View Full Version : TV Show DVDs do not require video mode deinterlacing!
When discussing the merits of deinterlacing solutions, I've seen it mentioned many times that a deinterlacer with a sophisticated video mode, like DCDi, is of value if you watch a lot of TV shows on DVD. This is not so. The VAST majority of prime time TV shows are produced on film and will have the same 3:2 sequence as any US film based movie DVD. This is true for TV shows going back into the 1950's. Anyone who's ever had a standalone deinterlacer with a film/video indicator knows that as soon as a primetime show comes on, it locks right into film mode. Even a lot of commercials contain the 3:2 sequence.
Pretty much the only TV shows that are shot with native interlaced video cameras (and thus do require sophisticated deinterlacers) are sports, news, game shows, talk shows, anything live, etc. Of course this is slowly changing now with the advent of HD, but for prime time dramas and comedies, film still rules the day. So if you have a DVD player with a less than stellar video mode, and like to enjoy the myriad of old and new TV shows now on DVD, don't feel like you need to upgrade.
Dave
For big name prime time US TV shows, sure. I have the "Film" light on my scaler come on during quite a few shows on TV.
If you happen to enjoy any TV shows that aren't big name prime time shows, however, then you will be using video deinterlacing. Some big name shows also throw a few interlaced cameras into the mix, so you get the odd shot here and there in interlaced, which is prehaps bothering, prehaps not.
Whether it's a big enough issue to warrent investment in something with a good video mode is totally a matter of what you watch. I watch a lot of Hong Kong and Japanese dramas, anime, British Sci Fi, cartoons, etc, so I'm inundated with video material, and thus it's a big deal to me. If you mainly watch telecined stuff, then it probably isn't.
JLanguage
07-27-05, 11:51 PM
[QUOTE=Carled]For big name prime time US TV shows, sure. I have the "Film" light on my scaler come on during quite a few shows on TV.
If you happen to enjoy any TV shows that aren't big name prime time shows, however, then you will be using video deinterlacing. Some big name shows also throw a few interlaced cameras into the mix, so you get the odd shot here and there in interlaced, which is prehaps bothering, prehaps not.
Whether it's a big enough issue to warrent investment in something with a good video mode is totally a matter of what you watch. I watch a lot of Hong Kong and Japanese dramas, anime, British Sci Fi, cartoons, etc, so I'm inundated with video material, and thus it's a big deal to me. If you mainly watch telecined stuff, then it probably isn't.[/QUOTE]
You could always go with an interlaced display - much cheaper :D
[QUOTE=JLanguage]You could always go with an interlaced display - much cheaper :D[/QUOTE]
Last time I checked you couldn't get interlaced LCoS projectors. If things have changed since then, I'm all ears ;)
JLanguage
07-28-05, 12:11 AM
[QUOTE=Carled]Last time I checked you couldn't get interlaced LCoS projectors. If things have changed since then, I'm all ears ;)[/QUOTE]
Unfortunate, ay?
[QUOTE=JLanguage]Unfortunate, ay?[/QUOTE]
Not particularly. Interlaced displays have their own set of issues.
Even shows shot on film usually have all post-production editing, credits superimposition, and visual effects (if any) done in the video realm. Also, many series are shot at 30fps to match the video refresh rate.
Just because a TV show is shot on 35mm or 16mm film does not mean that it will have a solid 3:2 cadence throughout.
dotheDVDeed
07-28-05, 11:00 AM
Okay--Eagles "Hell Freezes Over" DTS-DVD.
Deinterlace or not?
TIM :D
maxleung
07-28-05, 11:33 AM
A lot of shows have mixed framerates too - 24 fps for a bit, but then a character pulls out a digicam, and then while the character is using the digicam and the audience sees what the digicam sees, the framerate changes to 30 fps. Mixed video happens. This is where a good deinterlacing in your player/processor comes in handy...
Even shows shot on film usually have all post-production editing, credits superimposition, and visual effects (if any) done in the video realm. Also, many series are shot at 30fps to match the video refresh rate.
Yes, post production can add some non-3:2 sequencing, but I'm not talking about cadence and framerate changes, I'm talking about video mode deinterlacing, i.e. true interlaced fields, and that is very rare in US TV Show DVDs. Converting 60 field per second video into 60 frame per second video is extremely difficult to do well, and if you do have some actual 60 field per second interlaced content DVDs, then the quality of the video deinterlacing in your DVD player is very important.
My issue is that I often see it mentioned in DVD player reviews that if you watch a lot of TV shows on DVD, then the quality of the video deinterlacing mode should be a priority, but if you mainly watch movies, then it's not as important. I just wanted to let people know that TV show DVDs usually don't require video mode deinterlacing, just cadence detection, like movie DVDs.
Dave
Would TV shows be shot in 24fp or 30fp film? Because my S97 has an auto1 for 24fp and an auto2 for 30fps film. I guess using the auto2 setting would be better for TV shows shot at 30fp.
[QUOTE=Dave W]My issue is that I often see it mentioned in DVD player reviews that if you watch a lot of TV shows on DVD, then the quality of the video deinterlacing mode should be a priority, but if you mainly watch movies, then it's not as important. I just wanted to let people know that TV show DVDs usually don't require video mode deinterlacing, just cadence detection, like movie DVDs.[/QUOTE]
This is quite true, but be aware that there is still video material out there - it isn't just an urban legend.
This is quite true, but be aware that there is still video material out there - it isn't just an urban legend.
Absolutely. I've got a few discs myself that are definitely true interlaced video, and they look pretty bad when played through a deinterlacer with a simple video mode, and quite good when played through DCDi. In my case, the discs are all music concerts, obviously shot with native 480i cameras.
However, what I'd consider mainstream TV show DVDs, like the Seinfeld series, Star Trek series, Simpsons, Smallville, etc, are all film based with a simple deinterlacing cadence, and thus don't require a sophisticated video mode deinterlacer.
Dave
Would TV shows be shot in 24fp or 30fp film?
Here in the U.S., I've only seen 24 fps used for your average mainstream primetime dramas, comedies, and sci-fi. Josh Z here says some shows are shot with 30 fps film, but I've never seen that myself.
Dave
[QUOTE=Dave W]Here in the U.S., I've only seen 24 fps used for your average mainstream primetime dramas, comedies, and sci-fi. Josh Z here says some shows are shot with 30 fps film, but I've never seen that myself.[/QUOTE]
I don't have specific titles, but I've heard of it being done. Perhaps "many" was an overstatement.
[QUOTE=Dave W]However, what I'd consider mainstream TV show DVDs, like the Seinfeld series, Star Trek series, Simpsons, Smallville, etc, are all film based with a simple deinterlacing cadence, and thus don't require a sophisticated video mode deinterlacer.[/QUOTE]
This just seems like a fruitless argument, because no matter what you watch you're going to eventually encounter something that requires more sophisticated deinterlacing than simple 3:2. Why not be ready for it?
I agree with you Josh, I would hate to be without a DCDi deinterlacer when I really needed it. This thread was prompted when I read yet another DVD player review with a line like this (pulled from a recent Secrets DVD player review):
If you are a fan of video based material such as TV programs on DVD, this is a player I would stay away from.
I think Secrets does a great job with their DVD player reviews, precisely because they strive to be analytical and accurate, rather than subjective, and I think a line like that is unnecessarily misleading.
Dave
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