Scaling players and Plasma

[die_lol]

Ok Ive read a lot of discussion about scaling dvd players but I'm curious as to what the advantage is for a plasma set.

If I have a 50" Plasma set with a native rez of 1368x768 or a 42" plasma with native rez 1024x768 can I get 1:1 pixel mapping with any of the current scaling dvd players on the market?
As far as I know the current players can only upscale to 720p or 1080i neither of which matches the native rez of most plasma sets. So is there any advantage in hooking up a scaling player to a plasma set rather than just getting a normal player to output 480p? That way the picture is only scaled once which I assume will give a better PQ.

[Clepto]

There are several upscaling players that can output at various settings to 1:1 pixel map on that plasma. Search the forum and you'll find more indepth answers as to which players can. Momitsu for example has custom resolutions that can be set.

[CarlG]

I run a Zenith 318 with my ED Panasonic plasma, and the results are excellent. You simply set that player to 1080i, and even though my set limits the overall result to ED resolution, the picture is noticeably more detailed looking than a pic from just a 480 player.

[PooperScooper]

The only reason you need a "up-scaling" DVD player for your plasma is if the scaler in the DVD player is better than you plasma's. Something has to scale it, let the better device do it. In most cases, feeding the plasma native rate using the Bravo or Momitsu (others?) and their custom resolution settings is the way to go - or use a good external scaler.

larry

[Ross in Toronto]

I've mentioned this in other threads, but I have a 768 line plasma (Pioneer 1110HD) and an upscaling player (Pioneer 59Avi) connected via HDMI. I have found through many "eyeball tests" that 1080i upscaled output from the player followed by downscale to 768 lines in my display gives the best visual results. 720p from the player is a very close second.

This doesn't make sense, as you'd expect matching the native display res as close as possible to provide the best result. I speculate, however, that because my display is an HD model, it has been optimized to make 1080i (the most common HD format) to look as good as possible. In other words, whatever scaler Pioneer uses in their 1110HD is optimized for the 1080i input format.

Regardless of whatever equipment you have (or plan on buying), nothing beats taking the time to do a proper eyeball test!

Ross

[die_lol]

So the general idea is that connecting an upscaling player to a plasma will give you significant benefits in PQ compared to a regular prog scan player?
If it does I don't really understand why, since the picture will now be scaled twice, and I always thought you should scale the picture as few times as possible to get best PQ. The only explanation I can think of is that the scaling chips on the new players are a lot better than the stuff that comes on typical displays.

thanks for the help guys

[edsuski]

The confusion comes from the ability of the internal scaler to handle one resolution, or another, better than a third. In the previous case, it seems like the internal scaler was better able to scale from 1080i to 768p even though 720p would "seem" to be a closer match. The trick is to feed a fixed format device the resolution that it is best able to scale. In many cases that turns out to be the native format, presumably not involving the internal scaler.

Good luck.

Ed

[Skipm]

I agree with Ross in Toronto on this one. After many eyeball tests and comparisions, I get the best picture when my upscaling DVD player, a Samsung HD1000 is set to 1080i, connected via component to my Pioneer 433CMX which in turn scales it to 768p. I would have thought that setting the player to scale the picture at 720p would have been the hot setup. The same is true for my HD STB's as well. I get the best results when they upscale everything to 1080i. I am curious though about Samsung's new HD941 player that will be available soon. It will upscale to 768p which will match the Pio perfectly although since it only does it over HDMI, it won't do me much good.

-Skip

[texaspledge]

Originally posted by die_lol
So the general idea is that connecting an upscaling player to a plasma will give you significant benefits in PQ compared to a regular prog scan player?
If it does I don't really understand why, since the picture will now be scaled twice, and I always thought you should scale the picture as few times as possible to get best PQ. The only explanation I can think of is that the scaling chips on the new players are a lot better than the stuff that comes on typical displays.

thanks for the help guys

I would actually say the general message here is be careful and you probably won't know until you actually see it hooked up if your components are going to complement each other. I would say if you do it, get it from a place that accepts returns.

In my case I have a DVB318 hooked up to my Tosh TW40X81 with great results. I brought it over to my friends house to check it on a Fuji 42" HD plasma. It was very odd, I had noticed that DVD's at 480p looked very jaggy but his HD cable box at 1080i looked great (all through component). I just assumed that using the 318 would fix that problem.

Once I hooked it up though I saw the same jagginess I had seen with the 480p signal. I was very surprized and double checked a number of times to make sure it was outputting 1080i from the component cable. It was.

As much as people are having great success with upconversion on these payers I would be very careful about using them with a Plasma and expecting a great result.

[dokworm]

Perhaps it is usually best to get the DVD player to do the scaling, as it is reading the flags from the DVD and doing the job properly to get the image to 1080i, which the plasma set is optimised for.
Otherwise you would expect the 480i signal fed intothe plasma to look best of all as it only goes through one conversion, but anyone that has hooked up even a 480P player to a plasma set will tell you it looks a lot better than 480i and letting the plasma scaler do the work.

So yeah, try it on your own gear, but I think a momitsu will look better than a standard player on a plasma set in most cases if not all.

[gadgetfreaky]

I have a Panny 50phd7uy. I'm surprised with so many 7uy owners there isn't more talk on this. I got the 850 samsung upconverting over component. it looks pretty good. I'm considering the Oppo. I didn't realize the 941 from samsung will do 768p, but is that 1366x768?

[ZZtop]

So now that the Bravo is gone, for my Pioneer 503cmx, the Momitsu or perhaps a snazio or zensonic (if they allow custom resolution settings) is the way to go to get dot by dot mode?

[Clepto]

Well, the best way would be using an external scaler, like a VP-30 or Lumagen or some such. That way you could use your DVD Player purely as a Transport, get it SDI modded or try for one that outputs 480i over HDMI

[orogogus]

[QUOTE=gadgetfreaky]I have a Panny 50phd7uy. I'm surprised with so many 7uy owners there isn't more talk on this. I got the 850 samsung upconverting over component. it looks pretty good. I'm considering the Oppo. I didn't realize the 941 from samsung will do 768p, but is that 1366x768?[/QUOTE]

I have an *old* denon 2800 going to the same panel and I'm in the same boat here. I'm on the fence the cheap upscaler (prolly and oppo), and good dvd transport mechanism + scaler, or going the hobby oriented but flexible HTPC route. I think I'm leaning these days more towards the HTPC due to the resolution on the plasma and that my DVI input makes life simple for that (although not from a calibration standpoint). I think if I had a FP system I would get an outboard scaler...

[lmarkoff]

[QUOTE=ZZtop]So now that the Bravo is gone... [/QUOTE]

As a latecomer to this thread, please enlighten me; where did the Bravo go and when and why? I thought that the D2 was one of the most popular of its type on the market. Did the product go out of existence permanently or is there a D3 on the horizon?

[piero23]

I have the Panasonic 42PX50U mated to a Zenith DVB318 firmware flashed to upconvert over component. I have tried 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i. And I find the best picture quality is 1080i over component followed very closely to 1080i over DVI.

Everyone says that 720P over HDMI/DVI is the best but my eyes see different. I think its because the dvb318 can upscale better than my tv but my tv can deinterlaces better than the dvd.

[BillP]

No, it's because the Zenith does a much better job outputting 1080i than 720p (that has been widely reported about the Zenith).

[piero23]

[QUOTE=BillP]No, it's because the Zenith does a much better job outputting 1080i than 720p (that has been widely reported about the Zenith).[/QUOTE]

I guess my eyes are wrong than. :)

[ZZtop]

[QUOTE=lmarkoff]As a latecomer to this thread, please enlighten me; where did the Bravo go and when and why? I thought that the D2 was one of the most popular of its type on the market. Did the product go out of existence permanently or is there a D3 on the horizon?[/QUOTE]


I was referring to my first production D1 being broken by accident by a child who inserted a disc not meant for dvd players into it :( . By the time I discovered this 2 days later, it had burnt out the loader and who knows what else.

Its very unfortunate for me, this thing let you set custom resolutions AND upscaled. It made my plasma go into dot by dot mode.

I never thought one player would have lasted me so long as that Bravo D1 did, and I will still be using it if it was working. :rolleyes:

[BillP]

[QUOTE=piero23]I guess my eyes are wrong than. :)[/QUOTE]
No, I was agreeing with you. You claimed that you prefer 1080i over 720 output, and that is what I said was the general concensus with this player.

[BillP]

[QUOTE=lmarkoff]As a latecomer to this thread, please enlighten me; where did the Bravo go and when and why? I thought that the D2 was one of the most popular of its type on the market. Did the product go out of existence permanently or is there a D3 on the horizon?[/QUOTE]
Boy, is your info outdated. To Bravo's credit, they were one of the 1st manufacturers to market upscaling players, and initially their only competition were Samsung and Momitsu. Nowadays, there are many, many choices, and many, many better and more reliable players (Bravo really killed themselves with terrible reliability), so Bravo is not what's hot at all right now.

[piero23]

Well there are better players other than the DVB318 out there, but I really wanted one that could upconvert over component. Simplifying my cable runs and not having to change inputs on my tv was most important for me.

The DVB318 is the best player for the money for me, that is until we see which player wins the HDTV wars. I am rooting for HD DVD.

[BillP]

Samsungs also upscale over component (with remote hacks).