Rogers Cable Toronto SA 8000HD Box

[Jim Boden]

For those in the Toronto area who plan to, or already have the SA 8000HD box, there are several known problems with the box which Rogers hasn’t fixed. IMO, the biggest one is persistent audio drop outs when you play back a recording where there are black screens (movie credits, fading to black, and the like). I’m not certain if this happens with all recordings but it always happens with HD and DD 5.1. The audio drops out after a black screen. When it kicks back in, it often comes back at a very low volume or it just generates noise. Reversing and restarting play back fixes it.

I have been on Rogers case about this since day one (early June), so they are aware of the problem. They even gave me a ticket number to track it, so we’ll see what happens.

For others in Toronto getting the box, post your experiences here and, by all means, get after Rogers about them.

[space2001]

hey jim I finally got the box, seems fine right now, but havn't record much in hd yet, so I will try recording something in hd, but right now I am loiving it.

[Jim Boden]

space2001:

Glad to hear you're happy so far. One other complaint I have is no ability to output SD simultaneously. When you watch SD, recordings in particular, the quality is pretty bad (soft and fuzzy) and I can't pass it to my scalar. I also have a purchased 3250HD box, so I watch SD from it instead through my scalar, which is much better.

I may return the 8000HD because, although it’s nice to record HD, it’s not critical for me. Overall, I’d say the performance of the 3250HD is better than the 8000HD. At $25 per month, the 8000HD isn’t exactly cheap, either.

[space2001]

yah I know what you mean, really going to test it in the next couple of weeks to see if its worth it, I just get frustrated beasue the movie network schedule for hd movies are all over the place, and I am never home when they are on, so I am just glad I can tape it now. so hopefully they can fix the glitches.

[Jim Boden]

space2001:

One good thing is that HD recordings are very good, except for the audio glitches.

[Jim Boden]

Bump.

[mfabien]

Jim, concerning SD PQ...

I get best picture for SD via the S-Video output from the SA8000HD to Video1 in my Toshiba.

Procedure I use is:

while using the component output/input, I press the PIP button then select my desired SD channel. I then press the SWAP button to get the SD channel in the small PIP screen. Finally, I use the TV remote and select the Video1 input.

While in Video1, I can change channels by increment of one with the + or - toggle on the PIP line of buttons or I can enter a channel number then press the SWAP button and it comes up.

The above procedure is less desirable for a replay as you cannot use the FF, pause and Rewind buttons while in Video1.

Once my DVI connection gets activated, the Auto-Format facility may keep me in the DVI input for SD but not sure I will have the same PQ as with the S-Video.

[Jim Boden]

mfabien:

Thanks for the advice. I have tried using PIP to get the SD output, but I'm mostly interested in passing the play back of an SD recording to my scalar. In another thread, someone mentioned the 8000HD should be set to 480i and that it will send output to the SD outputs, so I will try that to see if it works for recording play back. In the meantime, I’ve been using my 3250HD for sending SD material to my scalar.

I have mixed feelings about the 8000HD and may return it. I’ve logged some problems with Rogers, which promised to respond to my concerns several days ago, but nothing yet. In another thread, I asked if Videotron is using SARA or Passport and what firmware levels they are using in your area.

Any info on this would be much appreciated.

Thanks again.:)

[mfabien]

Using the top row RCA inputs on the SA8000HD and connecting them to my VCR and from there to my TV's Video2 input, I can record on tape. Or I can select the Archiving option to VCR and it does so (understand that has not been activated yet with Rogers). Of course I have cable going from STB to VCR to Antenna1 (top cable input in TV's back panel). I remind you that my cable service is 100% digital and therefore all cable signals must go through the 8000 before reaching the TV.

Making use of the RCA Video cable will format in 480i automatically.

Videotron is currently using SARA version 1.83.4.2 updated 03-31-04.

It appears that Videotron users have less problems with the DVR than Rogers. Here are the present versions in Montreal and you can compare them with your unit:

ROM image = 1.83.4.2
OS = 6.4.7.1
SARA = 1.83.4.2
PowerKEY LIB = 3.5.21.0
HAL2 Driver = 2.0.50.0
PHAL3 Driver5 = 3.5.7.3

[Jim Boden]

mfabien:

Great, thanks for the info. My versions are all older than yours, mostly dated February 04. I've been after Rogers about this, so will be chasing them again.

[mfabien]

Here is a link to the HDTVoice board's SA8000HD thread and copy of correspondance with Rogers.

http://www.hdtvoice.com/voice/showthread.php?t=10330&page=1&pp=39

See post number 39

[dt_dc]

Jim Boden,

Does your scaler take 480i input via component?

If so ... I'd set up the 8000HD to enable 480i output via component and use that.

Outlined here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4034479#post4034479

Oh ... and just for reference ... my software versions (Cox, Fairfax) ... mostly dated in May

ROM image = 1.83.4.8
OS = 6.4.9.1
SARA = 1.83.4.8
PowerKEY LIB = 3.5.21.4
HAL2 = 1.1.13.140
ATI = 2.0.51.211
PHAL3 = 3.5.8.2

[Jim Boden]

mfabien:

Thanks for the link. I'll keep my eye on that board.:)

[Jim Boden]

dt_dc:

Yes, my scalar will accept 480i via component. That would probably work fine if the 8000HD had 2 component outputs, which it does not. My component connection goes to my plasma and I only use it for HD and, unfortunately, playing back SD recordings.

Someone else recommended that I switch the output to 480i when watching SD. They claim the SD output on the box will be activated, so I'm going to try it. If that works, it solves my problem.

[mfabien]

Originally posted by Jim Boden
Someone else recommended that I switch the output to 480i when watching SD. They claim the SD output on the box will be activated, so I'm going to try it. If that works, it solves my problem.

Press the "Settings" button once. Then scroll down to Format and change from 1080i to 480i or 480p. Press the "SEL" center button (keep pressure until screen gets black). You are know viewing 480 with the component output. When ready to view HD, repeat the process and select 1080i.

[Jim Boden]

mfabien:

Thanks for the info. The first thing I have to do is run the setup wizard to get 480i, which I'm not using right now.

[mfabien]

Suggest you use the advance setup instructions and configure the formats in the following order:

480i
480p
720p
1080i

The last one (1080i) will become the default. Incoming signals in 720p will be converted to 1080i.

For SD you will have a choice between 480i and 480p. If one day you use the DVI connection, the Auto Format feature will use 1080i for HD and 480p for SD.

The advance setup instructions are in your SA guide book. Use the keys at the terminal as suggested.

[Jim Boden]

mfabien:

Thanks again. I've actually done it a few times, so am familiar with the procedure.:)

[Jim Boden]

Well, this box is truly a joke. I can’t imagine anyone in their right minds designing a cable box which doesn’t output SD at the S-Video or Composite outputs when you switch the video mode to 480i. The only way it works is with the pathetic PIP feature, which doesn’t work when you’re playing back SD recordings. The SA engineers obviously don’t know much about what people really want/need in a decent cable box.

Just to make matters worse, I called Rogers again about the audio dropout problems and their back level software. I was given a “ticket” on July 3 and was promised someone would call me back within 24/48 hours, which they did not. I called them today, 11 days later, and was told by the guy on the phone that the problem was fixed. He’s dreaming in Technicolor. The problem hasn’t been fixed and SARA is still at the same version as early June.

I’m keeping my 3250HD and returning this piece of crap. Good luck to the rest of you. I hope you have more patience than I do. It’s outrageous Rogers has the nerve to charge $25 per month for something so bad.

[Jim Boden]

Still hanging on, despite my criticisms. If I can get SD recordings to play back via S-Video, I may keep it. Someone else said it should work, but I can't get it to work with PIP.

Anyone else tried this?

[mfabien]

Jim,

Connect the S-Video cable to Video1 in the TV back Panel.
Once you have your SD playback on screen, press PIP then SWAP to get the playback in the smaller PIP screen. Now with your TV remote, you can select Video1 and see your playback.

However, this way you lose playback control (Pause, FF etc.)

What I do is view playbacks on the Component input and with Settings change the picture format to 480i. I get comparable PQ and retain playback control with the DVR remote.

[Jim Boden]

mfabien:

Thanks. I'm pretty sure I tried it and it didn't work. I'll give it another shot.

[space2001]

hey guys, just wondering for us in toronto , whats active on the box now, is the firewire working if so what can we record from it.

[mfabien]

Firewires and DVI ate not activated as yet anywhere on the SA8000HD.

The only DVR that has an active Firewire is the Mitsubishi 6208 but that one appears not to be fully activated...it presently has no option to archive to a D-VHS deck and it appears to restrict recording of live programming to certain channels only (the big four commercial channels).

We are wondering what will happen when Broadcasters start putting Copy Flags in their Broadcast and some of us doubt that DVR's have been understood and fully tested as DVR's, and not only as STB's, under the HDCP content protocol.

[space2001]

thanks for the info. would love to backup some of my hd recordings

[jmbeam]

I am not very happy either with the performance of this unit with High Definition broadcasts. The picture and sound keeps dropping off. It defeats the purpous of having a high definition box.

I was also wondering what screen is the best to watch HD shows. When watching a HD program should I watch on stretch screen? Either way when doing this I missing the credits when they appear on the screen. When I watch it on normal it looks okay then when a commercial comes on it goes to the 4-3 screen.

[mfabien]

Originally posted by jmbeam
I am not very happy either with the performance of this unit with High Definition broadcasts. The picture and sound keeps dropping off. It defeats the purpous of having a high definition box.

I was also wondering what screen is the best to watch HD shows. When watching a HD program should I watch on stretch screen? Either way when doing this I missing the credits when they appear on the screen. When I watch it on normal it looks okay then when a commercial comes on it goes to the 4-3 screen.

HD programs have the 16:9 aspect by default. Your screen setting must be at "Normal". During such HD programs, most commercials are SD which explains why you have side bars.

Then you have a great deal of SD programs on an HD channel. For those, you select one of the Theater Wide screen formats using your TV remote. The SA8000HD remote can give you a Stretch and a Zoom mode by pressing the "#" key.

As for Video and Sound drop-off, call your provider and make a complaint. This should be resolved by a software update transmitted by your provider. Worst case, have them replace the unit.

[Jim Boden]

jmbeam:

Please put your location in your profile. If you're in the Toronto area, I agree with your comments about HD not being terrific. I also have a 3250HD, which has a much better picture (sharper and brighter).

I've been after Rogers tech support for months about getting their software up-to-date, but have been completely ignored so far. They even gave me a problem ticket number, which is totally useless.

Rogers generally provides decent tech support but, for the 8000HD, it has been unacceptable. I'm hoping the 8300HD gets released here as I understand it's a much better box. It also provides simultaneous SD output, which the 8000HD does not.

[space2001]

well lets hope they do that, rogers always gives me problems even with high spped

[jmbeam]

I am in the Central New York region of Time Warner services. I have written to the President of TW along with the local Director without anycourtesy of a reply. It is comical how little anyone at Time Warner knows about their equipment and HDTV programming.
Can anyone provide any contacts that I could try to rectify my problems?

I am swapping out my Sa-8000HD DVR for the SA-8300HD DVR but unfortunately they have to send a technician to do this for me! What a waste of money and manpower to do this. I should be able to walk into a TW office and swap them out myself.

[Jim Boden]

jmbeam:

This thread is for Rogers in Toronto. There is a monster thread for TW, which is a "sticky" Note at the top of the first page of this forum. It's extremely long, but you might try posting a new question there.

It's definitely ridiculous that a cable company would insist on having a technician come out for something so trivial. In Toronto, we can do whatever we want ourselves, including buying the box instead of renting.

There is also a relatively new thread for the 8300HD which I've been following, as this box interests me.

[smoore]

I am currently using the SA 3250HD Box with a JVC D-ILA rear projection set and I have been considering replacing it with the 8000HD box. Do I correctly understand that while I am able to use the DVI output on the 3250 that it is not enabled on the 8000HD. I have been very happy with the PQ using the HDMI input on the JVC and would hate to give it up.

Does anyone know when Rogers might get the 8300. I might be better to wait for it.

[Jim Boden]

smoore:

DVI has not been activated on the 8000HD. From what little I know, it's going to be a long time coming unless Rogers does a big upgrade. So far, I haven't been able to get them to do an upgrade to fix a bunch of known problems, never mind activating DVI. I’ve had the 8000HD for over 5 months and constantly pestering them has made no difference. I also have a 3250HD and much prefer it over the 8000HD for PQ and its simultaneous SD output.

I’m interested in the 8300HD because it does simultaneous SD output, which the 8000HD does not. It’s also a video distribution system, so you can watch recorded programs from other TV’s in your home if connected to another SA digital box.

I haven’t asked Rogers about the 8300HD, but there’s no mention of it on their web site. Depending on what’s important, you may want to skip the 8000HD and wait. Of course, it you want to record HD right now, then the 8000HD is the only game in town, other than satellite.

[smoore]

Thanks for the information. I really don't want to give up the DVI out. I cannot understand why they would activate it on the 3250 but not the 8000. I think I will sit tight for a little while and see what develops.

[Jim Boden]

smoore:

Just a guess, but the 3250 has been out for a lot longer than the 8000. This probably means they've had time to plan and install upgrades, such as DVI support.

[smoore]

I spoke with technical support last night at Rogers. About 2 weeks ago they started renting the SA 8300 PVR. It has an active HDMI out. I guess I am going to have to buy a new cable. I plan to get it in the next few days.

[Jim Boden]

smoore:

I just bought the 8300HD and like it a lot better than my rental 8000HD, which I'm returning. I'm certain the HDMI is active because the audio portion shows up in the audio menu. I understand you can also use it for DVI if you get the right cable.

[mfabien]

... I'm certain the HDMI is active because the audio portion shows up in the audio menu. I understand you can also use it for DVI if you get the right cable.

My SA8000HD General_Settings include settings for audio even though the DVI is yet to become active.

On the other hand, most US posters who have the 8300 do mention that their HDMI output is active.

[smoore]

I have been assured by Rogers cable in Toronto that the HDMI out is active. I was using the 3250HD box and only have a DVI to HDMI cable. I hope to get an HDMI cable tomorrow and I will post the result. I can tell you that the PQ through the component inputs does not seem to be quite as good as the picture I was getting using the digital in with the 3250HD box.

[smoore]

I picked up the HDMI cable tonight and hooked it into the the JVC and it works just fine. It appears, however, that I cannot have digital in to the TV speakers and Dolby Digital to the stereo receiver at the same time. However, I am going to experiment some more. The PQ with the HDMI is definitely superior to that with the component cables. The picture is too soft with the component cables.

I have tried a couple of HD recordings. The picture is pretty good but the recorded picture is softer than the original broadcast.

[mfabien]

Smoore,

Connect the digital output in your JVC's back panel to your A/V (which I believe you did) and either put your TV speakers OFF (for stereo), or, use them as Center Channel speaker (for DD5.1 EX) with the appropriate audio cable output going to the receiver and with Center Channel switch ON in your the JVC's back panel (but it is best to install a Center channel of the same make as your front speakers).

[Jim Boden]

smoore:

I don't see why the recorded PQ would be different from the live one. AFAIK, the box always plays back from the hard drive, whether you're watching live or playing back a recording. This is how you're able to pause, backspace, etc. during a live broadcast and it also accounts for the 1 hour buffer which wouldn't be possible without using the hard drive.

[smoore]

Jim Boden:

You are right. I watched a recording of West Wing last night and found the picture soft. However, I have now watched a couple of other shows and they are fine. I suspect that the broadcast version of West Wing is soft.

I still cannot get the sound from the HDMI to my TV speakers. I have set the JVC to "digitial audio" on digitial in and I have set the PVR to HDMI audio. I even tried disconnecting the coaxial cable out but I cannot get any sound from my TV speakers. I have also tried the output on the PVR at fixed and variable (with volume to the max). I don't know if the problem is with the PVR or with the TV.

I will probably call Rogers first for assistance on this.

Incidentally, if I stop the playback of a recording the only way I seem to be able to get back to live TV is to change the channel. I have tried hitting the live tv, list, menu, guide and stop buttons but it keeps tacking me back to a paused version of the show I was watching or the list screen. Is their a simpler way to get back to live tv from a stopped playback? Thanks.

[mfabien]

Smoore,

Your playbacks are from channel 998...therefore, if you wish to stop and listen to live TV, you must input a channel or else. you remain set to the playback channel for another playback selection.

[smoore]

Originally posted by mfabien
Smoore,

Your playbacks are from channel 998...therefore, if you wish to stop and listen to live TV, you must input a channel or else. you remain set to the playback channel for another playback selection.

thanks for the information. that explains why the tv is on channel 8?? when i change channels after watching a program.

[Jim Boden]

smoore:

AFAIK, the volume controls do not affect any of the digital outputs, which I assume includes HDMI. Changing audio to fixed or variable won't do anything for you. I assume the volume on the TV is turned up?

Let us know if Rogers comes up with an answer for you.

[smoore]

Jim Boden:

I talked with Rogers technical support this morning. They advise me that the HDMI sound is not enabled on the box notwithstanding that there is menu for digital out that is enabled. I have all my sound routed to the receiver through the coaxial out so this doesn't really matter to me. I just wanted to make sure that the set wasn't defective.

I never had the 8000HD PVR so I cannnot comment on the criticisms you had of the box. I can tell you that so far I am impressed with the 8300HD PVR. It seems to work well, is easy to understand, functions perfectly with my Harmony remote and I love the live tv replay feature. My wife is in real estate and we get interrupted all the time. With this PVR we can just pick up after she finishes her phone call.

Now the only thing I have to bi*** about this weekend is the fact that the Grey Cup game is not being broadcast in HD.

[Jim Boden]

smoore:

Thanks for the response on HDMI audio. It seems strange it's been enabled for video but not audio. These boxes have so many features it's hard to tell what has been enabled and what hasn't. For example, I understand the support for an external SATA drive is not enabled and I doubt the 1394 ports are either.

The main difference between the 8000 and the 8300 is SD out is always active on the 8300, which is a huge advantage over the 8000 for me. Because I can now pass SD to my NRS scalar, I get much, much better PQ than before.

I agree with you about the Grey Cup. As usual, the CBC is in the dark ages when it comes to the implementation of current technology. I remember it took them years longer than any other TV station to implement stereo audio.

Completely OT, but have you even seen TSN broadcast anything in HD on its HD channel? I was very disappointed in them this past summer when they didn't show any baseball in HD, but their competition, Sportsnet, always does.

[smoore]

Jim Boden:

I have only had HDTV for a month so I am not all that familiar with TSN's offering. However, I have not seen any original programming on TSN only third party stuff they are rebroadcasting.

Have you noticed channel 197 which says it is TEST 5. No one at Rogers knows what it is but I am hoping it will turn out to be test patterns. I think there may be a similar thing at channel 994 for HiDef. I am told they expect whatever it is to be available early next year.

[Jim Boden]

smoore:

I haven't noticed channel 197. I don't need test patterns, because I have a Sencore signal generator, which produces everything I need to calibrate my system.

[mfabien]

Some posters already have the new SA8300HD and use the HDMI output to the HDTV.

Question: If you connect a digital audio cable from the TV's back panel to your a/v receiver, can you get DD5.1 sound or is it limited to DD2.0?

It appears that TV's equipped with HDMI will not transmit 5.1 (only DD2.0) from the digital audio port in the back panel and one must connect the STB to the a/v receiver with a digital sound cable

Comments?

[smoore]

mfabian:

I believe that you are correct but I cannot test the theory because my cable company has not enabled the audio out for HDMI and I don't have a 5.1 output on my TV. I have noticed that programs recorded on this PVR are recorded in two channel digital even if they are broadcast in 5.1. I am not surprized that they will not allow us to record in 5.1.

[smoore]

Jim Boden:

Last week I asked CBC if they when they were going to implement HDTV. They advised me by e mail that upgrades in Toronto are to be performed next year.

[mfabien]

Originally posted by smoore
mfabian:

I believe that you are correct but I cannot test the theory because my cable company has not enabled the audio out for HDMI and I don't have a 5.1 output on my TV. I have noticed that programs recorded on this PVR are recorded in two channel digital even if they are broadcast in 5.1. I am not surprized that they will not allow us to record in 5.1.

I have the SA8000HD and I have an optical audio cable between the DVR and my a/v receiver. DD 5.1 works out without a glitch

The HDMI limitation I have pointed out concerns TV's with HDMI inputs (and not STB/DVR's). Logically an HDTV with an HDMI input, you would think that the digital audio output port in the back panel would enable DD 5.1, if connected to an amplifier/processor. But reports are that the TV's back panel output is limited to DD stereo.

And that's my question, true or false?

[Jim Boden]

smoore:

Thanks for the info about the CBC. When they get their HD act together, I guess they'll be doing hockey and football in HD. I can hope, at least.:D

[Jim Boden]

smoore:

The 8300HD does record DD 5.1, as did the 8000HD. I've never had a problem with it.

[mfabien]

Originally posted by Jim Boden
smoore:

The 8300HD does record DD 5.1, as did the 8000HD. I've never had a problem with it.

How?

How is your a/v getting the digital sound, from the DVR? Via digital sound cable (optical or coax) directly from the DVR or from a digital cable from the TV's back panel because your HDMI connects the DVR to the TV?

[Jim Boden]

mfabien:

Coax digital cable from the DVR. I don't have an HDMI display, so don't use it.

[John Mason]

Have Toronto cable firms distributed 8000HD firmware that provides 1080i without a 'soft' look? Got 8000HDs only recently in NYC from Time Warner, and resolvable HD detail is waaaay down: only ~890 lines versus my SA3100HD's ~1290 lines and ~1335 lines with a DCT6208 via a 2nd cable firm (HDNet test patterns). -- John

[Jim Boden]

John Mason:

The 8000HD here has a softer HD picture than a 3250HD. I replaced it with the 8300HD, which is sharper. The software is also more up-to-date, so that may be part of the reason. AFAIK, the 8000HD uses an ATI chipset, but the 8300HD seems to be using something different. I could be wrong on this, however.

[gblunt99]

Jim Boden:
I have the SA8000 thru Rogers here in Toronto and I really enjoy the convenience and the Hi-def. I'd been thinking of buying it as opposed to renting, but now I'm thinking of renting the 8300. I'm wondering what are your thoughts on buying vs. renting just now. I'm worried Pio or someone will come out with some amazing hd pvr that'll blow SA out of the water.

[John Mason]

Originally posted by Jim Boden
The 8000HD here has a softer HD picture than a 3250HD. I replaced it with the 8300HD, which is sharper. The software is also more up-to-date, so that may be part of the reason. AFAIK, the 8000HD uses an ATI chipset, but the 8300HD seems to be using something different. I could be wrong on this, however.
Thanks, Jim. We'd been waiting for 8000HDs and some 'missing' HD channels here for nearly a year. Now it looks like my cable company wants us to wait some more for a converter that works, charging full-HD rates but providing only near-720p fidelity. Perhaps 8300HD availability elsewhere is the reason there seems to be little mention of 8000HD image softness. -- John

[Jim Boden]

gblunt99:

FWIW, I bought the 8300HD, but rented the 8000HD. For me, it was a good decision, because I like the 8300’s superior PQ and the fact that it has SD active all the time. The 8000HD didn’t activate SD out without using PIP or Copy to VCR. Both of those were totally ridiculous to me. I want an always active SD output because I have a Faroudja NRS scalar, which improves the SD PQ significantly.

[John Mason]

Hope some folks with access to both 8000HDs and 8300HDs, plus HDNet's Tuesday 8am Eastern test patterns via cable, make some resolution-wedge comparisons. I measured a disappointing 890 lines (full Hd picture width) from my Passport-system 8000HD, using this technique (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4648637#post4648637). -- John

[Jim Boden]

John Mason:

Sorry man, but this is a Toronto thread. We don't get HD-Net in Canada.

I don't know of a comparable test pattern station here, although it would be interesting if there were.

[gblunt99]

Jim Boden,
Thanks for the info. I don't watch much SD, but whenever I do with the 8000 it certainly looks crappy. Well maybe I'll try out the 8300 and buy it before I pay them too much rent.
Does the 8300 still have the audio drop-outs one gets after the screen goes to white or black (as it does on my two favorite shows, Sopranos and Six Feet Under)?

[Jim Boden]

gblunt99:

I haven't noticed the audio drop out problem, but definitely had it with the 8000HD. I think it was fixed with a software update, but Rogers is way behind with SARA on the 8000HD. The software on the 8300HD is much more current, so this may account for it.

[gblunt99]

Jim Boden:
Got the 8300 yesterday. With the 3250, I was able to adjust the aspect ratio using my Pio Elite's remote. That wouldn't work with the 8000, and looke like it won't work with the 8300, either. It's a bummer, because the PIO's "Wide" image really minimizes distortion. ROgers told me re the 8000 that it's not possible because it sends along exactly what's broadcast and the only way to adjust aspect is to use their remote which makes things ugly IMHO. Any suggestions re setup that might get around this? (Tried pass-through but the picture came out all scrunched).

[Jim Boden]

gblunt99:

I don’t understand the answer Rogers gave you. It sounds like you’re letting the 8300 up convert 480i to 1080i, which is its default mode. If so, you’ll never be able to get your Pio to use its zoom modes because it’s locked into 1080i.

First, make sure you have set up the 8300 so it passes whatever you want to your Pio. For mine, I have selected 1080i and 480i normal screen. This enables me to set the box to output either 1080i or 480i. You have to control its output by going into a menu called picture settings, or something similar. These procedures are in the 8300’s documentation.

I select either 1080i or 480i, depending on whether I’m watching HD or SD. I find 480i for SD has a better PQ than watching it up converted to 1080i. This allows your display to use its zoom modes.

This procedure is actually what I used with the 8000HD. With the 8300HD, which has an always active SD output, I use S-Video and pass it to my Faroudja NRS. The PQ blows away anything you get from the 8300 itself.:D

[Jim Boden]

gblunt99:

Here's a link to a great thread on the 8300HD. It has all kinds tricks and tips.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=471859

[gblunt99]

Jim Boden:

Thanks for the link; I'll check it out. I just got off the phone with Rogers, who suggest I use the setup wizard to 1080i only, which will result in exactly the scenario you describe. Previously I had 1080i, 720p, 480i and 480p selected, but it seemed to put everything through in 480i. So you're suggesting I select 480i and 1080i from their setup menu and then when I select my Pio's SD input it'll use the 480i? I'll give it a whirl. (Turns out my PIO remote will change the aspect ration in SD, but not in HD). I'll give it a shot and let you know what happens. Appreciate your help.

[Jim Boden]

gblunt99:

Yes, you understand it correctly. With pass through, it should be handled automatically. I haven’t used it yet so can’t say for certain.

For the non-pass through method on the 8000HD, it was necessary to go into a menu and tell the box to switch video modes. I don't know if there's a short cut key on the remote which will do it, like there is for zoom. Maybe that 8300 thread will have info about it.

[Jim Boden]

gblunt99:

You have a PM.

[gblunt99]

Jim Boden,
Set the 8300 to 1080i and 480i standard last night, and changed the Picture set up from Fixed to Pass-through. Seems to work fine. PQ is much better on SD now, even when I use the Pio's "Wide" view. Thanks so much for the suggestion. (Now why couldn't Rogers tell me that?)
Question: If one selects the above two modes, what happens to, say, broadcasts in 720p? Are they up-converted to 1020i? If so, what is the function of the up-convert options in the 8300's setup?

[Jim Boden]

gblunt99:

My experience with Rogers is just like any other company out there. Some of the people really know their stuff, but they are in the minority.

I haven't used pass through, up convert, etc. so don't know for sure what happens with 720p. Complete details of how all the modes work are in the 8300 thread I posted above.

[space2001]

hey Jim or anyone in toronto using rogers, if I can get a quick update, I still have teh 8000HD, and now it seems to turn off the sound at any point in time and I have to unplug it to get it working again,
I am thinking of trading it in for the 8300HD, what is active on it, does the recording work on it now,

thanks in advance
hoping the firewire 1 day will be active or upgrade to the multiroom feature would be great,

thanks

[Jim Boden]

space2001:

The 8300HD works just fine. IMO, it’s much better all round than the 8000HD.

AFAIK, firewire support is in the future, but I have no idea when. The multi-room option is a special model of the box called MDR or something similar. I don’t know if Rogers has them or not.

[Stoopid37]

I seem to be having trouble with my SA8300HD and I'm not sure if it is a signal issue, STB issue or TV issue. I am currently using the SA8300HD with HDMI to my JVC 52" HD-ILA, with optical to my receiver. I use my STB heavily often recording two shows and watching a third.

I've noticed a fair amount of what I would call macro blocking when watching programs. It is usually in a small area of the screen and lasts a split second. When I rewind and watch that scene over again the TV displays the same picture, so I suspect it wasn't the TV but the recording because it happens exactly the same at the same time and place in the recording. This leads me to believe the it has to do with what the SA8300HD is producing.

What I want to know is Rogers sending poor signal or is the SA8300HD having trouble 'keeping up' and I'm taxing the hard drive too hard and causing recording errors? Has anyone else noticed this issue?

[gblunt99]

Yes, I have the same issue with the 8300. Small strips or blocks of pixilation that last for a second or two. It was so bad that I took the machine back and they replaced it. Second one is much better, but we still get these glitches. I think it may be just on HD broadcasts. Seems to happen a lot on ER for example, but other shows too. I think it's definitely the recorder. Ask them if you can exchange it. Maybe if they get enough of these requests they'll fix it faster.

[Stoopid37]

So my theroy of over taxing the hard drive would make sense. If the problem only occurs during HD content, and that's all I watch, it fits. HD content requires more storage and hence more writes/reads to the drive. Especially if I'm watching and recording multiple programs.

So we all waited for the SA8300HD because the SA8000HD sucked, NOW WHAT?

[smoore]

Hopefullly, Jim Bowden will provide his input on this issue. I am using the 8300HD with Rogers in Toronto. As I understand it even live TV is being watched off of the hard drive. This suggests that it would be difficult to determine whether it is the box or the Rogers signal that is the source of the problem. I have very occasional problems with macro blocking with this box. Oftern it will occur on mutiple occasions on one show (7 or 8 times in an hour) but many shows are just fine. I am in a condo on a street which was completely upgraded by Rogers two years ago. I believe that we have a very good cable signal from Rogers. I should add that I had the 3250HD box for a couple of weeks and I had the same occasional problems with macro blocking on some HD programs when I had this box.

[Jim Boden]

Some of the other 8300 threads have discussed the pixelation problem, which seems to be fairly common. The consensus is it happens when hard drive usage is over 50%. I have noticed it when I have a lot of programs recorded. It seems to happen only with HD recordings but not when the drive usage is low.

[space2001]

Jim, I am in the procces of upgrading muy 8000hd to 8300hd, but the rogers people are telling me its going to cost 10 more a month, Why?
why would they charge more, for the same box with more stability, time to bring out the complaining shoes

[Jim Boden]

space2001:

I thought the rental was $24.95 a month for an HD PVR. How much are they going to charge for an 8300?

I bought mine, so I don't pay rent.

[space2001]

they sayed that they are going to charge me ten dollars more a month then I am paying now, which makes no sense, unless they are discounting my 8000HD for some reason with a package deal.

[smoore]

Space2001:

The HD box (non PVR such as the 3250HD) is $14.95 a month. The PVR boxes are $24.95 a month plus $1.99 PVR fee (which you pay even if you own the box). If you have been paying $14.95 a month for the 8000HD, the you must have some special deal or they have been undercharging you.