Sony ES DVP-CX777ES reviews?

[longshanksdvd]

Anyone have one of these that can comment? Any reviews yet?

[chadly25]

I have one of these units in my system and couldn't be more pleased. Combine it with a DVDM-100 and you got yourself a great little combo.

[jaylard]

I have also been very interested in the DVP-CX777ES, and have demo'd it a couple of times at local electronics stores. My primary concern about this player -- and the main reason I have held off purchasing one -- is that it seems to have a substantial lag on layer changes.

The Secrets web site recently tested the CX777ES's smaller sibling, the DVP-NC555ES (a 5-disc changer), and failed the player on its layer-change torture test (under admittedly severe conditions unlikely in a typical layer change), giving the player the worst mark in this particular category of all the players recently tested. The player took 4 seconds to switch layers.

In terms of core electronics, the NC555ES and the CX777ES are largely identical, and would likely perform about the same in this respect. I have tested the CX777ES at two stores using The Lion King SE DVD, and on both players the disc paused about one to two seconds on layer change and tended to exhibit a slight audio stutter when it resumed, as if it slightly clipped the frame after the layer change.

I would be interested in feedback from chadly25 and others: does your experience confirm mine? And if so, is it that you consider that level of performance acceptable in a player that sells for nearly $800 in many places?

[chadly25]

James,

I have noticed a slight delay on a layer skip one time with this DVD player. It seemed to only take a second. I didn't time it but it was a definate delay in swithching layers and it was very noticable. The DVD was Seabiscuit so give this on a try in other DVD players and see if you notice similar occurances or if it is the 777ES. I wouldn't say it is acceptable for any DVD player, especially one in the 800.00 range. But I will tell you that this DVD player does some many other things that really makes it worth it to me. For instance, I already mentioned that it works with my Escient DVDM-100 to manage my DVD collection (wife acceptance factor was extremely high on this one), it outputs composite, S, and progressive component simultaniously which makes it perfect for a distributed A/V system. Not many other players do that.

As far as the audio skip between layers, that may not be a 777ES problem. Most audio receiver, when hooked up to digital audio, will timeout when there is a lack of an audio stream. The best way to test this would be to hook up the analog audio from the DVD player and see if the delay still occurs.

[longshanksdvd]

Chadly25, without the Escient DVDM100, does the sony do a good job of listing what DVDs are loaded? What information does it give?

[chadly25]

I initially bought this unit believing that I wouldn't purchase the Escient piece. I figured if it listed all of my DVD's and gave cover art then I would be very happy with it as a standalone DVD player. What I didn't realize is that only a fraction of my DVD's actually had the text encoded on them to be displayed by the 777ES, and even fewer had the cover art. If you have the patience to plug in a keyboard and choose your own cover art then this does an okay job at displaying your DVD's info. The info consists pretty much of the title of the movie. You can go into the menu and attach a genre tag to it if you would like.

[longshanksdvd]

May I ask the price ranges for the Escient?

[chadly25]

msrp is 2k

[Don Black]

I plan on picking up 3 of these changers in the next 6 months after the price drops a bit (I hope). I will be pairing it with a Slink-e/DVD Lobby/touchscreen interface (once they release a version with the 777ES supported natively). The Escient is just too expensive imho for what you can get with DVD/Music Lobby and an HTPC.

[jaylard]

Don Black,

I plan on picking up 3 of these changers in the next 6 months after the price drops a bit (I hope). I will be pairing it with a Slink-e/DVD Lobby/touchscreen interface (once they release a version with the 777ES supported natively).

The DVDLobby software is something that I have had an interest in. What would native support for the CX777ES mean, exactly? And do you know when such a version is supposed to be released?

[jaylard]

chadly25,

I have noticed a slight delay on a layer skip one time with this DVD player. It seemed to only take a second. I didn't time it but it was a definate delay in swithching layers and it was very noticable.

Does this mean that with most movies the layer change on the CX777ES is completely transparent? Or just that it is just less-noticeable than with the Seabiscuit DVD? I'm just wondering if my test with The Lion King SE DVD was typical or atypical of the CX777ES's behavior.

[chadly25]

I will do some testing and let you know for sure, but I have watched 20-30 movies and only noticed layer change once. It could be that most of these films are all encoded on one layer of the film, but I am not sure. Do you have a suggestion of a DVD with a "normal" layer change that I can use as a reference?

[Jgabrius]

Chadly,

Do you have any experience with Sony's 875p? If so, can you comment on relative picture quality differences?

Thanks!

[jaylard]

chadly25,

Do you have a suggestion of a DVD with a "normal" layer change that I can use as a reference?

My test disc was The Lion King SE. You could also try The Fellowship of the Ring, Extended Edition, disc 2, if you have it. I recall a slight pause on my old DVD player on that layer change.

[chadly25]

I have installed a few of the 875's but have yet to throw in a VE or Avia disc. I know that some of the older sony's dvd players/changers have had some issues, but this seems to be a pretty big step in the right direction. I will check tonight on layer changes and get back with you in the morning.

[mcascio]

Originally posted by jaylard
Don Black,

The DVDLobby software is something that I have had an interest in. What would native support for the CX777ES mean, exactly? And do you know when such a version is supposed to be released?

Hi Guys,

Native support means control over the CX777ES via Serial cable without the Slinke or any other devices.

I recently received the CX777ES unit and am finally testing the driver with the unit from DVDLobby Pro 3. It's rather nice, for most movies, you can skip right to the movie bypassing warnings, trailers and even the menu system.

Upon initial tests, it takes about 20 seconds to go from one movie to the next, which is really very quick compared to the 875P which required delays in order to plan for various situations.

We'll probably release a version of the plugin for the CX777ES soon that will allow existing users to send commands to the changer. We are also working on a completely new software package designed entirely around the CX777ES that will provide 2 way feedback onscreen (touchscreen users). Our goal is also to grab all information from each Disc and populate cover art along with other information for the DVD database you'll have access to. We've also got a few other tricks up our sleeve. :) We'll definitely have an upgrade option for those wanting this newer version.

The interface is themed around the look/feel of the CX777ES unit itself. So it's very slick!

I was hoping to do some comparisons between my 875P and the CX777ES, but it was sold before I even received the 777. So I never had the chance.

Hope this helps.

[Don Black]

Mario: Two quick questions please.

1) Will the 2-way feedback upgrade be free for DVDLobby 3 owners?

2) If I have 3 777ES changers, where do the three serial cables plug into with native support? Do I need 3 serial ports on my computer (most of course only have 2)?


Thanks!

[jaylard]

Mario,

Thanks for the detailed info, and the intriguing teases! ;) I have to admit that I have yet to fully understand DVDLobby, and how it interacts with MainLobby and MusicLobby, but that's probably a discussion for a different thread. The ability to control the CX777ES directly from the PC with a serial cable, and without the $250 slinke, is especially interesting. Please keep us posted when this product is released.

[mcascio]

Don,

The current version of DVDLobby Pro will work with the Sony CX777ES. We are actually writing a standalone application so it won't really be a DVDLobby type product and will be specifically written for this changer. It will be much more advanced because of the 2way capabilities. We also realize at this price point, users are looking for a quick install, so while it won't have all the flexibility of DVDLobby/MainLobby, the user should be able to get up and running quite quickly. While we will offer discounted pricing to our existing customers, it's really not an upgrade since it's not in the same product family. I guess I really shouldn't convey too much until we have all details, pricing and features worked out. This product will be sold to a limited market as well, so the pricing will be substantially higher than DVDLobby itself. DVDLobby caters to all changers, media storage, much wider audience, etc. At the same time, users won't have to drop $250 on extra hardware to interact with the changer any more. Keep in mind, none of this is engraved in stone and is subject to change.

We're tossing around a possible complete solution for this changer all designed with the look/feel of the changer itself: PocketPC, TouchScreen, Remote Control TV version, etc.

I'm looking into whether we'll be initially supporting 3 changers via serial control.

Regardless, we'll still be 15x cheaper than the competition. :)

Hope this helps.

[mcascio]

Hi Folks,

We're planning a release of the Driver for the Sony CX777ES fairly soon. It will require a Null Modem cable connection between your computer and the Changer. The good thing is that you can assign the Com Port which means you could connect an endless amount of these changers to your computer.

This plugin will work with the existing version of DVDLobby/MainLobby and our MLServer application. It will also work with our Pocket PC version of DVDLobby. So you can select your movie and control it directly from your Pocket PC without the need for additional remotes.

When cueing up a movie, the user can also build macros to play a movie intro, change input settings on receivers (requires hardware), etc.

[cpd1]

Hi Mario,

Can't wait. I picked up a unit on Friday and the interface is truly awful to get through DVDs. I am on standby for this so I can run everything from DVD lobby. Now off to scan 400 DVDs into DVD profiler...
Thanks Mario

[jaylard]

mcascio wrote:This plugin will work with the existing version of DVDLobby/MainLobby and our MLServer application. It will also work with our Pocket PC version of DVDLobby. So you can select your movie and control it directly from your Pocket PC without the need for additional remotes.
I'm pretty new to the whole world of audio and video technology (coming from the realm of computers, myself), and I find that I can't quite sort out the suite of Lobby applications from your company. I've been to the Cinemar web site (http://www.cinemaronline.com/), and have only a vague and somewhat confused sense of the full picture of what these applications do.

How do the various Lobby applications (especially MainLobby, DVDLobby, MusicLobby, and MLServer) work together? Why would I need one if I have another? If I wanted to control the DVP-CX777ES with Lobby applications, would I also need MusicLobby to handle the audio discs stored in the changer? And so forth. Somehow, although I can't quite pinpoint it, there seems to be an assumed expertise related to the Lobby applications, Home Theater PCs, and interaction with audio/video hardware that I don't have.

If there is already a thread where this is spelled out, please point me to it. Or if not, since this thread isn't really about DVDLobby, it might make sense to start a new thread to discuss it in more depth.

If you were to work up some new, introductory material designed for newbies explaining your products and how they interact with one another and with related audio/video hardware, I would be happy to give you my personal feedback on whether it connected the dots for me.

[cpd1]

Hi James,

I am sure Mario will be much better than I can ever be to spell out the full details on the lobby suite. However, I discovered the software over the summer as I was building my HTPC. Main Lobby in itself is really a software front end that you can use to control all your AV gear from a PC. My goal was to have it running from my HTPC and using a software called girder (http://www.girder.nl) to send all the IR commands to a small USB device USB UIRT (http://www.usbuirt.com/) which trhem will feed my IR distribution network. It was a nice way to integrate my HTPC whic I intended to use as a media server along with teh rest of my system. You can also run Main lobby from a tablet PC or a Pocket PC which makes for a VERY nice remote panel. Also nowq ML server nicely repalces most of trhe function of girder.
Now DVD Lobby is an extension, basically another skin within MainLobby specifically designed for managing DVDs. The latest version 3.0 now offers and optimized UI for TVs and looks great on my plasma. I have started to load up mny DVD collection and they are sorted by genre and so on. You have a nice picture of the cover and a quick movie summary. You now can teach your Pronto for instance the navigation arrows from an IR keyboard and voila. Now I assume the DVP plugin will just allow you to talk directly to the changer and to specify which clot each DVD is in and launch it from there. The great advantage is that once set up the system has an extremely high Wife Acceptance factor, it just looks great. A bit of work but definitely worth it!
Hope this helps

Cyril

[galileo2000]

I can only confirm what Cyril said. USB-UIRT + Girder is the best combination to control megachangers.

I control my Pioneer F727 now, but 777ES is tempting...

[jaylard]

cpd1,

Your post both answered and raised questions in my mind, mixing USB UIRT and girder into the mix. Another piece of the hardware pie is Slinke, which Cinemar promotes on its web site.

The Lobby series is priced low enough that it will appeal even to those who are not HTPC experts -- unlike, say, the Escient (http://www.escient.com/) Fireball DVDM-100 (http://www.escient.com/fireballdvdm100.html) which has a MSRP of nearly US$2000. I guess the question that comes to my mind is: does Cinemar market the Lobby suite exclusivley to the hardcore HTPC crowd, or does it want to expand its market to newbies and dabblers who have an interest in integrating a PC into their audio/video system without the hardcore knowledge and commitment. I think the Lobby suite's pricing, flexibility, and interface argue for a broader market, but its web site, IMO, is geared toward the initiated faithful.

[mcascio]

Hi James,

I think if you plan on controlling the CX777ES solely, you won't need to integrate the USBUIRT or Girder - you'll be able to do this through a null modem cable instead. However, if you would like to control other components outside of the CX777ES, you'll need someway to do that in which case these products and/or the Slinke will be a good way to go.

We are constantly working to make the applications easier to use. Some of the complexity stems from the flexibility and unlimited expandibility of the software.

At the same time, we are working on some other products that are geared for the market you suggest. An "out of the box" solution if you will.

[longshanksdvd]

I hate to dig up a old thread......but those who have had this unit now for a few weeks, any regrets? Is there work arounds with the Sony interface?

I really like the idea of a changer like this but I am having a hard time parting with my Denon 2900.


Finally, did you pay list for the player?

[jslepicka]

I've had one since they were introduced... a few months ago, I guess.

My impressions:

Video and audio quality are top notch. Finally rid of the chroma bug on the DVP-9000ES which annoyed me so much.

Having all of my discs accessible from one unit is great. Moving almost 400 DVD cases out of my living room is what really makes me happy, though. This feature makes the player more valuable to me than any single disc player.

The interface. Oh boy, it sucks. Navigation is slow, especially when discs have cover art. When you scroll through the DVD list, titles aren't visible, so it's a pain to find stuff with a large library. Titles are limited to 16(?) characters, so long titles are cut off. The player uses title info from the disc if it has it (maybe 30% of them), but it is not modifiable. This is a problem because there's no consistency in how titles are stored -- e.g. 'The Beastmaster' vs. 'Beastmaster, The'.

As much as the interface sucks, though, I just bought another one (did not pay MSRP). Having a changer and getting rid of the DVD case clutter is well worth it. I also bought an Escient DVDM-100 [MSRP $2000] to control them. If my post doesn' t make it clear how much I hate the interface, that should :)

Even without the Escient unit, though, the a/v quality and storage benefits are great, and the interface annoyances are really nothing more than annoyances. I'd recommend it to anyone who asks.

Hope this helps --
James

[galileo2000]

Hi,

Can somebody confirm or deny that there are problems with the picture after few weeks / months as reported in the thread below for CX555ES?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=340640&highlight=cx777es

Very strange, I'd like to know for sure if possible.

Thanks.

[jslepicka]

No video problems here.

The layer change is noticable at times.

[galileo2000]

Thanks jslepicka.

Are you happy overall with this Sony?

[jslepicka]

In general, yes. You can read my gripes about the interface a few posts up on this thread.

Just received my second one today along with the Escient DVD-M100 manager, so I'll post my impressions in a week or two.

[zoro]

i am wondering, should i get 555es, new or demo yamaha cx1 with full waranty..prices simillar

[galileo2000]

James,

I don't really care about the interface. I am going to integrate it into my Home Theater computer-based system the same way I now have my Pioneer F727 integrated. Using USB-UIRT IR sender/receiver, I can select any DVD by name, click the button on my wireless keyboard - and it plays.
$85 solution, works for me, but I am a computer guy to begin with.

Please post more notes, and if possible, source where you've got your units.

To me, the most important features are :
- progressive output;
- 400 disk capacity;
- 5 years parts / labor warranty;
- nice look in my A/V tower :)

[jslepicka]

It'll definitely meet your most important features list.

I also thought about developing some software to control it with a computer / pocket pc (I'm also a computer guy). When I read about the Escient unit, I just went ahead and bought it to avoid having to deal with controlling multiple units.

Don't really have more notes that I can think of, off the top of my head. Feel free to ask me anything else about it and I'll gladly answer, though.

I bought the first unit from onecall. The second one I got from abt electronics. Price and service were good at both places.

James

[DaveFi]

www.my.sony.com has the 985 for $339+2000pts (easy to get) shipped.

No 777 tho.

[Don Black]

You can pickup 3 of the 777ESs from Crutchfield right now for a little north of $650/each shipped.

[galileo2000]

Crutchfield Little north is $799.

Too cold by my choice, I prefer mild climat and pricing.


I once had a boss named Crutchfield. She was fine lady.

[jslepicka]

If you add 3 of them to your shopping cart at Crutchfield, you'll get a reduced price.

I paid $599 for my last one from abt -- might have been because I purchased $3500 of other stuff at the same time, though. Don't know what their regular price is.

[galileo2000]

Thanks James.

My tower does not have a room for 3. I just want to be 100% sure I want one.

[jaylard]

If you are certain that you want the CX777ES, and you're willing to wait a few weeks, CDW has the best price (http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=556553) that I've seen anywhere. CDW customer service says, however, that once you sign for the unit you can't return it.

[emillika]

Originally posted by mcascio
Hi Folks,

We're planning a release of the Driver for the Sony CX777ES fairly soon. It will require a Null Modem cable connection between your computer and the Changer. The good thing is that you can assign the Com Port which means you could connect an endless amount of these changers to your computer.

This plugin will work with the existing version of DVDLobby/MainLobby and our MLServer application. It will also work with our Pocket PC version of DVDLobby. So you can select your movie and control it directly from your Pocket PC without the need for additional remotes.

When cueing up a movie, the user can also build macros to play a movie intro, change input settings on receivers (requires hardware), etc.

Mario,

Do you have an ETA for this solution?

Thanks.

Elmer

[mcascio]

Elmer,

We're hoping to have the driver that will send/control the CX777ES ready for DVDLobby sometime this week.

[Don Black]

Mario,

Any ETA on the stand alone DVD Lobby for the 777ES? Just a ballpark like days, weeks or months woud be great. Thanks.

[galileo2000]

Thanks James,

Did you get one for yourself?

[jslepicka]

Yes -- I have two now. Just received the one from abt the other day.

[zoro]

Did some one open to confirm/rule out DCDI inside? and what kinda DA converters

[galileo2000]

James,

I know you have two:) I was asking James Aylard.


zoro,

I don't think it has DCDi, but it's little brother xp555es did pass Faroudja internal tests.

[jslepicka]

oops :o sorry about that

[galileo2000]

No problem whatsoever. I hope you are enjoying them.

I went to Abt site, and they list it for $799.

[jaylard]

galileo2000,Did you get one for yourself?Not yet. I came very, very close, but the layer-change lag caused me to flinch. The CX777ES is still on my short list, but I thought that I would wait to see whether anything interesting shook out of CES 2004 before making my decision.I don't think it has DCDi, but it's little brother xp555es did pass Faroudja internal tests.Which led the Secrets reviewer to speculate (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=112#SonyNC555ES) that it might conceivably have some kind of Faroudja technology inside.

[galileo2000]

Well, it woldn't surprise me. Sony has been in bed with Faroudja for some time, using Faroudja chips for their MiniDV cams ( I had TRV30 which clearly stated "Faroudja licensed" on the bottom of the unit).
Of course we won't know until somebody will be brave enough to open it up.

Well, I am almost ready. It now depends as of how much I get for my Pioneer DV-F727 which I love. But the unit is 3 years old and is 480i only.
And I have 270 DVD's and will be out of space soon - Pioneer is 300 "only".

[Don Black]

Thanks for the CDW tip. I'm a little concerned that they aren't an authorized Sony dealer. But Sony doesn't say that they will deny warranty claims from unauthorized dealers just that they "recommend" authorized ones. Hmm...

[zoro]

where it says they r not authorized.?

[DaveFi]

The 985 and the 777 use virtually the same components don't they?

I really like my cheapie Sharp DV-S2U's (DCDi) PQ. If the PQ is as good I might pick up that 985.

Only thing really mising is DVI.

[galileo2000]

zoro,

they are not. Authorized dealers are onecall, crutchfield and abt, and all 3 of them proudly offer the player for $799.

Can someone confirm/deny that 985 and 777 have the same internal in terms of DVD playback?

Thanks.

[jaylard]

galileo200,Can someone confirm/deny that 985 and 777 have the same internal in terms of DVD playback?Mechanically, I would guess that both units share many parts in common. However, electronically, they do have significant differences such as:

108MHz video DAC (985) vs. 216 MHz video DAC (777)
96 kHz audio DAC (985) vs. 192 kHz audio DAC (777)
This suggests that the core electronics are of entirely different parentage, and probably differ in production quality, as well. I presume that the five-year ES warranty isn't just slapped on a repackaged standard Sony unit, but that it does truly reflect build-quality and component-quality differences. You'd probably have to do an A/B comparison, though, to know whether the 985 was worth the savings, or the 777 worth the extra.

[galileo2000]

Thanks James.

Yes, it is a $300 question.

[DaveFi]

I really have no need for the RS232 support, etc.
That said, I am a bit dissapointed of the reported poor navigation of Sony's units.

Are there any new DVD Jukeboxes on the horizon with better navigation/more features?

[galileo2000]

I have no need for RS-232 either. Futher, I don't care about navigation.

All I care is picture quality. I have Sony 61HS10 HDTV with Sony DRC.

One gentleman had an opinion that 480i scaled by DRC to 960i actually looks better on this TV than "pure" 480p.

Now I am even more confused...

[Don Black]

Well, CDW isn't an authorized "online" retailer. However, you can call your order in. And CDW says that they have a good relationship with Sony whatever that means. But these are "Restricted Return" items and can't be returned (if you buy from CDW). Hmmm...

[zoro]

Good to know? I'll check with them certainly

[Kirby Baker]

It seems that most people are seeing about a 1 second layer change time on this unit. Right? Are there any mega changers from anyone that do better? My kenwood changer seems to be about 2 seconds usually.

Really thinking about getting one of these units now, especially if I can get it down to around $600, and use Mario's software to control it! Any other concerns with this unit from those of you with one?

[galileo2000]

I don't really like this CDW thing. What does it mean you cannot return it? Any respectable retailer offers at least 30 days return on defective units with no restock fee. This "new policy" makes me suspicious.

[jslepicka]

Kirby -- that layer change time sounds about right.

galileo2000 -- CDW is pretty reputable, so I wouldn't worry about them ripping you off (although, if it doesn't work, sending a new unit to the manufacturer to get it replaced with a refurb sucks). I may be mistaken, but I think the ES warranty is only valid when purchased from an authorized retailer. Personally, I'd spend the little bit extra for the peace of mind.

[Mancubus]

'It seems that most people are seeing about a 1 second layer change time on this unit. Right? Are there any mega changers from anyone that do better? My kenwood changer seems to be about 2 seconds usually.'

My Pioneer was sub 1 second, probably closer to .5 to .75. I wouldn't look at the 727 though, although it's a great player it's the oldest megachanger on the market and is _well_ overdue for an upgrade.

[Kirby Baker]

So a 1 second layer change sounds about as good as it gets now, for new megachangers?

As for warranty on the units from CDW, will they accept a return for a DOA? The part about an ES warranty not being valid unless bought from an authorized dealer would indeed suck if its true.

[jslepicka]

I haven't looked at the other mega-changers, but I'd assume this is about as good as it gets. The layer change only really annoys me when it's mid-scene.

Like I said, I could be mistaken on the warranty issue, but if CDW won't accept a dead unit, the best you'll end up with, if Sony honors the warranty, is a refurb.

[Kirby Baker]

I emailed CDW to see what they say about the warranty issues. Going to see what Sony has to say as well. If the Sony warranty is valid, and CDW will accept a DOA, I see nothing of real concern, since this is the changer I want, and if it works, it works. Very attractive price too, at $559.

Ugh, does Sony really know their own poicies?

I just got off the phone with Sony, and the woman I spoke with told me that this DVD changer has a 1 year parts, 90 day labor warranty only. She also said that it would be covered, even if purchased from a non-authorized dealer, so long as I have the receipt. I then asked her why Crutchfield, an authorized dealer, has a 5 year parts and labor warranty on this item, and she thinks that it is a Crutchfield extended warranty, not Sony's.

So is she right?

[galileo2000]

Thanks Kirby. Keep us posted.

If ES warranty only valid from "authorized dealers" (who want $799 for being authorized), I will get 985V instead for under $400, compare it to my Pioneer 727 and ebay one or another.

Edit: ES is by definition 5 years Parts and Labor warranty. This woman doen't know what she is talking about. If it is not true, one of the most attractive points of this player is gone. I am not paying $799 for this thing. I'll get 985 instead and will live with 108 instead of 216 if I can notice it at all.

[Mancubus]

galileo2000, as an ex 727 owner I am interested in your results. Let me know how it compares.

Thanks.

[zoro]

985 is under $200

[galileo2000]

zoro,

huh?

Where?

I'll get 3 of them for under $200.

[Kirby Baker]

The only way I can see how this woman might be right is that Sony might have feared 5 years parts/labor on a megachanger? But I agree, every ES warranty I ever saw was 5 years.

How about one of you guys that actually has one, whats your warranty read?

[galileo2000]

Mancubus,

What did you get instead of 727?

I need to get this "Fifth Element" Interbit so the tests can be real.

Any other DVD's good for testing besides Lion King and LOTR 2? I have about 260...

[jslepicka]

Don't forget that the 985 doesn't have the RS-232 port which is needed to control the changer. So if you plan on doing so, you'll need the 777ES.

[galileo2000]

James,

I am not gonna use RS-232 at all (unless there is a free app which I like). I believe I have much better solution for controlling this thing same way I now control my F727 - HTPC / USB-UIRT / Girder. I just select one of my 260 DVD's by name in Girder, click the button and it plays.

[zoro]

I apologize, i mistook for 685, 985 is around $350

[galileo2000]

zoro,

no problem, I didn't believe it anyway - too good to be true :)

[zoro]

how was cx785?

[galileo2000]

Some people swear by 785 and despise 985. There is a thread on this.
It has "flip disk" feature. Well, I have one or two two-sided disks so I don't really care.

[Mancubus]

'Mancubus,

What did you get instead of 727?'


I'm currently using a Panasonic dvdf-85 5 disc changer as a stop gap solution. I am very pleased with the picture and features. I am waiting to see what's new this year before I decide which unit to purchase. Currently, the Kenwood 5900 is the best you can get. I'm hoping that Pioneer FINALLY updates the f727.

http://www.panasonic.ca/English/audiovideo/dvd/dvdf85.asp

[zoro]

785, 300 disc, no sacd, japan built, flip disc????

[Kirby Baker]

This is the response I got from CDW:

We are an authorized Sony dealer but Sony has tight restrictions on their products. If you do need to return this, please attempt within 30 days of date of purchase. We still would need to have it approved by Sony first before we issue an RMA (return authorization number). Thanks

That was in reference to my questions specifcally about this DVD changer.

[Daniel Swartz]

I've scanned a copy of the warranty card from the 777ES here. Sorry for it being upside down but Acrobat can flip it for you with 2 clicks...

From my perspective, the only requirements for full warranty coverage (5 years parts and labor) based on this document are:

1) A proof of purchase indicating that the unit is within the warranty period

and

2) An unaltered and present, factory-applied serial number.

What does everyone think?

Sony 777ES Warranty (http://www.danielswartz.com/avs/777ES_Warranty.PDF)

[Kirby Baker]

I'd tend to agree as well.

[galileo2000]

So DVP-CX777ES will it be.

I ordered mine.

[galileo2000]

OK, if anybody is interested in this solution, as a little contribution to this forum I will post my Girder GML file here once I get it done. Of course you will need to enter your DVD titles into the file.

The changer will be controlled by USB-UIRT / Girder combo through HTPC.
Girder version I use is 3.2.9 (last free version, now it is $20).
USB-UIRT can be ordered from a very decent fellow named Jon Rhees from www.usbuirt.com for about $60. I use my wireless keyboard/mouse combo ACK-580 as my universal remote to control all my A/V equipment (Denon 3801 receiver, Pioneer DV-F727, Sony 61HS10 Rear projector TV, Sony 300 CD changer).

[DaveFi]

Someone be a guinea pig for the 985 before I buy one. I'm more concerned about PQ than anything else.

[galileo2000]

DaveFi,

Is this an offer?

[DaveFi]

As long as you're paying.

My.sony has the cheapest price now. At $340 shipped it doesn't seem like a huge risk.

It's too bad there aren't many choices in that price range. I'd probably shell out for the 777 if the PQ is that much better than the 985.

[jslepicka]

I've never seen the 985, but the PQ difference between the two would probably not be that great, and almost certainly not noticable unless you compared side by side.

If you don't want to spend the money for the 777, you might as well just get the 985 and not worry about what little bit of PQ you might be missing.

[galileo2000]

To me the selling points were:

- 5 years warranty parts/labor;
- "possible" Faroudja stuff inside (well, I "almost" went for Holo3DGraph PCI card which alone costs (used/refurb) over $400;
- This magic feeling I have every time I go for the cheaper solution and end up buying both.

So I settled for 777.

[Kirby Baker]

Another reason I am going for the 777 is purely cosmetic! I need a Silver mega changer to match my components, and it does that job very nicely! :D Figure it will at least be a step up in audio/video compared to my current mega changer, Kenwood 5050.

[DaveFi]

If the Faroudja stuff is in the 777, most likely it's in the 985 as well, correct?

I currently have a $50 Sharp DV-S2 with DCDi. While it has some issues, I'm quite impressed by the PQ. I'd like the 985 to be at least as good.

[zoro]

I think video specs r a bit different 12bit/154 vs 12bit /216?

[bowbie89]

Originally posted by DaveFi
If the Faroudja stuff is in the 777, most likely it's in the 985 as well, correct? Not necessarily. It is definitley something I would try to confirm before deciding.

[galileo2000]

Kirby,

I really like it's silver face. And blue display.

I've got a problem though.

My Denon 3801 is black. All my 3 HTPC's are silver. Any silver receivers on the market which are as good as my Denon?

Viva the madness!! :))

[Kirby Baker]

Cant help you on a silver receiver, mainly because I do the separates thing. But my B&K ref. 50 is black too, but I have been thinking of buying a silver face plate for it. My rack is a custom made Salamander Synger unit, with 2 stacks of equipment, one stack is all black, the other is all silver :)

[galileo2000]

Kirby,

Why don't you post some pictures in the Gallery?

[Kirby Baker]

Still assembling :) Its taken a bit longer to fabricate the cabinet than I anticipated.. But I will get around to it.

[jaylard]

Kirby,This is the response I got from CDWVery interesting. I emailed CDW twice, and got two different replies (the first: we have to check with Sony on any returns; the second: no returns on this unit). The reply that you received is more detailed, and is consistent with the first reply I received. As has been mentioned, CDW is a reputable dealer, so I believe that you can expect a good-faith effort on their part.

Daniel, thanks for posting the copy of your warranty card. That confirms what we thought we knew, settling any questions.

[zoro]

no returns but sony will honour warranty..

[curtisG]

Originally posted by galileo2000
Kirby,

I really like it's silver face. And blue display.

I've got a problem though.

My Denon 3801 is black. All my 3 HTPC's are silver. Any silver receivers on the market which are as good as my Denon?

Viva the madness!! :))

My Lexicon MC-12 is silver, but then again it's not a receiver. I have the Lexicon LX-7 to match it though :-)

--curtis

[emillika]

The Denon 3803 is available in silver.

[galileo2000]

Thanks guys.

[DaveFi]

Someone mentioned a Pronto navigator called "nude list"?

Since I'm planning to get the 985, could someone explain which Pronto models (preferably the cheapest) this navigator works on? There is a cheap TSU500 which can be found for <$100 refurb.

[galileo2000]

DaveFi,

You must be on the wrong forum. Nude lists are plentiful on the net, but not right here.

[bnlitin]

I bought the Sony 985 400-cd changer about 3 weeks ago (to replace my broken Panasonic RP-91k). It hooked up to Panasonic 42" Plasma via component outputs.

Pluses:
400 DVDs in one box
Plays SACDs , Video CDs, CDs, and DVD-/+R
Video Quality is as good as Panasonic RP-91 (really)
Audio Quality (don't know - only using digital SPDIF out)

Minuses:
Very slow to change disks
The "FILER" interface is slow, cumbersome and useless
Menu navigation is slow within a DVD
Remote is ok but I am using MX500 to control the changer

Major bug when loading disks - will erase your text if you reload!
If you add new disks- only load the new ones and press STOP immediately or your precious notes will be erased.

I looked at the 777ES at Good Guys and it look identical except for the silver box and the higher frequency DACs. I don't think 108 MHz vs 216 MHz video DACs would make much of a difference.

Overall, it's a good changer if you can live with the slow start-up time and disk change time. I'm keeping mine and may get another one when I run out of space.

[galileo2000]

bnlitin,

Thanks for the review.

How good was the picture on RP-91? I am not familiar with the player, I can only presume it was quite good.

Picture quality is the most important feature for me.

Interestingly enough, Good Guys don't have 777 online.

[bnlitin]

galileo2000, the Panasonic RP-91K has a very high quality progressive video, but not the best de-interlacer. The Sony 985 is as good or better video quality wise. I haven't noticed any de-interlacing issues with the Sony yet.

[Don Black]

Anyone think stacking multiple 777ES units would be a problem?

Also, what does the big black hump on the back of the unit do?

Thanks.

[Omen]

Originally posted by DaveFi
Someone mentioned a Pronto navigator called "nude list"?

Since I'm planning to get the 985, could someone explain which Pronto models (preferably the cheapest) this navigator works on? There is a cheap TSU500 which can be found for <$100 refurb.

DaveFi,

The program is called SuperNudeList. It works with the "classic" Prontos - the 1000, 2000, and 6000 (and also the Marantz ones). The new 3000 and 7000 series Prontos have different configuration files, so SNL doesn't work directly with them. Also, SNL also doesn't work with the ProntoNeo (TSU500)

SNL has an interface that allows you to build/maintain a list of CD's (or DVD) on your computer, then generate the configuration files necessary to bring the lists into your Pronto. I currently use this method with my Sony CDP-M333ES 400-CD changer to make it easy to select my music from the Pronto's screen. I have my music categorized by genre (Jazz, Classical, etc.), then alphabetically by artist within the genre, then by CD name. SNL is a little difficult to understand, but well worth the effort.

For more info on SNL look over in remotecentral.com.

[DaveFi]

I just read on Remote Central that the Harmony 7xx remotes now support DVD changer indexing (actual names like Pronto), so I'd definitely be into those as well.

I've seen the 745 pretty cheap. I'll have to decide. I know nothing about either the Pronto or the Harmony remotes so any opinions would be helpfull.

I just ordered my 985 from 4cost.com, which seems reputable (looked them up on the BBB' website- big retail operation with no outstanding complaints) for $335 shipped. I suspect it's backordered tho. I'll find out soon enough.

[mcascio]

Originally posted by Don Black
Mario,

Any ETA on the stand alone DVD Lobby for the 777ES? Just a ballpark like days, weeks or months woud be great. Thanks.

OK - I know alot of you have been anxious to get your hands on controling the Sony CX777ES changer ala DVDLobby.

Well - it's now available along with some getting started instructions:
http://www.cinemaronline.com/mlserver.cx777es.html

You'll want to make sure you have a NULL MODEM CABLE. Not just any RS232 cable will do.

Please report any bugs/problems.

It takes about 20 seconds to change from one movie to another from within DVDLobby. So not too bad. Plus you can bypass the trailers and menu setup which gets you right into the movie. Some movies don't allow this but it seemed to work for most in my testing.

And now for a good chuckle, how 'bout a side-by-side comparison of DVDLobby's user interface vs Sony's stock interface. :)

http://www.cinemaronline.com/avsforum/sonysidebyside.jpg

EDIT: Don't forget, the PocketPC version of DVDLobby will also control your Sony CX777ES plus show you cover art. Which works great if you want to add an S-Video Modulator and broadcast movies on demand to all your TV's in the house - then use the PPC to control the changer located elsewhere.

[galileo2000]

So Mario...what is my total for all those goodies?

[mcascio]

Hi galileo2000,

Actually all three of those screenshots above come with DVDLobby.

There is a combo deal on http://www.cinemaronline.com DVDLobby page for both MainLobby & DVDLobby.

DVDLobby PocketPC doesn't require MainLobby - so if you're on a budget, that may be the way to go.

[Don Black]

Mario,

Thanks for the update but I was referring to the bi-directional 777ES specific program you guys are writing. Do you have a timeframe update on that one by any chance?

Also, am I correct in assuming that the current version of DVDLobby only supports 1 777ES changer and not multiple ones?

Thanks again.

[mcascio]

Hi Don,

It's hard to put any type of accurate time frame on the 777ES control application at this point. We're still in the early phases.

It's probably a couple months out though.

The current driver supports 1 changer. We'll probably have an update for multiple changers sometime this week.

[zoro]

I got 985 sony changer, it is pretty good, but too deep, so, have to go! any one interested?

[digitaltrader]

What features does actually having the serial port on the 777es alow one to do in DVDlobby that they wouldnt be able to do using slinke or USBIRT? I currently have a 985 and am happy with the picture quality but want to integrate something like DVDlobby into my system. Has some already come up with the backend to control the 985 or will this take a little bit of fiddling on my part. I like the idea of having the 777es already setup for dvdlobby so I dont have to mess with the programming part. Is it worth the extra money to upgrade to the 777es or can is it possible to set my 985 up with little effort? Thanks.

[galileo2000]

digitaltrader,

I don't use DVDLobby, but I have full control over my Pioneer DV-F727 using
USB-UIRT. It did take me a while to set it up, since I bothered to enter all 300 entries into my Girder file. Right now I just click on the movie title and it plays.

If you like 985 PQ, you will love 777 PQ

I think you should be able to use DVDLobby with USB-UIRT and 985 though.

[mcascio]

Hi digitaltrader,

I think the benefits of using the CX777ES would be:
> Faster disc change between selections (~20 secs vs ~40 secs)
> Easier integration
> 100% reliable
> Ques right into movie
> Doesn't require USBUIRT/Girder or Slinke
> Futureproofed for: bidirectional feedback
> Futureproofed for: Autopopulate movie database

If you decide to use the 985, I've already done most of the work as far as files needed for using the USBUIRT or the Slinke.

As far as ease of integrating, I would say from easiest to most difficult would be:
1) Sony CX777ES / Serial
2) Slinke
3) USB-UIRT/Girder

If you can spring for it, I'd recommend making the jump to the CX777ES.

BTW, I heard ABT Electronics will price match other vendors which I think would include online vendors or CDW. They are authorized Sony dealers which may put some of you at ease. Wish I would have known that after plunking down $800 for mine.

[zoro]

i have 985, layer change is kinda noticeable, not that bad..picture is excellently detailed with vivid colors..recomended

[galileo2000]

ABT will NOT price match CDW.

Just talked to them.

[mcascio]

Thanks galileo2000,

Did they mention who they would price match?
I know someone mentioned to me that they would - I can try and find out which company they were willing to do it for.

It's also possible you may get a different response depending upon the sales person you talk to as well.

[galileo2000]

Sure.

If you can name that salesperson who will do pricematch, I'll be ethernally grateful.

I might even buy DVDlobby :)

[Kirby Baker]

I read their pricematch policy, and I dont think it will help in this case. Even if they did pricematch CDW in general, their policy is only to pricematch items in stock at the competitor. CDW is 2+weeks on shipping, i.e. not in stock.

Also, does anyone think that maybe the 2+ weeks at CDW price represents an upcoming price drop on the unit itself? That would put it nicely at Feb. 1, or close. Makes me wonder if I should hold off a few weeks to see what prices are elsewhere, or just buy it now.

Mario, thanks for posting a pic of the UI on the Sony. UGLY! I was looking at DVD lobby stuff this weekend again, but didnt see this listed, are the screens setup for 16:9 displays? The screen shots all seemed to be 1024x768 pics.

[mcascio]

galileo2000,
I'll put the feelers out and see what I can find.


Kirby,
The TV/Remote version is totally designed around 16:9 screens. The other mouse/touchscreen version will auto center and there are supplied 16:9 backgrounds. Many users use the left and right areas to place their own buttons using MainLobby.

I've seen it running on a friend's 16:9 50" Plasma and it was very sleek looking. It's kind of like the difference when you watch a 3D animated movie such as Toy Story compared to your traditional film movie. The colors really pop out.

[zoro]

Where can I buy 555ES at good price,777es , too damn big man!

[mcascio]

Forgot to mention, according to my original source, first time customers also get an instant $50 rebate on any major equipment or appliance purchase (ask about the new customer program).

BTW, I'm in no way associated with ABT aside from the fact that they are only about an hour from my home, although I've never been there.

Merely passing on information that I've received.

[mdownard]

Noticed several people talking about CDW's price and availability.

I ordered two of the 777ES's from them to replace my existing 875P's, which I 've been using with DVDLobby. I've been happy as can be, but am running out of changer space, and the new DVDLobby features for the 777ES sound great.

Anyway, I placed my order on December 26th. My rep says that it will ship out this coming Monday (January 26). So it took me about a month. Not a huge deal for me, but thought others might like to know.


Mike

[galileo2000]

Mario,

Nobody thought you were involved w/ABt :)

Mike,

Thanks for the update.

[bowbie89]

Originally posted by mcascio
I think the benefits of using the CX777ES would be:
> Faster disc change between selections (~20 secs vs ~40 secs)
> Easier integration
> 100% reliable
> Ques right into movie
> Doesn't require USBUIRT/Girder or Slinke
> Futureproofed for: bidirectional feedback
> Futureproofed for: Autopopulate movie database
Mario - I can see the benefits of going with the 777ES. A question that I need answered though is this: When and if I get the 777ES, I plan on going the "DVDLobby PPC" route. Now I agree with you that burning the music to my hard drive is a better way to go instead of using the changer. However, if I wanted to go with "MusicLobby PPC" to control the 777ES for my SACD collection and regular CD's, will I be able to do that as well through the serial contol and have all the benefits of the software? If not, is that something you will possibly be adding in the future?

Thanks.

[jaylard]

Kirby,Also, does anyone think that maybe the 2+ weeks at CDW price represents an upcoming price drop on the unit itself? That would put it nicely at Feb. 1, or close. Makes me wonder if I should hold off a few weeks to see what prices are elsewhere, or just buy it now.The CDW site has cited a 2/2+ week shipping delay ever since I first checked their site over a month ago, and their price has remained the same. I don't think the CDW price indicates any kind of impending, across-the-board price drop (although, obviously, technology is almost always bound to drop in price if you wait long enough). I assume that the shipping delay simply means that CDW doesn't typically stock this unit, but orders from its supplier based on customer demand. It also suggests the considerable profit margin that many other dealers are making from this unit.

[mcascio]

Mario - I can see the benefits of going with the 777ES. A question that I need answered though is this: When and if I get the 777ES, I plan on going the "DVDLobby PPC" route. Now I agree with you that burning the music to my hard drive is a better way to go instead of using the changer. However, if I wanted to go with "MusicLobby PPC" to control the 777ES for my SACD collection and regular CD's, will I be able to do that as well through the serial contol and have all the benefits of the software? If not, is that something you will possibly be adding in the future?

Hi Rob,

I don't know yet if we'll be expanding MusicLobby to support the CX777ES through the RS232 connection.

You can actually already do this using a combination of the Slinke/Velocity Server/MusicLobby. Actually, we just released an update yesterday that allows MusicLobby to communicate with Sony CD changers via S-Link. Unfortunately, this will not work with their DVD Changers.

We've just got our hands on the changer recently...so we really haven't had enough time to outline all the features we'll be providing. Stay tuned though once we've had more time to play around.

[bowbie89]

Originally posted by mcascio
Hi Rob,

You can actually already do this using a combination of the Slinke/Velocity Server/MusicLobby. Mario - Can you use the USB-UIRT instead of slinke?
You can actually already do this using a combination of the Slinke/Velocity Server/MusicLobby. Actually, we just released an update yesterday that allows MusicLobby to communicate with Sony CD changers via S-Link. Unfortunately, this will not work with their DVD Changers. So the s-link on the back of the 777ES doesn't do you any good with your software?:(

[mcascio]

Mario - Can you use the USB-UIRT instead of slinke?

Rob,

I believe this has been discussed on this forum before, but I'm not sure if it's in this thread or another one.

Basically, Sony's DVD changers have Control-S (S-link) which is only one-way - information can only be sent to the changer. Which is really nothing more than IR sent through a cable directly into the changer.

Their CD Changers have what's called Control AI-II (S-link) - this is bi-directional. Meaning information can be sent back and forth. Therefore, the computer can actually pull information about the discs.

So to answer your question, the USB-UIRt can not be used in this manner to extract CD information from the changer.

So the s-link on the back of the 777ES doesn't do you any good with your software?

It wouldn't make sense to use the Control-S (S-Link) port on the CX777ES when it has an RS232 connection already. While you could certainly use a USBUIRT in conjunction with the Control-S port...it wouldn't send information from the changer to the computer.

Hopefully this makes some sense.

BTW, we've just posted a driver update that supports up to 16 Sony CX777ES changers from DVDLobby. You'll need a com port for each additional changer. That's a total of 6400 movies. If we've got someone here that takes advantage of all 16 changers, I'll buy you a virtual beer. :)

[bowbie89]

Originally posted by mcascio
I don't know yet if we'll be expanding MusicLobby to support the CX777ES through the RS232 connection.
:(
You can actually already do this using a combination of the Slinke/Velocity Server/MusicLobby. I will have to look into the incremental cost to put all of this together. I just have an aversion to spending another $250 on the Slink-e to have the 777ES work with music. Why not save the $250 and get the 985V and then get the slink-e? I need to look into moving the music to a computer and using that and forget about the changer for music? These are all questions I need to work out. I don't know what to do now?:confused: I do know that I need to get the music part of this working as that is what my wife wants to use most in our system.

Thanks for your response and time Mario. It is all starting to make some sense.

[mcascio]

Rob,

Let me clarify one very important item that you might have misunderstood.

Even with the Slinke, the Sony CX777ES will not work with MusicLobby/CDJ because it lacks a Control AI-II port like their CD Changers.

I just want to make this very clear.

As usual, my suggestion is:
> Sony CX777ES for DVD Playback only
> Digital storage of music on computer (this will also have a higher WAF) no waiting for discs to cue up and wondering if she pressed the button hard enough.

You may also want to review a thread that discusses the benefits of hard drive based music over a changer solution:
http://www.caseserve.com/cinemar/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=501

[Steve Goff]

I agree that it makes sense to move music to your media server/hard drive, but there are some compelling reasons why this is not a complete approach, and why it makes sense to pursue RS232 control of mega changers. First, I don't believe that Media Center yet allows the listener to listen to classical music as intended by the composer. That is, most classical albums have separate indexing for parts of continuous movements. So the user has to choose not to have gaps between movements, which is wrong, or to have gaps between indexed parts of the same movement, which is also wrong. There are workarounds, but the are labor intensive. A new version may remedy this, but I have not yet seen it.

Second, many of us are now listening to high-resolution DVD-Audio and SACD, and it does not yet make sense to rip DVD-As and SACDs to the hard drive. Indeed, the 777ES will play multichannel SACDs, but they can't be ripped to the hard drive, since most DVD drives can't even read the information on the disc.

[galileo2000]

First, it is totally off the topic of the thread.

Second, CD changers are still excellent and very economical solution.
300 CD changer is about $120 now.

If you ever woke up one morning and found your hard drives or your RAID dead, you would never move your music or your DVD's to your hard drive.

You cannot play DTS CD's from your hard drive unless you have Revo card which alone costs more than your CD changer.

Neither SACD's nor DVD-A could be ripped to the hard drives as of now.

So Mario do I need slinke to control the Sony CD changer or can it be done any other way?

I am quite happy controlling it with USB-UIRT right now, but if there is a better solution, I'd be interested.

[bowbie89]

Originally posted by mcascio
Rob,

Let me clarify one very important item that you might have misunderstood.

Even with the Slinke, the Sony CX777ES will not work with MusicLobby/CDJ because it lacks a Control AI-II port like their CD Changers.

I just want to make this very clear.

Understood! Thanks.

[bowbie89]

Originally posted by galileo2000
CD changers are still excellent and very economical solution.
300 CD changer is about $120 now.
While I agree with the above comment, unfortunately these changers are not compatible with SACD. But I would still factor that into the equation when I'm thinking of the direction I want to head in (but that is off-topic for this thread).

[galileo2000]

CDW now shows price for DVP-CX777ES $799, shipment 2weeks+.

What's up with that?

Will they honor existing order?

[DaveFi]

My $335 (shipped) 985 is on the way from 4cost. I will report back when it arrives. 4cost has a reputable BBB rating, and if true, this is the best deal going. Only thing is they have a 25% (yes, I know, rip-off) restock.

I hope it fits on my entertainment center- it might not. It will overhang in depth- the feet are a few inches recessed, correct?

[galileo2000]

985.

Hah.

:)

Just kidding.

Am I?

[DaveFi]

I would have sprang for the 777, but just for the RS-232 control it didn't seem worth it. There has yet to be a head to head comparison of the two units, and the functionality appears to be exactly the same.

I will pick up a Harmony 768 to use to navigate and still have money left over from the difference.

[galileo2000]

What is Harmony Dave?
Will be very interested in comparison.
All the best with your unit, hope it will deliver the best picture and sound.

[zoro]

985, has real pleasing picture, kinda like rp-91, with super colors , sound and minimal deinterlacing artifacts.

[DaveFi]

Harmony SST-768 remote http://www.harmonyremote.com/cutsheet_sst-768.htm which has XML support.

They just added a DVD Navigation feature for Jukeboxes which allow you to enter the titles and scroll through them with a wheel.

Nice to hear the 985 looks good. My main conern was it wouldn't look as good as my low-end DCDi player. Now I only hope it fits my shelf.

[galileo2000]

Dave, thanks for the link.Harmony is a hell of the remote.
I use my IR keyboard/mouse combo (ACK580) as my remote.

I have decided to keed my Pioneer DV-F727 at least until I get 777 and then do my PQ comparison and then decide...I've spent countless hours making USB-UIRT / Girder control of Pioneer, and since my tower can accomodate yet another box, it will stay.

As I mentioned, CDW site now shows $799 price on 777.
I've talked to them couple of days ago and their ETA is January 30.
I wonder whether they will honor my order for $559.

[Kirby Baker]

Man that sucks about the price increase. I go away for a few days thinking I had time to order, then this happens! Just my luck.

[galileo2000]

Sorry Kirby. We'll see what happens to my order. My card was not charged, all I have is email from them aknowledging the order.

www.shopper.com stilll shows $559 from CDW, but click on the link brings CDW site with $799.

[jslepicka]

As mentioned earlier, I got my second one from Abt for $599.

If they'll honor that price (I bought a bunch of other stuff too), then it's only an extra $40 -- and no warranty concerns.

I've been using the Escient DVDM-100 lately and I have to tell you that it's really worth it. Sure it's overpriced, but with >400 discs, entering them in manually anywhere is not an option and the built-in interface is certainly not up to the task. Having it automatically switch the video/audio is great too. I'll post a more thorough review in a couple of weeks w/ pictures.

DVDLobby also looks like an exceptional product, and the price is certainly great, but I'm trying to remove complexity from my setup and adding a computer, in my opinion, is a step in the opposite direction.

James

[galileo2000]

And if they do free shipping, it's like $10.

James,

If you are happy with Escient, that's great.

The guy who developed RS-232 control of 777 app asked about Escient.
Below is a quote from him:
"Does anyone have an Escient DVD100M unit? I'd be very interested in obtaining a log of the RS232 traffic between the Escient and the CX777ES. The Escient captures some kind of key information from each DVD which it uses to look it up in their personal database. I found no such command in the RS232 protocol spec so I'm wondering how exactly they are doing this. I suppose it might be possible to generate a unique identifier by getting the frame data from the TOC_DATA_REQ command, but that seems rather inefficient. I'm guessing they found out some more info about the RS232 command spec. "

If we could get it from you, James, it would be great.

[mcascio]

Has anyone found a good online link to the Null Modem cable used by the Sony CX777ES? I've had a bunch of inquiries and would like to let people know.

Thanks.

[mdownard]

Originally posted by mcascio
Has anyone found a good online link to the Null Modem cable used by the Sony CX777ES? I've had a bunch of inquiries and would like to let people know.

It's a proprietary cable? I didn't know that... that kinda sucks since I just ordered two null modem cables from Buy.com. Oh well.


Mike

[jslepicka]

If you are happy with Escient, that's great.
Sorry -- don't mean to ramble on about it :)

Let's see... RS-232 spec... I briefly looked over the spreadsheets the other day. There's a note in the comments that version 1.0 was released to Escient, so I imagine that this is what they're using, more or less.

I believe they use the commands listed on the TOC_DATA_REQ page, even though the author suspects otherwise. They even give examples of specific movies (Black Hawk Down and Harry Potter). TOC data should be unique, no? Could save space for storing/transmitting by using the data's CRC value.

I have a program for sniffing serial communication, but I'll have to put my computer in-between the DVDM-100 and the 777. Wish my laptop had two serial ports...

Mario -- buy.com has them and they're dirt cheap:

http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=10248347&sp=1&loc=101

Mike -- the cables are not proprietary; any null modem cable, such as these, will work fine.

[galileo2000]

James,

I didn't take it as rambling :)

I understand it's not really convenient to put PC in betwee.
Maybe some day you'll incorporate PC into HT. I did. I put three of them into my tower :)

Meanwhile, I am getting ready for 777. Yesterday I taught my TV to switch from RGB to Component and turn on 777 with a push of a single button (through USB-UIRT / Girder).

[Kirby Baker]

Originally posted by jslepicka
As mentioned earlier, I got my second one from Abt for $599.


James, did you call in to get that price? I assume the website showed a different price?

Mario,

You said you put some feelers out there at ABT, did you hear anything?

[jslepicka]

galileo -- sounds like a cool setup. Not to get too far off topic here, but how's the fan noise?

Kirby -- I called in for that price. I've bought stuff from them in the past, including a RPTV, and it seems they always quote a lower price then what's on the site.

[galileo2000]

My apologies to all who see this totally irrelevant to 777 post.

James,

Noise is very tolerable, but I can't call it non-existing. CD player helps a lot to minimize it though :)

So logical question is why 3? Well, #1 is Internet / A/V control / (soon to control DVP-CX777ES) download/test machine. #2 is video editing machine. # 4 is video compile machine. Of course they all are interchangeable. Main reason: because I can and because I want.

If you click on the gallery button, you'll see some pictures of my tower.

[jslepicka]

Wow -- very impressive indeed!

OK -- back to the 777. Sorry, folks :cool:

[DaveFi]

galileo, The SST-768 does indeed look cool. I just ordered a used one, so I'll see if it lives up to its promise.

Like most of us, I have 7+ remotes here, and it's beginning to get ridiculous. I'm hoping this will put an end to most of them.

I'll probably build a HTPC, but if I can just pick up the remote, scroll to a title and click on it, that will be adequate.

[galileo2000]

Dave,

I used to have about 10 remotes. Then, thanks to Denon RC-883, the number was down to 2 (could not replace Pioneer changer remote no matter what - no remote could learn "Disk Change" command).

I've considered Pronto, PocketPC w/WiFi card etc. But I just wanted one piece for everything.

And then I've got USB-UIRT and Girder, and now I have just one - my IR keyboard / mouse combo which does everything.

And yes, I can select the title of the DVD, double-click and bingo!
If you are going to build HTPC, I highly recommend incorporating USB-UIRT there.

[DaveFi]

My 985 arrived today.

Holy cow! This thing is a tank! It's "rear heavy" by the PS, so the front left foot is hoivering about 2mm above the surface- it doesn't even touch. It's so big I have to put it on top of my entertainment center- it won't fit on the shelf. I'll load it up and see how it goes.

On the plus side, it comes with a Bob Dylan SACD sampler.

[zoro]

yup, it is huge! man! very deep too, hardly fits in regular av cabinets

[DaveFi]

Been playing around with it. I think it's going to take a few weeks for me to figure this thing out.

As far as PQ goes I'd say it's VG. About as good as any non-Faroudja player I've seen. My Sharp DV-S2 DCDi has better PQ, but I guess that's to be expected.

I played some ST:TNG discs and there were jaggies. TNG isn't mastered very well, but no jaggies on the Sharp. In some ways the Sony has better PQ, the mpeg decoder is much better than the Sharp, but I did see some ghosting on text.

The loading mechanism is even quieter than the Sharp.

For $335 shipped it seems like a real bargain.

[galileo2000]

Hmmm, still waiting for my 777....

So Dave is PQ better than Sharp or worse than Sharp?

You said: "in some ways"...

Care to explain?

What's your TV BTW?

[DaveFi]

As I stated the Sharp has a sucky Mpeg decoder. It's very soft- the Faroudja deinterlacing more than makes up for it though.

I have a Panasonic DT-M3050w HD production monitor. I can really see the difference. The Sharp is much better at animation, and I'm a big Anime fan. Oh well.

Sony is very tweakable, so I can get more out of it.

[zoro]

BTW!! can U comment Dave? 985 does not have any deinterlacer mode settings? like film, video, auto etc????

[DaveFi]

There are various adjustments, none that I've had a chance to fool around with yet.

BTW- Big cudos to www.4cost.com , a company I never heard of- (took a chance). Not listed on resellerratings.com, but they had a good rating on BBB.org. They apparently have a huge B&M in La, for around 20yrs. They were able to supply it for $30+ cheaper than anyone else- shipped.

I will definitely order from them again.

[zoro]

keep us posted! Dave! reason, i am saying, i had this unit! did not see any?

[Kirby Baker]

Dont mean to get back on topic here, but any more news/pricing info about the 777? I've been too busy to try and get ahold of Abt, and CDW is still at 799. Been tempted to see how bad a scratch/dent from crutchfield would be, never bought that type of unit before, and probably shouldnt with this :)

[sadcaper]

Does this player play DVD-A discs through the 5.1 analog out? I see it plays SACD, but can't find any info on DVD-A. Maybe that means it won't play them. Bummer.

Any idea?

[Omen]

Originally posted by sadcaper
Does this player play DVD-A discs through the 5.1 analog out? I see it plays SACD, but can't find any info on DVD-A. Maybe that means it won't play them. Bummer.

Any idea?

Nope. Sony doesn't support DVD-A.

[DaveFi]

It has two interesting features, one called "BNR" Block Noise Reduction, and something called Digital Video Enhancer.

I really haven't had time to play around with it much. There are so many settings on this thing it's going to take me a while to figure it out.

The audio features are about the best I've seen in a $300 player. The bass mgt works really well for SACD.

[Mancubus]

Does it do automatic scaling of non 16:9 material? I.E. if you are in menu's and you have a 16:9 set, does it automatically set the picture to 4:3 aspect by adding the black bars?

[DaveFi]

Yes. On a 16:9 set you can have 4:3 output either wide or normal.

[zoro]

I was talking about deinterlacing modes?

If u find any? let me know pls?

[RayFischer]

This might be a dopey question, but I'm bravely asking anyway...realizing there is a price difference, any opinions on how the 777 PQ might compare to the Denon 5900?

[galileo2000]

5900 has Faroudja chip. It also has "Contrast Bug". http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/DenonDVD-5900ContrastBug.html

Nobody seems to know what's inside 777, and nobody bothered to post real review except new owners who are obviously biased. And I will be too once I get mine.

Kris from "Secrets" confirmed that 777 passed some Faroudja tests, but not Faroudja flag tests, which indicates that 777 does not have faroudja chip inside.

I will be comparing it to my HTPC's and Pioneer F727 once I get mine.

[DaveFi]

Ran the Faroudja patterns through the 985- it definitely passes some of them, or at least close enough to where I couldn't notice.

It did surprisingly well on the Flag "jaggies" test, exhibiting little to no jaggies.

Did well on the animation still test too, better than my DCDi based Sharp, a little bit of scanline flicker, but the Sharp did much worse.

As far as the Odd/Even test goes, I forget what it's supposed to look like.;)
No flicker on any of them in any case. No flicker on any of the Pendulum tests either.

Could be there's Faroudja in there. Impressive.

[The Executor]

I am extremely embarrassed to ask this but could someone tell me how to directly select a new disc on the 777ES?. I just bought one and even though I can use the "disc skip" button on the remote I cannot find a way to access a particular disc without going to the extremely slow folders interface. I would like to just use my remote while watching a movie punch a disc number and have the player switch to that disc. Is that even possible?. I read the manual but it doesnt mention anything of that sort. All disc changing activities require me to stop the movie and go to another menu to change the disc or use the "disc skip" button wich can be ackward since I already know the number of the disc I want. Any help you experts could provide is appreciated, also my apologies in advance if this question is too stupid but I am pulling my hair out from frustration. Thanks

[Mancubus]

I don't have a 777 but did have a Sony 5 disc changer. On that unit you could either press disk skip to toggle through the discs, or press disc skip and then enter the disc number. Try that and see if it works.

[DaveFi]

Executor:

Display, Enter, Disk # (no 0 first), Enter.

[The Executor]

Thank you for the help guys. DaveFi your method works great for me and I can finally rest a bit, however the reason why I asked was because I am planning on using a Pronto remote in the future to access my movies and I figured I'd need direct disc access to make it work. My question is basically whether your method will still work with the pronto. Are there any discrete codes I could use to acess the disc in a more direct fashion?. In any case thank you very much DaveFI and Mancubus, at the very least I can acess my discs much faster than before, I was about to return the player until I saw your post.

[Mancubus]

You could always set up a Macro on the Pronto for each disc so that the commands are entered with only one button press.

[DaveFi]

I'm trying to get it working with my Harmony remote. It's a little difficult because you need to press different keys depending on what mode you're in.

If you're playing a DVD you need to manually press "STOP" first before the key-sequence I gave works.

[mdownard]

Originally posted by mdownard
Noticed several people talking about CDW's price and availability.

<snip>

Anyway, I placed my order on December 26th. My rep says that it will ship out this coming Monday (January 26). So it took me about a month. Not a huge deal for me, but thought others might like to know.
Mike

Just FWIW... still hasn't shipped.


Mike

[Don Black]

Same here. I wouldn't worry until another week goes by though.

[Kirby Baker]

Well I broke down and got mine from Abt. Should have it tomorrow. Unfortunately, had to pay almost $40 in sales tax, but oh well. Cant wait to see how the picture is compared to my Kenwood 5050 changer.

[digitaltrader]

This unbeleivable CDW is taking this long. Surely they can locate them. They still have them for sale albeit at $799.

[jaylard]

digitaltrader,This unbeleivable CDW is taking this long. Surely they can locate them. They still have them for sale albeit at $799It's probably no coincidence that CDW's price went up and that they are having trouble shipping the unit. More than likely, they got a large pulse of sales of the unit (possibly because of this thread) and are having trouble filling the orders. Either they realized that their price was unusually low, or simple laws of supply-and-demand kicked in and they bumped up their price to the market standard. More than likely, relatively few people are ordering the CX777ES from CDW now that their price matches that of the authorized Sony dealers. I debated publicizing CDW's price here, and I can't say that I don't regret it.

[Kirby Baker]

In the end, I have to say I am glad I went with an authorized dealer, Abt. I gave my local HT shop a chance at it, but the best they could do is list price, less a special 10% discount valid tomorrow only (closed door sale). Didnt have the heart to tell them they were about $80 too high still. My philosophy is give the best price the first time, and they didnt come close, so they didnt get the business. Cant wait to see that big Sony box at my door when I get home :D

[DaveFi]

985 is a good alternative if you don't need the RS-232 and S-Link.

I am impressed how good the PQ is, I don't see how the 777 could be much better. A head-head comparison is needed.

[galileo2000]

I am really tempted to cancel my CDW order. I've never seen anything that bad before. I ordered on 1/14, and someone ordered on 12/26, and we still didn't get our units.

I might go with 985 instead, my USB-UIRT / Girder combo gives me full control and $270 left in my pocket.

What do you think?

[galileo2000]

Originally posted by jaylard
digitaltrader,It's probably no coincidence that CDW's price went up and that they are having trouble shipping the unit. More than likely, they got a large pulse of sales of the unit (possibly because of this thread) and are having trouble filling the orders. Either they realized that their price was unusually low, or simple laws of supply-and-demand kicked in and they bumped up their price to the market standard. More than likely, relatively few people are ordering the CX777ES from CDW now that their price matches that of the authorized Sony dealers. I debated publicizing CDW's price here, and I can't say that I don't regret it.

James,

Don't blame yourself, I've seen CDW price long before I've seen your postings here. Simple search on www.shopper.com would bring it up.

The only issue was warranty.

Apparently Mike Krasny, the guy who started CDW, is no longer involved in customer satisfaction surveys. :D

[DaveFi]

More I watch the 985 the more I'm convinced there's Faroudja in here.

[zoro]

open and confirm, and shock the wrld man!

[galileo2000]

OK, it's been another week.

Did anybody hear anything from the place which calls itself CDW?

[Don Black]

The message I got was basically, "We don't know."

I'm fine waiting though. The price is much better than any other place out there and I'm in no rush.

[zoro]

I have a PRICE QUOTE from them with orig price of $550, Would theywill honor their quote?

[digitaltrader]

still waiting on this player order 2 months ago. ANyone else have any luck getting their order filled from CDW?

[mdownard]

Originally posted by digitaltrader
still waiting on this player order 2 months ago. ANyone else have any luck getting their order filled from CDW?


Nope. 'Bout to roll up onto eBay.

[Don Black]

My sales rep is still clueless.

[galileo2000]

CDW is a bunch of bozos. My sales rep told me to feel free to call and cancel the order.

[galileo2000]

I might end up with "None of the Above" after all.

I tested DaemonScript, free program to add to (free) Daemon Tools.
I just double-click on the the DVD script which is named as, say, "Fifth Element.DaemonScript" and it gets loaded and played with the software DVD player of my choice.

Since hard drive prices continue to fall, at some point they will reach $.10 per GB, which will make hard-drive based 400 DVD jukebox for $100.

I can add space as I go, basically unlimited.

Why do I need those huge boxes (777 and 985) ? My PC provides stunning, almost 3-D like picture in 480P and 1080i. I can tweak basically anything in terms of the output. No need for RS 232
either.

[mdownard]

Originally posted by galileo2000
CDW is a bunch of bozos. My sales rep told me to feel free to call and cancel the order.

I'm in the luxurious position of having two of the 875 changers already in my system, so it's not as big of a rush for me. But the more time that goes by, it's clear that someone at CDW screwed up the pricing, and now rather than lose money when the orders complete they are delaying as much as humanly possible. Profit quota in action!

So I think I'll cancel also if another week or so goes by. Bah.

[galileo2000]

Yeah, I have my beloved Pioneer Dv-F727 which is 90% filled as of now, so no rush for me as well.

But it looks more and more like I will end up with hard drive based DVD Jukebox.

[DaveFi]

Assuming a 2hr movie is 3GB (at best), I don't know where you'll find a 1200GB harddrive for $100 anytime in the near future.

Even compressing them all down to WM9 format (talk about a time consuming process), you still won't do much better.

[galileo2000]

At the moment I have 640 GB available, which takes care of about 150 DVD's.

And I don't have 700 DVD's yet. I have about 270. Pioneer still has 30 empty slots. The only drawback it is 480i.

Like I said it can grow depending on the need.

Of course at the moment 985 is more economical solution, but i can afford to wait.

[Don Black]

I have 300GB available but 1,000+ DVDs. Since anything stored on a HD would also have to be backed up, DVD changers are the only economical alternative for me right now and probably for the next 3-5 years.

[galileo2000]

I am far from suggesting anybody should do what I describe above.
But since CDW screwed up, I have a change of heart.
I still think both 777 and 985 are very decent boxes, and it escapes me completely why would anybody buy single-slot player.

But different people have different needs I guess.

Best.

[mdownard]

In an attempt to help in getting this thread as off-topic as possible, I'll opine too... ;)

Believe me when I say that my first choice is always to go with the flexibility of PC-based storage versus dedicated hardware. But unfortunately, pricing simply has not come down to the point where it makes sense, IMHO, to go with HDD-based solutions for large DVD collections.

You can get the Sony 985 for under $400; for the sake of argument let's call that $1 per DVD. The 777 is about 50% more, so let's say $1.50. So we're looking at a cost of between $800 and $1200.

At around 5GB at least per DVD (I refuse to compress), for a collection of 600 DVDs (just using mine as an example), I would require 3TB of storage. So that's roughly 12 250GB ATA drives. Let's say I get a really good deal on those drives, at $175/each. That's $2100 --- before taking into consideration RAID which you would definitely need for this setup, and the time required to rip as opposed to just popping a disc into the slot.

We'll call the HTPC costs a wash, because anybody reading this far into this boring post undoubtedly already has one. For changers I'd use an HTPC if for no other reason than to run DVDLobby, and obviously for the HDD route it's a given.

So that's why I go with changers. Now back to your regularly scheduled thread programming...



Mike

[galileo2000]

Mike,

You are correct. We are not at the point where it's economical to do HD-based collection.

In fact, I argued the very same things to other people being FOR stand-laone changer...

And it's progressive...
And it "might" have a good deinterlacing chip inside..
And I can eBay it in a few years...
and hard drives tend to fail and take all my DVD's with them....
and it's "NOT" Sony's fault that CDW screwed up...

I'll think about this.

[jaylard]

Folks,

Before CDW takes too much of a drubbing over the lack of availability of the CX777ES, have a look a Crutchfield's site (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-meEtwMgdH3t/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?a=&s=0&cc=01&g=54500&id=detailed_info&i=158DVPX777) and note the availability date: currently, 3/31/2004.

[zoro]

I was wondering, if cDW will honor the $559 quote they sent me, when and if these become available?

[jslepicka]

I was wondering, if cDW will honor the $559 quote they sent me, when and if these become available?
call them and ask.

[zoro]

good idea..thnx

[DigitalGriffin]

Originally posted by galileo2000

And I don't have 700 DVD's yet. I have about 270. Pioneer still has 30 empty slots. The only drawback it is 480i.


"DVDo iScan Ultra"-There's a reason that sucker is still around and it rocks for deinterlacing.

[DaveFi]

4cost.com still has the 985 for $330+ shipped. I got mine in about 2 weeks.
They have a big retail store in Louisianna for 20yrs, with no complaints on the BBB.org website.

I think they have them because they list them as DVPCX985V, which makes it hard to search for.

[Mancubus]

DVDo iScan Ultra"-There's a reason that sucker is still around and it rocks for deinterlacing.

Yup, that's exactly what I used on my 727f (which I am now kicking myself for selling btw).

[Don Black]

Good catch on the Crutchfield vs. CDW contrast James! I'm still holding out for my CDW order.

[BizarroTerl]

CDW has them scheduled to be received on 3/15 (didn't sound real firm).

[jaylard]

Although this thread has grown a bit cold, since there has been some discussion here of the differences between the DVP-CX985V and the DVP-CX777ES, I decided to post a link to a comparison between the two units that I've worked up: http://www.pixelwright.com/av/MegaChangers.asp. Comments, corrections, clarifications welcomed.

[BizarroTerl]

CDW now says 4/1. We'll see.

[Don Black]

James,

Great comparison. I'm still waiting for CDW too...

[mtdking]

Onecall had them for about 4 days last week and now they are out again. I should get mine tomarrow.

[bgarner]

Quick dumb question.

Does the Sony 985 or 777 play CD-R, CD-RW cd's as well? There is no mention anywhere that they will work.

Thanks,

[jaylard]

bgarner,Does the Sony 985 or 777 play CD-R, CD-RW cd's as well? There is no mention anywhere that they will work.Short answer: yes.
Longer answer: both will play CD, CD-R, and CD-RW discs recorded in the following formats: VCD, Super VCD, music CD (redbook), and data CDs containing MP3 tracks.

[galileo2000]

Well..

Did anybody hear back from the place which calls itself CDW?

[zoro]

I saw 4-6 days lately!!

[BizarroTerl]

It's shown 4-6 days for about a week. They haven't shipped mine yet ...

[Don Black]

Where are you guys seeing this 4-6 days estimate? Under order status?

[Mancubus]

I gotta hand it to you guys. You have some serious patience!

[BizarroTerl]

Under usually ships on the product page.

I'm planning on controlling mine with a HTPC. It's taking a very long time to get all the parts together. If it was complete I would have given up and gone elsewhere.

[Don Black]

Hmmm.... I can't seem to find the product page. Nothing comes up when I search for 777 or 777ES. Do you have a link?

My order just says "processing." Is that what everyone's says as well?

Thanks.

[BizarroTerl]

CDW DVP-CX777ES (http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=556553)

Current pricing doesn't look too good. With a corporate discount my cost is quite a bit less. I've seen them jack the price twice since I placed my order.

[JimmytheSaint]

I've got one of these puppies and am looking to get a second.

Is there ANYONE out there that can modify these players to playback region free?

[Don Black]

Not really a great sign when Crutchfield just leaves the expected stock date blank (since their last 4/7 deadline has passed)...

[jslepicka]

In-stock according to the website: http://**************.com/scripts/site/site_product.php3?id=13765

call them up and see what they'll sell it for.

edit: Oops -- looks like the URL got edited. A-b-t-e-l-e-c-t-r-o-n-i-c-s (remove the dashes).

P.S. - I paid $599 in Jan.

[Don Black]

I'll keep my order with CDW as long as Crutchfield is having problems locating inventory. Thanks for the link though!

[pciav]

I can refer you to an authorized dealer who has two in stock. PM me for details.

[luckyflyer]

I received mine from ABT 6 days ago $599 no shipping charges. It had been back orderd for about a month.
Luckyflyer

[zoro]

kool..deal, did they match or is this their price

[luckyflyer]

I don't think this is their advertised priced. I ask the salesman if I could buy it for $599 because I knew that others had gotten it for that he said yes. The salesmans name was Conrad.

[zoro]

Wow!!heck of Ibs for $599

[Dominus]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Don Black
[B]Mario: Two quick questions please.

1) Will the 2-way feedback upgrade be free for DVDLobby 3 owners?

2) If I have 3 777ES changers, where do the three serial cables plug into with native support? Do I need 3 serial ports on my computer (most of course only have 2)?


What we really need is a wireless card in the 777ES and then I can sit back with my laptop and run the entire show with DVDLobby and DVDProfiler.

Wires, wires, wires! When will vendors ever learn?

Of course, I have the Integra DTR-7.4 with NetTune which supposedly runs audio through my wireless network and I can't get it to work.