View Full Version : Norcent DP-501M is REBADGED LITEON LVD-2001?
absolutic
02-16-04, 12:22 AM
came across this on www.buy.com:
http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=90130599&loc=111&sp=1
look at the picture of this Norcent player! It looks exactly like the discontinued $$$ on ebay Liteon 2001. Or am I dreaming?
http://ak.buy.com/db_assets/large_images/599/90130599.jpg
Omikron
02-16-04, 12:50 AM
Yes, can upscaling to 720p or 1080i:
FEATURES
Support MPEG4
Memory Card Playback
Photo VCD, DVD+R, DVD-R, SVCD, MP3, WMA, AVI, MPG playback
Progressive Scan (Crystal-clear 480p progressive-scan DVD output)
* Can Scale to HDTV resolutions of 1920x10801 or 1280 x 720p
http://www.norcent.net/norcent/products/jiadian/dvd/downloads/DP-501m.pdf
http://www.norcent.net/norcent/products/jiadian/dvd/dvddp501m.htm
chengka
02-16-04, 02:32 PM
Anyone taken the plunge? I don't need DVI, but 1080i might be a nice match to my 1HD.
absolutic
02-16-04, 06:03 PM
Originally posted by chengka
Anyone taken the plunge? I don't need DVI, but 1080i might be a nice match to my 1HD.
Well I have Liteon LVD-2001 and the 1080i is excellent. Assuming Norcent is the exact same Sigma machine, it should shine in that department. But then again, I don't know if it is the same machine, although, sure, looks that way
Hey, I'll take the plunge.
Order place today for a Norcent. Not too much to loose.....
chengka
02-16-04, 11:31 PM
Alright, I'll play. I'm tired of chasing XP30's.
absolutic
02-17-04, 12:02 AM
Originally posted by Sam Scamardo
Hey, I'll take the plunge.
Order place today for a Norcent. Not too much to loose.....
Sam, please post your experience with this player once you get it. Specifically, what is the firmware version, and how does it play different types of files. Thanks.
Originally posted by absolutic
Sam, please post your experience with this player once you get it. Specifically, what is the firmware version, and how does it play different types of files. Thanks.
Will do. Already have firmware versions V229 and V301 burned onto discs and ready to go ;)
absolutic
02-17-04, 12:32 AM
Sam you are talking about V301 beta right? Unless you have a secret connection to Liteon, they told me no final version until the end of this month of maybe even later/
Yes, V301b. Reading over on HTF in the giant 2001 thread, seems like V301b isn't so bad after all.
absolutic
02-17-04, 12:40 AM
I don't like either V229 or V301b, but I don't like for DIVX applications, the DVD operation is fine
What's wrong with V229 and V301b, and why should I stick with the original firmware?
absolutic
02-17-04, 12:55 AM
You should not stick with the original firmware, I am just not entirely happy with the unit. I have 2 friends with the same players and we have problems with it playing divx files. These problems are sometime frustrating. For example, you'd burn a few files on a dvd and watch it and it plays it perfect. You are happy and all and you put the same disk in the player a week later - says "No disk" or just plainly refuses to play it. Or it freezes all the time when playing certain divx files.
DVDs are great though, especially at 1080i - they are sooo good, the blacks are especially black. I just wish it did a better job playing DIVX files, but all divx players these days have problems.
So which firmware should I go with?
absolutic
02-17-04, 01:04 AM
Sam, we are assuming Norcent is the same thing as Liteon 2001 and comes with 0227, but what if it comes with something else? what if it uses their own software, who knows? wait until you get it.
Originally posted by absolutic
Sam, we are assuming Norcent is the same thing as Liteon 2001 and comes with 0227, but what if it comes with something else? what if it uses their own software, who knows? wait until you get it.
Yeah, very good point.
How would I check the software in the Norcent?
sonick182
02-17-04, 02:23 AM
Interesting... keep us posted on this...
chekcin the site, theres no mention of the HD upconversion except for one line in a 2-page PDF info file
Omikron
02-17-04, 04:38 AM
Originally posted by absolutic
You should not stick with the original firmware, I am just not entirely happy with the unit. I have 2 friends with the same players and we have problems with it playing divx files. These problems are sometime frustrating. For example, you'd burn a few files on a dvd and watch it and it plays it perfect. You are happy and all and you put the same disk in the player a week later - says "No disk" or just plainly refuses to play it. Or it freezes all the time when playing certain divx files.
DVDs are great though, especially at 1080i - they are sooo good, the blacks are especially black. I just wish it did a better job playing DIVX files, but all divx players these days have problems.
I threw a couple divX discs at my LiteOn LVD-2001 with v.301b and it played fine. Mind you though, it did freeze a couple times and I had to unplug the machine. Other than that, it worked great. Me and my wife mostly like about its x and y scaling function, which can reveal the subtitles hidden at the bottom - that certainly helps when watching Japanese animes.
Omikron
02-17-04, 12:41 PM
Provantage is selling Norcent DP-501M for $165.46:
http://www.provantage.com/buy-22087047-norcent-technologies-display-home-entertainment-dp-501m-progressive-scan-dvd-player-shopping.htm
Greg_TO
02-17-04, 01:06 PM
Hi,
I've had my Liteon 2001 for a couple of months now and I've had no issues with lockups on Divx or any other kind of file. It plays everything I put in it with the exception of some Xvid movies with a specific VBR audio codec. The performance is great, I upgraded to 3.01 as soon as the beta was available. I'm debating buying a 2002 for my living room. The price was great and I've been the Liteon 2002 as low as $133 Canadian ($101 U.S.)
Omikron:
X & Y scaling with the LiteOn? How do you access this? I know it has a zoom feature (which only zooms in), but have never seen anyone discuss X & Y scaling before.
Regarding the Norcent, if it's like the LiteOn, it probably comes with the 2.23 firmware, which absolutely should be upgraded to either 2.29 or preferably 3.01b for the video quality improvements alone.
Kenni_o
02-17-04, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by Greg_TO
Hi,
I've had my Liteon 2001 for a couple of months now and I've had no issues with lockups on Divx or any other kind of file. It plays everything I put in it with the exception of some Xvid movies with a specific VBR audio codec. The performance is great, I upgraded to 3.01 as soon as the beta was available. I'm debating buying a 2002 for my living room. The price was great and I've been the Liteon 2002 as low as $133 Canadian ($101 U.S.)
Remember the Liteon 2002 does not upconvert like the 2001 does. Many went out and purchased the 2002 thinking it was just an update to the 2001.
Omikron
02-17-04, 02:10 PM
Greg_TO:
Where can you get LiteOn LVD-2002 for $133 right now? I know NCIX.com had a sale for that price, but it only lasted for a couple days.
Greg_TO
02-17-04, 04:41 PM
That was the same sale I saw, I think it was a weekend only sale. Right now it's $156. I'm waiting for $135 again. And in reference to the other post I know the 2002 doesn't do 1080i through component luckily my living tv is still analog.
Omikron
02-17-04, 08:46 PM
Originally posted by CJayB
Omikron:
X & Y scaling with the LiteOn? How do you access this? I know it has a zoom feature (which only zooms in), but have never seen anyone discuss X & Y scaling before.
With 3.01 beta, LiteOn LVD-2001 can do X&Y scaling on VCD (MPEG1) and DivX (MPEG4) by turning on zoom feature, followed by arrow keys. With DVD (MPEG2), it will only zoom-in and shifting in direction. I don't know if this function is available with earlier firmware version.
I can say that PROVANTAGE (where I ordered the Norcent from) is on top of their game.
Place an order last night and an email was sent with FedEx tracking info mid-day today. Arrives on Friday. Price was ~$174 with shipping.
Omikron, thanks. I was hoping for some way to do X-Y scaling with regular DVDs. I have no use for the other formats. Other than DVD-Audio and SACD, X-Y scaling is about the only thing I really wish the LiteOn had.
Originally posted by Omikron
With 3.01 beta, LiteOn LVD-2001 can do X&Y scaling on VCD (MPEG1) and DivX (MPEG4) by turning on zoom feature, followed by arrow keys. With DVD (MPEG2), it will only zoom-in and shifting in direction. I don't know if this function is available with earlier firmware version.
So let me see if I'm understanding you correctly:
With DVD (MPEG2), you can zoom in like you would on a Panny RP-91, cutting off top & bottom of a 4:3 picture leaving sides unaltered?
fishhead65
02-18-04, 08:44 AM
Originally posted by CJayB
Omikron:
X & Y scaling with the LiteOn? How do you access this? I know it has a zoom feature (which only zooms in), but have never seen anyone discuss X & Y scaling before.
Regarding the Norcent, if it's like the LiteOn, it probably comes with the 2.23 firmware, which absolutely should be upgraded to either 2.29 or preferably 3.01b for the video quality improvements alone.
Just ordered the Norcent from Provantage. What are ther video quality improvements with the firmware upgrade?
Also, forgive my newbieness but how would I upgrade it?, Can you point me to the upgrade? Is it just through a USB?
With 2.29 firmware, both the color and sharpness/detail are improved. 3.01b doesn't improve upon those, but it has improved settings for both contrast and brightness. With 2.29 it is harder to fine tune either contrast or brightness because with 2.29 the default settings are way too high. You can turn down both settings in setup, but many people have said that with their systems they could never get the settings right. Moving from 2.23 that came with most of the LiteOn units to a higher firmware also gives you time remaining capability, which I really like.
To upgrade, you need to download the firmware and burn it to a CD-R or CD-RW (I think that DVD-R/RW also works, but not certain). 2.29 is available on the LiteOn website. 3.01b has been removed, but if you do a search you can probably find someone who still has it on a private website to download. I think LiteOn is at www.liteonit.com and go into the support menu for the DVD players.
The first thing you will need to do is see what firmware the Norcent ships with and also will need to make certain the LiteOn firmware will work with the Norcent. Nobody has tried that yet as far as I know. To check for firmware version, go into setup menu and in the Initial setup up menu that comes up it will say what the firmware version is (again, for the LiteOn).
You'll also want to check for the hidden menu where you can turn off macrovision (to allow 1080i upscaling with some discs) and select the region code (0 for no region) by opening the disc tray and inputing 2-9-6-0 on the remote. This may not work with the Norcent. If you don't have any discs that aren't from region 1 (North America) or plan on getting any, you won't need to worry about the region code.
Of course, everything here is putting the cart before the horse until we find out for sure that the Norcent is a clone of the LiteOn.
Here is a link directly to the firmware page: www.liteonit.com/DC/english/csd.htm
Omikron
02-18-04, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by Sam Scamardo
So let me see if I'm understanding you correctly:
With DVD (MPEG2), you can zoom in like you would on a Panny RP-91, cutting off top & bottom of a 4:3 picture leaving sides unaltered?
No, not with DVD (MPEG2). The X- Y- scaling only works for other video formats on LiteOn LVD-2001
Actually, with the LiteOn you can zoom in on a 4:3 image with a DVD and that would cut off the top and bottom of the image but leave the sides unchanged. You just can't do X-Y scaling and you can't zoom out on the image.
You have 3 zoom modes with the LiteOn. The zoom mode 1 is helpfull with non-anamorphic discs that don't display fullscreen with a 16:9 display. Zoom mode 1 makes the non-anamorphic disc fit the screen (with a little overscan, but it's not bad). You can also use zoom mode 1 with a 2.35 film and get rid of the black bars on a 16:9 display (which isn't of use to me, but some people like that sort of thing).
gavin20
02-18-04, 02:00 PM
Originally posted by Omikron
Greg_TO:
Where can you get LiteOn LVD-2002 for $133 right now? I know NCIX.com had a sale for that price, but it only lasted for a couple days.
http://store.yahoo.com/erwincomputers/lilvdvpl.html -some here for $119 well known emerchant too.
Omikron
02-18-04, 02:05 PM
gavin20:
Thanks, but we were looking for Canadian venders who are willing to sell LVD-2002 for $133 CDN (~$100 US).
CJayB:
I don't know how a RP-91 X-Y scaling would look alike. Is it something like the computer monitor adjustment (narrow/wide, tall/short)? On LVD-2001, VCD and DivX movies can do x-y scaling just like that.
fishhead65
02-18-04, 02:31 PM
CJayB,
Thanks.
"You'll also want to check for the hidden menu where you can turn off macrovision (to allow 1080i upscaling with some discs) and select the region code (0 for no region) by opening the disc tray and inputing 2-9-6-0 on the remote. This may not work with the Norcent. If you don't have any discs that aren't from region 1 (North America) or plan on getting any, you won't need to worry about the region code."
What do you mean buy "some discs" with regard to upscaling? Why not all discs?
Also, a review of the LiteOn 2001 here;
http://www.kitsapcomputers.com/lvd06.htm
says "
The EM8500 supports 480p, 576p and 720p, although it is limited to 480p for copy-protected DVDs, unless DVI/HDCP or HDMI/HDCP is used. The EM8500 can output up to resolutions of 1920x1080i or 1280x720p. Other resolutions are also possible since the scaling is programmable. However, the resolution is limited to 720x480i, 720x480p or 720x576i for copy-protected DVDs, unless DVI/HDCP or HDMI/HDCP is used. "
This doesn't have DVI/HDCP or HDMI/HDCP right? So according to this you can't upscale to 1080i. Unless thats what disabling the Macrovision does?
:confused: :confused: :confused:
The RP91 does not have X-Y scaling. It may have some automatic scaling features, but only the Malatas and a couple other Chinese players have X-Y scaling for DVDs, as far as I know. It amazes me that this isn't a feature of every DVD player. The Joe 6-pack crowd who wants to see everthing fullscreen would love it if no one else. Full X-Y scaling (at least on my Malata N996) also allows you to watch anamorphic DVDs on a 4:3 TV with anamorphic resolution.
By saying "with some discs", I mean copyprotected discs. Yes, you need to turn off the macrovision to upscale to 720P or 1080i with copy protected discs. Although even some copyprotected discs work fine without turning off macrovision. It appears to be implimented in a haphazard way in the LiteOn. But regardless, all DVDs I've tried (over a hundred) upscale to 1080i on the LiteOn without a problem. The review you're reading is not correct. You do not have to worry about HDMI/HDCP with the LiteOn (though the Norcent may be different).
Does LITEON LVR-1001 also does upscaling via component?
Only the LiteOn LVD-2001 does upscaling, and only over component (no DVI available), among LiteOn's models.
fishhead65
02-18-04, 07:08 PM
Provantage shipping the Norcent 501M today. $169 + 8.95 FedEx overnight, not bad!
This is a great price for overnight shipping, but it appears Provantage is doing the same thing with the Norcent that was happening with the LiteOn after it became the hot new DVD toy, raising the price. Yesterday their website was listing the Norcent for $165.46 (but I don't know what the cost of shipping was). Nevertheless, I don't say this to make you feel bad, you did get a good deal when you consider that overnight shipping is usually $18 to $25 most places for something like this.
Originally posted by fishhead65
Provantage shipping the Norcent 501M today. $169 + 8.95 FedEx overnight, not bad!
The FedEx shipping charge is overnight depending on your location. Mine came from Ingram Micro in Illinois.
fishhead65
02-18-04, 09:08 PM
Originally posted by CJayB
This is a great price for overnight shipping, but it appears Provantage is doing the same thing with the Norcent that was happening with the LiteOn after it became the hot new DVD toy, raising the price. Yesterday their website was listing the Norcent for $165.46 (but I don't know what the cost of shipping was). Nevertheless, I don't say this to make you feel bad, you did get a good deal when you consider that overnight shipping is usually $18 to $25 most places for something like this.
Sorry, It was 165.45 +8.95 shipping. Coming from Harriaburg, PA only about 2 hours from me. i've seen this being talked up on other forums as well so we'll see what happens if it gets hot.
Just want that 1080i.
fishhead65
02-19-04, 05:47 PM
Just hooked this up. It definitely is the LiteOn2001. This came with firmware 0227. However, the remote does not have a number pad on it so I can't get to the secret menu.
Tried 1 disc so far, Pirates of the Carribean. Was able to output 720p and 1080i through component.
Hopefully somebody will figure out the secret menu!
Please check if you can do the region change. You don't need the secret menu for that, right?
Ooops! You need the number pad.
Originally posted by fishhead65
Just hooked this up. It definitely is the LiteOn2001. This came with firmware 0227. However, the remote does not have a number pad on it so I can't get to the secret menu.
Tried 1 disc so far, Pirates of the Carribean. Was able to output 720p and 1080i through component.
Hopefully somebody will figure out the secret menu!
Try sliding the lower part of the remote open...the numeric keypad should be hidden under the cover. If it isn't, then that is weird because I have never heard of a DVD player remote that didn't have a numeric keypad.
fishhead65
02-19-04, 07:19 PM
No number pad but there are other buttons. Whomever "discovered" the secret menu for the LiteOn should be able to do it for thsi too, right?
I suppose they took the numbers off just for this reason. Just have to wait or push evey 4 button combination there, HMMM lets see about 16 factorial...thats alot!
Originally posted by fishhead65
Just hooked this up. It definitely is the LiteOn2001. This came with firmware 0227. However, the remote does not have a number pad on it so I can't get to the secret menu.
Tried 1 disc so far, Pirates of the Carribean. Was able to output 720p and 1080i through component.
Hopefully somebody will figure out the secret menu!
Well that's good news and bad news. Glad I'm getting a LiteOn clone, sure hope we can figure out the number pad issue.
Mine arrives tomorrow.
sonick182
02-19-04, 07:41 PM
Anybody have a universal remote with this? You can aways try gettin the codes for the liteon...
Sam: WE are looking forewrd to a very extensive review... no rush though ;)
chengka
02-19-04, 07:42 PM
I received mine today.
Number pad under the sliding door.
Secret menu works. Macrovision is now off.
Software version LVD 2001 2.27!
I'll try upgrading later this evening and post my results.
sonick182
02-19-04, 08:00 PM
Provantage doesnt allow returns do they?
Hi guys! Am I going to benefit from this player. I have currently Infocus 7200 with Panasonic RP-82 with SDI mod. I am waiting for Iscan HD with SDI. The scaler in Infocus is good (Faroudja 2310). Thanks.
Originally posted by sonick182
Anybody have a universal remote with this? You can aways try gettin the codes for the liteon...
Sam: WE are looking forewrd to a very extensive review... no rush though ;)
Oh yes, this weekend it I will put it through its paces. Assuming I can convince FedEx to leave it at my house w/no signature :(
chengka, Let us know how the software upgrades work!
vinodk, I think with the RP-82 and SDI mod, you're about as good as you can get. Your projector has great scaler, with the Norcent, you'd be just scaling down a 1080i signal to 720p. Stick with what you got IMO.
Apostate
02-19-04, 08:13 PM
That's great news. I thought I missed out on the LiteOn 2001's. And dam* me if I am going to pay over $250 on eBay for a used LiteOn 2001 player that was $150 at best when it was brand new.
How about the new LG DVD player (and Zenith clone) that upconverts through component? It's suppose to have Faroudja DCDi and DVI to boot. Which would be a better choice? Norcent (LiteOn clone) or LG?
BTW, is DCDi used when LG upconverts to 1080i?
wblynch
02-19-04, 08:38 PM
I think the Norcent DP-501M will be better through component than the LG-3510 through component.
I tried the LG-3510 through component to my plasma. Even though the player said it was putting out 1080i it looked very soft and fuzzy compared to my Momitsu v-880 with DVI. this leads me to believe that the LG is not using the DCDI through component output.
We couldn't use the LG through DVI because my panel is not HDCP compliant.
I will try the V-880 with 1080i through component tonight. I'm sure the Norcent PQ should be the same as the Momitsu due to the common Sigma-8500 chipset.
fishhead65
02-19-04, 08:39 PM
Originally posted by chengka
I received mine today.
Number pad under the sliding door.
Secret menu works. Macrovision is now off.
Software version LVD 2001 2.27!
I'll try upgrading later this evening and post my results.
I thought it looked strange. I guess I should look at the manual once in a while!
sonick182
02-19-04, 08:46 PM
Originally posted by wblynch
I think the Norcent DP-501M will be better through component than the LG-3510 through component.
I tried the LG-3510 through component to my plasma. Even though the player said it was putting out 1080i it looked very soft and fuzzy compared to my Momitsu v-880 with DVI. this leads me to believe that the LG is not using the DCDI through component output.
We couldn't use the LG through DVI because my panel is not HDCP compliant.
I will try the V-880 with 1080i through component tonight. I'm sure the Norcent PQ should be the same as the Momitsu due to the common Sigma-8500 chipset.
Does the LG-3501 output 1080i? The only LG player that does that fomr what ive heard is the DV-7832
chengka
02-19-04, 08:49 PM
I was not able to update the firmware to 3.01.
The disc was recognised as iso and then it said something like, "Unable to update firmware. Manufacturer mismatch". I hope this isn't terrible news. I only want it for 1080i DVD playback, so hopefully it's not too bad for that.
Does anyone know how to "patch" the firmware to stop checking for the manufacturer?
I'll try 2.29 when I get a chance.
gavin20
02-19-04, 09:07 PM
The Norcent DP-501M is avaliable at Techdepot.com too for the peeps who don't approve Provantage's return policy. :)
Part#:S2853908
For some weird reason, going through computers4sure.com(which is techdepot.com) will allow free shipping:
http://www.computers4sure.com/Product.asp?ProductID=1853908&iid=342
mimason
02-19-04, 10:09 PM
I was not able to update the firmware to 3.01.
Does this mean it won't do 1080i through component?
I am eager to jump on, but don't know much about this player or the LiteOn 2001.
Thanks Gavin20. I ordered one through computers4sure.com. I will keep this just for its region-free and macrovision off features.
Hope we can get firmware version 2.29 through Norcent.
Firmware 2.27 will be fine except colors may be a bit hot and oversaturated. You will need to recalibrate your display with a calibration DVD (or run the settings in minus range generally). PQ and sharpness is only slightly softer than 2.29 (noticeable on sharpness pattern on calibration DVDs but not so much on movies). 3.01 has same PQ as 2.29 but corrected the color oversaturation and overly bright image.
Norcent is a discount brand so I would bet prices will drop. LiteON started out over $200 and then eventually dropped to $130 once it's near extinction (1 year later). If you have the patience, prices should fall. I'm so glad to hear that this is indeed a LiteON clone. Wonder what DVD loader it uses (if it's LiteON 166 then it's a decent loader. If it's Fuss Audio then reliability may be a problem.
I've added a small heatsink with heatsink compound from Ratshack on my Liteon LVD-2001's Sigma 8500 chip, shielded the power plant with rolled up aluminum foil covered with duct tape, wrapped all my power wiring with aluminum AC tape, and replace the stock IDE flat, cheap IDE cable with IOSS Gliadiator, round, ATA133, shielded/grounded, 8" or 20 cm IDE cable ($18 shipped from www.paragonca.com to Indiana, USA) for better reliability (not that it was unreliable in the first place but others have done it, and so did I :D. I also added some polyfill batting to the case and sticky felt pads to the drive to isolate it from the case to quiet down the DVD drive (at spin up it could be heard but the polyfill seems to soften it a bit). It did not improve the PQ (right sided EE was still there) but I sleep better at night ;). Others claim these mods improved their PQ but I think it's more a placebo effect. On my setup (LT150 XGA DLP at 96") comparing premod and postmod with sharpness pattern on Video Essential, PQ was identical pre and postmod.
danielhart
02-19-04, 11:13 PM
I've been following this thread closely. I'm interested in this unit, but have a couple of questions.
I need 2 good DVD players to go with my Panny TH-42PA20U/P and Pioneer Elite Pro HD530i with component and HDMI inputs. I wanted one to be a multidisc changer with Faroudja and DVD audio, but am unimpressed with what is out there (I bought a Denon 1815 and took it back immediately). I've given up on the multidisc idea for now, I bought a used Panny XP50 that I am awaiting shipment on, which I plan to marry to the Panny plasma. For the 530 I can get one of those Sharper Image refurbed XP30's for 265 on ebay (someone bought a bunch and is turning them over), or now I am considering this Norcent....either one would be stopgap until the new Sammy 941 is available with HDMI out.
Am I correct in assuming that much of the furor over a 1080i box with component scaling is for folks who have TV's that are non DVI/HDMI HDCP compliant? In my situation would I be better off with the XP30 at 480p (better decoder and scaler, 100 bucks more) or the Norcent 1080i (100 bucks less, defeat macrovision, region free) for my Pioneer 530i (1080i/480p CRT RPTV)? Or to put it another way, is upscaled 1080i with the Sigma chip going to be better than 480p with a Faroudja deinterlacer when DVD source material is 480i on a great CRT RPTV?
help......my brain is tired from the contemplation.....
thanks
daniel
1080i component is useful for non DVI display or CRT users who may not see a great PQ improvement with DVI as a fixed-panel device would like your plasma, LCD, DLP display devices with fixed resolution panel.
1080i component should look great on your Pioneer 530i but 480p DVI player would look even better on your 852X480 42" plasma. Since your plasma is EDTV or 852X480 there is little advantage of going 1080i DVI or component only to be scaled back down to 480p by your plasma's likely mediocre scaler. It's best to match your plasma native resolution (HTPC is best PQ for fixed panel display devices but 480p STB players are more convenient with great PQ also). Your XP50 should look great via 480p component on your plasma but DVI should be sharper. Some DVI 480p howerver may not look great due to lacking DCDi deinterlacer that XP50 has. Samsung HD931 for $250 should be good 480p DVI as it uses DCDi for its DVI output only (component uses Zoran deinterlacer presumably due to licencing issue with Faroudja). HD941 should be even better.
Momitsu v880 offers DVI, VGA, and component for 1080i, 720p, and 480p/i for $280 from the orient or extremephono. This may be another decent choice for you to play with and compare for yourself which input is better for either display. It uses the same Sigma 8500 chipset and component should be identical to Norcent/LiteON's component output. Plus, it has MV/region free as well as custom resolutions to match your plasma using the latest firmware. Downside is build quality is suspect due to its crappy Fuss-audio DVD loader (many have swapped the DVD loader with $30 LiteON 166 which comes with the LiteON LVD-2001 (at least on mine). It's as simple as changing a DVD drive on your PC and setting the drive to region free on your PC before sticking it in your player's case (the DVD drive is inside the plastic DVD drive cage or box).
Since this is easily available and sound like you can afford it the why not try Norcent for now ($175 shipped) 1080i component which you can compare with the XP50's famed 480p component. Only your eyes can tell which player you would prefer but I would bet XP50 looks best on either of your display due to 1) your plasma can't take advantage of 1080i but a good 480p like XP50 should do the trick (only a good 480p DVI like Samsung HD931 with DCDi may surpass XP50's 480p DCDi via component on your plasma), 2) your CRT TV won't benefit from 1080i or DVI as much due to its CRT analog technology and great builtin scaler (so a good 480p player like XP50 may be best). Just my opinion of course.
Originally posted by chengka
I was not able to update the firmware to 3.01.
The disc was recognised as iso and then it said something like, "Unable to update firmware. Manufacturer mismatch". I hope this isn't terrible news. I only want it for 1080i DVD playback, so hopefully it's not too bad for that.
Does anyone know how to "patch" the firmware to stop checking for the manufacturer?
I'll try 2.29 when I get a chance.
So does this mean you corrupted the player and it doesn't work at all, or that it just didn't "take" the update?
chengka
02-20-04, 12:22 AM
No damage done. Still plays fine.
I ran accross something while trying to upgrade the firmware. The flash.fuf file for 2.29 looks like this
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
# *************************************
# FLASH Firmware Update File
# Copyright(c) 2002 Sigma Designs, Inc.
# *************************************
# Settings
# =====================================
@Version V0.02.27
@Date 2003-7-25
@Player LVD-2001
@Reset 0
@Settings 011
@VendorID 0
@Confirm 0
# Files Address
# =====================================
loader.bin 0x0000
romfs.bin 0x6000
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm making an assumption that this file is used to create the display seen on the setup screen. Could version 2.29 be loaded, but be displaying this info? The maufacture date of my 501m is Aug2003 and V2.29 is an august release. Does anyone have v2.29 on a 2001 and what does it display? Is there any definitive way to determine the version by anything other than the setup screen?
BTW, I tried changing this file, but so far, it still tells me to "get a CD from my Vendor"
This is odd news, chengka. Although I can't answer any of the questions you asked, keep playing around with it, as my 501m arrives tomorrow and I have V229 and V301b ready to try on it.
Did you use the Nero software initially to burn the updates?
mimason
02-20-04, 12:47 AM
Originally posted by Huey
1080i component is useful for non DVI display or CRT users who may not see a great PQ improvement with DVI as a fixed-panel device would like your plasma, LCD, DLP display devices with fixed resolution panel.
1080i component should look great on your Pioneer 530i but 480p DVI player would look even better on your 852X480 42" plasma. Since your plasma is EDTV or 852X480 there is little advantage of going 1080i DVI or component only to be scaled back down to 480p by your plasma's likely mediocre scaler. It's best to match your plasma native resolution (HTPC is best PQ for fixed panel display devices but 480p STB players are more convenient with great PQ also). Your XP50 should look great via 480p component on your plasma but DVI should be sharper. Some DVI 480p howerver may not look great due to lacking DCDi deinterlacer that XP50 has. Samsung HD931 for $250 should be good 480p DVI as it uses DCDi for its DVI output only (component uses Zoran deinterlacer presumably due to licencing issue with Faroudja). HD941 should be even better.
Since this is easily available and sound like you can afford it the why not try Norcent for now ($175 shipped) 1080i component which you can compare with the XP50's famed 480p component. Only your eyes can tell which player you would prefer but I would bet XP50 looks best on either of your display due to 1) your plasma can't take advantage of 1080i but a good 480p like XP50 should do the trick (only a good 480p DVI like Samsung HD931 with DCDi may surpass XP50's 480p DCDi via component on your plasma), 2) your CRT TV won't benefit from 1080i or DVI as much due to its CRT analog technology and great builtin scaler (so a good 480p player like XP50 may be best). Just my opinion of course.
Great information. So you think my 1080i capable 36" CRT will be better off with the Norcent than a Denon 1600 or RP91? Also, what is the benefit of macrovision off?
Thanks in advance for your comments.
mmadlang
02-20-04, 01:20 AM
I too have picked up a Norcent player and will see how it goes...
chengka
02-20-04, 01:23 AM
Sam,
Yes, I used Nero to burn the .NRG . I don't think there's a problem with the cd(s), but I could be wrong. I hope it works for someone else, so I can be educated:)
I've opened it up and it's got a dvd-2001 mainboard. The loader does not say Liteon. It doesn't list anything except a serial number. Probably a cheaper item.
I watched some Gladiator on a 12" crt and it looked fine. Hmmm, not quite the same as the 92" 1HD planned for tomorrow night.
I also emailed Norcent support, but I have very low expectations.
Ken
danielhart
02-20-04, 02:54 AM
Huey
Thanks for the informative reply. I may go a bit OT on this, so I apologize for any distractions to the thread.
I am onboard with the 480p to my panny plasma, which is why I had planned to use the XP50 with that. I didn't want to mention this in my first post, I am almost embarrased to say that I also own a Sammy 931 which is currently married to a Sammy DLP in my living room. God, now I feel like an HD pig. I am not wealthy, I just don't spend my money on much else, and I do try to spend wisely on what I do buy.
Anyways, I thought the big deal with the 931 is the 720p DVI out, and it does an impressive job married to the Sammy DLP. I know it will output 480p via DVI, and thought about another 931 for the Panny plasma, but it has only one DVI input, which is occupied by the DVI out on my STB. Plus it's a wall mount with a probably too long (but needed) 30 foot DVI cable to my opposite wall bedroom rack. So I thought I would be better off going with the XP50 480p via component, and save my DVI for STB HDCP use. I would think a DVI switch in this mix would be a bad idea and I don't really want to go there unless I would get a substantial improvement from DVI 480p from a 931 over the XP50's 480p, which doesn't sound like it would be the case.
For the 530i, I think I am going to go with the XP30 until the Sammy 941 arrives in the fall. It's a proven unit, and should be easier to resell than either the Norcent or the 931. Doesn't seem like I would gain any benefit from the 1080i Norcent with this TV anyways, and the problems already noted in this thread with the firmware updates needed to make the Norcent perform at it's best just add to making my choice easier.
I'm headin to ebay to "Buy it Now"
thanks,
daniel
Originally posted by chengka
I've opened it up and it's got a dvd-2001 mainboard. The loader does not say Liteon. It doesn't list anything except a serial number. Probably a cheaper item.
I wonder if replacing with a 163 Liteon loader would make it "take" the firmware?
It looked like you know how to poke around the Liteon firmware with you PC. Any chance of modifying it?
fishhead65
02-20-04, 08:36 AM
Originally posted by mimason
Does this mean it won't do 1080i through component?
I am eager to jump on, but don't know much about this player or the LiteOn 2001.
It still outputs 1080i through component with 227.
PQ looks nice!
BTW, the remote has to be one of the cheesiest I have ever seen. TIny buttons, poorly labeled etc. SHouldn't complain as long as I can use the 1080i.
sonick182
02-20-04, 08:54 AM
Huey: So in fact, if my projector's a SVGA resolution PJ i should look at a nice progressive scan player rather than a HD-upconverting player?
Originally posted by chengka
No damage done. Still plays fine.
I ran accross something while trying to upgrade the firmware. The flash.fuf file for 2.29 looks like this
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
# *************************************
# FLASH Firmware Update File
# Copyright(c) 2002 Sigma Designs, Inc.
# *************************************
# Settings
# =====================================
@Version V0.02.27
@Date 2003-7-25
@Player LVD-2001
@Reset 0
@Settings 011
@VendorID 0
@Confirm 0
# Files Address
# =====================================
loader.bin 0x0000
romfs.bin 0x6000
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm making an assumption that this file is used to create the display seen on the setup screen. Could version 2.29 be loaded, but be displaying this info? The maufacture date of my 501m is Aug2003 and V2.29 is an august release. Does anyone have v2.29 on a 2001 and what does it display? Is there any definitive way to determine the version by anything other than the setup screen?
BTW, I tried changing this file, but so far, it still tells me to "get a CD from my Vendor"
Hmm, interesting. Seems the Norcent was probably programmed with a different VendorID. There's probably two ways around it. Increment the VendorID until you hit the one used by Norcent or find a way to get it to ignore the VendorID and flash it anyway.
I'm trying to decide if I should buy this DVD player. I have a Panasonic PT-47WX53 on the way which has one DVI input. I'm wondering if I should save the DVI input for HD cable or use it for a DVD player such the Bravo D1. Seems the D1 is kind of a finicky player, though, so I'm not sure I want to deal with it. Your advice and/or experiences are much appreciated.
Originally posted by Parja
Hmm, interesting. Seems the Norcent was probably programmed with a different VendorID. There's probably two ways around it. Increment the VendorID until you hit the one used by Norcent or find a way to get it to ignore the VendorID and flash it anyway.
So who's up for the challenge? ;)
chengka
02-20-04, 11:15 AM
Ok, I'll keep trying. I might start using cdr-w, since my stack of failed cdr's is growing. Will CDR-W work on this device?
Parja,
Do you think the @VENDORID 0 means Vendor=0? I assumed it was a 0 or 1, as in on or off..
How about @confirm ?
chengka, yes CD-RW should work fine.
Mine should be waiting for me today when I get home, I'll be eager to know what you find out.
gavin20
02-20-04, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by chengka
Ok, I'll keep trying. I might start using cdr-w, since my stack of failed cdr's is growing. Will CDR-W work on this device?
Parja,
Do you think the @VENDORID 0 means Vendor=0? I assumed it was a 0 or 1, as in on or off..
How about @confirm ?
bah, i dunno shizat about firmware hacks, but maybe it should be changed to 3? :confused:
http://www.semiconductors.philips.com/buses/usb/products/hub/isp112x/faq/#faq12
Kenni_o
02-20-04, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by chengka
No damage done. Still plays fine.
I ran accross something while trying to upgrade the firmware. The flash.fuf file for 2.29 looks like this
Chengka - If I remember right, "Deathwind" is a firmware expert who could help you out. He went into the firmware of the Bravo machine last year. I suggest you try and contact him.
There's also some info here. (http://sigma-players.nd.e-wro.pl/) Look at the FAQ. Be aware of the "loader.bin 0x0000" instruction. What he's saying is don't use a disc that tries to overwrite the loader.bin. Here's what's in the latest fw that I used:
# *************************************
# FLASH Firmware Update File
# Copyright(c) 2002 Sigma Designs, Inc.
# *************************************
# Settings
# =====================================
@Version 2.0.4
@Date 2003-12-23
@Player PLAYER_JIACAI
@Reset 1
# Files Address
# =====================================
# loader.bin 0x0000
romfs.bin 0x10000
Note that the loader.bin is commented out. Also the owner of the page linked above (tomb2) is very helpful in these matters.
jeff
Only you can decide which input looks better on your setup. Generally speaking however, CRT will look great with 480p especially using a great player like XP30/XP50/RP82/CP72 as they have great MPEG2 decoder and DCDi deinterlacer. RP91 uses Genesis deinterlacer which is good but not as good as DCDi by Faroudja. It does use the same MPEG2 decoder that the other Pannys do. RP62 has DCDi but not the best MPEG2 decoder (therefore cheaper). It also has CSS enabled which can cause flickering reds on some displays (I personally never noticed on my RP62 but I don't get next to the screen to analyze the reds).
CRT can look better with DVI but not all people prefer this as it may show more film grain due to better sharpness. Depending on your CRT resolution, convergence, and quality you may not see a benefit with DVI. Thus component may look just as good. As far as if 1080i will look better than 480p by DCDi, it depends on your preference and display. Some older HDTV needs 1080i to do the anamorphic squeeze so in this case 1080i is best. If your TV squeezes on 480p then DCDi may look nearly as good. The differences are subtle on CRT with 1080i generally looks softer, smoother, more film-like. 1080i also depends on the DVD player and no one can predict how it would look on your TV.
Digital display like DLP, LCD, Plasma, LCOS, SXRD will benefit more from DVI over VGA which is over component for sharpness. The problem is some display disables color controls on DVI or VGA so component may look better. On my LT150 for example, VGA disables anamorphic squeeze and extensive color controls so although VGA is theoretically better, component looks better on anamorphic tittles especially with much better color controls. As far as if 1080i will look better or 480p, it depends on your panel size. 852X480 (wide VGA or EDTV) will look best on 480p. SVGA is a toss up as it's in between XGA and wide VGA. Generally displays do better downscaling than upscaling as information is squeezed down rather than exaggerated up to fill the lines. Thus, 720p or 1080i may do better on SVGA (depending on your scaler). X1 PJ for example has great scaler and DCDi deinterlacer and therefore 480i via component may be all you need. XGA and wide XGA (1280X720 or 1366X768) should look best with 720p DVI. 1080i may look better on poorer signals as it softens the image and hide noise better (like TV broadcast picture if using a scaler or poorly mastered DVDs). SXGA displays like LCOS may do best with 1080i due to its higher resolution panel with DVI giving the sharpest image.
Just my rambling. Hope this helps some people and not piss too many people off :D
Originally posted by chengka
I received mine today.
Number pad under the sliding door.
Secret menu works. Macrovision is now off.
Software version LVD 2001 2.27!
I'll try upgrading later this evening and post my results.
Help,
I have been lurking and ordered one yesterday, and it showed today!
How do I get it to play 720p or 1080i?? And what is the advantages of updateing to a different firmware?
Thx in advance,
Scott
Originally posted by mimason
Great information. So you think my 1080i capable 36" CRT will be better off with the Norcent than a Denon 1600 or RP91? Also, what is the benefit of macrovision off?
Thanks in advance for your comments.
Sorry if this is off topic, but I have a Runco Scaler on Ebay that would do your plasma excellent justice....
Note to moderators: If you feel this is not the right place, delete it... Just trying to help someone out here..
Scott
You use the P-SCAN button on the remote to cycle through all the different modes, that will take you to either 480P or 720P or 1080i (and PAL modes as well if you need to output PAL instead of NTSC).
The 2.29 and 3.01b firmwares (for the LiteOn) have a little better picture quality, improving sharpness and detail and color, though not a dramatic improvement.
The most improvement you can make with these players is to upgrade the flat and cheap IDE cable inside the unit to a high quality round cable. For some displays, especially CRT displays, the difference can be dramatic--in the neighborhood of 10% to as much as 25%. I found a good 15% or 20% with my LiteOn that I upgraded to an IOSS Gladiator IDE round cable.
chengka
02-20-04, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by jamsys
Help,
I have been lurking and ordered one yesterday, and it showed today!
How do I get it to play 720p or 1080i?? And what is the advantages of updateing to a different firmware?
Thx in advance,
Scott
Pressing the P-SCAN button on the remote cycles through the available resolutions. You may have to disable MACROVISION to activate the 1080i resolution. To do that, empty the drive and press 2960. That should bring up the "secret menu" which lets you disable Macrovision.
I did not see any PQ improvement on my LiteON LVD-2001 v301b firmware with my grounded IOSS 8" Gliadiator cable on my 96" XGA LT150 DLP: right sided EE was still there which is not noticeable until I sit less than 96" from screen. I also did the heatsink on 8500 chip, twisting wire, and shielding power plant with aluminum foil covered with duct tape and power cables with aluminum tape. No change in PQ. I do sleep better though :D
chengka
02-20-04, 05:33 PM
Huey,
I have the IOSS cable on order. I also plan to make a "shield" for the ps. I'm hoping that's covers the major emf/rf issues. Did the aluminum tape help much? Where did you get it?
Between creating an entertainment center on my wall, fabricating my own ceiling mount, making my own cables, making a screen, making nice, but temp, speaker stands and now rebuilding a dvd player, my projector bargain has turned into a real handful:D
chengka
02-20-04, 07:07 PM
Ok, so finesse wasn't necessary. I changed the flash.fuf to
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
# *************************************
# FLASH Firmware Update File
# Copyright(c) 2002 Sigma Designs, Inc.
# *************************************
# Settings
# =====================================
@Version V0.02.27
@Date 2003-7-25
@Player LVD-2001
@Reset 0
@Settings 011
@VendorID 1
@Confirm 1
# Files Address
# =====================================
loader.bin 0x0000
romfs.bin 0x6000
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
and it loaded! The splash screen is now Liteon and setup says v3.01:D
Many thanks to Parja for the simple solution. I don't know if 3.01 is better, but darn it it's the latest!
I'd post my ISO, but it's over 5mb and I don't have a place to put it. All I did was use WINISO to extract the flash.fuf, edit it with Notepad. Put it back into the WINISO'd open image, save it as ISO and burn it with Nero. BTW, is used CDRW and I didnt't finalize.
sonick182
02-20-04, 07:40 PM
I dont know much bout the 2001, so im just wondering, what features does the new firmware provide?
gavin20
02-20-04, 08:15 PM
Originally posted by chengka
Many thanks to Parja for the simple solution. I don't know if 3.01 is better, but darn it it's the latest!
I'd post my ISO, but it's over 5mb and I don't have a place to put it. All I did was use WINISO to extract the flash.fuf, edit it with Notepad. Put it back into the WINISO'd open image, save it as ISO and burn it with Nero. BTW, is used CDRW and I didnt't finalize.
Umm...newbie q, but where's the 3.0.1 firmware at? :confused:
/me tries to hold out for ethernet capable dvd player...must keep cash in wallet, so tempting...
You can get the 3.01b firmware here:
www.nbtelectronics.com/files/2001-0301.zip
There is only a small improvement with this firmware over 2.29, but I do recommend the upgrade.
Nathan_R
02-20-04, 09:07 PM
Woo-hoo! He's right. I got my Norcent today, and by following chengka's instructions, I've updated the Norcent to 3.01b.
Thanks a ton!
~~Nathan
I would still heed the warnings about loader.bin. Commenting it out doesn't hurt and it will save your bacon if you get a bad firmware version.
jeff
Nathan_R
02-20-04, 09:39 PM
Just an FYI, I actually had a bad burn the first time I upgraded the Norcent firmware to the LiteOn 3.01b. After the upgrade the unit's text was completely unreadable. I followed this procedure: http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?&postid=1892701#post1892701 and everything went back to normal.....normal with 3.01b that is ;)
Originally posted by chengka
Ok, so finesse wasn't necessary. I changed the flash.fuf to
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
# *************************************
# FLASH Firmware Update File
# Copyright(c) 2002 Sigma Designs, Inc.
# *************************************
# Settings
# =====================================
@Version V0.02.27
@Date 2003-7-25
@Player LVD-2001
@Reset 0
@Settings 011
@VendorID 1
@Confirm 1
# Files Address
# =====================================
loader.bin 0x0000
romfs.bin 0x6000
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
and it loaded! The splash screen is now Liteon and setup says v3.01:D
Many thanks to Parja for the simple solution. I don't know if 3.01 is better, but darn it it's the latest!
I'd post my ISO, but it's over 5mb and I don't have a place to put it. All I did was use WINISO to extract the flash.fuf, edit it with Notepad. Put it back into the WINISO'd open image, save it as ISO and burn it with Nero. BTW, is used CDRW and I didnt't finalize.
Ha, sweet! Glad to hear it was that simple. If you want to e-mail me the file (parja at charter dot net), I can host it.
Nathan_R
02-20-04, 11:09 PM
Norcent -> Liteon 3.01b firmware Nero file for flashing the Norcent unit to the LiteOn 3.01b firmware. Make sure you don't have any burn errors. :)
PROCEED AT YOUR OWN RISK-- POSSIBLE ERRORS IN FILE
I'll leave this up until you folks max out my bandwidth.
2-28-04 Note: Link removed, as download is not needed. Use the "bailout procedure" described in this thread to flash the Norcent with the LiteOn firmware
Wanted to thank all of you here!
I just got the player up and did a quick comparision between 480p and 1080i and I feel it is stunning. I personally think it had a better picture then my Denon 2200, and Lexicon RT-10 (all at 480p)
I have a Mits 73" RPTV with 9" Guns, and with a little tweaking of the sharpness the image is stunning.
Now if someone can tell me why 2960 does not bring up any secret menu?
Also is there any Descrete Codes to use instead of hitting the P-Scan button to toggle modes?
btw, even the 480i looked pretty damm good and I am comparing this with a Meridian 598DP
Scott
Originally posted by Nathan_R
Norcent -> Liteon 3.01b firmware (http://www.atlhometheater.com/norcent/V0.03.01.nrg). Nero file for flashing the Norcent unit to the LiteOn 3.01b firmware. Make sure you don't have any burn errors. :)
I'll leave this up until you folks max out my bandwidth.
Nathan,
Thx a million, took me 15sec to suck it down!
Scott:D
jamsys
To bring up the hidden menu, make sure the tray is empty or open. Then hit 2-9-6-0. Note that the remote is not very responsive, so if you don't hit the buttons firmly and aim the remote carefully at the player it won't work. Just try again, eventually it will come up. Even being used to the remote, it sometimes takes me 2 or 3 trys.
Excellent! Thank you chengka and Nathan for your work to get us on track with the Norcent!!
Mine arrived today. I swear there was a loose screw rolling around in it, and then I stopped. I even took off the lid, but didn't see anything ???
Unfotunately a hard drive crash on Wednesday wiped out my computer along with my Nero software. I can't find the disc now. Anybody know where I can get a trial version or how to buy a copy at the store that's not $99?
Does this player have VGA out or DVI-I out?
For Nero, go to www.nero.com and then downloads where you will find a fully functioning (for a limited time) demo version.
absolutic
02-21-04, 01:01 AM
Guys and girls. I started this thread and I am glad that a lot of you now bought this Norcent player. Here is the question, I am kinda dissappointed with my LITEON 2001 since it has been freezing a lot on my divx files. Can you guys check how this Norcent player do on divx/xvid files? just curious
Help!
I have corrupted firmware V301b!
I downloaded the firware for Norcent->Liteon that Nathan hosted. Burned it with Nero at lowest (24X) speed.
Updated the firmware, and got the LiteON splash screen. Good.
BUT: the player-generated text is completely garbled and I can't make any selections. I.e. if you are in the set-up screen, you see all the icons on the left, but the options are grey and garbled out!
I tried to reflash, but upon insertion of the disc, you have to use the arrow keys and enter to start the flash. Well, I can't see what I'm doing, and it always ejects the disc.
Can someone tell me the exact series of remote key strokes to re-start the flash when the start screen comes up?
Sam, see Nathan's post on the previous page. He provides a link that gives the proper way to load the firmware by hitting the Stop key on the remote and pulling the power cord. Looks like he had the same problem you did until he tried the instructions in the link he provides.
Good luck.
CJayB,
Thanks for the tip. I tried the method, but no luck. Maybe I'm not hitting Play at the right time?
The update disc just spins loudly while the player is off (red light).
Maybe I can try the remote steps if someone will walk me through it as I'm "blind" in that initial menu.
Sam, are these the instructions you followed:
--Turn on your LiteOn/Norcent.
--Insert your update CD-ROM disc (make sure the CD-ROM is updated with the hack for the Norcent).
--Press the STOP key on the front of the LiteOn/Norcent (not on the remote) and at the same time disconnect the power cord and then reconnect it (still pressing STOP).
--Press PLAY on the LiteOn/Norcent (on the front of the unit) to restart loading the firmware.
--The Update firmware CD-ROM should launch automatically.
Note that the unit will take several minutes to install the new firmware, just let it run.
This information was originally posted on a French website dedicated to the LiteOn, I just added a few notes to the translation I took off the HomeTheaterForum.
Also note that I have never tried this procedure, the updates I've done to my LiteOn have gone without a hitch and I never needed to bail myself out with this procedure, but others have reported it works to correct a corrupted firmware installation.
If this doesn't work, you probably have a bad CD-ROM and will need to reburn it, or I misinterpreted the procedures and in that case I'm sure someone will chime in to correct my instructions.
Again, good luck.
CJayB,
Yeah! I got it, thank you! The key was two things:
1) You have to hold the STOP button continuously as you plug back in the power cord.
2) Reflashing with the Norcent->Liteon firmware was still bad, so I did the same step with just a pure Liteon V301b firmware disc. Worked perfect!
FYI, the change from V227 to V301b does improve the picture.
Originally posted by Nathan_R
Norcent -> Liteon 3.01b firmware (http://www.atlhometheater.com/norcent/V0.03.01.nrg). Nero file for flashing the Norcent unit to the LiteOn 3.01b firmware. Make sure you don't have any burn errors. :)
I'll leave this up until you folks max out my bandwidth.
Cool, thanks! I downloaded it and put it up on my own site. Alternate download location here (http://webpages.charter.net/parja77/V0.03.01.nrg).
Nathan_R
02-21-04, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by Sam Scamardo
CJayB,
Yeah! I got it, thank you! The key was two things:
1) You have to hold the STOP button continuously as you plug back in the power cord.
2) Reflashing with the Norcent->Liteon firmware was still bad, so I did the same step with just a pure Liteon V301b firmware disc. Worked perfect!
FYI, the change from V227 to V301b does improve the picture.
Sam, this the exact thing I had to do. I had a pure LiteOn 3.01 firmware (no tampering) that I used to reflash it once the garbled text showed up.
I don't know if that is a matter of me doing something wrong with the firmware editing or if it's just a side effect of of the editing process.
Could someone else please try the flash.fuf modification and see if you can get a better NRG image? I can host it if needed.
Alternately, has anyone tried the "bailout procedure" alone to flash the pure LiteOn firmware? Maybe we don't need to edit the files at all by going that route.
On a side note, I'm under the impression that the tray in the Norcent is sturdier than the Liteon's. Anyone else think so?
Best regards,
~~Nathan
I got my IOSS Gladiator 8" or 20 cm ATA133 cable from www.paragonca.com for $18 shipped. It was the ONLY site with 8", 2 devices (no extra IDE connector in the middle but just at the 2 ends) for reasonable pricing and shipping ($13+5 S/H within USA). They shipped it out same day and arrived to IN in about 3 days. They used USPS with tracking (not UPS mind you) and emailed me with all the tracking info the next day.
The aluminum tape is what's used by AC/heating contractor to seal duct work and can be found at your local hardware store. It's 4-5X as thick as aluminum foil and sticky on one side. Perfect for wrapping wires to shield against electrical interference. It's about $5 a roll and has many uses around the house. Here is an online example: http://paint-and-supplies.aubuchonhardware.com/tape_and_drop_cloths/sealing_and_duct_tape/aluminum_foil_tape-402843.asp
http://media.doitbest.com/products/434825.gif
Oh, by the way try not to short out your DVD player by wrapping this stuff close to open electrical contacts (especially underneath the DVD drive as it's full of open contacts under the green IC board as there are some power wires going from the powerplant to the Sigma video board under the DVD drive.) You can wrap electrical tape around this aluminum tape to protect it against electrical contacts.
Originally posted by Huey
I got my IOSS Gladiator 8" or 20 cm ATA133 cable from www.paragonca.com for $18 shipped. It was the ONLY site with 8", 2 devices (no extra IDE connector in the middle but just at the 2 ends) for reasonable pricing and shipping ($13+5 S/H within USA). They shipped it out same day and arrived to IN in about 3 days. They used USPS with tracking (not UPS mind you) and emailed me with all the tracking info the next day.
Huey,
What improvements did you notice with this upgrade? If I'm not very tech-savvy, how hard will it be for me to replace the cable?
Nathan,
Whew, I'm glad I'm not the only one who was having this "trouble". I was pretty scared for a minute there that I totally ruined my 2-hour-old DVD player ;) You know it would still play movies with that Norcent->LiteOn garbled firmware, but the 1080i output was having trouble. Flickering, horizontal lines going through the picture. Looked like it was about to croak! Everything is working/looking great now with LiteOn V301b.
As far as the loader goes, I never had a LiteOn to compare to. The player itself seems pretty well-built, although I'm still curious about that thing rolling around in there intially.
I saw NO picture quality improvements on my 96" wide XGA DLP NEC LT150 via 1080i component when comparing Video Essentials test patterns before and after the mods. I merely did it because 1) I was curious on all the people touting how great these modes are, 2) I was bored, 3) I want to disprove that these simple mods can improve image quality :D. It took less than 1/2 hour to wrap all the stuff and the changing of the cable was 5 seconds. Please don't do this thinking it would increase your image PQ as it does NOT. Most of the improvements were peace of mind and placebo effect IMHO. Most people did not compare pre and post mods with a test pattern like I did. The right-sided edge-enhancement that plagues these Sigma component scaling players (also present in Momitsu's component but not its VGA or DVI outputs) due to poor analog video DAC were still present postmods.
Heatsink on the Sigma 8500 chip makes sense as it reduces heat and prolongs life of your player. Sound proofing makes sense as the LiteON DVD drive is slightly noisier than my JVC n40bk. Shielding the powerplant with aluminum foil (6 feet folded in 2" increments with duct tape outside the shield wall to avoid accidental electrical contacts) make sense as it can't hurt and may help. The improved IDE cable swap may reduce stutters, smooth out pans, and reduce image breakups due to improve and more efficient data throughput (proven using PC benchmarks on many reputable sites).
I think Nathan's "bailout procedure" looks promising (I don't think Norcent->LiteOn garbled firmware is working). I will try once I get mine on Tuesday. I bought mine from Computer4sure dot com.
Nathan_R
02-21-04, 10:51 AM
I was pretty scared for a minute there that I totally ruined my 2-hour-old DVD player
At least yours was 2 hours old. Mine went straight out of the box into firmware limbo-- and I went into panic mode. :D
It does do 720p or 1080i over component, right? How do you set this up? My TV takes either 480p or 1080i so can you just set the player to always output 1080i? Thanks.
John
Originally posted by CJayB
No VGA or DVI.
I did numerous upgrades to my LiteOn, using both the IOSS Gladiator 8" IDE cable (on one of my two players, with the other I was forced to use a 12" Gladiator from Paragon--no difference between the two cables) and a sh%$load of aluminum tape and copper tape (using copper snail barrier tape I got from Osh Hardware Orchard Supply--they also have the aluminum tape for $8.99 for 50 yards by 2") and here are my findings:
Using Sony 53" RPTV, and comparing the LiteOn to a a very fine Pioneer DV-37 run through an iScan Ultra video processor and then using the same films on DVD and on DVHS with my JVC 30K HD D-Theater VCR, the comparion is as follows:
Pioneer DV-37 is a 5 at 480P
JVC 30K HD D-Theater at 1080i is a 10
LiteOn out of the box 1080i with 2.23 firmware is a 5.5+
LiteOn with 3.01b firmware is a 6
LiteOn with the IOSS Gladiator IDE cable with no other modifications a 7+
LiteOn with all the other modifications and shielding I have done a 8
So you can see that the LiteOn/Norcent with the right modifications, takes you more than half way to the quality of true hi-def from a regular DVD player.
Note that some of the modifications to my LiteOn involved both dampening the loader and heavily shielding it from the rest of the system, and if the Norcent uses a better loader, its picture out of the box may be better than the LiteOn, which means you may not see as large of an improvement as I have with these modifications. Also to fully appreciate the LiteOn/Norcent and the modifications, based on what I've seen, it appears that the most benefit will be to CRT-based systems, in particular RPTVs.
jcg
The LiteOn/Norcent does do both 720P and 1080i over component, but 720P is not very good. These players only shine at 1080i. You can easily set it to 1080i using the P-Scan button on the remote by cycling though the various modes until you get to 1080i and it will then stay set at 1080i.
Originally posted by CJayB
Note that some of the modifications to my LiteOn involved both dampening the loader and heavily shielding it from the rest of the system, and if the Norcent uses a better loader, its picture out of the box may be better than the LiteOn, which means you may not see as large of an improvement as I have with these modifications.
CJayB,
Thanks for sharing your observations on the improvements to your players.
How can I check to see if the Norcent loader is different/better than the Liteon. Where and what should I look for?
Omikron
02-21-04, 01:15 PM
Owners of Norcent DP-501M, anyone care to open up the chasis and take a few pictures inside, so that we can verify if DP-501M is the identical twin to LVD-2001? How many memory adaptor cards did DP-501M include in their package?
Omikron,
Unfortunately, I have digital camera :( If you point me to where there's some good internal Liteon pics, I will compare my player to it.
Norcent only supplies one memory card adaptor. It is a 4 in 1 PCMCIA card. Is this all I'd need?
I have 2 PCMCIA cards with my LiteON LVD-2001 and my DVD loader is actually a 166 in a black plastic drive cage (original--I did not swap any loaders) and not 163 like most other LiteON LVD-2001's. Here is a review site with inerts of LVD-2001:
http://www.kitsapcomputers.com/lvd05.htm . Here are some of the reviewer's images:
http://www.kitsapcomputers.com/opened02.jpg
http://www.kitsapcomputers.com/ltd163.jpg
http://www.kitsapcomputers.com/powersupply.jpg
http://www.kitsapcomputers.com/cardreader.jpg
http://www.kitsapcomputers.com/EM8500.jpg
http://www.kitsapcomputers.com/EM850002.jpg
http://www.kitsapcomputers.com/opened05.jpg
http://www.kitsapcomputers.com/opened04.jpg
When I took mine apart (briefly) yesterday, I remember it having a loader with a black plastic case. Not like what is pictured above.
Later today I will open it again.
On a PQ note:
I spent some time with the player this morning after upgrading to V301b. Here are my impressions on the Norcent compared to my Panny XP50 and my RP-91K. My display is a 55" Mitsubishi 55908 Diamond Series HD-ready set that has been ISF calibrated for 1080i/480p 3 times, including optimized for both the Panasonic players outputing 480p.
Good
1) Norcent seems very reliable/sturdy with V301b firmware, no glitching.
2) Menu and DVD navigation is quick, faster than XP50
3) Scaling of non-anamophic film DVDs is excellent, even better than the RP-91, and much better than the internal zoom of my TV. Big plus for me here.
4) Plays everything under the sun. Region/macrovision-free!
5) Remote is not so bad, I wish the Zoom button was not under the sliding cover, though.
6) Movies at 1080i have a very fluid, almost 3D look to them. Definitely looks more "progressive-scan" than 480p.
Not-so-good
1) PQ is marginal at the default settings. I increased brightness to +1 to get approximately the same brightness as the XP50.
2) Gamma is only so-so comparted to XP50, see above.
3) Colors seem to be a little flat. I experimented with the Saturation control, but the only way to truely get it right would be with video test equipment. Potential for improvement here.
4) Ringing is minor, but still visible on some objects. Seems to exaggerate ringing in the transfer.
5) Deinterlacer is not so hot, I'm spoiled by the Faroudja chips.
6) Bad edit detection is pretty rotten, worse than RP-91 with V259 and Auto3 setting.
Overall, I think it's a very cool player to have, but for critical viewing, I'll have to stick with the Panny XP50/RP91 combo since my display is optimized for them.
chengka
02-21-04, 02:41 PM
Glad to hear everyone's firmware problems are resolved. It sounds like the stop button, pull the plug procedure forces the machine to use very low level firmware code. I would use the standard Liteon files if that's the case.
I saved mine modified image as .ISO, since when I just modified the .NRG, I could not open it again with WinISO. Perhaps that's what caused the hacked .NRG's to fail.
I have had it open and if I'm feeling ambitious I'll open it before my IOSS cable arrives. From memory I can tell you that the drive it definitely different. It's all black with just a large silver disc (spindle anchor?) on top. Maybe it's the dreaded FOSS(?) of Bravo "fame". The mainboard model number is very similar, if not the same. I didn't pull the ribbon to expose it completely.
Oh heck, I'll go take some pictures and post them in a few minutes.
chengka
02-21-04, 03:10 PM
Norcent 501M
chengka
02-21-04, 03:14 PM
Huey, how do you paste photos into your post?
Just one PCMCIA adapter. Not shipped inside the case;)
chengka
02-21-04, 03:16 PM
Last one.
Anyone verify whether the loader is a LiteOn or Fuss?
John
Originally posted by Huey
Firmware 2.27 will be fine except colors may be a bit hot and oversaturated. You will need to recalibrate your display with a calibration DVD (or run the settings in minus range generally). PQ and sharpness is only slightly softer than 2.29 (noticeable on sharpness pattern on calibration DVDs but not so much on movies). 3.01 has same PQ as 2.29 but corrected the color oversaturation and overly bright image.
Norcent is a discount brand so I would bet prices will drop. LiteON started out over $200 and then eventually dropped to $130 once it's near extinction (1 year later). If you have the patience, prices should fall. I'm so glad to hear that this is indeed a LiteON clone. Wonder what DVD loader it uses (if it's LiteON 166 then it's a decent loader. If it's Fuss Audio then reliability may be a problem.
I've added a small heatsink with heatsink compound from Ratshack on my Liteon LVD-2001's Sigma 8500 chip, shielded the power plant with rolled up aluminum foil covered with duct tape, wrapped all my power wiring with aluminum AC tape, and replace the stock IDE flat, cheap IDE cable with IOSS Gliadiator, round, ATA133, shielded/grounded, 8" or 20 cm IDE cable ($18 shipped from www.paragonca.com to Indiana, USA) for better reliability (not that it was unreliable in the first place but others have done it, and so did I :D. I also added some polyfill batting to the case and sticky felt pads to the drive to isolate it from the case to quiet down the DVD drive (at spin up it could be heard but the polyfill seems to soften it a bit). It did not improve the PQ (right sided EE was still there) but I sleep better at night ;). Others claim these mods improved their PQ but I think it's more a placebo effect. On my setup (LT150 XGA DLP at 96") comparing premod and postmod with sharpness pattern on Video Essential, PQ was identical pre and postmod.
Sam
With the upgrades I've done, the gamma has improved dramatically with my LiteOn. Out of the box, the gamma is a bit weak (I've mentioned this before over at the HomeTheaterForum), but now it is better than any of the other DVD players I've owned, and I've owned several, including a couple $800 (discounted price) units with a gamma control.
As far as color, my LiteOn is not the least bit flat. Even out of the box the color was very good, better than anything I had seen before on DVD, but with the modifications I've done, the color is very close to my D-Theater DVHS tapes. As my earlier post stated, the LiteOn now produces an image that is more than halfway to DVHS compared to a standard highend 480P DVD player, but I would say that the color is even closer than halfway, it very nearly matches DVHS and Hi-Def TV using my Samsung 151 tuner (call it 90% there).
Scaling of nonamamorphic DVDs is good, but the best I've seen is my Malata N996 (which I no longer use and is going into storage today). The Malatas X-Y scaling is superb, a feature I wish was standard on all DVD players. I would still recommend one of the Malatas with X-Y scaling to anyone who does not have a HD-capable display and 4:3 set. The Malata will also make anamorphic discs look anamorphic on these sets by using squeeze with X-Y scaling and setting the Malata to 16:9 output. It is rather amazing what it can do for older TVs.
The ringing/right side ghosting is still present, the upgrades have done nothing to improve that. But I sit far enough back from my 53" RPTV that I can't see it until I walk closer to the set.
Deinterlacing is also, obviously, not improved by these upgrades, and you're right, there is room for improvement when comparing to my iScan Ultra that uses the SiI504 chip, which is considered the best deinterlacer available along with the Faroudja chips.
Fortunately I'm not oversensitive to these flaws and can live with them. However, I have a new iScan HD (also SiI504 based and has scaling) on order that will scale to 1080i and I'm hoping this solves the deinterlacing problems.
Needless to say, the LiteOn is now my standard player, nothing else even comes close. Before the upgrades I did, I would say that the LiteOn was still my number one player, but not that far above my combination of Pioneer Elite DV-37 used with the iScan Ultra for deinterlacing.
Omikron
02-21-04, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by CJayB
Scaling of nonamamorphic DVDs is good, but the best I've seen is my Malata N996 (which I no longer use and is going into storage today). The Malatas X-Y scaling is superb, a feature I wish was standard on all DVD players. I would still recommend one of the Malatas with X-Y scaling to anyone who does not have a HD-capable display and 4:3 set. The Malata will also make anamorphic discs look anamorphic on these sets by using squeeze with X-Y scaling and setting the Malata to 16:9 output. It is rather amazing what it can do for older TVs.
Are you saying LiteOn LVD-2001 can do X-Y scaling (squeeze and widening) on nonamnamorphic DVDs? Do you have to set the TV output to 4:3 or 16:9?
I use {img]....{/img] to paste my pictures. You must host your images somewhere first (or in my case I use right mouse click and properties to copy the image link into my {img]....{/img]).
My LiteON LVD-2001 has the same black plastic drive cage. Inside the drive cage is the DVD drive. My DVD loader said LTD166 and not LTD163 like most other people. I guess mine is a newer version as LTD166 is a better loader with faster loading speed and more reliable to boot. Noise wise it's still pretty noisy compared to my STB JVC DVD players. I compared mine to Panny RP62 480p (same DCDi but worst MPEG2 decoder than XP50 and RP62 has CSS turned on--may cause flickering reds but I never noticed on my setup), and 1080i component kicks RP62's 480p's booty (on my setup of 96" LT150 and to my eyes) on blockbuster, film-based tittles. Video tittles though RP62 excels due to DCDi.
Originally posted by Omikron
Are you saying LiteOn LVD-2001 can do X-Y scaling (squeeze and widening) on nonamnamorphic DVDs? Do you have to set the TV output to 4:3 or 16:9?
Maybe this explaination of what the LiteOn/Norcent does will answer your question.
The player can take a non-anamorphic widescreen title, let's say Dazed and Confused, and it will put black bars on the sides in addition to showing the encoded top and bottom bars (1.85:1 movie). Now, you hit the Zoom button, and all four bars go away. It can also take an anamorphic 2.35:1 title, like Star Wars Episode II and by hitting Zoom, you will blow it up to crop off the top/bottom bars and some of the sides too. In both cases it keeps the proper aspect ratio, i.e. no stretching or distortion. A feature similar to the Panasonic RP-91, but better IMO.
CJayB,
I may have to get after some of those upgrades if it improves gamma. As far as the color goes, well it looks fine, but doing an A/B comparision to my XP50 on Episode II, I could make out more vibrant colors on the costumes, etc. Remember though, my set was optimized to the exact color output of the Panny players. I'm sure the colorspace of the Norcent is different and a calibration with measuring tools would bring out all it's glory.
Originally posted by Huey
My LiteON LVD-2001 has the same black plastic drive cage. Inside the drive cage is the DVD drive. My DVD loader said LTD166 and not LTD163 like most other people.
How hard is it for me to take the loader out of the black cage?
Omikron
02-21-04, 05:59 PM
Originally posted by Sam Scamardo
The player can take a non-anamorphic widescreen title, let's say [B]Dazed and Confused, and it will put black bars on the sides in addition to showing the encoded top and bottom bars (1.85:1 movie). Now, you hit the Zoom button, and all four bars go away. It can also take an anamorphic 2.35:1 title, like Star Wars Episode II and by hitting Zoom, you will blow it up to crop off the top/bottom bars and some of the sides too. In both cases it keeps the proper aspect ratio, i.e. no stretching or distortion. A feature similar to the Panasonic RP-91, but better IMO.
I believe we have discussed this before. Putting black bars on all four sides of screen and then zoom-in is not a real X-Y scaling. I heard the margins will get cropped a bit depending on the aspect ration of the material. I don't know how the X-Y scaling on RP-91 would look alike, but like I mentioned before, LiteOn LVD-2001 can do true X-Y scaling with VCDs(MPEG1) and DivX(MPEG4) by using ZOOM button and then the directional keys.
Originally posted by Omikron
I believe we have discussed this before. Putting black bars on all four sides of screen and then zoom-in is not a real X-Y scaling. I heard the margins will get cropped a bit depending on the aspect ration of the material. I don't know how the X-Y scaling on RP-91 would look alike, but like I mentioned before, LiteOn LVD-2001 can do true X-Y scaling with VCDs(MPEG1) and DivX(MPEG4) by using ZOOM button and then the directional keys.
OK. I didn't think I understood what you were asking, but I took my best shot. The player's Zoom function works fine by me. I'm not sure what else true X-Y scaling would get me, but I'm curious to know. I'm just happy it makes my non-anamophic and 4:3 titles look good, b/c I have no aspect ratio control at 1080i.
On the loader side:
I popped opend the black load cage, an there was nothing there but the disc tray and laser assembly. I looked underneath and everything. I didn't see any designations on it besides a medium size chip under the laser assembly that has a big "M" logo and MT1358E.
On the firmware side:
Where is the firmware for this thing stored? If you replace the loader does the firmware go to? Or the firmware is in the 8500 chip and recognizes a new loader?
No, I'm saying that the LiteOn/Norcent does not have X-Y scaling, only the Malatas (and 1 or 2 other players, the names escape me right now) have this feature. The Malata will do a sort of pseudo-squeeze that gives you very near anamorphic quality on a 4:3 set even without a squeeze mode in the set. In other words, even with a 4:3 set with no anamorphic squeeze mode, you can properly display an anamorphic DVD on the display by setting the Malata to output as if your display is 16:9 and then using the Malata to do the squeeze. It's a neat little trick, but is not needed if you already have a 16:9 display, or if your display is 4:3 with a 16:9 squeeze mode (which is what I now have and why my Malata went into storage today).
Originally posted by Huey
I have 2 PCMCIA cards with my LiteON LVD-2001 and my DVD loader is actually a 166 in a black plastic drive cage (original--I did not swap any loaders) and not 163 like most other LiteON LVD-2001's.
Huey,
When I open the black plastic drive cage, there's just the tray motor and pickup assembly. Nothing resembling the Liteon loaders pictured.
How can you tell it's a Liteon 166 drive? Does it look just like the 163 drive with metal enclosure?
Omikron
02-21-04, 10:51 PM
Sam Scamardo and CJayB:
I guess the best way to demonstrate the X-Y scaling on LVD-2001 is for you to try a VCD or DivX movie on it yourself. When you press the ZOOM button, the picture won't zoom in. It will only say something like 'zoom on'. Then you have to press the directional keys up-down to adjust the Y-axis and keys left-right to adjust the X-axis. BTW, I am using LVD-2001 on an interlaced 4:3 TV set.
My black drive cage has LTD-166 label on it on the outside. I did not open the black drive cage. I just assume it's inside. Sorry if I misled you as it was unintentional. Since I had no plans of upgrading this already decent loader, I never opened the black drive cage to confirm if there is a silver metal drive inside. I do know that if you need to swap loader then you can take this black drive cage drive out and put in a silver metal one like pictured. They are both PC ready but the black drive cage one may just be designed this way to fit perfect in the DVD case. If you do swap loader, the new one may require some region free setting on the PC and some foam tape to make it fit perfect. The front door pops off on both the DVD player and the new DVD drive, and you can swap the front doors to make it look factory fit on the outside. The firmware is NOT on the DVD drive so don't worry if you have to switch loaders. Not any loader will work mind you. Only certain ones as were tested by others (LiteON 166, Toshiba, etc.). There is a list of these loaders somewhere with a link listed on this forum.
Omikron,
I don't have any DivX movies, but I will try a VCD later and report back.
Huey, so does your drive look like the one in the picture that chengka posted on the last page? If so, you should pop that black lid off and see what it looks like. Hey, if I can do, I promise you it's easy! That would help us confirm what loader is in the Norcent players.
My loader looks identical to the one picture (black plastic drive cage) but a lot of the oriental players do also (Daewoo, Apex, etc.) Mine howerver has a LTD-166 silver sticker (similar to the LTD-163 sticker on the silver, metal PC DVD drive shown above) clearly on top of the black box where Chengka's white sticker is. I can't read his sticker as it's too small but I don't think that this is LTD-166. It's most likely a Fuss Audio drive which can be less reliable, slower to load discs, etc as this is what's found in other Sigma players (Bravo, Momitsu, Yakamwa, DreamX, Mecotek, etc.) This DVD drive looks as generic as it gets to me. Here is a list of compatible loaders that have been tested on Bravo which should work here also:
http://www.duke.edu/~java32/bravo/bravohacking.html
Edit: I found this picture of a Fuss Audio DV9929B (same one in Momitsu and Bravo) in the Norcent DP215 and it does not look like Chengka's so the loader is still a mystery on this Norcent 501. Here is the DP215's Fuss Audio's loader image: http://photos.yahoo.com/swhui
Huey,
The white sticker on mine (and chengka's) just has a serial number and a bar code.
One way to be for sure that the Norcent loader is a LTD-166 is if you can pop the top on your loader. Should be easy, just 4 screws + two for the metal bar across the top. If you see the medium size chip easily visible under the laser that has a big "M" logo and MT1358E written on it, we'll know they're the same. I've never even taken apart a DVD player before, but I checked this out today with no problems.
Or you could email or call Norcent tech support. I'm done with crack in it open just for curiosity. The sticker on the outside should tell you the DVD brand, model, and drive. Not sure why your loader has a generic-white-serial number-only sticker. Have you done a google search on the serial number yet? Maybe it is LTD166 in an OEM version (brand name stripped). Besides if it's working fine why worry about changing loader? Just give it sometime. If your loader start crapping out then let's worry about it then. Here is their email for support: support@norcent.net and other contact information:
Norcent Technology Inc.
550 Cliffside Drive
San Dimas, CA 91773
Tech Support: (909)305-2121
Tech: support@norcent.net
Info: info@norcent.net
Sales: sales@norcent.net
Warranty: warranty@norcent.net
Rebates: rebates@norcent.net
Fax: 909-305-8816
.
Hi guys! Bear with me. I am not too computer savvy. Can somebody give me explicit instructions how to download a firmware or direct me to a website. I am contemplating Norcent player pending successful firmware download. Would I be missing anything if I just keep using the player with original firmware? Thanks.
vinodk
See previous posts here for details, but in short, with the 2.27 firmware that comes with the Norcent, you would be missing a little. The 3.01b firmware will give you improvements. However, the Norcent with 2.27 firmware will still give you a great picture if you don't want to mess with a firmware upgrade. Also where you can download the 2.29 or 3.01b firmware is in previous posts here. Go back a page or two.
I received a private email from someone asking about improvements with the LiteOn with the IDE cable upgrade, so I thought I would share the comments I made in reply with everyone for those contemplating replacing the stock IDE cable in these units:
I am not exaggerating in my posts regarding this issue. Using either an IOSS Gladiator IDE cable (available online), or a Cobra IDE cable (I've used both, having now upgraded 4 DVD players for myself and friends) available at CompUSA and some larger Circuit City stores for $15, you will see a big improvement with both color and detail. Note though that even out of the box, the LiteOn may have more detail than you think.
The fact is, at 1080i, edges will be more rounded and at first until your eyes get used to it, the image may appear soft because of that rounding of edges, but once you get used to it you will notice not only much better color, but more detail within the image. You have to adjust your eye from the 480P world to a 1080i world. But without a doubt you should do a cable upgrade. It's easy to do. The only problem is that with either of these two cables you have to either burn out (using a paperclip) or drill out using a 1/16" drill bit the plug at the board end of the cable (you do not have to remove the plug at the loader end of the cable).
A further note, you can obtain round shielded IDE cables with the plugs already removed, but the quality of the cables I have seen is not as good as the cables I mention here.
Also note that only the IOSS Gladiator cable is available in an 8" length, which is the length of the original IDE cable that comes with the LiteOn. Performance will not be affected by longer lengths, but the 8" length fits the best. And make sure to attach the grounding cable to the case. Don't know if grouding actually helps, but it's there, so you might as well install the cable to manufacturer's specifications.
John Sterling over at the Home Theater Forum in the very long LiteOn thread over there, has done a great job of documenting with pictures how to do the IDE cable upgrade with one of the Cobra cables.
Huey, maybe I will email Norcent just for curiousity. It's definitely not a Fuss loader, and it seems very stable. Read CD-Rs, DVD-R/RW all with not difficulities. So far, 100%
CJayB,
I think I will replace my IDE cable today, can you provide a link to the instructions on HTF? I know it's in that 22 page thread, but have no idea where.
John posted this link on page 20 of the thread over at HTForum, I don't think he'll mind me posting it here:
http://tuckercentral.nventure.com/2001.html
The link still works.
The comments regarding cable upgrades by myself and John and others are all around pages 19 and 20 of the thread.
Thanks CJayb!
Whatever drive Tucker has in his LiteOn looks to be the exact same as what's in my Norcent. Is that the LTD-166?
Guys I am having second thoughts on the Norcent purchase. I have a (cheap) Infocus X1 projector with dlp chip but no DVI. For the whole last month I was looking for a dvd player that will justify my purchase over existing interlace Toshiba 2200 (1999 model). I gave up on Denon 1600 since the last two units (not new) behaved badly in my setup (I think the ones still left in store are lemons). So, I purchased (although haven't received)
1) Philips Q50AT new and
2) Norcent (LiteOn clone) new
and I am still under the price point that I was willing to pay for Denon 1600. I don't care about dvd-a.
Do you guys think that I will be able to benefit from any/both of these?
Sorry for this distraction.
kosha,
I suppose it depends on your priorities. Do you need multi-region or PAL playback? Norcent is great for this.
Watch a lot of video-based material or TV-based DVDs? Panasonic XP30 or Denon will do better.
I can definitely watch multi-region playback in Philips Q50 using remote hack. I watch a lot of video based material through X1's interlace connection (Faroudja chip) as well.
The main reason that I am after Philips Q50 is because Faroudja is used with 480p. I am after Norcent because it has 720p and 1080i. I am not sure how X1 will handle 720p or 1080i. I need the MPEG-4 support as well since I will be watching movies in that format.
The hard fact is that I am not sure which one is a keeper, Q50 or Norcent.
Huey, you had a X1, right?
Originally posted by CJayB
And make sure to attach the grounding cable to the case. Don't know if grouding actually helps, but it's there, so you might as well install the cable to manufacturer's specifications.
Well, if it's having any real effect, the grounding is probably the main reason why. Shielded cables are relatively useless unless that shield is grounded.
I only mention the grounding because at HTForum someone mentioned that he didn't see a difference grounded or not grounded. I have only tried it grounded myself so can't comment trying it without grounding. I did originally try a cheaper shielded round IDE cable that did not have a ground strap and it performed much worse than the two cables I am recommending, but I think that other cable was not nearly as well shielded besides not having the grounding.
fishhead65
02-22-04, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by kosha
I can definitely watch multi-region playback in Philips Q50 using remote hack. I watch a lot of video based material through X1's interlace connection (Faroudja chip) as well.
The main reason that I am after Philips Q50 is because Faroudja is used with 480p. I am after Norcent because it has 720p and 1080i. I am not sure how X1 will handle 720p or 1080i. I need the MPEG-4 support as well since I will be watching movies in that format.
The hard fact is that I am not sure which one is a keeper, Q50 or Norcent.
Huey, you had a X1, right?
Kosha,
I just got the Norcent and I am using it on my X1 through the VGA input to use the 1080i. So far I love the picture with the DVD's I've watched (LOTR, ET and Freaky Friday with thekids).
The 1080i is worth it, however the player is not as well built as my JVC and does not have alot of the features that the JVC has (gamma control, sharpness, etc., plus the remote is flimsy compared to the JVC. But I'm very satisfied with the PQ on the X1. I will try the IDE cable upgrade to see if it gets better. Certainly couldn't hurt.
CJayB, what drive do you have in your LiteOn? The silver cased variety or the black plastic case like pictured on the tuckercentral site?
Black plastic case. I bought one of the other LiteOn drives after hearing someone say it would work better but haven't bothered to install it since I have not had any major problems with the standard drive. I have a couple times had to open the tray and reload a DVD to get it to play and twice had to first unplug the unit to get it to play, but since I've loaded probably 300 DVDs on my LiteOn, the few minor problems have not been enough to worry about. I also have not once had a problem with a DVD loading after I started to push every DVD I now load to the back center of the tray (there is a very small amount of play that allows this). May just be coincidence, but this works for me.
I also grounded the metal plate on top of the loader clamping mechanism to a case screw when doing the other upgrades with shielding and the new IDE cable. I used sorbothane to dampen the drive and the case.
i am really interested with this dvd player but i am wondering if this will be a big leap in terms of pq from my current dvd player(panny xp 30)viewed on mitsu 65 rptv?i am really impressed whenever i watch movies(recently released) fed via hd ota. will i expect pq closer to that quality from this dvd player or from these dvd player that upscale to 1080i via component video?any reply would be highly appreciated!
absolutic
02-23-04, 12:01 AM
jund - i can tell you that the 1080i picture over my Liteon 2001 is just DIFFERENT I don't know if it is better or worse than your 480p picture but it is sure DIFFERENT. I use it on all the movies because I get deeper blacks and more "Movie-screen"- like picture. When you change it to 480p you get more "video-quality" picture. Some programming I like to use 480p (for example, the new WING MIGRATION dvd) some better on 1080i, for example, the Gladiator. The bottom line is that it is nice to have a choice. You can easily switch between 480p and 1080i via p-scan button in less than 2 seconds and you can switch back and forth many times to figure out which picture you like for each particular movie...
jund,
I would imagine I'm fairly qualified to answer your question, as I own a 55" RPTV Mitsubishi and Panasonic XP50 (just like your XP30). I'll repost my comments from earlier in this thread:
Good
1) Norcent seems very reliable/sturdy with V301b firmware, no glitching.
2) Menu and DVD navigation is quick, faster than XP50
3) Scaling of non-anamophic film DVDs is excellent, even better than the RP-91, and much better than the internal zoom of my TV. Big plus for me here.
4) Plays everything under the sun. Region/macrovision-free!
5) Remote is not so bad, I wish the Zoom button was not under the sliding cover, though.
6) Movies at 1080i have a very fluid, almost 3D look to them. Definitely looks more "progressive-scan" than 480p.
Not-so-good
1) PQ is marginal at the default settings. I increased brightness to +1 to get approximately the same brightness as the XP50.
2) Gamma is only so-so comparted to XP50, see above.
3) Colors seem to be a little flat. I experimented with the Saturation control, but the only way to truely get it right would be with video test equipment. Potential for improvement here.
4) Ringing is minor, but still visible on some objects. Seems to exaggerate ringing in the transfer.
5) Deinterlacer is not so hot, I'm spoiled by the Faroudja chips.
6) Bad edit detection is pretty rotten, worse than RP-91 with V259 and Auto3 setting.
So to answer your question, "if this will be a big leap in terms of pq from my current dvd player(panny xp 30)", I would have to say no. Good DVD player, yes. But not enough to ditch the XP30 for your set-up.
fishhead65
02-23-04, 08:31 AM
Originally posted by CJayB
John posted this link on page 20 of the thread over at HTForum, I don't think he'll mind me posting it here:
http://tuckercentral.nventure.com/2001.html
The link still works.
The comments regarding cable upgrades by myself and John and others are all around pages 19 and 20 of the thread.
CJayb,
On the IDE cable upgrade, the link you posted , he says "remove cable between the player and board" but then the ground wire is on the other cable. I'm not to familiar with these cables. Can you indicate which cable is the one to change, it looks like there are 2 cables there.
thanks
Also, woruld this work?
http://www.circuitcity.com/detail.jsp?c=1&b=g&qp=0&bookmark=bookmark_0&oid=70276&catoid=-11241
You need to replace the 8" cable at the back of the case. The other short IDE cable is for the memory card reader at the front of the player.
The Circuit City cable you link to is the right cable. Either this cable or an IOSS Gladiator will work great. The Circuit City Cable is the cable that John used and is shown in his pictures.
The connector end of the cable that attaches to the main circuit board is the end where you need to remove the plastic plug by either burning it out with a paperclip or drill out with a 1/16" drill bit. You can use a pair of pliers to hold the connector securely when removing the plug. I used a drill bit myself to drill out the plug, finding it harder to heat a paperclip to melt it.
chengka
02-23-04, 09:31 AM
Fishhead,
Yes that would work. I have seen an post somewhere comparing that CC cable to the Gladiator and the results were very similar. Having said that, I ordered the 8" Gladiator from here http://www.paragonca.com/rd3xpgladiator.html on Wednesday and it was I received it Saturday.
ewclam9
02-23-04, 05:22 PM
Which one is better ?
MOMITSU V880 vs Norcent DP-501M
These two players are MV/Region free. The only difference is V880 has DVI with 1080i output without MV.
Could someone who own both of the above units tell me which one is better in PQ ? I have a PTL-300U projector. Does the DVI on the V880 gives a better PQ over component ? The 300U does not take 1080i on DVI, so I am not sure if it is still better than the component in 1080i mode.
Thanks in advance.
Does the new norcent player still has subtitle jitter (noise) at 1080i?
It seemed like Liteon LVD-2001 had a few player+display combo that showed this behavior (including mine).
I would stick with the IOSS cable as 1) 8" is a much nicer fit than 26" of the Cobra, 2) having 2 IDE connector instead of 3 is nice as it has 1 less connection for signal degradation, 3) length does matter :D with shorter being better (less signal degradation), 4) IOSS has been touted the best by many review sites with IDE data transfer rates, 5) $18 shipped without tax is reasonable compared to $15+tax at Circuit City. For me, IOSS cable and power plant/cable shielding did not change an already great image. Right sided EE was still there on some scenes at closer distances (< 1 screen width distance). Others have notice an improvement so I did it as it was very easy, relatively cheap, and I wanted to see for myself if it would help. I have no regrets upgrading to this cable as it should improve reliability and smoothness of pans due to better, faster, more efficient data transfer rate not to mention improving air flow in the case.
I own an XGA DLP: NEC LT150 which has a crappy scaler (X1 is much better with DCDi builtin and SVGA is closer to 720x480p than XGA, and thus may not see as much of an improvement on 1080i vs. DCDi 480p from Q50/XP30/XP50/RP62 as my LT150) and for me it's a noticeable improvement compared to my Panny RP62 with DCDi at 480p. Only my Radeon/Sonic HTPC at XGA output beats my LiteON LVD-2001 @1080i via component.
The black drive shown on the picture at tuckercentral is identical to my drive in my LiteON LVD-2001's loader which is indeed LTD-166 (see the silver sticker with brown tape over part of it?). Thus, I'm unsure why Norcent's drive has no brand or model name to its loader. I suspect that it IS the LTD-166 and they removed the silver sticker as it's an OEM version which can be bought cheaper than the name brand LTD-166.
Originally posted by iori
Does the new norcent player still has subtitle jitter (noise) at 1080i?
It seemed like Liteon LVD-2001 had a few player+display combo that showed this behavior (including mine).
Yeah, my Norcent/LiteOn has this problem. It seems to happen with player generated subtitles like those in SW Ep II when the aliens are talking. More of an annoyance than a peeve in my book.
Huey,
The black drive shown on the picture at tuckercentral is identical to my drive in my LiteON LVD-2001's loader which is indeed LTD-166 (see the silver sticker with brown tape over part of it?). Thus, I'm unsure why Norcent's drive has no brand or model name to its loader. I suspect that it IS the LTD-166 and they removed the silver sticker as it's an OEM version which can be bought cheaper than the name brand LTD-166.
I think you are correct, the Norcent comes w/ LTD-166. They probably take the stickers off because they don't want folks to know it's a LiteOn, I'm sure LiteOn charges a premium to sell it just like they offer in their players or drives. I do a similar type of thing where I work.
I finally got the Norcent loader to lock up last night. To be fair, I was really abusing it. I downloaded a test DivX disc that has every imaginable .avi/DivX/MP4 file on it. The Norcent did well, playing at least 75% of the stuff on the disc, but quickly navigating around lots of different formats locked it up. No surprise there. Otherwise, it's been perfect!
DivX can lock up any of these MPEG4 players as it vary so much from source, encoding, burning, CD-R or DVD-R quality, etc. Firmware 301b allows more stable DivX and smoother FF/REW on DivX. For the money and if you can't use DVI, this player can't be beat.
chengka
02-24-04, 10:44 AM
So far so good with my Norcent.
I think their may be an issue with loading, if I don't power on before I open the drawer. A new Shrek and a Netflix Open Range both skipped and almost wouldn't play until I reloaded the dvd.
My only real complaint is that the responsiveness to the remote is atrocious. Does anyone know if the problem is in the "power" of the remote, or the receptor? Has anyone switched to a universal for their Liteon with better results? I have to check if Harmony has the LVD2001 in their database.
Huey,
DivX can lock up any of these MPEG4 players as it vary so much from source, encoding, burning, CD-R or DVD-R quality, etc.
Hmmm. I was not aware of that.
chengka,
think their may be an issue with loading, if I don't power on before I open the drawer. A new Shrek and a Netflix Open Range both skipped and almost wouldn't play until I reloaded the dvd.
What loader do you have? Black plastic case, i.e. LTD-166?
I was wondering whether anyone tried flashing LiteOn LVD-2001 firmware on LiteOn LVD-2002 machines. Is it a fact that 2002 units do not have scaling chip from sigma design inside?
Omikron
02-24-04, 01:35 PM
Anyone of you got the problem of sound drop when playing Audio CDs with LVD-2001 or DP-501M? I get this problem almost everytime when playing audio CDs from beginning continuously until 9~11 tracks, where a long silence would occur. If I rewind to beginning of the same track and playback again, then there would be no problem. This problem occured mostly with music CD-Rs. Could it because of bad drive transport or build-up of EM interference?
Anyone with a new Norcent try the hold stop and unplug technique with an unaltered LiteOn 3.01b firmware to see if it works? I just got mine today and am about to give it a try.
Parja,
I doubt it will work. Let us know what you find out. I'd try the Norcent->Liteon 301b first, then you'll have to use the Stop method to get to pure 301b,
Originally posted by Sam Scamardo
Parja,
I doubt it will work. Let us know what you find out. I'd try the Norcent->Liteon 301b first, then you'll have to use the Stop method to get to pure 301b,
Well, just did it. Stop method will work to take you straight to LiteOn 3.01b. Woohoo! Appears the stop method must call up a low level foolproof bios that ignores manufacturer code and such when performing the firmware flash.
Anyway, I don't have my HD-ready TV yet, but tried it out the MPEG and DivX abilities on my roommate's 27". We threw all sorts of music videos, TV show rips, etc. at it and it kicked butt all over 'em. They looked really good and we only had a few errors with them which were all quickly cleared by ejecting the tray and reloading the disc.
So far so good!
TheHead
02-24-04, 08:22 PM
This seems to be the player I'm looking for, for HD output and DivX support.
Now the question:
Does anyone know of a Canadian source for this player or any of these based on this chipset?
I've checked provantage - and while they will ship to Canada - they want 50 Bucks US for shipping. Ugh.
The other links that have been provided all seem to be 'ship to US' only.
Anyone that can help a n00b out? Much appreciated.
Thanks!
:)
TheHead
Originally posted by Parja
Well, just did it. Stop method will work to take you straight to LiteOn 3.01b. Woohoo! Appears the stop method must call up a low level foolproof bios that ignores manufacturer code and such when performing the firmware flash.
Hey that is great! My buddy is going to get one of these, now we know an easier way to get to the LiteOn firmware.
mmadlang
02-24-04, 11:13 PM
Many thanks to you guys. I got my Norcent updated to the 3.01b firmware and YES, there is a difference in PQ and 2.27 that it ships with. I'm currently running it in 1080i into my component to VGA adapter and then into my X1. With an 81a warming filter and the X1(actually Screenplay 4800, since I changed the firmware) calibrated with DVE, Im getting a wonderful picture. The Norcent is worth the money for those of you still deciding whether or not you are going to purchase it.
Apostate
02-25-04, 04:26 AM
- kosha
I asked the same question a while back and the response I believe I got was that it has been answered before, to put it diplomatically. The actual answer was "Here we go again" to paraphrase. I tried searching the forum and the best answer I saw was that the 2002 had the latest firmware and will not let you backtrack to the older 2001 firmware if I understood the message correctly.
It is my understanding that 2001 and 2002 are pretty much the same hardware-wise. I don't see why deleting the firmware (using button combination and pulling the power plug method, I think) in 2002 and inserting 2001 firmware will not work. I do not have either player so it is purely speculation on my part.
- mmadlang
What DVD player did you have before? The theory most prevalent in here is that upconverting to 1080i and downconverting to X1 resolution will not be better, more likely worse than feeding X1 a good 480p signal from a quality DVD player such XP30. Is your picture better than the one from your previous DVD player?
I received my Norcent yesterday. The picture is not impressive at all right out of the box. Worse than my current setup (interlaced Toshiba SD-2200 connected to X1 throught component-svideo). I have not yet upgraded to the newest firmware. I don't want to ruin my chances of returning the Norcent to Computers4sure for refund.
I am waiting for the Philips Q50 to show up (Thursday). The downside is that Q50 does not have MPEG-4 support.
fishhead65
02-25-04, 09:43 AM
Originally posted by kosha
I received my Norcent yesterday. The picture is not impressive at all right out of the box. Worse than my current setup (interlaced Toshiba SD-2200 connected to X1 throught component-svideo). I have not yet upgraded to the newest firmware. I don't want to ruin my chances of returning the Norcent to Computers4sure for refund.
I am waiting for the Philips Q50 to show up (Thursday). The downside is that Q50 does not have MPEG-4 support.
Kosha,
How do you have it set up with your X1? I like the the 1080i into my X1.
fishhead65,
You are right. 1080i is probably the best even with the supplied firmware. I tried all possible combinations. However, I think the picture is heavily cropped in the progressive mode. Am I not right?
I should not complain since I am not using the most recent firmware. However, one of my disks froze in interlace mode with Norcent when it played flawlessly in my existing machine. However, it corrected itself (I didn't need to plug it off).
--Kosha
mmadlang
02-25-04, 01:21 PM
What DVD player did you have before? The theory most prevalent in here is that upconverting to 1080i and downconverting to X1 resolution will not be better, more likely worse than feeding X1 a good 480p signal from a quality DVD player such XP30. Is your picture better than the one from your previous DVD player?
Picture is better than what I was using mainly because I was using 2 crappy DVD players. 1 old interlaced Memorex player that did actually give me a good pic through 480i into the x1(because of the de-interlacer in the X1 I'm sure). The other DVD player Iwas using was also crap. Polaroid 300B. That one was progressive and I fed the progressive picture into the VGA of the X1. That was an ok pic...probably comparable to the Memorex using 480i. I've never had a DVD player with good a de-interlacer like the XP30, RP-82 etc. So I don't know how much better it could be. Between 480P and 1080i with the Norcent...the 1080i just looks better. Don't know why, but it does. I figured I would go with the Norcent over an XP-30 off eBay cause it was cheaper and when I upgrade the projector in the summer, maybe I could take full advantage of the 1080i with a higher res. projector.
Well, I took the loader out of mine and peeked around for any hint of who the manufacturer might be. On one of the circuit boards was a marking something like "LTD-165/LTD-166". Appears to be a LiteOn loader.
Originally posted by Parja
Well, I took the loader out of mine and peeked around for any hint of who the manufacturer might be. On one of the circuit boards was a marking something like "LTD-165/LTD-166". Appears to be a LiteOn loader.
Thanks for confirming this Parja.
Supposedly the LTD-166 can read DVD-RAM. Can anyone verify this?
I tried pal region 5 disks on Norcent. The quality of playback is excellent even at 576i.
StevenL
02-26-04, 09:51 AM
Well, I got my Norcent yesterday and loaded 3.01b firmware, loaded fine but can't read the menu anymore, perhaps it was corrupted...
Anyway, got into the 'secret menu' and set my player to 0 region and turn the Microvision Enabled off.
I can't watch any dvds in 1080i mode. Am I missing something here?
Do I need to set my TV to NTSC somewhere?
Any help would be appreciated, thanks in advance,
Steven
Check the 'bailout procedure' to reload the original 3.01b firmware described in earlier responses of this thread.
I have a Infocus X1 projector. It only allows 1080i through component-VGA conection. Please check your display manual. You should be able to press pscan button (a few times) in your remote to get 1080i.
StevenL
02-26-04, 01:21 PM
Thanks for the help. I only have one input for 1080i on my Mitsu and it is being used for DTV........ I hooked it up anyway and it is working now.
I need to adjust my eyes for 1080i mode but so far so good. I like to say that picture is little better than my Panny 55S but no 'wow' factor.
My problem of having only one input for 1080i will continue unless I buy a new TV?!?! Yeah, my wife will understand......TV's only 2 1/2 years old.
Any suggestions?
Kenni_o
02-26-04, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by StevenL
Thanks for the help. I only have one input for 1080i on my Mitsu and it is being used for DTV........ I hooked it up anyway and it is working now.
I need to adjust my eyes for 1080i mode but so far so good. I like to say that picture is little better than my Panny 55S but no 'wow' factor.
My problem of having only one input for 1080i will continue unless I buy a new TV?!?! Yeah, my wife will understand......TV's only 2 1/2 years old.
Any suggestions?
StevenL - here is a solution for your connection problems. Instead of buying a new TV just get a HD component switcher ($89 http://www.svideo.com/com3.html).
Steven,
I'm looking for a switch myself, and after searching the forums, the best quality per buck seems to be this one:
http://www.inday.com/rgb4x/rgb4x.htm
This one might do and has optical audio too, but the signal is not as clean:
http://www.audioauthority.com/aacconsumers/1154c5577.html
lo
I will second locomo's recommendation of the Inday switcher. I've been doing research on them for 2 weeks and about decided on this one. There's another nice one by Zektor, but it's twice as much. If you don't need digital audio switching, the Inday should be great.
nicknor22
02-26-04, 06:27 PM
Hi,
Im also looking to take the plunge into the Norcent player. I really want to check out the upscale to 1080i feature, but want to know how much better would the picture quality actually be. Right now I currently have a Sony DVD player model DVP-NS700P, with component to my Panasonic CT-34WX50 widescreen tv. This tv does not have the 720p option so i cant try that. But I have also just read that Sony is going to put out their first upscale dvd player supposedly in Aug. But i have a question about that player as well. What does this mean "The up-scaling process occurs through the 19-pin HDMI connection" I have no idea what that is so if someone can please clear that up for me please, for I am a newb.
Thanks,
Nick
AkronGuy
02-26-04, 07:38 PM
Google is your friend:
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/article/0,,2076_4129_20798291,00.html
The Norcent, on the other hand, puts out 720p and 1080i on the component video RCA connectors.
Originally posted by Nathan_R
Sam, this the exact thing I had to do. I had a pure LiteOn 3.01 firmware (no tampering) that I used to reflash it once the garbled text showed up.
I don't know if that is a matter of me doing something wrong with the firmware editing or if it's just a side effect of of the editing process.
Could someone else please try the flash.fuf modification and see if you can get a better NRG image? I can host it if needed.
Alternately, has anyone tried the "bailout procedure" alone to flash the pure LiteOn firmware? Maybe we don't need to edit the files at all by going that route.
On a side note, I'm under the impression that the tray in the Norcent is sturdier than the Liteon's. Anyone else think so?
Best regards,
Hello, this is my first post here.
My Norcent just came last night. Thanks for all of your expeditions. I got 1080i to show up on my Mits 65813 TV. The picture is definately "softer" or "fuzzier" compared to my also new Toshiba SD-4900 480p, but it's truely a 1080i picture. I must upgrade to 3.01b for a sharper PQ and I have browsed thru all messages on this post regarding this subject. I am not sure I fully understand and confident. I downloaded v0.03.01.nrg from Nathan, but Sam said it's corrupted and need to use the "bail out procedure" to load the "pure Liteon 3.01 firmware". Nathan replied the same experience. I am confused. Should I use v0.03.01 or not? Where is "pure Liteon 3.01 firmware" to download? Should I use the "bail out procedure" to load the new firmware the first time or only if it garbles up text? Can someone help list the exact procedures/actions for us to follow. Thank you all so much.
-- H.S.--
Hi hschen, welcom to AVS.
Here's what you should do:
Download the V301b firmware onto a disc.
Insert into your Norcent.
Before it can load the disc, press and HOLD the stop button on front panel.
While holding, pull the plug.
Wait a few seconds, plug in while holding stop.
Press the play button a few seconds later
The real LiteOn firmware should start loading automatically.
If something doesn't work, you should be OK, just try again.
Originally posted by Sam Scamardo
Hi hschen, welcom to AVS.
Here's what you should do:
Download the V301b firmware onto a disc.
Insert into your Norcent.
Before it can load the disc, press and HOLD the stop button on front panel.
While holding, pull the plug.
Wait a few seconds, plug in while holding stop.
Press the play button a few seconds later
The real LiteOn firmware should start loading automatically.
If something doesn't work, you should be OK, just try again.
Thanks, Sam.
I have downloaded 2 v0.03.01.nrg files. One is dated 11/11/2003 and the other one is from Nathan's Norcent=>LiteOn link dated 2/27/2004. Which one should I use? I thought the one from Nathan's link will garble up text, right?
All I have to do is burn the v0.03.01.nrg to a CD-R using Nero, right?
Sorry for so many questions.
-- H.S.--
Try to use the 11/11 file burned with Nero.
Let us know how it works!
Anyone know if this will play Divx MPEG4 1920x1080 on DVD+/-R ?
I know it's asking for a lot, but if it did I would certainly buy it.
Also does it play MP3 DVD's?
lo
hschen
I have both the LiteOn LVD-2001 (the Norcent is the clone) and a Toshiba SD-4900 in my system (the Toshiba is mainly used for DVD-Audio). Let me tell you that if you are finding the Toshiba at 480P to produce a sharper picture than the LiteOn/Norcent at 1080i, there is more than just a firmware problem. Upgrading the firmware will help substantially, but even the older firmware that comes with the Norcent should produce a sharper picture than the Toshiba. The two players are not even close, with the LiteOn the more detailed. Even before I modified my LiteOn with a new firmware and before upgrading the IDE cable on my LiteOn, the LiteOn had a more detailed picture than the Toshiba.
Make sure you are adjusting the contrast and brightness controls properly in the Norcent. If they are not set properly, the picture will be degraded substantially, even as far as sharpness goes. Black level has a lot to do with perceived sharpness. But also realize what I mentioned in an earlier post, that the LiteOn/Norcent at 1080i will round the edges of images more than most players because of the extra lines of resolution. This does not mean the picture is less sharp, only that edges are rounder and more filmlike.
It might take your eyes awhile to get used to the difference in the image. But the difference is definitely a good thing once you get used to it and get your system properly calibrated for the Norcent. The calibration of your system for the Norcent will likely need to be different than the way it is calibrated for the Toshiba. I get around this by running the LiteOn and Toshiba through different lines on my RPTV so that each line can be calibrated independently.
Nathan_R
02-27-04, 10:40 PM
Yes, just skip that LiteOn->Norcent download and load a pure LiteOn file by following the bailout procedure.
I'm too tired to do it now, but I'm going to remove the LiteOn->Norcent download tomorrow, now that we've established the bailout. :)
Nighty-night.
~~Nathan
deptrai
02-27-04, 11:30 PM
Where can the "pure" LiteOn 3.01b firmware be found? It has been removed from LiteOn's site.
Dave
Originally posted by deptrai
Where can the "pure" LiteOn 3.01b firmware be found? It has been removed from LiteOn's site.
Dave
Try here:
http://www.nbtelectronics.com/files/2001-0301.zip
julius_the_cat
02-28-04, 11:04 PM
using the nbtelectronics site and the hold stop-unplug-replug method, I've upgraded my recently acquired Norcent to Liteon 3.01b. It did take most of an hour three CD burns (the last at 4x) and a lot of button pushing.
the first time resulted in the unreadable menus described before. I had difficulty with subsequent attempts because even while holding the stop button, the CD continued to load and attempt to upgrade.
point is don't panic, just keep trying it will finally "take."
current setups (all the good choices below were a result of advice from members of this forum, the rest I chose)
theatre: panny 75U (XGA) with RP82 and Hughes E86 for DTV and OTA HDTV
kids tV: RCA m36110 thru an iScan Pro (VGA) with three inputs: Hughes GXCEBOT Tivo upgraded to dual 120 GB drives ala Hinsdale, a JVC XV-S500 DVD (480i ouput) and a nintendo something or other. the TV's other VGA input is a Samsung OTA HDTV (SIR-T150 with VGA output.)
family room (spouse's TV): old (at least 10 years) Toshiba with an Sony DTV (SDTV only) receiver and a Sampo something or other DVD
I think I can make a good argument to upgrade with family room to a 50" plasma to use with the new Norcent. Most of the DVD viewing is done in the projector room, but the cheap JVC thru the iScan isn't bad. I would like to watch more DVDs in the family room with my family (makes some sense, I think). I have my eye on the philips 50PF9986 to be released soon; my spouse watches a lot of 4:3 TV and the backlighting thing along with PixelPlus intrigues me. Off topic I know, sorry. Comments?
Originally posted by CJayB
hschen
I have both the LiteOn LVD-2001 (the Norcent is the clone) and a Toshiba SD-4900 in my system (the Toshiba is mainly used for DVD-Audio). Let me tell you that if you are finding the Toshiba at 480P to produce a sharper picture than the LiteOn/Norcent at 1080i, there is more than just a firmware problem. Upgrading the firmware will help substantially, but even the older firmware that comes with the Norcent should produce a sharper picture than the Toshiba. The two players are not even close, with the LiteOn the more detailed. Even before I modified my LiteOn with a new firmware and before upgrading the IDE cable on my LiteOn, the LiteOn had a more detailed picture than the Toshiba.................
.............
I have done several very close comparisons between Norcent (LiteOn) and Toshiba SD-4900 with paused picture. I can clearly see Toshiba's scan lines and Norcent's 1080i scan lines are almost not visible. And, yes, Norcent has a blacker picture. My wife said the Norcent is smoother image. Another finding was that, I think, because of the 1080i resolution, the jagged edge which is visible on a 480p paused image were smooth in 1080i image. Maybe then the DCDi chip is not as required for 1080i player as to the 480p player. One bad thing on 1080i I noticed was the flickering of saturated green color. I am going to return the Toshiba and keep the Norcent.
Has anyone compared LiteOn to Samsung HD931? Since my Mits 65813 has DVI input, I wonder if DVI will improve PQ.
Burned v0.03.01.nrg (pure) using Nero at 24x and tried the STOP&Unplug-Plug-PLAY method several times without success. After press PLAY, the Norcent displays "Reading CD" then displays "ISO Disk" then power itself off. I am sure my procedure was correct. Perhaps the file is not right. When I power the Norcent back up with the v0.03.01.nrg CD inside, the on-screen message says 'ISO disk has no file'. Did I do wrong during burning process? All I did was burning the v0.03.01.nrg file directly to a CD using Nero without finalizing the CD. The computer's CD ROM drive verified the existence of the v0.03.01.nrg file. Why not the Norcent?
Any suggestion?
Thanks.
If you are using Nero Express choose "Disk Image or Saved Project" option to burn the file. Check "creating a disk from a disk image in help index" if you need further help. Update-disk created this way will show upgrade files (not the .nrg file) in the disk. Hope this helps.
TheHead
03-01-04, 05:18 PM
Burned v0.03.01.nrg (pure) using Nero at 24x and tried the STOP&Unplug-Plug-PLAY method several times without success. After press PLAY, the Norcent displays "Reading CD" then displays "ISO Disk" then power itself off. I am sure my procedure was correct. Perhaps the file is not right. When I power the Norcent back up with the v0.03.01.nrg CD inside, the on-screen message says 'ISO disk has no file'. Did I do wrong during burning process? All I did was burning the v0.03.01.nrg file directly to a CD using Nero without finalizing the CD. The computer's CD ROM drive verified the existence of the v0.03.01.nrg file. Why not the Norcent?
Any suggestion?
Thanks.
Sounds as though the nrg file was burned incorrectly as an ISO disk (ie, the CD just has the v0.03.01.nrg file on it and nothing else)
If you are using pure Nero - Open the nrg file through File | Open. This should automatically bring up the Burning dialog and from there you can burn the firmware update CD.
TheHead
Originally posted by TheHead
Sounds as though the nrg file was burned incorrectly as an ISO disk (ie, the CD just has the v0.03.01.nrg file on it and nothing else)
If you are using pure Nero - Open the nrg file through File | Open. This should automatically bring up the Burning dialog and from there you can burn the firmware update CD.
TheHead
You guys must be right. I simply don't know how to burn a .nrg image file. All I did was open up Nero, drag-n-drop the v0.03.01.nrg to the new CD window and select 'Write CD' from File menu. Then Nero did the Smart Burn and that's it. I will check which Nero I have. I thought it's Nero 6.
With Nero 6, I think you pick write data to disk. There's nothing you drag and drop, you can open the file from Nero and it should automatically start going.
Originally posted by Sam Scamardo
With Nero 6, I think you pick write data to disk. There's nothing you drag and drop, you can open the file from Nero and it should automatically start going.
Yes, it works. LiteOn 3.01 burned and loaded. Thanks for your help.
The 3.01 seems not much different from the original 2.27. The setup menu features are the same. I don't see any better picture adjustment capability in 3.01b. Sharper picture, maybe. It's hard to tell.
Eurastus
03-03-04, 03:17 PM
Just ordered one myself from techdepot.com. I'm mostly interested in the MV defeat, region-free, and PAL playback on NTSC as we have numerous European DVDs. 1080i over component is fine as my TV's DVI is currently used by my HDTV receiver; I have an open component connection.
I'll let the group know my experience in dealing with techdepot, the flash upgrade, and eventual use.
Thanks all for the pointer to this player; I was getting rather down after a long and fruitless search for the Lite-On 2001. I'm glad this is the same box.
J.J.R.#4
03-04-04, 01:04 AM
I'm tempted to order this player from computers4sure (great etailer), but would greatly appreciate some feedback.
I have a Benq pb6100, and have been using my shite PS2 player for DVD's thus far. (I can no longer bear to watch all the jaggies from the PS2!!) I don't want to spend a lot for a DVD player, but the Norcent is within tolerable range.
Based on this thread, X1 owners seem to be happy with the 1080i feed. Any thoughts on whether it's worth it to spend money on the Norcent, or should I just go for a good 480p player? For the same money I'd buy the Norcent, but a cheaper 480p would be tempting. (I have some DVD's from Japan, so it would be great to be able to play them. But I've heard that one can find hacks for 480p players as well.)
Thanks in advance!
absolutic
03-04-04, 02:57 AM
JJR, I am just an opposite of you, I got the Liteon LVD2001 (the original version of this Norcent) and I am contemplating buying the Benq pb6100! What a coincedence! :D ;)
fishhead65
03-04-04, 08:47 AM
Originally posted by J.J.R.#4
I'm tempted to order this player from computers4sure (great etailer), but would greatly appreciate some feedback.
I have a Benq pb6100, and have been using my shite PS2 player for DVD's thus far. (I can no longer bear to watch all the jaggies from the PS2!!) I don't want to spend a lot for a DVD player, but the Norcent is within tolerable range.
Based on this thread, X1 owners seem to be happy with the 1080i feed. Any thoughts on whether it's worth it to spend money on the Norcent, or should I just go for a good 480p player? For the same money I'd buy the Norcent, but a cheaper 480p would be tempting. (I have some DVD's from Japan, so it would be great to be able to play them. But I've heard that one can find hacks for 480p players as well.)
Thanks in advance!
I've been happy with the 1080i output to my X1. Although it is not a drastic improvement over a gppd 480p player but it is better with my set-up. You can see there are varied experiences with this player and PQ
J.J.R.#4
03-04-04, 12:35 PM
Thanks for the response, Fishhead (just saw your other thread about this).
Well, so long as it doesn't look WORSE, I'm willing to give it a try. Some have reported noticable improvements with the cabling/shielding mods, and I'm in the mood to experiment.
Plus, the region-free and compact-flash reader are features I would definitely use.
Ron Ricko
03-05-04, 07:34 PM
Norcent arrived today and firmware upgrade "took" on the first try. I have a Samsung TXM3298HF HDTV, 4:3, component (only) inputs. I heartily recommend the Norcent for this type of HDTV....1080i looks terrfific. Replaces a Toshiba SD-4800 DVD player.
Haven't done the mods yet but look forward to it.
Provantage service was excellent. All in all, very pleased.
Eric Samonte
03-10-04, 09:09 PM
One more thing......does anyone know how to change the Liteon splash screen to ur own image? It would be cool to get my own up there when I power on that thing....
chengka
03-10-04, 09:24 PM
The firmware update image contains a file called logo.png. Create your own with the same characteristics and flash it.
720x480 96dpi and 8 bits color depth.
who1zep
03-11-04, 12:14 AM
I am hoping to hear from one more owner regarding the benefits of this Norcent 1080i upconvert DVD player when used with a direct view TV. Specifically I would like anyone's thoughts regarding the benefits on a Sony 36XBR400 with digital reality creation (DRC). This is Sony's first-generation DRC. The DRC already takes a signal and doubles the horizontal and vertical information, which eliminates horizontal scan lines on analog cable, etc. Also the Sony has Hi-Scan, which takes the 4x3 montor and displays all 1080 lines in a letterbox picture -- no scan lines are wasted painting black bars at the top and bottom of the screen). The Sony has 2 sets of component (non-digital) inputs. Will I really get any benefit with the DVD player trying to upconvert at the same time?
I already have a Panasonic DVD-RP61 (there's an "A" in the serial number, meaning it has the Faroudja chip) which cost me ~$75 on ebay. I also have a set of Canare and a set of Dayton component cables. They Sony has been tweaked slightly with Video Essentials, but has never been ISF-calibrated. I never wanted to fork out $200+ for ISF. Heck, that's close to my limit for an OTA HD receiver, which I am considering since turning off the cable HD (more on that below).
Based on earlier posts by Huey, might I expect to only see an improvement on film-based DVDs?
I have the new Anchor Bay Xena DVDs, possibly shot on video, and they look rather bad on the Panny. I have a Music for Monserrat DVD that was shot on video and looks virtually like HD on the Panny. A Bug's Life (CE) is good but Monserrat was better. I know these are not reference DVDs, except maybe A Bug's Life at a retail store.
I have seen HDTV through my cable company. HDNet movies did not look as good as it gets on my TV. ESPN was unworthy for all but Sunday Night Football (I could not stand to watch their stretched upconverts, which the Sony could not show full-screen. The Hi-Scan puts the crunch to everything coming in at 1080i. They may have fixed that with later models). The Olympics, Bravo, and some Discovery HD Theatre stuff was awesome, so I know that if I only get HDNet Movies-quality pictures with the Norcent, I won't be that thrilled. I probably answered my own question with that last comment, but I would appreciate any resident Norcent professors' opinions.
PS: Thanks to CJayB for info on the mods in case I do get this model. This may be my last chance to step-up without buying a new TV with digital inputs for HD-DVD ... unless there's a HD-DVD player in the future with unrestricted component outputs. I'll start the hoping early :rolleyes:
Eurastus
03-11-04, 09:38 AM
I received my Norcent earlier this week and flashed it with LiteOn 3.01 firmware. I have a TV very similar to yours, a Sony KV-34XBR800 (also tweaked with Avia but no pro calibration) and I find that the 1080i is no noticeable improvement over 480i or 480p. I have only watched a few DVD's yet but the 1080i appears just too soft for my tasts. My TV has DRC version 2, I believe. The player is fine for my use; I purchased it for PAL and MPEG4 compatability, not the up-convert.
In fact, my Sony DVP-NE999ES produces a much better picture--of course it cost 5 times as much as the Norcent.
I have a number of OTA HDTV stations in my area and I can tell you the Norcent comes nowhere near the sharpness of either NBC and CBS in 1080i, nor even ABC in 720p.
I don't regret the purchase myself. I can now play PAL DVD's and have told the kids to use the Norcent from now on--I was always nervous about them breaking the nifty CD-tray on the 999.
Hope that helps.
Consultant
03-11-04, 11:31 AM
I've got a Norcent 501 coming. I am unable to clearly discern the consensus on whether it is better to install 2.29 or 3.01b. I've seen reports that 3.01b has bugs and may cause the player to periodically crash (not sprising considering it's a Beta) where others have no complaints.
Is the firmware at the nbtelectronics.com site the "pure" Liteon firmware and not the garbled one?
phitheta219
03-11-04, 12:07 PM
Chengka,
The firmware update image contains a file called logo.png. Create your own with the same characteristics and flash it.
I'm interested in this as well.... can you elaborate on how to do this...
Thanks.
Monte
There are instructions here. (http://sigma-players.nd.e-wro.pl/) Go to "skins" and look at the main logo item. Under it are templates. Incorporating them into firmware is also discuss or tomb2 (owner of that site) can do it for you.
jeff
I may want to return the Norcent and go for Momitsu V880 for 2 reasons. One is to try DVI 1080i for maybe a sharper PQ. Second is for the constant firmware upgrades by Momitsu (sounds fun). However, I have upgraded my new Norcent to 3.01b and the on screen logo became LiteOn instead of the original Norcent. Can I return it in its current state or must I restore its original firmware back? Where can I get the original Norcent firmware 2.27 with Norcent logo?
Anyone has done this before? Comments? opinion?
SpeedyHTPC
03-11-04, 03:22 PM
I just want to say that with the regional code turned off, I can't play Spiderman on the Norcent "LiteOn" 301b. It has region code protection.
SpeedyHTPC
03-11-04, 04:04 PM
Oh .. me again..
Appears that you can still get your hands on the real and hosted by LiteOn v301.
http://www.liteonit.com.tw/DC/english/images/zip/2001-0301.zip
SpeedyHTPC
03-11-04, 04:27 PM
More on dvdrhelp.com or more commonly known as vcdhelp.com
*deleted post*
This is an old post. No longer true and is discontinued.
I think what causes LiteOn / Norcent soft image is due to its inferior 10-bit 27MHz D/A video converter. All brand names employ at least 10-bit 54MHz D/A converter. That's twice the sampling rate of our LiteOn/Norcent player. Some hi-end models even go as high as 14-bit resolution. Momitsu V880 may have the same 27MHz D/A for its components output. That maybe the reason why using V880's DVI output which bypasses the inferior D/A of the player and let the TV set's D/A to convert the pure digital signal may improve the PQ. In this case, some people see a better picture and some don't. It depends on your TV's D/A resolution then. Now is the question, what's our HDTV's D/A spec? I have a Mitsubishi Diamond 65813 and I don't know its internal D/A spec. Is it better than 10-bit 27MHz?
Comments?
SpeedyHTPC
03-11-04, 04:53 PM
Here is something interesting from vcdhelp.com...a LiteON reply on 301b firmware..
I asked Lite-On customer services about the problems discussed on this messageboard and they seem to have realised the problems with the 0301 Beta firmware release. Personally, my player runs much better with it but I had to address the possibility that it might not be able to be firmware flashed in the future. Here's what Lite-On said to me:
Dear Sir,
1.For player no response after updating 0301 beta version, all they have to do is returning to
repair.
2.As the 0301 may cause some damage to the machine because of over_frequency,so we decide to remove
it from our webite to prevent from more damages,
As you know we have to debug the new firmware again,so please be patient to get a future stable
firmware.
Damage to over-frequency?
SpeedyHTPC
03-11-04, 04:57 PM
The old v229 release from LiteON..
http://www.liteonit.com/DC/english/images/zip/2001-0229.zip
Some have said that flashing back from 301b to 229 rendered their player useless. I'm not sure if the pull-the-plug method with 3 panel buttons pressed was used.
Consultant
03-11-04, 05:07 PM
I'll think I'll stick with 2.29 to be safe - especially considering the changes in 3.01 as far as PQ are supposedly very very minor and I'm not getting the player for DIVX.
It would figure though that the majority of people participating in and audio video science forum are always going to be itching to use the very latest revision of anything, beta or not, unless it totally blows up on their face.
One of the reasons I did decide to buy this unit was because unline other manufacturers, at least they do frequently provide firmware updates as opposed to just letting their customer live with the bugs.
I personally have gone 2.23->2.29->3.01b->2.29->3.01b without any problems. So I feel you can back track if you want but I think 3.01b is the best due to 1) better DivX support (FF/REW are smoother), 2) less popping noises at FF/REW or Stop button, 3) better color and brightness range, 4) identical to 2.29 sharpness and overall PQ which is better than 2.27 and much better than 2.23 and 2.24.
Consultant
03-11-04, 05:33 PM
Ya, but if the manufacturer said they took 3.01b off their web page because of a risk of causing damage to the hardware, then reverting back to a different firmware isn't going to fix it. Granted the risk seems low, but I think I would trade not having the few improvements for a few more weeks until they release new firmware over taking the risk of physically damaging my player and having to send it in for repair.
SpeedyHTPC
03-11-04, 05:40 PM
Huey,
Do you know where the original Norcent firmware may be found?
SpeedyHTPC
03-11-04, 06:20 PM
Norcent Tech Support direct # is 909-305-2121.
And they seem to be ok honoring LiteON's firmwares. Thats great..!
Eric Samonte
03-11-04, 06:49 PM
Do u really need to be on a Linux machine to insert ur lown logo? I have the v301b zip, unzipped, it only shows the nrg image, and 2 word documents. How do u "breakdown" the actual nrg file into its components?
Sorry for all the questions.
I wouldn't believe anything that LiteOn tech support says. First of all they advised that the 3.01b firmware was intentionally posted for only a couple days, to tide everyone over until the non-beta firmware was released. They have been saying for many months that a non-beta firmware update with numerous improvements was just around the corner.
Though I truly love my LiteOn, their tech support has no credibility whatsoever, beginning with the very bad translation software they use to answer inquiries. I have not heard of anyone having problems with the 3.01b firmware other than trying to load it, but once properly loaded the firmware does not seem to have any bugs, at least not any that weren't present in earlier versions of the firmware. The 3.01b firmware is better than the 2.29 firmware is a couple areas, including color rendition and in being able to set proper brightness and contrast levels, and it lowers the amount of popping noise as others have noted. Yes, the improvement are minor, but do yourselves a favor anyway and load this firmware.
As to sharpness, the LiteOn LVD-2001 (have not tried Norcent) puts out a very sharp image, but only after upgrading the IDE cable as described at length in previous posts by myself and others. You can also noticeably increase sharpness by doing extra shielding to the unit, but far and away the best and most cost effective upgrade for this player, and any of the Sigma 8500 based players, is to upgrade the IDE cable. Either use the IOSS Gladiator cable available online, or the Antec Cobra cable available at larger Circuit City stores or CompUSA stores, to name just two places. Easy upgrade, roughly $15. I've been upgrading these players for myself and friends since September, and the IDE cable upgrade makes an amazing difference. I have used over a dozen different DVD players in my system since April of 1997, including some expensive players, and none of them can touch the LiteOn at 1080i. The LiteOn/Norcent at 4080i/p or 720p is pretty worthless--there are better and cheaper players out there for that.
The sharpness is however very system dependent. From what I've read and experienced, analogue CRT systems will benefit the most. And you have to have a display that accepts 1080i as a native display rate.
Originally posted by CJayB
...... As to sharpness, the LiteOn LVD-2001 (have not tried Norcent) puts out a very sharp image, but only after upgrading the IDE cable as described at length in previous posts by myself and others. You can also noticeably increase sharpness by doing extra shielding to the unit, but far and away the best and most cost effective upgrade for this player, and any of the Sigma 8500 based players, is to upgrade the IDE cable. ........
IDE cable carries digital data, not analog signal. How can it affect the image quality? What's the theory behind it?
I have a CRT based HDTV. So, my Norcent should benefit from this IDE cable upgrade?
:confused:
hschen, I don't have a clue why the cable upgrade works, but you don't have to take my word for it, there are numerous posts here and over at the Home Theater Forum verifying that it works. It seems to work for all Sigma 8500 based players using standard IDE cables. I first learned about it in a thread on upgrades for the Momitsu V880.
And your system will surely benefit from this upgrade.
I know one user of the highly touted Denon 1600 who said that before the cable upgrade, he thought the pic quality between Denon at 480P and the LiteOn at 1080i was very close, but he would probably give a slight nod to the Denon. After the upgrade, he said it's no longer close, the LiteOn beats the Denon.
I've documented here that I feel the upgrades I've done to my LiteOn have taken the picture more than halfway to HD quality, comparing a standard 480i/p DVD pic and my D-Theater tapes which are mastered in 1080i HD. Especially the color is amazing.
The only catch to the upgrade is drilling or burning out the plug on one end of the IDE cable to make it fit in the LiteOn/Norcent. You can get IDE shielded round cables without the plug, but they are not nearly as good as the two cables I mention. I have tried both the Antec Cobra and IOSS Gladiator cables in my system and know they work very well.
More bits may go through faster and more efficiently with a much better shielded and quality IDE ATA133 cable. IOSS being the best for a premium (still relatively cheap for $18 shipped in USA from www.paragonca.com ).
With above said, I personally saw NO improvement with my IOSS cable upgrade although I don't regret it as it should improve stability, reliability, smoother framerates (better pans and less judder/stutter?). Of course the stock cable image was just fine for my setup (LT150 XGA DLP at 96" wide). The right sided EE was still there but minor before and only visible if I go less than 96" from screen (I sit at 13 feet). After the shielding and all other mods the right sided EE was still there (no better to my eyes and to my measurement using Video Essential needle pulse pattern, which is normally used to check for blooming on contrast, using a ruler).
Some of the improvement noticed by some may be placebo vs. true improvement on differing setups as I measured and paid attention on my setup before and after all the mods specifically to see if it made a difference. On my setup it did not; however, I left all the mods (shield wall with aluminum foil, twisting power cable, IOSS 8" ATA133 cable grounded to case, aluminum tape to wrap all power cabling after the twisting, ferrite core on my componet cable, felt pads under my LTD166 loader, heatsink with heatsink grease on Sigma chip) alone as it can't hurt :D). Now I'm intrigued about the capacitor mod that Momitsu users are doing and wondering if it'll help LiteON or will I just fry it :D
Huey, most DLP owners have said the same as you. That's why I singled out CRT based systems.
Why are you contemplating the capacitor upgrade? Seems to me that the LiteOn power supply is quite good and stable and I would be leary of messing with it, other than to add shielding.
In my case, it certainly is not a placebo effect with the IDE cable upgrade. I got a couple friends over before and after and with no prompting they both noticed huge improvements after the upgrade, as in "now what did you buy for your system to improve it?" I bought a $15 cable and a few bucks worth of aluminum tape.
I also have three LiteOns in my household, and have done numerous before and after tests to compare the difference between a standard unit, a unit with just an IDE cable upgrade, and a unit with IDE cable upgrade and lots of extra shielding.
I agree fully with what you say about the EE, all the upgrades I've done have not gotten rid of it, but I can't say if it's improved. I didn't even notice the EE until after I did the upgrades and started looking for it. I sit almost 12 feet back from my 53" RPTV and see no EE at that distance, but at 5 or 6 feet it becomes quite noticeable.
One person has reported that he did the cable upgrade and shielding upgrade and the EE is now virtually eliminated. The only thing he mentioned doing that I did not do is also shielding the wires running underneath the loader with copper tape covered in package tape to prevent possibility of shorting. I may soon try that.
solution50
03-12-04, 10:00 AM
Just a quick thank you. Got my Norcent yesterday. Did the firmware, secret menu etc. Everything went excellent due to the help found here. Great PQ on a Toshiba 57H83. Thanks!
Originally posted by CJayB
............
The only catch to the upgrade is drilling or burning out the plug on one end of the IDE cable to make it fit in the LiteOn/Norcent. You can get IDE shielded round cables without the plug, but they are not nearly as good as the two cables I mention. I have tried both the Antec Cobra and IOSS Gladiator cables in my system and know they work very well.
I would like to try the upgrade since I have a CRT HDTV. But "drilling or burning" sounds scary. Is there a better way? Can you list the procedure? Where to buy the best IDE IOSS cable?
Thanks.
Consultant
03-12-04, 02:36 PM
Do a Google search on 'ioss cable' and you'll find:
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/paragonca/rd3xpgladiator.html
They are out of the 8" but the 12" should work just as good.
I know how you feel, with hundreds of messages in these threads, it is somewhat difficult and time consuming to just find a summary of all the conclusions/tips/procedures. I think if a thread is over 100 messages, someone should always make an FAQ that appears as the first message. Would save a heck of a lot of time for us who are late to the discussion.
I just ordered a Norcent and a cable after readin all the messages I could find. Considering I need a player with 1080i component out, this sounds like the most trouble free reliable player with the best PQ. Not that I had much to choose from.
This unit (the Liteon branded version) is supposedly coming up in one of the next Shootouts on the Home Theater Secrets website that most people here follow. I fully expect this player to not do very well at all in their detailed testing suite (maybe I'll be suprised.) Everyone really respects these guy's tests so there will probably be a bunch of Liteon/Norcent owners with a bit of buyer's remorse. I think these tests provide valuable information but I try not to take them to heart. If it looks good, it looks good a few people hear have said. And the only thing significantly bad I've heard about the Norcent/Liteon Picture Quality is that its 480p output is sub-par. But I'm only buying it for 1080i (if I was going for 480p I would have ordered the Denon 910.) I wonder if the Secrets shootout will test it at 1080i?
"Drilling" is simply heating up the tip of a paper clip to melt a tiny hole in the middle of the plastic IDE plug. On the IOSS cable it's missing one hole in the middle so all of the IDE pins won't fit without this hole. See the step by step photos from tuckercentral mentioned earlier in this thread.
I'm just a sucker for new mods so I was just curious. I agree with you the the Norcent/LiteON has a decent powersupply with fast loading so it may be overkill and risk burning this excellent player. I was just thinking out loud :D.
I am glad I did my mods as it can't hurt and I do like to do them :D. All that matters is the PQ to you so if the image looks better then go for it. For $20 and so easy and fun, I would recommend everyone to do it.
ferrisg
03-12-04, 04:26 PM
Of course, your option is to just break the pin off the connector at the board. It's obviously used only to prevent you from putting connectors on with such a key in.
As to the cable, why would a better cable do anything? For shielding, well, I doubt this thing emits near enough radiation to matter. And for the explanation that it provides higher throughput, although questionable since no comparison was done to the original cable, you first need something that can even utilize that bandwidth. I would think a blind test of this would show that there really is no improvement, unless the cable originally provided is exceptionally worthless (stick it on a hard drive in a pc and see if you get lots of retries).
There are numerous reviews of the R3DXP (try googling) but here is one example: http://www.tweaktown.com/document.php?dType=review&dId=355&89243 . The conclusion said:
- Pros
Better data flow under Windows (10%)
Rounded design aids airflow
Aluminum shielding for cleaner signals
Very high quality
- Cons
High price ($18 shipped in US)
Ground cable can be a hassle for tweakers
Like you, I was skeptical so I did specific observation using Video Essential sharpness pattern and measuring the amount of right sided EE, and there was NO change IMHO. However, if others with different setups (there are plenty) swears by the improvement, then more power to them. The mod is cheap, easily done, theoretically better, and can't hurt.
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