The wait is over, Paradigm Signature S8

[billfish]

I've been waiting with eager anticipation like many others for Paradigm's first truly high end speaker. The wait is over, I received a pair from Sounds Deluxe in Naperville, Il. on Wednesday.

They are big, 48" tall, 8" wide, and 20" deep. I think they weigh about 90 lbs. They are ported front and rear. No flat surfaces, sides and top are gently curved. The cabinet must be very well brased as they are really solid. Very nice bi-wire connection panel. Plenty big enough to handle a wide variety of cable.

Only available in birds-eye maple now but rosewood and black soon and maybe other finishes. The finish is spectacular. They have a beautiful brown grille that is supposed to be an integral part of the speaker. There is a lot of engineering that went into the grilles and the speaker does sound better with the grille on - tames the beast a bit.

Right out of the box they sounded great. Placement in a two-channel stereo set up is critical. Six inch moves are noticible. Eight to ten inches from the back wall is recommended and twelve inches is better. Toe-in recommended and required. I have them fourteen feet apart focused one foot behind the sweet spot.

After just forty hours of noise at night and music during the day they sound outstanding. It is hard to imagine they will sound better after one hundred hours. Mid range and tweet is unbelievable - womens voices are amazing. It is hard to imagine that this speaker is designed as part of a multi-channel surround system. It is truly wonderful in a two-channel set up and I can only imagine what it must sound like with matching S20's, and matching center, and sub in a home theater. I saw the matching center channel however and it will pose some interesting placement situations - very big and very heavy.

I expected this speaker to be on the bright side - particularly out of the box. It is not, it is very smooth, just a perfect high end, very detailed.

While Paradigm speakers have always been known to work well with a wide variety of hardware, these speakers are so accurate I fear I will be researching better hardware to match.

I've had good speakers in the $4M neighborhood over the last four years but these are, to my ear, much better. These do a better job across low, mid, and high.

I can't wait to see what the pros say but I can't say they will affect my decision to buy!

[DenisT]

Your impression of these is similar to my initial take posted here

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=320931

When I listened to the S8, the total value of the gear used was about CAN$16,000 - 18,000. On my way home I droped into another shop and listened to a $50,000 tube setup with upsampling DAC. It was mind-blowing, but you are going to have to go that high to get much better sound.

Keep us updated after listening to them for a while and especially on what hardaware you feel is a good match for these puppies.

[9volt]

got pics?

[billfish]

9volt,
i have a digital camera but don't know how to put pics in this thread. would be happy to take a couple pics if you can or want to tell me how. maybe in a private message or i do know how to send in regular email if you prefer.

DenisT,
i am already looking for new amp and pre-amp but not tube - maybe should be but i have a big CD collection with great recordings on Dorian, Reference, Pope, Chesky and RealTime. maybe all this digital is lost in tubes?

The S8's are getting better by the hour. of course i've moved them three more times. i have tape all over the floor with a lot of notes as moving these beasts as little as possible will be better on my back. i am sure placement will be much more critical in my 2-channel set up than it would be in a surround set up. right now i'm trying to place them so they don't bounce off the top of my four foot square coffee table that houses the front projector for my HT set up. my wife won't allow the moving blanket i had on the table earlier this morning! she has no understanding about this stuff. i was however shocked the other day when i set up the S8's out of the box as she has never commented on any of my equipment. she said, boy do those sound good - was playing Dawn Upshaw, White Moon.

[bob53]

Bill,

Congrats on such nice speakers! I just had a chance to audition the new S8's, S2's, center (huge) and new ADP signatures in a nice acoustically treated room. Overall I am very impressed, these speakers capitalized on the speed, dynamics and soundstaging of the Paradigm Studio line and really smoothed out the upper mids and treble - the weak spot of the Paradigm Studio line. I have a Paradigm Studio system for HT and was trying to decide on a good pair of 2 channel speakers and was looking elsewhere. After an hour of listening, I think I may have to pick up the S4? for my 2 channel system. The finish is amazing. I did side by side comparisons between the S2 and the 20's and the S2 is much smoother and has a bit more information and detail.

-Bob

[9volt]

Originally posted by billfish
9volt,
i have a digital camera but don't know how to put pics in this thread. would be happy to take a couple pics if you can or want to tell me how. maybe in a private message or i do know how to send in regular email if you prefer.


billfish, i sent you a pm

[F355]

i think all of us would like to see pics :) i think there's an attach buttton in the "post reply" page.

[DenisT]

Billfish

The tube gear I mentioned was hooked up to a speaker worth $15,000. The S8 was hooked up to a new Anthem high end amp. What I meant was that you would need to spend CAN$50,000 to get significantly better sound than that produced by an S8 + Bryston amp and pre and say an Arcam FMJ CDP (= CAN $16,000).

I'm not certain that a tube amp could deliver enough juice to run the S8's. I was using a Classe 100 wpc amp on my Studio 100's v2 and that was not enough for good bass. The Bryston 3BST at a measured 150 wpc did deliver good bass (2 woofers/speaker). The S8 has 4 woofers per speaker and IMO, for optimum bass you might need 200 wpc or more for the S8's. I'd want to hear the S8/amp combination before buying it

[Threecard]

Any thoughts on how the sherbourn 7 /2100 would handle the 8's? What have others compared these too? I'll be speaker shopping next year, and some of my stops will be dali euphonia & helicon, dynaudio assortments, and the sig series by paradigm.

[billfish]

Threecard,
not many comparisons yet as the Signature S8's are too new. there will be opinions soon however as Paradigm is shipping. i can tell you that you owe it to yourself to wait to listen to the S8's before you buy. these are fantastic speakers and i now have 60 hours on them and they are amazing and i am only using decent hardware. i will be testing with a better amp and pre amp next week and can't wait.
billfish

[Steve*MH]

Billfish,

Is there actual literature available yet from Paradigm on the Signature Series? An actual catalog with pics, specs, etc. as they do with their other lines? Just wondering if the place you purchased the Signatures from had the literature available also?
Also, did the dealer have any info on the new Anthem Statement series? Just wondering if that was on your list for a Prepro and amp to go with the Signatures. It is my understanding that the two were almost made for each other--ie providing the large amount of pure power to really get the best out of the S8's.
I believe both the Signatures and Anthem Statement are shipping, but waiting for some info on the websites and some actual literature.
Thanks.

[9volt]

here are some pics courtesy of billfish:

http://www.athenet.net/~mtr/s8-1.jpg

http://www.athenet.net/~mtr/s8-2.jpg

[billfish]

Steve*MH
no literature or catalog yet at Sounds Deluxe but i'm happy i have the the real thing first! yes, i will be hooking up Anthem hardware next week and have also heard it is a good marriage. however, these speakers play awfully well with just regular stuff.

[bob53]

Bill,

I am envious, that is quite the setup - in addition to the speakers which are very nice might I add, the in-wall mounting of your gear is very nicely done! The S-8's are very nice but a bit too spendy for me and so I will be looking at the S-4's. Did you have a chance to hear the S-4's? I heard the S-2's and S-8's but not the S-4's

-Bob

[Grandarf]

nice pics & speakers!

Maybe I missed it, how much do a pair like that go for?

And I seem to be missing something, nothing on Paradigm's website yet?

[bob53]

I can help out here:

No listing yet from Paradigm.

The cost for the maple finish:

S-8 (Studio 100): 6500.00
S-4 (Studio 40): 3000.00
S-2 (Studio 20): 2 ish

There are less expensive finishes that lower the price by 10-15%

They may look very similar to the Studio line but the finish is amazing and the sound is much better than the Studio line (I felt that way). I listened to the S-2 and S-8 against the Studio 20 and 100 and they were much smoother yet more transparent. Very nice indeed.

-Bob

[Threecard]

Billfish..how about the center channel pricing? Are those the price paid...or msrp? I am looking at new speakers coming up, and these may be something to check out! BTW, I live in Cloquet, MN...not far from you:) Might have to make it down sometime ! 3c

[billfish]

Grandarf,
no, Paradigm doesn't have much on their site yet but do a general search on the Paradigm Signature S8 and you will find some articles and pictures.
Threecard,
i don't know pricing on the center channel - pricing came from Bob53. i'm just running 2-channel. a 5.1 or 7.1 would be a little beyond me. hum, maybe i'll sell my car. these S8's are really good. listening to a RealTime disc now, a 20 bit mastered, For Duke and Fatha, an M & K Sound disc and i thought Earl Hines was in the room.

[bob53]

Threecard,

Yep I was the one who posted the pricing as Stereoland in Eden Prairie has the S-8's, S-2's, ADP's, and the big center in stock as a demo. I think the big center goes for 3000.00 or even 3500.00 (whoa!). It is huge! I have no idea what the smaller center goes for. If you are interested, I think you should go take a listen. Ask for Terry, as he has always been good to me and tell him Bob from Rochester sent you :). BTW - I just spoke with them today re: the S-4's and he thinks they shoudl be coming in within the next 2-4 weeks. If and when I pick up a pair of S-4's, I'd be happy to have you down to my place. Keep in mind I am a student and so my room is not ideal! BTW I too have a Sherbourn 7/2100 :)

[Threecard]

Bob..ya 1/2 copied my system:) I am looking into these, dali euphonia, dali helicon, and a few other speakers...the more to demo the better:) Thanks for the info..I may take a visit if need be! 3c

[bob53]

Hmm... I saw your website with your gear - nice setup! I am jealous of the 7200 PJ as i am looking at PJ's at the moment too :) PM me with your email and maybe we can chat further about demos and dealers :)

[Allend619]

billfish are those M&K's 150 for your HT. Did you get the new speakers to replace them or just for music.
Allen

[Grandarf]

Just saw the S8's at a local shop!

7700$cdn, nice looking! (they were in a light mapleish finish)

Heard for 5 minutes about, different experience than listening to bookshelves thats to say the least :p

Not something I'd see in my condo though!

Anyhow, they're pretty impressive!

If I'd had known they were there I would have brought a few cd's!

[/end review] :D

[bob53]

I hope billfish isn't responding b/c is so fixated by the S-8's that he cannot stop listening :)

I'm going up next weekend to give the S-8's and S-2's a more extensive eval and may order the S-4's at that time

-Bob

[Andy Lammer]

FYI: Natural Sound in Kitchener, Ontario has them on dislay in there main listening room, as well as the matching centre channel. A mighty fine looking speaker !

- Andy

[bob53]

Andy,

Did you get a chance to listen to them? Impressions? Have you compared them to the Studio v3 or v2 line? Just curious.

-Bob

[Grandarf]

the center just looks mental too :eek:

[billfish]

Allend619,
I do have an M & K 7.1 set up for theater. I'm running S-250 THX F/C/R/LS/RS, S-250 THX Tripoles LR/RR, and two MX 5000 subs, one front left and one rear right. I would not replace this system with anything at this time, I love the system. I happen to think sat/sub is the way to go in home theater as it takes care of a lot of placement problems and is definitely more tunable. I bought the Paradigm Signature S8's for a dedicated 2-channel music system. They are without a doubt, the best music speaker I have heard but I have not auditioned $10M plus speakers and I can't say what a 5.1 or 7.1 Signature system sounds like. I bet it is tremendous. They would really have to for me to ever consider replacing my M & K set up. With a good processor, I have a Lexicon MC-12, sat/subs are a tweakers delight and M & K do sat/subs as well as anyone.

bob53
Did I miss something? Was I to respond to you? If so, I apologize. Was your question about an SP 7200 directed to me? Please either PM me or re-phrase any question in this thread and I will be happy to respond. Sorry for any misunderstanding.

[LEVESQUE]

I just received my S8 yesterday. But they are still in the box (working all week-end).

Will break them for 100 hours before posting my judgement.

Like you Billfish, I bought them for 2 ch stereo.

[kal]

Originally posted by LEVESQUE
I just received my S8 yesterday. But they are still in the box (working all week-end).

Will break them for 100 hours before posting my judgement.

Like you Billfish, I bought them for 2 ch stereo.
Levesque: If I'm not mistaken, you had the 100v3's prior to the S8's. I'll be very interested to hear your thoughts on the difference between the two.

Glad to hear that you bought them mostly for 2ch stereo as I have a sneaking suspicion that there probably isn't that great of a difference between the 100v3's and the S8's if all you use them for is 5ch Dolby Digital or DTS movies. DD/DTS movie bitstreams are so highly compressed, I'd think that a lot of the details that make the S8's better then the 100v3's may be lost, or simply not worth the added expense for many/most people.

After the breakin, pop in a movie or two as well and let us know what you think!

Thanks,

Kal

[LEVESQUE]

Kal.

I had the Studio-100 v2 only. The Studio-100v3 didn't impress me enough to buy them. But I did change all my surrounds from v2 to v3 (Studio-40 and Studio-20) and center (CC-570).

So I can't really comment on the Studio-100v3.

It will be a long week-end at work... :(

[bob53]

Billfish,

My comment was actually more of a tongue and cheek joke as you has not posted in a day or two and a few people had asked some questions and so I just said... I hope he is fixated in front ogf his new speakers :) More because I think I may end up getting the S-4's and want to hear feedback from users about the Signature line :) If I have any further questions, I'll send you a PM. BTW What amp are you using to power the Signatures?

-Bob

[billfish]

bob53,
i have been listening, over one hundred hours now, about 50/50 music/noise. i am running Denon monoblock amps POA-S10 at 150w. seems to be plenty for the S8's but the new Anthem 2-channel at 250w should be better. i'll be getting the new amp the middle of next week - brand new model.

kal,
i had Studio 100 v.3's in a two channel set up just two weeks ago before receiving the S8's. i thought they were terrific and better than the very fine NHT 2.9's i replaced. the s8's though are much better. much smoother and i thought the v.3's were smooth, and much more dynamic. the tweet is tremendous, in its own enclosure! be prepared for some moving however as i can practically guarantee most people would move these at least five times to find the sweet spot, i'm still peeling up masking tape from the carpet after eight moves! also, tables like coffee tables in-between listener and speakers are killers.

[LEVESQUE]

Billfish.

You should wait for the new Anthem Statement line of amps. I think they will be awesome with the new Signature speakers. They are coming in a month or two... I'm not sure the Anthem amps on the market right now will make your Signature speakers shine like they could. With quality speakers like those, you need a quality amp.

When I first bought my Studio-100, I did ask my Anthem rep (not my dealer...) which Anthem amp I should use, and he told me to go with the Bryston 4BSST! Talk about honest customer services from Anthem!

But the new Statement line of amps will be in a completely different league. I just pre-ordered the new Anthem P5 (5x325w!!!).

My S8 are powered by a Bryston 4BSST (2x350w).

[billfish]

LEVESQUE,
i will be anxious to hear your impressions of the S8's because you are using in a 2-ch set up. i actually hope you don't wait for 100 hours, i'd be interested in your out of the box impressions however brief.

regarding the Anthem amp, i was told i would be getting a Statement next week - the new 80 lb. 2-ch brute. i think the 3-ch tip in near 100 lbs.! i would not plan on running S8's with a current Anthem. i hope i'm not going to be disappointed next week - i've been almost as excited to receive the amp as the S8's.

[muad'dib]

Hi everyone, just got my signature speakers last week,, and WOW...

I got the S4's and the C5 center (had to buy the stand, as my 27inch tv could not hold the monster)..

Right out of the box, the mains sounded awesome... so did the center... Voices sounded so real, and like the singer was right in front of me singing...
The speakers totally disapear... leaving only a huge sound stage and excting detail..

I look forward to breaking them in,..

The C5 is just so natural sounding and very REal for the voices... Al much as I loved my CC-570, the signature C5 and the C3 are just awesome....

I am using a mc-12 as the pre, and the rotel rmb-1095 to drive the speakers... Found this como very very awesome...

-chris

[kal]

Originally posted by billfish
kal,
i had Studio 100 v.3's in a two channel set up just two weeks ago before receiving the S8's. i thought they were terrific and better than the very fine NHT 2.9's i replaced. the s8's though are much better. much smoother and i thought the v.3's were smooth, and much more dynamic. the tweet is tremendous, in its own enclosure!
Billfish, do you notice much of a difference between the 100v3's and the S8's in a 5.1 movie setup? Just curious - I dedicated 2-ch listening days are long gone I'm afraid so I'm curious if it's worth picking up the S8's over the 100v3's if 5.1 movies are all that they're being used for...

Originally posted by muad'dib
Hi everyone, just got my signature speakers last week,, and WOW...
I got the S4's and the C5 center (had to buy the stand, as my 27inch tv could not hold the monster)..
Chris, is the Signature center stand the same as the one used for the CC470/570? Post some photos if you get a chance! I'm sure many would love to see them... I know I never get sick of seeing good quality equipment in it's home environment! :)

Kal

[bob53]

muad'dib,

Post some pics! I really would like to pick up the S-4's. Did you compare them to the S-8's or the S-2's? BTW My dealer just gave me the Signature brochure.

-Bob

[Steve*MH]

Bob53,

Is there anyway you can scan and post the Signature brochure? I think many would love to actually see some literature from Paradigm on the Signature series. Thanks.

Billfish,

Wow, an Anthem Statement amp by this week?? Were you given any other info or literature on the Statement series? Any other specs? Anthem has been fairly tight lipped about the Statement series up to this point. If you have any literature, would love to see it here.

[kal]

Bob - if you do manage to scan the Signature brochure, I can post them on a web site for people to access if you like! Send me a private message if you like!

Kal

[RU Geekman]

Any thoughts on how the S4s might compare to B&W's Signature 805? Both are premium-priced stand-mounted speakers in approximately the same price range. The S805s are $4,150/pair with stands; does the $4,000 price quoted for the S4s include the stands? Here are some of the key features of the S805:From Beststuff.com:
The Signature 805 incorporates three major categories of advancements: (1) new drivers, (2) improved crossover componentry and, (3) a new enclosure; not to mention beautiful new “signature” exterior finishes. Driver refinements begin with the tweeter, which utilizes the now-famous Nautilus tapered-tube loading (which reduces unwanted back-wave radiation) enhancing clarity and detail, as well as B&W’s familiar and attractive “pod” mounting. This contributes in no small way to the reduction of image-destroying reflections. Compared with its predecessor, the Signature 805 tweeter extends high end response by nearly an octave, to a fully DVD-A/SACD-ready 50 kHz. It accomplishes this by employing a stiffer (yet lighter) connection between the dome and the aluminum drive system.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, the Signature 805 woofer utilizes B&W’s widely acclaimed woven-Kevlar diaphragm material for unmatched strength-to-mass. This pairing, along with B&W’s beautiful craftsmanship, heavy internal damping, and rock-solid construction provide great freedom from internal standing waves that can “muddy” your sound. The Signature 805 bass driver plumbs the low frequencies with a magnet structure 40 percent larger and similarly more powerful than its precursor, it yields quicker, more agile bass response and even greater dynamic potential.

For the Signature 805 crossover, the B&W engineers were satisfied with changes to only a few key components from those in the already highly developed Nautilus 805. The new, handpicked crossover capacitors are more compact versions of the ultra-low-loss devices used in the original Signature 800. Combined with high-power film-type, heat-sink-equipped resistors, these make the signature difference, for subtly improved overall transparency and bottom-end detail.

When B&W went to refine their proven 'Matrix' Enclosure and its internal construction, consisting of a complex assembly of interlocking bracing, they were truly challenged to find much room for improvement. In the end, the Signature 805 development team did achieve further stiffness gains through several small construction details and materials choices. Attention to these many small details can spell the difference between a merely good, and a truly great product.

The Signature 805’s exterior finishes are another story, offering the same choice of drop-dead-gorgeous, hand-selected, hand-rubbed finishes as the original Signature models: gray Tiger’s Eye or red Bird’s Eye veneers.

[billfish]

kal,
i have not had the S8's in my 7.1 HT set up, i'm using seven M & K S-250's. if I had the new Paradigm center i'd try the S8's even using the M & K sides and surrounds but its a mis-match and probably wouldn't work very well. i've heard people say before that they got new speakers that they thought were so good that they went through their entire music collection just to hear what they have been missing. this is what i am doing with the S8's. with good software from the likes of Reference, Dorian, RealTime, etc. the sound is fantastic.

Steve*MH
i did not get the Statement amp last week but may get it this week. my dealer does have info now on the two and three channel Statements so you should be able to inquire at some Paradigm dealers. i don't believe all Paradigm dealers have access to Signature and Statement yet but probably will soon. rumor has it that a Statement 2-ch amp may have shipped to my dealer last Friday. only rumor and i only wish.

[musicphile]

Hello Billfish & Levesque,
How are the S8's working out for you guys, now that you may have had a couple of hundred hrs or so on them?
I plan to be driving mine w/ Bryston 4B-SST (I thinks one of you has it too) and MC-12. The other 5 channels, for cc5, sig ADPs plus a pair of SA-35 will be driven by 9BSST. I just changed my order from rosewood to bird's eye maple finish (took a week to convince the better half!), and, the dealer told me I should have it within a week. The ETA on rosewood is early Feb., '04 at the earliest and glossy piano black is early Jan. I couldn't wait!
Also, did you have any quality issues in terms of tweeters developing an issue (big dimple) as it did on initial lots of CC570 and Studio 100 v3?
Thanks and looking forward to hear from you.
Regards.

[muad'dib]

Hello all, I have included a photo of the C5 center speaker and stand...

Tried to resize picture, but quality suffered a bit...

-chris

[muad'dib]

Here is another photo of my S4's with stand and C5 with stand... Just to show what the 3 speakers look like together...

-chris

[bob53]

I'll get the Sig brochure scanned Thursday. I was sick with the flu the last few days.

-Bob

[Doubichou]

muad'dib:

Is the stand for the center C a matching stand. I am picking up a pair a studio 20 and a cc470 tomorrow with J29 stands for the 20s. I'd love to get that same stand for the cc470 if it matches the J29.

[Grandarf]

muad'dib: That tv really looks out of place with those speakers :p The setup would look very nice with a 84 inch screen in the center!

And as I said before the center just looks mental! :D

How much does the center go for?

To quote Bob53The cost for the maple finish:

S-8 (Studio 100): 6500.00
S-4 (Studio 40): 3000.00
S-2 (Studio 20): 2 ish

C5 = ?

[kal]

Thanks for the pictures Chris! Though I must agree with Grandarf - the size of that center channel (C5) is going to make a lot of TV's look pretty small! :)

Kal

[Steve*MH]

Bob53,


I am looking forward to the scan of the Signature Brochure today sometime. Thanks for taking the time to do it. I will check back often today to see if it is posted.

[bob53]

Ok, here are a few important pages from the brochure. No time to scan more tonight, sorry. Hope this helps

[bob53]

the crossover

[bob53]

Speakers

[bob53]

speakers 2

[bob53]

Center channels

[bob53]

Sub and ADP

[bob53]

Colors

[bob53]

Uh,

Let me try to work on the image quality, I did not realize how poor the images turned out. Here are some of the highlight fromwhat you can't read:

Drivers - encased in very large heatsinks that act like B&W Nautilis driver enclosures to reduce standing waves

Crossovers - Polypropylene caps, air core resistors, silver clad wiring that is braided. No soldering however

S-2 - LFE 38 Hz, 91 dB sensitivity, 3rd order crossover at 1.8 kHz

S-4 - LFE 36 Hz, 91 dB, 3 order crossover at 1.8 and 2nd order at 400 Hz

S-8 - LFE 28 Hz, 91 dB. 3rd at 1.8 and 2nd at 250 Hz

C-3 - LFE 32 Hz, 92 dB. 3rd at 1.8 and 2nd at 250 Hz

C-5 - LFE 25 Hz, 93 dB. 3rd at 1.8 and 2nd at 250 Hz and 2nd at 150 Hz

ADP - LFE 65 Hz, 90 dB. 3rd at 1.8 and 2nd at 250 Hz

Servo - LFE 11 Hz, 1200 watt class D amplifier with 4500 peak

[muad'dib]

Doubichou,
yep, the stand for the C5 is the same series as the stands for the S4's... That being the "J" series...

Man, I wish I had a larger t.v. . movies seem to sound much better than the picture I'm looking at... Oh well.... Must wait for my new 51" t.v.

-chris

[bob53]

Chris,

How much does the C5 center run?

How are you liking the S4's? Did you compare them to the Studio line?

-Bob

[Steve*MH]

Billfish and LEVESQUE,

It seems you guys preordered the Anthem Statement P5 amplifier and said that perhaps it may be in this week. Have you guys received the amp yet? Any word from the dealer when you might? Any info/specs/literature from the dealer on the P5 yet?
Any info would be great. Can't wait to hear more about this monster amplifier.
Thanks.

[billfish]

musicphile,
the S8's are "working great". i am well over 100 hours and couldn't be happier. i don't think they required 100+ hours however. all that have listened so far thought they were great out of the box and certainly do sound better with some breakin but to say they are really different after 50 vs. 100 hours is very subjective. i think it is important to get them in your house, unwrapped, and warmed up (as some may have been pretty cold in transit) before playing. then give them some good full range music and some noise when you are not listening for a few days and you'll fall in love again. gee, i sound like an advertisement - but i'm not - they are just that good. no tweet problems but this is a new tweeter and a new, special, very special, enclosure.

Steve*MH
apparantly Paradigm won't take orders for the Statement series until they are in full production. i gave my dealer an order that he will place when given the thumbs up from Paradigm. i had hoped i would get one the week before last which didn't pan out, and then thought last week. not. new rumor is they are close to shipping the first units and could do so 12/23/03? information is now available at your dealer - not hand out advertising yet however. it is amazing how this speaker, the S8, has now driven me to upgrade to better components. i really shouldn't be doing this. oh well, can't take it with you!

[musicphile]

Thanks Billfish,
I am glad that your S8's are 'singing' now. Since I changed the order from rosewood to bird's eye maple, they just arrived. I will give it a few days and then do critical listening.
Right out of the box, they seemed to have terrific imaging compared to v2 100s, but not very 'smooth' yet. This is all only during the very 1st hr. of listening. I am sure that after at least 50 hrs., they will smoothen out, same happend to my 100 v2s when they were new earlier in the year. The signature ADPs are truly nice looking and sound really good, and, I needn't say anything about the C5!
I went the other way on the upgraditis, upgraded other components prior to speakers!
Enjoy your signatures.
Regards, Musicphile.

[muad'dib]

The C5 runs for about $4400 CAN...

I am loving my S4's more and more evey day... Just so real sounding, and the soundstage, wow...

Before I had these babies, I had the cc570 and studio 40's v.3... Which by the way are awesome speakers... The signaure lines sound more natural, more detail in the mids, and highs are smoother... The soundstage is also much impovec (not like it need it, the reference line did an awesome job).

-chris

[Yosh70]

I had the Studio-100 v2 only. The Studio-100v3 didn't impress me enough to buy them.
Thats pretty funny....you told me on another forum your dealer exchanged all your V2's for V3's for free....I know I would upgrade for free if I had the chance. Your reason not to is.....???

[Felgar]

Would it be possible for someone who has a brochure to rescan it? It would be very much appreciated.

I guess my main question is what the impedance rating of the S4 and S8 is. Does someone have the answer to that?

Right now I'm piecing together a 9K cdn system, with about 7K for the speakers. At the forefront is the S4 for mains, the C3, a servo-15 from the reference series, and probably reference S20's. These come in at a comparable price to a similar mix from the B&W 7 series and CM line. Has anyone put them up against each other?

I've read from people who preferred the Reference series to the B&W 7 series, so you gotta think that the Signature should be better... I think I better see what my dealer will let me get away with in terms of bringing it all home for a listen. :)

[DogBean]

Levesque did trade in all his speakers for v3s - but after listening, he decided that the cabinetry and build quality of the v2 100s exceeded that of the slight benefit of sound reproduction of the v3s to justify the swap - even if it was free.

[LEVESQUE]

Thanks DogBean.

I don't have to type it... :D

My dealer did offer to exchange the Studio-100v2 for v3 for free, but I refused. My ears, my choice.;)

I'm to busy in the holiday season to do a critical listening session of my new S8. But so far so good. I like them alot. The imaging is awesome.

[Yosh70]

he decided that the cabinetry and build quality of the v2 100s exceeded that of the slight benefit of sound reproduction of the v3s to justify the swap - even if it was free.
Boy good thing you were around to answer my question for him....I wonder if Paradigm knows they took a step backwards when they developed version 3 of the Studio 100's :rolleyes:

[sfi]

Billfish,
Nice set up but lets move the speakers and sub out from the wall (12 inches) and you should see an extra dimension to the sound field. The center is better than my Paradigm 11s. I just listened to these speakers today in Colorado. I live in the same area as you do and I could not fine those speakers in IL. I also have Paradigm and I LOVE them beyond all others.

[ChrisDixon]

I don't think that it's safe to assume that a new version of a speaker is obviously better. Speaker technology has not evolved at the same rate as say, electronic processors. A step forward for some is a step back for others, it just boils down to a "different" sound. That's all there is, since you are not usually considering a feature set. For what it's worth, I found the v3s to be brighter and more fatiguing than the v2s, though I wasn't able to a/b them both in the same room like Levesque. To others, that may translate to "more revealing". When I looked closely at both, it was by no means an obvious choice (I kept my v2s as well).

Chris

[phunge]

Sometimes the changes to a speaker have more to do with lowering productions costs rather than increasing performance.

[barry_pont]

I just had the pleasure to listen to the S8 and S4's. They are some very
musical speakers. Home theater was pretty good too. The 100v3 were
awful, I went looking to buy the 100s but I would not even think about it
now. I am down to the M&K 150 and a few others.

[desualt]

Originally posted by barry_pont
The 100v3 were
awful, I went looking to buy the 100s but I would not even think about it
now.

You don't like the color? their shape? the sound maybe, what are you talking about?

[billfish]

sfi,
my S8's are in a two channel only system awaiting the new Statement 2 channel amp. the sats you see in my pics are M & K S-250's, seven of them with two M & K MX-5000 subs for my HT. while it doesn't look like it, the S8's are 9 1/2 " from the back wall focused (angled) toward the sweet spot intersecting 12" behind the perfect listening location. my subs are only 8" from the back walls but they work very well in those spots, one front left and one rear right. the only place they sounded any better was when I had them stacked front right but that created a completely different problem not at all related to AV.

levesque,
heard anything about your Statement yet? my trail has gone a little cold.

[Felgar]

Well, I think I'm set on the S4's for Home Theatre and occasional music. I did a pretty extensive comparison today against the B&W 7 series. I didn't think the S4 blew the B&W away though. 2 in our group liked the S4, and one was undecided. I thought the S4 were more "lively" and less laid back than the 705's. At that point it almost came down a preference rather than a clear superiority though. The S4's were apparently brand new out of the box but the 705's were quite well broken in... But not knowing how much to account for this factor we decided to rule it out when making
a decision.

Just before we left the shop we listenned to our favourite demo song one last time on the S8's and they are extrremely good. There was one piano solo sequence where the notes just lept out of the speakers - actually the lept off the sound stage - quite amazing. The guy at the shop figured given the high frequencies of the piano, the S4's should sound just as good when their broken in. I'd already decided on the S4's, but if they break in to sound that good then I'd place them clearly above the B&W 7 series.

At any rate, I think my speaker quest is over. I'm now in the market for a pair of S4's, a C3, a pair of S2's, and a Reference Servo 15. I eventually expect to have 2 servo-15's, but right now the budget doesn't allow it. This was my first real extended period with the servo 15 and I like it a lot - much better than anything else I've demoed so far, but that does not include anything from SVS or HSU.

[Oskar25]

Paradigm S4 = $4000 per pair
B&W 705 = $1600 per pair

I would say the B&W 705 did pretty well in your comparison considering it is $2400 less.

[Felgar]

Erk... The paradigms a LOT less in Canada. Like, 3400 cdn for the cherry finish. The 705's are 2200 cdn a pair. Now really, to be completely fair I needed to demo against the 703's which are about 3700, but they didn't have them in. Instead we demoed with a sub and I paid much more attention to the highs than anything in the lows. I was trying to get a feel for the tweeter and upper-mids of the 700 series vs the Paradigm series, as well as their imaging capabilities.

But yes, the b&w's did remarkably well. For that kind of price difference I'd be all over the b&w line if I lived in the US. I have absolutely no problem recommending the b&w to anyone that can get into the 700 series - they are a fine speaker.

Edit: Oh, and I'd say that the 700 line takes the Studio series hands down. So if pricing for you is comparable between those two lines, then b&w would be a shoe-in.

[musicphile]

Signature vs the 700 series!!
Comparing a speaker sound right out of box of one make w/ a well broken in of the other make should not be a guide for comparison. Let them both break in, have the exact same electronics, cables, room location etc. and then compare. Otherwise, there is no basis for comparision!! I am really upset w/ many dealers who continue to do this at their store.........let the speakers, electronics, etc. all break in first prior to demoing it for people, is it too much to ask? :confused:
Happy new year. Musiphile

[Felgar]

Fwiw, we were using the exact same equipment in the exact same room, at the same volume. I agree though, why not just break them in for all the trouble it would be to leave them on each night for a week. It's not like they don't have the space or the equipment to do that.

[barry_pont]

:confused: The sound of the 100v3 were muffled in the high end and little in the midrange I noticed on the dvd demo with X2. Music sounded better but still feeled not so natural. I expected a large increase, in sound
quality over my bp30s which is not the case.

[TjMV3]

Originally posted by Yosh70
Boy good thing you were around to answer my question for him....I wonder if Paradigm knows they took a step backwards when they developed version 3 of the Studio 100's :rolleyes:

Maybe I'm wrong, but the impression I got was, that he felt the laminated (no real wood veneers) cabinet was a step back, and the audible improvements of the Studio 100 V3's, weren't enough to warrant switching out.

[xswl0931]

Sorry to get this thread back on topic, but official MSRP prices are available in this press release (http://www.hometoys.com/ces_2004_news.php4?section=enhancedview&id=18670032).

Model Introduction Breakdown
Signature S2 is a 2-driver, 2-way bookshelf/stand-mounted speaker with 1-inch G-PAL™ dome and 7-inch MLP™ mica-loaded-polymer bass/midrange cone. MagneShield™ included. 15” high x 8-1/4” wide x 14” deep. Match with PREMIER™ J-29 stand. $1,900-$2,200/pair, depending on finish.

Signature S4 is a 3-driver, 2-1/2-way bookshelf/stand-mounted speaker with 1-inch G-PAL™ dome, 7-inch MLP™ mica-loaded-polymer bass/midrange cone and 7” mineral-filled polypropylene bass cone. MagneShield™ included. 22” high x 8-1/4” wide x 14” deep. Match with PREMIER™ J-23 stand. $2,600-$3,000/pair, depending on finish.

Signature S8 is a 6-driver, 3-way floorstanding model with 1-inch G-PAL™ dome,
7-inch MLP™ mica-loaded-polymer midrange cone, and four 7” mineral-filled polypropylene bass cones. Outrigger feet, optional spikes, MagneShield™ included. 48-1/2” high x 8-1/2” wide x 20-1/2” deep. $5,400-$6,000/pair, depending on finish.

Signature C3 is a 4-driver, 3-way center channel with 1-inch G-PAL™ dome, 4-inch dedicated MLP™ mica-loaded-polymer midrange cone and two 7” mineral-filled polypropylene bass cones. Outrigger feet and MagneShield™ included. 9-1/2” high x 26-1/2” wide x 13” deep. Match with PREMIER™ J-18C stand. $1,500-$1,700/each depending on finish.

Signature C5 is a 6-driver, 3-1/2-way center channel with 1-inch G-PAL™ dome, 4-inch (102 mm) MLP™ mica-loaded-polymer midrange cone, two 7-inch MLP™ mica-loaded-polymer bass/midrange cones, and two 7” mineral-filled polypropylene bass cones. Outrigger feet and MagneShield™ included. 9-1/2” high x 37-1/2” wide x 17-1/2” deep. Match with PREMIER™ J-18C stand. $2,500-$2,800/each depending on finish.

Signature ADP is a 5-driver, 3-way surround/rear speaker with optimized reverberant soundfield. Two 1-inch G-PAL™ domes, two 4-inch MLP™ mica-loaded-polymer midrange cones and one 8” (210 mm) mineral-filled polypropylene bass cones. 13-1/4” high x 14-1/8” wide x 7-1/2” deep. $2,300 -$2,700/pair depending on finish.


Signature Servo. A single 15” driver, Closed-Loop Servo system in a sealed enclosure with built-in 1200-watt Ultra-Class-D™ high-current, hybrid output amplifier. 19.5” high x 18” wide x 21” deep. $3,200-$3,500/each depending on finish.

[xswl0931]

Based on the Canadian prices quoted in this thread, it would appear that these speakers are not any cheaper in Canada but in fact the same price given the exchange rate.

[DogBean]

Originally posted by Yosh70
Boy good thing you were around to answer my question for him....I wonder if Paradigm knows they took a step backwards when they developed version 3 of the Studio 100's :rolleyes:

Actually - if you think about it, it does make sense that Paradigm would lessen the quality (at least in the finish) of the 100s because they are/were trying to transition the 100s from their prior flagship position to their new second tier position. I mean, the dealer was not going to offer Levesque a free swap to the S series...

Anyways - I've seen Levesque answer that particular question a few times on various forums so I just figured I would plug it in for him. Maybe he should just put that in his sig! :D

[xswl0931]

Just because the Studios are no longer the flagship reference series for Paradigm, I don't think that is a valid reason to have them as laminate instead of veneer. The fact that it's still part of the reference series, it should have veneer. The flagship Signatures can have "exotic" woods. Other speaker companies with cheaper (in price and sound) speakers can offer veneer, it seems rather backwards that v3's are in some ways less than v2. What if Anthem decided the next AVM20 3.0 will have a plastic case once the Director is out?

[RU Geekman]

Going with laminate might have allowed Paradigm to keep prices on the v3 lower than would otherwise have been the case (due to inflation, R&D, etc., since the v2 came out four years ago).

[xswl0931]

Possibly, but then they should have offered veneer as an option.

[Felgar]

Originally posted by xswl0931
Based on the Canadian prices quoted in this thread, it would appear that these speakers are not any cheaper in Canada but in fact the same price given the exchange rate.

Yes, I agree. They may be a little cheaper in Canada relatively speaking, but not too much. Looks like the post below was off by about $1000, and looking back Bob53 also stated $3000.

Originally posted by Oskar25
Paradigm S4 = $4000 per pair
B&W 705 = $1600 per pair

I would say the B&W 705 did pretty well in your comparison considering it is $2400 less.

[Felgar]

Fwiw, here's the Canadian list prices for the different finishes as I remember them. I only wrote down the laminate and only my speakers, but I'm pretty sure the rest of the figures are correct if I've recorded them. Should fill in a few gaps anyways. Next time I'm in I'll record the other prices if I remember.

speaker pair (single centers) - real wood price - laminate price
S2 - ???? - 2400
S4 - ???? - 3400
S8 - 7700 - 6900
C3 - 2200 - 1900
C5 - ???? - ????
ADP - ???? - 2900

[DogBean]

I think Paradigm was worried that if they offerred a veneer option that it would begin to canabalize the more expensive S series sales. I mean, you already hear about how people are saying how X S series speaker is very similar to Y v3 reference.

Although now I think the pricing is a bit off schew because it's no longer a logical jump for people to consider the S series unlike the prior marketing where if you were to consider Monitor 7s,9s or 11s - you could also be considering the smaller but more quality Studio 20s or 40s. Now it's like if you jump all the way to the 100s, you are still shy from the smallest bookshelf on the S series.

[xswl0931]

I'm sure that they were concerned with differentiating between their two reference series of speakers, but the S series is supposed to have all new drivers and should be sonically superior (for myself, the Studio v2's were a bit bright, but the pre-production S8's I heard were just right) and should be sold on that merit and not because the S series have a nicer exterior. I still think the engineers at Paradigm are great, but unfortunately, it seems the marketing dept has taken a stronger hold.

[bob53]

Took the plunge myself and purchased the S4's in Birds Eye Maple... I should have them in a week or two... :) In time I may get the C5 center. I'll be using an ACI Titan sub for the LFE.

My take on the v3's is that the newer drivers are uncoupled from the cabinet and so they did not need to have such a robust cabinet. The newer v3 cabinets are not as dead as the v2's but they are still much better than most speaker cabinets I see.

FWIW I think the v3's image a tad better than the v2's I don't feel they are any brighter than the v2's. The bass is less prodigious in the v3 and signatures but is tighter.

-Bob

[unrulyjulie]

I am upgrading everything except the 36" WEGA HD and the Sony DVD changer (for now). Was using a Technics receiver I picked up at a garage sale for $35, and my beloved Vandersteen 2Cs. It has been a difficult year personally, so hubby was willing to support an upgrade--plus when I dragged him down to the store he really liked the S8's. 2Cs will become the anchor of a bedroom system. . . the old receiver will probably go to Goodwill. HT was a goal, but first and foremost the system had to do music really, really well.

Just put money down on a Signature system yesterday (S8s with Signature ADP surrounds, C3 center, and standard Seismic sub (not a Signature). Birds-eye maple, as it turns out the owner of the particular shop wanted to display the cherry finish now that they are available, so I got a 10% discount on the demo maple ones (and they are already broken in!). The salesperson I had been working with the last two months while I shopped around worked this deal for me (she also called me when there was potential deal for a new, in-the-box Anthem AVM-20V2 and MCA-50 amp for 20% off due to a dealer ordering error). I hope I did okay . .

I knew that Anthem made good equipment, and I just don't have the time to go around trying to figure out the difference between different amps at different dealers using different speakers (my head hurts just thinking about it).

Haven't taken delivery yet, since dealer is still waiting for the center and ADP units to show up in cherry, but possibly next weekend! I will be out of town all week, so not too much pain from delayed gratification.

Listened to several other systems at different dealers . . .including the Vandersteen 3A Sigs, which sound a lot like my old 2Cs except bigger. I liked them very much, but the soundstaging/clarity of the S8s won.

Also listened to B&W, Sonus Faber, JM Lab, Vienna Acoustic, Infinity and a couple of others that didn't make an impression. I have an extreme sensitivity to bright speakers, which ruled several of these out (and how!).

So anyway, I'm new to the AVS forum, but have enjoyed reading so far. Looking forward to my new goodies . . .

Unruly Julie

(and yes, I am woman interested in audio . . .)

[Felgar]

Intersting... An S4 owner wants to save for a C5 and an S8 owner went with a C3. I'd think the C3 would balance nicely with the S4 and the C5 would be intended for the S8... I went with S4's and the C3, but I guess to each their own. Also my poor 42" screen would just look tiny if I had the C5. :)

It's cool that you saw the cherry speakers in person. I ordered them sight-unseen simply because it saved me over 1500 cdn and I was out for the best sound for the price regardless of looks. I hope they look ok though - what's your impression of them? I understand they'll be a step down from the real wood maple, but I'm hoping not too much. It also helps that my entire place has cherry trim where appropriate, so the color actually works better for me. I just hope they aren't too cheap-looking. :)

And I hope the arrival of these demo cherry speakers means that the factory is had at work making them and mine won't be too long! :)

[unrulyjulie]

I saw the S4s in cherry---- I think you will be very pleased. The quality of the finish seemed as good as the maple--just a different wood. It is NOT laminate! The brochure is very clear that all three wood finishes are veneer, not laminate (can't speak to the black).

My entertainment center is solid quarter-sawn oak in a medium stain, and the cherry will look out of place next to it, but since the maple is a much lighter color, I am hoping it will look less like a missmatch.

The dealer didn't get the C5's initially, so the C3 is what they used in their original demo setup. It's still a plenty big speaker, and sounded fine for HT. I only have a 36" WEGA and the sitting position is pretty close to the TV (trust me, we tried (on paper) every possible configuration for this room--it's a big enough room --16 x 25 feet, but windows/fireplace on three sides and open on the fourth limits our options).

--J

[bob53]

Felgar,

Plan on 2 weeks for delivery on the Cherry. The S4's were changed to Maple on Friday and were ready for immediate ship but the Cherry was 2 weeks out. It will be funny with a C5 center that goes 10 Hz lower than the S4's! Also I'll be getting aq projector soon and so the C5 will look great with it. :) BTW what will you be running for gear?

Julie, I'm envious of your S8's! I would love them but I sold off a pair of Studio 100's as I told my better half that I was going to downsize. It's nice to hear that others think the Signature line is nice and smooth.

-Bob

[Felgar]

Well two weeks isn't too bad I guess. I was hoping for perfect timing but I can live with that. How do you know what they are currently doing with the lines? My entire system will be a pair of S4's, a C3, a pair of S2's, and a Reference Servo 15. Do you forsee the same turnaround time with the rest of the components?

I'm very pleased that the Cherry is real wood! I just assumed that the reason they were cheaper was because they were laminate. You've made my night for sure. :) Knowing that they're real wood I'd definately even prefer Cherry - so it's all worked out.

What will I be running for gear? Hmm... You tell me! :) LOL... Actually I have no pre/pro or amps as of yet. (This is my first full-blown HT system) I guess the only real piece of audio equipment is a Denon 1600 which will be my CD and DVD-A player.

My plan was to get the speakers home, run them solid to break them in as quickly as possible, and then go out and round up a 4-5 receivers to test with them. My budget's only about 1000-1500 USD so I won't be going separates. I blew the vast majority of my money on the speakers because I feel that as I save more money I can add separate amplification and the speakers will grow nicely with the power supplying them. Eventually the receiver will just be a pre/pro and then I'll replace it as some point after I get to that stage.

I'm open to suggestions on what I should be trying out. Yamaha 2400, NAD t752, and Denon 3803 are on the list. I'll probably try a marantz and oknyo too - but I guess I'll just wait and see how things play out.

[bob53]

Felgar,

Nice system! Might I suggest the following. Get a nice amp and a dated but useful pre-pro to go with your system. For example you can get a nice Sherbourn 200x5 amp for 1000.00 and sometime even less on the used market. Another great amp to consider is the Anthem MCA-5 which can be had for 800 used. For the pre-pro might I suggest a Lexicon DC-1 or maybe a B&K Ref. 30 used. I know the Lexicon DC-1 can be found for a very affordable 400 or so. This would keep you within budget plus these items are far more resellable than a reciever and they would sound better. If I were in your situation, this is what I would do.

I know this because the dealer I am working with - Stereoland in MN (BTW a great bunch of guys) called Paradigm as I waited to determine why the S4's had not come. At that point they realized they switched the S4 order to Cherry and this was 2 weeks out due to the finish. I have no idea if this means all Cherry is 2 weeks out.

-Bob

[xswl0931]

Please post pics of the cherry S4's when you get them! Although the bird's eye maple looks great, cherry would actually fit better with my other furniture (the fact that it costs less is just icing on the cake). Has anyone done a direct comparison between the C3 and C5?

[Steve*MH]

Bob53,


Does your dealer know any more about the Anthem Statement stuff? Can we expect to see the P5 and D1 here soon?? Just wondering if anyone has heard anything real recently.
Thanks.

[bob53]

Steve*MH

No idea but I'll ask when I speak with them next.

-Bob

[Felgar]

Well my dealer says that his contact at Paradigm thinks they have the whole setup, and expects delivery in a week. So maybe I'll get them at the start of next week. If they're here in time to get set up for the Superbowl I'll be very happy. I'll definately post pics as soon as I get them.

Bob, regarding the used products I don't mind going that route but I would really only be comfortable with doing that locally as I'd have to at least hear it and make sure it works before pulling the trigger. I am keeping my eyes open but nothing yet. Thanks for the brand advice though, much appreciated.

[bob53]

Felgar,

I understand your hesitance to buy used, as I too have had cold feet with used stuff. However, consider that most owners of high-end gear treat this stuff like a family member and so often the gear is in excellent condition. I find a bit of patience goes a long way with sites like audiogon.com where if you wait long enough, there are some tremendous deals. I wait until I find a seller with a good rating who is the original or maybe second owner and the original packaging is nice too! I have yet to have a problem with audiogon. Another good route are websites like jeffssoundvalues.com or upscaleaudio.com as they are stores that also do internet sales and new and used gear. In so doing, you have insurance that if it is broken when it arrives you will get your money back. Put some thought into this as you will be amazed how much better separates sound and how much they retain value vs. a reciever. If you must go with a reciever, I'd suggest B&K as they build good sounding recievers. I see a few 307's for 1500.00 ish on audiogon and these are 7 channel x 150 wpc I think. If you only need 5 channel you might be able to find a 305 for even less. vhe one for 1500 on audiogon comes from a very reputable dealer - I know you can trust the ownership history of this unit.

-Bob

[rnrgagne]

Felgar, bob53 is right, the B&K 307 would be a great bet, this unit was regarded as the best receiver out there for sound quality.
If you want to save up for something better down the road the little Panasonic XR-45 might keep you smiling while you save. I heard of some people that are really happy with this unit driving reference quality speakers.

[Felgar]

I looked into the 307 and didn't like a few things. I may be wrong, so please correct me if I am... No PLII is my main issue. I expect most of my TV watching to be in PLII. Only 2 component inputs will also mean I have to go buy an external switch - and I'm sick of manual switches so a replacement cost is more than negligable.

To tell the truth I was really leaning toward the Yam 2400 because everyone says how good it works as a processor. And really, it's no more expensive than most processers, so what's there to lose? Plus PLIIx is nice as well as 3 component inputs.

What it boils down to is how much I'm giving up in SQ... I think the only way I can answer that is to get stuff at my place to compare. What does B&K's latest entry level receiver cost retail?

[billfish]

Steve*MH

my dealer has told me to expect the Statement 2-channel amp I ordered by January 15. can't say but would expect the 3-channel around the same time.

that being said, i'm the guy who posted that i expected my amp three weeks ago.

getting back to my original post regarding the new Paradigm Signature series speakers, i've now been without my S8's for two weeks. they were birds-eye maple and i really wanted piano black so i ended up breaking them in for my dealer. the dealer now had his new HT room ready so i took my S8's back to him after having them three weeks and over 115 hours. i have used three very good speakers since then and nothing comes close in my room to the S8's. i can't believe how much i miss them. a often used term in many of the posts in this thread is "imaging" and that is what i am really missing in not having the S8's. i am hearing i may have the blacks by the end of January and will post some pics. i can't wait to drive these with some real power.

[Woochifer]

I had my first listen to the Signature series over the weekend, and it was a mixed first impression. My listening was to the S2 hooked up to a set of multichannel Anthem separates. Generally, I thought it was a refined and impressive overall performer that had great imaging and expressed dynamic contrasts very well. And it had a very big and weighty sound for a bookshelf speaker. But, it also had some unexpected flaws with some of my test discs. The sample that I tried out had significant ringing with certain types of sounds (hollow bodied electric guitars, flutes, and pianos in particular), and the sound got compressed and muddy at times. It seemed like the speaker was hinting at something, but not quite getting there. A potentially great speaker with some kinks to work out.

The dealer pointed out that those demo units did not have a lot of playing time on them. Ordinarily I'm not a huge believer in the need for extended break-in, but it seemed plausible given that all of the Studio v.2 series speakers in my 5.1 setup did not sound the same as the broken-in demo units when they were fresh out of the box. The other explanation could simply be that those demo units were defective (also plausible given that Paradigm had problems with the tweeters on the early production Studio v.1 series models). In any case, I'll probably go back to for another listen in a month or two, since I also want to try out the S4 and that dealer does not have them in stock yet.

In actuality, the real surprise was how good the Studio 20 v.3 sounded. I have a Studio 40/CC/20 v.2 setup at home, and the 20 v.3 overall is a more composed and articulate speaker. But, what really astounded me was the incredible imaging on the 20 v.3s. The difference between the Studio 20 v.2 and the v.3 version is definitely more pronounced than between the Studio 40 v.2 and v.3. Compared to the S2 that tried out, the Studio 20 seemed to have fewer flaws and was very competent in all areas. The S2 definitely had a bigger sound that handled the weight of orchestral pieces better, but it also had those aforementioned flaws that I did not detect with the Studio 20. And I thought the imaging of the 20s was slightly better.

My original impressions of the Studio 40 v.3 were that they sounded better than the v.2 version, but not by a wide enough margin to justify an upgrade. The difference with the Studio 20 v.3 very well might be big enough for an upgrade.

[Felgar]

I can promise you that something's drastically amiss (though the amiss item may be your opinion - LOL) if you found the S20 near the same level as the S2. I demoed them both also - same room, same song, same equipment, same volume... The S2 was significantly better than the S20 in all respects. Symbals and drums much more accurate, imaging definately better. But the biggest difference seemed to be with a piano solo and the female vocals. Voices just seemed so "real" on the S2 - more melow and masked on the S20. The piano seems to just leap out of the S2's, whereas the S20 just seemed like a speaker making a piano sound.

Are you sure that the "flaws" were not just these speakers able to reproduce the source so much more accurately that they revealed flaws in the material that you never knew was there?

I dunno... I listened to both to make sure I was getting my money's worth for the signature line. 1 song on each was enough - I decided it was Signature all the way. Oh, FWIW the S4's and esspecially the S8's are a whole lot better than the S2's also.

[bob53]

I agree with Felgar, the S2 and S8 were more refined than the Studio counterparts, but that was my impression after 30 minutes.

Interestingly, after paging through the brochure for the Signature line (trying to feel better about dropping 3K on speakers :) ) I noticed something that I missed. If I am to believe the brochure, it seems that the S8 has a dedicated midrange driver that has Neodynium magnets and massive heatsink which doubles as a engineered chamber to eliminate reasonances (the key point). However the Mid/Bass Drivers on the S2 and S4's apparently are not as well engineered as they seem to lack this heatsink/resonance chamber and the Neodynium magnets. Is there a typo in the brochure or are the S8's the only Signature speaker that has this cool midrange driver? I guess If I am spending almost 300% of the cost of a Studio 40 on an S4 (I am) I would like to think all the technology in the S8 is found in my S4. If Paradigm omitted this midrange driver on the S4 or S2 to save money or something, that would aggravate me as this is a "cost no object" speaker, right? :) I called Paradigm and got a very nebulous answer, but they did admit that the drivers do differ... Why?

Does anyone want to unscrew their midrange driver on a S4 or S2 to see if it has a huge heatsink on the back? I am curious to see if the brochure is misleading. Chris - I think you posted pics of your S4's - wanna open them? :)

On a side note, does someone want me to send them this Signature brochure so that we can all have high-rez scans posted on this site? I do not have a computer at the moment with the capability to generate high-rez images vis-a-vis scans.

-Bob

[Felgar]

I'll glady scan it if you can get the brochure into my hands.

[bob53]

Felgar... Ok, but I have never personally mailed anything to Canada - is postage much higher? What is the best way to send it to you? I'll be happy to do so as long as it does not cost some ridiculous amount of money. Let me know how and where (PM). Can you call your local dealer and ask about the Midrange driver issue I outlined. I'm hoping they will call Paradigm. Since I am in the US, I can not talk with Paradigm, as I have to deal with the US division Audiostream and they were not very helpful.

Let me know,

-Bob

[xswl0931]

Did you try sending them email? I've sent them email before and they were quite responsive.

[BackCheck]

How does Paradigm's Signature Series compare to Monitor Audio's Gold Reference speakers? Has anyone done a comparison?

[unrulyjulie]

I originally wasn't planning on spending quite so much money on an S8-based system, so first auditioned a HT setup based on the S2s using a sub for the low frequency extension. Maybe the system wasn't set up right at the dealer, but it didn't blow me away. I had them hook up the S8s, and the difference was tremendous. But my recollection of the S2's was that there seemed to be something missing in the treble, not the midrange (which doesn't make tons of sense, see below). It was clear the S8s were a full range speaker. The S2s were good, but not a step up from my old creaky Vandersteens. The S8s are.

Looking at my Signature brochure:

All three systems use the same tweeter--er, high-frequency driver (so I can't explain why they sounded different at the dealer).

The descriptions of the midrange drivers for all three contain the same elements: "178-mm MLP mica-loaded polymer-cone; gold-anodized solid aluminum phase plug, 38-mm voice coil, AVS die-cast heat-sink chassis, IMS/SHOCK-MOUNT"

There is an additional comment for the S8 midrange: "ATC asymmetric dual tapered-channel die-cast aluminum chamber, super neodymium ring magnet, Ferro-fluid damped/cooled."

The bass drivers between the S4 and the S8 have identical descriptions.

Okay, so what's a phase plug, anyway? Not sure I want to know.

So it looks like all the midrange drivers have a housing with heat sinks, it's the asymmetrical tapered channel midrange chamber (the shape of the chamber itself) and magnets and such that distinquish the dedicated S8 midrange driver.

Parsing the brochure, here is my guess as to part of what's going on. I doubt it has much to do with cost savings, but trying to do more with less in a smaller speaker.

The midrange drivers in the S2 and S4, are described as midrange/bass drivers, whereas the midrange driver on the S8 is described only as a midrange driver, since it has the luxury of four additional bass drivers.

The asymmetric taperd chamber is "designed to break up and disperse standing waves before they can stray, or bounce back into the driver cone and cause sonic mischief."

Since the S8 midrange driver ONLY has to handle the midrange frequencies, without being asked to produce at lower RFs, there are probably tricks that can be employed to optimize its sound over this smaller bandwidth, hence the engineers can focus their design attention there. The smaller speakers, however, don't have the luxury of a midrange driver with a single mission; both must take the bass driver role as well (obviously, the S2 moreso than the S4). I will also surmise that if you were to put the S8 midrange driver in the S2, there would be very little or poor bass response, and it would be a completely unacceptable product. The S8 midrange driver just isn't designed to produce bass. If the S8 driver were put in the S4s, the same result may occur.

It's part of the compromise set that speaker designers have to deal with to try to get better sound out of a smaller speaker with fewer drivers--each driver as to do more, over a wider frequency range, so each driver can't be optimized for a specific smaller range.

Not knowing for sure, can't say for sure. But it's my best engineering guess. As an engineer, I have to say that I've been impressed with Paradigm's engineering and analytical approach to speaker design (at least what their marketing department says is their approach). Too many audiophiles claim that design of components is an art. It's the art of engineering, though, and performing that art takes an attention to detail, modelling, and just plain knowing physics. The result is a well-engineered product that sounds good, too and can be manufactured at a decent price point. Arguments for many audiophile components seem to be a matter of faith, not physics. Ah, but this a different rant, and we'll keep the thread on Paradigm to keep the moderators happy.

Julie ;-)

[raoul]

Julie,

34" WEGA? Your screen is waaaaaaay too small for your speakers!

R-S

[bob53]

Steve: Dealer is sick... I'll let you know if I hear anything different re: Anthem line

Felgar: Another idea... Since you are in Canada, can you shoot a short message off to Paradigm re: the midrange driver? I would but they sort the email based upon if it is a US or Canadian email... Maybe a Canadian will have an easier time getting a better answer as you will be one step closer to the people who designed them.

Julie: As a scientist (had lots of engineering classes too :) ) I too am fond of companies like Paradigm as they have the $$$ to really do R&D and produce their own drivers, etc... The engineering efforts of their company are impressive. I felt the same way about the resonance chamber of the midrange driver - i.e. it would probably not be good at generating lower frequencies but this is a guess on our parts.... I suspect the S2's you heard were either not broken in or pre-production?

-Bob

[Steve*MH]

Bob,

Thanks. I would greatly appreciate it if you heard anything about the Anthem Statement line to share it with me. I was hoping to hear something, ie press release or otherwise, over CES, but nothing yet. I know they are very close to releasing them, but I would just love to see some official specs and literature on them. The amps look the most promising.
Thanks.

[Woochifer]

Originally posted by Felgar
I can promise you that something's drastically amiss (though the amiss item may be your opinion - LOL) if you found the S20 near the same level as the S2. I demoed them both also - same room, same song, same equipment, same volume... The S2 was significantly better than the S20 in all respects. Symbals and drums much more accurate, imaging definately better. But the biggest difference seemed to be with a piano solo and the female vocals. Voices just seemed so "real" on the S2 - more melow and masked on the S20. The piano seems to just leap out of the S2's, whereas the S20 just seemed like a speaker making a piano sound.

Are you sure that the "flaws" were not just these speakers able to reproduce the source so much more accurately that they revealed flaws in the material that you never knew was there?

I dunno... I listened to both to make sure I was getting my money's worth for the signature line. 1 song on each was enough - I decided it was Signature all the way. Oh, FWIW the S4's and esspecially the S8's are a whole lot better than the S2's also.

Well, if your evaluation was based on one song, I hope it was a good one. I've been using the same set of test discs for three years, one of which I've used for over 10 years and played on a wide variety of systems, from entry level bookshelf models all the way up to the Dynaudio Evidence Master. The material ranges from trip hop to multitracked rock to acoustic jazz to live funk to orchestral pieces; and the quality of the recordings vary significantly from mediocre multitracked muddiness to direct-to-two-track to 96/24 resolution. But, the common thread is that I'm very familiar with all of the discs, and have heard them through several different rigs. I think I know my demo material pretty well. It takes me close to an hour to get through all of the tracks that I use in speaker auditions, so just comparing the S2 with the Studio 20 took me about two hours total.

The flaws that I heard were what I heard, and if anything my own personal bias is more forgiving towards Paradigm than anything since I own a set of their speakers. My initial impression of the S2 was very positive, but as I settled in and went through all my discs, those audible flaws kept popping up to the point that I couldn't deny that I was hearing them. In many respects, the S2s were audibly better than the Studio 20, but the S2s also had more audible faults. To say that the S2 was significantly better than the Studio 20 in all respects? No way. That's not necessarily a knock on the S2, so much as praise for what I heard from the Studio 20 (for one thing, the imaging on the Studio 20 v.3s is about as open and transparent as anything I've ever heard for under $1,000).

Like I said, I'll check back in a month or two and revisit what I heard from the S2 when I try out the S4s. It might be as simple as those S2s being too new for critical listening, and I know that my own Studio speakers took a few hours of normal playing before the sound opened up. I'm willing to give the S2 the benefit of the doubt for now, but what I heard was surprisingly mixed and not worth more than double the price of admission.

[Felgar]

Yup fair enough - what you hear is what you hear. Who knows, maybe I just can't hear what you're describing - I am pretty new to audio in general.

The song is Don't Fence Me In by Holly Cole - I think it's pretty decent. It has great range of frequency and has a lot going on. To me the S2 just sounded so much more alive.

But your explanation of your demo methods certainly makes it clear that you have decent methods and are familiar with your material. If nothing else this is a great example of why everyone needs to hear speakers for themselves.

[unrulyjulie]

Statement amps?
How much power is enough power?

Sheesh, the lights in our living room already flicker when the 225 Wpc Anthem MCA-50 triggers on (the power-on when signal detected feature is <very> cool). The spec sheets indicate that the Signature series speakers appear pretty efficient (compared to, say Vandersteens, which are power pigs). And the subs, of course, have their own amp . . .

And it's a 36" WEGA, Raoul, so don't go dissing my TV ;-). Doesn't matter how big it is when I'm listening to music tho, which is the S8's primary job. The rest of the HT setup is just a bonus, well, because I can.

Hope I'm getting my speakers this weekend. My salesperson wasn't in today (I was travelling all week), so I haven't made contact with her yet . . .

Julie

[bob53]

I picked up my S4's in Birdseye Maple yesterday and hooked them up last night... All I can say is wow! These speakers are quite a step up from the Studio line in all but one area - bass. I think of my room as quite a typical "compromise" room - i.e. a room that serves duty as a music, HT and living room... In fact, many audiophiles would run in terror if they saw my room as the room is 14 x 20 with the speakers along the long wall and the couch along the opposit long wall. One 14 foot side is comprised of a bay window with 6 feet tall glass... My coffee tables and end tables are glass topped. Bottom line - my room is an acoustic nightmare but more realistic for those who do or can not have a room dedicated for music. A room like this also is a more real world test of speaker performance like imaging and brightness.

My impressions:

Out of the box the tweeter is clearly more refined than the Studio line by a wide margin - it has all the speed of a metal dome but with the softness of a silk dome. Sibilants are greatly reduced vs. the Studio line (v2 and v3).

Mids seem a bit more polished and gone is the upper midrange glare that can pop up with the Studio line.

Bass is solid but lacks the weight of the Studio line - if you have no interest in electronic music or other high bass genres, this speaker would be fine alone but I think it needs a bit more :)

I think what the Sig line has that the Studio line lacks is microdynamics - both do macrodynamics well as both were good PRAT sperakers (S4 images better than the Studio 40 v3's) but the microdynamics are so much better on the S4's - separation of events, transient speed and attack. Transparency is much better on the Signature line. It's like stepping up from a sharp knife to a scalpel - the knife cuts well but only after your try a scapel do you know what it is like to cut with something really sharp! :) Many of the "shortcomings" of the Studio line only become apparent after you listen to something better.

Overall this is an amazing speaker and it leaves the B&W Nautilis line in the dust IMO. This speaker is comparable with the B&W Signature line but I still give the nod to the Paradigms as they sound more natural (to my ears) on vocals.

Paradigm has a truly world class speaker that is going to be hard to beat - it really has fixed the shortcomings of the Studio line and improved upon the pre-existing strengths. It should serve well as both a terrific music speaker and a great HT speaker too (maybe a bit overkill for HT :) )

I take back the complaints I had re: the midrange driver - whatever they did I am impressed and I expect them to sound better when broken in.

I may have to pick up the matching center :)

-Bob

[JamesColburn]

I spent two hours listening to the Paradigm S8 and was very impressed with the speaker. But to compare it to the B&W Signature 800 ($20,000 per pair) is stretching it quite a bit. I think the S8 gives the Nautilus 803 some really stiff competition but, with the right amplification, the B&W 802 and 801 are in a different class in terms of detail and clarity (but given the price it is expected). However, in the particular price range of the B&W 801, 800 and Sig800, the Vandersteen 5A and the Dynaudio Confidence line are hard to beat.

[bob53]

James,

I think the B&W lines are carried by shops that have "higher-end" gear and so the only fair comparison is to use the same amplification, preamplification, etc. as to say te B&W's need the "right" amplification to sound there best also holds true for Paradigm too. I find the B&W Nautilis line to sound very similar to the Studio Reference line if played through the same gear - sometihing that is not often done! :)

-Bob

[JamesColburn]

Actually, I heard the S8 with Parasound gear in a highly treated listening room. It was an extremely nice speaker for $5,500. Bob, if you can't hear the difference between the Paradigm Signature line/ Studio line compared to the B&W 802, 801, 800, and Sig800 then you are going to be a very happy man. I am very jealous of you. I could have saved a lot of money in pursuit of perfection and kept my Vandersteen 2's and not upgraded to my Vandersteen 5A's.

[Felgar]

We've already been over the differences between the Signature and Studio lines, which IMO are quite substantial. I don't think it's fair to lump the two together.

[JamesColburn]

I also don't think it's fair to the Paradigm Studio line to compare them with the Nautilus line. A more realistic comparison would be the 700 series or the CDM. I think the Paradigm signature line compares quite well with the B&W 805, 804, and 803. After that, you get into some very expensive and sophisticated speaker lines.

[unrulyjulie]

Speaker A is clearly better than Speaker B is not productive . . . We all seem to hear something different that really appeals to each of us.

I have never cared for B&W, even the high-buck stuff, and for my money the Paradigm S8 won over the Vandy 3A Sigs in a head-to-head competition with the same equipment (and I have Vandersteen 2Ci's, of which I am very fond). So the S8s are on the way, even though I was primed to prefer the Vandersteen.

[hockey puck]

It makes no sense to compare speakers which are thousands of dollars apart. In the vast majority of time the much more expensive speaker wins,as it should. There are too many $$$ separating the Studio line and signature. Wood vs. no wood. Etc.

The real question is " Are the differences worth the extra $$$?". Of course, the answer will vary based upon what each person hears and their budget.

Enough B&W bashing. Someone must like them as they sell the most speakers......Their ads are not that good...

[Stash]

Is anyone using 4 S2's with the C3 center? Looking at this combo for 50/50 HT/Music. Any pictures of the new finishes would be nice.

[Felgar]

They are here!!!

I just got them set up late last night. Personally Stash, for the extra 800 or so I'd go with S4's in front. They have much more punch and blend better with a SW IMO, and in this case I did put my money where my mouth is - S4 fronts and S2 rears. :)

I'll post pics tonight of the Cherry finish. Initial impressions though is that they are definately a step down from the maple. I'm not sure if they are laminate or not. They're either the best laminate I've ever seen, or else real wood that look a lot like laminate. They definately don't have that deep gloss that makes the wood unmistakeable like the maple.

They don't look bad though, and after seeing them I'm glad I saved the extra $$$ by going with the cheaper finish. Nevertheless, the maple do look like they're higher quality.

[cjsparky]

what B&W bashing are you referring to??? If you think anything in this thread was bashing, I could show you a few links to threads that are downright trouncing the speakers i own, and the company who manufactures them.

[Grandarf]

Lets see it! :p :D

[Steve*MH]

Billfish, Bob53, or anyone else,


Anything new with the Anthem Statement line?? I am really anxious to see some finalized pics and lit/specs on the new P5/P2 amplifiers, but the info seems to be slow to get out anywhere. I think they have been in production for some time, and I know that Jan. 15 was mentioned in the forums at one point, just wondering if any dealers out there have given any insight into the release or detailed info. What I have heard from before is that it will have two power cords (15A), produced over 1,000 watts per channel into 1 ohm, weigh in around 125 lbs net, 5 transformers (one per channel), and a S/N ratio that is out of this world. Anyone else hear anything? Also, heard that black is the only color at launch. I truly hope that a silver/titanium option is released eventually after the initial launch. Just wondering and getting anxious to hear anything--seems to take so long in the HT business to actually get something released as delays occur constantly.
Thanks in advance.

[billfish]

Steve*MH
i talked to my dealer tonight, just two hours ago. he suggested two and five channel amps would be shipped to him Monday. i now hope to have my two channel late next week. i won't be able to report anything until the end of the month however as piano black S8's are not supposed to ship until then.

[Stash]

What is the price structure on the new sig series. I know the Birdseye maple costs more than the cherry but where do the other finishes fit in? Do the piano black speakers cost the same as the cherry models?

Thanks!

[Felgar]

Here are some pics as promised... A word of caution - these pictures seem to make them appear a darker color than they are. The s2 closeup, the S4, and the color.jpg should provide the best representation of their true color.

Also note that they are not Cherry as I imagined. The typical dark red "Cherry" is not what these are. In the color.jpg I put part of a fairly dark Cherry frame beside the center so you can get a frame of reference for the color. Again, even though you can clearly see the wood gran, I still can't decide if these are real wood or else just great laminate. :)

[Felgar]

Oh, ignore the messy setup - it's temporary and will be a lot of work to get it all set back up. :)

[Felgar]

The C3...

[Felgar]

And the s4 closeup... the color here looks a little closer to real life.

[Felgar]

Here's a closeup of the back of the S2 that shows the wood grain and the color about as close to real as I could get.

[Felgar]

And finally, the comparison to my dark Cherry colored frame. Be sure to look at this before judging the color! It's almost a rust color, moreso than red for sure.

[Doubichou]

Felgar:

Thanks for the pics. One question: Why didn't you get the Premier speaker stand for the C3 to match your stands (J26 I believe) for the S4?

[Felgar]

I did. It's on back order - this is just a loaner until it comes in.

I ordered the matching J29's for the rears too but I think I'll cancel them because they'd be a little low on those stands.

[unrulyjulie]

The Signature brochure states that all finishes are wood veneers.

Cherry can be stained to any color, whether it be darker like your frames, but the 'normal' reference to a cherry stain in many furniture lines is closer to what you see on the speakers. I suppose that, if you are feeling adventurous, you could sand them down, restain them and try again (depending on how thick the veneer really is).

The bird's-eye maple and Rosewood are exotic woods prized for their beautiful grain structure; hence the higher price tag.

Now that you have gotten in touch with your inner interior designer on the color, do they SOUND out of the box, stereo-boy? :D

Further--how good are the manuals that come with them regarding speaker placement, etc.?

Julie

[Felgar]

Originally posted by unrulyjulie
I suppose that, if you are feeling adventurous, you could sand them down, restain them and try again (depending on how thick the veneer really is).

<fake english accent> Not bloody likely!

Originally posted by unrulyjulie
Now that you have gotten in touch with your inner interior designer on the color, do they SOUND out of the box, stereo-boy? :D
[/B]

LOL... Point taken Julie - all this talk of their look and I'm the one who's said from the start that I dont even care how they look. :) In fairness though, I was also motivated to make sure that everyone else knows what they look like.

And ya, so the finish is the actual type of wood rather than the color - ok I got it... Enough of this decor talk...

Even though I've listenned to them with most of my free time over the past 2 nights I can't really say how they sound. ROFL. First, a friend just briefly purused the speaker manual to look for any critical information, but I'll take a look at them tonight. They do have diagrams in them, etc. but I think the info adheres to conventional knowledge fairly well. Note that the speaker manual is very different from the product brochure - it has info about bi-amping, connecting polarity, etc. as opposed to marketting info. This makes sense I guess. Each speaker came with a manual, and afiak they are all the same. So now I have 5 of them. :)

Out of the box they did sound good, but so much depends on the receiver and esspecially the room it's hard to comment. Also the receiver I'm using is just a marantz 7200 (my brother's), although I suppose it's rated a decent power 110 watts, so I suppose it will sound as good as others I'll be demoing.

I guess overall they sound pretty close to what I heard in the stores. As of yet though I haven't really tried to drive them hard because I'm being extra careful not to have the receiver clip. Having said all that, they do sound very clear. At pretty moderate listenning levels - what I would classify definately less than "loud", the sound carries throughout the house with ease. (this is a bad thing :() And also it seems pretty quiet until you try to talk to someone and find you actually have to talk very loud to hear each other. In other words, the sound is so clear that it can actually be quite loud without any strain on the speaker or my ears.

I'll post better comments on the weekend when I have more receivers, a sound meter, a dedicated amp, better interconnects, and they are better broken in. Oh, how loud do they need to be played in order to actually be accomplishing break-in?

[Steve*MH]

Billfish,

You mentioned earlier in this thread that your dealer suggested the Statement amps would be shipping today. Any news on this? Did they ship today from Anthem?? Any other news on the Statement amps?
Thanks.

[billfish]

Steve*MH
no confirmation today, 1/19/04 that the amps shipped but my dealer claims that he talked to someone in the know at Paradigm that a 2, 3, and 5 channel Statement would ship this week to him. however, i'm the goof that believed i would have a 2-ch Statement a month ago! it appears i'm not a very reliable source.

as i posted a few days ago, all i'll be able to do with the amp if I get it this week is look at it. my birds eye maple S8's are gone and i'm waiting for the piano blacks that are promised at the end of this month - here i go again - promises, promises.

i'll post the moment the Statement arrives and the moment the black S8's arrive. i've heard Paradigm is taking the same care to finish the blacks as the maples so they should be spectacular.

[Steve*MH]

Billfish,

Thanks for the reply. I hope it comes in this week. I imagine you are getting the black version of the Statement amps?? I heard they are only making black to begin with--hoping for a silver version later. Did your dealer mention the possibility for silver later? Perhaps you wanted black anyway.
Did your dealer give you any kind of spec sheet or teaser sheet? Do you know any particulars?

[tonov12]

Sorry, this thread is too long to read through completely. Are you also using the Sesmic sub with this set up? I'm curious as to just how good that sub is also. I have the PW2200 but I was considering taking the step up.

[hifisponge]

Originally posted by billfish
Steve*MH

as i posted a few days ago, all i'll be able to do with the amp if I get it this week is look at it. my birds eye maple S8's are gone and i'm waiting for the piano blacks that are promised at the end of this month - here i go again - promises, promises.



Billfish -

I spoke with the local dealer here in WA state earlier today, and he told me black won't be available until JUNE! Please let me know if your speaks actually arrive this month so I can follow-up with my guy.

Cheers.

[Bghead8che]

Aren't the Sigs using the exact same drivers are the V3s? If so, what accounts for the improved sound?

-Brian

[Felgar]

Nope... I'm pretty sure they're all completely re-designed for the Sig series. Julie should be able to confirm with her product brochure.

[Bghead8che]

I currently own a 5.1 V3 set. I find the midrange, as others have noted, to be a little "thick" and lacking in clarity. Compared to my MA GR-60s the Studios have a long way to go in clarity.

I'm interested to see (hear) how the Sigs compare.

-Brian

[bbusse125]

I went to listen to the Signatures at my local dealer this weekend. I listened to the S4's driven by a Rotel RB-1090. I currently own Studio 40's v.2 driven by an Yamaha receiver. The S4's seemed to be much, much smoother and the bass had more authority than my 40's. I realize that the Rotel amp is much better than my Yamaha. The imaging and soundstage on the S4's is unbelievable. Looks like I will be upgrading to S4's and probably an Anthem MCA50 amp. I am still undecided on the processor. The Rotel 1066 has some double bass isssues that I would like to stay away from. The Anthem AVM20 is out of my price range. Any suggestions on a processor for less than $2000?

Thanks BB

[xswl0931]

Seems like if you can afford the S4's and MCA50, you can probably save up for the AVM20 which you'll probably be happier with in the long run. If you buy all three from the same dealer, you can see if they are willing to give you a bigger discount for the "package".

[Stash]

Billfish and HifiSponge, do you happen to know how where the piano black finish fits into the pricing pyramid. Others have mentioned that the Cherry finish is less expensive than the Birdseye Maple or Rosewood. I know I need to go to the dealer to have a look and listen but I don't plan on making a purchase until spring sometime. Any info you provide is greatly appreciated.

[bob53]

wswl0931:

Not to be rude but why do you suppose if someone can buy 2 expensive things, they MUST be able to afford another? Maybe there is a budget (real or mentally imposed) to spend no more than a certain amount of money? As a perpetual student, I am by no means wealthy (yet) but because I am good at saving money, investing a bit, etc. I have been able on a meager salary to afford a near state-of the-art HT setup - but I was only able to do so by building the system slowly over time. Sorry to go off about this, but don't assume anything about the financial situation of anyone else but you as it can come off as presumptuous - which is likely not what you intended.

Stash:

The piano black is the saame price as the Cherry - which is 2500.00 ish for the S4's I think. I like the ligther wood and so I got stuck paying more :(.

bbusse:

Having both the S40's and the S4's, the S40's now will be my surrounds, I agree with your review. However, did you use the same gear in the same room? I reserve final judgement when the speakers are played side by side with the same gear. In my setup, the S4's are much smoother but they are not dull sounding and so bad recordings are not glossed over, but for a metal dome tweeter they are amazing. The imaging of the S4's is amazing as the S40's were already pretty good.

-Bob

[billfish]

Steve*MH
i didn't talk to my dealer about silver Statements as I want black. the unit i am expecting is black and i believe those are the cabinets they started with. my dealer did have some literature about the Statements as he had weight, dimensions, and power but i did not get a copy of anything. called again today, 1/21/04, and no confirmation of anything shipping. pretty soon i'll learn to keep my mouth shut!

hifisponge,
i hope my dealer is right and your dealer is wrong about the black S8's. i'm frankly more confident about getting my black S8's than my Statement amp as my dealer was right on when he promised my BEM S8's.

Bdhead8che,
i too had V3's that i loved. i personally thought the mid range was quite good and at least equal to the NHT 2.9's that i had that supposedly had outstanding mid range. i didn't find them "thick" as i too have read in many threads. however, the S8's are a different beast - no comparison IMO. this is a completely redesigned speaker and simply not in the same class. you should make a great effort to audition the S8's and try to listen to some with at least 50 hours on them. also, try to listen to some with a good set up. lots of power, at least 12" from a back wall, not real close to side walls, and towed in around 15 degrees focused a foot or two behind your listening position. my S8's were in a 2-ch set up for music only and i moved them eight times before zeroing in. you are going to like what you hear. talk about mid range, take some good female vocal to audition.

[Felgar]

Billfish,

I set my speakers according to the "3/4 x" diagram in the speaker manual with focus about 1 foot behind the listenning position. I'm willing to play around, but where would you suggest starting? What did you end up with?

[Steve*MH]

Billfish,

Thanks for the reply. Dont worry, I know how this stuff goes. For whatever reason, it seems to take FOREVER for these audio companies to actually release a product. It seems it is talked about forever, before they finally start shipping. If it is not too much to ask, is it possible to get ahold of that literature your dealer has or get some of the specs and share them here? I would really like to know what he has for dimensions, weight, power, etc. or anything else. And if he actually has real tangible literature, it would be great if it could be scanned in here for others to see. Just a request as I am anxious to hear some real info on the Statement 5-channel amp. Thanks for the effort. Or if not, if you have the number of your dealer, I could try and call and get some info and tell me who to ask for. I have no info around here from dealers--they are slow around here getting any info and it seems to take forever for Anthem to get anything new on their website.
Greatly appreciated.

[xswl0931]

Bob, sorry if I came off as rude, but all I was trying to say is that with such nice speakers and capable amp, the limiting factor will be the processor (nothing against Rotel, I have a Rotel amp myself). With a $2000 budget as stated by the other person, it doesn't seem difficult to save up another $700 or so to get the AVM20 which has proven itself to be worth the money sonically. He may even get it for less as a package as many times I was able to. I wasn't trying to make a comment on anyone's financial situation. When I was in college, I had a negative bank account and some cheap Acoustic Research speakers, and this was with working part time.

[hifisponge]

Stash -

I was told by both my dealer and Paradigm (via e-mail) that the black lacquer is the same price as the bird's eye maple. It is the multiple coats of lacquer and the extra labor involved in that process that drives the price up, not the rarity or type of wood, as one would think. For the S8's, that means the black is $6000/pr U.S.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Billfish -

I hope your dealer is right too. I certainly don't want to wait until June. Talk about a test of patience! About your M&K set-up. I used to own the S-125s and the SS-150 surrounds. I'm curious, how do you compare the sound of your MKs to the Sigs? If you have the time, please be descriptive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I'm going to put my neck out and say to all of you in this thread talking about which amp sounds best, to seriously reconsider your priorities. If you have good speakers, like the Sigs, put your money into room acoustic treatment first. Your speakers, and the room they are in, dominate the sound you hear to the point that you are unlikely to hear the miniscule differences bewteen two competently built amps. I don't mean to preach, I just hope to take a little power away from the salespeople that insist you need seperates or that elite megawatt amp to get good sound. It is simply overkill for most applications, or you are paying for the name and the build quality, or oyu are paying for improvements that mean more on paper than in the real world.

For instance, it is highly unlikely that you can hear the difference between the .005% THD of a Yamaha receiver compared to the .0005% in a Rotel when you have up to 5.0%THD in the speakers playing that signal and swings of +/-6dB (and more) in the in-room frequency response. Of course it is more complicated than this, but in broad strokes that covers it.

Of course if you've got the money, and want the very best, go for it.

[billfish]

Steve*MH
i sent you a PM

hifisponge,
i can't compare my M&K set up with the S8's. my M&K S-250's are in a dedicated 7.1 ht set up. i do listen to some multi-channel (DVDA and SACD)in that set up but it is night and day difference to my 2-channel set up for stereo CD's. i like well done multi-channel and the M&K S-250's with MX-5000 subs do a great job of reproducing but it doesn't sound as natural and as clear as 2-channel with the S8's. i've posted before in this thread that i auditioned several 2-channel set ups in my home in the same room, speakers in the 4K to 9K range and they did not sound as good as the S8's. again, listen to the S8's with Dawn Upshaw/White Moon, or Sara K/Hobo, or Holly Cole anything - you'll think they came to visit.

i love my M&K's and every about my ht system, but it wouldn't compare to a room full of S8's or S8's and S4's in combination. i suppose this gets me around to sub/sat again vs full range and i don't want to offend anyone. i like both approaches for different applications. just my opinion.

[hifisponge]

Thanks billfish. I saw your S8's sitting next to the MK set-up, so I thought I'd ask. I really liked my MK's too, but decided to upgrade about a year ago. Over the past year, it has been way more work to find speakers I'm happy with than I would have ever imagined. I've owned and returned (or sold) Vienna Acoustics, Aerial Acoustics, Martin Logan and KEF Reference. I also listened (in the showroom) to virtually every speaker in my area. The Sigs were my last chance and had they come out a couple of months earlier, I could have saved the money I lost from selling the last set I owned. Oh, well. I'd rather take the loss and have speakers I'm truly happy with.

Cheers.

[musicphile]

Hello hifisponge,
Which Aerial aAoustics speaker did you own and then return/sell? Did you comare the S8 with model 7B or the 9?
Hello Billfish: Could you give some e.g. of near $9k/pair speakers you compared w/ S8 in yours set up?
Thanks.

[billfish]

musicphile,
i auditioned S8's with NHT's that i own, ProAc Responses that i own and Monitor Audio and Sonus Faber, speakers from $2500/pr to $9000/pr.

[David Barteaux]

Felgar,

How does the Servo-15 blend musicaly with you signatures? Do you feel your missing anything there?

[musicphile]

Thanks Billfish.
David B: I am using the S8+cc5+sig ADPs+SA-35and servo15, blends in very well. This has prevented me to stop upgrade from servo-15 to the sig. servo. Have the S8 set at 40Hz, cc-5 at 50Hz and the four surrounds at 60Hz. The MC-12 sends 40-50Hz from center to S8s, 40-60 Hz from sourrounds to S8s and all below 40 Hz to Servo 15 (high band pass slope for all).

[hifisponge]

Musicphile -

Yes the Aerials were the 7B's. I felt that even though they are speced to have flat respnse, they sounded uninvolving and dark. My wife also wasn't too taken with their plain-box appearance. They are impeccably built speakers however. But then the S8's are even more so-IMO.

[musicphile]

Thanks Hifisponge.
I also feel that the Aerials 7B are not upto the mark as the S8s are. Especially in terms of neutrality, clarity and flat response for pure 2 ch music. Also, I feel that in HT, they lack some of the bass and slam generated by S8s. I did the true A & B with S8 and 7B at home, but, haven't yet done the S8 vs model 9. When I did the A and B at the store with 7B and 9, the 9 just smoked the 7B. I am 'afraid' to do the Aerial 9 vs S8, as I fear I might be 'forced' to spend several $k more (9 are $8,700/pair or $9,500/pair depending on the wood finish, $3,500 for CC5 in black and $3,200 for SR3, total of $15.4k or $16.2 k vs $11.3k for Signatures all in bird's eye maple)!!
In the store we were using Mark Levinson No 432 amp, Audio Research LS25 preamp, Wadia 861 CD player, Transparent super analog interconnects and speaker cable and Shunyata Research Hydra 8 power conditioner. At home I was/am using Musical fidelity A308 CD player, Bryston 4B-SST amp, MC-12 preamp-processor (in 2 ch analog bypass mode), transparent super interconnects (I have my Hydra 8 on order and should received in a week or so).

[billfish]

Felgar,
sorry, i missed your question and just caught it when reviewing some earlier posts, another senior moment. i'm the guy with all the tape i had to peel off the carpet as i was moving the S8's. i ended closely to the "3/4x" configuration but 14" from the back wall. my layout is shifted a little as my room is so long - around 35'. i am five feet from the right wall with a 15 degree tow in and aimed to intersect 15', i sit about 14'. in my room i found the distance from the back wall critical to performance. i started at 8" and ended at 14" - not exactly where i wanted to be but they sounded so good there (and i didn't notice a big difference going more - tried up to 20") i left them and told my wife that i didn't think her living room furniture placement looked so hot either! she thinks this high tech stuff is furniture so anyplace would do just fine. i could be be making my S8 set up in the garage soon and then i'm going to have to treat the space, i think i'll shut up. again, sorry i missed your question.

[Felgar]

David B,

Well, not having heard the Sig Servo, the Servo-15 was the best I heard of any sub in terms of being able to produce music. I'm not overly impressed with the Servo-15 so far though - listenning to same music just through the S4's makes it clear how much less accurate the Servo is (of course, this would only be valid for about 50-70 Hz). I have the crossover set at 80 Hz right now.

Having said that though, I'm confident that I can get it much better. My room has no accoustic treatment, and I haven't played with the position of the sub yet either. I'll be trying to plot a pretty detailed graph of my frequency response so at least I can start configuring it. It does blend decent with the Sigs though, what seems to me to be a result of the sig's being able to take over with authority just after the crossover.


Thanks for your thoughts Billfish. My most recent configuration has the very back corner of the speaker 13" from the wall, toed in to focus about a foot behind the listenning location, and about 8.5' feet apart, where my listenning location is 10' feet from the wall. I'm pushing the full 'X', but I'm trying to keep them as far apart as possible for the benefit of everyone else not in the sweet spot. So far I'm completely blown away by the imaging - it's almost unnatural in that the stage is soooo wide, and I've never heard anything like it. Nevertheless there's no distinction between each speaker for vocals and things in the middle, so I'm assuming that they aren't too far apart.

[Allend619]

billfish
Did your new amp arrive yet.
Allen

[billfish]

Allend619,
you had to ask didn't you? no! i sent you a PM. i was out of town all week so didn't do any checking. it is 10:30 am 1/31/04 and i'll be calling my dealer now about the Statement piece and my piano black S8's. hope you aren't laughing Steve*MH.

[hifisponge]

Just checked the Paradigm site and they have finally updatd it to include info on the Signature line. Check it out!

[Bghead8che]

Any update on the black finish? How long of delay can one expect? Lastly, has anyone done a direct comparison with MA Gold speakers?

-Brian

[Allend619]

Thanks for the PM billfish with the information.
Allen

[unrulyjulie]

My S8's with C3 center, ADP signature and Seismic 12 sub were delivered a week ago last Tuesday.

The first week was worrisome. I kept getting listening fatigue (remember, these were floor demos and theoretically were already broken in). I am extremely sensitive to bright speakers. I borrowed a Classe CD/DVD player from my dealer to determine if that was the problem (since we are using an inexpensive DVD carousel as a player and using the DACs within the Anthem AVM-20). Neither of us could hear a darned thing different between the two systems. :confused:

Canny salesman asked how old my speaker cable was. I was using some Monster cable zip cord that I bought 15 years ago. He suggested trimming a few inches off of each end and restripping it. While doing this, I found that the crimp in one of the banana plugs was loose---the wire pulled out of it while I was disconnecting them!

Okay, replugged everything in---and----magnificent! Since my listening fatique is a physical sensitivity, there is no way I was imagining this! I can listen at pretty loud levels indefinitely now! :D

I have a feeling that the antique Monster Cable will have to go, however. Currently demoing a pair of Transparent Wave 100's -- seems smoother, but sheesh, I don't know. It's cables.

The dealer replaced the bird's-eye maple with a set of S8's in cherry. When I went in to pick up my demo cables, I listened to the new S8's hooked through a $15,000 pair of Krell monoblocks, an $8000 Krell Home Theater Processor, and a $5000 Esoteric DV-50 CD/SACD/DVAudio/DVD player.

First thing I listened to was a Diana Krall SACD--incredibly smooth, and definitely sounded better than home. However, when I played my own redbook CDs on the DV-50, my little fatique problem returned (which makes me think that it's also something of a break-in issue).

So right now, I am a pretty happy camper--terrific sounding system with my cheap Sony DVD carousel, Anthem AVM-20/MCA-50, and the Signature speakers.

Haven't even done much home theater yet, since I've been enjoying listening to the music so much--and it all cost less than those Krell monoblocks! Well, not MUCH less, but . . .

It's hard to imagine how it can get much better than this, but I suppose there's always a way. Even hubby loves these speakers and isn't upset about the expense!

Wishing all of you good listening--

Julie

[hifisponge]

Billfish -

Whats the latest on the delivery date for the black S8's? You thought it was going to happen about this time of the month.

Cheers.

[hifisponge]

Bgheadd8che -

I haven't listend to MA GR in the same room as the Sigs, but every MAGR speaker I have ever heard sounds overblown in the bass (even when they were well away from the front wall) and a touch too sibilant. However, the same shop here that carries MA, also carries the Energy Veritas line. I was seriously considering the top model in the Energy Veritas line until I heard the Sigs. They sound close to the sigs but have less bass extension.

I'm as much into HT as I am stereo. One hesitation I had with the Veritas was the center speaker. Any horizontal center that uses the woofer-tweeter-woofer layout, will, without a doubt, have a serious suck-out in the off-axis frequency response. Paradigm is one of the few companies to use a midrange driver in their center, which solves the off-axis problems.

I hope that helps.

Cheers.

[xswl0931]

Went out today listening to speakers with a friend looking to buy. We started at one place and compared the Studio 100s and B&W 703's. They had quite different sounds so it was hard to compare, but the B&W was too bright for me. We didn't come away blown away by either one. Went to another place and listened to Klipsch RF-7 and Monitor Audio Silver and Gold. The Klipsch completely sucked. I knew it was bright, but this was beyond bright. Between the Gold and Silver, the Silver had a lower extension, but the Gold was definately clearer and more detailed without being bright. So far the MA Gold was the winner. We went to the last place and the salesperson recommended we listen to two different speakers and he wouldn't tell us which was what (the room had a bunch of Monitor and Dali speakers). We both agreed that speaker A was better in the highs and mids, much more "3-dimensional". To our surprise, it was the cheaper speaker. This was the Dali Evidence. Has anyone compared one of the higher end Dali's to the Signature series?

[billfish]

hifisponge,
calling dealer at 5:00 cst 2/2/04. i'll post latest comments. i sure wish i hadn't given up my maples.

[hifisponge]

Billfish -

Got my fingers crossed for ya. Good luck.

Cheers.

[billfish]

rumor has it that Paradigm has had some finish problems on the piano black S8's and, of course, won't release any until they are perfect - maybe the end of March? i can't wait any longer, wish i had never heard them to begin with so i wasn't so eager to get my hands on another pair, so i have a cherry pair coming Monday. at least i can start enjoying them again.

[hifisponge]

Billfish -

So are you getting the cherry S8's instead of the black, or are they on loan? I going with a 5.1 set-up of sigs and I will wait for the black, but I understand your impatience.

- Tim (hifisponge)

[billfish]

hifisponge,

i had returned my maple S8's that were only borrowed and had ordered piano blacks. when i heard the black delay i decided to order the cherry and trade them in when the blacks were finally available.

well, the cherry S8's arrived today and are hooked up and running as i write this. now i understand why higher end speaker manufacturers offer several finishes. people, particularily those who share a living space with a home theater and music system, usually should consider aesthetics to some extent. sometimes it is simply to appease others that share the space.

i've read some comments about the cherry finish relative to the maple finish, most preferring the maple. the maple is absolutely beautiful. i had them for a month and many people commented, some not even into this stuff, that they were just gorgeous. well, i can say now i am not going to wait for the blacks. while the cherry finish is not the ultra high gloss finish the maple is, it is none the less beautiful and very well done. it matches other pieces in my room very well and therefore solves some of that room aesthetics stuff i refered to. these are really exceptionally finished and while they are certainly different from the maples, the care given in finishing is readily apparent. i really like them and will be keeping them. i can say to anyone that was thinking that the cherry was less than a premium finish - it is not. it is just a different finish and beautiful in its own right.

[hifisponge]

Congrats Billfish!

I'm sure that Paradigm wouldn't undermine their new line with a shoddy finish. I would imagine that the cherry has a satin finish, which would better match the finish on most furniture. I'd love to go with one of the beautiful wood veneers, but we have nothing even close in our house, which is is all dark mahogany.

Wish me luck on the wait for the black. The dealer here is still telling me June.

- Hifisponge

[LEVESQUE]

I just ordered a C5 and 2 pair of S2 for the surrounds to be used with my S8.

But they are all in th box until the dedicated HT is finish. Sigh. It will be along month...

But for the price I've paid in canadian dollar, it's like having the C5 for free in the US... Hehehe. We are so lucky in canada.... For once.

[Steve*MH]

How much did you get the C5 for in CN dollars?
I havent heard much talk about the C5 yet, but from the specs and literature, this may be the best piece in the Signature line. An absolute beast of a center channel: 81 lbs--that is the weight of the new Studio 100v.3s. Power handling: 500 watts. Length: 37 in. Range down to 25 hz.(that is the same as some main speakers) From what I can see, it is basically like having a main speaker set on its side with full range capabilities. Amazing for a center channel. Curious of any reactions to the C5 yet.

[LEVESQUE]

The only piece I didn't receive is the C5. Still waiting for it. But will install it only in 1 month. So the impressions will come later.

I can't post the price in here, because alot of poeple would be pretty upset...

[hifisponge]

Thought everyone in this thread would like to know that the black Sigs came in early! I was originally told that they wouldn’t be in until June or July. I've gotten several updates from my dealer since I placed the order earlier this year and every time the ship date was “TBA.” Then the salesman calls and leaves an intentionally ambiguous message about "info on my order". I figured he was finally going to give me a firm date this time, so imagine my surprise when I he tells me they're in! Right on!

I've had them for a little over a week and even though I do have to put them in less than optimal locations, in a less than optimal room, they sound great. Full bodied, but not bloated, detailed but not etched or analytical, and just slightly “laid back” through the mid range (which I like because I like to listen to my music loud). But what stands out most of all is the soundstage—it’s huge. With some music (any with recorded ambience) it sounds like the surround channels are engaged. To top it all off, the salesman is a friend so I got 20% off retail! Can’t beat it.

[hifisponge]

C3 Center - up close and personal . . .

[hifisponge]

Signature S8 w/out grill . . .

[hifisponge]

Signature ADP surround w/out grill

I have a few more pics if anyone is interested. (You'd think these were my babies, and I was a proud father the way I'm showing these off.)

Cheers!

[hifisponge]

BTW - anyone know why this thread doesn't come up when I search for anyof the following words? Paradigm, Signature, S8, Sig. Other threads about these speakers come back, but not this one.

[ultra 150 pilot]

Billfish, I am glad to hear you are happy with the cherry finish I decided to go that route as well, The maple is beautiful but to light for my dedicated ht room they deserve better. The black gloss would reflect off my 123" diag screen. the cherry finish seemed to be the best solution, plus I love the look of nicely done cherry wood.


I don't suppose you could post some pics I would love to see them:D



Thanks, Bob

[Felgar]

I guess I don't blame you for not reading the whole thread Ultra. I posted pics of my Cherry Sig's earlier.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3209489#post3209489

[ultra 150 pilot]

Felgar, thanks! nice speakers. Cherry will darken over time especially if sunlight shines in your room. What stand did you get for the center?

I ordered the premier paradigm stands for my S2's and I need a very short stand for my c3.



Thanks, Bob

[Felgar]

In the end I got the Premier J18 - it looks like the speaker stands except it has 2 pilars. If you got the box with your S2 stands it's shown on the side of the box too.

I've since become quite accustomed to the color and I like them a lot. It was just not what I was expecting back then is all.

[Jason James]

Originally posted by hifisponge
BTW - anyone know why this thread doesn't come up when I search for anyof the following words? Paradigm, Signature, S8, Sig. Other threads about these speakers come back, but not this one.

I don't because that's exactly how I found it.

I finally got to see and hear the S4s today, which was a nice surprise because I didn't think we had a Signature dealer here, and I didn't know he had a demo area (in the house next door!) in spite of having bought my Studios there.

I've been reading about the Sigs since they came out, and to be honest I expected the differences in the highs and midrange to be much more subtle.

I'm racking my brain figuring out how I'm going to come up with the money for the S8s, but one thing's for sure -- I will come up with it.

[hifisponge]

Jason -

Oddly enough, as soon as I posted the message about not being able to find this thread in a search, when I searched right after, my post about not being able to find the thread comes back on the search. The original post from billfish still doesn't come back though, nor do any of the other posts.

I haven't compared the studios to the sigs. What is it about the mids and highs that you found to be improved in the sigs?

- Sponge

[Jason James]

Sponge,
The vocals on the recordings I listened to at the demo were more convincing than with the Studios, and my favorite aspect was when cymbals were struck, they were less harsh and seemed to ring out forever.

I've always found my Studios to be an enjoyable listen, and I still do tonight, but I can't forget how fluid the Sigs were in comparison.

[hifisponge]

Jason -

Thanks for the description. I hope you are able to work a pair of S8's into your life soon. Don't hesitate to barter. Everything is negotiable. I've also heard that several Paradigm dealers allow trade ins. If that doesn't work, there is always www.audiogon.com.

Cheers,

- Sponge

[Jason James]

Yeah, he's going to give me full trade-in on my Studio 100s. The remaining 3k is still going to be a stretch though. And you wouldn't believe what a hard time I'm having deciding on which color to choose.

[LEVESQUE]

If you have a projector and a screen the piano black is like a mirror reflecting light. With a screen, the cherry finish is the least reflective, IMHO.

But the piano black is an awesome finish, and the maple is also very nice.

[hifisponge]

Jason - Where there is a will, there is a way. ;-)

Levesque - So when is that theater room of yours going to be done? I'm jealous. As I'm sure you've seen, my room is far from optimal--in fact it down right sucks. I love our house, and I've done alot to bring it up to date, but I would really like a better room for my system. Say, why didn't you pick up the ADPs as your surrounds? For movies, I've always found that dipoles create a more enveloping and convincing soundscape. In a dedicated room like the one you are building, I would have gone with ADPs on the sides and the S2's as the surround-back and another set of S4s in the rear corners for DVD-A and SACD. Did you go with sig subs as well?

BTW - You're right about the reflectiveness of the gloss black. Though it doesn't affect my set-up, our dogs sometimes bark at their reflection when passing by them. It's quite commical. Oh, and they do take daily dusting.

Cheers,

- Sponge

[LEVESQUE]

My photos are not up-to-date. The contractor is done, but I have a carpenter at home that will finish the stage and the riser this week-end.

Then the 72 sheets of Owans-Corning 703 will have to be carefully place on the walls (analyzing everything with ETF-5), then polybatting, then GOM, then carpet. Then configuring everything.

The 1st of july everything should be done... I hope...

Why no ADP? Because I did try them and prefer some direct-radiating for both music and HT. I put them really high (around 7 feet high) and feel it's a better compromise for both formats. It's really a personnal preference. When well placed (with some room treatment), direct radiating can be really satisfying for HT.

I will probably change my Servo-15 for the Signature Servo in a couple of months. But my 8 bass-shakers in the chairs are helping alot for now!

[Bghead8che]

What is the MSRP ( in USD) for the new sig sub?

-Brian

[Jason James]

$3200, Brian.

Hey, Brian,
I spent a lot of time in St. George putting in the new hospital, and I couldn't find a proper Paradigm dealer down there. Is there one? I found a home theater installation company on Riverside(?), but they wouldn't give me the time of day.

[Bghead8che]

Small world. Yes. Riverside is right.

Boulevard Home Furnishings is a Paradigm Dealer. They are, however, a bunch of idiots. They don't know anything about what they sell.

Let's just say I haven't asked for a demo though I'm dying to hear the new Sigs.

-Brian

[LEVESQUE]

Paradigm Signature S8 review at Secrets.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_3/paradigm-signature-s8-speakers-7-2004.html

[704set]

Are the Sig 8 speakers as power hungry as the Studio 100 speakers?

Thanks,
Skip

[hifisponge]

Skip -

I wouldn't call the S8's, or any Paradigm speaker power hungry. Any good 100 watt SS amp that is stable into a 4ohm load will be able to drive them. They have an 88dB sesnsitivity rating, and like the Studio 100, I would guess that they hit a low of 3.2 ohms at around 100Hz. I run my S8's with a Denon 5800 AV Receiver, and they play as loud and are as controlled as I could ever want. They sound like the are "cruising" even at loud volumes.

Cheers,

- Tim

[billfish]

i agree that the S8's can easily be driven with 100 w and sound great. i was driving with Denon QS10 100 w monoblocks and they performed admirably. but, they really sing with more power. i'm driving S8's with an Anthem Statement P2 at 325 w and an Adcom GFP-750 now and they really shine. also noticed the S8's need to be off the back wall at least 15".

[Woodrow]

Been almost a year.. are all you guys still enjoying your Sigs, or have you moved on to something else?

Thanks,

[Jason James]

I'm still loving my S8s...I got them last June. If I had unlimited amounts of cash I might have moved on, but I'm not the least bit unhappy with them.

[Prozakk]

Originally posted by 9volt
here are some pics courtesy of billfish:

http://www.athenet.net/~mtr/s8-1.jpg

http://www.athenet.net/~mtr/s8-2.jpg

I only see red x's.

http://www.clickmagazine.net/cm/emoticons/catx.gif

[hifisponge]

Woodrow -

Technically I have "moved on", but that was only trade my S8's in for the smaller and easier to place S4's. I have limited placement options and was getting very uneven in-room bass response. That all went away went I got the S4's and mated them with a Velodyne Digital Drive 15" sub. I love these speakers (the entire Sig line), and I think the strongest testament I can give is that I bought and sold some very prestigious speakers in the two years prior to buying the Sigs. I haven't felt the itch to upgrade (the speakers) since.

Cheers,

- Tim

[LEVESQUE]

Originally posted by Woodrow
Been almost a year.. are all you guys still enjoying your Sigs, or have you moved on to something else?


Still enjoying my Signature set-up totally. I also got the Signature Servo to go with the S8 and C5.

Paired with the Anthem Statement D1 and P5, the Signatures are purely singing. The synergy between the room, the speakers and the equipment is simply magical...

Here's the front stage with the S8, C5 and Signature Servo:

http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/501/39995DSC02188_Medium_.JPG

Cherry S8:

http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/501/39995DSC01993_Medium_.JPG

Cherry Signature Servo:

http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/501/39995DSC02183_Medium_.JPG

[Woodrow]

Jason, Tim and Lev,

Thanks guys, and thanks for the pics Lev.

So if you guys had it all to do over today, you'd go with the Sigs again?

I'd be using the S8's in a NON-dedicated room for at least a year and am worried about in-room response, like Tim. Then again, I figure I should get the 8's and just make sure I get them into a dedicated room at some point.

The S4's are still a possibility. Any major differences between the sound of the 4's vs. the 8's, not including bass?

Thanks again guys!

[Evanfew]

I am now the proud owner of two S8's and a C5. I now need to decide about the rear surrounds and Sub. would using two S2's be a mismatch for the other three? Am I better off using the S4's, or is this just unnecessary when utilizing a Sub and using a crossover?

I can't afford the Signature Servo (I'm about to kill myself by purchasing a new D1), and space is an issue. So, would a Seismic 10 integrate well with this system, or am I better off with a Servo 15 from the reference series?

Is anyone following the advice in the brochure and passively bi-amping S8's?

[Soundstage]

Just compared the PSB Platinum T8 to the Sig 8 for the last week and was definitely more impressed with the PSB.

[Woodrow]

Originally posted by Soundstage
Just compared the PSB Platinum T8 to the Sig 8 for the last week and was definitely more impressed with the PSB.
Details?:)

[Soundstage]

I really liked both speakers and had never considered the Platinums but a dealer friend asked me to take a set home for the week and see what I thought. Did double blind and non double blind testing and preferred the PSB's larger soundstage, better depth and layering with orchestral music, could hear several rows back on the PSB that we couldn't on the Paradigm. The mids were a wash with the PSB being slightly more laidback which I do prefer. The highs were ever so slightly brighter on the PSB but not to the point of being irritating but rather just slightly airier which allowed better note decay. The midbass and bass was tighter and more lean on the PSB which again is a personal preference but in my room I know the Sigs were adding bloom and warmth they shouldn't have been. Both ARE fabulous speakers.

[Woodrow]

Originally posted by Soundstage
I really liked both speakers and had never considered the Platinums but a dealer friend asked me to take a set home for the week and see what I thought. Did double blind and non double blind testing and preferred the PSB's larger soundstage, better depth and layering with orchestral music, could hear several rows back on the PSB that we couldn't on the Paradigm. The mids were a wash with the PSB being slightly more laidback which I do prefer. The highs were ever so slightly brighter on the PSB but not to the point of being irritating but rather just slightly airier which allowed better note decay. The midbass and bass was tighter and more lean on the PSB which again is a personal preference but in my room I know the Sigs were adding bloom and warmth they shouldn't have been. Both ARE fabulous speakers.
Thanks Soundstage. Would you feel the same way if they were for home theater only, no music?

In case anyone is wondering, I'm just trying to make a short list of speakers that I should listen to.

So far: Revel F32, F50. Paradigm Sigs. PSB is another I can listen to locally. Although, I've had some bad experiences with NAD and I'm not sure PSB would be any different, as far as customer service. It's also something I've read about with Paradigm..ie, you have to call your dealer when having an issue. I've read that Paradigm will having nothing to do with end users. Some killer customer service stories regarding Paradigm would help if anyone has one to share. Same for Revel or PSB. Thanks guys,

[Soundstage]

Lenbrook is actually fairly good to deal with. I just got them to email me a few firmware upgrades for some NAD stuff I have. It should be said even though I compared these two speakers NEITHER are replacing my Veritas 2.4i.

[Woodrow]

Here's a quick link to the Veritas Soundstage mentions:

http://www.audioreview.com/PRD_128284_1594crx.aspx

Soundstage, what have the Veritas got that the others lack? Thanks again for letting me pick your brain.:)

[Woodrow]

Oh gosh, just the word Lenbrook sends shudders down my spine.:O

I bought a NAD T773 receiver that hummed and buzzed to no end and they refused to do anything but play musical receivers and blame me. I tried three, that was it. I ended up with a NAD T973 power amp that is dead silent. This, to avoid a restocking fee.

[Soundstage]

Originally posted by Woodrow
Here's a quick link to the Veritas Soundstage mentions:

http://www.audioreview.com/PRD_128284_1594crx.aspx

Soundstage, what have the Veritas got that the others lack? Thanks again for letting me pick your brain.:)

They are just engineered so damned perfectly. The big difference is the almost total lack of colouration and dead on accuracy. The dome midrange and the crossover is what really makes it such an honest and musical transducer. For the performance they are vastly underpriced so if it's possible please add it to your auditon list.

[Woodrow]

Originally posted by Soundstage
They are just engineered so damned perfectly. The big difference is the almost total lack of colouration and dead on accuracy. The dome midrange and the crossover is what really makes it such an honest and musical transducer. For the performance they are vastly underpriced so if it's possible please add it to your auditon list.
If I can listen to them locally, I will certainly give them a listen. Thanks for the heads up.:) They're on the list!

[Nicholas Mosher]

My realistic/obtainable dream speakers would be 5x Signature S2s in Birds-Eye Maple. Man do those sound nice... :eek:

I'm jealous of all you Signature owners! :o :mad: ;)

[networknerdvana]

This thread has been great. I have gotten good pictures of Birdseye maple (I mean besides the low pixel ones from Paradigm), Piano Black and of course .... Cherry.

You do realize that this might be the only place on the web where you can see the piano black finish in all of its glory??

Anyways. Is there anyone ... anyone at all that has bought the "Rosewood" finish of anything in the Paradigm signature line??? Do you have a pic? I am very curous to see what it looks like. All the sig reviewers go gaga over birds-eye maple, people think that the cherry looks excellent, piano black looks very classy and rosewood ....

.... is the forgotton finish.

Nobody even mentioned too much about it even on this thread which is the definitive source of paradigm sig finishes on the entire net. (and yeah. I have seen the pdf with the 4 finish samples, I even have the booklet from the dealer....) Rosewood varies so much (type rosewood into images.google.com) I would like to see what the paradigm sig version of rose wood looks like. Is it like a stop sign red? Does it look super awesome cool?. My dealer has only BEM finish of course ... audiogon ... nobody is selling it at the moment.

ThankyouX100 if you can snap several high quality rosewood pics and post them!!

-NN

[Evanfew]

I have taken a few pictures of my Signature S8,s in a rosewood finish for you. However, when I tried to attach one of the pictures to this post, it informed me that the file was too big. I'm afraid I don't know how to correct this. If you have any ideas on how to work around this, let me know and I will try again. I have a five megapixel camera. Perhaps I could e-mail you the photos?

Evan

[networknerdvana]

I shrunk the pics from Evanfew from 2500x1600 down to 640x400 and now ... drumroll ... What follows are some of the very few pics of Paradigm Signature ANYTHING in the rosewood finish anywhere on the Internet ..... Enjoy

[networknerdvana]

nUMBA 2

[networknerdvana]

Numba 3,

Conclusion: Rosewood II is an awesome finish.

Its lower in luster but I like the bookmatching on the grain and I like the way it matches the rosewood/reddish wood theme Evanfew has got going with the similar matched stained TV stand, very cohesive which I think is very important consideration. The speakers go together with all the rest of the setup.

People with a light maple/light color wood decor have got to consider with Birds-Eye Maple unless they have rear projector or other light reflection considerations.

The Cherry is very nice even tho somewhat less expensive finish and matches more of the medium wood tone theme.

If I had the TV stand that Evanfew has it would be no contest. Rosewood would be my number one pick.

Right now the delema I have is that I have got a black/silver home theatre equipment theme going in a otherwise light colored living room ( a rental I am not attached to so no big deal on that). The couch is also lighter in color. I have to admit I am leaning toward piano black. My old setup was a total mishmash of various wood grain colors and was very tiring to look at. With the silver/black stands the S4s might looks quite nice with my setup.

Finally after seeing at least pictures of all the finishes I am very impressed with all of them. It just comes down to what you've got and what you want.

[LEVESQUE]

For those interested I have found some professionnal reviews of the Signatures speakers:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_3/paradigm-signature-s8-speakers-7-2004.html

http://www.hometheatersound.com/equipment/paradigm_signature_s8_c5_adp_servo.htm

http://www.hometheatermag.com/loudspeakers/1004paradigm/

http://www.guidetohometheater.com/speakersystems/1104paradigm/

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_3/paradigm-signature-speakers-9-2004.html

[Evanfew]

Hey LEVESQUE,

I hope that the pictures of my pathetically small HT room made you that much more grateful and proud of your incredible home theater. Now you can see why I am mortally afraid to utilize a P5 in this space. The paramedics would literally have to peel me off the opposite wall!

P.S. I hope to be moving to a larger home in the next year or so, if for no other reason than to give a better home to these magnificent speakers.

[LEVESQUE]

Originally posted by Evanfew
Now you can see why I am mortally afraid to utilize a P5 in this space. The paramedics would literally have to peel me off the opposite wall!


:D You're funny!

I'm an enthusiast, and I'm always looking at other AVS members galleries. I don't know why, but I can't stop looking at others set-ups and rooms, and I'm impressed by the versatility and imagination we can see in those galleries.

Your TV stand matching with the awesome finish of your speakers is a good exemple. Nice work!

[Evanfew]

Your TV stand matching with the awesome finish of your speakers is a good exemple. Nice work!

Thanks Buddy, that's nice of you of you to say. However, it certainly can't compete to the custom trim you had made to match your cherry finish. It IS a blast to see what our fellow brethren have created in their Home Theaters. I guess we all make the most of what we have to work with.

Networknerdvana was kind enough to post two other pictures of my little man cave under the thread "Paradigm Signature in Rosewood", that really shows just how small the room is. The C5 is just wonderfully absurd in this tiny space (I am completely aware that this is a sonic train wreck, and would make the engineers at paradigm visibly wince in pain). It looks like a 14-year-old boy got his hands on a credit card and bought his dream sound system for his little bedroom. This is of course, for all essential purposes what has actually occurred!

[networknerdvana]

Im gonna go with a pair of S4's and a C3 center. I am not rich enough to buy the S8's and I move a hell of a lot. The 40lb S4's with only one bass driver is good enough for this cave-man. The SVSPB10 might even be overkill in the living room, but what the heck.

In a bit I may buy the Sig ADP's. The J23 stands are pricy at 300 bucks but with the shiny silver like front and the black for the rest of the stands it should match with what I have right now.

I have the Studiotech performance series and they are great. Sold steel, very sturdy compared to the particle board junk I had before ... If I was doing wood I would insist on real hardwood. That particle board stuff disintegrates and is really heavy to boot.

http://www.studiotech.com/jsp/productSelection.jsp?type=racks

I have the 3 shelf TV stand for the sharp 37" lcd with the 4 shelf component rack. The black shelves look really nice against the silver. After finally seeing all the finishes Im going with the piano black. Seeing Evanfew's setup made me realize how important it is that stuff works together. It doesn't have to match perfectly, it just has to work.

For my existing furnishings I would rank the sig finishes as piano black (first) rosewood II (a close second). birds=eye-maple, and finally cherry (I am not really into orange but thats just me).

I also really like the super high gloss that I saw in person on the BE-maple at the dealers. The shinyness (not an issue with my LCD) made the speakers look very classy.

I post a pic when I order and they arrive, and ya'all get to see what my little cave-man room looks like.

[Bing]

levesque:

Where did you buy the OC703 from? Where can I look up prices?

[LEVESQUE]

Originally posted by Bing
levesque:

Where did you buy the OC703 from? Where can I look up prices?

At my local Home Hardware for 6$ cdn a sheet. Comes in pack of 24 sheets.

[hifisponge]

Networknerdvana -

It's been a while since I've checked this thread, but I thought you'd get a kick out of the pics of my set-up since it essentially mirrors what you plan to get.

One thing you may notice is that I've perched the S4's on the taller, 29" Premier stands. Technically this places the tweeter a bit above ear level (though about the same as the S8), but the dispersion of the entire Sig line is so wide that there is no perceptible HF loss. I like the slightly raised perspective the higher stands provide, and frankly the taller-than- usual size of the S4 "bookshelf" looks more at home on the taller stand.

I hope you enjoy your new gear as much as I obviously do. :D

Cheers,

- Tim

[hifisponge]

. . . a close-up "money" shot of the right S4.

Toyt . . Toyt like a tiger . . . ;)

[LEVESQUE]

hifisponge

The piano-black finish is really sweet!

[hifisponge]

Originally posted by LEVESQUE
hifisponge

The piano-black finish is really sweet!

Thanks Levesque! As was said in several posts earlier, it really helps if pick a finish that compliments the rest of your equipment and/or decor. Personally, I wish Paradigm had offered the "black bird's eye maple" they were initially planning to. I suppose they didn't want to look like they were copying the B&W Signature 804s, but the black bird's eye was a real show stopper. I'm taunted every time I look at the shipping carton for my Sigs, as the piano black label on the box was placed over the top of the "black bird's eye" option. In fact, from the early pics I've seen of the Sig line, it looked like all of them were going to be bird's eye wood with different stains.

You can just barely see them in this link: http://www.smr-home-theatre.org/cedia2002/loudspeakers/image_06.shtml

BTW - glad to see you finally got you're dedicated room together. That is my next goal.

[networknerdvana]

I got my S4 pair and C3. Here is what it looks like in my setup. Rosewood would have worked for sure but the piano black totally rocks on my 23" high black/silver stands. They look so cooooooool!

[networknerdvana]

Paradigm S4 pair C3 center, SVS PB10 subwoofer, Sharp 37" G4U, studio tech tv stand equipment rack, Yammy RXV2500 amp, a dishy 942 and my fav ... EXB1200 ultrabass sub synth mod to down to 5Hz with BK amp and BK LFE....wooo baby!