Nad T-163 Pre-Pro

[sdire]

Has anyone seen a review of this yet? I am trying to decide between Sherwood-Newcastle, NAD, Rotel and Outlaw. Any thoughts would be a lot of help

[plain fan]

sdire, use the search feature at the top of page and do a search for:
"NAD AND T163" or "NAD AND t163"
You will find quite a bit of information on this piece of equipment from comparisons to reviews. I've done the search myself since I've been looking at it as well.

[cburbs]

Sdire,
I think it depends on what you want out of a pre-pro......I have been looking at the same ones

[Jarrod]

I've been looking at all these units for the past couple of months, plust the B&K Ref50. Here are my thoughts on how they are stacking up:

I've had a comprehensive in-store demo of the t-163. It is nice and looks very easy to use but is somewhat lean on features (especially for its price). As with all NAD gear, it's focused on simplicity and giving you the best sound for the money. If your primary concern is sound quality, then give this piece a serious listen.

The Rotel and Newcastle pieces are very similar to each other in terms of features, and are a step up from the t-163 in this dept., IMO. Both will feature the latest bells and whistles like PLIIx, video upconversion, etc. The Rotel has independent crossovers on all channels. The Newcastle features a fantastic zone2 feature set (this was one area where NAD was good too). The Newcastle is probably the better value between the two. Jury is out on sound, but by all accounts they should be very good. My money would be on the Newcastle piece.

I decided against the Outlaw because of reviews I had read that were down on its user interface, and because of cosmetics. To be honest, it's more of the latter. I have to live with this in my decor for the next several years and I just didn't want that cheap-looking (IMO) box staring back at me from the rack. No offense intended to Outlaw owners, sorry.

In the end I went with the B&K Ref 50 which is also in this price range now. I felt it had the best balance of audio performance, features, and flexibility (inputs/outputs, sound tweakability, and the potential for upgradeability on both hardware and software).

It's pretty much a given that all these pieces in this pirce range [will] sound very good. So I decided that this upgrade needed to focus on features and flexibility. That's because at this level I am far more likely to upgrade to my next pre-pro due to a lack of inputs and/or features than because of raw sound quality. Case in point - this upgrade was prompted by a lack of component video switching in my current setup, NOT because I am unhappy with the sound. Based on this analysis, I felt that the reference 50 would have more legs than the other choices, even though it is an older piece to start with.

[plain fan]

Did the Rotel and Newcastle have DP2x? I'm still using 5.1 but eventually I'd like to get at least 6.1 and DP2x looks interesting.

[Jarrod]

Originally posted by plain fan
Did the Rotel and Newcastle have DP2x? I'm still using 5.1 but eventually I'd like to get at least 6.1 and DP2x looks interesting.

Yes, they both advertise this feature. This is one thing that the B&K lacks, but I am sticking with 5.1 due to WAF and/or room limitations, depending on how you look at it. :D

[plain fan]

...but I am sticking with 5.1 due to WAF and/or room limitations, depending on how you look at it.

Or who your talking to? ;)
Right now I've got room limitations but I'd like to move to a larger room.

[Will]

There were rumors the NAD might be upgraded to handle DPL IIx, but nothing official, so take the rumors with a grain of salt.

[plain fan]

I'm waiting to hear an official yes or no from NAD; that is why I haven't purchased one yet. And I've recently read some disheartening things about bass management, so I've got to keep reading.

[plain fan]

Haven't heard anything, but I've chosen to get a separate amp and wait on the pre-amp for now. My Denon AVR3300 will work fine for me since I don't have the space to take advantage of anything over 5.1.

[Dan Driscoll]

Originally posted by Will
Any news on the rumor about a DPL IIx upgrade?

I believe the T163/973 combo is reviewed in the May/June issue of Perfect Vision. Supposedly there is a comment from a NAD rep that DPL-IIx will be in new units by early summer and upgrade will be made available to current owners. I can't vouch for the accuracy of this, I haven't read the article myself.

[efarstad]

As a NAD dealer...I can vouch for the "rumor." The upgrade will become available come June...stay tuned gents! :D

[F355]

i'd suggest the DENON 3805 as a prepro. spend the saved money on better spkrs/better amp/better sub.
its processing is top class, its got denonlink, and most importantly, its got the best implementation of automatic speaker setup and equalisation.

[Will]

As a NAD dealer I can vouch for the "rumor." The upgrade will become available come June

That's nice that you can vouch for it! But since the rumor has been around for so long, I was wondering if NAD might have a website that states the upgrade will be available, and that it will be here next month? Can you give any details about the upgrade, besides saying you "vouch" for it and that it will be here next month? Is the upgrade expected to be user-downloadable?

[efarstad]

Will, yes it is expected to be user-downloadable like the other downloads on their website. I have an email list going, if you'd like to be added to it...I'll be happy to email you and anyone else who would like to be kept in the loop. Just shoot me an email and I'll add you or anyone to the list.

[Will]

Thanks Erik. I'm not sure what's in the email but if it discusses the DPL IIx upgrade, please consider posting what it says here as well!

[hays0023]

I just picked up this combo to replace my older Denon....I love it, but will be more than interested in any upgrades that NAD has to offer...

[gatt767]

It seems that the upgrade will not only be through a software release, but also a hardware change, that current owners will have to pay for.

[posst]

Any idea if NAD will do a firewire connection on the T163?

[Will]

I'm more confused than ever about the DPL IIx upgrade.

Originally posted by efarstad

The upgrade will become available come June.

It is expected to be user-downloadable like the other downloads on their website. I have an email list going...


Originally posed by gatt767

The upgrade will not only be through a software release, but also a hardware change, that current owners will have to pay for.

What's the story on the DPL IIx upgrade for the NAD T-163 pre/pro?

Best,

Will

[Will]

And the same confusion may be found here (http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=197257).

[Woodrow]

Personally, I'm waiting to see how NAD treats current 163 owners regarding PLIIx before I'd even consider getting the 163 myself.

[Alimental]

I got this a while back from the guy in charge of product development, supposedly the guy who would know:

We are testing this now. It is worth noting that PLIIx has no benefit with
5.1 and 6.1 speaker setups, it only matters with 7.1 setups. DPLIIx in 5.1
mode is PLII, and in 6.1 mode is Dolby EX both of which are already
included. There will be a free (in the USA) upgrade available for customers
purchasing T773, T763, and T163. The T753 and T743 are not
upgradable. -Greg

I think the only confusion being made is by the constant speculation by people who are taking wild guesses. According to everything I've heard, consistently, PLIIx is coming, it's harder to implement than you would guess, but it will be free to those who need it, though I'm guessing since it will cost them money, they aren't going to have a big recall and talk everyone into it. Many people won't even need it, but I sure do! I just wish they'd "step on it".

[Will]

Hi Joel,

NAD has been sending emails like what you just posted, for a long long time. It goes back to last year. Even then, NAD was sending hopeful emails (here's (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3013419&highlight=NAD+AND+IIx#post3013419) an example from December) saying that they were looking into a DPL IIx upgrade. Back in September 2003, you seemed hopeful but wary (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2631403&highlight=NAD+AND+IIx#post2631403) about a DPL IIx upgrade for the NAD 773. And rightly so. After all this time, NAD hasn't delivered the DPL IIx upgrade. Someday they will probably, but who knows when?

Where does the June date in the earlier post, come from?

Will

[Alimental]

Wow. It's been that long since I joined up? Time flies. I do believe that part of the issue is that they are rewriting software and adding new software features simultaneously. I just bug them and my dealer every once and awhile to hear what's going on. Maybe I'll ping them again. But, the big thing is, NAD is slow, but they're sure. They're very deliberate in what they do and, unlike many companies, they don't just toss stuff out half-assed. I believe it wasn't until Dec/January that they were able to determine that PLIIx wouldn't simply download and needed a chip change. That, I'm sure, is requiring a lot more energy and time that they'd like to be spending elsewhere on new products. I also believe (speculation alert) that they are co-developing the PLIIx upgrade along side new models so that newer versions will use the same processing and/or software. This way, they don't have to work on one, then the other. The downside? Longer time to make the upgrade. The upside? Faster delivery of new models. I'd like to have it, but it's summer now, so I'm willing to wait a little. Of course, if the Fosgate FAPT+ comes out sooner, I may be tempted to just spend some extra money..........

[Will]

I have no idea what's going on with NADs upgade.

[Alimental]

I was told that the T163 with PLII and the upgrade is shipping this summer. It's technically not summer. I asked my dealer if he heard anything knew (he's probably getting tired of me asking), he said the T163s were on back order at the moment as were all the receivers but he did not know why. It *maybe*means that Version 2 software and/or PLIIx may be in the next shipment. Total speculation though on my part.

[hays0023]

bump.....the end of june is near...any updates?

[Will]

There's more NAD PL IIx news slash speculation here (http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/1/38140.html).

[efarstad]

I talked to my distributor yesterday, and NAD is finishing or has finished updating all their products in the warehouse with the PL IIx upgrade...so software upgrades for existing owners of upgradeable gear will now follow. Date, I'm pushing my distributor for that...so when I know, I'll post it here.

I know it's no "NEW" information, but it is coming...but how about some new tid bit of news? ;-) It's my understanding that NAD is looking to announce/come out with a new Pre/Pro at the end of this year around CES!!! As to where it will fall behind, infront of, or replace the existing T163....let the speculation begin!!!

[Will]

Hi Eric,

I hope you're correct even though I still see no official confirmation from NAD that the DPL IIx upgrade is coming, and even though you vouched (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3780112#post3780112) that the upgrade would be here by last month. But I'm still keeping my fingers crossed!

Will

[efarstad]

Will, I'm just the messenger and would love to believe every date I'm told too...but I know for a fact they did upgrade their existing stock in their warehouses in June...so they at least hit the June date but just not for existing clients! ;-)

[Will]

I have no idea what's going on with NADs upgade.

Originally posted by Woodrow
Personally, I'm waiting to see how NAD treats current 163 owners regarding PLIIx before I'd even consider getting the 163 myself.

I agree.

Originally posted by efarstad
would love to believe every date I'm told

Me too. There are predictions galore for the DPL IIx upgrade for T-163 pre/pro's already in customers hands. Just look at the dates given in this thread! Yet no official word from NAD. Inside information, yeah. And alot of hopeful thinking! But an official word from NAD on the upgrade? Not yet. Stay tuned.

Will

[Alimental]

T163s and T773s are now officially shipping with V2.0 and, I assume, PLIIx according to my dealer. T753s and T763s were shipping a few weeks ago with V2.0 (no PLIIx necessary on those). I have not heard when the upgrade is available to existing owners, but I imagine it should be shortly. As for the dates, as you could recall, I said "summer". It is 3 weeks into summer and they're shipping. Hoping to have my update soon! I imagine they just need to have some extra boards produced and shipped to the US, hopefully along with the first batch of product.

[Alimental]

Yep, they're now shipping with PLIIx. T763s too, I found out.

[Woodrow]

Thanks for the info Joel. Your still going to upgrade to a different pre/pro though aren't you? I can't imagine that the 163 with PLIIx is enough to make you forget about the new Fosgate unit. Especially in a setup like yours, where you could really take advantage of the Fosgate.

[Alimental]

Yeah, Chris, I'm still kicking that around, but it's like the tortoise and the hare seeing which will come out sooner. I like the T163, it largely does everything I *need*, but the FAPT1+ has some things I'd *like* such as the screen and dual component out. Plus, it is an upgrade sonically and quieter. However, I've also seen rumblings that NAD is going to come out with a bunch of different things at CEDIA, so I'd be just happy to get PLIIx up and running.

[Woodrow]

Sounds good Joel. I'm curious myself as to what NAD is up to with new stuff. At least you have a pre/pro though to *wait* with. I'm still stuck using a receiver until I do something. My 973 is getting awfully lonely in the closet.

Thanks again for the NAD info.

[Alimental]

A-HA! You're looking to snap up my lightly used T163! ;)

[hays0023]

Is there any information as to what the upgrade entails? Is it just PLIIx or is there more?

[Woodrow]

Originally posted by Alimental
A-HA! You're looking to snap up my lightly used T163! ;)

Actually, that had occured to me back when you first mentioned that you were looking to replace it. Then I start seeing all the new stuff coming out and...well, you know how that goes. I won't be able to take full advantage of the sonics of say, the AVM-30, but that leaves room for new speakers someday.;)

[gatt767]

Does any one knows, what is the main diff within the software except of the inclusion of DPL2x? NAD said that the interface will be replaced aswell.

Did anyone audition or viewed one of the new models?

[Alimental]

The download for current owners is supposed to be available for download by end of August (still summer). I assume it has to be written somewhat differently for earlier models. I believe they've changed the DSP in the newest units or something. You may have to switch the processor on current models along with the software to get both V2 and PLIIx.

[Will]

Hi Joel,

Thanks for providing an updated date for the upgrade. Yes August is still summer. Hopefully by then or before then, NAD will have the DPL IIx upgrade that you've been waiting for! I still remember you wrote in late summer 2003 (http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2631403&highlight=nad+fosgate#post2631403) that if NAD doesn't come up with a DPL IIx upgrade you might take your business to Fosgate since they seem to be sure about the PLIIx upgrade.

What a difference a year makes!

Will

[Alimental]

I don't know what your point is. Nothing has changed. My point has always been that I want PLIIx. I'm interested in the FAPT1+ based on other features and certainly if NAD takes too much longer, it's just another reason to consider upgrading. However, back then, I hadn't even bought the T163 yet as it wasn't even out. And the FAPT1+ was supposed to be out in late winter originally. So, the big problem is that NOTHING has happened. I'm still waiting on both companies!

[Jam Man flimflam]

Hi Joel, any idea if the T773 will require a new processor, and if so, whether it will be user installable?

[Alimental]

This is what I've been trying to figure out. I think you can download V2.0 without any problems but if you want PLIIx, you'd need a card swap on the processor. Either that or V2.0 needs to be uses *with* the new card. They've never been very clear on this in correspondences, but I'm trying! The card shouldn't be hard to install, but they might make you go through a dealer for that.

[Jam Man flimflam]

Well if there's a card or processor change - also makes me wonder if they'll be charging for it. Hopefully, it won't be an arm and a leg.

[gatt767]

From the last mails received from NAD, current NAD owners will have to pay a very small charge for the DPL2x upgrade. They said that it wont be available for the T762, but if its a card replacement should we try the same?

[Will]

Hi Gatt,

Thanks for the update! Regarding the charges to current NAD owners, how do the last mails from NAD differ from the mail posted here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3812881#post3812881)? Also, feel free if you want to post the last mails from NAD.

From "the guy in charge of product development" referenced above

There will be a free (in the USA) upgrade available for customers purchasing T773, T763, and T163.

Will

[ripclawsa]

Slightly off-topic, but dealing with upgrades for the NAD T163, will we ever see FireWire on this beauty? This seems to be the only thing missing from this pre-pro.

[gatt767]

And here is the mail sent by NAD:

Thank you for your recent comments in our NAD Guest Book via the
NADelectronics.com web-site.

We are currently investigating the possibility of upgrading the
T163/T763/T773 to support DPLIIx in the future. PLIIx code is waiting Dolby
approval for the Cirrus DSP. There are two parts to the upgrade. The first
part is upgrading the main control software which can be done via the RS232
port. The new software adds several new features and updates to the user
interface. To get PLIIx, you then need to replace an IC chip on the DSP
board which should be done by a service center.
As the update is not a repair or a fix for a flaw, it will not be covered
under warranty. However, we are not anticipating it to be a very large cost.


We have not definite dates, and the T753 is not eligible for the update.

Best regards,

Karen Pritchard


(I Think this was sent about 3 to 4 months ago )

[Alimental]

That e-mail is older than mine!!! PLIIx is indeed shipping and available at dealers right now, but unless I want to lose money by trading in for a new one, I'll have to wait for the upgrade "kit". But I guess I'll have to try to get a picture of one or Will won't believe it ;)

[gatt767]

Sure its old, what I wanted to point out is that the upgrade is not free of charge!

Would like to see what will the improvements be, on version 2.0 software, it seems that the interface will be replaced too

[Woodrow]

You know Will, like it or not, you will have to hit a thousand posts one of these days.:D

[Woodrow]

997 posts...down to 993 in two hours. Hmmm, maybe I'm wrong, you just may stay below 1000 after all.:D

[Will]

Also I'm curious if the T163 is named differently if/when it supports PL IIx to indicate that it has different capabilities, or if it's still named T163. Sorry if my posts confound anyone. :)

[Jam Man flimflam]

Maybe they'll name it Bob or T163IIx. :)

[Alimental]

Okay, here's an interesting thing I found out. If it says "V2.0" on the box, it has PLIIx. Apparently the front panels and boxes haven't been changed yet, but will be changed in the next couple of months to reflect the internal processing. This is relevant to the T763/T773/T163. I get the impression that the PLIIx was pushed forward into the units rather than wait for the new front panels and boxes to be finished or something like that. So, that should be good news for people who want PLIIx right away (and aren't waiting for the retrofit boards for the original models). So, until the next production run or so, they won't say it, but it will have it. PLIIx is a pretty invisible thing, so I don't know if you could tell whether it was active or not from the operation of the unit. I have no idea if there's a separate "PLIIx" mode or whether it is automatic if you have a 7.1 system and are using PLII. The operation could be indistinguishable from PLII models. This I don't know. I'll let you know if I get a board for mine sometime this month.

[prosurfer]

Latest update (yesterday) from NAD:

"Our technical department is currently working on a Dolby ProLogic IIx upgrade for the T763, T773 & T163 units. It will involve the installation of a chip, and that will need to be done at an authorized NAD service center. We are hoping to have the ability to upgrade these units by October 2004. Please feel free to contact me again then to see when this will be possible.

Best regards,

Bob Moran"

[Will]

Thanks Prosurfer!

The T163 has been out almost a year. With the many dates given for the DPL IIx upgrade for existing customers, it's hard to know when to expect it. Only time will tell.

[Shane Martin]

Atleast they are offering it. Kudos to them.

[Alimental]

Will, do you even HAVE a T163?!? I've been led to believe that you don't, in which case, why do you care?!? Current product T163/T773/T763 have PLIIx. You seem to have been making the argument that you can't buy a production line PLIIx model until after people who own previous ones without PLIIx get their upgrades. I mean, thanks for the "solidarity" bro, but it's pretty misguided.

[Will]

Joel,

Sorry if I confused anybody here. I don't have a T163. But when I ask my local NAD dealer if the T163 can or will soon support PL IIx, my dealer says no it doesn't and as far as he knows it won't. When I go to NAD's website and look up the T163, I notice it does not say the T163 does or will in the near future have DPL IIx. But maybe it does exist now. Yet when I asked in this thread if anybody has seen a NAD T163 with PL IIx with their own eyes, so far nobody has written they've seen it (with their own eyes) or heard it (with their own ears).

I hope it does exist.

I'd just like somebody to say they've seen it or used it, and secondarily I'm interested in how NAD will treat their customers who bought the T163 pre/pro months ago. Thanks for understanding.


Will

[Alimental]

I have seen one, they exist. It does not say "PLIIx" as the PLIIx processor was an add-on. Apparently product was ready to ship, but they held it off so that the PLIIx chip and V2.0 software could be installed. This makes for *some* confusion because they're using the old front panel and box, the only way you'd know it has PLIIx is that there's a V2.0 sticker on the box and a V2.0 sticker on the back of the unit. It's kind of a "hack" in a way, since you're buying an "upgraded in-house" model rather than a unit that is clearly labeled, but I've been told that the cabinets and boxes will catch up with the the proper labeling in the next batch or two. It would be easy for a dealer, let alone a consumer to not understand that "V2.0" also means "PLIIx", so if you're dealer says a V2.0 doesn't have PLIIx, he is mistaken.

[Will]

The only way you'd know it has PLIIx is that there's a V2.0 sticker.

It would be easy for a dealer, let alone a consumer to not understand that "V2.0" also means "PLIIx"

Thanks for the info. That may explain why the dealer I talked to didn't know it has PL IIx although he did know about the sticker, there.

He would not turn it on for me.

When the pre/pro is turned on is there any way to tell it has PL IIx? As you know, other than the "V2.0" sticker, there's no outward indication on the unit and nothing outward that says it has DPL IIx.

Will

[gatt767]

not too much nad support within this forum!!!!!! better look some where else

[Leo the 3rd]

Well it's now listed on their site. I've emailed them about getting the upgrade (since it's not a download) and also checking with my local retailer. I know he's sold a V 2.0, but I haven't heard the model - been busy recently. I'll post what I find out if no one else finds out sooner.

[hays0023]

Please post if you hear back from NAD. I have tried to e-mail them on three different occasions now, and no-one responds...It is a good thing that I love my T-163 as much as I do :-)

[hays0023]

Please post if you hear back from NAD. I have tried to e-mail them on three different occasions now, and no-one responds...It is a good thing that I love my T-163 as much as I do :-)

[Leo the 3rd]

Will,

The site now shows the NAD T163 being updated with the following:
Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital EX, Digital ProLogic IIx, ProLogic IIx, DTS, DTS ES, DTS NEO:6, Matrix 7.1, EARS, Enhanced Stereo Surround Modes

No mention of V2.0 at all, just that they now support the audio format.

[Will]

Are they going to update the information on http://www.nadelectronics.com/ht_amplifiers/T163_framset.htm?

[Leo the 3rd]

It's on that frameset, just refresh to see if you have an old page in cache.

[Alimentall]

For the enthusiast that seeks the highest levels of performance and flexibility, NAD has created the T 163 AV Tuner Preamp. When matched with an NAD multi-channel power amp, the T 163 clearly achieves NAD’s 10/10 Rule: adding 10% more performance would increase the price by a factor of 10! Whether your primary interest is Hollywood movies, music videos, or just listening to music, the T 163 delivers on the NAD promise of creating an intense and involving home entertainment experience at a price that competes with “ordinary” components from the massmarket brands.

Its feature list includes:
Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital EX, Digital ProLogic IIx, ProLogic IIx, DTS, DTS ES, DTS NEO:6, Matrix 7.1, EARS, Enhanced Stereo Surround Modes HDCD Decoding, Stereo Bypass

[Leo the 3rd]

Just got an email from NAD support:

Thank you for your recent request via the NAD Electronics web-site.


Unfortunately, the Pro Logic IIX upgrade for your T163 won't be available until early in the new year._ Please contact me in December for a further update.

So what does this mean? Not sure if it means, there will be an actual update, or you have to take it into the local dealer for handling.

[Alimentall]

Will, no offense, but it's not like PLIIx is unique to NAD. It works precisely as it works on any other PLIIx device.

[Will]

Hi Joel,

No offense taken. Actually there's a recent question in another thread over here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4525044#post4525044) about the differences between the NAD pre/pro and Sherwood pre/pro and their chip set, in case anyone is interested to that level of detail.

Best,

Will

[ripclawsa]

Hi

I've got a NAD T763 with ver 2.02 software, as well as a NAD T533 DVD player. I've heard that the version 2 software disables HDCD decoding on the receiver (T763 and T773). Is this true? I've tried to play an HDCD, expecting the NAD T763 to light up the HDCD indicator on the front panel, but no luck. The CD plays fine though. Can anyone confirm this is the case with HDCD being disabled? If not, how can I get this to work?

[mikek747]

HDCD has been dropped from the T163 with the new upgrade to Ver 2.0. They decided that adding Pro Logic IIx along with the enhanced set up features in the onscreen setup was more important than HDCD. The Ver 2.0 units also use a new DSP chip which allows the IIx functionality.

Mike K

[alantkh]

hi guys,

I have a short question, do you know why the T163 applies a low pass filter (corner set by the crossover sertting) on the LFE channel b4 sending it to the sub? Shouldn't all the LFE channel go straight to the sub irrespective of the crossover setting? I thought the crossover setting is to decide what low frequency component gets REDIRECTED from the mains...

Is this a bug?

[hays0023]

has anyone heard of the upgrade for this yet? I have e-mailed NAD three times no with NO LUCK! It almost makes me want to move on to a new company...

[alantkh]

Hey,

does anyone have my problem? The NAD T163 low pass filters the LFE channel! why? it basically THROWS away any signal in the LFE that is greater than the crossover freq.

If I had known the NAD does such a stupid thing, I will not pay a single cent for it.

[Alimentall]

Explain to me why this would be "stupid". What do you think an LFE is?

[alantkh]

my basic understanding of the LFE is that it is used to record low freq stuff, below 120 hertz if I am not wrong. It is given like 10db extra headroom so you can have more bass in the soundtrack.

Anyway I thought the crossover is just meant to set a freq to REDIRECT low freq signals (in the main channels) to your sub in case your mains cannot reproduce them. The crossover is NOT meant to REMOVE anything from the LFE channel. Or am I wrong?

Please tell me why it makes sense to throw away components of the LFE that is higher than the crossover freq.

[Alimentall]

Because frequencies above that will interfere with your other speakers and make them sound worse. And make your subwoofer more localizable. The NAD is doing its job exactly as it needs to do. And I don't think it's removing anything.

[alantkh]

??

but how about the information encoded in the LFE that is above the crossover?

Lets say if I have full range speakers that go low and a sub that goes EVEN lower. So I want to set the crossover at 40 hertz and let the sub handle the sub 40 hertz signals. The PROBLEM with NAD is that signals in the LFE that is above 40 hertz gets ATTENUATED and lost. It NEVER gets redirected anywhere. So if the movie is encoded such that the LFE has stong bass content from 40-80 hertz... you don't get to hear ANYTHING.

?? how can that be correct? basically if there is a BOOM in the LFE at 80 hertz, you probably hear nothing....

[alantkh]

go and put in AVIA or DVE and do a LFE channel sweep with the crossover set at 40 hertz and 200 hertz. Then tell me that the STUPID NAD is not removing anything.

Anyway, I have read up more on this. It seems that the removal of the LFE signal above the crossover is not limited to NAD. It is due to the fact that you cannot add in a low passed main channel with a LFE channel that is NOT low passed and that wll have phase issues. This I can understand.

To prevent such phase issues, the main channels and the LFE are ADDED together than low passed. This of course will lead to the loss of ANY SIGNAL in the LFE that is above the crossover setting.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_9_3/feature-article-multiple-crossovers-9-2002.html

[Alimentall]

And this is a problem......why? It's called "LFE", not "MFE". This stuff is supposed to be removed unless you want to run your crossovers at 200Hz, which you can. The information being removed is redundant. If there's something here that's "stupid", it certainly isn't the NAD. If you don't understand something, try checking your attitude when asking for assistance. Perhaps you should go back to stereo and save yourself the frustration.

[alantkh]

sigh,

there is nothing in the LFE that is above 120hertz, if I am not wrong.

did you read the article posted in the home theatre website which I linked?

It clearly states that it is a problem if you set the crossover too low. It REMOVES portions of the LFE above the crossover frequency. ie if you set the crossover at 40 hertz, you lose things above 40 hertz from the LFE, and those stuff are NOT REDUNDENT.

perhaps I was too harsh on NAD, but I still stand by my position, it is a problem to me and anyone who want to set crossover at frequencies lower than 80 hertz.

[Alimentall]

The LFE channel is there to do one of two things:

1. Provide visceral effects, VERY low frequencies for rumble only

or

2. Provide a REDUNDANT bass channel (incorporating all or most of the other channels) that gives you flexibility.

In either case, you lose NOTHING that is not redundant. And, if you left it in, it would cause interferance. It is SUPPOSED to be removed. I don't know how to make you understand that. It is NOT a problem, it is how it supposed to work. The fact that it goes up that high is because it needs to do so to work with the crossover properly or you'd get a hole.

And, unless ALL of your speakers can hit <30Hz, every one of them, you do NOT want to set your crossover at 40Hz.

[hays0023]

any thing new on the upgrade??? Still waiting -- no response from NAD

[russno]

I JUST DON'T GET IT!!!!....
.....I'm searching this forum, ok, to find some reviews on JUST HOW THIS THING REALLY SOUNDS!. And, what do I find? I find 90 some-odd posts about this pre/pro having(or not) this feature, and that feature...it does or doesn't have (yawn) DPLIIX (oooooh yaaaaahh...added ambiance...goo goo gaa gaa, yippieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee), it's this color, and the front cover looks like this or that...BBOOOOOOOORING!!!!!
It's a darn cryin sham! I can really really see why people just love AV receivers now! Now it's all so so so so clear to me now...I've just come to the sad realization that poeple truely aren't interested in a little thing called SOUND QUALITY!!!!!
I've owned an Acurus Act 3(a few), Aragon Soundstage, Krell HTS 5.1, Classe SSP25, Sony 777es and EP9es, and some digital receivers over the years. To me, regarding audio equipment, sound quality is, um, gee, let me think here for a second....um, EVERYTHING!!!!!!!
Why in the world isn't anyone talking about the subjective sound quality of this thing?! I mean I don't care if it has NO FEATURES!(Ok,maybe I need one or two). Bottom line, even if it's only in 2 channel, it has to sound good! So, what does the freakin thing sound like, compared to ANYTHING ELSE!
Personally, I don't give a rip if it looks like a tonka toy, if it sounds like gold!
I basicallly wanna know how clear, dynamic, detailed, smooth, refined, and huge it sounds, compared to other higher end world class sounding pre's!
Anyone with some comparative experience care to comment here? Or am I stuck reading about all the politics of software upgrades and other boring shiznit?

[stevehobart]

And I agree with russno - what does it sound like ? Is it good with stereo? Is it better than the equivalent Rotel, Yamaha, Denon, ................???

I want to know if it's worth changing from my NAD T752 (which is only being used as a pre-pro now).

Any comments / info/ answers out ther ?????