HD941 will be available in Sep

[newhd]

Below email from Samsung:

Dear customer
This unit will be available in September. There are no known issues with the DVDHD841.
Thank you

[Joe Murphy Jr]

>>>There are no known issues with the DVDHD841.<<< :confused:


Sounds like someone's in denial. :eek:

[jdmoser]

Why would we believe the first statement after hearing the second statement? :rolleyes:

[Paul Bigelow]

Apparently, *they* believe it! :)

[Brajesh]

Given how we've been let down by the HD931, then the HD841, I don't expect the HD941 to live up to our expectations either. Specs sound great, but we know how those turn out in practice. It seems Samsung can't make products w/o significant issues. After the HD931 & a couple of Samsung hi-def STBs I've had, I don't trust Samsung products much. I'm really hoping Panasonic comes through w/the S97 DVD player.

[Joe Murphy Jr]

>>>I don't expect the HD941 to live up to our expectations either.<<<

Speak for yourself! I have pretty low expectations for the HD941 and I expect Samsung to meet them. :D

[JBaumgart]

I cancelled my pending HD941 order from Amazon yesterday and will probably get a Denon 3910 instead. Reason is better compatability with my Denon receiver, specifically Denon Link and better bass management capability for DVD-A and SACD. More money, but in the end I think I will be happier.

[cvj]

Originally posted by Brajesh
Given how we've been let down by the HD931, then the HD841, I don't expect the HD941 to live up to our expectations either. Specs sound great, but we know how those turn out in practice. It seems Samsung can't make products w/o significant issues. After the HD931 & a couple of Samsung hi-def STBs I've had, I don't trust Samsung products much. I'm really hoping Panasonic comes through w/the S97 DVD player.

What are the issues with the HD931? (Is there a thread on the forum?

Thanks

[Brajesh]

If I recall correctly, it had an issue w/greenish tint via DVI. I could be wrong. Other issues reported by Secrets were:
- noise reduction error
- inability to pass below-black
- sluggish navigation
- white level a bit hot

But, the HD931 still outscored the 841 in the Secrets benchmark (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=all) by a wide margin.

[mn_hokie]

HTPC is available now :)

[Kpt_Krunch]

I say let's give them a chance. You guys could very well be right, but I will go ahead and get the player anyway, and evaluate it and (of course) post my findings here. I personally am looking forward to it, as I have read that the DACs are much better then other similarly priced universal players, and it has the new Faroujda chip.

[BillP]

The 931 scored the same as the Zenith that everyone raves about. I'm interested in SACD and am going to give the 941 a try.

[Woodsea]

I am not cancelling my order...and am expecting it by the 23rd of July.:p

[BillP]

Originally posted by Woodsea
I am not cancelling my order...and am expecting it by the 23rd of July.:p

My preorder at Amazon also states 7/23, but I don't believe it. My bet is they just didn't change the date on the web site and we won't see one until Sept.

[DHT]

For anyone interested, Neil from TV Authority posted in the powerbuy thread yesterday that he will be giving an AVS special price on the hd941 and it should be going into the AVS section of their website on Monday (19th). He also said mid August or thereabouts for the availability.

[[ECGN] Tommy Boy]

for what it is worth, a Samsung rep here in Canada told me that they will not even be bringing in the 941 at all and won't be releasing the 841 until August because there were "problems with it in the US".

[Rob Tomlin]

Does anyone know if the 941 will properly scale 4:3 material for DVI output?

I know that the 931 doesn't.

This is a deal breaker for me if it won't properly scale 4:3 material.

[BillP]

The 841 does, so the 941 should as well.

[Rob Tomlin]

I didn't know the 841 scaled 4:3 material.

Great news Bill, thanks!

[BillP]

The 931 scaled it too, but stretched it to fill the screen. I read there is an option to defeat the forced stretching with the 841.

[BajaFishin]

Below email from Samsung:

Dear customer
This unit will be available in September. There are no known issues with the DVDHD841.
Thank you



>>>There are no known issues with the DVDHD841.<<< :confused:

Sounds like someone's in denial. :eek:



Why would we believe the first statement after hearing the second statement? :rolleyes:


Well, I think what they mean by "There are no known issues with the DVDHD841" is : There is no know mechanical issues with DVDHD841.

[mn_hokie]

I was considering one of these units, but decided to go with the Zenith 318.

[Paul Bigelow]

Hopefully this player will have picture adjustment controls (brightness at the very least).

[Jeff Lemke]

Get rid of the edge enhancment from the 931 as well.

Jeff

[Rob Tomlin]

Can someone give a summary of the differences between this unit and the 841?

Thanks!

[v120]

Just ordered mine through TV AUTHORITY power buy Neil says maybe mid august.Ordered it through the HLP power buy link great price to boot v120.

[OKAYDAVE]

Originally posted by v120
Just ordered mine through TV AUTHORITY power buy Neil says maybe mid august.Ordered it through the HLP power buy link great price to boot v120.

I also ordered mine through TVA. Should we start a 941 PB thread?

[Woodsea]

Just received this-
Thank you for writing to us at Amazon.com.

I apologize for any misunderstanding about the delivery estimate for
your order. "Samsung DVD-HD941 HDTV-Compatible Upconverter DVD
Player with DCDi Technology" has not yet shipped because it has not
yet been released. As listed on our site, it is currently scheduled
to be released in September 30, 2004.

As soon as the item has been released, we'll be able to ship it to
you. As per our standard policy, we do not charge you for items
until they enter the shipping process, so you will not be charged
for this item until it is available and we have shipped it to you.

Thanks for shopping at Amazon.com.

Please let us know if this e-mail resolved your question:

If yes, click here:
http://www.amazon.com/resolved-yes?comm_id=yfae10982
If not, click here:
http://www.amazon.com/resolved-no?comm_id=yfae10982

Please note: this e-mail was sent from an address that cannot accept
incoming e-mail. Please use the appropriate link above if you need
to contact us again about this matter.


Best regards,

Robert Rowland
Amazon.com Customer Service

OK, I am cancelling. OK guys under $150 right now, what is the best all around universal player. I am in need of a quick fix. Wasted 2 months listening thru a 10yr old multidisc JVC and DVD's thru my modded X-box.
Help please...
Thanks:(

[Kal Rubinson]

Originally posted by Rob Tomlin
Can someone give a summary of the differences between this unit and the 841?

Thanks!

According to the press release, the 941 adds Faroudja DCDi, HDMI output, black level adjustment, increased resolution settings and discrete IR codes.

Kal

[GreggPenn]

I considered cancelling my AMAZON.com pre-order for the HD941. The AVS section of TVAUTHORITY'S website currently lists the 941 less than Amazon did when I placed my order. Additionally, Amazon charges TAX to my state (Kansas).

Immediately, I considered changing. But, I checked on TVAUTHORITY's return policy. They charge 12% re-stocking for opened items. That puts the final price higher -- if I opt to return the item within their 30-day window.

With the potential for black crush, potential buyers should consider a return and the 12% fee as a real possibility. If it weren't for the black crush issue, I would have switched in a heart-beat!

gp

[DHT]

Just pre ordered the hd941 from TVA also. Maybe it'll get here about the same time as my hlp6163.:p

[coati858]

Originally posted by Kal Rubinson
According to the press release, the 941 adds Faroudja DCDi, HDMI output, black level adjustment, increased resolution settings and discrete IR codes.

Kal


Does this feature give us any hope that DVI black levels will be improved over the 841, or does it mean something else?

[smitchell24]

Anyone know from past experience with other items, if TVA or Amazon or J & R is the fastest in terms of ordering something (the 941) & getting it delivered to ones home?

At this rate, the Sony HDMI DVD player may be available before the 941. Anyone waiting til they are both out & reviewed, before taking the plunge? Pros & Cons??

[Terry.P]

I wouldn't hold my breath but the TVA site states that the 941 will be available Aug/2004.

[GreggPenn]

Originally posted by coati858
Does this feature give us any hope that DVI black levels will be improved over the 841, or does it mean something else?

This question was asked in another recent 941 thread. But it would be interesting to read more discussion on this issue.

The answer I remember is that -- by itself -- the addition of controls don't mean there won't be an issue. The extra controls only guarantee that you can adjust the level of black after the bits are properly (or improperly) decoded.

Black crush is a phenomenon where some of the various digital levels of black (dark gray) are "crushed" into fewer values. Hence, fewer levels of black may exist in the final signal. For example, lets say the 3 darkest levels of black end up crushed into one black level. The control on the output guarantees that you can make that final value lighter or darker. It won't get the levels of contrast back -- if they are already lost.

However, I'm not clear about what (digital) process causes this loss. Especially since a digital (DVI/HDMI) signal is supposed to go straight from the DVD to your digital output if scaling and conversion-to-analog processes are eliminated!

gp

[smitchell24]

Just spoke with TVA (online chat) & was advised they will have the 941 in stock in 3-4 weeks. Asked if I added 1 week for shipping, if I could expect it in 30 days & was advised by "Tico", that the answer was "Yes"! (Don't think I could get one faster anywhere else, even if I was willing to pay more!)

[BillP]

Originally posted by GreggPenn
I considered cancelling my AMAZON.com pre-order for the HD941. The AVS section of TVAUTHORITY'S website currently lists the 941 less than Amazon did when I placed my order. Additionally, Amazon charges TAX to my state (Kansas).

Immediately, I considered changing. But, I checked on TVAUTHORITY's return policy. They charge 12% re-stocking for opened items. That puts the final price higher -- if I opt to return the item within their 30-day window.

gp

Actually, since TVA charges shipping and Amazon gave free shipping, it was a few $ less at Amazon (and I don't pay tax in PA). Does anyone have experience buying through TVA?

[Foxbat121]

Originally posted by coati858
Does this feature give us any hope that DVI black levels will be improved over the 841, or does it mean something else?

841 also has black level adjustment. It's just been disabled on DVI. 941 probably will be the same.

[BillP]

Since the Samsung press release claimed that black level adjustment was a difference between the 841 and 941, it may not be disabled in the 941.

[jazzcat]

Just cancelled my Amazon order and ordered through TVS. I bought my Sammy DLP through them and they are great to deal with. It cost me about $2 more. I don't want to wait till September 30.

[66gtk]

will the 941 do upconversion (720P, 1080i) through component outputs or only DVI???

[salrmrcrey]

i believe it's only through the DVI input

[ricksm3]

Originally posted by jazzcat
Just cancelled my Amazon order and ordered through TVS. I bought my Sammy DLP through them and they are great to deal with. It cost me about $2 more. I don't want to wait till September 30.

Is Amazon less likely to receive the product when it is actually released? It appears to me nobody is ever correct on release dates. Assuming TVA is correct and it is released in mid-August, wouldn't Amazon also receive and ship it then.:confused:

[jazzcat]

Originally posted by ricksm3
Is Amazon less likely to receive the product when it is actually released? It appears to me nobody is ever correct on release dates. Assuming TVA is correct and it is released in mid-August, wouldn't Amazon also receive and ship it then.:confused:

No telling; it's a crap shoot. Amazon said September 30. TVA said August. I went with them based on that.

I ordered a ICBM Outlaw Bass Management unit that should be here this week. So when the 941 gets here I will be good to go.

[QuentinH]

Originally posted by salrmrcrey
i believe it's only through the DVI input

Really? That doesn't make a lot of sense. And, it would be a downgrade from the 841 and 931.

Can anyone confirm this?

[blipszyc]

Originally posted by QuentinH
Really? That doesn't make a lot of sense. And, it would be a downgrade from the 841 and 931.

Can anyone confirm this?
I don't know what you've been seeing, but none of the Sammy players ever outputted 720 or 1080 through component. The only players I know of that do such a thing are the Zenith, Momitsu, Lite-on and Bravo units. There may be a couple other smaller brands, but none of the other big boys are playing in that space.

Also, the 941 will only upconvert over HDMI. There will be no DVI port on the 941.

[Rob Tomlin]

And Bravo units generally do NOT output 720 or 1080 via component either, despite a lot of misinformation regarding that issue.

If the DVD is not copyprotected, the Bravo will upconvert via component. How many DVD's are not copy protected?

[QuentinH]

Gotcha...ok...misinformation runs rampant! :)

I guess everone must pray that black crush won't be a problem then...

[Rob Tomlin]

I will join you in that prayer Quentin!

:)

[msulinski]

Also, the 941 will only upconvert over HDMI. There will be no DVI port on the 941.

What? Is this for real? That is a big downgrade from previous models. I don't see the point of releasing a DVD player that 5% of CRT TVs can actually take advantage of.

Edit: Oops, looks like it comes with an HDMI to DVI converter.

[mike.cf]

Word is they provide a HDMI to DVI converter.

[DHT]

I actually need a regular HDMI cable (HDMI to HDMI) because I plan on connecting straight to my dlp's HDMI connection. I'm not sure if this cable is included or not. I know I've seen the adapter cable listed as included but not sure about the regular cable.

[Rijax]

It is my understanding that it comes with an HDMI to HDMI cable, and an HDMI/DVI adapter. From the Amazon site:

"HDMI digital-video output, including an HDMI interconnect and an HDMI-to-DVI converter"

[Raven_King]

Well,

I just took the plunge on the TVA Powerbuy... I bought the Samsung HLP 5063 from them back in mid June.. They are a GREAT company to work with.. Superior customer service ect.

I had/have the 841 but my first 841 died of the "Load" issue. I swapped out for another unit at BB but I gotta tell you, I feel like I'm living on borrowed time.. Everytime I put a disc in the unit, I feel like this is going to be the time that the damn unit dies on me.. I don't need the hassle.. I'm praying that Samsung figured out whatever the heck was going on with the 841 and fixed it in the 941.

The Sammy HLP 5063 has all the Fadj. chips, etc that the 941 has so I may be paying twice for the same thing but. If the signal (DVI) is getting screwed at the DVD level, the Fadj. in the 5063 doesn't really have anything to work with. Also, this mumbo jumbo about black/white crush and blacker than black and whiter than white.. Ahh, it sounds like mumbo jumbo to me.. I did notice that its a little hard to distinguish dark color (blacks, dark greens, dark scenes, etc).. Everything fades into each other and it looks like a big black palette.. Could that be what the mumbo jumbo is all about ?

[BillP]

Raven_King,
The Faroudja chip in the DLP is not used when you send a 720p signal from the DVD player to the TV over DVI or HDMI, so you are not paying twice for the same thing. The DVD's chip deinterlaces and upscales; the TV's chip cannot deinterlace an already deinterlaced signal.

[Andre Smith]

So, does anyone have an idea on how I can get the DVI input on my Sanyo PLV-70 projector to accept the HD941 HDMI output? The Sanyo isn't HDCP compliant.

Andre'

[Chris Loker]

Can't do it - you'd have to to get a DVD player that did not use HDCP on the DVI out such as the Mommitsu.

[Raven_King]

Originally posted by Andre Smith
So, does anyone have an idea on how I can get the DVI input on my Sanyo PLV-70 projector to accept the HD941 HDMI output? The Sanyo isn't HDCP compliant.

Andre'

Cool,

Thanks I didn't realize...

[Raven_King]

Originally posted by BillP
Raven_King,
The Faroudja chip in the DLP is not used when you send a 720p signal from the DVD player to the TV over DVI or HDMI, so you are not paying twice for the same thing. The DVD's chip deinterlaces and upscales; the TV's chip cannot deinterlace an already deinterlaced signal.


Cool,

Thanks, I didn't realize.

[120inna55]

Originally posted by mike.cf
Word is they provide a HDMI to DVI converter.

Does this conversion result in any loss if say going to DVI input on an HLN TV?

[Chris Loker]

The HDMI to DVI converter just rearranges the pin configuration. HDMI is really DVI with Audio channel connectors as well.

[Rob Tomlin]

Yeah, what Chris said.

And it's digital, so there shouldn't be any loss of data.

[mallu2u]

hopefully this player shall not be delayed like all others...

[Toastermax]

Is there a way to make the dvd player only output picture to the tv?? i want the sound going to my receiver.

[Rijax]

Of course. A DVD player has (usually) both analog and digital audio outputs. Connect one end of the proper interconnects to those, and plug the other ends wherever you choose; TV or Receiver.

the HMDI output from this particular player carries both audio and video, so if your TV has an HDMI input, both will be sent to the TV. But the analog and digital audio outputs on the player will still be able to send the audio to your receiver.

[BillP]

Note that SACD (and I believe DVD-A as well) will only output from this player via analog connections (as is the case for most SACD players due to copyright issues).

[jwv651]

I ordered a hd-941 from TVA on the day of the PB announcement and the email states est shipping Aug 2 do you think this is possible? I might get the hd-941 before the HLP6163, I was hoping to get the TV first. Whatever!

Joe V.

[BillP]

Nobody can tell you the actual shipment date for the player. All stores are just going by estimates from Samsung. Samsung apparently told someone on the forum that it will not be available until Sept, but who knows how reliable that is.

[mallu2u]

Originally posted by Rijax
Of course. A DVD player has (usually) both analog and digital audio outputs. Connect one end of the proper interconnects to those, and plug the other ends wherever you choose; TV or Receiver.

the HMDI output from this particular player carries both audio and video, so if your TV has an HDMI input, both will be sent to the TV. But the analog and digital audio outputs on the player will still be able to send the audio to your receiver.

In addition, even if you are using HDMI that sends audio to the TV, you can always turn off the TV audio and let only your receiver handle it by sending audio digital via optical or coax cables from ur DVD player.

[mallu2u]

Originally posted by jwv651
I ordered a hd-941 from TVA on the day of the PB announcement and the email states est shipping Aug 2 do you think this is possible? I might get the hd-941 before the HLP6163, I was hoping to get the TV first. Whatever!

Joe V.

Do let us know if they ship out by August 2nd. So far no one else mentioned that as their ship date.

[jhill]

Originally posted by mallu2u
Do let us know if u get it by August 2nd. So far no one else mentioned that as their delivery date.

Well, he wouldn't have it by August 2nd since that's the ship date and all. Mine says August 4th. I'm thinking for some reason it'll be more like the 15th, but I wouldn't mind being proved wrong.

Also, what the heck is the deal with their shipping prices? The thing could weigh at most like 10 pounds all packed up, probably less than that.

[OKAYDAVE]

Originally posted by mallu2u
Do let us know if u get it by August 2nd. So far no one else mentioned that as their delivery date.

I ALSO HAVE A SHIP DATE OF 8-2....I think I was the first to order from TVA.

[DHT]

I pre-ordered the 941 on the first day also. Ship date est. August 2nd. Don't know how big the first batch will be.

[BillP]

I still bet you won't get anything until Sept, but I hope I'm wrong.

[DHT]

If I could at least get my 61HLP before Sept. I would consider that a great victory and not mind as much If I don't get the 941 til Sept. It could happen....really it could. Maybe.:p

[f16falcon]

Originally posted by BillP
Note that SACD (and I believe DVD-A as well) will only output from this player via analog connections (as is the case for most SACD players due to copyright issues).

Probably a dumb question as I am new to SACD and DVD-A, but how many analog outputs will there be for SACD/DVD-A? I want to buy cables and am not sure what the rear panel setup is on the 941. Anyone have a link to a picture of the rear panel? I know there will be at least 6 RCA analog connections for the SACD/DVD-A but my Yamaha HTR-5790 receiver will actually take 8 analog connections (adding the rear surrounds to the normal 5.1). I see that the 841 has 6 analog outputs so I assume that it is the same for the 941 but want to make sure before I buy the cables.

[BillP]

It probably has the same outputs as the 841. You may want to wait to see what cables come in the box.

[Kal Rubinson]

I am pretty sure there will be only 6 outputs as that is standard for SACD and DVD-A.

Kal

[jwv651]

Originally posted by DHT
If I could at least get my 61HLP before Sept. I would consider that a great victory and not mind as much If I don't get the 941 til Sept. It could happen....really it could. Maybe.:p

Wouldn't it be sweet to get the HLP6163 and the HD-941 on the same day...It would be like Christmas in August...Good Luck!

Joe V.

[DHT]

jwv651,
Thanks. Good luck to you too! Of course with all this spare time and continuing to read the different threads I am now convinced I should get a UPS for my system also. Every time I promise my wife that this is the last component I need for the HT setup something else just screams to be added.:D

[jhill]

I just happened to speak to I think Robin at TVA and she said the 941 was coming to them second week of August, and they seem to have a good relationship with Samsung.

[daumier]

Preordered the 941 yesterday - but I have not received anything on est. ship date from them.

TVA is a good company - check out the popular PB thread for the Sammy DLPs in the RPTV section. I pre-ordered the DLP but changed my mind after I saw one in a store and found out that I am sensitive to the rainbow effect. However, from what I can gather, people are very happy with their service.

They also have the D-ILAs as part of their power buy now, if anyone is interested. I am having somewhat buyers remorse on my XBR960 now and wished I waited for the D-ILAs -- but oh well, perhaps next year. :D

[jbarbbcuny]

Originally posted by daumier
Preordered the 941 yesterday - but I have not received anything on est. ship date from them.



Same here. But found it on their website when I looked up my order there.

[hobbs47]

i would bet it is coming real soon,BB just dropped the price of the 841 to $149.westminster,CA BB.

[robertc88]

Thanks for that tip. I paid $199.00. Back it goes to get the cheaper price!! Wonder though if that perhaps is more so due to the fact it may not be selling in anticipation of the 941 so folks are not biting on the 841. That player isn't moving at my local Best Buy.

[robertc88]

Well perhaps at that Best Buy for $149 on the HD841 as it is not showing that price on their website nor at my local Best Buy in NJ when I checked this morning. Not sure how that Best Buy could offer it for that price and it is not across the board.

[Foxbat121]

Maybe it's open box? I just got mine this week from CC for $179? If this $149 is true, I can ask CC to make a PM. Anybody else found this price at their local BB?

[hobbs47]

Originally posted by robertc88
Well perhaps at that Best Buy for $149 on the HD841 as it is not showing that price on their website nor at my local Best Buy in NJ when I checked this morning. Not sure how that Best Buy could offer it for that price and it is not across the board.

don't know why it would only be that BB either,but i definitely saw it.
i had to do a double take cause i paid $200 for mine when it first came out(month and a half-2 months ago).this was for new units,not open box.

[robertc88]

Well I paid $199 and only have two days left before the 30 day return policy is up. I don't feel I want to keep this for $199 if a $149 price is right around the corner so I don't know I have any choice but to return it and wait.

I don't believe I can get the better price once it goes past the 30 day period. Thanks for the double take, hobbs! :)

[daumier]

Originally posted by jbarbbcuny
Same here. But found it on their website when I looked up my order there.

Thx for the tip. I checked on the site and found that mine supposed to ship on 08/05 :D

[GreggPenn]

I may be on to something here. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4102891#post4102891) I'm linking to a post which might explain the delay.

[oskeewowwow]

Anyone know if the 941 will have JPEG viewing capabilities???

[Foxbat121]

HD841 already can view JPEGs.

[cybertec]

Just got mine yesterday, the 841, and it is going back today for a full refund, I keep getting freezups every couple of minutes, in all modes, it plays smooth and then the picture just freezes for a split sec, then back to normal, sometimes it freezes for 2-3 sec and back to normal, it acts as if it is very sick, how can they release a products like this, don't they know that it will cost them in the long run by returns and disatisfied customers, I have a Samy HDTV LCD and love it, but this HD-DVD player is an abomination.

[daumier]

Does anyone know whether the 941 will have new components that make up the physical mechanism of the player, e.g. the laser pickup, tray, etc. or whether they're going to reuse the components from the 841? I'm particularly interested in the layer change timing. . .

[DrJRapp]

My HD 841 had some minor glitches and layer change hang ups for about 2 days, then everything just smoothed out. Perhaps the loader just needs some break in time. Have some patience.

[dsm363]

Placed my preorder from Amazon.com. I was thinking about the new Sony one coming out though. Anyone know how it compares to the 941? Was also thinking about the Denon 3910 but the Samsung at $300 seems to get me most of the features (SACD, HDMI and upscaling) and a much cheaper price. It should hold me over another year or two until HD-DVD comes out (whichever version wins).

[BillP]

The Sony will also be about $300. The main differences are no DVD-A, and no Faroudja.

[Stereodude]

What is the part number of the new Sony DVD player? I haven't seen any mention of it anywhere.

Edit: Found it... DVP-NS975V

[mallu2u]

but again, no exact date when the Sony Players shall be released.

[zoro]

So no ONE GOT THEIR PRE ORDERS FROM AMAZON, I guess?? but shipping date persists!

[jazzcat]

Anyone talk to TVA recently to see if they have any new info on arrival date?

[Scott-C]

My video source would have DVI and not HDMI, so I know I would need to use the HDMI-to-DVI converter cable that comes with the 941. My questions are as follows:

1. Will the HDMI-to-DVI connector introduce any kind of signal loss / loss of picture quality?

2. I would need a DVI cable that is pretty long (probably about 30'). Would I have to attach a DVI coupler to the end of the HDMI-to-DVI cable, and then attach a long DVI cable to reach my gear? Will this introduce any loss of signal quality? Is there a better way to make the connection I need to make?

[JohnDW]

I need a reality check - I think I understand that
HDMI is DVi-D with a few more pins for audio, and can get converters to accomodate a display with DVi-D to a HDMI DVD player-
what is HDCP ? I see that mentioned alongside DVi-d - arev there different types of DVi-D ?

[Rob Tomlin]

HDCP = High Definition Copy Protection.

[Foxbat121]

HDCP is an encryption protocol that encrypts data sent over DVI-D link. If a TV is HDCP capable, it means the TV can decode the encrypted video data sent by your DVD player.

[BillP]

Originally posted by Scott-C
My video source would have DVI and not HDMI, so I know I would need to use the HDMI-to-DVI converter cable that comes with the 941. My questions are as follows:

1. Will the HDMI-to-DVI connector introduce any kind of signal loss / loss of picture quality?

2. I would need a DVI cable that is pretty long (probably about 30'). Would I have to attach a DVI coupler to the end of the HDMI-to-DVI cable, and then attach a long DVI cable to reach my gear? Will this introduce any loss of signal quality? Is there a better way to make the connection I need to make?

The HDMI to DVI is not a conversion (the digital signal just passes through the supplied adapter) and will not introduce any loss of signal/PQ. The long cable run could be a problem, so you should probably go with a higher quality cable for such a long run.

[GreggPenn]

Originally posted by BillP
The HDMI to DVI is not a conversion (the digital signal just passes through the supplied adapter) and will not introduce any loss of signal/PQ. The long cable run could be a problem, so you should probably go with a higher quality cable for such a long run.

I agree with Bill. And, as an additional point of reference...

PACIFICCABLE.com has a link on their site regarding long DVI cable runs. And, they indicate that they make longer (than 5 meter) DVI cables. I also seem to remember a specialty cable (it think it was fiber-optic) for extremely long runs -- but it is the most expensive solution.

They have technical help (email/phone). It seems like they would be a great resource for getting your question(s) answered.

gp

[gbritting]

Latest update (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4126824#post4126824) from Neil at TVA on shipping status over on the "Official Samsung HLP Power Buy Details" thread:

"DVD-HD941's still looking like 2nd week of August"

[jazzcat]

You may want to check out this company's cables. Up to 50 feet.

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/dvi/index.htm

I have purchased all my cables from them and have been very satisfied with the quality.

[ckarabian]

I recommend www.ramelectronics.net for long runs also ... Have their 25 foot DVI-D for HTPC to projector and works like a charm. (also have their component and that is excellent too.

[Scott-C]

Thanks for all the info guys - I'll start checking out some of these cable places tomorrow. I do have concerns about possible picture quality degradation using a 25' to 30' DVI cable and will have to think about that one. I noticed some specs on how resolution decreases as the DVI cable length increases, and that made me nervous. One site (can't recall where I found it) claims resolution drops from 1600 x 1200 to 1024 x 768 when you go beyond 5 meters. Scary!

On another note, just thought I'd mention that I just pre-ordered the Sammy 941 from Amazon.com. I figured I can always cancel the order if I change my mind, but I ordered because through August 1, Amazon is offering a $50 promotional certificate for electronics purchases over $250. I wanted to get in on that action...

Interestingly, when I placed my order I was informed my 941 will ship approximately October 6 - 8. Just thought I'd put that info out here.

[santellavision]

Originally posted by BillP
The HDMI to DVI is not a conversion (the digital signal just passes through the supplied adapter) and will not introduce any loss of signal/PQ.Bill,
There is a serious bug in some equipment (Pioneer 59i) when you use an HDMI-to-DVI adaptor. Nobody's sure yet if the 941 has this problem. Here's more in this thread...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3599469#post3599469

[Joe Murphy Jr]

The Pioneer DV-59AVi does not have the bug. The conversion to RGB is done before the HDMI transmitter. The is applicable when using Normal mode: the Enhanced mode clips the extremes and should not be used.

[Martin Butler]

I was at a private Samsung event in NYC about 10 days ago and the word was the 941 will be available in Sept. They are aware of some problems with the 841 and are hopefully addressing them in the 941.

[GreggPenn]

Another (earlier) post stated that Samsung did not recognize any "issues" with the 841.

Did Samsung acknowledge what the issues they feel are present and state a specific intent to rectify any of them? (The way your post is worded, I have to assume they didn't acknowledge specifics nor make any promises).

gp

[DooDoo]

Could someone please explain the degradation of a digital signal over a DVI cable? If its only transmitting 1s and 0s how can the signal degrade? I thought that with digital, its either there or its not?

[Martin Butler]

Gregg:" The way your post is worded, I have to assume they didn't acknowledge specifics nor make any promises)."
_________________________________________________________

Exactly, he wasn't speaking in an "official" capacity, so I don't know about any kind of fixes.

[txgriz]

Originally posted by DooDoo
Could someone please explain the degradation of a digital signal over a DVI cable? If its only transmitting 1s and 0s how can the signal degrade? I thought that with digital, its either there or its not?

DooDoo,

Even though the signal is being transmitted digitally, it still has an analog representation in voltage on the cable. The DVI data stream transmits a source clock and red, blue, and green differentially on the cable. At the receiving end, an analog circuit called a phase locked loop recoveres his clock and locally creates a synchonous clock which it uses to clock in the data for each color. As the signal bits travel down longer runs of cable, the voltage levels reduce. The signal can also couple in noise if the cable is not properly shielded. Finally, if the impedance of the cable does not match exactly the impedance of the source and destination, signal reflections will result These reflections cause one bit of data to smear into the next.

At some point a one becomes a zero and vice-a-versa. Serial data streams do not break down all at once, so a marginal cable may still reproduce the image but it will have visible artifacts randomly placed thorughout.

txgriz.

BTW, I have a 10m DVI cable to a BenQ8700 pj and my Radeon 9800 Pro has no problem driving this error free. I got the cable from Lindy

[txgriz]

Originally posted by BillP
The HDMI to DVI is not a conversion (the digital signal just passes through the supplied adapter) and will not introduce any loss of signal/PQ. The long cable run could be a problem, so you should probably go with a higher quality cable for such a long run.

Not that it is necessarily a problem for any given connector, but simply "passing" through a connector can introduce signal reflections and increase inter-symbol interference (ISI) that could be enough to introduce errors in a marginally clean setup.

This means that a cable adaptor may work fine for a 5m run of DVI with an HDMI connector adaptor but not work for a 10m run. This is some conjecture on my part however and the better the connection are inside the adaptor to the long cable, the less likely it will be a problem.

txgriz

[OKAYDAVE]

The 941 has hit the samsung web site. Hopefully they will be shipping soon!

[Paul Bigelow]

No HD941 user manual on the Samsung site as of *this* posting.

[zoro]

I spoke with ecost, they claim shipping in one week!! I hope amazon does that too!!
I dont like ecost return policy!

[TroySD]

According to my BB manager...I could get one in from the warehouse (they just don't have them in the stores yet). Said he believed there were 12 in stock last time he checked. (Sam 941)

[mallu2u]

Seems that we might get some early impressions of this player soon...

[zoro]

i expect amazon orders should be shipping soon, my pre order still tells me July 22nd!

[smitchell24]

Well, I just received a VM from J & R this evening indicating they will now NOT be receiving the 941 til November, & this after speaking with them over the past 2 months & receiving indications they would have it the 2nd week in August, basically, now! Not sure what the sudden delay is all about!

[zoro]

I dont think it seems reliable!! i feel it will be out as claimed originally!

[TroySD]

I will check again tomorrow with BB here and have them actually confirm with me that they infact DO have them in stock at their warehouse.

Ok...question for all.

I currently have an older (2 yrs) DVD player that is NON-progressive. I just got a Samsung 5085 (brand new model 50" DLP) and when I play DVD's on it...the resolution is not that great. (I am hooked up via S-video as well)

Now forgive my stupidity...is Progressive Scan THAT much better then regular? And am I right to assume the HD941 (hooked up with DVI) would be a HUGE difference in picture quality over my old DVD player (with S-video hookup)?

I simply have never owned a decent/newer TV before this...my last was a 31" JVC (CRT) that was 13+ years old.

[ender21]

Originally posted by TroySD
IOk...question for all.

I currently have an older (2 yrs) DVD player that is NON-progressive. I just got a Samsung 5085 (brand new model 50" DLP) and when I play DVD's on it...the resolution is not that great. (I am hooked up via S-video as well)

Now forgive my stupidity...is Progressive Scan THAT much better then regular? And am I right to assume the HD941 (hooked up with DVI) would be a HUGE difference in picture quality over my old DVD player (with S-video hookup)?

I simply have never owned a decent/newer TV before this...my last was a 31" JVC (CRT) that was 13+ years old.

What kind of DVD player is it? Make/model? Does it have component out? Your Samsung DLP has a Faroudja deinterlacer in it, so having a progressive scan DVD player isn't a necessity at all, provided it at least has 480i through component output. You'd simply connect it to one of your Samsung's component ins and you'll have much better progressive scan images than many DVD players are capable of.

However, for most digital sets, an HDMI or DVI DVD player provides an appreciable difference over component video, and will have a *huge* difference over S-Video.

Rick

P.S. If you're interested in having your Samsung ISF Calibrated, please drop me a line! ;)

[mnilan]

TroySD:
We don't know yet about the Samsung 941 (you may be the first! :D). The concern is with black and white crush due to implementing a DVI/HDMI connection based on computing standards rather than A/V standards.

ender21 is correct that an upscaling DVD player through a DVI or HDMI connection is a good thing to do BECAUSE it eliminates digital-to-analog and analog-to-digital conversions. This is good because those conversions are a major source of compromise to PQ. This is a good thing for ANY display but especially beneficial for digital displays like your DLP.

Go get that 941, see if you can detect any black and/or white crush and let us know. This could be the player we've been waiting for (even if it is silver :D).

[TroySD]

Originally posted by ender21
What kind of DVD player is it? Make/model? Does it have component out? Your Samsung DLP has a Faroudja deinterlacer in it, so having a progressive scan DVD player isn't a necessity at all, provided it at least has 480i through component output. You'd simply connect it to one of your Samsung's component ins and you'll have much better progressive scan images than many DVD players are capable of.

However, for most digital sets, an HDMI or DVI DVD player provides an appreciable difference over component video, and will have a *huge* difference over S-Video.

Rick

P.S. If you're interested in having your Samsung ISF Calibrated, please drop me a line! ;)

It's a Sony (I'm at work and don't remember the model #...I am just now getting semi-serious about equipment and knowing exactly what I have). It does have component out...but currently I just have it hooked up by way of S-video to my 5+ year JVC receiver...then from my JVC via S-video to my Kirk. Also...these s-video cables are cheap ones too (one came with the DVD player and the other is of similar quality).


From what you have said it sounds like I really do need to not judge my picture quality until I get "at least" decent component cables.

I may just skip this and get the Samsung 941...with DVI connection.

I totally appreciate your help all!

ps. Ok...I'm an idiot, what is ISF calibration? Or stear me to a thread where I can learn what that is. Thanks!

[TroySD]

Originally posted by mnilan
TroySD:

Go get that 941, see if you can detect any black and/or white crush and let us know. This could be the player we've been waiting for (even if it is silver :D).

Black & White crush?

I'm so sorry for being such a damned newbie here...

[Foxbat121]

Originally posted by TroySD
Black & White crush?

I'm so sorry for being such a damned newbie here...

Just search for HD 931 or HD 841, two of the existing Samsung DVI DVD players. You will see a lot of post about black crush on these two. So far, Samsung has black crush on 2 out of 2 of its DVI players. Odds on HD941 to fix the problem isn't that good.

[Iceblade]

Short answer...

Black Crush - Inability of some DVD players to show discrete digital grey scale levels below 16, i.e. "below black" or "blacker than black"

White Crush - Inability of some DVD players to show discrete digital grey scale levels above 235, i.e. "above white" or "whiter than white".

NTSC, i.e. standard US analog broadcast TV standard allowed blacker than black and whiter than white signals to exist based on reference voltage levels. PC's do not in general allow this. Samsung chose to implement PC black levels as opposed to A/V NTSC level with their DVI players... thus they are unable to display blacker than black or whiter than white signals. Pickup "Video Essentials", "Avia Guide to Home Theater" or "Digital Video Essentials" on DVD for more explanations on blacker than black, etc...

Hope that helps,
Jeff.. patiently awaiting word on the 941 and it's ability to pass PLUGE (that's the test pattern that shows if a given DVD player/video display passed blacker than black")

[chris523]

Hmmm,

Quick question then. Is it possible for some DVD players to have black crush only on component out but not S-Video out?

I ask because I was using a sony DVD player (interlace mode & S-Video Out) to my old Sony CRT TV. When I used DVE Pluge pattern, I was able to see 3 black bars on each side of the screen.

Now I use the same DVD player (but with Progressive mode & Component out) to my HLP 6163. I only see 2 black bars on each side of the screen.

Is this reasonable? Could it be the DVD player or the DLP?

Maybe I'll have to connect it to the DLP just like I had it connected to the CRT - that is interlace mode & S Video to compare apples to apples?

Thanks,
-Chris

[Foxbat121]

Originally posted by Iceblade
Short answer...

Black Crush - Inability of some DVD players to show discrete digital grey scale levels below 16, i.e. "below black" or "blacker than black"

White Crush - Inability of some DVD players to show discrete digital grey scale levels above 235, i.e. "above white" or "whiter than white".


Actually, Samsung did more than that. It not only can not pass blacker than black and whiter than white. It also stretches the 16-235 range into 0-255. Most TVs are designed to show 16 as black and 235 as white from DVI. Because of these extra stretch of Samsung design, normal black levels slightly above 16 or normal white levels slightly below 235 will be clipped as well. The result is losing a lot of details on black scenes (and white).

[Iceblade]

Correct.. my understanding is that essentially 0-15 are equivalent to 16 and 236-255 are equivalent to 235 in the mis-mapping of the grey levels. Sorry if that wasn't clear in my post.

Regs,
Jeff

[TroySD]

Well guess what...the BB a/v manager said that it was removed from their database now and he doesn'e know why. (Sam 941). He thinks it probly got pushed back. (now how he thought their warehouse had 12 yesterday...I don't know).

Oh well...so much for this 'newbie' to be one of the 1st to test out the 941. (I wanted to help out) :(

hehe

Will keep you updated as I am going to bug this guy every couple of days now.

[QuentinH]

Soooo...are we looking at a November release? I would think Denon would get a BIG leg up on Samsung with the 1910 if that's the case.

[BillP]

But the 1910 is not a universal player like the Sammy. Since I want SACD, I will have to choose between a $300 Sammy and a $700 Denon.

[King of Pain]

I spoke to Robin at TVA yesterday. They still expect to be shipping the first batch of 941s next week. I also wish denon would have included SACD and DVDaudio in the 1910. It would have given the sammy a run for its money. I like the denon quality but it's hard to pass up the features of the sammy. Hopefullly Samsung will get it right this time.

[abrahavt]

Does anyone know what DACs are used in the Samsung 941 versus the Denon 2910 and 3910. Was curious about the audio performance of the 3 players.

[mnilan]

BillP & abrahavt:
I would recommend that you separate your DVD video player from your hi-res audio player simply because trying to address both in the same box is too much. Even Denon's $2k+ player doesn't do SACD without jitters (on their proprietary digital connection)... Bass management for hi-res is also touch and go with many of the so-called "universal" players. An Outlaw ICBM does a wonderful job with the bass management when you put it in between your hi-res DVD and your receiver. It doesn't do distance settings (i.e., address timing issues) but in small to medium sized rooms this is not catastrophic.

Since I have a DLP, I wanted a digital signal path for visuals which already have a digital signal path for audio, so a Bravo D1 works great. I have another DVD player (much less than Denon's 5900 :D) with the Outlaw ICBM (which you buy directly from them at about $250) for hi-res audio and CDs. This two-DVD player strategy allowed me to find a combination that works very well for my needs with good fidelity (video and audio) for under $1K.

Some day there might be a "universal" player out there that both correctly but that day isn't today... IMHO

Good luck with your solution.

[abrahavt]

Just wondering which DVD players have a really good audio section?

[Foxbat121]

HD841 had pretty good bass management on both DVD-Audio and SACD. It doesn't do distance setting though. I would expect 941 will be the same. It should offer decent sound quality if Samsung iron out all the quirks that plagued the HD841.

[PhilB]

Originally posted by mnilan
Even Denon's $2k+ player doesn't do SACD without jitters (on their proprietary digital connection)...

What do you mean by this statement? Do you mean that ther is jitter in the signal coming from the 5900, or do you mean that the 5900 somehow does a poor job with SACD?

-phil

[mnilan]

abrahavt:
Actually I think there are several although my search for a hi-res audio solution is now over a year old, so others should offer their findings for current models. If you adopt the two-DVD player scenario, you don't need DVI outputs or upscaling, etc. on the video side but note you must give up the digital connection for hi-res audio because of the proprietary nature of those links (e.g., Denon & Pioneer) and the high cost. The Samsung 941 with an Outlaw ICBM may very well be a good hi-res audio solution EVEN IF the HDMI connection crushes blacks and whites but we don't know yet, we haven't seen one yet. If the 941 still has the crush problem (which, as I understand it is the result of employing computing standards rather than A/V standards for the DVI - you'd think Samsung would have listened to us and changed this but...), then it still might be a good hi-res audio solution but I'd probably go with a Bravo D2 for video rather than putting up with the crush. The math with this scenario is about $300 (street) for the 941, $250 for the Outlaw ICBM, and $250 for the Bravo D2. Throw in your cables and you are under $1K (in fact, you even have some $$$ left over for some hi-res discs :D).

One other assumption I should mention here is that this strategy is based on the release of HD DVD players in late 2005 or early 2006 which starts the whole thing up again. Maybe we'll need THREE DVD players!!! :D

The build quality of these sets is not great but I can't see paying $2K for a "universal" player and then not getting $2K worth of quality especially when the investment in players is likely to be a 1-2 year solution...

Good luck!

[mnilan]

Phil:
There has been an ongoing problem with jitters with SACD over the Denon 5900 digital link. This has been discussed for menths. There is another thread in the DVD Forum that is revisiting this issue. As far as I can tell from the postings here, the problem persists. It sounds to me like it is a problem with the link rather than Denon's treatment of the SACD audio data per se...

[Foxbat121]

mnilan,

From my experience with HD841, I doubt most people even need an ICBM unit at all unless you're a control freak (no pun intended). A lot of owners actually feel there were too much bass and had to change the settings to Large speaker instead of small. However, HD841 has serious problem playing DVD-Audio discs (skips, won't play next song etc.). I was willing to put up with black crush to enjoy this cheap universal player but these problems prompt me to return the unit.

HD941 probably will use the same exact audio circuits as HD841.

[abrahavt]

Can the 841 do Bass Management for SACD and DVD-A or only for DolbyDigital/DTS? If it can do Bass Managemt for SACD and DVD-A
does that mean that it is doing an additional D/A conversion as opposed to doing it in an Outlaw ICBM?

[mnilan]

Foxbat121 & abrahavt:
I have not personally looked at the 841. However, I have read some of the discussions here about it. One aspect of the bass management that I have seen that would concern me is where the crossover is and I believe that it is around 180Hz on the 841 (I haven't gone back to check the exact frequency). The issue here is that not all subwoofers do well up that high and you are potentially under-utilizing your speakers. Note that DD and DTS passed digitally to your receiver via the 841 probably has some bass management (again, I am not an expert on the 841 per se) but this does not NECESSARILY mean that this bass management also effects the analog hi-res (i.e., DVD-Audio and SACD) connections. It is my belief that the bass management in the 841 does not effect the analog 5.1 connections (but I could be wrong... :D)

It is likely that in many HT or media room implementations the speakers are the primary weakness for hi-res audio rather than bass management (and mine is, unfortunately, no exception to this :D). However, getting the sound off the disk and to the speakers in as close to what the engineer(s) intended as possible seems to me to be the ideal that we should aim for. As a musician, the issue is less control than it is fidelity. My two-player strategy above is based on getting the best fidelity (both audio and video) without paying a premium for new-fangled technology that is over-priced and doesn't address all the issues of both.

[Foxbat121]

Since high-res DVD-Audio and SACD (SACD in particular because SACD does not pass through digital connection at all) is primary outputed through 5.1 analog out and the fact that most receivers don't apply any BM on 5.1 analog input, the bass management in 841 (and any other univeral player in this matter) is designed specifically for 5.1 analog out. There is no need for bass management for digital output, i.e. DD/DTS/PCM since receivers will do a better job at it. The bass management of 841 is much better than Pioneer 578a I tested which is almost non-existent.

However, getting the sound off the disk and to the speakers in as close to what the engineer(s) intended as possible seems to me to be the ideal that we should aim for

Yes, that will be ideal but not everyone can afford $10k speakers engineers use.

[BillP]

mnilan,
Thanks for the input. I have a 2-channel stereo system (high quality Rotel preamp and amp, with Sonus Faber tower speakers), and will be hooking up my universal player with 2 RCA analog interconnects for SACD (the preamp does not have a digital connection). I am leaning toward either the Samsung 941 or the Denon 2910, depending on the reviews when they are available (I agree that $2K for a player at this point is not what I want to do, with HD DVD players only a few years away). Given my set-up, I think a universal player is the way to go, rather than 2 separate players (I already have an excellent Rotel CD changer for non-hi res CDs).

[TroySD]

I know this is a VERY unpopular opinion...but I just got an 841 today and I am totally impressed with it on my 50" Kirk.

It took a little bit to get it going (had to have it connected with a S-video cable 1st...then in the 841's menu system switched it to DVI output).

Of course...please understand...I went from a non-progressive DVD player hooked up via S-video to the 841 via DVI. So I saw a considerable (read: REMARKABLE) difference.

I am trying to piece together what the problems people are having with the 841's...so far I can only tell that...

1. Some people can't get the DVI to work...
2. Some people say Bass is too strong...
3. Some people complain of black crush (I haven't seen any problems in blacks thus far. Watched "Clone Wars - Star Wars II" and Monster's Inc so far.

I don't have any of those problems that I can tell, but either way I am probly going to return it in 30 days (when hopefully the 941's will be out).

[Foxbat121]

4. Sound skips on DTS track, especially with DTS EX track
5. Can't play DVD-Audio discs correctly. A lot of times, it will skip or just go mute in the middle of a song.

Your list of 1-3 isn't a big deal. I was willing to live with that for a while until I encounted problem 4 and 5 which happens on two different 841s I owned as well as many other owners. I can't justify waste $200 on a player that can't let me enjoy my movie or my favourite music.

[Woodsea]

I have not bought nor returned an 841. I had pre-ordered the 941 and cancelled it. But through my readings on this and other forums. It seems that the later the manufacturing date a diminishing amount of problems have been discovered, by previous owners. I am thinking it might be a good idea as some have done, is to buy from a B&M and return or trade in within 30 days for the 941.

[-Ever-]

Is the 941 a DVI or HDMI player?

Sorry for asking a seemingly obvious question, but the Samsung website only has the 931 listed.

Thanks guys
-T

[TheDreamer]

Originally posted by -Ever-
Is the 941 a DVI or HDMI player?


I understand it to be an HDMI that comes with an adapter.

The Dreamer

[-Ever-]

Yeah I just found it through a few web searches.

So are there any updates to whether the black level can be adjusted for sure via HDMI (or HDMI-->DVI)?

Thanks
-Tim

[TroySD]

Originally posted by Foxbat121
4. Sound skips on DTS track, especially with DTS EX track
5. Can't play DVD-Audio discs correctly. A lot of times, it will skip or just go mute in the middle of a song.

Your list of 1-3 isn't a big deal. I was willing to live with that for a while until I encounted problem 4 and 5 which happens on two different 841s I owned as well as many other owners. I can't justify waste $200 on a player that can't let me enjoy my movie or my favourite music.

Well (luckily apparently) I have'nt had to live with 1-3 at all since I never had them occur.

Aww...I can see #4 being a BIG problem for me once I get my system totally hooked up properly. Currently I don't have my side/rear (5.1) speakers up yet. We'll find out in the next couple of weeks when I finally get some rears I like.

5. Would never be a problem for me. (Don't use it).

[scervin]

Originally posted by TroySD
It's a Sony (I'm at work and don't remember the model #...I am just now getting semi-serious about equipment and knowing exactly what I have). It does have component out...but currently I just have it hooked up by way of S-video to my 5+ year JVC receiver...then from my JVC via S-video to my Kirk. Also...these s-video cables are cheap ones too (one came with the DVD player and the other is of similar quality).


From what you have said it sounds like I really do need to not judge my picture quality until I get "at least" decent component cables.

I may just skip this and get the Samsung 941...with DVI connection.

I totally appreciate your help all!

ps. Ok...I'm an idiot, what is ISF calibration? Or stear me to a thread where I can learn what that is. Thanks!

Please tell me you don't work in the AV dept. :)

[shanec]

Originally posted by OKAYDAVE
I also ordered mine through TVA. Should we start a 941 PB thread?

YES. Is there a 941 PB? How can I get in on it?

[jbarbbcuny]

Originally posted by shanec
YES. Is there a 941 PB? How can I get in on it?

Yes there is a PB. Click this:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=408018&perpage=20&pagenumber=1
Go the very first posting on the page.
Go to step 1 where it says click this link.
You will get a special TVA page that lists all the power buys now active.
I ordered my 941 throught the PB 3 weeks ago.

[-Ever-]

Do we actually have to call for the PB price like it says, or is there another way to find out what they're going for?

Also, this would be my first PB. Who are the units actually bought through? Are warranties available? Who would returns be made to (in the unlikely event ;) )

Thanks for any info guys
-Tim

[zoro]

how much is PB price?

[BillP]

$250 plus S+H.

[shugazer9]

I am interested in the 941/ ICBM combo. Is this all that is needed to control the volume and SACD/DVD-A outputs or do i need a pre-pro or reciever with 5.1 ins and outs?

[jazzcat]

Originally posted by shugazer9
I am interested in the 941/ ICBM combo. Is this all that is needed to control the volume and SACD/DVD-A outputs or do i need a pre-pro or reciever with 5.1 ins and outs?

The ICBM does not control volume, just sets the crossover points for fronts, center and surrounds. There is a level control for the sub though which is nice because you don't have to get behind the sub to mess with the level for DVD-A and SACD. The receiver/pre pro volume control is used for music volume.

[Foxbat121]

Let me get it straight: you spent $200+ on a DVD player that didn't work and Samsung can't fix it for you. So you're out $200 dollar until HD941 releases and still say their service is great? And worst of all, you don't know if HD941 will have a fix or not. If I were you, I would demand a refund.

[RockStrongo]

Originally posted by Foxbat121
Let me get it straight: you spent $200+ on a DVD player that didn't work and Samsung can't fix it for you. So you're out $200 dollar until HD941 releases and still say their service is great? And worst of all, you don't know if HD941 will have a fix or not. If I were you, I would demand a refund.

The HD931 has a great picture and works fine on most movies. I bought it at Amazon for $199 this summer. The lip synch issue only affects certain movies.

When I notified them of this issue, they promptly sent me a shipping label. I shipped the player to them and they returned it in about 7 days. They could not recreate the issue. When I got it back, I still could see the issue. Mainly on Saving Private Ryan DTS.

I called them back and they had a supervisor call me. He said that the issue cannot be fixed and they would offer me an upgrade for free.

When I get the HD941, it if still has an issue, I will then demand a refund. To this point, they have provided prompt customer service and have been very helpful in trying to get this resolved.

What more would you want?

[BillP]

The 941 is a more expensive and better player (also a universal). If they are giving you a free upgrade, I agree that speaks highly of their service commitment. As you say, if the 941 is no better, then you can always start asking for a refund.

[-Ever-]

Lets still keep on hoping for it to come out sooner than later ;) I'm stuck without a player until it comes out as well.

-T

[Foxbat121]

The original MSRP of 931 is the same as 941 ($299). Apart from the addition of DVD-A/SACD, and HDMI vs DVI, 941 and 931 are similar. Both have Faroudja chip. As for 941 is a better player, nobody know that yet. HD841, reportedly what 941will be based on, also have problem with DTS. Both 931 and 841 have black crush problem. It is still too early to know how 941 works out.

My suggestion to RockStrongo is ask for refund now. And wait and see how 941 really works out. The internet pricing I read is already around $250. It'll be no doubt overtime, 941 could be cheaper than what you paid for the 931 (which is on clearence on my local BB for $150 for a while now).

[-Ever-]

If the 941 winds up having just as many problems, is there any other HDMI player slated to come out soon?

-T

[RockStrongo]

Originally posted by Foxbat121
The original MSRP of 931 is the same as 941 ($299). Apart from the addition of DVD-A/SACD, and HDMI vs DVI, 941 and 931 are similar. Both have Faroudja chip. As for 941 is a better player, nobody know that yet. HD841, reportedly what 941will be based on, also have problem with DTS. Both 931 and 841 have black crush problem. It is still too early to know how 941 works out.

My suggestion to RockStrongo is ask for refund now. And wait and see how 941 really works out. The internet pricing I read is already around $250. It'll be no doubt overtime, 941 could be cheaper than what you paid for the 931 (which is on clearence on my local BB for $150 for a while now).

I appreciate the advice. I really do not mind waiting for the switch though. The HD931 is fine for me now. I just wanted to get it resolved at some point. I think it will best compliment my HLP6163.

Also, I do not think that I would be able to get a 941 at this point for $199 + free shipping (what I paid for 931 in June).

Now, if they are slow to switch and/or they start delaying me, then I may be singing a different tune in the future.

After the switch, if I am unsatisfied with the 941, then I will demand a refund.

[Foxbat121]

There are Panasonic S97 and Sony (forgot the model number), as well as new Denons. All coming this fall.

[shanec]

Originally posted by Foxbat121
There are Panasonic S97 and Sony (forgot the model number), as well as new Denons. All coming this fall.

I believe the Sony is a DVP-NS975V

Amazon info here:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0002KQR28/ref=e_de_a_smtpd/103-4428125-8167002?v=glance&s=electronics&vi=tech-data

[BillP]

Originally posted by Foxbat121
The original MSRP of 931 is the same as 941 ($299). Apart from the addition of DVD-A/SACD, and HDMI vs DVI, 941 and 931 are similar. Both have Faroudja chip. As for 941 is a better player, nobody know that yet.

I believe the 941 lists for $350, not $299, although Best Buy will probably carry it for $299. The audio DACs (by Philips) are vastly superior to those in the 931, plus the SACD/DVD-A capabilities. And it offers black level adjustment. Looks to me like a significant improvement. Agree with you that we won't know about actual performance until it's available.

[Woodsea]

Neither the Panasonic nor the Sony are true Universals. So it looks as if the 941 or the 2910 are in the running for my money. The Samsung may have a better chance as I will have more money to mod it.

[zoro]

Yup, I'll check out Samsung first before, I shell out for 2910

[-Ever-]

Where is the place to look for updates on the real release date of the player? I'd frequent Samsung's website but they don't even have a page for the 941.

Thanks.
-Tim

[zoro]

try calling onecall or ecost.com

[Terry.P]

Originally posted by -Ever-
Where is the place to look for updates on the real release date of the player? I'd frequent Samsung's website but they don't even have a page for the 941.

Thanks.
-Tim

http://www.samsungusa.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_detail.jsp?eUser=&prod_id=DVD-HD941%2fXAA

[-Ever-]

I don't see a place for the release date.

Sorry for the incompetence... ;)

-Tim

[Syzygy]

But the Samsung 941 page does list "10 Sec Instant Replay/Instant Skip" as a feature. Funny how nobody mentions this... To me it's a killer feature.

[J Borsh]

Is there a list of competing products for this bottom-dollar player with DVI and upscaling abilities?

Thanks!

[mallu2u]

Originally posted by -Ever-
Where is the place to look for updates on the real release date of the player? I'd frequent Samsung's website but they don't even have a page for the 941.

Thanks.
-Tim

Page for Samsung: http://www.samsungusa.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_detail.jsp?eUser=&prod_id=DVD-HD941%2fXAA

[mallu2u]

Originally posted by J Borsh
Is there a list of competing products for this bottom-dollar player with DVI and upscaling abilities?

Thanks!

I maintain this thread that would interest you: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=423609

Also..folks who buy 841 or 941 and have impressions or reviews, please post on the thread above. It would really help us all.

[HDTVFAN0001]

I've been waiting for the capabilities of the 941 for a year now (and have been following the moving rumored release dates). After seeing the quality issues with the 841, and the continued postponement on the 941, I finally went out and changed to the Zenith DVB318 - very happy with it. Only thing it misses is the SACD of the 941, and I already had that in my second Home Theater DVD unit. Unit quality is very good.

It's a shame they keep promising this kind of new stuff with great features and then either take forever to get it out or else underdeliver on quality (841). I had hope a good 941 would be on the market months ago.

[J Borsh]

So can you purchase the Zenith at local stores, or is it an internet order type of product?

[mallu2u]

Zenith is available at Bestbuy.com. Can be returned to them if needed, at their local stores.

[Kaysadea]

Has TVA starting shipping the 941 yet? I just contacted Onecall and they indicated a November ship date! :eek:

[BigGoose]

According to TVA (post on power buy thread in the rear projection forum), the 941 will not be available until November.

[DHT]

I guess if we try to be optimistic we can think Samsung is delaying the release of the 941 so they can fix all the issues people have reported with the 931 and the 841. Another 3 months though makes the Zenith318 look a little better. Maybe we'll see the Sony soon and it will satisfy us. Who knows.

[PhilB]

Originally posted by DHT
I guess if we try to be optimistic we can think Samsung is delaying the release of the 941 so they can fix all the issues people have reported with the 931 and the 841. Another 3 months though makes the Zenith318 look a little better. Maybe we'll see the Sony soon and it will satisfy us. Who knows.

I would be (and am) considering the Denon 1910 well before any of those players.

-phil

[mallu2u]

oh oh..even sammy has been delayed! Damn..that makes Panny and Sammy in November...

[mallu2u]

leaves us with Momistu, Zenith, Denon and maybe Sony now...

[Kaysadea]

Heck, maybe we should all just wait for the HD DVD players....

[HDTVFAN0001]

Originally posted by Kaysadea
Heck, maybe we should all just wait for the HD DVD players....
I'm not waiting 2 years...got the Zenith DVB 318.

Works great - 1080i via component or DVI.

[Syzygy]

Kaysadea (quesadilla? cute) said:
Heck, maybe we should all just wait for the HD DVD players...Yeah, that may indeed be the best option. By then maybe there'll be A/V receivers that have two or more DVI/HDMI inputs -- which I'll need to use both my HD-DTiVo and a SOTA DVD player.

[jcord51]

Originally posted by Syzygy
But the Samsung 941 page does list "10 Sec Instant Replay/Instant Skip" as a feature. Funny how nobody mentions this... To me it's a killer feature. So does the Zenith 318.

[Kaysadea]

Originally posted by Syzygy
Yeah, that may indeed be the best option. By then maybe there'll be A/V receivers that have two or more DVI/HDMI inputs -- which I'll need to use both my HD-DTiVo and a SOTA DVD player.

That's why I waited to buy a Samsung HLP, as it has both a DVI (for VOOM) and HDMI (was reserved for the 941, but now...???)

[RMSko]

Am I right that the Zenith only passes 1080i? I have a Samsung DLP and would prefer a 720p DVD player. Discrete codes and HDMI/DVI are also a must. I assume there is nothing presently out that satisfies all this. Does anyone have any thoughts?

[BigandLoud1234]

Not sure Zenith has discrete codes, but it will upconvert to 720p if you so choose. It has DVI also. All upconverting DVD players will give the option of 720P. Besides the Sammy 941, I think the Denon players all have discrete IR codes as well, not sure about the others

[abrahavt]

Can someone point me to a web site where I can learn more about discrete codes and how to use them.

[NorthJersey]

www.remotecentral.com

[cjv123]

i went ahead and pre-ordered one of these today. it is a fraction of the cost of the high-end players preferred in here, and it has an unequalled set of features.

[jazzcat]

Originally posted by cjv123
i went ahead and pre-ordered one of these today. it is a fraction of the cost of the high-end players preferred in here, and it has an unequalled set of features.

The problem is with the miserable performance with the 841. Loader problems, black crush, audio problems and overall quality concerns. It does not have an unequalled set of features as compared with the Denon 2910 or 3910. Granted they cost more but I think you get what you pay for. Maybe the 941 will be a great low cost DVD player but I am unwilling to wait for a product that was origanilly going to ship in July and now has a release date in November. Hopefully Samsung will get it right but I am unwilling to wait three more months. I'm going with the Denon 2910 or 3910.

[Kpt_Krunch]

Now it's NOVEMBER!!!! Holy smokes, something must be wrong for yet another delay. Maybe, just maybe, Samsung will go to the video standard for DVI out, fix the loader, and fix the audio problems (DTS I think, right?), making it worth the wait. I mean, if they do nothing, other than adding the Faroudja chip, with this delay, sales will be really low as you'd be better off getting 841 for less money!

[cjv123]

Originally posted by jazzcat
The problem is with the miserable performance with the 841. Loader problems, black crush, audio problems and overall quality concerns. It does not have an unequalled set of features as compared with the Denon 2910 or 3910. Granted they cost more but I think you get what you pay for. Maybe the 941 will be a great low cost DVD player but I am unwilling to wait for a product that was origanilly going to ship in July and now has a release date in November. Hopefully Samsung will get it right but I am unwilling to wait three more months. I'm going with the Denon 2910 or 3910.

well, the price difference is relatively huge, $1300 versus $300. i will roll the dice. i need to use HDMI (my PC will use my DVI input) so im in a thin market here.

[jazzcat]

cjv123, you are right about the price difference. I had a 941 pre ordered with both Amazon and TVA but cancelled them. I really don't want to spend the extra $$ but I don't think I have the patience to wait to see how the 941 performs.

I rolled the dice with Samsung when I bought the first 50" DLP almost 2 years ago and I have been very happy with it (after getting it ISF calibrated). So you may very well wind up with a good universal player at a decent price.

Kpt_Krunch, I think the 841 did have problems with both DTS and DVD-A audio dropouts. And another issue I have is that they won't play a multi resolution DVD-A, like the sampler discs being offered by hi res websites with both 96/24 and 192/24 formats.

[Iceblade]

jazzcat,

Mind if I ask if you used Steve Martin to cal your Sammy? If not, can I ask who you DID use? IIRC, Carollton is out DFW way, right? There are quite of a few of us in Houston who are SOL as far as ISF guys who know their derrier from a hole in the ground when it comes to fixed pixel displays, and specifically Sammy DLPs, so in all likelihood a tour from one of "THE" ISF gurus would be the only way we will be close to satisfied with paying for an ISF cal.

Thanks,
Jeff


Originally posted by jazzcat
cjv123, you are right about the price difference. I had a 941 pre ordered with both Amazon and TVA but cancelled them. I really don't want to spend the extra $$ but I don't think I have the patience to wait to see how the 941 performs.

I rolled the dice with Samsung when I bought the first 50" DLP almost 2 years ago and I have been very happy with it (after getting it ISF calibrated). So you may very well wind up with a good universal player at a decent price.

Kpt_Krunch, I think the 841 did have problems with both DTS and DVD-A audio dropouts. And another issue I have is that they won't play a multi resolution DVD-A, like the sampler discs being offered by hi res websites with both 96/24 and 192/24 formats.

[jazzcat]

Originally posted by Iceblade
jazzcat,

Mind if I ask if you used Steve Martin to cal your Sammy? If not, can I ask who you DID use? IIRC, Carollton is out DFW way, right? There are quite of a few of us in Houston who as SOL as far as ISF guys who know their derrier from a hole in the ground when it comes to fixed pixel displays, and specifically Sammy DLPs, so in all likelihood a tour from one of "THE" ISF gurus would be the only way we will be close to satisfied with paying for an ISF cal.

Thanks,
Jeff

Hi Jeff, I used Don with Krystal Klear Audio Video in Plano. He has DLP experience. Carrollton is just North of Dallas. The difference was night and day with my set. Colors were right on and whites and blacks were more realistic. Picture has a 3-D apperance, especially with HDTV and DVD. The only issue i had was he did not have a DVD player with DVI output, so when I get the Denon, he is going to come back and do any necessary tweaks through the DVI input. But I do have a HDTV set-top box connected through DVI and since a lot of the adjustments were global it looks pretty darned good now too.

I think if an ISF "Guru" that is experienced in DLP's came to Dallas, I think I would have it checked out by him just to make sure it was at its peak. Does Steve Martin have DLP experience?

[Iceblade]

jazzcat,

I think he does, but I am not 100% certain of that. It seems to me that Seth S. (Sammy DLP ISF dude extraordinaire) mentioned him as a recommended ISF dude... but I'm not certain of that. You can always email Seth and ask him for a recommendation in your neck of the woods. He works with guy's in several places throughout the US and they all have access to his current bank of knowledge.

Regs,
Jeff

[jazzcat]

Jeff, could you PM me or post (if that is allowed) with Seth's email address?

Thanks,

Mark

[Iceblade]

Sure... or you can just look it up under his profile here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=55678

His website is http://www.AVConsulting.US His email is listed there. His list name here on AVS is SethS.

Good luck,
Jeff


Originally posted by jazzcat
Jeff, could you PM me or post (if that is allowed) with Seth's email address?

Thanks,

Mark

[jazzcat]

Thanks Jeff!

[mrpman]

Just a Note:

I decided to do a yahoo search of the HD941, and It came up at "ecost"
for 239.95, so I called them because it said it normally ships in 2-3 days.
They said they didn't have any, they were supposed to get 32 units on the 20th(he didn't say what month). He also said that there are 50 back-orders existing on them now, and that the first 32 people who ordered would probably get theirs when they came in(he didn't have a date for when they were expecting the 32).

It was a little misleading on the web site because it did not say out of stock or backorder. Be careful when looking!

[TroySD]

Amazon has it listed as Sept. 30th now. (not sure if it was always this but either way it's dissapointing)

per Amazon...
Availability: This item will be released on September 30, 2004. You may order it now and we will ship it to you when it arrives.

[mallu2u]

There are rumors that the player has been delayed till november. This is what I read on one of the threads here...

[abrahavt]

According to TVA which is coducting a Power Buy for Sammy DLPs the 941 will not be available till Nov. Apparently they were told that by Samsumg.

[TheSkeptiks]

I must be crazy...I know I saw the 941 @ BB this weekend. I even saw the box for the DVD player and it said 941 on it. The 941 looks great. A lot thinner then the 931. The BB had the 931 on clearance.

But, like I said...I might be crazy because the consensus on here is that it is not out until Nov.

[coati858]

perhaps it was an 841?

[Kaysadea]

Originally posted by TheSkeptiks
I must be crazy...I know I saw the 941 @ BB this weekend. I even saw the box for the DVD player and it said 941 on it. The 941 looks great. A lot thinner then the 931. The BB had the 931 on clearance.

But, like I said...I might be crazy because the consensus on here is that it is not out until Nov.

Yes, this is definite proof that you're crazy.

[TheSkeptiks]

HAHAHA.

I guess it was the 841.

Sorry guys. Going off my short term memory which is sometimes a little "hazy" when I go to BB for some window shopping.

later

[shanec]

OK, so the 941 will be available in Sept. Well, its almost Sept. What gives? The Denon 1910 is also available in Sept, the 1st week of Sept. What to do, what to do.

[zoro]

hd-941 better value imho

[mallu2u]

Did TVA not tell another AVS member that 941 shall be released in November and not Septmber to fix issues seen in 841?

[JBaumgart]

Can someone summarize what the 941 has in the way of bass management capabilities? Is the audio section going to be exactly the same as the 841?

[King of Pain]

941 in November. I had the 941 on preorder from TVA. Canceled it. Now I'm looking for a DVI/SACD/DVD AUDIO player that won't cost me an arm and a leg. Any suggections? Denon or Sony around the corner.

[Pclassr]

very good.

[Woodsea]

The 841 I just bought has not hiccuped yet. It was manufactured in June. How 'bout that for a suggestion

[mallu2u]

Originally posted by King of Pain
941 in November. I had the 941 on preorder from TVA. Canceled it. Now I'm looking for a DVI/SACD/DVD AUDIO player that won't cost me an arm and a leg. Any suggections? Denon or Sony around the corner.

denon 1910, Momitsu V880 Deluxe, Zenith DVB 318...if u can wait..Sony and Panny S97..check my thread for more players: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=423609

[King of Pain]

The 1910 v880 and zenith 318 do not do SACD or DVD Audio. The 841, according to some, has major quality issues. I think it's down to the sony or denon 2910. I trust Denon more than Sony. I need SACD more than DVD-Audio. Oh well, Looks like I'm going to missing an arm and leg pretty soon.

[LeeG23]

So I don't think we have come to a definite conclusion - can the 941 upscale while still maintaining correct 4:3 aspect? This is necessary. I do not want stretched 4:3 material.

It seems like the 1910 will do this properly, but loses support for sacd and dvda.

I have preordered the 941 - so I will let you know if it does it - if we can't get an answer before then....

Lee

[mallu2u]

King of Pain: Yup! Both Sony and Panny are semi-universal. Sony shall support only SACD while Panny shall support only DVD Audio. There shall be a trade-off unless you opt for a Denon 2910 or something similar or Sammy 941. I agree that Panny & Denon has far better reputation than Sony for these players.

[TechLarry]

How about remote useability? I have to be directly in front of the darned thing and no more than 6 feet away or the remote won't function.

Tried various remotes and they are all the same.

-Larry

Originally posted by Woodsea
The 841 I just bought has not hiccuped yet. It was manufactured in June. How 'bout that for a suggestion

[Foxbat121]

Originally posted by Woodsea
The 841 I just bought has not hiccuped yet. It was manufactured in June. How 'bout that for a suggestion

I had 841s that were built in May and June and both had hiccups. The June-built 841 does have less issues, i.e. DVI reset problem. Both can not play DVD-Audio discs error free.

[TechLarry]

Well, I just tossed this 841 into the spare bedroom. I would return it, but I can't find the receipt. Argh!!!

I tried to use it again last night, and I never could get the thing to work out of the component video ports. I had originally done the cryptic procedure to get it to output on DVI, but since I moved the rack the short cable they provided won't reach any more.

And I'm not spending $120 for a 16 footer. Not for this creature...

Audio Skips, video output issues, remote control range of about 2 feet, man I can't _believe_ Samsung shipped this obviously defective product.

Thankfully my new HLP5050 DLP Samsung TV seems to have FAR better design and workmanship than this thing does.

I've ordered a Zenith 318 to replace it. It's not perfect, but it gets reasonably good reviews and none of the nonsense I've had with this thing. It was cheap, and will hold me over until the next round of players comes out.

Thanks for all the input folks!

-Larry

[Syzygy]

More and more I'm leaning toward keeping the only DVD player I've ever bought: My trusty $200 Toshiba SD-2109, now over five years old and still going strong. (Every once in a while it hangs up when I turn it on, and needs to be unplugged. That's all the trouble I've ever had with it.)

Who's making the crap players we're being offered today? Outer Mongolia?

[jbarbbcuny]

I'm thinking of canceling my 941 order with TVA and putting my money toward a dvd recorder-tivo combo - maybe one of the new ones due out this fall. Then give HD dvd players a few more years and see what develops.

[mallu2u]

Originally posted by jbarbbcuny
I'm thinking of canceling my 941 order with TVA and putting my money toward a dvd recorder-tivo combo - maybe one of the new ones due out this fall. Then give HD dvd players a few more years and see what develops.

which company? what model #? Sounds interesting.

[jbarbbcuny]

Originally posted by mallu2u
which company? what model #? Sounds interesting.

I don't know much except that Humax is coming out with something that's supposed to be cheaper than what's on the market now. It's being discussed on the TiVo list at http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?threadid=188343
Dates of release uncertain and then it remains to be seen what price/performance amounts to.
Humax should be out soon. In fact I thought it was already out but I was wrong.

[zoro]

How about Sony, I saw press relerase for cheaper HD DVRS

[jbarbbcuny]

Originally posted by zoro
How about Sony, I saw press relerase for cheaper HD DVRS

I'm not even sure I'd necessarily go HD on the DVR yet...still mulling it over.

[TechLarry]

I rent mine for $9 a month from my Cable Company. HD and DVR :)

It's no Tivo, but it's dual-channel recording and it gets the job done.

Most of the time :)

-Larry

[dennya]

Any updates on the 941? If it's Nov., I'm going to run out of "return time" on my mediocre 841.

[mallu2u]

dennya: Look for other options...like Momitsu, denon 1910 and 2910...they are only ones that are going to make it in time...

[TechLarry]

How about the Zenith 318 ?

It's pretty cheap, has DVI, and doesn't seem anywhere near as terrible as the 841.

Larry