Comments on 30HF84 I Just received from Amazon.

[arthurking]

Well, I was exciting during the past week about this TV. Now after spending several hours with it, I have started missing my Philips 30PW850H that was returned to Sam's club 3 days ago.
Problems:
1. serious geometry problem. I used Avia to try to correct it. The end result? The geometry after calibration is worse than the 30PW850H before calibration.
2. I can somewhat tolerate the geometry problem. The more serious problem is the picture the tube shows. For some reasons, the whole picture looks very grainy and somewhat out of focus. Sometimes I can see the shadows to the right of the characters on the screen. This doesn't just happen to SD program. Even the DVD picture is at best mediocre, and grainy. As comparison, Philips 30PW850H has an excellent DVD viewing picture and pretty good SD program picture quality.(BTW: I actually like the philips a lot, but returned it due to its infamous "jail bars" problem). I have used Avia to tune the brightness, contrast, sharpness..., and I have been switching between 540P and 1080i. All that I have tried didn't help improve the picture quality. I just can't obtain a clear and vivid picture on my 30HF84 like I have seen on the philips one. Xbox gaming is acceptable but the picture is still jaggy and grainy.( I say jaggy because I owned 30PW850H for more than 1.5 months and seldom noticed the jaggy problems in the good-looking games like DOAU).

Of course, I might received a lemon. But I also took a look at 30HF84 at Bestbuy last week and it also has the same serious geometry problem, and the picture is not that good.
I know there are several other guys in this forum who also jumped into amazon's deal. I'd like to hear your input and share the information about how to tune this TV to give better picture. I will keep testing this TV and will report back if I have any new information.

[rickypicky]

I haven't seen the 30HF84, but I own the 30HF83 and am extremely happy with it. PQ of HD material is fantastic (I use DVI input from my Sony SAT-HD300). PQ of decent, uncompressed SD material is good. PQ of crappy, compressed SD material is not real good, but this is to be expected.

As for the 30HF84 you saw at Bestbuy, my guess is they probably were feeding it with coax. My local Bestbuy does this. Don't ask me why. Don't go to Bestbuy to look at PQ of direct view sets.

As for the geometry issues, I can only say my 30HF83, out of the box, did not have any significant geometry issues. As a matter of fact, I've had this set for about one year and have not felt the need to make any geometry changes.

Sorry you are dissapointed with the 30HF84. I am seriously considering the 34HF84 (love that narrow footprint! ;)) for my family room and moving the 30 incher to my bedroom.

[arthurking]

I can accept the fact that SD PQ is not good. But I can't tolerate the fact that even the progressive scan DVD PQ is not good. My previous philips 30PW850H is considered as a low-end HDTV monitor and it still has vibrant color and sharp picture when showing the 480P signal.
Too bad I am just aware that amazon won't take the return once the TV is delivere. My AMEX card only has return protection up to $300. It seems I am stuck here and the only resort is calling Toshiba service center.

[CrocHunter]

Thats too bad:(

I was really looking foward to getting the toshiba over the panny, now i may get the panny instead.I had a lot of hope for that toshiba model too.
I hope the 34" is'nt the same, but it's likely it will be:(

[jlachowin]

I got my 30HF84 setup last night as well. Only had an hour to play with it, but DirecTivo via svideo doesn't look as good as it did on my 4:3. The theaterwide modes are nice, but it still distorts the pictures.

My DVD's look pretty bad as well, and I still get black bars on the top/bottom on a 16:9 HDTV :(

Oh well, I have to save up for a HD directv box now.

[arthurking]

jlachowin, could you do me a favor to take a look at the texts on the screen? esp. those texts in grey. I noticed that those grey texts have obvious shadows to the right of them. When I change the picture to "movie", the shadows are less obvious but still there. According to Avia, it might be an indication of a problem that beam or optics are out of focus. And, have you tried to use any calibration disc to see if the geometry is right? My geometry is terrible! I have called the nearby Toshiba service center and they will send a guy to look at my TV this afternoon.


Originally posted by jlachowin
I got my 30HF84 setup last night as well. Only had an hour to play with it, but DirecTivo via svideo doesn't look as good as it did on my 4:3. The theaterwide modes are nice, but it still distorts the pictures.

My DVD's look pretty bad as well, and I still get black bars on the top/bottom on a 16:9 HDTV :(

Oh well, I have to save up for a HD directv box now.

[rubs]

After reading this thread my excitment is almost dead. i also returned philips to get this. arthur hopefully u can put some positive remarks after tech guy fix ur tv issues.

--rubs

[jlachowin]

This is my first HDTV set, so I have some fine tuning to do. Some text on the screen, like that new "Focus and a Dell" commercial displayed some really weird white text. Some type of shadow effect going on there.

So far I'm not to pleased with this set out of the box, but if we can tune them to make them look better I'll be happy. As far as DVDs, my 27" Sony wega looks better, so there is something going wrong here.

[Trent]

Originally posted by jlachowin
My DVD's look pretty bad as well, and I still get black bars on the top/bottom on a 16:9 HDTV :(

That reason may be because of the DVD. Please look at this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=332842) for a detailed description.

[Slickman]

I'm beginning to wonder if these are rare problems or if these TVs are overrated:confused:

[jroche]

I can understand one set being off, but this makes 2. My order is still pending shipment so I'd appreciate hearing more. sooner than later.....

Oddly this set is not even listed yet at Toshiba site.

[Elite09]

What stand are you guys using for the tv? I don't see an official stand on either the Toshiba.com or Toshiba.ca websites. Oddly, the Toshiba.com doesn't even list the 30HF84 tv. Does anyone know what the matching stand is for the 30HF84?

Thanks.

[arthurking]

It can't be dvd, at least for my case. Before I got the 30HF84, I owned Philips 30PW850H for almost two months. Using the same DVD player, same dvd disc and same component connections, I was very satisified with the clarity and color on 30PW850H, except the "jail bars" that are noticeable when the background is light grey or grey. And the geometry on that 30PW850H is pretty good out of box and is very good after calibration. But this 30HF84, gees, is terrible. Like I have said above, the real problem is the picture itself looks out of focus. Even the DVD progressive scan(480P) looks grainy and jaggy. I can't stop thinking if there is some quality inspection before this TV went out of the factory. This really pissed me off. I will post update if the tech guy does come this afternoon.

Originally posted by Trent
That reason may be because of the DVD. Please look at this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=332842) for a detailed description.

[hurtz777]

As I have noted before I also have a geometry problem on my 30HF84. The grid lines are all pushed to the right in the center and upper left side of picture causing ripple effects on moving scenes. I also get the quick horizontal shift every minute or so via any 1080i input but not on SD inputs. That jerk is a known issue and a Toshiba tech came out and looked at it and said that they have found the problem and it is from a defective rear input controller board that causes all HD inputs to have a horizontal shift when the TV is first turned on and it will eventually go away once the TV is warmed up after an hour or so. The geometry problem on mine can't be fixed via service menu. Believe me I tried and so did the Toshiba tech and he stated that he has never seen a gemotry distortion like this on either the H83 or H84s and he is still waiting on Toshiba to find the problem for it. He stated that the rings on the CRT couldn't fix this geometry problem and that it is probably just a defective TUBE in general. I really don't care I just want it fixed and it has been a week now since he came and he says he still hasn't gotten a response from Toshiba. I really love the small footprint of my 30HF84 and it has wonderful SD PQ and stretch mode as well as top notch HD PQ after calibration even with the geometry and slight convergence problem causing some color smearing on edges. I have a Zenith DVB318 set at 1080i running into it via component in and the PQ is definitely equal to HBOHD and good DVD transfers and slightly below HBOHD on mediocre transfers. I am running my SA3250HD Cable STB into the Toshiba via a DVI to HDMI cable and the PQ is super sharp and vibrant. Definitely an improvement over the already nice component connection. The DVI output does show slightly more grain since is sharper therefore pixelation is more noticable on certain content. I feel if Toshiba can resolve the geometry issue, slight convergence issue, and the horizontal shift problem this TV is the best you can get for under $1000 for overall PQ, stretch modes, size, and features. By the way ahs anyone gotten any upconverting DVD players to work on this TV via the HDMI input? It seems like the HDMI has a problem with the HDCP handshake on all DVI outputs of the 1080i upconverting players. I hope whoever is to blame can fix the problem and I have a feeling it is probably the DVD player manufactures fault since the HDMI handshakes the HDCP perfectly via my DVI to HDMI cable connected to my SA3250HD's DVI output.

[CrocHunter]

Well after all the complaints with the toshiba,i am no longer interested in the toshiba:(

It's sad too, i was really looking foward to this model in hopes of toshiba being the best picture out of the 34" sets.

[pduffy]

I just purchased a 30HF84 from Best Buy this past weekend because they had a sale going on. To be honest, I'm disappointed with the picture quality and seem to have the same issues as the other folks have posted. There are definitely geometry problems as the gray bars in 4:3 mode are not straight. Probably the biggest problem that I've seen so far is that the image appears blurry in certain spots. White text on a dark background looks smudged and is hard on the eyes. DVDs played on my Pioneer Pro-Scan DVD player via component cables looked good, but not any better than my SD television. My daughter has a few Elmo DVDs and I was really shocked at some of the video artifacts that I saw. The video basically has a really bright background with elmo in the center. Elmo's mouth is completely black and each time he talks fast, the background to the left and right of Elmo's black mouth would get abnormally bright! It was really obvious and looked like the TV was having difficultly displaying black next to really bright colors. Our Sony WEGA 20" SD television never had this problem. Although I got a pretty good deal on this TV (10% off plus $50 gift card), I'll be taking it back in the next few days. I'll probably try one of the Sony WEGA HDTVs since we have been really happy with our 20" WEGA.

[Trent]

I guess I didn't (and still don't) understand what you meant, arthurking, when you said that you see black bars on the top and bottom of your screen when watching DVDs... Are these the standard black bars that you see when you watch a widescreen DVD on a 4:3 TV, or is is something completly different?

[arthurking]

I didn't mention any black bar problem in my post. Of course I understand 2.35:1 DVD will still have black bars on the top and bottom of my screen. My problems are not black bars. Instead, they are 1. serious geometry problem; 2. the picture is somewhat out of focus(or the convergence is not good); 3. the whole picture(either in SD program viewing or in progressive DVD viewing) is grainy and jaggy.

Originally posted by Trent
I guess I didn't (and still don't) understand what you meant, arthurking, when you said that you see black bars on the top and bottom of your screen when watching DVDs... Are these the standard black bars that you see when you watch a widescreen DVD on a 4:3 TV, or is is something completly different?

[widescreenman]

After reading all this negativity, I'm now dreading how my 30hf84 will look when I hook it up! I can only hope that this review from zdnet.com can be believed.

User opinions for Toshiba 30HF84 | 30" 16:9 HD Ready Television 26" to 33"

A killer intro into the world of HDTV Widescreen"
Mark Prince on 03-Sep-2004 01:16:56 AM
Pros: I just bought this television, and I can't say enough good things about it. The colour reproduction is awesome, especially through component connections or S-Video. It's hooked up to a PVR box through Shaw Cable (Canada) with component video and audio, and everything is super crisp. I haven't had a chance to try HDTV yet, but I'm getting DiscoverHD next week. DVD playback is crisp. The cabinet is SMALL - it appeals to those who like their flat panel LCDs to have as little bezel as possible. It's also relatively shallow in the back for a CRT. Heavy, but not overly so. Awesome television, and my last CRT until DLP hits the scene in televisions.
Cons: The manual is not the greatest, and some common

[jefft1314]

Jeesh, after hearing about these problems with the Toshiba, and my own problems I've experienced with panasonic 32hxc14, and the sanyo 32" hd set, it leads me to one conclusion. Sony hd sets are really the only ones worth purchasing. Which leads me to my next conclusion. I will not own an hdtv until I'm out of college.

[widescreenman]

Here's 2 more reviews. This time from cnet.com

Eric on 05-Sep-2004 09:46:57 AM
Pros: HD picture is outstanding. The speakers are on the bottom so this TV fit in an entertainment center used with a 27" TV.

Cons: None so far.

"Fits in the current entertainment unit"
Howard on 05-Sep-2004 06:57:01 PM
Pros: Great picture. Big picture with a small footpad. Excellent value Got it yesterday at Best Buy for a net price of $734 (899 -10% Labor day coupon - $50 mail in gift card and $25 in rewards certificates) The gift card and rewards certs will take a couple of week. Looks like a progressive scan DVD when they come in (Currently have a Denon 2500 Picture is great but is lacking some features)

Cons: Would like a second antena input But that is minor

[arthurking]

exactly! If I could get rid of this TV, I'd like to consider 30HS420 or 30HS510, which could be purchased at about $900

Originally posted by jefft1314
Jeesh, after hearing about these problems with the Toshiba, and my own problems I've experienced with panasonic 32hxc14, and the sanyo 32" hd set, it leads me to one conclusion. Sony hd sets are really the only ones worth purchasing. Which leads me to my next conclusion. I will not own an hdtv until I'm out of college.

[Trent]

Originally posted by arthurking
I didn't mention any black bar problem in my post. Of course I understand 2.35:1 DVD will still have black bars on the top and bottom of my screen. My problems are not black bars. Instead, they are 1. serious geometry problem; 2. the picture is somewhat out of focus(or the convergence is not good); 3. the whole picture(either in SD program viewing or in progressive DVD viewing) is grainy and jaggy.

I'm sorry, it's a simple mixup. I don't always look at who the author of a post I'm replying to is. It was this post that I was replying to:

Originally posted by jlachowin
I got my 30HF84 setup last night as well. Only had an hour to play with it, but DirecTivo via svideo doesn't look as good as it did on my 4:3. The theaterwide modes are nice, but it still distorts the pictures.

My DVD's look pretty bad as well, and I still get black bars on the top/bottom on a 16:9 HDTV

Oh well, I have to save up for a HD directv box now.

And I say that this person may not understand why he sees black bars on the top and bottom of his widescreen TV because he doesn't know that there are movies "wider" than his TV.

[jroche]

Originally posted by widescreenman
After reading all this negativity, I'm now dreading how my 30hf84 will look when I hook it up! I can only hope that this review from zdnet.com can be believed.

User opinions for Toshiba 30HF84 | 30" 16:9 HD Ready Television 26" to 33"

A killer intro into the world of HDTV Widescreen"
Mark Prince on 03-Sep-2004 01:16:56 AM
Pros: I just bought this television, and I can't say enough good things about it. SNIP

I wonder if this is the same Mark Prince that runs the coffeegeek.com site in Canada. He's famous for his reviews of espresso machines. I email him and see if he has any more comments regarding the Toshiba.

[arthurking]

waited a whole afternoon and the service guy didn't appear. called them and they said they don't have the service information on this set cause it is too new. I then called toshiba again and the csr said they will send the service information to my nearby toshiba service center and the service center is supposed to call me again for the service appointment. When I asked how much time this will take, the answer is: they don't know.
well, looks I am really stuck here.

[Elite09]

After reading many posts on a number of boards, I have come up to this conclusion on the 30HF84;

Recommended to hook up HD as well as SD to the tv. As most tv's SD looks alot better with the S-Video hook-up. No different on the 30HF84. Also there may be some conflicts when the DVD/HD receiver upconverts the signal and the tv does the same. That is why the S-Video hook up is great for non HD programs.

This may solve some of the SD picture problems. Same goes with DVD on SD. I don't know about progressive scan DVD players. Have not read much about them.

As for HD programs. Most of the posts I read are very happy with the product. Some complaints are geometry and horizontal jerking. But for the most part, I read that people are impressed with this tv for their HD viewing.

Another big plus is the stretch modes to fill 16:9. Toshiba does a great job here.

Maybe this will help a couple of people and their problems with this tv. I get mine next week so I can't confirm these findings, but this is what I read on more than one forum and the problems are not common to every tv. Alot of good reviews out there, but remember that there is more posts when there is a problems compaired to less posts when all is good. There may be alot more good reviews out there that we have not heard yet.

Hope this helps and keep the reviews/coments coming.

[jlachowin]

Originally posted by arthurking
waited a whole afternoon and the service guy didn't appear. called them and they said they don't have the service information on this set cause it is too new. I then called toshiba again and the csr said they will send the service information to my nearby toshiba service center and the service center is supposed to call me again for the service appointment. When I asked how much time this will take, the answer is: they don't know.
well, looks I am really stuck here.

arthurking;

please keep us updated when the service tech comes. I'd be interested if he can help you out with your TV.

thanks,
Justin

[RandyWalters]

Originally posted by jefft1314
Jeesh, after hearing about these problems with the Toshiba, and my own problems I've experienced with panasonic 32hxc14, and the sanyo 32" hd set, it leads me to one conclusion. Sony hd sets are really the only ones worth purchasing. Which leads me to my next conclusion. I will not own an hdtv until I'm out of college.

If you think you're safe buying a Sony you might be in for a big let down. There are dozens of posts here from Sony owners reporting various problems with their new Sony sets (all models, all sizes) so you're just as likely to get a bad Sony as any other brand. One guy went through 3 top-of-the-line 34XBR960s before giving up, others have problems with the HS420 line just as they did with the HS510 line from last year. Just cause it's Sony doesn't mean it won't be defective. There are way too many posts about Sony problems to have faith in the brand, just like it is with all the other brands. They all suck !

Lots of people have no problems whatsover with their Toshibas and Pannys and Sonys and Samsungs yet still other people are having to return these same sets so there's no guarantee your new set will be problem-free regardless of which brand it is. Even Sony.

[len43]

You guys are freaking me out. I got my delivery date moved up to Saturday, so I'll guess I'll see what it's like then.

[CrocHunter]

Hey Len43, tell me how your set is when you get it, i am curious to see if everybody has these issues with the toshiba.

[clarkkent333]

Mine is coming next week. Don't do this to me guys.

[Elite09]

arthurking, how was night two with the tv? Good and/or bad points that you noticed?

[arthurking]

I hate this TV. This is the worst product I ever bought. Maybe I am just unlucky. I don't understand how this TV can pass the quality control. The SD programming is worse than my 27 inch non-flat analog philips TV. The DVD viewing is terrible. My 480P xbox games, like Dead or Alive 3, DOA: Extreme volleyball, Ralli Sport Challenge 2, Ninja Gaiden, all are arguably best-looking xbox games, look crap and have all those terrible jags and terrible color, while they look fantastic on my previous 30PW850H.
I don't know what to do with this TV. At night I even don't want to watch anything(cable or dvd or gaming) on it. I will try to call Toshiba next week and let somebody come to my home to fix it and I will try to argue hard to let them replace it. Oh, well, that will be a lesson I will remember. Never purchase anything from a place that doesn't allow you return and never purchase anything before you actually see it and feel it.
Good luck to guys in this forum who are still waiting your TV. You must have better luck than me because I can't imagine a worse TV than mine.


Originally posted by Elite09
arthurking, how was night two with the tv? Good and/or bad points that you noticed?

[len43]

Originally posted by CrocHunter
Hey Len43, tell me how your set is when you get it, i am curious to see if everybody has these issues with the toshiba.

I sure will.

Question for every one: Do I tip the deliveryguy(s), and if I do, how much? I live on the 1st floor (not many stairs) and they aren't setting this thing up.

Maybe $5 a person?

[CrocHunter]

Sorry to hear it man, looks like for me it's either the panasonic or Sony now.

But the panasonics features appeal to me more than the sony's, plus $400 cheaper.

Good thing i found out about the toshiba before getting it, because that was my top choice.So i guess the best ones must be the panny and sony.

Although the sony's i've heard are the heaviest of the bunch:(

[CrocHunter]

Well len, if the do a good job, and don't bump the set while moving it, then yeah that sounds cool.

Be sure to tell me how dvd's and videogames look ok.

[Joe Davola]

I new to HDTV so I don't know a lot about what everyone is talking about.

Mine came yesterday so I hooked in up along with my new Samsung
TS360 Direct TV HD receiver. I called and activated the receiver and asked for 6 months free of programming and the CSR did it without a question, maybe they do it for everyone. Oh yeah, I used the component outputs to connect to the TV and put the display at 1080i.

Anyhoo, I watched the game last night and it didn't look any better than my old 36" RCA 4:3.

Turned on HD Discovery and watched that for a while. Do they show the same program over and over again?!?!?! The picture was amazing. It looked good when I was watching it, but what I really noticed was when I went back to watching a normal TV. The picture didn't look right. I thought it was my eyes.

I know I'm dumb, but I didn't think it was that bad. Now because of all the negative stuff I've read about it, there's no way it could look good.

I can't wait for this weekend NFL games in HD with the NFL package. I watched ESPN HD this morning and saw highlights from the game that looked great.


Is it worth getting a DVI to HDMI cable for my input?
Will the picture be any better?

Good luck to all.

[mpark]

I love this TV. I've had it for 2 weeks and it is awesome. I don't have the geometry problems everyone is talking about. I was told that the first ones of these did have some problems and they changed something in the production before this last release of sets. I'm feeding the HDMI input with DVI from my Directv receiver. Looks great.

[jlachowin]

So is it possible arthurking and myself got early sets that are faulty? Hopefully that is the case, and we can get them replaced, because I don't even want to watch anything at this point. The set looks very grainy :mad:

arthurking, are you still having a tech come out to look at your set? If so, please let us (me) know what happens.

Thanks,
Justin

[arthurking]

the answer is, sadly, not. Toshiba needs to send the service information to my nearby service center and then the service guy can come to inspect my set. But I plan to call toshiba again to ask how long I should wait.
update: I just called toshiba again and the csr said they had escalated my case(I don't know what that means but sounds not bad) and I should expect a call from service center in 2 business days. Otherwise, call toshiba again. Now I just need to wait and see. But I really suspect the tech guy can help me out this time. The best hope is to let toshiba exchange one good set for me. Who knows!

Originally posted by jlachowin
So is it possible arthurking and myself got early sets that are faulty? Hopefully that is the case, and we can get them replaced, because I don't even want to watch anything at this point. The set looks very grainy :mad:

arthurking, are you still having a tech come out to look at your set? If so, please let us (me) know what happens.

Thanks,
Justin

[AVjam]

mpark, where did get your toshiba?

As for the other folks who are waiting for their delivery... Didn't Amazon's site say that you can open the box, make sure you're happy, and only sign for delivery when your satisfied? I could be wrong though.

[mpark]

Originally posted by AVjam
mpark, where did get your toshiba?

As for the other folks who are waiting for their delivery... Didn't Amazon's site say that you can open the box, make sure you're happy, and only sign for delivery when your satisfied? I could be wrong though.
I actually got it through an AVS Member who owns a HT Business that he runs here in Central Virginia. He was the one who told me about checking the serial numbers but I forget what they were. I'll see if I can get him to post something on this thread.

[jroche]

Originally posted by arthurking
I hate this TV. This is the worst product I ever bought.

Toshiba makes good stuff in my experience. This just has to be a defective set, plain and simple. I'll be very curious to hear the follow-up after the sevice guy arrives. I'd bet the bank you'll have a new replacement set. I also wonder if something could have got knocked out of whack in transport, though you'd figure they pack them for just this kind of shipping torture...


john

[BlueHeaven]

Thanks for everyone's comments on this set. I'd definitely be interested in the serial number information. Amazon doesn't estimate my delivery until mid-October so I have time to cancel but would prefer not to. Maybe someone unloaded a bunch of the problem sets on Amazon to sell cheap.

Rick.

[taranis]

I just got back from Best Buy and compared the 30HF84 with the 30" Sony. I was watching tennis and was amazed at just how bad the geometry was on the Toshiba. The center line was shifted several pixels half way down the screen. Anything with a straight edge like a door or a laptop screen had similar problems. In addition, the entire picture at the top 1" of the screen was shifted.

I bought my Toshiba from Amazon and it's enroute. Amazon doesn't accept returns on 27"+ TVs, but I heard if you don't sign for it, they will take it back. Depending on if there's a restocking fee, I will do this. Otherwise, I'll keep it sealed in the box and sell it at work or in the paper. Hopefully, the in home warranty is transferrable.

Mike

[CrocHunter]

Sorry to hear the toshiba's had a lot of problems.

What's up with Toshiba lately?They are supposed to be one of the best sets you can get.

[rubs]

I got the set yesterday from amazon. I don't have much experience with HDTV but something is missing in this set. I see regulay grey lines around characters etc. viewing hdtv is still ok but standard channels need some tuning. I will check with them on monday...one side question, can we buy extended warranty after set is delivered and ehat is the procedure?

Thanks
--rubs

[len43]

Ok, it came a couple of hours ago and I'm pretty impressed. The PQ of SD is really good and Xbox really really looks good. The cable store was closed today because of a huge fire, I won't be able to get a HDTV box until Monday.

I need some help with some problems. The bottom half of the image is shifted about 1-2 pixels over making 4:3 annoying. The lines aren't straight at all, and something needs to be tuned. Also, the image seems soft. My eyes are straining as if I'm focusing too hard.

I've tried to access the service menu by holding 9 while volume is at 0. That doesn't work. What am I doing wrong?

I've messed with CRT computer monitors in the past and calibrated them effectively, but this is my first HDTV. To me, the picture needs tuning, but should be fine after it is. I hope I'm right. Any pointers to fixing this thing up?

[RandyWalters]

Originally posted by len43
Ok, it came a couple of hours ago and I'm pretty impressed. The PQ of SD is really good ........

.......Also, the image seems soft. My eyes are straining as if I'm focusing too hard.

I've messed with CRT computer monitors in the past and calibrated them effectively, but this is my first HDTV. To me, the picture needs tuning, but should be fine after it is. I hope I'm right. Any pointers to fixing this thing up?

It seems that HD-TVs in general look a little softer than an analog set due to the reduction or elimination of scan lines compared to an analog set. I've noticed this on mine and others' HD tube sets and it takes a little getting used to, but still it looks way better than my old Sony. It took me about a week to grow accustomed to the completely different look of this TV's picture, but now it looks just fine. Smooth and clean, especially on the better cable channels.

If you have your cable box connected via S-video try using the composite video and see if it looks better. My cable converter and cable DVR both look better via composite than S-video - a little less soft and generally cleaner looking. Alternately, if you're connected via composite, try S-video. If you're TV is connected via the RF cable, that's the worst connection you can use so try the other two methods :)

I'm also wondering why other people have posted that SD looks like crap while your SD PQ is really good. It has to be either their TVs are defective or their SD source is poor.

[len43]

In Arthurking's words "I hate this TV".

I played with this tv a bit and then posted here earlier today. I had a lot of things to do and couldn't really concentrate on it for any length of time. But I started thinking on that slight distortion in the middle of the TV. It really started to really bother me. Didn't somebody say that a part on the 30HF84 was faulty, and it should be warmed up to get rid of the distortion? Anyway, I finally got back home and got some time to mess with it again. I decided to watch some TV and a movie to see if I was still impressed with the PQ. I turned it on and tuned it to tennis. It had a *huge* wave in the middle. It would distort in and out and I got that very distinctive "oh sh*t" feeling. I turned it off and let it rest for a second, got a drink of water, took a very deep breath and turned it back on ...

Then an electrical smoke smell started to eminate in the room. I jumped up and tried to find it, the smell turned from very slight to putrid in a quick hurry. It was at this point the TV screen went off but the power stayed on. I pulled out everything and tried to isolate the smell (although I had very good idea what it was already). I hooked up all my other electronics (dvd, xbox, stereo). One by one, I checked them out, no problems. I went back over to the TV, took a huge whiff, and nearly gagged. It was definitely it. That smell is horrible.

I was so incredibly pissed but I've calmed down now. The quality control out of Toshiba seems to be very bad. Cases like mine and arthurking and everybody else that are having problems should be the rare exception. I *was* impressed with the quality of what I saw, but I wouldn't recommend this TV based on my own experience and of those I've read so far. Good luck if you decide to keep your order and I'll let you guys now how Toshiba is going to handle this.

EDIT: I decided to edit the message A LOT and not be so harsh. I'm certainly not happy with the TV but I can see that they all can't be bad.

[taranis]

I'm really sorry to hear that Len. On the bright side, maybe Toshiba will give you a new TV from a different source and it won't have any of the problems of the Amazon and Best Buy TVs. Based on some of the positive reviews, they must be out there somewhere.

I just sent an email to Amazon asking them how I can return it (before it's delivered). I'll let everyone know what I find out. I expect I'll have to eat the $81.10 in shipping.

Mike

[CrocHunter]

Keep us updated, something has to be wrong with the toshiba's circuitry.

I mean come on here, Toshiba is supposed to be a reliable brand:(

So far though from what i have heard it seems the Sony and panny are the best of the bunch to get.I would stick with either one if you decide to get something else.

[rd001]

Originally posted by taranis

I just sent an email to Amazon asking them how I can return it (before it's delivered). I'll let everyone know what I find out. I expect I'll have to eat the $81.10 in shipping.
Please post the info when you get it. I have one inbound too.

3 bad sets so far
0 good sets so far

Sounds like something I'm not going to sign for.

[Elite09]

After reading this post and that my Toshiba 30HF84 is due in for delivery next week I drove two hours to the city to see the tv for myself. I went to A&B Sound and they had the three 30" TV's (Panny, Sony and Toshiba) side by side showing the same feed. I quickly switch the channel to PBS HD on Bell Expressvu and studied the picture. I found that the Panny was too bright and Toshiba was too dark. Sony looked good. After a couple minutes of adjusting the picture all three looked almost the same. I did notice a little grain on the Panny but was very impressed with the Sony and Toshiba. The geometry of the three was pretty good. Only the Panny was off a bit, but I am sure that a service menu adjustment would fix. The Toshiba had the best stretch modes of the three and had the best look IMO.

Best picture.

1. Sony
2. Toshiba
3. Panny

Stretch modes:

1. Toshiba
2. Panny
3. Sony

Remote:

1. Panny
2. Toshiba
3. Sony

Features that I noticed:

1. Toshiba
2. Panny
3. Sony

Price:

1. Toshiba
2. Panny
3. Sony

Overall look of cabinet:

1. Toshiba. Hands down. (speakers on bottom make a huge difference)
2. Panny (Don't like the speakers on the side and I felt that the speakers holes were too large. Took my focus away from the screen)
3. Sony (Looks cheaply made compared to the 34". 34" looks very solid but the 30" is missing something.

The also had the three 34"'s tv's in another room and I only took a quick peak but IMO the Sony looked the best.

Also saw the 26" Toshiba and it is a pretty sharp unit. Looks the same as the 30" Toshiba.

Overall, if the Toshiba I receive looks like the one in the store, I will be very very pleased. I hope that Len and Arthur got the rare sets in the bunch.

Can't wait till I get the tv.

[Playdrv4me]

Man those things are terrible. I saw a 34HFX84 Yesterday and was actually quite impressed. Nice picture, beautiful compact case and overall size but of course it had an HD feed, and Ive never really considered a Toshiba anything so I didnt study it too hard.

Im going to have to agree with one of the previous comments, the truth is, Sony is the way to go when it comes to Tubes I think. I have not been really impressed with any other brand, even with all the problems Sonys have (which you have to admit, in not all, but many cases, its just someone who is EXTREMELY picky about Geometry) the sharpest HD AND SD images, so they are very well rounded when it comes to doing many things well. There is always SOMETHING that I dont like about other brands, even if theres one thing that I like ALOT. With Sonys its just a pretty overall good package if you dont get a bad one.

BTW... Why anyone would want a Direct View widescreen smaller than 30 inches is BEYOND me, in fact im quite surprised that these are being produced, but larger, more useful direct view widescreens are not.

[taranis]

I went to a different Best Buy today and their Toshiba had none of the geometry problems I saw yesterday. It did exhibit some bowing at the edges, but so did the Sony. I think both are fixable in the service menus. The one I saw yesterday was all over the place.

Mike

[arthurking]

I am sorry to hear your story, len43. It is a shame that Toshiba put these faulty TVs, which I believe, into market. They shall not pass the quality control with all those terrible geometry problems, or even the defective tubes of terrible picture quality. So, is your TV still working but with some smell? From other aspect of view, it might be a good thing for you because you can definitely persuade toshiba to replace a new TV for you. I am worrying about the possiblity that the tech guy might screw me because he perhaps will say something like all TVs have more or less of geometry or color problems, or sth like that and refuse to put a request for replacement for me. I am not a professional on TVs but I can defintely tell that my 30HF84 has serious problems or might be just defective. Hopefully, Toshiba can work out a solution for us and I will keep updating this thread if I have any new progress.

[len43]

Originally posted by arthurking
I am sorry to hear your story, len43. It is a shame that Toshiba put these faulty TVs, which I believe, into market. They shall not pass the quality control with all those terrible geometry problems, or even the defective tubes of terrible picture quality. So, is your TV still working but with some smell? From other aspect of view, it might be a good thing for you because you can definitely persuade toshiba to replace a new TV for you. I am worrying about the possiblity that the tech guy might screw me because he perhaps will say something like all TVs have more or less of geometry or color problems, or sth like that and refuse to put a request for replacement for me. I am not a professional on TVs but I can defintely tell that my 30HF84 has serious problems or might be just defective. Hopefully, Toshiba can work out a solution for us and I will keep updating this thread if I have any new progress.

Frankly the thing is a fire hazard. I'm not plugging it back in.

As I reread this thread, I started seeing the same distinct pattern of problems I had:

The geometry problems from the middle down. It starts as 1-2 pixels and makes 4:3 annoying in it's native form. Stretched with theaterwide, it looks fine, but it might be just masking the distortion. Right before mine fizzled the "wave" was in the exact same spot as the distortion before. It was just across the whole screen about a 1/2 inch wide.

The top corners bow right at the top, just like I read in here. Some items appeared fuzzy with ghosted images around light objects (like grey text etc). Colors can be muddled in SD mode from far away shots, I noticed this right before it blew.

You know, I'm not so afraid of them fixing it now, but what happens down the line? Since this is a new purchase can I get an extended warranty from anybody? And no, I can't get one from my CC.

[arthurking]

I bought my 30HF84 with AMEX blue, which automatically doubles the factory warranty to 2 years. I think TV can usually last a long time as long as it works properly during the first 1 or 2 years.

[rubs]

I was watching tennis on cbs hdtv and picture was too shaky in the middle(almost untolerable)..i email them about the issue and lets see how they will respond....what is the normal procedure..should we call 1800 number or call directly local service center?

Thanks
--rubs

[arthurking]

I called local service center first but they don't have the service information for this set. I am still waiting...

[SSJLaletas]

Hey guys, I work at the my local best buy in delaware in the ht dept. So I get to use these televisions all the time. In fact considering my hd tv to be the 30hf84, or the mitsubishi 42" (WT-42315, but mitsu is being lazy and not putting them out yet so im not sure what to do yet). I have used all of the settings on all the 30 inchers like the sony, toshiba, samsung, philips as well as others. Whenever I put it in 4:3 mode with a regular analog signal no matter what the brand the picture is never straight it always seem to bend usually at the bottom going to the right. I dont know why but it is definitely a trend, frankly I could care less because I wont be watching much sd, and when I do I'll have it in widescreen anyway (thats the reason I will buy a widescreen tv in the first place), most of the tv's now do at the least a decent job of stretching the image, especially the toshiba 30". Anyway other than the tv almost starting a fire Im a real doubter that his tv is that bad, I mean I have been looking closely at it for the past two weeks, I mean the stretch modes are great why do you guys want 4:3? Maybe something is wrong with me or my eyes. Anyway I really hope the folks that are having your problems to get it reasonably resolved, because I really feel bad.

[boden11]

I just purchased one of these when the sale was first listed--I had been looking at this tv for a while and had heard nothing but good things. So when it came out for $717 I instantly pulled the trigger. That said it has nearly arrived at my doorstep (estimated tomorrow or the next day) and I can't cancel it even if I wanted too...which I don't think I want to. I have read these posts through out and basically the main concern seems to be:

Geometry issues.

Now is this in all modes or what? Some people are stating only 4:3. Personally I plan on using this TV for DVD viewing (just about exclusively) using Component video cables and a progressive scan dvd player. Am I going to notice a damn thing? My viewing distance is probably going to be a little farther away than most people's anyway because of my room setup. (If I set it close to the couch then it really blocks any way to get to the kitchen because of the wall and where the cable / power connections are). Against the wall and its definitely too far away. I've already had to move the couch nearly a foot from the wall, but this should be ok since it will also work well with the 6.1 system I'm getting.

Personally I doubt I'm going to notice any geometry issues or other problems with this set. Or am I just kidding myself? Honestly as long as it doesn't fry out like that one guy's I don't see myself not liking my decision. Everyone seems to agree unanimously that for HD viewing (HDTV and DVDs) this tv has a VERY GOOD picture. Apart from that then people start getting mixed concerns/opinions. I *MIGHT* get cable, esp. since my cable company has a 32.99/month 3 month promotion for like every channel (including HBO HD and Showtime HD) but after 3 months its like $70. And considering I can usually get the DVD's of movies 2-3 months before HBO or Showtime I'm not too concerned...

edit: Also I'm getting the Avia Home Essentials disc and once the tv is properly configured I really doubt there's going to be any problems unless you're literally inches from the tv

[taranis]

I got a reply back from Amazon stating that you can return it if it hasn't been delivered yet, but it will cost you $163 in shipping. Ouch!

[SSJLaletas]

Tell us what happens when you get your set today boden. Since you will be connecting a progressive scan dvd via component and will be using that almost exclusively, I doubt that you will notice anything except for a great picture. Tell us what happens today though!

[rubs]

I talked to toshiba support and one of engineer will be coming this thursday but he already explained that he might not able to help much as he never hear the following issues before. Please confirm if you are also experiencing any of folloing issues or it is only lucky me:
1) Picture in the middle of screen is shaking and it was so bad that I can’t able to see the tennis on CBS hdtv. First I thought it was a transmission issue but later on when I checked it was only with my TV
2) Most of the times there are grey lines around the characters on the screen so it is very difficult to read anything on the screen
3) In 4:3 mode vertical lines are not straight. We can see small curves on the left top and right bottom corner
4) While watching fox 25 on hdtv that i believe is transmitted in 720p and our tv should have upgraded it to 1080 but i just see weird colors on the screen as tv is not capable of showing that channel

Thanks
--rubs

[arthurking]

I can at least confirm 2 and 3. For 2, you can make the grey shadows around the characters less visible by adjusting the picture parameters. I found MOVIE mode is good, but it is too dark. Anyway, they are still there and can't be rid of.
For 3, vertical lines are always curved.
Let me repeat my problem again, but note that is just my case. Besides the serious geometry problems(persistent in all modes including 480P, 1080i), my biggest concern is the terrible picture quality, not only seen in SD program viewing but in all modes including 480P and 1080i. Progressive DVd looks crap and 480P xbox gaming picture looks terrible. I am pretty sure my TV has big problem.

[pduffy]

"1) Picture in the middle of screen is shaking and it was so bad that I can’t able to see the tennis on CBS hdtv. First I thought it was a transmission issue but later on when I checked it was only with my TV"

My set does not have this problem.

"2) Most of the times there are grey lines around the characters on the screen so it is very difficult to read anything on the screen"

Hooking up my PS2 via the Sony component cable causes a green halo around most objects. It's really awful looking and I'm not sure if the TV or the cable is causing the problem. The regular Sony composite cable does not have this problem.

"3) In 4:3 mode vertical lines are not straight. We can see small curves on the left top and right bottom corner"

I definitely see the same thing. I rented Video Essentials to help correct the geometry issues. I displayed some of the test patterns and used the service menu to make corrections. The geometry was pretty bad based on some of the grid patterns. I used the 16:9 FULL picture mode and the 16:9 Anamorphic grid pattern to make corrections. Although it's nowhere near perfect, it is much better than before. I still have a nasty distortion near the center on the righthand side that I can't correct. I can see it when the credits are rolling at the end of a movie.

"4) While watching fox 25 on hdtv that i believe is transmitted in 720p and our tv should have upgraded it to 1080 but i just see weird colors on the screen as tv is not capable of showing that channel"

I don't have a HDTV signal yet, so I can't confirm this.

[akarz]

Mine will be delivered tomorrow. As much as I have my fingers crossed, I guess it doesn't hurt to prepare.

How do you get into the service menu for this set .... Is there anything special to keep note of when navigating the service menu?

Thanks

[pduffy]

I believe someone else posted this in another thread, but I'll include it here as well. As a disclaimer, be VERY careful and be sure to write down the factory settings before changing anything! I don't know if the warranty is voided if you go into the service menu, so that's something to keep in mind. I learned this the hard way many years ago when I had a widescreen 40" Toshiba RPTV and used the service mode to fine tune the convergence. I left the convergence grid on the TV too long and ended up burning the grid into the projection tubes. Needless to say, I wasn't careful and ended up selling the RPTV for a big loss.

Ok, here's the instructions: Open the TV's front control door and press the DOWN volume button until it reaches zero. Keep holding the volume button and simultaneously press/hold the number 9 on the remote control. After a few seconds, the service menu will appear. Press the channel up/down to switch between the different adjustment modes. Press the volume up/down to tweak the current adjustment mode. Off the top of my head there are like 60 different modes you can tweak. The changes you make are saved right away, even if you power off the TV.

Just to reiterate, there is no "RESET" option. Be sure you write down the settings before modifying anything!

[iimmydu3]

I got the 30HF84 in the Amazon deal a week ago. So far I'm frustrated, but somewhat satisfied. I don't think I have problems with blips and the shadow to the letters isn't really there after adjusting constrast and brightness. I am very unhappy with the geometry. Right in the middle of the screen it's like the bottom half of the screen is slantedly pushed over a few pixels to the right. This slant is obvious especially on video games which have vertical lines. Also the top corners are messed up as described earlier, but not that bad. This is all in 4x3 Natural, and when expanding to Full the problem is seen in images. Does anyone think these geometry problems are fixable? I read that sometimes the bending can be casued from an inadequate power supply. It's interesting that the 83 model is still more expensive than the 84 and the 84 isn't listed on toshiba's site...it's almost as if they knew something was wrong before selling this TV.

[boden11]

Is anyone having these problems when connected to a HD component like a Progressive scan DVD player or a HD Cable box? How do DVDs in native 16:9 look? Are there still geometry issues? How is the PQ (ignoring the geometry issue some people are experiencing). What about when using a VCR or watching normal television?

Are these problems fixable? Is anyone going to call for an ISF calibration? How about asking Toshiba CSR for a complimentary ISF calibration due to poor default settings? I've read that for the Avia setup disc they recommend waiting 6 weeks before tweaking all the settings. Could part of this be remedied after using the set a while? If not what recourse do we have? Amazon expressly states no returns on tvs >27". If we keep calling Toshiba tech will they let us exchange/return it? I'd be pissed too if the bottom half of my screen was shifted over a few pixels or there was serious warpage of images due to poor set geometry.

--I still have not received my tv but am now growing concerned. Are there people who bought this tv who aren't experiencing any issues? How major are the problems? Are they visible when LOOKING for them but not noticeable when just watching tv/dvds. Are all inputs giving this poor image? (Component, HDMI, SVideo, RCA ???) etc.

[STEAMHL2]

Is there anyone who has had a totally positive experience with this TV?

I myself had originally ordered the Toshiba 30HF83 back a while ago when it was cheap at Amazon, but it was delivered with a big crack in the back of it. I got my refund and then they no longer sold new 30HF83s anymore.

Now I had my heart set on the newer 30HFX84 model that is due to come out at the end of the month. But I am scared with all these problems with the 30HF84 that the HFX model will have the same problems.

Is there any other 30" WS HDTVs in the same price range (~$1K) that would be a better option? I like the Toshibas becuase they are good quality (or were), I don't use them for audio so speakers on bottom is a plus and I like the silver/black style of the new HFX models.

As far as I know the Sonys, Pannys etc. all are silver and have speakers that extend out on the side. The Sonys also seem quite a bit heavier.

[bconover1328]

Well I recieved my 30hf84 today from amazon. As much as I would like to say it is a great display, I have to agree with everyone else in this post. I have hooked up an xbox using monster component cables as well as a progressive scan dvd player with pheonix gold components. I have calibrated the set with DVE and popped in a few movies. The most noticeable flaw to my eyes is the substantial amount of grain in dark grey or blue scenes. I have already purchased and returned a 30hs420 as well as the samsung txp 2775 and both were much clearer. Secondly, I also have a pixel shift in the center of the screen which makes all vertical lines have a slight bend (ex. doors, windows, buildings). Judging from my experience, such problems will be very difficult to fix in the service menu, as the pixel shift only affects about an inch strip running the width of the screen. Rallisport 2 seemed adequate, but the pixel shift was still apparent.

I guess I am in the same boat as everyone else.....*sigh

[arthurking]

bconover1328, at least you are happy with your picture quality. For some reason, the picture quality of my xbox on the 30HF84 is almost unbearable. the cars in Rallisport 2 under 480P are very jaggy and the colors are much washed out, while the picture in my returned 30PW850H is great.
Today I didn't receive a call from service center as promised. So, I need to call them again tomorrow.

[len43]

Originally posted by arthurking
bconover1328, at least you are happy with your picture quality. For some reason, the picture quality of my xbox on the 30HF84 is almost unbearable. the cars in Rallisport 2 under 480P are very jaggy and the colors are much washed out, while the picture in my returned 30PW850H is great.
Today I didn't receive a call from service center as promised. So, I need to call them again tomorrow.

My call from the service center wasn't returned either.

What is the chance I could convince Toshiba to give me a "similar" model ... ANY model other this one. Mine is obviously toast (I'm the smoking TV guy), so maybe I could sweet talk them into giving me a 30hf83 or a 27" 4:3.

God, what a nightmare this is turning out to be.

[Joe Davola]

Okay, i've had my TV since Thursday and hooked up my new Directv HD. I'm almost embarassed to admit that I don't think I have any of the problem everyone here is talking about.

The HD channels to me look fantastic. Standard channels don't looks so good, but that's after watching HD on the same TV for a while. When compared to a standard TV, the standard picture is any worse, maybe a little better.

Should I be able to see the problems everyone else is having without knowing much about HDTVs?

Just in case anyone care, my TV build date is July/2004 SN 5408C5XXX.

After monitoring theis thread, I spend more time looking for problems than I do enjoying the shows.

NFL HD was great along with the Champ Car race on the HD network.

[len43]

Originally posted by Joe Davola
Okay, i've had my TV since Thursday and hooked up my new Directv HD. I'm almost embarassed to admit that I don't think I have any of the problem everyone here is talking about.

The HD channels to me look fantastic. Standard channels don't looks so good, but that's after watching HD on the same TV for a while. When compared to a standard TV, the standard picture is any worse, maybe a little better.

Should I be able to see the problems everyone else is having without knowing much about HDTVs?

Just in case anyone care, my TV build date is July/2004 SN 5408C5XXX.

After monitoring theis thread, I spend more time looking for problems than I do enjoying the shows.

NFL HD was great along with the Champ Car race on the HD network.

Don't be embarrased, everybody wants everybody else to have a perfect or near perfect TV. Good for you, it gives me hope for a replacement.

Build date for mine was July 2004 SN 9408C5XXX.

[bconover1328]

mine is July 2004 SN 9408C5XXX as well

[Elite09]

Is there a trend here with the build date?

[rubs]

I more day 1 more issue..while watching DVD last night i see vertical lines about 1 inch apart all over the screen (probably it might be jail bars mentioned in other posts). so now i have total 5 issues.

Thanks
--rubs

[arthurking]

my serial no. is 9408C2***, build date July, 2004. wait a second, all three problematic TVs mentioned in this thread begin with 9408. Is it an indication? I hope there are other people can post their serial no.

[iimmydu3]

serial #: SN 9408C5XXX
build: July 2004

mine has the geometry issues. I haven't yet hooked up to HD, so we'll see how that it.

[bradolson]

SN #9408C3XXX
Build: July 2004

Mine has the geometry / shift / grainy picture quality problems, and HD looks terrible. I have a service guy coming Thursday morning.

[jonny2134]

I know my build is July 2004 ... I will post the serial number when I get home from work.

Last night I counted the vertical bars I have, 57 separate vertical lines that span across the entire width of the screen. 95% unnoticable until the color gets darked. A good example is the Return of the King DVD, towards the end when there is about 5 "endings". Each fade to black will show a massive grid on the screen.

Its not the picture tube as I can use the tilt feature and see the lines being tilted with the entire screen. Something is definitely wrong with the input connections as I have now tried 4 separate DVD players, an XBOX and a PS2. Tomorrow the high def cable box comes in and that will be the ultimate test for this TV.

[akarz]

I got mine today. Set it up over lunch and played with it for about 10 minutes. I have it hooked to the Comcast HD box at 1080i. I notice (like the others) an issue with geometry (pincushion like a ")" from both sides on a 4:3 picture). Did not notice any other problems except for the fact that it still requires color calibration.

My plan is to just use it with the Comcast HD box and not with any other source (have a G70 CRT pj for all my movies). Discovery HD, and in general HD does look very good on it. I'll know more once I play with it further.

Will check on the serial number for everyone's benefit.

I'll report back after AVIA calibration.

[Elite09]

So the general problems of geometry on on the 4:3 image? How does it look stretched to 16:9? When I looked in the store I didn't notice a difference watching 16:9. The tv looked real real good with HD.

Everything I do will either be stretched to 16:9 or 16:9 by default except for an odd DVD movie. Will I even notice a geometry problem if I have one?

My tv comes Friday.

[akarz]

Originally posted by Elite09
So the general problems of geometry on on the 4:3 image? How does it look stretched to 16:9? When I looked in the store I didn't notice a difference watching 16:9. The tv looked real real good with HD.

Everything I do will either be stretched to 16:9 or 16:9 by default except for an odd DVD movie. Will I even notice a geometry problem if I have one?

My tv comes Friday.

With 1080i conversion being done at the cable box, I don't think I have the option to stretch it.

Geometry issues still exist in 16:9 image in my case , an example here is ESPNHD (which was showing 4:3 images even on HD) which I noticed had similar geometry issues. So in any case, straight vertical lines appear slightly curved on mine.

Will it bother you enough, I do not know. I know I'll try to fix mine.

[Elite09]

akarz,

let me know if you fix it and how exactly you did so. i have a feeling my tv will show up with the same issues.

[jonny2134]

July 2004
Serial no: 9408 C4XXX

[SSJLaletas]

Well looks like we pretty much narrowed it down with the build date of being July/2004 with a serial number of 9408... Which sucks if you have it. I just wish I can see the build date on the box before I go in to buy it :/ Again I wish the best to those folks who have that serial number.

[arthurking]

I suspect the possiblity that toshiba will ever want to acknowledge the existence of a "faulty" batch of 30HF84.

[mpark]

My serial number is 4708D0XXX. I got this off the box so I didn't see a build date but will check when I have time to turn the set around in my entertainment center. I have been happy with my set. It does have the geometry problem that you guys speak of when viewing SD but that doesn't bother me. The one thing it does do is it seems to degaus itself sometimes when you first turn it on. Tonight it did it for about a minute then was fine.
I'm feed it DVI through the HDMI connection from a Directv HD box. HD content looks fabulous.

[kreisman]

Just got my 30HF84, and so far the picture is fine, with no obvious geometry problem. HD hookup will not be until Thursday.

But I do have a couple of issues that maybe someone can address:

1. On 4:3 image, the bars on the side are white, not black. Huh? Is there an adjustment I'm missing?

2. When trying to program the remote control to operate Comcast's cable box, I find there is no setting for the Motorola. Is that possible? Millions use the Motorola box from Comcast. Why is there no setting?

[akarz]

My S/N 9408C3* July 2004.

[kreisman]

akarz - You are using Comcast, I see. Motorola box? Have you tried to program the Toshiba remote to respond to the Motorola box? If so, what code do you use?

My serial number is 9408C5XXX A

[SSJLaletas]

Ive tried a Sony remote, several universal remotes as well as toshiba, I can never get it to work on any comcast box. I dunno

[rubs]

serial number is 9408C3XXX

Toshiba support enigineer is coming tomorrows. i will keep updated how things go.

Thanks
--rubs

[rubs]

forget to mention...it is Made in Thailand

--rubs

[Bones10]

This thread has been VERY educational and helpful…

My primary uses for the TV will be widescreen DVD's and Xbox, HP cable service is secondary rihgt now (although I could easily subscribe later)

I ordered this TV from amazon on the 12th of Sept, however, the estimated ship date is Oct 1-10?!?! Perhaps they are waiting for a second batch a TV’s, knowing of these apparently rampant problems with their first batch. Hmmm… Wondering if I should cancel the order since it hasn’t shipped, and pay an extra $200 to get it from a store where I’ll be able to return it if I have problems.

Is anyone else also facing that long shipping estimate? Do these Toshiba techs that come out to your house cost anything or they covered under the warranty…

Any thoughts/opinions on what I should do here? (cancel the order/take my chances)

[akarz]

Originally posted by kreisman
akarz - You are using Comcast, I see. Motorola box? Have you tried to program the Toshiba remote to respond to the Motorola box? If so, what code do you use?

My serial number is 9408C5XXX A

Kreisman, it is not high on my list to try this. My wife has broken down and uses multiple remotes :).

[jonny2134]

Bones10,

I would cancel the order through Amazon and buy the TV via traditional methods. I was able to haggle with the salesman at a local electronics store and got him to shave $200 off the initial price and I only had to wait 3 days for it to arrive at the store from the warehouse. But I would make sure that you check on the return policy and get it in writing if you can. The store that I bought this set from does not accept returns on TVs larger than 30" for any reason whatsoever. Units are sold as is and can only be replaced if deemed unrepairable by a certified technician.

And the techs that come to your house are not employees of Toshiba. They work for various repair shops in the area, you can find a list of these service centers on the Toshiba website. It wont cost you a dime to have them look at your set, perform calibration, fix, etc. Most repair shops will probably require you to have the place you purchased the set from contact them before they send someone to you free of charge.

[Elite09]

The 26/30/34HF84 TV's are finally all up on the www.toshiba.com website. Still no matching stands for them as of yet.

[bjohn]

Originally posted by Bones10
This thread has been VERY educational and helpful…

My primary uses for the TV will be widescreen DVD's and Xbox, HP cable service is secondary rihgt now (although I could easily subscribe later)

I ordered this TV from amazon on the 12th of Sept, however, the estimated ship date is Oct 1-10?!?! Perhaps they are waiting for a second batch a TV’s, knowing of these apparently rampant problems with their first batch. Hmmm… Wondering if I should cancel the order since it hasn’t shipped, and pay an extra $200 to get it from a store where I’ll be able to return it if I have problems.

Is anyone else also facing that long shipping estimate? Do these Toshiba techs that come out to your house cost anything or they covered under the warranty…

Any thoughts/opinions on what I should do here? (cancel the order/take my chances)

Mine was slated for delivery around november 1. But when you look on their website, it says ships within 1-2 weeks. I emailed customer service and they said that it's a mistake and it should be delivered october 1 - 10. I'm just going to stick with it, even with all the problems. Hopefully I get one without problems :)

[mpark]

Originally posted by mpark
My serial number is 4708D0XXX. I got this off the box so I didn't see a build date but will check when I have time to turn the set around in my entertainment center. I have been happy with my set. It does have the geometry problem that you guys speak of when viewing SD but that doesn't bother me. The one thing it does do is it seems to degaus itself sometimes when you first turn it on. Tonight it did it for about a minute then was fine.
I'm feed it DVI through the HDMI connection from a Directv HD box. HD content looks fabulous.
This serial number above is correct on my set. I looked at the back and found it has a manufacturing date of June 2004. Very interesting...

[rubs]

Did anyone have their set inspected by support engineer for problems and what is the result?

Thanks
--rubs

[jonny2134]

well the repair guy came and according to him "theres nothing wrong with it". Apparently DVDs are supposed to reproduce those visible vertical lines even when connected with expensive component cables and even tho ive never seen such quality come from a DVD on any TV set ive ever laid my eyes on. He even went so far as to say that if he brought the set back for repair he would be laughed at by his colleagues. So needless to say im very disappointed that I spent alot of money on a set that I cant stand to look at and is "obviously" in working condition. My only hope now is that enough of these problems arise that Toshiba puts some kinda recall in effect for specific serial numbers.

[arthurking]

This is exactly what I am worrying about. Because the PQ sometimes is subjective, the tech guy can consider a TV normal while your eyes tell you the opposite. They can tell you every TV has the geometry problem and yours is still in normal scope or something like that. My request of service hasn't been answered yet. They are still waiting the service manual. I guess even after they come, they might tell me similar things you just heard. If I were you, I will keep calling Toshiba. If all these don't work, I will file complaint to BBB and FTC.

Originally posted by jonny2134
well the repair guy came and according to him "theres nothing wrong with it". Apparently DVDs are supposed to reproduce those visible vertical lines even when connected with expensive component cables and even tho ive never seen such quality come from a DVD on any TV set ive ever laid my eyes on. He even went so far as to say that if he brought the set back for repair he would be laughed at by his colleagues. So needless to say im very disappointed that I spent alot of money on a set that I cant stand to look at and is "obviously" in working condition. My only hope now is that enough of these problems arise that Toshiba puts some kinda recall in effect for specific serial numbers.

[jonny2134]

well he gave me the same reasoning I figured he would give me. He goes into a 5 minute speech about how stores have high powered signals and boosters all over the place to make the signal look good. I conceded that fact to him, but I tried to remind him that DVDs and XBOX games arent supposed to look grainy and messed up and those signals look the same anywhere. I fully intend to bring this issue to Toshiba yet again and I am going to have them escalate this issue as soon as possible. I am going to refuse to drop this issue until I see enough effort on their end to try and rectify this situation.

[jroche]

just curious, did you try it with another DVD player?

Originally posted by jonny2134
Apparently DVDs are supposed to reproduce those visible vertical lines even when connected with expensive component cables and even tho ive never seen such quality come from a DVD on any TV set ive ever laid my eyes on.

[jonny2134]

4 different DVD players, 2 progressive scan and 2 non ... 5 if you count the xbox. The lines show up when watching SD and HD channels as well so its gotta be the way the TV is displaying the picture.

[CrocHunter]

i hear you to that, it's not right that toshiba has these models out, it gives them a bad reputation, hell i'm surprised these things passed quality control.

In which they should'nt have.Bad Toshiba, means i won't buy from them anymore, if they keep up what they are doing.

[STEAMHL2]

Dear (name),



Thanks for writing!



We appreciate your interest in Toshiba.



There are no known issues with any of the models you listed. To obtain technical assistance, please call 1-800-631-3811.



Please write back if I can assist you further.



Rick

Toshiba Customer Service


This is in response to the letter I sent Toshiba addressing the known (apparently only among us consumers) issues of the 30HF84 model. How can they deny they exist when they can see it with their own eyes? Are they hoarding all the perfect models at their HQ? :rolleyes:

That's it. I am going to Wal-Mart to buy a Sanyo.
:)

[bconover1328]

Dear Toshiba,

I recently purchased a 30hf84 from amazon.com and it is the worst high
definition television I have ever seen or owned. To start off, the geometry of
the set is so inaccurate most vertical lines twist and turn about from top to
bottom. Adding to this is the fact there is an extreme amount of grain
whenever the color blue or gray is displayed. It makes solid colors look like
shimmering moving textures. My xbox and gamecube games, both fed through
component inputs, look worse then the 27" toshiba standard tv I was suppose to
be replacing with this set. There are so many pixelations around edges I get a
headache just looking at the screen. I have always been a strong believer in
your product and service, and have always opted to purchase a toshiba product
over others when possible. I am now deeply dismayed at not only the poor
quality of my new television, but also the complete lack of any help what so
ever in this regard.
Seeing as how I was duped into buying a "quality" toshiba product, I looked
to internet forums to see if other people had experienced similar negativities
with a 30hf84. Low and behold I have contacted over fifteen other people who
suffer the exact same symptons with their set as I do. We have come to the
conclusion, that whether through manufacturing defect or some other cause,
toshiba 30hf84 television sets with serial numbers resembling 9408C5XXX with
build dates of July 2004 do not live up to the standards set forth by your
company. They contain too many flaws for us, as consumers, to be happy with
your product. I am now requesting you take responsibility for the faulty
televisions we unfortunately purchased, and replace with either a newer build
of the 30hf84 or step down to a 30hf83.
I know this is not the only email you have recieved on this subject. I put
myself on a limb to purchase your product from a store with no return policy
because of the quality I have experienced in the past. I would hate to have to
be discouraged in such a manner never to purchase a product from you again.
Please do not reply with an automated response. I have contacted you in a
mature, concise manner, and think I am at least entitled to the same.

Saddly, maybe a last time ever toshiba customer.


Brandon Conover

[CrocHunter]

Me too man, no more toshiba for me unless they pull their act together.

Now i'm a panasonic man;)

[robbie06]

Does anyone know if the 30hf83 exhibit the same problems as the 30hf84? I've been checking prices on these two models, and the 83 model, which is last year's model its about $200-300 more expensive than this year's model. I'm thinking that Toshiba just cut some corners with the 84 model and that's why it has terrible picture quality

[Elite09]

Interesting to see how Toshiba will respond to that letter.

My tv is arrives tomorrow and I will post an indepth review of my findings. Hopefully everything will be ok.

[rubs]

we all have so many issues with this model and still i only see positive reviews on cnet :)

[akarz]

Sadly, I too have to agree with the others on the geometry issues. I cannot correct it with the limited options on the service menu.

I don't have the other problems though. HD still looks fantastic and my solution to the geometry problem is to run all 4:3 transmissions in TheaterWide 1 mode.

I would be interested in hearing from any one who has had some success dealing with Toshiba service, but that may be a long road.

Maybe we should add some "glowing" comments on the Amazon site as well ....

[Elite09]

Originally posted by akarz
Sadly, I too have to agree with the others on the geometry issues. I cannot correct it with the limited options on the service menu.

I don't have the other problems though. HD still looks fantastic and my solution to the geometry problem is to run all 4:3 transmissions in TheaterWide 1 mode.


But geometry problems are consistant on all direct view tv's. Some to a less extent than others.

[Shivan]

Let me know if anyone can get a hold of a real Toshiba engineer. Not a service guy, but a real design/signal processing eletrical engineer. I tried and tried to get an answer about the nasty red pixelization of my 34HF81, but was pretty much told to live with it.

Sounds very disappointing all around....the moral of the story is, get a Sony. I will probably sell my 34HF81 for a small fraction of what I paid for it. Such is life.

[bradolson]

The service guy just left my house. He definitely saw the problems, especially with the shadows/ghosting around nearly all leters - menus, credits, closed captions, etc...

He said he was going to go back to the shop, contact Toshiba to see if there are any known issues (which they will probably deny) and if Toshiba was no help, then he'd have to get the TV and take it to the shop to look at it.

The way I see things going is: Toshiba is no help and denies any problems, they take the TV to the shop and can't do anything about it, and then hopefully I get a working replacement. Otherwise Amazon better take it back (with free return shipping) or I am filing a credit card dispute and hopefully get my money back.

[arthurking]

My 30HF84 has almost exactly the same problems described in bconover1328's letter to Toshiba. I am still waiting the coming of the service guy. But based on other guys' experience in this thread, I think he will not be any helpful to me. I am still thinking what I should do next if that is true. But if I can't get satisfactory results from Toshiba, I will definitely file complaint to BBB and FTC, as well as leave negative reviews on any message boards or store review boards I can access on Toshiba and this 30HF84.

[jonny2134]

What makes matters worse is that picture quality is very subjective. What someone may consider acceptable quality for a high end tv may be absurd to another. Its because of this reason that I refuse to just let the issue burn out. I am already planning on having yet another technician come to my house for the sole purpose of fixing the geometry issue. The guy who came yesterday had no clue how to do it so he called another guy on his cell phone but he had a hard time following directions over the phone. He even said that there is a problem with the way the ribbon is connecting to the tube. So I said to him "ok so there is a problem with the ribbon ... get it fixed." His response was "Well what do you want me to do? This is how the tv was made, this is what its supposed to look like"

I was shocked, one second he is telling me something is wrong with it and then he is telling me thats how its supposed to be if thats how they made it and shipped it. Hellllllo ... ever hear the word "defective"?? Obviously I am over exaggerating as I am sure he knows what the problem is but my concern is why does it seem like no one cares about this issue?

[kreisman]

Well, I'm lucky to not have the severity of problems that you guys do. I do find that on 4:3 programs, the bars aren't 100% perfect. But you have to look closely to see it, and on HD programs, its not an issue at all. Remember, this is a $700 set, a ridiculously low price for HD.

One thing I have found is that the set is set at such overly bright parameters, it emphasizes and increases distortion. It is clearly blooming. I wonder if you turn down the brightness and contrast, if it makes any difference.

Also, some have made mention here of getting into the service menu by turning the volume down to zero, and then holding down the 9 key for three seconds. That sure doesn't work on my set. It just changes the input to antenna, and puts the tuner on channel 9. Is mine the only one that does that?

I've found slightly better HD picture using the HDMI connection. My serial number is in the same range as others here.

[akarz]

Originally posted by kreisman
Also, some have made mention here of getting into the service menu by turning the volume down to zero, and then holding down the 9 key for three seconds. That sure doesn't work on my set. It just changes the input to antenna, and puts the tuner on channel 9. Is mine the only one that does that?


Are you using the volume control under the front panel on the tv set in combination with "9" on the remote.

[cjgilan]

went to Consumer Direct Warehouse (a Toshiba dealer with a store in Raleigh NC and they have not had any problems with the 30HF84's or the 34hf84's I looked at them in the show room and the pq was great!
I was told not to worry about any problems, they would switch out any defective units within 30 days of purchase and Toshiba would recall sets if the problem was widespread. I know it is inconvenient but I believe Toshiba will stand behind their product. In my experience with Toshiba and Sony, Toshiba has the better overall pq and the cost dif is large. Best buy here is selling the unit for 899.99 with 10% off this week and Consumer Direct Warehouse is selling it for 771.99 the price is much lower than last years model they have one on the floor for 989.99 that they paid 900 for and will let go for 717

[rubs]

I have support engineer came today and he feels that PQ is great and there is no geometry issues...he says that vertical lines in 4:3 will not be straight (not as design but as are)..also i was not able to reproduce the middle screen shaking while watching tennis as it was only on that day...he advice me to switch off the svm to solve the character issue...for espnhd he says that they are not broadcasting in HD.....for poor quality on cable channels be put the blame on comcast box......for vertical lines while watching he put the blame on dvd player+rf cables and told me to go for good dvd +component cables :)

--rubs

[Elite09]

Rubs, does the shaky picture happen quite often? Daily? How did it look with SVM off? I read that you should turn that off on another board as well.
Also, how does the HD channels look?

[rubs]

i only saw shaky picture while watching US OEPN on cbd hdtv and didn't see afterwards or any other channel..hdtv channels are good....need to adjust contrast and brightness...factory settings were horrible.....

[Dsung]

Hello Everyone,
I just recieved this TV from Amazon about two hours ago. I've been reading this forum for the last few weeks, and have been pretty scared to get my TV. However, so far I really like my Toshiba 30HF84. I looked at the serial number and it is the same as the one you guys were talking about... the July one. I've noticed only the slighest bend on the left side when in 4:3 mode. Still playing with it, but seems pretty good. But then again, i'm completely a TV noob. Oh, I also have white pillars when in 4:3 mode instead of black.. odd.

[kreisman]

akarz - Thanks for the input. I was using the volume on the remote. When using the volume on the set, it does go into service mode as you said. NOw, is there a manual posted somewhere that gives what the various parameters are for?

dsung - I also have white (actually light gray) bars when in 4:3 mode. I'm not sure why Toshiba did this....perhaps somebody's idea of having less burn in, but it should not be an issue. When watching HD stations that are broadcasting in 4:3 mode (non HD), you then get black bars. Go figure.


rubs - Your service guy is right, at least when it comes to DVD. Using the RF connection reduces the picture quality almost to the level of a VCR. No reason to use those connections. Its also true that on non-digital stations (those from 2-99 on Comcast), the picture sucks. I have a $10,000 front projection set, and have looked at many that cost far more. They all stink on analogue channels....perhaps even worse than a non-HD set.

[Granger]

I'm not sure if my situation is similar but here it goes.

I purchased my 34HFX84 a week ago. Upon setting it up here is what I noticed:

4:3 SD viewing, the bars on the left and the right are not the same size top to bottom. i.e. the left bar is fatter at the top then the bottom. geometry issue I guess.

All broadcasts: the tilt adjustment I had to make in the user menu seemed extreme, currently my tv is set to -8 tilt to adjust for the problem.

Toshiba is sending a tech out next week to look at the problem. I am heading home soon to grab my serial number so maybe that will shed some light on the issue (plus, toshiba needs this number before they will send a tech).

Am I naive to think that in 4:3 I should have no geometry issues at all? I feel that the bars should be close to uniform and there should little to no need for a tilt adjustment.

Picture quality seems ok to my untrained eye. DVD's look crisp and Monday night football looked incredible! I also watched tennis in HD twice since I have had my set. The first time I could find no faults at all in the picture. The second time the lines on the court (horiz) seemed fuzzy but this looked the same in SD so I chalked that up to a bad broadcast.

Any information on my problems would be greatly appreciated and I will keep eveyone posted with what happens with the tech.

-Granger

[cadams]

Focusing on the geometry issues; I am planning on getting this TV because it's a good price and it fits my current entertainment center and I plan on using it in the bedroom down the road when I get a DLP when it gets all their kinks out. I plan on watching all 4:3 content in Theater Wide 16:9. Would these issues come into play at that point? The wife won't allow video game systems downstairs and the only things hooked up to it will be a Sony Progressive DVD player and the Comcast HD box (and the PVR box if they aren't converged by the end of October here in South Jersey). So do all of you have the other issues like lines and crappy picture or is it just this geometry issue that looks to only effect a 4:3 image?

[Granger]

I should have been clearer. I can't say that the goemetery issue only affects 4:3, because of the bars in 4:3 mode I noticed the geometry issue.

I don't think i am having any of the picture quality issues that others are having but as I mentioned before I am new to HDTV and there is a strong chance that I am simply not noticing quality issues as I have never had anything to compare it to.

[cadams]

Granger, I wasn't singling you out specifically. I'm probably in the same boat as you as far as noticing picture quality. My current TV is a JVC 27" which is fine TV and moving ino the bedroom when I get this. I just really want football in HD and to watch DVD in the widescreen format and completely accpet the fact that SD will look grainy but my viewing distance will be about 9 feet from the screen so it should not look much worse than my TV now.

[rubs]

Question about Dvd : while watching movie in dvd should tv shows it in 16:9 in natural mode or we still need to change the pic mode to theater mode. In my case in natural it shows dvd in 4:3 and i need to change the tv settings to see it in 16:9

Thanks
--rubs

[Elite09]

Originally posted by rubs
Question about Dvd : while watching movie in dvd should tv shows it in 16:9 in natural mode or we still need to change the pic mode to theater mode. In my case in natural it shows dvd in 4:3 and i need to change the tv settings to see it in 16:9

Thanks
--rubs

Set your dvd to 16:9 and the tv should be left in full, i believe.

[rubs]

i tried setting dvd to 16:9 but still the same issue..it is not working properly in natural mode and i am forced to use theater mode. can someone try on their tv

--rubs

[hurtz777]

In order to watch any 16:9 480P/720P/1080i content in it's original 16:9 format the Toshiba has to be set to FULL mode. Natural mode is for 4:3 content to be viewed in it's original 4:3 format which will make the grey bars on the left and right side of the picture on 4:3 content.

[Granger]

Here is my serial number:

20900XXX mfg 8/2004

[widescreenman]

Originally posted by robbie06
Does anyone know if the 30hf83 exhibit the same problems as the 30hf84? I've been checking prices on these two models, and the 83 model, which is last year's model its about $200-300 more expensive than this year's model. I'm thinking that Toshiba just cut some corners with the 84 model and that's why it has terrible picture quality



The 30hf83 seems to have more technology than the 30hf84 when you compare their features. Here are the main differences:

30hf83

Microfilter Advanced CRT Colour Technology
Lavender Shadow Mask
Dual Tuner Double Window Picture in Picture (PIP)
Multi-Window (9) Picture in Picture (PIP)
Dynamic Quadruple Focus
Flesh Tone Control
Picture Modes (Movie/Sports)
MultiScan HD POP
Picture in Picture (PIP) Audio Output
33-Watt Audio Output
Dual RF Terminal
DVI 1.0 with HDCP

30hf84

INVAR Shadow Mask
HD TheatreWide™ Modes (480i,480p/1080i
Tilt Correction
BBE Audio Enhancement
22-Watt Audio Output

[akarz]

Not necessarily true if you go by brochureware alone

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-Dq38OXmUdnW/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?a=&s=0&cc=01&g=154150&id=detailed_info&i=05230HF84

has more detailed information on the 30hf84 feature set.

[Granger]

Widescreenman,
I think the Invar Shadow mask is on the 83 not the 84.

EDIT: this is probably on both sets, just left out of the detailed description on Toshiba's site. widescreenman, please forgive me :D

[Granger]

verbage aside, I doubt there is a huge difference between the sets. But I don't speak techy, so I will probably be corrected shortly.

[Granger]

Let me say that I am sorry for breaking my posts up into mini-posts just so I could put up a link. :-)

Here is the specs on both units:


www..tacp.toshiba.com/televisions/product.asp?model=30hf83
www.tacp.toshiba.com/televisions/product.asp?model=30hf84

[boden11]

Got the tv, some geometry issues in 4:3 (noticeable with the gray bars which are horrible). Looks fine in HD. SD quality is acceptable--from what I hear any SD stuff on an HD set won't look as good. Only thing is that PQ in HD seems a little grainy (like especially true on Heat). I don't know if this is because of the DVD or the tv. But I noticed changing some settings seems to help. Some DVDs did look better than others (like Shrek really looked awesome) so it could be the limitation of the dvd (?) and the encoding methods. I dunno.

What settings do you guys use for your contrast/picture/tint/ etc. I would like to try out some.

[widescreenman]

Originally posted by akarz
Not necessarily true if you go by brochureware alone



has more detailed information on the 30hf84 feature set.

sorry. I was using specifications from toshiba.ca, which is obviously incomplete.

Still, something must be different if the 83 hasnt had the problems of the 84.

[lightflash]

So is the 30hf84 a good HDTV?

[netdoctor]

I really wanted this TV as it's small size will fit in my armoir in my bedroom perfectly. I like the picture on Toshibas as well as I have a 56H80 in the family room fed with Directv and HD and really "tuned up". Well after reading the horror stories here I decided to pay the extra $100 and get it from the Best Buy so I could take it back if need be. They had the Sony, Samsung, Philips & Toshiba 30" all in row; nice for comparison. Personally I think the Toshiba is the best looking from a cosmetic standpoint; very small cabinet surrounding the tube. They only feed them RF so you really can't judge picture quality there anyway.

I get the thing home and it's the same July build series as some of the others here. But, it looks really good! I guess I got lucky. I fed it progressive scan DVD through component as well as HD and it has a pretty impressive picture. I can see what some of you mean when watching SD in 4:3 mode as the edge of the gray bar isn't perfect, but I stretch everything in TW1 mode anyway. Kind of paranoid about CRT burn in. That's one of the beauties of Toshibas stretch modes. I think it upconverts SD as well as any of the other HD sets I've looked at.

So it's time for the Avia disk, so I can check geometry. I did this in Full mode only so far. The grid was a little left and pushed up a bit, but nothing that couldn't be corrected in SM. Oversan was about 8-10%, so I put that back to about 4%. News channel tickers are nice and straight.

So I think this one is a keeper. I took the time to document all the SM values and you can see the changes I made in the attachment. As long as you document your settings and stay away from the chroma oriented settings you shouldn't get into any trouble and hopefully you can straighten out your geometry issues. Maybe, I'll take a look at 4:3 mode tonight and see if I can clean that up as well.

I feel for those of you who got bad sets and appreciate the heads up, but I don't think we can write Toshiba off just yet.

Craig

[SSJLaletas]

Thanks for the post netdoctor, and also for the sm values that will help down the road. :)

[rubs]

netdoctor,

as compare to ur picture settings after avia, support engineer change the settings as following:

Brightness 22
Contrast 20
color 17
tint 0
sharpness 20

--rubs

[arthurking]

Today I also tested my gamecube and dreamcast gaming picture (connected via s-video). The pictures have all those terrible jags. I can tell you how jaggy it is: it will make a straight line looks a bunch of tilted short lines stacked together. Ps2 and xbox 480i and 480P gaming pictures are almost unbearable because of the jaggy outlines and grainy pictures. 720P Soul Caliber 2 on xbox looks good though. It seems I am really unlucky to get this TV. The worse thing is the time that the service guy will come is postponed AGAIN to next week.
I must repeat it again: THIS IS THE WORST TV I EVER SAW. PERIOD.
Good luck to people who are still interested in this TV. I am still in my deepest regret! I should buy the TV from a place that can allow the return and I should not believe any brand before I actually see it.

[bjohn]

Well, I emailed toshiba using their website and included a link to this forum.
A nice CSR supervisor from Toshiba called me and said she read the problems on the forum and she will be forwarding the link of this forum to their technical group. Maybe Toshiba will acknowledge the problem.

P.S I haven't got the TV yet, hope mine's a good one :)

[boden11]

I can attribute the excess grain I was experiencing to the fact that I was watching Heat...hehehe (oops!). Played some other stuff and generally the quality looks pretty good for HD (Component). 4:3 normal is kinda crappy because of the gray (ugly) bars which are off because of the geometry. In theaterwide mode 1 picture looks fine. I have a Toshiba 665 HiFi 4hd VCR connected (RCA only, no SVideo on this VCR) and picture is ok, not amazing, but it's a SD VCR connected through RCA cables to an HDTV, so what did I expect.

I don't game, so no Xbox or PS2 (bought this like 80% for watching DVDs and 20% for TV shows--I have the LVD-2002 dvd player). Only a few things left I wanna try, that is mainly to get an HDTV cable box and check out the quality. Charter is available in my area and right now they're offering like everything for 32.99/month for 3 months (then it's nearly $70/month on top of >$30/month for cable internet). 1.4GB Xvids look pretty good, well done 700MB ones look good also. All in all I'd rate the PQ on HD as like an 8/10, audio is pretty good, probly almost 9/10, I can't really grade SD as I haven't anything to compare it to and RCA is a joke. I'm actually fairly satisfied. $715 for a nice sized tv that will play DVDs perfectly. As long as it works pretty well once connected to HD Cable I'll be more than happy.

Almost seems like every movie needs its own settings though, I can't really blame this on the tv. Went to a local tv place and compared scenes with the 'reference' Sony 34XBR960 and of course the sony was a little sharper, but nothing amazing. Settings seemed more dialed in for the Sony (and the guy even messed a bunch with the settings when switching from A Bug's Life to Fight Club, I mean a bunch). Though the sony definitely had a much nicer menu navigation for setup.

[cadams]

So Best Buy feeds to CRT's a signal throgh the RF tuner? That would be good news for me because I was checking out the 30HF83 and the Sharp 30" LCD and the Toshiba looked like absolute crap compared to just about anything else in the store.

[kreisman]

Thanks, netdoctor. While those settings ar a little bright for my installation, I still appreciate it. Need to setup Avia myself. Issue is that different sources may need different settings.

One thing I noticed that is interesting is comparing the SD version vs the HD version of the same channel. For example, I can get the SD version of ABC and the HD version - two different channels. WHen an SD show is played (not high-definition), the sizes of the bars changes dramatically depending on which station is watched.

For example, on my set (Comcast), I watch the local news on channel 7, and the bars on left and right are quite large...about 3 inches on each side. Yet, I watch the same show on channel 180 (HD version of channel 7 showing non-HD program), and the bars on each side are now only about 1-1/2 inches on each side. I can't change the channels fast enough (or get a non-moving image) to see exactly what is happening, but it appears the HD station is showing a wider image, even when non-HD.

So, is the image actually cut-off on the SD channcel? Is there a way to change the overscan in the natural mode? I'm unclear what parameters would be used for this, as H Size moves the bars wider and narrower, but doesn't change overscan...just stretches or narrows the picture. Parameter 8 does the same thing, but for whatever seems to be less disruptive to the picture. What specifically controls overscan?

Thanks

[boden11]

After using the tv for a while and trying out a whole spectrum of dvds I've got to say the PQ of HD (480p DVD) is pretty darn good. The only real complaint I have (besides the geometry which is exacerbated with 4:3) is that it feels like I have to adjust the picture settings for all sorts of movies. Like how I got it (20/21/29/0/20) works great for most darker movies. Like Alien 1-4 looks great in it, Se7en, even LOTR trilogy, Ronin and Heat. But other more vibrant/light movies and everything looks a little dull. The built in 'standard' setting works pretty good for these movies actually. Like mostly outside movies and brighter scenes and it looks better with the contrast (or whatever the 2nd setting is) bumped to like almost 40 even and then adjusting the others a tad to compensate.

There are some geometry issues in HD 16:9 movies but its barely noticeable. One scene I noticed was in American Pie when Stifler puts that laxative in S'brick's coffee and he's talking with the lacrosse player. Well the background has a bunch of lockers and if you look for it you can notice the skewed lines. Not major, but still subtle. Anyways for the money it still feels like a great tv and if I ever get the huevos I can probably adjust the advanced settings and tune in the geo some.

Would still like to try out like a PS2 or Xbox with component and see how it looks. I figure these older gameboxes might not have such great output which could be why some people are having issues...I'd imagine the PS3 and X2 would look a lot better. (As most SD stuff doesn't look so spectacular on HD). Also I'm gonna have my cable company hook up some HD Cable channels (including HBO SD and Showtime HD). I'll update you when this is setup with how it looks.

[Inundated]

I was ----><---- this close to pulling the trigger on that low-cost Amazon deal, but this thread convinced me not to do so.

I love my 32" Toshiba SD set...and am feeding HD (downconverted) content to it right now. I was hoping this set would be the "natural successor" to it, but too bad it probably will not be, at least until the issues surrounding it settle down.

[Elite09]

Well, I finally received my 30HF84 today. After about an hour and a half of inspecting and wiring all components I was ready to go.

Bell Expressvu 6100 HD receiver through component input #1.
Sony PS DVD player through component input #2
(I am still waiting on a DVI-HDMI cable to be delivered)

First thing I tune into was CSI on CBS-HD. Absolutley stunning picture. WOW. On commercial breaks I did notice a slight geometry problem. I did however have to change the tilt to -2 to fix. Now everything is straight and center. I then flipped to Soundstage on PBS-HD and the picture was good but not a clean and crisp as CSI. Medical Investigation looked amazing as well on NBC. After an hour of flipping through these shows, I went to the DVD player.

I first changed the DVD settings to 16:9 and the tv settings to full. I popped in A Bugs Life and it looked real real good. After that I put in T2 and the picture looked good. No compaints with the HD or the DVD.

My # is 4708 and build in June. The menus will take a while to get used too, but I am very very very happy with the purchase and I have faith in Toshiba. I can't wait till Sunday to watch some Football in HD.

I still can't get over how good CSI looked.

[pduffy]

I wanted to post an update on my Toshiba. I ended up taking my HDTV back to Best Buy. Although I considered exchanging the HDTV for another one, I just wasn't feeling good about it. As luck would have it, I saw another "open box" model that was returned by someone at Best Buy. That coupled with posts about non-cooperative service technicians helped push me toward giving up on this HDTV altogether. Toshiba is generally a good company and makes good products, but I think there are definitely serious QA problems going on with these HDTVs.

My apologies for not posting my serial number. I forgot to look before I brought it back. I'm pretty sure it's the same batch that everyone else has from July.

On another note, I ended up buying a Sony 30XS955 as a replacement. I'd post a comparison here, but I'd probably depress everybody because the Sony totally blew me away. Maybe my Toshiba was just that bad... heck, maybe I got one that fell off the truck and rolled around a little bit. One thing is for sure, the awful PS2 picture quality on my Toshiba via component cables was definitely a problem with the HDTV. The Sony 30XS955 displays the picture perfectly.

[rukkus]

You guys are killing me! I was so excited when I ordered my 30HF84 from amazon. All I read here was great reviews on Toshiba HDTVs. This is my first one.

Right now my order is in the "About to be shipped, too late to cancel" state. I am thinking that I should to try to call Amazon and ask them to halt the shipping and if they can't maybe I can refuse the package to receive a refund. They tell you on the website regarding 27"+ TVs, that you have to inspect them and then refuse delivery if you are not satisfied or else you can no longer return them.

I am very tempted to try and cancel and just go to CC and buy either the KV-27HS420 or the KV-30HS420 instead. :/ Man! This is frustrating!

[lightflash]

:confused: :eek:What do you think ,will the ones from amazon be getting better?

[jroche]

My amazon order was delayed again thankfully, which gives me a chance to hear some more feedback w/ time to cancel. I keep hearing good reviews of this set elsewhere and from several friends. I'm wondering if this is just a bad batch. Anyway, please keep reporting your findings...

[lightflash]

I hope to order one too ,how is the shipping from amazon?

[rukkus]

Well I spoke with Amazon. My TV shipped already, but I can still "return" the TV by refusing delivery. You have to setup the refusal with Amazon though and are required to pay the shipping charge back. I am guessing around $69.

I don't know what to do ; / I feel like I should just spend the extra cash on a Sony.

[boden11]

Would like to fix my geometry--is this possible in the advanced mode? Or will I need to call a tech who knows what he's dong. Would he even be able to fix it or will there be a substantial amount remaining?? Am I stuck with it or what.

[CrocHunter]

Lesson learned, always do more research before pulling the trigger.
I learned my lesson, and always see a tv in person, never buy blindly.

[Elite09]

My Toshiba 30HF84 is fine. HD looks amazing. Great TV for the money. I am sure that the ones Arthur and Rubs have will be fixed or replaced by Toshiba.

[Elite09]

Originally posted by CrocHunter
Lesson learned, always do more research before pulling the trigger.
I learned my lesson, and always see a tv in person, never buy blindly.

Did you end up buying the Toshiba?

[Bones10]

I took the advice of some posters here and canceled my Amazon order and bought the 30HFX84 instead (yeah, about $250 more, but I got it from a store where i can return it if I have problems, and I wanted picture and picture). Looking forward to hooking it up tonight.

[lightflash]

sorry!

[Bones10]

Originally posted by lightflash
30hf83 has pip but 30hf84 does not!

Not sure if you were referring to me with your post, but the 30HFX84 (note the X) is the cinema series and is slightly different than the 30HF84. (cinema series has PAP, different cabinet, few other differences).

[arthurking]

Just a small update. I am still waiting a call from Toshiba service center after > 5 calls and > 10 days.

[CrocHunter]

It was a philips that i made the mistake with, it had no 3:2 pulldown whicj is a must for hdtv's and the picture quality was really grainy with my dvd's.

I will never get a philips again, only japanese models for now on.They are the best...PERIOD!!!

[YesJim]

Originally posted by robbie06
Does anyone know if the 30hf83 exhibit the same problems as the 30hf84? I've been checking prices on these two models, and the 83 model, which is last year's model its about $200-300 more expensive than this year's model. I'm thinking that Toshiba just cut some corners with the 84 model and that's why it has terrible picture quality

I bought my 30hf83 in January and have had no issues with it whatsover. As discussed in this thread, there IS a geometry issue with 4:3 material that comes over the HD channels (via a Comcast/Motorola DCT5100 with component cables), and possibly if I were to use the "natural" mode to watch SD material (Which i don't do. Ever. The TW1 setting is just fine for SD material). SD quality varies depending on the signal provided but is on average a tad worse than a normal 4:3 TV. HD looks astounding to me, with slight variations of quality again coming from the broadcaster (ABC & ESPN 720p signals and CBS's 1080i signals look good. NBC's 1080i is suspect as is Fox's 720p).

At least I feel that the extra $$$ I coughed up compared to the 30hf84 seems justified now!

[jonny2134]

Well its been a few days since I was able to browse the forums. There isnt much to update as I havent been able to get Toshiba to call me back or even respond to my emails. I have come to realize certain things about my set in the last few days. First, the pic still looks kinda crappy on SD channels but thats just the way my reception is. My parents have a Panasonic HDTV downstairs and even they have bad PQ on channels that arent HD. So I am content with the regular channels lookin that way because there is nothing you can do about it.

Secondly I think my TV is on crack. DVDs and video games look like crap but there are some instances where the PQ is just astounding. For instance while watching football on CBS HD yesterday the PQ was bad, ive never seen such bad quality on a tv before actually. The colors were just all blurry and it was nearly impossible to tell which people were on which team. And in some cases the tv programs look horrible but the commercials look great. Are you serious? I have 2 channels that look excellent all of the time: Bravo and ESPN. There PQ on these channels are what I bought the tv for. That makes me ask myself this question tho "Why does this tv only work properly for 2 channels?" Its obvious the tv can actually do what its supposed to, but only in extreme conditions. Maybe the signal is just not that great, and I guess if that were the case then I could deal with it.

But I still cannot explain the lack of quality on my XBOX and my DVDs. The DVDs should be the most reliable source of HQ movies but its not. Perhaps I really am just using a really bad DVD player but Im not so sure thats the case.

[Elite09]

What are all your settings at?

As for DVD, you may see some grain in some movies, that is normal. The best looking DVD for me thus far was Toy Story.

[jonny2134]

Im very sure the settings arent whats effecting the PQ on DVDs. When the picture is dark I just have visible vertical bars goin across the screen. Inside the bars it looks like it is "snowy" and because I have ~60 of these lines it causes everything to look that way.

Its hard to recall from memory but to the best of my knowledge i use memory mode and have:

brightness: 27
contrast: 50 (max)
tint: 0
sharpness: 15

the above settings were obtained via a DVD THX optimizer

SVM off
temperature at normal
film mode
1080i

[rubs]

since the support enginner made some changes in setting and i bought new dvd player + component cables, dvd looks great all the vertical lines are gone....hd channels also look good......also he told me never to watch SD in 4:3 as it will burn the side and always use theater wide 1...and following are the setting
brightness : 22
contrast: 20
tint : 0
sharpness 25
SVM off
film mode 1080i

Somehow i am now start liking this TV:)

Thanks
--rubs

[Elite09]

Originally posted by jonny2134

Its hard to recall from memory but to the best of my knowledge i use memory mode and have:

brightness: 27
contrast: 50 (max)
tint: 0
sharpness: 15

the above settings were obtained via a DVD THX optimizer

SVM off
temperature at normal
film mode
1080i

I would change the contrast for starters. You should try to aviod a big setting there. Try to get something that works in the 20-25 range if possible.

Did you try a different DVD player or different cables? It seemed to work for Rubs. It is weird that some channels look better than others for you. Maybe a cable issue again. What format are ESPN and Bravo in compaired to CBS etc?

[boden11]

I called Toshiba tech. support today and was given the Name/# of an auth. local center to call for service. Called them and it looks like they will come out on the 27th to fix (hopefully) the geometry issues. Also, if anyone has The Family Guy on DVD could you try playing this and see if you have weird interlacing issues? I tried switching from 480p to 480i and it didn't make a difference. Though I didn't try switching from upconverted 1080i to 540p (forgot about this). Basically with The Family Guy there were 2 issues. One was since it was 4:3 it was in a smaller window (a square) and the left and right side had obvious geometry issues. Secondly it was having issues with displaying (like showing interlaced/non interlaced material).

I know both my DVD Player *AND* the tv do 3:2 pulldown and all that...could this be messing it up? All normal movies/shows look fine in Theaterwide 1. I'll also try switching to 540p as upconverting to 1080i could be causing interlacing issues.

I'll let you know what happens after tech support comes out. I really like the tv and for 80-90% of what I watch there are no issues, but I still have some distortion like with quick pans across scenes with lots of lines or a pan across a scene with similar coloring the image will warp. Fairly subtle tho. Am curious as to what will happen if Toshiba is unable to remedy this to a satisfactory level. --What other 30-34" TVs would be a good replacement? Price range of like no more than $1,100 or close to that. Would rather have a nice PQ for a 30" than a 34" with only OK PQ with an emphasis on 16:9 HD PQ (DVD Viewing)

[arthurking]

interesting. Which model did you get? actually now I am willing to get my Philips 30PW850H back because my 30HF84 really stinks!

Originally posted by CrocHunter
It was a philips that i made the mistake with, it had no 3:2 pulldown whicj is a must for hdtv's and the picture quality was really grainy with my dvd's.

I will never get a philips again, only japanese models for now on.They are the best...PERIOD!!!

[boden11]

Figured out Family Guy, had to set my dvd player to 4:3 LB and then use Theaterwide 1 and set my dvd player to 480i while upconverting to 1080i. Then it looked fine. Oh well.

[CrocHunter]

The model i had was the 30" 30pw8402 model, it had very grainy picture from my dvd's and it had blooming issues with the contrast setting.

It's a good thing i bought it somewhere where you can get a refund otherwise i would have been stuck with it.

The model i'm interested in getting now is the panasonic 34" CT-34WX54, i couldn't get the sony because my entertainment center can only hold 200lbs max.And that sony would be pushing it, because i have other gear to put on it too.

Did you see the panny by the way, how did it look?

[rukkus]

Any updates from anyone? I have to inform Amazon today if I'd like to start the return process with Eagle. Not sure what the big process is, I just have to refuse delivery and possibly have the shipping fee to send it back deducted from my refund.

I went to the local BB last night and checked out the TV and I must say it looked like crap, but it was also getting a horrible feed. The Sony 420's looked quite nice though, even with a bad feed. I just don't know if they looked around 350$ more better.

[Elite09]

I have had 4 days to review my 30HF84 and I am impressed.

I hooked up my Bell Expressvu 6100 HD receiver throught a DVI-HDMI cable and it looks great on HD. I have to use AVIA to adjust the settings but wow. Football blew me away. CSI:Miami last night was great eye candy.

Through Component #1 I have my Sony PS DVD Player. I watched bits of alot of my movies as well rented The Punisher and Mean Girls. (Wife's Choice on the 2nd). Both movies looked great! Of the ones I tested, Bring it On had some grain on the picture and so did American Wedding. My wife didn't notice, but I noticed some grain on the picture. All other movies looked great.

Through Component #2 I have my Sony Playstation 2 hooked up. No problems with games or movies. Same movies as above had the same grain and the other looked good. I have concluded that the grain issue is with the DVD's, not the tv. Confirmed on my 32" Sony downstairs.

Video Input #1 is Bell Expressvu 6100 through S-Video. Honest opinion is that some of the SD channels look bad. Stretch modes are great on the Toshiba but some of the SD is hard to watch. The picture was tolorabe on my old 32" Sony, but a little worse on the Toshiba. I think because it has twice the lines of resolution. This could be the problem of what people see in Best Buy, etc. Crappy SD being shown.

Video #2 is from my receiver and I have not used yet.

Overall, I am very very very impressed with what this TV can do in HD and for my gaming and DVD movie needs. The SD however, can be pretty bad on certian channels for me. Expressvu SD is not the greatest to begin with. I had to make a -2 tilt adjustment when I got the tv and I have measured the geometry. the right side is off by 1mm on the bottom. i used a ruler to measure the 4:3 lines. It is not noticeable at all. I am very impressed with this tv and would recommend it to poeple who watch alot of HD programs and or watch DVD movies. My only beef is the SD channels but I know the source (Bell Expressvu) is at fault.

[rubs]

rukkus,

I recommend u to think twice before cancelling this order....it works fine after some tuning and most of HDTV in market are not good in showing SD and this is good in HD and DVD. We can all play with this and have some general recommendation about settings that can help everyone

Thanks
--rubs

[mbonn]

My experience with this set wasn't good. I gought mine from Best buy with a manufacturing date of June 2004. I really liked the size and the HDMI input so that I could hook up a DVD player with DVI output.

Initially I set it up with component cables and a Panasonic player. I was really dissapointed. The image seemed out of focus with shadows and excessive graininess. My 27" SD Daewoo TV with component inputs looked far better. Also there was a distortion going right through the middle of the screen so that any vertical images would distort as they went through the middle one inch of the screen.

So I ordered the Momitsu V880DX DVD player which has DVI output and is highly regarded as giving spectacular artifact free pictures. It outputs directly at 1080i and has the ability to turn off macrovision and region settings. So I got the HDMI-DVI cable from Monster cable and hooked it up and realized it was the TV causing the distortion, graniness, and out of focus look. I switched to the Daewoo and the picture was spectacular except for the obvious scan lines of the 480i display.

I returned the TV to Best Buy (they didn't even ask why) and I'm left wondering which way to turn. I didn't want a replacement and I definitely have learned from this experience to buy something in a local store so I can return the goods.

So far the biggest frustration is going to a store where they actually hook the thing up to a source where you would say " wow, great pciture I want to buy it." I tried CC and was impressed with the 30" Panasonic and Sony sets. I also thought about getting a 30" HD CRT computer monitor that outputs 1280X720 but some people on this site don't really like the Monivision sets. Again I want to see the thing before I buy.

Thanks for all the great posts, this is my first.

[rukkus]

I noticed pretty extreme geometry issues with the center of the screen of the 30HF84 at best buy. I currently have a Sony WEGA 27" regular old TV that I love... no geometry or color issues.. DVDs look amazing in the "enchanced 16:9 mode" even w/out pro scan on my Panny RV31. I want an HD for video games and football though...

I think I am going to cancel it and buy the Sony. Stick with what you know I guess...

It's too bad, what a deal the Toshiba could have been.

I tried to convince myself at Best Buy that the picture wasn't that bad compared to the Sony 420 series.

I wish I could have it for a few days to calibrate and make a judgement for myself, but it just doesn't work that way with Amazons return policy... puts you in between a rock and a hardplace. I can either pay 69$ to refuse shipment or possibly be stuck with a 716$ TV that doesn't even outperform my old one.

[arthurking]

rukkus, I think you did a right thing.
I am stuck here! I am deeply regretting!
I just finished several calls argueing with Toshiba's one CSR and 2 supervisors. The calls lasted about 1 hour. Basically, they said the service manual is still not available(my local service center needs that if my TV needs repair) and they insist if the service guy considers my TV normal, I need to pay the coming-out service. Is it normal? well, after two weeks' waiting, I still need to wait maybe another 1-2 weeks to just have somebody to take a look at my TV.
I remember there was somebody who mentioned in this thread that he requested a service for his 30HF84 and the service guy thought the TV is OK. Did you pay for this?
There is no use to argue with them. This lesson is hard.

[rubs]

service guy came last week and he didn't mention anything about payment and i assume we have 1 year warranty on this set for parts/labor and then why we have to pay

thanks
--rubs

[arthurking]

That's exactly what I thought previously. But I talked with one CSR and two supervisors, they all told me the same thing: they will perform in-home service at no cost only to the TVs with defects. In other words, if the technician comes and considers my TV normal, then I have to pay the technician for his coming. I also thought it is ridiculous because the Toshiba TV carries one-year in-home service for parts/labor. But they are stubborn at this and I really don't know how to argue with them. I had no choice but call the local service center that I am willing to pay their coming if they find no problem with my TV. However, I am still waiting the local service center to get the service manual for this TV.
This is the most ridiculous thing I heard about this TV's warranty. I think I am just out of luck and I am screwed by Toshiba.


Originally posted by rubs
service guy came last week and he didn't mention anything about payment and i assume we have 1 year warranty on this set for parts/labor and then why we have to pay

thanks
--rubs

[Elite09]

Arthur,

I think you are reading too much into it. From what you post, your tv is defective. A tech will see that and fix or replace the tv. It is under warranty, so it will be fixed.

On my old Sony, I have to get a tech to come and fix three times. Not once did I worry that I had to pay because I knew the tv was defective.

I wouldn't worry so much. Toshiba has good customer service. They will take care of you.

[rubs]

since the service guy don't think that tv is defective do they will send me bill later on ...

[boden11]

You should have your Avia disc ready for when the tech comes. There's a couple images with like a bunch of squares and it *REALLY* emphasizes any geometry issues the tv might have. It's very obvious that none of the squares are true...mine all have a sort of wave back and forth (tilt doesn't do anything for this). Also like with scrolling credits you can see the distortion come into effect. Other good examples are like when an image pans up on a building or any vertical pans on something with no motion or a grid (like brick buildings, hotels with windows, etc). Picture goes into a warp. While normal viewing might not show any problems, with the Avia tests for geometry it's pretty dang obvious and I don't think any tech can say that that's expected for a BRAND NEW model HDTV with an srp of $899.

edit: Honestly what I'm hoping is that the picture can be adjusted, I really like this tv for many reasons (good looks, design, HD PQ) and don't wanna go out looking for a replacement. Tho a new Sony would be tempting (I'll bring my Avia disc to the store)

[arthurking]

yeah, maybe I am worrying about too much. But the fact that after two weeks waiting and > 10 calls I still can't get anybody to take a look at my TV actually made me very upset. I will have my Avia disc ready and see what the technician guy can say about my TV.
Still, I'd like to say all those troubles I am experiencing right now can turn away anybody who are still interested in this TV. You are taking your own risk to buy this TV.
I am speechless right now. I will post update after the tech guy comes.

[boden11]

If Toshiba is unable to fix the current issues we are having...I have been considering the Sony 30HS420--it seems similar in that it is 30" WS 16:9 HDTV. Is this a good choice? Of course I will be checking it out firsthand before purchasing, but I would like to only have 3-4 to check from rather than just looking at everything.

[CrocHunter]

If you see the panasonic check that one out too. It's a little cheaper than the sony, and has no geometry problems from what i have heard and read.

[rukkus]

i had Amazon call Eagle shipping and stop my shipment. Picked up the Sony 32HS420 at CC, and it will be delivered and installed on Thursday (no F'ing way I'm carrying that thing up the stairs) :)

It was on sale for a hundred less than it is on their website too heh. Then I swung by Ikea and picked up a new stand. They have a sweet wannabe Sony one for only 59$ with a 220lb capacity.

If it wasn't for this thread, I'd possibly have a crapped out 30HF84. I appreciate all of your help and reviews.

[bronk]

ok...i am at a loss. who besides rukkus is cancelling his/her order? i was going to hold the line...but if others are retreating, i will shell out some more cash for a large RPHDTV...any thoughts, gentlemen?

by the way, thanks everyone for honest info...i'm a first time user. I ordered the Tosh 30hf84 but may cancel as it will not be here until 10/14. I am also looking at the Tosh RPTV (50hx81)...any advice?
goodluck arthurking!

[rukkus]

retreat retreeeeeeeeat!

most best buys have the 30HF84 in now, go take a look. i wouldn't mind if just the pq was off since they have crappy feeds at BB. the problem was the obvious geometry issues in the middle of the screen.

btw... make sure you cancel before they send it out to Eagle. i had to call them like 10 times already to make sure everything was peachy. still not sure if they are going to take the shipping back charge out of my refund though... i don't want to bring it up because it seems like only the first person i spoke with was going to do it.

it's good to see some people actually got good sets, but i don't think it is worth the risk considering amazon has a no return policy on them.

[bronk]

does amazon charge if i cancel now (before my order is shipped) or should i wait to try it out when it is delivered and then send it back with the delivery guy if it is a lemon too?

[rukkus]

You can cancel for free as long as you don't get that "order is being ready to be shipped, you can no longer cancel" yadda yadda screen when you check your order.

They MIGHT charge you for the shipping back fee if Eagle already has the TV. I think it's $69. I'll let you know if they charge me.

[bronk]

rukkus....or anyone else....do you guys think going with a 30inch HDTV is going too small? i just saw The Last Samurai on my parent's Hitachi 46in RPHDTV without a prog. scan dvd player....and it was not bad pq at all.
Do you think going with a 45+inch RPTV is a bad idea?

[boden11]

Went down to Best Buy with my DVD-9 of Heat and my Avia Home Theater calibration disc to give it a whirl on some possible options if I ditch my 30HF84. Checked out the Sony 34" KD-34SX955 ($1,999) as a 'reference' system (BB didn't have the XBR960). Heat looked pretty good (not any different than on my system) so I switched over the Avia disc. BAM! Huge geometry issues in the bottom right quadrant (way distorted) and also some on the bottom left and in the upper left. The middle of the screen looked pretty good, but the sections that had issues were pretty bad. I'd imagine a stock ticker running across would be pretty tweaked.

Then went and took a look at like a Philips 34" (don't know the model) and a Samsung 30" didn't have to stick my disc in to check out obvious problems and there was a section of video scrolling that had like a checker board and they had their own share of problems too. Didn't get to check out the Sony 30-KVHS420 but I'd imagine it too would have some issues.

This is giving me hope for my Toshiba! Honestly I don't think I really would have noticed any problems had it not been for the thread starter! But now that I've noticed it it's bugging me. Tho I do have hope because my set doesn't have major tweakage, it's more like a quasi pincushion effect messing the vertical lines (kinda like an x^3 graph). I'm hoping this can be fixed, while like the Sony had some sections that were wayy off while the rest was looking good (how could you adjust just one quadrant???).

As for visual distortion on my Toshiba it's generally pretty rare. When there are veritcal pans across something with grid lines there is a slight warping when it reaches a section or two. But this is when the majority of the picture is taken up by what they are panning across. Like I threw in Kill Bill 1 Uncut and put on that huge fight scene in the restaurant (all in color on this version) and didn't see any problems during the whole scene which has plenty of action.

Also as far as watching SD tv and my VCR (connected through RCA comosite) I managed to tweak the settings to get a MUCH better picture. I didn't realize this but the Toshiba stores different settings in the memory for *EACH* input. So while I had my DVD settings dialed in fairly well when I'd switch to my VCR it would look like crap. Well lo-and-behold when I used the same DVD settings I had for the composite input 1 (VCR) it looked A LOT BETTER (no worse than what I'd imagine a 30" WS SDTV would be with RCA cabling). Did the same for the TV stations (SD) and again, nicer picture.

If the tech can fix the geometry, I will be most happy with this purchase (fingers crossed) as it is turning out to be a lot better than I first thought.

[bronk]

boden11 -
family guy is awesome.
money aside, what do you think about the Toshiba 50hx81 (as I am considering cancelling my 30hf84 order)?

[rukkus]

I don't know much about rptvs. I chose direct view because it's all i can afford, it's for my bedroom, and i like gaming on them the best.

[bronk]

thanks rukkus, boden11...I am shamefully getting the 30incher for my living room for my NYC apt....but have ample space for an RPTV...but like everyone else - 2nd thoughts linger.

[jroche]

Originally posted by bronk
thanks rukkus, boden11...I am shamefully getting the 30incher for my living room for my NYC apt....but have ample space for an RPTV...but like everyone else - 2nd thoughts linger.

2nd thoughts here too. Mine is still pending delivery @ Amazon, but I can still cancel. Funny because I was also looking at the RPTV's in the 1500 range. I know twice the price but I'd give up a little PQ for size, especially such a big jump in size. Problem is I know little about RPTV. Was surprised to see quite a number of favorable reviews these $1500ish RPTV's. Guess I need to go see for myself in person...

[lightflash]

I still like the size of 30 hf84 hope they start getting better reports,have to go dealer and try to see problems for my self.Can someone list the problems I should look for?

[Granger]

Just heard back from the service center. They are coming Monday to look at the unit. The thing that seems odd is they told me they would have to take the tv because parts need to be replaced in the unit. It was my understanding that this is something that can be resolved in the service menu. I explained this to them and they are sending their lead tech to look at the tv prior to taking it with them. What do you all think?


TV: 34HFX84 (manf in Aug 2004, serial: 20900XXX
Problem: gemotry issues (bars in 4:3 mode are not uniform) and TV is currently set at -8 tilt to level the screen.

Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.

-Granger

[bjohn]

Well, I kept my order and my TV will be delivered sometime next week.

I'm an HDTV noob, but...
I still don't understand why so many people watch this tv in 4:3 mode when you are suspectible to burn-in. Why not get a DLP or LCD?

Most of the people complaining about geometry problems, seem to be watching their set in 4:3.

Does stretching the picture still cause these problems?

[Granger]

While I watch my TV in 16:9 my wife does not. Besides, I want the TV to perform as it should, no geometry problems and the tilt adjustment should be at a minimum.

To answer your question though, my TV seems to perform perfectly when receiving HD signals and/or watching DVD's. It is tough for me to tell if the strech mode is suffering the same geometry problems as the 4:3 mode so that probably means it isn't ;)

[boden11]

The geometry issues are on any mode, they are just most noticeable in 4:3 since there are jail bars which emphasize the geometry issues with the tv. In 16:9 mode and with HQ stuff more of the picture is being used (with finer and finer details) so it's not as obvious, only with like vertical pans across grid lines or against non motion pans. Also all vertical lines are kinda crooked (door frames, pictures, etc).

It really depends what you watch. I'd imagine sports might show it a little more (with all the angles on the floor/field). Watched Nip/Tuck last night (SD cable through RF) and after adjusting the settings to my liking it looked just as good as an analog tv in my opinion and I didn't notice any geometry issues. (but that doesn't mean they aren't there)

[CrocHunter]

Originally posted by bronk
rukkus....or anyone else....do you guys think going with a 30inch HDTV is going too small? i just saw The Last Samurai on my parent's Hitachi 46in RPHDTV without a prog. scan dvd player....and it was not bad pq at all.
Do you think going with a 45+inch RPTV is a bad idea?

It depends on your viewing distance and how big your room is that your putting the set in.Nothing wrong with a RPTV, infact HDTV shines more on bigger screens.

Because on a 30" set, the screen is too small to see the benefits of HDTV,
I'd say the minamum size to seek the full benefits of HD is from 34" and up.

[rukkus]

Just an update. Amazon contacted Eagle while my TV was in the shipping process (expected at my door this Friday) and cancelled it for me. They are not charging me any return shipping fees and will refund my money as soon as the TV gets back to their warehouse. (hopefully soon)

Kudos to Amazon for getting it straightened out. One of the service reps mentioned a $180 return shipping fee and I knew that couldn't be right.

GL all whom are keeping or cancelling your orders on this model!

[cadams]

I decided to roll the dice and buy from a Best Buy retail store. Hooked it all up and I am very pleased. SD looked as to be expected. Through the S-Video I had to adjust the tilt to -4, I just love those news tickers to give you a good horizontal line. Geometry issues with the gray bars in 4:3 are also there but I will NEVER watch anything not in TheaterWide 1 so it's no biggie. DVD is also great through component, using Finding Nemo as a test. I do notice a big difference when it's set to 540p instead of 1080i with my Sony Progressive DVD. Comcast is coming out Friday to set up HD. As far as the other issues people complained about I have not seen them. Maybe Amazon just had a really bad batch. Did anyone who has bought from Best Buy have the problems besides the crooked 4:3 side bars? I would recommend this set highly for a good entry level especially if you are tight on space.

[Elite09]

cadams,

What kind of difference did the setting 520P compared to 1080i do for your DVD viewing?

[cadams]

I noticed some patchy blacks when I started the movie that looked like the edges were frayed of some objects. When I switched to 540p it looked like those all went away and I got a clearer picture. It could be just my mind playing tricks on me but I figured 1080i is not a progessive picture and 540p is and my DVD player is progressive so maybe it did really help?

[rd001]

Originally posted by rukkus
Just an update. Amazon contacted Eagle while my TV was in the shipping process (expected at my door this Friday) and cancelled it for me. They are not charging me any return shipping fees and will refund my money as soon as the TV gets back to their warehouse. (hopefully soon)

Kudos to Amazon for getting it straightened out. One of the service reps mentioned a $180 return shipping fee and I knew that couldn't be right.

GL all whom are keeping or cancelling your orders on this model!

I just cancelled too. Mine was over halfway to me from the warehouse. Hopefully, I won't get stuck with shipping. But all these complaints made me very nervous and I don't want to be unhappy with something I'll have to live with for years.

So back to no HDTV for me. I'll wait longer.

I don't expect 'perfection' for $700-$1000. But I expect everyone should at least get 'acceptable'. I feel badly for some of the others who got such horrible sets and are now struggling with Toshiba service. Toshiba doesn't seem to be very interested in helping them.

[cadams]

I don't know if it's that Amazon got a bad batch but why not check out Best Buy, know the return policy and if they will accpet it back buy it and see what you get? I have had pretty much no problems with this TV except for having to adjust the tilt to -5. I even got the SD cable channels looking better than my 27" and the Digital Cable channels look to me almost as good as DVD. For this price it's worth hauling it back and forth from a retail store to see if you have a good one or not.

[rukkus]

When I went to Best Buy, the 30HF84 wasn't even close to the Amazon price. I purchased a KV-32HS420 for only $50 more than the BB 30HF84 at CC. Came this morning, hooking up now, will post reviews :)

[cadams]

I got mine yesterday when Best Buy had an online sale of all TV's 5% off and I did store pick up. In this case though it looks like you get what you pay for and someone may want to look into where Amazon got their TV's from to sell them so cheap.

[rd001]

Amazon hasn't responded to me.

I can't seem to find a telephone number where I can just call them and talk about returning it? Does anyone have an 800 number for their returns department or customer service? They hide it pretty well.

Can anyone help out with a phone number?

[rubs]

Here you go:
1-866-660-8114
1-800-201-7575
1-206-266-2992

[rd001]

thx

[lightflash]

I'am hoping that amazon will start getting better,how can they be all the bad ones?They have to be getting them from toshiba!

[bronk]

there seems to be a huge delay from the time of ordering to the time of delivery...i ordered 9/7 and expect shipping 10/1 with delivery 10/14 (at the earliest). Do you think it is because amazon realizes the first batch is crap? and the price is low due to so many returns? by the way....AVS FORUM is the ONLY site with so many reviews...and negative reviews....i am cancelling because i realize 30in wide is too small....i think i am going to slurge on RPTV...but i am not as much in the know as my colleagues on this message board!

[abayer1138]

Just got my 30HF84 from Amazon today - build date Aug. 2004, serial 8608Bxxxx. It seems alright, except for when I hook my XBox to it with component cables - text gets shadow images, and the whole thing looks like it's got a double image shifted slightly. I haven't done any calibration - anyone have any idea what might be causing this? Could it just be a crappy XBox component out box? Thanks!

A.

[chiroppa]

hey everyone.. newbie here.. :D .. anyone know if amazon will bring back free shipping for the tv? they're charging $69 for shipping on the tv now..

[abayer1138]

Ok, the XBox problems were the XBox component out - switched that and it's fine. However, the TV has spontaneously turned itself off twice. Anyone ever seen anything like that?

A.

[arthurking]

update for no update. still nobody calls me or comes to service my TV. I made the request at the 1st day I received this TV and called > 10 times to inquire the status. This is so-called "good" Toshiba in-home warranty? It is like sh*t!

[CrocHunter]

Looks like Toshiba is going down hill /

[cadams]

I wouldn't say they are going down hill just yet. There seems to be something seriously wrong with the TV's Amazon is selling. I have just two issues with my 30HF84 that I bought from Best Buy, first being I had to adjust the tilt and I also had to go into the service menu and shift the picture a bit to the right and widen it since I was getting a lightened line on the edge where the picture ended about a mm or two from the actual edge of the molding. Other than that everything is great. I have SD tuned to look as good as my JVC 27" using S-Video did and HD is stunning. I would say do not order from Amazon but I would reccomend going to a brick & mortar store that will accept a return if you do want this TV. I thnk it is well worth the money and any time it takes to return it if you do happen to get a bad one.

And please, if someone other than a person who ordered from Amazon is javing these major prolems chime in.

[len43]

I think the real issue is if something goes wrong. Toshiba's service is only as good as the local service repairman. In my case, I've been waiting weeks for a tech to come out. I simply can't get this thing serviced.

[cadams]

I hear you but think about how long these TV's have actually been on the market. The techs could still be learning how to get into the service mode. It looks like there is a bad batch of 30HF84's out there that are having unforseen problems. If a tech knows he can't fix a 30HF84 yet simply because he does not have the knowledge or information from Toshiba they really can't do anything. This is the inherant danger of buying a new prduct first instead of waiting a few months for the bugs to get worked out.

[len43]

I hear you too, but in my case smoke started coming out the back. I don't need a service mode or a tech to tell me this thing is broken, just open the box and take a big whiff.

Worse yet, Toshiba refuses to simply replace it for a new one. I need a tech to say this thing is unsalvagable which I guess is actually a rather rare event. From what I can tell the tech is supposed to try to fix it first and can take as long as they want doing it. No amount of complaining is going to speed that process up here at the local repair office or at Toshiba headquarters.

I may have been first in line and willing to take a chance, but this is pretty clear cut bad customer service. I should have had a new TV by now and an apology for a clearly faulty TV set.

[pduffy]

cadams,

I bought my 30HF84 at Best Buy in Rochester, MN. Go back to the first few pages of this thread to see the list of problems I had. I was a very unhappy camper. When I returned the HDTV to Best Buy, they had another "open box" 30HF84 that had been returned by another customer. I don't think the problem is related to Amazon. It's probably just a bad batch from the factory.

[jroche]

****. Somehow my unit shipped from Amazon before it was supposed to and before i cancelled. What is the deal w/ cancelling after it enters ship process? Anyone get an exact figure? Not sure i should roll the dice on actually having it delivered...

[rd001]

Originally posted by jroche
****. Somehow my unit shipped from Amazon before it was supposed to and before i cancelled. What is the deal w/ cancelling after it enters ship process? Anyone get an exact figure? Not sure i should roll the dice on actually having it delivered...
I returned mine mid-shipment. Eagle did not deliver directly to my rural location and had been holding it for over a week. They would have had to switch to yet another carrier to complete delivery. I just cancelled, given the bad reports this TV has had. Too bad, I really wanted it too. Toshiba has given itself a black eye with me. I'm just glad I was watching AVS to find out about the unit before it was too late.

I'm looking at the Syntax/Sceptre/Sharp 30" LCD panels now. Twice the money but at least I'll have a working unit and I'll get true 720p and OOTB computer display capability. I guess some deals are too good to be true (Sanyo, Toshiba "bargains").

[rubs]

Little off topic....
I need to buy progressive scan dvd player with this tv and have shor listed following 2. Which one do you guys recommend:
samsung p241
toshiba 3960

Thanks
--rubs

[arthurking]

my situation is exactly the same as len43's. I called both Toshiba and local service center many times. The end result? I am still waiting! They just do not care! Everytime they will find some excuse and tell me to wait several business days, and then when you call several days later to ask why nobody comes, they will find other lame excuses to let you wait again. The whole process is so frustrating and I even don't know what to deal with them.

Originally posted by len43
I think the real issue is if something goes wrong. Toshiba's service is only as good as the local service repairman. In my case, I've been waiting weeks for a tech to come out. I simply can't get this thing serviced.

[CrocHunter]

Like i said before, it looks like Toshiba is going down hill,Even the dvd players are not that great.I had a dvd player that i had to return because the black levels were not even black, they were horrible.:( :mad:

[arthurking]

I was surprised to know my experience was so similar to len43's.
I also tried to let Toshiba replace one TV for me after I know they can't get a tech guy to take a look at my TV very soon and I know my TV is very problematic. But they refuse to do that. They claim a replacement will be made only AFTER a tech guy considers it irreparable. But the real problem here is, they haven't published the formal service manual for this set and my local tech guy needs it to repair the TV. Toshiba did nothing to help a customer like me. If you ask for the warranty thing, they will tell you how soon they perform the service is at their option and what you can do is just to wait patiently. They won't expedite the whole process just because you complain.
len43 and I as well as other guys who are experiencing similar problems put our faith and money to a new product because we trusted Toshiba's brand and in-home warranty. Now when some problems occur and some of their products are faulty, from my perspect of view, Toshiba is not trying to help us and take the responsibility. Toshiba didn't show any sincerity to solve this problem in a timely manner. That 's why I feel upset with Toshiba and thus, won't recommend any people here to buy this TV from Toshiba. As for myself, this is probably the last Toshiba product I will purchase in my life.( well, I realize a company as large as Toshiba even won't care about the complaint of one individual customer. "Good" business practice, way to go, Toshiba!)

Originally posted by len43
I hear you too, but in my case smoke started coming out the back. I don't need a service mode or a tech to tell me this thing is broken, just open the box and take a big whiff.

Worse yet, Toshiba refuses to simply replace it for a new one. I need a tech to say this thing is unsalvagable which I guess is actually a rather rare event. From what I can tell the tech is supposed to try to fix it first and can take as long as they want doing it. No amount of complaining is going to speed that process up here at the local repair office or at Toshiba headquarters.

I may have been first in line and willing to take a chance, but this is pretty clear cut bad customer service. I should have had a new TV by now and an apology for a clearly faulty TV set.

[CrocHunter]

I hear you man, No toshiba for me , not ever again.Only Sony and Panasonic electronics,and JVC.

To tell you the truth, my firsy dvd player was a sony, and then when i had my Playstation2 i used that as my dvd player for a few years and had no problems what so ever.I pretty much have good experiances with sony products,and would highly recomend the 34" and 30" Sony HS420 tv sets.
And also Panasonic is on par with sony as well.

[Elite09]

Originally posted by CrocHunter
I hear you man, No toshiba for me , not ever again.Only Sony and Panasonic electronics,and JVC.

To each their own. Doesn't matter what brand you buy, some may have problems.

I feel for Len and Arthur and am sure their issues will be resolved one a tech confirms to Toshiba the problems. Having worked in tv repairs, it is just procedure that Toshiba must go through. A tech must confirm the problems in a "In home warranty" before Toshiba or any brand can decide how to resolve the issue.

I have the tv in question here (30HF84) and am very happy with it. No issues to report. I, like others was concerned as I bought the tv online and didn't see it in person. No concerns now.

Croc, we know you don't like the Toshiba, you have made many posts about it without owning the tv in question. Did you buy the Panny or Sony? I don't think you can go wrong with either of the three brands, Toshiba, Sony or Panny. All quality brands and quality sets.

[boden11]

So I tried messing with the factory settings and managed to tweak the geometry a little better, but still it's off. All the verticals look horrible and I'm getting frustrated. Real noticeable for indoor scenes with lots of doors and windows and everything is crooked. I really doubt calling the number I got from Toshiba is going to help at all. (I mean comeon, like some local has any experience tweaking the geometry on the brand new model HF84). Tho I guess a pro saying 'it's off' will help me trade the tv in for something else. Really a shame because I pretty much like everything else the set has to offer. I'll probably switch to that 30KVHS420 Sony (after checking it for geometry issues also...dunno tho because I've seen people posting in the XBR960 thread about geometry problems!!!).

So what have you people been doing ?? Has anyone managed to tweak it themselves and come out with it looking cherry? Or are you still waiting on techs to come by and check it out?

[CrocHunter]

I'm going to wait a week to pull the trigger, but it looks like i'm getting the 34" Panasonic, i've did my research for over 3 months now, and that seems to be the best bet for my viewing conditions.

The panasonic also i think is the only one that can automatically detect an anamorphic signal and stretch it to fit the screen automatically.I'm not sure if the sony and toshiba doe this, but i read it on the panasonic website.

For me it looks to be either the 34" sony's or the 34" panasonic, but the sony may be pushing it, due to my tv stand having weight limits so the sony may be out.

[paulio]

I bought the 30HF84 too. I got mine at Best Buy. All the smae issue others have posted. Bad geometry, grainy picture, poor PQ all around. Mine is going back in exchange for Sony today. I too have had great past experience with Toshiba products and even better experience with the service end. When I contacted them on this thing they were all but helpfull. Sad thing. Oh well.... I hope others will see these posts while making a buying choice and go with another brand in this range.

Paulio