Denon AVR-3805 Zone 2 setup guide

[Descolada]

Hi all,

I posted this to the Pseudo-Official 3805 thread, but thought it might warrant its own thread as well...

I thought I'd try to post a quick Denon 3805 Zone 2 setup guide in the hopes that it might help someone out - I've seen most of this posted here and there, but not all together in one place. Note that in my case I have a 5.1 setup in my main listening room, and am driving a pair of patio speakers in Zone 2 via speaker-level outputs, as opposed to the pre-amp outs, so that I don't need a separate amplifier.

1. Connect the speaker pair to be used in Zone 2 to the Surround Back speaker terminals (should be to the far right when looking at the back of the 3805).

2. For any source that you wish to hear in Zone 2, connect L/R analog audio cables between the source and the appropriate inputs on the receiver, as digital audio will not be passed to Zone 2 or 3.

3. In System Setup, go into Speaker Setup, select Speaker Configuration, and set Surround Back speakers to "None".

4. Back in the main System Setup menu, go into Option Setup and select Power Amp Assignment, and set to Zone 2.

5. Select "Zone 2" from the list of sources towards the top of the remote, and then select "source on" at the very top of the pad to "turn on" Zone 2.

6. Select an active Zone 2 source from either the front panel or the remote (on the remote, select the Zone 2 component button, then choose the source below).

7. Here's the part that had me pulling my hair out - you MUST turn up the volume from the remote with the Zone 2 component selected, as it defaults to -70 dB.

According to a newsgroup post I finally dug up, the Zone 2 volume can't be set from the front panel, you must use the remote. I had done everything else correctly and still didn't get anything out of my Zone 2 speakers until I performed step 7 above. I have a separate volume control on my patio, so I set the Zone 2 volume to 0 dB via the remote, then adjust my outside volume control to the proper volume (EDIT - the 3805 will actually send a fixed volume level to Zone 2 even when using the speaker outs - details in posts below).

I had thought that my problem might have been related to volume level, but I noticed that once you assign the power amp to Zone 2, the Zone 2 volume level option disappears from the list, as this seems to apply to the pre-amp/low-level outs rather than the speaker terminals.

Hope this helps someone, please feel free to add or correct if necessary - as has been stated many times already, the Denon manual occassionally leaves something to be desired, and it would have been nice to find a step-by-step Zone 2 setup section to avoid this type of frustration... so if I left anything out or got something wrong please let me know...

Descolada

[EDIT] Inserted instructions to "turn on" Zone 2, which is required to avoid the "Zone 2 No Power" message that ramosma ran into several posts down... thanks tvromero for figuring this out!

[Don O'Brien]

This exact problem has been present in prior generations of there products. IMHO, they should give you the choice to allow a fixed level output with use of the internal amplifiers, but they only allow this with use of an external amplifier. This create a problem with many installations where you have interactive volume controls.

[BobBart]

Descolada,
Good info. What kind of seperate volume control are you using? It would be nice to adjust the volume in another location.

[Descolada]

Originally posted by BobBart
What kind of seperate volume control are you using? It would be nice to adjust the volume in another location.

It's a Niles, just their basic volume control - not sure of the model number, looking at their website it might be the VCS100:

Niles Audio - volume controls (http://www.nilesaudio.com/products/hpsvc.html)

I've heard Russound makes good ones, too. I think I paid about $30 for my Niles, though they might retail for a bit more than that - got a deal from a friend of a friend at a local HT shop...

[premierht]

For more complicated whole house audio installs, it makes sense to ue an additional two channel amp just so you can have the volume fixed for zone two. I setup a house with 8 zones all powered from the zone 2 rca ouptut for a 3803 to a 100WPC adcom amp. Adcom then feeds an impedance matched speaker splitter which then feeds 8 volume controls in each room which then goes to the speakers.

This actually works very well and with a good learning remote, is fully automated with single button presses. My clients are still amazed that they can watch TV in the main room and listen to a cd in the rest of the house. (some people are easily impressed)

[Sam1Cohen]

Good guide and good information on the remote volume part. I am going to be doing this once I move so I can have music from my Ipod everywhere in my house. The only thing I would mention is that Niles also makes auto muting volume controls that you can set to defualt to MUTE = ON so when you first power it up it will not matter if you forgot to turn down the volume last time on your speakers or receiver.

[hoog23]

I am doing something similiar with the niles intellipad and one of their ir routing blocks - I think it will work out for me.

[rhyme]

I just had my 3805 installed today. I'm kind of a rookie when it comes to the advanced features of the unit so please forgive me.

I have a few questions I was hoping a seasoned 3805 owner could help with:

1) I have a number of devices that send out digital signal. I have a multizone setup. I informed the installer that the denon would not send out digital signal to the second zone and we would need to install analog audio cables. He said we would have to put them on a different source than the original. For example, I have an audiotron that sends through fibre optic to the CD source. Then he configured the analog to go to the cdr/tape source. He said this is the only way to get it to work to the second zone if I wanted to watch DVD in the main zone. Something about this doesn't seem to right to me... is he correct?

2) He could not get the playstation 2 to display video through component
(video 2). I verified that it was working correctly by plugging it directly into the TV. He suggested that the playstation was broken and when was the last time I used it... NOPE! In any case, he was going to call "tech support" to see what could be doing wrong.. any ideas? The DVD which is hooked up to the component (video 1) seemed to work fine. Is it possible that the video switching needs to be enabled... We verified that Video 1 was mapped to DVD and the playstation 2 was mapped to Video 2.

Any help would be appreciated...

[Descolada]

Originally posted by rhyme
I just had my 3805 installed today. I'm kind of a rookie when it comes to the advanced features of the unit so please forgive me.

I have a few questions I was hoping a seasoned 3805 owner could help with:

1) I have a number of devices that send out digital signal. I have a multizone setup. I informed the installer that the denon would not send out digital signal to the second zone and we would need to install analog audio cables. He said we would have to put them on a different source than the original. For example, I have an audiotron that sends through fibre optic to the CD source. Then he configured the analog to go to the cdr/tape source. He said this is the only way to get it to work to the second zone if I wanted to watch DVD in the main zone. Something about this doesn't seem to right to me... is he correct?

2) He could not get the playstation 2 to display video through component
(video 2). I verified that it was working correctly by plugging it directly into the TV. He suggested that the playstation was broken and when was the last time I used it... NOPE! In any case, he was going to call "tech support" to see what could be doing wrong.. any ideas? The DVD which is hooked up to the component (video 1) seemed to work fine. Is it possible that the video switching needs to be enabled... We verified that Video 1 was mapped to DVD and the playstation 2 was mapped to Video 2.

Any help would be appreciated...


rhyme,

Well, I'm hardly seasoned since I've only had my 3805 for about 4 days... with that in mind:

1. Well, that's just plain wrong... :) I have digital inputs from all of my sources, and analog cables hooked up as well to the very same source inputs, and my zone 2 is working just fine. In fact, if you didn't do it that way, you wouldn't have the option of listening in zone 2 to whatever source is playing in the main zone without specifically selecting it. If you match up the inputs, you can set zone 2 to "Source" via the front panel, and you get the same thing in both zones no matter what specific source is selected for the main zone.

2. Don't think I'd be any help on this one, since I'm not currently using component switching, so maybe someone else can chime in on this. If the component video assignments are correct, you might double-check the Video Input Mode setting under Input Setup in the menu... these should default to Auto for all inputs, but it's possible they might have gotten changed during setup. Also, I'm not sure if this is what you said you had already verified, but make sure you're selecting whatever source (such as DBS) that you have mapped to Video 2 under the Component In Assign menu... again, sorry if this isn't any help, I have yet to play with this feature...

Descolada

[premierht]

1. You can do it either way as pointed out by Descolada. In the case of a DVD player when I know the customer wants zone two for music, I will set the digital input in the Denon to the DVD input, then the analog inputs into the cd input. This way, the user selects cd when they want to listen to a cd. Learning and programmable remotes make this a breeze. Dont forget that lots of people like different sources for the zone 2 so the house can have a cd and the theater can be watching a movie. It is easy to set zone two for whatever source you want with the remote.

2. Start troubleshooting by unplugging the dvd component cables from the denon (since you know that input works) and plug in the playstation into that input. If it works then you know its not the playstation or the denon switching capability. But I have a feeling you have component 2 input assigned wrong or something like that.

Good luck.

[rhyme]

Update on 2: We simply changed the component 2 input to auto instead of "component" and just like that we had picture from the playstation 2. What is odd is that it really was hooked up by component. You would expect this to work.

Thanks for your help.

[Descolada]

Originally posted by ejfiii
For more complicated whole house audio installs, it makes sense to ue an additional two channel amp just so you can have the volume fixed for zone two.

ejfii,

I'll have to double-check to make sure, but it seems to me that you can get fixed volume to zone 2 via the speaker-level outs with the 3805... although not with the 8-zone setup that you describe, of course...

I set the zone 2 volume at 0dB with the remote, and no matter what the volume level in the main zone, I seem to have the same output at my volume control in zone 2. So the volume setting does seem to be fixed, and not relative to the main zone volume.

I'll try to verify when I get a chance...

Descolada

[premierht]

This may be true for the 3805, but it is not for the 3803. That would be cool if it is. But just to clarify, can you verify that you get a fixed volume output out of the zone two speaker terminals on the 3805, not the zone 2 rca preouts?

I re-read your post and it seems like you already proved that you can. This is great news. Now the question is if the 3805 internal amp could power an 8 zone whole house setup sufficiently? I tend to think it would struggle in this capacity which is the second and other main reason we went with a dedicated amp for zone 2. I have read reports that the 3805 outputs something like 55watts when all channels are driven. 55/16 speakers means less than 3.5 watts per speaker. Might be tough if true.

Thanks.

[Descolada]

Sorry, just edited my post to clarify that... yes, this is out of the speaker terminals rather than the preouts.

Need to wait for my wife to wake up before I can confirm with wide volume ranges, though... :)

[Descolada]

Okay, found a way to confirm without waking the wife... with zone 2 using the speaker-level outs, and zone 2 volume set to 0 dB via the remote, I set the main zone volume all the way down to -80 dB, and I still had full volume range at the volume control in zone 2.

I would tend to agree that the dedicated zone 2 amp would be required (or at the very least, preferred) in your 8-zone configuration, but it is definitely nice to not have to worry about fiddling with 2 separate volume controls in my application... yet another reason to be satisfied with my purchase!

Now if the 3805 only had input level trims... :)

[premierht]

Thats fantastic. Perfect for a smaller whole hose setup with a few speaers.

Thanks.

[ramosma]

Descolada (or anyone else who can advise)

I followed your advice and was tearing my hair out because I couldn't get the Zone 2 to work on the 3805.

I have 2 speakers hooked up to the surround back/multi speaker connections and set the power amp assignment to zone 2. I keep getting a Zone 2 No Power message when I would turn the volume up on Zone 2 (using the remote).

However if I switch the power amp assignment to zone 3 it works properly and I get sound out of the speakers.

Am I doing something wrong? Are the pre outs defined as Zone 2 and the speaker terminals defined as Zone 3. Its not really clear as mud Denon manual.

Using the speakers for Zone 3 is fine with me but I am just trying to understand the difference.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

[Descolada]

ramosma,

I'm basically using the same setup that you're trying to (speakers hooked to the surround back terminals rather than the preouts, set to zone 2) and mine works fine - in all of my stumbling around, I've never come across the "Zone 2 No Power" message that you're getting. So based on my setup the power amp should be assignable to either Zone 2 or Zone 3 for use with the speaker outs, and if Zone 3 is working for you, that would seem to imply that all other settings are correct - so that's quite the head-scratcher.

The manual is charmingly (yet somehow annoyingly) inconsistent, so all I can think of are a few stabs in the dark:

1. The Zone 2 volume level should automatically be set to Variable if Zone 2 is selected in the Power Amp Assign menu... but you might try setting the power amp back to the surround backs, then changing the fixed Zone 2 volume level to 0 dB, then re-assigning the power amp to Zone 2, just in case that has any effect - I seem to recall playing with this setting when I was trying to get it to work.

2. I think that if certain audio modes are selected (such as Pure Direct), you might not get anything output to Zone 2 - not sure about this, though. When you switched to Zone 3 and got it to work, was that the only change? In other words, was a source already playing, and all you did was switch the power amp assignment to zone 3 then you got sound?

3. I'm assuming your surround back speakers are set to None in the speaker config menu (since this would probably affect Zone 3 as well)... but that's the only other thing I can come up with to check at the moment.

I'll try to play around a little to see if I can duplicate your problem...

[EDIT]

Just thought of something else you might check related to #1 above - when the power amp is assigned to Zone 2, the "Zone 2 volume level" entry in the Option Setup menu should no longer be selectable (I think it's actually removed from the menu) - you might make sure this is the case after selecting Zone 2 as a test to make sure the setting "stuck"...

[tvromero]

Originally posted by ramosma
Descolada (or anyone else who can advise)

I keep getting a Zone 2 No Power message when I would turn the volume up on Zone 2 (using the remote).



I just figured this out and it is silly. You need to select "Zone 2" from the remote sources and then hit the "source on" from the top of the pad and this turns zone2.

-Tim

[Descolada]

Thanks, Tim... that was bugging me. I edited the original post to include this information, let me know if it makes sense the way it's worded...

rasmosma,

My apologies, looks like I inadvertently left out this step - please let me know if you still have any problems.

Descolada

[jbird04]

Has anyone noticed that their zone2 L & R are reversed on the speaker terminals? I.E: L = R and R = L

This is the case on mine. If you 'power amp assign' to zone3 instead this is no longer a problem.

Just thought I would bring it up to make sure everyone's zone2 setup is kosher. Cheers,

[Descolada]

Interesting... thanks for the heads up. Thought I had read something about this in another thread, but never got around to checking.

When I'm listening to my zone 2 speakers on my patio, I'm actually sitting underneath them, with my back to the wall they're mounted on, so if anything I guess this is arguably a benefit in my case... so, it's not a bug, it's a feature!

:)

[jbird04]

No problem. It is rather interesting and odd. Why is zone2 reversed when zone3 isn't... Oh well, just use zone3 instead! And in your special case, nevermind!! :D

[poolne1]

Okay,

Please be patient with me. I am helping friends who have the 3805. I help them set it up. So, I can't really experiment without spending a lot of time over at their place. Hey, they are nice people, but I'm sure they are tiring of me a bit.

Their configuration is the same as Descolada. They have 5.1 inside and two speakers on their patio. I hooked up the two patio speakers using the speaker outputs for Zone 2 or surround B (not the pre-amp outputs, because they don't have a separate amp/receiver for the patio). Their DVD and CD are connected to their Denon through digital inputs. I know that, as it's currently configured, the Denon simply "thinks" that they have 7.1 in the main zone. Whatever source is playing inside is also playing outside. And, it is very difficult to turn the sound down inside and up outside, or vice versa.

If I am reading this thread correctly, they can watch and listen (through 5.1 digital) to a DVD inside and, at the same time, listen to 2.0 analog CD outside, without needing a separate amp. Is this correct? Further, they can separately control the volume inside and outside for the same source if muti-zone is set up. Is this correct?

BTW, they have a programmable, RF remote (the MX-800). Any suggestions on separately controlling zones with a programmable remote are most certainly welcome.

Thank you.

Tom

[Descolada]

Tom,

Yes, you're reading this correctly... as long as analog cables are connected from any of the sources they want to listen to outside to the Denon, and Zone 2 is properly set up, they can listen to two different sources in each zone, getting 5.1 digital in the main zone for a compatible source with a digital audio connection, and analog stereo for the outside source.

To me, one of the benefits of the Denon not passing digital audio to the second zone is that 5.1 sources are automatically downmixed to stereo (well, probably not technically downmixed, but the stereo signal is passed instead of the 5.1 signals), which allows you to get the full range of audio out of the 2 speakers in zone 2 - if I'm understanding your friends' current setup correctly, they're only hearing the surround back speaker portion of the 7.1 source out on the patio, which means they're not getting any audio sent to the center or main channels, making it less than ideal for listening from the patio.

As you noted, the volume can be set differently for inside vs. outside, so cranking up the volume on a movie inside would have no effect on a CD source playing outside. Without a separate analog volume control for the outside speakers, you'd just select Zone 2 on the remote and adjust the volume with the regular volume buttons...

As far as using a separate learning remote, all you should need to do is select Zone 2 on the Denon remote, then learn the volume buttons to the new remote, or even set up Zone 2 as a separate source on the new remote and learn all of the applicable functions to it - I haven't tried this, but it seems like this should do the trick.

Not sure if that answered all of your questions... but I think the guide in the first post is pretty solid at this point, so if you follow all of the steps you should be able to get them set up in a matter of minutes.

Hope this is helpful - let me know if you have any other questions...

Descolada

[poolne1]

Descolada,

Thank you very much. I know my questions were a little naive.

Yes, my friends were only getting surround sound on their patio. I minimized the downside to this by setting their remote to change the Denon to 5ch/7ch when they turned on their outside speakers, but this setup is obviously not as good a setup as creating a zone 2.

Two final questions (I hope). First, do I need to connect the analog inputs to a different Denon input than the digital input? For example, to listen to CD outside and DVD inside, do I need to connect analog L/R from the CD player to the CD input on the Denon (which is already assigned to accept the digital input from the CD player) or must I select a different, as yet unused, analog input (such as VCR-2)? Put another way, do I connect both digital and analog cables to ONE input on the Denon or must I have TWO separate connections from a source to the Denon?

Second, and as a related question, my friends have a couple of devices that are analog only, namely, their VCR and their Stand-Alone Tivo. Do I need to run separate analog connections to an unused Denon input (in order to allow separate, inside and outside, control of these devices). Or, can I rely on the existing analog inputs into the Denon to allow the separate use of these devices inside and outside?

Thank you again,

Tom

[Descolada]

Tom,

Your questions weren't naive at all... it sounds like you already understand how this should work, and are basically just seeking clarification/confirmation...

You can (and should!) connect the analog cables to the same input on the Denon as the digital source - so for the CD player, run the digital and analog outputs of the player to the CD inputs on the Denon. This way you have the option of listening to the same source in both zones without having to select them independently for each zone, which I often do, especially with music. To do this, you would press the Zone2/3/Rec Select button on the left side of the Denon and use the Function dial to set the Zone 2 source to "Source" (I haven't figured out how to do this via the remote yet). If you want to listen to a different source outside in Zone 2, you can select it by pressing Zone 2 on the Denon remote, pressing Source if necessary to give you the source options, then selecting the source you want to listen to. Zone 2 on the remote basically acts like a different amp with the same inputs, which essentially it is.

And the existing analog inputs are just fine for analog-only sources, there's no need to run separate cables. You'll be able to listen to either the same source or a different source in Zone 2 with only one set of analog cables running from each source.

One thing I've noticed, at least with my DVD player (Zenith DVB318) - when playing a movie with the DTS soundtrack selected, I get no audio output in Zone 2 over the analog connections. I'm assuming this is because the analog outs are not active on the DVD player while the DTS bitstream is active, but I don't know if this occurs with other DVD players, or with other amps. No problems with Dolby Digital 5.1 soundtracks. This may or may not be the case in your friends' setup, but I thought I'd mention it since it might have you wondering if something's wrong with the multizone setup (as it did to me!)

Descolada

[MGS24]

Is there anyway to turn on Zone 2 from the 3805 itself? I used to do this on the 3803 but can't seem to do it on the 3805 without using the remote.

Thanks, Mike

[mhawker]

Instead of starting a new thread, I figured I'd bring this one back up to the top with my question. I have a 5ch setup with two patio speakers running off of Zone 2. Tuner, TV etc work fine and as expected, DVD/ CD's won't play since I have a digital input.

But, I also have 5.1ch inputs into EXT In from my DVD player so I can play SACD's. Anyone know if you can use that input to play CD's on the patio speakers through Zone 2? Or do I need to get a "y" connector or ?? to add a separate input to CD?

Thanks,

Mike

[Descolada]

Mike,

As far as I know, the only way to get a signal to zone 2 is through stereo RCA jacks... assuming your player has stereo outs you should be able to connect those in addition to the 5.1 cables so that the other zone can get the signal, but that would depend on the stereo outputs being active on your player when playing back SACDs...

[mhawker]

Thanks, Decolada.

I don't think my player (2200) has stereo outs as well as the 5.1 outs. Have to double check that one. My plan, if not, is to "y" off of the front L/R so that I can feed them into another input on the 3805. That's the only way I can see to have both.

Happy New Year.

[jzitron]

I would like to use Zone 2 and 3 on my Denon 3805 to listen to music output from my home theater PC, but my home theater PC has 2 digital outputs only and no analog output. I understand that Zone 2/3 can only output analog signals. Can anyone recommend a device to convert a digital signal to an analog signal?

Adding a sound card to the PC with an analog output does not seem to be a viable option because it would eliminate the functionality of the onboard Intel High Definition Audio in the PC. For example, the Intel HD Audio allows the PC to simultaneously play 2 different audio streams, and it supports all the Dolby technologies.

After looking far and wide, I found M-Audio's "Flying Cow" and "Super DAC 2496" which appear to convert digital to analog signals, but I don't know anything about these products, and they don't seem to be built for home audio.

[IVB]

I just got a 3805 and 2 add'l speakers to use in an alternate room. Thank god I found this thread or else I'd think the plug-n-play method would work.

I've got an HTPC which runs Girder, also an MX-800. I could use either to control this.

Jzitron or anyone else:

Q1) Do you have Girder files or MX-800 files or any ideas as to how to use a single remote to make this all automated?

Q2) What things have people done to have the ability to control zone 2 from within zone 2 [i.e., several rooms over, not even remotely clear line of sight to the 3805, which is in a media server closet.]

[IVB]

Originally posted by jzitron
I would like to use Zone 2 and 3 on my Denon 3805 to listen to music output from my home theater PC, but my home theater PC has 2 digital outputs only and no analog output. I understand that Zone 2/3 can only output analog signals. Can anyone recommend a device to convert a digital signal to an analog signal?

Adding a sound card to the PC with an analog output does not seem to be a viable option because it would eliminate the functionality of the onboard Intel High Definition Audio in the PC. For example, the Intel HD Audio allows the PC to simultaneously play 2 different audio streams, and it supports all the Dolby technologies.

After looking far and wide, I found M-Audio's "Flying Cow" and "Super DAC 2496" which appear to convert digital to analog signals, but I don't know anything about these products, and they don't seem to be built for home audio.

BTW, just realized I know the answer to jzitron's question as I did it for my HTPC; I used the headphone out and got a 2.5MM->dual RCA connector, and it works just fine. It was a $3 answer that would be much simpler than his thoughts.

Thanks again to Descolada for providing this info as it just took me <60 seconds to fully setup my Zone2.

[mikemorel]

OK - plowed through most of the Psuedo 3805 thread as well as threads on other boards...Searched my brains out. Many posts touched on it, but not directly, and here looks like the best place to post.

Just purchased the 3805 last week - love it so far, but the manual was written by a Buddhist monk (maybe even Sylvester Stalone in Rambo III).

I want to set up a 5.1 system in the family room, a zone 2 (future) in the living room and a zone 3 (now) on the outside patio. Given that I'm renovating the family room now, including replacing the drywall and ceiling, it's forcing me to pay attention to wiring.
I don't need zone 2 and zone 3 operational at the same time, but would like to have the main zone running at the same time as either. The guys at Tweeter swore I didn't need to buy any additional amps to do zone 2 and zone 3, and other things I've read hinted that this is possible. I didn't buy the receiver at Tweeter.

The manual shows only examples of zone 2 and 3 operation with a seperate amp on one or the other. I understand this if I want zone 2 AND zone 3 operating simulataneously (it only has 7 amps) but can I switch the back surround amp to, say, the surround B speaker outs, which I am not using, to run zone 3? Use the preamp outs in some way?

I can get zone 2 OR 3 operational using the back surround speaker binding posts and toggling the amp power assigments. Not a big deal (thanks to this forum for the tip that it's analog only to zone 2 and 3).

If I can't reroute the amp, it looks like I am stuck with:

a) Running zone 2 (or 3 for that matter) off the back surround speaker out to an external speaker switcher and toggling A/B for each zone and not using the other third zone. I can go cheap with a manual switch it's not too elegant, but works, but doesn't use the multi-zone capability of the receiver. I don't think going the "whole house sound" Lutron/Niles route is one I want to travel down, as the renovation is going to set me back large $$$ as it is.

b) Connect both sets of speaker wires to the back surround speaker out posts and mount volume switches in each zone. That would give me some control in each zone, but these switches are pricy ($50-$80 each for the Niles) and I'm still not using the capability of the receiver.

c) Break down and buy an external amp. I know used stereo amps (or an extra recievers are cheap, but
c.1) don't want to complicate matters for the wife and kids - they'll have a tough time understanding all this as it is.
c.2) I'm stuffing all this gear in a (brand new WAF certified) credenza and have limited space in the center shelfs (17"W), side shelfs are 13"W, which doesn't work for standard gear and
c.3) I already shelled out for 5.1 Paradigms in the family room, the 3805 and some Rocket outdoor speakers; I come marching in with another receiver and/or amp and the wife will ask if I lost my mind. Not sure I'd blame her.

If the answer is c - any recommendations for a cheap, small width amp that can be hidden away and left on all the time (so I don't have to do switching)?

Sorry for the verbosity. Any help would be appreciated.

BTW - it's an awesome credenza, made by Stickley - pricey, but highly recommended for DLPs.

[IVB]

Same exact setup as me: Zone 1 is the HT, Zone 2 is the living room [but i'll have 6.1], Zone 3 will be the patio with 2 Onix rockets.
a) You can tell the 3805 to re-route the back surrounds to Zone 2 [or 3], and use the multi-zone of the receiver. I have my Zone2 operational right now using this route, no external amp [yet].
b) Out of my knowledge zone, but not my guess zone: You'd drop the overall impedance, not sure if to a fatal level.
c) I'm going down this route, and looking on eBay. I know the Paraound Zamp v.3 is $250 and 45Wx2, and is supposedly very decent. I did see a v.2 Zamp on eBay which is 30Wx2 for $149 starting that didn't sell.

[mikemorel]

You must have good taste, IVB. Don't know how you established a 6.1 zone 2, but, o.k.

Checked for the Parasound Zamp quick - not a lot of hits. Not exactly mass market, but I will keep looking. The small width means it will fit o.k. If the price is right, then maybe...

Still looking for an answer to the primary question; can the 3805 switch between zone 2 and zone 3 amplified output? If so, I reach zone nirvana, but I suspect not...If not, if those that are going the 3 zone route could let me know how you accomplished it.

[premierht]

How many times are you going to listen to three different sources in your three zones? Why not just use zone two output to drive both external zones via a good impedance matching speaker selector? Then use a RF remote to adjust volume in each zone.

[IVB]

Originally posted by ejfiii
How many times are you going to listen to three different sources in your three zones? Why not just use zone two output to drive both external zones via a good impedance matching speaker selector? Then use a RF remote to adjust volume in each zone.

If you're only going to have 2 speakers in zone 2 & 3, that would work. But, in my instance, I have more speakers in Zone2, so I need more power. As I need an external amp anyhow, may as well use the tri-zone capabilities of the receiver and have the surround back go to the patio.

Re:6.1 in Zone2; not necessarily good taste, but it's a 25x14' room, so it's too big for just 1 set of speakers. This way I can use on-wall/ceiling mounts, and put several throughout room for even sound distribution. Had just 2, sounded fine at one end, but waay too loud at other end.

Re:Zamp; no, not lots of hits, but my local dealer has tons of them. Apparently they're half-width amps, so you can put 2 side by side in a rack.

[mikemorel]

Ah, IVB, I get it now. I thought...Nevermind what I thought. Makes perfect sense for your big room. You are right, I don't need multiple speakers to fill the room.

EJFIII, I agree, I won't be running 3 source/3 zone at once. Way too complicated. That's why I was wondering if there was any way to switch between zone 2 and 3 using the Denon amp - I could easily live with two zones/2 source as long as I could switch the second zone.

I'm just trying to keep as much flexibility as possible. The idea of running everything with the 3805 (and my Harmony remote) appeals to me - and to the family if not too complicated. I may go the speaker selector route though. And if I need to mount anything in the wall, now is the time for me to do it...

Could you recommend a good inexpensive speaker selector?

[premierht]

Originally posted by IVB
Re:6.1 in Zone2; not necessarily good taste, but it's a 25x14' room, so it's too big for just 1 set of speakers. This way I can use on-wall/ceiling mounts, and put several throughout room for even sound distribution. Had just 2, sounded fine at one end, but waay too loud at other end.

You're going to put a 6.1 system into a big black hole room and then feed it stereo audio?

Mikemorel, Russound, Xantech, Sonance etc... all make fine speaker selectors. Just stay away from the cheapos at BB, CC and Rat shack. Even the $100 ones at BB are trash - I have burned up more than my fair share.

As for your kind of question - if I understand it right, yes, by utilizing the zone two output of the 3805 with the internal 6 and 7 channel amps you will have complete SEPARATE control over the source and volume for zone two as opposed to zone 1. Dont know crap about harmony (we do HTM and RTI) but I would imagine it would be simple with the Harmony too.

[mikemorel]

Yes, I will research speaker selectors (though I confess I've never used them). Also Looked a little deeper at the Zamp; width is good, and it has auto power on and selectable delay power off. Sounds trouble free...and TWO were just sold on Audiogon for $150.

I was hoping the Denon would allow for zone 2 and 3 operation without purchasing any additional equipment, but apparently that is not the case.

Thanks for the input.

[premierht]

It does Mike for one pair of speakers in a separate zone. No receiver offers more than that. A good speaker selector should cost less than a hundred bucks.

I sell a bunch of the Zamps and really like them. Great piece.

[IVB]

Originally posted by ejfiii
You're going to put a 6.1 system into a big black hole room and then feed it stereo audio?


It's not for movies, there's no TV in that room. It's for music.

[premierht]

Originally posted by IVB
It's not for movies, there's no TV in that room. It's for music.

I actually assumed that.

You are going to do three stereo pairs in one room with one subwoofer, right?

Let us know how it sounds when you're done.

[IVB]

Originally posted by ejfiii
I actually assumed that.

You are going to do three stereo pairs in one room with one subwoofer, right?

Let us know how it sounds when you're done.

Ok, now you've got me wondering about the wisdom of my plan; Is there something blindingly stupid that I'm about to do?

[premierht]

You're not my client, so I hesitate to get involved. I dont know the room, only the width and length. Dont even know the ceiling height.

I just think it would be weird to have stereo sound coming from all over. If you have a 5.1 or 7.1 theater now, put in a cd and run it in 5 or 7 channel stereo. Even if your room is small, it will give you an idea of what you are in for in the other room.

I just did a system in a room probably a little longer and wider than your room and we did a pair at each end about a third into the room. Ran them both off the same controller (using a speaker selector) and it sounds okay. Pretty good actually. But in my opinion, any time you put speakers in the ceiling it can only sound pretty good at best. No matter how you cut it its for background music only.

Good luck with your room.

[IVB]

Ok, that makes me feel better about my particular situation. The whole goal is background listening above the roar of my 3yr old & 1yr old, and sounds okay is about the goal.

I'm using Paradigm Cinema 100s, so pretty good is actually beyond my expectations; the speakers are decent, but at $250/pr, my expectations are not high. They match my goal, so it works.

Thanks for the counsel. I'll let you guys know how it all ends up.

[mbongiovi]

I know I am a couple of months late finding this post, but it is exactly what I was looking for. I have been trying to figure out how to run my 3 zone setup using my new 3805. So far what I have read is exactly how I believed it to work. My situation is a little differnt then the others that have been mentioned though. I am running a 7.1 setup in my main zone, so i am already using the back speaker outs. What I need to know if is, is there a way to run a zone two off of the back speaker outs as well. I would never be running the two zone at the same time. The second zone is to add two more speakers for music for parties. Can I accomplish this with somekind of speaker swithch, or do I need to diconnect the rear surround speakers in the main zone and connect the zone 2 speakers (and change the amp assignment) when I want to use them. As for zone 3, they are outdoor speakers and i am pretty sure from what I have read, that i will need to purchace another amp to run that zone playing a different source at the same time as running zone 1 & 2 on the same source. Any input would be much appreciated. thanks.