Samsung DVD HD-941 Available soon!

[wilsons5]

I'm hearing from some dealers that these will ship very soon. The improvements over the HD931 are : Black level adjustment, HDMI, and SACD playback. Hopefully the audio dropouts are fixed also. And yes, it has "the" chip.

I just bought a 931 and was researching the Zenith DVB318, when I found out that this unit is shipping to dealers..

My question is : having a DVI TV connection & using this unit with the included "HDMI to DVI converter", am I losing any picture quality - the sound will be routed to my Denon AV receiver anyways?

This unit looks interesting.....

[Q of BanditZ]

I hope it works a lot better than the 931 does...

[iqwertyi]

I'm glad to hear it will be available soon. I already have the 931 but my other DVD player in the living room just died on me, so I'm probably going to set up the 931 there and use the 941 for my own.

Assuming of course it's fixed black crush on the 931. I really like how the player looks and I hope they stick with the SACD playback this time around.

I don't think there should be any loss in PQ with the adapter. I believe I've heard of cables that are DVI on one end and HDMI on the other.

[[ECGN] Tommy Boy]

any idea what "soon" means? And guesses on price?

[wilsons5]

A dealer that has always been honest and helpful before, told me that he is expecting them in the next 10 days, and the price will be $299.00 ($349.00 list).

[[ECGN] Tommy Boy]

wow, seems like a pretty good deal to me! Thanks....

[Q of BanditZ]

I'll be interested to see feedback and reviews on this unit...

[pescador]

Well, Amazon is now listing it at $299- not sure how long they've had the price:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0001H4BZC

A couple of other shady vendors list it as 'in stock' but I'll let someone else test them out. :)

[BillP]

Amazon also lists the HD-841 for $199. The difference between the 2 seems to be in video quality (both play SACD and DVD-A): the 941 has the Faroujda chip, black level adjustment, and discrete IR codes. I wonder if it's worth $100 extra over the 841??

[BillP]

They're not listed yet on the Best Buy, Circuit City, Tweeter, or J&R web sites.

[tommyc_295]

I did a search for it saw this link and it says it's due out the third Q.



http://www.1-877camcorder.com/dvdhd941.html

[BillP]

It was supposed to be out in the June/July time frame, but the info above makes it sound like it may be out ahead of schedule.

[Jw_Wood]

Originally posted by BillP
Amazon also lists the HD-841 for $199. The difference between the 2 seems to be in video quality (both play SACD and DVD-A): the 941 has the Faroujda chip, black level adjustment, and discrete IR codes. I wonder if it's worth $100 extra over the 841??
Don't forget DVI vs HDMI

~ Jay

[Gamedude]

Out of curiousity, will it upconvert through component or is it like previous models?

[HTCrazy]

I guess "Black level adjustment" just means adding a perception of black level like you get with Sony TV's and PJ's. It would be nice if it would instead pass blacker than black settings..

[Brett Miles]

This player doesn't have a memory buffer for layer changes, does it? I think that's the only thing that's missing on my check-list.

[[ECGN] Tommy Boy]

has anyone actually found it yet, or is it just "coming soon"....

[wilsons5]

As I stated above, a reputable dealer told me that he has a delivery date from Samsung of May 13-17th.

With all the talk about the Zenith DVB318, and the fact that you can't find it anywhere on a retail shelf- I thought it might be smart to share my news of an alternative that might well appear on shelves sooner than the others- for those of us who don't like the return hassles of Internet shopping..

[bokes]

What exactly is HDMI? I have a HD television with DVI input. Will this unit work with my set?
I hope it's better than the Bravo D1. DVD's stutter and shut down on the Bravo.

BTW- Why haven't we seen a solid DVD player with DVI output from one of the big boys like Sony? or Panasonic?

[ricksm3]

Originally posted by bokes
What exactly is HDMI? I have a HD television with DVI input. Will this unit work with my set?
I hope it's better than the Bravo D1. DVD's stutter and shut down on the Bravo.

BTW- Why haven't we seen a solid DVD player with DVI output from one of the big boys like Sony? or Panasonic?

Not only will it work (hopefully) with a DVI input, but the specs I've seen state it even comes with a HDMI to DVI cable in the box.

[NorthJersey]

Originally posted by bokes
What exactly is HDMI? I have a HD television with DVI input. Will this unit work with my set?
I hope it's better than the Bravo D1. DVD's stutter and shut down on the Bravo.

BTW- Why haven't we seen a solid DVD player with DVI output from one of the big boys like Sony? or Panasonic?

HDMI is the "next generation" of DVI. DVI carries only a video signal (which is why you need to connect seperate audio cables) while HDMI carries the video and audio.

The newer Sony/Panasonic DVD players are coming out with HDMI instead of DVI. For some reason they decided to sit out on DVI, even though they have those ports on most of their sets.

[[ECGN] Tommy Boy]

yeah, the HD-941 says that it comes with a HDMI cable, but a HDMI to DVI connector so it should work fine!

[BillP]

Originally posted by Jw_Wood
Don't forget DVI vs HDMI

~ Jay

To me, that's irrelevant since my DLP has a DVI input and I plan on running the audio directly to my preamp anyway. I guess we'll have to wait and see whether the performance of the 941 is really any better than the 841 (for $100 more).

[aghusker]

Originally posted by BillP
To me, that's irrelevant since my DLP has a DVI input and I plan on running the audio directly to my preamp anyway. I guess we'll have to wait and see whether the performance of the 941 is really any better than the 841 (for $100 more).

I think the $100 difference is mainly the Faroudja DCDi chip. That alone should make 941 have a better picture than 841...proof is in the pudding though...

[jdepew]

looking forward to getting rid of my Toshiba SD-5960 - what a flimsy piece of equipment!

[ralittle2]

Did I read the specs correctly that the HD941 will not output SACD or DVD-A via the HDMI connector? I realize that there is nothing to connect it to right now (or very little) but I'm still looking for digital output of the high rez audio.

[bollingm]

Did you notice where the amazon post has 768p listed as a resolution? Isd this for us GWIII owners with odd screen resolutions or a typo? Of so this would give 1x1 pixel mapping.

We should track down the manual.

[rlundy]

I just pre-ordered the 941 off Amazon. Gave an estimated ship date of 7/9. Amazon has massive disclaimers about ship date may differ, etc. We'll see if anyone has any luck grabbing one from one of the smaller etailers claiming they are in-stock.

[Q of BanditZ]

There will be much anger from the populace if the 941 is the 931 with an HDMI output.

I sincerely hope, for Samsung's case in this marketplace, that the 941 is not just a redressed 931...

[mrtanner]

All the specs I've read indicate upscaling to 768p in addition to the more common resolutions. As an owner of a Sony HS10 projector, 768 combined with SACD/DVD-Audio is what has my credit card poised waiting for the release of this unit.



http://www.digiupdate.com/251_HD_DVD_Players.html#_Toc64881796

Resolutions:
480i/p, 720p, 1080i, additional 1366x768 resolution

Scaler Used:
Faroudja DCDi

Outputs:
HDMI


Audio Formats:
DVD-Audio, SACD

[[ECGN] Tommy Boy]

with the exception of the HDMI output, do you really think that it is worth the price difference from the samsung 841?

[Beaker1024]

More importantly will the HDMI output using a HDMI to DVI cable (for DVI TV) cause White and black crushing that has been reported in many other HDMI players (that use HDMI to DVI cable)? This has got me worried and cautious. BTW you can read about this problem in a number of other threads.

[[ECGN] Tommy Boy]

IF ^ is the case, then perhaps the 841 is teh better way to go for now?

[zoro]

but no DCDI in 841?

[jdepew]

From what I can gather and have seen, there is no 'conversion' between HDMI and DVI. The video signal passed through both the cables is the same. HDMI introduces a new smaller connector and integrated audio transmission.

The two are eletrically and standards-based the same with regards to video transmission. The reason why we are seeing 'crush' or clipping in DVI players is that often the PC spec of DVI is implemented rather than the Video spec. Each of these sets the range of color and therefore absolute black and white at different levels. In doing so, you lose the 'blacker than black colors' - thereby inducing what we call crush or clipping.

The 931 does have this problem and its hoped that the 841 and 941 will correct this problem. The 841 and 941 will both use the Farjouda DCDi chip.

[tommyc_295]

I too will probably being buying the 941 because of the 768p scaling for my HS-10 as well. I do wish it would have Media Player 9 capabilites as the Bravo D3 will have.

TC

[bollingm]

with the new Sammys, Panasonic, D3 and Momisu V88N and the Sony's comming, this should be an interesting next few months.

[Nhan]

Sorry if this question has been asked before, but what good is HDMI at this point? You connect from the DVD player to the TV. What good does DD/DTS/SACD/DVD-A do in this situation? Wouldn't most people would want the sound routed to their HT Receiver, none of which on the current market supports HDMI. Even if there was one, how do you make use of the DVD player, unless they come with 2 HDMI ports?

[PhilB]

Originally posted by bollingm
with the new Sammys, Panasonic, D3 and Momisu V88N and the Sony's comming, this should be an interesting next few months.

It sounds like Denon maybe be trying to encroach on the upper end of this price point with a digital video out player. I agree, the next few months should be interesting.

-phil

[PhilB]

Originally posted by Nhan
Sorry if this question has been asked before, but what good is HDMI at this point? You connect from the DVD player to the TV. What good does DD/DTS/SACD/DVD-A do in this situation? Wouldn't most people would want the sound routed to their HT Receiver, none of which on the current market supports HDMI. Even if there was one, how do you make use of the DVD player, unless they come with 2 HDMI ports?

HDMI has been developed with long runs in mind. DVI has a spec limit of 5 meters, although that can be improved with expensive cables. HDMI won't have cable lengh limitations.

Also, the HDMI connector is much smaller than DVI which means that it is easier to wire an existing install for HDMI.

-phil

[Nhan]

Thanks, for the info, Phil. I guess if that's the main advantage of HDMI over DVI, then I understand. But I still don't understand all the rave about HDMI supporting the sound transmission bit. It's great that it can get sound to your tv (for those with HDMI), but it's limited to that. Why not just stick to DVD players with DVI (other than the HDMI players are newer and may have better features).

Oh, yea, I had my buddy return the Sammy 931 in anticipation of the 941's arrival. I hope the 941 has SACD/DVD-A analog outputs, since if it only has 1 HDMI output, then SACD/DVD-A is no good?

[Jim Kiler]

I hope the 941 has SACD/DVD-A analog outputs, since if it only has 1 HDMI output, then SACD/DVD-A is no good?

Does that mean, SACD or DVD-A cannot use a optical or digital coax cable? I am confused.

Also I see monstercable has a HDMI adapter and a HDMI - DVI cable, is there an adapter or HDMI cable that splits into an Audio as well so you can use the one output on your DVD player and route DVI to TV and audio to the receiver?

[TauRus]

Originally posted by Jim Kiler
Does that mean, SACD or DVD-A cannot use a optical or digital coax cable? I am confused.

Also I see monstercable has a HDMI adapter and a HDMI - DVI cable, is there an adapter or HDMI cable that splits into an Audio as well so you can use the one output on your DVD player and route DVI to TV and audio to the receiver?

No, SACD/DVD-A cannot be transmitted over digital coax or optical cables (due to bandwidth limitations). As far as I understand, 941 will output SACD/DVD-A through both 5.1 analog and HDMI, hopefully. Those with HDMI receivers will be able to get both audio and video using just one cable., Others will have to use alternative solutions like taking 5.1 EXT IN for SACD/DVD-A, coax/toslink for DD/DTS, and component or HDMI for video.

[Nhan]

Originally posted by Jim Kiler
Does that mean, SACD or DVD-A cannot use a optical or digital coax cable? I am confused.



Right now, most players output SACD and DVD-A via 6 analog RCA cables. None do it via optical/coax. Only a very few do it via firewire (Pioneer and Denon are the 2 that I know of).

[ralittle2]

Originally posted by Nhan
Right now, most players output SACD and DVD-A via 6 analog RCA cables. None do it via optical/coax. Only a very few do it via firewire (Pioneer and Denon are the 2 that I know of).

Thanks for the clarification, but that is unfortunate. Any word on if and when we can look forward to HDMI output of SACD/DVD-A?

[blipszyc]

In regards to SACD/DVD-A over HDMI, it probably won't happen right away. Just like upconversion only works over HDCP equipped devices, my guess is that those audio formats won't go digital until some sort of copy protection is included in the connector. Right now there are only 2 devices that output DVD-A through a digital connector (Denon and Pioneer) and its only for DVD-A. Sony still hasn't given any company the go ahead to transmit SACD from the transport to the decoder digitally.

When it does happen, and if its over HDMI, you'll still need to split the signal so that video goes to your TV/PJ and audio to your decoder. Unless, of course, you have the latest receiver that accepts the HDMI cable and splits out the signals internally. (Yammy Z9 is the only one at this point I think)

Personally, I don't want to introduce any "middleman" products into my video stream, so for me, I'd be happy with 2 cables, one for video, one for audio.

[ralittle2]

Thanks Blipszyc, two cables wouldn't be bad at all, but the currentl analog situation only proves another barrier to more widespread sales of SACD and DVD-A discs. The average consumer wants to plug in one cable and listen or watch. I'll go along with that desire.

[Nhan]

Thanks for the explanation. I'm almost up-to-date on my digital connections now :)

[mrtanner]

Wilsons5, could you tell me who the reliable dealer is that indicated they are getting these next week? I promise not to tell anyone else.

A couple of months ago my wife sat there and laughed at me as I was reading the Samsung press release and kept getting giddy as I read down the list.

768P Upsampling (Ooh!)
Faroudja Deinterlacer (Wow!)
$349 list price (Grin)
DVI/HDMI Compatible (oh yeah!)
DVD-A/SACD compatible (Yes! Yes! Yes!)

I'm really geeked about this. I thought I'd have to wait until fall.

[Tim Christianson]

Q,

I also have an HS10, but this may not work due to the HS-10's weird refresh rate (56hz).

I am guessing this DVD Player will output 1366x768 at 60hz, and the refresh will not be adjustable. If that is the case, then we will be out of luck.

[tommyc_295]

It WOULD be my luck that it won't work with my HS-10!

[jmiholich]

I have been waiting too for the 941 release. A question I have is will the 941's DCDi have an issue with a TV with the Foroudja chip. I am refering to a HLM507w that I have. Will they interfere with eachother or double proccess the image? Will you just turn one off? Just looking for some answers.

[aghusker]

Originally posted by Beaker1024
More importantly will the HDMI output using a HDMI to DVI cable (for DVI TV) cause White and black crushing that has been reported in many other HDMI players (that use HDMI to DVI cable)? This has got me worried and cautious. BTW you can read about this problem in a number of other threads.

Just to clarify, as I have been reading the threads here for months now,
the HDMI-to-DVI crush "bug" has only been reported for black crush, not white.

The white crush issue is a sole affliction of the Zenith DVB318 player over DVI and has gotten mixed into the HDMI-to-DVI issue.

There is a "HDMI-to-DVI Blacker than Black" thread that discusses the issue. It's above my head, but has something to do w/ conversion in HDMI transmitter to YCrCb instead of RGB. It's unclear if all HDMI-output players will have the "bug."

It's not really a PC vs video IRE clipping issue (like the Samsung HD 931 has), but it is an issue with mis-application of HDMI spec by DVD manufacturers.

To be honest, I don't think enough testing has been done to say anything conclusive about the HDMI-DVI bug...

[KenLand]

Originally posted by jmiholich
I have been waiting too for the 941 release. A question I have is will the 941's DCDi have an issue with a TV with the Foroudja chip. I am refering to a HLM507w that I have. Will they interfere with eachother or double proccess the image? Will you just turn one off? Just looking for some answers.

You'd set the output of the 941 to 720p, plug it into the DVI port on the back of your 507 and enjoy. The deinterlacing will be done in the 941.

Ken

[Neo57]

I just have a question, not sure if it has been answered in this thread or not. I put a thread in this forum in regards to the best upconvert player for the Sony GWIII. The topic of the 941 did come up. It is stated that the 941 can play a res of 768p. The main question for GWIII owners is whether or not the native res is 768p or 788p. I have seen mixed answers. Can anyone trully answer this? If so, that would end my debate on whether the 941 is something to look forward to. Thanks.

[[ECGN] Tommy Boy]

Originally posted by mrtanner
Wilsons5, could you tell me who the reliable dealer is that indicated they are getting these next week? I promise not to tell anyone else.

A couple of months ago my wife sat there and laughed at me as I was reading the Samsung press release and kept getting giddy as I read down the list.

768P Upsampling (Ooh!)
Faroudja Deinterlacer (Wow!)
$349 list price (Grin)
DVI/HDMI Compatible (oh yeah!)
DVD-A/SACD compatible (Yes! Yes! Yes!)

I'm really geeked about this. I thought I'd have to wait until fall.

I have not found a reliable dealer who has told me that they will be out sooner than June here in Canada. Even at that, they were not sure.

[Kpt_Krunch]

Originally posted by TauRus
No, SACD/DVD-A cannot be transmitted over digital coax or optical cables (due to bandwidth limitations). As far as I understand, 941 will output SACD/DVD-A through both 5.1 analog and HDMI, hopefully. Those with HDMI receivers will be able to get both audio and video using just one cable., Others will have to use alternative solutions like taking 5.1 EXT IN for SACD/DVD-A, coax/toslink for DD/DTS, and component or HDMI for video.

Correct me if I am wrong here - but is not the format for SACD and DVD-A a resident 'Analog' signal, hence the reason why it cannot be transmitted via a digital interface, toslink (opitcal) or coaxil? Firewire meanwhile, has the ability to do both.

I also brought up in another post a while ago how absolutely 'stupid' I though HDMI was - why would anyone want an all in one connection when most people want the video in the TV and the audio in their receiver/prepro. Then, someone here kindly pointed out to me that HDMI will be able to transmit over much longer runs than a DVI cable.

Don't know how true that is - I still would prefer to plug my "DVI" cable driectly from the source to the TV, and the audio separately from my source to my receiver. However, if all the above is true, I can see a benefit with HDMI. To be honest, what would make the most sense from a consumer standpoint would be to have 3 HDMI 'inputs' in your receiver, and 1 "DVI" output to your TV, as I still feel and no one will convince me otherwise that an HDMI port on a tv is a complete waste. I.E. - If I wanted sound from my TV, why the h*#L would I spend the thousands on a receiver and speakers, kinda dumb isn't it????

[jdepew]

Kpt,

One the ideas behind the HDMI spec is that it allows for lots of flexibility while reducing the number of cables.
Imagine being able to connect your DVD player to the amp with 1 cable, the HD STB to the Amp with 1 cable and new XBox2 with one cable, all using HDMI
Thereby reducing the number of cables to connect 4 componets from dozens to 3. From there - just one more HDMI cable to the TV.

The amp.receiver will do the selection as it normally would, except there's the possbility of remotes swtiching (Amp changes input to DVD when you play one). Then the HMDI cable to th TV will take the selected video source, and version of the sound that is can handle. Should you choose simply to use the TV speakers, like when the neighbor kids are over to watch Nemo and they can't figure out how to change volume on our laptop sized remotes. The Data is still available at the amp/receiver so you can use it from there as you'd like.

HDMI has the potential to make life alot easier, if not less cable cluttered. If teh SACD DVD-A folks can get themselves straight and allow the digital streams to be used, they can be used in HDMI. Perhaps people would be willing to try out Hi Definition audio when they don't have to connect 5+ analog channels.

The goal - plug and play. There are bound to be better, faster, cheaper, solutions out there, but this one right now has the most potential to make A/V component hookup almost foolproof. Of course, we can always look forward to using Firewire for setting up local networks amongst the components as well.

Anyway - I like the jdea of HDMI, I think we should keep it, improve on it yes, but keep it.

Oh and your question about why HDMI on the TV when you've got an amp for the audio. Not everyone buys amps, speakers, powerline conditioners and all the crazy things we do.

For the general public it would be amazing - DVD <----HDMI-----> TV
done, voila! It just works.

Personally, I want confirmation that HDMI does not/will not support thr DualLink feature of DVI. I find it odd that the HDMI spec includes DVI specs and adds a new connector and audio. I'm itching to buy a 1080p display and need my bandwidth!!!!

[TauRus]

Originally posted by Kpt_Krunch
Correct me if I am wrong here - but is not the format for SACD and DVD-A a resident 'Analog' signal, hence the reason why it cannot be transmitted via a digital interface, toslink (opitcal) or coaxil? Firewire meanwhile, has the ability to do both.

I also brought up in another post a while ago how absolutely 'stupid' I though HDMI was - why would anyone want an all in one connection when most people want the video in the TV and the audio in their receiver/prepro. Then, someone here kindly pointed out to me that HDMI will be able to transmit over much longer runs than a DVI cable.

Don't know how true that is - I still would prefer to plug my "DVI" cable driectly from the source to the TV, and the audio separately from my source to my receiver. However, if all the above is true, I can see a benefit with HDMI. To be honest, what would make the most sense from a consumer standpoint would be to have 3 HDMI 'inputs' in your receiver, and 1 "DVI" output to your TV, as I still feel and no one will convince me otherwise that an HDMI port on a tv is a complete waste. I.E. - If I wanted sound from my TV, why the h*#L would I spend the thousands on a receiver and speakers, kinda dumb isn't it????

KPT, not sure what you meant exactly by SACD/ DVD-A being a "resident 'Analog' signal". They both are of course digitalaudio formats, DVD-A is based on high resolution PCM, SACD is based on DSD (Direct Stream Digital). They are not "analog" as recorded on discs. Due to digital rights concerns, initially the industry allowed only analog transmission of both SACD and DVD-A from the source (SACD/DVD-A player) to external amps/receievers. SACD and DVD-A tracks were converted to analog signal internally inside the player and were sent out through 5.1 analog interconnects. Nowadays, we have more options, at least on select players - iLink, and soon HDMI will take the raw digital SACD/DVD-A data and send them without any modification to external decoders.

Also, I really dont get this "stupid HDMI" campaign. It is absolutely a step in the right direction. As more units like receivers, pre/pro's etc will come with HDMI interface, we will only need one cable to transmit raw digital audio and video data from the player to the processor, that will send video to your TV set and process audio for BM, time alignment, channel calibration, DSP, etc, and then send the data further to the amplifier.

[Jim Kiler]

SACD/DVD-A cannot be transmitted over digital coax or optical cables (due to bandwidth limitations).

Is that really true? Isn't DVD-A using the same compression as iTunes which is smaller than audio from a CD. From reading the other posts it sounds like the real reason is lack of a copy protection scheme.

[HDTVFAN0001]

Originally posted by TauRus
Also, I really dont get this "stupid HDMI" campaign. It is absolutely a step in the right direction. As more units like receivers, pre/pro's etc will come with HDMI interface, we will only need one cable to transmit raw digital audio and video data from the player to the processor, that will send video to your TV set and process audio for BM, time alignment, channel calibration, DSP, etc, and then send the data further to the amplifier.
If the only reason to have HDMI is to eliminate a cable, then forget HDMI. I'd rather have 2 quality cables for the different paths. The few bucks you save with one less cable isn't worth re-tooling all your equipment.

This sounds like another dumb idea from the manufacturers in their planned obsolecence campaigns.

[Q of BanditZ]

Yeah, HDMI is a nice convenience, but I don't think that's a "critical" thing to check off on the purchase list, imho.

[PhilB]

Originally posted by Jim Kiler
Is that really true? Isn't DVD-A using the same compression as iTunes which is smaller than audio from a CD. From reading the other posts it sounds like the real reason is lack of a copy protection scheme.

Yes, that is really true. DVD-A uses MLP lossless compression, and I imagine iTunes uses some lossy compression. Also, DVD-A has a much higher sample rate and longer data word than the iTunes material (in other words, higher bandwidth per channel) plus DVD-A is designed to be multi-channel capable (I believe it's 5.1). SPDIF is speced to be able to handle two-channel 24/96 PCM data or multi-channel compressed audio, but doesn't have anywhere near the bandwidth to handle DVD-A data rates.

Both SACD and DVD-A have copy protection built into them. DVD-A uses the same protection as DVD-V. Since that has been cracked, the music studios are not going to allow DVD-A bitstreams to be broadcast in the free-and-clear. That's why DVD-A is being stalled until secure transport streams, such as 1394 or HDMI with HDCP are more prevalent.

-phil

[wilsons5]

The "reputable dealer" I mentioned is not a big internet dealer, but a local Zenith dealer in the Atlanta Area. I'm not trying to drum up any internet sales, or a mad rush. - Just posting what he was told by Samsung. If it doesn't come in by next Tuesday, then his salesman must have been misleading. I'll post as soon as I get one, or they change the delivery date.

[Robert Whitehead]

The Samsung Press Release from the CES show states that ONLY the HD941 has Faroudja denterlacing/scaling. It does not mention which is used in the HD841. Through a Google search I found only one reference to the HD841 having Faroudja: one of the many CES reports. But, I wouldn't be surprised if the HD841 has Faroudja, too, and Samsung is trying to push the HD941 in the PR.

[mrtanner]

If they had the same deinterlacer, then what would the difference between hd841 and HD941 be?

[zoro]

Originally posted by mrtanner
If they had the same deinterlacer, then what would the difference between hd841 and HD941 be?

same Q? why $100 more?

[RedBaronF2001]

Originally posted by mrtanner
If they had the same deinterlacer, then what would the difference between hd841 and HD941 be?

Samsung claims to have added adjustable black level to the 941 which could mean a new/tweaked/updated MPEG decoder.

[bollingm]

I do not think they they both have HDMI.

[hardy]

Originally posted by PhilB
DVD-A uses the same protection as DVD-V. Since that has been cracked, the music studios are not going to allow DVD-A bitstreams to be broadcast in the free-and-clear. That's why DVD-A is being stalled until secure transport streams, such as 1394 or HDMI with HDCP are more prevalent.

I believe DVD-A uses a different encryption system from DVD-V, and also enforces a standards-based implementation that cripples digital output during playback.

[BillP]

Originally posted by bollingm
I do not think they they both have HDMI.

The 841 has DVI, and the 941 HDMI. Not worth anything to me, let alone $100, since I'll be using analog RCAs directly to my preamp for audio anyway. Until these are actually available, we're only quessing as to any differences in video or audio quality.

[cpc]

Do either of the 841 and/or 941 have any aspect ratio control/zooming for non-anamoprhic DVD's? Stretching the vertical for non-anamorphic widescreen material and squeezing the horizontal for full screen/4:3 material?

This looks like it MAY be the best way to connect to a Panasonic PT-AE/L500 or Sanyo Z2 at the moment. DVI and 720p with Faroudja de-interlacing, but without the vertical stretch or horizontal squeeze, it may be less than ideal.

[PhilB]

Originally posted by hardy
I believe DVD-A uses a different encryption system from DVD-V, and also enforces a standards-based implementation that cripples digital output during playback.

Hardy,

You're right about the DVD-A copy protection. Guess I should have done some reasearch before making an assumption. DVD-A uses CPPM which is an enhanced CSS.

As far as digital out goes, there are already several players available which have digital output for DVD-A. One example is the Denon DVD-5900 which has both a proprietary DenonLink and a 1394 connection which both can carry DVD-A (as well as SACD) in their unadulterated form.

-phil

[daggerNC]

What I don't see mentioned here is another advantage to HDMI over DVI besides the longer cable lengths is the smaller connector. For us with display systems that have the display device separated by many feet from the video source(s) (DVD, cable box, etc) the length issue is critical. And perhaps even more valuable is the smaller connector form factor - I have a front PJ and the cabling runs and wiring outlets won't support something much over an inch wide.

I also look forward to the day I have HDMI switching on my A/V processor and all my source and display devices - much simplification!

Cheers

[cpc]

So does anybody know whether any of these 831, 841 and 941 Samsung's have aspect ratio correction for stretching non-anamorhic DVD's?

[bollingm]

Originally posted by daggerNC
I also look forward to the day I have HDMI switching on my A/V processor and all my source and display devices - much simplification!

Cheers

This I think will be the key, hopefully in the next year... HUH?

[Iceblade]

I think basically all anyone really knows is what was in the press announcement around CES and that is

"The DVD-HD941 additionally features no-compromise video performance enhancements like Faroudja's Directional Correlational De-interlacing (DCDi™) technology, HDMI output, black level adjustment, increased resolution settings and discrete IR codes."

Your guess is as good as mine when it comes to the phrase "increased resolution settings", but for those of you debating the $100 difference and if it was worth it, providing discrete codes in the 941 and NOT in the 841 would steer me towards the 941 in a heartbeat, as I'm sure alot of other people with "tech challenged" S.O.'s would say as well.

So many questions, and as yet, no real answers until one of us gets our greasy mits on one of the suckers and pries it open. :)

Regs,
Jeff

[Hi Deaf]

I'll be waiting for the Bravo D3.

[aghusker]

Originally posted by Hi Deaf
I'll be waiting for the Bravo D3.

I thought I would wait for D3 also, but I heard it is still under development.
May not be out for 6 months or more!

D2 did just come out today, so that is encouraging.
I'm still betting we may not see D3 by Christmas.


EDIT: Per Jim Noyd of V Inc, D3 will come out "in a couple of months." Probably will end up being 3-4 months.

[EL]

I had the opportunity to attend to a presentation of Samsung new product and the Product Trainer told me that the 941 will not be available to canada. :(
Only the 841 and he told me that it has faroudja.
But since there was no 841 to show yet, I won't trust his word 100% on that matter.

great DLP RPTV though.

[jflvnv]

My local Best Buy in the Seattle area has a shipping date of May 23 for the 841 dvd player but the 941 was not yet in their system.

[jazzcat]

I read this from the Amazon description:

"720p, 768p, and 1080i upconversion from conventional DVD-Video images"

Ok, I am familiar with 720p and 1080i, but I confess I don't know about 768p. Could someone in the know explain that one to me?

Thanks,

Mark

[aghusker]

It is for plasma's native resolution, 42" size I believe.

[jazzcat]

Thanks aghusker.

[BillP]

Originally posted by EL
I had the opportunity to attend to a presentation of Samsung new product and the Product Trainer told me that the 941 will not be available to canada. :(
Only the 841 and he told me that it has faroudja.
But since there was no 841 to show yet, I won't trust his word 100% on that matter.

great DLP RPTV though.

If the 841 has Faroudja, then the extra $100 for the 941 really does not make much sense.

[iqwertyi]

I think the extra $100 on the 941 also buys you DVD-A, correct?

The ability to output at 768 makes it very attractive for me since I'm going to be hooking it up to a plasma.

[BillP]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by iqwertyi
[B]I think the extra $100 on the 941 also buys you DVD-A, correct?

Both the 841 and 941 play both SACD and DVD-A.

[BigandLoud1234]

Until both the 841 and 941 come out nobody really knows all the differences.

However, I think the the most important things you get with the 941 over the 841 are Discrete IR codes and Black level adjustments.......

[statman]

Looks like Amazon has recently improved their pricing for both the 841 and 941 pre-orders.

[EL]

If the 841 has Faroudja, then the extra $100 for the 941 really does not make much sense.
I know, that's why I'm saying I'm not trusting the trainer! :)
I just hope he was also wrong for the 941 not being available to canada.

Beside Robert said before:
The Samsung Press Release from the CES show states that ONLY the HD941 has Faroudja denterlacing/scaling

[[ECGN] Tommy Boy]

has anyone actually seen it yet or are we still a few weeks away?

[daggerNC]

Originally posted by jazzcat
I read this from the Amazon description:

"720p, 768p, and 1080i upconversion from conventional DVD-Video images"

Ok, I am familiar with 720p and 1080i, but I confess I don't know about 768p. Could someone in the know explain that one to me?

Thanks,

Mark

A number of HD display devices have a native WXGA resolution of 1366x768 (like the Sony HS10 and other LCD displays and some Plasmas). Thus a 768p output would support a native resolution for these display devices (caveat for the HS10 at 56Hz refresh rate :( ).

[Neo57]

Originally posted by daggerNC
A number of HD display devices have a native WXGA resolution of 1366x768 (like the Sony HS10 and other LCD displays and some Plasmas). Thus a 768p output would support a native resolution for these display devices (caveat for the HS10 at 56Hz refresh rate :( ).

Would this also include the Sony GWIII LCD. I have seen miltiple debates on whether or not it is trully 788p or 768? This has been asked by myself and a few others, maybe within this post. Please don't flame. Just trying to get a difinitive answer. Thanks.

[[ECGN] Tommy Boy]

Based on the info here, and on a couple of other threads, how would you say the upcoming Samsung 841 or 941 compares to the LG DV7832NXC (Zenith in the US)?

The LG looks pretty good to me but what I have been told is that the LG will not pass 1080i by component on copy protected disc's and will revert back to 480p even though your display and or the player may still read 1080i. Also DCDi only works when using a 1080i signal and only a 1080i signal. Next the player will not pass 480i by component to a scaler or display with built in scaling only 480p, 720p and 1080i. Lastly LG is working and a fix for the DVI white crush but have no time table for when this will be available.

Has anyone else heard these things? Should I wait a couple of more weeks for the Samsung?

[drumheller]

Originally posted by jazzcat
I read this from the Amazon description:

"720p, 768p, and 1080i upconversion from conventional DVD-Video images"

Ok, I am familiar with 720p and 1080i, but I confess I don't know about 768p. Could someone in the know explain that one to me?

Thanks,

Mark

1024x768 P (non-interlaced) a standard computer res .... in computers the res is 4:3 but in plasma and LCD TVs its 16:9 ..... little weird to me ...

[RedBaronF2001]

Originally posted by drumheller
1024x768 P (non-interlaced) a standard computer res .... in computers the res is 4:3 but in plasma and LCD TVs its 16:9 ..... little weird to me ...

"Non-square" pixels. Strange to me too. But, it's what they do these days.

[BigandLoud1234]

Originally posted by [ECGN] Tommy Boy
Based on the info here, and on a couple of other threads, how would you say the upcoming Samsung 841 or 941 compares to the LG DV7832NXC (Zenith in the US)?



---------
I think you are referring to the Zenith DVB318(US Model)....Which should up convert all disk to 1080i, but this is wrong discussion thread for that(visit: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=328403). If you are looking for a DVD to upconvert via component.....Samsung will not be for you. If however you want a DVD player that will play DVD-A and SACD, I would probably wait....as neither LG nor Zenith are universal players. But until these models actually hit the shelves, I think it would be way pre-mature to compare the Samsung models to anything else. I just hope they are a big improvement over the Sammy 931.

[sephiroth]

For the 100 bucks between the two, the 941 gets you

1.) Discrete IR code.
2.) Black level adjustment. @!!DLP Tweakers rejoice!!@
3.) HDMI connector (The desc. claims it comes with HDMI to DVI adepter). Does that mean that it comes with the cable, not 100% sure but am quite.

As for the question about that weird 768P. This particular resolution enables a pixel to pixel relation for TV that supports that resolution.

When the debate comes to HDMI, I actually only see incremental differences between that, and DVI and I don't think it would be worth raving about.

For that gentleman who's claim so strongly that HDMI is essential because most people just want to hook it up to the TV and enjoy it, rather then a dozen of cable and all the fuss did fail to realize one detail: the ones whom could and willing to afford 12 grand on a nice HDMI TV alone most likely won't mind tweaking with 200 feets of cable in the house. Yes, 1 cable connection to TV is nice, but no TV speakers are going to give you sound like some nice 7.2 system does. I myself really don't understand why would manufactures spend 100's of millions in outfitting and promoting HDMI when DVI plus a optical cable does the same job equally as well ...

Please correct me on this if I am wrong. Like DVI, HDMI also does not have enough bandwidth to handle 1080P resolution. Is that true? I couldn't quite confirm on this one, but I am about 90% sure that is the case. If that really is true, what possible future does HDMI has?



Oh yes! Remember all that raving about firewire connections about a year ago? I have about $500 worth of it sitting inside some shoe boxes.

[EL]

2. Do I need Single or Dual Link?

Cables come in two classes. Single link cables support bandwidth of 165 MHz or 165 million pixels per second. Dual link can support a bandwidth of 330 MHz. To calculate your bandwidth multiply your horizontal resolution by your vertical resolution by your refresh rate. For example, a standard XGA (1024x768) display would have a refresh rate of 60 Hz. 1024 x 768 x 60 = about 47 MHz. A standard XGA display would easily transmit over a single digital link. A single link cable could support standard HDTV (1920x1080)! Dual link can support QXGA (2048x1536) without any problems. All of our cables are dual link capable cables.


from DVI Gear FAQ, it should have enough bandwidth to do the job. I'm no expert, there are maybe other factors.

[jazzcat]

Originally posted by EL
from DVI Gear FAQ, it should have enough bandwidth to do the job. I'm no expert, there are maybe other factors.

From blue jeans cable site: http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/dvi/index.htm

First, when you're looking for a DVI cable, it's important to be sure you know what type of signal you need to carry. The DVI connection can be used either to carry a digital video signal (DVI-D) or to carry an analog signal (DVI-A) or both. The only way to be sure what your device accepts or puts out through the DVI connector is to examine the connection point and consult your manual. At right are pictures of a DVI-D plug (digital only) and a DVI-I plug (used for analog video, with or without digital video alongside). As you can see, the difference between the two lies at the right side; the DVI-D plug has a single, wide flat pin, while the DVI-I plug has that same pin, but also four additional pins, two above and two below it. Those pins are used to carry the red, green, blue and horizontal sync (R,G,B and H) lines of an RGBHV analog video signal (the vertical sync lies on another pin). If the receptacles on your devices don't have holes which will accept these four pins, then you have a DVI-D connection, which is all digital, no analog. If the receptacles do have holes for these pins, then you need to know whether both the digital and the analog modes are available on the DVI port--check your user's manual.


They will be coming out with a HDMI to DVI cable that would eliminate the need for an adapter.

So I am assuming the 941 does not have a DVI out? Only HDMI? Depending on what review you read it has both or just HDMI. Confusing as to what kind if cable to get.

[Grubert]

jazzcat, you're confusing HDCP with HDMI. HDCP is a copy-protection protocol, HDMI is a connection.

[jazzcat]

Originally posted by Grubert
jazzcat, you're confusing HDCP with HDMI. HDCP is a copy-protection protocol, HDMI is a connection.

Thanks for the heads up! I edited the post.

[stephenfrancis]

Originally posted by RedBaronF2001
"Non-square" pixels. Strange to me too. But, it's what they do these days.

There are many displays that have widescreen resolutions of 1280x768 and 1366x768.

Steve

[BHendershot]

I need a fairly long cable to go from the cabinet where my DVD player will be, across the drop ceiling to where the projector will be. Why are the DVI cables so expensive? A 12' footer will cost about 1/2 as much as the player itself. Admittedly I haven't shopped around yet.

[Iceblade]

For a run like that, I think most would recommend that you go with an HDMI cable rather than a DVI. Seems to me that there was some discussion on this earlier this month on long cable runs and DVI vs. HDMI. My understanding is that the HDMI spec allows for MUCH longer cable runs than the DVI spec. Just a thought.

Other than that, in answer to your question, they are that expensive for the same reason that optical and coax audio cables are. Because the manufacturers know that we'll pay that for them, unfortunately.

Good luck,
Jeff


Originally posted by BHendershot
I need a fairly long cable to go from the cabinet where my DVD player will be, across the drop ceiling to where the projector will be. Why are the DVI cables so expensive? A 12' footer will cost about 1/2 as much as the player itself. Admittedly I haven't shopped around yet.

[TauRus]

Originally posted by BHendershot
I need a fairly long cable to go from the cabinet where my DVD player will be, across the drop ceiling to where the projector will be. Why are the DVI cables so expensive? A 12' footer will cost about 1/2 as much as the player itself. Admittedly I haven't shopped around yet.
Or alternatively you could use optical DVI cable that allows for longer runs, but this is also an insanely expensive solution.

[sephiroth]

I have been researching on that also.
Caught in the dilemma of where to place my HTPC inbeteen the TV and the monitor itself. My idea is that I want to use my Dell FP1901 LCD for everyday work, and still have the option of using the TV for once-in-a-while gaming, or playing back the last 10 minutes of that DVD, whom both of my other DVD players refuse to play back.

I have only had 2 hours to research on that so far, and this is what I find out so far. It seem the cut-off-point for cable length for DVI is about 5 ft, and of course, if you pay for higher end cable, you might get up to 10 ft without apparent lost of PQ.

VGA cable wise, I have been lead to believe that I could run it up to 15 ft without having to buy a repeater, which is a $130 piece of hardware.
(assuming it has a "clean" run, not in between magnets, power supply, etc)

Well, if 10 feet is all you need, you can consider the belkin cables. Buy it via their website and use coupon code "12345" to get 50% off everything (except refurbish) .... no quite sure about the price, but I believe it to be around $50.

NOW, if you are very geeky and owns a soldering wire. You can recycle one of your old DVI cable and make a cable that will run up to 100ft for FREE. (50ft guarantee) *Sure I am catching everyone's attention now* RGB signal (DVI cable) could be run via the medium of cat5 cable (Ethernet cable) for a much longer length. Just dice the cable off of your DVI, solder your wires correctly, and you will have one hell of a long cable for free. You could find details on that by running a search on "DVI cable or "long cable" via the HTPC forum for it.

If you can't find it, let me know, I will find that link and post it up then.

[bollingm]

I hope 5ft is not the limit, when I finsihed my basement I put a 3m run of DVI cable in the wall, I still have no devince to use it, I was trying to think ahead, I guess I will find out when one of these players comes out.

[stephenfrancis]

5m is currently the understood limit for DVI. However, there are some manufacturers extending this limit up to 10m utilizing high quality materials. RAM electronics is a company selling 10m DVI cables with a guarantee of no loss.

I use Cable America DVI cables and have no issues up to 5m with the cables at 1280x720x60Hz from my HTPC to my Sanyo Z2. I also have a 2m DVI extension (5m is a tad too short). With it, I do see sparkles. However, when I drop the refresh down to 50Hz, the sparkles disappear. So, resolution/frequency also has an effect on length.

Check out the DVI cables from RAM electronics. I've read good reviews about long lengths with their cables.

Steve

[bollingm]

thanks but he thing is, this cable is already in teh wall, not sure if I could run another.

[Patrick TX]

The 841 picture on Amazon shows the DCDI logo on the front panel.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0001H4BMU/ref=pd_sbs_e_1/102-5290744-2044951?v=glance&s=electronics

Also, according to Sony, the GWIII has a native resolution of 1386 x 788. Hopefully one of these Sammys can output that resolution.

[zoro]

Looks same PIC to me 4 BOTH!

[stephenfrancis]

From Samsung's press release: (http://www.samsungusa.com/cgi-bin/nabc/news/b2c_press_detail.jsp?eUser=&oid=68387)

"The DVD-HD941 additionally features no-compromise video performance enhancements like Faroudja's Directional Correlational De-interlacing (DCDi™) technology, HDMI output, black level adjustment, increased resolution settings and discrete IR codes. "

Steve

[Patrick TX]

Looks same PIC to me 4 BOTH!

I thought the same initially. The display is different on the 841 pic, and the dcdi logo is there.

[BillP]

Both are now available at great prices at Amazon.com ($255 and $170 for the 941 and 841), with estimated shipping dates late July.

[cpc]

HDMI to DVI cable?

[BillP]

Included in the 941 box is an HDMI cable and an HDMI/DVI adapter, so everything you need should be there whether you have an HDMI or DVI input on your HDTV.

[HTCrazy]

I still haven't heard confirmation on whether the new Sammy's will pass pluge - video standard blacks - as opposed to the 931. "Black level adjustment" sounds like the artificial black level stuff you get on Sony TV's and PJ's that don't do much but kill shadow detail.

[Iceblade]

I had actually assumed that "balck level adjustment" meant that you can toggle between the 0 and 7.5 IRE settings, but that was just speculation as opposed to genuine knowledge. Anyone else know what is meant by that statement?

Later,
Jeff

[Helter]

I took the plunge today an ordered the 941 from Amazon.
That's going to be a tough price to beat.
I hope they have corrected the problems the 931 had or else it's going back.

[kring]

Best Buy closed out the 931's and sold off their floor displays last week, which usually means Samsung isn't shipping orders any longer on the 931's. If that's the case the it's very possible they could be out in as little as 2 weeks, I doubt Samsung would go a full quarter with no DVD product on the market (assuming the stated Jul/Aug release)

[gwsat]

I placed an order for a 941 from Amazon, too, but cancelled it nearly immediately because Amazon said that my order would not ship until May 20th, which is nearly a week from now. Sad previous experience has taught me that when Amazon gives you a ship date that much later than your order date they don't have the item in stock and there is a good chance it won't ship by the estimated ship date. I'll either look elsewhere for another machine like this or consider another brand.

[BillP]

Nobody has this item in stock yet (it is not yet available from Samsung). It will be available anywhere from the end of this month to July (anybody's guess). Previously, Amazon was saying a July ship date, so they must have just moved up the expected date (a very good sign).

[zoro]

May is way sooner than mid July most people got from Amazon..

[George Montemayor]

Anyone know if the 841 or the 941 will be chroma bug-free?

[BHendershot]

The specs for the projector I have on order say that it has DVI, so I assume I would need to buy an HDMI adapter which would provide the HDMI to DVI connectiviy if I go with the HDMI cable. Are there any trade-offs between the two cable types in terms of performance?

[BHendershot]

Sorry for the back-to-back posts. If the HD-941 has the Faroudja de-interlacer and my projector has it as well through the DVI connection. Which device will be doing the job if I connect them via DVI?

[BillP]

BHendershot,
The 941 comes with an HDMI cable and an HDMI/DVI adapter, so you don't need to buy anything else (unless you want to upgrade the cable). Unless you have a very long run, DVI and HDMI cables are similar in quality. The Faroujda chip in the 941 is used to upscale the output. Don't know if the projector's chip will also be used.

[zoro]

841 listed at onecall

[BHendershot]

Thanks BillP. As long as this unit passes DD and DTS through to my receiver for decoding, I think I may have found my player. I've seen Faroudja touted as being desirable for quite some time. Is this a newer version that provides the upconversion to 720p/1080i or does any player with the Faroujda circuitry have that capability?

[studmuff]

Just to warn people! I have a Samsung HD-931 which I love. I was able to get one last May-June over the internet before they became available to the masses (eg Best Buy). It had its problems being one of the first models--eg no 1080i resolution, picture was off center on my Toshiba 65HDX82. Although Samsung did send me an update disc. But it took a good month or two to get it right and still had minor problems.

I guess what I'm saying is don't rush into Buying one until they are massed produced.

Also Samsung's Customer Services wasn't at all friendly or helpful to me.

[aghusker]

Originally posted by George Montemayor
Anyone know if the 841 or the 941 will be chroma bug-free?

With Faroudja (941), you can pretty much bank on NO chroma problems.
Just go look at Secrets Shootout, every Faroudja there pretty much passes the tests.

[aghusker]

Originally posted by Patrick TX
I thought the same initially. The display is different on the 841 pic, and the dcdi logo is there.

I'm doubting the Faroudja in in the 841, regardless of what the pic shows.
The press release clearly lists Faroudja as being an additional feature.

Now, things may have changed since the press release in Jan.
I ordered the 941. I just hope I am getting something substantial extra for the $100 MSRP difference.

If the 841 had Faroudja, I would be happy with it.
I'm a little nervous the whole HDMI-to-DVI blacker than black thing won't haunt me w/ the 941 purchase. If 941 does correct video levels & blacker than black to my DVI LCD RPTV, then I will be very happy.
The 8 month wait for a good DVI/HDMI player will have been worth it!!

[George Montemayor]

Originally posted by aghusker
With Faroudja (941), you can pretty much bank on NO chroma problems.
Just go look at Secrets Shootout, every Faroudja there pretty much passes the tests.
That's because the Faroudja masks the mpeg decoder's chroma bug. The Skyworth DVD-1050P is one example. However I would prefer players that don't have the chroma problem in the first place.

[zoro]

Look at ONECALL web site, the PIC there also shows DCDI

[gwsat]

BillP -- Thanks for the information on the estimated ship date for the 941. I may re-place my Amazon order on or after the 20th and see if they actually have them in stock by then. I'll report what I learn here.

One thing confuses me. I had inferred from some of the posts I read here that some folks had the 941 already. But if it hasn't shipped yet how could that be?

[Brett Miles]

I pre-ordered the 941 a couple days ago from J&R. They matched the Amazon price with shipping and told me the in-stock date was the 1st of next month, though things sometimes arrive sooner than the date they're given. If if was something like the newest Amazon date of May 20, I'd be pretty happy! Now I need to order an HDMI->DVI cable. I'm sure the included one will only be 6ft. which isn't long enough for my setup. I'm leaning toward Pacific Cable unless someone suggests otherwise.

[aghusker]

Originally posted by gwsat
BillP -- Thanks for the information on the estimated ship date for the 941. I may re-place my Amazon order on or after the 20th and see if they actually have them in stock by then. I'll report what I learn here.

One thing confuses me. I had inferred from some of the posts I read here that some folks had the 941 already. But if it hasn't shipped yet how could that be?

Re-read the thread. No one has the 841 or 941 yet.

[BillP]

Originally posted by aghusker
Re-read the thread. No one has the 841 or 941 yet.

That is correct. It's the 931 (last year's model) that people have.

[zoro]

I tried to Re order from amazon, date stays July , no May..Did any one got confirmed may? on 841 or 941?

[gwsat]

Zoro -- As noted earlier, my order confirmation from Amazon for a 941 said that it would ship on May 20 before I cancelled it. I don't know what to make of the fact that your order says it will not ship until July. It may be that I outsmarted myself and the units Amazon expects to ship on May 20 had all been spoken for by the time you ordered

aghusker -- Simply asking other posters whether some of them already had the 941 made more sense to me than re-reading the multiple posts in multiple threads in which the 941 had been discussed.

[Bevoabb]

I ordered the Sammy 941 today. Amazon reports estimated ship date of July 22-24. We're moving to a new house and taking some summer vacation, so that date works for me.

This looks like a very good DVI-capabale player. Can't wait to check it out.

For those of you wanting some info about DVI-ready players, I found this very helpful:

http://www.digiupdate.com/251_HD_DVD_Players.html

[statman]

Regarding May 20th vs a July date for the Sammy 941 at Amazon: I originally ordered in early May, then cancelled and re-ordered on May 9th when I first saw that the price went down. I then went into the checkout again yesterday after gwsat's post to see what date it would give me. Every time I have seen a July date. I'm not going to question what gwsat is saying, but based on my experience my guess is that the May 20th date couldn't have been in their system for very long.

Anyway, I don't exactly think Amazon is the best source when it comes to projecting dates of availability on DVD players. Several people are upset w/ them after having had open orders on the Panny S97 for a very several months as the dates gradually shifted. Now the Panny S97 player is not available for pre-order at Amazon. They just might not have their system up-to-date yet as they are awaiting more certain information.

Given that a local Zenith dealer in Georgia was saying mid-May (basically this weekend), Best Buy in Seattle is saying May 23rd for the 841, Best Buy has closed out the 931, and now J&R is saying June 1st; I'm fairly optimistic that my Amazon pre-order for the Sammy 941 might be shipping sometime within the next 2 weeks or so even though the Amazon site is currently saying July. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[gwsat]

Statman -- I just rechecked my order confirmation from Amazon and realized that I had ordered a 931, not a 941. Color me inattentive. Anyway, I did cancel the order -- even if it was for the wrong reasons. I apoligize to one and all for the confusion I have created. As Tony Kornheiser says, I'll try to do better the next time.

[statman]

No problem, gwsat. An honest mistake, I make those all the time myself. Thanks for letting us know, and good thing they didn't get that 931 shipped before you could cancel.

[hpm123]

-wasn't Samsung to release a WM9-ready DVD player sometime Q4 of this year? Any of the Sammy faithfull recall their plans on a true HD-DVD player release?

The 941 sounds interesting but if a true HD DVD format player capable of upscaling SD DVD's is soon to hit the market, I may have to hold off on the 941 purchase -

[blipszyc]

Just checked the 841 out on OneCall's site. Shows DVD-A and SACD, and the picture definitely shows the DCDi logo. So now I'm confused, what's the differences between the 841 and 941?

[hpm123]

Originally posted by blipszyc
Just checked the 841 out on OneCall's site. Shows DVD-A and SACD, and the picture definitely shows the DCDi logo. So now I'm confused, what's the differences between the 841 and 941?

Blip - someone posted this link earlier, which towards the bottom has the differencess between 941 and 841.

http://www.digiupdate.com/251_HD_DVD_Players.html

[Rijax]

Originally posted by hpm123
-wasn't Samsung to release a WM9-ready DVD player sometime Q4 of this year? Any of the Sammy faithfull recall their plans on a true HD-DVD player release?

The 941 sounds interesting but if a true HD DVD format player capable of upscaling SD DVD's is soon to hit the market, I may have to hold off on the 941 purchase -
This is from the ariticle your link above provided.

"Only one HD-WM9 DVD player has been announced so far, Bravo D3 by V. Inc., to be released in mid 2004. This player also plays standard definition DVD's and up-converts them."

[hpm123]

Originally posted by Rijax
This is from the ariticle your link above provided.

"Only one HD-WM9 DVD player has been announced so far, Bravo D3 by V. Inc., to be released in mid 2004. This player also plays standard definition DVD's and up-converts them."

yea, but seem to recall discussion at some point in the past on sammy and a wm9 unit - may have been something i recalled in a dream -

[Rijax]

Originally posted by hpm123
- may have been something i recalled in a dream -
LOL! I have those dreams myself. :D Sammy and WM9 doesn't ring a bell with me, but I have been wrong once...................OK, twice in my life. ;)

[hpm123]

Twice? You're doing quite well! I'm good for at least one a week.

The sammy and wm9 rumor was around the last ces event I think. Probably that, just a rumor. I tried the 931 unit on my HLN5065, and the blue light was a bit much...had to return it. Have been holding out for a backwards compatible wm9 unit, so may just have to wait for the bravo unit - have a good day

[sgunn]

Originally posted by wilsons5
As I stated above, a reputable dealer told me that he has a delivery date from Samsung of May 13-17th.


wilsons5,

So today is May 17th, any word from your dealer?

Stephen

[wilsons5]

I checked Friday & was told "any day now". They buy direct from Samsung and and been given those delivery dates on their entire order - including 941's.
I will check again tomorrow. I'm starting to think that Best Buy may have the 841 before he gets his order - And if it has "the chip", I might just go with that, as DVI would be fine for me.
Hopefully, It states the chip on the box like the 931 did.

[[ECGN] Tommy Boy]

nothing released here in Canada...still being told "June"...

[ddp]

Wilson,
Do you mind tell me the dealer's name, I'm in Atlanta too. I want it so bad.

Thanks
Jason

[jimmykce]

I saw at www.onecall.com the Sammy 841 for preorder. Which will be better to get the 941 or 841 for a Sammy DLP?

[JBaumgart]

Any word on the AUDIO quality of these units? Assume it's the same as the 931? If so, how are these compared to the better Denon units, for example?

[Robert Whitehead]

In answer to the ? about the 841/941 differences, I believe they are as follows:
1) 841 has DVI out. 941 has HDMI out (and DVI/HDMI adaptor).
2) The 941 supports one additional resolution over the 841, 1366x768, I believe.
3) The 941 has discrete IR remote codes.
4) The 941 has a black level contriol on HDMI out.

[WynsWrld98]

Does anyone know if the 768p output of the Sammy HD841/HD941 DVD players has timings in that mode that will work with the Sony HS10/HS20 projectors?

[aghusker]

Originally posted by Robert Whitehead
In answer to the ? about the 841/941 differences, I believe they are as follows:
1) 841 has DVI out. 941 has HDMI out (and DVI/HDMI adaptor).
2) The 941 supports one additional resolution over the 841, 1366x768, I believe.
3) The 941 has discrete IR remote codes.
4) The 941 has a black level contriol on HDMI out.

5) 941 has Faourdja DCDi. 841 does not (per Jan press release). However, pics of 841 on onecall.com & amazon.com show the DCDi logo.
Unknown until the 841 actually comes out.

[santellavision]

Before committing on buying a 941 and using it with an HDMI-to-DVI adaptor, you might want to wait to find out if it has the dreaded HDMI-DVI conversion bug. The Pioneer 59i has it. It's only when you convert from HDMI-to DVI. You might want to wait to read the tests before ordering. Read this...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=385388&perpage=20&pagenumber=1,

[BruceOmega]

Ernie,

What is the HDMI to DVI conversion bug on the 59AVi? I thought an HDMI <-> DVI cable like I use simply matched pins and connectors for video information at each end - no format conversion.

Thanks
Bruce

[Iceblade]

Bruce,

Check that link that Ernie included in his post. It goes into lots of detail about what the issue is and why it is present in some devices. Since Samsung screwed the poodle with both the 931 DVDP and the TS160 STB, I am hoping and praying that they finally popped theirs heads from their derrieres and got it RIGHT this time with the 841 and 941.

Regs,
Jeff

[blipszyc]

Originally posted by Robert Whitehead
In answer to the ? about the 841/941 differences, I believe they are as follows:
1) 841 has DVI out. 941 has HDMI out (and DVI/HDMI adaptor).
2) The 941 supports one additional resolution over the 841, 1366x768, I believe.
3) The 941 has discrete IR remote codes.
4) The 941 has a black level contriol on HDMI out.

Thanks. I think I'll put my name down for a 941 (@ Amazon now - HD941 (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0001H4BZC/qid=1084893613/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl23/103-7411253-7703867?v=glance&s=electronics&n=507846) ) since I'll eventually be getting a Sony HS20, of which I can use HDMI and 1366x768!

Interestingly, the title @ Amazon for the 841 says "HDTV-Compatible Upconverter DVD Player" while the 941 says "HDTV-Compatible Upconverter DVD Player with DCDi Technology" despite the pictures. Perhaps the 841 and 941 pics are the only ones Amazon and OneCall had until they products actually release.

[javeryh]

Is this player capable of playing DVD-Rs?

[Brajesh]

I'm sure that'll be a "yes". At this point, I don't think any manufacturer would leave out DVD-R/RW & DVD+R/RW playback capability.

[cpc]

Therefore the 841 has no black level control on DVI out?

[WynsWrld98]

blipszyc: I posted a question on the previous page asking if anyone knows if the Sammy 941 will actually work with the Sony HS10/HS20 because my guess is it probably won't (at 768p) due to the unusual refresh rate the Sony HS10/HS20 uses but I'm looking for confirmation. I'm an HS10 owner...

[Robert Whitehead]

No black level cotrol on DVI on 841.

As for the Faroudja/841 issue, the Samsung CES 2004 Press Release did state that Faroudja was a step up addition to the 941 over the 841. CES PRs are notorious for misinformation. It would be cheaper for Samsung to buy one Faroudja chip for both players than to get two separate chips.

A Samsung CSR from Canada told an AVS member that the 841 had Faroudja. But, as most of us know, CSRs are notorious for being wrong.

I believe the best indication is the photos of the 841 on the web. If they clearly show the model number and the Faroudja logo, than the 841 should have Faroudja. The only potential problem with this is if the photo was a pre-production photo which does not reflect the actual production model.

[Rijax]

Originally posted by Robert Whitehead
The only potential problem with this is if the photo was a pre-production photo which does not reflect the actual production model.

Or if, as I suspect, vendors are using a picture of the 941 because a photo of the 841 was/is unavailable.

[aghusker]

Originally posted by Brajesh
I'm sure that'll be a "yes". At this point, I don't think any manufacturer would leave out DVD-R/RW & DVD+R/RW playback capability.

I was concerned about this also.
Per 931 manual, it did support all 4 formats. So I assume new Samsung 841/941 will also.

But the Panny S97, per Canadian catalog, only shows DVD-RAM and DVD-R.
http://home.comcast.net/~fu_family/Features.JPG


So it appears there are some manufacturers that have left off capability.
Bravo & Momitsu play all formats, by the way.

[blipszyc]

Originally posted by WynsWrld98
blipszyc: I posted a question on the previous page asking if anyone knows if the Sammy 941 will actually work with the Sony HS10/HS20 because my guess is it probably won't (at 768p) due to the unusual refresh rate the Sony HS10/HS20 uses but I'm looking for confirmation. I'm an HS10 owner...
I guess we won't know for sure until someone with a HS10/20 hooks up one of these units. Even if it doesn't, the 941 will output 720, which the Sony definitely accepts, and with straight through HDMI connection, that's a plus too.

[TauRus]

Originally posted by Robert Whitehead
In answer to the ? about the 841/941 differences, I believe they are as follows:
1) 841 has DVI out. 941 has HDMI out (and DVI/HDMI adaptor).
2) The 941 supports one additional resolution over the 841, 1366x768, I believe.
3) The 941 has discrete IR remote codes.
4) The 941 has a black level contriol on HDMI out.
Robert, I clearly remember that one of the earliest CES report of these two Sasmsung players mentioned that one of the differences was that HD841 will support stereo SACD only, while HD941 will suport multichannel as well. Since we know how these early reports can be inaccurate, can anyone here confirm this info?

[zoro]

I thought it was re Panasonic players, one with 2 channel dvd audio, other multi channel?

[WynsWrld98]

blipszyc: the attraction of feeding the Sony HS10/HS20 a 1366 x 768 image (vs. something like a 1280 x 720 image) is the Sony doesn't have to do any scaling so scaling is only done once inside the DVD player vs. in the DVD player from 480 to 720p then in the Sony HS10/HS20 from 720p to 1366 x 768.

I'm currently using a Bravo D1 since I can set it up to feed the Sony 1366 x 768 at the proper refresh rate and the image is visibly better than when feeding the Sony a 720p image from the Bravo due to scaling only happening once.

The Bravo D1 has you input all of the parameters so it works with something like the HS10 whereas it's envisioned the Sammy HD-941 will simply have a setting for 768p which probably isn't going to work due to the refresh issue. But from my experience even feeding the Sony a 720p image via DVI/HDMI with a good quality player certainly looks better than feeding it a 480i or 480p image (from my experience with something like the Panny RP91). Ofcourse the downside with the Bravo D1 which is well reported on the AVSForum is its number of bugs/quirky behavior/etc. so the search continues for a standalone DVD player that can provide the Sony a 768p image over DVI (or HDMI) that it can understand and properly display (preferably one with DVD-A and SACD decoding!)...

[Jim Noyd]

Originally posted by WynsWrld98
blipszyc: the attraction of feeding the Sony HS10/HS20 a 1366 x 768 image (vs. something like a 1280 x 720 image) is the Sony doesn't have to do any scaling so scaling is only done once inside the DVD player vs. in the DVD player from 480 to 720p then in the Sony HS10/HS20 from 720p to 1366 x 768.

I'm currently using a Bravo D1 since I can set it up to feed the Sony 1366 x 768 at the proper refresh rate and the image is visibly better than when feeding the Sony a 720p image from the Bravo due to scaling only happening once.

The Bravo D1 has you input all of the parameters so it works with something like the HS10 whereas it's envisioned the Sammy HD-941 will simply have a setting for 768p which probably isn't going to work due to the refresh issue. But from my experience even feeding the Sony a 720p image via DVI/HDMI with a good quality player certainly looks better than feeding it a 480i or 480p image (from my experience with something like the Panny RP91). Ofcourse the downside with the Bravo D1 which is well reported on the AVSForum is its number of bugs/quirky behavior/etc. so the search continues for a standalone DVD player that can provide the Sony a 768p image over DVI (or HDMI) that it can understand and properly display (preferably one with DVD-A and SACD decoding!)... WW98-
Agreed, scaling in the display defeats the benefit of sending the digital RGB HD DVI at the display's native rate.

The new Bravo D2 is available for pre-orders at vinc.com. Has the custom resolution setting built-in and brightness/contrast/color level on DVI but, also has a new loader, power supply, remote control, screen saver and improved analog video output. So if you don't want/need SACD and DVD-Audio you're set with the HS20/10.

[smitchell24]

So based on the above info, the Bravo D2 may actually provide a better PQ for the HS20 even though the Samsung HD-941 has HDMI, due to the Sony's unusual refresh rate??? Would anyone happen to know if the Sony DVD player due in September with HDMI has the same native resolution, 788p as the HS20?? Also, as the Samsung upconverts to 768P, would it really make a difference to 788P?

[WynsWrld98]

Jim Noyd: I've had my eye on the Bravo D3 because I'm after SACD and DVD-Audio as well. Any guess on a release date for that product? I don't want to buy a D2 then shortly after a D3 as well.

[MrBerwell]

Originally posted by TauRus
No, SACD/DVD-A cannot be transmitted over digital coax or optical cables (due to bandwidth limitations).

I don't understand this either.... what about all the pro-audio equipment that transmits 8 discreet channels of 24bit 48k audio down one toslink optical cable? (ADAT/lightpipe)

[Chris Loker]

Wayne,

Information on the Bravo D3 does not show it having SACD/DVD-A support. Have I missed something on that?

[zoro]

Originally posted by Chris Loker
Wayne,

Information on the Bravo D3 does not show it having SACD/DVD-A support. Have I missed something on that?

I was wondering that too?

Well, I would think, sony players will be custom tailored to their own TV's at least.

[blipszyc]

Originally posted by WynsWrld98
[B]blipszyc: the attraction of feeding the Sony HS10/HS20 a 1366 x 768 image (vs. something like a 1280 x 720 image) is the Sony doesn't have to do any scaling so scaling is only done once inside the DVD player vs. in the DVD player from 480 to 720p then in the Sony HS10/HS20 from 720p to 1366 x 768.
I understand the whole scalling vs. non-scalling issue. All I was saying was that if it came down to it, I could pass a 720p signal to the HS20. If I use 1:1 pixel mapping, I can natively display a 720p signal, no double scalling, and have just as good of a picture. I'm also aware that in 1:1 mapping mode, I lose some available resolution and might see blackness around the edges, but that is why I'm mounting in the middle of its range so I can zoom in or out as necessary. This is what I planned on doing anyway, since I didn't want to mess around with the Bravo D1 and its issues and had originally been looking at the Zenith, Toshiba, and Denon players which don't support 1366x768. If the Sammy supports the Sony PJs, than its just icing on the cake.

The new Bravo D2 is available for pre-orders at vinc.com. Has the custom resolution setting built-in and brightness/contrast/color level on DVI but, also has a new loader, power supply, remote control, screen saver and improved analog video output. So if you don't want/need SACD and DVD-Audio you're set with the HS20/10.
This is good news, and I'll wait to see what the AVS jury thinks about the D2. Unfortunately, no SACD or DVD-A is a showstopper. I'd really like to avoid two units and have to explain to the wife, "this DVD in this player and this DVD in this player." I can only program the Pronto to do so much. She'll never understand and then complain that she can't watch her movie or listen to her music. Perhaps the D3 or D4.

[BruceOmega]

Jeff,
Thanks for pointing out the link in Ernie's post ref HDMI to DVI bug.

Ernie,
My mistake for overlooking your link.

It was a long and interesting read, but the bottom line seems to be you can avoid the bug on the 59AVi by avoiding Enhanced mode operation.

Thanks
Bruce

[Iceblade]

No prob, Bruce. Happens to me all the time. I think it's radiation poisoning from my monitor. :)

Later,
Jeff

[PhilB]

Originally posted by MrBerwell
I don't understand this either.... what about all the pro-audio equipment that transmits 8 discreet channels of 24bit 48k audio down one toslink optical cable? (ADAT/lightpipe)

I'm not familiar with those formats, but my guess is that they don't use S/PDIF encoding and thus get better performance. Optical certainly can handle much more bandwidth than PCM 24/96 requires.

-phil

[WynsWrld98]

blipszyc: beware that the zoom on the HS10 (and presumably HS20) keeps the bottom of the image fixed (or for me the top since I have it flipped upside down for a ceiling mount). So when you zoom if you're trying to get rid of the black letterbox on all sides due to running 720p at 1:1 pixel mapping you'll still have a black letterbox on the bottom (or top if ceiling mounted).

The reason I know this is when you feed the HS10/HS20 a 1366x768 image (which I do with the Bravo D1) you still end up with a small black letterbox around the entire image. What I do is have a macro in my Pronto zoom in to get rid of the letterbox on the 3 sides only leaving a very small letterbox on the top (for me). By very small I'm talking maybe 1/2" or 1" tall on my 126" diagonal 16:9 image. There have been many posts about the small black letterbox when the HS10/HS20 is fed a 1366 x 768 image (via Bravo D1 or HTPC) but no one that I've ever heard of found a way of getting around it.

[BHendershot]

I'm considering marrying the Samsung HD-941 with the InFocus SP4805 projector

The 4805 specs. indicate that is does:
- 720p, 1035k(?) and 1080i using "Component and RGB HDTV"
- 480p, 576p(?) using DVI with HDCP
- 480i, 576i using Component, composite or S-video for standard TV

The HD-941 specs:
- Upconverts native DVD 480p to 720p/1080i

Question:

If I connect the HD-941 to the 4805 via DVI, the player can/will upconvert 480p to a higher resolution but the 4805 will down convert it back down to 480p?

[WynsWrld98]

The HD-941 also upconverts to 768p.

In answer to your question, the scaler in your InFocus projector is going to scale the image to whatever pixels it has (which I'm guessing is 576p without knowing anything about your model projector). 576p isn't a standard resolution so I'm guessing it's the native resolution of the projector.

[Jim Noyd]

The 4805 specs. indicate that is does:
- 480p, 576p(?) using DVI with HDCP
____________

The Infocus SP4805 has a native resolution of 854x480. Output 480p DVI and it should like it with out any internal D/A and scaling artifacts.

[[ECGN] Tommy Boy]

so has anyone seen one yet? Have they been released?

[jazzcat]

Originally posted by [ECGN] Tommy Boy
so has anyone seen one yet? Have they been released?

Not yet. I have my pre order in at Amazon.com

Anxiously awaiting...

[[ECGN] Tommy Boy]

still no sightings...and it is not even posted yet at www.samsung.ca (the Canadian site)

[funlvr1965]

The Momitsu v880 seems to have quite a following, my sharp 12k arrived today and Im wondering if I should wait for the bravo d2 or give the Momitsu a try, anyone know when this thing is supposed to actually make an appearance?

[WynsWrld98]

The D2 is available for order on V Inc's website and it is stating there is about a 5 week wait to get one...

[kgoetz97]

Originally posted by jazzcat
Not yet. I have my pre order in at Amazon.com

Anxiously awaiting...

Same here...they are quoting a mid-July ship date but there are several rumors flying around that these machines may be out well before then.
Keep your fingers crossed :)

[BillP]

Originally posted by [ECGN] Tommy Boy
still no sightings...and it is not even posted yet at www.samsung.ca (the Canadian site)

When I preordered my 56" Sammy DLP last August, it didn''t appear on the Samsung US website until 1 week before it was released.

[mallu2u]

Do you guys think that Sammy 941 will be better than Momitsu 880/880N? I am considering the Sammy, Momitsu or the Bravo D2/D3 once all three come with latest updates around July. Although this would make more sense when all three are released, but are there any early impressions based on information already released.

[rwestley]

It is impossive to evaluate the Sammy 941 until it is released and tested.
I hope they have solved the problems the 931 had with black crush and
4.3. So far the Momitsu has the best picture I have ever seen.

[BillP]

Originally posted by mallu2u
Do you guys think that Sammy 941 will be better than Momitsu 880/880N? I am considering the Sammy, Momitsu or the Bravo D2/D3 once all three come with latest updates around July. Although this would make more sense when all three are released, but are there any early impressions based on information already released.

I personally would stay away from Bravo based on all the posts here of them breaking after only a few months. I'm leaning toward the Samsung because of the SACD and DVD-A capabilities. I also prefer to buy from a local store in case of problems (easier to fix/replace). No way to tell which will have the best PQ until they are available.

[santellavision]

So far the Momitsu has the best picture I have ever seen.If you like the Momitsu, you should see the Denon 5900. Another big step up.

[Paul Bigelow]

Is there a website that shows a good, hi-rez picture of the DVD-hd941/841 front and back?

[aghusker]

Originally posted by Paul Bigelow
Is there a website that shows a good, hi-rez picture of the DVD-hd941/841 front and back?

no

[javeryh]

Any word on release?

[zoro]

Well, must be soon, amazon has hiked the price!!

[kgoetz97]

Originally posted by zoro
Well, must be soon, amazon has hiked the price!!

Really...to what?
I'm glad that I pre-ordered:cool:

[Q of BanditZ]

Originally posted by zoro
Well, must be soon, amazon has hiked the price!!

NOOOOOOO!!!!

Why, Amazon, why!!?!?!

I thought Amazon was supposed to be a champion of bargains...


D'oh!

[zoro]

Originally posted by kgoetz97
Really...to what?
I'm glad that I pre-ordered:cool:

$299 a pop!! I didnt check 841 though?

[BillP]

They upped them both. The 941 is now $299 and the 841 $199. That's still $50 below list for both.

[samone]

Funny thing: I just received the BestBuy father's day special 48 page magazine. They are offering the 841 on page 35. Maybe it's a pre-order.

[jazzcat]

Originally posted by BillP
They upped them both. The 941 is now $299 and the 841 $199. That's still $50 below list for both.

If you did a pre order, the price hike is a moot point. Glad I did the pre order! Hope the price going up is a good indication that it will be a keeper.

[zoro]

Check at onecall, pre order from them 841 is 10% off, $179 i think!cheers!

I ordered both, will be keeping, better one!

[btomasie]

wilsons5,
any word yet on your source getting the 941 in yet?

Thanks,
Brian

[mallu2u]

Originally posted by zoro
Check at onecall, pre order from them 841 is 10% off, $179 i think!cheers!

I ordered both, will be keeping, better one!

How is the return policy of onecall? Since u ordered both...one wud go back I am thinking?

[zoro]

Yes!! I was thinking, 841 might show up earlier! than 941 , amazon has very good return policy! while onecall's more stringent terms! check out.
but 841 price is not bad!usually they get stuff earlier!

[Q of BanditZ]

Amazon has about the best return policy you could hope for.

If you keep the box your merchandise comes in, the receipt itself comes with easy instructions that you follow, culminating in a paid for mailing label that you slap on the same box and ship everything back.

[MikeSRC]

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
Amazon has about the best return policy you could hope for.

If you keep the box your merchandise comes in, the receipt itself comes with easy instructions that you follow, culminating in a paid for mailing label that you slap on the same box and ship everything back.

You should know that if the item's not defective or a mistake on Amazon's part, the cost of that return shipping (the mailing label) is deducted from your refund.

[zoro]

Originally posted by MikeSRC
You should know that if the item's not defective or a mistake on Amazon's part, the cost of that return shipping (the mailing label) is deducted from your refund.

But I think, most places do have this kinda policy! any ways! and I find it justified, if not optimum. at least u dont have to give up 15-20%..

[MikeSRC]

I agree. I just was pointing that out because I thought the post made it sound like the return shipping was free (ie: paid-for mailing label).

BTW, I haven't been able to get any info on a shipping date for the new Sammys yet.

[mallu2u]

thanks for the info folks...

[zoro]

Originally posted by MikeSRC
I agree. I just was pointing that out because I thought the post made it sound like the return shipping was free (ie: paid-for mailing label).

BTW, I haven't been able to get any info on a shipping date for the new Sammys yet.

Are u planning carrying them through your web site, like u did 931HD?

What happened to ur monthly NEWS LETTRES!? I really enjoyed them!! THNX

[dlpboy88]

I just ordered the 841 from onecall for a total of $197 shipped. The sales representative told me that the only difference between it and the 941 is the DVI/HDMI outputs (tired subject i know). He said a big reason for the price difference is due towards the cables which are included with the devices. He also said that since I have an HLN507W1 i wouldn't be able to get 1080i but 720p which i thought was weird since the tv says it can output both. Wouldn't you be able to choose between the two?

[MikeSRC]

Originally posted by zoro
Are u planning carrying them through your web site, like u did 931HD?


Yes, but not until I check one out first. I'm not going through the same thing I did with the 931s. :D
First up is the Bravo D2 due in a week.

What happened to ur monthly NEWS LETTRES!? I really enjoyed them!! THNX

I've been too busy to do one since the CES one, but actually, I'm planning one for this weekend.

[mallu2u]

MikeSRC: How can I subscribe to your newsletters?

[crbaldwin]

Is it confirmed that this unit will not be able to transfer the DVD-Audio and SACD signals via HDMI? If not, will it ever be able to with a firmware update?

[BigandLoud1234]

He also said that since I have an HLN507W1 i wouldn't be able to get 1080i but 720p which i thought was weird since the tv says it can output both. Wouldn't you be able to choose between the two?

Your TV has a native(fixed) resolution of 720p. It will accept a 1080i signal, but the internal Faroujda chip in your TV will descale(is that the right term?) to 720p....If you get the 841 just set it up to upconvert to 720P and be done with it.

[blipszyc]

Originally posted by crbaldwin
Is it confirmed that this unit will not be able to transfer the DVD-Audio and SACD signals via HDMI? If not, will it ever be able to with a firmware update?
I don't think any device at this time transfers those formats over HDMI. I think the jury is still out on whether to allow those formats to be transfered digitally over anything "standard."

As for firmware update to allow it, I guess the hardware would need to be in place to merge the audio and video signal onto the HDMI cable. We'll have to wait and see if that's the case on these new players.

[GreggPenn]

The following quote is included with Samsung's product description of the HD941:
...the DVD-HD941 performs its own decoding of both DVD-Audio and SACD signals, passing high-resolution analog, not digital, audio to your integrated amplifier or surround receiver. This means you'll need an audio/video receiver with multichannel analog-audio inputs to appreciate multichannel DVD-A and SACD releases.

A set of stereo and a set of multichannel analog-audio outputs route audio from DVD-A/SACD media as well as from Dolby Digital- and DTS-encoded DVDs to you’re A/V receiver. If you're not planning to use the DVD-A/SACD capability for multichannel programming, both Dolby Digital and DTS 5.1-channel surround-sound signals can be routed through the player's digital-audio outputs (one each of RCA coaxial and Toslink optical) for simpler connection with your receiver...

This is probably a more generalized question (non-specific to the HD941) but here goes.

I was under the impression that a SACD differs from a normal CD in that additional channels are encoded. And, I assumed those extra channels corresponded to the extra channels available in a 5.1 (or higher) receiver vs. a stereo receiver. In other words, center and rear tracks were present.

Is a DVD-A soundtrack include more tracks to get it up to 6.1 or 7.1 from 5.1? If so, I assume that sending the soundtrack through a coaxial digital interconnection will not be a detriment -- since I am only setting up a 5.1 configuration in my theatre.

I am interpreting this release as an indication that 5.1 sound is available through a digital connection but the extra channels (tracks) can only be accessed through the analog outputs of the HD941's internal audio de-coder. Is my perception correct?

Thank you for your help.
gp

[TheDreamer]

I hear its more because RIAA doesn't want people to be able to reproduce DVD-A or SACD easily...so analog output is the only permitted delivery of the sound.

The Dreamer.

[Kaysadea]

Amazon is now specifying an August 2 ship date for the 941.

[That70sGAdawg]

My small dealer in Atlanta that originally said that they would get the 941 in stock in May...still doesn't have a confirmed ship date.

However, this weekends Best Buy flyer (mailed) for Fathers Day gift ideas has the 841 listed for $199.00. But the picture in the Ad is a 931 (Blue ring and all). Guess they couldn't get a product that's not released yet for a photo shoot - But they must be expecting the 841 soon since it's on sale!!!!

[PhilB]

Originally posted by GreggPenn
The following quote is included with Samsung's product description of the HD941:
...the DVD-HD941 performs its own decoding of both DVD-Audio and SACD signals, passing high-resolution analog, not digital, audio to your integrated amplifier or surround receiver. This means you'll need an audio/video receiver with multichannel analog-audio inputs to appreciate multichannel DVD-A and SACD releases.


Where did you find this? It's not in the original press release.

-phil

[Jim Noyd]

Originally posted by GreggPenn
The following quote is included with Samsung's product description of the HD941:
...the DVD-HD941 performs its own decoding of both DVD-Audio and SACD signals, passing high-resolution analog, not digital, audio to your integrated amplifier or surround receiver. This means you'll need an audio/video receiver with multichannel analog-audio inputs to appreciate multichannel DVD-A and SACD releases.

A set of stereo and a set of multichannel analog-audio outputs route audio from DVD-A/SACD media as well as from Dolby Digital- and DTS-encoded DVDs to you’re A/V receiver. If you're not planning to use the DVD-A/SACD capability for multichannel programming, both Dolby Digital and DTS 5.1-channel surround-sound signals can be routed through the player's digital-audio outputs (one each of RCA coaxial and Toslink optical) for simpler connection with your receiver...

This is probably a more generalized question (non-specific to the HD941) but here goes.

I was under the impression that a SACD differs from a normal CD in that additional channels are encoded. And, I assumed those extra channels corresponded to the extra channels available in a 5.1 (or higher) receiver vs. a stereo receiver. In other words, center and rear tracks were present.

Is a DVD-A soundtrack include more tracks to get it up to 6.1 or 7.1 from 5.1? If so, I assume that sending the soundtrack through a coaxial digital interconnection will not be a detriment -- since I am only setting up a 5.1 configuration in my theatre.

I am interpreting this release as an indication that 5.1 sound is available through a digital connection but the extra channels (tracks) can only be accessed through the analog outputs of the HD941's internal audio de-coder. Is my perception correct?

Thank you for your help.
gp Here's a basic explanation. The advantage of these formats is not only multi-channel implementation but increased data rates or higher resolution audio playback. But this high rate data has been limited to an analog ouput for copy protection of the digital data in this pure form. Currently, there are only a couple of brands that have the rights to ouput them on a proprietary digital connection.

So, the Samsung statements are true, you'll need a receiver or preamp with multi-channel analog input to be able to playback the higher bit rate content from their player.

[blipszyc]

For now, most SACD and DVD-A players decode the disc from its either 2 channel (SACD) or 5.1 channel (SACD & DVD-A) mixes and output them over 6 RCA analog cables to your reciever, which then amplifies them and sends the signal to your speakers. Physcally, the signal can be sent digitally as one stream either through HDMI, Optical, Coax, or Firewire (DenonLink too). If you were to transfer it digitally, the reciever would have to do the decoding. Unfortuantely, the copy protection folks don't want a digital signal being sent out without some sort of gurantee it won't be duplicated. This is why the proprietary digital or analog connections have been approved.

[George Montemayor]

Originally posted by Jim Noyd
Currently, there are only a couple of brands that have the rights to ouput them on a proprietary digital connection.
What brands possess these rights? I'm interested in researching more about them. Thanks.

[Jim Noyd]

Originally posted by George Montemayor
What brands possess these rights? I'm interested in researching more about them. Thanks. Try posting this question in the Audio processor section. Denon, Pioneer and of course Meridian who developed MLP for DVD-Audio.

[shugazer9]

Does the Samsung 941 control the levels and volume of the analog multichannel from the remote? The reason I ask is that I have 5 Marantz monoblock amps and dont want to buy a new Pre-pro just to get the SACD & DVD-A. If this player plays nice with my Sony HS10 it sounds like a winner!

[Huskerfan]

Originally posted by That70sGAdawg
My small dealer in Atlanta that originally said that they would get the 941 in stock in May...still doesn't have a confirmed ship date.

However, this weekends Best Buy flyer (mailed) for Fathers Day gift ideas has the 841 listed for $199.00. But the picture in the Ad is a 931 (Blue ring and all). Guess they couldn't get a product that's not released yet for a photo shoot - But they must be expecting the 841 soon since it's on sale!!!!

I saw this same ad. So I called my local Bestbuy and the kid had no idea on the ship date. He said the ship date was 5/23, but they didn't have any in stock. He didn't have a clue after that. He said to keep checking back with them. Right! Glad I preordered mine for $169 at Amazon.

[Huskerfan]

Holy s--t. What am I doing up so late.........

[bonedoc2be]

just an update on amazon. they currently list the shipping estimate on my preorder at july 30 - aug 2! Hopefully that is conservative and it will go sooner....

[RMSko]

Am I right that the 941 definitely allows discrete ir codes?

[BigandLoud1234]

Am I right that the 941 definitely allows discrete ir codes?

Yes, then again, till one of us actually gets one, we cannot say definately

[kgoetz97]

Originally posted by bonedoc2be
just an update on amazon. they currently list the shipping estimate on my preorder at july 30 - aug 2! Hopefully that is conservative and it will go sooner....

Well that is later than I was quoted (July 20 or so) when I ordered about a week ago. Did you just place your order?

[ricksm3]

I ordered the 941 a couple weeks ago and Amazon still lists me as between July 12 and July 16. I'm not sure this means a whole lot, though.

[bonedoc2be]

Originally posted by kgoetz97
Well that is later than I was quoted (July 20 or so) when I ordered about a week ago. Did you just place your order?

no, i preordered about 10 days ago

[maxvengeance111]

Well, went to my West Hollywood location...they have the 841, and it doesn't have DCDi. Now my question is this....If I have a Samsung DLP with DCDi then does it really matter if the 841 has it or not? Vinc doesnt have DCDi and people think the pic looks great...I just don't know anything about it.

[jazzcat]

I pre-ordered about 3 weeks ago and quoting Amazon:

Items not yet shipped:
Delivery estimate: Jul 21, 2004 - Jul 23, 2004 1 of Samsung DVD-HD941 HDTV-Compatible Upconverter DVD Player with DCDi

[BillP]

Originally posted by maxvengeance111
Well, went to my West Hollywood location...they have the 841, and it doesn't have DCDi. Now my question is this....If I have a Samsung DLP with DCDi then does it really matter if the 841 has it or not? Vinc doesnt have DCDi and people think the pic looks great...I just don't know anything about it.

You are the 1st to actually see the 841. Could you confirm that it does not have the Faroudja/DCMI chip? Since the chip is involved in the upscaling process, the quality of the PQ over DVI, scaled up to 720p or 1080i, depends on the quality of the chip. There are other good chips, but people consider Faroudja one of the best. That explains the $100 price difference between the 841 and the 941 (a cheaper chip inthe 841). Whether you can actually see a noticeable difference between the 2 models will have to wait until someone can do an A/B comparison. But now I'm glad I preordered the 941, which does have the Faroudja chip (I was having 2nd thoughts due to some thinking the 841 might have it also, based on some pictures on the web).

[Huskerfan]

Sure it wasn't the 831?

[maxvengeance111]

I purchased it...I am in the process of hooking it up...and it has no DCDi logo on it so I guess it doesn't have it. But either does the Vinc model so I am not sure if it means that much...I will see what happens when I try it out and post.