Hurry up ATi

[ckenisell]

I'm getting tired of waiting for the X850 XT Platinum card. They keep saying Jan. Jan. Does this mean Jan. 31? :confused:

I've already ordered my P4 3.4 GHz, 2 GB Kingston RAM, ASUS P5AD2 Premium, Plextor PX-716SA DVD-RW drive and 200 GB Maxtor SATA drive.

[Blkout]

I wouldn't hold your breath, ATI had a difficult time producing their top of the line cards this past year.

[ckenisell]

Yeah, but I've read a LOT of press releases this time on the X850. Appearently, ATi has REALLY ramped up production in Taiwan for the processors in these cards. Their new line of cards are "supposed" to be readily available once they're released. In fact, prices should be retail or less very soon after their release.

ATi is promising all of the major review web sites that their new line of cards will be very easy to find on store shelves since they are making a LOT more than they did last year.

We'll see what happens.

[zxlr8]

pciEXPRESS only though, right?

[ckenisell]

From what I have read, that is correct.

[DooDoo]

If you are building a gaming rig, which I presume from your desire to get an X850, why did you buy an Intel?

[ckenisell]

Because I have had two very competent friends build AMD's in the past. Both over-heated. One had to mess with some liquid goo. No thanks.

On that note: I am fully aware of Intel's heating issues with the P4's. I have chosen to have a LOT of fans in my case.

Also, it's not just for gaming. most of it is for Softimage XSI work (including preview rendering before outsourcing to an external render farm).

I am NOT an extreme gamer. I played Half Life back in the day with my VooDoo2 card (LOL) and now I want to play Half Life 2, LOTR Battle for Middle Earth and Star Wars KOTOR 2 (maybe). However, when I play the games, I may want to play them on my HDTV with 5.1. That's why I want the x850.

Plus, I can run dual DVI monitors for XSI. I want a couple of these 23" flat panels (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore?family=AppleDisplays), but I doubt I can afford them just yet.

[Blkout]

Originally posted by ckenisell
Because I have had two very competent friends build AMD's in the past. Both over-heated. One had to mess with some liquid goo. No thanks.

On that note: I am fully aware of Intel's heating issues with the P4's. I have chosen to have a LOT of fans in my case.

Also, it's not just for gaming. most of it is for Softimage XSI work (including preview rendering before outsourcing to an external render farm).


Well, to be fair, since I own an Intel and AMD platform, both platforms will get the job done just fine, albiet Intel and AMD both have certain features that make them more appealing depending on the situation. But, I have to defend AMD for a second, there is no reason not to use an AMD CPU, but when it comes to gaming, AMD's are faster without a doubt. Intel would love you to believe that AMD is not reliable, but that's simply untrue.

[ckenisell]

Why are the AMD's faster than the Intel's? What would AMD's equivelent to the 3.4 P4 be?

[zxlr8]

In gaming, probably an athlon 64 3200+.

[Hughmc]

Originally posted by Blkout
Well, to be fair, since I own an Intel and AMD platform, both platforms will get the job done just fine, albiet Intel and AMD both have certain features that make them more appealing depending on the situation. But, I have to defend AMD for a second, there is no reason not to use an AMD CPU, but when it comes to gaming, AMD's are faster without a doubt. Intel would love you to believe that AMD is not reliable, but that's simply untrue.

Really, talk to any competent electrical engineer who knows the field and people who build computers. They will tell you AMD's arent reliable and do overheat. They may even carry and sell AMD but get them to be truthful about the chips.

[zxlr8]

you have to be kidding...amd is faster for sure and reliabilty? Man, give me a break...:confused: :eek:

[mcq3000]

Originally posted by Hughmc
Really, talk to any competent electrical engineer who knows the field and people who build computers. They will tell you AMD's arent reliable and do overheat. They may even carry and sell AMD but get them to be truthful about the chips.

ever heard of the prescott CPU which reaches 65-70 degrees and higher under 100 percent load? who the hell is this guy and where does he come up with this crap.

At this point in time, the AMD 64 CPU is the best processor to buy. Intel might catch up and there was a time the Northwood held the crown but AMD is clearly the superior chip in terms of Speed to Price ratio, features and yes, cooling. And when Windows 64 hits later this year.

[Blkout]

Those of you that think AMD CPU's lack reliability are either Intel biased or caught up in Intel's marketing, times have changed people and AMD is just as reliable as Intel. I have owned almost ever generation of AMD and Intel CPU over the last 9 years and the only CPU that has ever failed me has been an Intel P4.

[Grizwold99]

my reason for always going with intel, albeit with a few amd's tried out from time to time, is that intel makes the chipsets to go with their processors, and ultimately it's not that I don't so much trust amd's chips for reliability, it's that i don't trust the non intel chipset makers, including amd.

just 2 cents on why some people take intel over amd.

[Blkout]

Originally posted by Grizwold99
my reason for always going with intel, albeit with a few amd's tried out from time to time, is that intel makes the chipsets to go with their processors, and ultimately it's not that I don't so much trust amd's chips for reliability, it's that i don't trust the non intel chipset makers, including amd.

just 2 cents on why some people take intel over amd.


Nvidia makes fantastic chipsets for AMD and VIA isn't far behind. No need to worry about AMD motherboard support, its there in spades.

[ckenisell]

I really didn't mean for this to turn into an Intel vs. AMD thread. It seems like every time I mention that I went Intel, all of the AMD supporters jump out of the woodworks to praise AMD. I've made my choice. I'll let you know if I fry my Intel due to overheating. :D

[zxlr8]

ckenisell,
It is not that you told us your choice, it is that you are supplying false information about AMD and overheating. Remember how Intel scrapped the whole Tejas line because of heat issues? Prescott is another fine firebreather. All in all, each has their strength. I just choose to use a faster chip for my machine. Tell me what you get in sisoft sandra arithmetic and I bet you my little laptop beats it.....

[Blkout]

Originally posted by ckenisell
I really didn't mean for this to turn into an Intel vs. AMD thread. It seems like every time I mention that I went Intel, all of the AMD supporters jump out of the woodworks to praise AMD. I've made my choice. I'll let you know if I fry my Intel due to overheating. :D


As I said before, I use both, an Intel and AMD CPU in my computers, but there is no doubt that the AMD 64 is the king of CPU's for gaming.

[Blkout]

Originally posted by zxlr8
ckenisell,
It is not that you told us your choice, it is that you are supplying false information about AMD and overheating. Remember how Intel scrapped the whole Tejas line because of heat issues? Prescott is another fine firebreather. All in all, each has their strength. I just choose to use a faster chip for my machine. Tell me what you get in sisoft sandra arithmetic and I bet you my little laptop beats it.....


Faster at what though, that is the question? Intel is faster at video and and audio encoding and I do alot of that. You can't just say that AMD CPU's are faster without being more specific. I'll bet you my Intel P4 3.4GHz will encode video faster than your laptop.

[zxlr8]

Well, prove it. My Laptop will overclock to 2.4 gigs (A643400+)(1mb L2 cache) It is a laptop afterall. That puts us in to about the same power category. Find a common dvd and we will see who can rip it faster using dvdshrink. Whadya say?

[Blkout]

Originally posted by zxlr8
Well, prove it. My Laptop will overclock to 2.4 gigs (A643400+)(1mb L2 cache) It is a laptop afterall. That puts us in to about the same power category. Find a common dvd and we will see who can rip it faster using dvdshrink. Whadya say?


I don't have to prove it, there are tons of benchmarks out there that prove it for me. Intel is still faster at video encoding, sorry but its a fact.

[DooDoo]

Originally posted by Blkout
I don't have to prove it, there are tons of benchmarks out there that prove it for me. Intel is still faster at video encoding, sorry but its a fact.

Intel is faster at video encoding but only marginally so. In amost all other applications AMD holds the lead.

Check this out: http://anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2275&p=6

[Blkout]

Originally posted by DooDoo
Intel is faster at video encoding but only marginally so. In amost all other applications AMD holds the lead.

Check this out: http://anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2275&p=6

Am I arguing that Intel is faster at everything else? Read the whole thread please, I have recommended Intel and AMD depending on the application.

[DooDoo]

I am only stating that Intel is pretty much only faster in encoding. For everything else AMD would be the current king. We are in agreement. Bottom line is that Intel is not made for gaming.

[ckenisell]

Oh NOOOO!!! It's going to take 500 nano-seconds longer to load Half Life 2 level 4 on the Intel than the AMD!!! How am I going to live with that??? :rolleyes:

[DooDoo]

Originally posted by ckenisell
Oh NOOOO!!! It's going to take 500 nano-seconds longer to load Half Life 2 level 4 on the Intel than the AMD!!! How am I going to live with that??? :rolleyes:

Its no skin off my back, I am just stating the facts. Its more about FPS than loading levels (thats more of HDD issue). Regardless of which cpu you use, your graphics card will handle any current game. It will be pretty much worthless once the Unreal engine 3 comes out but such is the way of the computer industry.

[Low Roller]

If you want one now, Allstarshop.com has the x850XT PE listed as in stock and on sale for the bargain price of $835 (http://www.allstarshop.com/shop/product.asp?dept%5Fid=268&pid=10253&%20sid=42LHDUKL60XQ9NGP09M47GQFEUJ952SE), but at least you get free shipping! ;)

[ckenisell]

Yeah, I saw another place that had it for $1,009. LOL I think I can't wait a couple more weeks for them to be readily available for $400 or more OVER retail price.

Word on the street is that these things will be in stock at most major stores. They are manufacturing enough so that there is no shortage. Hopefully, that'll keep street prices down.

[taz291819]

Just ordered a X800 XT PE from Allstarshop. Price wasn't too bad for Sapphire OEM-model. Shipping was free.

[ckenisell]

Let us know how you like the Sapphire card.

I think I'm going to wait for the source (ATi) to bring out the X850 XT PE and buy the ATi model.

[ckenisell]

I just saw this (http://shop.ati.com/searchresults.asp?search=keyword&search_field=description&search_criteria=x850) in the ATi online shop and thought it was interesting.

Looks like they're ramping up!

[ckenisell]

Now, if I could just afford a couple of these 23" LCD screens (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore?family=AppleDisplays) I'd be in hog heaven.

[Komoto]

Because I have had two very competent friends build AMD's in the past. Both over-heated.
Your friends were not very competent. I've built dozens of AMD systems, none have overheated, despite many of them enduring games like Doom3, HalfLife2, and EQ2. I usually use 2 case fans and good airflow, and a custom cpu fan/heatsink combo (because I hate the whiny tiny stock cpu/hs fans). Not only does it keep the system cool, but it's whisper quiet because of the fans I use.

That's being very competent ;) Even though I consider myself a hack at it. I actually got a laugh a couple weeks ago because my friend had brought the pc I built him last summer into the local pc shop so they'd install a cd drive for him, everyone in the shop was drooling over it, and I consider it one of my cheesier jobs (I think case mods are silly, but if the pay is good enough, I'll do it). Not sure why he didn't have me install the drive, but the compliments were nice.
Now, if I could just afford a couple of these 23" LCD screens I'd be in hog heaven
Blah, save your money and go hdtv. For the price of the 30" cinema display, I bought my sammy 61" dlp.

[Dream1]

Hey Komoto, how do you know this: ¡§Your friends were not very competent¡¨?

That is a pretty uneducated and arrogant comment, especially if you do not know his friends certifications or experience level.

I personally have seen the same amount of fuss and frustrations over AMD machines as I have Intel machines. No one is better than the other on anything. In fact, they are so equal, honest reviewers and users alike have a hard time promoting one over the other. Every article that has a rave review for AMD states that Intel¡¦s CPU*** does better in another area. Like wise, every good review of Intel¡¦s chips has a section devoted to what AMD does better. The fact is that AMD and Intel do not differ by much. Intel has dual channel memory---ADM has On chip memory controllers, less heat, more heat, ---blah blah blah. The pros with the cons equal out for both chip makers. Now move on to which chipmaker makes the best dual core chip on the planet:-)

The starter of this thread was simply stating his personal experience. He did not make a blanket comments about AMD. I always wonder why AMD users are so quick to jump up and slam anyone who mentions AMD in a not so glorious light. They are not your momma. They do not need such defense. They are a multibillion dollar company who is more than capably of defending their own chips. Put down some facts or stop the crappy bickering.

Yo, zxlr8

I got an idea, why don¡¦t you just meet up with him and pull out the measuring stick. Quite simply, ¡§Bet you would loose¡¨. Your Penis envy is evident in every thread you participate. I am really tired of you stating that all the **** you have, or make, or demo is better, faster, and so on, than anyone else¡¦s. Dude, your **** is nice,- cool for you- Now go play with your laptop, pj, car, dvd player, and on and on and on and on, by yourself because your ¡V¡§non virtual¡¨- friends have probably long since got tired of your ¡§mine is better¡¨ attitude.

[DrCrawn]

x850 is a bad buy IMO. Might as well wait for the 24 pipe cards, or at least for 512 vram. Anyone buying one of these at current prices is gonna have a major case of buyer's remorse in a few months.

[Venomous]

ATI has paper launched the hell out of the 800XT and 850XT. Dont expect to see em.. Their latest 850XT has slipped worse then the 800XT.

You might as well wait. Nvidia is coming back with a vengence and their next set of cards will be even better. At least i can find NV cards in quantity.

Ive got a Gainward 6800GT Golden Sample that outclocks most Ultras. ALso got a 9800XT, so im not a fanboi. Best bang for the buck is what its all about.

[ckenisell]

Yeah, you're probably right about buyers remorse. But that's going to happen no matter when I buy any computer part.

The games that are out now usually don't support the new shaders or technical features found on todays newest cards. For instance, most "recommended requirements" on game boxes say "Radeon 9800 or better". So, it will be a while before even the features of the x800 or x850 will be out-dated.

The motherboard supports PCI-Express which is MUCH more bandwidth than these newest cards even need. So, a year or two later, I can still upgrade the graphics card without needing to build a new PC.

Plus, I want to play games in HD on my 55" mits and have 5.1 surround sound through my Halo C1 and M&K 150P's NOW. Not three months from now. I've been holding out on Half Life 2 until I build this new PC. I can't hold out much longer.

Oh yeah, I can also do dual DVI-out to two LCD monitors at a resolution of 3840x1200 (1920x1200 per monitor) for Softimage XSI. It doesn't get any better than that (in the near future anyway).

[taz291819]

Originally posted by ckenisell
Let us know how you like the Sapphire card.

I think I'm going to wait for the source (ATi) to bring out the X850 XT PE and buy the ATi model.

Got this puppy in last Thursday and man is it fast!

First, it is a lot quieter than my AIW 9700 Pro w/Arctic Silencer III that it replaced. Plus now I got my PCI slot back that the Silencer was covering!

I used to run newer games (HL2, Far Cry, Doom 3) at 856x480 2AA, but now I run them at 1776x1000 4AA 8AF (2AA 8AF for Far Cry) with everything maxed and the games run smoother now than before.

Needless to say, I'm extremely happy with this card, and it was well-worth the $535 including shipping that I paid for it. Gave the ATI AIW 9700 PRO to my father since he was using Integrated Graphics, which helped his system out a lot also.

Now I just can't wait for STALKER and F.E.A.R., bring 'em on.

[Taiser]

Wow a lot AMD and Intel cat fights going on.

WHY???

Both are OK, I've had both, right now running a p4 3.0 ovclk to 3.6 and no problems. Only reason I got it was because it was a good deal and the only thing that comes close is the 64 athlons. Last time I looked no games were supporting it so why shell out the extra cash? Guys are arguing over a few frames a second like 5 year olds (my dad can beat your dad).

I run BFV at 90-110 frames who cares if AMD runs at 95-115? My eyes can't see over 35 anyways.

If the performance is worth it maybe I'll upgrade and the next one will be AMD. I still use my 1 gig "thunderbird" (actually my wife does :)). Guys get too involved in a chip manufacturers and feel the need to defend it at all costs if someone mentions another one is better. HEY these are computers!!! The thing was obsolete a MONTH after you bought it.

LOL

[Shawn O]

Let's get back on topic please.No more AMD vs Intel.

[mobius]

Originally posted by ckenisell
Plus, I want to play games in HD on my 55" mits and have 5.1 surround sound through my Halo C1 and M&K 150P's NOW. Not three months from now. I've been holding out on Half Life 2 until I build this new PC. I can't hold out much longer.

Oh yeah, I can also do dual DVI-out to two LCD monitors at a resolution of 3840x1200 (1920x1200 per monitor) for Softimage XSI. It doesn't get any better than that (in the near future anyway).



I have the XFX 6800GT and it has dual DVI outs. It won't do 3840x1200, but it will do 2048x1536@85Hz. It has dual 400MHz RAMDACs- obviously, one for each DVI output.

[ckenisell]

Well, due to the low availibility of the X850 XT Platinum built by ATi (Retail Box), I've decided that it's not the card for me. Although it's nice, I'm not going to spend my $550 to buy some third-party OEM piece with no attachments, etc. I suppose I could have gotten the Asus version, but they want over $700 for something like that.

So, I went to CompUSA and got my hands on the x800 XL retail box for $300. Now, that I'm playing Half Life 2 at 1600x1200 ot 85Hz on my 21 in., I'm so glad I save my money and bought this cheaper card. Sure, it's got one VGA out and one DVI out. Sure, it's not the fastest card known to man. I've been playing Half Life 2 for a while now and haven't seen any slow-downs. I'm going to hook it up to my 1080i HDTV tonight and play some HL2 with 5.1 surround sound. Then, I'm sure I'll be super-happy!!!

For $300+ more dollars, who cares about the added quality between the X800 XL and the X850 XT?

[Low Roller]

nice, the x800xl is a great card, equal or better than a 6800gt I believe...

Enjoy!

[bitTRL1000]

From all the benchmarks I've seen it is roughly equivalent to the 6800gt

[DooDoo]

I believe its better in games like HL2.

[Shawn O]

Originally posted by DooDoo
I believe its better in games like HL2. ATI seems to do well w/ HL2 while NVidia does well w/ Doom 3 (Open GL).

[StormCrow]

Looks to me that the X800XL is a great bang for the buck card and there is an AGP version, as announced by ATI a few days ago, and Sapphire has the AGP version showing on their site now.

Hey ckenisell,

Great get on the $300 price. (Is that a built by ATI?) Glad to see someone is getting it for the MSRP....which is a good deal. Sad that so many have had to pay $50 or more over the price that ATI recommends.

I'm waiting for that AGP version to be available....buying only when it's at the MSRP or lower though. ;)

[taz291819]

Originally posted by Shawn O
ATI seems to do well w/ HL2 while NVidia does well w/ Doom 3 (Open GL).

Correct, ATI tends to be the leader with DirectX games and Nvidia tends to lead in the OpenGL department. With DirectX games, both manufacturers do well with 'normal' resolutions, but ATI seems to always pull ahead once the resolution and eye-candy (AA/AF) is cranked up.

[ckenisell]

Originally posted by StormCrow
Hey ckenisell,

Great get on the $300 price. (Is that a built by ATI?)
Yes, it's built by ATi.

Glad to see someone is getting it for the MSRP....which is a good deal. Sad that so many have had to pay $50 or more over the price that ATI recommends.

I'm waiting for that AGP version to be available....buying only when it's at the MSRP or lower though. ;)
Yes. Mine is definitely the last one the CompUSA had in stock (at that particular store). I suppose I was quite lucky. Paid MSRP + tax. They also had the older x800 XT Platinum, but they wanted $100 more for it. No thanks!

I finally made it to the point where I have the gravity gun in HL2. Still kicking butt and taking names. :D The game is great! The card is awesome!

Something else I'd like to point out: I have hooked up the x800XL to my HDTV using the included component RCA dongle. Here's what I've found:

GAMING: Played HL2 at 1080i. Really very cool, but I prefer playing it on my 21 in. Viewsonic monitor. Perhaps it's because I don't have to sit so close to the screen. (My wireless mouse only goes so far.)

WMVHD: Downloaded 1080p WMVHD files and played them at 1080i using Windows Media Player 10 (all I can say is WOW!) I'm so ready for HD-DVD/Blu-Ray it's not even funny! The WMVHD files are full 5.1 surround sound compliant too. Way to go Microsoft! (For reference, I downloaded the IMAX Dolphin clip and a couple of Windows Media Player 10 demo clips.)

ANALOG SURROUND SOUND: Hooked up the Creative Audigy 4 Pro analog outputs to the analog inputs on my Parasound Halo C1. I was able to play HL2 and the WMVHD files in full 5.1 surround sound. Very nice!

DIGITAL SURROUND SOUND: Hooked up the Creative Audigy 4 Pro optical SPDIF output to the optical digital input on my Parasound Halo C1. I was able to play DVDs and the 5.1 DD and DTS played just fine! The receiver recognized the surround format with no problems.

UP-REZZING 480P to 1080i I couldn't believe it. I simply played the 480p DVD at full screen and set the x800XL at 1080i output. Holy-bajeezus! It almost looked like native 1080i content! It was so beautiful. The ATi card did a fabulous job of taking my computers output and converting it to 1920x1080. Fantastic! I was most impressed with this.

DIGITAL PHOTOS SLIDE SHOW: I have an 8 mega-pixel Olympus camera. I downloaded some photos to my hard drive and played them back at full-screen as a slide show! It was so cool.

3D ANIMATION SOFTWARE: And last, but not least, I use Softimage|XSI (a 3D animation program) and it is preforming quite nicely too, for a gamer graphics card!

So, I've pretty much done everything one can do with the x800XL. So far, it has performed flawlessly. The only thing I don't like is that my HDTV has so much overscan, that I lose all four edges of the computer screen. I don't know if you've ever noticed it, but the 4 edges are what get used the most. All of the important icons are on the left edge, all menu items are on the top edge (including the close/minimize/etc. buttons, scrolling on the right edge, and the sys-tray and taskbar on the bottom edge. It's really difficult to navigate a computer when so much is getting chopped off. :confused: It would be much nicer on something with no overscan (plasma, LCD, etc.)

One last note: Since I was using the RCA component dongle, I thought the quality might be lacking a bit. So, I bought the DVI to component adapter from ATi's online store. I just received it, but I haven't hooked it up yet. I'll let you know how it goes when I do.

Hope this helps others make an informed decision! :)

[StormCrow]

Thanks for the update.

I may have missed mention of your wireless mouse/KB type.

I've been using an MS KB/Mouse that is RF/PS2. For under $10 I bought extension cables that have helped bring the RF receiver within workable range for Lazy Boy game play, etc. ;)

[ckenisell]

I never mentioned it because I'm using one of the first wireless mice and keyboards Logitech released. In fact, it was a combo set sold about 5 years ago simply called "Logitech Wireless Mouse & Keyboard".

You can't even find it in their "support" section on their web site.

Why haven't I upgraded you might ask? I have still yet to read a post from anyone saying that they love their wireless mouse and keyboard. It appears as though, in five years, very little has changed in this area.

[DooDoo]

Off topic:

Be wary of the AGP X800XL. I have heard rumors that its a crippled version with only 8 pipelines. If that is true, I wouldnt go near it.

[Shawn O]

Originally posted by DooDoo
Off topic:

Be wary of the AGP X800XL. I have heard rumors that its a crippled version with only 8 pipelines. If that is true, I wouldnt go near it. Thanks for the heads up.