Blue Ocean rear projection screen

[jrz1]

I visited the US distribution office/warehouse for Nippura USA today to look at one of their new screens. I'm building a house and my AV systems integrator insisted I come see this thing that looked like a 100" plasma screen. I was planning on a 60-70" RPTV with a 110-120" front projection screen that drops down in front of it for DVDs or HDTV programming. He thought I could replace both with a 100" screen from Ocean Blue (brand by Nippura). As it turns out, I can't because of the way my room is configured, but I wish I would have known about this 3 mos. ago.

I have to say, the screens were pretty amazing. They were running a couple of different projector and screen sizes but the interesting comparison was a Stewart rear projection screen vs. an Ocean Blue both lit by NEC HT1000 projectors. The Ocean Blue screen is effectively two panels of acrlyic each around 1/2-3/4" think with the screen material sandwiched in between. The big advantage is how it handles ambient light. In full light within the warehouse, the picture on this thing looked just about as bright and clear as a plasma screen while the picture on the traditional Stewart screen was completely washed out. You also have nearly 180% viewing angle from side to side, top to bottom as well as a more 3D image. You have to see it to believe it but you can check out there website at:

www.usnippura.com

If I could start from scratch on the design of my media room, I would definitely set it up to handle a 100" screen either flush mounted on the wall or suspended (no frame is necessary for the screen as it is quite rigid) from the ceiling with the projector behind it. Pretty cool stuff. Nippura apparently has been a leading mfg. of acquarium walls (big stuff) for quite some time. They say you can even use a custom designed one (thicker) as one wall of a pool and project an ocean scene onto the screen so you see high def fish as you swim underwater.

Downside is they're expensive (although if my room would have allowed me to do it it would have been about the same as a combo front projector & RPTV). The 100" has a msrp of around $10K. Ouch. Really cool though!

[Daniel Hutnicki]

Sounds very interesting. Hopefully they will be at Cedia and I will be able to check them out

[Brandon B]

Their stuff's been posted in this forum recently, it is pretty spiffy. They also do hemispheres and stuff.

It would be more informative if you posted which Stewart screen you were comparing to. They make a broad line of RP screens, and some handle ambient far better than others, the latter not being designed for it.

Not sure if you'd see them at CEDIA yet, Daniel. They are in the process of figuring out how to get into this market (as jrz1 says, they are in the large aquarium tank business), and their pricing also shows this.

BB

[raoul]

that's cool stuff. nice to see people are finally innovating on the screen side as well.

are there any good calculators out there for playing with the amount of space one would need to sacrifice for a rear projection setting?

[Daniel Hutnicki]

If the company is smart, they can produce a dual purpose screen. It can be an acquarium by day and at night its a projection screen

Seriously though, the pricing is very expensive. On a website I saw it said that the MSRP is 13000 for the 100 diag. Thats alot of money for a screen even if its the best one out there

[Jason Turk]

Man screen companies are popping out of the woodwork lately. Their seems to be a whole bunch of new ones. It's a tough market, the big 4 have been around so long and produce such good products that these smaller guys are going to find it tough to compete in my opinion.

[Tryg]

that's what I said about audio equipment. Stay small, price it higher and add more Hyperbole to your marketing.

[jrz1]

They gave me the name of a company in CA that specializes in custom mirror systems. I tried to work things out but I only had 40-50" behind the screen and while I could have done it, I would have been severely restricted in projector choice. If you have 5-6', you are money. I'm not sure which Stewart screen they were using but with any ambient light it was no contest. They showed one demo on the credits to a movie and the white letters bled light into the black background (ghosting?). On their screen there was absolutely none. This is their core competency - perfect optics in acrylics for aquariums. This stuff was sharp. The quote I got on MSRP of the 100" screen was $10K, but rest assured, there is a significant amount of markup that your installer has to play with. If you're friendly with him or if you're buying a lot of stuff, I'd guess you can do much better. I was ready to pull the trigger just on the basis of how well it handled the ambient light. I could have used it in broad daylight. In fact they say you can mount these screens outside since all of the sensitive reflective material is sandwhiched in between the acrylic. Some VERY cool mounting possibilities to since it doesn't require a frame. In the warehouse, they had one hanging by wires with no frame etc. Looked like a thick sheet of glass (semi-opaque) hanging in space until they turned the projector on then wala! I guess I was just lucky that they decided to put their US distribution center/office in Charlotte so I got to see it. While these guys may be "smaller" in the screen world, their product is so unique, I'm guessing they grow quickly. I don't think the core competencies the other screen makers have would translate into the ability to make something like this. I'm guessing this is also SIGNIFICANTLY more capital intensive in terms of the manufacturing process which explains some of the price difference. It's like a flat glass plant rolling huge sections of glass. Takes a little bit of equipment to do that.

[Brandon B]

Originally posted by jrz1
I'm not sure which Stewart screen they were using but with any ambient light it was no contest.

That's sort of my point. Some RP screens are not designed for high ambient light conditions, some are. Can't imagine they picked the best of Stewart's line to compare to.

I'm not knocking their product, some of my coworkers have seen it and I agree it is very good. Just think that until Stewart sets up the conditions for their half of the comparison, it's not apples to apples.

BB

[noah katz]

"I tried to work things out but I only had 40-50" behind the screen and while I could have done it,"

You could also do a 2-mirror setup , and or add a wide angle adapter lens for a hundred bucks.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=378751&highlight=wide+angle+adapter

[Christopher Calder]

Sounds to me like a screen meant for advertising. These are usually difusion screens with claims of high gain, but the picture quality is actually not very good.

Christopher

[Brandon B]

It wasn't developed for advertising. They actually make (LARGE) acrylic aquarium tanks, and this was sort of developed as a sideline thing for projected exhibits.

BB

[jrz1]

Yes, I could have used a 2 mirror setup but that increased expenses and still I would have needed a projector with a very short throw ratio. too limiting. I just didn't have the extra 12-24" that it took to gain more flexibility.

I will disagree with the statement that this was not designed for optimal picture quality. I'm not an expert, but the quality and depth of the picture far exceeded the standard screen. I will call the office tomorrow and find out which Stewart screen they were using, but you just have to understand just how different their screen technology is. It'll become more widely available shortly and I'm sure the reviews will start coming in.

[paulgas]

I think this idea has a lot of promise. For me I would love the idea of having a bright wall of picture. I must admit I am a little intimidated by the idea of placing mirrors, sourceing mirrors etc to make this work at my house but if that were easy to do or if there were a bunch of people out there with businesses to do this for me I would look at it. I mean think of it, for the price a 60 inch plasma you can have 100" and have a very slick install. I hope someone does one of these and posts pictures.
Paul

[jrz1]

They referred me to a Co. in CA that assembles the entire mirror system in a custom built rack so there is no worry about getting things aligned. I think all you have to do is align the mirror rack with the screen and set the projector in the specified place and you're done.

This is not the mirror Co., but I'm guessing from the description these guys are marketing a complete system using the Blue Ocean technology. There are some pictures and diagrams here.... do a search for e-bay item number: 5712179231

[cydersolutions]

All I am going to say is you have to see the picture quality to believe how good it really is. I am a dealer of the product and it is amazing.

[Alan Gouger]

cydersolutions

Sounds interesting.
Whats estimated MSRP for a typical 16x9 6 foot wide with 2 mirrors. Or whats $ per foot.
Curious as to how expensive. Ridiculously expensive or expensive.
Thanks!

jrz1

Did a search using 5712179231. Its a dead link.

[cydersolutions]

Only have done a direct view. The 100" MSRP is $13500 the 84" MSRP is $8900 and the 72" is $6600. I am looking into a single mirror system for a client. I will post the pricing for the system when I have it done. The benefit is that you can just swap the projector without replacing the screen since the clarity is second to none. They are expensive but they do have an amazing picture even with a ton of light on in the room.

[noah katz]

"but the quality and depth of the picture far exceeded the standard screen."

Was this the case in a dark room? Any screen designed to be resistant ambient light will trounce one that isn't.

I'm not saying it's not unique, but it may not be. There are a variety of low-gain (the BO goes from .7 to 1.3) RP screens designed for high ambient light conditions - Stewart Graphite, Jenmar Blackscreen, 3M Vikuiti.

Basically they use a lot of tinting. For each halving of gain the CR with ambient light is doubled; the emitted light passes through the tint layer once but the reflected light, twice.

"I will call the office tomorrow and find out which Stewart screen they were using, but you just have to understand just how different their screen technology is."

I'm trying to, but the only bit of technical info on the web site id the gain.

Thanks

[kraigk]

Looking at their brochures you can't help be intrigued by the idea. When these get into the hands of the experts and are scrutinzed, tested and so on will be the real test for the home theater crowd.

If they don't pass muster for home theater I can still see them being used in conference rooms, lobby's, etc. In fact I've got a conference room project that would be perfect for this, we were considering a large plasma..

[Ericglo]

How do they compare to the DNP screens?

Ericglo

[cydersolutions]

The cool thing about the screen is that while it is a rear projection you can also shoot and image to the either side at the same time and the image will appear normal to the the client/person on the front side of the screen. I also like the fact that it can be outside too like by a pool with the projector inside. I usually demo it in a conference room or a bright place just to show the client how incredibly bright the image is.

[noah katz]

" I usually demo it in a conference room or a bright place just to show the client how incredibly bright the image is."

It seems that must be due to an incredibly bright pj, since the maximum gain is only 1.3.

Or perhaps that's because it's exceptionally good at maintaining CR with ambient light. It would be nice if they told us what the spec is, I believe it's common to give on-screen CR with 100 lux ambient light.

[cydersolutions]

I think the projector that I used last time was a 2lbs portable sony cheapo projector. That is what the client had. I would be willing to ship my sample to you if you want to see it in person. I of course would just need that sample back.

[jrz1]

Not an expert, but you don't need a special projector. You just cannot compare normal screen material with this stuff. Forget about the gain. I think it's how the screen captures and transmits the light without any interference from ambient light. Got to see it to believe it. I had a deal to get the 100" screen for less than 2x my current electric 123" firehawk but couldn't make it work within my space.

[Alan Gouger]

cydersolutions
I would also guess the projector of choice is not important but what is is the light path between the screen and projector. If theres ambient light to wash it out it will do so. Another words you could not put the screen by the poolside with the projector outside on a table throwing a picture. You need total darkness between to screen and projector to maximize contrast or am I wrong?
When used in FP mode any benefit to this over conventional FP screens. Thanks!

[cydersolutions]

Alan, I am in Rochester. I could stop by and at least show you the screen and you could see for yourself. I am in the Gates area. I know where your offices are and if you would like I could show you. Email me it is in my profile.

[Brandon B]

I saw these at the EHX show in Long Beach. The PJs were all in a light controlled tent, with the screens out in fairly typically lit convention room floor. They were pretty remarkable looking considering the environment. The rep on hand seems to have little interest in talking to me about them, though, in spite of the fairly reasonable likelihood of me purchasing something like this in a professional capacity, so I took some literature and left.

But they are definitely a product worth looking into.

BB

[kromkamp]

In a year or two you will be able to buy a real plasma set that size for that price!

[Expensive Hobby]

Does anyone know how this particular screen from blue ocean compares to Drapers Cinescreen or Da-Lite Da-Glas (or Da- Plex) rear projection screens. There rear projection screen are basically a glass or acrylic material with an optical coating on the surface. I checked there prices and they run around $1500 for a 106" - 16:9. Not sure how the performance compares though with the Blue Ocean.

[Marshall F]

I doubt the dnp can be used in a pool.

"Nippura Inc. has high hopes and big ideas for its Blue Ocean rear-projection screens. A Japanese company with offices in Charlotte, N.C., Nippura has completed prototypes of custom-built swimming pools that feature a 0.75-inch-thick Blue Ocean screen in place of one wall. Strong enough to withstand the force of the pool's thousands of gallons of water, the screen wall treats swimmers to high-definition 1080p-resolution video of bottlenose dolphins. The pool screens are just now starting to generate interest and orders among luxury buyers."

That would be wild. I suppose if a shark juped in your pool, just run "Flipper" to scare them off. I hope the screen includes an optics grade mask and HD snorkel.

Who is in Charlotte that could see this?