any info on new pioneer receivers?

[big boi]

i was at tweeter today continuing my endless hemming and hawing over what receiver i'm going to get. pretty much the pioneer elite vsx-55txi and denon 3805 are my main contenders. while speaking to a rep there he was saying how they don't stock much pio stuff and looked in the computer to see what a VSX-55TXi would run me if he could get it. he noted that the current pioneer receiver models are listed as "discontinued" and it looked like there were new models listed as replacements.

i have not turned up any info on google regarding these and have not gotten any results searching this forum. does anyone know anything about these? when they are due out? specs?

thanks,
billy ocean

[cburbs]

Don't know when they are due out but I believe my local contact said Pioneer 54tx and 56tx(i) would be my guess.
The only question is are they changing anythingn on them.

[Landroval]

I'm also interested in these, some new features on the 53 would be nice. Maybe they'll name them 63 and 65 as the previous were 5x and 4x.

Here's something: http://www.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2863
Hope they can contact Pioneer to know what's happening.

[big boi]

as cburbs said, they'll be called the 54tx and 56txi. between the denon 3805 and the current pioneer the only issue i have is the low video bandwidth on the pio. the 55txi has firewaire already. so if they just made the small change to up the video bandwidth some i'd buy one the day they hit the market.

i'm desperate for a new receiver. currently i have an 8yr old onkyo which only does PL I.

[ifor]

the new elite models will be the
vsx-52tx - 100x7, video upconversion, plIIx, mcacc, 48 bit motorola dsp,2 x 15000 uf caps

vsx-54tx - rs232, mr/ms feature w/ir in/out, transformer stabilizer, alum face
2 x 22000 uf caps, 100 mhz video switching, hi bit audio conversion

vsx-56txi - dual 48bit motorola dsp, 100 mhz video switching, hi bit audio conversion, ilink dvdaudio/sacd digital in,2 x 27000 uf caps, gold connectors, double layer chassis

vsx-59txi - no change

[big boi]

ifor, do you have any clue when we might see these? assuming your info is right i now know what receiver i'm getting . . . . . if i can wait that long :(

[ifor]

there coming in pieces with different dates

[F355]

is this the standard ilink, or pioneer's proprietary iLink?

[ifor]

standard i link , not that denon crap !! :-)

[Landroval]

Why people even talk about D-link as a version of ilink? It has nothing to do with it, the D-link uses a RJ-45 cable, while ilink is another name for firewire. Fortunately Pioneer uses the standard following firewire, that will be a major selling point against 3805.

Does anyone have info whether the new models will have an USB for pc-connection as the 55TXi did?

Also the size of the capacitors is interesting, the 56 have 2 x 27000µF, the 53, 54 and 55 have 2x22000µF and even the 52 2x15000µF. For example Yamaha V1400 uses 2x10000µF, V2400 2x15000µF and the Z9 2x28000µF. So the ~$1500 56i has almost the same capasitance than the $4500 Z9.

[big boi]

well hopefully they'll show up in a store soon. i move into my new place in early august and i want to walk in the door with the 56txi in my hands. nothing will make unpacking easier than some tunes coming through that thing.

let's just hope it's not gold and $7000 like the one linked from that audioholics forum thread ;)

[Sounds Simple]

ifor-

Do you know if they are bringing Advanced MCACC down to the 56TXi? Anything else trickle down from the 59TXi to the 56TXi?

I assume the whole line gets 100Mhz component video and up-conversion.

Bob

[DJ_JonnyV]

Originally posted by Sounds Simple
ifor-

Do you know if they are bringing Advanced MCACC down to the 56TXi? Anything else trickle down from the 59TXi to the 56TXi?

I assume the whole line gets 100Mhz component video and up-conversion.

Bob

Yeah, it be about dang time Pioneer figured that out. Their lacking in this area has been pretty pitiful if you ask me.

[Shane Martin]

I wonder if Pioneer will get THX certication for any of those like last years?

I assume the MSRP of the 56txi will be within the same price range as it was last year. Now if we could get details on the Denon 4805 I'd be set to decide.

[Sounds Simple]

Do a search on "pioneer elite 56txi" and you should get an idea of the likely pricing.

I am another trying to decide between Denon and Pioneer and, like many, I am starving for information about the to-be-released products.

Bob

[Sounds Simple]

Does anyone know if the Pioneer Elite receivers have the equivalent of Denon's Pure Direct mode?

Bob

[Landroval]

Originally posted by DJ_JonnyV
Yeah, it be about dang time Pioneer figured that out. Their lacking in this area has been pretty pitiful if you ask me.
You mean upconversion and 100MHz? Did you have that with 3803 or 2803? No.

[Yung]

Did a google search on "elite 56txi" and the 3 new Elite models show up on Kiefs. MSRP on the VSX-52TX is $1,000, VSX-54TX is $1,500 and VSX-56TXi is $1,700. The MSRP for the 54TX and 56TXi are the same as for the current 53TX and 55TXi models. No specs on any of the 3 new elite models are posted yet.

They also are showing the Pioneer VSX-1014TX-K which might be a rebadged elite model for $659. This player is due out in August. Looks like we got a lot of new models to choose from! I can't wait!

[big boi]

i was just at grammophone. i made the guy look this up since he said the 55 was the new model. they apparently have 4 on order so i'd think these may trickle into a few stores by the end of august.

also, he said the retail on the 56txi would be $1500.

[Sounds Simple]

big boi-

Did you get any information at all about any changes between the 55 and 56?

Bob

[big boi]

no, i got a lot of badmouthing of the pios. the guy seemed upset that pioneer's been switching their product lines and has had a ton of trouble getting them the 53s and 55s for the past year. he said he doesn't even try to sell the pios any more.

then i saw a marantz that was much cheaper, in the store, and sounded great. so i started talking about that unit. when i go back i'll see if he has specs on the pioneer.

[Landroval]

Originally posted by Yung
They also are showing the Pioneer VSX-1014TX-K which might be a rebadged elite model for $659.
This should be the same as the new 54.

[dmtremblay]

MSP is $1500 for the 56. It supposedly includes 2 i-link and same MCACC as 59txi...

[Sounds Simple]

Originally posted by dmtremblay
MSP is $1500 for the 56. It supposedly includes 2 i-link and same MCACC as 59txi...

Thanks for the info. These would be very welcome additions.

Bob

[Yung]

Originally posted by Landroval
This should be the same as the new 54.


Are you sure about this? Wouldn't they rebadge a prior year model instead of one of the new models due out?

According to Pioneer's press release issued in January, the VSX-1014 is the second receiver in the Pioneer product line to be THX certified. It also offers automatic MCACC and provides a five-band EQ for even more precise room calibration and tone equalization between speakers. The VSX-1014 is also equipped with advanced direct energy MOS FET amplification.

It sounds more like the 53TX with added PLIIx.

[Shane Martin]

I'm really intrigued by the 56TXI now. I can't wait to see the details on them.

[Sounds Simple]

Originally posted by Shane Martin
I'm really intrigued by the 56TXI now. I can't wait to see the details on them.

I'm really anxious too, Shane.

I had been leaning toward a Denon receiver but it seems that Pioneer is really pushing ahead to improve an already good product while Denon is still stumbling to resolve their DenonLink issues.

It seems that Denon may still have an edge in terms of THD, S/N and pre-amp section. Any thoughts on this? How do the Denon and Pioneer pieces compare in terms of isolating their audio and video circuitry?

It's great to have choices but it's going to be a tough call for me.

Bob

[Sounds Simple]

A bit O/T, but does anyone know what DACs Pioneer uses in the 55TXi and how they are configured? Are the same DACs used in the 59TXi?

Thanks for any input.

Bob

[Landroval]

Originally posted by Yung
It sounds more like the 53TX with added PLIIx.
Could be, we'll see later.

[coach]

it seems like just a little while ago that i got my 45tx. i have no complaints with it at all, but i miss the i-link and plIIx. it almost sends me to the point of going back to separates.

[graphicguy]

Originally posted by Sounds Simple
A bit O/T, but does anyone know what DACs Pioneer uses in the 55TXi and how they are configured? Are the same DACs used in the 59TXi?

Thanks for any input.

Bob

I can only speak for my 59 TXi, but it has 3 separate and copper shielded "chambers"....one for the analog section, one for the DACs and decoders and a 3rd for the radio section. Top, front, rear, bottom and sides are all heavily copper shielded, too. If memory serves, this unit weighs over 50 pounds.

[Stephen Hopkins]

I'm really hoping they include the video-upconversion in the 1014. If not I may go for the Elite 52TX. I'll be replacing a 43TX and am looking for the Auto-MCACC more than anything. I'm also considering a Denon 3805, 2805 + 5ch amp, or maybe living without any kind of room-eq and getting a HK 7200.

[Scott_R_K]

I too got recent confirmation about the 56TXi and am anxiously looking for info and specs .

I'm also hoping that Pioneer will release some 57 , 56 , 55AVi DVD players . The 59AVi is great but a lot of overkill . I mean what is the point of having a DVI output capable of 480i AND a 14-bit 216Mhz Video DAC all in the same box ? If you connect using DVI , the Video DAC's will just gather dust and if you connect using one of the Analog outputs , why bother with the DVI capable unit ?

Just my 2-cents worth...:rolleyes:

Scott...............................

[DJ_JonnyV]

Originally posted by Landroval
You mean upconversion and 100MHz? Did you have that with 3803 or 2803? No.

Easy, there tiger, no need to get snappy with me. Yes, I do mean upconversion and 100MHz. No, I do not have a 3803 or 2803. Yes, I do have an Elite 45TX. Yes, the 3803 does have video upconversion to component. Any more questions?

[Landroval]

Sorry, you're rigth. Also the older Yamahas had upconversion so Pioneer has somewhat been tailing the others with this feature.

[GRCRYSTYK]

Sounds Simple,...There is a thread thread tittled, "Which would you choose 59TXI or MC-8", in which Gordon, who is intimate with Pioneer's has listed a ton of good info. It's a killer thread, and you will have to do some searching, but I know he talks about the DAC's a lot in this thread.

Good luck,....GRCRY,....>>--->

[Sounds Simple]

GRCRYSTYK-

Thanks for the pointer to that thread - I'll wade into it when I have some time as I'm sure they will be some good info there.

I had already dug up the fact that the 55TXi uses AKM AK4383s but am uncertain what the 59TXi uses. It seems that Pioneer is lagging Denon a bit in the DACs they employ but I'm sure someone will set me thinking right if I am mistaken.

Bob

[GRCRYSTYK]

Bob,..
If you don't get to it real soon. I don't have a good understanding of all the technical stuff surrounding the internal components, and their relation to each other, but from what I have read, posted by many. Gordon in particular, the 59TXi, is very well put together, with very good quality components, and executed in such a way, that everything plays nice together within the system. In other words, "Pioneer done real good on this one."

I would love to hear one, but don't have a dealer anywhere close to do so. Trying to make some decisions myself.

GRCRY,...>>>--->

[ifor]

sorry for the long delay in response,
first, in the 54 and 56 models there are 5 separate chambers for the different sections 1.power supply 2.amplifier 3.video 4.digital processing 5.analog
second, all the pioneer receivers are thx certified.

the 56 has video upconversion and 100 mhz
192khz/24 bit dacs
pro logic IIx
rs-232
advanced mcacc w/ pc out
i-link
dsd direct or dsd to pcm conversion
15 lb power supply
double layer chassis with transformer stabilizer
dual dsp motorola chips
taoc chassis ?

54 has
no i-link
different chassis
smaller caps
single dsp motorola chip
no dsd direct
different remote
no taoc chassis ?

i hope that this heklps anybody.

[Stephen Hopkins]

I'm really curious to know if the 1014 and 52TX will have video upconversion. I'm looking for a replacement for my 43TX and am strongly considering the Denon 2805 w/ an external amp or the 3805, but if the price is right on the 1014 and 52TX and one/both have video upconversion then I may go with one of those.

[Sounds Simple]

ifor-

Do you have any info on what DACs are being used in the 56? BB or still AKMs?

Bob

[Landroval]

What is the benefit of having dual DSPs against one?

Edit: And are they going to upgrade MCACC to more than 5-band and maybe parametric?

[ifor]

ok,
the 1014 does have video upconversion as well as the 52.

to my knowledge, they are still using the AKM DACs.

i don't know what the benefit to using 2 DSP's are.
maybe faster ?!

[MrMcGoo]

The acoustic room correction requires more processor power. The 59TXi uses three processors.

Bill

[Landroval]

Originally posted by MrMcGoo
The acoustic room correction requires more processor power. The 59TXi uses three processors.
Uh, so it's slower with one DSP or..?

[ifor]

i don't know

[Stephen Hopkins]

Knowing the 1014 has video upconversion is going to make my decision harder... I was expecting it to not have it and that would push me towards the 3805 or 2805... oh well, still time to see...

[ifor]

the things that pioneer are touting over denon, is that denon doesn't use much internal shielding or do they have isolated chamber construction.

[frank robison]

Anyone have any idea when the 56txi will be released. I asked Tweeter and the 55txi has been discontinued, so the 56txi should be appearing soon.

If you know how soon it is to be released, please let us know.

Also, is the 56txi using Burr Brown DACS or last years DACS??

[Sounds Simple]

I'm hoping that more info is available shortly on the 56txi.

I am also wondering if Pioneer has updated the DACs they are using. It's interesting that in the receiver shootout in the current issue of Home Theater Mag that only Pioneer was unwilling to identify what DACs they are using; it's almost as if they are ashamed of them. It's not like it's very difficult to get this information and they sure have no trouble singing the praises of the Motorola DSP.

I wonder if this is one of the reasons that Pioneer has been unresponsive to Audioholics request for review units: Audioholics always does a thorough analysis of a product including identifying the DACs used.

Bob

[dmtremblay]

Originally posted by frank robison
Anyone have any idea when the 56txi will be released.

Probably mid August.

[Landroval]

Originally posted by dmtremblay
Probably mid August.
Arr, I cant wait that long. Probably the probably mid August is for 52 and 54 also?

BTW here's a nice explination of Pioneer receiver technology of the current top-model. Most of this will be in the 56TXi as well, the separate chambers, taoc 'stand', 3D-chassis etc:
http://www.areadvd.de/hardware/pioneer_vsa_ax10ai_s_01.shtml

[ifor]

great,
now if i can only read german !!!;-)

[Landroval]

Originally posted by ifor
great,
now if i can only read german !!!;-)
Babelfish will help you:
http://world.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.areadvd.de%2Fhardware%2Fpioneer_vsa_ax10ai_s_01.shtml&lp=de_en

[bubbawilly]

Originally posted by Landroval
Uh, so it's slower with one DSP or..?

A single Moto '367 on the 55 was nearly maxed out with DD, DPLII, DTS, THX EX, and the other with Pioneer's modes and MCACC. That is at least partly why MCACC was limited to 5 bands, and why it could not re-sample multichannel audio like its bigger brother. The addition of DPLIIx alone is what has forced the use of another DSP. I just hope that Pioneer makes use of the 'excess' capacity they'll now have to expand MCACC to at least 7 bands.

[Landroval]

Originally posted by bubbawilly
The addition of DPLIIx alone is what has forced the addition of another DSP.
So what will be missing from the 54 and 52 because they still have only one DSP?

[dmtremblay]

Originally posted by Landroval
So what will be missing from the 54 and 52 because they still have only one DSP?

I-link

edit
...sorry didn't read the entire question...I'm sure mcacc will be only 5-band

[Landroval]

But that means a single DSP will be sufficent for everything they had before and PL2x. Only thing to require more power would be a more complex auto-eq.

[bubbawilly]

Sorry Landroval, I've edited my earlier post to be a little clearer (I hope).

The 53 and 55 have dual DSP's (Moto 56367 x 2). But I don't believe that the 56367 supports DPLIIx. The successor to the 56367 should have more power, in addition to adding DPLIIx. That may allow for more bands of MCACC, and/or maybe a more advanced MCACC???

Just speculating as I don't believe anyone here has actually seen the specs. I know that I haven't.

[Landroval]

Right, so the new DSP will have more power and it will support PL2x. With a second DSP it will be possible to make a more advanced auto-eq and maybe something else. Ok, maybe we should just wait and see.

[F355]

not a bad translation
http://translate.google.com/translate_t

paste this
http://www.areadvd.de/hardware/pioneer_vsa_ax10ai_s_01.shtml when prompted.

[jacobms1]

I don't understand why no one is screaming for DVI or HDMI switching out of the new lineup of receivers (not only Pioneer). They should at least be available in the flagshipa snd 2nd notch down.

[rtype]

Originally posted by jacobms1
I don't understand why no one is screaming for DVI or HDMI switching out of the new lineup of receivers (not only Pioneer). They should at least be available in the flagshipa snd 2nd notch down.
Probably because they don't have multiple DVI/HDMI sources.

[Landroval]

HDMI is not yet ready and even after that it'll take time to implement it to a receiver, maybe next year we'll see those. DVI is well know and everything, but not many manufacturers are interested in it because it'll soon be phased out by HDMI, and probably the cost of a built in DVI switcher is too high for a such a special feature. Also there is the question of HDCP.

[M Code]

Very simple..
The HDMI standards do not permit a pass-through, therefore the signal must be processed and this requires additional $ and circuitry. Also the copyright managment issues further complicates the technical solutions and $, therefore during this interim if a source component has HDMI output capability it will likely be connected direct to the video display. Unless the AVR/processor has some type of audio and/or video decoding capabilities built-in through its HDMI inputs..

[oscarav098]

The new Denon AVR-5805 has HDMI switching.

[Stephen Hopkins]

Are you sure about the 5805? DenonJeff said it doesn't have it yet but it may be added before the release... I think they may be waiting for Sony and Philips to approve HDMI for SACD Mutlichannel.

[tubeguy44]

I think they may be waiting for Sony and Philips to approve HDMI for SACD Mutlichannel.

don't hold your breath.....

denon is still waiting for the license to pass SACD on the firewire port on their current receivers!!!

:rolleyes:

[Landroval]

Originally posted by tubeguy44
denon is still waiting for the license to pass SACD on the firewire port on their current receivers!!!
Well the 5805 is the first Denon to have a firewire... dlink != firewire.

[oscarav098]

Very sure

[Sounds Simple]

denon is still waiting for the license to pass SACD on the firewire port on their current receivers!!!

Sony has its fingers in HDMI so I expect better odds of SACD approval over HDMI. This would actually be a smart move by Denon.

Bob

[tubeguy44]

Originally posted by Landroval
Well the 5805 is the first Denon to have a firewire... dlink != firewire.

d-link is NOT firewire.....

denon link is a proprietary denon connection that uses an RJ45 connector that no other manufacturer supports.....

you can see it on the back of the 3805 here....

http://www.usa.denon.com/catalog/photo.asp?s=home&p=AVR-3805&f=AVR3805 Back.jpg&c=2

to use it you have to purchase a denon universal player - the 2900 or the 5900.....

here is a pic of the back of the denon 5900 that shows both the IEEE1394 (firewire) connector as well as the denon link connector...

http://www.usa.denon.com/catalog/photo.asp?s=home&p=DVD-5900&f=DVD5900 Rear.jpg&c=4


cheers!

:)

[rtype]

quote:
Originally posted by Landroval
Well the 5805 is the first Denon to have a firewire... dlink != firewire.
Originally posted by tubeguy44
d-link is NOT firewire.....
!= means NOT equal :)

[tubeguy44]

Originally posted by rtype
quote:
Originally posted by Landroval
Well the 5805 is the first Denon to have a firewire... dlink != firewire.

!= means NOT equal :)


like rosannadanna used to say....

nevermind

:D:D:D

[Sounds Simple]

Since Denon has already had their line show and Kal Rubinson has confirmed the Marantz/McIntosh show (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4097278#post4097278) , I'm wondering if there is any word on Pioneer doing a line show any time soon.

Anyone with info?

Bob

[Harmon]

FWIW, I was at a small chain audio store this morning and their computer showed having 3 Pioneer 52tx's in their warehouse and the salesman thought that a shipment of 54tx's was on its way (he wasn't positive about this though - said to check back on Monday). Sounds like there won't be much lead time between the product announcements and the actual products being on the shelves.

It's going to be a hard decision for me between the Pioneer Elites and the Rotel 1056. I love the looks of the Rotel and they seem to hold their audiogon value better than Pioneer and the other mass market brands, but I sure wish the Rotel had i-link and an auto set-up feature.

I had a 53tx in my system for about 3 weeks and had no complaints. MCACC was a neat feature and one that I would like to have, but I never came to a conclusion whether I preferred the sound with the equalization on or off. It was also my first exposure to DPLII. Too much new stuff and not enough time to decide.

I've never been able to hear the Pioneer and Rotel on the same speakers or in same room. Luckily, I found out this morning that this same store carries Pioneer Elite and Rotel so maybe when crunch time comes I will be able to do that. Maybe even cart my own speakers in for a little A/B comparison.

Anyone else looking at these two receivers? Any thoughts, comments, suggestions?

[Stephen Hopkins]

What's really odd is Pioneers lack of updated to the website, especially if units are that close to being on the shelf. I've been looking for strait-from-the-source info on these units for awhile with no luck at all.

[Sounds Simple]

Not only the website but also the fact that nothing has leaked from the sales meeting in San Diego at the beginning of July. I'm beginning to think that they either have little to offer or they are about to really amaze.

Bob

[ifor]

i told you guys as much from that meeting as they wanted us to know before releasing them .
the 52's are out.

[Landroval]

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/eusa/pielvsrefcon1.html

[Sounds Simple]

the 52's are out.

This is what makes it more interesting. You say the 52s are out but there has been no announcement nor is there any info on this unit on the Pioneer site.

BTW, I'm sure that I speak for many when I say that we really appreciate the info you have been able to provide. We just need the a good leak like the guy who leaked the Denon AVR and DVD lineups.

Bob

[Yung]

I did a google search for the VSX-52TX and in addition to the site Landroval posted, here is another from a dealer in San Diego, CA.
http://www.soundpros.com/receivers.cfm

It also has a picture..although the picture is small and could very well be a prior elite model. Specifications for the unit are listed below, although I would personally like to see an official release on these.

THX Select Certification /Air Studios Sound Tuning
Advanced Direct Energy MOS FET
Wide Band Frequency Response (5Hz -100kHz)
100 watts x 2 Stereo
100 Watts x 7 Multi-Channel
Dual Motorola DSP Engine
DTS-ES Discrete 6.1
DTS NEO 6: Music & Movie
DTS 96/24
Dolby Digital-EX
Dolby Pro Logic IIx Music & Movie
Hi-Bit Audio Scaler converts digital sources to 96kHz/24-Bit Resolution
96kHz/24-Bit A/D Conversion (2 Ch.)
192kHz/24-Bit DAC
Auto MCACC (Multi-Channel Acoustic Calibration)
Manual EQ Adjust (5-band x 7)
THX Select Post Processing
7-D Theater
7 Channel Stereo
6 Cinema Modes
6 Concert Modes
Digital Noise Reduction
Midnight Mode
Multi-Channel Multi-Band EQ
Loudness
RS-232
USB - Rear
Multi-Channel Input- All
Multi-Channel Outputs - All
Digital Input - 5 (2 coaxial, 3 optical w/front)
Digital Output - 2 optical
6 Audio / 5 A/V Inputs (including Tuner)
2 Audio / 2 A/V / 1 Video Output
Phono Input
S-Video - 5 In / 2 Out
Component Video In/Out
Front A/V Inputs
Banana Speaker Terminals
AC Outlet

[Yung]

Here is the product page that I found to the above website.
http://www.avperfection.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=46

[Sounds Simple]

I am curious to see whether Pioneer starts using parametric EQ any time soon. It seems that this is the direction the rest of the industry is headed and at least two of their competitors (Denon and Yamaha) used parametric EQ in their auto-calibration routines.

It seems so weird that there has been no official word from Pioneer on anyof the new models.

Bob

[Landroval]

Those specs dont seem very reliable, it's more like 55TXi specs with i-link removed.

[Sounds Simple]

Those specs dont seem very reliable, it's more like 55TXi specs with i-link removed.

Hopefully those specs are accurate. In fact, except for the THX Select and RS-232, nothing really seems amiss.The 52TX should look more like the 53TX while the 54TX/56TXi acquire a number of features from the 59TXi. That's what is supposed to happen - technology and features trickle down from the top-end.

Bob

[ifor]

the 52 does NOT have dual dsp's.
no hi-bit audio conversion.
from info at the show.
i will check the manual though.

[ifor]

nothing in the manual

[Sounds Simple]

ifor-

Thanks again for the information you have been able to share. Do you have any idea of when Pioneer is going to make a formal announcement? Are they just going to trickle these units out and then make an announcement at CEDIA after they have already been shipping?

So it looks like the 54tx/56txi are dual DSP, THX-Select units with some sort of advancement in their MCACC and the addition of 100MHz component video-in. Do you know if they have upgraded the DACs used in these units?

To be honest, from what little is being said, these new units are sounding more and more like very modest upgrades with little to offer over the current models.


Bob

[ifor]

your right , the upgrades are subtile.
as to the dacs, they are AKG but as too what grade, ?
for there announcements, ?
there reps aren't saying much of anything because i think that they don't know.
my guess is that they won't announce anything until there entire line is out.
they do have plans for hdmi based units but should not expect them until next year.
was told the delay for hdmi for everyone was a money issue.
the hdmi based cards that you see for the integra units are the same for everyone but they just recently came down in price from $900 to around $150 for the cards.
we should see all the manufacturers starting to design recievers around these hdmi cards.

[Sounds Simple]

your right , the upgrades are subtile.
as to the dacs, they are AKG but as too what grade, ?


I really hope that the 56TXi has a bit more to offer. There is a big price spread between Denon's 3805 and unannounced 4805 which Pioneer could easily take advantage of provided they are not seen as offering too little. PLIIx and 100Mhz component video are last year's news. Yamaha and Denon are using parametric EQ which many feel has more potential than Pioneer's system. The AKG DACs used in the 55TXi, while good, are far from the BBs used in the 3805 (and this is a current year model).

It appears that both Denon and Pioneer are taking this segment of the market a bit for granted with both seemingly directing their energies toward other areas right now. I think this is a mistake that creates tremendous opportunity for Yamaha, Integra and others if they choose to play hard in this arena.

Bob

[ifor]

i know that integra/onkyo are making strides being one of very few recievers that are card based rather than not.
much like meridian, very upgradeable and easy to change parameters.
the integra's are very good units

[Sounds Simple]

i know that integra/onkyo are making strides being one of very few recievers that are card based rather than not.

Onkyo/Integra are definitely driving hard with their card-based offerings; however, these are their top-end offering and are really competition for Denon's 4805 and Pioneer's 59TXi. Unfortunately, I've never warmed to either their sound or their appearance. One thing I like about onkyo/Integra is that they not only advertise firmware upgrades available online, they've actually delivered them.

Pioneer seems like they are kind of in a rut right now. After being the first to offer auto-EQ, they've been stepped over by newer offerings that offer more advanced EQ. They were among the first to offer 1394 and USB (I wish they would substitute Ethernet for USB) but have failed to propagate it though the Elite line.

The card-based units will be very interesting in that a basic receiver or pre-pro acts as a catalyst for future upgrades and expansion, much as in the computer industry. The companies going this route understand that they don't need to take all your money at once.

Bob

[MrPorterhouse]

I would think that all the newer models will have dual motorola dsp's. I've got the VSX-43TX, and its got dual motorolas. Why would they go backwards?

The specs listed for the 52tx look very similar to any of the previous models(43tx, 45tx, 53tx) with exception to usb connection found on the (txi) models.

More info is needed, so we'll wait for Pioneer's site to update.

[brfransen]

The info above only says the 52tx has Component In/Out but doesn't say how many. Does anyone know if it only has 2 in and 1 out or does it have 3 in and 1 out like the new Denons?

Britney

[bubbawilly]

Originally posted by MrPorterhouse
I would think that all the newer models will have dual motorola dsp's. I've got the VSX-43TX, and its got dual motorolas. Why would they go backwards?

I'll bet they do (have dual DSP's, that is).

BTW, why are some folks assuming that BB DAC's would automatically be an "upgrade" to AKM? There are certainly various levels of quality/precision within any manufacturer's DAC product line, but AKM like Burr-Brown has some exceptional DAC's. Can you say Rotel, Lexicon, B&K, Anthem and TAG. Were talking components that are known for being highly 'musical.' Shoot, the 55TXi is a fantastic sounding receiver!

[Sounds Simple]

BTW, why are some folks assuming that BB DAC's would automatically be an "upgrade" to AKM? There are certainly various levels of quality/precision within any manufacturer's DAC product line, but AKM like Burr-Brown has some exceptional DAC's. Can you say Rotel, Lexicon, B&K, Anthem and TAG. Were talking components that are known for being highly 'musical.' Shoot, the 55TXi is a fantastic sounding receiver!

I was certainly not suggesting that AKM does not make good DACs; as you point out they are used in some really great equipment (although they are using newer and better-performing DACs). I was just trying to point out that the AKMs used in the 55TXi are likely not as capable as the BBs used in the 3805 and I am hoping that Pioneer uses a new model release as a chance for further improvement in this critical area.

While it is not inherently true that BBs outperform AKMs, it is also noteworthy that Pioneer uses BBs in the 59TXi.

Bob

[rtype]

This is kinda like arguing that Chevys are faster than Fords because the Corvette can beat a Mustang. Obviously, the GT40 can give the Corvette a run for its money. Blanket statements about manufacturers of chips simply aren't as useful as even vague opinions about the specific chips.

[avaholic]

Originally posted by bubbawilly
Can you say Rotel, Lexicon, B&K, Anthem and TAG. Were talking components that are known for being highly 'musical.' Shoot, the 55TXi is a fantastic sounding receiver!

Bubbawilly,

Thank you I was going to post the same thing. I'm pretty sure the Anthem AVM-20 uses the same AKM DACs that the 55TXi does. In fact one member here had both the 55TXi and AVM-20 compared side by side in his house and said they sounded near identical. Though I actually think he preffered the 55TXi!

I used to be caught up all the specs. BB DACs, included. However, now it's all about how it sounds as a system. Which means all of the parts working together not just a particular chip or a specific design in the equipment itself. Would I like the best of the best for all components in my receiver, CD plaver, etc.? Of course I would, but I no longer get caught up in it! ;)

As far as parametric EQ, yes you would think Pioneer would introduce it in thier Elite line. But, understand, just because it's parametric does not mean it's necessarily better. I know there have been several reports of problems with the Yamaha parametric EQ, even in thier flagship. Time will tell how well the Denon EQ will pan out. Sometimes it can take months for problems to surface. To be honest even the receivers that have parametric EQ (Denon and Yamaha) don't have it in the bands where it's most needed, below 63Hz. Not to mention they are not near fully adjustable.

The fact remains Pioneers MCACC is extrodinary for what it is. I took a chance on the 55TXi mostly for the i.Link connection, but have found the MCACC do wonders with my problematic room, especially in the high freq. Once again it comes down how it sounds. I'll take i.Link with the 55TXi/47Ai combo and MCACC with the huge detailed soundstage it produces any day over the Denon and Yamaha offerings. Speaking of i.Link, besides the jitterless audio and BM for all sources, you've got to love being able to pop in any format of music, be it SACD, DVD-A, DTS, standard CD, and it plays without a hitch. No changing settings, inputs, etc.
Sweet!:D

My .02!

Best Regards,
Patrick

[Landroval]

Originally posted by MrPorterhouse
I would think that all the newer models will have dual motorola dsp's. I've got the VSX-43TX, and its got dual motorolas. Why would they go backwards?
Somebody said before that the new Elites will use a new more powerfull DSP so one will outperform two old ones. The 52/54 are probably coming with one, while the 56 will have two new chips.

I dont think the DAC's matter that much unless the difference can really be heard. AKM or whatever, probably they are good enough.

[rtype]

Landroval
It surprises me that you would think that DACs would be a component in which differences may not be able to be heard. DACs are a critical component in my view.

[Landroval]

Originally posted by rtype
Landroval
It surprises me that you would think that DACs would be a component in which differences may not be able to be heard. DACs are a critical component in my view.
I didn't actually mean they're not important. What I wanted to say is whether it's an AKM or something else, it's impossible to say wich is better before you try them out. Also there are many more things that affect the sound, that a receiver with better DACs can sound a lot worse than an other with bad ones, if it lacks on other sectors.

[rtype]

Landroval
I agree completely but most of us aren't able to judge their circuits and which opamps and caps they use we don't usually find out until much later (when someone pulls thiers apart and posts about it). We can only work with the information we have.

[bubbawilly]

Originally posted by avaholic
Bubbawilly,

Thank you I was going to post the same thing. I'm pretty sure the Anthem AVM-20 uses the same AKM DACs that the 55TXi does. In fact one member here had both the 55TXi and AVM-20 compared side by side in his house and said they sounded near identical. Though I actually think he preffered the 55TXi!



I think that the only difference between the AKM 4382's in the Anthem AVM 20 and the 4383's in the 55TXi is the DSD input on the 4383. I'm sure the 4383 was selected for the 55TXi in order to allow the option of sending a pure DSD bitstream via i-Link straight through to the DAC's, whenever conversion to PCM for signal manipulation isn't required or desired. The Anthem didn't have an operational i-Link interface, and wouldn't have required this option.

Where many mass market products cut costs affecting sound quality is downstream of the DAC's in the analog stage.

[M Code]

Originally posted by ifor
your right , the upgrades are subtile.
as to the dacs, they are AKG but as too what grade, ?
for there announcements, ?


I think you mean AKM not AKG..
AKG is a company owned by Harman based in Europe known highly for their microphones and headphones..

Regarding AKM, they have some new converters which are excellant, also Burr Brown(owned by TI) whose converter lineup was dated has some new parts developed by their AZ group which are very promising..

[Yung]

I was cruising the pioneer website to look for authorized B&M dealers for the elite line of receivers around me and noticed that the VSX52TX, 54TX and 56TXi DOES show up on its pull down menu.

I also noticed they have some models listed that I am not familiar with, such as the VSX79, VSX95, VSX97 and VSX99. Is anyone familiar with these models? Are these older discontinued models or future models?

[Sounds Simple]

Good catch Yung...now if they would just post some actual information.

Bob

[Sounds Simple]

The fact remains Pioneers MCACC is extrodinary for what it is. I took a chance on the 55TXi mostly for the i.Link connection, but have found the MCACC do wonders with my problematic room, especially in the high freq. Once again it comes down how it sounds.

Patrick-

I hope that my remarks about the Pioneer receivers are not seen as being in any way negative. To the contrary, the 55TXi has been my favorite receiver (in its price range) of all those I've demoed.

I guess I'm having one of those "tyranny of expectation" moments. With the impending release of new units, I'd like official confirmation of what to expect. Even if the update is modest in nature, Pioneer is starting from a very good basis.

I agree with you that I'd certainly have well-implemented graphic EQ over poorly-implemented parametric EQ but what would be better is well-implemented parametric EQ. I feel the same way about DACS: last years great DACs are this years good DACS as further refinement improves quality and last years units trickle their way down to lower-priced products. I really don't care of the DACs say BB, AKM or Wolfson on them, I'd just like to see manufacturers continually improve their product.

Bob

[Sounds Simple]

I think you mean AKM not AKG..

I think my typo in a previous post is responsible for this. Damn spellcheck doesn't catch stuff like that.

[Yung]

The specs listed on link I posted before to the 52TX do indeed seem a lot like the 43TX with some added connectivity. In fact the image is the 43TX which only seem to add some more confusion.

http://www.avperfection.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=46

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_4155_37997_tab=B,00.html?compName=PNA_ProductDetailComponent

[Yung]

OK..I did more digging on the Pio site...actually the Pioneer direct site. In looking at ordering parts...the operating manual for the 52TX is listed on the site..but it is not in stock yet. ETA is 8/3/04.

Interestingly the upcoming Pioneer VSX-1014K and the Pioneer Elite VSX-52TX seem to share the same service manual. I wonder what the difference between these two units will be then. ETA for the service manual is 11/19/04. I don't know what this tells us about the availability of these units.

http://parts.pioneerelectronics.com/model.asp?modelNum=VSX52TX&x=15&y=5

[ifor]

just tell the dealer to order it.
the 52 is available

[avaholic]

Originally posted by Sounds Simple
Patrick-

I hope that my remarks about the Pioneer receivers are not seen as being in any way negative. To the contrary, the 55TXi has been my favorite receiver (in its price range) of all those I've demoed.

I guess I'm having one of those "tyranny of expectation" moments. With the impending release of new units, I'd like official confirmation of what to expect. Even if the update is modest in nature, Pioneer is starting from a very good basis.

Bob

Hey Bob,

How have you been?

I do know where you're coming from. It just seemed like some were thinking that BB DACs would be a significant upgrade. I'm not saying that it would or wouldn't be. They (Burr-Brown) are much more well known and for good reason, but that does not mean that they will make a particular receiver sound better than one with AKM or other DACs. It just seemed that some people believe that, regardless if it's actually true. I just don't happen to be one of them. For example I know you've demoed the 3805 which has BB DACs, yet you prefer the sound of the Elite. My guess is BB DACs in the 55TXi/56TXi would not make that much of a difference in sound quality, if any. As to if they are actually better DACs that's another issue as well. Sometimes you can pay more just for a "name". So just because the BB DACs cost more and are more well known does not mean they will ultimately sound better in a given implementation.

All that said, I do understand that you (like many) would like to see a significant upgrade in the next versions of Elites. Bringing i.Link down to a reasonable price like the 55TXi is going to be hard to improve upon. A more advanced MCACC would be nice, but given how well it currently works, I don't think it has to be Parametric in nature. When someone comes up with a "fully" adjustable parametric EQ for 20-120Hz on the sub output, that will be what I call a significant upgrade. But IMHO, for right now with i.Link alone, the 55TXi, (not even the 56TXi) has the upper hand in my eyes over the competitors in the same price range. Most professional reviewers don't even bother to investigate and test i.Link. Which is too bad. They leave the impression that it's not that big of a deal. I hear a huge difference myself. And I can not say enough about the convienence of playing all formats without thinking about what type of disk I'm putting in.

My guess is the 56TXi and other Elite upgrades will just have upgrades for DPL IIx and the100MHz (ironically neither are important or would be used in my case). Other than that there may be one or two other upgrades, maybe the advanced MCACC that's in the 59TXi. The latter may be significant to some. But "better DACs" are probably not in the offing. Again though IMHO, it is not that big of a deal. Like Bubbawilly says a bigger improvement would be seen in the analog stage, which is even less likely though!

Anyway, (even though I like many am always looking for the "greener pasture on the other side of the fence") can you tell I won't be upgrading my 55TXi/47Ai combo any time soon! ;)

Best Regards,
Patrick

[DJ_JonnyV]

Yeah, I still have no real compelling reason to upgrade from my 45TX. The only thing that might tease me would be video upconversion, but I only have 2 video sources (HD satellite via component and DVD via component) going straight into my RPTV. Yeah, I have to push an extra button to switch the video, but don't really think these newer receivers priced at $1K - $1500 offer that much more than 2 models ago (56/54>55/53>45/43). I know, I know, ilink, but that's cost prohibitive at this point with Jr. on the way.

[Sounds Simple]

Hey Patrick-

I'm great (thanks for asking) and anxiously awaiting completion of my house here in hot (and recently, muggy) Arizona.

I agree that i.link does not get enough coverage in reviews. Both i.Link and Denonlink make a big difference in sound quality though i.Link has the obvious advantage of passing SACD as well as DVD-A. Hopefully we will hear more about this in the reviews.

Like you, I was drawn to look at the Pios because of i.Link; what surprised me was the transparency this receiver has considering its price. I always knew that I would give the 55TXi a listen because of the enthusiasm you, tubeguy, graphicguy and others expressed. I listened again and again and continue to be impressed.

As far as new features for the 56TXi, I'm hoping Pioneer moves the advanced MCACC down-range. I'm guessing that if they do decide to do parametric EQ it will be introduced on the replacement for the 59TXi and this will be one of several points for product differentiation.

By the way, congrats on your new speakers. I've seen that you really are appreciating them in a big way.

Bob

[avaholic]

Bob,

Glad to hear things are going well and congrats on the soon to be new house!

Yes, the 55TXi makes a little magic, especially considering its price. I was really surprised when to my ears it really blew away the sound from my HK AVR8000. Have you checked out some Cds using the Hi-Bit upsampling through i.Link? I think I've mentioned before to you that listening to CDs using DPL II and Hi-bit upsampling sounds better than some of my Multi-Channel SACDs.

Yes, they may just filter down that advanced MCACC to the 56TXi like they did with i.Link on the 55TXi.

Regarding my new PC 3.1 II speakers, thanks! Yes, I really can't believe how remarkable they sound. I can honestly say I've never heard another speaker anywhere near thier price ($600 ea. new) that image as well as they do, not to mention thier huge soundstage and sweet highs. I finally think I've reached my sonic "nirvana". I hope so anyway, this hobby can get pretty damn expensive!

I think I read somewhere that you settled on some Monitor Audio speakers, am I remembering right? If so congrats to you as well!

Take care,
Patrick

[Sounds Simple]

Have you checked out some Cds using the Hi-Bit upsampling through i.Link? I think I've mentioned before to you that listening to CDs using DPL II and Hi-bit upsampling sounds better than some of my Multi-Channel SACDs.

Patrick-

Indeed I have. After comparing the Denon and Pioneer units in direct mode, I spent some time listening and comparing CDs in Hi-Bit: the music opened up even further with more midrange detail and what seemed like less compression in the top-end.

I have pretty much settled on the MA Silver 6s with Silver Center and Silver 1s in the rear. I may give a listen to the PT PC series; we are fortunate to have a good dealer here in Phoenix.

Bob

[Sounds Simple]

Just got off the phone with the owner of a store who had some general information to share about the 56TXi.

First, his Pioneer rep said that the 56TXi should be 9/16. He also said his rep told him that he was quite impressed with the new unit when he heard it at the Pioneer meeting in San Diego. The sales manager said his rep is a straight-shooter and says what he thinks. This is the same rep who told him last year that he (and many at Pioneer) were disappointed in the modest gains of last year's units.

The most interesting thing the rep told him was that "the difference in amplification is not subtle". The rep didn't specifically say that the output stage was improved but that would be what I'd derive from this general remark. Then again, perhaps he was referring to improvements in the EQ. He also said that the 56TXi was going to be a "worthy successor" to the 55TXi. Unfortunately, no additional specific details were given.

I'm encouraged by the remarks since this I've known the owner for years and he has always been honest with me. I don't know the rep but believe that his remarks indicate that I'll be very pleased with the new unit.

Bob

[ODellAudio]

Just a quick question. Which Elite DVD players currently have I-link? Will there be new models coming out soon that will have it also? I have a pioneer dv-563a and I love Multichannel music so much. I would love to have I-link also and I'm planning on upgrading my receiver (vsx-811s) this upcoming holiday season. Im looking at either a Elite vsx-55txi or the new vsx56txi. Is there any reasonable priced DVD players with I-link out there? I was looking at the new Denon 3805 but the dvd player with denon link is its going to be more than the 3805. Well thats from what I've read over at hometheaterspot.com. Any info would help.

Thanks
Jay

[Sounds Simple]

Which Elite DVD players currently have I-link? Will there be new models coming out soon that will have it also?

Current players with i.link are the DV-47Ai (list $1200) and DV-49AVi (List $1600) but available for less. There will be a replacement for the 47Ai this fall/winter so good deals can be found.

Bob

[bubbawilly]

Originally posted by ODellAudio
I would love to have I-link also and I'm planning on upgrading my receiver (vsx-811s) this upcoming holiday season.

Thanks
Jay
Before you are ready to upgrade to an i-Link receiver, I expect that Pioneer will have a sub $700 (street) 'replacement' for the 45A/47Ai with i-Link.

Will the new Denons have i-Link, or just DenonLink. My guess is that except for their $1.3K model and up, they will only support DenonLink.

Wait for the Pioneer.

[Sounds Simple]

Will the new Denons have i-Link, or just DenonLink. My guess is that except for their $1.3K model and up, they will only support DenonLink.

It's worse than that as I recall. The 3910 and above have both Denonlink and i.Link while the other players have neither.

There are plenty of rumors for the 47Ai replacement have a great price.

Bob

[Blaine Doss]

I have been watching this thread intensely due to the fact I am wanting to upgrade my Denon 3801. Can anyone give me some insight from someone who has switched from denon to pioneer. I am currently looking at the 3805 to join to my parasound 2206A Amp. But the new model pioneer models look tempting….

Thanks

[avaholic]

Originally posted by Sounds Simple
Current players with i.link are the DV-47Ai (list $1200) and DV-49AVi (List $1600) but available for less.


The 47Ai can be had for less than $700 delivered from a authorized dealer, and the 59AVi (not 49AVi) can be had for less than $1100.

I personally will eventually upgrade my 47Ai when there is a 5 or 6 disc i.Link player.

Patrick

[avaholic]

Originally posted by Sounds Simple
Patrick-

Indeed I have. After comparing the Denon and Pioneer units in direct mode, I spent some time listening and comparing CDs in Hi-Bit: the music opened up even further with more midrange detail and what seemed like less compression in the top-end.Bob
Well said!

Originally posted by Sounds Simple
I have pretty much settled on the MA Silver 6s with Silver Center and Silver 1s in the rear. I may give a listen to the PT PC series; we are fortunate to have a good dealer here in Phoenix.

I have not heard the Silver 6's, in fact I have not heard any MA's in about 4 years, but as I remember the highs had a little more "sizzle" than say the Phase tech PC series. I actually remembering that I really liked them at the time. But my guess is if you really like the MA's the Phase tech. PC series may not have as much "sizzle" on the top end for you. That's not to say the PC 3.1 IIs are not detailed, quite the contrary, I hear things now I've never heard before and very clearly seperated in the soundstage. But the detail is without the "bite" that some speakers have in upper freq. Which is good for me, I have very sensitive ears, and some speakers that have that extra sizzle can cause listener fatigue with me very quickly.

Anyway hope you get what's just right for you!

Best Regards,
Patrick

[Sounds Simple]

Patrick-

Are you driving your system with the 55TXi's amps or did you add outboard amplification?

Also, since I know you love your receiver, let's play devil's advocate: if you could add or change one thing in the unit, what would it be? It would be good to hear from anyone on this.

Bob

[Bill Mac]

I also have been waiting for info. on the 56txi (one of the many). I have the 3802 with Def. Tech 2006tl speakers and am also interested what people think that have made the switch from Denon to Pioneer.

I like the 3802 but would like to upgrade to something with more up to date features such as auto set up, PLIIx and I-link. The 3805 was looking like the one but with the link issues and the fact that Denon does not include a mic with the 3805 (I know its only $60.00), but when you spend $1100.00 in my opinion it should be included.

What really surprises me is that Pioneer does not release info. on their new line. There might be a lot of people out there ready to buy other AVR's and maybe seeing what the new Pioneers have to offer might wait instead of buying now. But I'm going to wait to see what the 56txi has to offer.

Bill

[avaholic]

Originally posted by Sounds Simple
Patrick-

Are you driving your system with the 55TXi's amps or did you add outboard amplification?

Also, since I know you love your receiver, let's play devil's advocate: if you could add or change one thing in the unit, what would it be? It would be good to hear from anyone on this.

Bob

Bob, I'm using the 55TXi's amps. They drive the 6 Ohm PC 3.1 II really effortlessly. After many hours of continuous use the 55Txi stays just warm. And not any hotter than when I had the 8 Ohm Velocities hooked up to it. Keep in mind I have all speakers crossed over at 80 Hz.

If I could add anything it would be a fully adjustable parametric EQ for the 20HZ-120Hz band on the subwoofer output . That and maybe more bands of EQ for the rest of the speakers in the standard MCACC. Keep in mind though I am perfectly happy with MCACC as it is right now. I wouldn't upgarde for either right now though because I EQ my sub with a BFD paraemtric EQ (besides the fact no receiver has a fully adjustable parametric EQ for 20-120Hz anyway) and as I said I'm very happy with the MCACC. DPLIIx and 100Mhz bandwidth for video are not important to me at all. I have no room for 7.1 speakers and I do not switch video with my receiver.

That's about it!

Patrick

[dmtremblay]

I'm not sure if anyone has noticed but the specs for the 54 and 56 are now on Pioneer's website. There is no mention of availability or delivery date.

[Bill Mac]

dmtremblay,

I couldn't find anything on the Pioneer website, where was the info on the 54-56txi located?

Thanks, Bill

[Yung]

Pioneer just quietly put it in their manuals link. You can download it.
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/manual/0,,2076_4279,00.html

[brfransen]

Originally posted by Bill Mac
dmtremblay,

I couldn't find anything on the Pioneer website, where was the info on the 54-56txi located?

Thanks, Bill

I only see the manuals posted right now: http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/manual/0,,2076_4279,00.html

Britney

[dmtremblay]

It also shows up under the drop down of available elite receivers...okay, nevermind. I swear I just saw it but it seems to have dissapeared. They must be tampering with the website. I did manage to grab this link, though, before it went away.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_4155_123728213_tab=B,00.html?compName=PNA_ProductDetailComponent

[Yung]

Here's a link for 56TXi
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_4155_123728213_tab=B,00.html?compName=PNA_ProductDetailComponent

[Yung]

VSX-56TXi

THX Select A/V Receiver with i-LINK AdvancedDigital Audio Interface
M.S.R.P. $1,700.00


Power
Power Amplifier Design A.D.E MOS FET
Surround Power 110 W x 7 (20HZ - 20kHZ @ 8 ohm, 0.09% THD
Stereo Power 110 W x 2 (20HZ - 20kHZ @ 8 ohm, 0.09% THD
Digital Decoding & Processing
Digital Engine Dual Motorola 48-Bit Processing
Dolby Digital 5.1 Yes
Dolby Digital EX Yes
DTS 5.1 Yes
DTS-ES Discrete 6.1 Yes
DTS 96/24 Yes
DTS NEO 6 Yes
Pro-Logic II DPL IIx
THX Yes
Surround EX Yes
Pioneer Original Surround Modes Advanced Surround 6 Movie / 6 Music
Virtual Surround Back Yes
Midnight Listening Yes
Loudness Yes
MCACC Advanced
Speaker Configuration Yes
Speaker Size Yes
Speaker Level Yes
Speaker Distance Yes
Acoustic Equalization 5 - Band
Advanced MCACC (EQ Timing Adjustments) Yes
Acoustic Status Display via PC Yes
Analog to Digital Conversion 96/24
Digital Analog Conversion (DAC) 192kHz/24-Bit Delta Sigma
Connectivity
i-Link Yes
USB PC Input Yes
Analog Audio Inputs 10
Analog Audio Outputs 4
Digital Inputs 5
Optical In 3
Coaxial In 2
Optical Digital Output 2
Multi-Channel Input 8 Channel
Audio Pre-Output 8 Channel
Composite Video Input 5
Composite Video Output 3
S-Video Input 5
S-Video Output 3
Component Video Input 2
Component Video Output 1
Component Video Conversion Yes
Component Video Frequency Response 100 MHz
Headphone Output Yes
Multi-Room and Source Output 1 A/V
Front A/V Inputs Yes
IR IN/Out Yes
12 Volt Trigger Yes
RS-232C Yes
System Remote Control Port Yes
AC Outlet 1
SP Terminal Type High Grade Banana
Speaker A/B A/B, A+B
Adjustable Speaker Configuration Yes (2nd Zone /SB Channel / MR&S
Convenience
On-Screen Display Yes - All
Dot Matrix Display Yes
Remote Type 2 Line LCD
Pre-programmed Yes
Learning Yes
Illuminated Keys Yes
Macro Commands Yes
Construction
Front Panel Aluminum
Chassis Double Layer
Transformer Stabilizer Yes
Direct Construction Yes
Insulators TAOC
Warranty
Terms 2 years parts and labor
Dimensions
Width x Height x Depth 16 9/16 x 7 7/16 x 18 5/16
Weight 44.8 lbs

[Yung]

The new 56TXi seems like a beast..slightyly bigger than the 55TXi and nearly 4 lbs heavier. Here is the 55TXi for comparison.

VSX-55TXi

THX Select A/V Receiver with I-LINK Advanced Resolution Multi-Channel Digital Audio Interface.
M.S.R.P. $1,700.00

Power
Power Amplifier Design A.D.E. MOS FET
Surround Power 100W x 7 (20HZ-20kHZ @ 8 ohm, 0.09% THD)
Stereo Power 100W x 2 (20HZ-20kHZ @ 6 ohm, 0.09% THD)
Digital Decoding & Processing
Digital Engine Dual Motorola 48 Bit Processing
Dolby Digital 5.1 Yes
Dolby Digital EX Yes
DTS 5.1 Yes
DTS-ES Discrete 6.1 Yes
DTS 96/24 Yes
DTS NEO 6 Yes
Pro-Logic II Yes
THX Select
Surround EX Yes
Pioneer Original Surround Modes Advanced Surround 6 Movie / 6 Music
Virtual Surround Back Yes
Midnight Listening Yes
Loudness Yes
MCACC Yes
Speaker Configuration Auto / Manual Settings
Speaker Size Auto / Manual Settings
Speaker Level Auto / Manual Settings
Speaker Distance Auto / Manual Settings
Acoustic Equalization 5 Band
Analog to Digital Conversion 96/24
Digital Analog Conversion (DAC) 192kHz/24-Bit
Connectivity
i-Link Yes
USB PC Input Yes (Stereo)
Analog Audio Inputs 10
Analog Audio Outputs 4
Digital Inputs 5
Optical In 3
Coaxial In 2
Optical Digital Output 2
Multi-Channel Input 8 Channel
Audio Pre-Output 8 Channel
Composite Video Input 5
Composite Video Output 3
S-Video Input 5
S-Video Output 3
Component Video Input 2
Component Video Output 1
Component Video Frequency Response 40MHz
Headphone Output Yes
Multi-Room and Source Output 1 A/V
Front A/V Inputs Yes
12 Volt Trigger Yes
RS-232C Yes
System Remote Control Port Yes
AC Outlet 1
SP Terminal Type High Grade Banana
Speaker A/B A/B, A+B
Adjustable Speaker Configuration Yes (2nd Zone /SB Channel / MR&S)
Convenience
On-Screen Display Yes - All
Dot Matrix Display Yes
Remote Type 2 Line LCD
Pre-programmed Yes
Learning Yes
Macro Commands Yes
Construction
Front Panel Aluminum
Chassis Double Layer
Transformer Stabilizer Yes
Direct Construction Yes
Warranty
Terms 2 years parts and labor
Dimensions
Width x Height x Depth 16 3/16" x 7 3/16" x 18 1/8"
Weight 41 lbs


I guess I was right about the 54TX having an MSRP of $1,500.

[Landroval]

So no more digital inputs nor component videos. Some might not like that.

[Yung]

Originally posted by Landroval
So no more digital inputs nor component videos. Some might not like that.

It has both

[Yung]

Here is a spreadsheet with the above info on the VSX55TXi vs. the VSX56TXi side by side with differences highlighted so its easier to read.

[rtype]

Under the Product Overview tab, it says "Nice receiver." :)

[Gordon McGregor]

Originally posted by Yung
Here is a spreadsheet with the above info on the VSX55TXi vs. the VSX56TXi side by side with differences highlighted so its easier to read.
You probably need to correct the table with comparison, as in both receivers multi-bit delta-sigma DACs AK4383 are used.

[Landroval]

Originally posted by Yung
It has both
Sorry, I was trying to say it hasn't more of them than the 55.

[Sounds Simple]

Figures that news would break while I'm busy with other matters.

I still need to read the manual and I anxiously await the opportunity to audition the 56TXi but from the specs I'd say the improvements are very modest. DPIIx and Advanced MCACC with a reworked output amp stage. The additional size and weight are most likely the result of chassis improvements. i wonder if there are any styling changes?

I'm not sure what to make of the fact that they didn't increase the number of component or digital inputs - it's as if they forgot to add HDMI or something. It's odd that they would acknowledge the value of video trans-coding but not add an additional component-in like most their competition has done already or will do this year.

[Blaine Doss]

Looks like I will be looking more at the 3805 :confused:

[Yung]

Here is Pioneer's reply to my email of last night as to availability.

Inquiry:I am looking for information on the VSK-2012K. Pioneer issued a press release on 6/25/03 on this A/V receiver, how come this receiver is not listed on your webpage? There is no information on this unit anywhere on the pioneer website. Also, the VSK-1014 is suppose to be released in August according to the company press release earlier this January? Can you provide a firmer release date? Any word on the new Pioneer Elite receivers: VSX-52TX, VSX-54TX and VSX-56TXi and their availability?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for contacting Pioneer Electronics, Inc.

Yung,

The VSX2012K, is basically the same as the VSX55TX found on the Pioneer website. The 2012 is sold at Good Guys and a few smaller chain stores. It's a entry level version of the Pioneer Elite. The other models in question are all set to be released in mid-late August, actually you should see them showing up in dealers within the next week or so.

thank you.

[Yung]

Hmmm..small picture..but this doesn't look like any of the past Elite models.

http://parts.pioneerelectronics.com/model.asp?modelNum=VSX1014TXK

[Sounds Simple]

The VSX2012K, is basically the same as the VSX55TX found on the Pioneer website.

Amazing to see a manufacturer say in essence: "Buy the lower-priced product as is is basically the same". Sure takes the polish off the "elite" badge.

Bob

[Yung]

A bit OT, but these units are even taller than last year's models. PE seem to stand taller than AVRs made by other manufacturers. Looking in the manual, Pioneer recommends 8 inches above the unit. Do you really need 8 inches?

I was really looking forward to getting this Bell'o stand (AVSC-2103) to place the Sony KD-34XBR960 on and putting one of the new PE's in the lower shelf. However since there is only 8 inches between shelves, it looks like I will only have about 3/4 inch of clearance. Will this work or am I going to damage the receiver due to overheating. The sides and back are open so that should help cooling.

[Yung]

Originally posted by Sounds Simple
Amazing to see a manufacturer say in essence: "Buy the lower-priced product as is is basically the same". Sure takes the polish off the "elite" badge.

Bob

It does a bit, but the VSX-2012 is no ordinary Pio. Its MSRP was $1,200. I've read elsewhere on this forum that it is a rebadged PE VSX-45TX as opposed to the 55TX referenced by the Pio rep.

[Sounds Simple]

Reading the manual now and noticed that the 56TXi inherited the "Stream Direct" feature from the 59TXi. This appears to be the equivalent of Denon's feature to auto-select the format based on the bit-stream.

Bob

[Yung]

Glad to see Advanced MACC has filtered down to the 54TX as well.

The 54TX does not have seem to have USB according to the manual. Makes me wonder if the specs from the site I posted a couple of days ago about the 52TX are accurate. Why would the 52TX have USB and the 54TX not have it.

[DJ_JonnyV]

It's still pretty piss-poor that they didn't add any more digital or component ins, and that they only now are offering video upconversion over component. That should've been addressed last year with the 53 and 55.

[Yung]

Hopefully I can find an authorized dealer within $100-$150 of this dealer on the 54TX.


http://www.avperfection.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=493
http://www.soundpros.com/pioneer_elite_home.cfm

[avaholic]

Originally posted by Sounds Simple
Amazing to see a manufacturer say in essence: "Buy the lower-priced product as is is basically the same". Sure takes the polish off the "elite" badge.

Bob
Bob,

The VSX2012K does not have i.Link so it's not the same as the 55TXi, maybe the 53TX or 45TX like Yung said.

Originally posted by Sounds Simple
Reading the manual now and noticed that the 56TXi inherited the "Stream Direct" feature from the 59TXi. This appears to be the equivalent of Denon's feature to auto-select the format based on the bit-stream.
The 55TXi has the "stream direct" (autodetect) , so it's not new to the 56TXi.

Patrick

[Sounds Simple]

After reading the manual this seems a very modest upgrade and one certainly not likely to encourage owners of the 53/55 units to want to buy unless they need the specific new features. Pioneer is essentially late-to-market with DPLIIx and video up-conversion (many manufacturers addressed this with last year's models). What Pioneer calls "Stream Direct" was already available on many others receivers, if I understand it correctly. The Advanced MCACC seems like an improvement but others are offering more bands of parametric EQ; I'll withhold judgment here until I can try it.

The additional power seems to be the result of the larger caps in the output stage rather than any reworking of the PSU. The improvements in the chassis may prove to beneficial but are not reflected in any of the posted specs. If Gordon is right, it is using the same DACs and the DSPs are also likely the same.

Is this enough to make me remove it from my short list? No, but it is also not enough to keep me from searching any further. This is a very different announcement than Denon's 3805 which offered enough new features and performance gains to encourage 3803 owners to upgrade their units. Pricing is also going to be critical: the 55TXi and 3805 are duking it out pretty good at their current prices, but the 56 will be a tough sell anywhere near its list price.

The lack of additional digital-ins and an additional component-in is likely to put off a number of people unless Pioneer can deliver an incredibly good DVD player for significantly less than Denon's 3910. With Denon staggering their product releases, the replacement to the 3805 may well deliver a tough blow to the heart of the Elite line.

Well, that's how I see it but then again I am still anxious to hear it.

Bob

[Sounds Simple]

The 55TXi has the "stream direct" (autodetect) , so it's not new to the 56TXi.

I said that only because I could find no reference to "Stream Direct" iun the 55TXi manual. Tubeguy also said that the 55 did auto-select so maybe Stream Direct is something different.

This is what it says in the 56TXi manual:

There are many ways to listen back to sources using this receiver, but for the simplest, most direct listening option is the Stream Direct feature. With this, the receiver automatically detects what kind of source you’re playing and selects multichannel or stereo playback as necessary.

Maybe a 59TXi owner can explain this setting better.

It seems like Pioneer needs to better educate their sales support staff about its products. :)

All in all, the 56TXi is likely to remain at the top of my list but nothing I've read about it seals the deal. OTOH, the shop owner still stands by his reps assessment of much better performance.

Bob

[Sounds Simple]

Upon further investigation, the Stream Direct mode (as described in the 59TXi manual) sounds analogous to Denon's Pure Direct which makes more sense. Unlike Denon's Pure Direct, it does not switch off the display or video circuitry.

The Stream Direct on the 59TXi has three option plus off; it looks like this feature has fewer options on the 56TXi.

Bob

[avaholic]

Originally posted by Sounds Simple
I said that only because I could find no reference to "Stream Direct" iun the 55TXi manual. Tubeguy also said that the 55 did auto-select so maybe Stream Direct is something different.

This is what it says in the 56TXi manual:

There are many ways to listen back to sources using this receiver, but for the simplest, most direct listening option is the Stream Direct feature. With this, the receiver automatically detects what kind of source you’re playing and selects multichannel or stereo playback as necessary.
What is described here, is exactly what the 55TXi does. As stated before, all I have to do is pop in a disk, whether it's a CD, SACD, DVD-A, or DTS audio Cd, the 55TXi figures it out and switches everthing automatically. Does the 3805 do this with SACDs since it's DLink can't pass DSD? I guess it would have to regconize it on the multi-channel inputs if it does switch automatically.

Patrick

[Sounds Simple]

I'm not sure if the 3805 handles SACD since it lacks a digital in; I'd need to check.

The 56TXi has a Stream Direct button like the 59TXi. On the 59TXi. it allows you to choose between 3 different modes plus turn it off.

This is what it says about Stream Direct in the 59TXi manual:

2 If you want to change the Stream Direct mode, press OPTION repeatedly to select Stream Direct (appears on the front panel as SD:1, 2 or 3) then use the (OPTION) +/– buttons to adjust the setting.

SD:1 NORMAL – Analog and digital sources are heard according to the settings made in the
Surround Setup (speaker setting, channel level, speaker distance, acoustic calibration EQ, and Xcurve), as well as with dual mono, the input attenuator, and any sound delay and hi-bit/hisampling settings. You will hear sources according to the number of channels in the signal.

SD:2 2CH-DIRECT – Use this setting for stereo analog and digital sources. All processing unnecessary for
2-channel signals is bypassed (such as speaker distance and acoustic calibration EQ) and you will hear the source through the shortest possible signal path. All sound will be heard through the front left and right speakers only (no subwoofer output is heard). With multichannel sources, playback is the same as the NORMAL setting (above).

SD:3 ANA-DIRECT – All analog sources are heard without any digital processing. All processing is done
through the analog circuitry and the center channel, if present, will be sent to the front right and left speakers (the channel level is adjusted automatically). With digital sources, playback is the same as the NORMAL setting (above).



Maybe graphicguy or another 59TXi owner can clarify this for us. It's unlikely that Pioneer uses the same name to reference two different functions.

Bob

[Shane Martin]

The lack of 3 component ins for switching is pretty dissapointing especially considering the other receivers in that range are adding it. The 3805 has it. The NAD T773 has it. Why not PE?

[Gordon McGregor]

Originally posted by Shane Martin
The lack of 3 component ins for switching is pretty dissapointing especially considering the other receivers in that range are adding it. The 3805 has it. The NAD T773 has it. Why not PE?
Because of HDMI in their players?

[Sounds Simple]

The lack of 3 component ins for switching is pretty dissapointing especially considering the other receivers in that range are adding it. The 3805 has it. The NAD T773 has it. Why not PE?

I think this (and the lack of additional digital-ins) versus the cost at introduction may be a major stumbling block for the new unit. Pioneer seems to be gambling on HDMI/DVI support becoming common features on players and TVs and that people are ready to upgrade.

I guess the lack of digital-ins is a bit less important when you factor in i.Link and USB. You can daisy-chain multiple devices on an i.Link connection so, in a sense, you have many more "digital-ins" albeit it at a premium price. I think this will more like be an issue for the 52/54 units which lack i.Link.

I know the USB works great but I wish Pioneer would dump it in favor of Ethernet; this could allow connection to music servers and provide support for Internet radio stations.

Bob

[graphicguy]

Can't add much more than what Bob posted since I use the "Normal" setting on my 59 TXi.

Since I do use my sub for 2-channel playback, I haven't used 2CH-DIRECT. I've upgraded my front L/R and they venture down do about 50 Hz so I'll give it a try. Before my speaker upgrade, with my previous front L/R, they would only play down to about 70 Hz. From what I know, 2CH-DIRECT will play stereo only (L/R front) with al bass being passed to the mains.

I have popped in SACD disks to play in hi-rez 2-channel mode, but I have to go into the set-up menu of my DVD player (59 AVi) to defeat automatic default to play in multi-channel mode to do so. Personally, I always prefer the multi-channel mix of hi-rez audio disks.

ANA-DIRECT doesn't work for me since I have totally digital connections. My understanding is this selection is used only for analog sources (like a turntable or cassette player). Why they say that the center channel will be mixed to the L/R mains is unusual. I can only guess that Pioneer believes there are some who still use their turntable to play vinyl with "quad" mixes and the user may want to "down mix" that signal to 2-channel via analog connection. That's, at best, a guess.

As it stands, all I do is pop in a disk. The decoding, regardless of type, is automatic.....that includes SACD and DVD-A. The 59 TXi recognizes the format and plays them correctly without any extra set-up or button pushes. For example, any redbook CD will default to DPL IIx, any movie DVD will defualt to either DD-EX or DTS-ES, any hi-rez disk will automatically defualt to multi-channel playback (shows either SACD or DVD-A on the front pannel) unless I go into the set-up menu to change preferences or hitting the "OPTION" button on the remote.

[Sounds Simple]

The 54TX does not have seem to have USB according to the manual. Makes me wonder if the specs from the site I posted a couple of days ago about the 52TX are accurate. Why would the 52TX have USB and the 54TX not have it.

I'd say that site's info is suspect. Both last year's models and this years models seem to be consistent: the 55/56TXi unit is the entry point for i.Link and USB and lower models lack both these features.

Bob

[Shane Martin]

Because of HDMI in their players?
That's a poor excuse due to the lack of HDMI switching on the unit..
If it had DVI switching I would cut them some slack but that isn't the case here either.

[Landroval]

Originally posted by Sounds Simple
I think this (and the lack of additional digital-ins) versus the cost at introduction may be a major stumbling block for the new unit. Pioneer seems to be gambling on HDMI/DVI support becoming common features on players and TVs and that people are ready to upgrade.

I guess the lack of digital-ins is a bit less important when you factor in i.Link and USB. You can daisy-chain multiple devices on an i.Link connection so, in a sense, you have many more "digital-ins" albeit it at a premium price. I think this will more like be an issue for the 52/54 units which lack i.Link.
I agree with this. Component video is not that great and especially here in Europe it's a very rarely used connection. RGB-Scart is the standard here, and it looks like after that we're going to go straight to DVI/HDMI.

4 digital inputs is not that many, but it is true that the ilink and usb will help. I would have liked to see USB on the 52/54 models, but sadly they didn't get it.

Now my interests are turning toward the new Onkyo models, maybe they'll put the Nettune to the lower-end models 602/702.

[Gordon McGregor]

Originally posted by Shane Martin
That's a poor excuse due to the lack of HDMI switching on the unit..
If it had DVI switching I would cut them some slack but that isn't the case here either.
Actually we don't need HDMI switching yet, as only one available source with HDMI now is a player, which can be connected directly to a screen and managed through macro buttons in the remote. As soon as we will get cable boxes with HDMI, the situation will be changed. Therefore if the player will be connected through HDMI, we will have 2 component inputs still available - the same as in other receivers, where the third component input is occupied by the DVD player. Both 3805 and 773 also have no HDMI switching, right?

[Yung]

There is a picture of the rear of the VSX-56TXi on Pio's website now.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_4155_123728213,00.html

They hid the new 54TX and 56TXi models in their "older models" section. Can't hide from me!

Well at least the power cord is removable.

[dmtremblay]

Looks like 2 i-link inputs.

[Sounds Simple]

Looks like 2 i-link inputs.

The 55TXi had 2 i.Link ports as well; this is no change.

Bob

[dmtremblay]

Originally posted by Sounds Simple
The 55TXi had 2 i.Link ports as well; this is no change.

Bob

So I'm curious...why do so many require more than 4 digital inputs AND 2 i-link?

[Sounds Simple]

There is a picture of the rear of the VSX-56TXi on Pio's website now.

The power cord is now removable - that is an improvement.

It's kind of funny that the manual does not show the power cord as an included accessory - maybe they should have kept the captive cord. :)

(Oops - just saw the power cord listed on the next page. I think I may have been looking at the 55TXi manual when I wrote the above)

Bob

[Sounds Simple]

So I'm curious...why do so many require more than 4 digital inputs AND 2 i-link?

It'd pretty easy to use up the 4 connections: Cable, satellite, DVD, CD-R. Now what if I also want a dedicated CR-Player plus PlayStation?

As I said above, the 55TXi is really pretty well-connected if you are willing to pay the premium for i.Link devices. You can daisy chain up to 17 devices together on each port. Plus the USB allows you to play music from your computer even though I think Ethernet would be a better connection for computers as well as media servers and Internet radio (well, they'd have to provide an interface for Internet radio).

Bob

[dmtremblay]

I suppose I'm assuming most will be using i-link for DVD (once player prices drop). How many actually have cable and sattelite?

[Sounds Simple]

I think most people will use i.Link as the player price drops but people live in the here and now and often just want to connect their existing equipment to their new receiver. For these people, the lack of additional digital-ins is a hurdle.

How many actually have cable and sattelite?

You know, I used to think the same thing but it is surprising the number of people who have both. It's certainly a niche but there are also other possibilities. PlayStation and X-Box, instance. Actually, I wonder if Sony has any plans to do audio over their i>link on the PS?

Bob

[Sounds Simple]

I'd never really noticed before how inelegant the back panel of the Pioneer is. Connections seemed scattered all over the place.

Bob

[Sounds Simple]

Front view is now posted too. Looks identical to the 55TXi.

Bob

[nilsp]

Originally posted by Sounds Simple
...Pioneer is essentially late-to-market with DPLIIx and video up-conversion (many manufacturers addressed this with last year's models).

Yes, they are. I was disappointed last year, and I'm disappointed again this year. (The Marantz 8500 is looking better and better. 2 DVI in, 1 out. OK, should have been 3 or 4, but for less than $1200, what do you expect?)

I really don't get what Pioneer is up to. They are about to be seriously outrun by several players. I've always been a Pioneer fan, but I must admit, my loyalty is not what it once was. One should think they know that if there is one thing you cannot do in this business, it's resting on your laurels.

Oh well, might as well wait another year... (Budgeting issues. Read: Wife)

[Sounds Simple]

I really don't get what Pioneer is up to. They are about to be seriously outrun by several players. I've always been a Pioneer fan, but I must admit, my loyalty is not what it once was. One should think they know that if there is one thing you cannot do in this business, it's resting on your laurels.

One of the major problems that Pioneer has with such a modest upgrade is that it will be hard to point to new features to justify a major price premium over the Denon 3805 and, perhaps, other receivers to be announced in this price range (I'd be watching Integra closely). Then after Pioneer is forced to lower the price to compete, Denon will release a 3806 (or whatever) with enough new features to make the Pioneer look even more dated.

I'm reserving judgment until I can hear the 56TXi; perhaps there is enough of a performance gain that is not reflected in the specs which will make up for any perceived missing features. Pioneer has solid offerings but they are behaving as if the competition is standing still.

Bob

[Yung]

Originally posted by Sounds Simple
Front view is now posted too. Looks identical to the 55TXi.

Bob

Except for the shifting of a few logos, the only difference I notice is that the display output is more white as opposed to amber in the 55TXi. The look of the front panel on the elites hasn't really changed from the 45TX to the 55TXi to the 56TXi.

The picture of the 56TXi remote is posted now as well.

[Yung]

Originally posted by Sounds Simple
I'd never really noticed before how inelegant the back panel of the Pioneer is. Connections seemed scattered all over the place.

Bob

I would have to agree with this. Comparatively, the rear connections on the Denon 3805 looks well laid out, but then again, the PE models seem to have a fan which takes up a lot of space.

[Teeh]

I really thank ya'll for this thread and all the very informative posts. I've been planning to upgrade to a 7-channel AV receiver for more than three years, and had settled on the Pioneer Elite line because I like the promises of MCACC. However, the ability to set up the receiver to bi-amp the front main speakers is also very important to me. The old 43/47TXs as well as all 49/59s have this ability, but Pioneer didn't include this feature in the 53/55 models.

Because of this single feature, I'd planned and started saving to go all the way up to the 59TXi in order to use the otherwise wasted (in my case) rear surround amps to bi-amp the front main speakers. Now, lo and behold, according to the downloaded manuals for the 54TX and 56TXi, these receivers have this feature, but none of the other info specifically confirm this. I can't wait to find out. This feature, if really available on the 54/56s will save me a grand or so that I can invest in a better TV.

Again, thanks for all the posts.

[Yung]

Pictures of the front, back and remote of the VSX-54TX is now up on the Pio site as well. No USB and no removable power cord. Also the connections are not gold plated like the 56TXi and of course no ilink. Otherwise the layout is the same as the 56TXi. Remote looks the same as the one for the 53TX.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_4155_123557443_tab=B,00.html?compName=PNA_ProductDetailComponent

[Rimbaud]

I'd be willing to go back to a captive power cord if the 56TXi was manufactured in Japan (see rear photo). Isn't the 55TXi made in Japan?

Realistically, there is probably no issues with the Malaysian manufactured units, but I'm just funny that way.

[Yung]

Originally posted by Rimbaud
I'd be willing to go back to a captive power cord if the 56TXi was manufactured in Japan (see rear photo). Isn't the 55TXi made in Japan?

Realistically, there is probably no issues with the Malaysian manufactured units, but I'm just funny that way.

I think only the flagship 59TXi is made in Japan, the others are made in Malaysia or elsewhere.

Check this thread.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=252768&pagenumber=1

[Yung]

How much more can I expect to pay if I buy from an authorized b&m or internet dealer on the new PEs, particularly the 52TX and 54TX than this website.

http://www.soundpros.com/pioneer_elite_home.cfm

Has anyone ever used them? I know they sell on ebay too as does hookedontronics.

[JETninja]

I've heard good things about these guys

http://www.mwebinc.com/receiver/index.htm

....been watching them for awhile. Waiting now for the VSX-1014K to arrive, but a friend ordered a 914K from them last Wed, it should arrive Monday. Good prices and service, they're located in NJ. I think most BM's are usually closer to the MSRP in my experience....

[delling]

I saw VSX-55TXi @ GG last week for $999 which is an authorized dealer. They also had the new and curious Pioneer VSX-2012 as well for $499, which looked an awful lot like the 55TXi without the "i link"...??

[Stephen Hopkins]

A 2012 for $500 is a steal. It's pretty much a 45TX, no real differences, including full Auto-MCACC and the better LCD remote. All it really lacks from the 55TXi is i-link. It also has the ability to bi-amp your fronts using the back surround channels if you're not doing 7.1, a feature of the 43/45TX left out of the 53TX/55TXi.

[Yung]

Originally posted by delling
I saw VSX-55TXi @ GG last week for $999 which is an authorized dealer. They also had the new and curious Pioneer VSX-2012 as well for $499, which looked an awful lot like the 55TXi without the "i link"...??

Unfortunately for me there is no GG or Magnolia here on the east coast. I saw the VSX-55TXi here at a dealer in NYC for the same price, but they are no longer an authorized dealer for PE and only had a couple of units left which they said they were going to ship back to the manufacturer.

[Stephen Hopkins]

Thing is you can get the 2012 online as low as $600 + SH and regular Pioneer doesn't have the uber-strict warranty policies when it comes to online sales. Chances are anyone selling standard Pioneer is an authorized dealer. Heck, i even got Pioneer to do a warranty repair on a standard Pioneer product purchased on ebay based on the manufacturer date, so their warranty policies are nowhere near as strict outside the Elite name. If you can live w/out I.Link I would go w/ the 2012 or wait for the 1014 or 52/54TX. Most players that would have I.Link would have better DACs than these receivers anyway, so the analog connection would probably sound better unless you're using the receiver for BM.

[delling]

Originally posted by Yung
Unfortunately for me there is no GG or Magnolia here on the east coast. I saw the VSX-55TXi here at a dealer in NYC for the same price, but they are no longer an authorized dealer for PE and only had a couple of units left which they said they were going to ship back to the manufacturer.

Now is a good time to check in frequently with the authorized Elite dealers I think as the new models are coming soon, and current models "appear" to be dropping some right now in preparation for the new..?? The same day I saw the 55 TXi for $999 @ GG... I also saw it at another authorized dealer for $1079. If nothing else it may be a more opportune time right now to negotiate a better discount even if the "official" advertised price is still as it has been...??

Too bad you couldn't contact Pioneer and get special dispensation to make an "authorized" purchase from that dealer who just recently gave up authorization, but has the units that are being sent back to manufacturer...?? It seems it would save everybody to have to send back one less unit, while making one more happy customer..?? :)

[Teeh]

Originally posted by Stephen Hopkins
A 2012 for $500 is a steal. It's pretty much a 45TX, no real differences, including full Auto-MCACC and the better LCD remote. All it really lacks from the 55TXi is i-link. It also has the ability to bi-amp your fronts using the back surround channels if you're not doing 7.1, a feature of the 43/45TX left out of the 53TX/55TXi.

Are you sure that the 2012 can be set up to bi-amp the fronts? If you have a 2012 in front of you, please check this out for me. I was very interested in the 2012 when I saw it on vendor websites earlier this year, particularly stating bi-amping capability. After Pioneer people could not confirm whether it could bi-amp, I ordered the user manual from Pioneer and am very sure that it does not show any setup procedure for bi-amping the fronts. However, manuals for the 54 and 56 explicitly show and explain the bi-amping setup procedures.

If I can recall correctly, bi-amping is also not found on the 45TX, but is found on the 43/47/49/59s, and now the 54/56s.

I also could not confirm in the manual whether the 2012 has the audio delay feature that is found on all the newer models. This may be important if one uses certain digital TVs that can not produce video as quickly as audio.

Otherwise, as many members noted earlier this year, "the 2012 is an Elite [45TX] in disguise" and is an excellent value.

[Stephen Hopkins]

My statements on the 2012 being able to biamp were based on my assumption that the 45TX was able to as well. If it's not able to then I would guess the 2012 isn't able to either. I guess I've always seen the 45TX as a 43TX w/ auto-mcacc and a better remote and, therefore, very similar to the 43TX which I own. I guess they're more different than most (including me) think.

Based on the 52/54 being able to bi-amp, I would be lead to beleive that the 1014 will be as well.

[Landroval]

Does the 2012 have a detachable power cord?

[chepo61]

Good afternoon to all:

Haven't been in this forum for quite a while but I have been keeping track on this interesting thread as I to am keen on the pioneer elite line. So much so that I have just placed my order for the VSX-54TX which is shipping today. The new models are beginning to surface with various dealers. I bought mine through a person called Josh Lehman who is a rep for an authorized dealer of the elite line of products. For anybody interested, these are the prices he quoted me for the new elite models:

VSX-52TX - 691.00
VSX-54TX - 792.07
VSX-56TXi - 1,201.07

These prices include shipping. Shipment includes your invoice from the dealer himself for warranty purposes in case need be.

I'm not sure I can post emails here so if you're interested PM me and I will give you his email.

Regards, Joe

[Yung]

Once again, here is the breaking news.

The 54TX and 56TXi have mysteriously disappeared from the Pioneer site. THey were previously hidden in the Older models section and you were able to find them by doing a search for them, but now that option is gone as well. Manuals for the two elites are no longer on the site either.

However, I performed a search for the 52TX and a link for the VSX-1014TX-K came up. I am really curious as to the differences between these two models now. Anyway, here are the specs for the VSX-1014TX-K posted on the Pio site. Only slighly over 19 lbs?! That can't be right! Even the VSX-914K weighs more than that at 23lbs.

There is also a picture of the receiver and remote as well. The remote looks to be the same as the one for the 914-K. Seems they dropped the MSRP by $50 and upped the wattage from the original press release. With the MSRP of the 52TX suppose to be $1K, I don't really think its worth the $350 difference just to get an additional 1 yr warranty on the elite unit if they are indeed the same. Only 2 component inputs too. This unit seems like a bit of a step back from when Pioneer released the VSX-2012K last year, but then again the price is a lot lower on the 1014K. (Update: The 1014TX-K now shows in the pull down menu for the regular Pioneer A/V receivers).

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/press/release/detail/0,,2076_4313_44890147,00.html


http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_4153_130866598,00.html

VSX-1014TX-K
THX Select A/V Receiver with MCACC
M.S.R.P. $650.00


Power
Power Amplifier Design A.D.E MOS FET
Surround Power 110 W x 7 (20HZ - 20kHZ @ 8 ohm, 0.09% THD)
Stereo Power 110 W x 2 (20HZ - 20kHZ @ 8 ohm, 0.09% THD)
Digital Decoding & Processing
Digital Engine Motorola 48-Bit / 180 MIP
THX Select
Dolby Digital 5.1 Yes
Dolby Digital EX Yes
DTS 5.1 Yes
DTS-ES Discrete 6.1 Yes
DTS 96/24 Yes
DTS-Neo6 Yes
Pro-Logic II DPLIIx
Pioneer Advanced Theater Modes Advanced Surround 8 Mode
Virtual Surround Back Yes
Mid Night Listening Yes
Loudness Yes
MCACC Yes
Speaker Configuration Yes
Speaker Size Yes
Speaker Level Yes
Speaker Distance Yes
Acoustic Equalization 4 Band
Analog to Digital Conversion 96kHZ / 24-Bit
Digital Analog Conversion (DAC) 192 kHZ / 24- Bit
Connectivity
Audio (Tuner Included) / Video Input 8 Audio / 5 Video
Audio/Video Output 2 Audio / 2 Video
Digital Inputs 5
Optical In 3
Coaxial In 2
Optical Digital Output 1
Multi-Channel Input 6 Channel
Audio Preamp Output 7 Channel
Composite Video Input 5
Composite Video Output 2
S-Video Input 5
S-Video Output 2
Component Video Input 2
Component Video Output 1
Headphone Output Yes
Front A/V Inputs Yes
AC Outlet 1
Banana Speaker Terminal Yes
SR Control SR+
Speaker A/B A/B
Construction
Front Panel Aluminum
Conveniences
Remote Type LCD Preprogram / Smart
Dimensions
Dimensions (W * H * D) 16.5 x 6.8 x 18.26
Weight 19 lbs 12 oz
Warranty
Warranty 1 year parts and labor

Here is a vendor which lists the VSX-1014TX with slightly more detailed specs.
http://www.4electronicwarehouse.com/products/home/receiver/pioneer/vsx-1014tx/

[Yung]

Here is another picture of the VSX-1014TX-K from another site.

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20040110/ces07.htm

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20040110/ces7_06.jpg

The sticker says auto MCACC which is better than just MCACC listed in the specs above.

[Yung]

This is the description of the the VSX-1014TX-K on product page of the Pio website. Curiously it refers to the VSX-52TX.

This powerful, versatile receiver brings serious home theater performance. THX Select brings high-octane theater sound to typical TV rooms, for the best movie experience possible. Automatic MCACC (Multi-Channel Acoustic Calibration System) with 5-band EQ offers studio-quality set-up and calibration of your system, and it works in any room. The VSX-52TX delivers a full 110 watts x 7, with MOSFET amplification circuitry that ensures clean, efficient power at the precise instant it’s called for by a song, a movie, or an explosive game soundtrack. Dolby Pro-Logic IIx can create an amazing 7.1 channels from 2-channel sources, putting new life into 2 channel material. And Video Conversion converts S-Video and composite video into component video, so you only need one video connection out to your TV/monitor.

[big boi]

chepo61, are you sure your dealer is authorized? those prices are really low.

[Yung]

Okay, the links I posted before for the 54TX and 56Txi still work.
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_4155_123557443,00.html?compName=PNA_ProductDetailComponent
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_4155_123728213,00.html?compName=PNA_ProductDetailComponent

Updated description of the 54TX and 56Txi are as follows.

VSX-54TX

This is powerful, feature-rich AV receiver that delivers serious home theater performance. Its dual Motorola 150-MIPS DSP digital core engine provides huge processing power, and its THX Select capability ensures mind-bending theater sound in a typical TV room—like yours. And for the best sound possible in that room, Advanced MCACC offers studio-quality set-up and calibration of your system, even measuring indirect sound reflections from your walls and ceiling. You can even control and visually monitor the process via an RS232C PC interface. Dolby Pro-Logic IIx can create an amazing 7.1 channels from 2-channel sources, putting new life into older material. Multi-Room lets you control the VSX-54TX from another room via remote, and Multi-Source enables control of multiple sources (such as CD player and tuner) by multiple users. The 110-watt x 7 VSX-54TX comes with 10 A/V inputs, a pre-programmed remote (with macro commands), and the Elite two-year warranty.


VSX-56TXi

Absolute power, absolute purity: the 110 watts x 7 VSX-56TXi provides dual interfaces for i-LINK (IEEE1394), the new industry standard for the transfer of multi-channel digital audio signals (such as DVD-Audio, SACD, and DTS) between a DVD player and a receiver. Its i-LINK Mercury chip set—co-developed by Pioneer and Texas Instruments—delivers PQLS-based signal transmission that is absolutely stable and jitter-free, and accomplishes it with one digital wire vs. 6 analog connections. Advanced MCACC provides studio-quality setup and calibration of your system to match the room it’s in, and even offers PC connectivity to visually monitor and control the process. For less interference from vibration and resonance, the VSX-56TXi’s heavy-duty construction includes a cast-iron insulator and a double-layered chassis. The giant main capacitors feature a 27,000uf capacity that provides instant and continuous reference-level power, and high-grade banana speaker terminals ensure clean output. Bottom line? The purest, most powerful audio possible. Comes with the Elite two-year warranty.

[Yung]

Specs for the 54TX from the Pio site are listed below.

VSX-54TX
THX Select A/V Receiver with Advanced MCACC
M.S.R.P. $1,500.00

Power
Power Amplifier Design A.D.E MOS FET
Surround Power 110 W x 7 (20HZ - 20kHZ @ 8 ohm, 0.09% THD)
Stereo Power 110 W x 7 (20HZ - 20kHZ @ 8 ohm, 0.09% THD))
Digital Decoding & Processing
Digital Engine Dual Motorola 48-Bit Processing
Dolby Digital 5.1 Yes
Dolby Digital EX Yes
DTS 5.1 Yes
DTS-ES Discrete 6.1 Yes
DTS 96/24 Yes
DTS NEO 6 Yes
Pro-Logic II DPL IIx
THX Yes
Surround EX Yes
Pioneer Original Surround Modes Advanced Surround 6 Movie / 6 Music
Virtual Surround Back Yes
Midnight Listening Yes
Loudness Yes
MCACC Advanced
Speaker Configuration Yes
Speaker Size Yes
Speaker Level Yes
Speaker Distance Yes
Acoustic Equalization 5- Band
Advanced MCACC (EQ Timing Adjustments) Yes
Acoustic Status Display via PC Yes
Analog to Digital Conversion 96 kHz / 24-Bit
Digital Analog Conversion (DAC) 192kHz/24-Bit Delta Sigma
Connectivity
Analog Audio Inputs 10
Analog Audio Outputs 4
Digital Inputs 5
Optical In 3
Coaxial In 2
Optical Digital Output 2
Multi-Channel Input 8 Channel
Audio Pre-Output 8 Channel
Composite Video Input 5
Composite Video Output 3
S-Video Input 5
S-Video Output 3
Component Video Input 2
Component Video Output 1
Component Video Conversion Yes
Component Video Frequency Response 100 MHz
Headphone Output Yes
Multi-Room and Source Output 1 A/V
Front A/V Inputs Yes
IR IN/Out Yes
12 Volt Trigger Yes
RS-232C Yes
System Remote Control Port Yes
SP Terminal Type Banana
Speaker A/B A/B, A+B
Adjustable Speaker Configuration Yes (2nd Zone /SB Channel / MR&MS)
Convenience
On-Screen Display Yes - All
Dot Matrix Display Yes
Remote Type Preprogrammed/Smart/Macro
Pre-programmed Yes
Learning Yes
Macro Commands Yes
Construction
Front Panel Aluminum
Transformer Stabilizer Yes
Direct Construction Yes
Warranty
Terms 2 years parts and labor
Dimensions
Width x Height x Depth 16 9/16 x 7 7/16 x 18 5/16
Weight 39.7 lbs

[JETninja]

I did find pictures on the Aussie site for both the 1014 and 2014....though Silver! Wish they came in that color here...would match everythig else...

http://www.pioneeraus.com.au/home_entertainment/receivers/vsxd812/image_library.html

[avaholic]

Originally posted by big boi
chepo61, are you sure your dealer is authorized? those prices are really low.

The dealer is authorized! Check the dealer on Pioneers site: ImageTek,
Josh is the like a broker for them!

Patrick

[chepo61]

As avaholic says, they are an authorized dealer. I was going to buy the 45TX from Josh last year when the issue arose about it having shutdown problems and settled for H/K instead at the time. This time around I finally bit the bullet and as mentioned my 54TX is on it's way!:D

[Stephen Hopkins]

Anyone know if there's any chance of a 2014i release in the US? I'm assuming from the i in the model number that it includes i.link. I'm doubting a US release since there's no Elite line in Australia and the 2014i may just be the model number for the 56TXi over there... anyone know for sure?

[Landroval]

Hi,

I got some unofficial info about the European equivalents of 56/54/52 models. The new AX5Ai will replace AX5i and it will probably be very similar to 56TXi. The model replacing the AX3 (53TX) will have i-link. The new sub AX3 model wont get i-link, but other than that it will probably be close the the bigger models. The 1014 will be equal to the sub-AX3 model and the 2014i will be equal to the new AX3. Also there could be no new AX-models and just the AX5Ai, 2014i and 1014.

[big boi]

any link for this dealer? i can't find them on the pioneer website nor anywhere else on the web for that matter.

[YvesC]

Originally posted by Landroval
Hi,

I got some unofficial info about the European equivalents of 56/54/52 models. The new AX5Ai will replace AX5i and it will probably be very similar to 56TXi. The model replacing the AX3 (53TX) will have i-link. The new sub AX3 model wont get i-link, but other than that it will probably be close the the bigger models. The 1014 will be equal to the sub-AX3 model and the 2014i will be equal to the new AX3. Also there could be no new AX-models and just the AX5Ai, 2014i and 1014.

Hi,

Do you happen to know when these new receivers will be available in Europe?

Yves

[chepo61]

Big boi, here it goes.....contact Josh Lehman at: jlehman@docdvd.com and he'll give you what ever you want. Trust me these people at Imagetek ARE an authorized dealer.

Have a GREAT DAY!!!

[big boi]

chepo61, thanks! so you have yours already?? which model?

[chepo61]

I purchased the 54TX....it's on it's way...shipped out yesterday to Laredo, TX...from there I a friend of mine who is in the area will bring it back to GDL, mexico for me!!!!!:D :D :D Which model are you interested in???

[big boi]

the 54 as well.

[dmtremblay]

Chepo61, you haven't heard anything concerning the availability of the 56txi, have you?

[YvesC]

Hi,

I didn't follow this thread until today, so maybe you already have my information.

Anyway, if you use the European references of Landroval (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4147703#post4147703) and you go to this site (http://www.pioneer-eur.com/eur/support_manuals.jsp?category=support/manuals), after which you click "Enter the European Database" you'll find all the (official;)) information about the new models

Yves

[chepo61]

I haven't heard any concrete news on the 56TXi but then again I hadn't heard any news on the 54TXi when I contacted Josh. When he qouted me on the availability of the 54TX he mentioned to that it might take 2 weeks or so to get them in....this was last week, this past friday he confirmed that he had 5 54TX's available and I immediately jumped on one of them...I would have gone for the 56TXi but I didn't have the budget for it. contact Josh and I'm sure he will help out.

[Sounds Simple]

Chepo61, you haven't heard anything concerning the availability of the 56txi, have you?

I was at a local Showcase/Tweeter yesterday and was told that they expect delivery to their DC on 9/14. The guy also told me that the 56TXi has Burr Brown DACs according to his rep but I don't know that I believe that. The Pioneer site shows that the 56TXi has delta-sigma DACs and the delta-Sigmas I saw on the BB site are mostly older designs. I think it is more likely that the unit continues to use the AKMs.

This guy was, without a doubt, the most obnoxious salesperson I have ever met and even more pompous than the jerk I had the run-in with last month. Both of these guys claim to have worked previously for Infinity which makes me wonder if they were both fired because of their attitudes or if this is where their attitudes were fostered.

I heard the 54 playing on Monitor Audio Silver 6 speakers. The sound was very detailed but seemed to be just a tad warmer than I remember listening on the 55TXi (I never listened to the 53). At any rate, the 54 seems to be a great unit.

Bob

[chepo61]

If the 54TX is a tad warmer then the 55TXi then I definitely could live with that since I have klipsch speakers which i understand go well with the Elites.

[Sounds Simple]

Like I said, it seemed warmer than when I listened to the same speakers in the same room on a 55TXi. But since it was not an A/B comparison please take this with a grain of salt (that's why I say "seemed").

Tubeguy is the expert with the Elite/Klipsch combo so it would be interesting to hear his thoughts on the new receivers with the Klipsch speakers once he's had an opportunity to audition them.

The 54 seems like a very solid unit and I am anxious to see the 56TXi.

Bob

[JETninja]

chepo61! (I lived in Guadalajara for a year in '74 as a 15 yr old! Sweet!)

Will that dealer of yours carry the VSX-1014 as well? Any website for him?

Thanks!

[big boi]

Originally posted by JETninja
Will that dealer of yours carry the VSX-1014 as well? Any website for him?

Thanks!

not that i could google up. if google doesn't find it then it doesn't really exist right? ;) i'm still waiting for a reply to my email to the guy. i actually already have one on order at the place where i bought the marantz SR7400 just about 2 weeks ago. i'm not happy with the marantz so i had them order the 54TX so i could exchange it. their price is only $100 more than chepo61 has quoted, but i'm not sure they'll actually have them in any time soon.

i want this thing ASAP!

[JETninja]

I tried Google for ImageTek, no luck.

Hey, just noticed on the Pioneer site that the Elite VSX-52TX and 1014TX share a lot of accesories including the service manual. Interesting....Pioneers specs on the site are still fubar for the 1014 (19lbs? S/B 33+) and I cant find anything for the 52TX..........

[pete GTP]

I purchased my 45TX from Josh last year. It does come from an authorized dealer. If you do a search of his name (maybe in the archives) you will find a lot of info. I believe he goes by the name docdvd here on the forums.

[Sounds Simple]

and I cant find anything for the 52TX..........

Have you tried contacting a Pioneer dealer. I believe I also saw the 52TX at Showcase/Tweeter yesterday. They manual should have the same specs as those that will be posted on the Pioneer site.

Bob

[cburbs]

So what are the big differences between the 52tx and 54tx?

[Stephen Hopkins]

I'm currious in the 52TX/54TX/1014TX comparrison. It looks like the 54TX adds dual DSP chips and advanced MCACC, is that all? Oddly it seems the 54TX has the same remote from the 43TX and 53TX which is a step down from the remote for the 52TX and 1014TX.

[chepo61]

Great to here you lived in GDL.....I can't answer the question about the VSX-1014, I would imagine so...as I mentioned to Big boi, send him an email and Josh will give you all the details....He's been very helpful to me.

[chepo61]

Big boi, please give us a heads up on Josh's response to you....He usually dosen't take to long to answer.....;)

[big boi]

sure thing. nothing so far though.

[Teeh]

I've been making a list of differences between the Pioneer VSX-54TX and the VSX-56TXi to see what features and capabilities I'd miss if I go for the 54 rather than the 56.

Comparing the operating instructions (manual) downloaded from the Pioneer website and other info provided on the website as well as info posted on this thread, I note the following upgrade items on the 56 compared to the 54;

a. i.Link interface (2)

b. USB input for 2-channel audio from a computer.

c. Direct connection of a turntable with a magnetic cartridge.

d. SACD playback dynamic range enhancement

e. SACD direct, bypassing all digital processing, for 192 kHz audio.

f. LCD remote with illuminated keys and programmable function display, requiring 4-AA cells rather than 2.

g. Heavy-duty construction factors: cast iron insulator, double-layer construction, gold plated connectors, 27,000 vs 22,000 uf capacitors, maybe different DACs also but important only to i.Link processing, and a detachable power cord.

h. 44.8 lbs versus 39.7 lbs, 5.9 pounds heavier probably due to build factors.

i. List price of $1700 versus $1500 for the 54TX, only $200 more.

j. Best price yet from authorized dealer is $1201.07 versus $792.07, $409 more.

k. Best price yet from an Internet vendor is $1095 versus $795, $300 more.

While there have been a few other items touted for the 56, I have not been able to confirm whether they are not found on the 54 as well. My list above contains the differences that I'm considering in making my choice.

In terms of capabilities, these receivers differ only by items a thru c (i.Link, USB and magnetic cartridge support), plus d and e for 192 kHz SACD playback through i.Link. The 56's remote is fancier with the LCD display and programmable input names and can control two more components, the 54's remote is no slough either. Though build quality is a factor, the published specifications for both units are identical. As far as I can determine, all other capabilities are identical, including advanced MCACC with professional acoustic calibration and graphical RS-232 output of the room's reverb characteristics.

Unless I've overlooked something here, for my present and near future use and with good prices available for both units, I'm not willing to pay $400 more for the 56, or maybe not even $300 more. However, for only $200 more than the lowest price of the 54, I'd quickly take the 56 over the 54.

Please let me know if my list is seriously ignorant of something.

[Johnla]

Originally posted by avaholic
The dealer is authorized! Check the dealer on Pioneers site: I*******,
Josh is the like a broker for them!
They might not be for much longer, or maybe they will even be forced to quit selling them this way. Now that you posted their name in a public forum, more than once now.

And don't think that it can't, or won't happen. Because it did before, to a authorized dealer that was selling both Denon and Yamaha for under MSRP. And it was mentioned in the forums here, that they were doing so. And within about 2 months they were "notified", by both Denon and Yamaha to stop doing so.

It really would probably be best, if you edit out the dealers name from all those posts. And if someone asks, then send them a PM with the info. Instead of posting it in public.

[Sounds Simple]

Teeh-

I have some up with basically the same feature differences although your comparison is more comprehensive.

I'm really not sure what to think about the DACs. The pompous ass I dealt with yesterday says his rep told him that the 56TXi would have BBs (but he said several other things which were untrue - for instance, that the 54TX had a lower power rating). The info on the Pioneer site mentions delta-sigma DACS which would suggest AKMs since most the newer BB DACs are advanced segment. OTOH, I think the receiver sounded a tad warmer than the 55TXi which could be the result of different DACs.

For me personally, the i.Link and USB connection are big pluses. I'm still waiting to decide if I want to go with the 59AVi or the replacement for the 47Ai.

Bob

[Landroval]

Here's some more info on the European models.

The 1014 and 2014i seem very similar, the 2014i only has i-link, but no USB like the AX5. Also the 2014i has a detachable power cord while the 1014 does not.

The weights are:
AX5Ai: 21,2 kg = 46,7 lbs
2014i: 15,6 kg = 34,4 lbs
1014: 15,4 kg = 34,0 lbs
---------------------------
AX5: 19,8 kg = 43,7 lbs
AX3: 18,4 kg = 40,6 lbs

[ArchieGates]

Geez, here I was all set on the Denon 3805 and now because of the whole "no SACD over Denon Link" issue, the Pioneer looks attractive. Yet, I can't get over the fact that the Denon has the Burr Browns and the DCDi component video up-conversion. I just upgraded my speakers to Boston Acoustics VR reference series, and I need a receiver with more guts than my current 4 year-old mid level Yamaha.

[Johnla]

Originally posted by ArchieGates
Yet, I can't get over the fact that the Denon has the Burr Browns and the DCDi component video up-conversion.
I don't know where you got that information from...
But the Denon 3805 definitely does not have DCDi component video up-conversion!

[ArchieGates]

Originally posted by Johnla
I don't know where you got that information from...
But the Denon 3805 definitely does not have DCDi component video up-conversion!

Yes, I don't know where I got that either. Probably because it's 3AM right now. If I don't get to bed soon, the Denon 3805 is going to include Blu-Ray support too.

[Bill Mac]

I have also decided on the 56txi. I was going to get the 3805 to replace my 3802 but feel the 56txi will offer much more as far as being able to use different components not just Denon products (Denon link vs. i-link). Although I haven't really listened to any of the Elite recievers but have heard many positive reviews.

I e-mailed Denon on the issue of their link and when it would be compatible with SACD but have not heard back from them. I don't feel like spending the money on the 3805 and not have this feature.

Bill

[big boi]

josh said they have BOTH units in stock- the 54tx and the 56txi. i thought the 56txi wasn't due out till mid-september. in any case the prices are exactly what was quoted here earlier and include shipping.

[cburbs]

Quick question:
So what is the big difference between the 53tx and 54tx.

To me the gains look like the 54 adds:
Advanced MCACC (EQ Timing Adjustments) and Acoustic Status Display via PC
PLIIx

Is this the only upgrades?

So if I can get a used 55txi for around $750 which would you take the 53/54/55txi?

[ifor]

we have all the units as well.
the 54 and 56 came in last night.

[big boi]

well it depends. you left out that the new units up the video bandwidth to 100mhz. to me, the 40mhz is probably insufficient. i notice degradation of the signal on the marantz sr7400 which i don't think has 100mhz bandwidth available. so, do you have an SACD/DVDA player? do you have a 7.1 system? will you route any component video sources through this?

if you have SACD, but not 7.1, and no component sources then i think the 55txi is the best choice.

if you have 7.1 or component sources, but not SACD then the 54tx is the best choice.

if you have none of the above then maybe the 53tx is good.

if you have all of the above then save up for the 56txi.

[cburbs]

Big Boi,
I have 5.1....don't see 7.1 anytime soon.
I have the Pioneer 563a sacd/dvd-a player
The only time I might use the Component is when I get HDTV for football season

I think it is really between the 54 and 55txi and is the I-link worth it.

I think the 54 will have a better auto setup than the 55 and PLIIx, Video up conversion and 100mhz vs the 40.....

Is the above correct when comparing the 55 and 54?

[thepep]

I just ordered the 56TXi from Josh at Imagetek. It is supposedly shipping today. Can't wait to get it. This is a replacement for my Denon 3300.

[chepo61]

GOOD NEWS STEVE!!!!

I'm also eager to get my 54TX...mine shipped on tuesday and it will arrive in laredo this coming monday...after that I still have to wait for a friend of mine to pickup in laredo and bring back to mexico, so I'll probably be having in my hands until late next week.

[big boi]

Originally posted by cburbs
Big Boi,
I have 5.1....don't see 7.1 anytime soon.
I have the Pioneer 563a sacd/dvd-a player
The only time I might use the Component is when I get HDTV for football season

I think it is really between the 54 and 55txi and is the I-link worth it.

I think the 54 will have a better auto setup than the 55 and PLIIx, Video up conversion and 100mhz vs the 40.....

Is the above correct when comparing the 55 and 54?

that's about right. if i had an sacd player with ilink already i'd definitely get a receiver with ilink.

[Stephen Hopkins]

Anyone with any 52TX vs. 54TX info? I'm probably leaning most strongly toward the 1014 or the 52TX but am interested what the 54TX would have to offer. Advanced Auto-MCACC is the big thing I see but not sure if it's worth the large price difference, especially compared to the 1014 that's probably gonna street for around $500 and looks to be exactly the same as the 52TX.

I have no SACD or DVD-A player or desire to listen to high-rez music. I switch PS2 and HDTV through component. I'm currently running a 5.1 Swan Diva setup but would like to move to 7.1 when I go to a larger room next summer. I currently have a 43TX.

[Sounds Simple]

we have all the units as well.
the 54 and 56 came in last night.

So, in addition to all the other BS I got from the new jerk At Showcase/Tweeter, I guess it takes 5.5 weeks for them to get their units to the store. I was told two days ago that the 56TXi would be in their Chicago warehouse on 9/14.

So, who's gonna post the first review of their new receiver? And why has Pioneer still not officially posted the specs on their site?

Bob

[dmtremblay]

I broke down and ordered the 56txi. It should be here next week. Yes, it is strange that Pioneer hasn't updated the web site even though these units are obviously available. I've checked several local dealers, though, and they don't expect shipment until sometime around the end of August. One dealer in particular who was the 1st dealer in the country to receive the 59txi told me they won't receive the 56 until September.

[Sounds Simple]

told me they won't receive the 56 until September.

Dagnabbit!!

Since my house won't be finished until the third week of September, it doesn't really matter much except that I want to listen to the unit just to make sure I'm gonna like it.

Bob

[JETninja]

I emailed Pioneer to fix the website...errors on the 1014 page, and of course the missing ones.

He emailed me as well, wont have the standard line for a bit. He quoted me under $700 for the 52TX....too much since it and the 1014 seem to be close twins (they share the same service manual) minus the "elite" name and an extra year warranty, not yet sure what other differences.

$xxx shipped. 52 multiroom/multisource, IR in and out, transformer stabilizer 2x1 7.1 DPLIIx

I will have the standard line receivers, they just don't ship as early.