CES: Algolith news

[Murat]

I wasn't able to see much at the first day, but Algolith was one of the ones I was able to visit. I had a chance to talk to Mr. Algolith from AVS forum, nice and friendly guy. We talked about the SDI issue for the up coming Dragonfly, functioning but still as a prototype, he said they might be planning an outboard SDI to HDMI converter to solve our problems. Also another good news is that they are considering integrating Mosquito with Dragonfly. :)

BTW that Mosquito rocks... it makes wonders on SD & HD broadcasts and DVD. So you really have to check it out.

I'll try to post more if I can...

[whsbuss]

Do you think the Mosquito does a better job than the iScan HD+

[muniman]

whsbuss,

for best results pair the iscan and the mosquito together, it's an awesome combo.

[lostchild]

can't wait to see the dragonfly in action. I am ready for my next AV investment and I really want to see if the Realta chip lives up to the hype. Still undecided between upgrading my denon DVD 5900 to the new 5910 and getting the upcoming Dragonfly.
I have a Mosquito and I agree with Murat: it rocks, especially with poorly produced DVDs.
I must say for now the lack of DVI or SDI in the unit doesn't bother me (improvements introduced by the Mosquito most of the time exceed those introduced by DVI) but if I'd buy a video processor like the Dragonfly I would like the option of having an all digital path. It would be a shame to invest so much money on the Mosquito+Dragonfly combo and not be able to go all digital.
So if they really integrate the Mosquito in a SDI or HDMI Dragonfly unit I hope they will opt for some kind of trade-in for Mosquito's early adopters or some kind of SDI or HDMI upgrade to the existing Mosquito.

Luca

[cbojsa]

Whats bothersome, is this company has reduced the pricing on the Mosquitoe product 3 times in the past year. Technology is moving so fast
investing in a piece of equipment today is practically worthless 6 months form now.Algolith realizes to sell a $5,000 scaler you must integrate
their technology along with Realta/Terranex. It doesn't seem
they know which way to go. I guarantee you within a year their
new equipment will sell for $1500. Just like plasma screens
the market is not at extreme levels it is at an affordable level
for the mass market consumer. So if you want the best now as always
you have to pay top dollar, understanding the value will probably
be half within 6 months.
Just my observation of the posts I have been reading on Algolith

Jeffrey

[anthonymoody]

Face it guys...it won't be long until this stuff is in $200 DVD players :)

TM

[AVWERKS]

That new Dragonfly with the HQV chip should be around 3500$ form what I was told

That should be a killer along with their noise reduction (great demo!)

David

[TetsujinWave]

I can confirm that--it's what I was told at the Innovations area, where they had a Dragonfly and a Mosquito for demonstration.

[wjchan]

Any ETA on the Dragonfly?

[RU Geekman]

I read previously that it would be out sometime in the spring, April or thereabouts if I recall correctly.

[cbojsa]

Dragonfly will be released in June. It will have 60% of the
Mosquito algorythms used in the present Mosquito.
Cost will be $3500.00
Jeffrey

[Murat]

Originally posted by cbojsa
Dragonfly will be released in June. It will have 60% of the
Mosquito algorythms used in the present Mosquito.
Cost will be $3500.00
Jeffrey


Jeffrey,

You sound very certain, how do you know???

[cbojsa]

I had a long conversation with the sales director at Algolith no more than two days ago.

[darinp2]

Originally posted by cbojsa
Dragonfly will be released in June. It will have 60% of the
Mosquito algorythms used in the present Mosquito.
Cost will be $3500.00

I believe that the noise reduction will also only be for SD inputs on this unit and so if people want it for HD they will also need a Mosquito (the present one or a future one).

--Darin

[oferlaor]

June or slightly later seems realistic.

The MNR in Dragonfly will not be as strong as in the mosquito. It works on both (I spent a considerable amount of time in both the Algolith and SO demos). The dragonfly will only do MNR on SD sources, and it will only be around 60% of the processing that the mosquito does (it does it very well on SD and HD).

The mosquito did a fantastic job in reducing strong MPEG artifacts, IMO.

It looks like there's still a lot of work to be done on the dragon fly, but most everything is already in there. Looks like the primary tasks are making it stable and tweaking the algorithms.

[Mark_H]

Originally posted by oferlaor
The mosquito did a fantastic job in reducing strong MPEG artifacts, IMO.


At what cost, if any, to real image detail?

Mark

[bokes]

Is there any way to upgrade the mosquito with an SDI in/out?
I would like to pair it with my Denon SDI 3910 and SDI DVDO HD+.
or;
how would picture quality compare if I used the mosquito with it's YBR over the SDI's?

[mark haflich]

QQQ did an A/B, he is the only one, you will have to PM him to get the PQ differential results, he won't post them until he is good and ready. :) :) :)

Of course he only modified the Algolith for 480i sdi not 1080i hd sdi.

[rogo]

I, for one, find SD mosquito noise to be an order of magnitude more annoying than what's on HD. So I'd consider the Dragonfly compromise to be more than enough for my needs.

[mark haflich]

So now we know your standard Rogo! For you, 60% is good enough! Hell Ted Williams settled for a little over 40%. :)

[Art Sonneborn]

Originally posted by Mark_H
At what cost, if any, to real image detail?

Mark

Very good question !

Art

[oferlaor]

Mark_H,

From the demos I've seen (obviously, this might be different given my own testing), I couldn't see much detail lost. The Mosquito looked like it only smeared areas that should have been smeared in the first place and removes noise only where noise already existed.

Michel demonstrated using sources that had strong artifacts in them, that were not removed altogether, but just removed enough so you could see that it was doing a good job. Actual sources would not have as much compression artifacts, so the output should work well.

One of the demos included a scene from a very very grainy (noisy) woody allen movie. You could see that it removed some of the grain in the background, but it really didn't interfere with any picture detail and the grain was still there, but grain that had blockiness to it and mosquito noise was virtually eliminated.

I could see the benefit even with the HD demo, specifically with macroblocks. Overall, it was an incredibly effective demo.

[1920x1080]

What impresses me the most about the Mosquito is how selective it is when it is adjusted properly. It seems to limit its effect to just where it's needed--the better the source, the less it seems to do. Clearly evident with the "Map Detection Regions" function turned on.

[lostchild]

I totally agree with the posts above. but I'd have to stress the "when adjusted properly" part. at the beginning I had to change the settings for each different dvd but after getting used to the Mosquito I am now using a set of settings for very poor dvds and another for good dvds. this usually works fine, but if not adjusted properly it's very easy to introduce artifacts to the image. you will find the "processor on/off" button on the remote very helpful when trying to find the ideal adjustments.
I also found out that my Denon 5900 player was already removing a lot of noise from the source and that very often the optimal settings on my mosquito were in the low region (0-4) rather than in the high numbers. Psychologically it's a bit frustrating to find out that you only have to set a noise reduction value to 1 otherwise it introduces artifacts, but it does work and does an AMAZING job cleaning poor dvds (the difference it makes in good quality dvds is marginal and barely noticeable. it's mainly poorly transferred and grainy dvds that will make you go wow)
One setting that I always have to set to 0 is the block artifacts removal, because any level above 0 would introduce artifacts instead of removing them. That's for DVDs. Didn't try it with HD material.
The "3D" is also a very sensitive setting: it's very very easy to introduce artifacts instead of removing them, and I tend to keep its value on the low numbers too (1 to 3).
The Mosquito is definitely not a unit you just turn on and forget about. it's not like calibrating a projector: you really have to change settings every time you play a different DVD.
but if this seems complicated at the beginning, you learn how to tame it in the long term. you learn little by little how the different noise reducers work and how to get the best out of them. and if you will spend 15 minutes trying to find the ideal settings the first time you watch a dvd, you will only spend a minute or so after a few weeks.
I am still not sure I got to the point where I can say I master it completely but I am getting there. :)

[cbojsa]

Quick Question to all that own a Mosquitoe.
I am going to be using the Mosquitoe with a CRT.
I am running a DVD ,Standard TV & Altinex Transcoder
for High Def through a Extron Switcher. Where does the
Mosquitoe fit in the chain & What connections run to the CRT
Thank You
Jeffrey

[1920x1080]

Originally posted by cbojsa
Quick Question to all that own a Mosquitoe.
I am going to be using the Mosquitoe with a CRT.
I am running a DVD ,Standard TV & Altinex Transcoder
for High Def through a Extron Switcher. Where does the
Mosquitoe fit in the chain & What connections run to the CRT
Thank You
Jeffrey
The current unit comes equipped with two component inputs and one component output (a unit with HDMI I/O was apparently shown at CES). The recommendation is to place it in the chain prior to where any scaling takes place.

[mburnstein]

I don't understand why there is no S-video connection!!

[oferlaor]

mark,

I agree, it's an obvious shortage of inputs on this unit.

[Morg111]

Dragonfly and Mosquito in one unit with SDI, DVI,and S-video inputs (DVI output) aLong with scaling for both HD and SD sources for around 3-4k and I buy it preorder style!

Morg

[DanHouck]

Yep, but more than one DVI input. Three would be ideal plus at least one component and one s video. Forgeddabout composite already. :)

Dan

Oh yes, and don't forget the HQV processing!

[Carled]

Originally posted by DanHouck
Forgeddabout composite already. :)
I'll need one of those for the Playstation and the Laserdisc player...

[JimP]

lostchild

It sounds like from your post that the advantage of the "Mosquito" is in cleaning up poorly authored DVDs.

If one has a 5900 and mostly plays blockbuster type of DVDs, would you say that there's any need for the Mosquito?

[wjchan]

I've been surprised by how poorly transferred some of the blockbuster-type DVDs are.

[lostchild]

JimP:
I agre with wjchan:
I have a 5900 player and there's all kind of movies in my dvd collection and I'd say that the mosquito improves most of them, marginally or very noticeably. if you only had Superbit titles I would say, save your money. and there are indeed other really excellent transfers out there that don't really show a huge improvement when you use the mosquito. but there are lots of really poor transfers too, and average transfers. in those cases the mosquito really helps.
when i got my unit, I played some dvds I thought were good quality and I was surprised to see how much noise the unit was removing.

[tjg]

I installed my Mosquito last night and I'm amazed how much it cleans up SD broadcasts from a DirecTV HR 10-250 DVR (outputting 720p). It makes SD actually watchable. Very impressive product!

Tom

[mburnstein]

So you are using the DirecTv as a scaler for SD programs watching the 720p ouput into the Mosquito? Mosquito goes into the display at 720p?

[tjg]

Yes, that's the current set up.

Tom

[mburnstein]

Then you haven't seen how it cleans up SD at 480i? Unless you have a way to get S-video converted into 480i component or you have a DSS box that does 480i component, SD TV/Cable/DSS sources are really being cleaned up after scaling by your source STB. Maybe the Algolith would be more effective before the SD sources were scaled?

[tjg]

I've only had a couple of hours to play with it. The HR 10-250 supposedly outputs 480i component. Frankly, it would have to make a huge difference for me to switch to 480i for SD and switch back to 720p for HD. I'll give it a try after I swap out my NRS with a HD+ this weekend.

Tom

[ianken]

Originally posted by mburnstein
Then you haven't seen how it cleans up SD at 480i? Unless you have a way to get S-video converted into 480i component or you have a DSS box that does 480i component, SD TV/Cable/DSS sources are really being cleaned up after scaling by your source STB. Maybe the Algolith would be more effective before the SD sources were scaled?

It would be. You want to process the video in as close to it's native format as possilbe, IMHO. The scaler in most STBs is pretty weak. Actually, for SD stuff I would say let the mosquito do it's thing on 480i and then send 480i to your display, chances are the display has a better scaler in it than the directv set top box.

[lostchild]

with the new denon 5910 coming out I am considering to buy it to replace my 5900. it's supposed to have amazing deinterlacing (Realta chip) and scaling (DVDO) capabilities . do you think that having the 5910 dvd player output a 720P signal to the mosquito and then to my projector (720 lines native) would be a good solution in this case, even if the scaling takes place before the mosquito processing? any other way would not take advantage of all the powerful procesing in the dvd player.

[ninja.rogue]

no "regular" dvd player will output a 720p signal through component, except a few ones.

[mark haflich]

The Denon won't. Denon says it can't because of licensing issues.

[rogo]

It can't and still be approved by the DVD CCA.