Whats the best HDTV CRT

[thedoc46]

Hi,

Still not 100% on the quality of plasma... I know when it's all setup and on HDTV it looks the pants, however most of the stuff out there still looks rather pap to me since the majority is STILL Stand def..

I'm from England, just moving over to the states on monday yipeee, and first things first....I need to buy a new TV... I luv films therefore are gonna go for a 16:9 screen. Would like to go for a 36inch sony DRC 16:9 set I guess. As the quality of CRT to my eyes is still the best for now..

As I don't have any access to any US magazines to read the reviews.. and the tv's in the us are different to the tv's we have here, I'd like to ask all you seasoned experts, otherwise if anyone would be kind enough to point me to some good websites that reviews all the latest tv's ?

What is considered the top 5 CRT widescreen tv's out in the US ? 32inch upwards.. preferably 36inch....

I may, just may bite the bullet and go for a plasma 42 inch... but it would definately have to be HDTV, so whilst i'm on the subject what's reconised as a good model ? I'm just scared that all the standard def is gonna look so poor that i'd of regretted spending all that money on a hdtv plasma...

I think I'm gonna go for the Dish Network HDTV DVR box, unless someone here advises against it ?? In England I had the sky plus box which in all honesty was absolutely fab !!! ok so it wasn't hi def, but cos it was PAL and digital with an rgb output it was rather good !! using a good tv ! i could really see all the detail... i'd like to be able to keep that quality if i can over in the US but from what i've been reading it's gonna have to be hdtv.. I dunno, a lot of people rave on, on how good edtv is, though i can't see how it would even come close..

my biggest prob is, is that i'm currently here in england, therefore unable to do any viewing for myself.. when i get to the usa on monday i really would like a tv as soon as, and that means not having to wait around doing as much research as possible before making my decision.. I kind of need to do as much as possible via good opinion then just do my best to spend a couple of hrs doing a visual demo if that's even possible ? Coming from london, i can demo any tv that's out there within a 1hrs drive.. now that i'm moving to sw florida i guess my selection will be somewhat limited....

kind regards in advance..

[shyguy3763]

I'd say one of the best 36" sets is the Sony 36XS955 it's their newest model, or if you're looking for 16:9, their KD-34xbr960 or 34XS955 which is cheaper you can read up about these sets if you do a search on this forum!

[RobZ]

Sony and Loewe (was)

[RandyWalters]

Originally posted by thedoc46
Would like to go for a 36inch sony DRC 16:9 set I guess. As the quality of CRT to my eyes is still the best for now..

As I don't have any access to any US magazines to read the reviews.. and the tv's in the us are different to the tv's we have here, I'd like to ask all you seasoned experts, otherwise if anyone would be kind enough to point me to some good websites that reviews all the latest tv's ?

What is considered the top 5 CRT widescreen tv's out in the US ? 32inch upwards.. preferably 36inch....

I may, just may bite the bullet and go for a plasma 42 inch... but it would definately have to be HDTV, so whilst i'm on the subject what's reconised as a good model ? I'm just scared that all the standard def is gonna look so poor that i'd of regretted spending all that money on a hdtv plasma...

I think I'm gonna go for the Dish Network HDTV DVR box, unless someone here advises against it ??


my biggest prob is, is that i'm currently here in england, therefore unable to do any viewing for myself.. when i get to the usa on monday i really would like a tv as soon as, and that means not having to wait around doing as much research as possible before making my decision.. I kind of need to do as much as possible via good opinion then just do my best to spend a couple of hrs doing a visual demo if that's even possible ? Coming from london, i can demo any tv that's out there within a 1hrs drive.. now that i'm moving to sw florida i guess my selection will be somewhat limited....

We size TVs differently here in the US than they do in Europe. Your 36" widescreen is actually a 34" widescreen here, then there's also the 30" and 26" widescreens. Our 27", 32", and 36" sets are always 4:3. That'll help when researching TVs here.

The general consensus is that the Sony 34XBR960 is the best, closely followed by the Sony 34XS955. After that it's a bit of a toss-up between the Sony 34HS420, Panny CT34WX54, and Toshiba 34HF84. There's also Zenith and JVC and maybe Philips that all offer 34" sets here. You can probably do online researching for these models easier than finding magazine articles, and you can do it from England :)

Looking at the picture quality on TVs in stores here is almost pointless as the poor store setups and TV settings usually don't look good, nor do they reflect on how good it will look in your home, connected to your video sources. My TV looked like crap in the stores but looks great in my house !

However if i were to get a widescreen, it would have to be a 42" Plasma for sure. Fujitsu and Pioneer are two of the best, but the Panasonics tend to be more popular (they're almost as good but a lot cheaper). Then there's the whole ED/HD thing, but that depends more on budget and requirements.....

As for Dish, you might be better off with DirecTV but that's another subject for another forum. I prefer cable myself but that's just me.

[subysouth]

Well to the States!

I am very interested to hear more about what you were getting in England for a signal. Standard PAL was 576i(50Hz) correct? Have they updated that to an HD format? If so what is it? Are the TVs displaying 576p for instance? Interestingly IMO thats a lot closer to what a lot of the current "HD" CRTs actually have in vertical resolution.

This site is one of the best in terms of info on TVs. Start reading :) .

To answer your questions more directly. Sony, Panasonic and Toshiba are all making excellent 34" widescreen TVs. Sony seems to be getting the nod these days because they have filled their newest sets with important features like OTA HD and QAM SD an HD tuners and are using a proprietary finer pitch screen(although IMO unless you are sitting close to the screen this may or may not be a plus to you.)

In terms of size vs dollar vs performance, its hard to beat a ED plasma at 42".

There are no 42" plasmas I am am aware of that will do "full" HD(mimimum 1280x720 here in the states.) There are several that sort of grudgingly get the nob as HD plasmas at 1024x768 but thats not full HD and is using off-square pixels(1024x768 is a 4:3 proile thats being laid on a 16:9 screen.)

If you want 42" I would recommend the ED plasma. If you want 34", I would ask you where you sit relative to the screen. If you wouldnt mind using a HTPC(home theater PC) I might expand the 34" suggestions a bit also from the industry leaders and include some that accept computer input.

ss

[subysouth]

Originally posted by PikminZeez
The best HDTV CRT is the Sony KD-34XBR960. Period.

Depends on how you want to drive it. If you want to use a HTPC, the Sony isnt the best choice.

ss

[walterc]

I've got an Hit 57s715 for my family room, but I may want to put an HDTV in my office, and a 34 inch screen would be about right. I had my 57s715 ISF calibrated, but if I went with the Sony KD-34XBR960 for my office would it be realitvely easy to fine tune and tweak by a novice?

[Artwood]

The 34XBR 960 is the only Direct-view set that has Firewire connections. It is the greatest PERIOD! The Mitsubishi 73-inch RP CRT set with 9-inch tubes is the best RP CRT PERIOD! The Fujitsu P50 50 inch Plasma is the best Plasma PERIOD! The Hitachi Director's series 50VX915 is the best RP LCD PERIOD! The Sammy Kirk is the best DLP PERIOD! The upcoming 70-inch Sony SXRD is the best non CRT set PERIOD! The Panasonic 42-inch Plasma is the best EDTV PERIOD! I am one of the few posters that know all these facts, but don't tell everyone I'm the greatest--it's true, but I like to be humble about it!

[shpankey]

^^^ he's actually right about all those sets, well at least in most of our opinions. he nailed them, that's a great list to go by.

[TrueDis]

Originally posted by Artwood
The 34XBR 960 is the only Direct-view set that has Firewire connections.

What exactly can you do with a firewire connection these days anyway? I remember hearing about how they'd be the connection of choice way back in the day before DVI and then HDMI, but I don't know of any application for them anymore (in terms of TV inputs anyway)

[subysouth]

Originally posted by Artwood
The 34XBR 960 is the only Direct-view set that has Firewire connections. It is the greatest PERIOD!

Why? Because it fails do do 1080i by a closer margin than other 34" CRTs?

The best picture you are going to get from any CRT is it being driven progressively to its highest possible resolution. The Sony doesnt do this, not even close in fact.

The Sampo 34" HD monitor that allows variable input via a PC connection with pixel mapping while having slightly lower resolution, uses its resolution better.

While several of your other choices are on the money, this pick lacks vision.:p

If youd care to discuss it further, we can.

ss

[Artwood]

subysouth: Do you think the Princeton Graphic 3.6 HD 36-inch set that could do 720P NATIVE would be the best at maximizing resolution?

[subysouth]

Originally posted by Artwood
subysouth: Do you think the Princeton Graphic 3.6 HD 36-inch set that could do 720P NATIVE would be the best at maximizing resolution?

Yes and sorta no.

Yes because it has a user definable pixel mappable(word?) input.

No because it cant actually do 720p in a 4:3 window and certainly not a 16:9 window. Also IMO widescreen is generally gonna be the better choice for todays viewing.

ss

edit: And maximizing resolution is not always the best approach. How much resolution you need is interactive with viewing distnace and screen size. More resolution on a CRT also generally means less light output. A complaint being lodged about the newest Sony's is light clutter in the tube which could be caused by Sony inherently overdriving the phosphors to compensate for their smaller size.

[Artwood]

You can RECORD directly with a Firewire connection. You can never do that with HDMI. The reason display manufacturers don't include Firewire is they want toal control of the signal at the set-top box point! They're scared to death that even though Firewire is copyright protected that someone may do something with the signal as it is output from their set that they don't want done. What they really don't want is a person to move a Copy-once recording from a DVR to D-VHS for archiving. They're afraid if Joe Sixpack can record toD-VHS HBO 1080i movies that he'll spend less money buying pre-recorded material. It doesn't have to do with copyright--it has to do with greed and as long as they can control the set-top box manufacturers they can stop that scenario legally. That's why you see HDMI and not Firewire!

[Artwood]

subysouth: do you think will ever see 1920 by 1080 progressive where every pixel is displayed no matter what format or no matter what size window? That would really be great!

[subysouth]

Originally posted by Artwood
You can RECORD directly with a Firewire connection. You can never do that with HDMI. The reason display manufacturers don't include Firewire is they want toal control of the signal at the set-top box point! They're scared to death that even though Firewire is copyright protected that someone may do something with the signal as it is output from their set that they don't want done. What they really don't want is a person to move a Copy-once recording from a DVR to D-VHS for archiving. They're afraid if Joe Sixpack can record toD-VHS HBO 1080i movies that he'll spend less money buying pre-recorded material. It doesn't have to do with copyright--it has to do with greed and as long as they can control the set-top box manufacturers they can stop that scenario legally. That's why you see HDMI and not Firewire!

There is currently little worth "stealing" IMO and better ways to do it if you chose to than cylcing it through your set. Firewire is an extra but shouldnt be a deciding factor on a set.

ss

[subysouth]

Originally posted by Artwood
subysouth: do you think will ever see 1920 by 1080 progressive where every pixel is displayed no matter what format or no matter what size window? That would really be great!

Without a doubt, we have it now in RPTV and FPTV. It would however be pointless(and nigh on impossible due to gun speed limits) on a 34" CRT tv unless you want to view it in a fully darkened room from about 3-4'.

I sit 3.5' from my 19 CRT computer monitor for instance. I dont watch tv at that range, most people dont.

At 8' the average human can resolve about .9-1mm(the average pixel size of most large format CRTs coincidentally;) ) of resolution. You can start doing the math from there. If you want to sit closer, you need smaller pixels and either a smaller screen or more total resolution on the same size screen.

What Sony did with the 34" Super Fine pitch screens was really to invite you to sit closer(about 6' for the average person) to take advantage of the finer resolution.

ss

edit: What we need are bigger screens with more resolution and CRT performance. Lets hope SED delivers....

[Artwood]

subysouth: Did the Sony 24-inch GDM-FW900 have the maximum resolution of all times in a direct-view display?

[subysouth]

Originally posted by Artwood
subysouth: Did the Sony 24-inch GDM-FW900 have the maximum resolution of all times in a direct-view display?

At 115kHz of bandwidth it doesnt have the highest bandwidth I have seen, but in screen resolution it has to be one of the highest, certainly in the widescreen CRT arena.

However again whether thats a good thing depends on how close you will be to the screen. The resolution of the FW900 at 8' is useless.

See what I mean? You need to decide how far away you want to be and the screen size and then you can do the math to give you a close mark for the resolution(pitch) the device needs to be for maximum resolution vs brightness. Or you could do it the other way and decide the resolution you want and do the math on how big the screen needs to be. Then you need to use the full potential of that resolution by driving it progressively.

ss

"Tell me what you eat and I'll tell you what you are."

[drogulus]

Subysouth and anyone else,

Why not one of the Sampo monitors, available here (http://www.computeronline.com/sampo.html) and elsewhere? Wouldn't they be ideal for both PC/HD usage? It seems strange, given all the gamers and HTPC types on this site, there's not more talk about these.

[DSperber]

Originally posted by drogulus
Why not one of the Sampo monitors? I had a Sampo 34WHD5 for four years, until it's picture tube recently died and I had to replace it. I went with the Sony 34XBR960 for numerous reasons... not the least of which is that the Sampo is simply unavailable any longer. I think you may find that this web site is simply out of date, and that if you called them for availability they'd say "sorry, that page is out of date. we don't have any."

The Sampo picture is visually stunning, and it actually displays 720p at a native 720p (not upconverted to 1080i like the Sony does). So that's a good. Picture is truly stunning.

However the Sampo only has one YPbPr component video input, which does not support 480i (making it a bit of a pain when using JVC D-VHS VCR's that put out some of their newer onscreen menus and graphics in 480i). Assuming you have multiple component video devices you'll need a component video switch, such as the 4-in-to-1-out Zektor.

Also, the Sampo only has one S-video input (on the front of the set, not the rear). Again, this is problematic if you have several several SD sources, necessitating using an S-video/audio switch such as the 4-in-to-1-out which can be bought at Radio Shack.

Also, the Sampo has no HDMI or DVI input, nor does it have firewire input... if these are important to you.

Also, the Sampo has no integrated ATSC tuner (which means it's just a pure monitor, which could be considered a plus).

The Sampo actually has better built-in speakers and audio than the Sony, if that's of any value.

Anyway, I still think you will find the Sampo totally unavailable for purchase in the real world. I investigated when mine died, before finally deciding to go with the Sony which had 3-year newer technology and many many more inputs.

[drogulus]

DSperber,

Thanks for your detailed reply. I guess the only way to find out about availability is to start making calls.

As to the input limitations, I don't see this as a major concern for people interested in HTPC solutions, or gaming. Monivision/Princeton/Proton have limitations, too. Sampo + Iscan Ultra ($400 these days) for DVD/Cable/Sat could be one solution.

But it's all moot if you're right about unavailablity.

[drogulus]

I just emailed Computer Online about availability of the 27",32", and 34" monitors. Their order info page was quite explicit that "usually ships next business day" means they are in stock. "Add to Cart" works as well. Didn't proceed to checkout, though.
I'll report back when I get a reply.

[subysouth]

DS made an excellent post. To that I would add the VGA input with a HTPC is the real gift of the Sampo. Complete ability to dial input to the screens native resolution.

Why they havent sold well is limited dealer network, silver, $2k plus, limited brand name recognition.

It is a phenomenal set though, if you can find one. It was WSR's reference CRT until this past year when it was bumped by the Sony 34" SFP set which offers much less control of input.

ss

[DSperber]

Originally posted by drogulus
I'll report back when I get a reply. As was just posted, the VGA input on the Sampo 34 makes it a terrific monitor for your HTPC. I remember hearing of those that had done that several years back, including running the "Marine Aquarium" screen saver which apparently looked fabulous in 16x9 (and fooled lots of pet cats, I hear). You might consider this yourself, if you want to wow your friends.

Anyway, if you do find one and decide to go with it, let me know. I'm curious if it will be what I heard was a later model version that had a second S-video input on the rear in response to customer complaints.


Although I've tossed my dead Sampo I did keep the two remotes I had, in case some other Sampo owner wanted them.

One is the "service remote" which allows you to get into the set's service menu directly without any special power-on trickery with the standard "user remote" (which is an alternative method that was subsequently discovered and written about in the forum, for those who did not have a "service remote"). You need to get into the service menu in order to correct any of the geometry settings for the non-HD inputs, unlike for the HD inputs where most of the common geometry adjustments have been put on the user menu (although some still require the service menu).

The second is a second-generation "user remote" (perhaps that went along with the rumored second version of the set itself, with the second S-video input on the rear) that supported "direct access" buttons for each of the various source inputs. The original version of the "user remote" only had a single "input" button (like the current Sony 34XBR960 has, regrettably) which cycles sequentially through all the inputs as your press it repeatedly. Annoying, and slow. This second-generation remote was MUCH appreciated.

Anyway, I still have both of these remotes even if I don't have the TV itself. So if you do get one, contact me and I'll let you have these remotes.

I'll also give you a copy of my "setup settings" although I would guess the values for my set (and taste) would not necessarily apply to any other set (and taste). Each of the Sampo's settings (both user and service) is some value between 1 and 256, which makes setup a dream and allows you to always go back exactly to what you have "in production" if you should accidentally hit RESET or lose everything (assuming you wrote down what all of your settings were). As with the Sony sets, some of the service menu items are "global" (i.e. they apply to all inputs and all input modes) and others are "input-specific" or "input-mode-specific" (e.g. 480p, 720p, 1080i).

Whatever the story, you'll really love the pin-point precision setup and spectacular visual results you get from this set (if you actually get it). Genuinely remarkable. And even right out of the box I never had any of the convergence problems I just finished fighting with for three weeks and three Sony technician visits and lots of permalloy magnets on my new Sony XBR960 (fortunately, with a very happy ending). I believe it was a Toshiba 34" tube, and it didn't seem to have any of the issues found on the 34" Trinitron. Either that, or I was just very lucky with my set.

Let us know what you decide to to.

[drogulus]

Dsperber,

Thanks again for your help and your very generous offer as well.

I have to say I'm pursuing several options at once, and I suppose I'm caught in the classic paralysis/analysis bind. Right now I'm looking at:

The new Panasonic ED plasma.
The new Fujitsu ED, which I've seen and is fabulous.
The Sony 32XS945 w/SFP (if I chicken out:) )
The 32" Proton....They may have dumbed down their models, considering the relatively low price and skimpy info on their website.

The Sampo units are sort of a shot in the dark, but I keep running across them in my searches so I've got to check them out.

[Zerobit]

DSperber,

Could you possibly explain some of the process you went through with the magnets on your Sony XBR960. Was this covered under the warranty to have a Sony Tech come fix it?

[cajieboy]

Originally posted by Zerobit
DSperber,

Could you possibly explain some of the process you went through with the magnets on your Sony XBR960. Was this covered under the warranty to have a Sony Tech come fix it?

I just had the "greenies" fixed on my Sony 40XBR a few weeks back. The TV was a few months out of the Sony Warranty so I enacted my Circuit City 5-Year Extended Warranty program. In the beginning, I wasn't very hopeful that this problem along the edges of the screen could be properly repaired w/o getting a new tube, but I was wrong. The CC Tech tweaked the yoke a bit, and then carefully placed the little magnets and moving them slightly until all the edge "greenies" were gone. Now I'm back to the original specs and fantastic PQ!

BTW, if you want a tube over 34", then I have to say the Sony 40XBR should be on your short list. The only problem is the Sony discontinued this model last year. Too bad, because the 40" fullscreen 4:3 pic is near DVD quality in SD, and has a beautiful razor sharp 37" 16:9 screen in HD. You may want to take a look at the newer Sony 36" HDTV (which would be a 38"er in England).

[wohlstad]

The 40XBR is a great set, but the 36XS955 is better still - the resolution of the SFP tube is much higher and it shows.

[alalk]

I think tht there are other considerations as well, for instance. Some TV's calibrate better than others. Some have better geom. I'm very happy w/my 34HF84. There is always better, but in my livingroom....

[cajieboy]

Originally posted by wohlstad
The 40XBR is a great set, but the 36XS955 is better still - the resolution of the SFP tube is much higher and it shows.

Yeah, I can only imagine how nice those Sony SFP Tubes are in action, but at the time I bought mine they did not exist. But then, at the time, I wanted something in the 40+" range and debated going Plasma for months before deciding on the 40XBR. I still think I made the right decision at the time. Now, in 2005, I REALLY want a 50-60" Plasma but will wait awhile longer for better tech & prices, and just enjoy the 40"er Baby Huey.

[DSperber]

Originally posted by drogulus
I just emailed Computer Online about availability of the 27",32", and 34" monitors. Their order info page was quite explicit that "usually ships next business day" means they are in stock. "Add to Cart" works as well. Didn't proceed to checkout, though.
I'll report back when I get a reply. So... did you ever get a reply? Did you call them to follow up? Do they have one in stock for you to buy?

Just curious. I loved this set.

[DSperber]

Originally posted by Zerobit
Could you possibly explain some of the process you went through with the magnets on your Sony XBR960. Was this covered under the warranty to have a Sony Tech come fix it? Yes, the visits by Sony technicians were covered by warranty. This was a brand new just-purchased just-delivered set that definitely needed adjustment.

The first visit was from a Sony factory tech (sent by Sony). Not impressive, and he was only willing to spend limited time working on the problem. He finally decided "it was within spec" (which didn't mean it was acceptable to me) and decided it was time to leave. He also refused to come back a second time. He did most of his initial work with the service menu for the gross problems that were correctible via software, but eventually had to take the back off the set to place a few magnets on the back of the picture tube (they come mounted on tape, ready to be pressed on). Again, his work was incomplete and unsatisfactory.

The second visit was from a local Sony authorized service place, because I insisted that Sony allow me to get a "second opinion" if their factory tech refused to come out again. I wanted to know if my set could be improved from the way the first guy left it, or perhaps if the set was defective and should be exchanged. So they authorized the second opinion tech visit... still under warranty.

This guy was great, and he really enjoyed my knowledge of HDTV and how (and why) to tweak the set for maximum performance. He spent about 1 1/2 hours sticking magnets all around the back of the picture tube, while looking at a reflection of the screen in a mirror that I held.

Nothing fancy going on here, other than trial and error with magnet placement. Simple mechanics of an ordinary small flat magnet mounted on tape and pressed to the back of the tube where it sticks, but dramatic results from the small magnetic effect on deflection of the electron beams.

Obviously, he knew in advnace where on the tube the magnet placement would have the desired effect he was working on, depending on what he was trying to accomplish (convergence or geometry) at what location around the screen. Clearly, this came from formal training although I suppose anybody could eventually figure out these same relationships once they see for themselves the effect of putting a magnet in a certain location. But I personally would never fool around inside a TV. That's what the techs are for.

Anyway, he ran out of magnets on his first visit and still hadn't achieved the results we were both looking for. So he came back a second time a week later, with more magnets and with another hour or so to spend. This time he really did get the set to where I was satisfied (though it's still not absolutely perfect when test patterns are viewed, but definitely totally acceptable when actual TV content and onscreen guide/menu text is viewed).

Normally, Sony probably wouldn't have paid for the second visit (and in fact I'm not really sure they did). But he came out anyway (and didn't charge me) because he knew he hadn't finished the job on his first visit. I gave him a $20 tip just the same, for his attitude and effort.

[Zerobit]

DSperber thanks for the detailed reply. Ive had my XBR960 for about a month and I have these geometry problems too. When you view the onscreen cable guide you can see the lines swoosh up or down on the edges of the screen. I am trying to decide if its worth it to have a guy come out and try to fix it.

[alalk]

That's my point. A lot of things go into defining "best TV" Tosh according to Greg Loewen has superior geomatry. My 34HF84 is perfect to naked eye. Stretch modes are fantastic (theater wide 2 anyway) something important to me, and while not as detailed as Sony XBR, still great PQ and I'm not paying for a tuner I have no use for

[jmccorm]

Originally posted by subysouth
At 115kHz of bandwidth it doesnt have the highest bandwidth I have seen, but in screen resolution it has to be one of the highest, certainly in the widescreen CRT arena.

However again whether thats a good thing depends on how close you will be to the screen. The resolution of the FW900 at 8' is useless.

I've got its cousin running 2048x1280 @ 78p. Monitor reports bandwidth as 97.7kHz. My eyes are a little over 1 foot away. (Readability gets tough at 3 feet away.) I'm itching to try it out with my HD DVR, but I've got to find me a converter to go from component video to RGB/VGA.

The other way around would be tempting, but with an AMP 3000XP+ CPU, I can't do a smooth job of 1080i WMVs, only 720p.

EDIT: I thought something was fishy in my config. That should be 2048x1280 @70p, 92.7kHz.

[drogulus]

DSperber,

I haven't had a reply to my email yet. I'm going to have to call them, it looks like. Or try someplace else. I'll let you know how it goes.

I alluded to the suitability of the Sampos for HTPC useage as well as gaming, but 2 other reasons are more important to me. One is overall PQ, since knowledgeable and experienced people on this board rate it very highly, and the second is that it accepts practically any signal you can throw at it. I have several PAL discs, and I'll be getting alot more, and it would be nice to have a display that could handle them without conversion. Most plasmas will do that, but very few CRTs will.

[Q of BanditZ]

Originally posted by subysouth


edit: What we need are bigger screens with more resolution and CRT performance. Lets hope SED delivers....

On paper, SED looks to be arguably the most likely successor to the CRT tubes we all love. Sadly, I can't see these being remotely affordable until 2008.

[Artwood]

All we are saying is give CRT a chance!

Keep hope alive!

Pray for deliverance from the gray horror world of other technologies!

Remember the days when people like Cajieboy posted here at this forum and actually loved CRT!

Put your arms on the shoulders of people like yours truely and Q of BanditZ--we will survive this awful battle and one day reign in the land of great black levels--a land that will even satisfy subysouth! Picture Quality Camelot will come again when the AVS needs her most!

[cajieboy]

Hey Artwood, I STILL do love CRT, and that's what I'm enjoying now. Beautiful PQ w/outstanding color & deep blacks that also show detail like nothing else I've seen. The rub w/me is that I want an even larger screen than the 40"er I've already got. Yeah that's right, I've been bitten by the damn Home Theater Bug...excuse me if from time to time I get the crazies as it's just the plasma fever rearing its head.

[subysouth]

Well said Art, I am still carrying a torch for a mainstream NR CRT even if it has to be limited to 34" under current CRT tech.

IMO there is still cause for hope that the manufacturers arent done with CRT development yet. The pictures at these limited sizes on a few sets are already great, with a little more work they could be window-like.

ss

[Artwood]

For all you people out there that don't believe in reflected images just tell the Keck telescope people!

[Q of BanditZ]

Originally posted by Artwood
All we are saying is give CRT a chance!

Keep hope alive!

Pray for deliverance from the gray horror world of other technologies!

Remember the days when people like Cajieboy posted here at this forum and actually loved CRT!

Put your arms on the shoulders of people like yours truely and Q of BanditZ--we will survive this awful battle and one day reign in the land of great black levels--a land that will even satisfy subysouth! Picture Quality Camelot will come again when the AVS needs her most!

If I could get a WS Tube larger than 34 inches, I'd do it.

[Artwood]

I just hope they keep making 34-inchers. The big question now is will the Sony 960 have a successor and how much longer will they make 36-inch 4:3s.

[cajieboy]

I know Sony's 40"er 4:3 HDTV didn't stay around that long. I'm glad I bought mine when I did because at the time the over 40" Plasma screens were really outrageous in price, so that factored into my choice, that fact and tech problems. Also, I don't like TV tech to dictate my viewing habits, and don't hesitate a second to watch a 4:3 program as the 40XBR displays SD w/near DVD quality. Of course, nothing beats the HD resolution and the 40XBR has that down too. I never worry about burning in black bars because I left my TV on for hours after falling asleep watching it. To me a stretched or zoomed screen is unacceptable, so no problem there either. All of this crap would all go away if FCC mandated all HD programming, but I ain't hold'in my breath on that one. Looks like this broadcast transition period will remain coasting along at a snails pace.

[Artwood]

What's your next move cajieboy--50-inch 1366 X 768 Plasma? That's where I'd go next unless 1080p DLP or 1080p D'ILA look much better than there 720p counterparts. Regardless of which technology you go with it'll be hard to get great black levels without paying premium dollar.

[subysouth]

Originally posted by cajieboy
Also, I don't like TV tech to dictate my viewing habits, and don't hesitate a second to watch a 4:3 program as the 40XBR displays SD w/near DVD quality. Of course, nothing beats the HD resolution and the 40XBR has that down too.

I m glad you are enjoying your set but how any of the 4:3 sets are handling HD material is questionable to say the least.

Start trying to do the math on how a set can do 480 lines full screen and 1080 lines in a 16:9 window in that same screen with essentialy identical beam spot sizes and screen pitch.

The behavior of a 4:3 window in a ws set is more easy to explain, although still with compromises.

ss

[cajieboy]

Originally posted by Artwood
What's your next move cajieboy--50-inch 1366 X 768 Plasma? That's where I'd go next unless 1080p DLP or 1080p D'ILA look much better than there 720p counterparts. Regardless of which technology you go with it'll be hard to get great black levels without paying premium dollar.

During these past few months when I thought I would be swapping out my 40XBR for another display I began to seriously look at what was out there in the 50+" size. I was a bit restricted due to the fact I would have had to choose from Circuit City's stock. I had pretty much decided that a 50" Plasma would be my final choice even though it would cost at least twice as much as I had paid for the 40XBR.

Now that my tube is properly repaired and displaying beautiful pics again, I'm relieved to not have to make the choice at this time. I have about 2.5 years left on my CC 5-Year Warranty, and my original plan all along was to keep the 40XBR as my main display until that warranty expired. Now I feel I can return to my original plan, and wait to see what new TV tech evolves over the next few years, and prices will definitely be dropping during this time frame. We may be seeing a 1080p Plasma display sometime next year, and then there is SED around the corner, as well as Sony's SXRD. We'll see...

[GregLee]

Originally posted by cajieboy
Hey Artwood, I STILL do love CRT, and that's what I'm enjoying now. Beautiful PQ w/outstanding color & deep blacks that also show detail like nothing else I've seen.
Me too. I had a 32" 4:3 set, and to go 16:9 HD with the 4:3 portion of the screen at least as big as my old set, I'd have to get at least a 40". Since there aren't any direct view 40" sets any more, I did the obvious thing. Got a crt rear projector (47" Panasonic). I'm very happy with the choice -- night scenes look great.

[Q of BanditZ]

Originally posted by Artwood
What's your next move cajieboy--50-inch 1366 X 768 Plasma? That's where I'd go next unless 1080p DLP or 1080p D'ILA look much better than there 720p counterparts. Regardless of which technology you go with it'll be hard to get great black levels without paying premium dollar.

I'm amazed that you, of all people, are endorsing plasma to anyone. ;) Where's that CRT loyalty?! Don't fail me now! :p

[cajieboy]

Originally posted by GregLee
Me too. I had a 32" 4:3 set, and to go 16:9 HD with the 4:3 portion of the screen at least as big as my old set, I'd have to get at least a 40". Since there aren't any direct view 40" sets any more, I did the obvious thing. Got a crt rear projector (47" Panasonic). I'm very happy with the choice -- night scenes look great.

Due to living in the Sunshine State and the fact that there's wall to wall glass on the backside of our home, a CRT Projector solution would not work for me. I've looked at just about every angle of this situation you can imagine, and at the time I purchased my 40XBR it seemed to be the best solution w/as little compromises as I could get away with and still be a happy camper. If I had to start fresh from the beginning this very moment in 2005, I'd probably go for the Fujitsu P50/40, but then I'd be spending almost 3 times the amount of money when all was said & done. Yikes!!!:D

[Artwood]

Q of Banditz: I'm not advocating people abandon CRT--I will break down crying when there are no great CRTs still left--I'm afraid that's coming--maybe we'll get a few more years reprieve. What would you buy if you COULDN'T buy CRT?

[DavidML3]

Originally posted by shpankey
^^^ he's actually right about all those sets, well at least in most of our opinions. he nailed them, that's a great list to go by.

i agree except for the Mitsu. I would go directors Hitachi x series. Also the Loewe aconda 38" is also right up there with the sony and its bigger

[DSperber]

Originally posted by drogulus
I haven't had a reply to my email yet. I'm going to have to call them, it looks like. Or try someplace else. I'll let you know how it goes. Just following up again...

Did you ever phone them? What was their response?

[nathan118]

People were talking about the 34XBR960, and I've got a question...

I'd been planning on buying the 34XS955, and simply hooking it up to an OTA signal. However, as I look at some of the current DVR's like the JVC HM-DH5U D-VHS box, or the upcoming Sony recorders, am I going to need the firewire of the XBR set? From what I read I think this is right, but I'm still not sure.

If I want to use most digital recorders and an OTA signal...I'm gonna need a firewire output from my TV?

This place is a life saver!

[kny3twalker]

yeah to use a D VHS box you would need the ilink feature of the XBR
but most DVHS recorders have to obey the broadcast flag already as I understand it

[nathan118]

Did a little reading on the broadcast flag...basically if it's turned on the device it's being sent to is supposed to "restrict" the distribution of it.

How exactly does it restrict? Over the hdmi and firewire connections? They just trying to keep people from transferring stuff to computers/dvds etc?

[finaldiet]

Read your posts and thought you guys can really help me. I'm waiting for my HR10-250 to arrive and was wondering whats the best way to hook it up. I have a Sony wega XBR910. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks

[RandyWalters]

Originally posted by finaldiet
Read your posts and thought you guys can really help me. I'm waiting for my HR10-250 to arrive and was wondering whats the best way to hook it up. I have a Sony wega XBR910.....

What exactly is an "HR10-250" ?

[nathan118]

A Direct-TV Hughes HD Tivo.

[PNeski]

While the 34xbr960 is great,it isn't even the best sony tube,and
thats not counting Pro stuff.
In Japan They have a 10,000 dollar(ugh!) Qualia 34 inch set .

[triumph66]

Originally posted by PNeski
While the 34xbr960 is great,it isn't even the best sony tube,and
thats not counting Pro stuff.
In Japan They have a 10,000 dollar(ugh!) Qualia 34 inch set .

Really? What's the Qualia model number then?

Like 006 is the 70" set and 007 are the headphones. What's the 34"?

[nathan118]

My Theatre Plan (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=536663)

If anyone has some suggestions for my equipment I'd really appreciate it, thanks!

[kny3twalker]

Did a little reading on the broadcast flag...basically if it's turned on the device it's being sent to is supposed to "restrict" the distribution of it.

How exactly does it restrict? Over the hdmi and firewire connections? They just trying to keep people from transferring stuff to computers/dvds etc?



it would be on firewire as the HDMI is input on the TV
and yes it is just another way the MPAA and RIAA
treat the average consumer as pirates (of course sharing 9 GB/hour files is fun over 128kb-768kb upload speeds)

if you want to read some real BS propaganda
http://www.mpaa.org/Press/Broadcast_Flag_QA.htm

may favorite was the last

the screensavers version is more realistic
http://www.g4tv.com/screensavers/features/39462/Understanding_the_Broadcast_Flag.html


Read your posts and thought you guys can really help me. I'm waiting for my HR10-250 to arrive and was wondering whats the best way to hook it up. I have a Sony wega XBR910. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks

DVI or component should be fine

[PNeski]

Really? What's the Qualia model number then?

Like 006 is the 70" set and 007 are the headphones. What's the 34"?

ITs 015 ,and from what I been hearing its not coming out here,it was
one of the first batch of Qualia models and can be found on their
Japanese page,
its clearly better looking then the ones out here

[kny3twalker]

ITs 015 ,and from what I been hearing its not coming out here,it was
one of the first batch of Qualia models and can be found on their
Japanese page,
its clearly better looking then the ones out here


can you post a direct link?, please

and thanks


EDIT
nevermind here it is translated
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.sony.jp/products/Consumer/QUALIA/jp/products/015/&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.sony.jp/products/Consumer/QUALIA/jp/products/015/index.html%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG

nice looking but I bet the XBR960 is nicer

[subysouth]

I'd like some stats for that much change.

ss

[RandyWalters]

Originally posted by kny3twalker

EDIT
nevermind here it is translated
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.sony.jp/products/Consumer/QUALIA/jp/products/015/&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.sony.jp/products/Consumer/QUALIA/jp/products/015/index.html%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG

nice looking but I bet the XBR960 is nicer


I just love reading Japanese-to-Engrish translations:

"From October 1st of 2003, the monitor itself and the private speaker, it modified in single item sale of the private floor lamp." :D

[cajieboy]

That's really funny. Something coherent was definitely lost in the translation.

I've been doing something today you'd NEVER do w/a Plasma...leaving the TV ON all day and night. Yep, got up this morning around 6:00am and turned the 40XBR on the NEWS, and the damn thing has been on ever since w/mostly 4:3 programming! Would anyone w/a Plasma ever do this? Hell NO! But as Alfred E. Newman once said "WHAT ME WORRY?".:D

This kind of use and abuse is quite common w/CRT owners. We get accustomed to the fact that our TV's are built like a Sherman Tank and can take just about anything we can do to it w/o horrific consequences or major concern. Not so w/other types of displays. This is especially true w/Plasma TV's where most owners walk around on egg shells the for the first 100 hours or so, and treat the TV like a newborn. After that, the Display is regarded w/reference and who would even DARE to fall asleep watching a 4:3 program??!! Heaven forbid the very thought of it! Yeah, I'll miss CRT when I go Big Screen...

[DTV TiVo Dealer]

LG just began shipping their 30" 16x9 integrated CRT direct view HDTV. This new model has the highly acclaimed 5th generation ATSC tuner and clear QAM tuner built-in.

-Robert

VE Advanced Digital Technology Dealer

[RandyWalters]

Originally posted by DTV TiVo Dealer
LG just began shipping their 30" 16x9 integrated CRT direct view HDTV.....

LG makes tube TVs? I don't see any tube TVs on their website, just Plasmas and RPTVs.

[subysouth]

Zenith = LG

I would dare say LG would do as well marketing LG tubes here. Zenith is about shot reputationwise unfortunately.

ss

[DTV TiVo Dealer]

LG's new direct view CRT HDTV's are so new they have not put them on their site. We have them in stock and listed on our site. Here's a link to the pdf data sheet http://valueelectronics.com/images/pdf/h_30fz4d.pdf

The pdf is slow loading so please be patient. The data sheet does not explain the 5th generation ATSC tuner, but I can tell you it performs flawlessly.

-Robert

VE Advanced Digital Technology Dealer

[CaptinCrunch]

Originally posted by DTV TiVo Dealer
LG's new direct view CRT HDTV's are so new they have not put them on their site. We have them in stock and listed on our site. Here's a link to the pdf data sheet http://valueelectronics.com/images/pdf/h_30fz4d.pdf

The pdf is slow loading so please be patient. The data sheet does not explain the 5th generation ATSC tuner, but I can tell you it performs flawlessly.

-Robert

VE Advanced Digital Technology Dealer

Will LG market a 34" set? The 30" looks very nice but is to small for my livingroom. The only thing that I don't like is it's 37" width, LG would benifit better if the speakers where on the bottom.

[subysouth]

Originally posted by DTV TiVo Dealer
LG's new direct view CRT HDTV's are so new they have not put them on their site. We have them in stock and listed on our site. Here's a link to the pdf data sheet http://valueelectronics.com/images/pdf/h_30fz4d.pdf

The pdf is slow loading so please be patient. The data sheet does not explain the 5th generation ATSC tuner, but I can tell you it performs flawlessly.

-Robert

VE Advanced Digital Technology Dealer

Does it have both ATSC OTA and ATSC QAM tuners? CableCarded?

Any word on their proposed slim sets?

ss

[DTV TiVo Dealer]

LG will market only 2 CRT HDTV's, both are 30" 16x9 aspect ratio models. The second model will cost an additional $100. and be a slim design, availability is scheduled for August 2005.

Both models have built-in 5th generation advanced ATSC and clear QAM tuners.

-Robert

VE Advanced Digital Technology Dealer

[subysouth]

Originally posted by DTV TiVo Dealer
LG will market only 2 CRT HDTV's, both are 30" 16x9 aspect ratio models. The second model will cost an additional $100. and be a slim design, availability is scheduled for August 2005.

Both models have built-in 5th generation advanced ATSC and clear QAM tuners.

-Robert

VE Advanced Digital Technology Dealer

I am confused about the benefit of a clear QAM tuner. I have two cable STB QAM tuners here in my house, but none of the additional programming they provide is free. I guess someday it might be.

ss

[DTV TiVo Dealer]

The built-in clear QAM tuner will receive all un-encrypted HD and analog channels. You need a cableCard or cable HD box to receive premium channels.

-Robert

VE Advanced Digital Technology Dealer

[subysouth]

Originally posted by DTV TiVo Dealer
The built-in clear QAM tuner will receive all un-encrypted HD and analog channels. You need a cableCard or cable HD box to receive premium channels.

-Robert

VE Advanced Digital Technology Dealer

Probably a semantics thing, but the QAM tuner only recieves digital signals. I think you mean SD(480i digital.) You can have SD, ED and HD QAM signals(all digital.)

Unfortunately with my cable provider(CableOne) there is no such thing as a free digital signal of any kind. All my digital channels are part of a premiuim digital pack. I have to pay for Speed, TechTV, etc.

ss

[kny3twalker]

Unfortunately with my cable provider(CableOne) there is no such thing as a free digital signal of any kind. All my digital channels are part of a premiuim digital pack. I have to pay for Speed, TechTV, etc.

suby he said unencrypted meaning locals generally
unless your provider has not turned on encryption yet

and the broadcast flag was killed today !!!!

[subysouth]

Originally posted by kny3twalker
suby he said unencrypted meaning locals generally
unless your provider has not turned on encryption yet

and the broadcast flag was killed today !!!!

Everything digital is encrypted on CableOne.

Every channel 100 and up including HD versions of ABC, CBS, etc. carried on cable is encrypted. You have to buy an HD pack and rent THEIR box to get the HD channels. They also dont support CableCard thus far.

Now I cna get two HD stations OTA with the OTA tuner and an antenna.

ss

[kny3twalker]

your local are not suppose to be encrypted I thought according to the FCC
for means of firewire capture and such

[subysouth]

Originally posted by kny3twalker
your local are not suppose to be encrypted I thought according to the FCC
for means of firewire capture and such

You mean my cable co is supposed to pick up the local HD stations and put them on their cable and in digital for free?

I cant test because my two cable STBs have no HD capable ouputs. I have to pay extra for the HD capable STBs.

ss

[kny3twalker]

You mean my cable co is supposed to pick up the local HD stations and put them on their cable and in digital for free?

only free if you do not need their STB
are any of your HDTVs actual HDTVs or HD monitors?

if you could try to connect the cable directly to the TV, if it can do QAM and see if you pick up the locals in HD

[drogulus]

DSperber,

Well, sheer laziness has prevented me from replying to your questions. I called Computer Online today and was told that none of the Sampo CRTs was available. I think that option really is gone for good. But thanks again for your help.

I'm now thinking that an ED plasma is the way to go, particularly considering my desire for maximum input signal flexibility.

[subysouth]

Originally posted by kny3twalker
only free if you do not need their STB
are any of your HDTVs actual HDTVs or HD monitors?

if you could try to connect the cable directly to the TV, if it can do QAM and see if you pick up the locals in HD

Monitors. No built in tuners yet. Interesting, I'm gonna call them and see if I can get an answer. All the more reason to get an integrated set - no OTA antenna hassle.

ss

[kny3twalker]

alot of the newer stand alone ATSC tuners can do QAM
might be something worth considering
if you do not care about HD discovery, HD HBO etc....

[TWinbrook46636]

Originally posted by DTV TiVo Dealer
LG will market only 2 CRT HDTV's, both are 30" 16x9 aspect ratio models. The second model will cost an additional $100. and be a slim design, availability is scheduled for August 2005.

Both models have built-in 5th generation advanced ATSC and clear QAM tuners.

-Robert

VE Advanced Digital Technology Dealer


Any word on resolution? The new Samsung SlimFit HDTV display only supports a maximum of 800 lines vertical. That's pretty bad. I'm hoping the LG is at least a little better.

[DTV TiVo Dealer]

LG has shipped the first 30" HD CRT it's native resolution is 1080i.

-Robert

VE Advanced Digital Technology Dealer

[subysouth]

Originally posted by TWinbrook46636
Any word on resolution? The new Samsung SlimFit HDTV display only supports a maximum of 800 lines vertical. That's pretty bad. I'm hoping the LG is at least a little better.

800 lines vertical?

Thats not a normal rate. If you found a spec such as that, it was likely 800 vertical lines of resolution or 800 horizontal res.

ss

[kny3twalker]

LG has shipped the first 30" HD CRT it's native resolution is 1080i.

all CRTs are 1080i native

[TWinbrook46636]

Originally posted by subysouth
If you found a spec such as that, it was likely 800 vertical lines of resolution or 800 horizontal res.

Yes, that should have read horizontal resolution.

From the Samsung spec sheet:

"Maximum of 800 Lines Horizontal Resolution"

Originally posted by kny3twalker
all CRTs are 1080i native

They support 1080i content but that doesn't mean they can display the full 1920x1080 resolution. Even Sony's top of the line 34XBR960 can only display about 1400 out of 1920.

[subysouth]

Originally posted by DTV TiVo Dealer
LG has shipped the first 30" HD CRT it's native resolution is 1080i.

-Robert


Yea I am kinda confused by this statement.

You mean they have shipped THEIR first 30" HD CRT? So I guess you are not including the Zenith TVs as an LG product?

Or are you saying they have shipped the first slim HD?

:confused:
ss

[DTV TiVo Dealer]

This is LG's first 30" CRT HDTV. But, what I could have said better is that this LG 30" CRT is one of it's new HDTV, which was shown at the CES show and has the 5th generation ATSC/NTSC/QAM tuners built-in.

-Robert

VE Advanced Digital Technology Dealer

[Artwood]

The 5th generation tuners are very important for people who complain about SD--they'll give you the best signal you can get.

[kny3twalker]

They support 1080i content but that doesn't mean they can display the full 1920x1080 resolution. Even Sony's top of the line 34XBR960 can only display about 1400 out of 1920.

not telling me nothing new

[drogulus]

I saw the Toshiba 30HF85 at Sears last weekend. It's really nice looking with the small case. PQ was good, as good as the Sony 32HS420 next to it, though the HD signal was one of those pixilated loops they show so it's hard to tell what the verdict would be with a good signal. Manuel said Made in Thailand, but we know that I guess.

[TWinbrook46636]

Originally posted by kny3twalker
not telling me nothing new

Double negative. Actually my reply should have quoted Robert instead. I'm just trying to find out how much this new LG set can actually display. Obviously not as much as a Sony XBR but I was hoping for a little more than the 800 lines the Samsung does. There doesn't seem to be any info available on this though. Overall it looks better than the Samsung and it does have QAM at least, something the Samsung lacks. No CableCARD on either though.

[kny3twalker]

thanks
not telling me anything new

LOL

[subysouth]

Originally posted by drogulus
I saw the Toshiba 30HF85 at Sears last weekend.

Sears sells the Toshiba direct view sets?

Theyre not listed on their website at this point.

ss

[drogulus]

Yeah, the set had just been put on the floor, there was no price tag, the guy had to look it up for me ($799). You know, after all the trouble with the Orion sourced HF84s, I'd be interested to see if they managed to get the bugs out on the new ones. Someone ought to give one of these a real workout. It really is a good looking set, and with HDMI, 540p, good stretch mode, 720p input, this could be the best non-SFP choice out there. All that's just speculation, of course, until somebody picks one up.