New HS20 broken -- Sony won't replace -- suggest a different projector?

[Morris Jones]

I understand that sometimes a product passes through QC and still has a problem when it arrives at the customer.

In mid-March I took delivery of a Sony VPL-HS20. The projector was great, except for one fairly major problem. If I was watching the component input, it would spontaneously switch to the Memory Stick. I could switch back, and sometimes it would stay for a few minutes, sometimes a few seconds, but it would always switch eventually back to Memory Stick. I went through this dozens of times.

Sony had a tech specialist walk me through a service procedure with the remote that failed to fix the problem. I watched it switch to Memory Stick a half dozen times while the service tech was on the phone. (I don't own any Memory Stick products, except that one.)

So the answer was to ship the projector to Laredo for an in-warranty repair. That's fine, I can deal with that, except for one thing. I have to pay for the shipping to Laredo.

Does it seem fair to you that I should have to pay extra to get a projector that works?

I've boxed up the projector and returned it to my dealer.

I don't have a new projector yet. I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I'd like to buy something from a different company that doesn't make you pay extra to get a working item.

Any suggestions for a competitive model?

Mojo

[richardyc]

can't you just exchange the projector at your dealer? oh wait, you are probably not willing to waste your gas money to return it to your dealer either? Good luck having the dealer to reimburse you the gas money or come over to your house to pick up the projector.

[Phreak511]

Let's see....

If the projector was "great" (in your words, then what's the problem?) then you're upset because you have to pay for the price of postage to ship the projector for a warranty repair (fully covered on repair, correct?). And now, after putting on XX number of hours on your projector since March, you'd like a full-refund, ditch Sony, and BUY a competitors brand...AND you're upset that you may not get it??

Correct?

[madpoet]

Richard, it is a legitimate complaint. There's no need for you to be insulting about it. Unfortunately, that is the method of business that many retailers use these days.

-MP

[edwardr132]

Welcome to the world of Projectors. Be thankful it is not an RPTV that you have to ship back to Sony!

[zno]

Does it seem fair to you that I should have to pay extra to get a projector that works?

i have to drive to my dealer for recall fixes on my car.
they don't reimburse gas and mileage. and i paid a lot more for my car than what you paid for your pj.
so if you ask if it's fair? i don't know.

nec seems to have better warranty service.
it says shipping is free of charge.
http://www.necvisualsystems.com/applicationFiles/service/appl_svcprgInstaCareExpress.cfm

take a look at 240k or 260k if rainbow is not a factor.

[Morris Jones]

I'd be delighted with an exchange from my dealer, but his Sony rep won't honor an exchange. He doesn't keep stock. As I mentioned, I already took it back to the dealer.

Sony doesn't exchange broken new projectors. That's all.

Okay fine, I'll ship it to Laredo. But it's good to be aware of this little extra projector tax. :)

Mojo

[rickster904]

Most dealers do not cover shipping for warranty repairs. Some dealers do not exchange faulty units. (Another example is Sanyo.) Yes, it sucks to have to pay extra through no faults of their own, but it is the consumers' responsibility to do the research about service and exchange policy before making a purchasing decision.

Since you're not happy with Sony, would your dealer refund your money so that you can get another brand? You'd probably like NEC's warranty service as pointed out by zno.

[DB2]

I'm not trying to attack anyone here, how much is shipping to Sony from your location?

[Morris Jones]

I haven't checked on the shipping yet. I'm guessing about $30, or something like $70 if I do overnight. I could be way out of line.

Mojo

[mdl]

I think it's perfectly fair for you to pay shipping. This is just one of the risks that you take by buying any product. It's fairly out of the ordinary to get a defective product, but you may have. I know it's not your fault, but there are risks in everything.
I think insurance probably will cost you more than shipping, unfortunately.

[TomMiller]

Morris: For what it is worth, I have been having a similar "memory stick" problem lately, but it only seems to crop up over DVI, and it isn't as frequent as the problem you mention. I had thought it was a compatibility glitch with the DVD player...

Your dealer took the broken PJ back, but wouldn't swap it for a new one? That is just weird - they eat the repair costs, *and* lose the sale.

[dcolonna]

Morris,

No I don't think you should have to pay for shipping either, but I think your ultimate decision to pay it was in your best interest. Projectors are expensive and finicky, and now that you found a model that works and have your theater room setup to accommodate it the hassle of switching brands would probably far outweigh the shipping costs.

~D

[Morris Jones]

I haven't taken a refund on the projector. I'm hoping my dealer will be able to negotiate successfully with his Sony rep. It's not an item he keeps in stock, so replacing it would take several days in any case (about the amount of time for a repair, I imagine.)

I get the impression that you all believe having the projector repaired is the right thing to do, so I'll call my dealer. He'll probably ship it for me.

It's a small dealership. I took the projector back to him on Saturday so it'd be convenient for him to deal with, and I knew that my work schedule wouldn't allow me to deal with it during the week.

I'd hope that he doesn't have to eat any extra cost for delivering a defective projector either. If his rep won't swap the projector, he'll end up with a "repackaged" repaired projector that he'd have to sell at a steep discount.

Mojo

[akm3]

I would suggest a Z2 as a replacement. I like mine.

P.S. I think your complaint is legit, and I *AM* a professional.

-Allen

[daggerNC]

Morris - I feel for you on this one. When my HS10 developed the lamp bug, I paid about $30 to ship it to TX for repairs. Sony did a great job repairing it and returned it next day at their charge (worked better than new so I haven't given it a second thought since then). This is a pretty standard practice though that doesn't make it right. A few manufacturers do it right which is a differentiator for some people.

At this price point the HS20 is very hard to beat. How about panel alignment? If spot on, you have a rare unit adding more reason to keep it, and if not ask Sony to fix both issues - more for your shipping costs and time w/o a PJ inconvenience.

Good luck,
dagger

[Ericbres]

Just an FYI because nobody seems to have mentioned it yet.

I have seen this problem on three occasions with the HS20.
Each and every time it ended up being some freak signal kicked back to the HS20 from the component.
Don't be surprised if your projector comes back from Sony with a repair note of "No problem found, reflashed firmware" or something of that nature.

Yours could have a fault, but like I said, the past three times I have seen an HS20 kick to memory card mode was because of a dropped/erroneous signal kicked back to the projector from the input source.

[Morris Jones]

Just for the information, my only component video source right now is a Zenith OTA HDTV receiver. Not sure what I could do about that, if it really is a signal problem.

I also suspect that there's a physical switch to detect a Memory Stick insertion that might need replacing.

We'll find out ...

Mojo

[O'Doush]

..another issue to watch out for. Doh !

I had mine sent to Laredo at my cost (still waiting for the UPS bill) for a lamp powerup issue (something like what the HS10s had) and they replaced the whole lamp assembly and gave me a new lamp. Afterward, they had Fed-Ex overnight back...all up, I wasn't too concerned about the shipping cost. In the end, eventhough it costs the initial UPS ground shipping, it cost Sony alot MORE for the warranty work - replace the parts, labour and the overnight Fex-Ex (which is NOT cheap, I don't think for a box that big, corporate rates or no corporate rate).

I still came out the winner with a better lamp and they even fixed the misconvergence in the panel as well.

Life's a b*tch sometimes..and as per the other poster, thank god its not a return on a RPTV, lighweight LCD or no lightweight LCD...

Cheers all,
Alby

[Ericbres]

Originally posted by Morris Jones
Just for the information, my only component video source right now is a Zenith OTA HDTV receiver. Not sure what I could do about that, if it really is a signal problem.


It could be as simple as your receiver ever-so-briefly dropping the signal. This could trigger the Sony to search for it's default source ... the memory stick.
2 of the three I had dealt with were HDTV receiers, however, both were strangely enough ... Sony's! Still could be it. Connect the projector to a component DVD player for the best testing! A DVD player, unless physically defective cannot "drop" a signal. Whereas an HDTV receiver can simulate a non-HD signal ... let alone drop signal thanks to interference, power fluxuation, bad weather, etc etc etc.
You could be throwing money out the window in shipping if you don't perform this simple test ahead of time! Trust me ... 3 projectors ... all three were input issues. I wouldn't waste your time if I didn't feel strongly about it.

Originally posted by Morris Jones

I also suspect that there's a physical switch to detect a Memory Stick insertion that might need replacing.


The memory stick is the default input source for the HS20 projector. So, at any time if the projector gets a "hickup" with it's input ... it will search on the memory stick regardless of the presence of a stick in the port.

Again ... 3 projectors in 3 difference houses doing the exact same thing worth of experience. I really think you should try a component DVD player using the exact same cables before doing anything further.

[Trepidati0n]

Nothing is guaranteed and that is why RMA is the way it is.

1. If you bought a shirt from target and it had a snagged when you got it home you would have to spend your own gas money to get it exchanged.

2. If you wreck your car or it breaks down during the warranty period you still need to pay for towing.

3. Your PJ breaks under warranty and it needs to get fixed you need to send it back their depot by ________ a shipper.

The missing word is pay. The fact that your PJ broke really does suck and I feel for you, but the business model in place is a good and effective one for both the business and the consumer. The model stops people from doing mass returns on the most trivial things but also requires them to pay to get it shipped back to you.

Things break and things malfunction....as long as there is a reasonable way to resolve the issue people should relax. $30 to ship to sony to get your PJ fixed is very reasonable considering they will probably ship it back 2nd day or even 1 day. I encourage you to relax and take it in stride.

A fine example of this is when I built my new PC. I ordered all my parts from NewEgg and I found out the motherboard was hosed. Overall I probably saved $100's by shopping online instead of the local BB/CC/Dell/Gateway/etc. So the cost of $10 to ship back via FedEx ground did not bother me at all. I also got the new MB in about 10 working days. All in all, I did well.

Again...I'm sorry your PJ is malfunctioning but follow the process and take in stride. Overall you are probably still way ahead.

-tReP

P.S. If you bought it from a B&M store bitch like hell and make them take care of it. Make them earn that 40% mark-up :mad:

[TomMiller]

Eric: Thanks for the best response regarding this issue that I have seen. As it hadn't once happened with my Panasonic DVD player with about 70 hours of viewing, my first hunch was that it was the LG DVD player/HDTV tuner, as it has happened with both DVD and HDTV, and only over DVI, my plan was to first rule out the projector by trying a different DVD player. I should be able to test a Momitsu and a Samsung 165 tuner within a couple of days, and see if I can get the problem to repeat itself. If everything works fine, I am in the clear.

Morris: If the problem is with the way the tuner and projector interact, you probably need to either get a different projector, or get a different tuner.

[Morris Jones]

Trepidation: I have no complaint about warranty repair policy if the projector breaks, it's just that I expect it to work when it's new out of the box. My projector didn't break, it arrived broken.

If there were any visible glitches in the signal, or the switch happened at format changes, or channel changes, or anything like that, I could easily believe it to be a signal problem. Right now that's a tough sell, because it reverts to Memory Stick in the middle of continuous program with no visible transients of any kind.

I know there might still be something there, and really it's the first thing that occurred to me when I saw it happen. Like I said, it's a tough sell.

In any event, sending it back for repair is the recommendation of the Sony tech who spent an hour with me on the problem.

Mojo

[Alexander]

FedEx Ground from Monrovia, CA to Laredo, TX for a 25 lb. box (my estimate) is $12.36, with guaranteed delivery in 3 business days.

FedEx Ground is your friend. Take it to any FedEx location, or probably any :ahem: FedEx Kinko's location by now. ;)

[Morris Jones]

My dealer is shipping the projector today for repair. Maybe I'll have it back by the weekend. :)

Mojo

[DaGamePimp]

Morris ,

--- I agree with you as I am about to move on to a 3rd Optoma H30 unit in less than 3 months and I have to pay to ship the PJ to Optoma [ $30 for 2nd day ] . They only cover 2-way shipping if it is under 30 days . My unit also did not break it was this way from the factory . While I am not thrilled with having to hand over more money for shipping I do accept this as being standard procedure for most PJ companies [ so it would seem ] .

--- Best Wishes ,
------ Jason

[VSTAR]

Under warranty we would ship it out to repair at our cost for our customers. I would believe most other B/M stores would also.

As for the comment made earlier on earning the 40% mark up I sure wish I lived in your world. I would give my left you know what to make 40% on something like this. I'll leave it at that.

[admiralpumpkin]

Asking a consumer to pay return shipping on a product that was defective out of the box is shameful.

And for those that think it's fine for the consumer to pay return shipping, let me ask, how many times should he ship it back on his dime? Suppose, as has been suggested by another poster it comes back with a "problem not found" sticker, then starts exibiting the problem again. Should Morris have to pay shipping again?

In what way is Morris responsible for this problem? And if he's not, then why should he pay for its fix?


VSTAR- A respectable business practice.

[lee eiseman]

Morris-

When you get your projector back you should probably set it up not to search for inputs automatically.

Lee

[Morris Jones]

Yeah ... I'd already done that. Didn't help. :(

Mojo

[DavidVTHokie]

My dealer is shipping the projector today for repair. Maybe I'll have it back by the weekend.

This is (or should be) one of the benefits of going through your local store. If I'm going to pay a little bit of premium on the price, I think the dealer could handle the repair (shipping the unit, making sure it arrives, nagging them for when it will return, etc.) That kind of thing only costs them time. I'd gladly pay for shipping if they would "manage" any warranty or repair issues.

Mojo - I hope it all works out. Keep us posted.

[placidman]

Greetings,


I had to send my HS10 into Laredo for repair ( under warranty ). It cost me $80 to ship the unit UPS 3rd day. I have to tell you that I was not happy about the cost. However I knew that Sony would repair the unit asap and overnight it back so I wanted them to receive the unit quickly. I really believe that the reason they don't pay for shipping TO them is that they have to ensure that the problem with the unit is infact due to circumstances beyond the consumers control ( ie, a faulty unit etc ). The only way they can ensure this to examine the unit after they get it.

I agree that this is a pain however it does balance out in that they don't play it cheap on the return shipment and they do a good job on the repair ( in most cases ).

I also agree that if you have a unit that works in all other respects keep it. If you exchange it you have no idea what you will end up with. The next one could have other issues.


Best of luck.


Regards,

[Alexander]

$14.78 from Middletown, NY to Laredo, TX, guaranteed 4 business days, FedEx Ground.

[MikeA]

I take exception to the assertion that projectors are finicky. I've had a NEC LT150 for about three years. Absolutely no problems.

I'm looking for a new projector and had considered the HS20 but panel alignment issues (along with being an LCD) have keep me looking.

I agree that Morris should not have to pay for shipping, if out of the box it doesn't work. But why then did it take a month to get in contact with Sony to return it?

Best of Luck - Mike

[KBK]

Morris: Try not to get upset. The problem with Sony is not you. It is A-Hole customers who think that because they actually paid for something that they get to run roughshod all over a manufacturer. Any avenue for a given person to commit to some small shenanigans (like hammering Sony for a new PJ and then ripping Sony totally in the process)... MUST be nipped in the bud. It is from nasty conniving customers and abusers that Sony must protect themselves.

In this small area of where projectors need to get fixed or replaced.. a manufacturer can take enormous losses, IF a specific, and well thought out process and pattern of operation is not put in place. If the process of return/refund/repair/warranty is not strictly watched and adhered to, and if there are not specific and well controlled rules..the manufacturer WILL loose out, big time. Even if the manufacturer's intention is excellent customer service, nasty people (buyers, retailers, etc) will find a way to screw them over. The manufacturer can bleed enormously there via a lack of tight control.

I tend to ask all about the repair/return/ warranty facilities before I buy anything these days. I find out how that end of things is first, then I consider buying. It also gets one in the loop on how a company really operates, as this is where the rubber meets the road.

Repair expenses for the manufacturer (of any given item) is all part of the profit margin too.. so how that is run and done is a solid insight into the value of the item, overall.

[TomMiller]

For what it is worth, I received my Momitsu yesterday, and hooked it up via DVI. No "memory stick" problem. This confirms what Eric was saying yesterday, and it increases the probability that Morris will get the projector back with a note saying they could not replicate the problem.

I think this gets at one reason why companies don't want to pay for in-warranty shipping to them. I used to manage an electronics store (I won't mention it here, but it rhymes with "Playdio Snack"), and I would guesstimate that about half of all products that were brought into the store with problems had no problems, or the problem was with an accessory or attached component. Being a brick and mortar store, we could usually diagnose this quickly, saving a repair bill.

But I can easily see why a repair center would not want to pay shipping costs to their location for this reason. Making shipping free for in-warranty repair would probably cause bogus warranty work to skyrocket. You want to give the customers an incentive to rule out other potential sources of problems.

That said, I think a good compromise would be for the customer to pay shipping costs if it turns out there were no problems, and for the company to pay shipping costs if it turns out there *are* problems.

This is not to call Morris' problem "bogus", by the way. It is a compatibility problem that Sony hasn't documented anywhere. Without having multiple DVI sources, it is impossible for a user to isolate the problem. And who knows, maybe there is a hardware problem with a vulnerability that varies by source. If so, I hope Morris tells us, and I will send mine in as well.

[placidman]

Originally posted by Alexander
$14.78 from Middletown, NY to Laredo, TX, guaranteed 4 business days, FedEx Ground.

Greetings,


Alexander, I am going to take a shot in the dark and guess that you work for Fed Ex. My HS10, double boxed, weighed a little over 25lbs. With the added insurance ( $2000 ) I didn't get a quote anywhere near $14.00. Considering that the package would have to go via air. Where are you coming up with these prices??


Regards,

[ScottyH]

I believe that having a product work right out of the box isn't an outrageous expectation. I also think that if it doesn't, I should be entitled to an exchange. That is why I buy from a store that offers an exchange policy within two weeks. I also believe that if it does break within its warranty period, I should have the choice of bringing it to the store I purchased it from so they can take care of the shipping. Unfortunatly, alot of consumers don't think of this when it comes time to buy. I know I pay more to buy from a good store but I have also avoided situations that started this thread. I too have learned the hard way that price isn't the most important part of ones purchase.

[Alexander]

Originally posted by placidman
Alexander, I am going to take a shot in the dark and guess that you work for Fed Ex. My HS10, double boxed, weighed a little over 25lbs. With the added insurance ( $2000 ) I didn't get a quote anywhere near $14.00. Considering that the package would have to go via air. Where are you coming up with these prices??

Nope, I don't work for FedEx. Heck, I don't even own any stock. I'm just sick of people overpaying for shipping.

I question the need for double boxing, and declared value is a bit sketchy no matter who you ship with (ever had to file a claim?) but even a 30lb box with $2000 of coverage is $23.87. (Again, 4 days transit time.)

Prices are from www.fedex.com, as you might expect.

[Alexander]

Originally posted by ScottyH
I believe that having a product work right out of the box isn't an outrageous expectation. I also think that if it doesn't, I should be entitled to an exchange. That is why I buy from a store that offers an exchange policy within two weeks. I also believe that if it does break within its warranty period, I should have the choice of bringing it to the store I purchased it from so they can take care of the shipping. Unfortunatly, alot of consumers don't think of this when it comes time to buy. I know I pay more to buy from a good store but I have also avoided situations that started this thread. I too have learned the hard way that price isn't the most important part of ones purchase.

Eah, I'd rather save several hundred dollars on each purchase.

[TomMiller]

I think it would certainly be preferable if the store you bought it from took responsibility for exchanges and in-warranty repairs, and the like. But as long as you buy with your eyes open, I don't see a problem. I bought my HS20 from projectorpoint.com. The HS20 was a special order item for them, and they were very clear up front that any warranty repair work would be handled by Sony, not them (they would have handled such things for any projector that was regularly stocked). As such, I can't fault the dealer.

[Ericbres]

Originally posted by Alexander
Eah, I'd rather save several hundred dollars on each purchase.

And get both ...
Nobody should be fooled into believing that you have 2 choices and only 2 choices ...

1. Good Service
-OR-
2. Good Price

You CAN get both ... in both a B&M AND a Web-Based company. They are out there. You just need to ask the questions and look.
But the problem here isn't the store you purchased the product ... it is Sony themselves.
As was stated earlier ... why would you expect the company you purchased a product from to swallow shipping costs just to be nice? Granted ... some do ...
But geez, lets come back to reality. Sony's policy is what it is ... and to buy Sony you buy into the policy. Asking someone else (who has their own bills to pay) to cover YOUR side of the policy is simply (... um ... struggling to find the right word ... ) stupid.
You want someone to cover repair shipping ... sure ... go buy an NEC or a BenQ. You want the Sony brand, Sony quality, and the added features of the HS20 at it's price point ... the cost is shipping if you need repair.

[Trepidati0n]

Sanyo Z2 MSRP : $2995
Typical Online Price < $2000
Markup > 50%

And remember that those places selling for < $2000 are still making profit! And most B&M stores charge MSRP.

-tReP

[ScottyH]

Originally posted by Trepidati0n
Sanyo Z2 MSRP : $2995
Typical Online Price < $2000
Markup > 50%

And remember that those places selling for < $2000 are still making profit! And most B&M stores charge MSRP.

-tReP
MSRP is suggested list, You can in alot of cases get online price at a B&M or close to it anyway. I would rather pay 10% more and be worry free if I need service or warranty looked after. I look at it this way, my personal tme is valuable- I would rather do something I enjoy than spend countless hours searching, calling around for & emailing for THE ABSOLUTE BEST prices. Good B&M's will give you a FAIR price if you give them the chance to compete AND you will get the service should the need arise. If you make an net purchase at $100 over cost what kind of service could you possibly expect. Nada. Been there done that.

[mobius]

Morris,

I do not think you should be responsible for shipping. Yes, manure happens. However, the manure that "happened" was not your fault. It was because the product was faulty. I always insist that the companies I deal with pay for the shipping should a product be faulty.

If I buy it I need it. I don't buy things to return them. I don't need the hassle of extra expenses because of their defect.

[LeonidasVouros]

Morris
I think you are right in demanding SONY to pay for the shipping of the projector especially if this issue (glitch) you are mentioning proves to be a designing fault already known to them.......
On the other hand you should be happy that the this is in my opinion a MINOR problem compared to the ones that other users have with either this or previous Sony projectors...
I have sent my HS10 TWICE for repair for the LAMP COVER BUG! The first time they only replaced the lamp. This second lamp lasted only for 600hrs and finally this time after actually quarreling with Sony they accepted to make all the necessary changes INCLUDING THE BASE.... I think that they will actually take apart the unit to fix a designing fault....

[Morris Jones]

I did buy my projector from a B&M store, and they are taking good care of the problem. They shipped it for me for repair. I'll post again when the projector comes back. :)

Mojo

[Rgb]

Morris has a valid complaint. Some of the responses here have been rude and simply ridiculous.

I would suggest a refund and getting a Sanyo projector. Assuming Sanyo's service quality has not changed since early 2003, you will find Sanyo to be a benchmark for the industry.

I purchased a new PLV60 in April 2002. It was in fine physical condition upon arrival, but I noticed two or three dead pixels in the center of the image, as well as a misconvergence of the LCD panels.

I called the warranty phone number two weeks after I received the unit, and was assigned a single point of contact- the tech that would repair my projector! He quizzed me on the symptoms, and while he explained the dead pixel policy (x number of pixels dead is "acceptable"), he agreed that the location of my dead pixels (two of them) would be a distraction. The tech also noted the LCD convergence issue. He assigned an RMA number and apologized for the hassle. The call was placed on Monday.

Airborne express was at my house by 5pm that day (I called in the morning), picking up the unit right at my door. I didn't have to spend gas to send in their unit, either (so yes, *good* companies *do* cover your gas expense ;) ).

The tech called on Thursday morning that week, to update me on the status and describe what he did to the unit. In addition to replacing the entire LCD block, he aligned/converged the new LCD block, cleaned the optics, and updated the firmware!

The unit was back at my door Friday morning. Never missed a weekend viewing. The projector has been fine ever since. I never left my house or spent a dime for the round trip.

Coworkers and friends reported the same service level with their Sanyo's (through early 2003), which they purchased on my recommendation.

If the dealer balks at the return, call your credit card company and claim defective merchandise. There are no excuses for companies that fail to do the Right Thing.

I'm sure owner's of other manufacturer's products (not only projector's) and other Sanyo owners can give similar examples of companies doing the Right Thing...

[Ericbres]

You are 8-9 months too late ... Sanyo's service has been abismal for some time now. Read around ... the most pleasant tech they had just left as well ...

Although I still recommend Sanyo projectors in many cases, to say their service is above all others (or even in the top 5) is a poor example.



And to touch on one more ... from ScottyH
"If you make an net purchase at $100 over cost what kind of service could you possibly expect. Nada. Been there done that"

I would have to say less than half of the AVS forum sponsors ... let alone AVS themselves ... provide nothing short of STELLAR service after the sale. And many of them do have the lowest prices on the 'net. Once you've been around long enough following the threads ... you will see some really above-and-beyond service from some of these companies.

[Rgb]

Originally posted by Ericbres
You are 8-9 months too late ... Sanyo's service has been abismal for some time now. Read around ... the most pleasant tech they had just left as well ...

Although I still recommend Sanyo projectors in many cases, to say their service is above all others (or even in the top 5) is a poor example.


Sorry to hear that. I put in the "Assuming" disclaimer just in case conditions had changed. I wish they hadn't. I knew if I posted my story, I would "jinx" a good thing ;). I remember when "some time now" meant several years, not months :(.

Sounds like the price competition is taking a toll on the manufacturer's, affecting the service perks...

When I posted my story above, I hadn't read Morris' post today. It sound like his dealer is covering the shipping for him. Looks like a good dealer can help fill the service gaps. Good luck with your projecotr, Morris!

If the reduction in service quality is due to the low margins on the current Z2's and L500's of the world, I wonder if a current PLV70 buyer (which is still over $4000, meaning more profit margin (?) ) would get the "old Sanyo" service level?

[Marissadad]

Morris, FWIW, my 2HD has been to the shop 3 times in 4 months and I had to pay for shipping the first 2 times. On the 3rd incident they felt bad for me and issued a Fed-Ex pickup for me. I could not do an exchange because SE did not even have a single unit that they kept on hand for that purpose.

[Jonty12]

is it just me, or should we be questioning why rgb and apparently all his friends and coworkers got defective projectors. to me that doesn't say much for sanyo quality.

i don't want to have to test the manufacturer's service level.

[Rgb]

Originally posted by Jonty12
is it just me, or should we be questioning why rgb and apparently all his friends and coworkers got defective projectors. to me that doesn't say much for sanyo quality.

i don't want to have to test the manufacturer's service level.

In my experience, with both my personal projectors and from several years of reading on AVS, it is not uncommon for LCD projectors from most common brands to have some basic out-of-the-box (OOTB) issues, like defective pixels, panel misalignment, panel discolorations, excessive dust from the factory, or other issues.

My first projector, a Mitsubishi XGA purchased in 1999, had no dead pixels, but had excessive "dust blobs" out of the box. This unit was a factory refurb with one year warranty. Mitsubishi cleaned it for me under warranty in my first year of ownership. It also had a white field uniformity/discoloration issue, which was never addressed. The PLV60 is my second projector.

My coworker, who bought a PLV60 in 2002 also, had a coloration issue, which was fixed in the exact same manner as mine- at home pickup/ dropoff with 4 or 5 night turnaround. The issue he experienced was discussed here by others on AVS at the time. He hasn't had a problem since.

The family friend also bought a PLV60. He hasn't had any issues, but remarked about the great service from projectorpeople, which I guess I lumped in with the Sanyo service, which doesn't really count for points with Sanyo, other than his good luck with his PLV60. Other "friends" I was thinking about when I wrote the comments above were fellow AVS members that I conversed with while shopping for my PLV60, who had positive experiences with their projector's and/or service (if needed) at the time.

I never really expected any LCD available at the time (early 2002) to be "perfect" (to me) out of the box. Given my experience with LCD's and other experiences reported here, I fully expected to have to get the LCD's converged, dead pixels fixed or other common issues seen on the NEC's, Sony's, Epson's, and other common projectors of the LCD world.

Is everyone sensitive to all these issues? Nope. Some people aren't bothered by one, two, or three stuck pixels. Others probaby wouldn't know how to check for a slightly misconverged LCD block with a one pixel test pattern, and what they don't know doesn't hurt them. I knew how, so I did, and had them fix it. We tend to be more critical on these forums. If a "normal" person had bought my PLV60 as shipped, he probably would have been thrilled with the image, and would have never done anything with the unit other than enjoy the picture. Heck, RPTV's require convergence (and probably focusing, if not a full ISF) OOTB. I essentially got a partial ISF for "free".

Given all of this, I tend to measure a company by how they handle problems, as well as producing and marketing a good product from the get go. The best of companies and products require recalls, field fixes, and firmware updates now and then (your automobile; check recent threads on the Harman Kardon AVRx30 receivers in the appropriate forum here).

It's when companies don't come through when the chips are down (or the pixels are dead, as it were ;) ), when you really see their true colors.

Since I was lucky enough to get premium service when things were good at Sanyo (according to the sentiments here), I've been enjoying a 1366x768 true HD projector with excellent colors, excellent white field uniformity, no dead pixels, excellent LCD panel convergence, current firmware, and relatively easy to clean LCD panels. I don't know if all of this is common OOTB in current sub $3000 LCD's from any maker at his time(?)

[Rgb]

Originally posted by KBK
Morris: Try not to get upset. The problem with Sony is not you. It is A-Hole customers who think that because they actually paid for something that they get to run roughshod all over a manufacturer. Any avenue for a given person to commit to some small shenanigans (like hammering Sony for a new PJ and then ripping Sony totally in the process)... MUST be nipped in the bud. It is from nasty conniving customers and abusers that Sony must protect themselves.

In this small area of where projectors need to get fixed or replaced.. a manufacturer can take enormous losses, IF a specific, and well thought out process and pattern of operation is not put in place. If the process of return/refund/repair/warranty is not strictly watched and adhered to, and if there are not specific and well controlled rules..the manufacturer WILL loose out, big time. Even if the manufacturer's intention is excellent customer service, nasty people (buyers, retailers, etc) will find a way to screw them over. The manufacturer can bleed enormously there via a lack of tight control.

I tend to ask all about the repair/return/ warranty facilities before I buy anything these days. I find out how that end of things is first, then I consider buying. It also gets one in the loop on how a company really operates, as this is where the rubber meets the road.

Repair expenses for the manufacturer (of any given item) is all part of the profit margin too.. so how that is run and done is a solid insight into the value of the item, overall.

Excellent commentary, KBK.

I think the success of Sanyo's (former) warranty service that I experienced was partly due to the required "pre screening" call to the tech, who asked good questions and listened to my answers, prior to authorizing the paid return shipment.

[blipszyc]

Morris,
Might want to give this a try, I've done it several times myself - write a nice letter to the customer service department. Explain that the PJ is only so old and that you find it odd that something new out of the box would break so soon. Ask politely for a refund of your shipping and provide a copy of the receipt and an address. The worst they can do is say no. I've been succesfull in about 7 attemps over the last 5 years. Also, I always buy my expensive products with my Gold or Platinum VISA cards that carry an extended warranty. They'll usually cover the shipping costs if you file a claim. Worth a look in your cardholder agreement!

[actonweber]

I bought an HS10 last fall. After six months and 800 hours of an absolutely WONDERFUL experience the lamp failed (not a new problem with these units.) I paid the $20+ including insurance to ship it by ground to TX. They received it five working days later. TWO days after that, I had the HS10 back in my hands with a new lamp AND HS20 power supply installe at no charge. I don't even want to know how much they paid to ship it OVERNIGHT AIR from TX to NY. I figure the 1/3 new bulb life and higher wattage power supply I got for free is well worth the $20+!

Welcome to the world of retail. You take your chance when you make your initial purchasing choice. Sometimes you have a problem and pay shipping to get it fixed. But, if you choose a company like SONY, you get first-class service and response.

On the flip-side, I bought a Bravo D1 DVD player last fall for ~$200 and was very pleased with the DVI signal output. Too bad I can't get the output anymore! The loader is absolutely terrible - would not load anything but a brand new DVD. I shipped it back to CA (at my expense - DOH!) on 26March and don't have it back yet. Before I shipped it V, Inc. said they would replace the loader with a new design under warranty. A few days after they got it, they left a message for me that they were waiting for brand new players to arrive to ship me one. Riiiiiiight. Three weeks and several emails and phone calls later I have nothing to show for my $200. That is the difference between a good and bad company.

[Kamus]

Phreak, you're obviously a sony fanboy, being fanboys of *any* company won't bring you no good, it's a perfectly reasonable reaction, why should he pay for the shipping? it's not his fault he got a bad PJ in the first place.
it's a hassle enough that you have to be with out your PJ, and go trough all the trouble of shiping it, etc. the least they should do is cover the costs of such inconvinences, sony products are a tad overpriced when compared to their competition, you'd think you'd see that extra money in costumer support.

[Kamus]

"2. If you wreck your car or it breaks down during the warranty period you still need to pay for towing."

Hyundai does it for free. for as long as your car is under warranty. but anyway, it's not like he DID something to the PJ.

[letMeIn]

2day shipping from New York to Texas $60 ..... They even gave me brand new Bulb, and they fixed the problem with my HS10, so I think $60 for shipping was WELL worth it.

[richardyc]

what is the website or phone # to initiate an RMA with sony? I need to get my hs20's convergence fixed.

[Morris Jones]

The number I have for Sony customer service is 800-222-7669. It's mostly a voice automated system.

Mojo

[Rgb]

Originally posted by Kamus
"2. If you wreck your car or it breaks down during the warranty period you still need to pay for towing."

Hyundai does it for free. for as long as your car is under warranty. but anyway, it's not like he DID something to the PJ.

Ford also does free towing under the "Roadside Assistance" under warranty, with reasonable distance limts, of course. My 4x4 Ranger went dead about a month after driving home from the dealer.

Called the Roadside Assistance number on the windshield sticker, and a flatbed hauler was there in about half an hour, who took it to the dealer. No other issues with the truck- it was an EEC cable that wore through due to rubbing against another component- a simple zip tie and new EEC cable fixed the problem.

[maltesefalcon]

Just to add one more element to the mix:

What if you had bought the in-store warranty? Would they honor the agreement or say that it was still a mfg. problem, since it was still under factory warranty?

Just curious.

[HorrorScope]

Sanyo Z2 is a comparable model and it's free shipping both ways for repair work and it's overnight both ways as well. Just to let you know what the competition offers. Probably been stated but I didn't want to read the whole thread.

[HorrorScope]

To one poster in this thread going out of their way talking about LCD's and out of box problems and really focusing on bad pixels. Coming to this forum later last year and till today I can boldly say "dead pixels" is an issue way down there on today's units simpy by all the replies here at AVS. I've seen as many "stuck mirror" issues of DLP's then I've seen of LCD's.

Before I bought mine I was nervous over this, but having mine and reading a lot of posts, this issue "assuming it was a problem a year plus ago" has really been reduced, it's something to know imo but not something to worry much about.

Actually just browsing this morning I noticed this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=382304

In there is multiple DLP's with mirror issues. Can you find a discussion with search about a person with dead pixels on a LCD? They are rare posts...

[Morris Jones]

Here's an update on the repair of my projector. It was sent to Sony by my dealer on Tuesday April 27. He said he sent it to San Diego, a regional service center.

I have the work order number for the repair, and today customer service reports that the assigned technician received a part yesterday May 6.

At least I can track the repair on the web site now, which reports that "repairs take about ten working days."

Ah well ...

At least it's a confirmed hardware fault, and I don't expect it to be returned "no fault found, flash updated."

Mojo

[mandarax]

Voice automated customer service.. lol.. that says it all..

[reedl]

My HS20 story...

I bought a HS20 at a B&M Store in Worcester, MA. Beginning of Nov 2003 Got it home, tried it out on the wall, and the side of the house (probably treated it more gingerly than I have my kids, BTW). and liked the big picture, etc. Saw a convergence issue, (The Blue was three pixels off from the rest of the colors), but did nothing about it since the Basement Home Theater was not finished yet. What I should have done is brought the PJ back to the store within 7 days or so, and gotten it replaced by them and all would have been good.

Fast Forward to Mid Jan 2004, Finished the basement, mounted the hs20, and watched some stuff on it, called up main 800 number about convergence issue. Reported the problem, but did not want to send out until after the Patriots won the Super Bowl. On Feb 2 or so, the projector went to Texas (at my expense), where they kept it for around 4 weeks (waiting parts), and completely changed out pretty much every internal part it seems. The problem is that it developed the Startup lamp bug on this pass, so I called the up directly (call Texas directly), and they paid for shipping both ways. When it came back second time, left right third of the screen now had a definite green shading to it, so back it went at their expense again. I called Texas directly again, and spoke with the person who takes care of the projectors and asked (nicely BTW), if I could just have a new one instead of trying to fix bad one. Well a week later a brand new one arrived, works very well.

The secret to my success, Find the person who is responsible for fixing the products, and be very nice but firm to them. If they like you and you are friendly about it, they will help you however they can.

Reedl

[O'Doush]

reedl, mine had the same startup issue as well and they replaced the whole lamp assembly and returned the HS20 with a new lamp. Turn around time was 1 week and 2 days including a weekend. Fixed the convergence issue as well. Can't complain, so far so good...fingers crossed.

I can't believe how finicky the HS20 can get...

Cheers all,
Alby

[Morris Jones]

I know this is an old thread, but I wanted to update it with the latest.

My projector came back from Laredo in about ten days, at which point the interior of my house was being painted, so it was another seven days before I could remount the shelf and try out the projector.

There wasn't any repair paperwork attached to the projector -- my dealer had already pulled it and I didn't know it was missing. I don't know what was repaired. If I get that I'll let you know, but at this point it's moot.

Meanwhile I changed my component video source as well -- out with the Zenith HDTV OTA receiver, in with a DirecTV HR10-250 HD TiVo. I also added a Key Digital component switch to feed DVD on component.

After setting up the HS20, the problem was still there. Whenever I'd watch a component source, the projector would randomly switch to Memory Stick.

I told the dealer who agreed "it needs to be exchanged." He told his Sony rep who didn't respond for a week.

So I said it's time to return it and buy something from a different company.

I have an InFocus ScreenPlay 5700 coming this week.

My current theory is that with my extra long cable run the component video shield is picking up some RF interference and triggering the signal sensor in the HS20. There are times when it will go a long time without switching, and times when it switches to MS every few seconds. I'm pretty sure it's not related to my video sources. Usually I can even _switch_ from the TiVo to the DVD player and it won't trigger the projector to go to MS.

In any case, I'm sure I'll enjoy the InFocus projector, and I'm looking forward to watching the NBA finals next week.

Oh god ... Shaquille O'Neal in "actual size" ... my wife says that's TMS (Too Much Shaq). :)

Regards,
Mojo

[Jcoffey]

Personally, I dont think its fair that you should have to pay for shipping on a faulty product, but sometimes you do. There are plenty of manufacturers that provide free shipping, and overnight replacements for a product if it's faulty. Epson does it with its projectors I know, and IBM and HP do it with laptops, desktops, or parts needed to prepair them. Is it too much to ask? No. Do they? Not always. Sorry to hear about your problems Morris....

[Morris Jones]

Having a local dealer came in handy in this case. He shipped it for me.

Mojo

[Kerry W]

I have the exact same problem with my HS20 and my HD cable box. I have a SA3250 cable box, connected to my projector via a DVI->HDMI cable. When I switch over to the HDMI input on the HS20 I get a great picture for about 5 seconds, then it switches to the memory stick input. Infinitly repeatable. When I tried component output from the 3250 to the HS20 multi-cable I get some strange rolling horizontal lines, making it unusable.


Kerry

[ralniv]

Mojo,

I would like to hear your thoughts on your new Infocus SP 5700 versus the HS-20. I am considering both units (as well as a few others) and have been leaning towards the HS-20.

Mojo/Kerry,

You mentioned the possible cause as being signal interference. Was your HS-20 plugged into a power conditioner (one that filters EMI and RFI)? Was your old HDTV receiver plugged into a power conditioner? Did you have your component video (i.e. low power) line within 16 inches of electrical (i.e. high power) lines?

Mike

[Kerry W]

Originally posted by ralniv
Mojo/Kerry,

You mentioned the possible cause as being signal interference. Was your HS-20 plugged into a power conditioner (one that filters EMI and RFI)? Was your old HDTV receiver plugged into a power conditioner? Did you have your component video (i.e. low power) line within 16 inches of electrical (i.e. high power) lines?

Mike [/B]

The cable box is plugged into a power strip that is plugged into an APC UPS. The HS20 is plugged directly into a ceiling outlet that is not filtered. Is EMI and RFI filtering something that I can do myself? If not what is the approximated cost to have an electrician do it?

Kerry

[Morris Jones]

No, I don't have any power conditioning.

Yes, my electrical power runs along the same conduit as the video. The object was to plug the projector into the same power strip as the video sources to prevent ground loops.

At least that's what the installers told me. Made sense at the time.

Mojo

[q3131a]

[i]Originally posted by KBK
In this small area of where projectors need to get fixed or replaced.. a manufacturer can take enormous losses, IF a specific, and well thought out process and pattern of operation is not put in place. If the process of return/refund/repair/warranty is not strictly watched and adhered to, and if there are not specific and well controlled rules..the manufacturer WILL loose out, big time. Even if the manufacturer's intention is excellent customer service, nasty people (buyers, retailers, etc) will find a way to screw them over. The manufacturer can bleed enormously there via a lack of tight control.

Ever hear of Dillon Precision? They control over 70% market share in their field. Why? They have a no BS warranty. If any product they produce ever has a problem, they replace it without question. It does not matter if you are the original owner or not. I have seen a 550B bought in a garage sale completely rusted. The buyer called Dillon. They said "no problem". They paid for the shipping back and completely refurbished the unit. No cost. No BS. 70%+ market share!

They make a good product and stand behind it 100%!

[ralniv]

Originally posted by Morris Jones
No, I don't have any power conditioning.

Yes, my electrical power runs along the same conduit as the video. The object was to plug the projector into the same power strip as the video sources to prevent ground loops.

Mojo

Running data cables in the same conduit as power lines is not advisable. The power lines are obviously high power and they can generate quite a bit of interference. The data lines (e.g. component video cable) is low power and is quite susceptable to strong electromagnetic fields and other forms of interference.

The accepted practice is to try and run data cables 16" away from power lines and if you need to have them cross each other then do so at a 90 degree angle. That practice is intended to avoid having the power lines polute the data lines with interference.

Given the budget of your projector it might be worth your while to do some searching on these boards for power conditioning. There are some solutions costing as little as $300 that will help filter out EMI and RFI. Perhaps your dealer can loan you his/her floor model to take home and demo on your own system.

[ralniv]

Originally posted by Kerry W
The cable box is plugged into a power strip that is plugged into an APC UPS. The HS20 is plugged directly into a ceiling outlet that is not filtered. Is EMI and RFI filtering something that I can do myself? If not what is the approximated cost to have an electrician do it?

Kerry

It is something you can do yourself. For the ceiling mounted configuration you have fewer choices though. One product that might accomodate your situation is the PS Audio Ultimate Outlet. I'm not an expert in this area, so I advise doing a search on power conditioning on the AVS forum.

[edwardr132]

Its probably too late to test the HS20 with your setup now since it sounds like you returned it. The true way to test that is to disconnect the power that you are currently using and hookup an extension chord temporarily to the projector to a totally different outlet and see if the problem goes away.

[Morris Jones]

One last report. I am a happy home theater camper. :)

When the HS20 came back from repair with the same problem, and my dealer couldn't get attention from his Sony rep for a week, he and I agreed it was time for a new projector.

I traded the HS20 for an InFocus 5700.

It's a beautiful projector that so far is working flawlessly. The resolution is lower than the HS20, but the contrast is slightly better, and the picture seems a bit brighter.

I've seen no rainbows, and no color wheel whine. If I'm close to the screen I can see screen door, but at my normal viewing distance it's a perfect picture.

The projector has a much larger optical offset than the HS20 -- it mounts 33% above (or below) the screen edge. That puts it 15 inches higher than I had mounted the HS20. In my high-ceilinged living room this is a really big advantage. It meant I could ditch the shelf mount which my wife hated (the shelf itself was butt ugly), and have my dealer put in a standard ceiling mount.

It also has a 12V trigger for the screen which the HS20 didn't. I got to give back the current sensing relay they had installed for the HS20.

Best of all the projector is working flawlessly. The projector firmware is simple and elegant. I also know of InFocus' stellar reputation for service -- things like sending you a new projector for a hot swap on a warranty repair. Then again, I may never have to use their service. :)

In two weeks or so our new blackout shades and drapes should arrive, and the theater will be good for daytime viewing too. :)

Best regards,
Mojo

[sirspeak]

I just came upon this thread after having experienced the same problem for several weeks with my HS20. I first noticed the unprovoked switch over to the Memory Stick ("MS") input within minutes of my Motorola HD box first being installed, thinking at first it was coincident IR signal overlap from the remote. After a couple of dozen such switches, I called SONY's 1-800 people and a SONY authorized tech guy, and all said they hadn't heard of this issue. I was also told by SONY that I should send the unit to Laredo, to service a problem that so far as I have seen is all too common but so far undiagnosed and unacknowledged by SONY, and evidently unfixed.

Looks like sending it to TX would be a waste of time and money.

For those interested, I have found that this unnerving switching happens only when my HD cable box is set at 1080i, but stops when I set it at 720p. My technically unsophisticated instincts tell me that there is something in the unit (which I am otherwise head over heels about) that sets off a hair trigger with the 1080i signal, that somehow reads it as coming from a MS and is more than willing to accommodate it. This would jive with the MS-centric nature of this unit (which maybe the one out a hundred buyers who use MS would find useful), with its built-in default to the MS input, the inability to disable that setting, and the huge percentage by volume of the meager manual devoted to using a MS with it.

I have seen now 6 reports of this same switching issue on the web, with no solution offered anywhere yet. Each call to SONY made so far comes with a denial of any knowledge of any such problem. My conspiratorially unsophisticated instincts suggest to me that it might be a defect in all of the HS20's that if juggled or ignored long enough would avoid a general recall. Maybe that's unfair, but this unit has been out there for over 8 months now. In any event I bought mine to, among other things, run 1080i and I intend to get SONY to get it to do so, or die in the attempt.

[Morris Jones]

Sending it to Laredo might be a waste of time and money, but it's the only option Sony will give you.

What's your plan?

Mojo

[alinor]

Just chiming in here as well.

I too have this problem now and it seems to work on the phases of the moon. Oh I don't know. It could be that, because I can't figure anything else out. The one night it didn't do it at all, and tonight I can't go 3 minutes without it switching over to MS slide. I did separate my power sources though. The projector is on a separate wall outlet. same circuit perhaps.
Very frustrating.

[Morris Jones]

It still (to me) sounds consistent with an EMI sensitivity in one of the projector components.

Mojo

[TomMiller]

My experience indicates a potential link to humidity. After three months of only occasionaly and minor MS-switching, it suddenly spiked in occurrence, making watching my DVI source impossible. Additionally, the image would cut out completely. The only change that had occurred was that the basement was a lot more damp, on account of rain and heat. Getting a dehumidifier has completely eliminated the problem, so far. In fact, the MS-switch hasn't happened at all since. Still too early to call the problem permanently solved, but I thought I would pass this on in case it was useful to others.

In general, all I can think of is that the HS20's hardware is a bit twitchy, and any one of a number of things can cause it to mistakenly think that a MS has just been activated. The problem with me is inextricably linked to the DVI input, so that seems to be one source of the problem, but it is not the only source, as Morris found out to his dismay.

I still like my HS20, and I am keeping it, but I would probably recommend a different projector to prospective buyers. Its simply too high maintenance for the extra $800, without a significant enough improvement in quality and features to make it worth the effort and money. I have been telling friends who have liked my system to consider the Z2 as an alternative.

[sirspeak]

From the HS20 manual specifications: "Operating Humidity: 35% to 85% (no condensation)" If you try to operate it under running water or maybe a dense fog, then OK -- but I have no such issue.

Wouldn't you think someone from SONY might have noticed this by now and weighed in? They don't monitor these posts?

[Mark Lareau]

I am trying to find where I read about this... No luck yet, but I'll find the actual tech-speak answer & post a link here when I find it.

The gist of it was that if there is some issue with the signal (seems to happen most often with a 1080i feed), the HS20 will think it's lost the signal and switch to a "default" input which is (you guessed it) the Memory Stick. This is why your PJ's are coming back without any work being done to them, it what the PJ is supposedly "supposed" to do.

I noticed it immediately when I tried (just on a whim) to send a 1080i signal from my very twitchy Bravo D2.

[makni01]

My 16 day old HS20 was working fine until about 5 days ago when it kept switching to MS while watching from my cable box ONLY (Input A). If I watch a DVD (Component) it NEVER switches to MS.
I also hooked up my cable box to the PJ via component cables instead of the long cable that comes with the PJ and it still switched to MS.
So the cabling is not the problem. Here is what I realized:
The problem started happening after I moved the PJ on a 3 rack furniture, where the cable box was on the bottom, the amp (DAV-FR9) in the middle and the projector on top.
The whole furniture is right next to a plug outlet on my wall.
I then moved my PJ onto the other end of the room and plugged it in a different outlet. NO SWITCHING so far.
Therefore like it was said here, it's some kind of interference probably when it's close to many electrical things.
I'll keep testing and let you know.

[Ox///M]

Just found this and skipped to the end. Sorry if this is a repost.

I mean, this is a SIMPLE fix... SIMPLE!!!

Just add a menu option that allows the user to disable the MS functionality. Even if you placed a memory stick in the unit, it wouldn't switch to it while this option is set to disable the MS.

Also, for the life of me, I think the MS business group must be like the SS. They seem to force this CRAPPY product into every sony device. Honestly, how many people are using their HS20 to display pictures from their MS?

SONY, drop the stupid MS functionality.

BLAH.

[Carey P]

I don't have this MS problem *yet* anyway. But I've been playing with both the HDMI and DVI inputs to get 1080i or even 1280x720p HD to work and have not succeeded yet. In all the blank screens and noisy images I've seen during my fatal attempts, it has never once wanted to switch over to MS. Guess I'm lucky, but I still can't get HD to work through these inputs. What's the point in having them? The 9500Pro, or MyHD DVI daughter card set to either res, with any cable (10ft max) using Video GBR, just won't work.

I've got the HS30 cable coming to try Analog RGB at HD resolutions to see if I've been had. But speaking of interference - hasn't anyone ever noticed the "jiggling" of the image on the screen when viewed very close to screen? If you look at the Windows Desktop, or the internal HS20 Menus close up, you will see the image jumping around spastically, as if the panels themselves were moving. I've never seen this on my Sharp projector. Is this something with the cheaper projectors or am I the only one seeing this. I don't think it's a problem from normal viewing distance. I could start a new thread but thought maybe it was related to noisy internal electronics. I'm on a pure sine wave UPS too. And what's up with that AC plug with no ground wire?

Carey

[Ox///M]

Nice HT setup. I like the fact that you have ST:TNG pinball on the side!

Which UPS are you using on the unit? I was thinking of getting one of the APC units that had the power conditioning.

[Carey P]

The info is at the bottom of the web page. It's actually mostly out-dated except for the UPS. It is a Tripp-lite Smart-Online UPS (1000VA-SU1000RT2U). However, It has a constant running, though low speed fan. Not very annoying or heard when movies are playing.

However, I have also used the APC SmartUPS 1400 with success and still am using it on my other computer system. It does not turn its fan except in test cycle mode or when power actually fails. It's also pure sine wave and can be found pretty cheap on Ebay. I just liked the tripp-lite for the theater since its a thin rack mount style that's black and sits nicely under my amp. Either one takes the full load of my amps, shakers, projector, VCR, monitor, and computer with barely 2 out of 5 LEDS lit. Plenty of headroom.

[sirspeak]

The HS51 has replaced the HS20 and SONY has probably used the chip that they belated "fixed" my HS20 with in February, but if there are any HS20 buyers out there who are having the MS switch....

SONY finally acknowledged the Memory Stick mode switching issue on the HS20 troubleshooting page, but only gives you "repair" in Texas (you ship at your expense -- $70+ with insurance at least) as an option after you go through the nonsense list of tests that they put up to make you think it may be something other than a design/part defect.

This may not be your experience but after sending my HS20 to SONY and waiting 3 weeks I got a call from Laredo telling me that the MS issue was fixed by replacing a defective chip BUT that my unit was not workng properly because after 680 hours of use (shown on the internal lamp meter) I had not replaced the air filter -- which they claimed was dust encrusted. They further claimed that this supposed neglect on my part caused the lamp to become overheated and to turn off unprovoked. (Does your manual say something other than 1000 hours to replace the filter ? / Not even the new HS51 varies from this!) SONY then offered on the phone then to fix this issue -- not an issue before sending it off -- at my cost, $300. After several unsatisfactory phone calls with the highest SONY people they would allow me to get to, they offered to"split it" with me. I refused and said do nothing else and just send it back. Some days later I got my HS20 back and it was accompanied by a letter from SONY saying that it would not work, and to remember to check the air filter every two weeks. Check EVERY TWO WEEKS. Nowhere will you read this so you can "remember" this ridiculous high-maintenance requirement!

After letting the returned machine sit untouched for several weeks (too sick to my stomach over this to want to), I opened it up to examine the filter. SONY hadn't replaced it. It was a bit gray but not all that dusty, but I put in a new one. I hooked up the projector in its ceiling mount. Now, for the past 2 months, it has never worked better. I've had it going for 12-15 hours at a time, and it hasn't turned itself off as SONY claimed. So you tell me -- either SONY repair doesn't know what they are doing OR they tried to extract $300 from me after blaming me for doing just what the manual prescribes.

SONY was for decades my first choice for all electronics, as it was for the HS20. Now following this experience, I'll skip even looking at anything SONY hereafter.

[blipszyc]

[QUOTE=sirspeak]SONY finally acknowledged the Memory Stick mode switching issue on the HS20 troubleshooting page, but only gives you "repair" in Texas (you ship at your expense -- $70+ with insurance at least) as an option after you go through the nonsense list of tests that they put up to make you think it may be something other than a design/part defect.[/QUOTE]Sorry to dig this one up...
Can anyone else confirm this? I've had my HS20 hooked up for a few months now and started seeing the problem over my HDMI cable and DVD player. I switched to DVI and the problem went away. I just recently plugged in an HD DVR from my cable company, and the problem has come back. Just like others, some days it goes crazy, other days its fine. Today, as a matter of fact, it was doing it for the first 20 minutes or so, and then stopped. After reading through this thread and others I'm leaning toward the 1080 theory, but then I remembered that my DVD player was outputting 720 over HDMI and the problem happened too.

If there is indeed a fix for it, that's great to hear. I also have a misconvergence issue, but was going to let it slide as a couple clicks of defocusing seems to have helped.

As to your issue with the filter, the manual does reccomend 1000 hours so the Sony guys are full of crap.