View Full Version : Official 2005 Pioneer Thread:(4350,5050,920,1120)
rentwist
06-16-05, 07:13 PM
OK PIO PALS, here's where we can share our info, help each other out with our set-ups and experience, or just gloat over our cool new displays. I figured these 4 models are all basically the same, so we can each benefit from the info posted here. "Let the THREAD begin..."
Finally.....our own thread
rentwist
06-16-05, 07:21 PM
you got-it D-Nice. Now all we gotta do is keep it going. So please all you Pio ppl post your "STUFF" here.
rentwist,
What are you current settings on your Pioneer?
mlavin00
06-16-05, 08:04 PM
Can I join with an Pro-810?? Pretty please???
mooneydriver
06-16-05, 08:13 PM
Here are some FAQs on the 2005 Pioneers. If you have other FAQs to add, send them to me and I'll keep editing this entry.
Q. Why doesn't the Pioneer web site doesn't have the PDF manual?
A. It's the exact same manual as the 4345/5045, and apparently it's on the Pio web site now (thanks, MNBri!)
Q. How's this thing shipped?
A. The 5050 is shipped in a VERY LARGE carton that sits on top of a wooden crate (total weight ~ 198 lbs). Ask your delivery person to help you unpack the large carton. Inside the large box, there are a total of four boxes (the PDP, media receiver, speakers, and tabletop stand).
Q. When were these PDPs released?
A. The xx50s were announced in January, 2005 and became generally available in February, 2005.
Q. When are the 2006 models coming out?
A. The xx60 models are scheduled to come out at the end of September 2005. See this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=556393) for more info. 2006 Elites will be released sometime after the non-Elite models.
Q. Should I buy now, or should I wait for the 2006 models?
A. Again, check the thread about the 2006 models. Pioneer claims major improvements in black level and contrast for the 2006 models (and lower prices!). If the 2006s turn out to be as good as claimed, it might be worth the wait.
Q. I heard that these PDPs buzz.
A. Every PDP buzzes to a certain extent (same principle as a fluorescent light bulb). Very few 2005 Pioneers have an audible buzz, and we believe Pioneer has a fix for this problem now. See this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=535325) for more info.
Q. I heard that the media receiver makes a big racket.
A. According to the manual, the media receiver has a fan that's always on. Some fans appear to be louder than others. Mine is very quiet. Some readers were able to replace their noisy MR's for quiet ones. It's also possible that the fan has different speed settings depending on temperature. So, make sure the MR is in a well-ventilated location, though. (thanks, Glashub!)
Q. XXXX.com has it for an unbelievable price. Is it worth buying it from an authorized dealer and paying more?
A. Yes. Pioneer does not honor the warranty if the PDP is purchased online from an unauthorized dealer. The list of authorized dealers is on the Pioneer web site.
Q. I'd like to replace the media receiver with XXXX (insert favorite video processor here).
A. Sorry. You can't.
Q. How can I place the PDP more than 10 ft away from the media receiver?
A. You'll need to buy a proprietary extension cable ($300 or so). Ouch. Pioneer's cable is more expensive than third-party brands (which are still expensive). There are cables up to 50 ft in length, but according to Pioneer the TVs will only work with cables up to 35 ft in length.
Q. How is the analog reception?
A. Excellent if you have a good, strong cable signal. With satellite, you're at the mercy of the compression schemes used on the signal. Most viewers are happy with the analog reception.
Q. Should I buy the 50" unit or the 43"?
A. 50" is a great choice, unless you have space restrictions. The price differential is rather small. Even analog TV is quite watchable on a 50" from as close as 8 ft.
Q. What are the differences between Elite and non-Elite models?
A. Elite models have 2-year warranty, gold connectors, and two picture setting modes which are available for ISF calibration. There are no other technology/feature differences. There was at least one comment from a Pioneer technician that the Elites have a superior scaler, but there is no concrete evidence to that effect.
Q. What are the differences between xx50 and xx51 models?
A. xx51 is a rebadging of the xx50 for Best Buy. Otherwise, the only difference is that Best Buy includes a wall mount in addition to the tabletop mount with the xx51s.
Q. What are the differences between the xx40s, xx45s, and xx50s?
A. The only difference between the xx40s and xx45s is cable card compatibility. The major differences between the xx4x and xx50 are:
* Non-glass front panel (aka "1st Surface Pure Color Filter") on the xx50s. The new panel reduces PDP weight and cuts glare.
* ACE III vs ACE II (1792 luma (grayscale) levels per cell as opposed to 1024) in the xx50s.
* Esthetics: On the xx50s, the speakers are black (instead of silver) and they are full-size. On the xx4xs, the speakers can be mounted below the panel; this is not possible on the xx50s.
Q. How many HDMI inputs are there on the 2005 Pioneers?
A. Two. Note that they are coupled with two of the component inputs. You have to go into the menu system to switch either input between HDMI and component.
Q. Do these TVs have ACE III or ACE II?
A. The xx50s have ACE III, for whatever it's worth. They also have a non-glass (aka fancy plastic) front panel which reduces PDP weight quite a bit.
Q. What are the dimensions of these PDPs?
The dimensions can be found in the Pioneer web site and product manuals. If you plan to use the table stand that comes wit the xx50s, the table stand lifts the PDP by 3 inches.
Q. Does the quoted width include the speakers?
A. No. The width posted on the Pioneer web site (or in the manual) is without the speakers.
Q. Are the speakers removable?
A. Yes. They come in a separate box and it's up to you whether to install them.
Q. Are there separate memory settings for individual inputs?
A. Yes, all inputs have their own memory settings for contrast, brightness, color, tint, sharpness, and the advanced picture settings (CTI, DRE, 3:3 vs 3:2 pulldown, etc.).
Q. How do I get in the service menu? (from Brian Miller)
A. PLEASE NOTE: The service menu can be dangerous if you start making adjustments without knowing what you're doing! Proceed with caution; look, but don't touch. At any rate, the SM is useful to monitor your panel's lifetime hours.
To get into the SM, do this (it can take multiple tries to get the timing just right):
Start with the plasma turned OFF.
Press DISPLAY on the remote (just press, do not hold).
Wait 3 seconds.
Press LEFT, UP, LEFT, RIGHT then POWER (on the remote).
If done correctly, the plasma turns on and the INFORMATION page is displayed.
Press DOWN to page through each menu (for instance, to see the multiple pages that make up the INFORMATION section). Press MUTE to jump through the different menus. Use HOME MENU to exit the service menu.
pstrisik
06-17-05, 12:35 AM
Good timing for me on this thread. I've been tempted to pick up the 4350 this weekend. I've been obsessing for months.
My biggest reservations are 1) black levels/detail and, 2) noise from the media receiver.
2) In the FAQ, mooneydriver says to "Make sure it's in a well-ventilated location, though. If it heats up, you may hear the fan." Does this mean the fan is thermostatically controlled? That would be great since I could have some control over whether the fan comes on or not. Anyone with a definitive answer?
1) I guess I've been severely influenced by all the Panny talk about black levels. But the Pannys are so short on features and connections, that I'm not sure I would be happy, even if the PQ is slightly better. Opinions ?
I do have some other questions......
3) Does the 4350 have memory for settings on a per input basis (ie, set input 1 one way and input 2 another for color balance, contrast, etc., and be able to switch back and forth with the settings retained on each input)?
4) Can the degree of zoom be set on all sources/inputs?
Thanks everyone!
mooneydriver
06-17-05, 01:40 AM
I believe the fan is thermostatically controlled, but that's not a definitive answer. I never heard mine come on.
Yes, all inputs have their own memory settings for contrast, brightness, color, tint, sharpness, and the advanced picture settings (CTI, DRE, 3:3 vs 3:2 pulldown, etc.).
Re: picture quality between the Panny and Pioneer, many of us think that the Pioneer PQ surpasses the Panny! I'm personally tired of the black level discussion -- I bought this TV for its exceptional color reproduction. It's not all that important to me whether it accurately reproduces the LACK OF color or light (aka "black.") Your mileage may vary.
(I'm typing this while watching U2's Rattle and Hum on INHD2 -- it's black and white and it looks phenomenal!)
Re: degree of zoom, yes, sort of. It's not dependent on input; it's dependent on source. HD sources (720p and 1080i) can only switch between full and wide. 480i and 480p sources can switch between 4:3, full, wide, cinema, and zoom. There is no adjustment for the level of zoom. For 4:3 sources, I prefer the cinema mode; it's a slight zoom + progressive stretch.
Albert C. Lee
06-17-05, 08:57 AM
Thanks for starting this thread! My 5050HD comes next week!
Some more questions:
1. What tools are required to attach the display to the stand?
2. I hear the 5050HD is very close to ISF standards out of the box -- how close have others found the display to be?
-Al
puckfreak
06-17-05, 09:43 AM
Two quick questions for 4350 owners...
1) Does it have ACE III? TVA lists ACE II
2) How many HDMI ports does it have? TVA Lists one, but I remember hearing that it does have two.
Thanks.
puckfreak
06-17-05, 09:45 AM
Also, since I can now post URL's
Here is the CNET review of the 5050
http://reviews.cnet.com/Pioneer_PDP_5050HD/4505-6485_7-31302910.html?tag=lst
jfelbab
06-17-05, 09:47 AM
My 4350 settings after Video Essentials and Sound & Vision's Home Theater Tune-Up:
Picture Settings
Contrast: 30
Brightness: -2
Color: -15
Tint: 2
Sharpness: -1
Pro Adjust
Pure Cinema: Adv
Color Temp: Mid
MPEG NR: On
DNR: Low
CTI: On
DRE: On
You won't need any of your own tools to attach the display to the stand - it comes with a wrench type tool. It's very easy to attach, but you will want someone to help you lift the display onto the bars (even though it has built-in handles at the top). I believe a philips head screw driver was necessary to attach the speakers to the brackets that mount to the display.
Not sure about how close it comes to the ISF standard. I have temporarily turned my contrast down (to like 25-30 range) to "break the set in" - not sure if this is absolutely necessary, but I don't want to take any risks. After I get 100 hrs or so on it, I'll spend lots more time tweaking it to fine tune the picture. Even without making any major adjustments, the picture looked pretty good (IMO.) I also toned the color down a bit so the reds weren't quite so bright. I may try to find the avia or dve dvds this weekend and give one of them a shot. This plasma stuff is all pretty new to me right now, so I look forward to hearing what other people are doing.
As a side note, here's an interesting thing that happened to me - my Pio 5050 came with an Elite media receiver. No joke, it is all black and says Elite on the front. The receiver manual and box also say Pro-1120/920. The actual display says Pioneer along the front, and the table stand is silver, just like I would expect for the 5050. Has this happened to anyone else? For all intensive purposes do I have an Elite now, or is there also something different in the display that makes the Elite work like an Elite? I know the 5050 and 1120 are virtually identical, but I'm not sure what to call mine now - maybe an 1150 :) I'll post a few pictures of my new "mutt" when I get a chance. Maybe later this weekend.
Thanks for starting this thread - I think it's going to be very beneficial!
Nuzy
On Pioneer's website they list the dimensions as:
Dimensions (W x H x D):
50 x 29 x 3-7/8 inches
for the 5050.
Is this with or without the speakers? I will not be using those speakers.
If that is with the speakers does anyone know what the width is without the speakers?
Woodrow
06-17-05, 10:26 AM
Just a quick tip..
When using ZOOM with 4:3 material, you can use the screen positioning option and fine tune the picture position..ie..eliminate cut off heads by moving the screen down. You'll lose some content on the bottom of the screen, but it looks better than cut off heads making the fact that your zooming much less noticeable. On some material, its tough to tell it from widescreen material. Example, when watching MSNBC, I can eliminate ALL the bugs at the bottom of the screen while getting no cut-off heads. Works especially well with non-live material(recorded earlier) because the *LIVE* icon isn't up in the left top corner. How good this works varies with the material you are watching, but I've found it to be an invaluable tweaking tool for other than widescreen material.
Anyway, just something to play with when using the zoom mode.:)
[QUOTE=Nuzy]You won't need any of your own tools to attach the display to the stand - it comes with a wrench type tool. It's very easy to attach, but you will want someone to help you lift the display onto the bars (even though it has built-in handles at the top). I believe a philips head screw driver was necessary to attach the speakers to the brackets that mount to the display.
Not sure about how close it comes to the ISF standard. I have temporarily turned my contrast down (to like 25-30 range) to "break the set in" - not sure if this is absolutely necessary, but I don't want to take any risks. After I get 100 hrs or so on it, I'll spend lots more time tweaking it to fine tune the picture. Even without making any major adjustments, the picture looked pretty good (IMO.) I also toned the color down a bit so the reds weren't quite so bright. I may try to find the avia or dve dvds this weekend and give one of them a shot. This plasma stuff is all pretty new to me right now, so I look forward to hearing what other people are doing.
As a side note, here's an interesting thing that happened to me - my Pio 5050 came with an Elite media receiver. No joke, it is all black and says Elite on the front. The receiver manual and box also say Pro-1120/920. The actual display says Pioneer along the front, and the table stand is silver, just like I would expect for the 5050. Has this happened to anyone else? For all intensive purposes do I have an Elite now, or is there also something different in the display that makes the Elite work like an Elite? I know the 5050 and 1120 are virtually identical, but I'm not sure what to call mine now - maybe an 1150 :) I'll post a few pictures of my new "mutt" when I get a chance. Maybe later this weekend.
Thanks for starting this thread - I think it's going to be very beneficial!
Nuzy[/QUOTE]
where did you purchase your 5050 from?
mooneydriver
06-17-05, 10:52 AM
I edited the FAQ (toward the top of the first page of this thread) and included responses to most of the latest questions. Check it out.
fioresvt
06-17-05, 10:58 AM
also i believe that on pioneer's website they have the link to the manual right with the details to the 5050hd on their website. and for the media box connection, some of the forum sponsors have longer cables that are "slightly" cheaper than the pioneer cables, they also have lengths up to 50 feet, but i have seen somewhere where it mentions there may be a max of 35 ft with the pioneer setup. i can not wait to purchase mine in a couple weeks, you may also want to add the 5051(best buy model number for 5050hd) to help avoid confusion and since it's the same tv as the 5050hd.
Glashub
06-17-05, 11:23 AM
Just for the sake of clarity...the media receiver fan is always on. That is the way it is supposed to be according to the owners manual. I exchanged 3 media boxes at Magnolia Audio/Best Buy to get one that is quiet. Great service there by the way. Ended up with a floor model media receiver. Otherwise I would have had to switch out the whole set up. And it is not whisper quiet but it is at a very low pitch and not audible to my sensitive ears from my seating posittion of 10-12 feet. The media receiver that came with my Pio was loud. I don't want to rain on anybody's parade but I want those who haven't purchased to know what they are getting into.
pstrisik
06-17-05, 11:51 AM
Glashub... thanks for the info on the media receiver fan. If I pick this up at BB, I'll be clear about my expectations with them.
mooneydriver... thanks for all the other info, and the FAQ!
More q's:
Are the speakers removable?
Can closed captions be turned on with a single button on the remote?
Thanks...
[QUOTE=pstrisik]Good timing for me on this thread. I've been tempted to pick up the 4350 this weekend. I've been obsessing for months.
My biggest reservations are 1) black levels/detail and, 2) noise from the media receiver.
2) In the FAQ, mooneydriver says to "Make sure it's in a well-ventilated location, though. If it heats up, you may hear the fan." Does this mean the fan is thermostatically controlled? That would be great since I could have some control over whether the fan comes on or not. Anyone with a definitive answer?
1) I guess I've been severely influenced by all the Panny talk about black levels. But the Pannys are so short on features and connections, that I'm not sure I would be happy, even if the PQ is slightly better. Opinions ?
I do have some other questions......
3) Does the 4350 have memory for settings on a per input basis (ie, set input 1 one way and input 2 another for color balance, contrast, etc., and be able to switch back and forth with the settings retained on each input)?
4) Can the degree of zoom be set on all sources/inputs?
Thanks everyone![/QUOTE]
The difference between the Pioneer 50 series and current Panasonics black levels is around 4-6%. The difference between the Pioneer 40/45 series and current Panasonics black level is more in the realm of 10-15%.
[QUOTE=pstrisik]Glashub... thanks for the info on the media receiver fan. If I pick this up at BB, I'll be clear about my expectations with them.
mooneydriver... thanks for all the other info, and the FAQ!
More q's:
Are the speakers removable?
Can closed captions be turned on with a single button on the remote?
Thanks...[/QUOTE]
Yes the speakers are removable. I'm not sure about the one button activation of CCs. I'll check when I get home.
[QUOTE=Nuzy]You won't need any of your own tools to attach the display to the stand - it comes with a wrench type tool. It's very easy to attach, but you will want someone to help you lift the display onto the bars (even though it has built-in handles at the top). I believe a philips head screw driver was necessary to attach the speakers to the brackets that mount to the display.
Not sure about how close it comes to the ISF standard. I have temporarily turned my contrast down (to like 25-30 range) to "break the set in" - not sure if this is absolutely necessary, but I don't want to take any risks. After I get 100 hrs or so on it, I'll spend lots more time tweaking it to fine tune the picture. Even without making any major adjustments, the picture looked pretty good (IMO.) I also toned the color down a bit so the reds weren't quite so bright. I may try to find the avia or dve dvds this weekend and give one of them a shot. This plasma stuff is all pretty new to me right now, so I look forward to hearing what other people are doing.
As a side note, here's an interesting thing that happened to me - my Pio 5050 came with an Elite media receiver. No joke, it is all black and says Elite on the front. The receiver manual and box also say Pro-1120/920. The actual display says Pioneer along the front, and the table stand is silver, just like I would expect for the 5050. Has this happened to anyone else? For all intensive purposes do I have an Elite now, or is there also something different in the display that makes the Elite work like an Elite? I know the 5050 and 1120 are virtually identical, but I'm not sure what to call mine now - maybe an 1150 :) I'll post a few pictures of my new "mutt" when I get a chance. Maybe later this weekend.
Thanks for starting this thread - I think it's going to be very beneficial!
Nuzy[/QUOTE]
Man you are lucky. Can you check and see if you have additional settings in the pro menu? The Elite is suppose to have 5 color temp settings instead of the 50's standard 3 settings.
Cleveland Plasma
06-17-05, 01:12 PM
[QUOTE=Nuzy]
As a side note, here's an interesting thing that happened to me - my Pio 5050 came with an Elite media receiver. No joke, it is all black and says Elite on the front. The receiver manual and box also say Pro-1120/920. The actual display says Pioneer along the front, and the table stand is silver, just like I would expect for the 5050. Has this happened to anyone else? For all intensive purposes do I have an Elite now, or is there also something different in the display that makes the Elite work like an Elite? I know the 5050 and 1120 are virtually identical, but I'm not sure what to call mine now - maybe an 1150 :) I'll post a few pictures of my new "mutt" when I get a chance. Maybe later this weekend.
Nuzy[/QUOTE]
Wow did you get lucky. I am almost positive with the research I have done and being in the Business that yes you have an "Elite" and save a few thousand. The different scalers that produce a better picture and things of this nature are in the media box. Thats great. However 1 downfall you might want to call Pioneer and let them know seeing if you ever need warranty service they are going to say "were did this media receiver come from? We cannot warranty this product".
Here are my current settings....
Picture Settings
Picture Mode: User
Contrast: 25
Brightness: +2
Color: -15
Tint: -2
Sharpness: -1
Pro Adjust
Pure Cinema: Std (720p) Adv (480i and 1080i)
Color Temp: Low (closest to 65k)
MPEG NR: On
DNR: Low
CTI: Off
DRE: On ( A MUST!!!!!)
pstrisik
06-17-05, 01:54 PM
Thanks for the additional info D-Nice. Removable speakers, another plus! Have a "captions" button on the remote would be a plus, but I plan to eventually get a good programmable remote and assume I could set up a macro to go into the menu, turn it on/off, and exit again.
EarlofSeattle
06-17-05, 02:07 PM
Yes, BB still includes the wall mount for the xx51 series. Other than that the BB xx51 series is the same as the xx50 you can buy anywhere else.
[QUOTE=Cleveland Plasma]Wow did you get lucky. I am almost positive with the research I have done and being in the Business that yes you have an "Elite" and save a few thousand. The different scalers that produce a better picture and things of this nature are in the media box. Thats great. However 1 downfall you might want to call Pioneer and let them know seeing if you ever need warranty service they are going to say "were did this media receiver come from? We cannot warranty this product".[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I figured I should get that straightened out. Looks like someone put the wrong receiver box in the big box (the receiver box actually says Elite on it). The weird thing about registering with Pioneer on-line is that you can only register one serial number. The media box and speakers each have different S/Ns than the display. I put the display S/N in when I registered. I also purchased the extra 4 yr warranty through TVA. I already have a call/email into Kin at TVA (X522), where I purchased the set, asking about the warranty deal. Haven't heard back yet. For anyone looking to purchase this display, my experience with TVA has been very good, from order through delivery to post purchase support.
[QUOTE=D-Nice]Man you are lucky. Can you check and see if you have additional settings in the pro menu? The Elite is suppose to have 5 color temp settings instead of the 50's standard 3 settings.[/QUOTE]
D - I'll check when I get home and post later tonight.
Nuzy
jfelbab
06-17-05, 02:45 PM
[QUOTE=D-Nice]Here are my current settings....
Color Temp: Low (closest to 65k)[/QUOTE]
That is interesting. On my 4350 I found the "Low" setting to be closer to 55k, the "Mid" to be near 65k and the "High" to be near 92k. Did you measure the color temp or eyeball it? On my screen "Low" exhibits a distinct redish/yellow white.
Thanks for starting this up. I am about to buy a 4350 this week from Satellite & Sound. Anyone have experience with this company. I am not anticipating any trouble. Question: Was the stand you referred to the PFS-1011? And has anyone had any experience using the rear wireless speaker system, the XW-HT1 ?
spingrinder
06-17-05, 06:38 PM
How many 4350 owners have "5050" or other 50" 'itis?
Do you now wish that you had the larger set or do you find the 43 to be sufficient?
[QUOTE=jfelbab]That is interesting. On my 4350 I found the "Low" setting to be closer to 55k, the "Mid" to be near 65k and the "High" to be near 92k. Did you measure the color temp or eyeball it? On my screen "Low" exhibits a distinct redish/yellow white.[/QUOTE]
I eyeballed mine but my friend had his ISF'ed and the guy stated that the Low temp was the most accurate....something like 66K.
[QUOTE=spingrinder]How many 4350 owners have "5050" or other 50" 'itis?
Do you now wish that you had the larger set or do you find the 43 to be sufficient?[/QUOTE]
I own both models and my 43 performs it's job well. It is used for daily TV viewing while my 50" is used to watch movies.
rentwist
06-17-05, 07:22 PM
Thanks everybody for posting. I knew there were alot of PIO owners out there. All we needed was our own thread. Keep posting. I would really like to see if there is a big difference in settings from someone "eyeballing" settings : someone with "calibrated" settings.
rentwist
06-17-05, 07:41 PM
Hey Begwer, I bought my 50" PIO plasma from Dave@satsound. He was very knowledgable. He's the MAN ( owner ). You can rest assured that it's safe. You can double your warrantee by using your VISA card.
rentwist
06-17-05, 08:43 PM
pstrisik, once you go into the main menu and set up CC, which is like 2-3 clicks, I believe you then can toggle it OFF/ON with 1 button on the remote.
pstrisik
06-17-05, 11:32 PM
[QUOTE=rentwist]pstrisik, once you go into the main menu and set up CC, which is like 2-3 clicks, I believe you then can toggle it OFF/ON with 1 button on the remote.[/QUOTE]
Good info! Thanks.
pstrisik
06-17-05, 11:38 PM
Well I talked to TVA today and went to Best Buy about the 4350. I came within a hair of buying it today and chickened out. BB's sale continues through tomorrow. I shouldn't worry so much since BB will take it back if I'm not happy with it, but it's a big deal to take this home and back again.
One thing that shook me a bit was moving text on the BB HD loop. It had jaggies and lag much worse than any of the other HD sets. Naturally, I couldn't get into the settings, so I really don't know what's what. Does anyone who has this set notice this with moving text or fast motion in general?
Thanks.
mooneydriver
06-17-05, 11:58 PM
[QUOTE=pstrisik]One thing that shook me a bit was moving text on the BB HD loop. It had jaggies and lag much worse than any of the other HD sets. Naturally, I couldn't get into the settings, so I really don't know what's what. Does anyone who has this set notice this with moving text or fast motion in general?[/QUOTE]
Judging a PDP in a Best Buy is somewhat like deciding on which sports car to buy by driving them in dealer parking lots. There is very little correlation to reality. Take a deep breath, relax, pull the trigger! You'll be very glad you did!
(moving text on my 5050 does not have jaggies or anything)
Glashub
06-18-05, 12:48 AM
Even after reading so much about how the Panny has better blacks and Hitachi has better that or LG has better this, I am still very pleased with this display. I could take it back if I wanted to but, how do I put it..the gestalt of the set, the overall spirit and evident quality in all areas is what nails the deal closed for me. Hell, I like to look at it when it's off. Laugh at me if you will. I can take it.
[QUOTE=D-Nice]Man you are lucky. Can you check and see if you have additional settings in the pro menu? The Elite is suppose to have 5 color temp settings instead of the 50's standard 3 settings.[/QUOTE]
Checked it tonight and yes, I do have 5 color temp settings, plus an option to manually set the color temp. I suppose this is great if I ever spend the money to have it professionally calibrated, but I don't know how much good it will do a probie like me. As it is, there are more settings to mess with on this thing than I know what to do with! I guess I better go buy AVIA or DVE and start the hours upon hours of tweaking.
pstrisik
06-18-05, 01:23 AM
[QUOTE=mooneydriver]Judging a PDP in a Best Buy is somewhat like deciding on which sports car to buy by driving them in dealer parking lots. There is very little correlation to reality. Take a deep breath, relax, pull the trigger! You'll be very glad you did!
(moving text on my 5050 does not have jaggies or anything)[/QUOTE]
Ok. I'm reassured. I'll head down there again tomorrow and see if I can see this thing through!
Jithtproject
06-18-05, 09:08 AM
[Hey Begwer, I bought my 50" PIO plasma from Dave@satsound. He was very knowledgable. He's the MAN ( owner ). You can rest assured that it's safe. You can double your warrantee by using your VISA card. ]
Even then 5 year warranty is less than $300.
[QUOTE=Nuzy] I guess I better go buy AVIA or DVE and start the hours upon hours of tweaking.[/QUOTE]
I suggest buying Avia AND DVE. Each has their strengths. I like Avia better for color adjustments and DVE better for black levels. Also - If you have not ever tuned your Audio with a SPL meter - these discs will help you get better sound quality from your system (assuming you have seperate AV receiver and 5.1 speakers).
I have the Pio920 (viewing from 9ft), matched it up with a 59Avi player - could not be more pleased. Will post settings later.
[QUOTE=Nuzy]Checked it tonight and yes, I do have 5 color temp settings, plus an option to manually set the color temp. I suppose this is great if I ever spend the money to have it professionally calibrated, but I don't know how much good it will do a probie like me. As it is, there are more settings to mess with on this thing than I know what to do with! I guess I better go buy AVIA or DVE and start the hours upon hours of tweaking.[/QUOTE]
Cool. I wonder how much it cost to buy a media center.
Jithtproject
06-18-05, 11:32 AM
Before I check connections in the back of my plasma, how loud are your speakers that came with 5050? Mine seems to have very low volume even on 39/40 setting. So I have to keep my HT system on even to watch news. With my previous crt tv, it was ok. I never needed to turn system on to watch news.
Thanks.
My plasma speakers are pretty loud. If I'm watching normal tv, I rarely go above 20. Watching a movie at 35 or 40 is very loud. My room is around 14' X 15'. Hopefully it's just a setting or cable hook up issue.
tenholde
06-18-05, 12:37 PM
[QUOTE=spingrinder]How many 4350 owners have "5050" or other 50" 'itis?
Do you now wish that you had the larger set or do you find the 43 to be sufficient?[/QUOTE]
I am very happy with my 4350 vs. 5050 -- I have a fairly small viewing room.
Ed Tenholder
I was going to Costco today to buy the Pioneer 5050, but I called to make sure they had it and they said it was model #5040 instead of 5050. Can anyone tell what the difference is between the two??
Jay in NC
Eddiemc
06-18-05, 03:38 PM
I have the Costco 5040 and am very happy with my choice. Built in Jan 05.
I don't know what the difference is regarding the 5050, someone had earlier mentioned something about the black level.
billjets
06-18-05, 03:47 PM
I just hooked up my HD comcast Motorola 6400 box via DVI to my 503CMX. My display though is almost all green with very little color. Anyone know how to adjust this problem? If I use component, everything looks stunning. Appreciate any help....
Solderbot
06-18-05, 04:52 PM
[QUOTE=pstrisik]
One thing that shook me a bit was moving text on the BB HD loop. It had jaggies and lag much worse than any of the other HD sets. Naturally, I couldn't get into the settings, so I really don't know what's what. Does anyone who has this set notice this with moving text or fast motion in general?
Thanks.[/QUOTE]
I witnessed the exact same jaggy moving text on the same panel at my local BB. I concluded that it was not the panel that was introducing this effect, it was the feed. I would not worry. This panel looked excellent.
rentwist
06-18-05, 06:43 PM
the 5040 is last yrs. model. The 5050 has ACE3 color management as opposed to 5040's ACE 2. So the 5050 has better color detail as well as better" BLACK" levels. How's that for openers?
Thanks so much...I have controlled my want so far. I was ready to get in the truck and go buy it! I am glad I called first and also glad the guy mentioned the model #. I will definitely stay in control and wait to buy a current model. Another problem I have (may be wrong thread..sorry) is the distance from my media room the the tv location (about 50 ft). I will need a very long HDMI cable or maybe an extender. I read about an extender that uses (2) cat5 cables. Anyone know anything about this? Thanks again for all of your help. This site is the bomb!!
Jay
rentwist
06-18-05, 07:11 PM
Hey Jay, go to RAM Electronics, they are a forum sponsor. Great prices on Great cables. If they sell it, it'll work.
rentwist
06-18-05, 07:34 PM
Hey billjets, the dvi/hdmi is deactivated by default. You have to go into the home menu on plasma and activate it. I also think there are certain imputs you have to connect it to. I'm trying to use memory recall. I suffer from "CRS". ha,ha
pstrisik
06-18-05, 07:49 PM
Ok guys, I pulled the trigger! Just came home with a 4350 from BB. Love that it comes with a wall mount. Had to post first. I've got a cup of coffee to quickly review the manual and setup instructions. I'll get the basics going, we'll watch a DVD tonight, and I'll tweak all day tomorrow :D
rentwist
06-18-05, 08:03 PM
Peter, good luck on the quick read manual. Mine has like 80 pages. I read all, then work. Do that with everything. Hope it goes as fast as you think
Has anyone used the Gefen HDMI extenders that use 2 cat5 cables listed on Ram Electronics? I will need something like that for my situation. I already have 2 cat5 cables run from my media room to the tv position... so this would work if the quality is ok. I would hate to try and run another cable. The price is high for the extenders ($500), but the cost of another cable is also high. Anyone have any other ideas or info on this would be greatly appreciated.
Jay
Peter - congratulations on your new baby, I mean plasma. Let us know what you think once you get it operational. I ended up going out and getting an indoor Zenith Silver Sensor antenna for $40 just to catch some OTA HD signals. Surprisingly, it picked up just about my digital locals. I figured I could always return it if it didn't pull anything in. Enjoy!
Based on discussions I have had with multiple members of this thread I purchased two PDP 5050's that are now sitting on palets in the garage. (Thank you all for your responses!) I am planning differing applications for each unit based on its projected destination in the house. Project One is incorporating the first unit with an existing surrounding surround system. Has anyone wired the 5050's side speakers to function as center channel speakers in surround mode? Any comments positive or negative would be appreciated before I jump in.
mlmd
billjets
06-18-05, 11:18 PM
Anyone feel like sharing their settings? I'm just curious if I am in the ballpark. Thanks..
Mine via Avia:
Contrast= +2
Brightness= -4
Color= +3
Tint= +3
Sharpness= -5
Albert C. Lee
06-18-05, 11:21 PM
[QUOTE=mlmd]Based on discussions I have had with multiple members of this thread I purchased two PDP 5050's that are now sitting on palets in the garage. (Thank you all for your responses!)[/QUOTE]
If you have a digital camera, would you mind sharing the pics (and maybe the measurements) of the packed 5050 on the pallet? I'm trying to determine the size of the delivery that's coming.
Has anyone wired the 5050's side speakers to function as center channel speakers in surround mode? Any comments positive or negative would be appreciated before I jump in.
This is an interesting project! Well, as far as I can tell the speakers are 8 ohm speakers.... I don't see any harm in driving both speakers from the same center channel source, provided you don't overpower it.
I am getting ready to take the plunge and order the Pio 5050, but my space is only 58 1/2" wide and I want to make sure it will fit. Anyone know the exact width with the speakers on. The 50" width in the specs must be without speakers. As usual...thanks in advance. You guys are the best!
Jay in NC
W/speakers attached, it's 57 1/2" wide.
pstrisik
06-19-05, 11:58 AM
[QUOTE=rentwist]Peter, good luck on the quick read manual. Mine has like 80 pages. I read all, then work. Do that with everything. Hope it goes as fast as you think[/QUOTE]
I just skimmed to manual to make sure there wasn't anything in particular I needed to pay attention to in setup. It took about an hour to unpack, setup the stand, mount the screen on it, and make initial connections to cable box (dvi to hdmi) and dvd (component).
We watched Code 46 then some cable. The only HD we get is TNT and saw a bit of Antonio Banderos in "Desperado". I played a bit with AV mode a couple of times during the movie. Overall detail and color was excellent with the DVD in a non progressive scan player over component. My concern about black level is still there after this movie. Dark scenes are nowhere near as striking as bright colorful scenes. During the credits, the black background was clearly gray. I do have DNE on.
TNT HD was stunning. Since the portion of Desperado that we watched was not dark, I never thought about it. The detail in the characters' eyes and sweat, was incredible!
Unfortunately, I have a bit of a loose connection the white system cables. I think it is actually the jack on the screen. If it moves, I get red/white snow.
[QUOTE=pstrisik]I just skimmed to manual to make sure there wasn't anything in particular I needed to pay attention to in setup. It took about an hour to unpack, setup the stand, mount the screen on it, and make initial connections to cable box (dvi to hdmi) and dvd (component).
We watched Code 46 then some cable. The only HD we get is TNT and saw a bit of Antonio Banderos in "Desperado". I played a bit with AV mode a couple of times during the movie. Overall detail and color was excellent with the DVD in a non progressive scan player over component. My concern about black level is still there after this movie. Dark scenes are nowhere near as striking as bright colorful scenes. During the credits, the black background was clearly gray. I do have DNE on.
TNT HD was stunning. Since the portion of Desperado that we watched was not dark, I never thought about it. The detail in the characters' eyes and sweat, was incredible!
Unfortunately, I have a bit of a loose connection the white system cables. I think it is actually the jack on the screen. If it moves, I get red/white snow.[/QUOTE]
What are your current settings?
pstrisik
06-19-05, 12:30 PM
[QUOTE=D-Nice]What are your current settings?[/QUOTE]
Watching DVD, I mostly used "standard". Since I am tweaking a bit, I don't have and stable settings in "user" to report yet. The "pro" switches (MPEG NR, CTI, DRE) are on and Pure Cinema, DNR, and Color Temp are all in their middle modes. I'd love to get recommedations for settings to enhance the dark scenes as much as possible.
mooneydriver
06-19-05, 12:36 PM
The "DRE" mafia will pounce on me for this, but I don't find DRE useful and I keep it off. Pioneer PDPs do not produce deep, rich, squid-ink blacks, period. That is an inherent design limitation. DRE does not magically produce deeper blacks on a panel that wasn't designed to produce deep blacks. As far as I can tell, what DRE does is to decompress the luma (gray level) information so that the luma values in the midrange are pushed toward either end (white or black). The net result is *appearance* of higher contrast (and possibly richer gradations in near-black and near-white zones) at the expense of midrange detail. Unfortunately, this happens at the expense of midrange information such as skin tones, etc. That simply does not work for me.
On the other hand, the DRE option might work better for those who don't care much about accuracy of midrange information (e.g., game players, people who use the PDP as computer displays, people who watch a lot of movies with dark scenes (e.g., horror flicks) or animation, people who mainly watch analog NTSC broadcasts (where it's impossible to get skin tones right anyway), etc.
What I do instead is to set the black level (brightness) correctly using DVE. This gives me the deepest black the PDP can produce. Currently, it's at +11 on my 5050. I set the white level (contrast) at 14. Color is -16, tint 0, sharpness -2. DRE is off! Color temperature is Low. Basically, I start with DVE and use my eyeballs to make fine adjustments. I find that I get incredibly beautiful, lifelike images (outdoor scenes, people, etc.) with these settings. As people sometimes say, a properly set Pioneer PDP creates the illusion of looking out the window -- I only wish the view out my own window was nearly as good :-)
[QUOTE=pstrisik]Watching DVD, I mostly used "standard". Since I am tweaking a bit, I don't have and stable settings in "user" to report yet. The "pro" switches (MPEG NR, CTI, DRE) are on and Pure Cinema, DNR, and Color Temp are all in their middle modes. I'd love to get recommedations for settings to enhance the dark scenes as much as possible.[/QUOTE]
Try these settings:
Picture Settings
Picture Mode: User
Contrast: 25
Brightness: +2
Color: -15
Tint: 0
Sharpness: -1
Pro Adjust
Pure Cinema: Std (720p) Adv (480i and 1080i)
Color Temp: Low
MPEG NR: On
DNR: Low
CTI: Off
DRE: On
pstrisik
06-19-05, 03:39 PM
Thanks Mooneydriver and D-Nice for settings to try. TNTHD has Law and Order on all day, so it's a pretty good test of darker seens that seem to have trouble on the PIO. Detail gets lost. While each of your settings help various aspects of the display, it's that dark detail that they don't seem to help.
I will sit more with this set and watch more movies and see how I adapt and feel in a couple of weeks. It may be that I will have to be one of those Panny fanboys after all. We shall see.
[QUOTE=pstrisik]Thanks Mooneydriver and D-Nice for settings to try. TNTHD has Law and Order on all day, so it's a pretty good test of darker seens that seem to have trouble on the PIO. Detail gets lost. While each of your settings help various aspects of the display, it's that dark detail that they don't seem to help.
I will sit more with this set and watch more movies and see how I adapt and feel in a couple of weeks. It may be that I will have to be one of those Panny fanboys after all. We shall see.[/QUOTE]
You have to remember that the Law and Order shows playing on TNT are a mix of HD and 480i upconverts. When TNT shows those stretched upconverts, nothing is going to pull detail out of the picture... dark or bright scenes. Also, what type of DVD player are you using?
pstrisik
06-19-05, 06:50 PM
[QUOTE=D-Nice]You have to remember that the Law and Order shows playing on TNT are a mix of HD and 480i upconverts. When TNT shows those stretched upconverts, nothing is going to pull detail out of the picture... dark or bright scenes. Also, what type of DVD player are you using?[/QUOTE]
Re: Law and Order... I'll do more dvd watching tonight to get a better sense of the suggested settings. My player is a 2000 Pio DV C-503. Pretty standard player from a few years ago. Component out, no progressive scan.
Haven't figured out how to merge pictures with this thread. PDP 5050 carton on palet is 64" long, 51" high and 23" deep and weighs about 200#.
mlmd
Here are my Pio920 settings for HD content:
AV User
Contrast 30
Brightness +5
Color -3
Tint 0
Sharpness -1
______________
Pure Cinema off
Color temp Mid
Mpeg Mid
DNR off
CTI off
DRE Mid
Albert C. Lee
06-19-05, 08:28 PM
[QUOTE=mlmd]Haven't figured out how to merge pictures with this thread. PDP 5050 carton on palet is 64" long, 51" high and 23" deep and weighs about 200#.[/QUOTE]
Gah! That's HUGE! You can make attachments to your post ... if they're too big, send me a PM and I'll give you my email. I'll host the images.
[QUOTE=Albert C. Lee]Gah! That's HUGE! You can make attachments to your post ... if they're too big, send me a PM and I'll give you my email. I'll host the images.[/QUOTE]
i wonder if the carton on the palet will fit through my front door...without unpacking them into the separate boxes
i will be interested to see a photo of this also... as i'm ordering my 5050HD tomorrow! :D
You will need/want to unpack the pallet before moving the parts inside. I picked mine up in a minivan and needed to unpack and check everything for damage before signing for it. It is suggested that you do the same when accepting a delivery. The display box is still huge, but manageable with two people.
[QUOTE=pstrisik]Re: Law and Order... I'll do more dvd watching tonight to get a better sense of the suggested settings. My player is a 2000 Pio DV C-503. Pretty standard player from a few years ago. Component out, no progressive scan.[/QUOTE]
I must have been sleep typing yesterday. I gave you my settings for HDTV and not a dvd player...my bad. Try these....
Picture Settings
Picture Mode: User
Contrast: 29
Brightness: -1 or +1
Color: -5
Tint: -2
Sharpness: -1
Pro Adjust
Pure Cinema: Std
Color Temp: Low
MPEG NR: On
DNR: Low
CTI: Off
DRE: On
mooneydriver
06-20-05, 09:18 PM
[QUOTE=pstrisik]I will sit more with this set and watch more movies and see how I adapt and feel in a couple of weeks. It may be that I will have to be one of those Panny fanboys after all. We shall see.[/QUOTE]
Peter:
I know you're not making this up and that you're not perfectly happy with the display. For whatever it's worth, your experience / initial reactions are completely contradictory to mine. After having seen this PDP in numerous showrooms, I was still amazed by the picture quality from the moment I set it up. My wife, who is not a techno-fan by any means, does not want to pry her eyes off of it.
I'm sure you know that the TV picture is only as good as the signal source. A good cable (or DVD) signal can do wonders. Personally, my only disappointment is with the DVD picture, and I know that it's a function of the DVD player and not the display.
So, instead of letting you court with the dark side (Panasonic), let's try to troubleshoot the situation. What is your signal source, say, for TNT HD? What other HD channels do you get? How's the HD signal source connected to the PDP?
leanneshusband
06-20-05, 10:00 PM
Hi folks, pulled the trigger on the PDP424MV couple of days ago, don't watch enough HDTV to spring for the extra bucks, EDTV is fine with me.
TVA talked me away from the panny, so eager to get my mitts on it next Monday.
Where do I get these 2 discs you guys talk about to calibrate the set? Sounds like a worthwhile aquisition...
Any other info a neophite might need is appreciated, and I DID read the FAQs.
TIA for the assistance!
T2starr
06-20-05, 10:15 PM
[QUOTE=pstrisik]Well I talked to TVA today and went to Best Buy about the 4350. I came within a hair of buying it today and chickened out. BB's sale continues through tomorrow. I shouldn't worry so much since BB will take it back if I'm not happy with it, but it's a big deal to take this home and back again.
One thing that shook me a bit was moving text on the BB HD loop. It had jaggies and lag much worse than any of the other HD sets. Naturally, I couldn't get into the settings, so I really don't know what's what. Does anyone who has this set notice this with moving text or fast motion in general?
Thanks.[/QUOTE]
I saw a similar artifact from a Panasonic model in best buy. Very irritating, but you couldn't see it on the sony/samsung/toshiba that were next to it.
Albert C. Lee
06-20-05, 10:21 PM
Thanks to mlmd for taking the pics of the 5050HD (2 of them!) as they are shipped.
http://www.leesoft.com/temp/5050-1.jpg
http://www.leesoft.com/temp/5050-2.jpg
Looks like a real beast!
pstrisik
06-20-05, 10:53 PM
[QUOTE=mooneydriver]Peter:
I know you're not making this up and that you're not perfectly happy with the display. For whatever it's worth, your experience / initial reactions are completely contradictory to mine. After having seen this PDP in numerous showrooms, I was still amazed by the picture quality from the moment I set it up. My wife, who is not a techno-fan by any means, does not want to pry her eyes off of it.
I'm sure you know that the TV picture is only as good as the signal source. A good cable (or DVD) signal can do wonders. Personally, my only disappointment is with the DVD picture, and I know that it's a function of the DVD player and not the display.
So, instead of letting you court with the dark side (Panasonic), let's try to troubleshoot the situation. What is your signal source, say, for TNT HD? What other HD channels do you get? How's the HD signal source connected to the PDP?[/QUOTE]
Hi mooneydriver,
Thanks for your patience. For the record, I do think that many aspects of the PIO PQ are outstanding. It is only the lack of dark detail and, to a lesser degree, the black level that I'm not yet comfortable with. Color and brighter scene detail is impressive.
Here's my equipment: DVD is a 2000 model Pio with component out. No progressive scan. Using lower end monster component cables. Cable is through a Motorola 6412 STB with DVI out. I have a Monster DVI to HDMI adaptor and an AR HDMI cable. The cables are all mid level and shouldn't be an issue. I haven't subscribed to the HD package, so the only HD station I'm getting is TNT.
I do have a sub $100 Toshiba DVD player that is about a year old if you think that might make a difference. I could also try component from the STB for experimentation.
What do you think?
mooneydriver
06-20-05, 11:31 PM
Your DVD player situation is similar to mine. I have a 2002 Harman Kardon DVD player -- not really the state-of-the-art today. It is progressive-capable, but I found the image to be better using the interlaced output (480i) from the DVD player and letting the Pioneer do the deinterlacing and scaling. At this point, the only thing you can do with the DVD player is to try DVE or Avia for fine-tuning the picture settings on the TV.
I also have a 6412 connected via DVI. No, don't even bother with the component out. DVI->HDMI is the only way to go. This one is obvious, but let's rule it out: I set my 6412 for 720p output for HD (1080i is almost equally good), and 480i for non-HD signals. You might want to switch between 1080i and 720p to see if one looks better than the other.
So, where is "somewhere near Alaska"? If you have a HD package available on your cable service, it's the best $10/month you can spend! There is a lot of great HD programming on cable (well, at least until you've seen them all at least once :-)). We even watch the insect documentaries now!
leanneshusband
06-20-05, 11:56 PM
I can concur on the progressive scan, several other threads have cautioned about the use of a non progressive scan player and pix quality issues!
Even the $14 dvd player I picked up at CompUsa 2 weeks ago is progressive scan, but the $200 dvd/vcr panny of 1.5 yrs ago is not. Big difference on my current 32" sony, will be unbearable on the new plasma....
pstrisik
06-21-05, 12:45 AM
[QUOTE=mooneydriver]I also have a 6412 connected via DVI. No, don't even bother with the component out. DVI->HDMI is the only way to go. This one is obvious, but let's rule it out: I set my 6412 for 720p output for HD (1080i is almost equally good), and 480i for non-HD signals. You might want to switch between 1080i and 720p to see if one looks better than the other.
So, where is "somewhere near Alaska"? If you have a HD package available on your cable service, it's the best $10/month you can spend! There is a lot of great HD programming on cable (well, at least until you've seen them all at least once :-)). We even watch the insect documentaries now![/QUOTE]
I am setting the 6412 to 1080i/480i and have tried both 1080i and 720p. I couldn't tell any difference.
"Somewhere near Alaska" means Anchorage. It goes by various names like pseudo Alaska, Los Anchorage, near Alaska. They say there is only one good thing about Anchorage. It's about 20 minutes from Alaska. That's cuz were kind of citified by AK standards. Being interested in a plasma is a prime example!
Anyway... I can get the HD package, but only if I sign up for the premium package first (SHO, HBO, etc.). I think that's about $30 more, then $10 more for HD. I do believe it's a bit more expensive up here, no?
So... it may pay off to get a newer progressive scan DVD. I would still keep the PIO since it is carousel and good for CDs.
I have gotten a bit more comfortable with the set in the last couple of hours. I've watched more cable and some of Fight Club. So far, I've settled on the following:
Picture Settings
Picture Mode: User
Contrast: 30
Brightness: +4
Color: -10
Tint: 0
Sharpness: -1
Pro Adjust
Pure Cinema: Std
Color Temp: Low
MPEG NR: On
DNR: Low
CTI: Off
DRE: On
I also have to say that I am impressed with the stretch modes. Cinema really works for me for SD 4:3. Looks very natural and fills the screen.
Patrick TX
06-21-05, 02:12 PM
New 5050HD owner! PDP was delivered the day after we moved in to our new home. It is absolutely STUNNING! I'm feeding it with a Pioneer Elite DV59AVI DVD, and am picking up all the HD locals with a Zenith Silver Sensor. I am really amazed at how the blacks look (great). I have no buzz as well. I was super pleased with Doug at satsound.com as well, class act.
Patrick-
Heavy congrats on the new addition. I am hoping to join you as a fellow 5050 "new parent" before long.
Please post updates in this thread as you spend time with the set.
Albert C. Lee
06-21-05, 02:49 PM
[QUOTE=Patrick TX]I'm feeding it with a Pioneer Elite DV59AVI DVD[/QUOTE]
Great to hear that it's a good match! I'm planning on doing the same. Are you using HDMI or feeding it through component?
My 3 day delivery window for my unit starts tomorrow... TVAuthority still claims I should be getting a call from the freight company soon to schedule delivery... a little antsy now, since I doubt I'll get a call from the freight company today at this point.
neyugnt
06-21-05, 03:03 PM
Welp, after 4 years of glorious HD from my Sony HD RPTV, the wife and I decided it was finally time to make make the leap to "the show". Got a PRO-1120 last week and have been oogling over it ever since.
I'm feeding it with a Motorola HD-DVR (Cox Cable) and Sony HDMI DVD Player. So far, it's been a beauty.
Question, does anyone notice a weird lip-synch issue between the video and audio? The video seems to be "ahead" of the audio at times. I'm going to investigate this further, but I'm noticing it from my cable feed (could be the DVR?). My DVD audio goes straight to a denon receiver, which seems to be fine. If no one has issues, I might have to just try the audio from the dvd into the 1120 receiver unit...
-T
Albert C. Lee
06-21-05, 03:06 PM
[QUOTE=neyugnt]Question, does anyone notice a weird lip-synch issue between the video and audio? The video seems to be "ahead" of the audio at times. I'm going to investigate this further, but I'm noticing it from my cable feed (could be the DVR?).[/QUOTE]
You need to feed both the video and audio from your DVR to your TV, otherwise the audio will never sync up... DVRs are usually up to 2 seconds behind real-time, so if you're feeding your audio straight, your audio will be ahead of your video.
I realize this may be the wrong place for this question, but bear with me, please. I am expecting delivery of a 4350 next week, and am wondering what kind of sound I will get just using the two speakers that come with the unit, and the Pioneer wireless rear speaker, and an old subwoofer. Should I invest in a receiver, and additional speakers to get a better surround sound?
Albert C. Lee
06-21-05, 03:33 PM
[QUOTE=begwer]I realize this may be the wrong place for this question, but bear with me, please. I am expecting delivery of a 4350 next week, and am wondering what kind of sound I will get just using the two speakers that come with the unit, and the Pioneer wireless rear speaker, and an old subwoofer. Should I invest in a receiver, and additional speakers to get a better surround sound?[/QUOTE]
As a broad generalization, I've rarely found a TV speaker to be beyond "ok"... some might even approach "good", but usually it's not enough for a great home theater.
That said, it's also a matter of perspective...
If you're used to horrible and average speakers, I think you'll find that the Pioneer speakers are decent for what they are. However, there's no way they'd hold a candle to even the cheapest "home-theater-in-a-box" setups.
That said, here is a word of warning to everyone...
Just remember, home audio, home theater and hi-fi in general is a slippery road to be traveling on. Set some realistic expectations, and don't be talked into auditioning something outside your budget so you don't disappoint yourself. Auditioning a pair of $35k Avalon Eidolon Diamond speakers is going to make those bookshelf speakers you spent $800 on sound like garbage. Likewise, you can stare at a primo Runco projector with a $20k image processor, and suddenly that nice plasma you just bought looks a little off. You can spend a ton of money really quickly getting that home theater just right... so be careful!
mooneydriver
06-21-05, 04:03 PM
[QUOTE=neyugnt]Question, does anyone notice a weird lip-synch issue between the video and audio? The video seems to be "ahead" of the audio at times. I'm going to investigate this further, but I'm noticing it from my cable feed (could be the DVR?). My DVD audio goes straight to a denon receiver, which seems to be fine. If no one has issues, I might have to just try the audio from the dvd into the 1120 receiver unit...
-T[/QUOTE]
The way I understand it, it's not a problem inherent to DVRs. DVRs delay audio as well as video as they write the incoming data stream to the hard drive and then read and decode it. Once the audio and video data leave the DVR, the audio stream that goes to the receiver requires little processing (only surround modes, etc.) whereas the video signal that goes to the TV requires a lot of processing (motion-adaptive deinterlacing, scaling, etc.) For example, motion-adaptive deinterlacing delays the video signal for a few frames so that it can do a "look-ahead". A three frame video delay would be about 100 msecs of mismatch, and that could easily give the appearance of bad lip-synch (unless you're watching Ashlee Simpson, in which case you don't have to adjust your TV -- it's the source that's to blame).
The ultimate solution is to get a receiver that has a lip-synch feature. These receivers can delay the audio to match the video (for example, Denon's AVR-635 and above). I do notice lip-synch issues from time to time as well, but it's not bad enough to force me to go out and get a new receiver right away. This whole home-theater thing is a massive money pit!
neyugnt
06-21-05, 04:04 PM
[QUOTE=Albert C. Lee]You need to feed both the video and audio from your DVR to your TV, otherwise the audio will never sync up... DVRs are usually up to 2 seconds behind real-time, so if you're feeding your audio straight, your audio will be ahead of your video.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, that's the weird thing. For the dvr, I've got the audio and video going straight from the box to the 1120 receiver. Video via component (haven't bought a DVI->HDMI cable yet) and audio via the regular red/white stereo RCA jacks.
I'll have to do some more investigating... :(
-T
pstrisik
06-21-05, 07:05 PM
[QUOTE=begwer]I realize this may be the wrong place for this question, but bear with me, please. I am expecting delivery of a 4350 next week, and am wondering what kind of sound I will get just using the two speakers that come with the unit, and the Pioneer wireless rear speaker, and an old subwoofer. Should I invest in a receiver, and additional speakers to get a better surround sound?[/QUOTE]There is no comparison between surround sound and stereo. Even with moderate quality equipment, having the sound all around you increases the "immersive experience" people talk about with movies. If you get access to a system, either a friend's or in a store, try watching the opening scenes of Master and Commander, and you will swear you are on that ship!
pstrisik
06-21-05, 07:06 PM
[QUOTE=mooneydriver]The way I understand it, it's not a problem inherent to DVRs. DVRs delay audio as well as video as they write the incoming data stream to the hard drive and then read and decode it. Once the audio and video data leave the DVR, the audio stream that goes to the receiver requires little processing (only surround modes, etc.) whereas the video signal that goes to the TV requires a lot of processing (motion-adaptive deinterlacing, scaling, etc.) For example, motion-adaptive deinterlacing delays the video signal for a few frames so that it can do a "look-ahead". A three frame video delay would be about 100 msecs of mismatch, and that could easily give the appearance of bad lip-synch (unless you're watching Ashlee Simpson, in which case you don't have to adjust your TV -- it's the source that's to blame).
The ultimate solution is to get a receiver that has a lip-synch feature. These receivers can delay the audio to match the video (for example, Denon's AVR-635 and above). I do notice lip-synch issues from time to time as well, but it's not bad enough to force me to go out and get a new receiver right away. This whole home-theater thing is a massive money pit![/QUOTE]
Good info! Would it also work to have the audio go to the TV then connect the TV's audio out to the receiver? Don't know if the TV would help keep it synced up.
rentwist
06-21-05, 08:15 PM
Hi guys. Been away for a couple days. This thread is really moving! I also notice the "lip-sinc" issue every now and then. I had a weird thing happen. I bought a 5050 also. Went to set it up, have a 5050 media receiver, and a ELITE plasma display. Guess my warrantee just doubled, he he. Seriously, I sit 7' from screen, on SD my settings are really dialed down. My hdmi cable arrives tomorrow. Expecting HD to knock me out. Those Pio speakers are a really good addition to my 6.1 home system. I have a reg dvd and a new in box progressive scan dvd. Is there an advantage? Thanks, ray
[QUOTE=rentwist]Hi guys. Been away for a couple days. This thread is really moving! I also notice the "lip-sinc" issue every now and then. I had a weird thing happen. I bought a 5050 also. Went to set it up, have a 5050 media receiver, and a ELITE plasma display. Guess my warrantee just doubled, he he. Seriously, I sit 7' from screen, on SD my settings are really dialed down. My hdmi cable arrives tomorrow. Expecting HD to knock me out. Those Pio speakers are a really good addition to my 6.1 home system. I have a reg dvd and a new in box progressive scan dvd. Is there an advantage? Thanks, ray[/QUOTE]
I recommend you get a Pioneer 59avi, Denon 2910, Denon 3910, or ....the great Denon 5910. I would not go "cheap" and get a regular dvd player as it is half of the equation for "good picture quality". I personally have a Denon 3910 connected to my 5050 and a Denon 2910 connected to my 4350.
Thinking about buying the 5050 from TVA or Sat&Sound. I have seen some good posts about both. Price is comparable, so does anyone have a clear choice between these dealers, or am I safe with either? I need to replace my Dell plasma that has the infamous electrical buzz problem.
In reference to the DVD player question: you should definitely get a new player with progressive scan and HDMI. I can’t comment on the high end units but I did try a Toshiba 5980 up-convert player but I had poor color reproduction like a few other members. I went with the new Panasonic S77 and I am happy with it since it was only a couple hundred and works fine. In my experience the up-convert will cause some macro blocking in certain movies (but you can always turn it off) and don’t expect a lot of difference with quality DVDs. The up-convert makes the most difference in older, poorly transferred DVDs. It seems like the S77 is a good cheap alternative while we wait for HD-DVD.
As for TV speakers vs. surround sound: I would equate the question to comparing black and white TV to color.
yexel - I believe you would be well served by either. I went with TVA and was very happy with the ordering and delivery process, but so far have been less than impressed by the responsiveness of my after sale support (nothing terribly major, but having a hard time getting the sales person to get back with me). Who knows, maybe my sales guy is out of town or on vacation or something. Comparatively, I paid a little bit more for that after sale support and don't believe I'm getting my money out of it yet. Either way, both are very good.
I have the S77 with my 5050/Elite set and I second it as a great budget alternative between now and HD-DVD. I would have preferred the Pio 59avi, but it was out of my price range.
Nuzy
neiltvauthority
06-21-05, 11:56 PM
Since this is an owners thread, I guess I'm preaching to the choir, but as a reseller of many brands of plasma displays, I've always been partial to the Pioneer plasmas. Although the black levels of the Panasonic models are definitely nice, I've always appreciated the color saturation on the Pioneer models much more.
We've got a Pioneer PDP5050HD in our new store in Santa Monica, CA and it looks awesome. We're feeding it HD through a Hughes HR10-250 DirecTV TIVO via HDMI, and DVD via Component, and it rocks.
Kirk@TVAuthority
06-21-05, 11:58 PM
Nuzy- Sorry to hear one of my staff isn't getting back to you. Let me know what you need and I'll personally take care of it. Rest assured it will also be a topic in our next meeting :)
neiltvauthority
06-21-05, 11:58 PM
[QUOTE=Nuzy]yexel - I believe you would be well served by either. I went with TVA and was very happy with the ordering and delivery process, but so far have been less than impressed by the responsiveness of my after sale support (nothing terribly major, but having a hard time getting the sales person to get back with me). Who knows, maybe my sales guy is out of town or on vacation or something. Comparatively, I paid a little bit more for that after sale support and don't believe I'm getting my money out of it yet. Either way, both are very good.
I have the S77 with my 5050/Elite set and I second it as a great budget alternative between now and HD-DVD. I would have preferred the Pio 59avi, but it was out of my price range.
Nuzy[/QUOTE]
Nuzy, I took the liberty of looking up your sales rep, and I just wanted to let you know that Kin has been out sick this week. I'm not sure if he'll make it into work tomorrow, so if you need anything call his sales manager, Kirk Punches at (888) 286-5353, ext 510 or by email at kirk@tvauthority.com. He'll take good care of you!
Thanks for the business Nuzy.
neiltvauthority
06-21-05, 11:59 PM
LOL -- that was unplanned. : )
HazChem
06-22-05, 12:15 AM
So that is why I haven't heard from Kin regarding my buzz issue!! I sent you a PM Kirk.
So far, I am very pleased with my 5050 and hope that we can learn a lot from each other on this thread.
Albert C. Lee
06-22-05, 12:20 AM
Glad to see TVAuthority is watching this thread with great interest! Makes me feel good that I bought from Aaron Snell. Here's to hoping I get a call from the freight company tomorrow so I can schedule delivery!
Kirk@TVAuthority
06-22-05, 12:27 AM
HazChem - I responded back to your PM.
Albert- Aaron will be in touch with you tomorrow regarding your TV delivery schedule. He has a couple of options for you -he has the details (i don't) so I'll let him contact you in the morning.
here's a quick question for you 5050 owners...
im ordering up a 5050 in two weeks and mounting above the fireplace with a Sanus VMSA. Are the mounting holes on the back pretty much centered on the panel ?
I'd like to install the mount ahead of time but i want to make sure my height is correct, centered between the mantel and ceiling.
thanks for any insight you can give me ;)
Neil, Kirk - thanks for following up with me. As I mentioned, I figured something must have been up since my dealings with Kin have been outstanding so far. Perhaps some kind of out-of-office/sick notice would be in order when folks are out - that would have precluded me from even mentioning it. I am very comforted knowing that you guys are looking out for your customers like this! Well done - you guys are a class act! Hope Kin gets to feeling better. I look forward to dealing with you again in the future. Kirk - I may give you a call later today.
Thanks again!
Nuzy
Sonet.MD
06-22-05, 11:18 AM
I've had my 4350 for 3 weeks and I'm enjoying my new TV. I have a question regarding calibration. After I do an adjustment w/dvd player what's the best way to adjust settings to my HDTV input. Would it be simular?...just fine tuning by what I see?
Also, what DVD players are XX50 owners using? I currently have a 2910 and will be A-B'ing with a 2900 this weekend. I'm not positve I will need an HDMI upconverting player with this set. I would think the conversion to 720 from the Pio would be good. I have read about the 2900's benifits over the 2910 so I am going to test it for myself. Anyone else try something like this? Any recommendations on DVD's to use? I know these are questions that are handled in the DVD thread but I wanted to hear from Pio XX50 users.
One last question. I need to reconfigure my stand setup. Does anyone use the long brackets for their stand? I may place my center speaker beneath the set. It appears that it would sit 4" higher w/the long brackets. Just thought I'd ask before I disassemble everything and find there's not enough room.
Thanks for starting this thread! I'm glad I found this very informative forum!
Jeff
mooneydriver
06-22-05, 12:33 PM
[QUOTE=MNbri]im ordering up a 5050 in two weeks and mounting above the fireplace with a Sanus VMSA. Are the mounting holes on the back pretty much centered on the panel ?
[/QUOTE]
Yes, pretty much. There are six mounting holes on the back of the panel, 3 on the left and 3 on the right. They are located 15" in from the left and right edges.
The panel is 29" high. The bottom hole is 8.5" from the bottom edge and the top hole is 8.5" from the top edge. The middle one is right in the middle of the other two.
Albert C. Lee
06-22-05, 12:50 PM
[QUOTE=Kirk@TVAuthority]Albert- Aaron will be in touch with you tomorrow regarding your TV delivery schedule. He has a couple of options for you -he has the details (i don't) so I'll let him contact you in the morning.[/QUOTE]
Got the call from Aaron... looks like delivery will be tomorrow! TVAuthority rocks!
jfelbab
06-22-05, 12:59 PM
[QUOTE=Sonet.MD]I've had my 4350 for 3 weeks and I'm enjoying my new TV. I have a question regarding calibration. After I do an adjustment w/dvd player what's the best way to adjust settings to my HDTV input. Would it be simular?...just fine tuning by what I see?
Also, what DVD players are XX50 owners using? I currently have a 2910 and will be A-B'ing with a 2900 this weekend. I'm not positve I will need an HDMI upconverting player with this set. I would think the conversion to 720 from the Pio would be good. I have read about the 2900's benifits over the 2910 so I am going to test it for myself. Anyone else try something like this? Any recommendations on DVD's to use? I know these are questions that are handled in the DVD thread but I wanted to hear from Pio XX50 users.
One last question. I need to reconfigure my stand setup. Does anyone use the long brackets for their stand? I may place my center speaker beneath the set. It appears that it would sit 4" higher w/the long brackets. Just thought I'd ask before I disassemble everything and find there's not enough room.
Thanks for starting this thread! I'm glad I found this very informative forum!
Jeff[/QUOTE]
I'd caution you to take it down from the "torch" mode supplied by the manufacturer to avoid burn-in issues. Even so there is still some concern. When watching SD broadcasts in 4x3 mode you might want to stretch the image to avoid the grey bars from leaving noticeable images on HD. My set is 10 weeks old and has started to exhibit this already. There is an option to have the grey bars vary in brightness along with the SD program material but it is still not effective at elimination of the burn-in.
I recently upgraded to a Toshiba SD-5980 DVD player. It has HDMI output and comes with the HDMI cable and your Pio has two HDMI inputs so you can get the advantages of HDMI.
THe Toshiba is a great player for the price, IMO.
[QUOTE=mooneydriver]Yes, pretty much. There are six mounting holes on the back of the panel, 3 on the left and 3 on the right. They are located 15" in from the left and right edges.
The panel is 29" high. The bottom hole is 8.5" from the bottom edge and the top hole is 8.5" from the top edge. The middle one is right in the middle of the other two.[/QUOTE]
measurements even ! thanks.
pstrisik
06-22-05, 02:57 PM
I tried using ANT A for a coax connection to the cable box (Moto 6412). It didn't display any station. So I scanned channels and got all sorts of wierd ones with decimal places (eg. 42.012). The only cable channels that were picked up were the ones I can get without the cable box. Am I doing something wrong here? Shouldn't I be able to run a coax from the STB out to the PIO ANT in and have all the stations and change channels using the cable box? Just like I had it with my old CRT?
For those about to say the quality is lousy that way. It would give me the ability to display the PIO's closed captions when needed.
Thanks
Albert C. Lee
06-22-05, 03:08 PM
Does the TV need to be on Channel 4 for coax to work? That's the way it worked on my old VCR.
Something doesn't sound right to me here...
On either the CRT or your new Pio, if you are changing the channels with the STB via coax, wouldn't your TV only see that one channel from the STB?
I would imagine that the only way to see all of them, would be to simply pass the signal straight trhu the STB.
mooneydriver
06-22-05, 05:55 PM
Hmmm ... my 6412 does NOT have a coax out. I wonder if yours is configured differently. I use a splitter to split the incoming cable signal and feed the 6412 and the TV off of the splitter.
Weird channels such as 64.012 are completely normal. The ancient NTSC channel numbering system was based on off-the-air broadcast frequencies. On a cable signal, that doesn't mean much since they own the entire bandwidth and place channels where they like. My cable company, Comcast, frequently moves things around in the cable frequency spectrum. There is a lookup table in the STB that maps the frequencies to channel numbers.
ATSC (digital off-air broadcast standard) is a more efficient broadcast scheme, so it can fit six digital channels (more if some of these are audio-only) into one channel previously occupied by an analog station. Hence they invented the dot-numbering scheme (subchannels). Subchannels don't mean anything to a STB. However, your TV doesn't have access to the proprietary mapping between cable frequencies and channels (unless it has a CableCard), so it shows them where they happen to fall on the ATSC channel map.
The more I learn about HDTV, the more I believe that community colleges should start offering degrees on this topic!
pstrisik
06-22-05, 06:29 PM
[QUOTE=mooneydriver]Hmmm ... my 6412 does NOT have a coax out. I wonder if yours is configured differently. I use a splitter to split the incoming cable signal and feed the 6412 and the TV off of the splitter.[/QUOTE]
I need to look at the setup back there again. I know I must be doing something stupid!
BTW, I picked up a Samsung HD850 upconverting DVD with HDMI out at BB today. (It's amazing how cheap this stuff gets sometimes). I'll do some experimenting and report results. I should be able to A/B between the Samsung w/HDMI and the older Pioneer DVD w/component. The Samsung is getting generally good reviews over in the DVD section, particularly quality for the money.
[QUOTE=Albert C. Lee]Great to hear that it's a good match! I'm planning on doing the same. Are you using HDMI or feeding it through component?[/QUOTE]
I am also using 59Avi - via HDMI - a great player.
We are looking to buy a 50" plasma and I (wife) have been doing research the last few weeks. Way too much information out there!!
Right now we are leaning towards the Panasonic PX50U or PX500U. We will also be buying surround sound for the family room. Basically we are starting from scratch. We will be going to an audio/video store to install and get it all running.
We also liked the pioneers we saw at BB/Magnolia. Why should I buy pioneer vs Pana?? I figured I would get the other side of the story here!
I have read that if you have a bright room Pioneer is better. Why?
The PX500U seems a fair buy at msrp $5,500. What are the reasons for the higher Pioneer prices?
I have been reading this forum for a week now ... the more I read ... the more questions I have!
Thanks
Brian Miller
06-22-05, 11:29 PM
[QUOTE=jfelbab]There is an option to have the grey bars vary in brightness along with the SD program material[/QUOTE]This option works very strange for me...instead of grey bars, I actually see part of the program material in the bar area, shown in black-and-white. It is extremely distracting and virtually unwatchable. Is this how it looks to you? Perhaps I need a firmware upgrade for my receiver box...
jfelbab
06-22-05, 11:38 PM
[QUOTE=Brian Miller]This option works very strange for me...instead of grey bars, I actually see part of the program material in the bar area, shown in black-and-white. It is extremely distracting and virtually unwatchable. Is this how it looks to you? Perhaps I need a firmware upgrade for my receiver box...[/QUOTE]
Not at all. The bars remain grey, usually a darker grey and the level of grey shifts slightly as the overall program brightness changes.
I have no idea what is happening on your set.
To enable this feature you go to the Home/Menu/option/Side Mask. Change the setting from fixed to auto.
[QUOTE=Brian Miller]This option works very strange for me...instead of grey bars, I actually see part of the program material in the bar area, shown in black-and-white. It is extremely distracting and virtually unwatchable. Is this how it looks to you? Perhaps I need a firmware upgrade for my receiver box...[/QUOTE]
I get a mix - sometimes solid grey bars, other times a "black and white" of the program as you described. I have the side mask set to auto. Even set to auto, sometimes I just have black bars. I'm wondering if it has anything to do with the signal or channel being watched. I haven't paid enough attention to it to find a pattern.
Nuzy
aptsguy
06-23-05, 11:54 AM
how does the performance of this model compare to the Elite 50" PRO-1010HD (Monitor)?
pstrisik
06-23-05, 11:57 AM
[QUOTE=pstrisik]I need to look at the setup back there again. I know I must be doing something stupid!
BTW, I picked up a Samsung HD850 upconverting DVD with HDMI out at BB today. (It's amazing how cheap this stuff gets sometimes). I'll do some experimenting and report results. I should be able to A/B between the Samsung w/HDMI and the older Pioneer DVD w/component. The Samsung is getting generally good reviews over in the DVD section, particularly quality for the money.[/QUOTE]
Regarding the cable connection... I don't know what I was thinking. There is no coax connection on the back of the 6412. The splitter was taking it from the wall. So I now have HDMI and Component going to inputs 3 & 4 in the Pio 4350. Split screen functions work great. There seems to be very little visual difference between these two inputs on my system. I am a bit peeved that I can't seem to use the set's closed captions with cable tv from a STB. I was doing it with my Sony CRT. Anyone have any insight?
I got the Samsung HD850 running fine upconverting to 1080i over HDMI. I leapfrogged over progressive scan from a 2000 model DVD player with 480i only to upconversion, so I don't know how much difference there is between progressive and upconversion. But the difference from 480i to upconversion is noticible. Black levels are better and the picture is sharper. The samsung allows an "RGB Extended" mode which supposedly allows the "Blacker than Black" part of the color range to be displayed (I've been reading over on the DVD player section).
I'm getting happier about the PQ :)
rentwist
06-23-05, 05:50 PM
[QUOTE=Chispa]We are looking to buy a 50" plasma and I (wife) have been doing research the last few weeks. Way too much information out there!!
Right now we are leaning towards the Panasonic PX50U or PX500U. We will also be buying surround sound for the family room. Basically we are starting from scratch. We will be going to an audio/video store to install and get it all running.
We also liked the pioneers we saw at BB/Magnolia. Why should I buy pioneer vs Pana?? I figured I would get the other side of the story here!
I have read that if you have a bright room Pioneer is better. Why?
The PX500U seems a fair buy at msrp $5,500. What are the reasons for the higher Pioneer prices?
I have been reading this forum for a week now ... the more I read ... the more questions I have!
Thanks[/QUOTE]
The Pio has quite a few more settings/adjustments. That means everything. Allowing me to tune my 50" beast to my exact/precise viewing style, day-in, day-out. Very nice PQ, even viewing SD. I think the Pio runs maybe $700 more. Chump change when comparing my plasma preference over the next 3,5,even 7 yrs. I know there are MORE reasons to own a Pio. I'll let my Pio bros list some other ones.
Sonet.MD
06-23-05, 06:10 PM
I asked this question earlier w/no bites. I'll try and rephrase it. I calibrated using DVE, which is naturally going to my DVD input. Are these settings appropriate for my HDTV input, or should it be further adjusted?...How did others do it?
Also, I have a Denon 2910...with its chipset I see that MB can be a problem. Has anyone with a Pio XX50 seen any MB?
Thanks,
Jeff
Kelly Black
06-23-05, 07:23 PM
I have a 5050 that I got from TVA along with a HD10-250 three weeks ago. I bought it from TVA because their support and reputation on this site seemed stiller. Unfortunately, I got a HD10-250 with a dead HDMI output out of the box and their support has been less than stiller. Finally, after three emails and a phone call TVA refers me to D* to fix the problem. My question is: Is it worth it to have the HD10-250 HDMI output work and go through D* hell or is the PQ just as good with component on the 5050?
Kelly
Kirk@TVAuthority
06-23-05, 07:33 PM
Kelly Black - Please contact customer serivce at 888-286-5353 option 2. Kin had been out sick (still not feeling great) and was probably a little overwhelmed when you spoke to him. I'm not sure why he didn't put you in touch with our customer service dept. but we'll swap it out -this has been out standard process. My apologies for the miscommunication! We value your business and want to make sure everything is working properly.
Thanks,
Kirk
Kelly Black
06-23-05, 07:57 PM
Kirk,
Wow that is GREAT. That must be the superb customer service that everyone talks about. Thank you for the quick follow-up!
Kelly
Cleveland Plasma
06-23-05, 07:59 PM
[QUOTE=Kelly Black]I have a 5050 that I got from TVA along with a HD10-250 three weeks ago. I bought it from TVA because their support and reputation on this site seemed stiller. Unfortunately, I got a HD10-250 with a dead HDMI output out of the box and their support has been less than stiller. Finally, after three emails and a phone call TVA refers me to D* to fix the problem. My question is: Is it worth it to have the HD10-250 HDMI output work and go through D* hell or is the PQ just as good with component on the 5050?
Kelly[/QUOTE] Did you go through the menus on "Both" the Plasma and DVD player to make sure the HDMI is turned on. For what ever reason Pioneer has this option of turning the HDMI output and input, depending on what you are using, on and off using the remote in the menu's. This info is found in the manuals.
I think you will notice a slight difference. The 5050 has the upconversion technology built inside the media center however the HDMI carries a uncompressed signal giving you a slightly better picture.
Kelly Black
06-23-05, 08:24 PM
Chris,
Thanks for the reply. Yes I did that. I have a Denon DVD player that I was able to test both HDMI inputs on the TV. It is for sure the STB.
Kelly
Hello...
I am the proud new parent of a PDP 4340 purchased in Canada. Now here is my question... pardon my ignorance please.. :)
Since we did not purchase any of those cables that the saleman "insisted" that we need, we opted to first try the cables that we have at home. But all we found at home were the standard RCA (Red, White, Yellow Cables). So those cables gave us a very grainy, unfocused picture through any source (DVD player, Basic Cable and Direct TV). What are the types of cable that I need to have the ability to connect those 3 sources at the same time?
thanks for your help...
[QUOTE=Excess]Hello...
I am the proud new parent of a PDP 4340 purchased in Canada. Now here is my question... pardon my ignorance please.. :)
Since we did not purchase any of those cables that the saleman "insisted" that we need, we opted to first try the cables that we have at home. But all we found at home were the standard RCA (Red, White, Yellow Cables). So those cables gave us a very grainy, unfocused picture through any source (DVD player, Basic Cable and Direct TV). What are the types of cable that I need to have the ability to connect those 3 sources at the same time?
thanks for your help...[/QUOTE]
Component and/or HDMI
mooneydriver
06-23-05, 11:20 PM
[QUOTE=Sonet.MD]I asked this question earlier w/no bites. I'll try and rephrase it. I calibrated using DVE, which is naturally going to my DVD input. Are these settings appropriate for my HDTV input, or should it be further adjusted?...How did others do it?
Also, I have a Denon 2910...with its chipset I see that MB can be a problem. Has anyone with a Pio XX50 seen any MB?
[/QUOTE]
Jeff:
Sorry .. each input needs to be calibrated separately (different circuits inside). However, I found out that my DVE-based calibration on one input was a good starting point for the others -- I eyeballed the rest with only +/- 2 clicks on each setting and I am happy with the results.
Re: MB -- I've never seen it, but then I don't own a Faroudja-based DVD player. Please send me the 2910, and I'll be happy to test it for MB :D
mooneydriver
06-23-05, 11:23 PM
[QUOTE=Brian Miller]This option works very strange for me...instead of grey bars, I actually see part of the program material in the bar area, shown in black-and-white. It is extremely distracting and virtually unwatchable. Is this how it looks to you? Perhaps I need a firmware upgrade for my receiver box...[/QUOTE]
Don't upgrade anything! You are describing a "feature" caused by setting the side mask to "auto." The auto setting was designed by Pioneer engineers eating funny mushrooms. Just change it back to "fixed."
Sonet.MD
06-24-05, 12:05 AM
Thanks Mooneydriver, I thought that was the case. I'm a bit new to this stuff. I haven't upgraded for a long time, not since my xbr250 6 yrs ago. I am outta touch these days. My head starts to spin with all the info and opinions in these threads...good stuff though! So this weekend I'm gonna test my 2910 with a 2900. I would also like to see the yamaha s2500 and elite 59avi. I figure while I have a 30 day return period I'll find what works best for me. I know this is a Display thread but what the hell, I'm testing the Pio out as well :) Keep helping me out mooney and you might find that 2910 on your doorstep. Seriously, thank you!
T2starr
06-24-05, 12:40 AM
[QUOTE=Chispa]We are looking to buy a 50" plasma and I (wife) have been doing research the last few weeks. Way too much information out there!!
Right now we are leaning towards the Panasonic PX50U or PX500U. We will also be buying surround sound for the family room. Basically we are starting from scratch. We will be going to an audio/video store to install and get it all running.
We also liked the pioneers we saw at BB/Magnolia. Why should I buy pioneer vs Pana?? I figured I would get the other side of the story here!
I have read that if you have a bright room Pioneer is better. Why?
The PX500U seems a fair buy at msrp $5,500. What are the reasons for the higher Pioneer prices?
I have been reading this forum for a week now ... the more I read ... the more questions I have!
Thanks[/QUOTE]
The media reciever is a big reason I will be buying the pio 5050 in the next few weeks. My wife wants all equipment except for the plasma hidden. The single input to the panel from the reciever is a nice clean solution to this.
[QUOTE=T2starr]The media reciever is a big reason I will be buying the pio 5050 in the next few weeks. My wife wants all equipment except for the plasma hidden. The single input to the panel from the reciever is a nice clean solution to this.[/QUOTE]
I agree with you on the media reciever seperate with the single cable going from the panel to the media receiver. It saves you from all of those cables that you would have on your other plasma displays out there.
Here is a questions to other AVS forum members on here:
How many people are interested in the A5 model that has that media receiver built into it?
Thanks for your input,
Cambryn
Albert C. Lee
06-24-05, 01:01 AM
Woohoo, it's here! Thanks to Aaron@TVAuthority! Spent the last 6 hrs assembling, carrying out packing material (there's a ton of it!) and calibrating. 200 hrs of break-in and I'm calling in the pros for ISF calibration.
A quick and dirty pic until I clean up the room:
http://photos.leesoft.com/cache/2005/misc/640/DSC_1128.jpg
Brian Miller
06-24-05, 02:29 AM
[QUOTE=mooneydriver]Don't upgrade anything! You are describing a "feature" caused by setting the side mask to "auto." The auto setting was designed by Pioneer engineers eating funny mushrooms. Just change it back to "fixed."[/QUOTE]"Funny mushrooms"...yeah, they were really tripping on this one!
It's interesting, however, that we have 2 distinct reports about the "Auto" feature here: some are seeing the B&W program material, others report a solid grey bar that dims and brightens, like you'd expect. Could this be indicative of a firmware change? If there was a FW upgrade, I'm not too concerned about the grey bars, but what other tweaks did they make...??
Perhaps we could do some comparisons of what I believe are version numbers within the service menu. PLEASE NOTE: The service menu can be dangerous if you start making adjustments without knowing what you're doing! Proceed with caution; look, but don't touch. At any rate, the SM is useful to monitor your panel's lifetime hours.
To get into the SM, do this (it can take multiple tries to get the timing just right):
Start with the plasma turned OFF.
Press DISPLAY on the remote (just press, do not hold).
Wait 3 seconds.
Press LEFT, UP, LEFT, RIGHT then POWER (on the remote).
If done correctly, the plasma turns on and the INFORMATION page is displayed.
Press DOWN to page through each menu (for instance, to see the multiple pages that make up the INFORMATION section). Press MUTE to jump through the different menus.
Here is all the data in the INFORMATION menu that is given for my 5050HD; some of this is version information. Anyone care to compare with their 5050HD?
I/F -08A
MAIN -68K 001K
WID-PRG -02K 001K
WID-DAT -02K
GUI-DAT -02K
MODULE -01A
SEQ-PRG -04A
SQ-DT-V 131W
SQ-DT-P 131W
CCD MSKA
DTV -46K
DTV-VER 05
DTV-SER 038190
PASSWORD 1234
SERIAL
P EAPM001510UC
Glashub
06-24-05, 08:46 AM
Albert C. Lee, your set up looks fabulous with those (I believe) Gallo speakers. I have my 5050 on a similar table type stand with the Onix Rocket 750's (black laquer caps) and it all ties together really nicely. I don't see your MR in the picture. Where did you put it?
Albert C. Lee
06-24-05, 09:18 AM
[QUOTE=Glashub]Albert C. Lee, your set up looks fabulous with those (I believe) Gallo speakers. I have my 5050 on a similar table type stand with the Onix Rocket 750's (black laquer caps) and it all ties together really nicely. I don't see your MR in the picture. Where did you put it?[/QUOTE]
Yep... Gallo Reference 3 speakers. :)
The MR is in the bottom center cabinet inside the credenza. Nicely tucked away but enough ventilation that it doesn't get too hot.
Start with the plasma turned OFF.
Press DISPLAY on the remote (just press, do not hold).
Wait 3 seconds.
Press LEFT, UP, LEFT, RIGHT then POWER (on the remote).
I tried that code on my Xbox and I got unlimited lives in Halo 2 :D Seriously though, I'm usually a bit nervous going into those menus for fear of screwing something up, but maybe I'll try it tonight after a couple beers. Is it easy to exit or is there some other trick to that?
On another note:
I noticed something last night that might be useful in case anyone else has it happen to them. I was watching Mummy Returns on USA via my crappy S-Video DirectTV connection and I kept seeing the brightness flicker back and forth - just very slightly, but enough to bother me. I went into the menu and found that I had Advanced PureCinema turned on for my sat input (which is Input 2 for me). When I changed PurCinema to Standard, the flickering went away. I'm not sure if it's a DTV signal issue or a movie format issue or what, but changing that setting solved it. I've have PureCinema set to Advanced for all my DVD viewing, and I've never seen this happen while watching any of them, so I'm thinking it may be an issue with the signal coming from DirectTV not being 100% compatible with the Advanced PurCinema setting. I have the same movie on DVD, so I'll probably check it out on DVD to see if that matters. If there's no problem, must be DTV. If same problem occurs, must be movie format or something. If anyone knows the real reason why this might happen, I'd love to hear it (and no, I'm not taking shrooms ;) ). Thanks!
Nuzy
Ok, now my fun begins as well. Just ordered the 5050. Hopefully it will be here next week. I really hope I get one that doesn't exhibit the buzz etc that some mention. I am looking forward to mounting it on the wall and enjoying the heck out of it. Was torn between the 5050 and the NEC but ended up with the Pio because I was too worried about the NEC image retention problem.
Curtis.
Jeeps17
06-24-05, 11:04 AM
Hello all,
Does anyone know when the 2005 Pios are to become available in Canada?
I have a new house, a spot on the wall all ready for it, but cannot seem to get an availability date. I had heard June, but the month is almost over, and still not a peep...
And my AV supplier keeps telling me that for the price I'm better off with a Panny TH50PX50...
Oh, we move into the house in two weeks!!!
D'oh!
Jeeps
Problem - Grainy/not focused picture quality
So after purchasing component cables, I connected my LG Recorder/Player DVD to Input 1 on the back of the PDP4340 Media Receiver. The picture is very grainy and not even close to crystal clear.
Next experiment was connecting my DIRECT TV to the receiver. Since I have first generation Direct TV receiver, it only has SVideo out. So using a gold plated S video cable, I connected it to input 3, and the same results - Grainy. What am I doing wrong???
More questions -
I also have basic cable without a cable box. I still can't get a clear picture. Do I need a cable box?
When I Check my signal on the menu, I only get a a 9 (weak). How can get a strong signal?
I don't quite understand the DTV antenna in. Would I connect my out from Direct TV into it?
Thank you for all your help in advance...
Brian Miller
06-24-05, 01:32 PM
[QUOTE=Nuzy]Is it easy to exit or is there some other trick to that?[/QUOTE]Just turn the set off.
[QUOTE=Nuzy]When I changed PurCinema to Standard, the flickering went away.[/QUOTE]There are several things wrong with the Advanced (3:3 pulldown) setting, and flickering is one of them. Same thing happens on my set, on some material. PureCinema should be set to Standard for all inputs.
-Brian
Brian Miller
06-24-05, 01:41 PM
[QUOTE=Excess]Problem - Grainy/not focused picture quality[/QUOTE]Perhaps you are expecting too much from Standard Definition sources? The DirectTV source should be pretty decent, for SD. To get the sharpest picture quality, make sure you aren't in stretch mode (change the Screen Size until you see grey bars on the sides of the screen). If it isn't a basically clean picture (with a somewhat soft focus due to it being an SD source), then there is truly something wrong with your adjustments or the set itself.
Also plug your cable feed into Antenna A and scan for all channels...chances are good that you'll be able to pick up your local HDTV feeds for free. Then when an HD show comes on (primetime TV), you'll see what your Pio is truly capable of.
I've only checked my Signal Strength when viewing an HD source, since that's what it's intended for (aiming an antenna to receive OTA HD). Try scanning for and tuning a true digital feed and then check the Signal Strength. If it isn't somewhere around 40-50 at least, you have a weak cable feed that either your cable co should fix, or you might be able to fix with a cable signal amplifier.
-Brian
[QUOTE=Excess]Problem - Grainy/not focused picture quality
So after purchasing component cables, I connected my LG Recorder/Player DVD to Input 1 on the back of the PDP4340 Media Receiver. The picture is very grainy and not even close to crystal clear.
Next experiment was connecting my DIRECT TV to the receiver. Since I have first generation Direct TV receiver, it only has SVideo out. So using a gold plated S video cable, I connected it to input 3, and the same results - Grainy. What am I doing wrong???
More questions -
I also have basic cable without a cable box. I still can't get a clear picture. Do I need a cable box?
When I Check my signal on the menu, I only get a a 9 (weak). How can get a strong signal?
I don't quite understand the DTV antenna in. Would I connect my out from Direct TV into it?
Thank you for all your help in advance...[/QUOTE]
What is your sharpness setting? If it isn't at -1...change it to -1. Also play with the advance menu settings. As far as your satellite and basic cable is concerned, you are not going to get a "crystal clear" picture as it is only STV. You will need to invest in HDTV from either your satellite provider or cable provider. That weak signal reading is probably due to the cable wiring in your home. It may be time for an upgrade in your cable wire.
TheSkeptiks
06-24-05, 02:03 PM
The DTV input is ONLY for an over the air antenna reception.
For "Cable" Tv try using the other coax inputs. Plus, the Pioneer is known for saying it's a weak signal. You have to let the tv do a channel scan and then magically the signal is strong. Try that.
I have my TiVo connect via S-video on my 4340. The picture is NOT grainy at all. Make sure your Contrast and Brightness is NOT turned up too high. Thus can reveal grain. Also, put sharpness @ -1 or -2. On the advance menu, use the options for reducing picture grain and flicker. They work. Also experiment with tuning the "Enhanced Sharpness" on and off and the "Enhanced Contrast" on and off.
Brian Miller
06-24-05, 03:14 PM
[QUOTE=TheSkeptiks]The DTV input is ONLY for an over the air antenna reception.[/QUOTE]I assume by "DTV Input" we are talking about the "ANTENNA/CABLE A" input which can be used both for over-the-air antenna reception, and cable reception.
[QUOTE=Brian Miller]I assume by "DTV Input" we are talking about the "ANTENNA/CABLE A" input which can be used both for over-the-air antenna reception, and cable reception.[/QUOTE]
No, the media center for the 40 series is different. There is a dtv only coax input on it.
TheSkeptiks
06-24-05, 03:30 PM
Yes, what D-Nice said.
Brian Miller
06-24-05, 03:39 PM
[QUOTE=D-Nice]No, the media center for the 40 series is different.[/QUOTE]Interesting, I did not know that.
Albert C. Lee
06-24-05, 03:44 PM
What does the Toslink Digital Out do? Is it reserved for OTA/CableCard HDTV?
When I feed HDMI from my DVD player to the the MR, and digital out from the MR to the receiver, no audio comes out.
Brian Miller
06-24-05, 03:57 PM
You don't want to do that for 2 reasons: 1) The MR only accepts stereo over the HDMI inputs, and will negotiate with the sending device to downmix to 2-chan over that HDMI interface. So even if you could pass it through, it'd be in stereo. 2) The MR will not pass through HDMI audio inputs to its Toslink digital audio output; as you suspect, this output is reserved for the tuner.
rentwist
06-24-05, 06:04 PM
QUOTE=rentwist][QUOTE=D-Nice][QUOTE=rentwist][QUOTE=D-Nice][QUOTE=rentwist]I've been thinking about the thread you posted about dvd players. I'm really not up on these yet. What do you consider " best bang for buck"? I appreciate your imput, ray.[/QUOTE]
How much do you have to spend?[/QUOTE]
I think the Pio is the least like $700. How about the Panny S97 or the least costly, the $200 S77? They get good reviews on the Forum.[/QUOTE]
Those 2 players are ok, but I don't own any of them so I cannot verify the quality. Do not get the Oppo player as you will get macroblocking on a Pioneer. If you can afford it, get the Denon 2910.[/QUOTE]
The denon is $750. On the DVD Forum alot of ppl said the PQ on the panny S77 ( $200 ) was actually better. Are there certain features on the 2910 that make it a better match for my 5050 Pio?[/QUOTE]
This was a conversation between D-Nice and myself. I also welcome imput from other Pio owners. I want to do my 5050 Pio justice w/o overspending. Please take time to reply. Thanks, ray
Will a 5050HD “work” in a built-in entertainment center that is 51 inches by 34 inches and a couple feet deep. I know the set with stand and without speakers is 50x32.5 so it will fit, but will the depth and placing the set near or at the opening be sufficient for heat distribution? Is it definitely not a good idea or can I get by?
mooneydriver
06-24-05, 08:36 PM
The manual recommends enough clearance for adequate ventilation on the back side. The picture in the manual shows a recommended gap of nearly 20" above the PDP for adequate ventilation. Remember that the panel dissipates over 350W of power. That's as much heat dissipation as the brightest halogen bulbs for home use. Granted, it's dissipated across the entire back surface, but nevertheless ... would you stuff one of those halogen bulbs in a closet, turn it on, and leave the room?
I'd say it's definitely not a good idea. You could probably get away with a 4350 in that space, but I would not try a 5050.
Thanks mooneydriver.
Follow up question: I could have the top of the space raised about 3 inches and a ventilation “square” cut out at the back of the space to allow heat to dissipate up and out. Any chance that would be enough?
Brian Miller
06-24-05, 09:36 PM
The dimensions of your entertainment center are pushing it a bit. I have my 5050HD mounted in a recessed space on a plasma wall unit. The space has about 4" of clearance on the top and sides, and the whole recessed area is about 7" deep. I have the plasma mounted on a "thin mount" which is 1" thick. The front of the panel is almost flush with the front of the opening. It doesn't get hot at all...Pios are known among plasmas for reasonable power consumption...but then again my 4" of clearance on the top and sides, plus the fact that the front of the panel sticks out far enough to be almost flush with the recessed opening, helps with dissipation.
mooneydriver
06-25-05, 12:33 AM
Whatever you do to improve circulation would help, including a cutout in the back. Brian Miller's suggestion is good as well: install it so that it sticks out a bit. That way, the air can easily circulate around it.
Out of curiosity, I measured my installation -- it's exactly 32" high, not 32.5 (that is, the Pioneer stand only elevates it by 3"). Here you go -- you saved another 1/2"!
[QUOTE=Brian Miller]
Here is all the data in the INFORMATION menu that is given for my 5050HD; some of this is version information. Anyone care to compare with their 5050HD?
I/F -08A
MAIN -68K 001K
WID-PRG -02K 001K
WID-DAT -02K
GUI-DAT -02K
MODULE -01A
SEQ-PRG -04A
SQ-DT-V 131W
SQ-DT-P 131W
CCD MSKA
DTV -46K
DTV-VER 05
DTV-SER 038190
PASSWORD 1234
SERIAL
P EAPM001510UC[/QUOTE]
Here's my stuff. Display was manufactured in March 05:
I/F -08A
Main -18K 001K
WID-PRG -02K 001K
WID-DAT -02K
GUI-DAT -02K
Module -01A
SEQ-PRG -04A
SQ-DT-V 131W
SQ-DT-P 131W
CCD MSKA
DTV -46K
DTV-VER 05
Pretty cool how it gives you the number of hours on the panel and media receiver. This way I can keep track of how many hours until I've reached my "break-in" comfort level of 100-200 hours - 16:32 so far! Thanks for the info - now if we only knew what it all meant :D
Nuzy
Based on this thread I purchased the 5050 from TVA. I will just have to alter my entertainment center (I figured with it just sitting there my wife won’t have any choice but to agree to the alteration). Here are a few questions that I think would help out new purchasers.
1) The picture of the shipping box looks quite large, should I have them put in the garage and take it apart there or is it better to have them put it in the house?
2) There are posts here with the settings people are using, but should I use something different for the first 100, 200, etc. hours? If so what are they? Is there better/worse material to watch during break-in?
3) Once the first 100 or 200 hours are done how careful do we have to be about burn in? Can you leave CNBC on for hours, is it OK to watch movies in 2.35/1 several times a week, how much TV can you watch in 4/3, etc.?
4) Any recommendation on checking for dead/stuck pixels without the use of a computer?
BTW, I got the height with stand from the “5050HD height with stand” thread by Kin at TVA: “The information I received from Pioneer stated that the stand raised the set up 3.5 inches. So the total height should be 32.5 inches.” I think a list of actual dimensions with/without items would be good in the FAQ.
[QUOTE=yexel]Based on this thread I purchased the 5050 from TVA. I will just have to alter my entertainment center (I figured with it just sitting there my wife won’t have any choice but to agree to the alteration). Here are a few questions that I think would help out new purchasers.
1) The picture of the shipping box looks quite large, should I have them put in the garage and take it apart there or is it better to have them put it in the house?
2) There are posts here with the settings people are using, but should I use something different for the first 100, 200, etc. hours? If so what are they? Is there better/worse material to watch during break-in?
3) Once the first 100 or 200 hours are done how careful do we have to be about burn in? Can you leave CNBC on for hours, is it OK to watch movies in 2.35/1 several times a week, how much TV can you watch in 4/3, etc.?
4) Any recommendation on checking for dead/stuck pixels without the use of a computer?
BTW, I got the height with stand from the “5050HD height with stand” thread by Kin at TVA: “The information I received from Pioneer stated that the stand raised the set up 3.5 inches. So the total height should be 32.5 inches.” I think a list of actual dimensions with/without items would be good in the FAQ.[/QUOTE]
!. That depends on if you have someone to help you bring it into the house.
2. Keep the contrast between 25-30. Keep the brightness between -1 and +4. I would not recommend keeping cnbc on for hours at a time without changing the channels for the first 600 hours. Keep varying your channels for the first 100 hours and make sure you have SDTV in cinema mode for the first 100-200 hours. It is ok to watch 2.35 movies several times per week as long as you've followed my other suggestions. You can watch 4:3 televison if you want but wait until after 100 hours and make sure you have the grey bars, not black, on the sides.
4. You can go into the service menu and use the different masks that are available. The service menu also have a great wipe mask (2E) to erase and image retention you accidently get.
After you have reached 600 hours you will no longer have to worry about burn-in or image retention on your Pioneer....unless you leave a static image on the screen for over 24 hours. Good luck.
Albert C. Lee
06-25-05, 02:11 PM
Going to be a lot of opinions on this, but here's my take:
[QUOTE=yexel]1) The picture of the shipping box looks quite large, should I have them put in the garage and take it apart there or is it better to have them put it in the house?[/QUOTE]
I did it in the apartment. You'll need to designate a large area where you can throw all the packing material... it comes with a lot of cardboard. Ideally you want the boxed TV as close as possible to where you'll place it/mount it. The less distance you have to carry it unpacked, the less risk of something "bad" happening.
2) There are posts here with the settings people are using, but should I use something different for the first 100, 200, etc. hours? If so what are they? Is there better/worse material to watch during break-in?
Just use the TV as you normally would. Just know that the picture settings will change a bit and you'll have to run DVE, Avia, etc. again after a month or so. If you're going to pay for ISF calibration, which is usually fairly pricey at 250-400, you don't want to have to repeat it again for a year or two, so you wait until the TV has settled in a bit, and image settings have stablized and stopped drifting.
3) Once the first 100 or 200 hours are done how careful do we have to be about burn in? Can you leave CNBC on for hours, is it OK to watch movies in 2.35/1 several times a week, how much TV can you watch in 4/3, etc.?
TVs can take a lot of abuse... despite all the care and feeding guidelines, 99% of plasma buyers don't know the first thing about burn-in, and manufacturers try and do their best to protect against that.
My general rule is "just be aware of what you're doing". If you have a TV, the last thing you need is to leave the TV on and the picture paused for 8 hrs while you're off at work. Likewise, when you can avoid uneven wear (like watching 4:3 TV), do your best to avoid it. Stretch mode is better for the display than grey bars.
4) Any recommendation on checking for dead/stuck pixels without the use of a computer?
Here's a hint... don't do it! If you have one, once you know where it is, you'll always be able to see it. Don't give yourself the heartache.
[QUOTE=yexel]Here are a few questions that I think would help out new purchasers.
1) The picture of the shipping box looks quite large, should I have them put in the garage and take it apart there or is it better to have them put it in the house?
2) There are posts here with the settings people are using, but should I use something different for the first 100, 200, etc. hours? If so what are they? Is there better/worse material to watch during break-in?
3) Once the first 100 or 200 hours are done how careful do we have to be about burn in? Can you leave CNBC on for hours, is it OK to watch movies in 2.35/1 several times a week, how much TV can you watch in 4/3, etc.?
4) Any recommendation on checking for dead/stuck pixels without the use of a computer?[/QUOTE]
1) The shipping box IS huge - I would have them place it in the garage - assuming it is not a mile from where you are going to place the unit. Once the outer carton is removed - there are smaller boxes inside (screen, media receiver, speakers, and stand). All but the screen are small and can be moved into the room where the panel will be set up without difficulty. The screen is more of an issue - as it's box is still large and heavy (you'll need a helper). I mounted mine on the stand - so we unpacked / assembled the stand and then got out the plasma to complete the mounting process. Definetely a (2) person job.
2) Just make sure it is not on torch mode and vary what you watch. I have a PIO920 and moved my settings to "Movie" right out of the box. I zoomed all of my SD programing for a while to avoid the grey bars - but not sure it is necessary. AND of course I watched HD the most - because the picture is stunning.
3) Some good threads on the whole burn in issue - I would refer you there. BUT I personally would not be running CNBC for hours on end. We just vary what we watch - but watch everything, HD, 4:3, DVD, XBOX.
4) Get Avia / DVE - they have some patterns that will allow you to put solid colors up on the screen to check for dead / stuck pixels. You'll want one (or both) of these to dial in your picture anyway.
Good luck with your purchase. We have the 43" Elite model and love it.
I have an HD 1120 with D* Tivo. Went into the SM as outlined by Brian and of course while in there I did something to screw up some setting and now I have sound through my surround hookup but no picture - just a blank screen. :(
I believe while in the service menu I may have hit the input button and the picture went blank but the service info remained on the screen. Turned the TV off and back on, made sure input was set to #1 (as previously set), but still no picture.
Any ideas?? What a dope.
rentwist
06-25-05, 09:02 PM
[QUOTE=seadog]I have an HD 1120 with D* Tivo. Went into the SM as outlined by Brian and of course while in there I did something to screw up some setting and now I have sound through my surround hookup but no picture - just a blank screen. :(
I believe while in the service menu I may have hit the input button and the picture went blank but the service info remained on the screen. Turned the TV off and back on, made sure input was set to #1 (as previously set), but still no picture.
Any ideas?? What a dope.[/QUOTE]
Bad Boy, Brian. You know what happens when you give some of us tooooooooo much information...Newton's Law. Hmn. No not him, the other guy, ray.
Ok,
I have been playing with my camera for the past few hours and decided to post a couple of screen shots from my 4350. I tried to keep a steady hand as I don't have a tripod yet :( Do you see anything wrong with the black levels? :D
And here are 2 more shots. The Angelina Jolie shot is from a 2:35 movie.
[QUOTE=rentwist]QUOTE=rentwist]
The denon is $750. On the DVD Forum alot of ppl said the PQ on the panny S77 ( $200 ) was actually better. Are there certain features on the 2910 that make it a better match for my 5050 Pio?[/QUOTE]
This was a conversation between D-Nice and myself. I also welcome imput from other Pio owners. I want to do my 5050 Pio justice w/o overspending. Please take time to reply. Thanks, ray[/QUOTE]
Here is what a Denon 2910 can do to a poor copy of Star Wars Episode III. You tell me if it is worth it.
pstrisik
06-25-05, 11:24 PM
[QUOTE=D-Nice]This was a conversation between D-Nice and myself. I also welcome imput from other Pio owners. I want to do my 5050 Pio justice w/o overspending. Please take time to reply. Thanks, ray
Here is what a Denon 2910 can do to a poor copy of Star Wars Episode III. You tell me if it is worth it.[/QUOTE]
Very hard to tell from those photos.
I had a 480i only component PIO DVD player and the PQ was so-so (4350). I picked up a Samsung 850 upconverting player with 1080i thru HDMI ($149) and it is noticibly better. I just ordered the Oppo and will be able to compare when it arrives later this week.
The budget players most are talking about currently seem to be the Panny S77 ($200+), the Oppo ($200) and the Samsung 850 ($150). The first two have the Faroudja chip the Samsung does not.
[QUOTE=pstrisik]Very hard to tell from those photos.
I had a 480i only component PIO DVD player and the PQ was so-so (4350). I picked up a Samsung 850 upconverting player with 1080i thru HDMI ($149) and it is noticibly better. I just ordered the Oppo and will be able to compare when it arrives later this week.
The budget players most are talking about currently seem to be the Panny S77 ($200+), the Oppo ($200) and the Samsung 850 ($150). The first two have the Faroudja chip the Samsung does not.[/QUOTE]
Should I have said that those pictures would give an idea? I have an Oppo connected to my 4340 and it sucks. Macroblocking everywhere. I hope you have better luck with yours.
Tivo and the PDP 4350
I have a Toshiba progressive DVD player and Tivo combo. Can I still use this set through the composite output on my SA 8300HD stb and run the output via component to the Pio MS? I would love to be able to use it to record SD.
Especially when right now it appears that the Elite is a generation behind the standard, at least when comparing the Elite Pro 810 to the PDP-4350.
Sonet.MD
06-26-05, 11:27 AM
I was wondering if anyone has found a good way to clean the black frame on these sets. I've moved the 4350 around a few times and unfortunately my buddys don't listen to well and left smudges on the frame of the set. I use the included cloth but some of the marks don't come off.
Also, Dnice I noticed that you use a 2910 & 3910 and seem to like them. Did you audition other players? I have the 2910 and like it myself. With all the reading I feel the need to try a few other players. A 2900 arrives tomorrow. I also will try the Yamaha, and maybe elite if I can get my hands an one. Impressions?
Jeff
mooneydriver
06-26-05, 12:08 PM
[QUOTE=Zon74]Especially when right now it appears that the Elite is a generation behind the standard, at least when comparing the Elite Pro 810 to the PDP-4350.[/QUOTE]
Check the FAQ (first page of this thread).
mooneydriver
06-26-05, 12:14 PM
[QUOTE=begwer]Tivo and the PDP 4350
I have a Toshiba progressive DVD player and Tivo combo. Can I still use this set through the composite output on my SA 8300HD stb and run the output via component to the Pio MS? I would love to be able to use it to record SD.[/QUOTE]
Hmmm ... the SA 8300 is a DVR, right? You can record HD as well as SD on it.
If you want to use the Tivo in addition to the SA 8300, just split the incoming cable signal and feed both boxes. The composite output --> Tivo connection will limit you to recording only whatever the HD 8300 is tuned to. Not a good idea.
rentwist
06-26-05, 01:19 PM
The reason I ask about the S77 ( $200 ) supposedly great PQ, and it does have hdmi, as opposed to 2910 ( $700 ) in the next 6-12 mos there will be HD/DVD out. I hate to spend alot of $$$ only to upgrade in the near future. I'm a simple man who doesn't have a $$ tree in his backyard. What are ppl's oppinions on the HD/DVD?
rentwist
06-26-05, 01:22 PM
[QUOTE=Zon74]Especially when right now it appears that the Elite is a generation behind the standard, at least when comparing the Elite Pro 810 to the PDP-4350.[/QUOTE]
Are you HIGH? Or am I? I always thought the ELITE was the "ELITE" model of the Standard, not the other way around!
[QUOTE=rentwist]The reason I ask about the S77 ( $200 ) supposedly great PQ, and it does have hdmi, as opposed to 2910 ( $700 ) in the next 6-12 mos there will be HD/DVD out. I hate to spend alot of $$$ only to upgrade in the near future. I'm a simple man who doesn't have a $$ tree in his backyard. What are ppl's oppinions on the HD/DVD?[/QUOTE]
Go for it. If you don't like it, take it/send it back.
adamhach
06-26-05, 03:13 PM
Hi guys -
I am probably going to get a 5050 in the next couple of weeks. I am curious if anyone has a 5050 (or comparable) and is using the PIP feature. What kind of inputs do I need to be able to get dual pictures?
I'd likely have a comcast hd/dvr box. But I don't quite understand what would tune the second image. Anyone who has a functional PIP setup...I'd appreciate hearing how you did it.
Thanks!
rentwist
06-26-05, 04:43 PM
The comcast box should come with the PIP feature. It requires you to push the PIP button on their remote. ray
[QUOTE=rentwist]Are you HIGH? Or am I? I always thought the ELITE was the "ELITE" model of the Standard, not the other way around![/QUOTE]
Well, you would think so, wouldn't you? But the new 4350 has the ACEIII and more greyscale levels than the Elite Pro810 which has the ACEII.
So, for some reason, it looks like they updated the electronics on the "standard" before they did it on the Elite.
Not to say that there aren't other features on the Elite such as the coating on the glass. But it sure is hard to figure out the differences. Which of course is why I asked the question in the first place.
[QUOTE=Zon74]Well, you would think so, wouldn't you? But the new 4350 has the ACEIII and more greyscale levels than the Elite Pro810 which has the ACEII.
So, for some reason, it looks like they updated the electronics on the "standard" before they did it on the Elite.
Not to say that there aren't other features on the Elite such as the coating on the glass. But it sure is hard to figure out the differences. Which of course is why I asked the question in the first place.[/QUOTE]
The 810 is last years model. The Elite counterpart of the 4350 is the 920.
[QUOTE=D-Nice]The 810 is last years model. The Elite counterpart of the 4350 is the 920.[/QUOTE]
The 810 is the current monitor version, apparently, according to the Pioneer website.
The 920 has the new ACEIII, but there appears to not yet be a monitor version.
Like D-Nice said, the 920 Elite compares to the 4350, the 1120 Elite compared to the 5050. not sure what kind of comparison you are trying to make. Might be apples and oranges.
Nuzy
[QUOTE=Zon74]Well, you would think so, wouldn't you? But the new 4350 has the ACEIII and more greyscale levels than the Elite Pro810 which has the ACEII.
So, for some reason, it looks like they updated the electronics on the "standard" before they did it on the Elite.
Not to say that there aren't other features on the Elite such as the coating on the glass. But it sure is hard to figure out the differences. Which of course is why I asked the question in the first place.[/QUOTE]
I do know the 920 has ACE III. My impression (guess) is that the 50 series has caught up with the Elite series with the latest generation (ACE III and first surface filter). The biggest question I have is if the panel / scaler in the Elite = the panel / scaler in the 50 series. If so - these units should be very comparable barring the black face on the media receiver and stand, added adjustment capability, and longer warranty.
[QUOTE=Zon74]The 810 is the current monitor version, apparently, according to the Pioneer website.
The 920 has the new ACEIII, but there appears to not yet be a monitor version.[/QUOTE]
It may be the still listed on Pioneer's website but it is based off of "elite" tech from 2 years ago. The only thing it is missing is a media receiver (the one with the MR was called the 820 I think). Don't look for any new "monitor" plasmas, if any, from Pioneer with the new glass until the next gen is available.
Hi friends, nice forum, I'm sure you are the only ones who can help me:
I have recently acquired a Pioneer PDP-435PE 43'' plasma TV (I'm from Spain). It's indeed a great TV in many aspects. Apart from this I've been playing with image configuration for a few days and couldn't get the results I would have wanted in some fields. I'll try to resume my feelings in a list:
-Details and image definition: I think it's great, almost perfect.
-Bright scenes: at first some colors where too bright (red and blue), I touched a little RGB temperature and then colors where ok in these kind of scenes.
-Dark scenes: here is the problem. The black back-screen makes colors such as skin tones or whites in a dark scene to be very few contrasted (they seem mixed with black). That's anoying as sometimes you feel like you can touch settings again in order to improve image quality...BUT THAT'S NOT TRUE!! I've tried with tons of configurations and the problem is still there.
As I think that Pioneer and other TV manufactures are going to release the new catalogue 2005-2006, at September 2005:
-Do you know if Pioneer is aware of this problem and is trying to solve it for next year?
-Are other manufactures going to incorporate all the features Pioneer has been "pioneer" this year?.
-Do you think it worths the waiting or will I encounter the same problem I've found with this one?
If it helps my settings are:
Picture Settings (Digital Terrenal TV)
Picture Mode: User
Contrast: +34
Brightness: +5
Color: -8
Tint: 0
Sharpness: +1
Pro Adjust
Pure Cinema: OFF
Color Temp: MANUAL ( RGB high=(-4,0,-2) ; RGB low=(-2,-2,-4) )
MPEG NR: OFF
DNR: MID
CTI: OFF
DRE: HIGH
Thanks for your time, and I'd like to hear your opinions.
Brian Miller
06-27-05, 03:41 PM
[QUOTE=rentwist][QUOTE=seadog]I have an HD 1120 with D* Tivo. Went into the SM as outlined by Brian and of course while in there I did something to screw up some setting and now I have sound through my surround hookup but no picture - just a blank screen.
I believe while in the service menu I may have hit the input button and the picture went blank but the service info remained on the screen. Turned the TV off and back on, made sure input was set to #1 (as previously set), but still no picture.
Any ideas?? What a dope.[/QUOTE]Bad Boy, Brian. You know what happens when you give some of us tooooooooo much information...Newton's Law. Hmn. No not him, the other guy, ray.[/QUOTE]
Sorry to hear about the trouble, but I did state in the strongest possible language that one must handle the SM very carefully and not make any changes that are not fully understood. I don't accept your assignment of blame for sharing information, rentwist. After all, this is the AV Science forum, and a certain level of technical expertise is assumed. SM discussions are certainly not limited to this thread and are generally greatly appreciated.
Back to the problem at hand: I would first make sure there is truly a problem, not just a cabling issue or an issue with external equipment. Have you done this?
Brian Miller
06-27-05, 03:52 PM
[QUOTE=Nuzy]Here's my stuff. Display was manufactured in March 05:
I/F -08A
Main -18K 001K
WID-PRG -02K 001K
WID-DAT -02K
GUI-DAT -02K
Module -01A
SEQ-PRG -04A
SQ-DT-V 131W
SQ-DT-P 131W
CCD MSKA
DTV -46K
DTV-VER 05
Pretty cool how it gives you the number of hours on the panel and media receiver. This way I can keep track of how many hours until I've reached my "break-in" comfort level of 100-200 hours - 16:32 so far! Thanks for the info - now if we only knew what it all meant :D
Nuzy[/QUOTE]
Thanks Nuzy. It's interesting that we have very similar version data, and also share the same weird effect in the side masking. I'd love to see the version info from someone whose side masking works correctly.
Yes the panel lifetime counter is pretty useful.
-Brian
Brian Miller,
Please take Rentwist’s comments as I did; just a joke. A joke that was aimed at those of us who make mistakes, not those who know more. I, as well as others, am grateful for any information the better informed can provide us.
Tarigan
06-27-05, 06:30 PM
Is anyone using a cable card with their Pio 5050?
Does it make a difference with the picture quality by not getting the cable box. I know the guys on the pany website are loving it.
Thanks,
rentwist
06-27-05, 06:33 PM
Yes, Yes, like Yexel said. I was trying to make a comment on the light hearted side that if you tell us/me how to do something even though it might cause me problems, I gotta try it. Especially if there is a challenge to it. Brian, sorry, ray.
Brian Miller
06-27-05, 06:43 PM
No prob. :)
[QUOTE=Tarigan]Is anyone using a cable card with their Pio 5050?
Does it make a difference with the picture quality by not getting the cable box. I know the guys on the pany website are loving it.
Thanks,[/QUOTE]
I'm using one with mine and I notice the picture has more depth to it.
[QUOTE=Maguas]Hi friends, nice forum, I'm sure you are the only ones who can help me:
I have recently acquired a Pioneer PDP-435PE 43'' plasma TV (I'm from Spain). It's indeed a great TV in many aspects. Apart from this I've been playing with image configuration for a few days and couldn't get the results I would have wanted in some fields. I'll try to resume my feelings in a list:
-Details and image definition: I think it's great, almost perfect.
-Bright scenes: at first some colors where too bright (red and blue), I touched a little RGB temperature and then colors where ok in these kind of scenes.
-Dark scenes: here is the problem. The black back-screen makes colors such as skin tones or whites in a dark scene to be very few contrasted (they seem mixed with black). That's anoying as sometimes you feel like you can touch settings again in order to improve image quality...BUT THAT'S NOT TRUE!! I've tried with tons of configurations and the problem is still there.
As I think that Pioneer and other TV manufactures are going to release the new catalogue 2005-2006, at September 2005:
-Do you know if Pioneer is aware of this problem and is trying to solve it for next year?
-Are other manufactures going to incorporate all the features Pioneer has been "pioneer" this year?.
-Do you think it worths the waiting or will I encounter the same problem I've found with this one?
If it helps my settings are:
Picture Settings (Digital Terrenal TV)
Picture Mode: User
Contrast: +34
Brightness: +5
Color: -8
Tint: 0
Sharpness: +1
Pro Adjust
Pure Cinema: OFF
Color Temp: MANUAL ( RGB high=(-4,0,-2) ; RGB low=(-2,-2,-4) )
MPEG NR: OFF
DNR: MID
CTI: OFF
DRE: HIGH
Thanks for your time, and I'd like to hear your opinions.[/QUOTE]
your settings are a little different than the US version of the 435PE. However, try to reduce the color down to -15. What other color temp setting do you have? They low if it is there. As far as answers to your questions...
1. I don't know if Pioneer is going to tone down the saturation in the next gen. it would be nice to only have to reduce the color to say -3 instead of -15 or -16 to make it look right.
2. I think more manufactures will incorporated the first surface filter down the road just like Panasonic is using the encased cell structure.
3 I would not really call your issue a problem. You may want to have your panel ISF'ed.
rentwist
06-28-05, 10:11 AM
I think my cable co. ( TWC ) offers a cable card also. Can someone please give me some info on the benefits of going this route as opposed to a STB? Thanks. This is my first foray into HDTV. I have alit to learn and this Forum is my classroom, ray.
kin@tvauthority
06-28-05, 11:25 AM
rentwist,
Some people claim to be getting a better picture quality from their cable cards than with a cable box. The main differences you will notice are that the cable card doesn't use two way communication. So your cable company's on screen menu, pay per view, and on demand programming isn't going to work.
I've never had the opportunity to, but I would love to see a cable carded set next to a set using a cable box. That would make for an interesting side by side.
[QUOTE=kin@tvauthority]rentwist,
Some people claim to be getting a better picture quality from their cable cards than with a cable box. The main differences you will notice are that the cable card doesn't use two way communication. So your cable company's on screen menu, pay per view, and on demand programming isn't going to work.
I've never had the opportunity to, but I would love to see a cable carded set next to a set using a cable box. That would make for an interesting side by side.[/QUOTE]
Question for anyone using a cablecard- I understand current cablecards can't give you the cable box on-screen menus, but does that also mean that the cable [COLOR=Red]channel info[/COLOR] (channel w/Title of program etc) is unavailable using the cablecard?
[QUOTE=kenchi]Question for anyone using a cablecard- I understand current cablecards can't give you the cable box on-screen menus, but does that also mean that the cable [COLOR=Red]channel info[/COLOR] (channel w/Title of program etc) is unavailable using the cablecard?[/QUOTE]
That depends on what STB software your cable co is using. From my understanding, if they are using Passport then you will be able to retrieve channel/show info. IF they use SARA, as my local TWC does, then no. I can only see the channel number and channel name.
[QUOTE=rentwist]I think my cable co. ( TWC ) offers a cable card also. Can someone please give me some info on the benefits of going this route as opposed to a STB? Thanks. This is my first foray into HDTV. I have alit to learn and this Forum is my classroom, ray.[/QUOTE]
I get a better picture by using a cable card. I had a SA 8300 connected to my 5050 thru hdmi and the picture was not as crisp as the the cable card. That leads me to believe that the SA 8300 has a D/A conversion on their hdmi port although its suppose to be all digital....no wonder so many people say they really don't see a difference between component and hdmi on that box. IF your local TWC uses the Passport software for their stb's, you will be able to see all the channel/show info with a cable card as the Passport software is built into the 5050. So, the questions you really have to ask yourself are:
1. Do I want the best picture?
2. Do I care about on-demand, channel/show info (if your local TWC uses SARA software)?
3. Do you want to save a couple of bucks per month ($1.75 for the cable card)?
Tarigan
06-28-05, 12:23 PM
Thanks guys...especially Nuzy
Well...I did it...placed an order at TVA for my 5050 and S77; both should arrive this Friday. Can't wait!
I have Brighthouse which, I believe, uses the passport technology: I opted to get the HD DVR instead of the cable card for now. I'll try it out for a few weeks...
I may switch to the Cable Card and get Tivo to get programming info. The only problem with Tivo is that it does not record HD unless you get the D* HD box, correct?
Thanks again for all the info....I almost went to the dark side and got a Panny ;) .
Kirk@TVAuthority
06-28-05, 01:06 PM
Tarigan- Thanks for the order & enjoy the new plasma!
[QUOTE=Tarigan]Thanks guys...especially Nuzy
Well...I did it...placed an order at TVA for my 5050 and S77; both should arrive this Friday. Can't wait!
I have Brighthouse which, I believe, uses the passport technology: I opted to get the HD DVR instead of the cable card for now. I'll try it out for a few weeks...
I may switch to the Cable Card and get Tivo to get programming info. The only problem with Tivo is that it does not record HD unless you get the D* HD box, correct?
Thanks again for all the info....I almost went to the dark side and got a Panny ;) .[/QUOTE]
Thanks for your time on your order Tarigan and enjoy it in time for the 4th of july weekend! It's going to look amazing with all of the fireworks on your new Pioneer plasma display!
Best of luck & let me know if you have any quesitons at any time!
Have a wonderful 4th! :)
Cambryn Courson
Ext. 520
P.s. Let me know how you like your Panasonic DVD player since you are the first that has purchased one from me since we've received them in stock over the weekend.
Ok, forgive my ignorance here for a minute, but what cable card are you guys talking about? Is this a card that goes INTO the 5050? I have Adelphia (S. Florida) and have a combo HD/DVR box provided by them. Will this cable card replace the box I currently have?
Where do I find such a card?
Thanks
Curtis
[QUOTE=cue03]Ok, forgive my ignorance here for a minute, but what cable card are you guys talking about? Is this a card that goes INTO the 5050? I have Adelphia (S. Florida) and have a combo HD/DVR box provided by them. Will this cable card replace the box I currently have?
Where do I find such a card?
Thanks
Curtis[/QUOTE]
Yes it would replace the stb and it slides into the back of the MR. You can contact your local cable co to see if they carry cable cards.
[QUOTE=cue03]Ok, forgive my ignorance here for a minute, but what cable card are you guys talking about? Is this a card that goes INTO the 5050? I have Adelphia (S. Florida) and have a combo HD/DVR box provided by them. Will this cable card replace the box I currently have?
Where do I find such a card?
Thanks
Curtis[/QUOTE]
There is a seperate media receiver for your pioneer plasma that the cable card slot is on. Your cable provider will come out and install it for you into that slot and activate it. Its nothing you can pick up locally
Regards,
Cambryn
Gooch74
06-28-05, 05:59 PM
I am looking at either getting a Panasonic 42PX50 with an external video processor (iScan HD, Lumagen, Plasma Enhancer..etc) or the Pioneer 4350 on it's own.
I believe the Pioneer rendeers a better picture on 480i signals, so it would not need an external scaler. I believe this is because of the Pioneer PureDrive and the Advance PureCineam with 3:3 Pulldown.
One question on the Pioneer. Do they have a aspect ratio similar to Panasonics "Just" mode? This mode seems to do a really good job of stretching. Would the Cinema mode on Pioneer be the same or similar?
Thanks
Jeff
[QUOTE=Gooch74]I am looking at either getting a Panasonic 42PX50 with an external video processor (iScan HD, Lumagen, Plasma Enhancer..etc) or the Pioneer 4350 on it's own.
I believe the Pioneer rendeers a better picture on 480i signals, so it would not need an external scaler. I believe this is because of the Pioneer PureDrive and the Advance PureCineam with 3:3 Pulldown.
One question on the Pioneer. Do they have a aspect ratio similar to Panasonics "Just" mode? This mode seems to do a really good job of stretching. Would the Cinema mode on Pioneer be the same or similar?
Thanks
Jeff[/QUOTE]
Yes, the Cinema mode would be the equivalent of Panasonic's Just mode.
Got my 5050HD hooked up and running. The settings I went with came from this forum and it was.....
Picture Mode: User
Contrast: 25
Brightness: +2
Color: -15
Tint: -2
Sharpness: -1
Pro Adjust
Pure Cinema: Std (720p) Adv (480i and 1080i)
Color Temp: Low (closest to 65k)
MPEG NR: On
DNR: Low
CTI: Off
DRE: On
Seems pretty dark compared to the default setting. But I know it is what I need to do for breaking.
I have it connected to my Adelphia cable box via standard coax connection. My Adelphia box does have a HDMI connection on the back.... can someone suggest a good cable to use? Can I just buy one at best buy? Are these HDMI cables created equal?
Are the above settings good to go with or can I make the screen a little brighter during the first 100 hours or so. Like I said the above settings are where I am currently set to.
Any input would be appreciated. I plan to get the Oppo player. Would I need a special DVI to HDMI cable for that to connect up to the Media box of the Pioneer? Any input would be appreciated.
Wall mount hasn't come in yet. Hopefully it will come in tomorrow and I will mount this baby on the wall.
Thanks
Curtis.
[QUOTE=cue03]Got my 5050HD hooked up and running. The settings I went with came from this forum and it was.....
Picture Mode: User
Contrast: 25
Brightness: +2
Color: -15
Tint: -2
Sharpness: -1
Pro Adjust
Pure Cinema: Std (720p) Adv (480i and 1080i)
Color Temp: Low (closest to 65k)
MPEG NR: On
DNR: Low
CTI: Off
DRE: On
Seems pretty dark compared to the default setting. But I know it is what I need to do for breaking.
I have it connected to my Adelphia cable box via standard coax connection. My Adelphia box does have a HDMI connection on the back.... can someone suggest a good cable to use? Can I just buy one at best buy? Are these HDMI cables created equal?
Are the above settings good to go with or can I make the screen a little brighter during the first 100 hours or so. Like I said the above settings are where I am currently set to.
Any input would be appreciated. I plan to get the Oppo player. Would I need a special DVI to HDMI cable for that to connect up to the Media box of the Pioneer? Any input would be appreciated.
Wall mount hasn't come in yet. Hopefully it will come in tomorrow and I will mount this baby on the wall.
Thanks
Curtis.[/QUOTE]
Yes you can bump the contrast up if you want. Try to stay under 32 though. You can also play with the color settings if you like.
rentwist
06-28-05, 07:52 PM
I'm at work. I know my brightness +7. I can't remember the rest of my exact settings. I'll check them out and post them. Hopefully we can in turn help each other out. I also feel my settings are on the dark side. Especially the night scenes. I work a day job, night job, then plasma tv. Need to concentrate on my PQ more. Thanks.
When you buy your oppo dvd player, you can select an HDMI to HDMI cable or a DVI to HDMI cable. You will need the DVI to HDMI cable. I have the panny s77. Went between both the oppo and panny and went with the s77. No regrets.
I'll post my settings when I get a few minutes. I have about 20 hours on my set and my "break-in" settings are pretty close to yours.
Nuzy
D-Nice, thanks for the info. I went out and picked up a HDMI cable to go from my cable box to the Pio. Holly hell.... the picture quality increased bigtime. I was a little bummed at first but now I am truely happy. I am trying to find some night scenes. So far I am still playing with the settings and have not finalized yet. But I must say I am very happy so far even on SD. HD is stunning as everyone here has said.
I changed the contrast to 26 and brightness to +5. I am a little confused at what I am seeing with changing the contrast and brightness setting. they both seem to increase the amount of light in the picture. Is it better to change one and not the other?
Thanks Nuzy. I just went to oppo's site and it seems that it ships with a DVI cable. So I can use their cable... (not sure of it quality) and purchase a DVI to HDMI adapter OR I can buy an entirely new cable that is DVI on one side and HDMI on the other side, right?
Any suggestions for cable people. I bought the monster cable edition from Tweeter today to hold me over. Man it is freaking expensive for a HDMI cable. I would rather order online and save as much as maybe $40-50 bucks for a comparable or even "better" cable.
Thanks and I will keep you guys posted.
Curtis
HazChem
06-28-05, 11:29 PM
I got a visit today from a Pio-authorized service guy to check out the buzz on my panel. Since first reporting to TVA in May (BTW, thanks Kin and James!), it seems that the buzz has gotten quieter but it could be that I just got used to it. Regardless, the service guy agreed that it is a louder than spec. He said he needed to take the panel to back to his service center to check out which board could be the cause. I'll be without it for about 5 days but luckily I'll be out of town for most of it.
I was completely expecting the service guy to just say the buzz was normal but he was very courteous and helpful. What is even more amazing to me was that I wasn't even at home to try to explain the situation. My wife was home at the time and she managed to explain the buzz pretty well even though she still doesn't think it was that big of a deal.
Kudos to Pio and TVA.
[QUOTE=cue03]D-Nice, thanks for the info. I went out and picked up a HDMI cable to go from my cable box to the Pio. Holly hell.... the picture quality increased bigtime. I was a little bummed at first but now I am truely happy. I am trying to find some night scenes. So far I am still playing with the settings and have not finalized yet. But I must say I am very happy so far even on SD. HD is stunning as everyone here has said.
I changed the contrast to 26 and brightness to +5. I am a little confused at what I am seeing with changing the contrast and brightness setting. they both seem to increase the amount of light in the picture. Is it better to change one and not the other?
Thanks Nuzy. I just went to oppo's site and it seems that it ships with a DVI cable. So I can use their cable... (not sure of it quality) and purchase a DVI to HDMI adapter OR I can buy an entirely new cable that is DVI on one side and HDMI on the other side, right?
Any suggestions for cable people. I bought the monster cable edition from Tweeter today to hold me over. Man it is freaking expensive for a HDMI cable. I would rather order online and save as much as maybe $40-50 bucks for a comparable or even "better" cable.
Thanks and I will keep you guys posted.
Curtis[/QUOTE]
You can play with both settings but I personally only play with the contrast. Try setting your contrast to 30 and brightness to +3.
[QUOTE=cue03]Thanks Nuzy. I just went to oppo's site and it seems that it ships with a DVI cable. So I can use their cable... (not sure of it quality) and purchase a DVI to HDMI adapter OR I can buy an entirely new cable that is DVI on one side and HDMI on the other side, right?
Curtis[/QUOTE]
Curtis - I typed that too quickly. You are right. Ships with DVI to DVI or DVI to HDMI. You are correct that you can just buy an adapter or new DVI to HDMI cable.
Here are my current "break-in" settings. These are eyeballed. I have not had time to get AVIA or DVE yet. For being "break-in" settings, I actually like them quite a bit. I tend to prefer a softer and darker picture, so these settings look pretty good to me. I'm sure I will be messing with them more after I get past the 100 hour mark. Maybe put the contrast up a bit, but I would be surprised if I like it much higher than 30 or so. I suppose a lot of it is personal preference. BTW, if some of the settings seem different, like a "mid" instead of an "on" or "off," it's because my 5050 shipped with an Elite media box. My guess is that the Elite has a few additional setting options.
Picture Mode: User
Contrast: 25
Brightness: +5
Color: -15
Tint: 0
Sharpness: -1
Pro Adjust
PureCinema: ADV (for DVD only, STD or Off for Satellite)
ColorTemp: Low
MPEG NR: Mid
DNR: Mid
CTI: Off
DRE: Mid
Color Mgmt (my goal with these was to push the greens and blues up and tone the reds down a bit - these were real quick adjustments)
R: -3
Y: +4
G +4
C: +2
B: 0
M: -3
Nuzy
Nuzy, I will give those settings a try. I don't have the Color Mgmt option on my plasma that I can see. That may be due to the fact that you have the Elite box. I have the 5050HD. :(
Thanks again.
Curtis
Albert C. Lee
06-29-05, 12:39 AM
Makes me wonder how much to buy the Elite box so I can be cool like Nuzy. :)
rentwist
06-29-05, 06:30 AM
Then you'll need the ELITE display, like me, he he. Between Nuzy with the Elite box and me with the Elite panel, we have the whole 1120 system.
rentwist
06-29-05, 06:34 AM
Hey Nuzy, I'm glad got the ELITE panel. It come with a 2 yr. warrantee as opposed to 1. Not really sure what else is diff, tho? I do wish I could change the individual color settings like you can, tho. Ah well, "You can't always get what you want".
rentwist
06-29-05, 06:40 AM
I watch more SD ( like 300 of them) as opposed to HD ( 6 of them) currently. I would guess others with the Pio watch SD also. How diff. are you settings from HD. I seem to get a rather good PQ with the exception of some clay-facing/ sunburn now and then. Any idears to improve PQ? Thanks, ray.
Yeah, I'm not sure I understand the logic behind whether the warranty is 1 or 2 years based on the panel versus the media receiver, especially when I thought the panel is the same other than the Elite logo instead of Pioneer logo, but you certainly got the better end of the deal from that perspective. I ended up getting the extended warranty so I have 5 total years. That should give me a good enough comfort level if anything goes wrong.
Here's to being half cool :) I wonder how much it would cost for me to get a plastic Elite logo to super glue to the front of my display??? ;)
Nuzy
pdampier
06-29-05, 12:09 PM
Anyone hooked a PC to the 5050HD via the HDMI input (DVI from PC to the 5050HD via a DVI to HDMI cable) - If so does it accept PC resolutions or will it ONLY accept CEA timings like 720p/1080i and not display anything at 1024x768 etc....
Thanks!
Albert C. Lee
06-29-05, 12:28 PM
[QUOTE=pdampier]Anyone hooked a PC to the 5050HD via the HDMI input (DVI from PC to the 5050HD via a DVI to HDMI cable) - If so does it accept PC resolutions or will it ONLY accept CEA timings like 720p/1080i and not display anything at 1024x768 etc....[/QUOTE]
I haven't, but just curious why you would want to do it that way when there is a PC RGB input on the front panel of the media receiver?
pdampier
06-29-05, 01:00 PM
I'd rather feed the panel a digital signal... In the future VGA outputs will likely be down-rezed as its a non-protected output
While I know DVI in on most panels will support things like 800x600/640x480 etc etc (useful on first boot before you configure a native res) I've heard that HDMI inputs ONLY support CEA resolutions like 720p/1080i - This would be a blocker for me booting a PC to them as no image would be displayed.
Can anyone confirm a PC to the 5050HD's HDMI ports will display images at PC POST + common PC resolutions like 800x600/1024x768....
Kid Jay
06-29-05, 04:28 PM
Does anyone have some setting specs for the Pro-1120? I just got one the other day. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
thank you
[QUOTE=Kid Jay]Does anyone have some setting specs for the Pro-1120? I just got one the other day. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
thank you[/QUOTE]
Kid - my settings listed above are for an 1120. Pio packed the "Pro/Elite" media box with my 5050 order. Just note that I mentioned they are eyeball settings and also "break-in" settings - meaning that contrast and brightness are set lower than typical. Your lighting environment could have an impact on what settings you prefer, so you may not like mine at all.
Nuzy
rentwist
06-29-05, 06:00 PM
[QUOTE=Nuzy]Yeah, I'm not sure I understand the logic behind whether the warranty is 1 or 2 years based on the panel versus the media receiver, especially when I thought the panel is the same other than the Elite logo instead of Pioneer logo, but you certainly got the better end of the deal from that perspective. I ended up getting the extended warranty so I have 5 total years. That should give me a good enough comfort level if anything goes wrong.
Here's to being half cool :) I wonder how much it would cost for me to get a plastic Elite logo to super glue to the front of my display??? ;)
Nuzy[/QUOTE]
Hell Nuz, I'll chisel mine off and send it to ya.
rentwist
06-29-05, 07:00 PM
Anyone who's bought the S77 DVD player, is the enclosed HDMI cable sufficient, or did you upgrade it? Thanks, ray
[QUOTE=rentwist]I watch more SD ( like 300 of them) as opposed to HD ( 6 of them) currently. I would guess others with the Pio watch SD also. How diff. are you settings from HD. I seem to get a rather good PQ with the exception of some clay-facing/ sunburn now and then. Any idears to improve PQ? Thanks, ray.[/QUOTE]
My settings are the same - but I split my cable before it goes into the media receiver and one side into the cable box (HD channels) and the other straight into the media receiver for SD. I switch over to antenna and get better SD without the cable box in the path.
Rentwist,
From what I have read, since HDMI is digital a more expensive cable should not make a difference to the S77 or anything else. In one thread I remember a post where the user went out and bought an expensive HDMI cable and said it was better. After being jumped on by the more experienced users he reevaluated his expensive cable vs. his stock one and he concluded they were right and the provided cable was just as good.
I will also be using an S77 with my 5050. I had to set the HDMI color to RGB to get the color to seem natural on my previous plasma. I would be interested in any other user’s settings with the S77.
jfelbab
06-30-05, 09:00 AM
FWIW, Sam's Club has HDMI cables at a really nice price. The cable looks decent and for the price it is hard to beat.
PHILIPS
HDMI CABLE 6FT HIGH CABLE
Item: 259670
Price: $22.64
Question regarding the Learning function on the Remote control that comes with the 5050HD:
Does anyone know if you can program additional buttons (eg. volume up/down) commands OTHER than the ones that are specifically highlighted in the users manual?
TIA
I am excited...tomorrow is the day I will buy my 43 inch 4350 HD from TVA! Yea!!
Kirk@TVAuthority
07-01-05, 12:14 AM
jb0362 - Thank you! You'll enjoy it - it's an excellent plasma.
Kirk
I received my PDP 4350 from SatSound yesterday as promised, along with the Pioneer stand, and everything looks good. Thanks Dave and Doug
[QUOTE=Nuzy]D - I'll check when I get home and post later tonight.
Nuzy[/QUOTE]
Yeah, check it out. I have an elite 1120. I can help you compare. I wonder if the combination of PDP-5050 + Elite media receiver will make it an elite.
Dan
[QUOTE=mooneydriver]I edited the FAQ (toward the top of the first page of this thread) and included responses to most of the latest questions. Check it out.[/QUOTE]
Mooneydriver,
Can you review and add this into the FAQ.
Pioneer plasma models have a resolution of 1280x768p. I've contacted Pioneer regarding the "Native" resolution and they told me the unit will "natively" run at 768p. Here's the quote:
"Thank you for contacting Pioneer Electronics, Inc.
The native output of the plasma is 768p. This means that any compatible signal that is input into the plasma will be scaled to 768P. All of our plasma displays that we sell will perform the same way but the Elite line will do a little bit better job of improving the output with the help of some added circuitry."
The reason this is important because your regular DVD player with component output will send out 480p via component. Once this signal gets to the display, it will be up-scaled to 768p. Users may want to test this out first before buying a new DVD player with HDMI+upscaler
Dan
Sounds Simple
07-01-05, 01:32 PM
Pioneer plasma models have a resolution of 1280x768p.
This confuses me. Shouldn't the display have a resolution 0f 1365x720 to maintain the proportionately scaled image. Or are we forced to choose between a letterboxed display or having the sides lopped off/
Bob
Cleveland Plasma
07-01-05, 04:55 PM
There is a new promotion on the PDP-4350, PDP-5050, PRO-1120HD, and the PRO-920HD. Those considering to buy one of these fine products will be making a move...........
[QUOTE=Cleveland Plasma]Anyone who bought a PDP-4350, PDP-5050, PRO-1120HD, OR A PRO-920HD in the last month or so is going to be bumming out when they find out about the new promotion. I am not going to break the news to you. Those considering to buy one of these fine products will be making a move...........[/QUOTE]
Thats because all of the authorized online dealers did not know until yesterday that there is a new promotion that started on the 1st for the authorized online dealers. Things are always bound to happen, and lots with out knowing. For all of you looking to purchasing this would be a great time to jump on the new promotion from the authorized dealers that just started today only and runs through october!
PLEASE NOTE: This promotion is valid with all the companies listed on the authorized consumer online page at www.pioneerusa.com anyone not listed on there will NOT have a rebate on their product they are selling you nor the warranty. Those companies are listed on the rebate on who is authorized for the rebates.
Best Regards,
Cambyn Courson
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