Help with DVD Recorder Purchase

[melson]

Howdy All,

I am looking at purchasing either a Sony RDR-HX900 or a Pioneer DVR520H. Anyone own either of these or have any thoughts good or bad about either one. I will be using it to record from TV and then edit the commercials out and then move to DVD. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Mark

[martins]

I would get the Pioneer. I've had problems with Sony DVD players.

[jemaerca]

After a lot of research and two returned recorders, I chose the Pioneer 520H. It has nice editing capabilites, firewire in AND out, DVD to HDD recording (although I've not gotten a +R disk to work).

I believe that with the Sony, you cannot divide titles so that may be a deal breaker for some. It also seems to have a clunkier user interface. It has a bigger hard drive and an IR blaster though.

Good luck.

[melson]

Originally posted by jemaerca
After a lot of research and two returned recorders, I chose the Pioneer 520H. It has nice editing capabilites, firewire in AND out, DVD to HDD recording (although I've not gotten a +R disk to work).

I believe that with the Sony, you cannot divide titles so that may be a deal breaker for some. It also seems to have a clunkier user interface. It has a bigger hard drive and an IR blaster though.

Good luck.

Jemaerca,

Thanks for the input....I have one question for you...does the pioneer have flex reording where it will t ake a 2hr 5min movie and condense it down to 2 hour mode instead of 3 hr mode?

Thanks,
Mark

[jemaerca]

Originally posted by melson
Jemaerca,

Thanks for the input....I have one question for you...does the pioneer have flex reording where it will t ake a 2hr 5min movie and condense it down to 2 hour mode instead of 3 hr mode?

Thanks,
Mark
Yes. Pioneer calls it "Optimized recording." In Optimized recording, the recording quality is automatically adjusted so that the Copy List fits on to the space available on the disc. Note that copying is carried out in realtime.

Another function that I like about the 520H is the 32 levels of manual recording quality that you have at your disposal. And, there is a function that you can actually view what you are currently watching at the different levels of manual recording quality so you know what you're getting before you waste a disc.

[EPlay]

I find it easiest to record in the best manual recording quality to the hard drive, taking into account how long the program will be AFTER the removal of commercials. For example, if I know I'm going to burn 2 hour-long programs minus commercials (which will be about 1-1/2 hours) onto a DVD, I'll record the shows in the best quality to fit 1-1/2 hours on a DVD. That way, after you edit the commercials, you can do a high-speed burn to the DVD without any quality loss, instead of adjusting the rate then and necessitating a real-time burn with quality loss.

[Jay Davis]

The gist of the comments on the Sony thread point to a unit having excellent or better picture quality on both recording and play back. But if you need flexible recording to fit a 2 hour 10 minute video on a DVD it can only go down to 3 hour quality mode. And yes, it really can't break up a long recording.

The Sony unit IMHO is a disappointment given the fact that they are at least a year behind everyone else in coming out with a HDD unit. They had plenty of time to read the comments in this chat room as well as from other sites to see what people were complaining about and what features they were looking for in a recorder.

[Codeman00]

I just bought a Pioneer DVR-520H a few weeks ago and it works great recording and making DVDs from recorded TV, Satellite, VHS, and Hi-8 Camcorder Tapes. The optimimed recording (talked about above) really makes this DVR / DVD recorder really neat. Also, the editing features are easy to use and very smooth.

I would recommend it !!

[melson]

I just purchased the 520 last week and so far I love it....Thanks to everyone for all your input.

Mark

[MikeParticles]

I have also been considering these two models (Pioneer 520 vs Sony HX900) and I am leaning towards the Sony for these reasons:

1) Sony HX900 picture quality is consistently reported to be great.
2) The Sony has a free electronic program guide (TV Guide), but it usually only works with analog cable systems. But that is how I will use it.
3) The Sony has a bigger hard drive.
4) The Sony supports DVD+RW, which is my preference over DVD-RW.

I am aware of the lack of title divide and flex time recording on the Sony, but I do not think I will encounter a problem the way I intend to use it.

- Mike

[markwill]

Originally posted by MikeParticles
I have also been considering these two models (Pioneer 520 vs Sony HX900) and I am leaning towards the Sony for these reasons:

1) Sony HX900 picture quality is consistently reported to be great.
2) The Sony has a free electronic program guide (TV Guide), but it usually only works with analog cable systems. But that is how I will use it.
3) The Sony has a bigger hard drive.
4) The Sony supports DVD+RW, which is my preference over DVD-RW.

I am aware of the lack of title divide and flex time recording on the Sony, but I do not think I will encounter a problem the way I intend to use it.

- Mike
I am one of those sad individuals who - having tried a Sony RDR-GX7 and decided I needed a hard disk - waited for a year for Sony to release a hard disk model. Bad move - I am very disappointed in what they came up with given the time available (beyond those competitors who had hard disk models available for years), particularly in regards to the lack of a divide feature.

The picture quality was indeed a significant reason why I wanted to wait - the GX7 was truly excellent and I suspect that the HX900 is at least as good. I can certainly understand that. However, I ended up with a 520 (for many of the same reason descibed in this thread) and I am very happy with its picture quality. The tremendous flexibility on has with regards to choosing a recording quality is a significant benefit for me too. I especially like the ability to preview the quality onscreen at various levels before I decide to burn the DVD. Nice!

I have a DirecTivo so don't really need a large hard disk (I use the DVD Recorders hard disk purely for editing/archiving) - although I absolutely do need a hard disk DVD Recorder because the editing process is dramatically easier/quicker. However, I do see a bit of a trend here (to be quite honest) whereby people view a hard disk size in the same way as megapixels on a digital camera ie. bigger = better. I have 80Gb to play with and, while that is smaller than some other units, I have not come remotely close to maxing out on that, no doubt because of my Tivo and it's own recording capability (not that I have a "small" Tivo at just 40 hours but, again, it's MORE than enough for me). Personally, the size of the hard disk is a very small factor for me, as compared to the editing and recording features.

By the way, I hated the title editing (naming) capabilities on the GX7 with a passion!!! I don't know of the HX900 improves things but the UI on the 520 is REALLY nice (given the limitations of using a remote) - a good, intelligent interface. I have burned perhaps 20-25 DVD's over the holidays and I really quite enjoyed the process :-) That is very far from my thoughts about the GX7!!

I can't speak to the EPG because I use Tivo and didn't need one on the recorder.

Finally, my own belief (and others differ so it doesn't really mean much) is that DVD-R is more compatible- by a whisker. However, if you need DVD+R then the 520 isn't an option for you. I'd just question whether it's REALLY important.

Anyway, my own thoughts....

Mark

[RonDawg]

Originally posted by MikeParticles
I have also been considering these two models (Pioneer 520 vs Sony HX900) and I am leaning towards the Sony for these reasons:

1) Sony HX900 picture quality is consistently reported to be great.
2) The Sony has a free electronic program guide (TV Guide), but it usually only works with analog cable systems. But that is how I will use it.
3) The Sony has a bigger hard drive.
4) The Sony supports DVD+RW, which is my preference over DVD-RW.

I am aware of the lack of title divide and flex time recording on the Sony, but I do not think I will encounter a problem the way I intend to use it.


1. The Sony's picture quality is great...so much so I'm going to use it as my primary DVD player, rather than my Sony 675 5 disc CD/DVD changer.

2. The EPG is...OK. The problem is that even if downloaded, it's not very detailed. It'll tell you what show is on at a certain hour, but won't give you any episode details. I end up either looking it up on the internet, or using the program guide off my cable box.

3. You can never have too large a HDD (and already there are threads asking if there is a way to upgrade this!).

4. I actually find a use for both +RW and -RW. If I simply want to record something temporarily to play on another player (i.e. at work during my lunch break), I use +RW as it doesn't require finalization to work in other players, and it's easy to delete files. If I want to do some fancy editing like dividing and joining titles, I use -RW (VR) which is the only way to do it on the Sony's.

BTW, even though it will record onto both -R and +R, it's better to use -R. The reason is that when recording onto +R, if there is any available space left on the disc (and there almost always is when you edit unwanted material out), the finalized disc menu will show "Empty Space" as a title choice. You won't see it on the HX900, but if you insert the disc into any other player (including Sony) it will appear. It doesn't affect the quality of the recording nor its playability, but if you're a perfectionist (like me) it can be annoying.

Another advantage of the Sony over the Pioneer are the component inputs.

Now for the disadvantages of the Sony:

1. As often mentioned, the editing features are limited. From the HDD, the only available editing feature is the A-B erase. If you wish to divide titles, or combine titles, you must first dub the title onto -RW(VR), make a playlist with your editing choices, then dub the final playlist back to HDD. While not as straightforward as other HDD-DVD recorders, the final edits are easy to make and transition cleanly on other players.

I don't find the editing features to be particularly difficult to use; for A-B erase, it's actually very easy as it plays the program, you hit "select" for your "A" point then select again for your "B" point. If you make a mistake, you have a choice of cancelling, or selecting a new A or B point. Playlists off -RW(VR) is even better, as it gives you a chance to preview what scenes you selected before the edit points are made.

Naming of titles is a bit clunky, but not terribly difficult to figure out. I do wish there was a key on the remote to change from capital to lower case case letters, as it would considerably reduce the "clunkiness" of title naming.

2. Also often mentioned is the lack of flex-record. However, if you have titles that, because of their original recording quality, will be too big to fit onto one disc, you can hit "Auto Mode" and it will automatically reduce the title's PQ to fit onto the disc. It's not as nice as "Flex Record" but the PQ is acceptable to at least the 3 hour level when recording off analog cable. HSP (90 min/disc) is perfect for me as most of the 1 hour programs I record end up to be 45 min by the time I edit out the commercials.

3. Some people feel the Sony's interface is "first generation" and "clunky." I highly disagree; I feel it's the prettiest of any DVD recorder out there. While the Sony's finalized menu's aren't capable of including thumbnails (though oddly enough, you can pull up the thumbnails by pressing the "zoom+" button from the menu screen of the HX900), I'd rather have the Sony's pretty text-only menus than an ugly one with thumbnails. Plus it saves me the hassle of having to choose a thumbnail.

4. If you have existing +R discs that you want to edit further, the Pioneer won't let you dub them to HDD at all; the Sony (usually) will.

These differences aside, you can't go wrong with either machine.

[dsmith901]

If you can hold off until May I would seriously consider the new Panasonic recorders.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=491868

[markwill]

Originally posted by dsmith901
If you can hold off until May I would seriously consider the new Panasonic recorders.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=491868
There's always a reason to wait :-) I waited a year for the Sony. I wish I hadn't...

After May there will be another batch. And another, etc, etc.

Mark

[MikeParticles]

Originally posted by markwill
There's always a reason to wait :-) I waited a year for the Sony. I wish I hadn't...

After May there will be another batch. And another, etc, etc.

Mark

I agree. Something better is always on the horizon, but I feel like I have waited long enough for this technology to mature and I am ready to jump in.

Mark and Ron, thank you for all of the helpful information. :) I do not already own a DVR, so the EPG and larger hard drive are key features for me. If the Pioneer 520 had an EPG, I would probably choose it over the Sony.

My preference for DVD+RW is weak: I like it only because I have already tested playback of DVD+RW on the DVD players that I own, and DVD-RW is an unknown.

My biggest concern about the Pioneer is that previous models, like the 510, did not receive very good reviews with regards to picture quality. Yet the recent comparison done by PC World stated that the 520H had the best picture of all 6 models tested. Did Pioneer make improvements in picture quality between the 510 and the 520? If so, does anyone know what they did?

- Mike

[markwill]

Originally posted by MikeParticles
Mark and Ron, thank you for all of the helpful information. :) I do not already own a DVR, so the EPG and larger hard drive are key features for me. If the Pioneer 520 had an EPG, I would probably choose it over the Sony.

...

My biggest concern about the Pioneer is that previous models, like the 510, did not receive very good reviews with regards to picture quality. Yet the recent comparison done by PC World stated that the 520H had the best picture of all 6 models tested. Did Pioneer make improvements in picture quality between the 510 and the 520? If so, does anyone know what they did? - Mike
Just to ask the question, have you considered a DVR? If you go with the 520 you'll save a decent amount over the Sony and that might be used to get a DVR. Personally, I think the two are very complimentary and would allow more flexibility in your choice of recorder. Not sure how open you are to the solution but DirectTV are almost giving away DVRs these days (< $100). Might be worth considering...

The picture thing is highly subjective, IMHO. Yes, I am sure there are some scientific standards through which this can be measured by I am very happy with what I have on my 520 and can't tell the difference with watching DirectTV "direct".

Mark

[N.B. Forrest]

An easy to use EPG is an important feature for me. I have a Hughes E25 system (E2 receiver, #5 remote). Since the 520 does not have an EPG, does anyone know if my remote will control it should I choose to buy the 520?

[MikeParticles]

Originally posted by markwill
Just to ask the question, have you considered a DVR? If you go with the 520 you'll save a decent amount over the Sony and that might be used to get a DVR.
...
Mark

I like my plain old standard cable service because I am not interested in any premium programming, and it makes it easy to put a television in any room and not have to worry about an additional receiver.

There is about a $100 price difference between the two models, but I suspect that the monthly subscription to DirectTV, digital cable, or TiVo (compared to my monthly basic cablel), would quickly eat up this difference. I could be wrong.

- Mike

[MikeParticles]

Interesting. The Pioneer DVR-633H introduced today has a 160 GB hard drive and the TV Guide EPG, and a list price of $599. Now we're talking!! :D

... but I would have to wait until April. Hmmmmmm.

(I cannot post the URL due to spammer protection, but the link is in a nearby thread).

- Mike

[boconnor55]

[QUOTE=RonDawg]1. The Sony's picture quality is great...so much so I'm going to use it as my primary DVD player, rather than my Sony 675 5 disc CD/DVD changer.
[/QUOTE]
I have been using my GX-7 as my primary DVD Player for a year now as my Denon would often choke on DVD-R/+R/-RW/+RW's made both by the GX-7 and my Mac G4 PowerBook's SuperDrive (Pioneer)...
The PQ is truly outstanding thru my Hitachi Plasma, but the "LAYER CHANGE" is slow at about 1 full second... :mad:

[Rammitinski]

[QUOTE=MikeParticles]I like my plain old standard cable service because I am not interested in any premium programming, and it makes it easy to put a television in any room and not have to worry about an additional receiver.

There is about a $100 price difference between the two models, but I suspect that the monthly subscription to DirectTV, digital cable, or TiVo (compared to my monthly basic cablel), would quickly eat up this difference. I could be wrong.

- Mike[/QUOTE] Even though I love my Panasonic E85H, there are times when I wished I had the 520H, because I got fed up with the cable price raises and now have Dish. So now the TVGOS EPG guide is useless and I have to set each unit's timer manually to record. At least with the 520H, it has that feature where it will automatically start to record when it detects an incoming signal (their newer models have eliminated this feature). It probably would have made recording off of satellite somewhat less of a hassle.

[RonDawg]

[QUOTE=boconnor55]I have been using my GX-7 as my primary DVD Player for a year now[/QUOTE]

Actually, I've changed my tune since I wrote that post. I now prefer to use a dedicated DVD changer (currently a Sony NC80V) for my DVD playback needs, rather than my Sony HX900.

The reason I originally preferred using the HX900 over the NC675 for playback was because (I later discovered) the 675 had an inferior DAC: 10 bit/54 MHz vs. the 12 bit/108 MHz of the HX900.

When the NC80V came out, I noticed that it also had a 12 bit/108 MHz DAC. I bought an Open Box unit from Best Buy (even though the unit had just been introduced) for considerably less than the price of a brand new, sealed-box unit. I took it home, hooked it up, and realized its playback was just as good as the HX900.

In addition to the 5 disc capacity, the changer has better slo-mo and fast forwarding features than the HX900.

[boconnor55]

[QUOTE=RonDawg]Actually, I've changed my tune since I wrote that post. I now prefer to use a dedicated DVD changer (currently a Sony NC80V) for my DVD playback needs, rather than my Sony HX900.

The reason I originally preferred using the HX900 over the NC675 for playback was because (I later discovered) the 675 had an inferior DAC: 10 bit/54 MHz vs. the 12 bit/108 MHz of the HX900.

When the NC80V came out, I noticed that it also had a 12 bit/108 MHz DAC. I bought an Open Box unit from Best Buy (even though the unit had just been introduced) for considerably less than the price of a brand new, sealed-box unit. I took it home, hooked it up, and realized its playback was just as good as the HX900.

In addition to the 5 disc capacity, the changer has better slo-mo and fast forwarding features than the HX900.[/QUOTE]
I have limited room in my A/V cabinet and with my Sony SVR-3000 DVR, Onkyo Receiver, GX-7 and the SA3250HD, I'm out of space. The GX-7 works extremely well for me for DVD Playback.