The promulgation of built in ATSC tuners?

[semigolfer]

I just started shopping for an LCD TV for my kitchen counter. Looking for a 22" or 23" screen (largest that will fit) with 16x9 aspect ratio, HDMI input, and built in ATSC tuner. Also of course - decent picture quality.

First stop in the stores, could find most of the requirements possible now except for the ATSC tuner (and I'm not interested in spending $250 for a seperate tuner box, when the cost of building it in seems to be so much smaller).

[color=green]Quick check on compliance dates (from: http://tv.about.com/b/a/183637.htm)
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"Important ATSC Tuner Compliance Dates
As if the digital television mumbo jumbo wasn't confusing enough, but July 1, 2005, marked an anniversary of sorts for television manufacturers across the world. In a 2002 mandate by the FCC, all televisions with screen sizes over 36" must include a built-in ATSC DTV tuner if entering the USA. While this doesn't do anything for sets made before July 1, it does offer hope for those who wonder why digital TVs don't already come with the necessary tuner.

Here's a list of other important dates and the consumer electronics devices they affect:

July 1, 2006 - 100% of 25-35" TVs must include ATSC DTV tuner (right now only 50% required)
July 1, 2007 - 100% of 13-24" TVs must include ATSC DTV tuner
July 1, 2007 - 100% of all interface devices must have ATSC DTV tuner (VCR, DVD player/recorder, DVR)"[/color]

So it looks like July 2007 for full compliance for this size, but does anybody have an idea when 22" to 23" TV's with built in ATSC tuners will first start appearing?

Further examination seems to show that some models in the sizes of 25" - 35" look to have built in ATSC tuners available this fall, so my guess is that 13" - 24" sizes w/ATSC tuners look to start coming out in the fall of 2006 or am I misreading the tea leaves?

[WS65711]

[QUOTE=semigolfer]
. . . Further examination seems to show that some models in the sizes of 25" - 35" look to have built in ATSC tuners available this fall, so my guess is that 13" - 24" sizes w/ATSC tuners look to start coming out in the fall of 2006 or am I misreading the tea leaves?[/QUOTE]

I don't know about the tea leaves, but Sharp has had 26" LCD sets with built-in ATSC tuners available since (at least) summer of 2004.

[donrussell]

The deadline has been moved up. See here:
http://www.tvtechnology.com/dailynews/issue.php?w=2005-06-10

It seems like the manufacturers are waiting as long as possible, possibly due to the low availability, current cost and new design problems with the ATSC chip sets. If they make the 50% at all, it will be because almost all the sets produced this fall will have ATSC tuners. However, they may give the 36" & up sets priority, since ALL now have to have ATSC tuners, if they have any tuners at all.

[semigolfer]

Thanks WS65711
didn't see that model locally, looks like I should have spent more time on-line.

Thanks also donrussell for the link
Looks like I may not have to wait a year - you've given me some hope.
It was interesting to read that - building ATSC tuners in only cost about $100.

and BTW
if your TV guide, doesn't do a good job of displaying HD programming, I've been using these two sites recently that [color=red]clearly[/color] identify HD programming (although these thoughts should probably posted in the HD forum)
http://www.titantv.com/quickguide/quickguide.aspx
http://www.checkhd.com/Default.aspx

[Mike53]

No, we are not waiting as long as possible but the US Congress is fiddling with the law. The law requires an HD tuner. It does not require cable tuners only ATSC. It is no longer 36" it has moved down to 32". 32" now requires 50% have ATSC tuners. The drop dead deadline moved to March 2006 which has everyone in a panic because of chip shortages, engineering etc. I told our marketing types that there is a market for small screen 17-23" with cablecard for kitchens and bathrooms. Congress is stumbling through this trying to be "concerned" for the poor people who can't afford an HD set and their 4:3 sets are about to go dark....that's the deadline that is up in the air. They have decided that a converter box subsidy is necessary ($50 a set X 21million people).

[stephenC]

Mike - I've been in the market for a kitchen TV (< 20") with an ATSC tuner for a couple of years. Being an early adopter can be a real pain. It seems that there is a market for such a unit based on semigolfer's request.

Sony and Audiovox have units out that are under cabinet mounted with 7" widescreen LCD monitors, but these units only come with NTSC tuners. The Sony even has a built-in CD player and AM/FM radio. Now, if Sharp would come out with a similar unit with a built-in ATSC tuner, they would have at least me as a customer. Pass this on to your marketing department. Thanks.

[donrussell]

I think it is almost criminal not to require signs in all TV departments that state "WARNING - You may not be able to receive your local TV stations with an antenna after 2009 unless you have a converter box or TV with an ATSC tuner built-in".

Of course, very few of the sets on display have the ATSC tuner now, and none under 26".

[Mike53]

[QUOTE=donrussell]I think it is almost criminal not to require signs in all TV departments that state "WARNING - You may not be able to receive your local TV stations with an antenna after 2009 unless you have a converter box or TV with an ATSC tuner built-in".

Of course, very few of the sets on display have the ATSC tuner now, and none under 26".[/QUOTE]That is under consideration by CEA to do just that.

[robert123]

Did I not read that Sharp had announced a 23" LCD with CableCARD for release later this year?

Robert

[Mike53]

[QUOTE=robert123]Did I not read that Sharp had announced a 23" LCD with CableCARD for release later this year?

Robert[/QUOTE]Nothing this year but a whole bunch of new screen sizes next year down to 20"W. Others have 23" now but not Sharp. Not sure about anything with cablecard. Now I want one of those!

[Mike53]

This just in from Television AM - A Warren Publication:

TIVO URGES FCC TO KEEP DTV TUNER DEADLINE

TiVo urged the FCC Wed. to keep July 1, 2007, as the DTV tuner mandate deadline for all remaining sets. In comments on an FCC bid to move the deadline to Dec. 31, 2006, TiVo said it “fully supports the Commission’s efforts to expedite the DTV transition.” However, advancing the deadline 6 months “will have unintended consequences of significantly disrupting the market and causing economic hardships” to TiVo and other CE makers, the company said. Making Dec. 31, 2006, the new deadline will “exponentially compound the hardships” posed by a speedier deadline because it falls at the end of the holiday selling season, TiVo said. The earlier deadline “would require TiVo not only to cope with the unpredictable and increased holiday season demand, but at the same time attempt to coordinate the timing of sales of non-DTV tuner products and DTV tuner products during these busiest consumer buying months.”

[Bill Shakespeare]

Is Tivo really saying that it wants to put several thousand lumps of coal (NTSC tuners) in the stockings of the incredibly uninformed buying public?

"Please let us dump these obsolete sets over the holidays. We promise to be good after that."

[sic0048]

[QUOTE=Bill Shakespeare]"Please let us dump these obsolete sets over the holidays. We promise to be good after that."[/QUOTE]

They still could if that is what they wanted to do. I think most holiday buying is done before 12-31 (even the after Christmas sales are wrapping up).

I can understand Tivos positon (I'm not saying I agree with it, but I understand it). I'm sure they could handle the 6mo date change if it didn't also coincide with the holiday rush (although they would still complain about it). It's basically putting two major events to coincide with each other unexpectedly. I would be pissed if I had a major project at work due 12-31 and then my boss unexpected moved up a project that I thought was going to be due 7-31 to 12-31 as well.