avsforum is editing out ALL references to DVR Chatter..Why ?

[jones07]

I noticed that several posts that mentioned the site DVR Chatter, a new forum for Talk and information about the DCT-6412 DVR were deleted on avsforum.com. Other Home Theaters and Satellite Fan/customer sites are freely posted and linked to here.

My God even links to DVR Chatter in signatures have all been deleted. This is the first time than I seen this happened. This is the first time a post of mine have ever been deleted. My I have a reason way this is happening ?


Disclaimer: I realize this is a privately owned site and "Mods" can delete any post they like for any reason....................Just respectfully asking why this site when other HT sites are freely posted and signature link too.


Thanks

[rodneyremington]

Yes, what's the deal?

Why does this one user-supported forum seem to be selectively banned when people refer to other similar forums all the time?

[pleasanton]

Small minds fail to see bigger pictures in most cases. This sort of self serving censorship is unfortunate and distasteful to most, myself included.

[frankz1]

As the host and admin of the above mentioned site, I can report that my "Homepage" setting was deleted from my profile as well as my "Signature." All posts that carried that signature (a simple link back to the site) were also deleted. I can also note that references to the site are replaced with ********** IN MY PRIVATE MESSAGES TO OTHER USERS. Doesn't seem like trying to keep a thread on topic when you're in my private messages. Seems like a complete ban.

My suspicion is that there is one rogue moderator on a power trip, as I find it hard to believe it's AVS policy to invade a person's profile and censor information based on selective enforcment of a rule which doesn't appear to exist.

It's like McDonalds throwing customers out of line for mentioning the family-owned diner down the street.

[jones07]

Originally posted by frankz1
I can also note that references to the site are replaced with ********** IN MY PRIVATE MESSAGES TO OTHER USERS.


:eek:

[jones07]

Originally posted by frankz1
.

My suspicion is that there is one rogue moderator on a power trip, as I find it hard to believe it's AVS policy to invade a person's profile and censor information based on selective enforcment of a rule which doesn't appear to exist.

You seem to be right
I contacted Alan Gouger the Administrator of AVS and he said he knows nothing about it and also stated that Ken H was the one doing all of the above actions. I understand that ownership have to stand behind their Mods, But going into a persons profile and censoring private messages to a follow member seeking a site addy is very dis-tasteful.............Above and beyond

[Carl Jones]

This whole thing is VERY strange!

[rodneyremington]

I can report that Ken the moderator basically threatened to ban me in a PMfor mentioning this other enthusiast-run DVR forum . And it's true that mention of the name of this other forum is blocked out even in PMs to other people!

I'm not being hard on Ken here, he's a volunteer to keep this forum running smoothly and I respect that. I just disagree with this judgement call that's been made and suggest that high-ups review and reverse the block on this website.

[David Bott]

I love it when people jump to conclusions without the facts.

Lets see...over 30 SPAM messages set out in various threads on this site promoting the other site and via PM. ANY SITE would be added to the censor list for even much less than that. We are not here for someone to promote their own forums. Sorry...It is direct marking and ask such is not allowed. The SPAM more or less sent it over the edge. You are more or less luckly we did not ban the accounts that did it as we have done for any such spam of a site.

On a side note...this comes at a time when I was asked to make a full site for the chat on the topic. I declined for it costs money to operate such a site and would seek Comcast help in doing so if they would like such a site that is spun off AVS Forum. Then it seems it was done by someone else and the members choose to market it here. Thus the issue created. (How do you know we are not already now talking to Comcast for example.) Not to mention even considering opening a area for the PVR like the Replay area that is not a dedicated site.

[Woodrow]

I think this whole thread is a crock of s***. I just found the website your talking about simply with the info provided in the first post of this thread. It doesn't seem as though THIS thread is being censored. Secondly, when you go to that site they are openly advertising themselves as *banned from AVS*. I say screw them and you...why should AVS HAVE to let you provide links to ANY other forum? Also, BTW, you guys didn't pay for the private messaging service AVS provides and it is THEIRS to do with as they wish.

[Woodrow]

And sorry David, I was typing as you posted..had I seen your post I wouldn't have posted.

[Woodrow]

Wow...suddenly they have STOPPED advertising themselves as *banned from AVS*...something tells me that SOMEONE in this thread runs that site and is simply trying to get it started on the back of AVSForum...

Pretty sad...

[Ken H]

Originally posted by frankz1

My suspicion is that there is one rogue moderator on a power trip.... Your suspicion is wrong.

I simply informed the ownership that someone was spammiming the forum with links to another forum "go to www.xyzblab.comm", and that another member had the same forum link in their signature.

For the record, I can't alter member information, I can't alter Private Messages, and do not make decisions on these issues.

[frankz1]

Originally posted by Woodrow
Wow...suddenly they have STOPPED advertising themselves as *banned from AVS*...something tells me that SOMEONE in this thread runs that site and is simply trying to get it started on the back of AVSForum...

Pretty sad...

I run the site, and I clearly said it about 5 posts up. I thought it was funny to poke a little fun at the controversy. I wasn't going to create yet another vanilla over-moderated forum where posters are nothing more than tools to get eyeballs on advertisements. I wanted it to retain some of the joy of being a passionate enthusiast that corporate forums lack.

Then, I saw it was a point of contention and I changed it back to the way it originally was.

If you get sad from something so minor that has absolutely nothing to do with you, may I suggest prozac?

We wanted to have that board on this site. We were told "No" because they wanted to get some scratch from Comcast for a user-to-user forum. Seemed ridiculous, so I ponied up the cash to do it.

I replied to the original request for a 6412 forum with a link to the site, then I put a link in my signature like thousands of other people do to their own pages without difficulty every day. Then I put it as my homepage, just like thousands of other people have their sites in their "Home Page" field. Someone erased my "Home Page" field from my profile, erased my signature, and erased every post I made with that signature.

[Woodrow]

I wouldn't bother with Frank... he's one of the guys running that website.

They are easily identifiable by cross checking AVS usernames with ones at that site. Frank looks to be a mod there, if not the owner.

I would provide a link, but I don't want to assist them.:)

EDIT>>>>I think it a pretty crappy thing to do to start a website, spam AVS after having been a member here, and then having the balls to bitch about it when things don't go your way. You know, I bet AVS would let you advertise here....for some money.

[jones07]

Originally posted by David Bott

On a side note...this comes at a time when I was asked to make a full site for the chat on the topic. I declined for it costs money to operate such a site and would seek Comcast help in doing so if they would like such a site that is spun off AVS Forum. Then it seems it was done by someone else and the members choose to market it here. Thus the issue created. (How do you know we are not already now talking to Comcast for example.) Not to mention even considering opening a area for the PVR like the Replay area that is not a dedicated site.

Thank you for taking the time to reply on why

[jones07]

Originally posted by Woodrow
Yeah, Jones from Philly...another member of that site.;)
you knew damn well what was going on.

I'm a member of many HT fan sites

btw: What's going on ?

[David Bott]

"I wasn't going to create yet another vanilla over-moderated forum where posters are nothing more than tools to get eyeballs on advertisements."

If that is what you think AVS Forum is, you really then do not understand what we have built here for the home theater community. We see over 55,000+ unique visitors a day. We do over 1.9 Terabytes of data transfer a month. Without the help of the sponsors, the site would not be here.

Heck, you even have ADS BY GOOGLE on your site which yo get paid for per click!

All in all, AVS Forum is here for support. Even "People Helping People in Home Theater" is our motto.

Oh, as far as "over moderated", well I for one am happy with the site and it's operation. It seems that the only people to use such words are the ones that get moderated. From what I know, this was the first time you may have been. I mention this for you did not seem to have an issue with it until now. Remember...If we ran the site so poorly, we would not be were we are today.

Thank you kindly all.

[frankz1]

Originally posted by Woodrow
Yeah, Jones from Philly...another member of that site.;)

Get a life dude...you tried to pass yourself off as a "concerned" AVS user in this thread when you knew damn well what was going on.

I guess the fact that he's got about 2707 AVS posts under his belt *doesn't* make him an "AVS user."

I responded to a post requesting a forum for 6412 users by creating a site that did that. Then I responded to the post requesting it. That's hardly "promotion" or doing it "on someone's back."

[rodneyremington]

I would like to attribute all of this mess to a basic misunderstanding that probably could have been resolved by better communication.

I see no need for angry rhetoric on anyones' part.

May I suggest that we all simply move on. The issue has been addressed and at this point I see more heat than light being generated.

I think we can all agree that avsforum is a valuable resource but it's not perfect and neither are the users or the moderators.

People that want to find the other website will find it.

[frankz1]

Originally posted by David Bott
"I wasn't going to create yet another vanilla over-moderated forum where posters are nothing more than tools to get eyeballs on advertisements."

If that is what you think AVS Forum is, you really then do not understand what we have built here for the home theater community. We see over 55,000+ unique visitors a day. We do over 1.9 Terabytes of data transfer a month. Without the help of the sponsors, the site would not be here.

Heck, you even have ADS BY GOOGLE on your site which yo get paid for per click!

All in all, AVS Forum is here for support. Even "People Helping People in Home Theater" is our motto.

Oh, as far as "over moderated", well I for one am happy with the site and it's operation. It seems that the only people to use such words are the ones that get moderated. From what I know, this was the first time you may have been. I mention this for you did not seem to have an issue with it until now. Remember...If we ran the site so poorly, we would not be were we are today.

Thank you kindly all.

I respect what you've built here. I really do. But you're wrong in this case.

"Ads by Google" is not asking a company to sponsor a user-to-user forum where that company's product is to be discussed (sometimes negatively). It's also not forbidding people from saying a product sucks if it sucks as part of the TOS. It's also not micro-managing the words and thoughts of its users.

Your moderators have enforced a rule on me that does not exist and that they do not enforce on anyone else (Homepage is a field in people's profiles for God's sake). Mottos and Credos are great. They're not actions.

People link to their own sites in their signatures every day. People respond to posts with links to outside sites every day. People enter their homepages in their profiles every day.

I have enjoyed posting on AVS over the years. I like AVS as a concept. You want to trumpet where you are today, and that is true. You're Goliath. Running the site this way is not how you got there. Respectfully.

[jones07]

Originally posted by rodneyremington
I would like to attribute all of this mess to a basic misunderstanding that probably could have been resolved by better communication.

I see no need for angry rhetoric on anyones' part.

May I suggest that we all simply move on. The issue has been addressed and at this point I see more heat than light being generated.

I think we can all agree that avsforum is a valuable resource but it's not perfect and neither are the users or the moderators.

People that want to find the other website will find it.

Agreed.

I asked a question and it was respectfully replied too.

Thank you..................................I'm moving on


__________________

[David Bott]

I am sorry Frank...but you still just do not seem to get it. You are running ads. Thus you can make $$$ from the ads.

We have the same rules as as we had when we started the site. We have added to them as we progressed for issues just like this as the site grew and grew. However, we have remained the same in how we operate the site.

You are upset for we took action on your site. We had every right to do so right down to removing the signature and the link. As mentioned, we could have banned the account for that is what we usually do in cases that happen when a site uses this site for promotion. We did not however for you have not been an issue on the site.

With such comments above, you still continue to defend your actions and attack the site and how it is run. Heck, do you know that we have returned sponsor money and stopped ads on the site because the company thought they had a right to post as they wished on the site as a sponsor. Do you know we turned down money from that same sponsor 6 months later when they wanted to come back? I mention this for we are not here for the sponsors. But they are needed to keep the site running. But even they need to play by the rules.

Sorry you are upset by the actions we took on your site.

[frankz1]

Originally posted by David Bott
I am sorry Frank...but you still just do not seem to get it. You are running ads. Thus you can make $$$ from the ads.

We have the same rules as as we had when we started the site. We have added to them as we progressed for issues just like this as the site grew and grew. However, we have remained the same in how we operate the site.

You are upset for we took action on your site. We had every right to do so right down to removing the signature and the link. As mentioned, we could have banned the account for that is what we usually do in cases that happen when a site uses this site for promotion. We did not however for you have not been an issue on the site.

With such comments above, you still continue to defend your actions and attack the site and how it is run. Heck, do you know that we have returned sponsor money and stopped ads on the site because the company thought they had a right to post as they wished on the site as a sponsor. Do you know we turned down money from that same sponsor 6 months later when they wanted to come back? I mention this for we are not here for the sponsors. But they are needed to keep the site running. But even they need to play by the rules.

Sorry you are upset by the actions we took on your site.

I think part of this may be that you've been misinformed as to what happened by your moderator.

There were a number of posts asking "Will anyone create a forum for this product?" I created the forum, and then I replied to one of those posts "I created it. Here it is." That's it. One post. Not 30 like I've seen quoted. Not spam. An answer to a request.

Yes, I would like to have the cost covered by ads. Who wouldn't? I have no expectation that the full costs will be, or that I will ever "Make Money." I wasn't trying to sell anything on your site.

You have every right to do as you wish with this site. That was never disputed and is not the issue. Some folks didn't agree with the choices that were made is all.

If you're in folks' private messages and aware of their content, perhaps you should change the name of these types of messages from "private."

We'll agree to disagree, and no hard feelings. I have a ton of respect for what you've done here. You've done a whale of a job.

[greywolf]

C'mon. Private means members not addressed can't access the message. Of course moderators can just as your ISP can access your e-mail. Otherwise the spammers would have a field day.

[Ken H]

Originally posted by frankz1
I think part of this may be that you've been misinformed as to what happened by your moderator.
Wrong again.

I explained exactly what happened. No more, no less.

[David Bott]

Ken is 100% right it how it was handled. You also may be be aware of all the posts that were made. Maybe you did not make them, but I can assure you they were made. Also the word censor list is site wide. It does not care if it is a post or a PM.

All in all moving on. However I am glad to see you have now admitted you are running the ads to make money to maybe help offset the cost of your site. Especially after putting our site down as a place for people to just see ads.

[whotony]

IT seems to me the 2 sites would have worked well in collaberation with each other.

too bad.

[AnthonyP]

Your moderators have enforced a rule on me that does not exist and that they do not enforce on anyone else (Homepage is a field in people's profiles for God's sake). Mottos and Credos are great. They're not actions.


I don't know, what happened, but I definitely sure that you are wrong with this. I know of many cases where people were told to stop and/or the site name was put in the censor list. try e bay, try ta w...... so if you think you are singled out as the only one, you are wrong. I was even involved in one case where some guy created a tool (ladder holder) that he thought some of the people might be interested, I added a post to his site that talked about the product (that was not even out yet)

If they don't consider something a problem they don't do anything about it, if the site does become a problem they do. You and your site are not the first and chances are you will not be the last


If you're in folks' private messages and aware of their content, perhaps you should change the name of these types of messages from "private."


You don't get it, no one is reading your PM, the site has an agent and it looks at everything posted in the database and censor all words that are in its dictionary. It does not matter if it is a PM or a thread on the site.

[frankz1]

EDIT: I had a whole response here. Instead, why don't we just say "Lesson Learned," end this whole topic of discussion, and go on our merry way?

[David Bott]

Thread closed. Done. :)