
Are you sure you are using 1080p? Can you post the powerstrip timings?

Thanks.

-RW

[JinMTVT]

MadChemst: 3 pixels is nothing since we will loose them neway in the optical overscan this display is set on.

Please if you have time and are able to, try to find a resolution that will allow 1:1 with no overscan/underscan or almost none.
This would permit us the use of the full screen with 1:1 pixel mappin

you will need to use Raymods2 service menu adjustements to be able to set it at 1:1 mapping

use a checker board picture displayed at 1:1 on your computer with pure black and pure white pixels.. this will help you achieve 1:1 with adjustments!


DAMN!!! can't wait to get my GWIII!!! now the store has pushed us to end of decmeber ;(
been already 1 month of wait !! :(

[Googer]

I will have my 60XBR950 tomorrow. I will be joining the quest of attaining perfect overscanless 1:1 then, though it's worth keeping in mind that the XBR settings may be slightly different than the WE's since it's supposedly got slightly higher resolution LCD panels in it. :D

[mlbspike]

Higher rez panels? Everything I have read says they are the same panels - .87" WXGA - 3.28 Million Dots of rez. The lenticular screen is .098mm, instead of the WE's .155mm. Not coincidentally, the same .87 & 3.28 stats as the HS10 front projector. All this based on available sony literature. There are supposed to be other changes to the light engine (have found no official literature about what (haven't looked very hard), just relying on comments in these forums for that).
Mike

[Googer]

For awhile Sony had been saying the WE's had a resolution of 1366x768 and the XBR's a resolution of 1388x788, but you're right, their site now says both of them have 3.28 million pixels of resolution (which is the number you get if you work with 1388x788 as the resolution), which would of course imply they are using the same panels. :) Also notice I said supposedly, as I found it odd that Sony would even bother with using panels with only such a slight improvement to resolution on the XBR's but not the WE's (it would make more sense to bother if the XBR's were using full 1080p panels or something :p).

[peterlamb]

What monitor do you tell windows to use? Plug and Play or do you use another? I am having a really hard time to configure the ATI all in wonder 9800 pro with the dvi port to my gwiii 50" tv. It all works pretty god with compnent out from the card but i would rather use the DVI.
Your comments are appreciated.

[peterlamb]

What monitor do you tell windows to use? Plug and Play or do you use another? I am having a really hard time to configure the ATI all in wonder 9800 pro with the dvi port to my gwiii 50" tv. It all works pretty god with compnent out from the card but i would rather use the DVI.
Your comments are appreciated.

[RogerWilco]

I'm not at home right now but I believe you choose the Sony W900 or 900W.. something like that.

[JinMTVT]

GDM-FW900
is the 24" with the highest resolutions in the drivers from Sony computer monitor range

it is also the monitor i have craved for sooo many years ...
i was once crooked of 500$USD of deposit on ebay for this monitor,
from a guy that is still stelaing some people money on ebay!
SHAME ON YOU!!! ;p

[MadChemst]

Well that's just it. I installed Windows XP with my 17 inch LG flat panel (15 pin) and my DVI connection to the GWIII and with no manipulation whatsoever, I had a slightly overscanned 1920-1080. When I checked the resolution in my display settings, there it was: 1920-1080@60. After this, I installed powerstrip to add the other resolutions I wanted and I could never duplicate it. Until yesterday :) I installed Media Center Edition 2004 and voila, same exact scenario and again, after powerstrip, no more 1920. Since tghe DVI connection is completely bypassing the set's scaler, (at least that is how it works on my father's 50" plasma) I can't see how the TV is scaling if it's 1080i. Unless... it's my video card doing the scaling. I'm not sure. As for the custom resolutions we discussed, I have used the MID settings in the service menu and was able to correct for width and height in higher resolutions than 1280-720 but I am nowhere near 1:1 pixel. I am using Monitorteste and Nokia Monitor Test. I'm doin 1, 2, and 3 pixel wide grids and there is noticeable banding. I will continue to play with it until I get 1:1 pixel mapping without losing 5% of my already tiny 42 inch display.

Something I find that helped out quite a bit with mode selection is writing my own monitor driver in powerstrip. It's nice because that way, you never get your displays mixed up. (I have three) and you know you're adding new resolutions to the correct display and adapter. One problem I could use some help with is figuring out why WMP9 won't go fullscreen for visualizations. It tries to, then kicks back saying my hardware acceleration isn't fully enabled. I checked the slider, it's all the way there, running CAT 3.9's WHQL, and DX9b. I have no idea what is causing this but I miss being able to do that.

Questions, comments, suggestions, flames?

Thanks.

Josh.

[MadChemst]

1360-734.

This is the highest vertical sync I can get. The reason is this. If I increase the vertical lines more than 734, the vertical freq wants to go over 61hz and it will not sync beyond this. The best I can do is 46 and 61 hz. If I go beyond those numbers, I can't get the display to sync at all. Is there a way to increase vertical resolution to 768 somehow without bringing the display out of sync capability? FYI, 1360 is a Radeon limitation since the next setting beyond that would be more pixels than our little GWIII has in its array.

Thoughts?

Once I get it to sync higher than 734 vertical, I'd be glad to play with my MID settings to get the screen to 1:1.

Argh,

Josh.

[raymod2]

As promised I have generated powerstrip timings that produce no overscan OR underscan at 1:1 pixel mapping. The new resolution is 1304x734. Setting the resolution any higher than this will result in overscan after adjusting MID4 for 1:1 pixel mapping. I am also providing my powerstrip timings for 1280x720 for those people who (like me) prefer a standard resolution with a small amount of underscan (approximately 1cm all around).

1280x720=1280,72,40,256,720,18,5,30,74160,6
1304x734=1304,64,40,240,734,11,5,23,74160,6

When using these timings set MID4:1 (horizontal size) to 171 and set MID4:3 (vertical size) to 192. Then center the image using MID4:0 and MID4:2.

[Googer]

I got my 60XBR950 tonight and like it so far, but I haven't had much luck yet with my HTPC hooked in via DVI. So far the best I've gotten successfully is 920x540, which looks pretty good considering it's got to be scaled up but obviously I'm not happy with that. :p I can't get it to sync onto any 720p timings yet via DVI; the most I get out of it is scrambled garbage. I've already tried playing around with changing the monitor driver (not that I thought this part would matter much but I tried it anyway :p), checking and unchecking all the various options in the Cat 3.9 drivers, etc., all to no avail. I'll play around with it more tomorrow but any ideas? I've already got the no over/no underscan resolution of 1304x734 entered in, but as I already said, I can't get it to sync onto that as that's a 720p res.

[MadChemst]

Raymod,

I have no idea how you were able to get this to work but I want you to know that you have my complete respect and admiration for doing this. I was hoping to be the first but hey, 5h1t happens. :( I can't wait to go home and try this out. What are your current MID settings for 1280-720? Same as the ones you were using before? Also, which resolution are you gaming in and what are the timings for it?

Thanks for all your hard work! I'm glad that one of us was able to figure this out. :)

Respect,

Josh.

[N3W81E]

Ray, thank you very much, for all your hard work on this. :D also the other peeps in this thread, RW and MC ;)

Now lets all try and get 800x600 to work.......so I can play Need for Speed:Underground :P

I also can't get 1920x1080 to work with PS. Progressive or interlaced with tiling off.

[dwrowley]

Raymod - thanks for your settings! It works perfectly! (Almost :-)

The one problem I have is that when I use the 1304x734 mode and view it in 'Standard' brightness (rather than Pro), there is a slight banding on the bottom of the screen (a slight bluish or reddish transparent band about 1 cm high pretty well all along the bottom of the screen, up about 1cm from the absolute bottom). It is even more apparent in Vivid mode.

In Pro mode, it is pretty well invisible. Any ideas? Running in Pro mode is not a big hardship - I can compensate for the brightness through lots of other techniques.


Thanks again,
David

[MadChemst]

Raymod,

Dear god, this looks amazing. Because of you, my screen is on par with a plasma display. One question I have and I'm not complaining! I am still missing about a half centimetre on both sides but vertical is fine. I definitely have 1:1 since I tested with Nokia's monitor test. Any idea why this is the case?

Thanks,

Josh.

[JinMTVT]

Well since you have adjusted the service MID4 and MID3 values
you have told the set to not use some pannel lines of pixels

this reduces the total available pixels, but you can then get a 1:1 mapping from using an lower rez than the set pannels because they were design for overscanning optically on the screen

this is the only way we will be able to get almost 100% usage of the screen and 1:1 mapping


we still have to figure out how to get computer friendlier resolutions for people using it for games!

[raymod2]

MadChemst: The way I came up with the new timings is pretty straightforward. If you compare the two timing strings it should be fairly obvious what I did. I saw that I was underscanned by exactly 14 lines with my 1280x720 timings. So I subtracted 7 from the vertical front porch, subtracted 7 from the vertical back porch, and added 14 to the vertical resolution. I did a similar operation to the horizontal settings. When you do it this way the pixel clock, horizontal scan rate, and vertical refresh rate do not change. If your horizontal is still a little underscanned just adjust the settings some more like I described. Just note that for some reason it only allows you to adjust the horizontal settings in multiples of 8. With the timings I gave my horizontal was perfect at the bottom of the screen but a little underscanned at the top (my image is slightly trapezoidal which is probably due to a small misadjustment of the optics).

dwrowley: I was not able to reproduce your problem. I used the Nokia monitor test to display an all white screen and I did not see any discoloration at the bottom in Vivid, Standard, or Pro modes. Can anyone else reproduce this?

[dwrowley]

For some strange reason, it is hard to see on solid colors (nokia resolution test, etc.)

I didn't notice it until I was playing video (although I also saw it on some fullscreen photographs as well).

I'm running in Pro mode mostly now and it really isn't that visible. It'd be a 'nice to have' to get it working without the banding in Std mode.

I'll try to take a picture of what I'm talking about, if that would help.

Thanks,
David

[RogerWilco]

If you raise the screen up one tick (in the service menu) does the problem go away? It might be a result of the "convergence problem", although I don't really think its a "problem". I've noticed when I get the borders of the image very close to the edge of the screen I will get a reddish or greenish line running the length of the screen. This may not be what you are talking about, but its the only thing I've noticed that seems close to your description. If I get very close to the screen I can see a greenish border all the way along the bottom of the image and a reddish one on the left side, regardless of where the pictures is plaed, but this effect disappears after stepping 1-2 feet from the TV.

There is a thread about this somewhere titled "GWIII convergence problem confirmed" or something like that.

-RW

[Googer]

My problem seems to have been a bad DVI cable. I bought a 5m cable from Pacific Cable last year and ended up not using it. Just for kicks I bought a 3m Belkin cable at CompUSA. It looks and feels like a lower-quality cable than the Pacific Cable one, but it works and that's all I care about. :p

[Datalux]

dwrowley: I was not able to reproduce your problem. I used the Nokia monitor test to display an all white screen and I did not see any discoloration at the bottom in Vivid, Standard, or Pro modes. Can anyone else reproduce this?

Yes - I can see the same tranparent stripe along the bottom of my set as well. Kind of purple-ish, only noticable with DVD so far because the task bar on the desktop kind of disguises it. I am still using the old 1280x720 timing (streched, with no underscan) with the MID adjustments. I believe it might be due to the MID adjustment being pushed to it's limit along this axis. and it does go away if you raise the screen up a tick in the SM.

I will let you know if the new "raymod2 timings" :D fix it.

[RogerWilco]

Hmm.. Okay I may see what you guys are talking about. I have a transparent, kind of blurry line on both the left and right side of the screen, about 2 pixels wide. I don't have one at the bottom or top though.

[Datalux]

[QUOTE] The one problem I have is that when I use the 1304x734 mode and view it in 'Standard' brightness (rather than Pro), there is a slight banding on the bottom of the screen (a slight bluish or reddish transparent band about 1 cm high pretty well all along the bottom of the screen, up about 1cm from the absolute bottom). It is even more apparent in Vivid mode. [QUOTE]

I just installed the 1304x734 mode and the banding is there across the bottom. It is far more visible using this resolution than the 1280 timing.

Characteristics:

1. Not visible in Standard mode at all. Only Pro and Vivid. (I like Pro for DVD's :(

2. It is not continuous on my set and changes in color from light gold to light green and back.

3. One section in the middel has a weird geometric pattern kind of like this --]_[-_ (about 4" across) This leads me to believe it might be some type of reflection?? as it reminds me of traces on a circuit board.

raymod2 - I too have a trapazoid, but your newest resolution looks great and is 1:1 goodness on my set now. Thanks for all your hard work!

Michael

[dwrowley]

Datalux - yes, this is exactly what I'm seeing (except I can only really see it in Std and Vivid modes). I have the same strange pattern on the middle part of the band (I think you did it great justice in ASCII ! :-)

Moving the vertical position setting does have an impact, but I wasn't able to find a position where it disappeared altogether.

David

[raymod2]

OK, I tried playing a DVD in full screen and I see the translucent bands as well. They are present in both resolutions but you see more of it in the 1304x734 resolution because more of the screen is being used. It looks like some kind of digital artifact to me because it is blocky and changes depending upon the image content. Solid colors are less affected than detailed images. It also responds to changes to the picture setting (Vivid/Standard/Pro). It is present in all modes but most noticeable in Vivid. I don't know what is causing it but I suspect it has something to do with our MID4 adjustments and the image post-processing that the TV is doing.

That said, it is relatively minor. I use Pro mode and I didn't notice it until I went looking for it.

[Datalux]

That said, it is relatively minor. I use Pro mode and I didn't notice it until I went looking for it.

Agreed. Seems everyone can find a setting that works for them to minimize the effects. The benefits certainly outweigh the minor banding issue.

I think you did it great justice in ASCII ! :-)

You liked that did you? ;)

JinMTVT, We expect a full report after the first of the year when you get your new GWIII.

Michael

[JinMTVT]

JinMTVT, We expect a full report after the first of the year when you get your new GWIII.


A full report on what?


By the way, the store we bought our GW3 from called me yesterday,

we are GETTING THE TV TOMORROWW!!!!
HOURRRA :)

can't wait to try and plug my computer in it ;p
i'll let you guys know what i think of it out of the box! :)

[raymod2]

JinMTVT: Your job will be to figure out how to get perfect 1:1 pixel mapping in the horizontal direction. What we have been calling 1:1 is not exactly 1:1 in the horizontal. It is just as close as we can get it. When you do the 1-pixel wide vertical lines display in the Nokia monitor test you can see interference patterns (vertical blurred areas). Adjusting MID4:1 (horizontal size) changes the number of blurred areas you see. The 171 setting minimizes but does not eliminate these blurred areas (there is just one blurred area in the center of the screen at that setting).

I think the problem is due to the granularity of the MID4 horizontal size adjustment. You can adjust vertical size line by line. But the horizontal size jumps by eight pixels at each increment.

I've played around with different powerstrip timings but there you also seem to be limited by an eight pixel granularity in the horizontal settings. I was also surprised to see that modifiying the horizontal scan rate has a visible effect. This doesn't make sense when working in the digital domain. Maybe there is a digital->analog->digital conversion happening someplace.

[JinMTVT]

ah ok :p
and what makes u think i will be able to achieve this :p
ahah :)

i won't have time to play with the HTPC that much this weekend, but i'll give it a good try by next week :)
and on the from the 19th of december i'll be off for 1 full month :)
so this is where i am going to invest time on this set!

we also need to make a good report a la UMR tweak to get all the users on
good settings base for their sets!

as anyone got the full listing of the service menu options and there doings?

we should start a document on that as someone sugested in another thread !!!


How have you come up with the 8 pixels adjustements?
are you sure it is exactly 8 pixels?

If this is right, and if it starts to remove it from 1386 we might have a problem getting 1:1 because of ratios ..
the native rez not beeing an 8 multiple...
closest from 720p from the native rez gives 1360 by 765 conserving the 720p 1.777777 ratio
but we can always stretch a few pixels more on horizontal neway since it won't really deform the image on 1300+ pixels :p


where have you got your "1304x734" from ?
since it's not a 1.7777 ratio and not a native pannel ratio either ??


also it won't ever work for 1:1 pixel mapping if our only adjustement is in increments of 8 pixels .. :(

[raymod2]

JinMTVT: Yes, I am pretty sure the granularity of the MID4 horizontal adjustment is exactly eight pixels. With an underscanned image I held an index card against the screen along the edge of the image and then increased the horizontal size by one step. Then I counted the number of pixels extending beyond the edge of the index card.

I came up with 1304x734 as follows: 1280x720 is underscanned in the vertical direction by exactly 14 lines (determined by counting the number of steps it took to move the position of the image from the top edge of the screen to the bottom edge). So I added 14 to the vertical resolution. Then I calculated the horizontal adjustment as follows:

14 * 16 / 9 = 24.8889

Since the horizontal resolution has a granularity of 8 pixels in Powerstrip I chose 24 as the nearest multiple of 8.

[RogerWilco]

Funny.. I don't seem to see the "banding" you guys are talking about. Do you have the 50" GWIII? Perhaps mine is a little different because my optimal settings for MID4:1 is 173 instead of 171...

-RW

[Datalux]

This might give you an idea of what we're seeing:

[jayfl77]

Anybody running 1024x768? or 800x600? I just bought the 42WE610 and it will be delivered the 19th of December. I want to be able to play some games with my HTPC, but some games (like Need For Speed: Underground) dont support custom resolutions.

[RogerWilco]

Jay,
Nope. Unfortunately I haven't been able to get those "standard" resolutions to work. For the games that don't support custom resolutions I use 640x480. It still, surprisingly, looks good. This is probably because most of the games that don't support custom res are console ports. I play Return of the King and Simpsons Hit and Run at 640x480. My buddy has NFSU and it will run in 640x480 but the menus are hard-set at 800x600. :(

What I would do in this case is navigate the menu's using the svideo output to video 2 or 3 and then switch to the DVI once the racing starts. To my eyes 640x480 through dvi looks better than 800x600 svideo, especially since my radeon 8500 looks crappy at 800x600 (i think this is a know problem where the image looks "dirty" at 800x600 on some of the Radeons).

Datalux,
I assume that this is much easier to see when you are looking at it in person, but from the pciture I can make out what you are seeing. For some reason I don't seem to have this problem, at least I cannot see it yet.

-RW

[jayfl77]

what about over component inputs? is anybody getting 1024x768 at all?

[dwrowley]

I've been watching my GWIII in 1304x734 mode for a day or so now, and in Pro mode I'm not seeing the banding at all. It's a great tradeoff.

I also notice the horizontal size MID4 setting was slightly better for me at 172 instead of 171 (according to the Nokia moire test pattern).

This thread has been a phenomenal resource. When I got my GWIII, I had never used powerstrip before, gone into a service menu, etc.

Thanks to all the people who work hard to figure things out and post the results - I hope I can return the favor some day :-)

Best,
David

[bucephalus]

I've been lurking here a while and was able to use the posted info
for my kf42we610 to get it looking great at 1184x666 with the service menu tweaks. Windows xp looked really good.

I should have left well enough alone, but of course that is not my nature.

I edited the pstip.ini file to experiment with the 1280x720 and 1304X734
settings with the service menu adjustments suggested. This is when the
trouble started. The display is now full of flicker-banding-shimmer and it looks awful.

I tried resetting the service menu defaults and I even formatted and re-installed xp all to no avail. On the re-install I have
the same problem. This is only on dvi everything else is fine.

I'm using radeon 9600 and the catalyst 3.9 drivers.

Can this bell be unrung?

Thanks

[raymod2]

bucephalus: Try unplugging the TV and leaving it that way overnight. I once noticed a problem with a distorted display on a downsampled high definition signal over an svideo input and leaving the TV unplugged over night solved the problem. Just a shot in the dark.

[JinMTVT]

Received the set today!
WOW :)
no dead pixels yet.eveytrhing is perfect for now!

I have to say that our 2700 receiver using svideo looks barely ok :p
ahah the set is really big (50") so we see the stupid pixels alot bigger now!
mpeg compression artifacts are really apparent..

neway all in all
i brought my computer down to the living room,
plugged with my ebay 10$ dvi-d cable wich is supposed to work up to 9gps
( wich is more than i'll ever need)
booted the computer, XP pro SP1 on a radeon 9500 specd' at 9800 pro
and it autodetected the display as a Sony TV display

xp adjusted the display rex to 1280 by 768 ?? wich worked pretty good neway except for flicckers on windows desltop ( but not with anything else..neway .)lots of overscan :p

then i started to cehck out all the avaiblable resolutions..

OMG! :) evereything from 800 600 up to 2034 by something was enable
but no 1280 by 720 ( only 1280 by 768 )
1920 by 1080P was also on wich i tried, and it worked!!! :)

yes you read correclty, i had the tv synced to 1920 by 1080 P!!!! :)
( i had done that a few times with my sony 19" monitor before updating the ati drivers screwed that option for a virtual desktop!! :( )

the picture wasn't at it's best though, full of glimmering stuff
lots of what seemed like descaling artifacts...neway

managed to bypass my current direct show prolems
( this is the reason why i am reinstalling XP this week )
and had a dvd played at 1280 by 768...and it was extremely wow!
also tried an HDTV trailer in 1280p from Matrix revolutions in quick time!
WOW :) definition and details was astonishing!

the i started trying to adjust timing with PStrip for a better rez.
and boum! black screen, VIDEO 7 written on the left upper corner!
yo guys know what this mean ! ;p

so neway wasn't able to get it to synch to anything afterwards..
and i had to leave
i will try next week to set a confortable resolution to get 1:1 with the service menu tweaks that allows us for the full use of the display! :)

all in all, pretty good experiencE! :)

a+

[abarsami]

I have a 42" gwIII ... today I decided to plug computer into tv using my 9800 pro for the FIRST time and I am using 15" lcd -- so res was 1024 x 768.

First thing I noticed is that image was cut off all around. This is because I am using 1024 x 768 right? The tv was in FULL mode.
If I use a resolution like 1280x720 will this fix the problem of image cut off?

The major thing I noticed was huge amounts of flicker ... is this overscan you guys talk about? How do you fix this?

I don't have dvd player in my computer .... but I wanted to see what games would look like.

I did not use powerstrip ... but If I go ahead and use powerstrip and use 1280 x 720 -- will this solve the flicker problem?

thanks.

[Datalux]

JinMTVT,

Congratulations! I had the same issue with my HTPC; I could get all kinds of resolutions with ONLY the ATI drivers installed. After I installed PowerStrip I had to configure everything by hand in PS because the standard resolutions would not work any more....

abarsami,

"All will be known in due time" - Start reading from the beginning of this thread and all of your answers will be revealed...

Overscan is what is getting cut off - it's about 5% on the GWIII's. Ahhhhh! There, I went and answered one of the questions...! :D

Michael

[RogerWilco]

Originally posted by bucephalus
I've been lurking here a while and was able to use the posted info
for my kf42we610 to get it looking great at 1184x666 with the service menu tweaks. Windows xp looked really good.

I should have left well enough alone, but of course that is not my nature.

I edited the pstip.ini file to experiment with the 1280x720 and 1304X734
settings with the service menu adjustments suggested. This is when the
trouble started. The display is now full of flicker-banding-shimmer and it looks awful.

I tried resetting the service menu defaults and I even formatted and re-installed xp all to no avail. On the re-install I have
the same problem. This is only on dvi everything else is fine.

I'm using radeon 9600 and the catalyst 3.9 drivers.

Can this bell be unrung?

Thanks

Try turning noise reduction off in the GWIII user menu. I saw this problem too and that was what caused it.

-RW

[asc]

I had the same problems with flicker/shimmer mentioned here. The only way I was able to get around it was to drop the resolution to 540P or below. For now I have moved to using the component output.

[abarsami]

Originally posted by Datalux
JinMTVT,

After I installed PowerStrip I had to configure everything by hand in PS because the standard resolutions would not work any more....


You mean 1024 x 768 will not work anymore if I install powerstrip? wierd.

[RogerWilco]

Wait, so you guys have got 1024x768 and 800x600 to work?!!!

I need these resolutions badly! If someone has them working can you please post the pstrip timings?

Thanks.

-RW

[JinMTVT]

Originally posted by RogerWilco
Wait, so you guys have got 1024x768 and 800x600 to work?!!!

I need these resolutions badly! If someone has them working can you please post the pstrip timings?

Thanks.

-RW

They all worked for me..all the standard windows resolution + a few others that my catalyst 3.9 driver provided..

from 800 600 to 1920 1080p ..most of them worked

so for people playing games at least we know that it is possible!
there was quite a bit of flickering but it may only be the denoise from the tv..but as soon as it was in action ( movie ) i didn't see any noise anymore

try and find the timings for the original driver resolutions and you should be able to get it right

i am not sure still of what exactly PS do to the setting to screw everything up, because everything was working before i turned on PS!! :(

(and it's stupid revert hotkey didn't work at all!!!! :( )

so my guess is that most people will be able to play games on this set at any normal resolution like 1280 768 wich most engine supports
( looks better than 1280 960 cause of the ratio )
also 1024 and 1152 worked good! )

i'll test more on this when i'll be done with my reinstall of xp
later! :)

[Datalux]

Wait, so you guys have got 1024x768 and 800x600 to work?!!!


Sorry for the lack of clarity...Since installing PS I have not gotten 1024 or 800 to work. I only created the new 1280 & 1304 resolutions that raymod2 figured out the timings for in PS.

The only way I have found to get the standard resolutions to work is to uninstall PS & the ATI drivers, and then reinstall the ATI's. With raymod2's MID4 adjustements, one might be able to make them work with reduced overscan without PS. I have not tried it yet....However in my experience, once you set the MID4 adjustments for a given rez, say 1024x768, you may have to re-adjust them for 800x600 if you plan on switching between different resolutions.

Personally, I really only need them for gaming but I can do that on my main machine in the den. Most games I have tried will either sync to 640x480 (with overscan) automatically, won't work at all (DirextX error), or will accept a "-vidmode 1280,720,60" command line parameter.

Michael

[RogerWilco]

Yes, I actually only want 800x600 because a few games hard-set their resolutions to 800x600 for the menus.

Thanks.
-RW

[JinMTVT]

Beeing a long time gamer,
i would recommend you guys uninstall PS, reinstall the AIT drivers as Data suggested, and let the set run at 1280 by 960
and play with the mid4 adjustements to get it to a no overscan screen

though this should result in a near 4:3 display

( are the pixels elements Square or rectangular on the GWs ?? )

this won't be 1:1 mapping, but i'm pretty sure that the internal scalers or the GWIII are of good quality and the image will only be scaled once for gaming... and twice for dvds/dscaler/video


This would be a good compromise for people that need compatibility in resolutions with games but yet want good details
( the point of playing games on a PC in the graphic department is that you can have it render at high quality in much higher rez than NTSC video game consoles... )

[bucephalus]

Thanks very much for the help.

I tried unplugging the set overnight and in setting things up today I noticed that indeed the noise reduction was turned on in the gw3 user menu. I guess somehow I had inadvertently turned it on causing the
flicker/banding/shimmer previously complained of. Turning the noise reduction off made it all go away.

I'm a happy camper and grateful to RogerWilco for pointing out this simple solution.

Raymod's suggested settings look great!

[be4r]

hei jin mtvt any luck on the timings?

[be4r]

jin does all game work with the 960

[JinMTVT]

yes all games are supposed to support 1280 by 960 wich is a standard windows resolution

also 1132 by 854 is supposed to be in most engines ..

the 1280 would give the best results beein that it is near enough to the end resolution, but not high enough to choke all your video card performances .. so guys with powerfull radeon should be able to turn on AA at 2X and anisotropie and all othe features wich will yeild better pic quality at the end :)

just to tease u guys, i dont' relaly care cause my system rides easily at 60fps+ most games ( uk2003, morrowind) @ 1600 1200 aa 2X et ani 8x :)
WOW :p
hehe

can't wait to get home and try some more settings

[be4r]

get home and please perfect the wega capabilities. YOu are the best

[RogerWilco]

See, the problem for me isn't getting any custom resolutions to work. I can get 640x480 to work on any games that don't support custom resolutions. The problem is that certain games (BF1942, NFSU, etc....) have the menus hard coded to display in 800x600. This being the case, it doesn't matter what resolution you set the game engine to, you still need 800x600 in order to navigate the menus. If I can get 800x600 to work all will be well.

-RW

[be4r]

actually if you did what that guy tell you to do you can play bf1942 but when i watch video aspect ratio messed up for video tried fixing using ffdshow resize it still wont do

[be4r]

Hei jin can you tell me how i get back my previous 720 back i like that better. I install power strip again and went to custom timings and chose that setting but told me to restart and when i restart its screwed up nothing appear and i have to do that f8 to get back to my previous state. Jin your fault.

[JinMTVT]

ahha yeah right! ;p
i didn't install PS at ur place :p

just uninstall ps and reinstall ur graphic drivers
( maybe good time for update if not done yet ... )

i haven't had the time to play with my display at all tonight, since i just finished reinstalling XP on my computer!

also i had to move my Mirage OM-9 with their accompanying BPS-150sub down cause i think they'll work better in the big living room then in my small 10-10 room :p
so that took me some time also!

tomorrow i'll play with it i promise! :p

[be4r]

yeah good i got it to work. I cant wait for your timing dont blow up ur tv

[MadChemst]

I thought this might be of interest to some of you running our GWIII setups with Raymod's custom resolutions. X2: The Threat is a similar game to Wing Commander except you get to make fleets and buy new ships and modify the. (Uber Cool.) The best part is that the game will draw ANY resolutions defined by your driver and directX. Meaning YES, I was playing in 1304-734 last night on my GWIII. (Sick.) Not to mention I was doing it in 1:1 pixel thanks again to Raymod.

GET THIS GAME.

Josh.

[be4r]

is that xmen 2?

[jspeton]

Finally got a chance over the weekend to play with DVI output on my GeForce FX 5200 to my 50WE610. With just the Nvidia drivers I could do no better than 640x480 (well, almost). The monitor driver kept displaying a max vertical resolution of 540 and any attempt to go higher resulted in a virtual desktop which would pan vertically on moving the mouse above/below the top of the screen. I could also do 1920x540 but needless to say this didn't look very good (everything squished horizontally).

After installing Powerstrip I was able to get 960x540 (still lots of overscan, as expected, won't be tweaking the service menu until I get a final rez I'm happy with) which looks good as far as aspect ratio is concerned but of course I want a higher vertical resolution.

I tried defining my own monitor driver and cutting and pasting the 720p timings posted here but could not get a non-virtual desktop of more than 540 vertical lines. Obviously the card must support more than 540 as people use the card with LCD displays at higher resolutions. So it seems I need to convince the drivers that it really can output beyond 540 despite what the monitor is telling the driver. Next step is to try the Sony 900W monitor driver as people here have suggested doing.

If anyone can post the magic to get the Nvidia card to output more than 540 vertical lines I would be most appreciatiative and, of course, if I figure something out I'll post it.

[be4r]

jin you got it yet?

[raymod2]

be4r: If you don't have anything to contribute then how about refraining from posting? This isn't a chat line and your inane babble is getting tiresome. It also makes it harder for other people to locate information in this thread.

[JinMTVT]

Originally posted by raymod2
be4r: If you don't have anything to contribute then how about refraining from posting? This isn't a chat line and your inane babble is getting tiresome. It also makes it harder for other people to locate information in this thread.

lol!! :p

common Ray, don't be to hard on him!

By the way i don't know why you keep asking me for setups,
i only did speculate until now, and tested a few mins with the display.

Ray, data and some others are pretty well more inclined right now to
help you out on getting the good timings and all..

still no time to play with it tonight, still installing and configuring my computer! :)
can't wait to play with it more! :)

[Googer]

My HTPC is currently down (RMA'ing the power supply as the system didn't want to stay on until the power supply warmed up; a 15-20 minute baby-sitting process that I was getting sick of :p) so I can't try this myself, but we may already have perfect 1:1 pixel mapping and not realize it.

Going by umr's GWIII XBR tweaks (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2995102), the default settings have it apparently performing a low-level horizontal filter on the input. The service menu item in question (on the XBR's anyway) is MID5:4 (MHLC). umr says on the 60XBR950 he tweaked its default value was 3 and he changed it to 1. On mine the value already was 1 but I noticed in the Xbox version of Soul Calibur 2 that it got noticably more detailed if I lowered it to 0. My theory of course is that going all the way down to 0 disables the horizontal filter altogether. Perhaps someone else that's got our essentially 1:1 setting working can try this out (it's set properly on my computer but as I said it's currently down :p).

[Perry]

Hello all,

I just have to buy one of these monitors after selling my KL-W9000. The KL-W9000 was basically a Pre-GW. But had the same concept and engine. However, this monitor came with a standard RGB connection. The standard resolutions for this monitor were 864 x 480 @ 60Hz, 1072 X 600 @ 60Hz and 1376 x 768 @60Hz.

Now what does this have to do with the GWIII? Maybe nothing but maybe something. I been reading a great deal of post by JinMTVT regarding the DVI issues.

I think JinMTVT was trying to find timings for the 1386 x 788. I think someone might want to look at this link:

http://www.pc-drivers.net/drivers_monitors_Sony_download_197.html

This shows all the Windows monitor drivers for the KL-W9000. This might be a good starting point in figuring out the correct timings for the GWIII. Since it is based on the same type of technology.

BTW I get my GWIII in a few days.

Perry

[be4r]

Googer does the grandwega xbr tweaks apply to the grandwega non xbr ? the we610?

[raymod2]

Googer: I tried your suggestion to modify MID5:4 (MHLC). Mine was defaulted to 2. At this setting the 1-pixel wide vertical lines test pattern is blended together and the lines look dark gray and light gray. When I brought the setting down to 0 the lines became more distinct and they looked black and white. However, it became more clear than ever that we are slightly off from 1:1 pixel mapping in the horizontal. The one blurred band was clearly visible in the center of the screen.

[abarsami]

So I tried 1280 by 960 ... and set np to off and it looked very good. Nba live ran very good. I haven't tried sm tweaks yet.

I don't have a dvd player, but if I get one and use windvd which would produce better picture?

1280 x 960 OR 1280 x 720 ? Would they be about the same because of the scalar?

Will the picture be better than using a DVI player like samsung or bravo d1?

[Googer]

Originally posted by be4r
Googer does the grandwega xbr tweaks apply to the grandwega non xbr ? the we610? I of course can't guarantee this but I think for the mostpart a lot of the settings are very similar or the same. The XBR likely has more settings that the WE610 doesn't have though, most likely in the form of more banks of service menu items.

[JinMTVT]

I don't have a dvd player, but if I get one and use windvd which would produce better picture?

1280 x 960 OR 1280 x 720 ? Would they be about the same because of the scalar?

Will the picture be better than using a DVI player like samsung or bravo d1? [/B]

I would say that the ending result will be approximatly the same..

unless you are feeding the TV for 1:1, the internal scaler will be used and there is just almost no point in doing big thing over a few pixels processed in software instead of hardware scaler so ...

[mike50]

Originally posted by Perry
Hello all,

I just have to buy one of these monitors after selling my KL-W9000. The KL-W9000 was basically a Pre-GW. But had the same concept and engine. However, this monitor came with a standard RGB connection. The standard resolutions for this monitor were 864 x 480 @ 60Hz, 1072 X 600 @ 60Hz and 1376 x 768 @60Hz.

Now what does this have to do with the GWIII? Maybe nothing but maybe something. I been reading a great deal of post by JinMTVT regarding the DVI issues.

I think JinMTVT was trying to find timings for the 1386 x 788. I think someone might want to look at this link:

http://www.pc-drivers.net/drivers_monitors_Sony_download_197.html

This shows all the Windows monitor drivers for the KL-W9000. This might be a good starting point in figuring out the correct timings for the GWIII. Since it is based on the same type of technology.

BTW I get my GWIII in a few days.

Perry

Interesting, however according to Sony the KL-W9000 native res is only 1068X480.
Would the drivers of either the new Sony P232W LCD(1920X1200) or the SDM-V72W LCD(1280X768) do a better job? The P232W has a DVI input.

Mike50

[Scafremon]

Question on DVI cable:

My ATI Radeon has a DVI-I output, and it looks like the GWIII has a DVI-D input (I don't have my GWIII yet - hopefully this weekend. The difference being the graphics card has the 4 analog pins, while the monitor has a single horizontal stab. I've tried searching for a picture of a cable that shows this, but no luck.

I've also tried searching this thread and forum for a similiar post, but didn't find anything.

Are the ends of a single DVI cable different?

Or will this question simply go away once I actually have a DVI cable and the monitor in my posession, and can see how it works?

Thanks for your help.

[raymod2]

scafremon: Go to www.ddwg.org, click on Downloads, and click on "Download the Spec now!" at the bottom of the page under DVI 1.0 Specification. This document fully explains how a DVI cable works, what the connectors look like, and what each of the pins are for. The short answer is that a single channel DVI-D cable will work fine. That is what I am using.

[MadChemst]

Might I suggest that those of you not owning this set refrain from wasting space on the thread? How about waiting until you own the set before you start taking it apart. I find it difficult to wade through all the asinine comments from people dreaming about this TV. Do yourself a favour and wait until you own the set before you worry about correct timings in powerstrip and PLEASE. If you have nothing to contribute, post elsewhere.

With much appreciation,

Josh.

Thanks,

Josh.

[JinMTVT]

MadChemst: i think you are beeing rought somewhat right now.
This thread will eventually grow to more than 10 pages for sure,
so it will be difficult to browse trhough it neway...

I didn't have the WGIII a week ago, and i think i contributed to this thread at least some bit..

so i'm pretty sure that some others like UMR that doesn't have one but could insert good information/comments can do the same :p

now tohight i shall give it a try with a 2 screen setup using my computer monitor as a back up/second monitor!

let's hope that i'll be successfull :)

[moeronn]

This thread will continue to grow for a long time, with posts from both owners and would be owners. Many people are on the fence with this set partly due to the difficulties getting it to work as a PC monitor. I know that was one of my main concerns whey I purchased it. I have nothing to "contribute" to this thread, but this forum is to share information - and as a result, you will get people who don't own the set asking questions.

Thanks for all the information posted so far. It will definitely come in handy when I actually try to hook up my current computer or build my new HTPC.

[be4r]

Hei jin good luck

[raymod2]

be4r - Can't you take a hint? Nobody wants you here. It is vacuous idiots like yourself that cause these threads to degenerate into pointless chit chat. Go find an IRC channel to chat in and leave us alone already.

[Bongo100]

Originally posted by raymod2
be4r - Can't you take a hint? Nobody wants you here. It is vacuous idiots like yourself that cause these threads to degenerate into pointless chit chat. Go find an IRC channel to chat in and leave us alone already.

raymod2, don't you mean to say that you don't want "chatroom" discussion here? I wouldn't think you would care about the person him/herself. Rather, you want the posts in this thread to pertain directly to the topic at hand which is getting a Sony GWIII to work acceptably with a PC using a DVI connection.

BTW, great work on what you've done so far. I haven't had the opportunity to try it yet on my GWIII, but am looking forward to it. Thanks for paving the way.

[JinMTVT]

guys! stop fighting :p
ehhehe

OK ran tests for 4 consecutive hours !!!

i have only 1 SAD thing to say :

Full 1:1 pixel mapping seems to be impossible
from surface trials and ressource i have tested.

Here is what i did ...


I tested for both vertical and horizontal resolutions using PStrip
with custom timings/rez

with moninfo the Sony GWIII ( 50" for me )
reported an H scan of 15 - 46 khz
V scan of 59 - 60HZ

and total badnwidth of 80mhz

so this is our restraining limits on wich we will have to work with for custom resolution timings..
( i am no expert and do not claim to be in this domain, this is my first experience with an LCD DVI driven dsiplay, and i also have limited knowledge as to signal infos and technical settins of such signals..)

Starting from where Raymod2 has ave us nice info :) ( Tanx alot ray

1304 by 743 was easily attained from PStrip custom configuration
using the same approx settings as used RayMod2...

I then started playing with service menu adjustements
in the MID:4 category ..playing with MID:4 0 to MID:4 3 settings

I was able to attain perfect pixel mapping on the vertical axis
but the horzintal axis was never perfect ( thought i can come extremelly close to perfect mapping )

I then decided that 734 vertical is an extremelly good and easy achievable setting that gives us almost no underscan!!!

so 734 is a keeper!

I also experienced with 744 to see, but that lead to something like 1-2% overscan wich is also pretty good if you have material that need really small overscan to mask signal artifacts ..


I then jumped onto the search for perfect mapping in the horizontal pixels:)

Since most of our cards are from ATI and NVIDIA, we are all restricted to multiples of 8 for horizontal resolutions, and i am afraid that this will lead to a no go for 1:1 mapping technique.

I tested all configurable resolutions from 1384 down to 1280
and i have had no success in getting perfect mapping for none of the above!!!

I refrained from going under 1280 as i will personally not accept anything under 1280, and still 1280 at best scaling to get almost 1:1 gives us MAJOR underscan problem in the order of 5%+
wich is not acceptable on a 50" and 42" display ( wouldn't be that much of a problem for a 60"+ if the seating distance isn't too great ..)

Here are a few timing settings of wich u can attain good quality of picture with almost .9:1 pixel mapping ( hehe :p )

I thought recommend exactly the same as Raymod as this resolution will give a perfet 16:9 ratio with almost no lost of screen space!

1344x734
PowerStrip timing parameters:
1344x734=1344,56,128,192,734,1,3,22,79081,2310

Generic timing details for 1344x734:
HFP=56 HSW=128 HBP=192 kHz=46 VFP=1 VSW=3 VBP=22 Hz=60


1336x734
PowerStrip timing parameters:
1336x734=1336,64,144,200,734,1,3,23,79753,2310

Generic timing details for 1336x734:
HFP=64 HSW=144 HBP=200 kHz=46 VFP=1 VSW=3 VBP=23 Hz=60


1320x734
PowerStrip timing parameters:
1320x734=1320,64,136,200,734,1,3,22,79081,2310

Generic timing details for 1320x734:
HFP=64 HSW=136 HBP=200 kHz=46 VFP=1 VSW=3 VBP=22 Hz=60



I then proceeded on with trying to get computer gaming friendlier timings..
unfortunatly, due to scan frequency limitations i was not able to get good solid settings.


I will be testing for 800-600 and 1280-768 ( wich should be the best available for the display ) later this week
maybe tonight or sunday ..
I was able to get 720-480p to work perfectly
service menu displays 480p when in this resolutiong and 720p when displaying anything near 720p and more!

didn't bother testing any of the interlaced resolutions as this would be a lost of time
( yes even for 1080i wich i guess neway most HTPC user don't use that much, and no point in sending 1080i when the display only gets near 720p)

I will post results on testing for window compatible resolutions later on

Feel secure though, as i previously said, the first time i plugged my computer on this display, i was able to get it to synch to almost every windows normal resolution from 800-600 to 1600 1200
so YES it is possible


Would you guys prefer 1280 by 960 ? or 1280 by 768 ???

the second comes out nearer to the display's ratio but the first is more widely supported although it is a 4:3 setting, and will give better resolution!

Please guys, test this TV as much as possible so we can all find lots of info
( not only confirm as i did hehe )
and we also need to get excellent chroma and luminance settings for this set



BTW: don't set the displays driver to anything at all
let it on plug and play monitor
i was using 2 monitor for testing, normal sony 19" pro crt
and the GWIII
GWIII set as active for desktop and desktop spread to the sony 19"
so all programs like Nokia monitor test openned on the GW
but i was able to set all PS timings on the G400

later

hey..did i tell you that i love this display!!

[JinMTVT]

Also, forgot to tell you about my plans of acction for the perfect 1:1 mapping
and the resulting quality for the present settings..


I try and see if there is any way to "translate" the resolution on the pannels, so that when we use MID4:1 scaling,we could achieve perfect 1:1

i will also try to experiment with lower resolutions than 1280 as horizontal to see if 1:1 mapping is indeed possible with this set


Also, someone with a Parphelia video card with i think are able to synch to by pixel resolutiongs would be able to go for the 1:1 mapping with 100% screen use!!! please someone with a matrx card, try this out with DVI




With the present 1304*734 setting and the good service menu tweaks on MID:4,the quality of the display we get is hot!
perfect pixel mappping on the vertical gives a good acurate representation with solid definition, almost perfect horizontally resolutiong is not that bad, it may help smooth out a little the already small screen door effect i think
because it makes some info blends just a bit on horizontal

played Finding Nemo widesceren dvd just to see the PQ,
i was not blasted away like with HD , but it was hot!
a lot better then when viewing SD movies from Svideo in
and also lot more crisp than when playing the same dvd from a lower 720P resolution

i am pretty confident that this setting will meet requirements of most user for HTPCing this display
so please try it :)

[Googer]

JinMTVT: You didn't make this clear so I'll ask: did you play around with the various signal filtering service menu settings? There's a decent # in MID5 that you can play around with that definitely affect what you see on the TV. :p umr says that changes to the MID5:POP setting won't stick and it's basically just for playing around with and that to actually make changes to it that you want to keep you should change DCP-ADJ2:MIDE instead.

[JonnyCAPSLOCK]

Originally posted by JinMTVT
Since most of our cards are from ATI and NVIDIA, we are all restricted to multiples of 8 for horizontal resolutions, and i am afraid that this will lead to a no go for 1:1 mapping technique.
later

Does this mean you know someone who got an NVIDIA to work?
I have a Gainward Geforce 4 TI 4400 and the only resolutions I've been able to get are:
848x480
960x540
1440x540
It does not seem to want to even touch 720p resolutions.
Oh there is one more but it is hardly worth mentioning:
1980x540 (Really unusable).

Anything else including custom resolutions that have been posted here result in what looks like an 848x480 desktop with a virtual size of the custom resolution, so that if I move my mouse off the screen it scrolls over.

I haven't tried component video. I don't really want to invest in another expensive cable if it won't work.

Anyone have any better luck with NVIDIA? Share you experience.

[JinMTVT]

Jonny, have you tried the 1304 timings has raymod2 has posted direclty?

do you get a black video 7 screen ?

if you get a virtual desktop, then it is a driver problem.
you may want to try to set the display driver to something else then
i have no experience since a few years with any nvidia cards so can't really help you on that one :(


Googer, i do not unfortunatly know anything about any other service menu items than the one i just mentionned

i do not have the service manual, wich i seriously seek now
and i haven't seen anyone make a list of the different use of all the service menu items

do you have a manual ? or a list?

what kind of signal changes could we make in thoose?

[JonnyCAPSLOCK]

Unfortuneatly Raymod2's timings are the ones I tried, and they do not work on the GeForce cards. Or at least mine and another guy that posted here. I've tried using the plug and play monitor and the Sony one that someone mentioned earlier. It just refuses to accept any of those resolutions. There are only the Forceware drivers, formerly detonator drivers. I wouldn't want to use any other drivers or I'd lose functionality. I broke down and bought an ATI 9800pro on ebay. Shipping has been delayed damn it. :-(

I thought I read a post a week ago about someone who had ordered a service manual but it was greek to them and they offered to send it to someone who would be able to make better sense out of it. Maybe it was a different thread.

[Perry]

JinMTVT,

I tried your 1344x734 settings in powerstrip and they look rather good. Text is not perfect yet but it is a great improvement.

I do have a question and comment that might help. First, how do you get rid of the over scan? I think I missed that post on how to do that.

Second, as I said before, I use to own the pre-GW. There was a setting to help with the 1:1 mapping within the service menu. That was under something called the SLSH settings in BIAS3. I am not sure if this exists in the GWIII. But if something existed in the older version there might be a chance there is a setting like this in the GWIII? What this did was basically move over the pixels to allow for them to line up correctly.

Perry

[wkehn]

I've done extensive searches and can't find anything so please bear with me, I am new and just learning all this. I apologize in advance if this is not in the right spot. Anyway here is my current setup followed by my problems/questions:

60" GWIII with DVI cable to PC running a Radeon 8500DV graphics card with latest catalyst driver and directx. At first I had just the driver installed without powerstrip and couldn't get anything other than 640x480 without a black screen/video 7 appearing, is this what happens when it is out of sync? Will this harm the TV?

I went on to install powerstrip and it says to make sure the correct monitor/adapter, min/max resolutions and refresh rates are detected however how do I know what monitor to use. Everytime I delete all the monitors and reboot I get 2 to appear (Plug and Play Monitor and Default Monitor) via the display properties panel in windows, which one is correct? I have physically changed the driver on the plug and play one to the GDM-FW900 that's listed in this thread and powerstrip detects this as the right monitor. Now, I've used raymod2's settings and adjusted the screen via the service menus but it keeps kicking out to a black screen/video 7 no matter what I do. Is there something I am overlooking here? Has anyone gotten the 8500DV to work in this application?

Thanks for your time!
Bill

[mpgxsvcd]

Yes I use the 8500DV to do this. I will write instructions for you at 12:00 PM today because I am busy right now. I had the same problems but I have corrected them. It works perfectly now in true 720p.

[Scafremon]

(Apologies to Josh in advance)

I hope to have my GWIII this weekend, and am in the process of building my HTPC. I have been reading this thread often, and even though most of it is over my head, I hope to soon be able to utilize what I have learned here, and hopefully advise my sucesses.

I don't have much knowledge in the various display settings and what-not you have all been discussing. Generally speaking, are most of you extremely happy using your GWIII with your HTPC, and with all these settings you are just tweaking things for optimum performance, or, are you still trying to basically get things to an acceptable level?

[JonnyCAPSLOCK]

Not with an Nvidia GeForce. I'm waiting for my Radeon, so the Jury's still out.

[mpgxsvcd]

Instructions on how to use an ATI A-I-W 8500DV with a Sony GWIII:
These are written from my own experience so please correct me if I have miss-stated anything or if you think I am just completely out of my mind.

Plug the purple dongle into the 8500DV.
Plug the s-video out from the 8500DV into the s-video in for your TV(Doesn’t matter which input you use)
Turn the computer on and turn the tv to the corresponding s-video input.
Uninstall the ATI Radeon Video Drivers.
Uninstall Powerstrip
Reboot while still using the s-video connection

Reinstall the Cat 3.9 ATI video drivers or the 3.10 drivers if they come out in the next couple of days.
Reinstall powerstrip(You don’t even need the full version.)
Reboot while still using the s-video connection
Right click on your desktop click properties and then go to the settings tab. Check to see if you have 640x480 and 1280x720 as available resolutions for monitor 1. Note: there should be two available monitors on the settings screen.
Mine did not have either of these as default resolutions so I created them with powerstrip.
Run powerstrip
Click on Advanced timing options.
Click user defined settings.
Paste the following settings into powerstrip by copying them and then clicking the paste icon at the bottom of the powerstrip window. Click save settings.
640x480=640,152,48,176,480,28,1,54,34290,1
Do the same thing for these settings.
1280x720=1280,72,40,256,720,11,5,24,75142,7
Reboot while still using the s-video connection
Right click on your desktop click properties and then go to the settings tab. Check to see if you have 640x480 and 12800x720 as available resolutions for monitor 1.
If it has added the 640x480 and 1280x720 settings then you should be able to set the monitor in the 640x480 mode while using the s-video.
Note: You shouldn’t need to have powerstrip start automatically. The correct two resolutions were added to my settings window so I don’t even run powerstrip anymore.

Then shutdown your computer completely. Unplug all of the s-video out and rca video outputs from your ATI purple dongle. Plug the dvi cable into your TV and ATI card. Turn your TV to Input 7. Start your computer.
If it gets to the windows XP screen with the little night rider bar that scrolls across the screen and then it goes completely black or all different colors for more than 30 seconds then your 640x480 timings are off. Turn the computer off and repeat all of the steps. If the computer boots up in 640x480 then check for the 1280x720 setting in the settings window. If it is there then try to set it to 1280x720. It should display the desktop correctly except it will be overscanned on the edges. To get rid of this overscan you have to modify the service menu settings. I don’t want to try to explain this because it can damage your TV and I don’t want you to blame me for that. However, if you are very careful about what you do then you probably won’t mess the TV up. You can follow the instructions on page 2 of this thread to find out how to eliminate the overscan.

[mike50]

Originally posted by JonnyCAPSLOCK
Unfortuneatly Raymod2's timings are the ones I tried, and they do not work on the GeForce cards. Or at least mine and another guy that posted here. I've tried using the plug and play monitor and the Sony one that someone mentioned earlier. It just refuses to accept any of those resolutions.

Have you tried the Sony P232W and SDM-V72W drivers? They are designed for LCD monitors and therefore may be better than that of the Sony GDM-W900 driver.

Mike50

[wkehn]

Originally posted by mpgxsvcd
Instructions on how to use an ATI A-I-W 8500DV with a Sony GWIII:
These are written from my own experience so please correct me if I have miss-stated anything or if you think I am just completely out of my mind.


I will try this tonight or tomorrow and let you know how it works out, thanks!!!


Edit: I just figured out the answer on this first question. n/m

A few quick questions came to mind. I wasn't aware that the S-Video sourced from the purple cable was active unless viewed through the TV application in the ATI multimedia center, am I wrong with this?


What version of powerstrip are you using? I see 2.78 and 3.0 from differerent places. Directx version? Do you have the full catalyst package installed, i.e. multimedia center, ATI control panel or just simply the driver?

[mpgxsvcd]

Yep s-video is always active if you plug it in to the dongle and to the tv. You can actually plug both the DVI and the s-video in and bring it up with both outputs at the same time. However, you are forced to only use 640x480 for both outputs and it is very flaky that way. Try the s-video you might be surprised at the quality. Then plug in the DVI and get that to work with true 720p and no overscan and you will probably throw your s-video cable away. With the DVI cable I really can't tell the difference between my TV and the computer monitor I use. I don't think it matters what version of powerstrip you use.

[N3W81E]

Thank you, JinMTVT, I will join you in the quest of getting the best 1:1, and also the standard windows rez's (8x6, 10x7) soon. ;)

I will be testing with my set next week when my parts arrive to upgrd my HTPC. Don't really feel like tweaking it now since I have to do it all over again next week anyway. Currently, I'm using the 1304x734 and loving it. Which one do you prefer?

My HTPC specs next week:
P4-3.0HT
512 DDR400
MSI Neo2 865PE
ATI 9700 Pro thru DVI
On-board S/PDIF out
U160 SCSI
1x18GB U160 (Boot)
2x200GB WD SE (DVD storage)
Linksys Wireless-G
And of course, Sony GWIII 42"!! :D

[JinMTVT]

bah the resolution you are currently using gives pretty good results!

I will not be home all weekend, so i guess i won't be able to test it further.


Meanwhile , if there is anyone here with a service manual,
a detailed service menu settings list with what it does would greatly speed the process of tuning this display!! ??

There seems to be alot of other settings of wich we might not know in the MID4: range wich could help us get full 1:1


N3W81E: you will have a good setup!! :)


this week i was playing with my SS2 card trying to get HDTV sat to work correctly,i can only still get a few frames/sec
can't wait to get it working properly and try it on the GW :)
all the channels i get from nimiq2 are in 1280 720 so it should give a pretty good result on the GW :)

[JonnyCAPSLOCK]

Originally posted by mike50
Have you tried the Sony P232W and SDM-V72W drivers? They are designed for LCD monitors and therefore may be better than that of the Sony GDM-W900 driver.

Mike50

I just downloaded the drivers for both of those and tried them and I get the same results. I guess I'll just have to sit tight for the 9800 pro. Shipping was delayed by weather. :-(

Thanks for the suggestion though.

[JinMTVT]

Originally posted by JonnyCAPSLOCK
I just downloaded the drivers for both of those and tried them and I get the same results. I guess I'll just have to sit tight for the 9800 pro. Shipping was delayed by weather. :-(

Thanks for the suggestion though.



I thought that by using powerstrip you would be able to bypass the drivers requirements for the display and be able to drive it anything thyat you would wish to???

have you tried using powerstrip???

do you get at least a default screen with the plug and play monitor drivers?

[softengr]

I own the GWIII AND the HS20. I am easily able to get 1:1 up until the full native rez of the Sony Hs20. It has a menu item which allows for switching between computer input and video modes.
In video mode the Sony HS20 always scales and destroys 1:1 mapping. The GWIII behaves exactly the same way. The key question is can you in effect switch to the computer mode on the GWIII. For DVI the mode is always set to "Full". We don't want that. For further info as to what my opinion is please go to:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3011727#post3011727

and read several of the following posts until I comment on the GWIII.

[JonnyCAPSLOCK]

Originally posted by JinMTVT
I thought that by using powerstrip you would be able to bypass the drivers requirements for the display and be able to drive it anything thyat you would wish to???

have you tried using powerstrip???

do you get at least a default screen with the plug and play monitor drivers?

Tell me about it. That is what I thought too. But it seems everyone in the forum has only ATI so I can't compare with anyone. I did use powerstrip and I have set up several profiles for the different default resolutions that powerstrip supplies and am able to get anything in 480p or 540p. But anything outside of that, including the custom ones that you guys have posted results in the lowest resolution 16x9 resolution (848x480) with a virtual or scrollable desktop that is the size of the resolution chosen. Its very frustrating. I'm using the TV right now in 960x540 mode to type this message, so powerstrip does seem to work, just not for 720p on the GeForce video card I guess.

It couldn't be my cable could it? I bought a DVI-D single link cable because that is what the manual said it took. I got it from www dot pacificcable dot com.

I read once that single link maxed out bandwidth at 1280x720, but it sounds like you guys are all getting 1304 and 1344 to work. So I take that as a theoretical maximum. And besides that 1280x720 doesn't work either.

[iamnaeth]

JonnyCapslock,

I spent hour after hour trying to reproduce the the 1280x720 & other resolutions talked about in this forum on my Nvidia Geforce Ti4400. I just proved impossible, the Nvidia cards don't want to go past 540 pixels in the horizontal direction. I broke down and bought a ATI 9800 Pro (Was looking for the 9700 Pro but couldn't find it in a store around here) and needless to say, it was cake to paste in those powerstrip timings. Now I'm trying to find a 800x600 resolution to work because I too want to play some games on this new 50" monitor. Just wanted to let you know that the problem isn't you or your techniques, its the Nvidia cards as wonderful as they are.

[The Executor]

I just wanted to express my thanks to all the contributors of this thread. Furthermore I would like to say that some NVIDIA cards do work. My 4600 Ultra was able to do 1280x720 on the first try. Using powerstrip I was able to get 1344x734 using the timmings previously mentioned on this same thread, so to say all nvidia cards wont work is a bit premature.

[MadChemst]

Gentlemen,

If you really want to make full use of Powerstrip then you need to write a custom monitor driver for your GWIII. This will in turn allow you to use EVERY resolution you can define. This INCLUDES interlaced resolutions along with all the progressive resolutions that Raymod and Jin have managed to extrapolate. In fact, once you're finished with this, there is no reason to ever run powerstrip again. The easiest way to achieve this is to define the set as able to do insane resolutions such as 2248-1920 progressive with 92khz-150khz. If any of you want my GWIII.inf file I made with PS, drop me a line and I'll send it over.

An added benefit of this, btw is that when you look through your displays: I have three :) they are all appropriately labelled. My secondary display is called: "Grand Wega III". Primary is "LG Flat Panel".

"Take it ease"

Josh.

[JinMTVT]

i'm happy that at least some of you are gettin a result :)

the max of this display is the bandwith and the scans frequency accepted

i though had most windows resolutiong worked once on this GWIII
so it will be possible to drive it in 800 600 and 1280 960 and i even had 1600 1200...but i can't reproduce it since i installed powerstrip
neway..i'll do more testing on that matter later on :)


JonnyCAPSLOCK: don't blame your cable, even a low grade dvi that isn't more than 5 meters will easily run 1280p
the bandwidth that we need to run this type of rez over a dvi cable isn't that great..so any good fabrication dvi-d cable should be able to do it without any problems..
blame ur card :p


softengr:

the HS-20 has the same pannels as the GW3...the difference is in the driving unit ( wega unit ) wich doesn't accept the same stuff :

Scanning Frequency of HS-20 : fh 19-72khz, fv 48-92hz
Scanning Frequency of GWIII : fh 15-45khz, fv 59-61hz

this limits us on input by alot :(


then, there is no "computer" switch mode that i am aware of on the GWIII ....unfortunatly!
so getting 1:1 mapping is alot more difficult!

we have been able to get perfect mapping of vertical resolution
but the horizontal is still a problem for most graphic cards because they are only working with resolutions in multiple of 8 where the horizontal resolution of the pannels is not a multiple of 8
and also using the service menu adjustment, doesn't scale by a small value like 1 or 2, so it is pretty hard to get the good rez :(



i suspect that to get perfect 1:1 mapping we will either need to find a service menu adjustement that will translate the complete image on the pannels or we will need to feed it something lower than 1280 wich is just unnaceptable :(

[mike50]

Originally posted by The Executor
I would like to say that some NVIDIA cards do work. My 4600 Ultra was able to do 1280x720 on the first try.

Did you get 1280X720 with no virtual desktop and without using Powerstrip?
Can you please tell us what brand/model is your card and which drivers you used?

Mike50

[JonnyCAPSLOCK]

Originally posted by MadChemst

If you really want to make full use of Powerstrip then you need to write a custom monitor driver for your GWIII. This will in turn allow you to use EVERY resolution you can define. This INCLUDES interlaced resolutions along with all the progressive resolutions that Raymod and Jin have managed to extrapolate. In fact, once you're finished with this, there is no reason to ever run powerstrip again. The easiest way to achieve this is to define the set as able to do insane resolutions such as 2248-1920 progressive with 92khz-150khz. If any of you want my GWIII.inf file I made with PS, drop me a line and I'll send it over.


You had me excited for a minute. I hunted around inside of powerstrip for monitor settings. Not sure why Monitor Information is the section it is under. I never found it before because I thought that was read only information. Oh, well. Anyway I did as you suggested above. I saved the .inf and went in to display properties and changed to it. But it did not change things for me.
Are there any other settings I need to set? I tried to uncheck plug and play but it wouldn't let me, so I guess that setting stays?
Anyway, it didn't ask for a reboot, but I'll try that next and see if that changes anything. I have a TI 4400. I know not a whole lot of people seem to have these. They either have 4200 or the 4600. My card is also by Gainward, Not sure what Mike's manufacturer is but he seems to have the same troubles.

Thanks for all the suggestions. I must say even though I can't get above 960x540 it is still very cool to be able to read the output on the TV clearly.

[The Executor]

Originally posted by mike50
Did you get 1280X720 with no virtual desktop and without using Powerstrip?
Can you please tell us what brand/model is your card and which drivers you used?

Mike50

Mike,

As far as I can remember the 1280x720 resolution has always been on my drivers, so to answer your question I did not use powerstrip to achieve 1280x720, it simply was there and I selected it and enabled the destop and the the tv synched up. By the way I should mention I am using a 60XBR950 Wega, not the regular grand wega III, I dont think it makes a difference but there you have it just in case. My drivers are the standard forceware drivers ver. 53.03. In order to achieve the 1344x734 resolution I resorted to powerstrip, I copied and pasted the timmings which were posted on this thread, knowing full well that they were made for ATI cards but I figured it wouldnt hurt to try it with my card anyway. I was pleasantly surprised to see the tv worked at that resolution on the first try. Also be aware that I have not changed any settings on the service menu so there is some overscan but it doesnt bother me much. Finally let me tell you that before I even got the tv I changed my monitor driver to a Sony GDM-FW900 as per the recommendations of someone in the forum ( sorry I forgot the thread) and my card is a PNY 4600 Ultra. All in all it was pretty straight forward for me and I am happy I didnt have to buy a new card. Hope that helps

[softengr]

Originally posted by JinMTVT
softengr:

the HS-20 has the same panels as the GW3...the difference is in the driving unit ( wega unit ) which doesn't accept the same stuff :

then, there is no "computer" switch mode that i am aware of on the GWIII ....unfortunately!
so getting 1:1 mapping is alot more difficult!

we have been able to get perfect mapping of vertical resolution
but the horizontal is still a problem for most graphic cards because they are only working with resolutions in multiple of 8 where the horizontal resolution of the panels is not a multiple of 8
and also using the service menu adjustment, doesn't scale by a small value like 1 or 2, so it is pretty hard to get the good rez :(



i suspect that to get perfect 1:1 mapping we will either need to find a service menu adjustment that will translate the complete image on the panels or we will need to feed it something lower than 1280 which is just unacceptable :(

As you say by default the GWIII "doesn't accept the same stuff:"

As compared to the HS20 the GWIII has one hand tried behind its back. The GOAL is to see if it has another hand, and if so free it up!

At least ONE person here is starting to "GET IT"!

If the Sony HS-20 projector is set to "video" mode it BEHAVES EXACTLY AS THE GWIII!!! NO TRUE 1:1 MAPPING IS POSSIBLE. Looks like crap. Period.

Read the above statement again!

Multiples of eight... Funny! To be very frank, the testing here has accomplished nothing. Leading to nowhere. A dead end!

I've seen the same HTPC PowerStrip 1280*720 HDTV signal displayed on the HS-20 when set to "computer" mode (perfect beautiful 1:1 mapping) and compared it to the HS20 when it it set to "video" mode. The difference is night and day. The GWIII always looks exactly the same as the HS20 when it is set to its "video" mode.

When set to "video" mode the HS20 (and the GWIII) throw out the perimeter of the data, then its scaler corrupts the rest of the data as it zooms in. Makes for a terrible effect. The formerly pristine DVI based data now looks like crap!

By default, DVI signals always go through the (re)scaler on the GWIII.
Disable the scaler and the 1:1 mapping issue is solved.

Switching to "computer" mode bypasses the corrupting scaler on the HS-20.

"Computer mode is a pure "pass-thru" mode where DVI digital data is left pure. This is WHAT YOU GUYS ARE SEEKING on the GWIII!!!!

It actually takes a lot more processing circuitry to rescale DVI digital data than to simply let it pass straight thru.

Someone with hardware technical experience needs to study the GWIII and the HS-20 service manuals to see if there is any way to disable the scaler on the GWIII!!!!

This is the **** ONLY **** possible solution for 1:1 mapping on the GWIII!

The only question is who is that "someone' going to be?

[JinMTVT]

softengr: wow! i think you are overdoing it right now :p
hahaha

Hs-20 was made for driving computer as we can see from it's usable frequencies and all ... GWIII wasn't

I do not think that there is a "computer" switch inside the GW
and if it was to be fed it's native resolution, it would surely let the signal directly pass trhough ( as trying to resize 1386*788 to 1386*788 would be pretty difficult :p

I don't know if you have read all the rest of this thread, but we were able to get perfect mapping on vertical with the service menu options..
we do not need to go at something more on this matter because we are able to get it perfect and driving it higher or at another resolution would only incurr overscan or underscan

i do not know for sure how the scaler works horizontally and what options there is to play with it, but i am confident that we will find something
if not, well the current settings we are using aren't bad at all
the mapping is almost 1:1, and i guess that there wouldn't bea huge difference from getting full 1:1 except for maybe a little more sharper image ( since we are already at half of 1:1 )


where is the computer switch on your HS20 ?
is ti a external switch ? or a service menu item ?

could you try and use moninfo on your HS-20
to see what it scans for vertical and horiz frequency ?


thanks for your help :)

[Perry]

Hello,

I been playing with this for a while and I am able to get the GWIII to take all the resolutions posted here, however when I go to reduce the horizontal over scan in the service menu, the image just becomes unstable and just seems to start tearing and flickering very badly. Any ideas on how to fix this? If i keep the image over scanned it looks just fine but not very usable.

Thanks,

Perry

[mike50]

Originally posted by The Executor
Mike,

As far as I can remember the 1280x720 resolution has always been on my drivers, so to answer your question I did not use powerstrip to achieve 1280x720, it simply was there and I selected it and enabled the destop and the the tv synched up. By the way I should mention I am using a 60XBR950 Wega, not the regular grand wega III, I dont think it makes a difference but there you have it just in case. My drivers are the standard forceware drivers ver. 53.03. In order to achieve the 1344x734 resolution I resorted to powerstrip, I copied and pasted the timmings which were posted on this thread, knowing full well that they were made for ATI cards but I figured it wouldnt hurt to try it with my card anyway. I was pleasantly surprised to see the tv worked at that resolution on the first try. Also be aware that I have not changed any settings on the service menu so there is some overscan but it doesnt bother me much. Finally let me tell you that before I even got the tv I changed my monitor driver to a Sony GDM-FW900 as per the recommendations of someone in the forum ( sorry I forgot the thread) and my card is a PNY 4600 Ultra. All in all it was pretty straight forward for me and I am happy I didnt have to buy a new card. Hope that helps

Thank you for your reply. The 1280X720res is also part of the 52.16 drivers i'm using, but give me a virtual desktop over 848X480. The 53.03 drivers are apparently not Windows certified as they are not yet available on the NVIDIA site. Perhaps your video card being more recent than mine has a DVI output which is better configured...

Mike50

[JinMTVT]

Originally posted by Perry
Hello,

I been playing with this for a while and I am able to get the GWIII to take all the resolutions posted here, however when I go to reduce the horizontal over scan in the service menu, the image just becomes unstable and just seems to start tearing and flickering very badly. Any ideas on how to fix this? If i keep the image over scanned it looks just fine but not very usable.

Thanks,

Perry


I would try to alter the badnwidth from powerstrip
"pixel clock" it is named i think

try and make it down
most of the timings i posted had a prety close to 80 timing

it shough remove the flickering
if not, you migh still have the noise reduction of the GWIII on
turn everything off from the normal menu of the display

[Perry]

JinMTVT,

Thanks that fixed it. :)

Perry

[JinMTVT]

Originally posted by Perry
JinMTVT,

Thanks that fixed it. :)

Perry

wich ? the pixel clock or the menu settings?? :p

[Perry]

I tried the Menu settings 1st and that seem to fix the first part. But when I put it in vivid mode it seem like nothing had changed. So then I raised the pixel clock by one up arrow and that seem to fix it. The strange this is before it seem to be a horizontal thing. When I put it on Vivid mode, it then became a vertical thing. Every looks very very good now.

[mpgxsvcd]

Does Noise Reduction actually cause noise when using DVI with Computer? I put the noise reduction on for all of my settings on my 50" GWIII and suddenly I got a whole bunch of vertical banding and noise. So I went back and removed the noise reduction from my pro setting and suddenly the noise was gone for that setting. Has anyone else experienced this. Is the noise reduction setting really worth it? By the way with the noise setting turned off the DVI looks incredible on the GWIII with zero overscan.

[MadChemst]

mpgxsvcd,

Well, let's see. The setting on causes all sorts of noise on your screen and when it's off, everything looks perfect. I wonder which setting is right for you? What would posess you to think that you would see noise over a digital cable from a digital source to a digital display anyways?

JC.

[MadChemst]

I have thought of solutions for the gamers in us and I was wondering if any of you had gotten games like NFS Underground to work in interlaced resolutions? I have difficulty with this since my primary display is a flat panel and doesn't sync properly in interlaced resolutions. If I add the 1024-768 and 800-600i resolutions, they replace my progressive resolutions for that display and make a mess of everything. Although interlaced resolutions are a step in the wrong direction, I must say, the GWIII does a serviceable job of upconverting to progressive. There is flicker but consider our 1080i sources on Satellite for a moment. Isn't the display doing the same thing unless the source is a 720P HD signal? I am curious to see how the rest of you are gaming but FYI: X2: The Threat works in ANY resolution your display is capable of AND outputs directsound 5.1. If you have an Nforce2 setup, you can get 5.1 to output to your DD/DTS receiver and the combined effect is quite nice. I have tested Homeworld 2 as well with this idea and it works great as well. (1304-734) Now if I can only get NFS Underground to do custom resolutions too... :)

Josh.

[softengr]

Originally posted by JinMTVT
softengr: wow! i think you are overdoing it right now :p
hahaha

I do not think that there is a "computer" switch inside the GW
and if it was to be fed it's native resolution, it would surely let the signal directly pass trhough ( as trying to resize 1386*788 to 1386*788 would be pretty difficult :p

I don't know if you have read all the rest of this thread, but we were able to get perfect mapping on vertical with the service menu options..
we do not need to go at something more on this matter because we are able to get it perfect and driving it higher or at another resolution would only incurr overscan or underscan

i do not know for sure how the scaler works horizontally and what options there is to play with it, but i am confident that we will find something
if not, well the current settings we are using aren't bad at all
the mapping is almost 1:1, and i guess that there wouldn't bea huge difference from getting full 1:1 except for maybe a little more sharper image ( since we are already at half of 1:1 )


where is the computer switch on your HS20 ?
is ti a external switch ? or a service menu item ?

could you try and use moninfo on your HS-20
to see what it scans for vertical and horiz frequency ?


thanks for your help :)

I AM overdoing it. Why? Look at the lame response here.

You state "I do not think that there is a "computer" switch inside the GW"

You are throwing up roadblocks. It's called a self defeating attitude.

We will not know if the GWIII can do 1:1 mapping until someone examines the service manuals for the HS20 and the GWIII. It may just be as simple as adding a switch to a grounded IC pin!

The computer/video switch is made from the HS20 menu.

I own a GWIII and want the answer just as much as you guys do.

[JinMTVT]

Well then start working on it :p
cause i don't have the Hs-20 and i don't have any of the manuals yet :p

have you compared the electronic boards yet?
do they look alike?

The thing that worries me is exactly that it is alrady possible to do vertical 1:1 mapping. so maybe it's input engine wasn't designed to go further than it goes right now!!

As i previously stated a few times, to go further, we will need to learn all the service menu options and what we can do with it!

But nobody has helped out yet with getting the manual scanned, or typing a list of the avaiblable options and their functions.

i sure hope we will be able to work this out :)


BTW: how do you compare the GW PQ vs your HS-20 system ?
what are the differences of both ?

[Ishman]

In an attempt to keep everything on topic here, I decided to write up a little tutorial on how to get *most* ATI (specifically All in wonder) cards working in raymod2's configuration.

The file is in TXT format, if you would like another format, please let me know.

I tried to be as thorough as possible, but there is a possibility that I might have left a step out, so please let me know if I need to update any information.

Again, thanks for all your help on this thread.

[BruiserBob]

Well guys, I start my install tonight, wish me luck! Ishman, thanks for the summary, can anyone confirm this is correct?

One question, I'm going to be using a DVI-D cable that came with another LCD monitor that had both digital and analog inputs(The guy I got it from doesn't have a DVI card). Is there any reason to expect that this cable shouldn't work?

Thanks to all for the info.

[Ishman]

I forgot to mention that those instructions was for a Windows XP installation, but should be fairly close on Win2k.

Good Luck! If you are a beer drinker, grab a beer before doing this! :-)

[jspeton]

Originally posted by BruiserBob
One question, I'm going to be using a DVI-D cable that came with another LCD monitor that had both digital and analog inputs(The guy I got it from doesn't have a DVI card). Is there any reason to expect that this cable shouldn't work?
If the LCD monitor had both digital and analog inputs, are you sure it's not a DVI-I cable? In any event, the GWIII manual states that one should use a DVI-D single link cable; you should be fine. I think anything except a DVI-A cable should work.

[JonnyCAPSLOCK]

Yes, your DVI-D Cable will work provided your video card has either a DVI-D connector or a DVI-I connector. I learned the hard way. I ordered a DVI-I cable, thinking that it would be compatible with all connectors but the extra pins block it from plugging in DVI-D connectors.

Mark

[BruiserBob]

Sorry, perhaps I was a little unclear, I know it's a DVD-D cable from the pin outs, I was just concerned with Ishman's comment in his file that said:

"If you don't spend at least $60 on this cable then you will regret it, I promise."

That kind of made me think there was some kind of bandwith issue with the cables that I've never heard of before.

[Ishman]

Originally posted by BruiserBob
Sorry, perhaps I was a little unclear, I know it's a DVD-D cable from the pin outs, I was just concerned with Ishman's comment in his file that said:

"If you don't spend at least $60 on this cable then you will regret it, I promise."

That kind of made me think there was some kind of bandwith issue with the cables that I've never heard of before.

I think I was the one that was a little unclear. What I was trying to say, is that there are a great deal of cheap DVI-D cables out there, and I've read about a lot of problems occuring (only green showing, no blue showing, poor resolution, interferance, etc.). I'm sure the one you were using with your monitor will be more than sufficient.

I've learned (in purchasing all this crap) that it's best to stay away from the bargain options when it comes to cables. It's best to spend a moderate amount of money and get something that will last and be guranteed. However, this does not mean that you must go to Best Buy and buy the $100 Monster DVI cable, either. Just stay away from the $29.99 special.

Hope that clears it up. :)
-Ishman

[htwaits]

Originally posted by Ishman
It's best to spend a moderate amount of money and get something that will last and be guranteed. However, this does not mean that you must go to Best Buy and buy the $100 Monster DVI cable, either. Just stay away from the $29.99 special.

Hope that clears it up. :)
-Ishman
There is a lot of experience here in this forum that indicates you can get a well built 2 meter DVI cable for under $20.

[JonnyCAPSLOCK]

I bought my dvi cable at www dot pacificcable dot com. They seem to have middle of the road priced cables. So far I'm happy, although I'll reserve until I get my 9800pro to make sure that it is my video card that prevents me from going over 960x540 and not my cable. But a 5 meter single link dvi-d ran around 40USD including shipping. Make sure you go for the 2 day shipping as it is actually less expensive than ground. Don't ask me why that is. If you buy a 6' cable at circuit city you'll pay $100. Lame! The least they could do if they're gonna gouge you is give you a decent length.

[Ishman]

Originally posted by htwaits
There is a lot of experience here in this forum that indicates you can get a well built 2 meter DVI cable for under $20.

You are correct, and I was wrong to assume that anything under $60 is considered inferior, but you do have to admit that you have to be careful, and typically (from my personal experience) the more expensive something is, the better you are off (to a point).

[be4r]

Hei jin by the way did you get the 960 resolutions to work yet?

[be4r]

I mean the 600 by 800. i got 960 to work. For some reason XIII the game works i thought its 800 by 600

[MadChemst]

I've been successful in running 1024-768 in interlaced mode on the display and it isn't pretty. The same goes for 800-600. I guess my previous theory was incorrect because after playing for more than ten minutes, I get a headache from the flicker. What are you all doing for gaming exactly? The only games I have been able to use are: UT2003, Halo, Homeworld 2, and X2: The Threat. Man oh man. If only I could figure out how to get NFS: Underground to work... that'd be key. I can't seem to figure out where it keeps its resolution settings and I have tried some command prompt options to no avail. Any takers on this one?

Thanks,

Josh.

[The Executor]

be4r,

Could you please give us some more info as to how you got 960 resolutions to work?. Do you mean 960 interlaced?. Please post your timmings, thanks

[JinMTVT]

there is just NO POINT in sending interlaced resolutions for computer gaming use into the GWIII
this is a major lost in quality and in time :p
hehehe but a nice try :)


I will be doing some more tests as soon as i find the time,
my computer isn't connected to the GW all the time, so i have to disconnect all the 245 cables i have behind it and bring it downstairs to the living room for testing

i'll try to get a window compatible gaming resolution to work for you guys:)

it shoud be something liek 1280 960 or 1280 768
though again we have limitations from the accepted frequencies of the input on the GW

wish we could find the "computer" switch :p
haha soft

for now, stop waisting time on 800 600 interlaced :p

[JinMTVT]

Alright...
just finished a 1 hour testing period with powerstrip and my GWIII !!

Here is a working 1280 by 768 resolution timings


PowerStrip timing parameters:
1280x768=1280,80,136,240,768,1,2,6,79740,2310

Generic timing details for 1280x768:
HFP=80 HSW=136 HBP=240 kHz=46 VFP=1 VSW=2 VBP=6 Hz=59



This it is not 1280 by 960 normal resolution
but i know that this resolution works with a few game engines,
and this is the best thing we will get our GWIII to accept neway

i'll now explain on my theory ( please keep in mind that this is only speculations based on only a few known fact , and i am nowhere near having enough experience in this timing signal stuff to say that this is the end... )

After haning succesffully drive the GWIII with a few different version of the 1280 by 768 ( the 2 firsts one were flickering like hell, and the display would get out of synch every minute for a few seconds..neway )
I then tried to have it display 1280 960
wich would be a more regular resolution and could accept almost all gaming modes !!!

I realized only after 30 mins of fiddeling with powerstrip that it is imposisble to send 960P vertical into the set..
the reason is that it is supposed to accept only from 59 to 61HZ of frequency on vertical, and we then have the horizontal for 14 to 45KHZ
and the total bandwith at 80mhz
wich is makes it just impossible to accept 1280 by 960 :(

i am sorry if this is deceiving to a few a you..i know
but i tried every possible combination in powerstrip only to find out by myself that there is no way we could get this resolution timings to fit in the supposdly accepted range of the display

1080i is accepted because it takes just a little more than half of the 960p frequency to display it, thus allowing for a good timing settings

thus this also says that there is no way to make the set accept anything about 786P ( native vertical) or something near it
though there would be just no point in doing so
( isn't the point to scale software from HTPC and bypass hardware scaler from the display here?? ahhaha )

Please feel free to test and play with the 1280 728 resolution timings,
but try to stay under 80mhz or you will experience some filckering and problems with synch on the signal

in the service menu, 1280 768 appears as "HD" signal

and gives side borders of approx 5% on each side

768 can be made to get perfect mapping i'm pretty sure by the service menu, didn't try it though as i was setting my mind on the 960 rez for more compatibility ..


I also took a few minutes to try and have it to synch to 800 600 signals wich i wasn't able to
but i can asure you that it is possible within the frequ. of the set

have fun :)

[be4r]

games that work with 960 is XIII, Maxpayne 2, warcraft 3, epsxe and i used the 960 in power strip its default for my settings. It just work automatically i dont know how it work. Ill post the timings tommorow. Jin is it possible to get 800 x 600?

[JonnyCAPSLOCK]

Originally posted by JinMTVT
Alright...
just finished a 1 hour testing period with powerstrip and my GWIII !!

Here is a working 1280 by 768 resolution timings


I also took a few minutes to try and have it to synch to 800 600 signals wich i wasn't able to
but i can asure you that it is possible within the frequ. of the set
have fun :)

Thanks JinMTVT! We appreciate it. Now if UPS would hurry up and deliver my radeon. I fear that it may not arrive until after the weekend! The person who sent it to me must have sent it super economy where they hide it in the warehouse for a few days to tease you before they send it on its way. I'm fairly certain it doesn't take 10 days to get from the east coast to the west, but whatever.
By the way, I've quoted some text from only two posts ago where JinMTVT answers your question be4r you ask it ;-)

[raymod2]

Originally posted by JonnyCAPSLOCK
By the way, I've quoted some text from only two posts ago where JinMTVT answers your question be4r you ask it ;-)

Don't mind be4r. He's our local village idiot.

[JinMTVT]

Originally posted by raymod2
Don't mind be4r. He's our local village idiot.

lololol :)


games that work with 960 is XIII, Maxpayne 2, warcraft 3, epsxe and i used the 960 in power strip its default for my settings. It just work automatically i dont know how it work. Ill post the timings tommorow. Jin is it possible to get 800 x 600?


well why don't you post your timings asap!!


the first time i plugged my computer on the GW,i had never started pwoerstrip, and i was able to have it to wynch to most major windows resolutions..i think i did 1280 960 adn 1600 1200, this would go against waht i just said, but i don't remember exactly and i never checked to see if it was REALLY in this resolution or if it was a virutal desktop or just not in this resolution at all.. but from my tests with powerstrip, 1280 960 doens't work at all :(

so please be4r, post your timings if you got it to work so we can test this one out asap! thanks

[BruiserBob]

Ok, I want to throw a big thanks to all in this thread for all your information. I Finished building my HTPC last night and followed the info on this thread...The result: SWEEEEET!!!!

It went almost exactly as it was all described, except my S-Video cable(At the beginning) was causing sync issues(which gave me roll). Interestingly I STILL get roll on my ASUS graphic on startup when it's sending 640x480, but as soon as it shows the Raid info screen the roll stops.

I'm currently running 1304x734, happy as a clam. Now if I can just get my audio spdif out to work, but that's another thread.

BTW that DVI-D cable worked just fine.

Thanks guys!

BB

[TreyS]

I have an NVidia GForce3 64DDR and installed the latest drivers last night on my PC.

On the analog 19" monitor I got plenty of resolutions to choose from including the 1280x720.

I shut down and moved the pc to the GWIII.

When I connected the GWIII via DVI the video card thinks I'm connected to a 15" flat panel and defaults all resolutions to a max of 540 width.

I installed PS and pasted the timings in there and it said they weren't supported by the display. I clicked "accept anyway" and the screen got distorted. So I'm stuck at 19xx X 540.

Seems like a simple fix would be to force the card to think there was a bigger flat panel via a different driver.

I don't have anything to test that theory with though.

Another fix would be for NVidia to not take the other resolutions away when a connection is made via the DVI port.

Buying a new card is retarded, but might be the only option to get my pc on the GWIII. If that's the case, NVidia can bite me.


For reference, I just want to surf the web and not play games on the GWIII.

[BruiserBob]

Hey, one more question. Has anyone else tried adjusting the MID5:4 (MHLC)? Does it really turn off some filtering? More importantly, is it specific to the input you're on?

I'm going to Vegas tomorrow, but rest assured I'll be joining the happy band of guys jacking with this to see what we can do!

BB

[Ishman]

Originally posted by TreyS
I have an NVidia GForce3 64DDR and installed the latest drivers last night on my PC.

On the analog 19" monitor I got plenty of resolutions to choose from including the 1280x720.

I shut down and moved the pc to the GWIII.

When I connected the GWIII via DVI the video card thinks I'm connected to a 15" flat panel and defaults all resolutions to a max of 540 width.

Seems like a simple fix would be to force the card to think there was a bigger flat panel via a different driver.

I don't have anything to test that theory with though.

Another fix would be for NVidia to not take the other resolutions away when a connection is made via the DVI port.

Buying a new card is retarded, but might be the only option to get my pc on the GWIII. If that's the case, NVidia can bite me.


For reference, I just want to surf the web and not play games on the GWIII.

Trey,

Do the following:

1. Right click on your desktop, and select Properties.
2. Click the Settings Tab > Advanced > Monitor > Properties > Driver > Update Driver
3. Select the 2nd bullet (Install from a list or specific location). Click Next.
4. Select "Don't Search, I will chose a driver to install"
5. Uncheck the box that states "Show compatible hardware"
6. On the left side, select "SONY Corporation"
7. On the right side, select "Sony GDM-FW900"
8. Click Next, Finish, Close, OK.

Please note that this is utilizing a driver for a monitor that is not the GWIII, which means you will not be able to easily change resolutions from within Windows. You will have to obtain a copy of Powerstrip and use the advice on this thread to get your timings correct. Also, please see my post on the bottom of page 10 of this thread for a TXT file which contains some information you might find useful.

Good luck!
-Ishman

[TreyS]

Thanks for the heads up. Can't wait to go home and give it a try.


Think I'm getting sick now.....must...leave....office..... :D

[JinMTVT]

Originally posted by TreyS
Thanks for the heads up. Can't wait to go home and give it a try.


Think I'm getting sick now.....must...leave....office..... :D

lol ahhaha :)



Here is my personal experience for connecting my GWIII to get it to work with my pc


First i want to say that my DVI-D cable was purchased on ebay, i took the time to be sure that the cable i was buying was supporting high resolutions
( was written up to 9ghz wich i felt was enough ;p haha )
paid 15$USD for it... and it works flawlessly!
so no need for a 60$USD cable :p

What i do is setup my computer monitor ( sony G400 19") at the 1304 by 734 resolution and then unplu my 19" and plug in the GWIII

i have a Radeon 9500 and it always work perfectly

what i do for testing though, is i set my GWIII to be an extended desktop from my 19" monitor, and i then set it as to be used for main windows

so i get all my controls on the 19" and i can test and change de resolution on the GWIII only
this is pretty easy to do, and it gives freedom for testing more quickly!

:)

[TreyS]

Well I did what you guys suggested and the SONY driver was loaded and PS timings were pasted and selected.

Still get the virtual desktop on anything other than 1920 x 540.

Looks like I'll need to start shopping for a used ATi card. :mad:

[rbmcgee]

Just in case anyone from Sony happens to be reading this thread - The inability of the GWIII to plug n play the native resolution @ 1:1 via DVI is the single reason I have not bought one. Note: and I just passed on a great deal.

[JinMTVT]

Originally posted by rbmcgee
Just in case anyone from Sony happens to be reading this thread - The inability of the GWIII to plug n play the native resolution @ 1:1 via DVI is the single reason I have not bought one. Note: and I just passed on a great deal.


We haven't done all the possible testings yet,
and there might be a single service menu option that will bring us 1:1 mapping ..so you might still consider this display

also, the 1304 by 734 resolution with adjusted MID4: settings,
brings perfect mapping for vertical resolution and
extremely close to perfect for horizontal resolution...the ending result is of high quality i can assure you!

;p

[wkehn]

Originally posted by JinMTVT
We haven't done all the possible testings yet,
and there might be a single service menu option that will bring us 1:1 mapping ..so you might still consider this display

also, the 1304 by 734 resolution with adjusted MID4: settings,
brings perfect mapping for vertical resolution and
extremely close to perfect for horizontal resolution...the ending result is of high quality i can assure you!

;p

How can we be sure the vertical resolution is mapping 1 to 1? I did the little notepad test as suggested by raymod, and with my resolution set to the 1304 x 734 every other line shows a blurry equal sign. Don't get me wrong it looks incredible, but I just want to be sure I am getting 1 to 1 or more than likely doing something wrong.

Thanks!

[mike50]

Originally posted by rbmcgee
Just in case anyone from Sony happens to be reading this thread - The inability of the GWIII to plug n play the native resolution @ 1:1 via DVI is the single reason I have not bought one. Note: and I just passed on a great deal.

Maybe we should all write Sony to ask for a driver for this display...

Mike50

[JinMTVT]

Originally posted by mike50
Maybe we should all write Sony to ask for a driver for this display...

Mike50

Seak out and download Nokia monitor test

this little nice app has a bunch of tests taht adapt to your desktop resolution

you can use the "resolution" tests that provides black and white lines of 1 pixel alternativly to see what kind of mapping/scaling your system is doing

with the vertical resolution and Raymod's resolution and settings, you should easily see why we say it's perfect mapping on vertical
u can see half the scren becoming all blurred in grey just before it goes to the right setting.. this is pretty obvious

with horizontal it is less obvious though, since the closest to 1:1 i've got
is a complete good looking pattern that is roughly stable in strength all across the display

again you will see what i mean when u will get there

when adjusting service menu MID4:1 you will see larger "grey blocks"
becoming more and more dispersed until almost everything is looking good, then it will start becoming more apparent again ..set the MID4:1 to the point where everything is euqal in white/black stripes

good luck :)

( use right and left click on the nokia test software to access different options in each mode.. )

[raymod2]

Originally posted by wkehn
How can we be sure the vertical resolution is mapping 1 to 1? I did the little notepad test as suggested by raymod, and with my resolution set to the 1304 x 734 every other line shows a blurry equal sign. Don't get me wrong it looks incredible, but I just want to be sure I am getting 1 to 1 or more than likely doing something wrong.

Thanks!

It sounds like you aren't adjusting the service menu MID4 settings.

[be4r]

PowerStrip timing parameters:
1280x960=1280,116,80,172,960,38,17,101,55178,9

Generic timing details for 1280x960:
HFP=116 HSW=80 HBP=172 kHz=33 VFP=38 VSW=17 VBP=101 Hz=30

Linux modeline parameters:
"1280x960" 55.178 1280 1396 1476 1648 960 998 1015 1116 interlace +hsync +vsync

this is what i use for 960 it work with games like XIII, warcraft, maxpayne (looks really good on the wega) , epsxe. I could b4 play battle field on my original drivers not with powerstrip just as what jin said of getting all the windows res without using power strip and just by letting windows decide.

But i get underscan by alot with those res windows decided on. Jin work on the 800 by 600 if its possible

[Ishman]

Anybody find timings that would work for the native resolution of the GWIII yet? I've been trying with no avail. :confused:

[raymod2]

Originally posted by Ishman
Anybody find timings that would work for the native resolution of the GWIII yet? I've been trying with no avail. :confused:

What is it with you people? How is it that you know how to write but not how to read? Use the 1304x734 timings and adjust your MID4 settings as described earlier in this thread. Sending the native resolution (1386x788) to your GWIII would be pointless since it would result in significant overscan after you adjusted it for 1:1 pixel mapping.

How hard is it to understand that some of the pixels on your LCD panels are projected to areas of the screen that are hidden by the cabinet? If you can't see these pixels it makes no sense to drive them.

[be4r]

itll grow moldy i tried that. Do you know how to make it crisp and clear without the mold?

[JinMTVT]

Originally posted by be4r
PowerStrip timing parameters:
1280x960=1280,116,80,172,960,38,17,101,55178,9

Generic timing details for 1280x960:
HFP=116 HSW=80 HBP=172 kHz=33 VFP=38 VSW=17 VBP=101 Hz=30

Linux modeline parameters:
"1280x960" 55.178 1280 1396 1476 1648 960 998 1015 1116 interlace +hsync +vsync

this is what i use for 960 it work with games like XIII, warcraft, maxpayne (looks really good on the wega) , epsxe. I could b4 play battle field on my original drivers not with powerstrip just as what jin said of getting all the windows res without using power strip and just by letting windows decide.

But i get underscan by alot with those res windows decided on. Jin work on the 800 by 600 if its possible


The settings you just posted are for [b[ INTERLACED[/b] resolution.

Wich you shoulda void at any cost since it is extremely low in PQ!!!
so you aren't driving it 1280 by 960
( that's what i thought.. cause i don't think it can be done properly)

please don't post interlaced timings, this will only confuse readers :p

i'll try and work on the 800 600 when i'll have some more spare time!

[JinMTVT]

Ishman : Raymod is correct, there is no point in sending it it's native rez because of the fixed optical overscan on this display, you are only driving more pixels than it is needed.

We thouh haven't yet achieved 1:1 mapping wich is what we should concentrate our efforts on right now.

Still waiting for someone to write up a list of the service menu items, or to copy in pdf the complete manual!

where can we buy this manual ?

[be4r]

I didnt know that thats a interlaced ill use your other 960 settings. Thanks for the tip.

[JinMTVT]

Originally posted by be4r
I didnt know that thats a interlaced ill use your other 960 settings. Thanks for the tip.

it's ok..

however i do not have any other working 960 timings...

so i think you should stick with 1280 768 and set it for good mapping vertically with the MID4 settings

if you can use this resolution in most of your games, you will be ok!

else wait until we get 800 600 working :(

[RogerWilco]

Hey guys.

Might there be any way to get the timing for 800x600 when it is working with the default driver install. It has been said that 800x600 is possible before installing powerstrip. Is there any way to get to this working state and then grab the timings that are being used?

-RW

[JinMTVT]

Originally posted by RogerWilco
Hey guys.

Might there be any way to get the timing for 800x600 when it is working with the default driver install. It has been said that 800x600 is possible before installing powerstrip. Is there any way to get to this working state and then grab the timings that are being used?

-RW

That is exactly what i tried to do after my reinstall of XP...
but i wasn't able to do it, dind't find any way to get the timings

what we could do though, is try and search for info on the timings used by the default monitor from our drivers in 800 600...
as an exemple for me it's catalyst 3.9

i don't know where to start looking for that though...any idea?
might also be in the monitor drivers though

what we should concentrate on since i don't think 1280 960 will be available


is 1024 by 768 , 768 beeing pretty easy to get, and will also give perfect mapping on vertical scale

this is a standard windows resolution and all the games i know of that might be interesting :p , can use this resolution

it is also 64% higher in total resolution than 800 600 so ...

[themarshall]

1024x768 would be awesome, preferable to 800x600 IMHO. I just want to be able to play Battlefield on this thing!

[Perry]

Got a few quick questions.

So basically we want 2 resolutions? One for games and the other for DVD etc? So each time you were to change resolutions you would have to adjust for over and under scan in the service menu? That would be a big PIA.

Also, has anyone thought about contacting the maker of powerstrip and seeing if they have the ability to make a driver for the GWIII?

And I could have sworn that I read in the past that powerstrip has the ability to do a resolution within another resolution?

One last thing. This number I think is for sony parts (800) 488-7669. Give that a try and see if you can get your hands on the sony GWIII service manual.

[JonnyCAPSLOCK]

Originally posted by Perry

And I could have sworn that I read in the past that powerstrip has the ability to do a resolution within another resolution?



I believe I remember reading this somewhere too. Not sure how that works, but this would be ideal, then we could leave it in 1 to 1 resolution and just fill in the underscan for each smaller resoluion with black.

[mike50]

Originally posted by Perry


Also, has anyone thought about contacting the maker of powerstrip and seeing if they have the ability to make a driver for the GWIII?

A

Sony should provide this driver as they do for their PC LCD monitors.

Mike50

[JonnyCAPSLOCK]

Well, I'm pretty sure I got stiffed on eBay for the 9800pro. I couldn't wait any longer, so I bought a 9200se to tide me over. I go the glorious 1304 resolution.

I have a few questions. First, now that the text is of course finer I can see bright flairs off of the letters. I thought I saw this before but finer text really makes it obvious. What should I adjust to compensate? Is this what they call white crush, or is this a low quality DVI cable?

Also, I played a DVD using WINDVD4 which came with my old video card. I see what you mean about how great the quality is. I was drooling. One quesiton though. I do see what they used to call Jaggies back in the day on still images editing. Not sure if they are called the same on moving video. These appear most often on straight fine lines, like shingles on a roof, etc. that are at a slight angle. It also happens on the edge of the brims of cowboy hats and fine paterns on clothes sometimes do this too. Is this caused by the upscaling of 480 lines to the resolution we have defined? Is this something that is remedied by better DVD software? This software is probably a couple years old, I think WINDVD is on version 6 or so now. If so, what DVD software does everyone recommend. I hear a lot of things about zoom player and theatertek.

Thanks in advance.

Mark

[JonnyCAPSLOCK]

Actually now that I get a look on a dark background it appears it is just ghosting. It's like a ghost image of of each character that kind of interupts the next character. It just looks worse with white on black, but yellow on blue you can still see it. It is worse in pro mode, which makes sense since pro mode basically gives the image a slight blur to hide artifacts correct? I believe I remember seeing this same affect with the svideo out when following the instructions to initially set up the TV.

[coder090]

I emailed Sony a request for the 1:1 mapping via their website. As I expected, I was forwarded to phone tech support. I have feeling this will be way beyond the scope of the normal tech call. But it is a place to start. If anyone else wants to call Sony, the info is listed below. If enough volume of calls come in, perhaps it will be looked into.

------------------

Thank you for contacting SONY Online Support.


The issues you describe will require more extensive troubleshooting and communication than can be effectively handled via e-mail. Please contact our Customer Information Service Center by phone. This will allow our telephone technicians to diagnose your issue further. They may be reached at the following:

Phone: (800) 222-7669

Monday-Friday 8:00 a.m. - 10:00 p.m. (EST)
Saturday & Sunday 9:00 a.m. - 8:00 p.m. (EST)

Wishing you a Happy Holiday Season!

The Sony Internet Support Team
Online Support and Services Center
CVB9
José

[MadChemst]

I now know of two games that support completely custom resolutions.

X2: The Threat
Beyond Good and Evil

Beyond good and evil looks sickening. I had some people over while I was playing and none of them could believe it wasn't FMV.

1304-734, 6xAA with 16xAF

ENJOY THE SHOW :)

[MadChemst]

Sony is NOT going to help you. Read your manual. It states clearly that they do NOT want you to drive this set with a PC. What makes you think they're going to change their mind. Try not to give them your serial # in case they decide to blacklist it for warranty. Don't be stupid. This is something we need to figure out on our own. ALSO. Why do people keep asking for drivers for this display? You have to be a complete moron if you haven't already figured out how to write one with powerstrip.

Josh.

[JonnyCAPSLOCK]

Ok check out this URL and someone with a geforce 4 or above try this and see if this is our problem.
I would do it but I just speant several hours changing my card to a radeon and would not want to change back unless I know its going to fix the problem.

http://www.entechtaiwan.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15


Mark

[JonnyCAPSLOCK]

I did search on resolution in a resolution and within a resolution and anything else I could think of. I found a lot of news group articles and web articles that would mention it as a side note of what to do if you can't get rid of overscan in a specific resolution. But none of them explained how to do it, or where to go to find out.

I finally found this URL with a very brief explanation of how to do it.

http://pub28.ezboard.com/fentechfrm4.showMessage?topicID=26.topic

In short, if I understand it right, it appears that you would paste the timings for 1304, or 1344 or whichever resolution is closest.

Then you click the lock geometry box and adjust the resolution to 1024x768 or 800x600 and then add the resolution to your user defined. The question remains will this actually show up in the settings as a standard resolution that a game would recognize or not.
I'll try it later tonight. If anyone else has time today let us know your results.

[Ishman]

Originally posted by MadChemst
Sony is NOT going to help you. Read your manual. It states clearly that they do NOT want you to drive this set with a PC. What makes you think they're going to change their mind. Try not to give them your serial # in case they decide to blacklist it for warranty. Don't be stupid. This is something we need to figure out on our own. ALSO. Why do people keep asking for drivers for this display? You have to be a complete moron if you haven't already figured out how to write one with powerstrip.

Josh.

Dude. Not everyone here is a God when it comes to this crap. I know I certainly fall under the category of a person that just wants things to work and don't need to know everything there is to know about it. I have the utmost respect for a lot of you taking the time to figure this out, and help the people that all have VCR's flashing 12:00.

I happen to think that it is quite difficult for me to write drivers for my display, but I don't consider myself a blithering idiot. I do admit that I have assumed some incorrect things, but all in all, I do not really appreciate feeling like I'm stupid for just being an honest guy wanting my PC to work with the $3k TV I just bought.