On SDI Jack is HDCP Outputed like a DVI Jack??

[RockTV]

I am interested in a scaler and new DVD player. I downloaded the DVDO manual and I did not see this mentioned. Just wondering if using a SDI Modded/Equipped DVD player to a DVDO HD or HD+, if HDCP would be encoded and sent via the SDI jack. If it's not I think I can improve my PQ by getting a SDI'd DVD player, inputting it into a HD/HD+, then outputting via the DVI jack into my PJ's DVI jack at it's native resolution. I only ask because my PJ is not HDCP compliant. Right now I am using a Bravo D1 via DVI sent at my PJ's native resolution. Picture is really really good, but I can't help but wonder if I can get it any better. PJ is a Yamaha DPX-1. Thanks for any replies in advance.

[Greg Stitt]

SDI is HDCP free. The signal is captured from the MPEG decoder output before HDCP is applied.

[RockTV]

Sweet...Thanks GS, now are there any DVD player's reasonably price that have SDI or do all need a mod in fashion.

[Greg Stitt]

I'm not aware of any player that come with an SDI output from the original manufacturer. You can buy new players with the SDI modification already performed by companies such as JVB Digital:

http://www.jvbdigital.com/

If you're handy with a soldering iron, you can buy a kit and do it yourself:

http://www.pixelmagicsystems.com/products/sdi/bt656pro.htm

Hope this helps.

[Krobar]

Theta and Ayre make players that are prefitted with SDI but I wouldnt consider them a money saving option :)

[HooStat]

The SDI option runs ~$400, so you can just add that to the cost of a modifiable DVD player to figure it out. I had mine done by MSB, but a number of other places will do it for you. Sometimes you can find one used, but not easily.

[bokes]

I just ordered a Denon3910 w/SDi to go into a iscan HD+.
Question- Does the SDI output 480i? And will it disallow the use of any of the players internal picture controls?
Thanks

[Axatax]

Question- Does the SDI output 480i?

Yes

And will it disallow the use of any of the players internal picture controls?

This all depends on how the SDI mod was performed.

[RockTV]

Thanks for all the replys. One other question if you don't mind. I just searched the DVD forum trying to find comparisons of SDI vs DVI outputs. Both are digital is there any difference in PQ?? Thanks again.

[EC]

Originally posted by RockTV
Thanks for all the replys. One other question if you don't mind. I just searched the DVD forum trying to find comparisons of SDI vs DVI outputs. Both are digital is there any difference in PQ?? Thanks again.

Depends .... just on paper ..... what do you think will do a better job of grabbing the 480i signal directly off the MPEG decoder, deinterlacing and scaling it?

The electronics in an DVD player or that of a dedicated outboard scaler which is designed specifically with that as its primary function?

There are other factors such as the projector used - the better the PJ and its setup / calibration, the better unit (SDI capable scaler IMHO) will become more evident.

You can also add the Bel Canto Player as another player that is available with SDI but as Krobar mentions these guys are not cheap.

[AndreYew]

DVI can't be compared to SDI directly because of two issues:

1. DVI outputs RGB instead of component like SDI. Native DVD encoding is component, so DVI will require additional processing which may degrade the video PQ.

2. DVI on DVD players generally outputs 480p, so you wouldn't be using an external video processor's deinterlacer, but instead you'd be using whatever's built into the DVD player.

--Andre

[RockTV]

Thanks, now I see why all the fuss over SDI on a DVD player. It would be optimum to output the DVD in SDI to a scaler that had a SDI input and output at the Native Resolution of a PJ, TV, or Plasma, etc. Should be a pretty outstanding picture I would hope.

[Steve Richards]

Originally posted by AndreYew
DVI can't be compared to SDI directly because of two issues:

1. DVI outputs RGB instead of component like SDI. Native DVD encoding is component, so DVI will require additional processing which may degrade the video PQ.

2. DVI on DVD players generally outputs 480p, so you wouldn't be using an external video processor's deinterlacer, but instead you'd be using whatever's built into the DVD player.

--Andre

I don't know of any DVI player that outputs 480i (it is not part of the DVI spec AFAIK).

There are a couple of player (PIO 59AVI for one) that put out 480i over HDMI, which would make an interesting comparison.

HDMI can be either RGB or component so you should be able to get a valid comparison.

I think a few people are considering that HDMI at 480i is probably going to be as good as SDI and probably more cost effective.

I haven't read where anyone has directly compared the two though.

[RockTV]

Interesting. My whole point of bringing all this up stems from my PJ not being HDCP compliant. (Yamaha DPX-1) I am extremely pleased with the picture using a DVI connection on a Bravo D1. Of course this DVD player has it's quirks but does not output HDCP via the DVI connection making it a big seller in my book. I had tried 2 other DVD players with DVI outs but could not use them due to the HDCP, just got snow for a picture. I always wonder what I could be doing better, not to mention being able to use the equipment (DVD, Scaler) with any future upgrades to the PJ. I know that D1 will eventually crap out or have a reliability issue (seems like everyone has) If I go the SDI modded DVD player into say a DVDO ISCAN HD+ with SDI, I can scale and output via DVI into my Yamaha without worrying about HDCP taking me out. I also would be future proofed because my next PJ will be HDCP compliant. I appreciate everyones comments and suggestions, it really helped my decision making on what to do, especially when SDI was concerned. Thanks again,

Steve

[AndreYew]

Good point about HDCP. HDCP licensing mandates that if digital content is encrypted, it cannot be output as analog video (RGB or component). SDI output is unprotected, and the scaler may output it in any form it wishes, whereas DVI and HDMI may not let you have an analog output. I think this point may be more important for CRT projector users.

--Andre

[obie_fl]

As a CRT and SDI user I've also wondered about going to an HDMI player via a scaler. My question is HDCP still required with a 480i HDMI signal? For instance does the Pioneer 59AVI require HDCP to use the 480i HDMI output? Are there any DVD players that output 480i over HDMI w/o HDCP?

[Tom.W]

Hi guys,There seems to be some confusion here about what DVI,HDCP and HDMI means.Go here http://www.sigmadesigns.com/support/DVI_HDMI.htm

[obie_fl]

Tom - With the exception of the question posed in the first post I don't see any confusion unless I'm missing something. In the limited experience I've had with my scaler (HDLeeza) and DVI cable box (Pace) I have found that I can't use the HDCP DVI output because the unit will never pass the HDCP authorization even for non-HD content due to the fact I'm outputting analog. This is why I was wondering if I could even use a DVD HDMI connection at 480i. In other words is HDCP authorization needed for 480i over HDMI?

[Steve Richards]

Originally posted by obie_fl
This is why I was wondering if I could even use a DVD HDMI connection at 480i. In other words is HDCP authorization needed for 480i over HDMI?

My take is that if you have HDCP it is going to want to handshake with an HDCP at the other end and if there is no handshake then there is no digital output.

It don't think the issue is that the signal is 480i, I think the issue is that it is a digital signal regardless of format, so no HDCP handshake - no digital output.

The place where manufacturers got it wrong was prohibiting analog output when an HDMI device is connected, they sort of skipped the whole flag issue and arbitrarily just shut off the analog even when the copy flag is off - but thats an issue for another thread.

[Tom.W]

If you are just trying to use the DVI output on your Pace cable box you could just get a Dtronics DVI>VGA converter which is HDMI compliant and run VGA to a second input on your projector if you have one.HDCP flags should not turn off the 480i output on your cable box just any resolution higher such as 720p or 1080i over DVI
Sorry I do not own an Hd-Leeza or a Pace cable box.

[obie_fl]

Thanks for the info Tom. I suspect the cable company may just have HDCP always on, but I will play around with it some more. I'm not all that concerned about the cable box (it has component out) as I'm more interested in possibly using a HDMI DVD player vice my SDI player. Hence the question whether the players output digital 480i without HDCP.

[Joe Murphy Jr]

For outputs:

HDMI = HDCP "always on"

DVI-HDCP = possible no HDCP for non-copy protected material (it will depend on how the manufacturer implements HDCP, as some do "always on" and some do "on" only for copy protected material)

DVI = HDCP "always off"


Ayre's DVD players can do 480i YCbCr (equal to SDI) via the DVI output. And no, this is not a misprint.

[obie_fl]

So assuming option 1: HDMI = HDCP "always on". I guess that means I'd never be able to use an HDMI DVD player at 480i through the HDLeeza to the RGBHV CRT PJ. I guess I'm stuck with SDI.

[AndreYew]

Originally posted by Joe Murphy Jr

Ayre's DVD players can do 480i YCbCr (equal to SDI) via the DVI output. And no, this is not a misprint.

Wow. Who can accept such a signal on DVI? I guess there's really nothing preventing someone from taking over a physical connector for their own purposes, as long as they don't claim some standard for that connector.

--Andre

[Joe Murphy Jr]

Lumagen and DVDO either have implemented the firmware upgrade to accept YCbCr via their DVI inputs or are almost there. Since they don't currently have HDMI connections, this is the next best thing for them at this time. Besides, both of these video processors operate in the YCbCr digital domain and any signal -- digital or analog -- that gets sent to them must be converted to this format (unless it is already in that format) before any processing is done.

Don't consider it a "DVI" signal: consider it a YCbCr signal on a DVI connector. Using a DVI-to-HDMI cable, you can send this 480i YCbCr signal to an HDMI input. Is this no different than sending YCbCr via an HDMI output to an HDMI input? Of course not.

Last I heard, Charles Hansen was working on a scaling feature for the Ayre DVD players.

[Steve Richards]

Originally posted by obie_fl
So assuming option 1: HDMI = HDCP "always on". I guess that means I'd never be able to use an HDMI DVD player at 480i through the HDLeeza to the RGBHV CRT PJ. I guess I'm stuck with SDI.

Here is a thread that discusses HDCP and HDLEEZA

[URL=http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=237436&highlight=HDLEEZA][/URL]