X1 and the DVB318

[DrWoo]

I would like to know what people think of the Zenith DVB318 with the X1. Is there a very noticeable difference in picture quality (PQ) using the up-scaling capabilities of the DVB318 (1080i) through Component video via VGA port of the X1 compared to using a regular DVD player that is producing a 480i or 480p signal? Doesn’t the X1 do up-scaling? Does the DVB318 do that much better job of scaling than the X1?

Thanks,
Dr.Woo!

[Q of BanditZ]

Have you read that long dvb318 thread? Or at least the last 2-3 pages? I think I saw several X1 owners in that, so you may want to jump in!

;)

[DrWoo]

Yeah I read it, but I didn't want to take that thread off topic by turning it into an X1 thread. So I figured I would spin a new thread devoted to the X1 and 318 combo.

Plus I wanted some more clarification.

Thanks,
Dr.Woo!

[dropzone7]

DrWoo, I have the X1(SP4800) and plan on getting the 318 player. I think the first thing to explain is that the only time the projector is scaling is when you have it connected via a lesser connection like S-video. If you currently have your projector run with component cables through the VGA port then Faroudja is turned off. You are only seeing the fruits of any onboard processing that your DVD player is doing and a progressive scan picture as opposed to 480i interlaced. The X1 Faroudja chip does a good job of scaling the 480i interlaced input but I still prefer component connection to my progressive scan DVD player. I think that the excitement is over the fact that this player will upconvert your 480 signal to 720p or 1080i through that same component connection. Here, you are reaping the benefit of letting the Faroudja equipment on board the player do the hard work while your projector does what it was intended to do, shoot an image onto your screen. I have HD cable and I can tell you that 1080i looks awesome on the X1 and if this player will mimic that effect on DVD output then I am certainly excited to get it. I'm sure the projector will need to be recalibrated to match the performance of this player but that should only be a few short minutes and well worth the time to get it right. Good luck, I hope it works out well for us X1 owners.

[DrWoo]

First thanks for responding. I'm a little confused. I was under the impression that the faroudja does not do the scaling, but rather the pixelworks processor does that. I'm aware that the faroudja is used for de-interlacing and it does not de-interlace any video source that runs through the vga port since it is assumed that the source is progressive.

I'm fairly certain that the x1(4800) scales a dvd 480p video source through the vga port. If it didn't then the image wouldn't fill the screen.

So the question is the 318 scaler better than the X1 pixel works scaler.

Thanks,
Dr.Woo!



Originally posted by dropzone7
DrWoo, I have the X1(SP4800) and plan on getting the 318 player. I think the first thing to explain is that the only time the projector is scaling is when you have it connected via a lesser connection like S-video. If you currently have your projector run with component cables through the VGA port then Faroudja is turned off. You are only seeing the fruits of any onboard processing that your DVD player is doing and a progressive scan picture as opposed to 480i interlaced. The X1 Faroudja chip does a good job of scaling the 480i interlaced input but I still prefer component connection to my progressive scan DVD player.

[kenstr]

DrWoo, You are correct - the pixelworks chip does the scaling.

If you have not read the X1 faq - check out section 6.1 - it will tell you all about how the X1 scales,crops, etc the different incoming signals.

X1 faq (http://members.shaw.ca/technut/x1faq/)

I'm note sure that it is a question of if the 318 scaler is better. The X1 is going to scale the 1080i input to 800x450 anyway to fit the display panel.

I think the only time the Q of "is the X1 PQ better" is when comparing a 480i signal that is converted to 480p by the X1 to that of a direct 480p signal.

[DrWoo]

Thanks for the link. I've read through the faq before.

I think the real question I'm still trying to get at (and I suspect it is the one that only matters) is there a major noticable improvement in picture quality going from a standard DVD player producing 480p through the component video via vga port verse the 318 up scaled 1080i on the X1?

Thanks for stearing me back to the right question.



Originally posted by kenstr
DrWoo, You are correct - the pixelworks chip does the scaling.

If you have not read the X1 faq - check out section 6.1 - it will tell you all about how the X1 scales,crops, etc the different incoming signals.

X1 faq (http://members.shaw.ca/technut/x1faq/)

I'm note sure that it is a question of if the 318 scaler is better. The X1 is going to scale the 1080i input to 800x450 anyway to fit the display panel.

I think the only time the Q of "is the X1 PQ better" is when comparing a 480i signal that is converted to 480p by the X1 to that of a direct 480p signal.

[kenstr]

Well a few X1 owners think so (from reading the entire 318 thread).

I'm hoping they are correct, since I have an X1 and ordered the 318 last week.....

Time will tell.

[mystery]

Yes, the quality improves immensely!!

I have the X1 and the LG/Zenith player and I noticed the difference right away. I have a 92" Da-Lite HCMW screen and I sit at 11.5 feet away from it. This DVD player has reduced the screendoor perception to virtually nil. The picture is smooth and seamless, detailed with great blacks and shadow detail and contrast. Almost 3-D like and certainly comparable to the way HD looks from BellExpressVu with the Echostar 6000 receiver.

Every single DVD I've put in has looked way better on this player. You should see the scene in 'Seabiscuit' where they let the horse go for a run through the countryside and the changing leaves on the trees, the grass, the cobblestone bridge, all are phenomenal on this player. Same with other movies I've tried like Die Another Day, Planet of the Apes, Goldmember, The Fifth Element, Batman (the original), Master and Commander. They all upconvert to 1080i through component and look marvellous. Way better than my Sony which I've since retired.

[DrWoo]

That's the type of review I needed to see.

[Q of BanditZ]

Nice. I have some friends that are going to want to know about this. ;)

[seattlephi]

I've heard both sides of the story on this one- i.e. A DVD at 480p through the VGA will look "the best" because it is a 1 to 1 pixel mapping (well except for those cropped pixels- but's thats a different subject) or that 1080i looks better... I'll try to point out the reasons that I've read for either side-


Argument #1- Keeping an image as close to the source is the best possible method- This side believes the best image for the x1 will be at 480p as it doesn't have to scale and descale the image. Since the X1 is a fixed-pixel display (800x600), this method would introduce the least amount of artifacts coming from the dvd to the picture. Also, since the deinterlacing was done at the dvd level (digital domain) and with the faroudja chip, this will result in the cleanest possible image. Also, people of this mindset tend to believe that the source material is the most importnat, and that's why a DVD is only 480, and no magic is going to make it have additonal picture quality. It's like the garbage in/ garbage out theory.....

Argument #2 - Picture Quality is comprised of more than just resolution and going for the 1 to 1 pixel mapping- there is additional factors such as color depth, tones, saturation, etc. This is why that HDTV looks so beautiful on an X1, even though it's native display is only 800x600. By scaling the image on the DVB318 and using the faroudja chip in the digital domain before it passes the 1080i signal, it has the opportunity to re-author and produce an amazing image in the digital domain,and then pass that new image to the projector. I think many people in the DVB318 thread have mentioned the amount of "additional detail and 3d-like quality in the colors and other areas."

Consequently I believe that the DVB318 with the faroudja chip is creating a very good 1080i image- I'm not sure exactly how the faroudja algorithims work, but if they can make a straight line using more pixels, it would have a better image than a straight line using less pixels (i.e. zoom in on any ms office line and you know what I'm talking about- the closer you get the more jagged it gets i.e. the more pixels the better) Also, if it can provide more rich and vibrant colors, it would obviously improve the picture quality. I don't know why the faroudja chip would produce better quality colors at the 1080i level to the 480p level, but perhaps this would account for the difference on the X1. I'd love to hear some thoughts from some people that are more knowledgable than I. Anyway, I order a DVB318 for the purposes of testing both out. I'm sure either 480p or 1080i will be better than my ps2 player! In the end, it just matters to what you prefer, so as long as you like it, go for it!

[Steve R H]

This is the thread for me! I am a current X1 user and I have the 318 ordered (due Tuesday). My current setup is with a Pioneer DV-440 feeding 480i to the X1 via s-video. I have been VERY pleased with this setup since getting my X1 in Jan, but based on the faith of the promising reports on this (and other) forums I ordered the 318. My new component cables arrived today. Already have the Infocus vega-component adapter (never used).

I'm trying to temper my expectations - the reality is if the 318 delivers better PQ at all then I will be happy. Two concerns/questions since I have a DIY 80"x45" (19:9) screen:

1) Maintaining correct aspect ratio - I am ssuming the following would be the correct/best settings for X1/318. Feedback requested:
a) 4:3 DVD content: 318-480P and X1-native
b) letterboxed non-anamophic DVD: 318-1080i and X1 4:3
c) anamorphic DVD: 318-1080i and X1 16:9 (duh)

2) I have read about sync issues with 1080i and the X1. No experience with this since I have only been using s-video. Any cause for concern? I am running X1 firmware V4.1. Thanks in advance - great stuff!

[Q of BanditZ]

bump for X1 users looking for this thread. :)

[sonick182]

I've got the LG clone for my X1, and lemme tell you. It looks AWESOME. Some DVDs the image looks near-HD!

This is how i see it:

When the DVD player upconverts it to 1080i, it doesnt merely multiply the pixels, but it uses specific algorithms which 'interpolates' the image to the higher resolution. This is similar to what is done in some digital cameras. They claim they are 8 megapixels, but really the chips (The CCD? Dunno much bout Digicams) that actually take in the image are only 4 megapixels. The cameras use interpolation to upconvert them to 8 megapixels.

Thats half of the story.

The second half, is when the X1 takes the video. If you're familiar with photo editing, and whatnot, you'll know that taking a big image and resizing it smaller will create a better looking image than taking a small image and resizing it to the larger size. For example, you have a wallpaper image only available in two resolutions, 1024x768 and 640x480. Say your screen resolution is 800x600. If you want to use the wallpaper, you'd have to go into a photo editing program and resize it. If you resize the larger image DOWN to 800x600, the image will look better than resizing the smaller image UP to 800x600.

I'm not sure exactly how the faroudja algorithims work, but if they can make a straight line using more pixels
THe faroudja chip isnt involved in the HD processing, only 480p.

Also, at first i let the X1 do the letterboxing, but i decided to let the DVD player do it (DVD set to 4:3, X1 set to 4:3). There are no strech problems as well, the X1 allows 4:3 of a 4:3 1080i image (no locking down to 16:9). Heh, 4:3 HD-video, not really to spec eh?

As for the sync issues. I had some sync issues with 4.1, but only occured with bright white flashes, and never occured in a movie (occured in a menu once, and in music video DVDs with lots of flashes, and also some calibration screens from AVIA). I upgraded to 4.3, and the sync issues have subsided,but still occur occasionally (the flash before the menu in RUNAWAY JURY i watched last night lost sync w/ the X1)

[Q of BanditZ]

Nice. That just sealed four more orders for this unit, from my 4 X1 owning buddies. LOL. ;)

[Steve R H]

Thanks, sonick182, it sounds very promising! I will experiment with what you suggested when my 318 arrives next week. Tonight or tomorrow I will be running component cables so all is ready. I think I'll keep the X1 4.1 firmware and see how that works for a start. Then I'll make a decision to upgrade to 4.3 later if I have sync issues.

Did you notice any other changes going from 4.1 to 4.3? Do you have a 4:3 screen or 16:9?

[sonick182]

No other changes going to 4.3

My screen is a custom width, wider than 4:3 but not as wide as 16:9. Basically, it allows me to use the zoom and make the image a bit bigger in 16:9 mode, but still allows the whole 4:3 picture to fit.

[brightbulb]

Jumped over here to weigh in on the X1 and DVB318.

First had the synch problems. Fixed it by:

Upgrade firmware to 4.3
Go into the Picture menu-->Advanced and check the Auto Synch button.
Solved all my problems.

First impressions:

When I first hooked it up to the X1 with component I saw a better picture but was not "blown" away or jaw dropped. But then as I actually sat down and watched a movie little things start jumping out.
Like "look at the detail in the uniform, you can count the threads!"
Color is much better than both my old Phillips player and my Pioneer DVD drive in my HTPC.
In Band of Brothers each segment is introduced on a black background
with white lettering and underlined with a thin red line. On my old player this line was fuzzy, not saturated, flickered and jumped on the screen. On the DVB 318 it is rock solid.


Sound is a step up. You will hear little things you did not hear before.

So albeit all of this stuff is subjective and contains no technical stuff but to just sit down and watch a DVD on this player is a nice experience.
One can technically nit pick this player to death and every brand of PJ/TV will have its own set of setup issues. But for $200 the PQ of this unit on an X1 makes me smile! If a unit blows me away in the beginning and then doesn't get any better I fell its OK. But when a unit gets better over time I'm impressed. With this unit I'm impressed.
IMHO-Two-cents-worth.

[braindew]

To all X1/318 owners:

I have this setup, and am experiencing the "black bar" on the right side (1.5"). This was noticed by some with the LG version and described as a cropped error with upconversion (only seen with 720p and 1080i, not 480p). How many of you have this same phenomenon...I wonder if it is player specific, and if I send it back for another 318 will it go away. I am not comfortable waiting for a "firmware update", because I am pretty happy with our Norcent 501M (Lite-on 2001 upgrade).

The 318 is desirable due to slightly crisper output, better build (more trustworthy), auto play feature, reported better digital sound output (I haven't tested this yet), and future proofing with DVI out.

[braindew]

Bump...any X1 owners coupled with LG/Zenith upconverting player have the right side black band (aka EE)? What say you: brightbulb, BudBray, mystery, Sonick182, and any others with this combination.

[mystery]

I wouldn't say that I've experienced any EE if edge enhancement is meant by this.
I have experienced a leftward shift of the picture which I have solved by a combination of re-positioning the projector and also touching up the advanced controls such as horizontal and vertical etc...
Absolutely no problem with it now at 1080i. I also experienced a shift in the picture when feeding 1080i from my BellExpressVu Echostar 6000 receiver.
If you are sending difference sources to your screen this may be a problem. You wouldn't want to go through all of these histrionics every time you change inputs.
But, you may be able to save your settings as user 1, user 2 etc... Or you may want to mark down your settings for each input and then change them as needed.
You definitely don't want to have to move the projector around every time you want to change sources just to proper position the picture on the screen.
I updated my firmware from 3.8 to 4.3 on the weekend and it did help with the sync issue. Perhaps not totally resolved yet. Too early to tell. Didn't seem to help with the picture shift.

[sonick182]

i did experience the picture shift over to the left (or maybe it cropped off some pixels on the right). I just used the horizontal shift feature from the advance menu to move it back over to the right a bit.

However, this isnt the 'EE' phenomenon. EE is Edge enhancement, which is inherent in the DVD movie itself, not a problem of the player or the display device.

[brightbulb]

I do not have a black bar on the right of my screen.
Is your Hoz. position set right on your PJ?

Try adjusting it.

[Earz]

I recieved my 318 yesterday and have to admit that it is a steal for 200.00 whith eye popping colors and better resolution on the better scenes in movies such as Pitch Black,Fith Element SB,Seabiscuit ect.

The players I am comparing it to are a Denon 5900 and a modified for audio/video Philips 963sa.

The Philips always sounded better than the 5900 as the analog,digital and power supply are all modded.
The progressive board was just recently modded and I ended up liking the picture better than the 5900 whith both players at 480p as the modified 963sa looked equally good at 480p but whith less video noise.

I now think the 318 has maybe 10-15% better resolution at 1080i component than the modded 963sa at 480p but only in certain scenes on the well recorded dvd's.
This better resolution is not percieved while watching one of the better reference dvd's throughout the movie.

The sound is decent but in no way equal to the modded 963sa for dd/dts.

I also notice the softness of picture a little that reminds me of the softness in hd recorded movies like AOTC and Once Upon a Time in Mexico.
Not being able to access the sharpness control ect of the x-1 while using 1080i is the only downside so far.

My 318 shows no sidebar and has synced whith my x-1 perectly so far whith the 3.8 firmware it came whith.

I am not saying the 318 or modified 963sa is better than the 5900 using dvi as I have never had the pleasure of using any upconversion whith the 5900.

I bought the 318 to see if it can tide me over while using the x1 and holding off on purchasing a better projector whith dvi and better resolution ect......time will tell.

When I have more time to watch some of the not so well recorded dvd's I will report back on the advantage or disadvanteges of the 318 whith average looking transfers.

Greg

[Q of BanditZ]

This just makes me chuckle with glee that the $200 Zenith unit is actually holding its own against a supremely modded Pioneer unit that takes it values past $500 easy and the $2000 super Denon juggernaut.

Nice! :D

[mystery]

Q,

Yeah, I still can't believe this little machine and what it does. Leaves us a little more pocket change to spend on other things.

Earz,

You're exactly in the same boat as I am. I too have this player with the X1 and I've recently upgraded the firmware to 4.3 from 3.8. I've had to adjust the picture to fill the frame of my screen due to the leftward shift but it's fine now. I have also had the sync problems but with the new firmware, it seems to be less.
Your dilemma as to what to do with the X1 what with the 4805 etc., right around the corner is shared by me. Now with this player that shows 1080i comparably to DVI, there isn't the urge to upgrade to a DVI enabled projector right away. This combo may indeed nicely tide users like ourselves over until real HD-DVD players become reasonably priced which could take a while. Also, better DLP projectors with higher resolutions to match real HD will be much cheaper about that time as well so we'll have to see but one could do a whole lot worse than the LG/Zenith player and the X1.

[Q of BanditZ]

That's about right. I feel the DVB318, regardless of other mediums, makes about as good of a "half step" to hold us all over until true HD-DVD settles out in a few years. Hey, for $200! ;)

[braindew]

Thanks for the inputs from all. After viewing the THX Optimizer screen with the bars that get smaller as you go left to right (Avia loaned out), it is quite obvious that the 318 is better than the Norcent 501M. From about 11.5 feet back, you can see all the bands all the way down to the right...with the Norcent, they become fuzzy about 1-1/2 blocks from the right end. I have tried the User 1, User 2, etc...but they do not allow saving of shift adjustments. Not a deal breaker, I guess...but it is something to have to adjust every time. I have to admit, that after calibrating the 318...my OTA HD looks much improved (bring on Harry Potter this Sunday).

Earz, since you don't have the same problems as us...what is the build date of your 318 (Ours seem to be December 2003)? It was quite obvious shift on mine (1.5"). Also, have you had to shift any HD video previously and the 318 shows up correct (I had to Horiz. shift to 56 for centered picture).

[Steve R H]

braindew, and all -
I received my 318 yesterday and fired it up with my X1. I also have the "cropping" on the right of the screen (about 1.5" wide as you described). Other than this my first impressions (even before recalibrating) are very favorable and echo what others have said. I will write up a more comprehensive review tonight after I get home and spend a little more time with the 318.

[braindew]

Originally posted by braindew


Earz, since you don't have the same problems as us...what is the build date of your 318 (Ours seem to be December 2003)? It was quite obvious shift on mine (1.5"). Also, have you had to shift any HD video previously and the 318 shows up correct (I had to Horiz. shift to 56 for centered picture).

Bump...Earz, do you have your ears on...OK that was a bad joke (I promise I do not own one Smokey and the Bandit movie).

[Earz]

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
This just makes me chuckle with glee that the $200 Zenith unit is actually holding its own against a supremely modded Pioneer unit that takes it values past $500 easy and the $2000 super Denon juggernaut.

Nice! :D

Actually its a Philips thats a little over 1k modified but that doesn't change the fact that the 318 outshines it on reference dvd's....at least in the video department:D

[Earz]

Originally posted by braindew
Thanks for the inputs from all. After viewing the THX Optimizer screen with the bars that get smaller as you go left to right (Avia loaned out), it is quite obvious that the 318 is better than the Norcent 501M. From about 11.5 feet back, you can see all the bands all the way down to the right...with the Norcent, they become fuzzy about 1-1/2 blocks from the right end. I have tried the User 1, User 2, etc...but they do not allow saving of shift adjustments. Not a deal breaker, I guess...but it is something to have to adjust every time. I have to admit, that after calibrating the 318...my OTA HD looks much improved (bring on Harry Potter this Sunday).

Earz, since you don't have the same problems as us...what is the build date of your 318 (Ours seem to be December 2003)? It was quite obvious shift on mine (1.5"). Also, have you had to shift any HD video previously and the 318 shows up correct (I had to Horiz. shift to 56 for centered picture).

Braindew...same build date of 12-03 and my x1 is shelf mounted and has the stock 3.8 firmware.

I will check it out some more tonight but if this is easily seen...I am not seeing it no matter the 480 720 1080i setting.

Oddly enough, my 963sa was having a little syncing issue in the menus of dvd's and when the movie first starts after upgrading the caps of the progressive board whith Blackgates and doing the green stripe fix but so far the 318 syncs perfectly.

Greg

[Earz]

OK, I did some more veiwing last night and believe I see what you are talking about after borrowing my kids full screen Lord of the Rings dvd.

99% of the movies I gennerally watch are widescreen and I have no sidebar when veiwing widescreen movies.

Although I saw the grayish sidebar on the right of the picture, that would not be a deal breaker for me anyway...especially if it can easily be adjusted out.
The 4.3 picture looked much improved just like the widescreen movies have looked.

So are x1 owners seeing this only on fullscreen movies?

Greg

[braindew]

Earz,

I, like you own very few full screen movie as well. I am seeing the shift on widescreen movies, and I wouldn't describe it as greyish...it is a pure black (like bars on top and bottom) that is 1.5" wide on the right. What is interesting, is that you have an older firmware (3.8 vs. 4.1), and that you are shelf viewing whereas I(we) are ceiling/wall mounted (upsidedown). I wonder if those two differences make any difference. By the way, I have resorted to horizontal menu shift for now...The Last Samarai looked great last night.

[mystery]

Yeah, that's what I did. I think my setting is at 46.

[brightbulb]

X1 with firmware 4.3
Ceiling mounted.

No bar on the screen.

But when I switch over to my HTPC running 800X600 the whole picture gets shifted about 1.5" to the right. It doesn't black bar or crop it just shifts the whole picture over. Hmm?

Could this 1.5" be the difference between HD resolutions and the VGA resolutions that the X1 can't handle well? It doesn't know what to do with the 52 extra pixels at 420p?
How does the bottom or top of the image look? It may not have trouble with the 480pixels because it is not greater than 600?

[SpeedyHTPC]

No blackbar on this side of the house with a Norcent DP-501M, not the Zenith, on the X1 using 4.3 FW for $160 at 1080i. Yes theres an improvement and the X1 does not crop anything from 720p or 1080i sources, only scales. Im comparing the output to the RP-82.

No shifting in my views. That shifting issue is coming from the source.
I'm not a Zenith owner but just to compare I dont have this issue with the upconverting DVD player with my X1.

[Samurai Jack]

Somebody just to humor me: when you see the black bar on the side, try toggling the Overscan checkbox on/off once or twice. I've had something wierd like that come up once and got rid of it this way.

I'm guessing it's the Zenith player, though...other people are seeing this on different digital PJ's like the Z2 IIRC from the long 80+ page thread (which I've actually read!).

BTW, I've got my 318 on order as well, hopefully have it in about a week. I'll chime in with my own reactions once I have it hooked up and calibrated with DVE.

It's gotta be a step up from my current interlaced old Sony unit!

[Q of BanditZ]

Would someone please give me a definition of what overscan is please?

[Samurai Jack]

A definition of what overscan is in general...or a definition of what the Overscan option does on the X1?

[Steve R H]

Sorry, guys. I meant to post last night, but other things got in the way.

Did a partial calibration with AVIA. Big change from my previous Pioneer player. New X1 settings are:

Contrast = 58
Brightness = 40
Did not calibrate colors yet, left at R=G=B = 50

Room very dark, of course, and I am using matte white 80" x 45" DIY Parkland Plastics screen. X1 ceiling mounted. 35 ft. Belden 1694A/Canare cables with Infocus adapter.

I'd be interested to hear others' calibrations; especially regarding RGB settings.

A definite improvement over an already winning picture with my old settings. It now has a more three-dimensional quality than before calibration. Colors are great and blacks are very good.

Excellent picture, but have only used 1080i. No 4:3 discs yet. I have the right edge cropping issue (consistent) but that is the only negative so far.

My wife and I watched LOTR TT EE disc 2 Tuesday night before recalibrating. One big thing we realized is that there is a smoothness and detail in fast-motion images that is really satisfying. Just plain easier and less fatigue to watch. More life-like, more film-like. Hard to describe. Not to mention the better detail and stability of the image. One other thing - the sound does seem better - more detailed (on DTS at least).

[Q of BanditZ]

Originally posted by Samurai Jack
A definition of what overscan is in general...or a definition of what the Overscan option does on the X1?

Just in general, if you wouldn't mind.

[Samurai Jack]

In general, OK.

Here's a couple descent explainations that are probably better than my ramblings.

Very quick and easy overview...scroll down to Overscan:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_6_3/essay-video-resolution-july-99.html

Overscan and broadcast TV...more on the "safe action" and "safe title" zones:

http://scanline.ca/overscan/

[Samurai Jack]

Thanks for posting Steve, your setup is nearly almost identical to mine. I'll post numbers for contrast/bright/color when I get my 318 and do a basic calibration.

I too would be rather interested to hear somebody's RGB settings.

Hey Steve, a little off topic, but what color temp are you running? I'm currently using Cool (which in my 4.1 firmware is actually the Warm setting).

What do people have it set at for the 318? Is anybody able to use the "actual" Cool setting (by that I mean whichever is coolest, nevermind the wacky labels) and successfully balance out color using the RGB adjustment? Love the contrast of the coolest setting...wonder if I can get the blue bias out of it??

[mystery]

I've got the LG version with the X1 shooting on to a 92" Da-Lite Matte White screen. I used Avia to calibrate and ended up with a supremely satisfying 52 contrast and 37 brightness.
My RGB settings have also changed from basically the default settings to 69 Red, 45 Green, and 50 Blue. I find that when I change these settings depending on the movie, sometimes I prefer different values. Also, I think that at times my eyes are tired or sore and I tend to see things a little differently.
Anyway, I'm happy with these settings for now.
I'm using the 4.3 version firmware. Was using 3.8 just a week ago but upgraded to help with the sync issue.

[adopted]

Overscans not available in VGA mode, only video.
Ordered my 318 yesterday and upgraded to 4.3 about a month ago...

I'M READY! hehe

[Steve R H]

Samurai, I also prefer the color temp labeled "Cool". I keep trying the others from time to time but always return to Cool. You are right - it's not the coolest in actuality to my eyes.

mystery, thanks for sharing your setup. What color temp for you with the 318? I will try playing with RGB settings this weekend and post what I find.

Using 4.1 firmware and no 1080i sync issues with the X1/318 so far despite what some others have reported. I'm sticking with 4.1 unless problems occur.

We watched Moulin Rouge tonight and it was splendid except the audio/video sync (i.e lip sync) seemed worse than I noticed before (on DTS). I wonder if the 318 has a problem or if I'm just paying attention more than before? But I did not notice this on LOTR TT.

[sonick182]

Yeah, i noticed the DTS lip sync problem on Moulin Rouge was more apparent as well.. too bad though, wonderful colors :(

THe thing is tho, Moulin Rouge has always had a reported DTS lip sync problem with players, so it makes sense to not see it on other DTS titles.

[mystery]

Steve R H,

You're welcome!

I was using the 'warm' setting ever since I bought the player last June, but in the last month or so, I changed it to 'cool' which may be a kind of cross between the real 'cool' and 'warm'. I found that up until the time I changed the setting to 'cool', I had thought that I was experiencing the best that the X1 could offer. I had tried 'cool' before but preferred 'warm'. No longer! I'm sticking with 'cool'. LOL! Sounds like a cigarette commercial!
Anyway, the colors pop and the screen seems brighter on this setting. The LG/Zenith player just augments that. And the sound!! It's like I've had wax in my ears for almost 3 years!!!

[Q of BanditZ]

Based on that definition of overscan in the link (Thanks!), would I be too naive in simply saying, "Oh, getting a widscreen TV would be the end of that problem!"

[sonick182]

Yes, overscan has nothing to do with aspect ratios

[Q of BanditZ]

Very well, then. Once yet again: Thanks to everyone for the info! :)

[Samurai Jack]

Ah, good to hear I'm not alone with the color temp preference.

I'd been using "Wamest" before...WOW was that wrong now that I see the "Cool" setting. Like somebody said above, I thought I was seeing everything the X1 could do. Wrong! I changed to Cool and instantly I was doing a Homer "Doh!" and slapping my forhead, wondering why oh why I had watched so much stuff in the Warmest setting. Cool obviously made the color balance much, much better, and the constrast is greater, too.

I should be getting DVE in the mail any day now and I'll see if my current settings (done with the THX optimizer) agree with it.

Also, my batch of DVB318's is due in today, so hopefully I'll get an email saying it shipped later. With any luck I'll have it this week, recalibrate the settings, try it out, and report back.

Just read the most recent posts inthe parent 318 thread, and it seems like apart from issues with DVI, good news just keeps pouring in regarding this player. I can't wait!

[braindew]

I am 180 degrees from you guys on the "cool" setting. With Avia (and the proper color filters), you can not get the colors to get close to "0" on "cool" or "warm". "Warmest" gets the colors much closer according to this calibration (but still not perfect). But, I will agree with you that "cool" looks more vibrant...but looks may be deceiving. Flesh tones look washed out, and I know that Tom Cruise has a tan in The Last Samurai...under "cool" he looks whiter than my belly (which hasn't seen light of day in years). Comparing flesh tones after calibration, Harry Potter looked right on Sunday night with OTA HD or the 318. But, definitely try the DVE (does it come with the filters?...I know Avia does)...THX optimizer is out for color calibration if you do not have the color filters (it even states that I think). Have fun...

[Samurai Jack]

Arrgh! Darn your contradictory evidence!

*Stomps off to go obsess about the settings some more...*

Well, I'll just have to see what I see when DVE arrives in the mail. One of these days mybe I'll break down and have an actual pro with equipment come out and calibrate it once and for all. I'll admit perfecting this kind of fine work to be just outside my DIY boundaries. I'm no color expert.

[braindew]

By the way, I did all the callibration after cleaning my X1 thoroughly with the documented procedures from the <$3500 F.P. forum. It was easy, I took the optics out and blew air in there, took the lamp out and cleaned the filters and lens, then cleaned the color wheel with cotton swabs (I used some anti-static, ant-streak screen cleaning wipes for the liquid source...water streaked badly). The image is even better than new...we had three annoying dust blobs that were gone and the mysterious "light ring" in the corner of the screen is gone (I thought I would have to send it back to Infocus for that one...as others had to). But, I don't know how many of these cleanings this player can take with plastic snap fasteners.

[Samurai Jack]

*Begins imagining some kind of DIY solution to hold your X1 together after the plastic snaps expire*

Cool...cleaning wipes for the liquid. Maybe I'll try that when I get in there to clean. I should probably do it all when I take the thing down to remount it with my anamorphic lens. I gotta imagine my basement is dusty with the kind of fine dust that would get on the color wheel.

[Steve R H]

braindew, I hear you about the "cool" color temp. I tried to calibrate the RGB settings this weekend on cool using AVIA and essentially gave up. Could not get get "0" balanced either. Kept all at 50. Nevertheless, I still like the the look of the "cool" setting. Fleshtones look generally very good to me. I will probably try calibrating the "warmest" setting sometime down the road.

I had my first experience with video sync loss last night watching Big Fish. Bright flashes during previews and one or two during the movie caused temporary blue screen. Always regained sync though. This was with firmware 4.1 and sync box checked; 1080i from the 318.

My X1 came with 4.1. I guess I will try my first firmware upgrade. I have instructions from the various threads on this, but does anyone have any tips? Has anyone tried the 318 and SP4800 firmware I wonder?

[Samurai Jack]

Good question about the 318 with the 4800 firmware. Anybody know?

Anyway, I just got my 318 last night and calibrated it with a simple pass in the THX optimizer. I'll do DVE later (and yes DVE comes with filters).

First off, this player blows the pants off my old Sony interlaced player...and that's just in 480p mode. Yeah, the color bleeding is there, but it's an improvement anyway...just so you know what I'm comming from.

Bump up to 1080i...and wow. I definitely see what people were talking about regarding "more 3D" and "filmlike." The fish in Finding Nemo really "pop." The look almost tangible.

And the cloak of smoke and shadow surrounding the Balrog in LotR never had so much depth and detail before...how can I decribe it...like it was billowing out of the screen...very realistic looking. Very different from my old player (I know the Moria scenes very well as I use them for a "dark material" reference all the time). Subtle...but to me, quite stunning. It's that last 10% that makes the PQ really look polished up. I'm impressed.

It took a bunch of calibrating to dial it in...you will just /not/ see any of what I'm talking out "out of the box." But when you do the work to coax the picture from it...(that's "cokes" not "co-axe" people, heh)...you get something pretty special.

I'll follow up with some details.

[Samurai Jack]

First of all, that right hand side black bar "cropping" is freaking annoying. If it wasn't for that, the player would be nothing short of a miracle for my setup situation at that price.

I used the horizontal shift to center what image there was, and then just zoomed a bit to get rid of the bars. No big deal...but it's going to mean I have to zoom a little bit (manually) all the time when switching from XBox games to movies, etc. Still, the PQ is worth this extra effort. Just wish I didn't have to do it. Maybe a Zenith firmware fix will correct that issue?

Unfortunately for me, this means remounting my Pj back a bit further since it turns out I was already zoomed out to near maximum. Oh well, at least while I've got it down I can get the 4.3 firmware on there. I also needed to make adjustments for mounting my anaorphic lens anyway.

The player's signal is definitely very bright. On a 96" diagonal 16:9 screen and on "Cool" color temp, I'm down from a Contrast/Brightness setting of 61/52 on my old player to 47/39! Big difference!

All in all, it was $160 well spent. PQ is noticably improved, even with my basic calibration. I'll have a go at it with DVE to try and do a color balance later. The black bar on the right of my screen came to like 3 or 4 inches...kind of a big deal. It corrects out, not a deal breaker...but I'd be much happier if it didn't do that. It will make my setup a little less easy to operate. Crossing my fingers for a firmware fix for that one (that doesn't mess up the upconversion feature)...but that's maybe asking a lot considering what I'm already getting.

[Driftmaker]

Can someone please post their final calibrated settings once they dial it in?

i don't have a disc nor the magic eye to get the right setup and would rather try and work off of someone else's probably better setup.

my x1 and dvd player are sitting out there looking real pretty right now waiting for me to dress them up

[mystery]

I've got 52 contrast and 37 brightness now. It was much higher on the brightness before when I was using a Sony player.

Cool setting with R at 71, G at 42 and B at 45. Film mode.

92" Da-Lite HCMW at 11 1/2' seating distance from screen.

You need to get AVIA. I use it and it's really good. The RGB settings are to my eyes' liking. I calibrated the contrast and brightness as per AVIA. Your settings will differ according to the screen you're using and the color of your walls. Mine unfortunately are off-white. The gray screen really helps in this regard.

[hiko]

Samurai Jack,

are you able to fill the whole 800x600 panel with this dvd player with a widescreen dvd? are you planning to use this player with your anamorphic lens?

thanks

[Samurai Jack]

hiko...yes I'm planning on using the lens with this player. On the X1, this is very easy anyway...no need for the player to do anything special.

I will set the player to 16:9 and the X1 to 4:3. This will result in the movie being stretched out vertically. The lens will then vertically compress it back into OAR.

The DVD player is also capable of some scaling with the zoom feature, but I don't see why I'd do it that way.

[Samurai Jack]

mystery, thanks for posting for color bias settings. Right now mine are at 50/50/50 and I'm anxious to dial yours in to use as a starting point to try and correct skin tone a bit. I can at least see if your adjustments are an improvment over the default for starters. Thanks.

I do have DVE though, so eventually I'll have a shot at that and try to dial them in myself and see how it compares. I'll post when I do that.

Your setup is similar to mine. I have contrast at 47 and brightness at 39. Cool temperature.

BTW, I've been using 480i all this time and never saw a loss of sync. Last night I popped in Iron Giant via 1080i (omg, so beautiful!) and there's an explosion during the animated menu sequence that caused me to finally see this issue and lose sync. I'm using firmware v4.1...checking the "threshold" box in that version didn't seem to work. I'll upgrade to 4.3 soon and test with the same menu scene.

[hiko]

thanks Samurai Jack for the info,

I notice though with regular widescreen dvds on my X1 set to 4:3 and dvdplayer set to 16:9, i do not get a stretched image. black bars are still above and below the image. anamorphic dvds are stretched though. are you able to stretch regular widescreen dvds with this dvd player?

thanks,

hiko

[Samurai Jack]

Ah, yes...I forgot about non-anamorphic DVDs (they tick me off, hehe).

Anyway, yeah, the DVB318 will allow you to scale such a DVD, I believe (although Zenith just sold out of them temporarily). A lot of people seemed to be after the player for the scaling to avoid using an HTPC. I don't know why more players don't incorporate this.

Anyway, non-anamorphic DVDs being the unimpressive things they are, the other option for me is to just slide my anamorphic lens out of the way, and let the PJ shoot to the screen with no optical modification. I just don't watch enough to be too concerned about it.

Hope that helps.

[mystery]

Samurai Jack,

I'm running the 4.3 firmware. I was using the 3.8 before. This sync issue hasn't been much of a problem for me since I upgraded to 4.3. I did find though when watching 'The Running Man' that there were several instances where I lost the picture. I guess some films are worse than others. I've tried checking and un-checking the sync box and I can't see that it makes a difference if problematic scenes. But interestingly enough, there are scenes which I'm almost positive that the picture will cut out and it doesn't, which makes me think that the new firmware is working.

Yes, let us know how your new settings work out for you.

[Steve R H]

Samurai Jack, mystery, and all,

I was having occasional sync loss with V4.1 (threshold box checked). This was most evident during numerous bright flashes in previews at the intro to the Big Fish DVD I rented. So yesterday I did the upgrade to V4.3, which worked without a hitch (my first time flashing the X1). I was pleasantly surprised to see my settings were still intact after the upgrade.

Tried the offending parts of Big Fish again with V4.3 and absolutely no sync loss! Rock solid.

I am extremely pleased with the X1/318 on 1080i. The right side "cropping" is corrected nicely by the horizontal adjustment on the X1. This works fine for me because the 318 is the only source for my X1 component input. I can see how that could be a pain if you are using multiple sources, however.

Two questions:
1) Lip/sync seems a little off on the 318. Worse on some discs than others. I have noticed this on both DD and DTS. I have played with audio delay on my receiver (Integra 7.2) but no conclusions. Anyone else noticed this? Note that I am running my component cables directly from 318 to X1, not thru the receiver's component switch. Is there a calibration disc that addresses this?

2) On the subject of calibration discs, is DVE preferred over AVIA? I have used AVIA but am considering getting DVE. Not sure if it's worth it. Comments?

Thanks.

[akdude47]

I noticed a few people that stated they paid 160 for the 318, is it still availible for that price? PM?

[mystery]

Steve,

No problems with audio delay here. I have read about some other people having this problem. Can't remember which pj though. Perhaps some of your settings in the player need adjustment.
You might want to let Zenith know about it.

Wayne

[Samurai Jack]

For anybody still following...I upgraded to firmware 4.3 and my sync problems did seem to go away. At least on the discs I have that I know caused it before. I hope Infocus is looking into the reports of people still having the issue (and I hope those still seeing it take the time to report the exact circumstaces to Infocus so they can solve it soon).

Steve said lip sync...I've read elsewhere that that's on the disc istself...and that a player like the 318 might just be making the picture clear enough for you to really notice it now. I heard, I think, the standard edition of Moulin Rogue was a good one to observe a bad lip sync. I don't think it's your setup.

DVE vs Avia. I've heard Avia can be easier to use for beginners. But DVE is significantly cheaper. If you've never calibrated at all, try just starting with the THX Optimizer found on many discs (Monsters Inc, Indiana Jones, etc). That will be enough to get you in the ball park (which can be a rather drastic improvement). Give that a shot first. Then pick up DVE or Avia if you want to play around some more with color balance and the like. I have DVE, but haven't really been through it yet. DVE does contain some HD footage in a montage of NASA images, makes for a pretty demo. Some have complained about it (bad navigation, some digital, some analog instructions confuse beginners, lack of instructions, period), some say it's good. You can get it for like $17, so how much could you loose to try it? Avia is a bigger investment.

I moved my (ceiling mount) PJ back last night so I can finally zoom out far enough to get rid of the 318's black-bar problem. Kind of stinks, because that throws off the proper aspect ratio (they really, really need to fix this is firmware)...the picture slightly taller than it should be. Annoying.

[brightbulb]

Originally posted by Samurai Jack
For anybody still following...I upgraded to firmware 4.3 and my sync problems did seem to go away. At least on the discs I have that I know caused it before. I hope Infocus is looking into the reports of people still having the issue (and I hope those still seeing it take the time to report the exact circumstaces to Infocus so they can solve it soon).
clipped here,,,,
DVE vs Avia. I've heard Avia can be easier to use for beginners. But DVE is significantly cheaper. If you've never calibrated at all, try just starting with the THX Optimizer found on many discs (Monsters Inc, Indiana Jones, etc). That will be enough to get you in the ball park (which can be a rather drastic improvement). Give that a shot first. Then pick up DVE or Avia if you want to play around some more with color balance and the like. I have DVE, but haven't really been through it yet. DVE does contain some HD footage in a montage of NASA images, makes for a pretty demo. Some have complained about it (bad navigation, some digital, some analog instructions confuse beginners, lack of instructions, period), some say it's good. You can get it for like $17, so how much could you loose to try it? Avia is a bigger investment.



Sam....
Just got DVE and it looks like it will take an evening of just figuring out how to use the DVD. Really clunky navigation interface.

It is frustrating because just as you are ready to set something you have to remember how to navigate the DVD. Also, for us idiots...It is difficult to just replay or repeat the segment to hear the directions again.

But it is half the price and like I said after an evening playing around should have it figured out. There is definitely a learning curve with DVE.

X1 issue...after upgrading to new FirmWare, my X1 started shutting off and the red light flashes. I have to shut it off and restart and then it goes green. It never did this with old firmware.

[sonick182]

Disclaimer: The following is from an owner of the LG/Zenith player being discussed, and thus, is biased towards the player. If you have a strong dislike for the player being discussed, do not read the following, and if you do so, remember it is just what I feel, and is in no way, shape, or form, the truth.

(seeing how some other threads regarding this player have been gettin really heated in some forums ;) i thought the disclaimer is a good idea)

After owning the LG7832 for a few weeks, I can honestly say that for the X1 and its owners (or even any other display device that DOES NOT lock into 16:9 ratio on HD-signals), the LG DV7832/Zenith DVB318 is the BEST DVD PLAYER in terms of Value, Reliability and Video Quality (not incl. HTPC of course :P )

Why not others (at least the current ones on the market)?
vs. Momitsu v880 - Though much more reliable than the other popular upconverting player, the Bravo D1, The momitsu is more expensive than the Zenith/LG. However, the momitsu does have more features with its higher price tag such as manually controlling resolutions. But i think with most X1 owners, who are pretty much just starting into Projectors, the 1:1 pixel mapping and custom resolutions would be overkill. For higher end projectors with higher resolutions, the Momitsu may be a better choice due to its high configureability, and its (reported) trouble free DVI output.

vs. Bravo D1 - Major problem with the bravo? Reliability. Sure you could go through mods and stuff, and it would perform better than the LG/Zenith, but again, for X1 owners, they would not want to bother with mods and whatnot. Also with this and the Momitsu, availability may be a problem (though the Zenith is OOS for several weeks, it was easier to get than the Momitsu and the Bravo).

vs. Samsung HD-931 - NO COMPONENT UPCONVERTING! :( Too bad, since its DVI problems are a moot point iwth the X1, and the reliability on the player seems to be quite good. Also, the price (i guess its applicable for all of the above players).

Norcent DP501 - Worthy competitor. THough havent been reading much on it lately (hey, i told you i was biased :D ). Reliability doesnt seem to be a huge issue (compared to the Bravo), price is fairly decent. Also fairly easy to buy.

[Samurai Jack]

I agree. Ecept for them not being available right now, the DVB318 is THE player for the X1. After seeing this, I wouldn't use anything else. HUGE bang for the buck. All the 318 promises is sweet, sweet 1080i DVD over component...and happily that's all I need.

Crappy remote, black bar issue, 480p/720p color bleeding...whatever. For the X1 all I care about just happens to be exactly what it does superbly.

I do wish they'd fix the black bar in firmware...but I'll take that extra step to adjust that away to get a picture that beautiful. Even if they do fix it, I wouldn't risk flashing until I knew for certain there was still 1080i over component.

[braindew]

I agree with everything stated here, and also the 318 wins for an X1 owner over Lite-on/Norcent. As far as Momitsu is concerned, I would only consider that if I had a DVI output (which X1 doesn't have). Also, the 1:1 pixel matching is a bust for the X1 since HD signals have proven to look much better than native resolutions (OTA HD, X-box, HD from DirectTV, and now two 1080i DVD players: Zenith and Norcent).

[GreenMonkey]

I just ended up pulling the trigger on one of these from a HT place about 2 hours away from me. They are charging $225 + tax locally. They said they are having trouble keeping them in stock. Plus, they also mentioned the rumor that they heard about 1080i over component being disabled in the future with a firmware update.

I decided, better get one while I can. My Panny CP72 died last week. Honestly, the upconversion to 1080i to downconvert back to 480p makes little logical sense to me. But it's a Faroudja based player, apparently without CCS=on. Even Faroudja isn't totally artifact free with anime - the artifacts in animation really jump out at you at 90" or so.


My X1 has a nasty jitter problem with those players with the CCS= on setting (Denon DVD-910, 1600, Mitsubishi 8040). I PM'd DenonJeff here on the forum to see if Denon had a firmware fix. Very good customer service, he got right back with me letting me know that they were aware of it, but weren't sure if they would have a fix for the problem. Kudos to the Denon rep for quick and honest reply.

EDIT: Denonjeff reports that CCS is set to off on their players, so they're not sure what is causing the jitter problem on certain displays.


So, it was either the Zenith or an XP30 off Ebay. The local outfit only had one left out of their upcoming shipment, so I got it. It's supposed to arrive in the next few days. They will let me know when it arrives.

The vertical/horizontal adjustment is going to be irritating (because I also have the gamecube hooked up via progressive component), but at least I can do something to fix it, unlike the jitter problem I'm having right now.

[Steve R H]

...DVB318 is THE player for the X1. After seeing this, I wouldn't use anything else. HUGE bang for the buck. All the 318 promises is sweet, sweet 1080i DVD over component...and happily that's all I need.
My feeling exactly!

[severtlaw]

Hi, I have just read this entire thread and received my 318 today. My issue is a 1 to 2 inch white bar in the top left corner of the screen when using 1080i through an X1 with 4.3. ANy one else have this problem? How did you fix it? No synch issues yet and great picture but for this little problem
Thanks

[sonick182]

swithc it to the resolution you want, then turn off the player, and turn itback on again. It only appears when you switch resolutions to 1080i.

[Samurai Jack]

Okay...so now I've got my X1 hooked up to the 318, and I love the details and everything, but is anyone else troubled by the picture (signal?) being just TOO bright, even after calibration?

I'm not sure if adding my DIY anamorphic lens added to this problem, as I just did that last night, too. (It works, BTW, but my mounting leaves much to be desired...will need to head back to the drawing board there).

But now I'm feeling like I need to try a bit of a grey screen. I was thinking of (after reading the "better grey" thread over in Screens) painting over a piece of scrap Parkland with something like a light, nuetral grey (say, flat white base with Lamp Black of about 10 to 15).

I feel like I could now use the better absolute blacks from this...and then maybe dial up my brightness seting just a bit for more shadow detail. It seems when I look at the screen there's a bit of a light-haze over everything, and the THX Optimizer seems to claim that I'm crushing blacks a tiny bit to compensate. Even with a Brightness setting down to 39 or 37, I still have that sense of "haze."

I don't think an ND filter is what I need...but I'm not sure. I get the feeling a grey-er screen would really help say, Lord of the Rings look, um, "deeper" or uh "cleaner."

Anybody else projecting onto Parkland, or a similarly really good matte white material?

Anybody else having this experience?

Knowing me, I'll probably not be able to stop myself from hitting Home Depot on the way home from the gym tonight :) so I'll post my results as usual.

[Spiked]

Well my dvb318 came yesterday and I got it hooked up last night.

Not yet calibrated, and I am very disappointed.

The 3+ inch black bar on the right side just plain sucks.

If I adjust the horiz shift in and then zoom out, the image is too tall, overspilling onto my screen frame.

Not only that, but when I switch to other sources, xbox and HD cable box, it's all whack and needs to be switched manually again.

This ain't gonna work for me. I'm either going to wait on a firmware fix and hope it doesn't kill the component output, or try a momitsu.

I am very particular about things being just right, and have a permanent screen and use different 16:9 sources. If these things apply to you, this might not be the player for you either.

[Samurai Jack]

Yep, the black bar problem is disappointing for certain. Really something Zenith should be ashamed to have shipped.

But that said, the picture quality is SO much beyond what I was seeing before I'm willing to live with/adjust for this caveat. I too use different 16:9 sources and will have to do a little zoom adjust going from one to the other.

My screen is DIY though, and I'm constantly tweaking, so I'll just redo it if the slight change in dimension gets to me. I still have to experiement with a grey screen as I mentioned above, anyhow. And I'm still after the holy grail of constant-height. But the perfectionist in me understands you.

Sorry if it's a deal breaker for you, it really is amazingly beautiful otherwise. For the outstanding price I said, I'm willing to deal with this one annoyance. I now refuse to go back to something less, adjustments aside.

I must make a dozen adjustments a week to my setup anyway (disclaimer). I can't control my urge to tweak it just a little further, always trying to get the next big DVD release to be a bigger wow than the last one (less than a week to Return of the King!). One of these days I'll get around to oh, actually watching some stuff ;)

I've got like 200 hours on the bulb and 2000 hours worth of screwing around :D It's all worth it when somebody comes over for a big show and notices something is better or is just has a great time all over again. Good stuff.

Spiked, if you do decide to ditch the 318, consider selling it to a forum member? I bet there's a few who wanted one and didn't get in on it before they dried up. That'd be cool of you.

[Spiked]

Cool, we can relate then. ;-)

I love to tweak, too. Problem is I don't have the time.

I need to set it up and then it's ready whenever I want it, not mess with it for a few minutes while everybody waits.

On hold with zenith now, will email them if this call is not fruitful.

If this doesn't seem like it will pan out soon, I may order a momitsu, and was planning to just relegate this player to the bedroom tv. But if this problem seems like it won't pan out through a firmware update (or whatever) in the very near future, I'd be happy to sell this unit to another avs member.

[severtlaw]

Thanks Sonic182 the off/on solution worked great. Projecting on a wall the shift is not a problem and the picture quality is outstanding. Highly reccomend this unit, it will knock your socks off.
Todd

[sonick182]

wow, 3 inches? At 100" 4:3 screen, i only noticed a ~1" bar on the right...

[Samurai Jack]

3" sounds about right to me...I'm projecting about a 96" 16:9 screen...so my 4:3 projection area would be larger than yours, sonick182.

Anybody have any thoughts on the brightness/haze issue I posted above?

I was going to pick up an ND2 nuetral density filter on my way home, but it doesn't look like a 67mm filter is anything a brick and mortar place is going to carry (I hate shopping brick and mortar stores...they never have what I need...I don't know how I'd actually manage to /get/ anything without the internet...which you have to wait for...sucks).

Oh well, I guess I'll go stop at the Depot and get that grey paint and play around with that.

[mystery]

Samurai Jack,

I believe I know what you're talking about with the white haze thing. I seem to have noticed this just recently using my LG and the X1. It is bright and calibrated with AVIA.
Here's how I noticed this haze. I would describe it as sort of a milky white film that's ever so slightly present. Not annoying by any means and you have to kind of strain or concentrate to notice it. The picture is so good on this player that you kind of have to accidentally find an anomaly like this.
Anyway, after buying the LG, I embarked on a personal DIY project after being inspired by a fellow AVSer's black frame which he built around his permanent screen in order to absorb his light spill.
I thought, why can't this be possible for a pull-down screen like my 92" Da-Lite HCMW? Soooooooooo.... about 3 weeks later and voila! I am now the proud owner of a new masking frame surrounding my screen. It suspends from the ceiling and has significantly reduced the light spill and wall/ceiling reflections. The room is much, much darker now when watching movies and truly, the image looks like it's almost suspended in mid-air. Kind of like a 3-D effect. So cool to have nothing but black surrounding the picture on all four sides for about 14" deep.
Now, I have to dismantle this frame every 3 weeks because we have a cleaning service come in and no way am I going to take the chance that they might ruin this. It took me too long to build and too much money, precious time, and worn out brain neurons, to have it jostled by a vacuum cleaner. So when I took it down for the first time on Sunday night (it only takes about 20 minutes and for me it's a labor of love and well worth it), all that was left was the screen itself, just like before I built the frame. I though I'd compare the image on just the screen now since the frame was temporarily down. Wow!! What a difference. Don't get me wrong. The image from the LG/Zenith at 1080i on the X1 is superb but the masking frame really deepened the blacks and increased the contrast at least as far as perception goes. However, this is when I noticed this haze issue. I hadn't noticed it before I put up the frame. If I hadn't built the frame I might not be aware of this but even so, as I said, the issue for me would be minor at best because the picture rocks.
Sorry for the long post. I felt I had to explain how I came to notice this.

[Steve R H]

Samurai Jack,
I am also projecting on an unmodified white Parkland plastic screen (16:9 92" diagonal) but I haven't noticed the "haze" you and mystery are talking about. The 318/X1 is definitely bright though - I agree with that. I think I prefer that. My settings are brightness 40 and contrast 58 per AVIA, but I'm beginning to think 58 is a little high on the contrast. Probably will pick up a copy of DVE and try that. Sorry - no experience with any screens other than the white Parkland, but grey might be what you need. I have no masking, only a flat black painted wood frame - but I'm beginning to think of the advantages of masking.

[Spiked]

Re: 1" vs. 3+" black r/h side bar

I took some more time with this player to see if I could figure the problem out. I noticed the bar wasn't as wide as last night.

The bar was a little different width on every resync of the x1 - sometimes up to 4" but as small as 1 & 3/4. Switching sources would show this.

Playing with the x1 settings, the Tracking setting under the advanced menu completely removed the black bar - no repositioning of the horizontal needed!! I had to run the tracking setting up to 97.

AWESOME! I spent the next 1.5 hours calibrating, and this player rocks. Running through the test patterns, the player does crop about 2% of the right side of the image, but the x1 calibration has taken care of the problem nicely. Now I can switch to other sources and only need to select the saved setting for colors, etc.

I haven't spent much time with the player yet, but haven't noticed any haze effect. I do have a flat black border on my 96" screen which gives the image some "pop" off the screen. I also have an overspill mask about 18" in front of the pj lens which has made a huge difference as well.

[mystery]

Spiked,

That's very cool! I'm sure many people who've bought this player would appreciate knowing how you got rid of the bar and without screwing up your other input sources. You might want to consider starting a thread about this issue as a FYI to X1 owners.

Also, your mask at the pj is interesting. Is it homemade? Would you mind telling us how you made it and how you mounted it? Perhaps a few pictures if you're able?

Thanks,

Wayne

[Steve R H]

Spiked,
Excellent input! I never thought to try the tracking adjustment (don't really understand what it does). I would also like to hear more details about your PJ masking rig.

[brightbulb]

Originally posted by mystery
Samurai Jack,
Not annoying by any means and you have to kind of strain or concentrate to notice it. The picture is so good on this player that you kind of have to accidentally find an anomaly like this.


LOL!;)
....do you guys ever just sit down and enjoy a DVD? I gave up nitpicking this player and just decided to enjoy one of the best "illegal", DVD palyers out there. (Rumor has it 1080i on component is done on this unit! Somehow Zenith got a few units under the radar!)

I'm not sure with current affordable equipment that it gets much better than this player with my Onkyo 6.1 receiver thru the X1 on a 8ft wide screen.
All I have to do is turn on my 27inch, 15 year old JVC TV that we purchased with our $700 in wedding cash, to know "this is a good thing."
(Hope Martha doesn't monitor the forum!)

[Spiked]

>pj mask at pj

All this is, is a piece of black foam board (from WalMart) cut to block the overspill above and below my 16:9 frame.

You basically make an arm off the pj or drop from the ceiling in front of the lens. I have a vaulted ceiling so I made one off pj, about 18" in front of it. Any closer and the mask is too far from the focal point.

This is quite ugly hanging off the pj, but it sure makes a much better viewing experience.

I had some 1.5" scrap strips of luan plywood left over from the DIY screen which fits very snugly between the pj and mandarax mount. I velcroed a big office clip on to the plywood to hold the foam board. I used a manilla folder and cut a couple of different boxes until I got it about right, judging by just holding it in front of the pj. Once I had an idea I just cut the right size foam board with a perfect top and bottom edge. The sides are not important so I made it a half inch or so wider on each side so it wouldn't interfere.

I don't have any pics myself, but I got the idea from srej in this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3407925#post3407925

The setup is very similar to the pic he posted there:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=3407925&fullpage=1


>do you guys ever just sit down and enjoy a DVD

Funny it seems like I spend more time getting everything just right than enjoying it. Hopefully one day...

[GreenMonkey]

Playing with the x1 settings, the Tracking setting under the advanced menu completely removed the black bar - no repositioning of the horizontal needed!! I had to run the tracking setting up to 97.


Now THAT is an awesome find, and makes me feel a LOT better about getting the Zenith. That was its biggest flaw to date. THANK YOU FOR FINDING IT AND POSTING!!

I wonder if that would help my jitter problem with my Denon dvd-910 I was about to return...I think I'll try it out tonight!!

[brightbulb]

Originally posted by Spiked
>pj mask at pj




>do you guys ever just sit down and enjoy a DVD

Funny it seems like I spend more time getting everything just right than enjoying it. Hopefully one day...

LOL ya actually I know exactly what ya mean! Sometimes I have to duct tape myself to the couch so I don't get up and flip the upconversion button to 720p....just to see what it looks like!

:rolleyes:

[Samurai Jack]

mystery,

Thanks for the advice. My Parkland screen, however, has a black fabric border. The entire screen wall is black, much of it black-fabric coated. All my side walls are black. I use black masking strips for 2.35 material. I also use a homemade anamorphic lens so I have no 4:3 light spill above or below. So borders/masking isn't my problem. Yes, this all makes a huge difference. No way would I tolerate just staring at grey bars bordering my picture.

[Samurai Jack]

....do you guys ever just sit down and enjoy a DVD?

LOL...believe it or not brightbulb, once in a while I do actually stop screwing around with it all long enough to watch something :D

The last thing I saw was the new print of "The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly" they just released on Tuesday. One of my favorite movies of all time finally gets a DVD that does it justice. Very nice.

But yeah, it does feel like I spend more time adjusting and building and experimenting than watching. The Curse of the Tinkerer. I get almost as much enjoyment out of that the fact that I can actually build my own theater as I do out of having it.

[Samurai Jack]

Spiked, you RULE. I cannot wait to go home and try this! That is, to go tinker some more!! LOL.

Can you tell me...did you keep making it re-sync until it got as small as it seems to, THEN adjust the tracking...or did the tracking just take care of it with no further flucuations? I'm just trying to understand what I'll need to do. Thanks!

I'll get a web page up about my lens experiment soon. Forget having an ugly mask at the PJ. Instead, have an ugly anamorphic lens housing (mine is currently held up with blue masking tape, hehe...back to the drawing board on that part). Gets rid of 4:3 light spill entirely AND gives your picture 25% more pixels in the vertical dimension.

I did paint a Parkland scrap last night with a grey paint (Lamp Black 12/48ths per gallon, or 3/48ths per quart). Tonight it should be dried enough to throw it up for a side-by-side test. Looking at it last night, though, it seems perhaps too light to make a noticable difference.

I may stay with just using my plain Parkland surface anyhow. Last night I dipped the brightness down one more notch to 37, and was pretty satisfied with the resulting black levels without losing detail. Maybe it was just a calibration/preference issue. It's pretty minor, that's for sure. But...I'm me...so I'll likely screw around some more trying to get it better still. I know this little PJ is capable of a little bit more. :)

[Spiked]

Cool, hope the adj works for you as well.

>I'll get a web page up about my lens experiment soon

Heh, how did you know what I was going to ask?
I've been eyeing the panamorph deal, but not much info out there on it. How much time do you have in your homemade anamorphic?

[brightbulb]

Originally posted by Samurai Jack
LOL...believe it or not brightbulb, once in a while I do actually stop screwing around with it all long enough to watch something :D

The last thing I saw was the new print of "The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly" they just released on Tuesday. One of my favorite movies of all time finally gets a DVD that does it justice. Very nice.

But yeah, it does feel like I spend more time adjusting and building and experimenting than watching. The Curse of the Tinkerer. I get almost as much enjoyment out of that the fact that I can actually build my own theater as I do out of having it.

I love that movie as well! Is it worth the money to get the new DVD release? Did they remaster it?

[GreenMonkey]

Hey,
I tried the tracking setting tonight with my probably-soon-to-be-returned Denon DVD-910. It looks like it stretches the screen (cutting off a section on either side). It doesn't seem like a really decent solution. Isn't that kind of like inducing overscan?

[Samurai Jack]

Tried the Tracking setting last night...does seem to stretch the pic...worried about that reducing the image quality? The "Overscan" option never bothered me (in fact I liked it) as it made masking easier and gave me 1:1 pixel mapping for the price of cropping stuff that most TV's don't show anyway. I thought it was clever.

Spiked,
Probably took me a week screwing around with the lens. This is just like an hour here and an hour there when I could manage it, so maybe it's like a good single weekend project if you really sit down to it and have a plan and everything you need. Not too bad.

A commercial Panamorph is a bit better, I'm sure...and the powerbuy deal is good if you aren't the DIY type. But for me, this was my only option. Luckily, it works. Even if you plan to buy but want to see what it's all about first, the project is a good idea IMHO.

brightbulb,
Yep, new print of Good/Bad/Ugly. Remastered video. Audio remastered in Dolby Digital 5.1 (a first...not bad considering the original track is mono). 18 minutes cut from the US release restored (makes more sense now). They went back and had Clint and Eli Wallach do voice pickups for the missing audio in those scenes. Some good extras. Nice packaging. Worth the $20 at BestBuy this week. It's the definitive print if you're a fan. Go grab it.

[brightbulb]

Thanks for the specifics!
I'm stopping on my way home from work. Looks like a rainy weekend! Perfect!

[GreenMonkey]

I'm just worried about loosing too much picture. When I turned it up to 97 on my Denon 910, it was hacking off an awful lot of the sides of the picture.

[Spiked]

>hacking off an awful lot

I don't know the situation with your Denon, but with the Zenith model, the player actually crops the rightmost 2-3% (my best guess). I have not run side by side comparisons, but am going by what I see on test patterns during calibration.

So, tracking is not actually dropping any of the image, it is stretching the 97% or so the zenith is sending to the full 100%. It appears to be stretching from left to right. So, there is some image loss and distortion.

You can zoom a bit vertically, but it may be overcompensating.

For the awesome picture I am getting after calibration, from a $160 player, this is a compromise I am very willing to make.

I did notice the x1 lost sync a couple of times during calibration, so I flashed to the new firmware last night and no problems since.

After calibrating again, I watched the opening D-Day scene from Saving Private Ryan - my personal reference scene. I am very, very pleased with this player.

Samurai Jack, I look forward to your info on the DIY anamorphic lens. I am waiting until I see reports from others with the x1/panamorph and hopefully hear some reports about the 4805. I might want to do this while I wait, and I enjoy DIY as I have time.

[Samurai Jack]

Cool. I'll try and get a least a first-pass at the web site up very soon...maybe Sunday. I'm out of town a bit this weekend though, so forgive me if it takes a little longer. I'm looking forward to more people trying it and maybe having insights of their own to share.

[GreenMonkey]

OK, thanks for the comments on the tracking/cropping issue.

On the Denon, raising the tracking to 97% results in stretching image off of the video area - quite a bit of edge cropping.


Playing around with the Phase setting last night, I did manage to minimize the flicker problem on the Denon. It takes a long time to test, though, since the flicker is very intermittent. I have to watch the screen carefully for about 5-10 minutes at this point to detect it (better than the old once every 1-2 minutes). Still seeing if I can eliminate it before spending the extra cash and sending it back to ecost and getting the Zenith.

[Spiked]

Right, but remember, the image at 97 tracking adj from denon is a different image at 97 tracking adj from the zenith. You're not comparing the same thing.

Cool S Jack, looking forward to it - no rush. I've tweaked enough for the next week or so now. ;-)

[Samurai Jack]

By the way, anybody else notice the Panamorph power buy has changed? It's now going for $500. $65 for the slide rail. $20 for shipping IIRC. $584 all together?

Still a lot of money, but that's a lot more tempting. I wonder how much I'll end up spending trying to get my DIY version to look acceptable and be mounted accurately? Still a fraction, I'm sure...but this has me tempted! Panamorph's definitely at least getting the idea...go after the budget market.

[akdude47]

Samurai, how are you holding the assembly together? Metal epoxied to glass?

[rgs]

bump

[dropzone7]

bump.
any new 318 owners using it with the X1?

[LouCipher]

Originally posted by dropzone7
bump.
any new 318 owners using it with the X1?

Yes - I received my 318 a week ago. It looks great - crisp image, no artifacts. Had the horizontal image shift to the left - just adjusted with the X1. I have firmware 4.3, so no sync issues. The 318 is an improvement over the Cyberhome 300 I was using. I did see the image bleeding in 480p and 720p, but 1080i is great. Watched Seabiscuit last night, and it looked phenomenal.

[adopted]

Yeah same here, first thing i did was calib w/ Avia and just watched some DVD's to enjoy them. Maybe I'll get around to super tweaking everything but for now its nice to just watch a DVD.

[GreenMonkey]

I got my Zenith today from Expert Electronics. As usual, the UPS guy showed up just as I was about the hop in the shower to go to work (2pm).

Quickly hooked it up. No batteries for the remote provided, which takes AAAs - unusual. I didn't have any AAAs handy so I had to just use the player's front controls to operate. My Panny CP72 had better controls on the front (So did the Denon 910 I briefly had). But the Zenith has a neater display by far than the Denon - the Denon's display looked like an alarm clock. (Not that I care much about the ergonomics, just the picture).



RE: 1" or so bar on the side. I wouldn't have noticed it right away - my screen isn't matted at this point. It's roughly 16:9 DIY - my 4:3 image fits on it at full size, so there's extra space on the sides.

It didn't look like it was cropping anything, so it's just an issue of the image being a little squished.
I will using the tracking control to stretch out the image a little bit.

I figured I'd be irritated by loosing some image on the other prog. component input sources, but I thought about it a bit. The Gamecube (my other progressive component source) has some overscan built in, so it probably will be less of an issue than I thought. I'll tweak it for somewhere in between and leave it at that.

No time to check out the MPEG/Deinterlacing capabilities. Brief playback, it looked pretty much like the 910 and my dead Panny CP72 Faroudja units. Will check later tonight.

[sonick182]

lookin forward to your results!

[wmallory]

Originally posted by GreenMonkey
Quickly hooked it up. No batteries for the remote provided, which takes AAAs - unusual. I didn't have any AAAs handy so I had to just use the player's front controls to operate.
Odd. Mine had AAA batteries. Might want to look again. I seem to remember not seeing them the first time. I think they are in a bag separate from the remote.

[GreenMonkey]

I looked at the bag with the cables in it, but I didn't see any. Then again, I didn't have time to tear it open and check. I'll look again tonight, thanks for the tip.

[FGM]

I have enjoyed the 318 with my X1 with about a dozen DVD movies. In all of them there is the vertical black bar on the right hand side of the screen and it bothers me some.
I have also notice in some of the movies some sort of horizontal bars that are somewhat lighter in color than black; it is like having two distinguishable sets of black bars above and below the picture. Any other users have had this observation? They bother me even more so than the right vertical bar.
Otherwise the 318 at 1080i puts out a much improved PQ compared to my interlaced player; and I mean much improved. Also, I can seat considerably closer to the screen before I notice any SDE (or may be is pixelation, you know the thin vertical and horizontal lines that seem to delimit the pixels).
Anybody with the horizontal quasi black bar issue? Any solution?
Thanks.

[sonick182]

it is like having two distinguishable sets of black bars above and below the picture. Any other users have had this observation?

The lighter bar is from the DVD itself coming from the player (when the movie is wider than 16:9). The Darker bar is form the X1's 16:9 anamorphic squeeze.

The variance in brightness is due to un/poorly calibration of the display. If properly calibrated, the bars coming from the player SHOULD match the brightness of the bars from the projector.

If not, just bump the brightness on the projector down a few notches until the bars match in brightness.

[GreenMonkey]

Yes, the 318 is brighter than most DVD players. Your brightness/contrast need to be re-calibrated. If you don't have a calibration DVD (you should!) you should do what the poster above suggested.

[GreenMonkey]

I think I figured out why I am perhaps seeing a little bit of negative differences sometimes with the new Zenith over the CP72 (anime being particularly tricky).


Feeding the X1 480p @ 16:9 results in cropping to 450 lines to keep 1:1 pixel mapping.

I did some reading to double-check.

Feeding the X1 1080i @ 16:9 results in it scaling down to 450 - no 1:1 pixel mapping.

I think this is what I saw causing just a little bit of differences.

What is the full resolution that the DVD player is outputting when are outputting "1080i" @ 4:3? It can't be 1920x1080 since that is widescreen. Anyone know? Just curious.

[inittab]

Is there going to be a firmware fix for the black bar issue ?

[NXPlasmid]

I've had my 318 for a week or so now and so far I am very impressed. I haven't looked back at my old pioneer dv-525 which I should do just to be sure, however, the 318 is a great thing!

OK so one thing I seem to notice a bit more is pixelation or screendoor in bright distant scenes, there was a thread in the "under 3500" on "defocusing" the X1 and I tried it and really recommend trying it for discs that the pixelation/screendoor is more obvious. my set-up is HCCV (~70" diagonal 16:9)

I have DVE and I must say that disc is a total pain in the *ss, it seems to be a very good disc for CRT calibration but DLP calibration is more like a quick afterthought.... I viewed through all the instructional stuff and still don't really think I have set up the contrast correctly. Also I didn't notice any section that delt with using the RGB gain controls to adjust the color. I might try the THX optimizer. Is the AVIA disc better suited to DLP calibration?

Oh also I found an article which stated that the "warm" (middle one) setting is 6500K

[Samurai Jack]

Samurai, how are you holding the assembly together? Metal epoxied to glass?

Only two cuts required per prism. I'm using some one else's idea of slicing a wedge of square PVC "tube" (in this case, 3x4" gutter-to-4"-pipe adapters) as the body of the prism and then two plates of glass for "windows" at either end. Held on with aquarium silicone. Makes it fairly simple to get it right.

I promise I'll get that web site up soon...sorry I just got back from another week long out-of-towner. Such a busy month!

I have plenty of tweaks yet planned, so the project's far from dead.

[orion9]

Just opened my 318 and connected my component cable to my X1 and got no output. Tested component cables on original DVD player and everything worked fine. Connected Svideo and had picture. I did get it to work once by disconnecting the 3 cables and plugging them in one at a time with the player running. That resulted in split screen / Image being projected twice side by side. If I turn the unit on w/no disk I get "Searching for signal" on the X1. If I leave it sit for 5 minutes the screen saver on the 318 will start and display but again in split screen / 2 images side by side and the X1 shows the source as 480i. I have unplugged the unit for 10 minutes twice but no luck. I have also tried 480, 720, and 1080. I also upgraded to 4.3 on the x1. I'd appreciate any suggestions!
Thanks,
John

[sonick182]

You have to use the Component to VESA adaptor (into the VGA port) to get video from the 318 to the X1.

The Component to Svideo adaptor is only compatible wtih 480i signals.

[Hughman]

Originally posted by orion9
Just opened my 318 and connected my component cable to my X1 and got no output. Tested component cables on original DVD player and everything worked fine. Connected Svideo and had picture. I did get it to work once by disconnecting the 3 cables and plugging them in one at a time with the player running. That resulted in split screen / Image being projected twice side by side. If I turn the unit on w/no disk I get "Searching for signal" on the X1. If I leave it sit for 5 minutes the screen saver on the 318 will start and display but again in split screen / 2 images side by side and the X1 shows the source as 480i. I have unplugged the unit for 10 minutes twice but no luck. I have also tried 480, 720, and 1080. I also upgraded to 4.3 on the x1. I'd appreciate any suggestions!
Thanks,
John

If the 318 is exactly the same unit as the LG 7832 it is required that the "progressive" button be pressed on the remote to enable component progressive signals.

"edit" Ok, I just read your other thread and yes using the proper port might help as well.:)

[orion9]

I was using the Svideo to component adapter on the X1. I didnt realize you had to use the VGA to component. Will order the correct adapter.
Thanks,
John

[brightbulb]

Orion9,
Yep, it has to go into the VGA. I use a cable with component on one end VGA on the other.

I got mine at Ram Electronics on the web

www.ramelectronics.net/html/video-to-vga.html#hd15rgb (http://)

Nice cable works great no adapters

[Spiked]

Anybody have a problem with the tracking setting adjustment not sticking?

A couple of times after powering up the x1/dvb318 I noticed the bar on the right side again, and the setting was back at the default 50.

Anybody else notice this?

[Steve R H]

Anybody have a problem with the tracking setting adjustment not sticking? This has happened to me when using the horizontal position adjustment to eliminate the black bar on the right. Setting this up to about 57 gives me good positioning with the 318. It will stay there for a while (X1 power off/on cycles) then eventually return to 50. I can't figure out what makes it return. I will try the tracking setting to see if behaves the same way.

[inittab]

bump^

[NXPlasmid]

So has anyone noticed the "green undersaturation" when running 1080i component to the X1?

[wmallory]

Originally posted by NXPlasmid
So has anyone noticed the "green undersaturation" when running 1080i component to the X1?
Yes. See the thread titled: "Zenith 318 green undersaturation explained" I just bumped it for you.

[inittab]

I ordered this unit yesterday. How many of you have seen that white bar problem when upconverting to 1080i? I'm also worried about logo shadows being left in the picture?

[wmallory]

Sorry NXPlasmid. I just now realized that you already knew about the thread I pointed you to (since you posted in it :)) and were asking specifically about the X1; not generically about the green desaturation. My bad.:o

[Primetyme]

i only get the white bar on 720p, but i get a small white mark in the left corner when I upconvert from 420p to 720p to 1080i. Easily removed by shutting down the unit and starting it back up.

But nothing i can do in 720p.

[inittab]

Originally posted by Primetyme
i only get the white bar on 720p, but i get a small white mark in the left corner when I upconvert from 420p to 720p to 1080i. Easily removed by shutting down the unit and starting it back up.

But nothing i can do in 720p.

got Y unit today. No white line. Everything played perfectly. Only thing is, I don't know how to calibrate RGB color with DVE on the X1. Any tips ?

[inittab]

Originally posted by wmallory
Yes. See the thread titled: "Zenith 318 green undersaturation explained" I just bumped it for you. ]

That thread doesn't explain anything abot the X1 and green saturation.

[rgs]

bump

[inittab]

Originally posted by rgs
bump

Yeah... Come on X1ners. We need to hear from you guys about how you fixed the green saturation. What settings do you guys have for Red, Green and Blue colors on the X1. So far I have these settings:

Contrast=50
Brightness=37
Color Temp=Warm
Red=50
Green=50
Blue=50

Using a 72x96 Matte White screen. PJ ceiling mounted, All walls are white, ceiling white also. Light is controlled.

Any advice for me other than getting a High Power and painting my walls and celing a darker color?

[mystery]

Inittab,

Your contrast and brightness settings are exactly the same as mine. I'm using the cool setting. Tried warm, as a matter of fact used to use it exclusively until a few months ago when I decided to 'test' out the cool for a short spell, which has turned into a permanent one.

Reds @ 71
Greens @ 34
Bues @ 50

I've monkeyed around with these settings extensively and keep ending up back at these.

I have off-white walls and a white ceiling. Using two screens. Have had a 92" 16:9 HCMW for a year now and just bought and received last Monday a High Power.

Green under/over saturation doesn't appear to be a problem for me. We're having the rec room painted, ceiling and walls a semi-dark green in about a week and that will possibly change my settings.

I'm also using a DIY shadow box which extends about 16" in front of the screen on all four sides. This has helped GREATLY in reducing reflections off of the walls and ceilings and absorbing light spill and blocking ambient light. I highly recommend pj owners do something like this. I took the box down just to see if I was seeing things and WOW, little did I know how washed out the picture was that I'd been watching for almost a year! Put it right back up and experienced once again superb deep blacks and contrast ratio to drool over. Using rope lights behind the screen to help close the iris a bit and create a context of reference for the blacks. The box also serves as a huge masking device which makes the whites and bright scenes pop. The High Power looks like a huge plasma, well, better than a huge plasma actually. Pj mounted at 6'4" behind and the screen is low, about 16" off the floor so the High Power doesn't lose much punch.

[inittab]

Anyone else care to share their X1 settings with this player? Come one I know there are many of you guys using this player with the X1 out there.

[ag73]

bump

[dropzone7]

Well, I have had my 318 for a few weeks now and I am happy with it. I kind of gave up on tweaking the projector settings (SP4800, X1) for now so I could just enjoy some movies. The brightness and contrast are turned way down. I believe I have both at like 39. Using the cool setting and RGB levels are right around what mystery had posted before. I am projecting onto a DIY blackout cloth screen in 16:9 AR (54"x96"). Screen is painted with Behr UPW paint only. My next project is probably a different screen. I solved the right side cropping through the tracking feature. Never had the white line problem. Overall, I am pleased with the picture that this player makes. It makes good DVD's look great and bad DVD's look even worse which just goes to show that it's all about the source material.

[GreenMonkey]

I'm using a white DIY screen made of Joanne's blackout cloth.

I believe my settings are (calibrated with DVE) :

Brightness 37
Contrast 46? (in the mid-40s)

The player is much brighter than my old CP72.

Using Warmest, because it is closest to the correct colors via the DVE tint * color test patterns and is supposed to be the closest to accurate.

I did not tinker with the RGB settings, as some reading here I stumbled across suggested it changes the grayscale (an undesirable thing).

[mystery]

dropzone,

Glad to see you're enjoying the 318. I'm still amazed at my LG and the picture it throws through my X1. Ridiculously close to a matterhorn and HD quality.
Just bought a High Power screen a couple of weeks ago. You should see what this combo is like. LG/318, X1 and High Power. I think I could be quite happy with this until HD-DVD players and projectors arrive at a sane level of pricing.

Wayne

[inittab]

I bumped up the color using component throuhg s-video using another DVD player then I saved those settings to a profile. When I hooked up the 318 I recalled the profile I had saved and as a result I now have a desireble amount of color that I feel was lacking. I was not able to get mt color settings right with DVE using RGB controls but I managed to get themclose to perfect using tint and color settings from a saved profile. Awsome. I'm using a 96" wide 16:9 matte white screen. I've been avoidng the high power mainly because my PJ is ceiling mounted. I also noticed more screendoor (seeing well defined black squares) with the high power sample I had from dalite. I guess the HP brings out inperfections more than the matte white.

[inittab]

bump^

[absolutic]

I have Liteon LVD2001 dvd player (upconverts to either 720p or 1080i through component) and X1. The picture is excellent (only annoyance being that X1 turns off the sharpness control on this setting). I've had the Liteon for close to a year now and it was considerably cheaper than this Zenith model. Plus Liteon plays divx/xvid files as bonus. What is the big deal about this 200$ player? Unless of course Pixelworks upconversion works better than Sigma upconversion.

Those of you that had seen both Sigma 8500 chipset 1080i upconversion and this Zenith upconversion, please comment on the difference if any. Thanks

[Samurai Jack]

inittab...are you suggesting that boosting color/tint in s-video/component interlaced mode affected the picture (positively) when you then hooked up the DVB318 to the X1 in vga/component progressive mode and recalled the user setting?

I thought the settings in interlaced and progressive modes were totally seperate from one another.

Is everyone in common agreement now that the X1 color is slightly desaturated using the dvb318 in 1080i over component? I've always felt like the picture had a very slight "bright haze" over it with the dvb318 (and yes, I've recalibrated for bright and contrast). Maybe it's "desaturated" color that I'm experiencing? Perhaps I should try punching it up?

Sorry I'm a bit out of the loop...been off the boards for too long. And yeah, I did my homework end read everything before posting, but I'm still at a loss.

By the way, have people decided that Tracking is effective to get rid of the black bar cropping, or has it become consensus that it degrades the picture? I see the Z1 has some kind of fix for this...are we still hoping for a firmware fix or is it considered a non-issue on the X1 now?

Thanks, and sorry if I'm rehashing too much stuff.

[celticwolf]

I just ordered my own DVB318 thanks to this thread. My sony dvd is starting to have issues and I think this will be a great replacement.

Thanks to all for the information!

[GreenMonkey]

By the way, have people decided that Tracking is effective to get rid of the black bar cropping, or has it become consensus that it degrades the picture

Well, it does fix the problem, but it seems to do it by stretching the picture a bit. The cropping from the DVD player remains.

Nonetheless, I find it isn't enough stretching to notice (and I am very intolerant of stretching).

[NXPlasmid]

I have had my 318 for some time now and used DVE to set the contrast and brightness to what I thought was correct. I have always considered the picture quality to be better with the 318 than my previous DVD player but always noticed more screendoor effect, especially in bright distant scenes. Last night while watching 2001 I decided to turn down the contrast a bit and see what happend. My previous settings were Brightness 40, contrast 60. I dialed down the contrast to 55 or so and noticed a huge difference and much less screendoor. Tonight I am going to go back and adjust things with DVE using lower contrast settings (I had trouble setting the contrast in the first place). After this I heartly recomend tweaking your settings a bit while watching movies to obtain the optimum picture quality! NX

[GreenMonkey]

I checked and my brightness is actually set to 44 with the blackout screen. Running about 10 ft pj to screen.

It seems like I am noticing a little more dithering from the pj now than it did with my old CP72. Can't swear to it though (could be a perception/placebo effect issue).

[spoll]

Is this the correct cable to hookup with the X1 and 318 to get the upconversion to 720p and 1080i or am I missing something?

http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/x1-cables.html

[bruman]

I got mine today and I didn't think it was too bright at all, although I did notice a little how the X1 displays a part of the widescreen bar brighter than the other half. a few clicks of brightness(down to 40) fixed that without killing the brightness I like. the image cropped on one side was esily fixed with the tracking (exactly what someone said, 97) on the X1 which saved and didn't change the way my other device looked on xbox, comcast HD...etc


other than the slight green saturation which doesnt always seem to stand out this is a magic machine and disagree when someone said that in another thread. I feel this thing is a magic machine! its amazing this unit can take a 480 reso DVD and make it look like HD, althought he X1 isn't true HD it still kicks the pants off plain 480P!!!!!!!!! I tested T2 extreme, T3, Terminator and Finding Nemo..... man what detail I seen in The Terminator Machines up close, detail I didn't see in 480P. I went to go compare to HBO HD but it wasn't a fair comparison as the Zenith with T3 made look whos talking upconversion on HBO HD look like a joke although we all know LWT isn't a HD movie and a bad transfer. still it kicked the pants out of it. as far as compared to true HD like INHD ? my X1 seems to show some jags and look a little rough on edges with HD, the zenith was no Jags, smooth as hell and really clear and 3d like!!!! not as uch detail as HD channels but damn damn close. anyone who owns a X1 don't listen to the guys who have the killer setups.... this is a perfect match for the X1 and looks great!!!!!!!! I was alot more suprised than I thought i'd be! detail I didn't see with my 480P machine pops out and pokes you in the eye! I still can't believe what this machine does and would love to see what it can look like on a true HD display!!!!!!!

I don't know if people are reading the manual and big yellow attention slip that comes with this unit but I find it hard that zenith did this by mistake over component. it clearly states on both that this machine does 720p and 1080i over DVI and Component. clearly stated in the manual and yellow attention slip. my machine is a march 2004 build date.

if anyone with a X1 is still deciding if to or not buy one. don't wait. this machine goes great with the X1 and other than green saturation I didnt have any problem making adjustments that didnt affect my other devices to compensate on the cropping.

BTW: I was very disappointed how gochnauer's shipped my unit. it was shipped in it original box and not packed in a shipping box. it has one dent in the box but the unit did arrive undamaged and working properly. still I think this is a bad way to save a buck. considering the return policy they have this is a bad way to ship a dvd player.

[mystery]

bruman,

Congratulations on your decision to get this player. It is truly incredible. I noticed the difference right away compared to my old Sony NS700P. Great detail, yet smooth picture and pixellation was also reduced on most DVDs. Very bright, saturated colors too.
Check out LOTR:FOTR. This is a poor transfer that looks blurry no matter which device you show it on. Yet, unbelievably, when you upconvert this same DVD to 1080i over component, it 'creates' a new viewing experience. I found that particular movie to be beautifully cinematic with the LG/Zenith when upconverting. And that's just one example.

bruman,

I'd like your comments on the sound output. I and many others have been astonished at the pleasant surprise in sound. Great range and concert hall like.
Perhaps you'll notice this as well.

Other movies to test: Seabiscuit (oh, man, this is pure eye candy with this player); any of the Jurassic Park movies, Spiderman, Shanghai Noon (this is absolutely one of the most beautifully shot movies I've ever seen), Die Another Day, et...

Now all you need is a High Power screen from Da-Lite like I've got and you're going to be in absolute heaven!

Wayne

[bruman]

thats one thing I left out and started on another forum I frequent. I pointed out that maybe it was me and so excited about this machine that I truly thought that this player has the best sound of any player I have owned! it just seems to really sound clear and stand out ? more presence ? I cant put my finger on it but it definitely has a nice sound and better than any machine I have owned but I thought it was me just being excited.

Seabiscuit is one movie I really enjoyed and keep forgetting to buy the DVD! Spiderman I have thought always looked good. will test , have it. Jurrasic park I have. DAD I have.

I don't have a high power screen but do have a da-lite screen. I didn't want the high power to be too much. it worried me from what I heard but almost bought it.

I don't have LOTR either. I gota buy it. been a while since I bought some dvd's and have a bunch I need to buy. I buy so much I have been trying to be good. the wife looked at me today with a glare when the fedex arrived today and I told her I tried not to buy the Zenith but after a month I couldn't take it anymore. she said boys and toys. yup! :)

but I am behind on dvd's and I use to buy all the time. next time I have extra money I will buy those.

The Zenith has me excited about my dvd's again. I had no interest watching them in 480P anymore since I have HD. it's just hard to go back. now I dont have to. :)

[cleansparks]

I haven't had any sync problems after upgrading to the 4.3 firmware until last night. I was watching the first disc of The Shield season 1 and my X1 was losing sync pretty frequently -- I'd say about 4 times per episode. Has anyone else tried this dvd?

[celticwolf]

I upgraded to 4.3 before my 318 got here... no problems to date. I will see if I can get a copy of The Shield this weekend and check it.

[ag73]

I upgraded to 4.3 also and have had no problems. Except in the shawshank redemption in the scene right after Andy escapes and the cops are searching the water where he came out of the tunnel--when the photographer's flash goes off when the guy is holding up the rockhammer, my X1 loses sync, even after upgrading to 4.3

[Mike777]

Someone mentioned getting this for 160 shipped. Amazon has it for 200, so I am curious where to find it cheaper.

[wmallory]

See:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=400480

[Mike777]

Originally posted by wmallory
See:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=400480

Sure I looked through that thread (and the other official ones.) But trying to find something in that huge thread is like trying to find a needle in the haystack.

[celticwolf]

http://www.gochnauers.com/

email em' and they will send you the quote you are looking for.

[airduct]

there was another store that has this unit, but i forgot the name...something with "pcstore." one of the other members can chime in if they remember.

[cleansparks]

Just an update on my problems. I haven't had sync problems with other dvds and do have the 4.3 firmware. With The Shield it has been pretty bad. One particularly bad scene was episode 3 season 2 where Vic gets shot. My X1 must have lost sync in that scene 4 times. Every The Shield DVD has given me at least some problems. I have made it through the entire season 1 and the first disc of season 2 so far.

[ReneA]

I have a Mitsubishi RPTV and my 318 will not upconvert using the component video in. I seem to remember that my TV is locked in at 480P at the component in. If I use S-Video, can I upconvert to 720P? By the way, the other component in to my TV is for the HiDef receiver, and I prefer to keep that like it is. Thanks.

[GreenMonkey]

If I use S-Video, can I upconvert to 720P?

You can't send anything higher than 480i via s-video. Component, DVI, etc is needed for 480p and higher.

[KanosWRX]

I am trying to find out how many people with X1's are having issues with the black bar on the right side of the screen. So if everyone could please answer the questions below I would appreciate it.

1. What Firmware are you running (X1 or SP)
2. Do you see the black bar on the right of the screen, sort of looks like its cropping off 1-1.5 inches.
3. What is the build date of your DVB-318.

Hopefully this will help us narrow down the problem.


Here are my answers

1. SP v. 1.6
2. Yes
3. December 2003

[inittab]

Originally posted by Samurai Jack
Tried the Tracking setting last night...does seem to stretch the pic...worried about that reducing the image quality? The "Overscan" option never bothered me (in fact I liked it) as it made masking easier and gave me 1:1 pixel mapping for the price of cropping stuff that most TV's don't show anyway. I thought it was clever.


Why don't you guys just use the horizontal shift to get rid of the black par in the right ?

[KanosWRX]

Because I have would have to move it left and right everytime I switch between HDTV and DVD's. Plus who really wants 2-3% of there picture cropped off? I would rather just have it work right.

[inittab]

Originally posted by KanosWRX
Because I have would have to move it left and right everytime I switch between HDTV and DVD's. Plus who really wants 2-3% of there picture cropped off? I would rather just have it work right.

Yeah but by using the tracking you are just stretching the image not getting the full picture ? I use horizontal shift and my comcast 1080i signal fits perfectly the same as the 1080i signal coming from the DVD. I never have to change or shift anything. hmmm

[inittab]

So whats the consensus here guys? Tracking is better solution than horizontal shift for the side ellimimation ?

So what’s the consensus here guys? Tracking is better solution than horizontal shift for the side elimination? If yes/no, why? I'd like to get your opinions so I can decide what what to use.

[inittab]

bump^

[KanosWRX]

When you do tracking I think that stretches the right side of the picture more to the right. When you do shift, you are just shifting the picture all together. shifting is probably the best method, but if you go back and forth between sources (like hdtv/dvd/xbox) then you have to keep adjusting it every time. So I just do half and half and make a compromise, seems to work out pretty well, and I don't see any reduction in picture quality or notice anything wrong with the streching, its only a few pixels being stretched.

[inittab]

Originally posted by KanosWRX
When you do tracking I think that stretches the right side of the picture more to the right. When you do shift, you are just shifting the picture all together. shifting is probably the best method, but if you go back and forth between sources (like hdtv/dvd/xbox) then you have to keep adjusting it every time. So I just do half and half and make a compromise, seems to work out pretty well, and I don't see any reduction in picture quality or notice anything wrong with the streching, its only a few pixels being stretched.

All of my sources are 1080i so I don't have that problem.

[KanosWRX]

My HDTV is 1080i and if I just use shifting (not tracking) my HDTV 1080i picture will then be cut off on the left side if I set the shift to around 58 (thats about where it needs to be to line up the DVD picture). Its only logical that it works that way. If you tell the X1 to shift to the right, then inputs that used to be lined up when the X1 setting was at 50, will then be shifted to the right and you will see a black bar on the left and the right side of the HDTV will be cropped by the projector.

[inittab]

Originally posted by KanosWRX
My HDTV is 1080i and if I just use shifting (not tracking) my HDTV 1080i picture will then be cut off on the left side if I set the shift to around 58 (thats about where it needs to be to line up the DVD picture).

Thats weird. My picture stays the same as long as the source is 1080i. I don't see and black bar when i'm using the comcast HDTV box. My screen is a 52x92 HP, and the picture is perfectly centered on all 1080i sources.

[mjoshi]

Originally posted by dropzone7
DrWoo, I have the X1(SP4800) and plan on getting the 318 player. I think the first thing to explain is that the only time the projector is scaling is when you have it connected via a lesser connection like S-video. If you currently have your projector run with component cables through the VGA port then Faroudja is turned off. You are only seeing the fruits of any onboard processing that your DVD player is doing and a progressive scan picture as opposed to 480i interlaced. The X1 Faroudja chip does a good job of scaling the 480i interlaced input but I still prefer component connection to my progressive scan DVD player. I think that the excitement is over the fact that this player will upconvert your 480 signal to 720p or 1080i through that same component connection. Here, you are reaping the benefit of letting the Faroudja equipment on board the player do the hard work while your projector does what it was intended to do, shoot an image onto your screen. I have HD cable and I can tell you that 1080i looks awesome on the X1 and if this player will mimic that effect on DVD output then I am certainly excited to get it. I'm sure the projector will need to be recalibrated to match the performance of this player but that should only be a few short minutes and well worth the time to get it right. Good luck, I hope it works out well for us X1 owners.

After reading your post I'm little bit confused about X1's capability to display 1080i (true High Definition picture). As per what I know X1's native resolution is 800x600. I've Comcast High Definition cable and recently bought X1 (so bit new to this world). As per what I understand if resolution of X1 is 800x600 then it will display only upto 600 lines and hence it will not be able to display 720p or 1080i in its true format. At present I'm using component coming out of my cable box and feed it to X1 using VESA-to-Component adapter (Computer-in not s-video adapter). Will X1 project true 1080i video or not ?

[inittab]

Originally posted by mjoshi
Will X1 project true 1080i video or not ?

The X1's native resolution 800x600. What you are seeing when the PJ says 1080i etc.. is a display of the type of signal coming from your source. The X1 scales that signal down to 800x600 if its not that way by default. A 1080i image has a resolution 1920 x 1080, therefore it impossible to get any type of resolusion thats higher than what is native for the X1.
The answer to your question is, NO! Nevertheless, the 1080i signals still look awsome on the X1 given that fact.
hope this helps.

[AMaench]

I have a question I thinking about getting an LG LST-3510a because it has an hd reciever in it but I was thinking that a combo unit might not be the right choice so I was wondering does anybody here have both the 318 and the 3510a and could you tell if their is any difference in performance?

I have an X1 and I want to get the best picture quality I can get and I would like to move up to HDTV and the 3510 seemed like the right choice but I think the combo unit might suffer in performance. I wouldn't mind spending some money on the Zeinth but it doesn't play SACD or DVD-Audio like my Pioneer does. Anybody recommend a quality player like the Zeinth that included those abilities? MY main concern now is just getting the best picture quality I can. IS everybody feeding the X1 a 1080i signal through the component to vga adaptor?

[GreenMonkey]

Nevertheless, the 1080i signals still look awsome on the X1 given that fact.

Some of the speculation has been that the HD signal has a different color matrix, whereas SD & DVD have the NTSC (jokingly referred to as never-the-same-color by DVE calibration DVD).

As far as the best PQ, honestly, I'm one of the Zenith dissenters. I don't like the righthand image cropping, and I don't think the 1080i upconverting does anything for the image.

It does have a very nice image - it is a good Faroudja based player. Fairly uncommon at this time.


But I'm eyeing up the new Panasonic faroudja player that is coming out, and the just-released Denon DVD-1910. Plus, it would be nice to get the "Native" setting back for 4:3 stuff.

[AMaench]

Can anyone tell me how they are getting the 1080i signal into the X1? Are you using the component to VGA connector or an Component to s-video to feed the unit?

[KanosWRX]

Component to VGA adapter

[KanosWRX]

Decided to compare my DVB318 to my Pioneer 563A.

Turns out the 318 doesn't crop nearly as much as the 563A and its not bad at all. Check out these two shots I took on my X1. Sorry about the picture size but its all I can attach using the forum's, I have huge 2592x1944 jpgs from my Canon G5 that really show the resolution differences heavily in favor of the DVB318 if anyone wants those, just e-mail me. I really was thinking of maybe returning the 318 because of the cropping but as you see its a lot better then my pioneer.

First Picture is the DVB-318

[KanosWRX]

This is the Pioneer 563A

[KanosWRX]

Once again, these low res pictures don't do the 318 justice as far as picture quality goes, this is to only show it doesn't crop nearly as bad as my 563A, in fact its much better. Zenith just needs to release a firmware to shift the picture to the right some and we will be set. If you really want to see how much higher res the 318 is then the 563a send me an e-mail and I will e-mail you the full size pics.

[AMaench]

I thought the component to VGA only accepted progressive signals?

[KanosWRX]

Correct, it only takes progressive signals. 480p 720p, or 1080i (not progressive really, but it takes it).

So you need a dvd player that can output progressive, like my pioneer 563A did, or my new Zenith DVB-318.

[Mr.Domino]

Note - this is a repost of the main FAQ thread, but I wanted the input from some dedicated X1 enthusiasts...

Has anyone else noticed horrible aliasing with curves in the picture? Any round objects (example - planets and storm trooper helmets in star wars) are incredibely jagged along the edges. It's worse than any other DVD player I've ever seen.

This is on an X1, calibrated with Avia. It looks awful and is horribly distracting to me. It's upconverted to 1080i, although it is just as noticable in every resolution, including 480p (which looks worse than even cheap 480p players).

I've tried messing with various settings, and I'm using firmware 4.3 if it matters. Nothing seems to help it one bit. Has anyone else experienced this? Any possible solutions/workarounds?

[amethyst]

Hi, i have both the X1 and the 318. I'm having major issues with the image desyncing during bright flash scenes. I upgraded the firmware on the X1. Is there anything else I can do to eliviate this? Its embarrassing to be showing a movie to some friends and then getting the blue screen 5 times in every movie. I am connected via component through a receiver.

[brightbulb]

Did you check the synch thresold option on the X1? There is a setting in one of the menus that you need to check.

[amethyst]

Brightbulb, thanks for the tip, will try that. I dont think i saw this option before the firmware upgrade.

[brightbulb]

Thats correct, the new firmware adds the feature

[KanosWRX]

Mr.Domino, how close are you sitting to your screen? If you are not around 1.5 times further away then the width of your screen you are going to see some of the drawbacks of a front dlp projector such as minor screen door effect and stair stepping. The X1 isn't that high res. so it is more prone to stair stepping then most of the newer higher res projectors.

[sdmike]

Double posted by accident. Correct post follows. I apologize.

[sdmike]

Hello;
I've been following this thread with great interest as I'm ready to upgrade my current DVD player (A Jaton multi-region using component out to my X1's VGA in) to something that upconverts to 1080i. I was considering the Momitsu 880, but it sounds like the Zenith is equally as good, if not better, while much cheaper. I understand it is possible to make the Zenith region free. My question is this (and I apologize if this has been covered elsewhere): Since my DVD collection contains about 30% non-region 1, does the Zenith do NTSC <-> PAL conversion correctly? Thanks! Oh, and also... The best current pricing I've found is $175 including shipping to CA. Anyone else know, off hand, of any better deals? Thanks again!

[manufanatic]

yes it does the ntsc pal thing

[brightbulb]

Double check the 318 thread....it is very long but......

I think the DVB318 ship has sailed. I don't think the ones shipping now do 1080i out of the component. I believe they ship with a new firmware that has disabled that. DVI still works but not component.

I'd double check.

[akdude47]

Yes your correct, I have a OCT 2004 build I got earlier this month. I "downgraded" the firmware and it works fine on component out at 1080i now.

[sdmike]

Got my DVB318 about a week ago and, yes, downgrading the firmware will still give you component out upconversion. Also, there is firmware to make it region free and it does PAL <-> NTSC conversion correctly. Watching out-of-region DVD's in upconverted format is a beautiful thing!

[Mike2000]

Excellent thread. I am now seriously considering this player. Can someone answer the following?

I am using 480i player now (panasonic dvd S47) and I don't believe the horizontal adjustment appears in the menu of the X1. I remember adjusting this (and vertical I think) when I first bought the X1 and I must have been using it with my computer. Does the horizontal and vertical shift part of the menu become active when using 1080i on the Zenith? I looked at every setting and I can't find those adjustments now, under advanced or any other.

Other question - My current image has about 2in of space on each side of my 16:9 screen. I can't zoom the X1 out any further since I'm as far back as I can go. I don't want to loose more image size due to the right side cropping issue. I don't mind stretching a bit with the tracking if I need to - Question is - will that stretching compensate for the loss of image width. I don't want to loose any more width.
Thanks.

[Mike2000]

I think I have found the answer to my first question in the X1 manual, they make reference to the fact that the position adjustment on the X1 is for computer sources. I will translate this as sources also using the VGA connector which 1080i input will, thus perhaps that's why all of you are able to use the position adjustment with that input and why I don't see it on the menu.
If someone could confirm and take a look at my second question I would appreciate it. Thanks

[Steve R H]

Mike2000, you have it correct - progressive or 1080i input via the VGA on the X1 will enable those controls. I had a Pioneer 480i player before the Zenith and I can confirm this.
I use the X1 horizontal position adjustment to compensate for the right side cropping - about an inch or two for me. Should work for you.
By the way, tremendous improvement for me with the Zenith 1080i compared to the Pioneer. Best investment since the X1!

[xanaduguy]

Where can I find more information on "downgrading" the 318 I was looking for it and I cant seem to find enough info.
I had written the 318 off but now it seems It is back on since I can do the downgrade.
please point me in the right direction?

Thanks

[sdmike]

First post in this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=400480

[jsm88]

Sorry to wake this thread from the dead, but as an x1 owner with a dead dvd players this sounds like the way to go for dvd upconversion on the x1 (with the downgraded firmware of course). Have there been any changes/introductions in the last 5 months that would change opinions on the dvb318?

[brightbulb]

[QUOTE=jsm88]Sorry to wake this thread from the dead, but as an x1 owner with a dead dvd players this sounds like the way to go for dvd upconversion on the x1 (with the downgraded firmware of course). Have there been any changes/introductions in the last 5 months that would change opinions on the dvb318?[/QUOTE]

Maybe,
I routinely cruz the DVD isles in CC and BB etc. I've been noticing a LOT of upconversion players currently on the market. Granted all of these do upconversion through DVI but an adapter to VGA can be had.
I guess what I'm saying is I would certainly look into some of these other units.
That said, I'm still 100% satisfied with the x1 and 318 after a whole year of use. It blows people away when they see the picture quality on a 8 X 6ft screen in the home. They always ask if I ever go to the theater anymore.

[jsm88]

yeah, the LG LDA-511 seems to be the class of this new crowd, but as you said, they are all hdmi only, no component up.

In that case, can anyone comment on the quality difference between HDMI-VGA adapters versus using a component out player (the dvb318 for example). If a HDMI out only player was an option for the x1, the oppo is represented to be the class of the entire field right now - that might be a better option?

[garibay_2004]

hey mistery, where did you get the firmware update?

[JOHNnDENVER]

Holly bringing a thread back from the dead batman... :)

Ooops I meant to include the link:

http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/experttips/michaeltlv/lg_dv7832_firmware.html

[mystery]

garibay_2004,

I can't quite remember where I got that firmware upgrade from. :confused: It's been so long now and I've moved on to the Oppo. :)

Do a forum search or google it. You might get lucky.

Wayne

[mystery]

Thanks John,

Now I remember where I got the firmware upgrade! :D

Wayne

p.s. The LG/Zenith player is still a terrific little unit in my opinion.