Pioneer DV-578A

[cburbs]

Anyone seen this or read anything else on this?

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/press/release/detail/0,,2076_4313_95269012,00.html

[jerndl]

It appears to be a newer version of the DV-563A. Maybe they fixed the bass managerment.

Jay

[ninjanki]

I´ve looked at it, and one difference from the older 563 is the video DAC. It seems that the 578 has a 106Mhz, 12 bit DAC. It should help with video detail stability. I hope they also did some upgrading on the SACD/DVD-A performance.

Allan

[zoro]

Way to go Pioneer 1 no HDMI though!! Any availability?

[cburbs]

I sent them an email today. Still waiting to hear on this.

[zoro]

keep us posted!

[Yung]

I stopped by my local BB yesterday. They had the Pioneer DV-563A on clearance for $139.99 with a couple of open box items for $129.99. I asked the BB rep when they would be getting the new Pioneer DVD players. He wasn't sure at first, but said since the 563A was on closeout that they should be getting it soon. He went to check on the store's inventory system after I told him the model number DV-578A-S. The new model was in the system!

The price on the new model will be $149.99. I am not sure if that is the sale price or MSRP, but he said the price will be $149.99 when it comes out. The store will be getting 3 in stock on Monday 6/14/04.

Even though Pioneer has a good reputation, I am going to wait until a couple of reviews come out before I buy.

[bruman]

I got my 563A open box for $70 at CC. didnt even look like it was used, batteries were still sealed. that was 6 months ago and still works great. cant beat the price! asked why it was so cheap even though it was open box ? salesman told me the new manager hates open box stuff and marks it way down to get it off the shelves.

[Q of BanditZ]

I am VERY eager to learn as much about this new unit as possible. Especially the audio capabilities.

[MisterPib]

I'm also very eager to read some reviews of the 578.

Crutchfield shows them in stock, for $150. The pictures are all of the 563, though, and the specs are mostly blank. The 563 has been reduced to $130.

[Wunderchu]

http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/viewtopic.php?p=93851#93851&sid=baf305dffdcdb92479b6b732f0825ea4

[Q of BanditZ]

A pity there's no official reviews yet. All we have is a link to another opinion user forum. Oh well, that's a start at least.

There's a few points they make I'd like to highlight:

The BAD news: It is much cheaper than 563A.

That's terrible news. I guess we can expect glitches like the DVD-A issues to remain and maybe some new problems. I really was hoping this would be a step up in all levels.

The last bad/good news is that DV578A converts SACD (DSD) to 88.2 PCM at all times.

That's bad news, but I guess at this price level, that's about all we can expect.

I would say the new 568A High-Res transport will be available in a couple of months from now, if not sooner. The target price is around $600 including the machine, free shipping and 1 year warranty.

Sounds like, but sounds like I'll be going to a different company for my audio needs. It's a pity that I can't get the job right without spending AT LEAST $500 or more. 1 year warranty doesn't blow me away either.

Botton line: Run for the 563a while you can, or wait for something better, if you have the budget. The 563a still stands, arguably, as the best all in one audio solution at budget prices.

Oh, I SO wish the Zenith DVB318's original plans to be a universal player had held...

[TauRus]

I am a little confused: judging by these few first reports the new 587A has cheaper audio DACs, cheaper PSU, but more advanced video DACs (that I saw in the specs). So, where is the logic? Is this an idea of cost cutting? Or are the reports faulty?

[UUronl]

I agree that this "cheaper-lighter-cheaper" trend is horrid. I'd easily spend $750 on a player that performed solidly in all the requisite areas. The Denon 2900 is tempting even at $999, but for that much it had better not have -any- problems. How is it possible that every manufacturer seems incapable of producing a player that actually works the way it is supposed to?


Ron

[BradJudy]

It would be good to know if they did improve the bass management. That might make it worthwhile for me.

[Q of BanditZ]

Originally posted by BradJudy
It would be good to know if they did improve the bass management. That might make it worthwhile for me.

That's about the only redeeming hope left, othersie, you can see what's at the head of this post...

[rickardl]

As it looks, DV-578A seems to be the equivalent of the European DV-575A
with some noticeable exceptions, the DV-575A has Progressive Scan
for both NTSC and PAL and it also plays DivX...
See link for specs:
http://www.pioneer.co.uk/uk/product_detail.jsp?product_id=8533&taxonomy_id=62-84

[Wesley Hester]

Thanks rickardl. The DV-575A is the best player at this price range in my opinion. I like it better than the DV-578A already.

It should work in the US ok right?

I'll do a search and see if I can get one at a reasonable price after the DV-578A is released here and its true features known.

P.S. I noted the "Full Speaker (Bass) Management & delay adjustment" listing under features too!

[Q of BanditZ]

I'd seriously consider getting the 563a on clearance instead of importing some player overseas.

[rickardl]

Wesley, it will work fine if you find an adapter that delivers AC 220–240 V, 50/60 Hz.
If I read the manual correctly, it produces PAL output for PAL DVDs OR
converts PAL DVDs to NTSC depending on your setting.
of course, it delivers NTSC from NTSC DVDs or converts them to PAL
if that would be your choice :-)

Edit: I forgot to say that you would need a regionfree one
in order to play R1 discs.

[mrtanner]

Has anyone done a comparison between the 563 and Toshiba SD-6915 5-disk universal changer? ($179 at BB)

[Kris Deering]

I am currently reviewing the new Toshiba multi changer universal. It will be in next months benchmark along with about 13 other <$300 players!! You guys have been harping for me to do a budget based shootout, well I bought about 16 players since yesterday.

The benchmark that goes up next week will have the new Cyberhome $40 DVD player as well as the Samsung 841.

[jerndl]

Originally posted by Kris Deering
I am currently reviewing the new Toshiba multi changer universal. It will be in next months benchmark along with about 13 other <$300 players!! You guys have been harping for me to do a budget based shootout, well I bought about 16 players since yesterday. Will there be any DVD recorders included in the next report? I am interested in buying a DVD recorder and am curious to know how they compare (for playback purposes) to the better low and mid price DVD players. Thanks.

Jay

[rodeoclown]

"I am currently reviewing the new Toshiba multi changer universal. It will be in next months benchmark along with about 13 other <$300 players!! You guys have been harping for me to do a budget based shootout, well I bought about 16 players since yesterday."

AWESOME!!!

thank you thank you thank you thank you

[Kris Deering]

Originally posted by jerndl
Will there be any DVD recorders included in the next report? I am interested in buying a DVD recorder and am curious to know how they compare (for playback purposes) to the better low and mid price DVD players. Thanks.

Jay

There is only one DVD recorder in the mix, the Liteon. I only have so much money plus I was trying to keep the players MSRP under $300. There are two that are over $200, the rest came in under $100!!! If I see more over the next few weeks I may get a few more. I just bought 2 more at lunch. I am going to try and make it to two more shops over by Seattle that may have some as well, including Fry's which I believe has the Toshiba with the HDMI out on it.

[driggity]

Has anyone compared the 563a and 578a in terms of audio and video quality? Both are available locally and I was wondering which would be better to get. Also, about how long does it take to get the new firmware installed in the 563a (to correct the DVD-A problems). I'm trying to figure out if it would be worth it to grab a cheap floor model 563a and send it in to a service center for the new firmware.

Thanks.

[Kris Deering]

I haven't seen a 578a but if I do I will be sure to pick it up for the upcoming test.

[Wesley Hester]

The 578A is available online from Crutchfield now. The features list shows "DIGITAL Bass Management, Speaker Size and Distance" and makes no reference to ANALOG Bass Management. Guess I'll have to keep my Outlaw ICBM hooked up for a while longer after all.
P.S. The photos do not show the WMA logo on the front like previous pictures of the 578A I've seen on the web but it still shows that it supports the format in the features list.

[Ovation]

Originally posted by Wesley Hester
The 578A is available online from Crutchfield now. The features list shows "DIGITAL Bass Management, Speaker Size and Distance" and makes no reference to ANALOG Bass Management. Guess I'll have to keep my Outlaw ICBM hooked up for a while longer after all.
P.S. The photos do not show the WMA logo on the front like previous pictures of the 578A I've seen on the web but it still shows that it supports the format in the features list.

Almost any player that performs Bass Management internally does so "digitally". Analogue BM, applied after the D/A conversion in the player, is mainly desirable to avoid an additional layer of A/D/A, not because digital is inherently bad. Everyone wants their player to have a hi-res digital link to the receiver for bass management performance, which, for those cases where it is happening (Pioneer Elites, Denon, and a few others) is digital.

[rickardl]

Wesley, the photos at Crutchfield actually shows the DV-563A... :-)

[driggity]

Originally posted by Kris Deering
I haven't seen a 578a but if I do I will be sure to pick it up for the upcoming test.

The Southcenter best Buy has some of the 578a in stock. I'm not sure if any of the Best Buys closer to you have them. Are you planning on testing DVD-A and SACD performance in your comparison? Also, any idea on when the results will be available?

Thanks

[Kris Deering]

Thanks Driggity

I am planning on swinging through Southcenter since they have a Video Only and Good Guys which can't be found on the peninsula.

I may comment on technical aspects of the universal players (i.e. whether they have bass management and what crossover etc.).

The results should be published around the beginning of July. I have a lot of players to go through so it will take some time.

[Paul Bigelow]

Hello Kris,

Please try the Terapin TT-1800 if the Seattle Fry's has it. It's on sale ($30, I think). I suspect it may do quite well (for a cheapie).

Thanks for all the great work.

Paul Bigelow

[Kris Deering]

I will pick it up if they have it Paul.

Also, anyone in the Seattle or NW area that would be interested in seeing exactly what takes place in our benchmark is welcome to come by and see how the tests are done and what I look for. Just shoot me a PM if you are interested in checking it out.

[Paul Bigelow]

Thank you Kris,

The next "shootout" looks to very interesting, indeed!

[dpwicz]

I just picked up a 578, and I am having problems using it with my Pronto (TSU-3000), anyone else having this problem.

Wesley, I haven't tried but the manual does say that it plays WMA.

According to the manual the player only down-samples when you use the digital outputs, but not the analog.

[zoro]

dp, does it look like 563sa or any different?

[dpwicz]

zoro, it looks just like the 563sa

[Kris Deering]

Got the 578A today, should be putting it through the ringer tomorrow!!!

[Sam S]

Originally posted by Kris Deering
Got the 578A today, should be putting it through the ringer tomorrow!!!

COOL! Kris, can you at least give us a headsup tomorrow if it does anything drastically wrong or different from the 563A?

[MisterPib]

Originally posted by Sam Scamardo
COOL! Kris, can you at least give us a headsup tomorrow if it does anything drastically wrong or different from the 563A?
Yes, please do. The 563a is getting hard to find. Crutchfield is out of them already. But I've only read one brief report (linked to from this thread) about the 578a.

Thanks very much in advance!

[rickardl]

Yes, please do 2!
I am very curious how the new 108MHz/12-bit video DAC stacks up!

[Q of BanditZ]

When all's said and done, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the 563 is still a better player than this new one...

[Kris Deering]

If I find any glaring issues I will report them, but I mean to include it in the benchmark that will go live next week, so no long wait there.

[zoro]

Fantastic!! Kris!! How would u compare 480p vs 720p, 1080i via component to one of ur best players e.g DENON 5900 etc!??

[Kris Deering]

The Pioneer doesn't do upconversion so that is not an issue.

As for the benchmark of the 578, there will be some good news and bad news next week, but I think most will find it VERY interesting!!

[zoro]

i am sorry!! i meant was 318, by Zenith!

I am having issues of COLOR BANDINg, GREEN YELLOW etc on 1080i, via component !! Otherwise PQ is pretty good at 1080i via component!

[BradJudy]

Originally posted by Kris Deering

As for the benchmark of the 578, there will be some good news and bad news next week, but I think most will find it VERY interesting!!

Such a tease!

[rickardl]

Let me guess: the layer shift is blindingly fast?

[MisterPib]

Originally posted by Kris Deering
As for the benchmark of the 578, there will be some good news and bad news next week, but I think most will find it VERY interesting!!

Could I trouble you for an "executive summary" of the 578a vs. the 563a? My local CompUSA has one 563a left, and I'm not sure if I should grab it or wait for a 578a. I'd just buy the damn thing, with the option to return it later, if it wasn't for the obnoxious 15% restocking fee.

[rickardl]

For what it is worth,
looking at the specs for the US and European DV-563A:
S/N: 118 dB
Dynamic range: 108 dB
THD: 0.0014%

And for the Japaneese DV-578A and the equivalent European DV-575A:
S/N: 115dB
Dynamic range 101dB
THD 0.0020%

So 1-0 for DV-563A on Audio specs,
but I guess that the DV-578A/DV-575A has better video performance.

[Diode1]

Kris or anyone with the new 578a?
How is it in comparison to the 563a? I purchased a new 563A last weekend
at of all places a pawnshop for $95 out the door, it was new and was just
placed on the shelf for-sale. I only have until Saturday to make up my mind to keep it or return for cash "7-day cash back"
It seems locally the 563A is getting hard to find, I'd hate to rid this one and only kick myself later. Kris please feel free to even pm me if your inclined to share some preliminary opinions. ;)
-Jerry

[Kris Deering]

Audio wise there doesn't seem to be much different. It is a decent entry audio player for universals, but very limited like the 563 was.

This player uses an entirely new MPEG decoder then the 563. They both have shortcomings but I think the new player will bring a bit more to the table. That is all I can really say before the benchmark goes live next week.

[CKNA]

Originally posted by rickardl
For what it is worth,
looking at the specs for the US and European DV-563A:
S/N: 118 dB
Dynamic range: 108 dB
THD: 0.0014%

And for the Japaneese DV-578A and the equivalent European DV-575A:
S/N: 115dB
Dynamic range 101dB
THD 0.0020%

So 1-0 for DV-563A on Audio specs,
but I guess that the DV-578A/DV-575A has better video performance.


All I can say is that US 578 is not the same as Euro 575. US 578 looks almost exactly like 563. 575 looks a lot different.

[MisterPib]

Originally posted by Kris Deering
Audio wise there doesn't seem to be much different. It is a decent entry audio player for universals, but very limited like the 563 was.

This player uses an entirely new MPEG decoder then the 563. They both have shortcomings but I think the new player will bring a bit more to the table.
That should tide me over until the benchmarks. Thanks!!

[Diode1]

Kris,
Thank you.

[Doriginal]

I just took the 578 home yesterday...the last one at bestbuy. I had returned my 563 to crutchfield after being somewhat unhappy with the video quality. I have to say that the 578 actually looks better (on my direct view RCA 38' widescreen) Maybe its a new MPEG decoder or the 12bit/108Mhz, but the picture definitley looks cleaner. Matrix was less grainy and LOTR was pristine. Superbit DVD's looked good as usual.

I plan to return it within 30 days so that I can get it cheaper somewhere else if I decide to keep it. I want to try out the new Zenith DVB318 and compare the two. If the Pioneer 578 beats out the Zenith 318 (for video quality in "my opinion") I will probably just keep my pre-order for the Yamaha S1500 which is also 12bit/108mhz, but with DCDi and better Sound.

[ralphmoe33]

I have both the 563 and the 578 here. I have worked as a video test tech for over 26 years for a company that makes broadcast video switchers, digital video
manipulators, etc. I have to agree with Doriginal, the video on the 578 definately is a lot cleaner and sharper, with better color saturation. As for the audio, which I am a noob at, DVD-A is slightly better sounding on the 563, I can't put my finger on it, I am a guitar player too and the bass lines on the Diana Krall Love Scenes sound a tad more woody or organic. That's the only way I can think to descibe them. Her piano sounds a but more "present" to me too. The vocals are the same to my ears. I do not have an SACD yet. Regular CD's are the same.

My 2 cents, for what it worth (maybe a penny?)
;-)

[rickardl]

Anyone with a DV-578A who dares to open it up and check the chipset?
I have a hunch it has a Mediatek 1389EE which has a new progressive
scan algorithm: MDDi (Media Direct De-Interlacing).

[Charles Hansen]

That is correct.

[rickardl]

Very interesting! This is from MediaTek's press release of MT1389:

This new chip contains the newly developed, patent-pending, progressive scan algorithm:
MDDi™ (Media Direct De-Interlacing) technology that delivers superior video quality to the
end users. The MDDi™ technology utilizes an intelligent link between MPEG decoder and
embedded progressive scan processor. It can reproduce the most accurate pictures from
DVD movie discs. DVD players that contain the MDDi™ technology can be identified from
the MDDi™ logo on the product. This IC integrates six advanced 12-bit, 108MHz video DAC
(Digital-to-Analog Converter) and provided the end users a very high video quality that can
only be seen from the high-end DVD players nowadays.
MT1389 is the world first RF-integrated DVD SoC that supports playback of DivX Pro™
MPEG4 video. This chip supports playback of DivX® video including version V3.11, V4.x and
V5.x. In addition to being certified Home Theater Profile by DivXNetworks, Inc., MT1389
supports advanced features like GMC (Global Motion Compensation, one-point), Q-pel and
post-processing from the DivX Pro™ codec, which makes MT1389 the powerful DVD SoC
that support various kind of MPEG4 profiles and video files. The MT1389 is also capable of
latest DivX® DRM (Digital Right Management) system that enabling the on-line movie
purchase in the future.

Note: this is the same chip that is in the European DV-575A.

[MandM]

Hi all. Just received an email reply from Pioneer Canada regarding bass management on the 578A :


Mike,
The DV-578A-S is ONLY available in silver and the cross-over point for SACD is set at 80Hz (no bass management is available on SACD in accordance with the "red book" specifications) and for DVD-Audio, it can be set to either 80 Hz (large front speakers) or 120Hz (small front speakers).

Regards,

Roger R. Archambault
Senior Product Specialist
Pioneer Electronics of Canada, Inc.
300 Allstate Parkway
Markham, ON
L3R 0P2
Customer Satisfaction
Pioneer Electronics of Canada
300 Allstate Parkway
Markham Ontario L3R 0P2
Toll free: 1 (877) 283 5901
Fax: 1 (877) 746 4848

Sounds like I'll have to give one a spin!!

Mike

[spydermonkey311]

I currently have a Pionner DVD-333. Its pretty old, but it is a kick ass dvd player. Can someone tell me what makes the DVD-333 so fast at loading disc and changing menus? All of my friends and familys dvd players arent as fast, even the newer ones.

Even though I dont have any trouble with my DVD-333, im looking for a new dvd player that plays super audio cds, DIVX, mp3s, and jpegs. I want to make sure I get one that loads fast, like my DVD-333.

[BradJudy]

MandM:

Great news. After seeing the shootout feedback I think I may be grabbing a 578 and selling my 563 (any takers?). :)

Edit: Hopefully the shootout tests layer change speed.

[Kris Deering]

Oh it tests it alright.

The player does use the Mediateck chip. In fact, when the next benchmark after this weeks comes out, you'll see A LOT of players that use the Mediatech chip. I went out and bought about 20 players this last week to test that are under $200. A good majority of them used this solution. The bad part is, each of them was dialed in differently in terms of de-interlacing, including the 578. If a company was so inclined, this could be tweaked in to be quite a good de-interlacer, but it seems that it is hit or miss with its implementation.

[rickardl]

Kris, another (cheaper) Pioneer model in Europe, DV-370, is
using MediaTek MT1379EE and MT1336F, have you encountered
those in your budget players?
It has only a 54MHz/12-bit Video DAC but apparently does well
picturewise.

[Kris Deering]

Yes, I have seen a variety of the Mediatech offerings. They all pretty much perform the same, again it is more a matter of how much they are tweaked in. Interesting thing is they all have the chroma issues associated with them, but when in progressive mode they mask the CUE problems similar to the Faroudja, with the exception of the ICP but it is one of the best chips I have seen with that, right up there with the Mediamatics and Sigma.

[zoro]

How this DE INTERLACER compares to DCDI handling VIDEO BASED MATERIAL?

[Kris Deering]

It doesn't have the same filtering, so it doesn't look as smooth.

[zoro]

indeed, i saw 563sa, does not comb, but flickers a lot..is 578 any better?

[Alaska Wolf]

Does anyone have an idea if this player will accept the very soon (I hope)to be released dual layer media DVD+R's? I have a NEC 2510A burner . This will be my first DVD player. I would have gotten one earlier but it took longer than I expected to sell my Buggy Whip collection.


Wolf

[trancedigital]

I just got the Pioneer 578A

DVD-A/SACD: I have not played any DVD-A or SACD so far. Everyone knows that you dont get pure SACD sound from this player. DSD is converted to PCM because there is only one processing chip instead of two. What can you expect for $141 though?

DVD-Video: Sound clarity is superb with this player hooked up to the Onkyo HT-S770 home theater system. I watched Kill Bill 1 and was blown away by the surround sound. Picture quality via 'interlacing' is good. I don't have a digital TV yet so could not use the progressive scan option. I didn't encounter any skipping/stuttering of the DVD-video. I have to say that the unit is very light and looks cheap...but sounds quite good.

Disc Compatibility: I burned a DVD on Khypermedia 4x DVD-R and Memorex DVD+RW. The Pioneer plays both discs perfectly.

Remote: Remote has "fast scan" only upto 4x which in my opinion is not much.

Speaker Management for DVD-A/SACD: You can select the speaker size and speaker distance when using the 5.1 channel analog outputs. Except for the subwoofer, you can set speaker size to 'large' or 'small'. Speaker distance can be set as follows:
* Front left/right speaker distance can be set from 1 ft. to 30 ft. in 1 ft. increments.
* The center speaker can be set from -7 ft. to 0 ft. relative to the front left/right speakers.
* Surround left/right speakers can be set from -20 ft. to 0 ft. relative to the front left/right speakers.
* You can't set the subwoofer distance.

One point to note is that any change in speaker size/distance for 5.1 multichannel analog outputs will not affect sound from digital output (optical or coaxial).

Bass Management: WHERE IS IT?? :(

MP3: Browsing MP3 files literally sucks with this player. At any given time only six songs are shown on the menu. There is no numbering on the list of songs. So if you have 100 songs on one disc and you want to listen to song #85, then you will have to scroll down one by one till you get to that song. One cannot just press the buttons 8 & 5 on the remote to get to that song (My old DVD player -Daewoo has this function). Scrolling down is not that fast. No support for long file names or random play. The manual specifically mentions that one cannot program or play MP3/WMA discs at random. File/Folder title support is upto 14 characters including spaces. For example:
"DJ Tiesto - Live in Amsterdam" will show as:
"DJ Tiesto - Li"
Having said this, most of the above functions can be done with DVD-video, DVD-A and SACD. WHY NOT MP3 or WMA??? :mad:

[Billped]

Originally posted by trancedigital
Except for the subwoofer, you can set speaker size to 'large' or 'small'.

Bass Management: WHERE IS IT?? :(


Great review. Thanks for taking the time to write it up.

From an earlier post (7-8 above yours), setting the speaker size *is* bass management.


Bill

[rickardl]

the cross-over point for SACD is set at 80Hz (no bass management is available on SACD in accordance with the "red book" specifications) and for DVD-Audio, it can be set to either 80 Hz (large front speakers) or 120Hz (small front speakers).

I take it, that if you set Subwoofer (SW) to OFF, there will be
no crossover at all?

[Azanon]

I have the Pioneer DV-578-A. Ok cept for one problem i've noticed; On Faith Hill's DVD-A, if you let it completely play a track, the next song sounds like garble. However, if you backarrow it to the start of the same track, it starts over, but sounds fine. It does this for all songs on the DVD-A.

Unfortunately, its the only DVD-A i have right now so i dont have another to test. The two SACD's i own dont seem to have this problem.

Hopefully its just a problem with the faith hill cd, and not the player.

Azanon

[BradJudy]

Kris,

Are the new test results up? I didn't see them on the website.

[TheOski]

The biggest problem I have with 563a is that its video stability is so so, if a dvd is encoded with incorrent progressive flags it focuses in and out and that pal dvds do the shaking thing. If 578a can fix these problems I will be a happy camper. Especially that I watch tons of European movies and I always had to watch them on my trusty Apex 1500.

On the other hand, Zenith DVB318 looks interesting. I have 32hs510 but I am not sure if DVI and upconversion to 1080i are worth trying. Any ideas?

[rickardl]

Anyone with a DV-578A who wants to try to play a divx file?
I know it isn't in the specs but the European DV-575A was released
at the same time and it has the same MediaTek chip and
almost identical specs and functionality except the divx capability.
It plays DivX 5, DivX 4, DivX3 and DivXvVOD video content on
CD-Rs and maybe also on DVD-Rs.

[thomas_brewster]

I just got my 578A last night, any idea where I can get some test DivX videos as burnable CD images to test out the player ?

[TheOski]

Just make one divx yourself

[TheOski]

Originally posted by Doriginal
I just took the 578 home yesterday...the last one at bestbuy. I had returned my 563 to crutchfield after being somewhat unhappy with the video quality. I have to say that the 578 actually looks better (on my direct view RCA 38' widescreen) Maybe its a new MPEG decoder or the 12bit/108Mhz, but the picture definitley looks cleaner. Matrix was less grainy and LOTR was pristine. Superbit DVD's looked good as usual.

I plan to return it within 30 days so that I can get it cheaper somewhere else if I decide to keep it. I want to try out the new Zenith DVB318 and compare the two. If the Pioneer 578 beats out the Zenith 318 (for video quality in "my opinion") I will probably just keep my pre-order for the Yamaha S1500 which is also 12bit/108mhz, but with DCDi and better Sound.

Any luck comparing 578 to Zenith 318?

[rickardl]

thomas_brewster, try http://www.edgefiles.com/download/dl5.edgefiles.com/warcraftgaming.com/www/official/Ghost_Gameplay_E3_2003_PC.avi

it is a divx5 trailer for a PC game...
It is about 7MB, burn it on a CD-RW/CD-R, that should do it.

[Q of BanditZ]

Audio quality, how's this compare to the 563?

[thomas_brewster]

Originally posted by rickardl
thomas_brewster, try ...

it is a divx5 trailer for a PC game...
It is about 7MB, burn it on a CD-RW/CD-R, that should do it.

No luck getting the DivX Movies to Play, I burned a CD-RW with a few MP3s as well as the above DivX movie (twice, once with .avi extention and the other time with .divx extention)

The MP3s Played, but I can't say I like the the look of the "Data Disc" interface.
The DivX movies did not show up at all.

I played with a SACD sampler disc that I had. After a bit of tweaking in the DVD setup options, I got it to play properly. The Herbie Hancock - Watermelon Man 5.1 Mix was awesome, as was the Elton John - Goodbye Yellow Brick Road.

[W4ZOO]

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=118

[jpco]

I purchased this player last Saturday and have watched a few movies and some video-based material. No visible problems with interlacing so far. Nice picture. Calibrating the blacks has been a bit challenging, but I think I've got it now.

The most impressive feature for me is the navigation speed. I didn't realize how much I would enjoy a player that was this responsive (almost instant). Also, I haven't seen a layer change delay.

All in all, this player seems to be a great value. Of course it's only been a few days, so things could change.

[rickardl]

jpco, regarding black level calibration; the secrets benchmarks states
that the player does not pass below black signals but could that
be overcome by adjusting Gamma, Brightness and/or Contrast
on the player?

Also, I have read elsewhere that the layer change is virtually unnoticeable
which seems to be everybody's opinion so far.

[zoro]

I dont think 563sa support any settings, dont know abt 578?

[Q of BanditZ]

I find myself in an interesting quandry gentlemen. On one hand, I have this consideration: "Don't buy another DVD player of any kind until HD-DVD/BlueRay/whatever settles in." Ok, fair enough. That's in a few years...

I kind of don't want to wait that long to start enjoying SACD and DVD-A. I am satisifed with the Zenith DVB318 for my movie watching. I have a 32 inch Zenith HD tube, so I don't see much point in spending big time money for a DVD player past that for visuals. That TV is only going to go so far anyways.

What I would like is to have a nice all in one audio solution, relatively inexpensive, but something that has all the right specs.

I was hoping maybe the Yamaha s1500 might be that audio solution. I'd like to do it under $500 ideally.

[zoro]

buy a 2200 Denon at ecost for $287???

[Q of BanditZ]

I am considering that, or even the 2900, actually... ;)

[Billped]

Originally posted by zoro
buy a 2200 Denon at ecost for $287???

That deal ended a few weeks ago.


Bill

[Billped]

Originally posted by Billped
That deal ended a few weeks ago.


Bill

DOH! I've been checking every day and they were out. They seem to have them back in stock so I just ordered one. Since a used unit sells for than that on e-b-a-y, I figure I'm safe.


Bill

[SoundMeister]

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
I'd like to do it under $500 ideally.

As of 06/30/04 Ecost has the 2900 in silver for $499 and the black one for $549.

[Chuck Mullen]

I'm looking to get an entry level universal player and this unit seems like a pretty good deal. I have an Onkyo DV-CP701 that I will use for movies as I am very satisfied with the PQ, so the 578 will be for audio only. It doesn't seem like a universal player that upconverts over component or has DcDI over component is in the cards, so I will go with a two DVD player setup for now. (Don't have $ in the budget for more than $200 or so.)
Any thoughts about a 578 as a music only entry level uni player?

[Ovation]

If you're dipping your toe in the waters, so to speak, then this should do you fine. If I remember its specs correctly, this player's xover setting when set to small should be especially compatible with sat/sub systems, so if that's what you have speaker-wise, you should be okay. At any rate, at your budget price, there is no serious alternative at this time.

[BradJudy]

I sent an inquiry to Pioneer US about the 578 and it's crossover points a week or so ago. Today they wrote back saying they don't have specs on the 578 yet and that I should ask again in two weeks. Odd considering Pioneer Canada responded to someone else here with details.

[spydermonkey311]

Originally posted by spydermonkey311
I currently have a Pionner DVD-333. Its pretty old, but it is a kick ass dvd player. Can someone tell me what makes the DVD-333 so fast at loading disc and changing menus? All of my friends and familys dvd players arent as fast, even the newer ones.

Even though I dont have any trouble with my DVD-333, im looking for a new dvd player that plays super audio cds, DIVX, mp3s, and jpegs. I want to make sure I get one that loads fast, like my DVD-333.

Can anyone comment on my post?

[jpco]

I'll comment by saying the 578a is the quickest navigating player I've ever used. Don't know why your old player or this one is fast.

[Chuck Mullen]

I sent an inquiry to Pioneer US about the 578 and it's crossover points a week or so ago. Today they wrote back saying they don't have specs on the 578 yet and that I should ask again in two weeks. Odd considering Pioneer Canada responded to someone else here with details.
I wonder why the crossover points on these things are always shrouded in mystery. No one seems to be able to confirm the X-over points for the new Sammys either. Would it be so hard for manufacturers to include them in the manuals?
"Set speaker setting to large and the crossover point for your sub will be X."
"Set speaker setting to small and the crossover point for your sub will be Y."
I guess I'll just buy it and see how it sounds, and if it seems OK I'll keep it!

[Kris Deering]

Originally posted by rickardl
jpco, regarding black level calibration; the secrets benchmarks states
that the player does not pass below black signals but could that
be overcome by adjusting Gamma, Brightness and/or Contrast
on the player?

Also, I have read elsewhere that the layer change is virtually unnoticeable
which seems to be everybody's opinion so far.

This problem cannot be overcome. It the player is clipping, there is no way to regain the information.

This player uses a Media Tech all in on chip solution. There are a lot of budget players out there using this solution as you will see in our upcoming benchmark. This chip is EXTREMELLY fast with navigation and generally has a seamless layer change (though not always).

The problem with the chip is its employment. It seems that it is very hit or miss and no one company has got it down completely. If you merged a few of the players together, the chip does tremendously well, but for now each company seems to drop the ball in one place or another.

The only hard limitation I have seen with this chip is below black.

[Q of BanditZ]

So, how do you all like this player for audio purposes? I wouldn't mind having an SACD and DVD-A player to go with my HK 630 at some point. Ideally, I would like one that has the best audio specs possible on today's market.

[mallu2u]

Originally posted by Kris Deering
There is only one DVD recorder in the mix, the Liteon. I only have so much money plus I was trying to keep the players MSRP under $300. There are two that are over $200, the rest came in under $100!!! If I see more over the next few weeks I may get a few more. I just bought 2 more at lunch. I am going to try and make it to two more shops over by Seattle that may have some as well, including Fry's which I believe has the Toshiba with the HDMI out on it.

Kris: Are you including 563A or 578A for this review?

Edit: Got that answered by reading more on this thread. I am waiting for the results now!

[mallu2u]

Originally posted by trancedigital
I just got the Pioneer 578A

MP3: Browsing MP3 files literally sucks with this player. At any given time only six songs are shown on the menu. There is no numbering on the list of songs. So if you have 100 songs on one disc and you want to listen to song #85, then you will have to scroll down one by one till you get to that song. One cannot just press the buttons 8 & 5 on the remote to get to that song (My old DVD player -Daewoo has this function). Scrolling down is not that fast. No support for long file names or random play. The manual specifically mentions that one cannot program or play MP3/WMA discs at random. File/Folder title support is upto 14 characters including spaces. For example:
"DJ Tiesto - Live in Amsterdam" will show as:
"DJ Tiesto - Li"
Having said this, most of the above functions can be done with DVD-video, DVD-A and SACD. WHY NOT MP3 or WMA??? :mad:

Strange. I have the 563A which does have the numbers associated to the CD. Change the views and you might be able to get the number

[mallu2u]

Originally posted by TheOski
The biggest problem I have with 563a is that its video stability is so so, if a dvd is encoded with incorrent progressive flags it focuses in and out and that pal dvds do the shaking thing. If 578a can fix these problems I will be a happy camper. Especially that I watch tons of European movies and I always had to watch them on my trusty Apex 1500.

On the other hand, Zenith DVB318 looks interesting. I have 32hs510 but I am not sure if DVI and upconversion to 1080i are worth trying. Any ideas?

What does "incorrent progressive flags " mean? How does one detect it?

[driggity]

Originally posted by BradJudy
I sent an inquiry to Pioneer US about the 578 and it's crossover points a week or so ago. Today they wrote back saying they don't have specs on the 578 yet and that I should ask again in two weeks. Odd considering Pioneer Canada responded to someone else here with details.

Yeah, when I sent them an email regarding this a few weeks ago they said to call their tech support line. So I did and after being passed to like the 5th person was told they didn't have any information. Not a great impression to make.

[Q of BanditZ]

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
So, how do you all like this player for audio purposes? I wouldn't mind having an SACD and DVD-A player to go with my HK 630 at some point. Ideally, I would like one that has the best audio specs possible on today's market.

[jpco]

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
So, how do you all like this player for audio purposes? I wouldn't mind having an SACD and DVD-A player to go with my HK 630 at some point. Ideally, I would like one that has the best audio specs possible on today's market.

Because I've only tried two universal players (563 & 578), I'm not an expert, but the bass levels on SACD were too low (in volume) for me. I'd like more settings. The analog CD audio itself is good, but not great. For the price and features, it's seems to be a solid player. I'd imagine you'd have to spend quite a bit more money for an excellent sounding universal player with flexible bass management.

The 578a doesn't play MP3s randomly. That coupled with the bass issue has me ready to pack it back up for BB.

[yano]

Originally posted by Azanon
I have the Pioneer DV-578-A. Ok cept for one problem i've noticed; On Faith Hill's DVD-A, if you let it completely play a track, the next song sounds like garble. However, if you backarrow it to the start of the same track, it starts over, but sounds fine. It does this for all songs on the DVD-A.

Unfortunately, its the only DVD-A i have right now so i dont have another to test. The two SACD's i own dont seem to have this problem.

Hopefully its just a problem with the faith hill cd, and not the player.

Azanon

I also have this exact same problem with all of my DVD-Audio discs - If you let it play from 1 track to the next = distorted sound; you have to skip to the next track or skip back to the start of the track to fix the distorted sound. I only noticed this problem with multi-channel DVD-Audio discs and under the following conditions:

1)Speakers all set to small and subwoofer on
2)Multi-channel DVD Audio disc utilizing multi-channel track - does not happen with 2-channel dvd audio discs

This would seem to indicate there is a glitch with the Bass Management in this player... When all speakers are set to large(subwoofer on or off - obviously doesn't matter as there is no bass re-direction) this doesn't happen. I was also playing around with the idea of leaving the mains large
and rest of the speakers small and I got distortion all the time! Could not fix it by skipping tracks. None of these problems occur with SACD or the onboard DD/DTS decoder. Has anyone else noticed this??

The player seems rock solid - so far - in other areas: SVCD, MP3s(no ID3 tag reading though :mad: ) , DVDs, DVD-R/+R/-RW/+RW, navigating DVD menus are extremely fast, barely notice(if at all) the layer switch(SW:ATOC took a fraction of a second)and CDs don't sound half bad. Oh yeah and SACD!! The bass level from SACD/DVD-Audio isn't an issue for me as my Yamaha RX-V1400 can adjust the input levels for the Multi ch inputs separately and give the bass the boost it needs.

For now I'll live with this glitch as I don't own that many DVD-Audio discs and I usually don't listen to the whole disc at once. With this issue and not being able to pass PLUGE, it's still a better deal at under $200CDN than the Toshiba 6915 or Samsung 841.

I guess I'll contact Pioneer about this glitch and see what they have to say...:rolleyes:

[Emmett]

Yano would you mind letting me know where you purchased your 578a? I would also be interested in the price as well. I am waiting for that model to show up on Vancouver Island. I almost went for the 563a on a recent trip to Vancouver. They were being sold for 229.00 as clear-out.

I think the 578a will be as good if not better even though I listen to DVD-A and plan on getting into SA-CD's as well.

Thanks and regards
Emmett

[yano]

Check your messages...

[tjk]

Originally posted by yano
I also have this exact same problem with all of my DVD-Audio discs - If you let it play from 1 track to the next = distorted sound; you have to skip to the next track or skip back to the start of the track to fix the distorted sound. I only noticed this problem with multi-channel DVD-Audio discs and under the following conditions:

1)Speakers all set to small and subwoofer on
2)Multi-channel DVD Audio disc utilizing multi-channel track - does not happen with 2-channel dvd audio discs

This would seem to indicate there is a glitch with the Bass Management in this player... When all speakers are set to large(subwoofer on or off - obviously doesn't matter as there is no bass re-direction) this doesn't happen. I was also playing around with the idea of leaving the mains large
and rest of the speakers small and I got distortion all the time! Could not fix it by skipping tracks. None of these problems occur with SACD or the onboard DD/DTS decoder. Has anyone else noticed this??

For now I'll live with this glitch as I don't own that many DVD-Audio discs and I usually don't listen to the whole disc at once.

I would return the player and get a new one. I have the 578a and it's been flawless on all DVD-A's and SACD's, both multi-channel and two channel. These problems are more than likely isolated incidents.

[mallu2u]

I still have the 563A. Is there a place where I can get the latest firmware update, except sending it over to Pioneer for upgrade?

[Billped]

Originally posted by mallu2u
I still have the 563A. Is there a place where I can get the latest firmware update, except sending it over to Pioneer for upgrade?

I believe there is a Pioneer Service Center in Herndon. Check Pioneer's website for more info.


Bill

[mallu2u]

thanks billped..will call them....

[mallu2u]

have any of you experienced that for some DVDs, the player pauses for a second or so?

[tjk]

Originally posted by mallu2u
have any of you experienced that for some DVDs, the player pauses for a second or so?

No. I've watched about 10 movies or so.

[mallu2u]

hmm...wonder what is up with my player then..anyone else?

[rickardl]

Kris,

regarding the 'Bad Edit' test for the DV-578A, did you use
the sequence from the Big Lebowski documentery?

I am trying to figure out if the European DV-575A has the same
problems as the DV-578A. For the problem for the Big Lebowski
documentary, it shows no combing or artifacts whatsoever in that edit.
How did the problem manifest itself?

Edit: the DV-575A even has the same firmware revision as the DV-578A
seems to have: 1.22!
Differences/similarities so far:
- DV-578A does not play Divx and lacks a SCART-RGB socket
- DV-575A does not seem to have the 'Bad Edit' problem (Lebowski doc)
- Same chip MT1389EE and firmware revision 1.22
- Neither does pass below black signals.
- They have slightly different front plates.
- Same specs and functionality otherwise.

[yano]

Originally posted by tjk
I would return the player and get a new one. I have the 578a and it's been flawless on all DVD-A's and SACD's, both multi-channel and two channel. These problems are more than likely isolated incidents.

I did some more tests(guess I should have checked ALL my discs first!!) and I only had 2 DVD-Audio discs that were exhibiting this strange scratchy/garbled noise on multi-channel after playing through to the next track. They are:

Metallica(Black Album)
Corrs: In Blue

The discs which worked fine were:

Megadeth: Peace Sells...But Who's Buying
Bjork: Vespertine

Can you or someone else who has these discs trying playing them with all speakers set to small and sub on and playing from 1 track to the next without skipping?? Unfortunately that's all I have for multi-channel DVD Audio discs, the rest are 2 channel only...

Which multi-channel discs do you have tjk?

My firmware revision is 1.22(same place as DV-563a).

[tjk]

Originally posted by yano
I did some more tests(guess I should have checked ALL my discs first!!) and I only had 2 DVD-Audio discs that were exhibiting this strange scratchy/garbled noise on multi-channel after playing through to the next track. They are:

Metallica(Black Album)
Corrs: In Blue

The discs which worked fine were:

Megadeth: Peace Sells...But Who's Buying
Bjork: Vespertine

Can you or someone else who has these discs trying playing them with all speakers set to small and sub on and playing from 1 track to the next without skipping?? Unfortunately that's all I have for multi-channel DVD Audio discs, the rest are 2 channel only...

Which multi-channel discs do you have tjk?

My firmware revision is 1.22(same place as DV-563a).

I have several - but I'm not as into metal as you appear to be.

DVD-A
Elton John - Goodbye Yellow Brick Rd
Blue Man Group - Audio
Steeley Dan - Gaucho
Fleetwood Mac - Rumors

DTS
Eagles - Hell Freezes Over
Alan Parsons - On Air (One of the best recordings I've ever heard)
Diana Krall - Love Songs
Tribute to Weather Report
Moody Blues - Days of Future Passed
REO Speedwagon - Best Of

SACD
Pink Floyd - DSOTM
Norah Jones - Come Away With Me
Diana Krall - Her New CD
Yo Yo Ma - Brazilian...(forgot full title)
Journey - Escape (2 Channel)
Peter Gabriel - Passion (2 channel)

I've tried all of the DVD-A's and SACD's, all have worked fine. Hope this helps somewhat.

[Q of BanditZ]

So, how do you all feel about this unit's audio capabilities?

[tjk]

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
So, how do you all feel about this unit's audio capabilities?

I really have no basis to compare it to, as it's my first universal player. I bought it as a stop gap until the new Denon's/Pioneers are available. I will say that I love listening to multichannel DVD-A and SACD, and a couple of the two-channel SACD's I have sound great, particularly Peter Gabriel's Passion. I'm fairly confident, however, that when I compare it to a higher end model, it won't sound anywhere near it. But for now, ignorance is bliss, and I'm really enjoying it.

I will say that there is an extremely noticable difference when playing
DD/DTS, and switching between the Ext. In and the digital in. Basically, when I'm using my Denon 3802 to do the processing, there is a night and day difference in sound than when the 578a is doing it. That should go without saying - the 3802, although two models old, is a terrific receiver IMHO.

I expect that if/when I hook up, say, a 3910, there will be a much less noticable difference (if any is discernable at all) when switching between the player and the receiver. So by that logic, the DVD-A and SACD playback will be far superior. But for now, and for $149, this is a fantastic way to experience high-res audio, and I'm really enjoying my new Axiom setup as a result.

[robertc88]

Well I decided to try this universal player as I picked it up today at Best Buy.

I did try the Pioneer 563A and returned it because I thought I could do better on the video and also the player had compatability problems with some DVD-A recordings.

I plan to put this unit through its paces. The first thing I tried was DVD playback with a few chapters of Jurassic Park, Jurassic Park III, and Pefect Storm. I'm utilizing a component connection for progressive scan to my Tosh 50" RPTV.

From memory I do believe this unit has better PQ than the 563A. I have not done any adjustments in the menu for "video adjust" for sharpness, contrast, etc. and just used the default setting. Perhaps some of you have "tweaked" for PQ. I thought that the picture comes across a bit on the dark side for what I have watched so far. That is much better than being on the bright side for which I have taken other DVD players back that I tried because of that.

I thought the audio on the 563A was pretty good for a player in this price range. Hopefully this player at least equals the audio playback of that unit.

I'd like to know what PQ folks are getting from even non universal DVD players in this price range utilizing component 480p. I'm betting not much better (if any) as the pickings are quite slim on B&M store shelves that I've looked into quite extensively in the last month or so.

FWIW, I'm also trying the Sammy HD841. It costs $199. I don't have DVI capability. I'd think I'd rather have the 578A so long as it passes all my tests so I can save $60! :)

[Dick Kalagher]

I bought an open box 563a last week. I liked it so much, I decided to get a 578a instead, mainly because the 563a supposedly has problems playing some DVD-audio disks and I did not want to go through the firmware upgrade.

The 578a is smaller, lighter, and uses less power. It has 5 main menus vs the 653a's 6 menus (the setup menu is missing but most stuff can be done other places.) Some settings are missing altogether like telling it if your receiver supports certain bit rates.

With the 563a you can set the relative outpurts of your speakers, but there is no provision with the 578a. This is important since you can boost the subwoffer if needed. There are more video adjustments with the 578a, but there are no memories (there are 2 on the 563a).

The 563a has a disk navigator that lets you jump to various spots on DVD-audio disks (not sure about SACD). This is missing on the 578a so you can only use the navigator on the DVD-audio disk. The navigator on the 578a gives you thumbnails on DVD-video, but it did not work too well on the two disk I tried it on.

The new manual is about 40% shorter than the 563a manual since lots of features are missing.

I did not listen to these side by side. They both sound and look good. It does seem that the DVD-video is better on the 578a, however. But this is very subjective. I also think the SACD sounded slightly better on the 563a, but again this is by no means a scientific comparison.

So which one do I keep? Is there a way to tell if my 563a has the firmware that does not work on some disks without getting one of the disks and trying it?

Dick

[jpco]

There is a production date on the back of the 563 unit. I don't know what the cutoff was, but I thought I read that if it was manufactured March 2004 or later it would have the new firmware.

I'm really not sure of the date, but that could be a good starting place to investigate the unit.

[filmosound]

Originally posted by Dick Kalagher

The 563a has a disk navigator that lets you jump to various spots on DVD-audio disks (not sure about SACD). This is missing on the 578a so you can only use the navigator on the DVD-audio disk. The navigator on the 578a gives you thumbnails on DVD-video, but it did not work too well on the two disk I tried it on.
Dick

I own the new DV-578A, and have had success using the disk navigator on various types of discs including DVD-Video and a CDR of JPG's. With the DVD-Video disc I was able to punch in what chapter I wanted to jump to, and it worked quickly.

[Dick Kalagher]

Originally posted by filmosound
I own the new DV-578A, and have had success using the disk navigator on various types of discs including DVD-Video and a CDR of JPG's. With the DVD-Video disc I was able to punch in what chapter I wanted to jump to, and it worked quickly.

I have not tried those types of disks. The 563a let you see the whole structure of a SACD or DVD-audio disk. The 576a apparently has dropped this feature.

[mallu2u]

I had the 563 for about a month and ended up returning it. Seems like it was too sensitive with DVDs. One DVD skipped a whole lot for me or would just freeze at some scenes. Used my old Panny CV-51 for the same DVD..it skipped once. I knew something was wrong with the DVD and I cleaned it..maybe dusty. issue gone with my Panny and worked flawlessly. But still same issues with 563..skipping and freezing...could not stand that...just had to return it. My Panny is 3 yrs old and plays DVD perfectly...the PQ is not that gr8 as Pioneer...but the stability it seems is much better.

[filmosound]

Originally posted by mallu2u
I had the 563 for about a month and ended up returning it. Seems like it was too sensitive with DVDs. One DVD skipped a whole lot for me or would just freeze at some scenes.

Seems these units can really vary. I just got a 2nd DV578A to test, and the simulated error correction/dropout test results from a test CD I have are the most impressive results I've ever seen compared to 3 CD players and 7 DVD players I've tested over the years. It will play a 3.0mm dropout -- which is the largest dropout this test CD has. The previous DV578 would only play up to the 1.0mm track which is still quite good, compared to the 0.2mm redbook standard requirement.

These tests for CD's may not be an indication of the error correction for DVD's.

[mallu2u]

Originally posted by filmosound
Seems these units can really vary. I just got a 2nd DV578A to test, and the simulated error correction/dropout test results from a test CD I have are the most impressive results I've ever seen compared to 3 CD players and 7 DVD players I've tested over the years. It will play a 3.0mm dropout -- which is the largest dropout this test CD has. The previous DV578 would only play up to the 1.0mm track which is still quite good, compared to the 0.2mm redbook standard requirement.

These tests for CD's may not be an indication of the error correction for DVD's.

going by your analysis, I would say that the error correction of Pioneer 563A is pretty weak and that of Panny CV-51 is pretty good. I am curious how you created the dropout scenarios in ur CDs though.

[filmosound]

Originally posted by mallu2u
I am curious how you created the dropout scenarios in ur CDs though.

I have a Audio Test CD that I purchased over 10 years ago through a Canadian magainze that was called "Sound & Vision". (Not the same as the Stereo Review - Sound & Vision U.S. magazine). It has these simulated dropout tests.

I've seen a few players that can only play up to the 0.5mm dropout and skip after that. If it can play the 1.0 or 1.5mm without skipping that has seemed to be better than average. The first DV578 I had could play the 1.0mm, and that's more than acceptabe, imo. But I'm totally shocked this replacement DV578 can play the 3.0mm dropout track (there's nothing larger than 3.0mm on the disc). Previously I've never auditioned a player that could play anything larger than the 1.5mm dropout.

[mallu2u]

thanks for the info

[Raven_13]

Quick question?

Pardon my ignorance, I just ordered one of these units along with some SACD's. When playing a two channel track, do you have to have the two channel outputs connected, or will the fronts from the multichannel outputs work for two channel as well?

TIA,
Dan

[Dick Kalagher]

I do not have the two channel outputs connected and everything plays just fine.
Dick

[tjk]

Originally posted by Raven_13
Quick question?

Pardon my ignorance, I just ordered one of these units along with some SACD's. When playing a two channel track, do you have to have the two channel outputs connected, or will the fronts from the multichannel outputs work for two channel as well?

TIA,
Dan

Depends what kind of disk.

For an SACD that has both 5.1 AND 2 channel tracks, you need to go to the initial setup menu on the player and under the SACD option, tell it you want to play the 2 channel version.

If the SACD has ONLY a two channel track, the player will play it in two channel mode, even if your choice in the initial setup menu is to default to the 5.1 track (the player will determine that there is no 5.1 track, and will default to the 2 channel. However, the next time you put in a 5.1 hybrid with a 2 channel track, your preference will be saved and the 5.1 track will play).

I find it quite convenient, as I generally prefer the 5.1 track when it's available, yet for my two channel SACD's, I don't need to make any changes.

In any case, it is not necessary to hook any cables up other than the the six channel inputs. HOWEVER, I do have the two channel outputs connected to my receiver, so that I have analog output to my receiver which allows me to listen to a CD through my outdoor speakers, but that is specific to my case. To make a long story short, you don't need to connect the two channel outputs.

[Raven_13]

Thanks TJK,

Looks like my player will be here tomorrow. Just need to get the right number of cables for my receiver. One other question, I currently don't have a sub in my setup. Just 4 speakers and my tv speaker as a center. Am I likely to be disappointed in the multichannel playback missing the sub?
I assume it reroutes bass to the mains in that case.

Dan

[tjk]

Unless you have full-range speakers, you will not be taking advantage of the format without a sub, and will lose even more when watching movies.

Really depends on what kind of speakers you have - may be ok for two channel, but doubful that without a sub you won't be disappointed.

[Foxbat121]

I have a full 6.1 surround setup and I was still disappointed by the sound from 578a. It sounds like from a cheap CD player for both DVD-Audio and SACD. Compared to Samsung HD841, it's like day and night. And it is a cheap player by design. The only good thing about this player is the video PQ.

[Raven_13]

The fronts are a pair of paradigm phantoms. Bottom end is 30 hz i believe, the back pair are 25 year old pioneer from my first stereo system. Definately the weakest link is using my tv for a center channel. I have my eyes on couple of subs, just not ready to put down the money for it yet. It will be interesting to see how it goes.


Thanks again,
Dan

[Raven_13]

Originally posted by Foxbat121
I have a full 6.1 surround setup and I was still disappointed by the sound from 578a. It sounds like from a cheap CD player for both DVD-Audio and SACD. Compared to Samsung HD841, it's like day and night. And it is a cheap player by design. The only good thing about this player is the video PQ.


I understood some of the limitations of this player before I purchased. I needed to replace an old DVD player that crapped out, and chose this as a cheap entry to tryout SACD and DVD-A for the moment. If my tastes outgrow this, I will upgrade at a later time.

[TauRus]

Originally posted by Foxbat121
I have a full 6.1 surround setup and I was still disappointed by the sound from 578a. It sounds like from a cheap CD player for both DVD-Audio and SACD. Compared to Samsung HD841, it's like day and night. And it is a cheap player by design. The only good thing about this player is the video PQ.
That is interesting, Foxbat, because I also did a side by side comparoison between these two players, Sammy and Pio, and I actually prefered Pio for slightly more open "airy" sound. In any case, these both players are budget units and they both sound approximately on the same level. I definitely did not hear a "night and day" difference. I compared them on regular CDs, SACDs, DVD-A, DTS discs and regular DVDs. I had both units at home connected to the same receiver and the same speakers at the same time (meaning, I was not relyin on my memory). I had no bias towards nether of the two, and could easily keep any. After careful comparison, I kept Pio. Both, Pio and Sammy, sounded way inferior to Denon DVD2900 tht I also owned (consider it my reference point for comparison).
But i understand we all have different ears, different reference points, different rooms and equipment, so all of that could lead you to your conclusion.

[Raven_13]

FoxBat and Taurau,

I appreciate both your inputs. I purchased mainly for the video section of this player. Fast navigation and good picture quality being my main concerns. I had seen comments on both sides of the players audio side. Since I've never heard any Hi-rez players, it may well sound very good to me in contrast to my 25 year old cd player. As an earlier poster said, ignorance is bliss. Taurau, since you already have an Denon 2900, did you purchase this unit for it's video capabilities, or to use in a second room?

Dan

[Foxbat121]

Originally posted by TauRus
That is interesting, Foxbat, because I also did a side by side comparoison between these two players, Sammy and Pio, and I actually prefered Pio for slightly more open "airy" sound. In any case, these both players are budget units and they both sound approximately on the same level. I definitely did not hear a "night and day" difference. I compared them on regular CDs, SACDs, DVD-A, DTS discs and regular DVDs. I had both units at home connected to the same receiver and the same speakers at the same time (meaning, I was not relyin on my memory). I had no bias towards nether of the two, and could easily keep any. After careful comparison, I kept Pio. Both, Pio and Sammy, sounded way inferior to Denon DVD2900 tht I also owned (consider it my reference point for comparison).
But i understand we all have different ears, different reference points, different rooms and equipment, so all of that could lead you to your conclusion.

TauRus,

From the HD841 thread, you said you're comparing Pio Elite DV50A to HD841, not 758a.

FYI, I had two players at my home the same time for side by side test as well. I ended up return Pioneer first and Samsung later (for its various problems other than audio quality). The sound from 578a is definitely dry and uninspiring compared to HD841, to my ear anyway.

[TauRus]

Yep, Foxbat, that is true, DV50A, which is an Elite version of 563A. True, I have not listened to 578A myself but from the many reviews here I assumed the 563A and 578A sounded quite similar. That is why I shared my observation with you. But I accept your criticism - I should not have assumed that 578A sounds like 563A.

[TauRus]

Originally posted by Raven_13
FoxBat and Taurau,

I appreciate both your inputs. I purchased mainly for the video section of this player. Fast navigation and good picture quality being my main concerns. I had seen comments on both sides of the players audio side. Since I've never heard any Hi-rez players, it may well sound very good to me in contrast to my 25 year old cd player. As an earlier poster said, ignorance is bliss. Taurau, since you already have an Denon 2900, did you purchase this unit for it's video capabilities, or to use in a second room?

Dan
Raven, I ended up returning my Denon for completely different reasons - reliability issues, but sonically it is indeed superior to both Sammy and Pio I auditioned. Video-wise, I don't think the difference between Denon and these two was that great. At least not in my setup.

[Foxbat121]

TauRus,

From what I read 578a is a step backwards compared to 563a in DVD-A/SACD. That's explains 578a's MSRP is much lower than 563a's initial MSRP. I was really hoping 578a can replace the problematic HD841 as a cheap univeral player but I was really disappointed. So I returned both players and bought a pair of nice speakers (Pioneer) as well as a 12" subwoofer for less the money I paid for HD841:)

[robertc88]

I also returned the HD841. The player I'm focused on right now is the CA Azur 540D as a local audio dealer carries it so I can audition it. Not universal but I have another SACD player so that is covered.

[Raven_13]

I got my unit and still had the old player hooked up. Rented a couple of DVD movies to watch and the old player locked up (the only thing it seems to play occasionally is pristine discs) Hooked up the pioneer and had it working in a few minutes. Nice PQ. Unit also played CD's and MP3's which the older unit never worked on. Still waiting on the arrival of some SACD's to try with this unit. CD sound quality was as good as on my old pioneer player of vintage age. As others have pointed out the mp3 navigation is pretty user unfriendly. I seriously doubt I'll use that feature very often, so not a big deal to me personally. So far I'd have to say I like this unit for the price and what it does.

Dan

[Raven_13]

This little player doesn't get much press in this forum does it? I got the 3 SACD's I ordered yesterday. Played a little of pink floyd's DSOTM. Seemed pretty crisp to me. I haven't messed with any of the default settings, so not sure how much I should hear from the surround speakers. I don't have a sub so all bass will have to come from having four similar speakers set to large. I'll eventually get a regular CD of one of these SACD's for comparison listening. Overall I'm very impressed with this player.

So far it has played flawlessly everything I've thrown at it. Some DVD's that my old player and others players have refused to work with just load and play. Hopefully no more of those disgruntled looks from my wife with comments like we should just have rented a VCR tape.....blah blah. This may turn out to be the best $150 bucks I've spent on our audio/video system.

[Foxbat121]

For video quality, this player is pretty good and has the fastest layer change among all other DVD players out there. My only complaint is that when you turn on the unit, it takes couple seconds before front panel shows any message. I can't remember how many times I have to hit power button on remote because the player doesn't give any indication that it has powered up in first couple seconds.

[Raven_13]

LOL, yes I noticed this also. About the only thing slow on this thing. A small inconvienence once used to it. I haven't had the player long enough to really find a bunch of little gotchas it might have.

[Emmett]

I am still enjoying this machine after almost a month. I backed up my first movie for this machine as my old Toshiba wasn't compatible and have yet to have one that doesn't play. (only Apocalypse Now Redux had some stuttering problems at the end probably due to the 3hr and 20 min length)

I paid 199.00 Canadian and when I stopped in at Future Shop (Best Buy) in Nanaimo yesterday they had it on for 179.00. so I got a twenty dollar refund. This equates to about 135.00 US and it handles everything.

I was very impressed with the automatic memory when I put in a movie I had watched a few days previously and it started where I had left off. I had listened to music disc's in the meantime so this really surprised me.

Regards
Emmett

[Foxbat121]

Originally posted by Raven_13
LOL, yes I noticed this also. About the only thing slow on this thing. A small inconvienence once used to it. I haven't had the player long enough to really find a bunch of little gotchas it might have.

It's not exactly slow but rather poor design. Most players I have used take couple seconds to startup as well but they all show something (like an LED or panel messages) right away.

The main complaint I have with this player is poor bass managment with DVD-Audio and SACD. It's almost non-existent. You will need 5 full-range speakers as your subwoofer won't do much for you.

[Raven_13]

Originally posted by Foxbat121
It's not exactly slow but rather poor design. Most players I have used take couple seconds to startup as well but they all show something (like an LED or panel messages) right away.

The main complaint I have with this player is poor bass managment with DVD-Audio and SACD. It's almost non-existent. You will need 5 full-range speakers as your subwoofer won't do much for you.


Luckily four of my speakers are full range, so BM shouldn't be a problem. For those that do have it as a problem the ICBM should work wonders. It will be interesting to see if the new players coming out address this problem.

Dan

[Raven_13]

Originally posted by Emmett
I am still enjoying this machine after almost a month. I backed up my first movie for this machine as my old Toshiba wasn't compatible and have yet to have one that doesn't play. (only Apocalypse Now Redux had some stuttering problems at the end probably due to the 3hr and 20 min length)

I paid 199.00 Canadian and when I stopped in at Future Shop (Best Buy) in Nanaimo yesterday they had it on for 179.00. so I got a twenty dollar refund. This equates to about 135.00 US and it handles everything.

I was very impressed with the automatic memory when I put in a movie I had watched a few days previously and it started where I had left off. I had listened to music disc's in the meantime so this really surprised me.

Regards
Emmett

Emmett,

Glad your still enjoying yours after a month. Hope I feel the same way about mine :D

[tjk]

Originally posted by Foxbat121
It's not exactly slow but rather poor design. Most players I have used take couple seconds to startup as well but they all show something (like an LED or panel messages) right away.

The main complaint I have with this player is poor bass managment with DVD-Audio and SACD. It's almost non-existent. You will need 5 full-range speakers as your subwoofer won't do much for you.

I do not have five full-range speakers - I have Axiom M22's for my fronts, VP-150 center, and QS8's as rears. None are rated below 60hz. I have not had any problem getting powerful bass out of my M&K sub from this machine. I calibrated the exteral in jacks on my receiver with the AVIA disk, which I know is a DD disk, but it allowed me to equalize the channel levels using the six channel inputs. I may have had to set the subs channel level a little higher, but I was able to get an equal setting out of all six channels. Calibration with a sound level meter is a must for this, and all players.

I did notice on the sweep test a bit of a drop-off in the lower end of the midrange, and since there is no crossover settings in the player, not much you can do about it. But it does more than an adequate job considering I've spent more on a round on some golf courses than I did to buy this player.

[Foxbat121]

tjk,

My reference point is Samsung HD841 which cost me $179 compared to 578a's $149. I would say 578a does an ok job but not enough compared to what 841 can do. I impression on 578a is just like you posted, missing low end of the midrange and I don't think high end is there as well. But that's just my impression. Neither are audiophile quality anyway.

[tjk]

Originally posted by Foxbat121
tjk,

Neither are audiophile quality anyway.

That's why I'm waiting for the Denon 3910:)

But I'm grateful that the 578a has made being patient a lot easier.

[Raven_13]

Originally posted by tjk
I do not have five full-range speakers - I have Axiom M22's for my fronts, VP-150 center, and QS8's as rears. None are rated below 60hz. I have not had any problem getting powerful bass out of my M&K sub from this machine. I calibrated the exteral in jacks on my receiver with the AVIA disk, which I know is a DD disk, but it allowed me to equalize the channel levels using the six channel inputs. I may have had to set the subs channel level a little higher, but I was able to get an equal setting out of all six channels. Calibration with a sound level meter is a must for this, and all players.

I did notice on the sweep test a bit of a drop-off in the lower end of the midrange, and since there is no crossover settings in the player, not much you can do about it. But it does more than an adequate job considering I've spent more on a round on some golf courses than I did to buy this player.

TJK,

Does your receiver allow you to save separate settings for the multichannel inputs? It sounds like maybe it does. I wish that was a feature of my Yamaha rxv1400, but don't believe it is. I can adjust line levels but then that changes the auto room correction features of the receiver itself. I got a chance to listen to a little of Diana Krall this evening prior to leaving for a meeting. A nice multichannel mix, crystal clear vocals, various instruments occasionally coming from surrounds. Luckily I haven't felt the need to adjust the receiver from it's auto calibration for home theater.

[tjk]

Originally posted by Raven_13
TJK,

Does your receiver allow you to save separate settings for the multichannel inputs? It sounds like maybe it does. I wish that was a feature of my Yamaha rxv1400, but don't believe it is. I can adjust line levels but then that changes the auto room correction features of the receiver itself. I got a chance to listen to a little of Diana Krall this evening prior to leaving for a meeting. A nice multichannel mix, crystal clear vocals, various instruments occasionally coming from surrounds. Luckily I haven't felt the need to adjust the receiver from it's auto calibration for home theater.

I have a Denon 3802. It does not have the room equalization features of the latest models, but it does save the channel levels for the ext. in jacks, independently of the channel levels for the other inputs. In fact, all of the different sound modes (DD/DTS, PLII, DSP modes) save the channel level you set. I find this to be very useful. Although there is no test tone from the ext. in jacks, the channel levels can be adjusted with the Avia or any other disk with a test tone, and they don't change should you adjust, for example, the DD/DTS levels. I find it suprising that any receiver wouldn't offer this, because the multichannel ext. in will be using an outside processor, and the digital inputs will use the receivers processor, so there are likely going to be very different levels needed to properly calibrate your system.

Hope that helps.

[Raven_13]

Unless I'm totally misreading the manual, it will not keep separate settings for different inputs. Definately a weak part of this receiver. Of course I didn't pay for the features that some of the more expensive models have. As always in life you get what you pay for.

Dan

[filmosound]

I'm now on my 3rd DV-578A. The first one skipped on quite a few DVD-Audio discs. The 2nd one played all my DVD-Audio discs without skipping with the exception of the last 2 tracks on "The Latin Jazz Trio" by AIX records (an excellent disc, btw! I highly recommend it, as well as Beck - Sea Change). Went to the store and tried out another DV-578A and it played these last 2 tracks fine. So I exchanged the player again, and this one seems to be fine! My advice it to try as many DVD-Audio discs as possible before the exchange period is up. Once you get one with out defects, I think it's great player for the money!

And these last 2 DV-578's I have that were manufactured in April 2002, have excellent error correction for CD's. They play a 2.5mm dropout track on a test CD that I have, which is the best error correction I've ever seen from any CD or DVD player I've tested.

[Mike Up]

Originally posted by filmosound
I'm now on my 3rd DV-578A. The first one skipped on quite a few DVD-Audio discs. The 2nd one played all my DVD-Audio discs without skipping with the exception of the last 2 tracks on "The Latin Jazz Trio" by AIX records (an excellent disc, btw! I highly recommend it, as well as Beck - Sea Change). Went to the store and tried out another DV-578A and it played these last 2 tracks fine. So I exchanged the player again, and this one seems to be fine! My advice it to try as many DVD-Audio discs as possible before the exchange period is up. Once you get one with out defects, I think it's great player for the money!

And these last 2 DV-578's I have that were manufactured in April 2002, have excellent error correction for CD's. They play a 2.5mm dropout track on a test CD that I have, which is the best error correction I've ever seen from any CD or DVD player I've tested.

Being you've had so much trouble with the DV-578a, did you buy from an authorized dealer? If not, the dealer might have bought a shipment real cheap because of a truck accident or similar trouble. I never trust unauthorized dealers.

Have a good one.

[Yung]

A bit OT, but I was wondering which version of Hell Freezes Over is best. The DTS version, the SACD or the DVD-A? I currently have the DV-578A-S and want to pick up some multi-channel music.

[Raven_13]

Originally posted by Yung
A bit OT, but I was wondering which version of Hell Freezes Over is best. The DTS version, the SACD or the DVD-A? I currently have the DV-578A-S and want to pick up some multi-channel music.

I don't have any of the Eagles hi-rez stuff. But if I remember right many liked the DVD-A discs. You might get more responses by posting this on a SACD or DVD-A thread. More on topic, how do you like your 578? I love mine, just keeps playing discs that others have trouble with...gotta love that.

[DigiPete]

My 578a runs great. Video is awesome on my 30" tube...

I have Eagles Hotel California DVD-A, as well as Sting Brand New Day DVD-A, REM DVD-A, Norah Jones SACD, Police SACD, all run and sound great.

Cheers

[Dan Hitchman]

Eagles Hell Freezes Over is only available as a DTS CD (now in a DVD-Audio jewel box) which is lossy compressed DTS at full bitrate, but limited to a 44.1 kHz sampling rate due to CD-Rom limitations.

I'd love to see it come out on a true high rez. DVD-Audio (now DualDisc) or SACD, but for now it still sounds pretty good.

If you want the complete concert then get the DTS DVD from Image Entertainment (you can always turn off the TV). Also full bitrate DTS, but at 48 kHz sampling.

[Yung]

Eagles Hell Freezes Over is available the Buy.com website. It seems to be available in the DTS & DVD-A. I thought I saw it available in SACD but can't find it now.

http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=40106896&loc=107&sp=1

http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=60601994&loc=109&sp=1

As far as the DV-578, I like it so far, but haven't put it through its paces, despite owning it for a couple of months now. I have been only using composite video cables as my tv doesn't support it, but my Sony XBR960 is coming in next week and I'll get some component cables by then. I am also getting my first A/V receiver & speakers, so I will be able to start listening to multi-channel music too!

[filmosound]

Originally posted by Mike Up
Being you've had so much trouble with the DV-578a, did you buy from an authorized dealer? If not, the dealer might have bought a shipment real cheap because of a truck accident or similar trouble. I never trust unauthorized dealers.

Have a good one.

Yes, all 3 were purchased from authorized dealers. Crutchfield (U.S.) and Future Shop (Canada). (I live near the border).

Still haven't had any problems with this 3rd unit. (knock on wood).

I have Paradigm reference series speakers and a subwoofer, and set all the speakers to large with sub on. The subwoofer is definitely utilized, but it really depends on the DVD-Audio disc as to how much info is mixed to the subwoofer channel.

[A/Vspec]

I see BB has it on sale for $129. Was thinking about picking it up just to try out some of these DVD-A and SACD disc's I have laying around.

Thoughts?

[andrewe77]

I'm also thinking about getting it for 129.99. Is this going to be the lowest price for the year or should I wait a month for my Bday?

[filmosound]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by filmosound
Still haven't had any problems with this 3rd unit. (knock on wood).
QUOTE]

Just picked up the DVD-Audio of Neil Young - Greendale today, and my DV-578 will not play it back in DVD-Audio mode. It freezes up the player. I know this was a problem with the DV-563's, but I thought they fixed it in the 578's? Mine is an early model 578, manufactured in April 2004, firmware 1.22.

If you have one of the problematic discs (Greendale, Gaucho, etc.) and it plays in your 578 (in DVD-Audio format), could you please post what month your player was manufactured, and the firmware version?

how to check the firmware...

Power on the player
- Go to Home Menu
- Choose "Initial Settings"
- Go down to Options (not enter sub menu)
- Press Display on Remote

[Version]

Will this unit pilar box 4:3 material?

I would like to add this to my LG 7832 for audio playback but I also want to use it for 4:3 material, which my LG sends out as 1080i 16:9. Ugly.

[Foxbat121]

This is player does not upconvert. 480p only. There is no need to pilar box 480p signal. This player fully supports ID-1 aspect ratio flag. If your TV supports it, you will get automatic switching between 4:3 and 16:9 material.

[DigiPete]

Originally posted by filmosound
[QUOTE]Originally posted by filmosound
Still haven't had any problems with this 3rd unit. (knock on wood).
QUOTE]

Just picked up the DVD-Audio of Neil Young - Greendale today, and my DV-578 will not play it back in DVD-Audio mode. It freezes up the player. I know this was a problem with the DV-563's, but I thought they fixed it in the 578's? Mine is an early model 578, manufactured in April 2004, firmware 1.22.

If you have one of the problematic discs (Greendale, Gaucho, etc.) and it plays in your 578 (in DVD-Audio format), could you please post what month your player was manufactured, and the firmware version?

how to check the firmware...

Power on the player
- Go to Home Menu
- Choose "Initial Settings"
- Go down to Options (not enter sub menu)
- Press Display on Remote

Hi,

I have Region 1 firmware 1.44 and it was manufactured on June 04, purchased from OnecAll.com

All my DVD audios play just fine. Try calling Pioneer for an update?

Good luck.

[Version]

This is player does not upconvert. 480p only. There is no need to pilar box 480p signal. This player fully supports ID-1 aspect ratio flag. If your TV supports it, you will get automatic switching between 4:3 and 16:9 material.

Should I take this to mean the 578 cannot pillar box a 4:3 image?

My TV doesn't change its aspect settings unless I force it. My Toshiba SD-4800 can output a 480p 4:3 image pillar boxed with black bars so that I can leave my TV on the "full" aspect ratio. I prefer this to the grey bars I can add to a 480p image with my TV.

[Version]

Anyone?

[Foxbat121]

Originally posted by Version
Should I take this to mean the 578 cannot pillar box a 4:3 image?


Correct. There is no such option.

[filmosound]

Originally posted by filmosound
[QUOTE]Originally posted by filmosound
Still haven't had any problems with this 3rd unit. (knock on wood).
QUOTE]

Just picked up the DVD-Audio of Neil Young - Greendale today, and my DV-578 will not play it back in DVD-Audio mode. It freezes up the player. I know this was a problem with the DV-563's, but I thought they fixed it in the 578's? Mine is an early model 578, manufactured in April 2004, firmware 1.22.

If you have one of the problematic discs (Greendale, Gaucho, etc.) and it plays in your 578 (in DVD-Audio format), could you please post what month your player was manufactured, and the firmware version?



we finally got some newer stock in Ontario, so I swapped mine for a July 2004 manufactured DV-578 with firmware 1.44. "Greendale" still will not play in DVD-Audio mode. I wouldn't be surprised if this doesn't play in the old DV-563's with the firmware fix either. This disc did play in a Yamaha Universal player I tried at another store. Time to change brands..... the Yamaha is too expensive, but I think I'll try a Panasonic DVD-F87.

[A/Vspec]

Does the DVD-F87 do SACD? I want a universal player that plays both DVD-A and SACD. I am not concerned about video quality as I use a HTPC and soon a V880N or one of the new network players.

[Emmett]

Yes it does do SACD. I bouth my player mainly for SACD and DVD-A but it is also rated fairly high in the video department.

I noticed your comments about HTPC and I hope to join you in that department. Especially as a video recorder for HD. I can't stand watching my VCR copies of the Ryder Cup compared to the clarity of HD on my widescreen. Got to go see the finish.

Regards
EJM

[A/Vspec]

Thanks Emmett. I will have to go take a look at the DVD-F87 then. Are there any reviews on the unit out there?

[A/Vspec]

Panasonics website (http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/vModelDetail?storeId=11251&catalogId=11005&itemId=69606&catGroupId=11059&displayTab=S&surfModel=DVD-F87S&surfCategory=DVD%20Home%20Players) does not show it supporting SACD?

Were did you find that it supports SACD?

[Emmett]

Sorry my mistake. As this is a 578a thread I didn't look at the model number you posted just ass umed it was the Pioneer 578a you were asking about.

Regards
Emmett

[A/Vspec]

Quite alright. So you like the 578a then?

[Emmett]

Very happy with the 578a. I wanted the SACD and DVD-A capabilities primarily and it was a fraction of what my second generation Toshiba cost. You have to love technology.

With HD DVD just around the corner, I couldn't justify the cost of a similar Denon. I would bet that I could build a HD recording PC for the price differance.

Regards
EJM

[filmosound]

Emmett, you wouldn't be too happy with the Pioneer 578 if you tried to play the "Neil Young - Greendale" DVD-Audio disc in it! :mad:

I should have mentioned that my reason for considering (and purchasing) the Panasonic DVD-F87 was because I don't really need SACD. I only have 1 SACD and it seemed to sound just as good in my CD player as it did in the Pioneer. It seems I'm always buying DVD-Audio discs, and have a dozen now... so that's where my priority lies.

[union1411]

Got the 578 for x-mas. Love it. DVD-A, SACD, and good PQ for $115 (CC 110% price match of Tweeter).

[Bluesea]

How well does the 578 handle DVD-R?

[Emmett]

I have had nothing but success using the 578a with DVD-R and DVD+R. It is a great machine for compatibility.

Regards

[Big Worms]

Originally posted by badabing
>
Some stores are not selling them anymore, and are putting them on clearance.

Could this mean that a new pioneer player is set for release soon?
Yeah BB does not carry it anymore. Any body have any ideas?

[DaveInBerlinNJ]

Etronics reports having it available. (Froogle is your friend!)

And how old is this thread??
It's so old, that I now own the 578a TJK posted about earlier in this thread (and have for over a month now). Hope he's enjoying his new Denon!

Anyway, just wanted to chime in. My 578a is a terrific little player. It has actually gotten me interested in music again, after a long hiatus. When done well, hi-rez surround audio is absolutely fantastic. Playing my music REALLY LOUD (and really CLEAR) has become my little guilty pleasure again.

Surprised to see the price is INCREASING as it goes out of stock... seems odd to me. Before the holidays, this player was going for under $100.

Even at it's current slightly higher price, I would certainly recommend it to anyone looking for their first universal player. It's a great bargain.

One more thing... I use a Momitsu v880 as my DVD movie player, and the 578a for audio only. There was a concern that the 2 players wouldn't co-exist well, as the Momitsu apparently uses Pioneer IR codes for its remote. I've had no remote crosstalk issues with either player. Note that I use a Hot Link Pro IR extender, so ALL equipment receives ALL remote commands, ALL the time. No problems.

[sirmikael]

Sorry to renew this thread again, but I have heard quite a bit about this player being region-free out of the box. Is there any truth to this?

[badabing]

Region free out of the box, i don't think so....

But, out of the box you will be able tp play and convert PAL (all region) discs.

[Big Worms]

Originally posted by Big Worms
Yeah BB does not carry it anymore. Any body have any ideas?
Well it looks like there is a new version coming out. 588 should be out by April or March.

[blackmax2k1]

588 link (http://www.pioneerusa.com/pna/press/release/detail/0,,2076_4313_191756422,00.html)

[spydermonkey311]

Wow, the 588 sounds great! Ive been hoping Pioneer comes out with a Divx capable player :D

For icing on the cake, it would be nice to have a DVD Recorder feature also :D

[Micah008]

I ended up returning my 578 last week because the video kept freezing up on us. We were watching the 3rd season of 24, and on many of the episodes the video would lock up, but the sound would continue. When I hit stop I then essentially got a "blue screen of death".

It seemed to be something related to the resume feature, because it would do it every time you turned off the player and then turned it back on to watch the next episode, but not if you just kept watching.

I was able to get it out of this mode a couple times, but not always.

Has anyone else seen this problem? I liked this player a lot if it wasn't for this issue.

[tomdkat]

Thanks for the info on the DV-588! I held out on the DV-578 with the hope that a new player would come out soon so I'll check out the DV-588 later this year. :)

Peace...

[cjtalbot]

Hey all,

I have a question in regard to the Pioneer DV-578A

Does anyone know if this box can output 480i via the component jacks?

I just sent back the Sony DVP-NC875VB 5 Disc DVD Changer because it does not output 480i via the component jacks, it only outputs 480i via the composite and s-video outputs.

I have an older basic JVC 32" CRT TV, that has component inputs, but it's only a regular 480i set, and it won't support any kind of progressive output.

So while I REALLY want to try this Pioneer DV-578A, I'm concerned that again I would be forced to use either the composite or s-video outputs.

Any help would be MOST appreciated.

Thanks,

Chris

[DaveInBerlinNJ]

Yes.

[cjtalbot]

Thanks Dave,

So you've hooked this box up to a regular TV via component out/inputs and it's worked fine?

[A/Vspec]

But will the DV-588 have bass management

[DaveInBerlinNJ]

Originally posted by cjtalbot
Thanks Dave,

So you've hooked this box up to a regular TV via component out/inputs and it's worked fine?

No, but I do own one, and I read the manual. You absolutely can output 480i via component.

Here's a link to the manual (pdf):
http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/Manuals/130/130DV578AS.PDF

How to toggle progressive on/off is described on page 13.
Video setting descriptions are given on page 36. It clearly shows interlaced and progressive for component output.

[CCarncross]

YOu have to turn progressive on or off in the setup menu , so the component outputs can be used on an interlaced or progressive capable tv.

[Yung]

Pioneer recently announced the follow up to the DV-578A-S. The DV-588A-S will supposedly be available in April 2005 and has DivX support.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/press/release/detail/0,,2076_4313_191756422,00.html

[blackmax2k1]

Already posted, check page 10.

[Foxbat121]

Sounds like DV588A = DV578A + Divx firmware update.

[Yung]

Originally posted by blackmax2k1
Already posted, check page 10.

Whoops! I'm slow today.

[Wide Glide]

Purchased the DV-578-A from Future Shop in Canada for 144.98 +tax,and extended warranty. Total 201.22.
Anthem D-1 in Analogue DSP does DVD-A,and SACD,also plays DVD+R.
My Panasonic RP-56 does not play DVD+R ,DVD-R, but displays a much
better picture with store bought DVD's.

WIDE GLIDE

[badabing]

If you guys don't already know.....

November 2004 builds of the DV-578a have 2.05 firmware, as opposed to the June/July 1.44.

You can track more on this at the end of my post below;

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4913128#post4913128

[tjk]

Originally posted by DaveInBerlinNJ
And how old is this thread??
It's so old, that I now own the 578a TJK posted about earlier in this thread (and have for over a month now). Hope he's enjoying his new Denon!

Anyway, just wanted to chime in. My 578a is a terrific little player

Hey Dave. Thought I'd check in on this "old" thread - glad to hear you are enjoying the 578a. It's amazing what that player does for the price.

Love the Denon. Upconverted video is awesome, and great sound. Of course you could by 10 578's for the price.:rolleyes:

[MandM]

When oh when will Pioneer release a black model to match the rest of my system? The "S" in DV-588A-S is not a good sign. How many silver models are the gonna release year after year?!?!

Mike

[CCarncross]

No kidding Mike, I'm half tempted to try and use the black cover from my older 363 in its place on my 563A. I believe all the buttons are identical and the cases are the same size, it might work.

[bw191]

Originally posted by Foxbat121
Sounds like DV588A = DV578A + Divx firmware update.
So, how long before we get this hacked update for our 578's? :)

[DigiPete]

Hi folks,

If your unit is still within warrantee you may be able to get the firmware updated in the US

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/article/0,,2076_3143_80037,00.html

Worth a shot anyway...

Cheers
DigiPete

[bw191]

Pioneer will provide you the address for delivery of the DVD Player or Recorder, transportation prepaid. Pioneer will pay for the cost of returning the upgraded DVD Player or Recorder to you within the United States or Canada.

Thanks, but no thanks.

Gimme a file to download.

[DigiPete]

bw191,

You may be in for a looong wait.... :)

It does not look like Pioneer offers their firmware over the net.

[bw191]

Confirmed.
I just emailed them to (politely) ask if they could.

Futile effort probably. But maybe if everyone wrote them they would consider it:
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/contact/us/0,,2076_4351,00.html?fpSiteId=2076

[bw191]

from customer.support@pioneerservice.com

"RE:Warranty and Service Issues

Thank you for your suggestions which will be forwarded to the corporate
office for consideration.

Thank You,
Customer Service"

[Veritas]

bw191,
That kind of "canned" corporate response, really gives one a true "warm and fuzzy" feeling doesn't it! And I like Pioneer products...

Cheers

[bw191]

Yeah, it was good to hear from Mr. Service.

It was more than I expected, actually.

[CCarncross]

IMHO, the number of problems generated by complete morons trying to upgrade their own firmware and screwing it up, is much higher and costs companies much more money than actually doing the warranty based firmware upgrades...

If Pioneer does not want to offer the firmware updates for DIY'ers, more power to them. If someone doesnt want to send it in, thats just tough....

If you dont like the policies, you buy from a competitor.

[bruman]

you have to be pretty dum to screw up a firmware cd upgrade.

lol

[bw191]

Um, wow.

I thought most companies welcomed suggestions from their customers.

Sorry if it offended anyone.

(Previous posts edited to remove any unintended adversarial tone.)

[Veritas]

A FW upgrade should be as simple inserting the FW disc correctly in the player followed by an autoinstall routine...maybe also turn off/on the unit to complete if necessary.

If a manufacturer doesn't create/distribute "autoupgrade" FW discs for their equipment to correct known problems; it's because they simply choose not to...probably mostly due to liability concerns, or perhaps just due to poor business practices.

But, corporations should actively seek out, and address, constructive feedback on their products. If consumers feel the corporation turns a deaf ear to their input, then yes, you simply vote with your dollars in your future purchases. Its a two way street...

[Wesley Hester]

I need to bring this thread back to life.

Pioneer introduced their DV-588A-S at CES and it is planned for release in April for $199 US.

Basically, its now in league with the 575A (European model) that was released last year along with the 578A (US/Canada) by offering DivX and WMA support.

I'm glad I waited and held on to my 563A a little longer because I liked the 575A more than the 578A and now I get it in the 588A with NTSC and a US warranty.

http://www.weblogsinc.com/common/images/8658888454588534.JPG?0.4561287020343936

[Wesley Hester]

bump for DV-563A and DV-578 owners to chime in.

[yesongs]

My 578a can not seem to play SACD's that have a "count down" before a track begins.

It basically just skips the "negative" section, and jumps right to the next track.

I called tech support, and they indicated that it is a bit of a design flaw, and said there was not a fix.

Is this correct?

Is there anything that can be done?

There is one CD that I have that has a track that is about 20 seconds long and "counts down" - the player just skips it :(

Any help would be appreciated,

Eddie

[CCarncross]

So we dont have to guess, can you just give us the cd title please? That way others might be able to confirm your findings...

[yesongs]

It is a CD by NEKTAR, the title is "Live in NY".

I have see this on other CD's as well though - the player seemingly does not have the ability to count down.

Eddie

[DigiPete]

Originally posted by Veritas
A FW upgrade should be as simple inserting the FW disc correctly in the player followed by an autoinstall routine...maybe also turn off/on the unit to complete if necessary.

If a manufacturer doesn't create/distribute "autoupgrade" FW discs for their equipment to correct known problems; it's because they simply choose not to...probably mostly due to liability concerns, or perhaps just due to poor business practices.

But, corporations should actively seek out, and address, constructive feedback on their products. If consumers feel the corporation turns a deaf ear to their input, then yes, you simply vote with your dollars in your future purchases. Its a two way street...

There is one other thing to consider: by releasing firmware in the public domain these companies are taking chance, because they likely consider these firmwares as proprietary, and they probably represent a significant investment on their part in terms of development $$. This opens the risk that competitors or others, now can reverse-engineer the firmware and get whatever technology is in there for essentially free.

[CCarncross]

Originally posted by Wesley Hester
bump for DV-563A and DV-578 owners to chime in.

My DV-563A is just over a month old now. I looked around and found one new in box, never opened.
:)

I wanted the 563 over teh 578 due to the handling of SACD and not wanting that DSD-PCM downconversion step. The supposed video quality improvements in the 578 do me no good since I still use (granted a good one) a 4:3 SD 35" Mits tube tv....no progessive scan, no anamorphic squeeze, just one of the best straight analog tube pictures you could get in its day.. WHen I have the money to buy an HDTV in the near future, I'll probably pick up the then current equivalent of either the Denon 2910, or 3910...

[bruman]

what are you waiting for dude? HDTV's are so reasonably priced now.

[DigiPete]

Originally posted by bruman
what are you waiting for dude? HDTV's are so reasonably priced now.

Ahhhh... what is reasonable to one man maybe out of reach for another man...

[MattV]

Hi

I have a question.

Unfortunately, it seems that I am several months too late to find/buy a 563A in my area.
My choice is between the 275A and the 578A.
Since the tv this player will be played back on is a Sony Trinitron KV-20M42 (i.e. a tv that doesn't do progressive scan) and the sound would be played through the tv's speakers, it seems like the 275A will handle everything I need.
But there is a feature that is important to me, and I don't know if the 275A supports it: PAL --> NTSC conversion.
I read through comments at videohelp.com for the 275A (http://www.videohelp.com/dvdplayers.php?DVDnameid=4101&Search=Search&#comments) and 578A (http://www.videohelp.com/dvdplayers.php?DVDname=578A&Search=Search&country=&orderby=Name&hits=25).
Each reviewer submitting a comment can list what feature the player supports, and several reviewers for the 275A have "Multisystem PAL/NTSC Convert" listed as a feature; and one person mentions this in his review (http://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=215904) of a DV-270.
But it would make me feel better if someone could confirm whether the 275A can handle PAL --> NTSC conversion.

[CCarncross]

MattV, if you are connecting this player to a SD non-progressive tv only, no HT setup etc..., and you want somethin that does PAL---NTSC, I recommend you look at players like the Cyberhome CH-3XX series which can also be made region-free easily. They are cheap, and do everything you want. I think the Phillips 642 also does the PAL/NTSC thing as well. It seems silly for you to buy a universal player like a 563/578/588 when you are only connecting it to tv speakers...especially since the Pioneers CANNOT be made region-free easily. They can be modded, but its not just push a few buttons on teh remote type of thing.

[MattV]

It seems silly for you to buy a universal player like a 563/578/588 when you are only connecting it to tv speakers...especially since the Pioneers CANNOT be made region-free easily.Hi
Thank you for the reply.
I probably should have elaborated a little bit more in earlier reply. I was trying to keep the length brief because sometimes I can be on the verbose side and wonder if that has driven people away from replying.
I have a CH-500 that will play multi-region and convert PAL --> NTSC, but it won't play back DVD-Rs without locking up after about a minute or two.

I thought it would be handy if the player I get would be able to handle any PAL DVD-Rs that I might record in the future. I had very briefly looked up at videohelp.com what it would take (using a computer and the right software) to convert PAL to NTSC before recording that content to a DVD-R, and it sounded like an involved enough and time-consuming process that I thought it would be far easier to just simply record the PAL content to DVD-R and then just have a dvd player that's capable of both playing DVD-R and converting that PAL to NTSC.

So that is why I am wanting to verify which of the 275A and 578A can convert PAL to NTSC.

[DigiPete]

MattV,

My 578A can play dvd-r although ahs trouble reading them if I burn them at 8x, but reads them OK if burned at 4x(now why this is, I have no idea, could be the media, the burner or the 578a).

It also plays PAL ok on my NTSC set.

Cheers,
DigiPete

[MattV]

My 578A can play dvd-r although ahs trouble reading them if I burn them at 8x, but reads them OK if burned at 4x(now why this is, I have no idea, could be the media, the burner or the 578a).

It also plays PAL ok on my NTSC set.
Thank you for the help and for the confirmation on playback, DigiPete.
Out of curiousity, since I've read at videohelp where people will try burning a disc at a speed faster than the rating on the box, is this something you had tried ? What brand was the disc ?
I have a few PAL VCDs (which I believe are PAL since they would play back slightly squished on an Apex 600a which didn't correctly convert PAL to NTSC) and was thinking that, for the 275, I could test its ability at the store with these.

[DigiPete]

Originally posted by MattV
Thank you for the help and for the confirmation on playback, DigiPete.
Out of curiousity, since I've read at videohelp where people will try burning a disc at a speed faster than the rating on the box, is this something you had tried ? What brand was the disc ?
I have a few PAL VCDs (which I believe are PAL since they would play back slightly squished on an Apex 600a which didn't correctly convert PAL to NTSC) and was thinking that, for the 275, I could test its ability at the store with these.

I am using Ridata(Ritek) 8x single layer DVD-Rs. At 8x the Pio was having some trouble with them, but my Denon 3910 was not. At 4x they worked ok on the Pio.

Don't know anything about VCDs. Region 0 Pal DVDs seem to work ok.

[Alaska Wolf]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DigiPete
[B]I am using Ridata(Ritek) 8x single layer DVD-Rs. At 8x the Pio was having some trouble with them, but my Denon 3910 was not. At 4x they worked ok on the Pio.

I have had no coasters at all with my 578 and my NEC2500A. All burned at 8X except for the DL ones. ARe you using Nero? I have a mixture of Ritek, Verbatim, Memorex, and Fuji.

Have you ever been over to Club CDfreaks? http://club.cdfreaks.com/

Very knowledgeable forum.

Wolf

[NightHawk]

Originally posted by CCarncross
[B]I wanted the 563 over teh 578 due to the handling of SACD and not wanting that DSD-PCM downconversion step. B]

Can anyone elaborate on this technically? Are we certain this true and what would be the point. If the DSD has been decoded, as it must, conversion to a standard PCM waveform seems an extra uncessary step not likely to save anything.

[Foxbat121]

Originally posted by NightHawk
Can anyone elaborate on this technically? Are we certain this true and what would be the point. If the DSD has been decoded, as it must, conversion to a standard PCM waveform seems an extra uncessary step not likely to save anything.

Yes it does save something: the bass management. When DSD is converted to PCM, it can share the same circuitary and software as DVD-A for processing and bass management.

And all these DSD->PCM conversion talks come from a single report from one person who hacked the player.

Personally, if you're an audiophile, 578a is not your type. If you're not, you probably won't tell the difference between DSD and PCM.

[sawyer1370]

OK, I just purchased a Pioneer avx-1014, and will arrive next week. I want to replace my old Panasonic DVD player. I want the SACD and the DVD-A, since I love the DTS audio dvd's I have.

I have a 3 year old Phillips/Magnivoix TV, so up-converting isn't an issue. I don't believe i'll have the $$$ to get my choice DLP TV this year at least.

I'm concerned given all the comments about issues with SACD with this player. It seems like even the players much more expensive have issues. Is it worth me buying this player, should I wait for the new 588 or what?

[MattV]

I thought I'd pass this along in case this might be helpful to anyone else down the line.
I located a region-free PAL dvd of some tv series (so the aspect ratio was 4:3) and brought it into an Ultimate Electronics (which is oddly the only chain down here that sells Pioneer dvd players). The Pioneer 275 played it just fine and didn't appear to vertically squish it like my Apex 600a would (which didn't correctly convert PAL to NTSC). So I figure it's safe to assume it'll handle any region-free PAL DVD/DVD-R, and that's what I will go ahead and buy.
But just for the heck of it, I emailed Pioneerusa.com to summarizing my findings and what has been said here about the 275 and 578A and PAL playback, and I said to them that I was wondering if they could confirm that the 275 would correctly/accurately convert PAL to NTSC.
The reply made me wonder if the person bothered to read the whole email or bothered to read it carefully.
"Pioneer USA does not provide DVD players that are multi region or Pal playback capabilities, the DV578A is NTSC only, the DV-275 is an overseas model and is not handle by Pioneer USA."

[Foxbat121]

Do you really expect the guy sitting at India replying your email know what you're talking about? :D

578a can correctly display region free PAL DVDs. But the DVDs I have show some lip sync problems. I can't determine whether it is the player or the DVD itself (most of these DVDs are mastered poorly).

[egore]

What is the downside of a player not producing blacker than black? I know that blacker than black helps in setting black level using test patterns but what difference would it make in movie watching?

[PolarWeasel]

My DV-578a plays the Eagles' Hotel California DVD-A with serious distortion (a "ripping" sound on all channels) over the analog outputs if I set my front speakers to "large" in the DV-578a speaker setup menu (all other speakers are "small").

If I set the front speakers to "small" as well, the distortion disappears.

I will be contacting Pioneer about this, but who knows what good that will do.

I'm not sure what firmware revision I have; I'm sure someone on these forums has posted instructions for determining it.

-PolarWeasel