Denon 3805: Which Room EQ setting are you using?

[jbird04]

Just wanted to take a poll on what room EQ setting people are using. Thanks!

1. Normal
2. Flat
3. Front
4. Manual
5. Off

[rileychris]

I'm interested in this too. Bump.

[mcallister]

I'm the one vote for off. I've never tried to use the Room EQ setting on my 3805. Because how does the 3805 know how my room should be EQ'd?

Mike

[JBaumgart]

Originally posted by breedingamies
I'm the one vote for off. I've never tried to use the Room EQ setting on my 3805. Because how does the 3805 know how my room should be EQ'd?

Mike

Have you tried running the set up program with the (optional) microphone? When you do it "listens" and then adjusts for your room charactistics. Without running the auto set up, you are right, the 3805 wouldn't know anything about your room.

[jbird04]

I read through the audioholics review and noted how he thought it was more of a 'wall of sound' and quite a bit more fatiguing. Thoughts? Anyone in agreement/disagreement?? At this point it looks like most people have it on, but the exact setting is indistinct.

[Gretsch]

i have not used the EQ feature yet because i do not have the mic. where is the best place to pick a mic up?

also, are you pleased with the EQ vs. non-EQ settings?

i've always gathered that EQing should be an intense process and performed by a professional. perhaps this is as close/good as it gets w/o that option.

[mcallister]

Originally posted by JBaumgart
Have you tried running the set up program with the (optional) microphone? When you do it "listens" and then adjusts for your room charactistics. Without running the auto set up, you are right, the 3805 wouldn't know anything about your room.


So what your saying is that when I run auto setup with my denon mic. After wards if I pick say the "flat" eq setting it knows my rooms characteristics and will eq accordingly to make things flat? Or do you have to run the auto setup with flat turned on? I was under the impression that the auto setup only set speaker levels and distances.

Thanks for the help,

Mike

[JBaumgart]

Originally posted by breedingamies
So what your saying is that when I run auto setup with my denon mic. After wards if I pick say the "flat" eq setting it knows my rooms characteristics and will eq accordingly to make things flat? Or do you have to run the auto setup with flat turned on? I was under the impression that the auto setup only set speaker levels and distances.

Thanks for the help,

Mike

No if you run the program it also sets the Room EQ. It then gives you several frequency response curves (Normal, Front, Flat, Manual and Off) to pick from. You can also view the various settings for each speaker for each curve. And select which one sounds best to you in your room. What each curve is supposed to do is explained in the manual. Also check the Sound & Vision magazine review which offers their comments on the various settings, although bear in mind that everyone's room/speakers are different and therefore your impressions may vary.

In my case I have a rather odd room with various openings to other areas of the house and a rather large brick fireplace along one wall. After doing some listening tests for each I've settled in on Flat. My speakers would have a very flat response in a perfect room but my room is far from perfect so the adjustment makes a big difference. One thing I did agree with the S&V review on is that the Normal setting provides a rather unnatural sound. "Front" (which is supposed to make the surrounds blend in better with the main/front speakers) sounds good also, but in my case I seem to lose a little surround definition and volume, perhaps because they blend in too well. I haven't tried any manual setups because I am very happy with what the Auto EQ produced.

All in all this is a terrific feature and I think should be a standard feature included on all mid-to-higher priced equipment.

[Steve S]

Originally posted by JBaumgart
No if you run the program it also sets the Room EQ. It then gives you several frequency response curves (Normal, Front, Flat, Manual and Off) to pick from. You can also view the various settings for each speaker for each curve. And select which one sounds best to you in your room. What each curve is supposed to do is explained in the manual. Also check the Sound & Vision magazine review which offers their comments on the various settings, although bear in mind that everyone's room/speakers are different and therefore your impressions may vary.

In my case I have a rather odd room with various openings to other areas of the house and a rather large brick fireplace along one wall. After doing some listening tests for each I've settled in on Flat. My speakers would have a very flat response in a perfect room but my room is far from perfect so the adjustment makes a big difference. One thing I did agree with the S&V review on is that the Normal setting provides a rather unnatural sound. "Front" (which is supposed to make the surrounds blend in better with the main/front speakers) sounds good also, but in my case I seem to lose a little surround definition and volume, perhaps because they blend in too well. I haven't tried any manual setups because I am very happy with what the Auto EQ produced.

All in all this is a terrific feature and I think should be a standard feature included on all mid-to-higher priced equipment.

this was almost exactly my situation, though I have the 2805 the auto eq is the same on both models. My HT is arranged with the tv in one corner and couch opposite, large opening to dining area in back wall, and large brick fireplace on a side wall. The 2805 is the third receiver with auto setup I've tried, and I will not even consider another receiver that lacks this feature.

I also prefer the "Flat" eq over Normal, which is a little artificial sounding, and agree that Front hurts surround action.

The 2805 comes with the mic, the 3805 doesn't but it's well worth the $65.
I would consider a 3805 without the mic to be crippled.

[Sonnie Parker]

Have you guys read this (http://www.meridian-audio.com/w_paper/Room_Correction_scr.pdf) article on room correction.

It's very interesting and I've been trying to get some thoughts on it. I just ordered a 2805 but I'm now questioning the Auto-EQ feature and whether or not it's accurate.

I defiinitely don't see how it could be any help but to the primary listening position. If you were to move the mic to the seating position next to you or even move it a few inches from your seating position you would probably get different adjustments on your eq'ing. Think about it... if you turn your head left or right the sound is different. Only a few inches can make a big difference in what you hear.

Don't get me wrong... I'm not saying it doesn't work or that you are fooling yourself... I'm wondering and asking (in light of the article) how it can work accurately.

[Johnla]

Well that all applies to even using just a SPL meter as well, and even to adding room correction materials also. Because everything would be optimized for whatever position you had the SPL meter located at, or how you add corrections for the room. Any setup routine, no matter if it's auto or manual, will almost always as a end result. End up with it all being set to only one "perfect sweet spot". No matter how you do it... And it really can't be avoided, because not many people can sit in the one exact same location all at one time. Someone is always going to be seated "off center" and out of the "sweet spot", even if it's for just plain jane two channel stereo. And when you add in a 5.1 or 7.1 setup, it's even more of a problem.

[Sonnie Parker]

Surprisingly and more interestingly... in the thread I started concerning the above link I posted, member sdurani posted another link to Analog Devices Sharc-ART white paper:

http://www.analog.com/processors/resources/technicalLibrary/SHARC_ART_whitepaper.pdf

After reading this white paper I have a better understanding of how the Auto-EQ is functioning. It appears it even helps the entire rooms response and not just the primary listeners location. I'm not quite sure how it accomplishes this but it claims to. A very interesting read indeed.

[DIY Guy]

After you auto eq the room, is there anyway to go back in and manually adjust the frequencies and gains?

[Sonnie Parker]

Supposedly on the 3805 you can alter the parametric eq but not on the 2805. I could be wrong about this though... now that I think about it... it might be that the 3805 has a manual parametric eq. I'm not sure if it is the same eq as the Auto-EQ though.

Both have graphic equalizers that you can manually adjust but only the gain at certain frequencies. You can not change the Q.

[shelly]

I've read on the forum that the 3805 auto setup/eq sometimes changes the speaker designation (making your Large speakers into Small, and sometimes lowers the sub output so that it does not seem powerful enough.

Is it possible, after the auto setup/eq, to go back into the setup menu and change a speaker's size back to what you originally designated, and to increase the gain of the sub, WITHOUT changing any other parameters, thus keeping the auto eq with just a couple of changes?

Shelly

[jbird04]

Originally posted by shelly
I've read on the forum that the 3805 auto setup/eq sometimes changes the speaker designation (making your Large speakers into Small, and sometimes lowers the sub output so that it does not seem powerful enough.

Is it possible, after the auto setup/eq, to go back into the setup menu and change a speaker's size back to what you originally designated, and to increase the gain of the sub, WITHOUT changing any other parameters, thus keeping the auto eq with just a couple of changes?

Shelly
Yes, it is possible to make all of these changes in the setup to what you think they should be. In fact that's exactly what I did. During auto-setup, my center and surrounds were designated as large and I simply set them to small after the setup was complete. FWIW, my sub output was fine after the auto-setup and I didn't change the level at all.

Also from what I remember, you cannot alter the parametric EQ settings after the auto setup. These are static. You can set the room eq to manual though and use the graphical eq'ing.

[shelly]

Originally posted by jbird04 [/i

Also from what I remember, you [I]cannot alter the parametric EQ settings after the auto setup. These are static. You can set the room eq to manual though and use the graphical eq'ing. [/B]

Thanks for the quick response. I was hoping that it would be possible to make that adjustment for speaker size and sub volume level. Very good.

With the manual eq, does this supperimpose itself on top of and in addition to the parametric eq, or is it a totally separate listening choice? Does the manual eq allow for adjustment of differrent frequencies from the parametric one?

And one further queston, does the parametric eq chose the best frequencies to adjust or are the frequencies fixed for all the various eq (Noemal, Flat, Front et al)?

Thanks again.

Shelly

[keenan]

Originally posted by Sonnie Parker
Supposedly on the 3805 you can alter the parametric eq but not on the 2805. I could be wrong about this though... now that I think about it... it might be that the 3805 has a manual parametric eq. I'm not sure if it is the same eq as the Auto-EQ though.

Both have graphic equalizers that you can manually adjust but only the gain at certain frequencies. You can not change the Q.

On the 3805 you cannot alter the parametric EQ which is set during the Auto-setup, only the graphic EQ which has set frequency settings. A nice adjustable parametric would be very cool though.

I use the flat setting in most conditions, the normal setting just seems "wall of sound" like and artificial to me.

Jim

[jbird04]

With the manual eq, does this supperimpose itself on top of and in addition to the parametric eq, or is it a totally separate listening choice? Does the manual eq allow for adjustment of differrent frequencies from the parametric one? No, it is a totally separate listening choice - There are only the options that are in the poll: normal, flat, front, manual, and off. The first three are determined by the auto-setup parametrically and the manual option is graphical. When listening to a source, you can switch between these 5 "room-eq" options. I haven't played with the manual mode, but the frequencies are static with only gain modification.

And one further queston, does the parametric eq chose the best frequencies to adjust or are the frequencies fixed for all the various eq (Noemal, Flat, Front et al)? Yes, it chooses the 'worst' freq and fixes those. These bands vary by speaker and by eq mode ie normal, flat, front.

[JBaumgart]

Originally posted by shelly
Thanks for the quick response. I was hoping that it would be possible to make that adjustment for speaker size and sub volume level. Very good.

With the manual eq, does this supperimpose itself on top of and in addition to the parametric eq, or is it a totally separate listening choice? Does the manual eq allow for adjustment of differrent frequencies from the parametric one?

And one further queston, does the parametric eq chose the best frequencies to adjust or are the frequencies fixed for all the various eq (Noemal, Flat, Front et al)?

Thanks again.

Shelly

It is very easy to adjust speaker size and output levels from all speakers including the sub after doing the Auto EQ. For the latter you just hit "Surround" on the remote and press the "Enter" button until the display shows which speaker you want to adjust, up or down, via the cursor buttons. This is easy to do on the fly for any special situations, like boosting/cutting the sub level depending on if you are listening to music or watching a movie. The last option is a general fade between the front and rear speakers, which is very handy to boost or cut output to the rear surrounds, depending on what you're listening to. All of these volume adjustments can be made without affecting the eq settings.

As far as the manual eq, after doing your own using the graphic eq function, this just becomes an option to listen to just like Flat, Normal and Front. I haven't messed with it myself as I am completely happy with the results achieved after running Auto EQ.

In answer to your last question, yet the Auto EQ picks the best frequencies to adjust independently for each speaker (except the sub, where only speaker distance and output is adjusted). And these setting are different for the various curves set for Normal, Flat and Front, which you can view (but not adjust) after running the setup.

[Sonnie Parker]

If the Auto Setup/Auto-EQ adjust your speakers to LARGE and you initially have your x-over set to say 80hz and there are frequencies adjusted below that 80hz, then you switch you speakers back to SMALL, you've just wasted those filters that could have been used on other problems higher up.

Sounds like Denon made need a firmware upgrade to fix this. The Auto Setup should recognize that your speakers are set to SMALL and not adjust any frequencies below your x-over point.

A firmware upgrade to manually adjust the parameters of the Auto-EQ would also be a nice upgrade.


Most of the time I've found that the best way to get these upgrades is to voice your feedback to the manufacturer. Anyone know who at Denon we should voice our concerns to?

What about DenonJeff? Is he someone that can get something done?

[shelly]

Thank you so much for the helpful information. Being able to make adjustments on the fly is very important to me, and is why I ruled out the Yamaha z9 which can't, according to a reply to a post of mine.

I certainly like the auto setup/eq feature as well as getting the builtin suround and rear amp channels to augment my current Anthem 3 channel amp for the fronts in my curent system.

I have printed out the manual for the 3805 and hope to learn as much about it as I can. I actually plan to purchase either the 4805 (which should have similar operating features) or go with the Anthem avm30 and live with my current amps. All this at the end of the year.

Shelly

[Sonnie Parker]

There is no 4805.

The next biggest is the 4802R and it doesn't have these newer features.

Even the 5803 doesn't have these features.

The 5805 will be released later this month or beginning of next month if you want 10 channels of amplification and are willing to cough up 6 grand... it will offer these latest features.

Maybe later on down the line they'll offer a 4805.

[shelly]

Sonie,

I am aware that there is no 4805 aat the present time but several posts have indicated that it should be released at the end of this year. My buy time is Dec 04-Feb 05 so I will be patient. I am also waiting for the DPL IIx upgrade for the Anthem avm30, also due out later this year. Who knows what other choices in the 3k-3.5k range will be available then?

I, like many others, like to read the manuals and ask questions before purchasing, trying to anticipate the features most useful to me.

In the meantime, my Lexicon DC-1, 2 multichannel amps and 2 analog preamps for music will suffice. I'm trying to simplify my system, though.

Shelly

[Johnla]

Originally posted by Sonnie Parker
Maybe later on down the line they'll offer a 4805.
It's not a maybe......
It's a fact that a 4805 coming out, is a sure thing. And it may be out around the same time the 5805 is released.

And you can D/L the 4 pages of preliminary specs for both the new 4805 and 5805, from this thread.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4072903#post4072903

[Sonnie Parker]

And you can D/L the 4 pages of preliminary specs for both the new 4805 and 5805, from this thread.

Hmmm... I looked back through this thread and didn't see it. Maybe another thread?

Anyway... cool... I'm glad that Denon has announced the 4805. I've read about all the new receivers except the 4805. I musta missed it.

[Johnla]

Originally posted by Sonnie Parker
Maybe another thread?.

Yeah, and I forgot to provide the link to it. Even though it was my intentions to do so....

So here it is..... It's all in the "newdenonavr.zip" D/L mentioned in this post.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4072903#post4072903

[Sonnie Parker]

Thanks John... it looks like it is scheduled to be that last of the new receivers to surface.

I had not seen any thread on it so that's why I had suggested it was a "maybe". At least I got the "later on down the line" part right.

[Johnla]

Yeah... I think the 4805 will replace a lot of the 5803 type "sales" for the common people, who were buying such "flagships" before.
Because I think the new 5805 is going to be both overkill, and way too pricey at $6000 for a lot of people. And for most of the people that are looking for something that's a step above the 3805, they also probably are not looking for something quite as high end and expensive as the 5805 is going to be.

[JasonColeman]

Just to bring it back from the dead...:) Oops...forgot to cast my vote!

Jason