View Full Version : Samsun STB Upgrade (models: PRL-3100, SIR-T151, SIR-T165, SIR-TS160)
I was just going through Samsung's website and found this critical information on upgrading our OTA Samsung receivers.
The FCC on November 4th, 2003 has mandated a standard to protect Digital content from piracy called the "Broadcast Flag". The Broadcast Flag is a signal embedded in the digital transmission sent out by television broadcasters that prevents the content from being redistributed over the Internet. All devices made and sold after July 1, 2005, will have to be able to read the flag and obey it with a specified technology to prevent unauthorized redistribution.
CONSEQUENTLY:
Because this ruling will affect all new Set-top boxes as well as previous models, we would like to notify you that your High Definition receiver will need to be upgraded to comply with the standards. Failure to upgrade your receiver with the broadcast flag standard may prevent you from fully experiencing DTV since you will not be able too receive protected content and may interfere with unprotected content as well.
Upgrade Info (http://www.samsungusa.com/stb_upgrade/)
here's the Registration form for the Set Top Box Broadcast Flag Upgrade (http://ww2.samsungsupport.com/broadcastflag/stbupgrade.asp)
Let me know what you guys think ...
(I anyway was thinking of some kind of upgrade since my receiver sometimes experiences a few audio drop-outs. The signal strength is pretty good, and the video is crystal clear. Then when I switch off and on my receiver, I get the audio restored. This problem happens once in a while (maybe 2/3 droputs a week)).
billodom
09-22-04, 03:35 PM
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=323077
I looked at the website when this first came out (couple months ago). Anyone ever hear of the 151? I've not. Could it be a typo an dthey mean the 150? I'm on hold with samsung tech support now why they try and figure it out. I don't really want to upgrade to 2.1 (I think this is the latest) as 1.8 works fine for me. BUT if the "broadcast" flag is going to kill my box, then I'll do it (upgrade). Anyone with the 150 have any info on this?
Just transfered to level 2 tech support and on hold. Will post what I find out.
jeff
Yes .. please post what you find .. actually mine is also T-151. The reference link that billodom posted touches T-165 exclusively ...
As I mentioned above my T-151 is experiencing audio drop-out .. so I'll be quite interested ...
Okay. STB notice is correct, it should be 151 not 150. the units listed need to be upgraded to correctly handle the broadcast flag.
As for my unit (sir-t150), they claim v1.8 is the latest firmware. We all know that 2.0 is the latest (I have it on my hard drive), but have not upgraded my unit as it may do more harm than good and I've got no issues except that the guide is un-usable slow.
I think that audio drop-outs are not related to the broadcast flag. There could be many issues that cause that . It could be the broadcast (on opening day of NFL football, FOX had drop-outs about every 10-15 seconds lasting for 3 seconds), it could be anything. If it happens on all your stations, then I might consider it AFTER consulting with samsung tech support, or verifying you firmware version and searching this forum.
On my box you check the firmware version:
If you press DISPLAY over HELP while HELP is ON, it will display the firmware version info.
Best,
jeff
Thanks Jeff .. I just check my firmware ... By the way, do you know what's the latest firmware revision for T-151 and where can I download it?
I don't know about the 151. for the 150, the latest official is v1.8. There is a v2.0 that's been floating around. Search this forum. I get no hits on the samsung site for the 151. Odd.
jeff
billodom
09-23-04, 12:02 PM
Sorry, folks, for posting the link to the 165 firmware thread. It is almost laughable, but I tend to forget that the function of an STB is to actually act as an OTA receiver as I bought the 165 solely to pair it with the JVC DVHS VCR to regard HD content via firewire. My TV already has a built-in OTA receiver.
Originally posted by rts
...
CONSEQUENTLY:
Because this ruling will affect all new Set-top boxes as well as previous models, we would like to notify you that your High Definition receiver will need to be upgraded to comply with the standards. Failure to upgrade your receiver with the broadcast flag standard may prevent you from fully experiencing DTV since you will not be able too receive protected content and may interfere with unprotected content as well.
...
Total BS.
Broadcast flag is not an encryption method. Any device that does not understand the broadcast flag will simply ignore it.
sregener
09-23-04, 01:49 PM
Oddly, I can't find a link to the latest firmware for the SIR-T151. I already received their upgrade kit, but I'm curious if they've come out with a newer version that fixes the audio failure after reception artifacts.
Kir..
The statement is not TOTAL BS. You really can't view protected programming on un-upgraded Samsung STBs. But it's not because of encryption, it's because the boxes constantly reboot since they don't know what to do with the flag. They don't know HOW to ignore it. Hence the patch. When you figure that, their statement is quite correct. Won't argue it could have been worded better, though.
If they said that it's because of their inability to ignore the previously reserved fields, I would have agreed with it. Saying that the upgrade is needed to comply with the new standards is BS in my vocabulary ;)
Absolute BS in an attempt to cover-up, gloss over, divert-attention-from the latest monumental engineering blunder built into these boxes -- and they are not making it easy to upgrade them either with myriad different glitches inherent to the patches and evasion and borderline rudeness. Many emails went unanswered, many answered tersely and unresponsively.
When I asked how to install the firmware, I was emailed: "cant tell you how to use a PC, sorry" -- let it be known that this is your blunder Samsung, the only reason I need develop expertise in this arena of computer use is due to your engineering failings. I don't think it is asking too much to request a tutorial on how I can use my time to solve something I thought I paid for you to solve before releasing this box.
Incidently, if I install it and it screws up this box even more, I will be looking for the FCC standard that Kir refers to that this pre-broadcast flag equipment is supposed to ignore the bits, like these boxes DO NOT. At least I can recover my investment in small claims on that theory I'm convinced. So Kir, where is that stipulation to be found? I've read it refered to elsewhere too.
Thanks,
MH
And while I'm at it, can I get anyone to chime in on how to install this firmware? -- it is sitting in my documents in a zipped file -- where to go from here?
Thanks,
MH
horseflesh
09-24-04, 02:16 AM
This is a *load*.
My 151 is working just fine right now, I am NOT looking forward to monkeying with it in order to fix their blunder.
You guys with digital outputs must really be steamed. So much for digital recording of your prime time shows, once this hits.
sregener
09-24-04, 09:32 AM
Originally posted by Emaych
And while I'm at it, can I get anyone to chime in on how to install this firmware? -- it is sitting in my documents in a zipped file -- where to go from here?
Installation for me was a fairly easy process once I received the upgrade kit from Samsung. (You need a special serial cable to upgrade the firmware on the T151.)
With the computer off, you plug in the serial cable into a serial port on your PC.
Connect the other end of the cable to your Samsung SIR-T151 (powered off.)
Turn on the computer. Run the firmware upgrade program. Select the firmware to load. When it says to do so, turn on the Samsung STB. After a few minutes, the software will announce that it's done. Turn everything off. Disconnect cables. Enjoy life to the fullest.
Originally posted by Emaych
... I will be looking for the FCC standard that Kir refers to that this pre-broadcast flag equipment is supposed to ignore the bits, like these boxes DO NOT. At least I can recover my investment in small claims on that theory I'm convinced. So Kir, where is that stipulation to be found? I've read it refered to elsewhere too.
Thanks,
MH
FCC:
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-03-273A1.doc?date=031104
ATSC:
http://www.atsc.org/standards.html
FCC has a load of information on broadcast flag, just search their web site, then cross-reference with the ATSC standard and field description.
Hope it helps.
Thank you sregener and Kir.
Actually, sregener, I am working with the v125 firmware which is delivered in the form of a zipped file, and which, upon checking, my computer cannot even access, so it complicates the "upgrade" process. I did insert the v134 disc and this seemed alot more straightforward and available, also there were directions included, but what Samsung left out of the v134 packet was the part about v134 destroying the reason for getting this box in the first place which was the recording capability, so I avoided installation on the testimony of those who installed it.
Now I need to know how to deal with a zipped file.....anyone?
Kir: very helpful, thank you.
Thanks all for the help Samsung is reluctant to give.
MH
scottabs
09-24-04, 12:16 PM
As for my unit (sir-t150), they claim v1.8 is the latest firmware. We all know that 2.0 is the latest (I have it on my hard drive), but have not upgraded my unit as it may do more harm than good and I've got no issues except that the guide is un-usable slow.
So, does this mean the 150 will be unaffected by the broadcast flag once it is sent? Or, does it mean they aren't going to have a fix for the 150?
Scott
http://www.winzip.com/downwzeval.htm
Winzip 21-day evaluation period
sregener
09-24-04, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by Emaych
Now I need to know how to deal with a zipped file.....anyone?
http://www.info-zip.org/pub/infozip/UnZip.html
Really, if you haven't learned how to use Google yet to do a search for "free zip" there's not much hope for the technological age.
My understanding is that the sir-t150 with v1.8 firmware is already broadcast flag ready.
At least I hope so.
jeff
sregener:
Yes, it is all very new to me -- I got a computer for the sole and only purpose of acquiring fun electronics and never took any kind of course, tutorial or instruction of any kind on how to use it. Turns out that some of these electronics are not as fun or friendly as they ought to be and it was a mystery for about 10 months why one station was causing my 165 to go into spasms -- the station said it was the box, Samsung said their box was sound and blamed the signal, etc., etc. -- I assume you know the game.
Get the word from AVS Forum what is really going on and now were into a whole new scenario of upgrade discs that disable the timer recording capability, so you go with an older email upgrade that never appears because your ISP strips it off as it would a virus. You then set up another email account at Yahoo for the one purpose of getting an upgrade file which won't open because it is "zipped" and you have to pay for a program to open it, but no one ever told you about that program -- what it is, what it is called, why you need it, where to go to get it, etc., etc., etc....and certainly you were never told what to do with it once it is opened because the manufacturer is only trying to evade, avoid and obfuscate to avert the issue seeping out of these arcane discussion boards into the real world at large which might just tend to wreak havok on their imminent assumption of global primacy as a corporation -- yes, all very new to me -- I'm just trying to watch a little HDTV here, didn't really sign up for all the rest...but I guess I did, didn't I?
Thank you for your help, I do think I have it figured out to the point of being able to do it, but now the question still remains: is it adviseable &/or will it cause more harm than good? Jury still out on that I guess, and I gather there is no going back from v125 if it proves even more disastrous, so it's really all just a little spiral of futile enterprise in the end -- and you thought you were going to be entertained! -- well, it's a diversion, I grant you that.
MH
Emaych,
I suggest you print this thread and maybe read it again in a few months after you have spent some time with your computer, that is if you are willing to learn the very basics of the computer and its software.
At that time you may even get a chuckle over your own comments.
You are in a forum filled with individuals that have a passion of innovative technology. This passion at times does carry over and requires the use and understanding of basic computer operations and functions, many times exceeding the basics.
This forum's function is mainly for the sharing of ideas and information.
At some point a line needs to be drawn as to what is within the scope of the forum. The very basic computer questions you have had within this thread I personally feel are outside the scope of this forum, yet many members have given you leads to set you in the right direction.
There are many books and computer how-to forums that can help you in this limited knowledge area.
Meanwhile, I suggest you do not attempt any firmware upgrades with your very limited knowledge. For the most part these upgrades are safe, but whenever you write new software into an appliance, you also take a risk of turning it into a non-functional paperweight/doorstop.
If you must upgrade your SIR, may I suggest you check with friends/family, even school kids that live on your block for assistance.
Or send it back to Samsung or a repair facility. This is the main reason many companies DO NOT offer end user software upgrades.
Samsung was correct in it is not their responsibility to teach you basic computer operations.
Good luck and I truly wish you well; now please find a book or two ;)
Diode1:
Do I detect a not-so-faint whiff of techno-snobbery? If so, allow me to point out where your highly advanced state of knowledge seems to have landed you: squarely within the ranks of the inveigled consumers fully willing to accept that one must jump through a thousand hoops just to have what the manufacturer said you were getting when you bought whatever in the first place.
I do not swallow that whole myself, and in fact rank myself among those who believe that this "firmware fiasco", as it has been dubbed, was caused by Samsung's inability to correctly engineer a piece they went ahead and released to the general public. Furthermore, as is the case with automobiles, when a blunder of this kind and magnitude are revealed, I tend to think it is their responsibility to issue a general recall -- a monumental inconvenience itself, to me as a consumer -- and do whatever to reinstate functionality to their defective product, NOT do what Samsung has chosen to do here, which is to try and make it appear as if new FCC guidelines are mandating an upgrade and in every other way evade and avoid even being helpful on basic guidelines.
The absolute and very least one may expect from the manufacturer, is courtesy and an assist to perform the do-it-yourself which they have foisted back upon us. I have gotten not much of either in this process EXCEPT from the good people of this forum. Was it their responsibility? -- of course not -- all the greater is the commendation and thanks I accord them and the custodians of this enterprise.
Perhaps you may feel completely at ease investing untold hours investigating cause and solution of electronic malfunction, I've been looking for just such a refreshingly avid and curious purchaser for my now non-functioning electronics -- perhaps you are interested?
tombarry
09-26-04, 05:23 PM
My stb works fine now. I would wait until my stb did not work before replacing the firmware (or the hardware).
Hi tombarry,
That would seem to be the strategy to follow -- only one local is causing the reboot on my box at this present time, but one foresees the ultimate complete demise of functionality in the not-so-distant future which tends to force ones hand on this risk as the next move to make. Samsung never answered the question as to whether they were working on an upgrade that addressed the disabling flaws of their v125 and v134 patches, in spite of my repeatedly asking, and were not responsive to whether anyone had successfully installed these versions without problems, so your testimonial is helpful here -- were you dealing with a rebooting problem before installation of new firmware? (I assume you did install something new?) What version was it?, and are you now able to rely upon multiple timer recording schedulings?
Thanks.
MH
Munkeung
09-28-04, 03:00 PM
I have both the 151 and 351. Based on my experience with the firmware upgrade for the 351 to correct the dd audio dropout issue. I would wait until the stb stop working before I'll do anything. :(
Munkeung,
You don't mention why you recommend waiting till unit failure on the upgrade. Was something not as it should have been with the newly installed firmware?
Munkeung
09-29-04, 12:08 PM
I bought the 351 last Year and hooked up to a Mit 55" RPTV and a Yamaha 995. Started watching MNF which is dd 5.1 and I was in awe before the audio started to drop out every couple minutes. I tried both the optical and coaxial output and realized the problem was really with the Samsung. I returned (ABT) and got another one and has the same problem. I was so hooked to HDTV that I could really want to get a refund. The unit was was OK with PCM and that I lived with that for about 6 months.
From this forum, I found that people have been get firmware upgrade and seemed to have the problem solved. Talked to Steve (?) of Samsung and he sent me the cable and emailed me the firmware upgrade file. I installed it and I thought it actually worked and was really happy for a couple of days. Then I realized that the new firmware makes the unit really sensitive to marginal OTA signal. I live about 35 west of Downtown Chicago and the signal from Channel 2 is marginal at best. Before I installed the upgrade, I could live with the occasional pixelation and you tend to ignore it because the overall picture quality is so great. However, with the firmware upgrade, the unit would stop when the signal is bad and you can't watch any channels unit you recycle the power. That's bad, because I can't watch CSI and Saturday afternoon college football anymore. That's why I regret about making the firmware upgrade. There are other people in this forum that have the same problem. I suppose if the OTA signal is very good in an area, then it may be OK.
One the other hand, I bought a 151 closeout at BB a couple of months ago for $99. It was an open box unit and didn't even have a remote. It's working for me perfectly. I can watch all channels with no problem and I'm not about to change anything until I absolutely have to.
That's the long version of the story. :)
Munkeung,
Much appreciated, very much interested in the details. There is no going back from a fatal error here apparently, and just a matter of which malfunction you prefer to deal with, and recurring signal loss is certainly something I could not tolerate for long.
Thanks.
Munkeung
09-29-04, 03:39 PM
Emaych,
Apparently there are more primetime shows in dd 5.1 this season and therefore I would prefer to have dd over PCM. However, the best dd 5.1 HDTV shows still seems to be Monday Night Football.
At this point, I've 2 systems. The 151 is connected to a 55" RPTV and the 351 is connected to a Benq PB6200 projecting to a 72" wide screen (white wall). Even though the Benq has less resolution and higher black level than the Mits RPTV, I love the big image (watch from about 10' to 11') of the benq. With the Benq, I have a Denon with PLIIx that can convert anything (2, 5, or 6) to 7 channels with good imaging (I'm not that picky). Therefore, I regret doing the update to the 351 and cannot watch CBS with the benq. However, I will eventually hook the 151 to the benq since I'm watching most of the HDTV and DVD with the benq eventhough the resolution and color are not as good. I guess bigger is better, at least for me. Still, paying more than 3 times the price for the 351 has not been a good experience. I understand Samsung will have a 451 coming out but I'd rather buying closeout models of 151 if I were to buy again.
Again, I'll not be the guinea pig this time around even though it sounds like a simple fix for the 151.
Regarding the signal drop out after the upgrade, it happens under both the PCM and dd audio output.
Hey Munkeung,
I've got to say my preference is crystal clarity and eye-popping color saturation over size. I have one of the smaller type plasmas that just has the most supremely gorgeous bright, sharp image quality -- would hate to sacrifice that for size -- I get my size from my sound system which is finally pretty close to something I can live with -- about 5K watts and fifty or so driver elements.
Whatever Samsung may offer up, I can't imagine it to be anything other than a beguiling proffer to dwell in STB hell once more. What they have done with the last round of cursed boxes is tantamount to an auto manufacturer deciding to make all their cars' pistons out of plastic, and when they begin to fail and it can be denied no longer, give their hapless customers a wrench and say have at it, but we have no obligation to even tell you how to do the job and -- if you let us do it, we may not return your tires with the car (many folks who opted to send their boxes in for the upgrade came up with missing original boxes and parts, etc. and I for one was told "can't tell you how to operate a PC" when I asked for simple instructions how to install the "upgrade" myself).
Perhaps even more surprising than a corporation's willingness to do this, is that some fellow AVS forum members seem to think this is perfectly acceptable business practice and agree that a wrench and a "good luck" are all that is required to fulfill any obligation engendered by marketing a defective product -- most mind-boggling indeed!
I for one have had enough exposure to the Samsung approach and am waiting to see how the particulars of JVC's impending release of a DVHS recorder with tuner fall into place -- what folks are thinking of it and how the price shakes out. With so many utterly state-of-the-HD-artform series' out there, like Hawaii and Medical Investigation, I find that my two-tuner, two-DVHS system needs yet another source and way to record. I must have more!
sregener
09-30-04, 03:06 PM
Originally posted by Emaych
What they have done with the last round of cursed boxes is tantamount to an auto manufacturer deciding to make all their cars' pistons out of plastic, and when they begin to fail and it can be denied no longer, give their hapless customers a wrench and say have at it, but we have no obligation to even tell you how to do the job and -- if you let us do it, we may not return your tires with the car (many folks who opted to send their boxes in for the upgrade came up with missing original boxes and parts, etc. and I for one was told "can't tell you how to operate a PC" when I asked for simple instructions how to install the "upgrade" myself).
Perhaps even more surprising than a corporation's willingness to do this, is that some fellow AVS forum members seem to think this is perfectly acceptable business practice and agree that a wrench and a "good luck" are all that is required to fulfill any obligation engendered by marketing a defective product -- most mind-boggling indeed!
I think your analogy is a little misplaced. Contrary to your claims, this isn't a difficult job that requires a piston replacement. It's more along the lines of needing to put a new tire on the car. Anyone with some rudimentary knowledge of car tools should be able to figure it out. If you don't have even that minimal amount of knowledge, find a mechanic to do it for you.
Samsung was wise to tell you that they "can't tell you how to operate a PC." Anyone who fixes these things on a regular basis can tell you that there are at least a hundred different variations for any procedure, based on your own hardware and software setup. If you can't unzip a file, it's better to tell you to step back and watch the blinking lights while someone who knows what a wrench (an unzip tool, in this case) looks like.
Samsung would no doubt be perfectly willing to upgrade the firmware to your box for you, provided you ship it to them and wait for its return. This isn't that different from a manufacturer requiring you to return a car to a dealer to get a needed recall item fixed. The difference is that you can't fix most car recall items yourself and they won't mail you the parts - your only choice is to return it to them. Samsung offers those who don't want to do without their tuner while it's in transit the option of fixing it themselves.
I don't think Samsung made a defective box. When they created the box, the "broadcast flag" wasn't in the standard. The people who made the standard could have done so in a way that wouldn't break any STBs, but they didn't. Samsung ends up eating the cost for modifications to a standard to enable the broadcast flag that they had no way to predict or test for. The fact that so few other boxes failed may have to do with the very limited PSIP support most STBs I've worked with have compared to the Samsung.
Frankly, when I have car trouble, I know when I'm in over my head. I don't expect Ford or Dodge or Chevy to tell me how to change a tire in simple steps. When I needed new windshield wipers, I had a mechanic install them - I'm mechanically disinclined. Why you didn't consult a computer expert, I don't know. But insisting that any fix of your box should be perfectly painless and immediately simple such that you wouldn't need to know what a wrench is might be a tad bit arrogant.
Emaych,
Your analogy of autos to my reply last weekend was way out in left field.
Auto recalls are a matter of life and limb.
Anything outside this fact becomes a service bulletin,
sometimes they get repaired when you bring the product in for service IF the service center cares to check the database for them.
My two t165 units and my now one, was three t151 units
operate just as good as my two Sony HD300 boxes for comparison.
The t165 units have one advantage, they let me record via 1394 to my XP box. I have owned many brands and models of stb's over the years,
5-Rca DTC-100's, one Hughes E86, three panny TU-HDS20's, one Pioneer SH-D505, two Mits HD1080's, and a few others and these all had ota HDTV capabilities and I can say none are as good as the Samsung for ota.
If you feel Samsung is inferior, good thing your a late adopter ;)
I assure you nobody living near my Samsung units are in any danger and a recall in the normal sense is not warranted :rolleyes:
Gentlemen,
Very simply put, my ire for Samsung stems from a very basic marketing principle known as "merchantability" -- that a given product ought to serve the purpose for which it was intended -- to the extent that it fails this standard, it fails its most basic raison d'etre. I bought my T165 to recieve digital channels OTA and record the content. I was never compelled to sign any document that I need be computer literate or asked to fulill any other requisite qualifications to own and use this box.
Now, come to find out that eventually without upgrade it wll not serve the intended purpose. Somehow they are the only manufacturer whose boxes are suffering this "malfunction" if you are happier with that term than "defect". My understanding is that these boxes were SUPPOSED to ignore the bits introduced with the advent of the broadcast flag, that it was a condition known to be looming, and that it should have been accounted for -- odd how every other manufacturer seems to have gotten that one accidently right. If I am wong on this point, I stand to be corrected.
In any event, I don't see how, when a box reboots upon a signal it is drawing through the antenna, it is not seen as a major design flaw -- the booting up process is SUPPOSED to be controlled either manually or with the remote -- not vulnerable to control by a local station -- broadcast flag or not.
If, as you say, Samsung cannot be held accountable for changes imposed by the goverrnment, I would call that a very sound legal foundation to refuse to do anything to modify these boxes -- no one expects analogue recievers to pull in digital signals, no manufacturers are doing a single thing about something they TRULY had no way to envision or account for. So I must confess, I simply don't believe it. My belief that this is a major design flaw persists. And by the way, how do you know it won't burst into flames and pose a danger? -- its is already doing something off-the-wall which is rebooting from an ota transmission -- what will it do next?
In any case, my analogy was not to imply that these boxes posed a health or public safety risk, only that at the other end of the scale is a responsible way a manufacturer can deal with their obligation to present a merchantable product. All I asked them for was a very simple step-by-step guide to the process of installing the new firmware -- something that another member provided very clearly in a single paragraph by way of PM. And contrary to what you may believe, I am a very capable individual and feel I now have the understanding to install if that is the indicated move. WHOOPS! Problem is, the new firmware disables other capabilities of the box, so it doesn't really seem like the indicated move.
So now we are back to having a box that fails the merchantability standard -- doesn't do what it's supposed to. You say I could send it in, problem here is that those who have done it, have come up with damaged goods, things missing -- doesn't really seem the good choice, does it?
I am delighted that you gentlemen are delighted with your boxes and that they are 100% after the upgrade -- that was just the kind of helpful testimonial I sought to elicit from folks out there, but instead of spending your time outlining a brief guide to firmware installation or even sharing your experiences with the upgrade, you have chosen to assail me with such things as I am "arrogant" of all things for expecting a product to adhere to the legal standard of merchantability, or, my goodness, he actually expects the process of upgrade to be pleasant and somewhat painless? -- Goodness! -- isn't he just the supercilious prima donna?
It may shock you to realize I love the potential of this box as well, I have come to rely upon it in fact -- this is the reason it is so frustrating to be facing seemingly all bad alternatives to the ultimate uselessness of this item. Also, contrary to what you may believe, I do realize we are at the forefront of exciting new technologies and am willing to endure a little sacrifice for the the pleasures offered up, but when something does not work as intended, I would ask or a minimum standard of courtesy and useful correction -- Samsung has failed on both counts I'm afraid, and when this box absolutely requires the upgrade, I will report on that process as well to be of help to those similarly situated, just as I was helped -- even though this is about as far from sitting down to watch the pretty images as I can imagine.
sregener
10-01-04, 10:25 AM
Originally posted by Emaych
Very simply put, my ire for Samsung stems from a very basic marketing principle known as "merchantability" -- that a given product ought to serve the purpose for which it was intended -- to the extent that it fails this standard, it fails its most basic raison d'etre.
[...]Now, come to find out that eventually without upgrade it wll not serve the intended purpose.
[...]You say I could send it in, problem here is that those who have done it, have come up with damaged goods, things missing -- doesn't really seem the good choice, does it?
I have a PC in the basement that operates just fine, but it won't install some software. Apparently, technology has progressed beyond the capabilities of that machine. It no longer serves the purpose it was intended for - my computing needs. Standards have changed over time. The beat of the incessent technological drum refuses to stand still.
When a new virus comes out, it comes to light that if I don't have an up-to-date virus scanner running on my computer (something it was not sold with), it is possible that my newer computer will actually stop working entirely, thus failing to serve its intended purpose.
When sending an item in for repair, it is good practice to send *only* the item needing repair. Including remotes, cables, etc. is poor practice. A repair facility should have these things in droves, and not need the hassle of keeping track of whether there was one in each and every box they open.
I have two HD boxes. One by Samsung (151) and one by Zenith (420.) The Samsung displays program guide data. The Zenith does not. The Samsung uses PSIP data to attempt to improve reception. The Zenith does not. It is no surprise to me, then, that the Zenith tuner which already ignores almost everything in the PSIP stream, doesn't seem to notice the broadcast flag.
Samsung made a mistake in implementing their PSIP support, a mistake that it was *impossible* to test for before shipping the boxes to the public because *no one* was using a broadcast flag at that point. Software is, as we all know it, imperfect, and the more complex it becomes, the more likely it is to be imperfect in meaningful ways. Samsung has made a reasonable effort to correct the problem by releasing a new fix of the software. They've gone above the call of duty by shipping, at no charge, a CD and a cable to any customer who requests one. It should come as no surprise to those of us who install software on a regular basis that their instructions are spotty. It should further come as no surprise that the telephone technical support is incapable of helping people. Minimum wage doesn't buy quality help.
The problem, as I see it, is that you want Samsung to be perfect, and they're not. They made a mistake. They've taken steps to correct it. Those steps aren't perfect. So is the nature of all things.
Munkeung
10-01-04, 10:58 AM
Technology is changing too fast for even the world's largest companies to keep up in a consistent manner.
Samsung is one of the largest, if not the largest, technology company in the world. I'm sure they made very good products, most of the time. The 151 is prime example. It is a reasonably priced stb which most people are satisfied with. The fact that it needs update to recognize new broadcast signal should not be held against it.
The problem is that Samsung also makes the 351 which most people are having problems with. The fact that the product upgrade solves one problem while creating a new problem at the same time simply means loose software control.
I have no problem with Samsung's upgrade policy. I don't blame Emaych for not wanting to go the diy route since 99% of the population does not know what a RS232 serial port is.
A little off topic. I just bought a Soyo motherboard and the LAN port stopped working. Sent it back and the internet retailer sent me another one. It has the same problem. It turns out the LAN only works in 10mbps at half duplex for the time being until they find a solution. In the mean time, I'm stuck with a slow LAN connection with my new 3Ghz P4 HT processor. Again, 99% of the population does not know what half duplex means and how then can we expect the majority of the consumer to be part of the upgrade process.
The current state of technology (consumer) has definitely way above the comprehension and need for the average consumer. The fact is better technology does not always translate to better user interface and higher reliability.
My 2 cents.
fire407
10-01-04, 12:50 PM
Samsung will do the software upgrade for you. Talk to level 2 support and they will send you a shipping label. They only want the stb--no remote or accessories--in the box. So if you can live without your stb for a few days, that is the way to go.
Just for the record, I believe my latest entry above makes clear I do not expect perfection. I think it safe to say that, yeah, one or two years out from the introduction of something, I would expect a product, virtually any product, to still be good for its intended purpose, and I absolutely reject ANY assertion that the state of my technological acumen or lack thereof can be cited for this box going south, or that the expectation it should work is pathetically, lamentably misguided and needs to be redirected to conform to Samsung's standard of what they will and won't do.
Also, now for the record, the short shrift I was given came from Samsung's STB Specialist (or at least his email) -- I am quite confident any cursory perusal of his emails to me demonstrates what I am talking about. And by the way, my inquiries to him were simple and did not seek much.
Last thing, the people complaining of the send-in option cited scratches, gouges, and missing input/output terminals off the back... BUT, now it is OK to lose remotes and original boxes, etc.? Boy, there seems to be no length some people won't go to in defence of shoddy business practice -- hard to fathom.
fire407,
Thanks for that help, I may go that route when the occaision demands. I'm just not persuaded by what I've read that any confidence in that process is well founded.
Originally posted by fire407
Samsung will do the software upgrade for you. Talk to level 2 support and they will send you a shipping label. They only want the stb--no remote or accessories--in the box. So if you can live without your stb for a few days, that is the way to go. Have they stopped shipping out the upgrade kit? Got mine a month or so ago. Only took a few minutes.
Hi Dr. Don,
Perhaps you can add to the body of knowledge on this subject. Which box did you do the upgrade on? What version of firmware was it? Is your STB in perfect health now?
Thanks,
MH
MH..
I have the 151 and according to the CD, it's version T151_176. Nobody here is using the flag, yet, so it wasn't in "poor" health to begin with. There was one pesky tuning issue that got solved. It would sometimes stick on subchannels that weren't sending any data. You'd have to turn it off to tune it. It still sticks, but after a couple of seconds, it'll tune off of the channel. Everything else seems just as fine as it always has.
The file is T151_176.raw, if that helps. Same thing I get when I press the "info" button on the STB. Didn't have any problems before, as nobody here's using the flag. There was one tuning issue.. it would stick on a subchannel that had no data. Sometimes, a reboot was the only way out of it. Now, it still sticks, but after a couple of seconds, you can tune away. Otherwise, it seems just as fine as always.
Thanks Dr. Don,
That doesn't sound too bad -- good to know.
MH
motoman
10-02-04, 03:46 PM
So would it be safe to buy a refurb 165 in a sealed box to use with a JVC-40K? Think a factory refurb would have the latest firmware installed already?
Thanks,
Jim
Any new feedback on firmaware upgrade for T151. I have received the CD and am about to take the plunge unless you warn me ;) !
Nothing to tell you about here. Thing still runs just fine. No issues from the upgrade that I can find.
I ordered broadcast flag upgrade kit in December. Got it one week later in US Mail. Did upgrade with no problems, box works slightly better or the same, I'm not sure I can tell. If you get upgrade, I recommend you read all the instructions first, then follow them line by line very carefully.
Bill-99
01-22-05, 01:12 PM
I also have the Samsung SIR-T151. About 6 weeks ago, it started rebooting on one local station. Following up with the local station tech guy, he confirmed that they had just installed the broadcast flag patch into their transmission, along with a few other changes (whatever that means).
I ordered the firmware upgrade kit from Samsung, and it took 2 weeks to arrive. The patch file is named T151_176.raw. IMO, the instructions could be better. The typos and grammar errors could have been caught with a simple spell checker, which would say something about their haste to get this patch out the door. Also, my com port was set to 9600 instead of the 115200 the patch requires, and the patch refused to load until that configuration change was made. After fixing that, the patch installed correctly.
After hooking it back into the system, I rescanned for channels, and now everything looks like it's coming in OK. I haven't watched enough yet to see if there are any issues, so take these comments here as preliminary data.
-Bill
Bill-99
01-28-05, 10:23 PM
The patch seems to be fairly stable. I get audio drop outs from time to time, but it's hard to tell if that's different from before the upgrade when similar problems occurred. Overall, it's been a stable patch for my system, though like all firmware upgrades, install this at your own risk.
Hi - thought I'd mention in this thread that there's a post in the much longer thread on this subject for the 165 that describes a place to download the software for updating the 165 to version 125 (and also to the defective 132/134) here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5034812#post5034812
Also have the Sammy 151 model and ordered the upgrade a few days ago. My question is what symptoms am I supposed to be seeing to warrant my installing this patch?? So far everything seems to be working OK except for a few PSIP problems on a few stations here in Detroit. But those seem to be ironed out now. I've never had mine reboot or hang up, should I install this anyhow or just wait until I have some problems??
Bill-99
02-21-05, 04:29 PM
BCSMan,
In my case, I was having more than a couple of problems. One station locked up my box, another simply wouldn't come in. After applying the patch, results have been very good. The one problem station has since gone off the air and come back -- a local issue, perhaps.
If you aren't having any problems, I'm not sure why you'd install the patch. You know, if it ain't broke... But YMMV. In my case, the patch was a boon.
Good luck,
-Bill
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