DenonJeff, What's the word on any new Denon Players?

[awtryau89]

Title says it all. I know you are lurking out there somewhere.:D

[santellavision]

I think he's afraid to post anything after all the 5900 problems.

[Grubert]

I'd like a Denon 2200 with DVI out...

[Shane Martin]

Well I assume that if they are putting the denon link on the 3805 they are prepping some sort of midrange dvd player with DVI and the Denon link to accomodate that.

Then again they might have added it for those that want to spend double the receiver cost for a new DVD player ;)

[Josh Z]

Originally posted by awtryau89
Title says it all. I know you are lurking out there somewhere.:D

You might want to check the AVS Special Guests forum and see if he still posts there. He hasn't been in any of the other forums here for quite some time.

[dpippel]

You might want to check the AVS Special Guests forum and see if he still posts there.
The Special Guests Forums here at AVS have been shut down and closed to posting for over 2 months now.

[Kris Deering]

Denon will be releasing a boat load of new players by years end. No specific dates or product features yet, but I think your wishes will be granted.

[jhawk92]

Kris-
So here's a question for you. Since I am going to be finishing my basement for a dedicated HT this spring/summer, funds will be a bit tight for equipment upgrades, other than the PJ/scaler/screen. I have an older Denon DVD-2500 that does quite well for me now. I have been thinking about getting either the DVD-2900 or the -5900 soon (and who knows about going with the Underwood mods), but if there are some tasty morsels on the horizon, would it be worth waiting a bit to see what they are?

My -2500 has component out, so I could dump that to a scaler and then on to the PJ and be pretty happy for video, but I would also like to get into multi-channel music, which is why I was looking at the new Denons.

On a side note, I have been lurking here at AVS for well over a year, and have learned a great deal. Your posts, Kris, as well as those from some of the folks over in the CRT PJ forum are a wealth of knowledge. What great resources to have here. And the Secrets reviews are quite good as well. While there is so much material out there, if you can absorb most of it, you can make very informed decisions.

[Kris Deering]

I can't comment directly on what is coming out, plus that can be a vicious cycle to get into. Normally if you wait for something that is coming up, you hear about stuff that may come out a bit later and so on; therefore, you never get what you want.

I think the 5900 is a solid value if you're in the market for a Denon product. I will be testing two more DVI based players very soon that could be quite good as well. But I am sure that if you wait, you will have a lot of options around fall time frame from numerous companies.

[zoro]

Thnx Kris, can u pls give us tentative list of players for next shoot out? thnx

[Kevin C Brown]

I have heard that a 3900 is coming... No timeframe though.

[YvesC]

The 3900....
That sounds like the player I'm waiting for! Hope it will come out soon rather than later :)

[Kensmith48]

Parasound is going to be coming out with DVD (player)s if you can hold off. The President of Parasound has informed me that it will be unlike anything else . Just by their reputation it should be better than any Denon. I've tried to get more info and a release date but they won't say anything. Top Secret.

[Kris Deering]

The next shootout is still in the works. Right now we will feature the DVD-2200, Integra DPC 7.1, Pioneer 59 AVi, Krell Showcase, Phillips 963a, Mitsubishi 6040, Samsung 931 for sure.

We are hoping to get a few from NAD, Yamaha, Arcam, Rotel, Panasonic, Teac, and Theta as well, but it is all based on availability.

[zoro]

Kool..happy to see, philips 963sa in there!! any preliminary results on philips?

BTW!! Is it Mits 6040 or 8040..

When the results will be out on these!!

Many thnx for answering

[sergiohm]

Originally posted by Kris Deering
The next shootout is still in the works. Right now we will feature the DVD-2200, Integra DPC 7.1, Pioneer 59 AVi, Krell Showcase, Phillips 963a, Mitsubishi 6040, Samsung 931 for sure.

We are hoping to get a few from NAD, Yamaha, Arcam, Rotel, Panasonic, Teac, and Theta as well, but it is all based on availability.
The Teac you mean the Esoteric DV-50, right ? Why not include the Linn Unidisk ?

[DenonJeff]

Hey guys....Yes I am still around, but since the Special Guest threads has been shut down I only answer PMs.

I never much posted in any of the threads on our products...however I would like to comment that I am not ashamed of the DVD-5900, it is a great product, is it perfect...No, will there ever be a perfect player...Doubt it. But we will try.

If you have specific questions, do not hesitate to PM me. I will post when new product info is ready for release - you will hear about it before the mainstream - and if we have any updates pertaining to our products. That said, No I can't tell you any specifics at this time on the upcoming products - However I can say that we are replacing the entire line of receivers (7 total models) and all new DVD lineup (5 total models). All will be released starting now with the AVR-3805 on through to October - most will be out by the end of summer.

Which reminds me...stay tuned as we are just about ready to release a fix for the sluggish menu and 'macroblocking' as well as the 1394 compatibility issues.

Regards,

[x94blair3]

Great news and thanks for the information. There's always something "better" just around the corner but the 5900 sounds like a great product especially if you're addressing these issues. I look forward to buying one as I'm sure Denon looks forward to my money :D

-Nick

[Kris Deering]

Originally posted by sergiohm
The Teac you mean the Esoteric DV-50, right ? Why not include the Linn Unidisk ?

I put in a request for the Linn, I just don't know if we'll get it. The Esoteric may be included depending on availability. Teac said they don't have any samples in the US right now but if they get one soon they will try to support.

Great news Jeff!

[jhawk92]

DenonJeff-
Sounds like great news then, especially if most of the units will be out by summer...perfect timing for me. And if there is a fix coming for the 5900, then I may not be able to wait until summer! :D

Kris-
Yeah, HT gear is getting almost as bad as PC world. I don't mind not having "every" new feature, but I'd like any gear I buy to have some applicability in the future. Thanks.

[PolkThug]

Originally posted by DenonJeff
However I can say that we are replacing the entire line of receivers (7 total models) and all new DVD lineup (5 total models). All will be released starting now with the AVR-3805 on through to October - most will be out by the end of summer.

I would be happy except that I just spent $600 on a 2200 less than a month ago. Before I bought it I asked the dealer if there was a new model coming out soon, and he said no, the 2200 is a new model. I guess the dealers are too far removed from the Denon HQ. Don't get me wrong, I love the 2200. Like somebody said, if you're always waiting for the newest features, then you'll be waiting continuously.

Any Denon trade-up programs Jeff?

Regards,
PolkThug

[DenonJeff]

Keep in mind we do generally change models on a yearly basis, the 2200 was released last September so its replacement will be this September.

I wish we didn't have to release new every year, especially with DVD players, but the market - read you lovers of this stuff - demand the latest and greatest.

Sorry no upgrade programs with Denon directly, better dealers do that...

Regards,

[Furious]

Have any of the recent stock of 5900 include the firmware fix or is it going to be a field update? I'll have one arriving in the next week or two from the next allocation to Denon Canada. In either case, it's shaping up to be a banner spring!

[DenonJeff]

Furious,

Don't think so, we don't have any stock! This fix isn't finished yet, so it won't be implemented into production till next month probably.

Regards,

[Josh Z]

Originally posted by dpippel
The Special Guests Forums here at AVS have been shut down and closed to posting for over 2 months now.

Whoops! I stand corrected.

Shows how long it's been since I last checked there.

[jcg]

Does the new fix also fix the HDCP handshake issue with the Sanyo Z2 projector? Or has this already been fixed? Thanks.

John

Originally posted by DenonJeff
Hey guys....Yes I am still around, but since the Special Guest threads has been shut down I only answer PMs.

I never much posted in any of the threads on our products...however I would like to comment that I am not ashamed of the DVD-5900, it is a great product, is it perfect...No, will there ever be a perfect player...Doubt it. But we will try.

If you have specific questions, do not hesitate to PM me. I will post when new product info is ready for release - you will hear about it before the mainstream - and if we have any updates pertaining to our products. That said, No I can't tell you any specifics at this time on the upcoming products - However I can say that we are replacing the entire line of receivers (7 total models) and all new DVD lineup (5 total models). All will be released starting now with the AVR-3805 on through to October - most will be out by the end of summer.

Which reminds me...stay tuned as we are just about ready to release a fix for the sluggish menu and 'macroblocking' as well as the 1394 compatibility issues.

Regards,

[Furious]

Originally posted by DenonJeff
Furious,

Don't think so, we don't have any stock! This fix isn't finished yet, so it won't be implemented into production till next month probably.

Regards,

Thanks for the reply Jeff, a field update it will be then!

Adam

[DenonJeff]

John,

That has been corrected and we do have a service fix for those of you with the Sanyo/5900 combination.

Regards,

[sheim]

What about firmware updates for the DVD-2900? The reason I ask is because mine appears to crop a couple of pixels and it also skips sometimes on audio CDs longer than 74 min and there have been some audio dropouts on Dolby Digital DVDs. I've seen some posts about fixes for various DVD problems but nothing about CD.

[Krobar]

Kris,

Couldnt find reference to the Integra DPC-7.1, any chance of the upcoming DPS-10.5 or RDV-1.1 entering the shootout?

Denon Jeff,

Will this update allow the 5900 to jitter correct through I-Link with the Pioneer Recievers?

[pbir]

DenonJeff, it's great too hear from you ! Please see this as subtle encouragement to continue posting.

Paul.

[YvesC]

DenonJeff, I understand you cannot reveal a lot about upcoming players, but can you confirm the rumours about a future "dvd-3900" to fill the gap between the 2900 and the 5900?
Thanks!

[Kris Deering]

Originally posted by Krobar
Kris,

Couldnt find reference to the Integra DPC-7.1, any chance of the upcoming DPS-10.5 or RDV-1.1 entering the shootout?



Those models aren't available yet, I did ask for them though. They will eventually be in a shootout, just not this one.

[Dave Vaughn]

Jeff,
Thanks for your input. You are one of the reasons I bought a 5900 because of direct access for information. Job well done!

Dave

[jolaca]

Jeff, hi and thanks for your answers here. Hope you could answer mine also: I am planning to buy a new high-end DVD player and I believe the best offer nowadays is the Denon 5900. However I would like to have in my new DVD player HDMI high resolution multichannel digital audio output capability and I know this will arrive with the 2nd generation HDMI chipsets (i.e. the Pioneer 59AVi or 868 does not have 2nd generation HDMI). Will those new Denons have this feature?? Thanks in advance, regards,

Jorge.

[Krobar]

Jorge,

Why bother waiting for HDMI2. HDMI V1 + I-Link is the same thing using two cables.

[jolaca]

Just because I do not have an I-link at my preamp but have the manufacter promise (Tag McLaren AV32DP) of an upgrade to HDMI2 when available...and I would love to use the AV32DP's internal DACs for DVDA and/or SACD.

Thanks anyway for your quick answer but I am waiting from a response from Jeff or Kris (if he knows those details).

[Krobar]

Just because I do not have an I-link at my preamp but have the manufacter promise (Tag McLaren AV32DP) of an upgrade to HDMI2 when available...and I would love to use the AV32DP's internal DACs for DVDA and/or SACD.

Understood Jolaca. Unique situation and I hope Jeff lets you know.

[TauRus]

As far as I remember HDMI specs rev.2 (with 8 channel hi rez audio) were approved in January 2004. I hope this means that all new HDMI equipped players entering the market this year will carry the so called HDMI2 interface.

[jolaca]

Nice news, I did not know they were aproved on January.
I also hope so!!, every new player should use the new HDMI version.

[sergiohm]

Originally posted by TauRus
As far as I remember HDMI specs rev.2 (with 8 channel hi rez audio) were approved in January 2004. I hope this means that all new HDMI equipped players entering the market this year will carry the so called HDMI2 interface.
But I believe high-res audio through HDMI does not include SACD only DVD-Audio. So it will be a long time before we see this HDMI convergence.

[jolaca]

Yeah, I knew this, that is way I said DVD-A and/or SACD.
Anyway Jeff...any clues on HDMIv2 on the new upcoming Denon players??

[DenonJeff]

As the chipset was just announced a couple of weeks ago, I don't know the status on this years players that will feature HDMI, I have asked but I haven't gotten an answer as of yet.

Regards,

[jolaca]

Thank you anyway for your interest. If you get any updated news about it I hope you will share it with all of us.

Thanks again,

Jorge.

[Woodsea]

DenonJeff!?
Are the digital amplifier receivers going to be offered in the good ole US of A? The panasonic digital's are getting alot of interest with their clean powerful pathway(hint hint).
Thanks,
Eric:D

[softengr]

Denon 2200 Mini-Review

I bought the Denon 2200 primarily for its excellent Dvd-Audio, SACD and digital bass management capabilities. What set the 2200 apart from the lower priced competition is a wide deep sound stage and its natural bass definition, pitch, articulation and bloom. Not just the lower bass either.

As for the video it needs to be adjusted for best/excellent performance. I've got a Sony GWIII 60" LCD display and use its progressive component inputs.

1) Out of the box the sharpness is way too high. Shades of Samsung 931. (Hyper detail with some noise). Setting sharpness to -3 o corrects the large bump in frequency response.
2) I had to set the individual gamma to get the proper black level. But first I tried to adjust the brightness and contrast settings:
Setting he menu black level item to "Lighter" shows way to far below 7.5 IRE black. (The sixth box on the THX test patterns). The brightness control can only be increased NOT decreased.
Setting the menu item to "Darker" results in not enough levels of grey being displayed. Increased the brightness or contrast caused the white peaks to be clipped. No good!
Only by adjusting the lower levels of the individual gamma (and reducing the sharpness) settings was I able to achieve a beautifully natural three dimensional no-noise picture.

[Kris Deering]

1) Out of the box the sharpness is way too high. Shades of Samsung 931. (Hyper detail with some noise). Setting sharpness to -3 o corrects the large bump in frequency response.

The frequency response for the 2200 is near flat, if you are seeing a hump, it is your display causing it, not the player.

[softengr]

Originally posted by Kris Deering
The frequency response for the 2200 is near flat, if you are seeing a hump, it is your display causing it, not the player.
I got out my old 40MHz scope to capture but its bandwidth is not wide enough to capture a progressive signal (27Mhz B/W).

When the sharpness is adjusted while viewing a frequency response test pattern is is easy to see the contrast change (about a third of the way over with the common THX optimizer grey scale/frequency response test pattern).
As you are no doubt aware Kris (I say this for others) an increase in contrast expands blacks down and whites further up. It increase the dynamic range of the signal. It also changes the frequency response as only certain frequencies are being expanded.

Whatever the case, the picture is plenty sharp with the sharpness at -3 and unnatural (to me) at 0. I mainly used the Treasure Planet Dvd for the adjustments.

[dpippel]

Whatever the case, the picture is plenty sharp with the sharpness at -3 and unnatural (to me) at 0. I mainly used the Treasure Planet Dvd for the adjustments.
If I'm remembering correctly, Treasure Planet suffers from some fairly heavy edge enhancement. You might want to consider a different title to use for evaluating and adjusting your sharpness settings.

[Kris Deering]

I use a multiburst pattern from AVIA, not a poorly mastered DVD. Another thing worth noting. You shouldn't use the THX Optimodes for setting up your display. They are based on that specific disc only, and not a general concensus. I would use DVE.

I used a Tek 3032B Oscope with a video adapter card that handles all video signals including HD to measure. The response is near flat, again you are seeing either problems with your monitor, or the DVD you are testing with.

[YvesC]

It has been some time since the last post,

isn't there any news about the new lineup of universal players? :confused: :confused: :confused:

The 2900 has been around for 1 year now and is starting to be dated (no digital audio/video outputs e.g.) so it's about time it gets replaced, don't you think ;)

And a 3910 would even be better :cool:

DenonJeff, can you raise the veil???

[jolaca]

I agree!! It is time to unveil the new Denon line.

Come on Jeff!!! PLEASE!!! Tell us something about the 2900, 5900 replacements.

[DenonJeff]

Well folks I have finally gotten caught up with emails, PMs and sending out firmware (If you still need the latest, fill out attached form and send - note the 5900 firmware I am sending out now does not include the 'Partial-Macro' fix as it corrects nothing else, and I was scalded by Japan for evening releasing it).

DVD-2900/2200 firmware now includes a fix for Diana Krall's "Live in Paris" DVD - if you select the dts track from the disc menu, the player ignores your request and plays the Dolby 2.0 track - you must then select the dts track using the 'Audio' button on the remote. - This particular fix was not available till last week.

So about the new, upcoming models???? I see some are a little ansy...;)

Well all I can say for now is we will have 2 progressive scan single disc players under $300. Universal players, we will have 3 starting at $700 and going up to $2500. We will incorporate digital connections, both audio and/or video on almost all units - don't ask for more details now, I can't tell you....:)

New players will start to be released in July all the way through October...

DVD Changers carry on, and we will not add a new model this year. Sorry.

Regards,

[kechulater]

Hey Jeff,

I am a DVD-2900 owner an recently received and uploaded the Alien fix firmware about 3 or 4 weeks ago. Did the Alien fix also take care of the Diana Krall issue?

Please advise.

Thanks!

[softengr]

Originally posted by DenonJeff
Universal players, we will have 3 starting at $700 and going up to $2500. We will incorporate digital connections, both audio and/or video on almost all units - don't ask for more details now, I can't tell you....:)
Regards,
Jeff, thanks for your posting.
If you can't answer the following question then maybe someone else can.
Will 3805 receivers be able to accept DVD-audio and SACD signals in their native format using Denon's third generation digital interface?

Or will SACD format be converted to PCM first then transmitted?

[DenonJeff]

kechulater,

No, I just received the Krall fix mated with the Alien fix. You can upload this if you want. Just send me the request sheet...


softengr,

With the 3805, and the 5803(A) SACD through the link can be listened to natively as DSD, with no Bass management, or converted to PCM to get BM. Your choice. The Burr-Brown DACs used in the 3805 D/A either PCM or DSD natively.

I have been playing with this in my office, it's pretty frickin cool, because we still give you Sub. Input level control and independent channel output level controls with DSD straight.

Regards,

[softengr]

Originally posted by DenonJeff
kechulater,
softengr,

With the 3805, and the 5803(A) SACD through the link can be listened to natively as DSD, with no Bass management, or converted to PCM to get BM. Your choice. The Burr-Brown DACs used in the 3805 D/A either PCM or DSD natively.

I have been playing with this in my office, it's pretty frickin cool, because we still give you Sub. Input level control and independent channel output level controls with DSD straight.

Regards,
This is a best possible outcome. I would like to congratulate you and the Denon design teams for producing such technological marvels at very reasonable prices. You guys must critically LISTEN to your products. Otherwise they would not exhibit such outstanding sound quality.

I see the competition and they are down on their knees!

[DenonJeff]

softengr,

Thanks for the kind words as I will pass them along to our engineers who take enormous pride in their creations.

Our engineers are all audio guys who truly care about the sound, and look, of DENON products, because let's face it, in the end isn't what all this stuff in about?

Regards,

[TauRus]

Originally posted by sergiohm
But I believe high-res audio through HDMI does not include SACD only DVD-Audio. So it will be a long time before we see this HDMI convergence.
Sergio, then what in your opinion is high resolution audio?

[Dave Vaughn]

Jeff,
Any update on your engineers fixing the macroblocking issue? Also, what is the update on the firewire info on the 5900 as well.

Thanks,

Dave

[DenonJeff]

Dave,

We are feverishly working with Faroudja and Stacey Spears to find a cure for this. We have received the fix for 1394 on the 5900, we are finalizing the logistics presently. I will announce both here and on our web site when we are ready to receive units.

Regards,

[Juan]

DenonJeff,

andy chance you can tell us if the uni players will play both DVD-A and SACD?

[DenonJeff]

Juan,

When I say 'Universal' players, I mean DVD-A and SACD. So yes they will play both.

Regards,

[Juan]

Thanks Jeff, I will sit and wait then.

[DenonJeff]

Juan,

I did not wish to sound condescending, please accept my apologies if I came across that way.

I can understand that 'Universal' has different meanings from different manufacturers.

Regards,

Regards,

[Juan]

Not to worry Jeff, I know it is hard to express what one really feels over the net.

[BOISERIE]

DenonJeff,
Any idea's if the replacement for the 2900, will still use the Silicon image chip? If so, will it be a newer chipset? Will the video quality be superior?

[YvesC]

DenonJeff,

Thanks for the swift reply concerning the new players!

Do the 3 universal players that you mention include the DVD-1x or is this one expected at a later point?

When you mention digital audio connections, does this mean only DenonLink like the AVR-3805, or Firewire as well?

When do you expect DenonLink 3 to be approved for passing SACD?

Thanks again!

[DenonJeff]

Boiserie,

As I can't divulge too much, but let me say there will not be a direct replacement for the 2900, but a step up unit with lots of connectivity options and a more advanced lower priced unit.

Regards,

[DenonJeff]

YvesC,

No I did not include the DVD-1x, we should debut that unit at CES. As far as digital audio connections go, I will say to use your imagination...

We are still hoping for possibly the next 60 days.

Regards,

[ZiggyB]

We are feverishly working with Faroudja and Stacey Spears to find a cure for this.

Here's hoping you find one, Jeff! For what it's worth, you can pass my thanks on to the engineers for the 5900 as well!

Cheers,
--Zig--

[zoro]

any, sacd/dvd audio changer? i guess not?

[BOISERIE]

DenonJeff,
You mean that ther will be an equal or superior unit to the 2900 with more connections at a lower price?

[Juan]

You mean that ther will be an equal or superior unit to the 2900 with more connections at a lower price?

That would be great, but if it is just as good as the 2200, I will be happy.

[DenonJeff]

Zig,

Will do!

Zoro,

Not this year...

Boiserie,

Can't give that away just yet - but know we always try to make better, with more features at lower and higher prices than previous models...

Juan,


Thanks.

Regards,

[Enigma]

Jeff,

Along with the capability to play all formats and have digital connections, I would think there would be a high demand for a changer, for playing music primarily. I currently have a Denon DVD-1600 and a Sony 222ES SACD changer, and would really like to do away with two boxes by getting something which would do both. Does Denon not feel there is enough of a market for a product like that? I think a changer for just a DVD video player is really unnecessary, but for all music formats there are many times its nice to put it on and let it play music without attention.

enigma

[Cain]

Thx Jeff,

Just a hint....DVI???? HDMI ???? On the new Universal players ???

[DThiel]

I'll be requesting this firmware as my 2900 has problems playing the DTS audio option with the Eagles - 'Hell Freezes over' DVD.

[Grubert]

Okay, let's read a bit into what Jeff told us. Warning wild arse guess ahead!

New models will be (working model numbers totally made out)


Two progressive DVD players:

4D1
Similar to the DVD-900.
No digital video or hi-res digital audio outputs.
MSRP $199 - $249.

4D2
Probably digital video output; possibly hires digital audio output.
Like a DVD-1600 with DVI/HDMI and/or FireWire.
MSRP $299.


Three universal players:

4U1
Like a DVD-2900 with DVI/HDMI and/or FireWire. ("lots of connectivity options")
MSRP $699

4U2
Like a DVD-3800, with hi-res digital connections.
MSRP $1199 - $1499

4U3
MSRP $2500

How far off am I? ;)

[AKA-Chuck G]

DenonJeff, you mentioned Faroudja, so your new universal line will have DCDi? :D

[BOISERIE]

AKA-Chuck G,
Right-on, i too would like to know if Denon will be using Silicon image or Faroudja. And will they be better chip sets or the same?

[thearthurclone]

Originally posted by AKA-Chuck G
DenonJeff, you mentioned Faroudja, so your new universal line will have DCDi? :D

he mentioned faroudja in the context of the 5900 fix. i don't think he's mentioned what chip would be used in the next-gen players.


Originally posted by Grubert
Three universal players:

4U1
Like a DVD-2900 with DVI/HDMI and/or FireWire. ("lots of connectivity options")
MSRP $699

4U2
Like a DVD-3800, with hi-res digital connections.
MSRP $1199 - $1499


i'd venture to guess that the new players would have denon link before they'd have firewire connections. it'll go hand in hand with the release of the 3805.
i'm not sure how i interpret denonjeff's following statement:

there will not be a direct replacement for the 2900, but a step up unit with lots of connectivity options and a more advanced lower priced unit.

does that mean a step up from the 2900 (possibly similar w/denon link and dvi?) at a higher msrp (~$1100?) AND a more advanced lower priced unit (similar to 2200 w/denon link and dvi?) for the ~$700 price point........or does it mean one player that is technically more advanced than the 2900 for a lower msrp? if that's the case i have to imagine it would be in the 800-900 range.

[zoro]

I hope without forever ongoing QC issues..

[DenonJeff]

Wow, you guys are having fun with this topic!:p

enigma,

Unfortunately we have to develop, and build, the entire player internally a Universal DVD changer of high quality, none of our OEM partners can do it. So we hope to offer one next year...


DTheil,

Please elaborate on the dts issue on Hell Freezes Over as I am testing now on my 2900 and haven't noticed anything wrong.

Chuck G,

Those units with Faroudja will of course include DCDi

Grubert,

Nice work! Close on some, not so close on others...

For all - As I am a big fan of Silicon Image, please remember that when featuring scaling with DVI, or other output, we can't use them. They are only work for 480p.

thearthurclone,

We will have to wait till June/July to piece out the lineup. I wish I could say more now, however it is just to early.

zoro,

Point taken...

Regards,

[zoro]

I would love to own a DCDI based SACD/DVD AUDIO changer with build quality of atleast 2200 or above..firewire, or DVI/HDMI, I dont care much, but would be extra bonus..oh yes, gOOD, FAST, SOLID transport, minimal layer change!..I dont think, it is asking too much,,

I really appreciate ur POSITIVE attitude Jeff!! You r the man! Thnx for firmware disc man!! Looks like I have to wait for ONE MORE YEAR? will we see a changer at CES or CEDIA?

[AKA-Chuck G]

Chuck G,

Those units with Faroudja will of course include DCDi

I know that! But WHICH units will have that!

[DenonJeff]

Zoro,

Not sure when we will show, I head to Japan next month so maybe I will hear something...

Chuck G.,

Can't say for now....

[YvesC]

Hi DenonJeff,

As you see we all eagerly await these new players (no kidding! :D )
I really appreciate you're replying, though you can't reveal a lot, mustn't be easy :)

Can you tell us when we will have formal announcements? Let's say, you mention a new player for July, do we have to wait for details till July or will it be mid-June, beginning of June, May (yeah wouldn't that be a good idea guys? :D )

Yves

[zoro]

Originally posted by DenonJeff
Zoro,

Not sure when we will show, I head to Japan next month so maybe I will hear something...

Chuck G.,

Can't say for now....

THNX Jeff, pls keep info flowing as u get it.

BTW..Any chances to manufacture in JAPAN, not CHINA?

[hongcho]

Since people are asking things... :)

DenonJeff,

Is there going to be any Denon DVD product that would do anything with VC-9 (or WMV9) or H.264?

Hong.

[DenonJeff]

YvesC,

:cool: Should be June, middle, possibly on a Thursday, mid afternoon, say 3:42:35...

zoro,

For obvious reasons the majority (all this year) are built in China, also D&M secured our own factory not to long ago. It is most likely our DVD-1x will be Japan, maybe even the 5900 replacement but I can't say for sure.

hongcho,

We are seriously investigating WMV9 presently, however Microsoft still isn't sure on how to proceed with WMV0 in set top boxes, there is also a limited number (1 that I know of) decoder chipsets available - and this chipset may not be compatible with whatever Microsoft finally decides...

Regards,

[zoro]

OUT the context, looks like MICROSOFT next XBOX beafed up, will have WM9 player??

[DenonJeff]

Don't know - one would think and by that time Microsoft should have everything ironed out.

Regards,

[DThiel]

DenonJeff,

I choose the DTS option on the DVD and I set my Sony TA-E9000ES pre-pro to 'auto' decode and the pre-pro decodes as DD 3/2. I then force the pre-pro to decode DTS only and the pre/pro indicates 'not DTS'.

I replaced the 2900 with a lower end JVC player I have laying around and the Eagles DVD plays fine with the DTS audio option.

[DenonJeff]

DThiel,

Interesting, I must have a different version of the disc than you, mine only offers dts and PCM 2.0. I take it yours has, and defaults to the DD track? I will have to go out and buy another copy to test. Thanks for the feedback.

Regards,

[blipszyc]

Originally posted by zoro
minimal layer change!..I dont think, it is asking too much,,

Actually, not enough. I'd like to see layer changes eliminated alltogether.

[Dave Vaughn]

I beleive Hell Freezes Over only has PCM and DTS, not DD.

Dave

[Omen]

Originally posted by Dave Vaughn
I beleive Hell Freezes Over only has PCM and DTS, not DD.


That's all that's on my copy too.

[Kris Deering]

On my previous Panasonic player, if you select DTS as the audio track on the Eagles disc, then skip past the opening logos and intros to the show itself, it defaulted back to PCM for some reason. I found this extremelly annoying. I tried this same thing with the 5900 and it stayed in DTS just fine the whole way through.

I don't know how in the world you could be getting a Dolby track since there isn't one on the disc.

[Dave Vaughn]

I had the same problem with my XP-50 as well. That is why I sold the darn thing!

Dave

[DThiel]

Originally posted by Dave Vaughn
I beleive Hell Freezes Over only has PCM and DTS, not DD.

Dave

When I load the disc in the 2900 player, I have two audio options which are displayed, DTS and Dolby 5.1 Surround.
If I choose the Dolby 5.1 surround audio option, my pre-pro decodes the disc as DD 3/2(yes true 5.1 surround with LFE not DD 2/0).
When I choose DTS, my pre/pro still decodes the disc at DD 3/2.
Again, I forced the pre-pro to decode DTS only (choosing DTS option on the disc)and the pre-pro indicates 'not DTS'.

I only have this occurring with the Eagles DVD.

[DThiel]

Originally posted by Kris Deering

I don't know how in the world you could be getting a Dolby track since there isn't one on the disc.

That's what the Sony TA-E9000ES is indicating. If the disc is encoded with DD 1/0, DD 2/0, DD 3/2, DTS 3/2, the Sony will decode the disc and indicate what it's decoding.

Could it be the 2900 or the TA-E9000ES? All I know is the Sony does NOT indicate DTS with either audio option available on the disc.

[Dean_Mc]

Is it a retail disc?

[SamL]

Hi DenonJeff,

Will the new Universal player come with build in DD, DTS, SACD and DVD-A decorder? I know no one here interested with build in decoder but I do :)

TIA,
Sam

[DThiel]

Originally posted by Dean_Mc
Is it a retail disc?

Good point Dean_Mc.

I bought this DVD off of a friend. I will have to find out were he bought it.
I do notice the Disc says 'DVD-9 dolby digital'. The art work on the cover indicates DTS digital surround and looks identical to what BB and Amazon is selling for this DVD.

What I'm going to do is buy another copy from Best Buy and report back on my findings.

[Grubert]

Jeff, so much for my Nostradamus skills. :p

If it isn't too late in the game, I have a suggestion for future players that you could relay to the Japanese engineers. It only affects European players, but it is rather bothersome, and it could be solved with next to no expense.

Just tell them the following:

Force two-channel downmix on the SCART audio channels, regardless of audio channel setup.

Explanation:

In current Denon universal players, if you set up speaker configuration to "multi-channel", the audio channels of the SCART plug carry only the front L+R channels, which is rather catastrophic - you lose all the center channel and most dialogue with it when you want to watch a DVD on your TV without turning on the amplifier.

An example of what should be done can be found on the Philips 963SA. No matter how audio is setup, you have stereo downmix on the audio of the SCART connection.

[AKA-Chuck G]

Dtheil, only thing I can think of is you don't have the DTS bitstream turned ON in the DVD player. I had the E9000es for 4 years and don't remember this problem with the preamp.

[DenonJeff]

SamL,

As we have done previously, all our Universal players will have the built in decoders for all the formats.

Grubert,

I have asked for our players to do the same downmixing for the analog outputs, only our DVD-A players do this, not the universal ones. I know we are going to have on the upcoming units! I would imagine they will provide this for the SCART output, but I will inquire.

ChuckG,

Good suggestion, however the 2900 has either a 'Normal' or 'PCM' digital output adjustment. From the factory it is set to 'Normal' which passes the native bitstream from any disc out, including dts. If DTheil, has it set to PCM, he would be having problems on just about every DVD he played..
I think we will have to wait for his upcoming test results with another disc..

Regards,

[c722]

Originally posted by DThiel
I do notice the Disc says 'DVD-9 dolby digital'.

sorry to say this, but when I see this I strongly suspect this is not an original retail disc. "DVD-9" this word is commonly used in south east asia for bootlegs. I have tried some of them. They all say DTS in the menu, but actually can be anything other than DTS. The worst thing is mixing a simple PCM into a DD track with the other channels simply equal to the mains.

[Dave Vaughn]

My vote is for a Bootleg disk.

Dave

[Bill Gaw2]

Please look at upgrading the audio side of your universal players. I thought the whole point of a universal player is to be able to play DVD-A and SACD well, otherwise a much less expensive DVD-V player would be sufficient.
I know the power supply and video circuits of the 2900 and 5900 are very good, but the audio side is less so. I am now reviewing a modded 5900 that does SACD as well as Sony's best, so it could be done with a factory player.
Sony has it right though in that their top of the line SACD DVD-V player offers excellent audio playback direct from the factory. They realize that on a universal player, the audio is probably more important than the video. Too bad they don't offer a truly universal player.


Bill

[zoro]

May I suggest looking at PAL, PAL to NTSC performance of your players too, 2200, 2900, dont get it right!

[kucharsk]

I would say definitely a bootleg as well on the Eagles disc.

Hell Freezes Over only has a 5.1 DTS track and a 48 KHz PCM track; there is no Dolby Digital track at all.

I recall this actually was the cause of a dustup on the disc's initial release as I believe the DVD standard requires a Dolby AC-3 track for a DVD to be "compliant"; this is why most DTS DVDs now include at least a mono Dolby track, if not a simple 2.0 Dolby track.

[DThiel]

I'll go to BB today and pick up another copy. Gives me an excuse to pick up more DVD's while I'm there :)

[nighthacker]

Jeff,

Any word on the full fix for the 5900 in reference to the macro-blocking issue.

Ron

[DenonJeff]

Ron,

Not yet, trust me this forum will be the first place I post when it does!

Regards,

[ravisudhir]

Originally posted by Grubert
Jeff, so much for my Nostradamus skills. :p

If it isn't too late in the game, I have a suggestion for future players that you could relay to the Japanese engineers. It only affects European players, but it is rather bothersome, and it could be solved with next to no expense.

Just tell them the following:

Force two-channel downmix on the SCART audio channels, regardless of audio channel setup.

Explanation:

In current Denon universal players, if you set up speaker configuration to "multi-channel", the audio channels of the SCART plug carry only the front L+R channels, which is rather catastrophic - you lose all the center channel and most dialogue with it when you want to watch a DVD on your TV without turning on the amplifier.

An example of what should be done can be found on the Philips 963SA. No matter how audio is setup, you have stereo downmix on the audio of the SCART connection.

I came to know from a reliable source about the replacement for 2200. It features HDMI/ sacd/dvd-audio with Faroudja DCDI. It will be priced at $699 and due in August. I do not know about the other models.

Ravi

[DenonJeff]

Ravi,

Reliable? I wonder......;)

Regards,

[Dean_Mc]

Hi Jeff

First of all thanks for the participation here. Based on your handling of the so called macroblocking I upgraded to the 5900 recently and couldn't be happier.

Second, not a big deal but something for down the road I tried one of the DualDiscs that are being test marketed in a couple areas and the 5900 won't recognize the CD side. Works fine in a 2200.

I bought it as a curiousity, but if the format does catch, it might be worthwhile finding out what the 5900 doesn't like about it.

Thanks again.

[DenonJeff]

Dean_Mc,

We have been working with Warner, however the final spec is not done and definitely not approved by the DVD Forum. I also spoke to Universal and they mentioned to me the CD side is the more likely side to not be read by some machines.

Once approved our stuff will work.

Regards,

[ravisudhir]

Originally posted by DenonJeff
Ravi,

Reliable? I wonder......;)

Regards,

The reason I said reliable is because he specifically mentioned not to divulge this. But since I saw many people coming close to the info, I thought I should share. I have to believe because I saw the specs. You should know if these are correct!

Ravi

[DenonJeff]

Ravi,

Just playing, your right I should know if correct - I wrote the spec sheet...

Regards,

[EdwardETraylorII]

Just damn!

[normand]

Ravi,
Do you know what type of faroudja chip will be in the 2200 replacement? (spec sheet). One can only hope for a better PQ.

[zoro]

That would be SWELL, ravi, keep us posted man!

[DThiel]

All,

I'm happy to report that after purchasing the Eagles DVD from BB, the DTS is indeed working as is the PCM stereo option. No need for concern on this DVD Jeff. Thanks everyone for your input!

[YvesC]

Ravi,

Did you by any chance see the specs of a "3910" ???

I heard it would be be released in July with a MSRP of $1300

Yves

[Grubert]

This is fun!! If we include Ravi's and Yves's information, we have:

Two DVD players:

4D1 (910?)
Similar to the DVD-900.
No digital video or hi-res digital audio outputs.
MSRP $199 - $249.

4D2 (1610?)
Probably digital video output; possibly hires digital audio output.
Think of a DVD-1600 with HDMI.
MSRP $299.


Three universal players:

4U1 (2210?)
Similar to the DVD-2200. HDMI. DCDi. Maybe DenonLink and/or FireWire. ("lots of connectivity options")
MSRP $699

4U2 (3910?)
Like a DVD-3800, with hi-res digital connections.
MSRP $1299

4U3
MSRP $2499

[ravisudhir]

Originally posted by YvesC
Ravi,

Did you by any chance see the specs of a "3910" ???

I heard it would be be released in July with a MSRP of $1300

Yves

For some reason, the guy who showed me this was very secretive. It's almost like I was being shown corporate secrets. He would not even let me look at the spec sheet in full. However, I managed to look at the features which I was interested in and I listed those. He said the Faroudja chip will be a better one than the current ones available, but those were his words.

The model I saw was a replacement for 2200 but he said it is called 2910. I did not understand it, but I did not question him more about the name. I'll keep you posted once I know more.

Clearly this is going to be my ideal DVD player when it comes out. Wonder how the Samsung 940 compares.

[BillP]

I'm also curious about the Sony HDMI player coming out in Sept in terms of video and SACD quality, compared with these Denons.

[YvesC]

Ravi,

It's indeed a little confusing, but I remember a post of Kris Deering saying that there would be one new player replacing both the 2200 AND the 2900, so in this case the 2910 could make sense.


Meanwhile, I've read on a French forum that a *Denon representative* has acknowledged that there will indeed be a 3910 :) :) :)
No further details though, but unfortunately the player is only expected in September here in Europe.

I wonder if the audio part will be based on the 2900 or the 5900 (Iwish the latter of course)

Grubert,

Time for you to write an update: 2910 MSRP 699$ and a 3910 (MSRP 1299$)
We're closing in on it :D :D :D

I still wonder about the 2500$ player DenonJeff mentioned. If I'm not mistaken the 5900 has a MSRP of 2000$ in the States, so would it indeed be a replacement for the latter (and in this case what could bring on the 500$ difference?) or is it a player that will coexist with the 5900:confused: :confused: :confused:

[DThiel]

I find it interesting that both the 2200 and the 2900 have the Silicon Image/DVDO PureProgressive (SiI504) Decoding Engine and the 5900 and the 1200 use the Faroudja FLI-2310 Decoding Engine.

[BillP]

I believe Jeff noted above that the Silicon does not upscale, so Denon needed to go with the Faroudja in the 5900 to enable upscaling via DVI. He also mentioned that all the future models that upscale will similarly use a Faroudja chip.

[zoro]

Originally posted by BillP
I believe Jeff noted above that the Silicon does not upscale, so Denon needed to go with the Faroudja in the 5900 to enable upscaling via DVI. He also mentioned that all the future models that upscale will similarly use a Faroudja chip.

DENON/UNIVERSAL/UPSCALING/FAROUDJA/DCDI..sounds all GOOD, at REASONABLE price point..

Only thing would be WAITING for a CHANGER then..

[BillP]

He also said a new changer will not be until next year.

[zoro]

Thats what I meant BILLP

[normand]

Ravi,
Any news sofar on a possible 3910?

[Kevin C Brown]

I want a 3910. OK, July is only 2 months out... :)

[YvesC]

Originally posted by Kevin C Brown
I want a 3910.

Count me in!:)
Can't hardly wait for the specs!
Anybody???

[normand]

I guess Ravi's hard at work infiltrating enemy territory! Bond...Ravi Bond. (Laughs)

[ravisudhir]

Originally posted by normand
I guess Ravi's hard at work infiltrating enemy territory! Bond...Ravi Bond. (Laughs)

Folks

Ok, here we go. I got more details.

-2910 will not have Denon link.

3910 is due out earlier than 2910 (July/August). It will be listed at $1299. The differences from 2910 are:

-1700 series Burr Brown DACs
-Denon link
-Picture mode adjustment
-RS232 port.
-In addition, there is a question of better bass management in the 3910.

Both will have the same DCDI.

There is also a 5910 coming out.

I have a Harman Kardon AVR 525 receiver and Samsung HLN 61W. I am not interested in the Denon link, lucky for my budget. 2910 seems to be my choice.

Hope this helps.

Ravi:D

[ravisudhir]

Sorry, do not know how the angry sign got on next to my name.

Ravi

[BillP]

I'm very interested in the audio quality, using analog RCAs to my preamp. Do you know what the DACs are for the 2910?

[jigesh]

Thanks a lot, Ravi. Wait for 3910 begins! I have Denon AVR-3805 so Denon Link is important for me and so is Faroudja.

[PhilB]

Originally posted by ravisudhir
Folks

-2910 will not have Denon link.
Ravi

Ravi,

Will either (or both) have 1394 connections?

-phil

[normand]

I would like to know what type of Faroudja chip they will be using?

[YvesC]

Originally posted by PhilB
Ravi,

Will either (or both) have 1394 connections?

-phil


I surely wish the 3910 will have 1394 output, just to keep all options open when buying a new receiver, especially since denon still didn't get approval for SACD being transmitted through their DenonLink 3
I start to wonder IF that will ever happen :rolleyes: : don't forget that DenonLink 3 was announced when the 5900 was presented, this means they expected approval at least since last summer!:( When the 5900 came in the shops they all had a DenonLink 2nd edition sticker

Also I think i-link would be necessary on the 2910/3910, since their analogue audio section won't probably come near that of the 5900, unfortunately.
As somebody mentioned before, for people buying universal players the audio qualities are very important.

Besides, wouldn't it be more useful to have i-link instead of the RS232-port, I really wonder how many people are actually using the latter???

Yves (keeping his fingers crossed ;) )

[YvesC]

Originally posted by ravisudhir
Folks

Ok, here we go. I got more details.



Thanks for the information Ravi, way to go:)

Did you happen to see any picture of the players/remotes?

I wonder if we can expect a facelift like the new lineup of Denon receivers

[Ossi]

@DenonJeff,
When can expect the Denon Players to pass SACD over the Denon-Link?
And can we expect to see a replacement for the AVR 4800?
Thanks,
Oliver

[gimp]

Originally posted by Ossi
When can expect the Denon Players to pass SACD over the Denon-Link?

He said 60 days in post http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3754310#post3754310

[Grubert]

So it's...

Two DVD players:

4D1 (910?)
Similar to the DVD-900.
No digital video or hi-res digital audio outputs.
MSRP $199 - $249.

4D2 (1610?)
Probably digital video output; possibly hires digital audio output.
Think of a DVD-1600 with HDMI.
MSRP $299.


Three universal players:

2910
Due September
No Denon link
DCDi
MSRP $699

3910
Due out July/August
1700 series Burr Brown DACs
DCDi
Denon link
Picture mode adjustment
RS232 port
Better bass management
MSRP $1299

DVD-5910
MSRP $2499

The 2910 should be enough for me.

[BOISERIE]

Were getting close....................very close! Mind-readers we are.

[YvesC]

Originally posted by BOISERIE
Were getting close....................very close! Mind-readers we are.

Since we figured out the 2910 and the 3910, I think Denon should put their product sheets online :)

Come on DenonJeff, it's only a handful of people who are lurking this thread, nobody else has to know about it ;)

[BOISERIE]

Yeah,
What type of faroudja chip will the 3910 be using DenonJeff? Either YOU tell us or Ravi will...................right Ravi? haha

[Veritas]

DenonJeff,
First many thanks for providing as much info as you can on these new Denon DVD players! Now for my questions:

Will any of these new Dennon DVD players support the new dual layer DVDs - I.E. 9GB disks?

Also, since these new players will be made in China - will any support the EDV format?

Lastly, will they support independent XxY scaling (what type of H & V scaling will there be?) - I.E. like the the Panasonic 91, or some of the Chinese make DVD players..or this just in...& apparently the new Zenith 318 DVD Player too.


Many thanks...

[kucharsk]

All DVD players support dual layer discs.

I think you're thinking of the upcoming dual-layer DVD-R/DVD+R discs, and I suspect that they are designed to be compatible with today's commercially produced dual-layer DVDs...

[Veritas]

kucharsk,
Yes, that's exactly what I meant; the new DVD-R & +R dual layer (that's why I mentioned the 9GB capacity) disks...

[YvesC]

Denon Europe has announced a new DVD-1710 for 169 € (or $) for the end of this month
It plays DVD-R/-RW, DVD+R/+RW, SVCD, MP3, WMA (Version 9), jpeg and Kodak Picture CD
It's progressive scan.
See http://www.areadvd.de

And yes, the players will follow the same design of the new AVR-3805 and 2805 (end of June - see also http://www.areadvd.de )
I don't know if I like the green backlight on the power button though

http://www.areadvd.de/images/denondvd1710.jpg

http://www.areadvd.de/images/denondvd1710remote.jpg

[Grubert]

Gosh, you're quick, Yves! Note no DCDi logo on this puppy.

[YvesC]

More details about the DVD-1710 on http://www.denon.de/site/frames_main.php?main=prod&ver=&MID=3&sub=1&action=detail&Pid=144 :)

Click on "mehr Informationen und Testberichte"
In the pop-up window "ansichten" for images, "downloads" for (german) product sheet and ENGLISH manual.

I Wish they release details about the 2910/3910 players soon!

[Cain]

I hope they have HDMI...

[BillP]

I got the impression from Jeff's comments earlier in this thread that these lower-priced players will not have DVI/HDMI, Faroudja, or universal capabilities. The least expensive with those features will be the $700 2910.

[Grubert]

Indeed, there is no HDMI or DVI listed for the 1710 on the Denon Germany site. A bit disappointing if we remember that there are <$300 players which do have it, and some of them from brand names.

So if you want HDMI output, you need to buy SACD/DVD-A with the package.

[michaelv]

DenonJeff,
I just bought a reconditioned 2200 from ecost.com (Denon authorized dealer). How do I know if this player need the firmware update? Can i use the form you provide to request the firmware update with reconditioned model?

thanks a lot.

[Grubert]

As DenonJeff said there'd be two DVD players under $300, I'm postulating that there'll be another model between the 1710 and the 2910.

1710 (official Denon Germany data)
Due end May
10bit/54MHz video DACs
2MB video buffer
No DCDi
No digital video or hi-res digital audio outputs
MSRP €169
Specifications (http://www.denon.de/site/frames_main.php?main=prod&ver=&MID=3&sub=1&action=detail&Pid=144)

4D2
Probably digital video output; possibly hires digital audio output.
Like the 1710 with HDMI.
MSRP $299.


Three universal players:

2910
Due September
No Denon link
DCDi
MSRP $699

3910
Due out July/August
1700 series Burr Brown DACs
DCDi
Denon link
Picture mode adjustment
RS232 port
Better bass management
MSRP $1299

5910
MSRP $2499

[YvesC]

I don't think the 4D2 will have hires audio outputs, since even the 2910 won't have any :(

About the BurrBrown, I think both the 2910 and 3910 will have 1700-series,
the 2910 possibly DSD-1791 like the 2200, the 3910 probably the better DSD-1790, used in the 2900 and the 5900

About HDMI, I wonder if they will incorporate the second version approved last January (I think) providing full bandwith audio transport for all channels (though also not approved for sacd yet)

I hope they will not skip the i-link on the 3910 due to the initial problems of the 5900 with the i-link

[panjj]

My apologies if this was covered earlier in the thread.

Do any of the new Denons upscale (to 720p or 1080i)? I like and own Denon equipment but want this feature in a new DVD deck.

Thanks.

[PhilB]

Originally posted by YvesC
I don't think the 4D2 will have hires audio outputs, since even the 2910 won't have any


Why do you say this? It's been reported that the 2910 won't have DenonLink, that doesn't mean it won't have 1394. If there is no 1394 connection on the 2910 then I don't see how it can compete with the HD941 from Samsung. The only advantage the Denon has is that it is offered in black. But the Samsung comes out at half the price of the 2910.

If the 2910 doesn't have 1394 I'll have to go with the Samsung and wait a couple of years for my next DVD upgrade before I get a digital video out/universal player with 1394 support at a reasonable price.

-phil

[Grubert]

Originally posted by panjj
My apologies if this was covered earlier in the thread.

Do any of the new Denons upscale (to 720p or 1080i)? I like and own Denon equipment but want this feature in a new DVD deck.

Thanks.

The Denon 5900 upscales. So some of the new lineup undoubtedly will.

[Dan Hitchman]

Why don't they add the full suite of WMV HD hardware decoding with support for untouched 720p, 1080i (downconverted from the 1080p files), and untouched 1080p (24 and 30 fps) via an open-standard HDMI v.2 cable output?

Disc-based DRM for Windows files.

Digital and analog output support for WMA and WMA Pro at up to their capable 7.1 discrete surround mode as well.

Fully adjustable aspect ratio and resolution timing settings too.

Why do we have to go with no-name, flakier manufacturers to get the latest technology like V Inc, etc. (although, they are cheaper)? Even the V Inc. only supports 1080i via digital, and doesn't seem to be capable of the full WMV HD 1080p output (according to what we know currently). There are HD televisions and projectors with 1080p capability and more are sure to come.

Dan

[Kris Deering]

The reason for no WMV-HD support is probably due to the fact that the standard for DVD based players isn't done yet. MS is still tweaking it in. While the discs will work fine on PCs it isn't done yet for standalone players. This has me concerned about how compatible the upcoming D3 from Bravo will be.

[Dan Hitchman]

Isn't that one reason the D3 has been delayed?

Dan

[kucharsk]

Originally posted by Dan Hitchman
Why don't they add the full suite of WMV HD hardware decoding with support for untouched 720p, 1080i (downconverted from the 1080p files), and untouched 1080p (24 and 30 fps) via an open-standard HDMI v.2 cable output?
I'm personally rather unhappy with even the WMA capability of the 5900; I'd rather not have even more Microsoft stuff forced on me, thank you very much...

[Dean_Mc]

Ditto

[Kris Deering]

The MS stuff isn't forced on you?? Denon added this for those who use WMA for burning CDs. You don't even have to use it, or register it for that matter. It is all about compatibility.

You are a consumer and therefore have the right to buy what you want. There are plenty of options out there without MS support, but it is a bit sad to see someone pan a product just because they are trying to support as much media as possible.

[Dean_Mc]

I didn't pan the product I panned Microsoft. Don't need it, don't want it, sick of their domination, and for the most part they produce inferior product.

Anyone who believes Microsoft isn't forced on you in some form everyday has been asleep since about 1983.

[Omen]

Originally posted by Dean_Mc
Anyone who believes Microsoft isn't forced on you in some form everyday has been asleep since about 1983.
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

[Pete]

If we were to get DVI-D HDCP on the lower priced (1910?) that would be OK, as it would only require a break out cable to convert to the HDMI input on my projector.

[Kris Deering]

Anyone who believes Microsoft isn't forced on you in some form everyday has been asleep since about 1983.

Seems to me that MS hasn't been forced on me it just that no one else makes a product as good to compete with them. I don't believe the whole "cornered the market" crap, I just think companies didn't get their heads out of their ass soon enough to compete.

[Dave Vaughn]

Kris,
Isn't it the American way now to complain that "life isn't fair" when someone else does things cheaper, better and faster than you? They are using an "unfair advantage" and "need to be stopped!". People aren't willing to put in the work and effort to be the best they can be because they are too busy complaining about other peoples achievements!

Dave

[kucharsk]

FWIW, I didn't pan the product either, but if I could get a 5900 without WMA, Dolby Digital and DTS decoding built in, I would. For that matter I don't need MP3 decoding ability either.

I think it's safe to say most people buying a MSRP $2K DVD player aren't going to use the internal DD/DTS decoders, but that's just me.

You're right, I can buy whatever I want, and I readily confess the 5900's WMA abilities has been one of the reasons I've held back, just as being "spoiled" by the Denon's lack of a layer change has kept me from buying a Pioneer Elite DV-59AVi.

I've managed to actively avoid buying anything Microsoft as much as possible, and if I can avoid it in my DVD player as well, I'd that much happier. I want an XBox too, but can't bring myself to buy one because it's a Microsoft product.

I'll save the anti-Microsoft rant for another time except to say that I can't believe someone who compiles such amazing tech reviews actually says "no one else makes a product as good as" Microsoft; since when did the need to reboot, ever, herald quality? :)

So, to get back to the original topic at hand, if Denon wants to include WMA playback capability, more power to them, and hey, they can include WM9 playback as well, but those will be active reasons for me not to consider it; others of course are free to do what they like.

[Dean_Mc]

You Microsoft fans are entitled to your opinion. A number of your country's Attornies General along with a good portion of the European Union disagree.

Let me put it this way so as not to offend the 'converted'. If you're going to delay a player, make it more expensive, or complex to accodmodate a new MS technology - so people can play ripped off music - don't do it on my behalf. It won't make it more likely I'll buy the player.

From: someone who pays for their hardware and software.

FWIW: This is the third time I've tried to reply. First 2 times browser (Explorer on NT at work) froze when I pushed the submit button.

Now back to the thread....

[Kris Deering]

FWIW, I didn't pan the product either, but if I could get a 5900 without WMA, Dolby Digital and DTS decoding built in, I would. For that matter I don't need MP3 decoding ability either.

I think it's safe to say most people buying a MSRP $2K DVD player aren't going to use the internal DD/DTS decoders, but that's just me.

I agree with you here but knowing how people are from frequenting forums as much as I do, there would be A LOT of rants about lacking these features on a player this expensive, even if they don't use them. Seems you forget even the smallest feature and the wolves pounce!!!


I've managed to actively avoid buying anything Microsoft as much as possible, and if I can avoid it in my DVD player as well, I'd that much happier. I want an XBox too, but can't bring myself to buy one because it's a Microsoft product.

Did Bill do something to your kids or parents or something?? You may need to talk to a counselor or something. I can't imagine the idea of wanting to buy something only to deny myself because I don't care for the company. Unless of course they did something very personal to me or my family.

I can't believe someone who compiles such amazing tech reviews actually says "no one else makes a product as good as" Microsoft; since when did the need to reboot, ever, herald quality?

While I don't really think of myself as any kind of computer guy (I actually hate these things for the most part) I don't remember EVER using ANY type of software or hardware, MS or not, that didn't have some bugs or need for rebooting. I have extensively used Apple software as well and for quite some years I was a CAD technician and none of the computers we used had any MS products on them.

Personally I have had very little to complain about with the MS software I use. I have had far more hardware issues then software. If someone showed me better software to use I would be more then willing to use it, but so far that hasn't been the case.

I say again, even though you don't like the support for MS media with the Denon line there would be A LOT of complaints if things like this weren't included on a high line player like this. Same goes for HDCD, which is also a MS holding. And I think you're in for a lot of disappointment in this hobby because with WMV-HD on the horizon and other MS technologies, I think you are going to see far more MS rather then less.

[Grubert]

:rolleyes:


Let's get back to topic, shall we?

[hongcho]

No wonder we don't see Jeff here... :p

Hong.

[kucharsk]

Originally posted by Kris Deering
I say again, even though you don't like the support for MS media with the Denon line there would be A LOT of complaints if things like this weren't included on a high line player like this. Same goes for HDCD, which is also a MS holding. And I think you're in for a lot of disappointment in this hobby because with WMV-HD on the horizon and other MS technologies, I think you are going to see far more MS rather then less. I really don't think this is true; I don't believe the Pioneer DV-59AVi has WMA playback, nor do most redbook CD players. In Denon's line, only the 5900 does at present.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to want to avoid a company for any number of reasons; some do for political reasons (too conservative/liberal), some for personal philosohpical reasons (overseas operations, support of philosophical causes, etc.), others just because they got hosed ("I owned a Chevy once, it was a lemon, I'm never buying a GM again.") In a capitalist economy, voting with our dollars is pretty much the only voice any of us have.

Personally I think Microsoft destroyed the entire computing industry by foisting cheap cr*p on the world and through the use of intense marketing got people to believe that somehow rebooting to solve a technical glitch was OK. But as I said, that's an argument for the water cooler, not this particular thread.

Going back to the main subject, there are always people who complain about any missing "feature" - I commented earlier about the 5900's lack of a bit rate meter.

Not to drift too much further off-topic, if someone would just make a 5900 with video outs, L and R out and a digital out, I'd be a happy camper, but unfortunately to do that you either have to go with something very inexpensive (like a cheap Sony or an Apex) or something very expensive, like a Lexicon RT-10 (sigh...)

As far as being "left behind" I know that's inevitable with the DVD forum's recent approval of WindowsMedia as a codec for HD-DVD; I guess I will be sticking with SD for the foreseeable future...

[Dan Hitchman]

Microsoft's video codec VC-9 is up for final approval in the DVD Forum's final HD-DVD specs. just as MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 H.264 are. Obviously, for backwards compatibilty in the players MPEG-2 is a shoe-in.

The MPEG group is full of filthy rich, multi-national mega-evil corporations, so maybe we should boycott DVD's and HDTV too?

I have not heard of any other Microsoft product being thrown into the pot besides their video codec (maybe their audio codecs are up for review, but it looks like DTS, DD, and MLP will more than likely fill that part of the specs.).

Dan

[hongcho]

MS's audio codec is "being thrown into" the Chinese EVD standard. :) They didn't quite make it into HD-DVD (although I am sure MS would love to).

Hong.

[Kris Deering]

Other Denon DVD players support WMA. The 910 has a sticker right on the front panel that says it supports it. I believe the 2200 and 2900 do as well.

[Kris Deering]

Correction on that, every player Denon has on the market right now with the exception of the 2900 and 2200 supports WMA.

[YvesC]

Originally posted by Kris Deering
Correction on that, every player Denon has on the market right now with the exception of the 2900 and 2200 supports WMA.

Well said, and now shall we all go back to the topic plz :rolleyes:

[Dave Vaughn]

Topic....what topic?

[kevinca1]

The only thing i dont want in a new denon dvd player is wm9. if denon does this sorry to say jeff i will no longer be a denon fan boy.

[F355]

so whats the cheapest denonlink + dvi player going to be....?

[BOISERIE]

DenonJeff,
Any more info you can give us as to new players coming out soon? Or is Grubert right on the money?

[DenonJeff]

Still to early, entry level player to ship next month...

Regards,

[TauRus]

I wonder if its not the DVD1710 that was announced in Europe a couple of weeks ago.

Jeff, I have a different question. I understand the NDA stuff and that some information cannot be shared here, so feel free only to answer to the extent that you can or want. Have any modifications/improvements been introduced on newer generation of DVD players to improve loader/laser pickup performance and reliability?
The reason I am asking this question is that despite my past not so good experience with Denon DVD players, I am still hoping to give the new gen players a try, particularly the universal players. IMHO, Denon's strengths were always on the electrical side - al that famous Denon sound was a result of excellent work of designing the audio and video circuitries. But when it came to mechanical components, Denon product were not necesserily as good. Past couple of generations of players had certian problems discussed here in detail. What I am willing to know if Denon recognizes these issues and taking steps to finally get rid of them. I hope to hear a positive response and them I will be among the first ones to test the new breed of players. And once again, thank you and other guys at Denon for the work done well.

[Grubert]

And there's the flagship DVD-1 too. It was recently presented at a high-end fair in Munich, Germany. See it here (http://www.areadvd.de/news/2004/200405/230520040002.shtml) .

[DenonJeff]

TauRus,

The laser/transport issues that were discussed, and amplified, on this forum at length, were not a major problem for the 3800/9000 players when looked at the amount of units sold. The service return rate was about on our average, which is a quite low 3%.

However we do recognize that we must look at all things when designing and building more expensive, high performance machines. We do not like to have anyone discontent with our products, more specifically when the discontent is due to mechanical issues - that really upsets my engineers!

So, while I would love to tell you there won't be issues in the future, I am a realist, so we will have to wait and see...

Regards,

[thebland]

Long thread but is there any news on the 5900 replacment model and when it will be available??

[DenonJeff]

Jeff,

The DVD-5910 will be available September, no final pricing as of yet but will be more than 5900 at retail. Would love to give some specifics, but can't yet...

Regards,

[TL1]

Jeff
Is there any word on SACD over the Denon Link on the 5900?? Thanks

[DenonJeff]

TL1,

Nothing yet...

Regards,

[TL1]

Thank you for the quick response. My 5900 is a great machine and DVD-a sounds terrific over the Denon link. Have a Great Day

[TauRus]

Originally posted by DenonJeff
TauRus,

The laser/transport issues that were discussed, and amplified, on this forum at length, were not a major problem for the 3800/9000 players when looked at the amount of units sold. The service return rate was about on our average, which is a quite low 3%.

However we do recognize that we must look at all things when designing and building more expensive, high performance machines. We do not like to have anyone discontent with our products, more specifically when the discontent is due to mechanical issues - that really upsets my engineers!

So, while I would love to tell you there won't be issues in the future, I am a realist, so we will have to wait and see...

Regards,
Jeff, I really apreciate your answer. I am glad you did not take my comments as groundless bashing (which it was not) but a constructive criticism (btw, it was targeted more at DVD2200/2900, not so much at oldr players). I do love Denon sound and proudly own a Denon receiver (AVR3803), and later generations of DVD players had terrific picture as well. If there will be indeed some improvements in terms of reliability of mechanical components and QC, then I am sure there will be many more loyal Denon customers, myself included.

[YvesC]

Hi DenonJeff,

Long time ago you stated that the whole lineup of receivers would also be replaced by newer models.
Indeed we've got the 3805 and soon the 2805, but can you tell us when we can expect the replacement for the AVR-4802? Denon Europe has stopped distributing this amplifier...

Regards, Yves

[Dr.bigsil]

Hello,

I am brand new to this board. I have been struggling to decide between the 5900 and the pioneer elite dv-59. I am worried about all the problems the 5900 is having while the dv-59 has none. How easy is it to get the updates for all the problems of the 5900. I would be using the DVI output into a plasma set and I am worried about the Macro problem. Should I just wait for the 5910 player or just get the pioneer dv-59?

Any info would help a lot.....

Thanks,
Dr.bigsil

[Furious]

The 5900 can have most issues addressed via a quick firmware update. As you'd likely be getting a latter 2004 model the firewire fix and all other firmware fixes would likely be in place already. The macroblocking would presumably be fixed via a firmware update, and if it isn't fixed on the 5900 I'd expected it to still be present on the 5910 replacement, so it's a bit of a wash there. I'd recommend trying to find a dealer where you can demo the 5900 with the same display you have as flat panels seem to be more susceptible to the MB'ing.

[zoro]

Jeff, I most welcome, ur take on QC issue!! Putting more emhasis on, by your engineer!!

You guys have some very good products on hand so, just a stringent QC might make every one happy!

[TauRus]

Originally posted by Furious
The 5900 can have most issues addressed via a quick firmware update. As you'd likely be getting a latter 2004 model the firewire fix and all other firmware fixes would likely be in place already. The macroblocking would presumably be fixed via a firmware update, and if it isn't fixed on the 5900 I'd expected it to still be present on the 5910 replacement, so it's a bit of a wash there. I'd recommend trying to find a dealer where you can demo the 5900 with the same display you have as flat panels seem to be more susceptible to the MB'ing.
Furious, what is the source of your information that there will be further firmware updates for DVD5900, and that if there won't be any more, then the issues will be inherited by 5910? Is this your assumption or a solid fact?

[Furious]

I don't mention anything about further updates, but at this point it's looking expressley as though the MB is a DCDI issue and if the 5910 uses the same DCDI scaling/deinterlacing solution, which I am assuming it will given that it features prominently in the new Denon line, then it stands to reason that the problem will manifest itself again.

[Q of BanditZ]

That merits a big, fat: D'OH!

[Dave Vaughn]

Furious makes a perfectly reasoned assumption here. There is macroblocking on the Samsung as well and it uses the same chip as the 5900.

Dave

[bferr1]

DenonJeff,

Any idea if these new players due out this summer/fall will offer 4:3 shrink over their DVI/HDMI outputs? I have a Sony RPTV that locks onto 16:9 mode regardless of the aspect ratio of the video played. That the 5900 does not pillarbox 4:3 over its upconverted digital output was kind of a dealbreaker for me. I like to watch classic movies and television shows almost as much as current Hollywood stuff, but can't stand watching them all stretched out. The only player that does this from a well-known manufacturer is Pioneer with their DV-59AVi. Otherwise, you're dealing with crap shoots like Momitsu and V Inc. I want to get a Denon very much, so any info you can provide on this issue would be a great help. Thanks!

[Furious]

And I should note that it is in an assumption, and not one that would try to make Denon look like the bad guy in this for not adressing the problem. Rather, I am trying to say is that if there is design flaw within the DCDI solution (which I can only assume, given the expenditure of time and resources that Denon is putting into this) then it's simply an inherent problem that may perhaps be inevitable in the next generation of players if the chip manufacturer can't address the issue.

By the time Denon was aware of the issue they likely could not opt out of design and contract commitments to switch to another solution. It's not unlike what happened with items such as the chroma bug with particular mpeg decoders. You would have to sympathize with Denon if this were the case, as it is not necessarily a QC issue or a design shortcoming that they are responsible for but a problem for which they are likely to catch consumer flack for. Nevertheless, both parties have shown a commendable commitment to trying to remedy the issue and it is not an issue that is being swept under the rug.

[Dave Vaughn]

bferr1,
There is a work around for the 4:3 issue with the 5900. All you need to do is change the output resolution to 480P over DVI (takes about 2 seconds) and then you regain the aspect ratio control of your display because the 480P signal doesn't "look" like a HD signal to your TV wich will then lock it in full 16x9 resolution.

dave

[bferr1]

Dave, your workaround sounds doable except for two things: A) at 480P, you're not getting any benefit of upconversion on 4:3 titles, so what's the point?; and B) with a $2000 MSRP you shouldn't need any workarounds for anything. Workarounds are for Samsungs, D1s and Momitsus. From Denon, I expect better.

The 4:3 problem, I think, stems from the Faroujda chip itself. Every player that's used it so far has the 4:3 issue (Samsung, Zenith, Denon), while a player like the Pioneer, which doesn't use DCDI, has AR control. Either it's a coincidence, or the theory has merit.

I could be wrong about the DCDI and the lack of AR control. If so, I'm hoping that someone here with more knowledge will debunk that theory so that whenever I see DCDI on a DVI player, I won't automatically assume no AR control. Thanks.

[Dave Vaughn]

It isn't the unit that is doing this, it is your display. I have a Hitachi TV and whenever it sees either a 1080i or 720P signal, it locks into full mode, regardless if the image is 4x3 or 16x9, it locks into 16x9.

Dave

[bferr1]

I know it's my display doing this. Yet, some players like the high-end Pioneer Elites and even low-end Panasonics will compensate for this by providing a 4:3 Shrink function. Since it is easier and cheaper to upgrade my DVD player than my television, I need a player that can correctly display 4:3 material. I know player manufacturers don't have to provide it, but it's in their best interests to do so. If they offer it, I'm definitely interested. If they don't offer it, then I have no need for their product.

What is the reasoning process behind including or not including this 4:3 pillarbox function? Why is there inconsistent application of this solution? All DVD players have composite, S-Video and even component - to cover all possibilities as far as connectivity goes. Why can't the same logic apply to this issue?

Sorry about the mini-rant, but I've become really frustrated with this issue. When I learn of a new player announcement, one of the first things I look for is the 4:3 Shrink option. Like I said, I can't stand to watch older movies stretched out. Yet, more and more often, it seems like either this feature is entirely overlooked or I have to pay a premium to get it in a quality DVD player (the 2900 vs. a 2200, for example) when I feel it ought to be standard.

This whole upconversion revolution is great and all, but they seem to have neglected 4:3 non-anamorphic DVDs (and the wide array of televisions that lock these videos in FULL mode) altogether.

[Dave Vaughn]

It may not be able to be done over 4x3 with the upconversion, and frankly, having to watch some material in 480P isn't a deal killer for me at all. The problem comes in if you HAVE to have an upconverted signal. I would be very surprised if you could tell the difference between a 480P signal and an upconverted 1080i signal on my display with anything other than test signals. Also, how much of your movie watching is with 4x3 material? One final thought...if you are buying this DVD player for movies only...don't...the draw of this player is that it does do movies quite well, but the universal aspect of the audio portion is why this player is worth every penny.

Dave

[bferr1]

Dave, I appreciate your comments, don't get me wrong, but the Pioneer 59Avi can pillarbox upconverted 4:3 over its HDMI output, so it can be done. The trouble is, I tried that player, and there was some weird compatability issue with my Sony RPTV, a kind of digital blue smearing all over the picture.

Not only are classic movies and TV shows in 4:3, but music videos and concerts, too. Also, a 16:9 movie might still have 4:3 features on it, like a trailer, or something. In other words, there's a lot of 4:3 out there.

[zoro]

I concur pioneer elite does that denon 2900 did too

[bferr1]

Low-end Momitsu V880 and V Inc. Bravo D1 can pillarbox upconverted 4:3 over DVI, too, so it definitely can be done. I just want something a little better, a little beefier and a more reliable than those two.

[zoro]

philips 963sa does that too..

[tjk]

Can anyone on this forum comment as to which of the new Denon DVD players (if not all of them) will have time delay capability for SACD? Currently, only the 5900 does that, and it seems the only complaint about the 2900 audio is multi-channel SACD is not as good as the DVD-A playback. Anyone have advance information?

[kevinca1]

Dave i totally agree with you and i still do not understand why it is not understood that 1080i is native 16x9. That the aspect of 1080i like it or not.

[bferr1]

Kevinca1, I understand that 1080i is 16:9. No one is even disputing that. My issue is with 4:3 not being stretched out when upconverted via DVI/HDMI and seen on a 16:9 TV, for reasons I've already stated. That is achieved by putting black bars on the sides of the picture, framing a 4:3 picture so that it fills a 16:9 screen without distorting the picture in any way. Either the TV does it, or a DVD player. Since my TV does not do it, I need a DVD player that can. No one is disputing that 1080i is HDTV; we're talking about preserving a 4:3 image WITHIN the 16:9 frame without distorting it.

Now, if you guys like your 4:3 stretched out with no AR controls on your DVD player, more power to you. But for me, stretching a 4:3 image to fit a 16:9 screen is as heinous as watching a 4:3 Pan and Scan version of a widescreen movie.

By the way, the major networks and pay cable channels still broadcast 4:3 material occasionally in HDTV, albeit upconverted standard definition. My Comcast cable box has the option to pillarbox 4:3 or stretch 4:3. If they can get it right, why can't DVD player manufacturers?

[kevinca1]

When you are upconverting it is 1080i correct? It is doing what it is suppose to do with a 1080i signal so there is no way you can blame the tv or dvd player when they are doing exactly what the native resoultion is calling for. I do not watch 4x3 movies on dvds so it is not a issue and i refuse to buy any movie what ever title it is in 4x3.

[bferr1]

Then you are closing yourself off to a wide selection of movies. Very sad. You'd better keep your fingers crossed for widescreen editions of Citizen Kane, Gone With The Wind, Casablanca, or Wizard of Oz. Then, you could truly see those films the way they were meant to be seen.

I've somehow hijacked this thread with this topic, and I simply wanted to ask DenonJeff about 4:3 Shrink on the upcoming DVD players. I've debated this topic with enough people on this thread both here and elsewhere; I am really not interested in doing it any further. DenonJeff, if you're still out there, any information you could provide on this issue would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[Ovation]

Originally posted by bferr1
Then you are closing yourself off to a wide selection of movies. Very sad. You'd better keep your fingers crossed for widescreen editions of Citizen Kane, Gone With The Wind, Casablanca, or Wizard of Oz. Then, you could truly see those films the way they were meant to be seen.

I hope you're kidding here, as none of these films was meant to be displayed in anything other than 4:3. To do so would be as bad as watching panned and scanned versions of today's widescreen films (or worse as the picture would be distorted, rather than simply partly missing). The only worse offense, to me, is colourizing b&w films, a practice that should simply be banned, IMO.

I suppose, to stay on topic, I should ask: will the new 2910? have time delay for SACD as well as DVD-A, and will it be in native DSD?

[Omen]

Ovation,

I think bferr1's comment was meant to be sarcastic; at least that's how I read it. I was actually thinking of replying in a similar vein as bferr1, but I thought better of it.

[bferr1]

My God, people! Yes, that was meant to be sarcastic.

[Ovation]

Originally posted by bferr1
My God, people! Yes, that was meant to be sarcastic.

Sorry,

It's just that I've had the OAR argument with so many people, I'm easily set off (it's probably my biggest pet peeve, after colourization). And on the sarcasm front, again, sorry. I had a misunderstanding recently over someone else's post for the same reason. Without tone of voice, I guess I'm finding it hard to judge people's intent.

[bferr1]

Believe me, I'm with you as far as OAR goes. These upconverting players are great and all, but I'd like one that solves the 4:3 stretch issue. I'm tired of debating the root cause of the problem (whether the TV should pillarbox or the DVD player). I know an in-player solution exists out there and would like to see it more widely implemented, the better to maximize my choices. I'd love to get an upconverting DVD player, but if my only choices are ones that cannot compensate for 4:3 stretch, then I'm not buying.

[zoro]

The only 4:3 DVD I have is George of The Jungle!! disney pls redo that as WS/ANAMORPHIC! That would take care of my agony!

[bferr1]

Dude, I know you probably meant that as a sarcastic retort... but you just admitted to everyone that you own George of the Jungle on DVD.

[Peter Creath]

I'm trying to decide whether to bite the bullet and get a 2900 now, or wait a month or two to get the 3910. I'm really impressed with the 2900, but I like the fact that the 3910 will be a bit more future-proofed (no such thing, I know, but digital outputs is a big step in the right direction). Am I just playing with fire looking at a new-and-untested model? Am I just better off going with the tried and true? Opinions? Advice?

And when is the 3910 due out? July?

[zoro]

If u are bUYING BRAND NEW for about 1K, I would advise to HOLD OFF!!

[Kevin C Brown]

Re: 3910. Well ... :)

I am also very interesting in this player. But ... because of the issues with the 5900, I'll probably wait a few months until the early adopters get theirs and report on any problems with it.

[robertawillisjr]

All DVD players have issues. Most are worst than Denon and never get fixed. Still, I'd wait until September and see. You will probably get a bargain if the new one isn't what you want.

[kevinca1]

Kevin There is only one issue with the 5900 so do not say there are alot of issues because that is not true. Macro blocking is the only issue and not everyone sees it.

[thebland]

Originally posted by kevinca1
Kevin There is only one issue with the 5900 so do not say there are alot of issues because that is not true. Macro blocking is the only issue and not everyone sees it.

Let's not for get that it can only send 480P, 720P, 1080i due to its DVI output.

For those of us who are using an advanced outboard scaler, we want the picture manipulated as little as possible, 480i to a scaler is the best way to go - the 5900 cannot due this digitally....(unless a SDI mod is performed..voiding the warranty).

With 480i, there for only 1 x deinterlacing and 1 x scaling..all the other output resolutions (480P, 720P, 1080i) will need to be re-deinterlaced and scaled again.

The new Denon will have HDMI which supports 480i (as well as the others).

[Kevin C Brown]

kevinca1- You are wrong. When the 5900 first came out, there was also the slow menus, and the DVI output wasn't enabled either. Maybe some other stuff too (something about captions mysteriously appearing and disappearing?). *That's* why even when the 3910 comes out, I will wait a few months and let others find the issues. I *want* to buy a Denon, but we'll see... :)

[kevinca1]

No i am not wrong on either account. the so called slow menus is a few seconds it is not life threatning that a menu is slower. it has been speed up so even then its still a non issue. DVI out not enabled how in the world is that a issue when they had to get approval from the forum???all i have seen is things that are not real issues beat to death on this player and is a travisty how bad of press this player gets when it outperfroms all players in its range as per secrest reviews and many happy owners, as far as the blands statement that is not a issue with the player you want to do that not many do. there would be no purpose in buying this player then using a scaler the cost alone would be a lot and you would not be getting that much better of a picture.

[thebland]

Kevin,

You have obviously never used an outboard scaler or do not have a front projector. You would be surprised what a dedicated box for scaling and deinterlacing can do for one's picture. But you are right, it is an expnsive upgrade. It allows you to squeeze even more performance out of the average DVD.

Also, don't forget that the scalers today have multiple DVI, SDI, component, RGB, etc, each individually programmable for your particular display and each sources impact on color, gamma, etc. The video switching convenience cannot be over looked. Those who have multiple sources with DVI, HDMI, SDI outs require a scaler as no projector is so loaded with inputs. All switching in one box also allows seamless use in the theater.

Back to the 5900, unless this it can output 480i, it is lacking on the video end. Denon's scaling and deinterlacing is not quite up to the outboard Faroudja / Key Digital scalers. The new 5910 will take the 5900 to the next level in performance as it's scaling and deinterlacing can be bypassed (as such an expensive player should allow).

[pnichols]

Kevin,

The 5900 of course has one big "flaw" - depending upon your opinion of the DVD Consortium. ;)

If it's upconverting of 480i to 1080i is so good that the fixed pixel owners clamor for it ........ then it sure would make the 5900's bang for the buck a lot higher if it's 1080i was also run through a superlative analog video circuit and then piped out of a component output. Some of us who love the CRT image plan to stick with it awhile yet, so it sure is the pits that we have to go with a poorly built off-brand to get this.

(At least I think the culprit is the DVD Consortium.)

[kevinca1]

Correct me if i am wrong but dosent the denon use faroudja for scaling? that is the reason for the macro blocking. I do not understand why you wouldnt buy a cheaper dvi player then if you want to do that unless you want the audio of the 5900 which is worth the price.I can undertsand your point on the inputs i dont think any device offers enough of them and they should make the new one with plenty of inputs,

[kevinca1]

Phil long time no see. hollywood is to blame for no componet upconversion but the zenith does do this so i am not sure,one other question cant you use 480p to upconvert with the scaler? what is the difference if you can then ?

[Kevin C Brown]

kevinca1- You can put away your Denon pom poms because you are missing the whole point. I do not want slow menus. I want the DVI output enabled when I purchase the player. I do not want captions mysteriously popping up when I'm watching a movie. (Wasn't there something about no SACD over the Denon link too?) The 5900 had all these problems when it first came out. Yes, Denon has made some strides in improving it, but if it's such a great player, why can't the macroblocking be fixed? It's been what ... 6 months or more? (It's a sarcastic question. I know the reason why.) And if the 5900 is such a great player, why is the 5910 going to come out so soon? I want to get the 3910, and I will wait a few months until it's apparent that it doesn't have any major problems.

[Cain]

Kevin C.

I bought one of the first 5900's and really, really wanted to love it. When I complained about the macroblocking here, most people said I was seeing "the real flaws in the DVD", or that my projector was not calibrated. Now it has become apparent there is a problem with the player.

The subtitles popping up at oddball times, for no reason and sticking on-screen for twenty or thirty seconds was really annoying, and often took me out of the movie.

The slow menus did not bug me, but seeing the layer changes on some movies did, when I expected layer changes to be invisible. The layer change was the straw on the camel's back for me.

At the end of the day I wondered why I had just paid two thousand bucks for a player with these flaws, so I returned it and my search for a new DVD player goes on. I strongly suspect the macroblocking will not get fixed on the 5900, particularly with a new player being only a few months away from shipping, otherwise they would have fixed it already.

If this player cost less then 500 I'd still own it and put up with the quirks, but not for this much money.

I'm looking forward to the next generation of higher end Denon players, hopefully they will not be like the four generations before them with some real deal killer problems on shipping.

-- Cain