View Full Version : New software clobbers CA in modified 55xx units
DarkScreen
08-17-04, 11:47 AM
This morning, my 5504s with a 50xx image running CA got a new software download. After the unit restarted, the CA feature was GONE.
Guess us CA diehards will need to wait for someone with a 55xx to upload an image with the new software (unless CA has been removed from them too!)....and then begin the painful process of downloading all programs to DV Archive, pulling out the HDD's, and writing the 50xx image on them.
Seems like this is a fire drill we'll need to repeat every time we're treated to a new software download.
what version of software did it put in?
DarkScreen
08-17-04, 12:08 PM
530511440
Amazingly Smooth
08-17-04, 12:18 PM
Don't worry. There won't be that many software updates...
DarkScreen
08-17-04, 12:31 PM
Can anyone verify that the new software still supports CA on 50xx machines?
Originally posted by DarkScreen
This morning, my 5504s with a 50xx image running CA got a new software download. After the unit restarted, the CA feature was GONE.
Guess us CA diehards will need to wait for someone with a 55xx to upload an image with the new software (unless CA has been removed from them too!)....and then begin the painful process of downloading all programs to DV Archive, pulling out the HDD's, and writing the 50xx image on them.
Seems like this is a fire drill we'll need to repeat every time we're treated to a new software download. You really need to learn the Wirns way of enabling CA/IVS (assuming it still works). I have a 5504 but it hasn't yet got this new software release. As soon as I get it and if I find CA/IVS gone then I will try and re-enable with the Wirns trick. Takes 5 mins if you know what you're doing and no hassle of re-imaging.
bradbomb
08-17-04, 12:53 PM
plus the wirns way doesnt need us to wait for someone to post an image from a 50xx with the new software. But if this is true, this turns around what was previously thought. When I had first stumbled on the reimaging trick, I had used an earlier software version and my machine had updated itself to the later version and it kept the CA and IVS active. I hope DNNA is not out to stop this because they are already losing customers on there lack of updating the line of REplayTVs and the hints that they are just going to phase them out completely and stick to only high end machines
Originally posted by DarkScreen
Can anyone verify that the new software still supports CA on 50xx machines?
I'm confident it will.
The thing to do now is ignore the situation for a few days. The new image will go up to the ftp server and you can reimage. Just distract yourself away from the issue. It's magic
or learn the WiRNs thing
plyons10
08-17-04, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by bradbomb
But if this is true, this turns around what was previously thought. When I had first stumbled on the reimaging trick, I had used an earlier software version and my machine had updated itself to the later version and it kept the CA and IVS active.
Hmmm... that sounds bad... I don't know, Cow. It might be different this time.
I do remember people saying they got upgraded and kept CA / IVS... but not this time. That's not cool.
DarkScreen
08-17-04, 01:01 PM
Does the Wirns trick let CA work locally on the ReplayTV units (and with the 50xx style CA menus enabled) or must DV Archive be running on the network?
DarkScreen
08-17-04, 01:07 PM
Has anyone found a reliable way to re-image without losing all the recorded programs? Downloading to DV Archive is a pain.
Or, has anyone come up with a way to upload DV Archive shows back to the ReplayTV?
FWIW, the hardware in a ShowStopper and a ReplayTV 3XXX series machine is virtually identical. But there was a time they treated macrovision differently. Early on a ShowStopper would not display nor allow recording of any macrovision encoded content, while a ReplayTV would display it and record it. If you put a ReplayTV 3XXX image on a ShowStopper, it would allow macrovision until the next net connect and then revert to the ShowStopper method. Same software, just a flag in the software to tell it to behave like a ShowStopper or ReplayTV. (This all changed with version 3 of the software, making the two lines of machines operationally identical)
If DNNA has indeed decided to remove CA and IVS from 55XX series machines, my guess is that it will be difficult to keep those features enabled if you allow the machine to net connect. Re-imaging may only work until it net connects.
Originally posted by DarkScreen
Has anyone found a reliable way to re-image without losing all the recorded programs? No.
Originally posted by DarkScreen
Or, has anyone come up with a way to upload DV Archive shows back to the ReplayTV? And no.
I'm assuming it did, but did it clobber IVS as well?
DarkScreen
08-17-04, 01:59 PM
Yup. No IVS. Just the default 55xx features.
gweempose
08-17-04, 02:29 PM
It is highly unlikely that they will ever disable CA and IVS on the 5000 series. Can you imagine the mutiny they would have on their hands? I, for one, would never buy a D&M product again.
DarkScreen
08-17-04, 02:58 PM
Act fast!!
Here's a possible way to preserve shows on 55xx machines that have 5xxx images if the software has not yet been updated with the latest version:
1. Disconnect your DSL or CableModem (so that your RTV's can't download the new software before you're ready).
2. Use IVS to move all the shows on RTV 1 to RTV 2 (assuming there is enough storage space).
3. Take the HDD out of RTV 1 and re-image it with a 50xx image that has the new software version on it (when available).
4. Disconnect the LAN cable from RTV 2 and then re-connect the broadband cable.
5. Connect to the service on RTV 1 and confirm that no new software is downloaded (software download messages last several minutes). After connection completes, confirm that CA and IVS features are still there.
6. Disconnect the broadband cable and reconnect the LAN to RTV 2.
7. Use IVS to move all the shows from RTV 2 (which now have both RTV1 and RTV 2 shows on it) to RTV 1.
6. Repeat steps 3 and 5 for RTV 2.
7. Transfer any desired shows from RTV 1 back to RTV 2.
Let me know if anyone is successful with this. It's too late for me. Both my units have reverted back to a 55xx.
johnmagee4
08-17-04, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by DarkScreen
Act fast!!
Here's a possible way to preserve shows on 55xx machines that have 5xxx images if the software has not yet been updated with the latest version:
...
2. Use IVS to move all the shows on RTV 1 to RTV 2 (assuming there is enough storage space).
...
7. Use IVS to move all the shows from RTV 2 (which now have both RTV1 and RTV 2 shows on it) to RTV 1.
...
Let me know if anyone is successful with this. It's too late for me. Both my units have reverted back to a 55xx.
You probably won't be able to re-IVS a show back to your other machine in the same what that you can't send a received show to someone else.
Unless I've missed something here, once you move a show from RTV1 to RTV2, you won't be able to re-send that show from RTV2 to any other machine. That inherent limitation is one of the few things that kept IVS alive for as long as it was.
D'oh. Just what I get for reading the thread but not reloading it after the five minutes it took to read thoroughly. What johnmagee4 said.
You also won't be able to send shows from one ReplayTV to another via IVS unless you have a router that can handle loopback, and most can't. If you can, great, more power to you.
Originally posted by DarkScreen
Act fast!!
Here's a possible way to preserve shows on 55xx machines that have 5xxx images if the software has not yet been updated with the latest version:
1. Disconnect your DSL or CableModem (so that your RTV's can't download the new software before you're ready).
2. Use IVS to move all the shows on RTV 1 to RTV 2 (assuming there is enough storage space).
3. Take the HDD out of RTV 1 and re-image it with a 50xx image that has the new software version on it (when available).
4. Disconnect the LAN cable from RTV 2 and then re-connect the broadband cable.
5. Connect to the service on RTV 1 and confirm that no new software is downloaded (software download messages last several minutes). After connection completes, confirm that CA and IVS features are still there.
6. Disconnect the broadband cable and reconnect the LAN to RTV 2.
7. Use IVS to move all the shows from RTV 2 (which now have both RTV1 and RTV 2 shows on it) to RTV 1.
6. Repeat steps 3 and 5 for RTV 2.
7. Transfer any desired shows from RTV 1 back to RTV 2.
Let me know if anyone is successful with this. It's too late for me. Both my units have reverted back to a 55xx.
Have you even looked into WiRNS? Sure seems like that's what you need, but don't want to try...
It's almost as if the 're-imager-wanna-dos' have every wirns suggester in their ignore list.
Friggin shame that.
I mean for chris sakes let's make this as hard as it possibly can be.
DarkScreen
08-17-04, 04:44 PM
Pardon my ignorance of WiRNS (see my post #10), but from what little I could tell from the readme file, it seems to me that this tool requires DVArchive to be running to get CA to work. The PC I use to run DVArchive is often not on when I want to watch one of the RTVs on a local TV.
A little education (or a pointer to more info) would be appreciated.
Conspiracy
08-17-04, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by DarkScreen
Pardon my ignorance of WiRNS (see my post #10), but from what little I could tell from the readme file, it seems to me that this tool requires DVArchive to be running to get CA to work. The PC I use to run DVArchive is often not on when I want to watch one of the RTVs on a local TV.
A little education (or a pointer to more info) would be appreciated.
WiRNS and DVArchive have nothing to do with each other. In it's normal incarnation, WiRNS proxies transactions between your Replay and the mothership to load non-mothership guide data. In this particular application you don't need to set up all the guide data re-direction. If you do a search there is a ton of info on WiRNS.
As a matter of fact, Wirns and DVArchive CANNOT be running at the same time on the same machine. They both fight over port 80.
So what will software version 530511440 do for us?
adone36
08-17-04, 05:17 PM
Our hysterical poster not withstanding, I thought a software update ALWAYS returned a modded 55XX back to its original state.
Bigjohns
08-17-04, 05:23 PM
Originally posted by dfjkl
As a matter of fact, Wirns and DVArchive CANNOT be running at the same time on the same machine. They both fight over port 80.
Errm, wrong.
If you're running win2k or XP you can add a second IP address to your NIC. Then assign that second NIC to DVArchive via the DVarchive properties page.
John
Originally posted by adone36
I thought a software update ALWAYS returned a modded 55XX back to its original state. Not true. A factory reset always returned it to its original state, but not a software update.
Originally posted by Jeff D
Have you even looked into WiRNS? If DNNA has decided to disable CA and IVS on the 55XX series, WiRNS in its current incarnation will not re-enable them.
Originally posted by DarkScreen
Pardon my ignorance of WiRNS (see my post #10), but from what little I could tell from the readme file, it seems to me that this tool requires DVArchive to be running to get CA to work. The PC I use to run DVArchive is often not on when I want to watch one of the RTVs on a local TV.
A little education (or a pointer to more info) would be appreciated. You don't need DVArchive at all. You only need a very minimal Wirns install and you only need to run Wirns once to enable things, then you don't need Wirns anymore. Of course, this is all assuming the new software hasn't changed the way it deals with registry settings. I'm not going to bother trying until I get the new software.
Originally posted by Bigjohns
Errm, wrong.
If you're running win2k or XP you can add a second IP address to your NIC. Then assign that second NIC to DVArchive via the DVarchive properties page.
John
Technicalities now, eh?!! Yeah, you're right there. OK, they cannot occupy the same port (80) on the same ip address. ;)
DarkScreen
08-17-04, 06:44 PM
You don't need DVArchive at all. You only need a very minimal Wirns install and you only need to run Wirns once to enable things, then you don't need Wirns anymore. Of course, this is all assuming the new software hasn't changed the way it deals with registry settings. I'm not going to bother trying until I get the new software.
Sorry, my dumb pills haven't worn off yet. When you say "enable things" do you mean that the 55xx units (at least with the previous Replay software) will think they're 50xx units and show the CA related options on-screen?
Originally posted by DarkScreen
Sorry, my dumb pills haven't worn off yet. When you say "enable things" do you mean that the 55xx units (at least with the previous Replay software) will think they're 50xx units and show the CA related options on-screen? I wouldn't phrase it quite that way but yes, they will show CA & IVS options. I used both very extensively with my 5504 over the last 2-3 months as have many others. Previously a 243-Zones factory reset was known to reset (kill) the features, but you could just run the Wirns plugin again to re-enable, and now looks like software updates can/do reset things too.
Bigjohns
08-17-04, 06:59 PM
So someone who has been 'boned' by this new software definately needs to try the WIRNS config! ASAP.
We might need to get some reverse engineering done again if WIRNS don't work.... and 50xx images don't keep.... OY!
John
clambert11
08-17-04, 08:06 PM
I think this post is somewhat funny actually. It ends up scaring a lot of people for no reason. Choosing to reimage the drive over the WiRNS method is just downright silly (unless for some reason it's your only option). At first, people thought this was the only option 2 enable CA & IVS. As it turns out, it's not. It's A LOT more work to do it this way, plus you lose your shows. Why bother?
We already pretty much knew that a factory reset or software update would reset the hacked features. It'll just take a couple minutes again to reinitiate the features again using WiRNS.
Now if for some reason the new software update prohibited WiRNS from working, that would suck. But I really doubt that is the case here. It's really not worth worrying over yet. And if I do lose it, oh well. Yeah, I would be bummed. But I bought a 5504, not a 5040.
I tried both my 5.5k boxes and neither has a update pushed... so, anyone else with a clue got a 5.5k box with a newer version?
If I suspect correctly wirns may be the only option now, but that's impossible to say without looking at what's going on.
updates should not reset the box, shouldn't not... but I'm sure they can do whatever they want. =)
plyons10
08-17-04, 09:23 PM
Originally posted by clambert11
We already pretty much knew that a factory reset or software update would reset the hacked features. It'll just take a couple minutes again to reinitiate the features again using WiRNS.
Actually, we did not think that a software update would disable these features. Pre-WiRNS, people loaded older version of the 5xxx software onto their 55xxs, re-connected to the mother ship, downloaded newer software, and yet they preserverd CA and IVS.
The hysteria around this all goes back to the fact that the WiRNS method of re-enabling CA / IVS was not, at first, openly and fully disclosed by those in the know. So many users do not use that method still.
At this point, until someone with the new 55xx software uses that method to re-enable CA /IVS, we just don't know the status.
plyons10
08-17-04, 09:24 PM
BTW... if you have the new software for the 55xx and are willing to do a little work (without losing any shows or cracking open your Replay case), let us know and we'll walk you through it.
DarkScreen
08-17-04, 09:59 PM
BTW... if you have the new software for the 55xx and are willing to do a little work (without losing any shows or cracking open your Replay case), let us know and we'll walk you through it.
As an early bonee and completely oblivious of wirns until today (although I have had some exposure to worms), I tried seeing if I could get wirns set up on my Windows 2000 PC to try it out on one of my 5504's. Trying to follow the installation procedure, I had some success in getting wirns to download Guides, but not to connect to the RTV (I don't think). It's likely that my guesses at one or more of the ip or dns numbers are wrong.
Peter, I'd like to take you up on your offer to walk me through the process. Or, if there's a foolproof-for-dummies procedure you can post for this, it should prove useful to others once the software rollout spreads to the rest of the world.
If you want to do it over the phone, send me a private message with your phone number and a good time for me to call. I'm in the PDT timezone.
Thanks, Barry
Barry, you don't even need to do the guide stuff, it's actually much quicker than the guide download versions. All that is required is to get the replay to correctly connect to to the replay servers via you wirns PC.
Make sure you don't have DVArchive on the PC that's running the proxy. The trick is making sure wirns configured to your DNS server (most of the times it's your router IP when the router resolves to the DNS provided by your IP) Otherwise you need to set it to the value provided by your IP.
What town you in?
richierich
08-17-04, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by DarkScreen
Or, if there's a foolproof-for-dummies procedure you can post for this, it should prove useful to others once the software rollout spreads to the rest of the world.
Thanks, Barry
I found the following thread incredibly useful (I was helping a friend--I own 50XX machines so didn't need to run it myself). http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=398749&perpage=20&pagenumber=2
DarkScreen
08-17-04, 10:46 PM
All that is required is to get the replay to correctly connect to to the replay servers via you wirns PC
Jeff, sounds encouraging, but I still have some questions:
I have DVArchive installed on the PC I'm using with wirns, but it's not running at the same time as the wirns server. Is this OK?
The trick is making sure wirns configured to your DNS server (most of the times it's your router IP when the router resolves to the DNS provided by your IP)
On the http://127.0.0.1:8923/manage/ConfigureWirns site, I have the wirns IP set to the IP address of my PC and the DNS server set to the IP address of my router box (not my ISP's IP address). Is this correct?
I have a fixed IP address on my RTV, but I'm unclear as to what the DNS1 and 2 settings should be on the RTV. Right now they (and the gateway) are set to the address of the router.
Additionally, I have the IIS Admin Service turned off so that DVArchive can run its server when launched. Is this a problem?
If and when I'm able to get things configured correctly, is it obvious as to how I get to the controls that turn the CA feature back on? I didn't see anything on the web site above that looked like it would do this.
BTW, I'm in west San Jose.
DarkScreen,
I think part of your confusion stems from the fact that most everyone is leaving out a major piece of the puzzle for the WiRNS solution--my GetShellCommands.dll plugin. See the site in my sig, get the plugin, and follow its included instructions instead of those for WiRNS (GSC only requires a subset of the normal WiRNS install). You will need to supply your own shell commands as appropriate, but those can be found in many threads here (including the one linked by richierich above).
DarkScreen
08-17-04, 11:12 PM
I think part of your confusion stems from the fact that most everyone is leaving out a major piece of the puzzle for the WiRNS solution--my GetShellCommands.dll plugin.
Yes! A very large missing piece to this puzzle. And with richierich's link, I'm ready to take another stab at it. Thanks!
plyons10
08-17-04, 11:18 PM
Sounds like you are on your way... The IP addresses you are using all look square to me. I would call tonight , but it's past my bed time in the East (I'm a bond trader, and we get up before the farmers out here).
If you can't get it tonight, we can try again tomorrow... but I think you're 75% there.
i have three 5000 michines and two new ones on the way. when i pull the hds out of the the new ones to put new larger drives in. Will it help out if i copy the drive image after the software update for you 5500 guys?
DarkScreen (I'm sure I'll be corrected if wrong) but... IIRC the replay needs to be static and you need to set the DNS 1 value to the IP of the wirns machine. You only need one, but you do need wirns running when you attempt to change the replay's DNS value.
rm -rf *.*
08-18-04, 01:34 AM
There was something on the old tiwiki site that caught my eye a long time ago, but, it just ened up slipping by the wayside and being forgotten about - until now. Kinna need a clue card from someone who has a more advanced insight into the ReplayTV OS on this one and since this seems like an ideal thread to stuff it into...
If one were to take an RTV-55xx that is fully functional running a 5040 OS image, say v530510190, (eg: CA & IVS currently "ON") would toggling the registry flag "Software/Apps/Setup/AllowSysUpdate" prevent the loading of this new OS build (and therefore preserving the CA & IVS)?
I'd experiment on one of my RTV's, but I don't have a 55xx anymore. I did however, enable the flag on one of my 5040's running v530510190, but, the new *cough* virus, er, OS build doesn't seem to have made it out the left coast yet...
If you need more details, let me know - I am knowingly & completely intentionally, omitting certian details (if you know the answer, then you know what I'm omitting - if you don't, then, most likely
_you_don't_...) because I don't exactly know what the above will produce for results and I don't want a herd of 55xx lemmings following me if the above has some adverse side effects - which I believe that it might...
Originally posted by Jeff D
DarkScreen (I'm sure I'll be corrected if wrong) but... IIRC the replay needs to be static and you need to set the DNS 1 value to the IP of the wirns machine. You only need one, but you do need wirns running when you attempt to change the replay's DNS value. An alternative to the above which worked for me - I leave the RTV settings alone (DHCP) and temporarily adjust the DNS of the router setup itself to point to Wirns server. I find this a little easier then messing with the RTV setup. Once the net connect completes and I verify the features are enabled reverting the router back to it's correct DNS settings is a breeze.
It's been a long time since i last used the wirns method, so it's possible that i'm doing it wrong. But, my 5504 connected thru wirns (i saw the proxy window handling the requests), so it looks like it connected successfully.
Unfortunately, after a wirns connection, and even after a reboot, CA and IVS is still gone on my 5504.
:(
rm -rf *.*
08-18-04, 04:29 AM
If that's correct, I was kinna wondering when DNNA was going close the liability loophole and pull the plug on this s**t...
The fact that it was open shouldn't have been a liability if the users do stuff after the sale it's not really the fault of the developer. But... that's open to argument I guess. I would think it's up to DNNA and folks running around in suits.
as for the suggested method above about updates, I can't report any success. I've tried a few things and can seem to get the registry to take my changes. I'm asking for help from the higher powers... =)
DarkScreen
08-18-04, 05:09 AM
Thanks to those who've provided the missing puzzle pieces, I think I've got the wirns thing properly connecting to my 5504 with the new RTV software.
Unfortunately, it doesn't end up enabling CA or IVS. Doing a "Connect to ReplayTV Service Now" goes through all the normal on-screen status information that it does when connecting to the mothership. Looking at the wirnserv console screen during this process, the RTV does seem to be communicating with my PC and the GetShellCommand seems to be trying to do its thing.
If I'm doing things right, then it looks like the updated software on 55xx units may be another new challenge for the software gurus.
BTW, although I've been distracted with wirns and worms, I've not noticed any functional differences with the new RTV software. I'm curious to see if the CA and IVS features go away on 50xx units when they are infiltrated with the new software. This could make things really difficult.
Here's what the console looks like from program launch to completion of the RTV "connection":
Like the Olympics venue, much of it is Greek to me. I'm sure it tells a story to some of you. Hopefully it will be helpful in either pointing out errors of mine or a helping to come up with a new solution for dealing with the lost CA and IVS features.
Originally posted by DarkScreen
I'm curious to see if the CA and IVS features go away on 50xx units when they are infiltrated with the new software. I can understand why they would remove features from a series never intended to have them (55XX). On the other hand, I see no reason why they would disable those features on a series that was sold with them included.
plyons10
08-18-04, 08:34 AM
Originally posted by l8er
I can understand why they would remove features from a series never intended to have them (55XX). On the other hand, I see no reason why they would disable those features on a series that was sold with them included.
It's very unlikely they would do so, if only because I fairly certain they are still sitting on a pile of refurb'd 50xx's that they are probably anxious to get rid of (and to sell subscriptions for).
Originally posted by rm -rf *.*
If one were to take an RTV-55xx that is fully functional running a 5040 OS image, say v530510190, (eg: CA & IVS currently "ON") would toggling the registry flag "Software/Apps/Setup/AllowSysUpdate" prevent the loading of this new OS build (and therefore preserving the CA & IVS)?
FWIW, I do not believe that regedit value controls software upgrades. I'm not sure it controls anything. In the event it does, it is easy enough to toggle this value by entering 989-zones at the "Dial Method" setup screen (the one that says "Choose the dialing method that works for your area").
Again though, I don't think it will have the desired effect. However, try setting "SysConfig/Tweak/DisableSoftwareDownload" to "TRUE" as it ostensibly should work.
Maybe it's time to take this talk underground? I think the next development should be kept quite.
I'm all for sharing, but in this case it had a negative result. Next time no one talks. ;)
We need a secret handshake.
plyons10
08-18-04, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by Jeff D
I'm all for sharing, but in this case it had a negative result. Next time no one talks. ;)
It's really premature to draw that conclusion. First of all, I dont' think it's even been definitively proven that the new software disables the work-around for CA / IVS.... I won't be convinced until a seasoned Replay veteran gets his / her hands on the software and verifies it.
I'm skeptical of any claims that DNNA actually gives a cr@p about this stuff, frankly. They have other things to worry about -- there is no litigation on this matter, nor any settlements with which to comply that would motivate them to make this change.
And if they did care about the miniscule portion of their 55xx users who took advantage of this, it would be much easier and effective to send out a pause ad or some other notice to these users. This would also cover their legal butt alot more effectively than pushing the new software (which utimately will also be cracked anyway).
Don't let's get parnoid. Even if the new software forces us to change our approach, I'm willing to bet the price of a 5040 that it had very little to do with the hacks discussed here, and was instead an inadvertent change.
Originally posted by DarkScreen
...
BTW, although I've been distracted with wirns and worms, I've not noticed any functional differences with the new RTV software.
I'm curious to see if the CA and IVS features go away on 50xx units when they are infiltrated with the new software. This could make things really difficult.
...
Closed Captioning is improved.
b144 does not affect the availability of CA and IVS on 50xx, meaning they
are still available.
DarkScreen
08-18-04, 01:03 PM
b144 does not affect the availability of CA and IVS on 50xx
This is good news!
Keep in mind that my failure (and others?) to get CA and IVS working on a 55xx could very well be pilot error. See post 56 for further details.
I've got a 5504 coming my way that I had intended on using the Wirns method on. Needless to say, I'm very interested in this topic.
rm -rf *.*
08-18-04, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by Jeff D
The fact that it was open shouldn't have been a liability if the users do stuff after the sale it's not really the fault of the developer. But... that's open to argument I guess. I would think it's up to DNNA and folks running around in suits.
as for the suggested method above about updates, I can't report any success. I've tried a few things and can seem to get the registry to take my changes. I'm asking for help from the higher powers... =)
If someone can sue a firearms manufacturer because they built a product and somebody misused it and killed someone else and have the mfgr be found liable or a family member can sue a automobile manufacturer because their now injured/deceased relative used one of their vehicles in a manner inconstant with that under which it was sold and again, the mfgr is found liable == then I don't see how this can be any different - although I do agree with you that, ultimately, it's up to a bunch of self-serving a-holes that are commonly known as attorneys.
blacknoi
08-18-04, 09:21 PM
I'm in NJ and have a 5504. I confirm I've lost my IVS and CA (that I enabled via WiRNS originally).
My replay must have just gotten the new sofware. I'm very sad.
EDIT: I forgot to mention, that I tried using WiRNS to put it back on and NOTHING. It did not come back.
My IVS and CA was on there for about 2 months (as soon as I got the Replay, i did the wirns trick to turn it on).
DarkScreen
08-18-04, 09:47 PM
I forgot to mention, that I tried using WiRNS to put it back on and NOTHING. It did not come back.
Greg, thanks for further validating that this is a genuine problem with the new software. And one that the current version of wirns does not resolve.
Guess we'll have to reduce our quality of life a little and put a little extra wear on the right arrow key on the remote.... until the software wizards figure things out. I'm confident that they will. :)
Bigjohns
08-18-04, 10:04 PM
Originally posted by rm -rf *.*
If someone can sue a firearms manufacturer because they built a product and somebody misused it and killed someone else and have the mfgr be found liable or a family member can sue a automobile manufacturer because their now injured/deceased relative used one of their vehicles in a manner inconstant with that under which it was sold and again, the mfgr is found liable == then I don't see how this can be any different - although I do agree with you that, ultimately, it's up to a bunch of self-serving a-holes that are commonly known as attorneys.
Thank the lord that most states have outlawed such suits. If YOU misuses a product, the manufacturer of that product can't be liable. Imagine if you could sue BIC lighter company because it set fire to your house when you tried to burn off a pan full of gasoline in your garage?
GooberedUp
08-18-04, 11:26 PM
Originally posted by rm -rf *.*
although I do agree with you that, ultimately, it's up to a bunch of self-serving a-holes that are commonly known as attorneys.
Niiiice . . .
johnmagee4
08-19-04, 12:04 AM
So is it official... there is no current way around this? Or is it strictly on the QT... the hush hush... etc.? :)
My theory is that NBC paid them to remove it during the Olympics. There's a commercial every 3 minutes, then 3 minutes of someone's life story, and then 30 seconds of event time... rinse and repeat.
mhargr03
08-19-04, 12:41 AM
Originally posted by rm -rf *.* ultimately, it's up to a bunch of self-serving a-holes that are commonly known as attorneys. oh snap
Conspiracy
08-19-04, 01:15 AM
Originally posted by j.m.
However, try setting "SysConfig/Tweak/DisableSoftwareDownload" to "TRUE" as it ostensibly should work.
Does this look about right?
regedit setval SysConfig/Tweak/DisableSoftwareDownload 1
I feel like I'm missing a keyname in there. Other commands look like:
regedit setval <Path> <Keyname> <Boolean> and this one is just
regedit setval <Path> <Boolean>.
Clarification before full roll-out would be most appreciated. Thanks.
EDIT: I should mention that I've been through the Molehill site and I don't see mention of an appropriate keyname.
regedit setstr SysConfig/Tweak DisableSoftwareDownload "TRUE"
This may or may not work. Use at your own risk! YMMV.
It's a value not a string and you want it set to 1 to disable the check.
Conspiracy was right, at least that's worked for me and I've been able to disable the pending update with this method on my 5k box.
Software/Apps/Setup AllowSysUpdate seems to have no affect on anything.
So Jeff, I take it that would be:
regedit setval SysConfig/Tweak/DisableSoftwareDownload 1
NOT
regedit setval SysConfig/Tweak DisableSoftwareDownload 1
Twiki seems to indicate the first one is the right one.
Bigjohns
08-19-04, 07:05 AM
Originally posted by moyekj
So Jeff, I take it that would be:
regedit setval SysConfig/Tweak/DisableSoftwareDownload 1
NOT
regedit setval SysConfig/Tweak DisableSoftwareDownload 1
Twiki seems to indicate the first one is the right one.
How does one do this process? I have a 5040 basically virgin hard disk here, and a 5504 that's about to land via the Fed X guy....
John
Originally posted by johnmagee4
So is it official... there is no current way around this? Or is it strictly on the QT... the hush hush... etc.? :)
My theory is that NBC paid them to remove it during the Olympics. There's a commercial every 3 minutes, then 3 minutes of someone's life story, and then 30 seconds of event time... rinse and repeat.
So if they could sneak this past the experts in this forum any chance they might try something similiar and disable dva streaming.
That would be pretty stupid, but I've seen a lot of stupid stuff happending lately.
Question: I would think if you droped an image on the 5504 it would restore ca until the next software push.
Originally posted by Jeff D
I've been able to disable the pending update with this method on my 5k box. Allow me to play devil's advocate here for a minute: it appears that DNNA is now checking the serial number at net connect time and disabling CA and IVS on 55XX machines if those features are enabled. I would guess there's also some sort of software version check at net connect time as well, so their server knows whether to push a software version to a given machine or not. IIRC, there's some language in the user agreement that the software cannot be altered or reverse engineered. So what's to stop DNNA from no longer providing service to a machine that has been altered to not accept a software update?
richierich
08-19-04, 09:10 AM
First pure speculation, then more speculation. If the WiRNS trick isn't turning CA back on even for a short period of time, then I suspect that the software is no longer checking the registry value to determine if CA should be on or not. I would imagine that they check the serial number instead. You can't fiddle with the serial number (at least not in an easy way--anything is possible I suppose) so this would make the CA issue for 55XX machines set in stone.
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't WiRNS already able to filter communications between ReplayTV and mothership? Couldn't WiRNS simply tell the mothership that you already have the latest software so it doesn't send it down the pipe? In this way, the DNNA server wouldn't know that the machine wasn't running the latest software. No modification issue to worry about because as far as they are concerned, you are up-to-date.
I think odds of losing DVArchive capability are remote at best. First of all, there has never been a hint of legal issues with the in-home video sharing which is what DVArchive is taking advantage of. Second, DVArchive has to be considered a selling point by DNNA. They aren't likely to just up and decide to abandon a strong feature that costs DNNA nothing to maintain and improve.
And that's my gems for the day ;-)
Richard
Originally posted by richierich
First pure speculation, then more speculation. If the WiRNS trick isn't turning CA back on even for a short period of time, then I suspect that the software is no longer checking the registry value to determine if CA should be on or not. I would imagine that they check the serial number instead. You can't fiddle with the serial number (at least not in an easy way--anything is possible I suppose) so this would make the CA issue for 55XX machines set in stone.
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't WiRNS already able to filter communications between ReplayTV and mothership? Couldn't WiRNS simply tell the mothership that you already have the latest software so it doesn't send it down the pipe? In this way, the DNNA server wouldn't know that the machine wasn't running the latest software. No modification issue to worry about because as far as they are concerned, you are up-to-date.
I think odds of losing DVArchive capability are remote at best. First of all, there has never been a hint of legal issues with the in-home video sharing which is what DVArchive is taking advantage of. Second, DVArchive has to be considered a selling point by DNNA. They aren't likely to just up and decide to abandon a strong feature that costs DNNA nothing to maintain and improve.
And that's my gems for the day ;-)
Richard
I think the vast majority of replaytv users do not use dva. And I hope your right but it seems to me all they would need to do is change the guideparser and thats all she wrote.
On the other hand, tivo is starting to offer similar features (and Ivs) so they could potentially harm themselves.
I don't care too much about ca but I'd hate to lose dva streaming. The impact for me is I would probably go to windows mce before I considered Tivo.
DarkScreen
08-19-04, 10:11 AM
Richierich said:
Couldn't WiRNS simply tell the mothership that you already have the latest software
Richierich has some good points. Sounds like Conspiracy (message #72) and JeffD (#74) have already successfully tried the "leave me alone, my software's ok" tactic.
This may be a somewhat fragile stopgap solution. Here's why:
Through no evil intent of DNNA, it's possible that they may have made changes to this latest version of the software (or future ones) that will handle mothership guide and other information transfers, protocols, and processing differently. A legitimate reason for this would be to make their guide database more compatible with their new/future line of products or maybe just to add features or improve the service.
If the mothership starts sending out this newly structured data and they get confirmation from an RTV that it's software is up-to-date (and therefore compatible), then there could be serious data corruption issues. Analogous to saying, "Sure. Go ahead. My engine's been modified. Fill 'er up with diesel."
Under this speculative scenario, it may be more likely that the DNNA server actually reads the software version from the RTV before sending out the new style of data. In this case, their server might try to force a software update (even if DisableSoftwareDownload 1 set the registry to report that it's already up-to-date), not initiate the data transfer (so why is the schedule on my RTV not updating?), or display an error message. I'm actually a little surprised that they don't already read the actual software version in the unit (vs looking at the registry) to determine if an update is required.
Progress thru paranoia!
Originally posted by Jeff D
It's a value not a string and you want it set to 1 to disable the check.
Okay, I had just guessed that it was a TRUE/FALSE string based on some of the other regedit entries. When an entry doesn't already exist in the registry by default, it is hard to tell (without trying it) whether it should be created as a 0/1 value or T/F string. ReplayTV uses both in the registry, seemingly without rhyme or reason. Doesn't make a lot of sense if you ask me, but that's the way it is.
Originally posted by moyekj
So Jeff, I take it that would be:
regedit setval SysConfig/Tweak/DisableSoftwareDownload 1
NOT
regedit setval SysConfig/Tweak DisableSoftwareDownload 1
Twiki seems to indicate the first one is the right one.
No,
regedit setval SysConfig/Tweak DisableSoftwareDownload 1
is the correct format. See my previous post as to why it takes a wild guess sometimes to determine whether the entry requires setval 0/1 or setstr TRUE/FALSE.
From the regedit usage info:
Usage: regedit show "keyname"
regedit showall "keyname"
regedit create "keyname"
regedit delete "keyname" [valuename]
regedit setstr "keyname" "valuename" "string"
regedit setval "keyname" "valuename" value
regedit save "keyname" "filename"
regedit load "keyname" "filename"
regedit init
regedit flush
Originally posted by richierich
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't WiRNS already able to filter communications between ReplayTV and mothership? Couldn't WiRNS simply tell the mothership that you already have the latest software so it doesn't send it down the pipe? In this way, the DNNA server wouldn't know that the machine wasn't running the latest software. No modification issue to worry about because as far as they are concerned, you are up-to-date.
There was a NoSoftwareUpdate.dll plugin for WiRNS 0.7, but I do not believe that kjac has updated it for 1.x yet.
TheDreamer
08-19-04, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by DarkScreen
Through no evil intent of DNNA, it's possible that they may have made changes to this latest version of the software (or future ones) that will handle mothership guide and other information transfers, protocols, and processing differently. A legitimate reason for this would be to make their guide database more compatible with their new/future line of products or maybe just to add features or improve the service.
If the mothership starts sending out this newly structured data and they get confirmation from an RTV that it's software is up-to-date (and therefore compatible), then there could be serious data corruption issues. Analogous to saying, "Sure. Go ahead. My engine's been modified. Fill 'er up with diesel."
Under this speculative scenario, it may be more likely that the DNNA server actually reads the software version from the RTV before sending out the new style of data. In this case, their server might try to force a software update (even if DisableSoftwareDownload 1 set the registry to report that it's already up-to-date), not initiate the data transfer (so why is the schedule on my RTV not updating?), or display an error message. I'm actually a little surprised that they don't already read the actual software version in the unit (vs looking at the registry) to determine if an update is required.
Progress thru paranoia!
While DNNA could do this...it is unlikely that this is happening currently....if they did, it would likely be a bigger software release than just a new 5.1 version for 5000 & 5500 owners.
Plus there are those people that want software updates, but for whatever reason...their box won't update. I had a box that had trouble taking updates....found out later when I was trying to upgrade it...that there were disk errors in the system partition (don't know about the rest...wasn't any point in trying to preserve the MPEG partition...)
Now hopefully, it'll update...I want the CC fix.
Strange that I didn't encounter disk errors on the other boxes, each came from a different online site. The one with problems...I picked up from Radio Shack. I'm sure how I bought it doesn't have anything to do with it though :D
The Dreamer.
Though they did make changes in 5.0/5.1 that weren't compatible with older software versions on 5000's....but the 5.0 ReplayGuide could cope with 4.5 units.
adone36
08-19-04, 12:16 PM
Anyone who has a Bld 143 image has the Holy Grail for 55xx owners, at least for the forseeable future.
Bigjohns
08-19-04, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by adone36
Anyone who has a Bld 143 image has the Holy Grail for 55xx owners, at least for the forseeable future.
how? why? more data please.
Tony is onto something. This has been my thinking too.
As for what dreamer said about the version numbering I think this is pretty true too. I suspect that the replay software is doing what it always has. The difference is on the server side as such theres no need to change any replay software and not a larger change.
moyekj, j.m. gave you the info. The way I look at it is...
regedit cmd grouping tag value
where cmd, grouping, tag and value are alll seperated by a space. Grouping is to tell regedit where to place the tag in the files.
At the current moment I have one box that has gone from build 19 (140) to 144 all my other boxes are still at the old software. I've been disconnecting the ethernet cables until I find a better solution. =)
adone36
08-19-04, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by Bigjohns
how? why? more data please.
Since we have reports on 143 and 144 here and on Planet Replay, it looks like the only difference in 144 is the 55xx whammy.
Originally posted by Jeff D
At the current moment I have one box that has gone from build 19 (140) to 144 all my other boxes are still at the old software. I've been disconnecting the ethernet cables until I find a better solution. =) Now you have me confused... maybe I just haven't got enough sleep lately. I thought you had verified that enabling DisableSoftwareDownload would prevent a software update? Or is the problem that the setting is not sticky and is reset by the mothership (which doesn't make much sense as it makes the setting useless)?
Originally posted by moyekj
Now you have me confused... maybe I just haven't got enough sleep lately. I thought you had verified that enabling DisableSoftwareDownload would prevent a software update? Or is the problem that the setting is not sticky and is reset by the mothership (which doesn't make much sense as it makes the setting useless)?
I think it is just a matter of 100% guaranteed to work vs "it's software"
and can change in the future.
Originally posted by Jeff D
At the current moment I have one box that has gone from build 19 (140) to 144 all my other boxes are still at the old software. I've been disconnecting the ethernet cables until I find a better solution. =)
I'm confused. I thought you had verified that setting DisableSoftwareDownload 1 does prevent the upgrade?
[EDIT - Oops, moyekj beat me to it.]
Conspiracy
08-19-04, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by j.m.
There was a NoSoftwareUpdate.dll plugin for WiRNS 0.7, but I do not believe that kjac has updated it for 1.x yet.
Couldn't we just use GetShellCommands.dll and put regedit commands in the shellcommands file?
Originally posted by Conspiracy
Couldn't we just use GetShellCommands.dll and put regedit commands in the shellcommands file?
For the DisableSoftwareDownload regedit value, yes. However, I'm still not clear on whether a) it actually works 100% and b) it will continue to do so. The WiRNS plugin completely blocks/hijacks the ReplayTV's actual request to check for new software, which should work even if DisableSoftwareDownload isn't effective.
Originally posted by j.m.
The WiRNS plugin completely blocks/hijacks the ReplayTV's actual request to check for new software, which should work even if DisableSoftwareDownload isn't effective. However the downside of that method is you have to PERMANENTLY keep Wirns proxy running 24/7 and point the RTV DNS at the Wirns server.
The problem with staying with older software, even if it works now, is that the handshaking mechanism could be changed at any time on DNNA side once they assume all relevant units have received the software update to handle the new handshaking. It looks like this may be the start of a real need to completely take DNNA servers out of the picture for activation check, guide & clock updates, etc.
TheDreamer
08-19-04, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by adone36
Since we have reports on 143 and 144 here and on Planet Replay, it looks like the only difference in 144 is the 55xx whammy.
Are there confirmed reports of 143 on 5500's?
All I recall was somebody saying they had gotten 143 and wanted to know what was new in it.
The Dreamer
What if you hexedited the the 144 to 143 so the server would think you had the appropriate version
Originally posted by icecow
What if you hexedited the the 144 to 143 so the server would think you had the appropriate version
I sure hope you are joking because there's none to no chance this would work.
Originally posted by Jeff D
I sure hope you are joking because there's none to no chance this would work.
I'm guilty of not following the thread. It seemed simple enough
DarkScreen
08-19-04, 04:30 PM
Even if build 143 can be locked in and preserved, it would seem like a better solution to figure out how to get wirns to restore the CA and IVS functionality on the 144 build (and maybe all over again for future updates). (Easy for me to say, since I don't have a clue as to what's actually involved in doing this).
Clearly this is self-serving (since I was an early double victim of the 144 plague). Nonetheless, there are undoubtedly many others like me who would like to get CA and/or IVS back, but don't want to go through the efforts to archive their shows, yank out their HDDs, load on a 143 image, wirns off software updating, and then lose the 144 (and future) software enhancements. Not to mention that this procedure is still in the early test/verify stage and may have unforseen problems.
Since my original post two days ago, you guys have really soured me to the re-imaging approach and made me a wirns convert. I, and I'm sure hordes of others, really appreciate the efforts many of you are making to solve this latest puzzle.
TheDreamer
08-19-04, 04:44 PM
Originally posted by moyekj
However the downside of that method is you have to PERMANENTLY keep Wirns proxy running 24/7 and point the RTV DNS at the Wirns server.
Well, people that use WiRNS for guide data would already be doing this....so it isn't that much of a downside....plus wasn't that the 'official' purpose for WiRNS? ;)
I use WiRNS for guide data (for OTA HDTV) and only this.....
The Dreamer.
As for the hexedit comment: Well, IIRC the ReplayTV knows what version it is running and checks at every net connect what the latest available version is...and then downloads if it finds a newer version available.
Though I don't know why I'm getting so involved....DNNA has just increased the potential resale value of all my ReplayTVs :D Though you'll have to pry them out of my cold dead hands....wonder if I should update my will .... ;)
Bigjohns
08-19-04, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by Conspiracy
Couldn't we just use GetShellCommands.dll and put regedit commands in the shellcommands file?
Ok.
I'm not a replay newbie, nor am I computer illiterate. I have had Wirns running for some time, but had no need for "get shell commands".
I just added a 5504 to my network. It still has 190 software.
So, if someone would be so kind as to tell me:
1 - how to use GetShellCommands and;
2 - how to put the regedit into getshellcommands as conspiracy notes here
I would be glad to be the guineapig.
John
Bigjohns, all the info you need is available in j.m. signature. This sums things up very concisely:
http://s95184944.onlinehome.us/GetShellCommands/README.TXT
Get the plugin here:
http://s95184944.onlinehome.us/GetShellCommands/GetShellCommands_v1.1.zip
Add to "shellcmds" file the following in addition to the other 2 entries:
regedit setval SysConfig/Tweak DisableSoftwareDownload 1
NOTE: Someone would need to setup a network sniffer and really monitor all interactions with DNNA server to see if this DisableSoftwareDownload indeed has any effect. If you have already set this entry and haven't received the software yet you won't know for another couple of weeks if it's really working when the new software rollout has really had time to reach most units - we all know from prior experience it takes a few weeks for a new software update to rollout to all users.
Originally posted by moyekj
However the downside of that method is you have to PERMANENTLY keep Wirns proxy running 24/7 and point the RTV DNS at the Wirns server.
The problem with staying with older software, even if it works now, is that the handshaking mechanism could be changed at any time on DNNA side once they assume all relevant units have received the software update to handle the new handshaking.
DejaVu, we discussed this here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3798245#post3798245
Though at the time neither of us felt DNNA had the energy to make more
OS changes.
Conspiracy
08-19-04, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by Bigjohns
I would be glad to be the guineapig.
John
Cool. Now if you we can get DarkScreen to be one as well we could get even faster feedback.
DarkScreen, if you have an old drive that you can put an old version of the Replay software on, you can then use GetShells to flip the DisableSoftwareDownload bit and then do a 'Check for new Software'. Since they've associated your S/N with the new software, your box should try and download the new one.
If it doesn't do it that's a good sign that flipping the bit alone worked.
Originally posted by sfhub
DejaVu, we discussed this here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3798245#post3798245 Yes I recall that discussion and agree with you, that's why I think ultimately the only sure way of preventing unwanted changes is to take DNNA servers out of the picture completely - but then that borders on taboo territory (because of activation checks) and the whole El Gammal issue. I guess a few RTV engineers are keeping busy still :) (though with wrong priorities from our perspective).
DarkScreen
08-19-04, 06:00 PM
DarkScreen, if you have an old drive that you can put an old version of the Replay software on, you can then use GetShells to flip the DisableSoftwareDownload bit and then do a 'Check for new Software'. Since they've associated your S/N with the new software, your box should try and download the new one.
The experiment that Conspiracy suggests sounds like an interesting one to try. My largest available drive is a whopping 1GB, which, even if it was recognized by the RTV, may mask or cause other unrelated problems.
I'm still not convinced that DisableSoftwareDownload is the best tactic to take. Seems like a stopgap measure until the experts can figure out how to put CA and IVS back into 55xx machines running the new software.
I guess disabling the new software download makes more sense if it turns out that the gurus either aren't able to get CA and IVS to work on 144 builds or it takes them a long time to get there.
Originally posted by DarkScreen
I'm still not convinced that DisableSoftwareDownload is the best tactic to take. Seems like a stopgap measure until the experts can figure out how to put CA and IVS back into 55xx machines running the new software.
I guess disabling the new software download makes more sense if it turns out that the gurus either aren't able to get CA and IVS to work on 144 builds or it takes them a long time to get there.
My gut feeling is that this one isn't going to have an easy solution. I think we will find something, but it is most likely going to be inconvenient in that it will require running WiRNS 24/7 and/or downgrading to a build prior to 144.
clambert11
08-19-04, 06:24 PM
The worst part is, I'm sure the RTV Engineers are reading this thread and getting a kick out of it. :( It's a game of cat & mouse now!
mhargr03
08-19-04, 06:27 PM
Originally posted by clambert11
The worst part is, I'm sure the RTV Engineers are reading this thread and getting a kick out of it. :( It's a game of cat & mouse now! Who knows how many of them (if there even exist that many) lurk around here and see what we are doing with their machines and software :)
Conspiracy
08-19-04, 06:28 PM
I imagine the engineers are pissed. I presume they don't like their hard work and innovations being ripped out of the product. I further imagine that DNNA would prefer the status quo. This has lawyers written all over it.
Originally posted by Conspiracy
I imagine the engineers are pissed. I presume they don't like their hard work and innovations being ripped out of the product. I further imagine that DNNA would prefer the status quo. This has lawyers written all over it.
Or maybe it was just an attempt to patch the software to finally get updates to those folks with units that just fail to load the updates.
Ca doesn't bother me that much, if they go after dva streaming than I may dump my replay units. Of course as backup both units are hooked to dvd recorders with nice harddrives.
Not as convient but it works.
Originally posted by Conspiracy
I imagine the engineers are pissed. I presume they don't like their hard work and innovations being ripped out of the product.
In the year since the 55xx was introduced and through various layoffs I'm
sure they are over it by now.
Bigjohns
08-19-04, 08:13 PM
Will having GetShellCommands runnign with the parameters discussed have a negative impact on 5040 machines on the same network as a 5504?
OH - and where do you set your IVS unit name again?
Originally posted by Bigjohns
Will having GetShellCommands runnign with the parameters discussed have a negative impact on 5040 machines on the same network as a 5504?
OH - and where do you set your IVS unit name again? Unless you change the DNS on the 5040 machines AND force a net connect for them they won't even go through the Wirns proxy so no worries there. Obviously one impact if you were to point the 5040 machines at the Wirns server is they would also theoretically not accept software updates.
cosmicg
08-19-04, 08:58 PM
I've got a 5504 running version 530511410. I'm not sure what build that is (how do I tell?) but I do believe it has the CC fix, as it was pushed to me specifically for that purpose (I never agreed to any sort of NDA). I do have CA and IVS enabled, and am in no danger of my software being, um, downgraded as it is not currently hooked up to a network. If I can be of any help, let me know.
cosmicg
Originally posted by cosmicg
I've got a 5504 running version 530511410. I'm not sure what build that is (how do I tell?) but I do believe it has the CC fix, as it was pushed to me specifically for that purpose (I never agreed to any sort of NDA). I do have CA and IVS enabled, and am in no danger of my software being, um, downgraded as it is not currently hooked up to a network. If I can be of any help, let me know.
cosmicg Very interesting... if you could pull your drive and make a copy of the image on it there would be many grateful souls in this forum. It would be interesting to examine the contents of the image to find out how it's different than those with same software rev but CA/IVS disabled. But before that while you are watching a program press 411 Zones and confirm that the software version you have is indeed 530511410 and let us know the date accompanying that version.
Bigjohns
08-19-04, 09:17 PM
Originally posted by moyekj
Unless you change the DNS on the 5040 machines AND force a net connect for them they won't even go through the Wirns proxy so no worries there. Obviously one impact if you were to point the 5040 machines at the Wirns server is they would also theoretically not accept software updates.
That's what I'm asking - because I've been using wirns for months now for my guide updates...
John
cosmicg
08-19-04, 09:21 PM
It is version 530511410 (not 530511440, which I believe is the newest one) and was built on March 2. This software was released to my Replay to fix CC problems, I don't know what the differences are between it and 530511440 (again, I never received or agreed to any sort of NDA). I'd be happy to pull the drive, but I want to make sure this would be useful, as it is not the newest version.
cosmicg
Oh never mind then - if it's not the latest then it's likely you will be eventually be "upgraded" to the latest and lose CA/IVS. I'm too dislexic to distinguish between 530511410 and 530511440 without paying close attention to detail. Dropping all but the last 3 digits makes it much more obvious.
cosmicg
08-19-04, 09:44 PM
Yeah, I was just thinking that since it's a beta build, which has at least some of the cc fix, if somebody figures out how to prevent upgrades (the registry setting, if it worked for example), an image would allow people to use cc and keep their CA and IVS.
A quick question, 411 zones told me that my PCB serial number is missing, is that normal
cosmicg
Originally posted by cosmicg
A quick question, 411 zones told me that my PCB serial number is missing, is that normal
cosmicg Yes.
My wife tells me my lifetime activated 5504 that I picked up off of EBay just arrived today. When I get home from work and start working on hooking it up, anything interesting I should experiment with? Should I setup wirns right away and prevent net-connects? See what version of the OS it has first? I've got a guinea pig here now....just LMK.
I found this quote in an old post from JTL when asked how to prevent software updates:
For the bulk of the upgrade, the 'firmware hardware' that matters is also known as the 'hard drive'. Write protecting it would probably keep the upgrade from going through, yeah, but has some other side effects.
other mehods (didn't I just post this?) would be to set the SysConfig/Tweak/DisableSoftwareDownload registry entry to '1', and live with the daily reboots; to disconnect the thing from the network; to firewall off production-{1,2,backup}.replaytv.net; to use a smart proxy that lies about the results of getsw2.pl requests...
adone36
08-20-04, 12:03 AM
Originally posted by cosmicg
It is version 530511410 (not 530511440, which I believe is the newest one) and was built on March 2. This software was released to my Replay to fix CC problems, I don't know what the differences are between it and 530511440 (again, I never received or agreed to any sort of NDA). I'd be happy to pull the drive, but I want to make sure this would be useful, as it is not the newest version.
cosmicg
So the question is, does cc work on your machine? I'm pretty sure in talking to a Replayer in a chatroom who complained to DNNA about cc, that he had gotten 143 and cc worked all the time. I wasn't particularly interested because I never use it, but could finally recommend 5ks to people who needed it. If cc works for you I would definitely clone the drive and save the image before 144 is pushed to your machine.
bkushner
08-20-04, 03:53 AM
Is there a way to transfer shows from my 55 to my 50 so they can still be shared via IVS? I know about loop back routers, etc but that isn't the problem, as you know if I use IVS to transfer betwee units the transferrable shows aren't sharable?
WIll there ever be a way to share from DVARCHIVE?
Brian
Originally posted by bkushner
Is there a way to transfer shows from my 55 to my 50 so they can still be shared via IVS? I know about loop back routers, etc but that isn't the problem, as you know if I use IVS to transfer betwee units the transferrable shows aren't sharable?
You could swap the drives. ;)
WIll there ever be a way to share from DVARCHIVE?
Nope. It is not the purpose the author has intended for it, and he has made it clear he will close any loopholes that allow DVA to share if they are introduced/found.
To qoute one of my favorite arthors.. Don't Panic..
Has anyone approached DNNA to see if this was the intent of the upgrade, or was it unitentional.
Quite frankly I'm not sure I agree with what you folks are doing it just makes a better case for those in our goverment who support draconian measures like the induce act.
I have 5500 boxes, I'm quite satisfied not having CA and IVS, if I wanted it I could easily find a 50xx on ebay.
What bothers me about this whole thing. Is that if its intentional DNNA put out a patch that intentionally made a major change to the operation of the device and did not publish that fact. It has always bothered me that they don't put out release notes.
Even the most draconian of companies let their customers know when they are going to put out an update to stop what they precieve of misuse of their equipment. After all most , replaytv included also have the terms of service agreement to back them up. If they can identify modified boxes they can simply refuse to provide service until the box allows an upgrade. This is what microsoft does with Live.
In fact there was a big controversy after Microsoft put out a patch to "fix" modified xboxes. This dnna seems to be just as controversal yet their seems to be a reluctance of folks to ask their replaytv contacts whats going on.
The interesting thing about the whole xbox issue, is you have a whole lot of folks who refuse to use Live and don't buy new ms games for fear of it "updating" their modified dashboards. Kind of hurts market share you would think. Go Playstation....
Another example is Gemstar ebook, which had the most dracononian policy ever, they did something similiar to keep people from putting their own content on the devices, people simply never updated and they went out of the market. In the end however, they made up for it in a surprisely noble way not only did they post one final update which openend the devices up but they freely posted the development tools.
With this Dnna situation, asking the question to your replaytv friends does not admit quilt. I really like to know whats happening on my network. If microsoft were to suddenly post a patch which locked any copied dvd's from running on xp I'd want to know about it weather I used copied dvd's or not. Thats why I keep my windows restore disks and backups available.
in conclusion there are some questions we need answered.
1) was this an intentional act or just simply an artifact of trying to fix something.
2) can we still trust DNNA, or is it time to look into TIVO or other devices.
Note to all you lawyers out there, its true companies have the right to do things like this, but its also true that they can not do it covertly. Oh by the way latest news is that Hatch is reconsidering his Induce act. wonder why.
TheDreamer
08-20-04, 07:49 AM
Well, it's probably of small consolation...but if you have multiple units...and want CA...you can have it if you have at least one 5000. If you stream from a 5500 to a 5000, the 5000 will do CA on the shows. There's S|N on 5500's...though if CA wasn't going to work on the show...S|N isn't that great either.
Doesn't help those that want IVS on a 5500 though.
The Dreamer.
TheDreamer
08-20-04, 07:53 AM
Originally posted by wg21
What bothers me about this whole thing. Is that if its intentional DNNA put out a patch that intentionally made a major change to the operation of the device and did not publish that fact. It has always bothered me that they don't put out release notes.
Its probably an intentional act that fixes a 'bug'...where they advertised that CA and IVS is not available in the 5500's...and now they are making sure it stays that way.
And, IIRC it is in the service agreement that they reserve the right to add and remove features at any time.
The Dreamer.
Originally posted by TheDreamer
Its probably an intentional act that fixes a 'bug'...where they advertised that CA and IVS is not available in the 5500's...and now they are making sure it stays that way.
And, IIRC it is in the service agreement that they reserve the right to add and remove features at any time.
The Dreamer.
Again.. too much speculation ask, it may be in the TOS but you have a right to know what they are doing.
Do you think the engineers are morans, they are aware of the mods being made, I work for a large software company, do you not think we know people pirate our software. We watch the forums, sometimes we learn things we never knew about the software.
If its a bug they should at least notify everyone that the bug is now "fixed".
I'm beginning to think that this was not intentional. Not at a time when DNNA is not offering anything new and TIVO got the go ahead to launch a bunch of new services.
I'm no Lawer but dispite the Orin Hatch's of the country we do have some rights.
bkushner
08-20-04, 08:26 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by dfjkl
[B]You could swap the drives. ;)
But if I take the drive from the 55 and put it in the 50 won't that essentialy get hammered on connection?
bkushner
08-20-04, 08:31 AM
Originally posted by TheDreamer
Well, it's probably of small consolation...but if you have multiple units...and want CA...you can have it if you have at least one 5000. If you stream from a 5500 to a 5000, the 5000 will do CA on the shows. There's S|N on 5500's...though if CA wasn't going to work on the show...S|N isn't that great either.
Doesn't help those that want IVS on a 5500 though.
The Dreamer.
This might be a stupid ? so forgive me but when streaming between units does it use any of your internet bandwith?
bkushner
08-20-04, 08:34 AM
Originally posted by TheDreamer
Well, it's probably of small consolation...but if you have multiple units...and want CA...you can have it if you have at least one 5000. If you stream from a 5500 to a 5000, the 5000 will do CA on the shows. There's S|N on 5500's...though if CA wasn't going to work on the show...S|N isn't that great either.
Doesn't help those that want IVS on a 5500 though.
The Dreamer.
If I want to get a 5000 unit just to stream from my 5500 will I need to activate the 5000 since I won't need guide or anything like that?
Originally posted by bkushner
If I want to get a 5000 unit just to stream from my 5500 will I need to activate the 5000 since I won't need guide or anything like that?
Streaming is so problematic I rarely do it, I usually put everything on a large networked drive. than I use either two light client.
d-link dsm320 media player or connected dvd player.
This also puts me in position for the day that I have to find something other than a replaytv to do the capturing.
To answer your other question, wether or not you use internet bandwidth depends how your router is configured.
If your going thru your local subnet no, if your routing through your ISP , it does.
richierich
08-20-04, 09:04 AM
Originally posted by wg21
Streaming is so problematic I rarely do it, I usually put everything on a large networked drive. than I use either two light client.
Streaming is problematic? I have been using it for years and, once I moved from 10 to 100 (guru that I am, I can't remember what the rest of the specification is other than to say 100 base T) I have had no problems streaming at all. I stream at least five days a week (to watch shows in my bedroom). How have you found streaming to be problematic?
Originally posted by wg21
To answer your other question, wether or not you use internet bandwidth depends how your router is configured. Streaming never goes out over the Internet, so it uses no Internet bandwidth. Streaming is entirely contained on the local LAN.
Originally posted by bkushner
If I want to get a 5000 unit just to stream from my 5500 will I need to activate the 5000 Any ReplayTV, other than 20XX, 30XX/ShowStopper and 40XX needs to be activated in order to use it for anything.
cephraim
08-20-04, 09:20 AM
Originally posted by l8er
Any ReplayTV, other than 20XX, 30XX/ShowStopper and 40XX needs to be activated in order to use it for anything.
So, a 40xx can be used as a secondary machine without activation?
Can it be selected from the main 55xx's "record on other RTV" menu?
Does it support CA?
Thanks,
Eph
TheDreamer
08-20-04, 10:04 AM
Originally posted by cephraim
So, a 40xx can be used as a secondary machine without activation?
Can it be selected from the main 55xx's "record on other RTV" menu?
A 40xx doesn't need activation, because they were sold as lifetime units.
network scheduling is only a feature in the software on 5xxx's...plus you can't stream between a 4xxx and a 5xxx.
The Dreamer
Bigjohns
08-20-04, 10:07 AM
Originally posted by cephraim
So, a 40xx can be used as a secondary machine without activation?
Can it be selected from the main 55xx's "record on other RTV" menu?
Does it support CA?
Thanks,
Eph
4k units were sold with lifetime.
They're not compatible with 5k units though.
bkushner
08-20-04, 10:14 AM
I take it that imaging a drive doesn't wipe out the units activation? I'd hate to lose $299
cephraim
08-20-04, 10:18 AM
Originally posted by Bigjohns
4k units were sold with lifetime.
They're not compatible with 5k units though.
What about 45xx units?
Originally posted by bkushner
I take it that imaging a drive doesn't wipe out the units activation? Acitvation is tied to the motherboard. Re-imaging may require a net connect to re-enable activation.
Originally posted by cephraim
What about 45xx units? 40XX/45XX are virtually identical hardware with the 45XX requiring activation (40XX had activation included). 40XX/45XX can stream but not to or from 50XX/55XX. 50XX/55XX are virtually identical hardware, with the 55XX line not containing CA or IVS. Both the 50XX and 55XX line require activation. (Although some 50XX ReplayTVs were sold with lifetime activation and DNNA has sold some 55XX as specials with lifetime activation.) 50XX/55XX can stream, but not to or from 40XX/45XX.
Originally posted by bkushner
I take it that imaging a drive doesn't wipe out the units activation? I'd hate to lose $299
If you image the drive using image from a different unit, the activation
usually become invalid until the next "net connect", when it adjusts itself
to the appropriate activation.
Originally posted by richierich
Streaming is problematic? I have been using it for years and, once I moved from 10 to 100 (guru that I am, I can't remember what the rest of the specification is other than to say 100 base T) I have had no problems streaming at all. I stream at least five days a week (to watch shows in my bedroom). How have you found streaming to be problematic?
I guess your lucky, because for me sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.
My other devices on the network don't seem to exhibit this behavoir.
Both replaytv units are 100 ethernet, I always record in medium or high, never bother with standard resolution.
Whats the big deal with CA, true it might be usefull but I don't think I would go to such extremes to get it. Although I rarely watch a program imeadiately after I record it, I have to many important things to do than watch tv.
TheDreamer
08-20-04, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by wg21
Do you think the engineers are morans, they are aware of the mods being made, I work for a large software company, do you not think we know people pirate our software. We watch the forums, sometimes we learn things we never knew about the software.
If its a bug they should at least notify everyone that the bug is now "fixed".
I'm beginning to think that this was not intentional. Not at a time when DNNA is not offering anything new and TIVO got the go ahead to launch a bunch of new services.
No I don't think the Engineers are morons....I'm an Engineer (got the PE to prove it). But, if the people at the top decide that it needs to be done...it'll get done....
We have this product, its runs on Unix, VMS and Windows....I tolded to port it to Linux (though at the time I wasn't in support of it, actually having to contribute bug fixes to the OS....and actually neither were the company execs...but my manager wanted it.)
Anyways...the Unix and VMS versions have license keys that are tied to the hardware. Whoever did the Windows port, opted not to implement this aspect (along with various other things). For the Linux port, everything that it does on Unix it does Linux....plus some extras...so the hardware check in the licensing code works as it should.
Suddenly users are screaming...they moved from Windows to Linux...and suddenly they are having problems because the keys are tied to the machine. No more buy for one machine and then freely change machines whenever they want to. I'm not sure how licensing works, its not my area....but its probably something to do with hardware class...like Oracle does.
So, there was some discussion about fixing this 'bug'....in the Windows version. At least, the bug reports to me about license keys work in the Linux version stopped coming in. Waiting for the flow of bug reports when keys don't work to start again (there's usually a flood after any major release...which we just did one recently)
Meanwhile, (still completely wild speculation) I think DNNA won't necessarily say that they fixed the CA/IVS 'bug' in 5500's...because this would require them to admit that there was a 'bug' in the first place for something they said they took out of the 5500's to avoid getting sued.
Though there will probably be an announcement at some point...perhaps a pause ad like the last time.... Which means it would be focused on whatever positive changes have been made....
The Dreamer.
Bigjohns
08-20-04, 10:51 AM
Back to the topic at hand....
I tried GetShellCommands and I must have done something wrong?
Here is the WIRNS output after I do a manual connect from my new 5504 with version 190 software:
[PLUGIN] GetShellCommands initialized.
[PROXY] URI: (http://production.replaytv.net/cgi-bin/2.0/getshellcmds.pl?version
=530510190&serial=RTV5504J3MA0239549&cstate=(PauseAds('Delay'N'1''Enabled'N'1'))
)
[PLUGIN] GetShellCommands using shellcmds from file.
[2004-08-20 10:41:07] Hijacking headend request, because we serve it locally.
[DNS] Spoofing response of 57 bytes
[DNS] Spoofing response of 59 bytes
[DNS] Spoofing response of 59 bytes
[DNS] Spoofing response of 57 bytes
[DNS] Spoofing response of 61 bytes
[PLUGIN] GetShellCommands initialized.
[PROXY] URI: (http://production.replaytv.net/cgi-bin/2.0/getshellcmds.pl?version
=530510190&serial=RTV5504J3MA0239549&cstate=(PauseAds('Delay'N'1''Enabled'N'1'))
)
[PLUGIN] GetShellCommands using shellcmds from file.
[2004-08-20 10:45:38] Hijacking headend request, because we serve it locally.
[DNS] Spoofing response of 57 bytes
[DNS] Spoofing response of 59 bytes
[DNS] Spoofing response of 59 bytes
Funky thing is, nothing seems different, even after a hard boot of the RTV...
Arrgh?
John
Originally posted by Bigjohns
Funky thing is, nothing seems different, even after a hard boot of the RTV... Do you have the text file shellcmds in the WiRNS.exe directory with the appropriate 2 lines of text in it?
Originally posted by TheDreamer
So, there was some discussion about fixing this 'bug'....in the Windows version. At least, the bug reports to me about license keys work in the Linux version stopped coming in. Waiting for the flow of bug reports when keys don't work to start again (there's usually a flood after any major release...which we just did one recently)
The Dreamer.
We do the same thing, we also put out a release document. It helps the qa folks focus on whats being fixed and gives our users some feedback on what was fixed.
Just wild speculation, but I think DNNa may of been trying to do two things, one being the problem some replaytv's have with getting updates, the other one being preparing to do software updates for devices other than the crop of current replays. They've already announced the new server that will use the replay guide, so I'm presuming it will require some kind of autoupdate.
If this is intentional the timing is really bad, with Tivo getting the green light to provide something like IVS.
This is actually a pretty reasonable change if you consider it in the context of getting ready to add new equipment which may have different os structure. checking a hardware SN rather than a registry entry.
However if DNNA is doing such hardhanded stuff, I've already started scooping out the ebay prices for the pioneer tivo/dvd-recorder combos, in my mind this is the only Tivo model worth considering.
Originally posted by bkushner
Is there a way to transfer shows from my 55 to my 50 so they can still be shared via IVS?
You can copy the OS and mpg partitions to new drive using rtvpatch
then place the copied drive in 50xx. The 50xx drive will correct the
activation upon new net connect and also download the latest OS,
which won't make a difference since it is 50xx.
gsulliva
08-20-04, 11:56 AM
This thread is getting mixed with other topics. I've used WiRNS to get CA on my 5504 with 530510190 and don't want the 530511440 upgrade.
Do you think we should started a dedicated thread to the topic?
Originally posted by Bigjohns
Funky thing is, nothing seems different, even after a hard boot of the RTV...
Bigjohns, you need the following 3 lines in shellcmds file:
regedit setval SysConfig/Tweak DisableSoftwareDownload 1
regedit setval SysConfig/DefaultPlayback CommercialSkipEnabled 1
regedit setval Software/Apps/Internet InternetEnabled 1
RChobby
08-20-04, 12:07 PM
I unplugged the network cable on my modded 5504 until the dust settles and I have some time to play with WiRNS. So far in this thread 2 users have reported the problem. Please report in if you have the new software and have lost CA and IVS. I guess I should pull the drive and image it as a backup. Does WiRNS and getshellcommands modify anything other than software on the hard disk?
Bigjohns
08-20-04, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by moyekj
Bigjohns, you need the following 3 lines in shellcmds file:
regedit setval SysConfig/Tweak DisableSoftwareDownload 1
regedit setval SysConfig/DefaultPlayback CommercialSkipEnabled 1
regedit setval Software/Apps/Internet InternetEnabled 1
DOH. See, I did... but NOTEPAD in it's infinite wisdom added the .txt...
I just fixed it, and all is well! (for now at least!).
John
TheDreamer
08-20-04, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by wg21
We do the same thing, we also put out a release document. It helps the qa folks focus on whats being fixed and gives our users some feedback on what was fixed.
I'm sure we provide a document to users that identifies what bug numbers have been fixed....but how much detail is given, I don't know. Though the customer problems/solutions database is available online for users to look through.
I keep getting reminded when I'm closing out bugs...that the information is available online to users...so it has to be clean and verbose.
Though I don't know what our QA people do....we do have a QA Notes section in the database...but I don't think they pay attention to it. I noticed they never copied the input files needed to test one of the major changes I put in....and apparently they ignore that the tests are failing because the input files are missing (could be partly because it doesn't score it as a failure in the overall results for the section). :rolleyes:
Originally posted by wg21
Just wild speculation, but I think DNNa may of been trying to do two things, one being the problem some replaytv's have with getting updates, the other one being preparing to do software updates for devices other than the crop of current replays. They've already announced the new server that will use the replay guide, so I'm presuming it will require some kind of autoupdate.
I wasn't aware of a new server....AFAIK it was a new client (the Denon Media Server) was going to use the same server that we use.
Originally posted by wg21
If this is intentional the timing is really bad, with Tivo getting the green light to provide something like IVS.
But, what Tivo has is nothing like our IVS....being far more restrictive and having FCC approval. I suspect that if DNNA were to submit how IVS is currently done to the FCC for approval, it would get rejected.
And, I hope that they don't try to make the current IVS into an approved Tivo-like system.....
The Dreamer.
clambert11
08-20-04, 12:40 PM
To be mad @ RTV for fixing any holes and not disclosing it seems somewhat unfair IMHO. Yeah, I'm bummed I may lose both CA & IVS. They are both features I use regularly with my 5504's. However, for reasons of their own, they decided to *try* and do something about it (I'm not giving up hope yet). I'm personally unclear as to why they would worry about it, but I'm sure they have a reason that suits them.
Do I feel they need to tell me what they are doing to the software? Not really. It's just my opinion of course. I didn't call them up and tell them I took advantage of a hole in their software to enable features I wasn't supposed 2 have. The way I see it, if you didn't enable those features in the first place, you would have been none the wiser after the update. I guess I'm playing devil's advocate for the bad guys, I dunno.
I'm hopeful that j.m. & co. will come up with something in the future that will re-enable these features should I happen to lose them (even if they're not right now). If not, oh well. Sh!t happens sometimes.
Originally posted by clambert11
To be mad @ RTV for fixing any holes and not disclosing it seems
Sorry if your pushing software to a device on my network I want to know what it is. be it to my cable box , my tv , my computer etc.
I don't want to schedule something, come home to a blank screen because the update you pushed to my box last night added macrovision copy protection.
Sorry, I am a software engineer, and that doesn't fly. You have a right to do it under your tos, thats ok, but you do something covertly like that and don't explain why even after the fact and I will go elsewhere (windows mce, tivo etc)
If you believe otherwise than you are part of the problem not the solution!!
Originally posted by bkushner
[QUOTE]Originally posted by dfjkl
[B]You could swap the drives. ;)
But if I take the drive from the 55 and put it in the 50 won't that essentialy get hammered on connection?
My understanding is that the features will be re-enabled for the 5000 after a net connect. Last I knew the software between the two boxes was still the same.
Originally posted by wg21
pushing software to a device on my network I want to know what it is. be it to my cable box.... The reality is cable companies and satellite providers push software updates to boxes and receivers on a regular basis. I don't recall ever being notified or anything being officially posted as to why there was an update or what its purpose was. I think no amount of whining is going to change that.
cephraim
08-20-04, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by RChobby
So far in this thread 2 users have reported the problem. Please report in if you have the new software and have lost CA and IVS.
I have the new software and lost CA and IVS.
Conspiracy
08-20-04, 02:04 PM
Is there anyone out that has lost CA and IVS due to the new software and willing and able (someone with a large enough spare drive) to do some testing?
Originally posted by l8er
The reality is cable companies and satellite providers push software updates to boxes and receivers on a regular basis. I don't recall ever being notified or anything being officially posted as to why there was an update or what its purpose was. I think no amount of whining is going to change that.
1) cable boxes , satelite boxes do not connect to my network.
2) changes in functionality or channel lineup are communicated .
3) Other changes are usually to parameters.
OH.. this is pointless , I don't even use CA or IVS.
I know sfhub touched on this, but it got me thinking.... I highly doubt this but... could DNNA be pushing TWO different updates to 5k and 5.5k boxes? This would be a first, but maybe there is actually a difference in the software that would keep these features from ever existing. Like I said before... odds are slim to none that they did this, but... it would be the safest way to be sure those features NEVER exist in the 5.5k box.
Anyone got a 5k 144 and a 5.5k 144? Or better yet etheral and two unupdated boxes? We could tell that way.
Personally I have 3 sure ways and one suspected technique to prevent the updates.
Originally posted by Jeff D
Personally I have 3 sure ways and one suspected technique to prevent the updates. I would hope these sure ways you refer to are not to unplug the ethernet connection on 3 of your units? :)
gsulliva
08-20-04, 02:34 PM
Well I was just playing with WiRNS to try to protect my unit, get some errors about object expections or Headers, etc. Not sure if it was an issue so I ran it again.
This is where it got interesting, at the end it said there was a new software update and it needed to restart my ReplayTV or select "exit" to keep using the replayTv. I clicked Exit and it seems to be working, not sure in WiRNS will stop the update now.
gsulliva, that means the new software is already downloaded to your RTV, so the software update prevention is probably too late, unless the flag also prevents already downloaded software from installing itself which is unlikely.
Originally posted by l8er
The reality is cable companies and satellite providers push software updates to boxes and receivers on a regular basis. I don't recall ever being notified or anything being officially posted as to why there was an update or what its purpose was. I think no amount of whining is going to change that.
It use to be that many of the sat boxes would query the user as to if they wanted the update. I believe now it's you'll get them all unless you hardware hacker your box.
Pushes aren't new been around for a long time. The trick is figuring out how to circumvent them if you want. And it usually involves hardware changes. There would be no hardware change for the replayTV, but it's still not an easy job for joe-six-pack.
gsulliva
08-20-04, 02:43 PM
Well I guess with Tivo getting IVS now and me losing it, I'll be puttin the ReplayTV on eBay and going with peer pressure to Tivo. Will be interesting to see how many 5504 show up on eBay next week, might be a fire sale.
Originally posted by moyekj
gsulliva, that means the new software is already downloaded to your RTV, so the software update prevention is probably too late, unless the flag also prevents already downloaded software from installing itself which is unlikely.
RChobby
08-20-04, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by gsulliva
Well I was just playing with WiRNS to try to protect my unit, get some errors about object expections or Headers, etc. Not sure if it was an issue so I ran it again.
This is where it got interesting, at the end it said there was a new software update and it needed to restart my ReplayTV or select "exit" to keep using the replayTv. I clicked Exit and it seems to be working, not sure in WiRNS will stop the update now.
I assume the update came across during the WiRNS forced net connect? If so, that method is out.
gsulliva
08-20-04, 02:47 PM
Yes
Originally posted by RChobby
I assume the update came across during the WiRNS forced net connect? If so, that method is out.
adone36
08-20-04, 02:51 PM
Originally posted by wg21
[B]What bothers me about this whole thing. Is that if its intentional DNNA put out a patch that intentionally made a major change to the operation of the device and did not publish that fact. It has always bothered me that they don't put out release notes.
They merely "fixed" a loophole in a feature de-activation that they made a LEGAL agreement to disable in lieu of further lawsuits. This may seem to be a crime to you but then you haven't been sued (as members here have) by companies with very deep pockets.
With this Dnna situation, asking the question to your replaytv friends does not admit quilt. I really like to know whats happening on my network. If microsoft were to suddenly post a patch which locked any copied dvd's from running on xp I'd want to know about it weather I used copied dvd's or not.
You must have cried when WMP 9 came out with all the DRM.
1) was this an intentional act or just simply an artifact of trying to fix something.
2) can we still trust DNNA, or is it time to look into TIVO or other devices.
What is so hard to understand? They knew people were circumventing the restrictions and they fixed it. You always bring up Tivo in your posts. I find this laughable considering the "problems" you have with DNNA with a machine that has a very open architecture (a real boon to its users) vs Tivo which is a very closed system. Tivo cannot do what Replay does even with the vaporware. And with the massive loses, who knows if the vaporware will ever come to pass.
What is so hard to understand is why people are so anxious to be apathetic. The "everyone else knows better than me attitude" is b.s. The effect of a few people re-enabling ca/ivs is miniscule.
Originally posted by adone36
They merely "fixed" a loophole in a feature de-activation that they made a LEGAL agreement to disable in lieu of further lawsuits.
While I do believe in my gut, there was some form of consultation to
remove features in exchange for dropping actions, I have never seen
anything publicly discussed which would indicate there was a LEGAL
agreement to do so, certainly not anything public.
Originally posted by gsulliva
Well I guess with Tivo getting IVS now You ought to check the facts. TiVo is not getting IVS. There is a crippled version of video sharing, but I would not call it IVS.
Originally posted by Jeff D
I know sfhub touched on this, but it got me thinking.... I highly doubt this but... could DNNA be pushing TWO different updates to 5k and 5.5k boxes? This would be a first, but maybe there is actually a difference in the software that would keep these features from ever existing. Like I said before... odds are slim to none that they did this, but... it would be the safest way to be sure those features NEVER exist in the 5.5k box.
I don't think I've ever suggested that DNNA would branch the OS build
to accomplish something which can be accomplished with a few "IF-THEN"
statements.
Though, I have suggested if they really wanted to, there are ways they
can get convince you to upgrade if you are of the mind to try to block the
upgrade. I have no idea if they would be willing to go to these lengths
(or whether they've done so already)
leesweet
08-20-04, 04:02 PM
As sfhub says, no rational software company (and I work for one, I think... :) ) would create two builds when a couple of short branches in one build would do the work. And I have a 5000 box with 144 and CA is fine. This definitely seems to be a 'make 5500s do what were supposed to do' issue.
I just took a look at the images links from the replay faq. How can these be gotten down to that small of a size. I took an image from my 5040 before I upgraded the drive, and the image is leaving a 500meg footprint on my DVA box. What do I need to do, what options do I choose, etc. in rtvpatch to get the image so small.
Thanks!
2) can we still trust DNNA, or is it time to look into TIVO or other devices.Be careful who you trust. It was TiVo, of course, that instructed all units in England to record a paid-advertisement.
clambert11
08-20-04, 04:30 PM
Originally posted by wg21
If you believe otherwise than you are part of the problem not the solution!!
If you're looking for an argument, you're not going to find it in this thread. The last thing that needs to happen is clogging this lengthy thread up with crap.
-- Craig
RChobby
08-20-04, 04:35 PM
So is there a way to flip the bit for "no download" without getting the software update during the WiRNS net connect?
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Oy&r=f
Originally posted by wg21
You have a right to do it under your tos, thats ok, So what part of this (from the manual, under "Software License Agreement") don't you understand?: You acknowledge and agree that DNNA may periodically update, modify
or enhance the Software remotely through the RTVS
clambert11
08-20-04, 05:08 PM
Originally posted by RChobby
So is there a way to flip the bit for "no download" without getting the software update during the WiRNS net connect?
There is an unconfirmed parameter that you can send using WiRNS that may prohibit a software download. I could be wrong, but it hasn't been confirmed to do what we are hoping it will. It doesn't seem like enough software downloads have occured yet to verify one way or the other. We're hoping it does the trick though.
Add the following to J.M.'s shellcmds for WiRNS:
regedit setval SysConfig/Tweak DisableSoftwareDownload 1
It was taken from Post #154 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4229106#post4229106) of this ongoing novel. ;)
Originally posted by clambert11
There is an unconfirmed parameter that you can send using WiRNS that may prohibit a software download. I could be wrong, but it hasn't been confirmed to do what we are hoping it will. It doesn't seem like enough software downloads have occured yet to verify one way or the other. We're hoping it does the trick though.
Add the following to J.M.'s shellcmds for WiRNS:
regedit setval SysConfig/Tweak DisableSoftwareDownload 1
It was taken from Post #154 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4229106#post4229106) of this ongoing novel. ;)
The problem, which RChobby is alluding to, is that if your units' SN is already in the group that can download the new software then the above won't help. You see, upon net connecting via WiRNS to set the above regedit value, the RTV will also download the new software because the regedit value won't take effect until at least the conclusion of the net connect (and perhaps only after a reboot). The solution for such unlucky people is to update the NoSoftwareUpdate.dll plugin for 1.x, which I will look into doing.
RChobby
08-20-04, 05:18 PM
Originally posted by clambert11
There is an unconfirmed parameter that you can send using WiRNS that may prohibit a software download. I could be wrong, but it hasn't been confirmed to do what we are hoping it will. It doesn't seem like enough software downloads have occured yet to verify one way or the other. We're hoping it does the trick though.
Add the following to J.M.'s shellcmds for WiRNS:
regedit setval SysConfig/Tweak DisableSoftwareDownload 1
It was taken from Post #154 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4229106#post4229106) of this ongoing novel. ;)
Yeah but someone earlier today got the updated software pushed to his replaytv during the WiRNS netconnect procedure. Is there a work-around to prevent that?
RChobby
08-20-04, 05:23 PM
Originally posted by j.m.
The problem, which RChobby is alluding to, is that if your units' SN is already in the group that can download the new software then the above won't help. You see, upon net connecting via WiRNS to set the above regedit value, the RTV will also download the new software because the regedit value won't take effect until at least the conclusion of the net connect (and perhaps only after a reboot). The solution for such unlucky people is to update the NoSoftwareUpdate.dll plugin for 1.x, which I will look into doing.
Are these bits we are flipping (with WiRNS) in non-volatile RAM on the motherboard, or just in the O.S.?
Originally posted by RChobby
So is there a way to flip the bit for "no download" without getting the software update during the WiRNS net connect? Unfortunately the shellcmds actions are effected AFTER a new software check during the net connect, so you may not prevent the software update from occuring while setting up Wirns to do exactly that. An easy change to Wirns 1.x could be made (and I believe was one of the plugins in the 0.7x release) to "fake" that portion of the transaction to prevent software download from happening. Of course this all may be a mute point as AFAIK we have no confirmation the now infamous registry setting actually has any effect on preventing a download in the first place. In any case, during the net connect targeted at Wirns with the shellcmds, watch the RTV messages closely, and if a new software download is initiated then just pull the plug on the ethernet right away and cancel the net connect then try again in a few minutes. If it's already too late and you have the new software you'll have to re-image the drive and try again.
Bigjohns
08-20-04, 05:26 PM
Originally posted by clambert11
There is an unconfirmed parameter that you can send using WiRNS that may prohibit a software download. I could be wrong, but it hasn't been confirmed to do what we are hoping it will. It doesn't seem like enough software downloads have occured yet to verify one way or the other. We're hoping it does the trick though.
Add the following to J.M.'s shellcmds for WiRNS:
regedit setval SysConfig/Tweak DisableSoftwareDownload 1
It was taken from Post #154 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4229106#post4229106) of this ongoing novel. ;)
I've got this running on my computer (wirns with shell commands) and my 5504 (just put on the network last night, but it's used so it probably is already in the database....)
But I've done 4 force net connects and it still shows 190 software.
Originally posted by RChobby
Are these bits we are flipping (with WiRNS) in non-volatile RAM on the motherboard, or just in the O.S.? They are software registry settings in files (on hard drive).
RChobby
08-20-04, 05:45 PM
Originally posted by Bigjohns
I've got this running on my computer (wirns with shell commands) and my 5504 (just put on the network last night, but it's used so it probably is already in the database....)
But I've done 4 force net connects and it still shows 190 software.
Big J you lucked out. I'm going to clone my h.d. before I do this, just to be on the safe side. Maybe I'll put in a larger disk at the same time and pack away the original for safe keeping.
gsulliva
08-20-04, 06:17 PM
Is there a way to confirm the settings on the unit? I know CA and ISV are easy but what about:
regedit setval SysConfig/Tweak DisableSoftwareDownload 1
Thanks
Conspiracy
08-20-04, 06:38 PM
Originally posted by j.m.
The solution for such unlucky people is to update the NoSoftwareUpdate.dll plugin for 1.x, which I will look into doing.
I started looking into this yesterday but I can't find any documentation on the plugin interface.
Originally posted by gsulliva
Is there a way to confirm the settings on the unit? I know CA and ISV are easy but what about:
regedit setval SysConfig/Tweak DisableSoftwareDownload 1
Thanks You can use the pvtio shell (through serial connection between a PC and the RTV) to query (and set) registry settings - see Twiki site for details. The shell itself can be enabled via Wirns shellcmds commands, but once the shell is enabled you then need to make a custom serial cable to connect PC to RTV serial port in order to access it.
Perhaps an easier way, if you have photo partition is to use the following shellcmds command (as j.m. detailed in another thread):
cp /name/system/user/Registry/ /name/storage/Photo/
The other way to confirm the setting is to make an image of the hard drive. Then it's just a question of looking for the right file with the setting. Either way, it's more effort than it's worth just to confirm a single registry setting that may not have any value.
Originally posted by Conspiracy
I started looking into this yesterday but I can't find any documentation on the plugin interface.
No need. It's done. It should prevent updates, but it is hard to test. :) Get it here (http://s95184944.onlinehome.us/NoSoftwareUpdate/NoSoftwareUpdate_v1.1.zip). Source code is included (required only minor changes from the old version for 0.7). This version should work with both WiRNS 0.7 and 1.x.
I recommend using this in conjunction with the regedit value and GetShellCommands as discussed above. Please post any successes or failures here.
RChobby
08-20-04, 06:52 PM
Originally posted by j.m.
No need. It's done. It should prevent updates, but it is hard to test. :) Get it here (http://s95184944.onlinehome.us/NoSoftwareUpdate/NoSoftwareUpdate_v1.1.zip). Source code is included (required only minor changes from the old version for 0.7). This version should work with both WiRNS 0.7 and 1.x.
I recommend using this in conjunction with the regedit value and GetShellCommands as discussed above. Please post any successes or failures here.
Thanks j.m.! This needs to be in the same folder as WiRNS, I assume.
Originally posted by RChobby
Thanks j.m.! This needs to be in the same folder as WiRNS, I assume.
plug-in directory
el borak
08-20-04, 08:08 PM
Originally posted by gsulliva
Well I guess with Tivo getting IVS now and me losing it, I'll be puttin the ReplayTV on eBay and going with peer pressure to Tivo. Will be interesting to see how many 5504 show up on eBay next week, might be a fire sale. I'm rather surprised how many people have 55xx's when 50xx availability has been virtually uninterrupted (unless you are paranoid about refurbs). You can get 5040's for $80 any day of the week, why buy a lesser box for more money?
mhargr03
08-20-04, 08:11 PM
Originally posted by el borak
I'm rather surprised how many people have 55xx's when 50xx availability has been virtually uninterrupted (unless you are paranoid about refurbs). You can get 5040's for $80 any day of the week, why buy a lesser box for more money? Good question indeed...I wonder how quickly those $79.99 refurbs will fly out the warehouse door now?
gsulliva
08-20-04, 08:14 PM
Need an expert to comment.
My unit say 530510190, so I did the WiRNS 0.7a run with the new command. Did my force connect, etc got some errors in the DOS window. P.S. I've used WiRNS before.
Ran again, this time it said new software was install and it needs to reboot. Press "Select" to continue or "exit" to not reboot. Pressed "EXIT"
Check my unit still says 530510190, so I unplugged it, power it down and back in to let it go through its startup.
STILL 530510190
Installed WiRNS 1.1.2b, added the plug-ins including the new NO SOFTWARE and did a force connect.
Once again it wants to reboot to apply new software but again I say to "EXIT". Still says 530510190.
QUESTION:
Wouldn't it apply the software after I unplugged it and plugged it back in?
If so did I successfully stop the new patch?
Originally posted by mhargr03
Good question indeed...I wonder how quickly those $79.99 refurbs will fly out the warehouse door now? During last sweepstakes you could get 5504 refurb for $350 (including activation) and free shipping, which makes it $50 without activation or about $30 cheaper than a 5040 refurb. Not saying it was necessarily a better deal than getting a 5040, just that it was cheaper if you go lifetime. That, the supposed quieter fan and the easy re-enabling of CA/IVS is what convinced me to go for it at the time.
Originally posted by gsulliva
QUESTION:
Wouldn't it apply the software after I unplugged it and plugged it back in?
If so did I successfully stop the new patch? The new software is already loaded on your machine so the Wirns trick was applied too late in your case. If you happen to be watching while it wants to reboot and apply new software you can stop it as you have, but eventually on next maintanence reboot it will apply the software itself. You would have to re-image the drive and apply the Wirns solution again before the software is downloaded at this point AFAIK. So you may as well let the new software install itself and then you can see if it does disable CA/IVS and go from there. My SPECULATION is that the registry setting should block new software downloads but won't prevent installation of software that was already downloaded.
gsulliva
08-20-04, 08:49 PM
Actually I decided to try one more force connect. This time it said I must reboot for new software (before anything else). So I gave in to the greater powers at ReplayTV.
Guess what, still 530510190
Originally posted by moyekj
The new software is already loaded on your machine so the Wirns trick was applied too late in your case. If you happen to be watching while it wants to reboot and apply new software you can stop it as you have, but eventually on next maintanence reboot it will apply the software itself. You would have to re-image the drive and apply the Wirns solution again before the software is downloaded at this point AFAIK. So you may as well let the new software install itself and then you can see if it does disable CA/IVS and go from there. My SPECULATION is that the registry setting should block new software downloads but won't prevent installation of software that was already downloaded.
Originally posted by gsulliva
Actually I decided to try one more force connect. This time it said I must reboot for new software (before anything else). So I gave in to the greater powers at ReplayTV.
Guess what, still 530510190 Interesting... so maybe the registry setting does prevent new installations as well as new software downloads - I can live with that.
I used the shellcmds and the plugin and it appears to prevent an upgrade. I did get some exceptions, but they may have to do with my config.
gsulliva
08-20-04, 10:41 PM
One more update ... each time my unit calls the mothership it reboots to apply the software which now does nothing.
I have an old 40 gig replay drive with 530510190 on it. Can I simple apply the system partition (using RTV PATCH) onto the new big drive without deleting my shows? What will be lost (scheduled recordings, etc)?
thanks
RChobby
08-21-04, 01:05 AM
I used WiRNS 0.7 with the no software update plugin and the no software update shell command on my 5504. I'm not sure if new software came across or not. At the end of the net connect it says the replay must restart in order to use new software, but the software build stays at 530510190. I guess this is no big deal? I don't know if it will reboot every night when it calls home, but I'll report back. Can an image from a 5040 with 530510190 be used in a 5504?
Below is a link to the full thread someone referred to in this thread a couple of pages ago. This is JTL (WAY BACK) talking about ways to prevent a software update. Notice the comment about nightly reboots (for every net connect) if the registry setting method is used. So it looks like once your RTV is targeted to receive the new software but you have the registry setting to prevent an update, the RTV will reboot as if it got new software but won't actually install it (since there's nothing to install). So looks this workaround has a pretty bad side-effect that will eventually affect anyone trying to use this method to prevent software updates.
http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=152819&highlight=getsw2.pl
Maybe that is actually a positive side effect. :)
It bypasses 2 problems, the DHCP IP problem and the won't reboot after
7 days problem (if the maintenance reboot doesn't occur after 7 days,
your unit stops net connecting)
RChobby
08-21-04, 11:03 AM
I don't know if my replay was targeted or not for the update. When I first used WiRNS with the getshellcommand plugin (months ago) I recall it needed a reboot after net connect. I'll do a 411 zones inquiry every day for a while and see what it does.
Thanks, moyekj. That posting helped solve it for me.
I too got the message about installing new software. I was disappointed but, I reluctantly went through the process. I too was happy to see the result was that the software didn't bump to 144. Not sure why that happened, but it did. I was screwing around with a bunch of stuff in the shell, I figured I had done something that triggered the new software install message.
In case anyone cares.... for future reference, LiveVCR Quaility setting doesn't do anything.
RChobby
08-21-04, 02:02 PM
I need to ask this again........
Can an image from a 5040 (with 530510190) be used in a 5504?
I assume so, but would like some confirmation before I do it.
Thanks in advance!
Originally posted by Jeff D
In case anyone cares.... for future reference, LiveVCR Quaility setting doesn't do anything. How did you test that? Mine is "HIGH", the default I support, and I was thinking of changing it to "LOW" (aka standard), on the assumpton that it would increase my pause time.
(I use standard for all my recordings, as they are all broadcast TV anyway).
Originally posted by RChobby
Can an image from a 5040 (with 530510190) be used in a 5504?
Oy.
Originally posted by RChobby
I need to ask this again........
Can an image from a 5040 (with 530510190) be used in a 5504?
I assume so, but would like some confirmation before I do it.
Thanks in advance! Of course. This was the software version we have been using on 55xx for a while now until this latest relase.
bkushner
08-21-04, 04:43 PM
Originally posted by moyekj
Of course. This was the software version we have been using on 55xx for a while now until this latest relase.
Won't imaging the 55 with the 50 still work with the new software release?
Brian
Originally posted by bkushner
Won't imaging the 55 with the 50 still work with the new software release?
Brian
Again, the software for the 50xx and 55xx is exactly the same. Only a few of the default configuration settings differ--i.e. those for CA and IVS. In the past, one could change these settings on a 55xx in order to enable CA and IVS (either via imaging with a 50xx image that has the settings enabled or using WiRNS + GSC to flip them). It appears that with build 144 the software ignores those settings when it is running on a 55xx unit and simply always disables CA and IVS there (the 50xx remains unaffected, however).
So, yes, imaging a 55xx with 50xx software will still work with build 144, as it is the same software. However, unlike with previous software builds, this will NOT enable CA and IVS on a 55xx because b144 now seemingly detects it is running on a 55xx, ignores the CA and IVS settings, and just always disables the features.
waynesbrojohn
08-21-04, 05:41 PM
Thank goodness for DVArchive and it's ability to mimic the delete show function on my newly "downgraded" REPLAY unit. If it weren't for this program, I don;t know how anyone would be able to recover the disk space that was used by any "received" programs at the time of the update. I know that my unit showed less available hours... now that DVArchive saved the day, I have the full disk available again.
Which raises another question... How many of the people who got updated were also Poopli users? I was one... I had downloaded the entire mini series called The Grid... and after the update they stayed on the rtv disk. DVArchive showed them in the received category, but of course with the update... the "Received" category was gone, and I suppose any ability to have deleted the shows.. the onlly evidence as I say, was the fact that I had fewer hours available to record than what showed if you added up the recorded programs. Thank you Gerry!
I suspect that if Poopli wasn't so popular and effective, the need to make the update happen would have been WAY DOWN on the list of activites for the REPLAY owners.... I can live without the IVS feature just fine... I did however, love the WIRns CA feature. Again, what another fabulous program that underscores the functionality and viability of the REPALY units.
Now... I have a Sonic Blue unit that was unaffected entirely... and ... I have a 5504 that I took ofline for a few weeks to do some video editting with.... it has not been affected by an updgrade yet, since it is still not connected to the Ethernet Network. Any suggestions as to how I should proceed from the experts? I know if I plug it in it will get "the enhancement". Perhaps my brother (who owns more than my measly 3 units) might have a similar situation, since he seems to have one in his van at most times.
Regards,
John
OK...today I got my 5504 that I had picked up off of EBay. Last night I got all the wirns stuff setup, hoping to force my replay to connect through it. Only to find even though it asks me for network settings in the setup (after I factory reset it), it still used my dhcp settings to connect to the mothership. When I got it all up and running, I took a look at the software revision. It is running 530511400. At a glance, I was thinking I was screwed. Until I pulled up this thread again and saw the version that is killing everyone is a little "newer." This version of the software is built on "Dec. 9 2003."
As soon as I could, I made sure the box went through wirns, but it gave me an error on net connect (forget now). Changed primary DNS to normal, connected again, it did some housekeeping (maybe checking activation, etc) with replay, and was happy. Changed settings back to wirns, it updated it's guide, everything through wirns, and I also had the 3 shellcmds listed earlier set to be added to the replay (deny software updated, IVS enable, and CA enable). I'm happy to say I have a 5504 with CA and IVS now, functioning through wirns, and hopefully free from update until someone figures out what the heck is going on.
clambert11
08-21-04, 10:32 PM
Originally posted by dfjkl
OK...today I got my 5504 that I had picked up off of EBay. Last night I got all the wirns stuff setup, hoping to force my replay to connect through it. Only to find even though it asks me for network settings in the setup (after I factory reset it), it still used my dhcp settings to connect to the mothership. When I got it all up and running, I took a look at the software revision. It is running 530511400. At a glance, I was thinking I was screwed. Until I pulled up this thread again and saw the version that is killing everyone is a little "newer." This version of the software is built on "Dec. 9 2003."
Yeah, one of my machines has that build in it also. It's a refurb I got as a warranty replacement several months back.
The other 5504 I bought @ the same time still has version 190 on it.
You shouldn't have any problems with the version in your new box.
repnewbie
08-22-04, 10:48 AM
DNNA, WHY????????? Yes we were not meant to have those two features but were we really doing you any harm?? You stopped selling units with those capabilities long time ago so we were not "stealing your profits" by buying a lower speced model. Why then have you chosen this route? So whats next DNNA? Are you going after the no updates shell command next?
adone36
08-22-04, 12:41 PM
Because Sonic Blue spent a fortune being sued over those features and reached an agreement to remove them. While DNNA is not bound by that, they probably don't want the POSSIBILITY of a hassle for an extinct piece of hardware. That's why.
I still have the 190 version software on my 5504. I keep checking and no update yet, even tried to force a software install by the 234 zones code.
I stream from the 5504 to the 5040, so if I lose the features no big deal as I will not be impacted.
I still would be interseted in a future fix if one is found, just in case I have to watch TV in the spare room :(
Originally posted by adone36
Because Sonic Blue spent a fortune being sued over those features and reached an agreement to remove them. While DNNA is not bound by that, they probably don't want the POSSIBILITY of a hassle for an extinct piece of hardware. That's why.
I would say the possibility is remote. Esp. since they still sell the 5040.
Originally posted by dfjkl
Esp. since they still sell the 5040. But they haven't manufactured 50XXs since the introduction of the 55XX.
leesweet
08-22-04, 06:30 PM
A reminder that "19" is the same as "140". Lyndon has said that the repair depot has a version called 140 but it's essentially the same as 19 from last September. No relation to 144. :)
Originally posted by repnewbie
DNNA, WHY????????? Yes we were not meant to have those two features but were we really doing you any harm?? You stopped selling units with those capabilities long time ago so we were not "stealing your profits" by buying a lower speced model. Why then have you chosen this route? So whats next DNNA? Are you going after the no updates shell command next?
Business is business.. But if they actually have devlopers actively working on the replaytv platform they would be better to concentrate on new features. Because there ARE other alternatives.
I don't use ca or IVS, but having been reading this thread about the autoupdates and all make me start thinging some more about alternatives just in case ...
I connected my new XP MCE 2004 notebook to my tv for the first time and have been doing side by side comparisons with the replaytv.
and all I can say is If Tivo and Replaytv aren't careful microsoft is going to come in with a preemptive strike.
Wake on schedule means the notebook can stay asleep until the scheduled record time.
Cimenanow for instance is a really cool feature neither tivo or replaytv has.
The search capabilties are far and above either, the cost is prohitbitive I wouldn't be surprised to see that come down once MS releases its media extenders.
Full side by side review comming on my website.
repnewbie
08-22-04, 10:32 PM
Hmmmm. I have one of those XP MCE notebooks too. Never thought about connecting it because my ReplayTV unit was serving me well. Time to hook it up and see what its all about!
DarkScreen
08-22-04, 11:43 PM
Been living without CA for almost a week now. It sucks! :(
Actually thought about going back to my bank of CA VCRs...no, too many other shortcomings.
Or selling my 5504's and buying 5040's....no, too hard to justify the hassle and cost...plus, who knows, CA could go away on 50xx's in the next software release...and how long will it be before there's a better solution than ReplayTVs (like a PC with tuner cards)...especially when I decide to upgrade to HDTV....
So, I'll keep pushing the > key when those pesky commercials try to steal my time and cross my other fingers that one of the gurus out there comes up with a fix for my CA withdrawal pains. I really do appreciate their efforts.
Good luck :)
mhargr03
08-23-04, 12:05 AM
Originally posted by DarkScreen
who knows, CA could go away on 50xx's in the next software release... In my opinion this is close to impossible. These units were sold with this as their major feature, and continue to be sold as such on www.replaytvoutlet.com. If there was any chance DNNA was worried to such an extent that they would take the gigantic step of disabling CA on 5040s they would not still be selling them with those features advertised.
bkushner
08-23-04, 12:07 AM
Originally posted by DarkScreen
Been living without CA for almost a week now. It sucks! :(
Actually thought about going back to my bank of CA VCRs...no, too many other shortcomings.
Or selling my 5504's and buying 5040's....no, too hard to justify the hassle and cost...plus, who knows, CA could go away on 50xx's in the next software release...and how long will it be before there's a better solution than ReplayTVs (like a PC with tuner cards)...especially when I decide to upgrade to HDTV....
So, I'll keep pushing the > key when those pesky commercials try to steal my time and cross my other fingers that one of the gurus out there comes up with a fix for my CA withdrawal pains. I really do appreciate their efforts.
Good luck :)
I'm selling my brand new 5532's on EBAY. Getting 5000's.
GooberedUp
08-23-04, 12:28 AM
Originally posted by mhargr03
In my opinion this is close to impossible. These units were sold with this as their major feature, and continue to be sold as such on www.replaytvoutlet.com. If there was any chance DNNA was worried to such an extent that they would take the gigantic step of disabling CA on 5040s they would not still be selling them with those features advertised.
If CA and IVS went away, DNNA would have to worry about a class-action from consumers.
Originally posted by DarkScreen
So, I'll keep pushing the > key when those pesky commercials try to steal my time and cross my other fingers that one of the gurus out there comes up with a fix for my CA withdrawal pains. I really do appreciate their efforts.
Good luck :) DarkScreen, haven't you followed the thread? There already is a fix for the problem as long as you're willing to put up with daily reboots. Since you already have new software you'll have to re-image drive back to 190, but once you do that apply the Wirns shellcmds (making sure you use the NoSoftwareUpdate.dll).
In fact, if you're willing to leave the Wirns proxy running 24/7 then you don't even need the shellcmds registry setting and you can block a software update without the nightly reboots.
johnmagee4
08-23-04, 12:37 AM
Originally posted by GooberedUp
If CA and IVS went away, DNNA would have to worry about a class-action from consumers.
I'm not so sure that would work. I think we all agreed in the terms and conditions of the service that SonicBlue (and most likely it's successors) could download new software and features to our machine, or disabled or remove features from our machine, without any notice. By using the machine we agree to the TOS, and I believe they gave the option that if we don't agree to the TOS then we can return the unit to them within xx amount of days for a full refund.
Originally posted by moyekj
Since you already have new software you'll have to re-image drive back to 190, but once you do that apply the Wirns shellcmds (making sure you use the NoSoftwareUpdate.dll).
Actually, if someone needs to downgrade from 144 to 19, there *may* be a way to do it that doesn't require reimaging and, thus, would preserve all recordings. Basically, you would check 411-zones to see whether b144 is booting from sys1 or sys2. Once you do that you would use WiRNS + GetShellCommands to delete an important system file there in hopes that the ReplayTV will revert to whatever version of the software you had before 144 (the older version will be in either sys1 or sys2--whichever one is NOT listed in 411-zones). This is a risky and untested procedure, but for those that have decided to reimage anyway (which causes a loss of recordings), it may be worth a try.
ReplayTVs do have this reversion capability and use it for botched software upgrade attempts, so it should theoretically work. Again, it is risky and may still require reimage (and could permanently hose your ReplayTV), but it is something to think about for those who want to downgrade...
Originally posted by moyekj
but once you do that apply the Wirns shellcmds (making sure you use the NoSoftwareUpdate.dll).
In fact, if you're willing to leave the Wirns proxy running 24/7 then you don't even need the shellcmds registry setting and you can block a software update without the nightly reboots.
Nope. I can now confirm that you WILL get the nightly reboots when they want you to have the new software. My 5504 that I just got working the other day did not reboot last night after multiple connects, but tonight it tried to get new software, even though I have the software update disabled through the use of the shellcmds file AND I have the nosoftwareupdate wirns plugin, using the 1.2 beta version of wirns I believe. I have the replay configured as follows:
DNS1/2: wirns proxy
gateway: my routers address
IP of Replay: static
I had a couple power outages today, so I was wondering what if all the DVA messages were due to that. I can now confirm after net connecting and witnessing a reboot that the power outages were not responsible for all my issues.
Aww crap, was I supposed to set the gateway to the wirns proxy also??!! I for some odd reason thought only the DNS requests needed to be proxied. Don't tell me I just screwed myself....
Actually, going back and re-reading, it doesn't look like I needed to make the gateway the wirns box (correct?). I had an IVS transfer going when I tried changing the gateway to the wirns box, and the transfer just stopped, although it did look like it was successfully proxying all of the replay content on a netconnect. I changed the gateway back to my router, and the IVS transfer started moving along fine. From what I can tell, unless told otherwise, it looks like I did everything correctly and it just didn't work. Perhaps they are using a different domain to proxy the replay software download now, to avoid the wirns proxy?
adone36
08-23-04, 03:24 AM
Originally posted by j.m.
Basically, you would check 411-zones to see whether b144 is booting from sys1 or sys2.
Can you make an image file from either partition?? If a person has Bld 144, can he capture the image from the previously used partition and get a 143 image that will work??
DarkScreen
08-23-04, 03:35 AM
There already is a fix for the problem as long as you're willing to put up with daily reboots. Since you already have new software you'll have to re-image drive back to 190, but once you do that apply the Wirns shellcmds (making sure you use the NoSoftwareUpdate.dll).
Sorry moyekj, I thought this was just an interim solution until something more robust got figured out. Ideally something that would restore CA and IVS along with the new software (and possibly future updates) and ideally, not require a re-imaging to 190.
Is anyone still exploring this?
BTW, is the RTV smart enough to avoid network connections to the mothership during or near recording events? If not, it would seem that a re-boot following a connection could lose recordings.
Originally posted by adone36
Can you make an image file from either partition?? If a person has Bld 144, can he capture the image from the previously used partition and get a 143 image that will work??
Both directories are on the same partition, the same system partition you are use to backing up.
adone36
08-23-04, 04:36 AM
OK, then is there a way to copy the older sys to the currently used directory, thereby recovering the previous build when you make an image?
bkushner
08-23-04, 08:35 AM
Do you have to keeo WIRNS running after setting this NODOWNLoad file?
I'd assume you'd always want to run WIRNS because, at the minimum,
whatever registry settings you change could be changed back by RTV
servers at some future point in time.
My replay is not just booting once a day either now. Since I went to bed about 7 hours ago, it's rebooted once. It looks like the system rebooted it too (maybe to try to apply the new software). It rebooted around 7am this morning. DVA reports it announced it was going offline, it's on a UPS (since yesterdays power outage anyway), so to me it looks like the system reboot was intentional.
Originally posted by dfjkl
My replay is not just booting once a day either now. Since I went to bed about 7 hours ago, it's rebooted once. It looks like the system rebooted it too (maybe to try to apply the new software). It rebooted around 7am this morning. DVA reports it announced it was going offline, it's on a UPS, so to me it looks like the system reboot was intentional. My unit rebooted twice in the last 24 hours too, about 12 hours between reboots. For both reboots, the "Last Successful Connect" time coincided with reboot time - odd that a Net Connect would happen twice in less than 24 hours without me forcing one. In any case the old software remains. Will monitor closely reboots and net connects for another few days before concluding for sure what's going on, though it's pretty clear that every net connect will cause a reboot unless one is watching at the time to prevent the reboot in which case it will postpone the reboot to a time of no activity.
mike411
08-23-04, 04:44 PM
So the only thing this new software does is cut the CA/IVS? Was it made for something else also?
Close Captioning is improved.
There is support for newer DTV serial protocol.
Well apparently it's not every net connect that forces a reboot - I forced 2 net connects recently and they went through without rebooting or prompting to reboot. So looks like the only side-effect is the unit thinks it has new software and reboots "once in a while" (haven't figured out a pattern on when it decides to do this) to try and install new software only to find there's no software to install.
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