Pioneer MCACC question

[Dave3G]

I'm not sure where to set the volume on my subwoofer before running the MCACC on my VSX-2012. The manual says on page 14 to "make sure [the subwoofer] is turned on and has the volume turned up," but it doesn't say how high to set the volume. I have a Hsu VTF-3 MK 2 subwoofer. With my old receiver, I had the volume on the sub set at about 7:30 on the dial and calibrated from there with a Radio Shack SPL meter. Should I just use that volume setting, or should I try something else?

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

Dave

[Landroval]

Set the volume at the sub, not the receiver.

[cpu8088]

set the vol of the sub at mid level for the start

the pio mcacc will set the speaker levels including the sub to ensure a smooth interface with the other surround speakers

just ensure the pio level not being recal to +10 or -10 which means the vol level of the sub was being set out of range. in this case you may have to reduce or increase slightly the volume settings of the sub

[Dave3G]

Thanks, guys. I'll try it with the sub volume at the mid level.

Dave

[Steve S]

In my experience the receiver's sub output would not reliably trigger the sub's auto-on feature unless it was set at 0db or so. Of course this varies according to the sensitivity of the sub's auto-on circuit, but I'd still aim for an auto-calibrated sub setting close to 0db. You can do this by adjusting the sub's volume knob down or up and repeating the auto setup until you get close to a 0 db sub setting.

[cpu8088]

on the sub set the phase at 0 and crossover to max so the pio receiver to do the crossover (preferably at 80hz) for the start.

you may need adjustments to experiment placement, phase integration etc but these can be done later once you live with your sub for a while

btw hows the 2012 and the hsu sub sound now? seems good combination. try out u-571 with dts and tell us your impression

[Idahoguy]

I have to set up a new sub -- my first-ever sub -- this weekend using Pioneer MCACC. I'm still confused by these responses. So set the sub volume at midway or not before you run MCACC? And shouldn't you let the MCACC set the crossover?

If anybody truly knows what should be done, can you please post a point-by-point description of what to do when setting up a sub, including volume, crossover, phase, etc.?

Thanks.

[Franchot]

Originally posted by Idahoguy
I have to set up a new sub -- my first-ever sub -- this weekend using Pioneer MCACC. I'm still confused by these responses. So set the sub volume at midway or not before you run MCACC? And shouldn't you let the MCACC set the crossover?

If anybody truly knows what should be done, can you please post a point-by-point description of what to do when setting up a sub, including volume, crossover, phase, etc.?

Thanks.

I have a 56TXi and the same sub as Dave G (Hsu VTF-3 Mk2) along with Monitor Audio speakers (large bookshelf) all around.

MCACC does a pretty good job of smoothing out the sound problems in my room, but some of the results it comes up with I don't want or agree with.

(For example, it set all my speakers to large. I set them to small because I want this big, powerful sub to be doing its lion's share of the bass work. MCACC set my crossover at 50, but I reset it to 80 because again I wanted the sub to do more work.)

As far as the initial set-up, before I ran MCACC, I set my sub to a little less than half its potential volume with phase at zero and the crossover at 80 (which is the "universal" crossover setting.) MCACC came back with a -10 for my sub which indicates to me that I had potentially put my sub's volume up too high for the inital set-up. I redid the automatic set-up again with a lower sub volume, but I still got a -10 result. I turned down the sub so that it was barely registering and got a zero result--BUT I wasn't getting the type of powerful bass "I" like. (I want to empasize the word "I" because although the MCACC might have been 100% accurate with its results, I like a firm, strong bass "feel" when I watch movies or listen to music.) So, I set the sub's volume to a little more than quarter volume, adjusted the e.q. on the receiver for the bass response, and found a level that satisfied me sonically--not boomy and muddy, but musical and firm.

I think a sub is the trickiest thing to calbibrate. My advice would be to run the MCACC a couple of times with different volume settings until you get it close to what you like, and then tweak it from there. Theres is no right or wrong level you can set it at since you are only trying to please yourself and your ears, not some pre-determined computer program.

[rclapham]

I initially ran the MCACC on my Pioneer 1014 with the subs crossover set all the way up, and the volume at 1/2. MCACC set the sub at -10db so I ran I ran it again with the subs volume at 1/4. This gave me a setting closer to 0db. Music sounded great but I wanted a little more low end with movies. I raised the setting 2db which was too hot for music and then lowered it back 1db. I'm pleased with the result.

[StuartV]

Originally posted by Idahoguy
I have to set up a new sub -- my first-ever sub -- this weekend using Pioneer MCACC. I'm still confused by these responses. So set the sub volume at midway or not before you run MCACC? And shouldn't you let the MCACC set the crossover?

To summarize what has been said:

1. Set the sub volume to halfway up.

2. Run MCACC.

3. Check the MCACC setting for the sub.

4. If it's +xx dB, then adjust the sub volume up a little and go back to Step 2.

5. If it's -xx dB then adjust the sub volume down a little and go back to Step 2.

6. If MCACC set the sub level to 0, then you're done.

In an ideal world, "equalization" would be set to 0. Setting, for example, all EQ levels to +5 is not the same as everything at 0, only a little louder. Any equalization that is done is applied as a curve with some slope to it (maybe 6dB per octave, maybe 12, 24, etc.). So, a flat signal with EQ set to 0 everywhere comes out as a flat signal. But a flat signal with EQ set to +5 on every band, does not come out as a flat signal 5 dB louder - it comes out as a line with humps in it at every band in the EQ. I.e. if your receiver or EQ has 7 bands of equalization, then the flat signal comes out as a line with 7 humps in it.

You don't have control over the gain/cut at any of the other speakers in your system, like you do with the sub, so you can't mess with them. But, on the sub you can, which is why you should try to adjust your volume on the sub and calibration until you have a 0 for the speaker level adjustment on the sub in the receiver.

(whew! this post turned out a lot longer that I planned on!)

[StuartV]

Originally posted by Franchot
(For example, it set all my speakers to large. I set them to small because I want this big, powerful sub to be doing its lion's share of the bass work. MCACC set my crossover at 50, but I reset it to 80 because again I wanted the sub to do more work.)

Doesn't this somewhat obviate the usefulness of MCACC? I mean, let's go with what you said. MCACC sets the fronts to Large, and the xover to 50, and adjusts the EQ and speaker levels based on that. Fronts set to Large means MCACC calibrated everything with the fronts getting a full range signal. And the sub getting a signal that rolls off above 50 Hz.

After you change the Fronts to Small and the xover to 80, the Fronts are now getting full signal above 80 and rolled off below 80, which takes away from your bass. But the sub is now getting the signal from the bottom all the way up to 80 and rolling off above that, which adds to the bass.

But, how do you know how much the one change takes away from the overall sound production, versus how much the other one adds? How do you know you didn't change a flat line signal reproduction to something with a serious hump or dip in it between 50 and 80 Hz?

How do you know that taking away the Fronts job of reproducing signal below 80 didn't change the shape of what it reproduces above that? For example, suppose that the mid-range driver in your fronts has a slightly higher sensitivity than your tweeters. So now, with the extra power coming in, the midrange frequencies are a little louder, relative to the highs. I.e. the equalization that MCACC came up with for the mids and highs is thrown off, too, by what you did to the speaker size and xover settings.

Obviously, all that *really* matters is that you like it better. So, if you do, then good on ya'.

For me, I like hearing exactly what the artist intended. I.e. I would *like* to have a perfectly flat response curve all the way from 1 Hz to 25K Hz. In which case, barring use of some very expensive test equipment, which I don't even have available to me, I would be hard-pressed to convince myself that my own tweaks (of the nature you described) could be closer to yielding a flat response curve than what MCACC comes up with.

[Franchot]

Originally posted by StuartV
Doesn't this somewhat obviate the usefulness of MCACC? I mean, let's go with what you said. MCACC sets the fronts to Large, and the xover to 50, and adjusts the EQ and speaker levels based on that. Fronts set to Large means MCACC calibrated everything with the fronts getting a full range signal. And the sub getting a signal that rolls off above 50 Hz.

After you change the Fronts to Small and the xover to 80, the Fronts are now getting full signal above 80 and rolled off below 80, which takes away from your bass. But the sub is now getting the signal from the bottom all the way up to 80 and rolling off above that, which adds to the bass.

But, how do you know how much the one change takes away from the overall sound production, versus how much the other one adds? How do you know you didn't change a flat line signal reproduction to something with a serious hump or dip in it between 50 and 80 Hz?

How do you know that taking away the Fronts job of reproducing signal below 80 didn't change the shape of what it reproduces above that? For example, suppose that the mid-range driver in your fronts has a slightly higher sensitivity than your tweeters. So now, with the extra power coming in, the midrange frequencies are a little louder, relative to the highs. I.e. the equalization that MCACC came up with for the mids and highs is thrown off, too, by what you did to the speaker size and xover settings.

Obviously, all that *really* matters is that you like it better. So, if you do, then good on ya'.

For me, I like hearing exactly what the artist intended. I.e. I would *like* to have a perfectly flat response curve all the way from 1 Hz to 25K Hz. In which case, barring use of some very expensive test equipment, which I don't even have available to me, I would be hard-pressed to convince myself that my own tweaks (of the nature you described) could be closer to yielding a flat response curve than what MCACC comes up with.

I agree with your statements except I am of the thinking that MCACC doesn't do a "perfect" job. (I have "Advanced" MCACC on my receiver which I would assume does a better job than "regular" MCACC, but I still don't think its perfect. Especially in regards to the bass. Some people have reported that MCACC sets the distance too far away from where the actual subwoofer is located, for example.)

Now, I've listened to some recordings with the way MCACC suggested my system should be (with the fronts large) and it sounds all right, but I prefer the sound I get when I set the fronts to "small" because my fronts are not tower speakers, but merely bookshelf speakers which are only capable of so much.

As far as hearing exactly what an artist intended...well, the quality of the sound as recorded by the producer and engineer can be all across the spectrum and not really what the artist intended. (For example, have you ever listened to Bob Dylan's "Blood On The Tracks" in its original vinyl state? Compare that to the CD version. Compare that to the new SACD stereo version. Compare that to the new SACD multi-channel version. Which one is the way the artist originally intended it to sound? The vinyl LP of 1975 I would assume. Well, I bought a copy of this LP when it first came out and it sounds pretty anemic compared to the SACD versions. So maybe Mr. Dylan didn't sign off on the SACD versions? How about the new DVD-A of "Pet Sounds" which Brian Wilson okayed. Supposedly the HDCD version of the 1990s is better. And on and on...)

I'm not one who thinks its "sacrilegious" to fiddle with the tone, treble, bass, volume, crossover, phase, e.q. bands, etc. to achieve a more "pleasing" sound "to my ears" than what the artist originally intended. (Hey, whose hearing are you going to trust? Mine or Pete Townshend's? Just kidding.)

The questions you brought up in your post are things that I long considered before starting on my tweaking mission. Heck, I've only had the receiver for about two weeks and I'm still in the experimental stages with it. No doubt I'll go back and rerun MCACC and try its results for a while. Who knows? It might grow on me and be better than I thought.

But for the time being, I don't think it hurts to tweak the MCACC a little to get a more satisfactory sound--which is the original idea I wanted to get across to the person who started this thread. Your results and mileage may vary, however.

[ss9001]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Franchot
(For example, it set all my speakers to large. I set them to small because I want this big, powerful sub to be doing its lion's share of the bass work. MCACC set my crossover at 50, but I reset it to 80 because again I wanted the sub to do more work.)

I guess I'm confused on this statement. I haave had both the 49TXi and now a 59Txi with Advanced MCACC. Neither receiver set the X-over automatically. That is a setting the user sets manually. MCACC then EQ's Large speakers from 63 Hz on and Small speakers from 125 Hz on.

Unless they've changed something on the lower-priced rec'rs, I don't see how your X-over was effected. Maybe it got changed accidently when manipulating the remote keys. I know I have to be careful myself, since too long a time with the key pressed will fast forward thru the settings. Just a thought. But logically, what would be the purpose of setting the X-over yourself and then having the MCACC overwrite what the user entered? I don't think it has the capability to do that. I also haven't read about any other pre/pro automatically setting a X-over. On what basis would an algorithm use to make that choice?

ss9001

[Franchot]

^^^^^^^
You may be correct about Advanced MCACC not being able to set the sub's crossover. The first time I ran MCACC I did so without checking to see at what crossover point the receiver had it set to. It could very well have been set at 50. In which case, I stand corrected. (I ran MCACC a second time with it "manually" set to 80.)

[noah katz]

"I would *like* to have a perfectly flat response curve all the way from 1 Hz to 25K Hz."

You may *think* that's what you want, but if you heard it I doubt you'd like it. Rooms absorb high freq's more than lower ones, so if speakers are EQ'd for flat you get a hot high end.

Bearing this out, Audyssey's MukltEQ target response is *not* flat, it has a high freq rolloff designed in.

[lirong]

Can someone advise me then on this...

I have PSB T45s for my fronts and a C40 for my center channel. The specs are:

T45:
+/- 3dB 35-23,000Hz
LF Cutoff - 30Hz

C40:
+/- 3dB 50-23,000Hz
LF Cutoff 45Hz

To this I have just added an HSU STF-2 sub.

First of all, to make sure I understand, which of these specs are the ones that should drive my decision on how to make use of the subwoofer? Does this mean my towers reproduce bass down to 35Hz or 30 (whats the difference between the +/- 3dB number and the LF Cutoff)?

With this type of setup (my rear speakers are small paradigm micros) should I leave my fronts set to LARGE or should I set them to SMALL since thats the THX standard? Similarly, should I set the crossover below 80 since I have towers, or should I set it to 80Hz since thats also the THX standard? And what about my Center - Large or Small?

By the way I will primarily use this for home theater and my guess is that I may not even use my subwoofer for music, only movies.

[StuartV]

Originally posted by noah katz
"I would *like* to have a perfectly flat response curve all the way from 1 Hz to 25K Hz."

You may *think* that's what you want, but if you heard it I doubt you'd like it. Rooms absorb high freq's more than lower ones, so if speakers are EQ'd for flat you get a hot high end.

Bearing this out, Audyssey's MukltEQ target response is *not* flat, it has a high freq rolloff designed in.

To be more clear, I should have said: I would *like* to have a response curve that sounds perfectly flat in my listening environment, at my listening position, from 1 Hz to 25K Hz. Better?

And, I believe that that is the intention of systems like MCACC that calibrate themselves using a mic placed at your intended listening position. How successful these systems are at doing that is another subject.

[graphicguy]

noah....Advanced MCACC allows you to use the "X-Curve" which allegedly is the flatest attainable in your given room. Some like this, some don't.

Also, with at least the 55TXi, 56 TXi and 59 TXi, Pioneer "can mimic the "AIR STUDIO'" acoustics, which according to some, is the best acoustic environment around. I have no indication that it is indeed the case, though.

[Idahoguy]

Got my sub today.
Man, it's a nice-looking sub (Acoustic Visions MRS-10), but I'm about ready to pull my hair out.
Set up is trickier than I thought it would be.

After running MCACC about six times to get the dB level near 0, what I am slowly growing to understand is that if I don't MANUALLY set my speakers to SMALL, the sub won't even come on during most music. Only during classical stuff with super low-end. After the auto-setup, MCACC chose LARGE fronts for me, which is sort of strange, considering that I have B&W 602 bookshelf speakers. However, if I override and set them to SMALL, then the sub comes on ALL the time for bass during music, which I DO NOT prefer. I think I want the sub just to stay off during music for the most part. Because to be honest, those B&W 602s put out some very nice mid-bass. Nicer than any sub, in my opinion.

I really just bought this sub to get some rumble, so I decided to watch a few action movies and see if it activated during explosions even if the front speakers were set to LARGE. It did. Which I was pleased to discover.

So as stupid as this solution is, I pretty much crank up the sub to 1/2 volume all the time (I had to set it to about 1/4 volume during initial setup to get that 0 dB rating). That way, I get rumble during action movies, BUT, since it doesn't push any air on 99 percent of regular two-channel music listening (a good thing), I never hear any overkill volume from the sub.

Does this make sense to people? Or am I going at this all wrong? The truth is, I've never liked subwoofers with my music (at least as long as I've had these sweet B&W speakers), so having the sub only rear its head during music is sort of a blessing. Which is silly, considering that I bought a "musical" sub ... but oh well. It sure is aesthetically pleasing! And it does sound good.
By the way, I tweaked the crossover from 80 to 50. But after running MCACC again, the crossover was still set at 50. I'm not certain whether MCACC changes the crossover or not. If it does, then it finally decided to set mine at 50, which I like. (What I DO NOT like is that the Pio only has a setting of 80 and 50, with nothing in between.)

Oh, and one more caveat. If you run a 7-channel SURROUND mode, the sub suddenly becomes a lot more active than it does in two-channel stereo. So ifg you do want it to kick on during music, it will, even with the speakers set to LARGE. But I don't seem to use that much. And I can always just go turn the sub down or off in that case.

I think I'll just keep tweaking and experimenting for a few days. Sigh. What a trip this is.

[noah katz]

Idahoguy,

Maybe it's what you're now doing, but if you set the fronts to Large and Sub=yes, I think the sub will only get LFE effects stuff and not do much if anything for music.

[ss9001]

6FU,
Why?

[pittdog1]

Why as well here? The problem with having the sub output to low from the receiver is auto sensing on the sub not responding to the low output from the receiver. I currently have mine at -6 on the sub output level but i'm going to set it closer to 0db as my sub doesn't always turn on at -6 without having to crank up the volume on the receiver just to get the sub to come on. The results should be the same by finding a happy medium between the receivers sub output and the subs volume knob to achieve the same level i currently have. If not, then why?

By the way if you do some reading about the 1014tx you'll see that -10 from the receiver is common and most peoples subs here won't auto detect with that setting. So it's not as much an issue of having the subs gain turned up to much as it is just getting it to come on and then adjusting the level of the sub.

[darqice]

with the 1014tx (or any receiver) can anyone comment on the decision between the following three options:

1) fronts, large; sub, yes
2) fronts, large; sub plus
3) fronts, small; sub yes

what is generally recommended, and what should be considered when deciding between the above options. (me: primus 250 /c25/ 150 surrounds, dayton 10" sub. 80% HT / TV, 20% music (classical))

thanks!

[pittdog1]

I run #2 in your setups listed. Most here recommend #3.

[Franchot]

I ran set-up #3 for a couple of weeks after I first got the receiver, and then I recently recalibrated everything and started using set-up #2 to see if I could notice a difference. So far, I'm preferring set-up #2.

[M Code]

Keep in mind..
That the MAAC system can adjust subwoofer level but its EQ will not go down that low (< 80Hz) to help out balancing its LF peaks/resonances..

[Big Worms]

Originally posted by darqice
with the 1014tx (or any receiver) can anyone comment on the decision between the following three options:

1) fronts, large; sub, yes
2) fronts, large; sub plus
3) fronts, small; sub yes

what is generally recommended, and what should be considered when deciding between the above options. (me: primus 250 /c25/ 150 surrounds, dayton 10" sub. 80% HT / TV, 20% music (classical))

thanks!
What should be the setup for the 150's? Small or large? I have the same setup except for the sub, Infinity. I think I got the sub to where I want it, but I just got the 150's for the rears. Actually now that I think about what about the center? Right now center is "small" and rears are "large".

[pittdog1]

I would try it both ways on the 250's and see what sounds best to you. I would set the 150's as small and let the sub pick up the lows directed to them. I would also keep the center small.

[SIMJEDI]

2) fronts, large; sub plus

Does this setting mean that the subwoofer will receive all frequencies below the crossover point from all speakers and the LFE channel while still allowing the mains to reproduce full range signals and not be effected by the crossover?


peace

[pittdog1]

On page 44 of the manual for my 1014 it states"When PLUS setting is chosen, Bass frequencies that would normally come from the front right and left speakers are also routed to the subwoofer." So , the answer to your question is yes. And that is how it appears to do it in my system as i run Large fronts and Sub plus.

[lirong]

IM a bit confued about the difference between running the Sub normally and running it at PLUS. What is it doing differently in each case?

[lirong]

Originally posted by lirong
Can someone advise me then on this...

I have PSB T45s for my fronts and a C40 for my center channel. The specs are:

T45:
+/- 3dB 35-23,000Hz
LF Cutoff - 30Hz

C40:
+/- 3dB 50-23,000Hz
LF Cutoff 45Hz

To this I have just added an HSU STF-2 sub.

First of all, to make sure I understand, which of these specs are the ones that should drive my decision on how to make use of the subwoofer? Does this mean my towers reproduce bass down to 35Hz or 30 (whats the difference between the +/- 3dB number and the LF Cutoff)?

With this type of setup (my rear speakers are small paradigm micros) should I leave my fronts set to LARGE or should I set them to SMALL since thats the THX standard? Similarly, should I set the crossover below 80 since I have towers, or should I set it to 80Hz since thats also the THX standard? And what about my Center - Large or Small?

By the way I will primarily use this for home theater and my guess is that I may not even use my subwoofer for music, only movies.


Can anyone weigh in on this one for me? Thanks.

[SIMJEDI]

Originally posted by lirong
IM a bit confued about the difference between running the Sub normally and running it at PLUS. What is it doing differently in each case?

From what I am able to gather is that when you set your speakers to Small with a crossover @80hz and your sub to Yes that all frequencies below 80hz will be sent to the sub and cut from all others. If you set your front speakers to Large with a sub+plus setting the frequencies below 80hz will still be sent to the sub from the speakers set to Large while also allowing them to play the frequencies below the crossover point.
So if there is a 40hz tone sent to the FR speaker the sub and the speaker will both play it instead of just the sub.

Hope I got it right and you can understand.;)


peace

[Idahoguy]

Originally posted by noah katz
Idahoguy,

Maybe it's what you're now doing, but if you set the fronts to Large and Sub=yes, I think the sub will only get LFE effects stuff and not do much if anything for music.

That's true in two-channel stereo mode, but in surround music modes, the sub will still be pretty active.

[Idahoguy]

By the way, I took a sound meter and measured each channel level after MCACC had set itself up. The subwoofer level is about 10 dB less than the other channels. It was around 71 while the other channels were from 81 to 84. It makes me wonder how accurate this whole MCACC thing is when it comes to setting up surround. I have no doubt that the EQing is a big benefit, but the channel levels .... I dunno. Sound level meters don't lie.

[Idahoguy]

Originally posted by 6FU
Why on Earth are you folks trying to get MCACC to set a sub level of 0dB? It makes ne sense at all. The only caveat is if it's set at -10 by MCACC then the setup routine is unable to get a proper balance as you have your sub output ON the sub too high so cut it back a bit. You are always better with a - dB setting from MCACC than 0 or a positive one.

I don't get it. Why would you "always be better"?

[pittdog1]

That makes 3 of us wondering now. By the way i adjusted mine to 0db and turned the sub's volume down a bit to get the same level i was getting at
-6 db with the sub's volume turned up a bit. Sub turns on much easier now and i can't see what harm or loss of sound quality i may have incurred by doing this.

[Idahoguy]

Originally posted by pittdog1
That makes 3 of us wondering now. By the way i adjusted mine to 0db and turned the sub's volume down a bit to get the same level i was getting at
-6 db with the sub's volume turned up a bit. Sub turns on much easier now and i can't see what harm or loss of sound quality i may have incurred by doing this.

The question I have is that once you guys have gotten your subs set at 0 dB through MCACC, are you just leaving them there? In other words, are you not turning the gain up on the sub itself afterward? Because my sub doesn't seem very loud after MCACC has calibrated everything.

[ss9001]

I pretty much leave the volume alone, once MCACC has it set. Also, I still can't see the logic of setting the volume so MCACC sets it at a - value as suggested by one poster. Makes absolutely no sense to me. To my thinking, you want to set the volume so MCACC is either 0, or close to it. That way the receiver isn't compensating for what you can adjust on the sub. All MCACC is doing is setting the level of output. If one sets the volume on the sub so high that it is above "reference" output, the receiver justs lowers it, so what's the point. I like the idea of getting close to 0dB on the calibrated output, so I can make small adjustments in either direction to taste, if I wanted, but haven't really felt the need.

FWIW

ss9001

[Idahoguy]

Originally posted by ss9001
I pretty much leave the volume alone, once MCACC has it set. Also, I still can't see the logic of setting the volume so MCACC sets it at a - value as suggested by one poster. Makes absolutely no sense to me. To my thinking, you want to set the volume so MCACC is either 0, or close to it. That way the receiver isn't compensating for what you can adjust on the sub. All MCACC is doing is setting the level of output. If one sets the volume on the sub so high that it is above "reference" output, the receiver justs lowers it, so what's the point. I like the idea of getting close to 0dB on the calibrated output, so I can make small adjustments in either direction to taste, if I wanted, but haven't really felt the need.

FWIW

ss9001

I agree that people are making too big of a deal out of the 0 factor. As long as the MCACC has the sub set between 0 and -9, you're going to be fine, assuming that the sub will turn on automatically when it needs to.

I'm still perplexed, though, as to why my sound level meter readings show that MCACC sets up the sub to be softer than the rest of the speakers. Like I said, I got a 10dB difference when measuring. Granted, it sounds great during music (because I basically don't notice the sub), but in order to get rumble during movies, I need to crank up the sub manually. It's possible that in my eagerness to enjoy my new sub, I'm expecting more rumble than most movies are supposed to actually provide. Who knows.

I sure wish some expert could come on here and answer all these questions, though. All I see are a bunch of guys with different opinions and a good deal of confusion.

[Mattsushiba]

Hi guys, I just got my 56TXi over the weekend and spent most of it trying to get this thing setup and sounding good.

First things I noticed are that it really lays off the top end. After AutEQ my room was so bass heavy and flat that I thought I was going to take it back to my dealer and re-order a HK635.

So after EQ'ing manually i have gotten it to sound much better. I have also compared "by ear" with a freq. sweep the original EQ and my custom EQ and found that they are both problematic in roughly the same areas. This should be taken lightly as we all know.

So I was wondering what everyone thought of their EQ results and can offer any tips to get more out of this receiver.

Regarding the Sub level issue. i would think you want it as close to 0 as possible so that you have a refeerence point to start at, as well you have more room up and down for adjustment. (example, I am using large fronts, sub plus and have it +3 for DVD, -6 for CD's)

[StuartV]

Originally posted by Idahoguy
That's true in two-channel stereo mode, but in surround music modes, the sub will still be pretty active.

This is incorrect (for the Pio 1014). If you have the fronts set to Large and the Sub to Yes, even the 7-ch Stereo mode will not send a signal to the sub. This is spelled out quite clearly in the owner's manual. With this speaker setup, the sub only gets a signal from the .1 portion of a digital input signal.

If you have the Fronts set to Small OR the sub set to Plus, then the sub also gets everything below the crossover frequency, in all modes.

[StuartV]

Originally posted by Idahoguy
Sound level meters don't lie.

From other posters on this BBS, I would say that this statement is not true. Others have reported, specifically, that the Radio Shack SPL meter is not accurate below something like 70 - 100 Hz.

Just FYI.

I only know what I've read elsewhere here, so if you want more info, you're going to have to search for it or post a question about it.

[StuartV]

Originally posted by Idahoguy
The question I have is that once you guys have gotten your subs set at 0 dB through MCACC, are you just leaving them there? In other words, are you not turning the gain up on the sub itself afterward? Because my sub doesn't seem very loud after MCACC has calibrated everything.

I have left mine where it was. I did change the Sub setting to Plus, so that I get some sub action when I'm listening to music.

I wasn't really getting a satisfactory amount of bass, either, until I discovered THX mode. When I'm watching a movie in Dolby Digital mode, I can hear the sub rumble and, on serious explosions and stuff, I can feel it. But when I put it in THX Cinema mode, I can feel the pod racers going by, etc..

With it set where it is (MCACC set level at 0), its effects during music seem just right. I don't "notice" it, but I can hear the *really* low bass notes that my floor speakers don't reproduce very well.

[StuartV]

Originally posted by 6FU
Why on Earth are you folks trying to get MCACC to set a sub level of 0dB? It makes ne sense at all.

You can read the long version of my explanation in an earlier post, if you want. The short version is that if the receiver is boosting (or cutting) the bass for you, to compensate for the sub's volume setting, it is applying a curve to the signal.

The receiver can't just, for example, add 5 dB to everything below 80 Hz. If it does, that boost also affects the signal above 80 Hz, also. Even if it doesn't affect the the signal going to the other speakers, it still is boosting the above-80 signal that is going to the sub.

If the receiver had infinite crossover slopes, i.e. instead of, say, 12 dB per octave slope, it was >1,000,000,000 dB per octave, then what you're saying would work. In other words, you could get the same result whether you had +0 on the receiver and sub volume set at +5 versus +5 on the receiver and +0 on the sub. But that isn't the case.

Thus, in the real world, +0 on the receiver, with the volume on the sub set appropriately, should give a truer, flatter response curve than if you allow the receiver to apply any boost or cut to the signal and attempt to compensate in the other direction with the sub's volume knob.

[pittdog1]

Originally posted by 6FU
Completely wrong. Read a bit on BASIC SETUP.

:confused:
It drives me crazy here when people know something or think they know something but won't elude to there answer. There is another member here who has a long history of this same type of crap(he will remain nameless). I've read the manual front and back since you posted this and there are only a couple of vague references about channel level settings for subwoofer. And no where does it say anything about trying to stay in the negative domain. On page 46 of the manual it states as follows:"The subwoofer test tone is output at low volumes. You may need to adjust the level after testing with an actual soundtrack". end quote. GEE, kinda sounds like they are leaning towards turning up the output level doesn't it.
Look, i always try to post truthful material on this forum that to my knowledge at least is truthful. I always try to back it up where i can with a reference. This isn't a place to play games, if you know something the rest of us don't, or something i missed in the manual, please direct us to it otherwise, don't and we will realize you were full of it. And if you do prove your statement, i will be the first to apologize and thank you. Like i posted earlier in this thread, i did exactly what the manual stated to do. I ran MCACC, then ran the manual channel level test tones and adjusted the sub up a bit. It's at 0db now and sounds no different then -6db after changing the position of the subs volume knob to match sound levels except now my sub has no problem coming on when it's suppose to.:cool:

[CenterForAnts]

Is it perfectly OK/normal to have the mic pointed straight up towards the ceiling? (it's not at an angle, ie.45 like some have recommended), as I left it on top of my tripod while I lied down on the carpet pressing the remote.

I need to go out and rent 'Tthe Forgotten' and listen to the car crash scene :o

[Idahoguy]

Originally posted by StuartV
This is incorrect (for the Pio 1014). If you have the fronts set to Large and the Sub to Yes, even the 7-ch Stereo mode will not send a signal to the sub. This is spelled out quite clearly in the owner's manual. With this speaker setup, the sub only gets a signal from the .1 portion of a digital input signal.


Sorry, but you are the one who's incorrect in this case, Stu. I'm switching modes on my Pio 1014 as I type this. The sub is off (red light) during STEREO mode, but is activated INSTANTLY (to green light and obvious subwoofer pounding) when I change from STEREO to 7-CHANNEL SURROUND mode. Same thing happens in the other surround modes, as long as there's plenty of bass and volume from the CD that I'm playing. And yes, my front speakers are set to LARGE and sub to YES. I suggest you try it. I even walked up and felt the subwoofer in both cases.

Please list the page number in the Pio manual where it allegedly spells out clearly that this is not supposed to happen. There's nothing on page 44, where it talks about the settings. Thanks. One caveat: I am only running a 5.1 setup not 7.1 -- but I don't see how that could change the subwoofer's reaction to the receiver's output.

[Idahoguy]

Originally posted by 6FU
Completely wrong. Read a bit on BASIC SETUP.

Dude, that answer is weak. Back it up, please, preferably with some explanation and references to your fact sources. Gracias.

[Idahoguy]

And the Laurel and Hardy comment is remarkably lame coming from someone who has offered zero constructive comments to the thread.

[pittdog1]

6FU, what gives? Show me something tangible or disappear. You have offered nothing here whatsoever. Show something to back up your claim. Geez, i think you are the afforementioned in my earlier posts twin brother. Look at my pics in the gallery. It's not a blockbuster HT, but it is not exactly a 500 dollar set-up either. I've set-up alot of theaters for other people some more expensive than mine and others not so. I know this doesn't mean anything per say as i could be doing a bad job for all of them for all you know. But, i have been doing this hobby for around 20 years and know my way around quite a bit. Not as much as many others on this forum, but i am fairly knowledeable. What you are saying(or not saying and probably just as well) just doesn't make any sense. It would probably be wise just to discontinue posting on this thread to stop from further disabling any credibility you think you might have. It would be nice if one of the audio gurus here would step in and take a stance on this issue one way or the other. By the way 6FU, i asked you to prove, document or just plain state where your info comes from. If you post again here please enlighten us.

[pittdog1]

Oh, now i get it. Add 1 more to your name. Ridiculous, waist of time and server space. Considering you've been here all of 3 months and obviously don't know what you are talking about, i'm sure you have quite a following.
Good Grief!

[pittdog1]

Any one can type anything they want here, correct? You have every right tp type the nonsense that you have and i was willing to listen to what you had to say in the beginning thinking maybe i was missing something that you had knowledge of. When asked to reveal this supposed knowledge, your answer was what again? Exactly! If you can't prove the point of your original post, then what good was it in the first place? This Forum is to help others and share knowledge with each other to better our AV systems. What is your purpose here? To claim you know something but not reveal it?
Also you are correct about how it does not matter how long you've been a member here, but lack of knowledge is usually a give away. Peace brother, unless you have something constructive to offer about your original comment on this thread , the only rise or response you will get from me is all ready on these pages. You have a grand opportunity to make me look the fool here by proving your statement earlier. I am a man and will stand by my previous statement and appologize for all previous statements and thank you for your knowledge. But we both know i won't have to do that will i.

[Idahoguy]

Originally posted by 6FU
You guys are fighting and giving wrong advice on the most BASIC of setup routines. It's quite hilarious.

Nobody's fighting here. Two or three of us are having a discussion.
If it's so BASIC, why don't you ever explain anything that you blather? Oh wait, I know: Because you're clueless. I sure don't see any of your supposed "fellow audio gurus" jumping in to back you up here.
Next!

[Idahoguy]

I've been messing around with MCACC tonight and keeping track of settings. Here are some of my discoveries (and if anyone thinks that something I've said is wrong, feel free to point it out with your own data):

1) Changing the crossover before you run Auto MCACC has no impact on how it sets up its EQ. Those settings remained the same, whether I set it on 80 or 50 before running the Auto MCACC. By the way, Auto MCACC will NOT set your crossover for you. It initially defaults at 80. If you change it, it won't alter that setting when you run Auto MCACC. What it WILL change at its whim is your speaker size setting. So if you want your speakers left at the size you have chosen, run the Auto EQ under Manual MCACC separately from the Auto MCACC. Of course, as you will see in my next statement, I don't really understand why you'd ever want to bother to do that. Maybe someone can enlighten me.
2) Changing the front speaker size from LARGE to SMALL or vice versa had no effect on how Auto EQ set itself up. All EQ bands remained the same, no matter if I ran the EQ with LARGE, SMALL or whatever. (And when I say the "same," I mean within a half decibel. That's the typical fluctuation with MCACC, I've noticed, when run repeatedly.) Changing the front speaker size to SMALL just lops off the 40 Hz setting of the EQ frequency range (you get a blank setting next to 40 Hz when the speaker is set to SMALL. Turn it back to LARGE and it suddenly give you a setting again). For this reason, I don't see any advantage to having an Auto EQ in Manual MCACC separate from Auto MCACC, which includes its own Auto EQ during its functions.
3) Many of my initial frustrations came from running my new sub with the volume set WAY too high at the sub itself. I'd run Auto MCACC, then go crank the sub up to halfway volume, anway. After finally setting the sub at 0 dB on Auto MCACC, which was about 9:30 on the sub volume knob, I then nudged it up 3 dB using the receiver's Manual MCACC. I'm happy with that setting, though I may wind up lowering it slightly for music reasons. By the way, as of right now, I'm running all speakers SMALL with a crossover of 80. That could change in a week. But I don't think I'll change the crossover. Probably just the front speaker size to LARGE, if I do anything.
4) Bottom line: I was seeking sub rumble overkill. Seriously, I was rattling dishes in a separate room yesterday during an action movie (and this is using an Acoustic Visions MRS-10 in a 2,000 cubic-foot theater!!!). Although I was proud of my new sub, this was way too boomy of a setting. Now that it's bumped down, the lows are more natural. You can still feel them, but it doesn't create rattling noises on shelves, from the front door, etc. Sure, that's fun from a macho standpoint, but it's actually kind of stupid. I spend all this time tweaking my system's sound to be perfect, then I actually enjoy hearing outside environmental noise from rattling pots and pans? I don't think so.

Bottom line: Just keep tweaking! That's what makes this Pio 1014 so much fun. You don't just set it and walk away. You continue playing with it!

[ss9001]

Been catching up on this thread...

6FU = Troll?

ss9001

[Mattsushiba]

I noticed after running the autoeq, that the front speakers were boosted +5.5 in the 63Hz band. Is this MCACC trying to compensate for this node at the seating position? I dialed it back down to 0 after my suspicion and it had very little effect on that freq. but bringing that band down made the speaker sound clearer.

I'm not convinced that MCACC does a very good job. The graph shows very flat lines for most of the EQ bands but to my ears it sounds very muddy and bass heavy.
Can this be that my ears don't prefer a "flat" sound? I don't think that this is the case though because I have heard better systems in better rooms that sound more "live" than this.

Right now i've got it setup using the custom settings based on the autoeq as suggested in the manual. I'm still getting it dialed in but it sounds way better than before.

What is the best way to use the EQ? How do I compensate for peaks that are not in the same freq. as the EQ band? I'm just wondering if I can use sine waves to fix some of the peaks?

Can anybody help please?!!

[Mattsushiba]

O.K. I moved my couch up about a foot and it made the biggest difference! I must've been sitting right in the bottomless 63Hz hole!

I ran MCACC again and it is now much smoother and clear. No muddiness at all. It's starting to sound really good. I also tried all the different BM options and to my surprise found the most dynamic and realistic sounding was all set to small, crossed over at 50Hz.
I know, I know. You shouldn't ahve your speakers crossed over so low because you can let the sub do that and it puts less strain on your amp, but i'm telling ya it sounds more real like that.

Anyway, I just wanted say I got it worked out and i'm starting to feel better about it. Whew...

[krabapple]

Could be that you didn't have the microphone positioned analogously to where your
head is when you listen. That would explain the discrepancy. You were probably sitting in a bass 'hump', not a 'hole', since things sounded *more* bassy to you in that position.

And just to be clear, EQ at the 63Hz band is only adjusted when speakers are set to LARGE or when they are crossed over at <80, as you have done by using 50. And it's only adjusted for the speakers, not the subwoofer.

It may be that you need to reposition your sub, if the only way to get non-muddy bass is to cross your (small?) speakers over at 50 .

[krabapple]

btw, I had some MCACC questions over on another thread a few days ago -- I'd be grateful for feedback

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5094952#post5094952

[Mattsushiba]

No, what was happening was I was sitting in the hole. That's why the MCACC was compensating by increasing this band by +5.5. I couldn't hear it clearly, but could tell that it was muddying up the overall balance of the sound coming from the front.
Now that I moved the couch up a foot it's no longer in the hole with MCACC trying to fill it in. And the response there is fairly smooth.
I'm now using the All Channel Adjust EQ with no changes and it sounds very balanced.
I watched Collateral last night and it sounded great. This receiver handles the pans and surround effects so well. I'm really happy.

[krabapple]

If the crossover and other setup choices are the same, but the MCACC no longer boosts the 63 Hz band, then you're right, it was a hole. Easy to verify with an spl meter and some spot frequencies or bass sweeps, comparing both positions..

[robert dawson]

I got my 1014 Mon 1/31 and love it compared to my HK DPR1001. I have a question when I ran the mcacc it gave me the setting in all the bands 40 hz, 125 hz, 250 hz, 4khz, and 14 khz the very last thing on the setup was trim......some of the speakers were 0 db, some 0.5 db and others 3+dbs. On the trim setting I set it to 0db for all the speaker settings......Did I trim this wrong? If so I guess I need to redo the mcacc again. What should I do? A little confused please help a semi newbie.

[Mattsushiba]

From what I understand, the trim is like the cahnnel volume and is calibrated to match the other speakers in your system? I hope that's right. I'm still new to this machine.

I've got another question regarding the Professional EQ.

Does autoeq calculate and EQ the reverb like in the professional menu? I'm wondering if I have to do this as well or if it's been done already. THen on to tweaking this setting. When I change the time of the reading does it change the readings for all channels and EQbands? What settings is everybody using? What kind of changes have you noticed using the 20-30ms time?

[mjosef]

Robert, rerun MCACC. Then you may adjust the front speaker size to SMALL if your speakers don't go below 50Hz. Leave the MCACC levels alone unless you think it doesn't sound right. Remember run MCACC with the least amout of background noise and with your body out of the way between any of your speakers and the mic. Oh, and you may want to boost the sub up a tad, .5dB to 1.5dB. depending on your preference. Good luck.

[robert dawson]

Thamks mjosef : I will rerun the MCACC again tonight after work. The first time I set it late after midnight and I woke everyone up. The test sound is loud....So trim means I don't do anything just go with it settings.......Let me show you the readings I first got....After running the MCACC it set all speakers to Large and Sub yes....When I change the speakers to Small I get a little different settings in the MCACC.

Distance L 12 feet L ( speaker set to Large) L ( set small)
C 12.5 ..... 40 hz -6 ....... 40hz ----
R 13 ...... 125 hz -2 ....... 125hz -2
SR 8.5 ..... 250 hz -1.5 ........ 250hz -1.5
SBR 9 ..... 4khz -1.5 ....... 4khz - 1.5
SBL 6 ...... 13khz -4.5 ...... 13khz -4.5
SL 5.5 ..... Trim +.5 ...... trim 0
Sub 15.5 ......

I could list all the settings but will only if someone would like to see.....


So trim means I don't reset anything or is it a reference point for the custom 1,2 settings? I'm a little confused what to do or what it means. All my speakers are towers HK 10 L,C,R Hk 6 SBR,SBL, Infinity Ultra towers for RS, LS towers. What to do ? After rerunning the MCACC


My mistake they are the same small or large ....I was looking at the 40hz difference.

[Idahoguy]

Originally posted by mjosef
Robert, rerun MCACC. Then you may adjust the front speaker size to SMALL if your speakers don't go below 50Hz. Leave the MCACC levels alone unless you think it doesn't sound right. Remember run MCACC with the least amout of background noise and with your body out of the way between any of your speakers and the mic. Oh, and you may want to boost the sub up a tad, .5dB to 1.5dB. depending on your preference. Good luck.

After experimenting for a while, I have set my sub up so it's at -2.0 after MCACC has run. That way, the sub has no problem kicking on when it should, yet it gives you a couple more dBs of flexibility to crank the sub to a super loud level using the receiver. I run my sub up about 5 dB higher than MCACC sets it, particularly when I watch action movies. Heck, sometimes when I want to shake the house for jollies, I turn it all the way to +10, which is 12 dBs higher than MCACC's default. When I listen to music, I just turn it back down to the -2.0 default setting that MCACC set up. Sounds perfect. Other times, I want to hear nothing but my B&W fronts in all their glory, so I switch the sub off. Honestly, you just have to tweak your sub how you want it. That's what I've found after messing with MCACC about 100 times. It is a shame, however, that this receiver can't remember different sub level settings for different sources.

[robert dawson]

Thanks Idahoguy : I will try that when I get home today. I have read the manuel over and over. Still learning alot about this great reciever 1014. The Sub up to -2.0 maybe to high but I will experiment. I know the MCACC is more exrate than the HK ezset , it gives a well balanced sound and better listening on the sacd cds that I have tried....Pink Floyds Darkside of the Moon....Money etc. My HK is in the shop to be fixed the third time . They replaced it after two fixes and now the replacement. Only had it 8 months..( it is going to ebay after the repair),but Pioneer 1014 has a lot more to offer with a sweet sound to boot !! I'll report back after the tweeks.....Have a great SuperBowl weekend.:D

[Idahoguy]

Originally posted by robert dawson
The Sub up to -2.0 maybe to high but I will experiment.

Curious: Too high for what? For your sub to kick on automatically? All I'm saying is that after running MCACC, I am NEVER going to want to turn the sub down further. To my ears, MCACC sets the sub at a surprisingly modest level. So when it comes to day-to-day adjusting for music and movies, I'm either going to turn the sub completely off (sometimes for CDs), or I'm going to turn it up, which is always best to do at the receiver level. Setting it at -2.0 when you do your initial MCACC gives you 12 dBs of upward sub volume to play with. Heck, I considered setting it at -9.0 initially so that I'd have 19 dBs of ear punishment to enjoy, but I figured that my sub wouldn't kick on reliably. So I settled at -2.0.

Enjoy!

[krabapple]

My understanding (a guess really) is that *trim* is a secondary channel level adjustment the receiver makes during Acoustic EQ, to the initial channel level settings made earlier by the MCACC process. If you look at the order of Auto Setup operations, the receivers sets speaker sizes and levels and distances first, then runs Acoustic EQ.

[robert dawson]

Type error I meant +10 was to high....Opps. I don't like a lot of bass in cd also but like you said I want a kick punch for movies with a lot of action. My sub light is on at the present with the settings at small all speakers. I will try large fronts L & R this weekend to see if I like it. For now I like everything set small and sub=yes. I may like large L&R with sub=plus. I will see. Thanks for your support and input. Have a good One Enjoy!

[millerwill]

Just got my 1014 in the mail late yesterday (for J&R) and have been playing with it all day--like a kid on Christmas morn! I ran MCACC about 4 times until the sub came out at +0.5, close enough to 0 I think. And it does sound amazingly good. Contrary to what many have reported in this thread, my MCACC came out with very strong sub output. I checked all the speaker levels with the Radio Shack spl meter, and they read IDENTICAL values (77 +/- 1). My L/R fronts (Infinity Primus 160's) did come out set to LARGE, as many have reported, and I set them back to SMALL. (Couldn't really tell much difference.) But on playing the 1st canonade in 'Master and Commander', it was AWESOME!

[mjosef]

Robert, the trim level setting are basically a way to balance the outputs of the various speakers relative to your sitting position, so all the speakers output will be at a uniform level to your ear. And since you have tower speakers all around, you can further experiment with other settings, like all speakers small but try the crossover at 50Hz, or have the fronts as Large and the rest small, with the sub at YES or PLUS...
First time I ran MCACC on my 1014 I got -8dB on my sub, I have a 600W amp on a passive sub so that reading is understandable, I wanted a little more bass so I boosted my sub 1.dB to -7dB. However when I reran MCACC a couple weeks later (late at night) I got a MCACC sub reading of -7dB which was right where I thought the balance for my sub should be.
As for the EQ portion of the MCACC, it tries to flatten the response of your speakers in your room, some people don't like the 'flat' sound, or at least they are not accustomed to a flat response. Here your personal preferences will have reign. And you can always retain the 'tone' of your front speakers by EQ the rest of the speakers to match the front. And keep those notes, serves as good reference point when you want to experiment with manual adjustments. Don't forget to stop and enjoy a movie or two, don't get lost in the gear glee.

[robert dawson]

I reran the MCACC setting my fronts to large and sub=plus. It changed the sub distant from 15.5 to 16 feet and changed all speakers to large with the center to small using the sub=plus. So I changed the surounds to small using only the fronts Large and sub=plus. It was ok but I think I might switch back to all small. The sub reading was +1.5 so I changed it on the _reciever_ to read -2 . ( using the select ch/ + or - on the remote) I saved my settings in the custom1 and left custom2 blank for now.

I did notice while using the reciever mode DD EX when I changed channels on my sat tv that on a DD feed from the sat that the reciever would say Dial in -2 then change to DD EX . Is this normal ? I usually listen in the DPllx most of the time.

[lirong]

Why did you lower your sub from +1.5 to -2?

I ran my MCACC and got a sub reading of +2dB. IS that not optimal for some reason?

I believe it has to do with the volume level you set your sub at before running the MCACC but I dont know whether I need to try and adjust this or not...

[robert dawson]

At the time I reran the MCACC I could not get to the back of the Sub. I like the volume level that I have on the Sub and so I tried to lower it on the reciever. Is this ok or not? I have the Sony Sub SA WA-700 (250 watt) and the light is working ok. I when in the set up menu and now use all speakers to small and the Sub=yes. Everything seem to sound better and I use the THX mode as of the last two days. I noticed that the cd and tv modes sounded much better this way. I keep changing the DSP about everyother day but so far I seem to like the THX mode for now anyway.

Enjoy it is the best reciever for the bucks IMAO.

ps I may set the Fronts to Large and all the other speakers to small with the Sub=plus in the custom 2 and switch out everynow and then.

[millerwill]

Originally posted by lirong
I ran my MCACC and got a sub reading of +2dB. IS that not optimal for some reason?

I believe it has to do with the volume level you set your sub at before running the MCACC but I dont know whether I need to try and adjust this or not...

From what other persons have said, it might be that you should turn up the volume on your sub a bit, and then re-run MCACC, in order to try to get the sub setting on the 1014 nearer to 0.

[nimda]

My receiver is upstairs in a closet and I would need an extension to use the MCACC could I just pick up a regular phono extension cable with a male and female end on it at Radio Shack? Would that work?

Thanks

[lirong]

Why cant I adjust manually the channel level setting on the receiver down to 0 instead of running MCACC again?

[millerwill]

You can do that, i.e., turn up the volume on the sub and turn it down on the AVR. But to get it 'just right', you would need to run MCACC again. No big deal either way.

[mboy]

Ran MCACC on my new 1014 last night and it set ALL my speakers to large.
JBL E80 mians, ec35 center, e10 surrounds, n24 rear surrounds and dinky 8" HK sub. Going to play around with it MUCH more over the weekend.

[millerwill]

Originally posted by mboy
Ran MCACC on my new 1014 last night and it set ALL my speakers to large.
JBL E80 mians, ec35 center, e10 surrounds, n24 rear surrounds and dinky 8" HK sub. Going to play around with it MUCH more over the weekend.

How can it set the sub to 'large'? I don't remember that being an option (it sets it to 'off', 'on', or 'plus'.)

Anyway, MCACC is great, and a great deal of fun. It set the distances and volume levels to all my speakers perfectly. (And the sub came out with plenty of punch!) It did set my two fronts (Infinity Primus 160's) to 'large', which I changed to 'small'. I re-ran just the EQ part of the MCACC again, but there seemed to be no change. I agree with so many of you, that this really is a nice unit for a nice price!

[mboy]

No, I did not mean to insuate that it changed my sub to large (impossible), it changed my other 7 speakers to large.

[Jellyman]

Good thread.
I just bought a 1014 and will begin setup tomorrow. Couple questions for the group.

1. I'm currently running two subs. Any thoughts on + or - effective this will have on MCACC?

2. I have two rows of seats in my theater. Where should I place the mic during setup?

3. Someone asked earlier and I never saw a response. How do you setup the mic IE: angled, facing towards ceiling, etc.?

[pittdog1]

Originally posted by Jellyman
Good thread.
I just bought a 1014 and will begin setup tomorrow. Couple questions for the group.

1. I'm currently running two subs. Any thoughts on + or - effective this will have on MCACC?

2. I have two rows of seats in my theater. Where should I place the mic during setup?

3. Someone asked earlier and I never saw a response. How do you setup the mic IE: angled, facing towards ceiling, etc.?

#1 I would probably set the volume very low on both subs and see what it sets it at. It seems to set things up great as far as equalization, distance and such but it tends to set all speakers to large. It also seems to set alot of subwoofers to -10 which is to low and gives the auto-detect feature a fit to turn the subs on. After MCACC runs its course, go back in and change the speaker sizes to the appropriate size. You'll probably have to play with the sub level on the reciever as well as the volume controls on the subs to get the right level yourself. I had to do this with just one sub and so have many others. It does a great job with the other 5 or 7 speakers other than picking the wrong size quite often.

#2 I would place the mic Right smack in the middle of your seating(rows) at the average ear height between the 2 rows. If row 1 is 12"s lower than row 2 then place the mic at 6"s above the low row right between the rows in the middle.

#3 I think it is best placed facing straight up(towards the ceiling) on a tripod. Worked well for me.

Let us know how it goes and what it set things at.:)

[Franchot]

A lot of people say that MCACC "seems" to pick the wrong speaker size--it usually chooses large. Well, in my experience it chose large for all my speakers which I'm beginning to realize is probably the correct setting.

I have Monitor Audio Silvers--the large bookshelves--all around and MCACC chose them as being "large" because they can play pretty low, even though they are not tower speakers. I had a Polk center speaker as my REAR center speaker which MCACC set to "large." (I changed everything to "small" because that seemed right to me.)

Last week, I changed out the Polk rear center and went with two Omnistat speakers so I could move from a 6.1 to a 7.1 soundfield. I reran MCACC and it selected the Omnistats as "small." (And these speakers are pretty good sized (they're not mini-speakers) and they play pretty low.) So, now I went back and changed all my Monitors to "large" and left the rears as "small" and things are sounding better to my ears. (And I changed my sub to "Plus.")

As far as the subwoofer goes, I agee with most of the people here. MCACC sets it too low. I like a "feelable" bass on everything from movies to music so I had to tweak my sub up and up until I got to the rumble that satisfied me.

[Jellyman]

Thanks Pittdog1

I can't wait to break this thing out and start the setup.

FYI: I saw the 1014 in Best Buys add today for $100.00 off their normal price of $499.00