New Pioneer card for 434/504CMX from Key Digital w/HDCP

[Kei Clark]

I've been testing the new Key Digital HDXplorer card for Pioneer plasma models PDP-434/504CMX. The card features the following:

4 x HDMI Inputs (HDCP Compliant)
1 x VGA Input
1 x Component HD Input
1 x S-Video Input
1 x Composite Input
1 x L/R Audio input/output
1 x S/PDIF Audio input/output

http://www.digitalconnection.com/images/kd_xplorer.jpg

The primary feature of this card is of course that it turns this commercial model plasma HDCP compliant. Four HDMI inputs makes the card the ideal switcher for digital sources, but the HDXplorer also features Key Digital's ClearMatix Pro scaling for all sources including 480p/1080i/720p up to the native resolution of the panel at 1280x768. Unlike the current cards on the market, the output signal is digital.

I have tested with variety of DVI/HDMI devices, the most tricky being the Dish 942. The HDXplorer has an upgradable firmware and the last update fixed HDCP compliance with the Dish 942 PVR.

There are extensive menu functions including the HV size and position as well as aspect ratio control with various zoom options.

Scaling of 480i/480p as well as the HD signal is excellent, set up once and forget it. Lip sync control has been built into the audio functions but I have not yet fiddled with this much yet.

I'll try my best to answer questions on the card features that I may have overlooked.

[madshi]

Does it accept native rate at 24p, 25p, 50p and 60p? :)

[Kei Clark]

madshi,

Not sure what source you have that can output 24 or 25p but since I have no such device, I can't answer that one. The card does accept 50/60Hz.

[madshi]

Kei, I don't have such a source yet, but basically if you have a good external scaler, 24p should be the preferred format for movies. Why? Because if the display is clever, it will show it as 72p and no motion judder will be seen.

BluRay+HD-DVD movies are encoded in 24p, although the first player generation might only output it converted to 60i.

Probably I should drop asking for 25p, because if the card accepts 50p, the external scaler will just double 25p to 50p and no problem. However, if the card doesn't accept 24p, that would be bad. Ok, Pioneer has that advanced cinema mode, which should theoretically turn 60i into 72p for movies itself. But I'd rather trust an external scaler (if you have a good one) than the display to decide about that.

Now if only Pioneer would come out with commercial 6G units, I might be very tempted!

[Kei Clark]

madshi,

While all film sources originate in 24fps (although some are improperly encoded at 30/60fps), I don't believe that the players will automatically output that frequency which would be problematic to many displays on the market. Also, I believe that the Pioneer plasma's optimal vertical frequency is either 60 or 75Hz (don't quote me on that, I'll have to check), video output at frequencies such as 72Hz can result in tearing and not suited for a digital panel with fixed matix, although it would be ideal on an analog CRT type display.

P.S. Looked up the ClearMatix Pro which is an motion-assisted de-interlacing algorithm with film detection for inverse 3:2 or 3:3 telecine.

[madshi]

[QUOTE=Kei Clark]I don't believe that the players will automatically output that frequency[/QUOTE]
They surely won't by default. But there's hope they will be able to do that optionally. The new 6G consumer Pioneers accept 1080p24 over HDMI and the 7G commercial Panasonics do, too.

[QUOTE=Kei Clark]Also, I believe that the Pioneer plasma's optimal vertical frequency is either 60 or 75Hz (don't quote me on that, I'll have to check), video output at frequencies such as 72Hz can result in tearing and not suited for a digital panel with fixed matix, although it would be ideal on an analog CRT type display.[/QUOTE]
As far as I know the Pioneer plasmas support 60Hz, 72Hz, 75Hz and 100Hz modes. That's what the "Advanced Pure Cinema" is meant for. Panasonic supports only 60Hz and 100Hz, though.

[Kei Clark]

madshi,

I checked the manual for information on the "Advanced Pure Cinema" mode, but found no mention of it.

The 504CMX lists two inputs, #1 is VGA and #2 is DVI. In the VGA mode running at output of 1280x768, the plasma is compatible with 56, 50, and 70Hz. In DVI, it is fixed at 60Hz.

[jflegert]

[QUOTE=Kei Clark]... Unlike the current cards on the market, the output signal is digital. ...[/QUOTE]
I take it you are refering to the Aurora A304 card? I thought that the A304, when used with the 504/434, had an all digital path.

Could you give a ballpark figure on the price?

Thanks,
John flegert

[madshi]

Hmmmm... Maybe the Advanced Pure Cinema mode is only available in the consumer models?

:confused:

[Kei Clark]

jflegert,

I believe that the A304 does D/A/D conversion. There is a long thread with comments here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=386397&highlight=aurora+a304

The MSRP on the card is $1599, but stay tuned as we're trying to do a pre-intro sale for AVS members at a HUGE discount.

madshi,

I believe that maybe the case, not that it is necessary on the plasma as the card has all such features built in to its own processor.

[jflegert]

[QUOTE=Kei Clark]...

I believe that the A304 does D/A/D conversion. There is a long thread with comments here:
...[/QUOTE]
Upon reading the referenced thread, I agree. Thanks.

John

[DeanFivo]

User review of HD Xplorer card

I acquired this card one week ago and have been testing and using it extensively, and thought that a short review might be useful.

It appears to be the only card available at present for use in both NTSC/60Hz and PAL/50Hz regions which is HDCP compliant, compatible with all current SD/HD 50Hz signals. It can therefore be installed in both USA 434/504CMX and International 43/50MXE1 models. I am using the card with a 50MXE1

Key Digital informed me that it will also be compatible with the new 425/505CMX.

I checked with test and programme material using HDMI, RGBHV, Component and S-Video inputs.
The board is well engineered and performance is excellent on all 50/60Hz signals and is the best I have seen with 720p and 1080i 50/60Hz on the 50MXE1, with very low noise.
It has very good color bandwidth and definition.
The processing/scaling is good with motion compensation using moving zone plate tests and has clean, smooth grey scale delineation on IRE patterns and ramps, seemingly limited only by the 50MXE1 internal processing.

The ability to calibrate color temperature separately for each input is a particularly useful feature.

Key Digital recommend using the FRC2 mode on the Pioneer, which does give the best motion performance on film and video.

I have compared this card to two other internal video cards, and to external processors driving the 50MXE1 native DVI and VGA inputs. When set up, the HD Xplorer gives better overall picture quality on film and video material, especially using the HDMI inputs. The exceptional color performance and low noise no doubt contribute to much of this.
For me it transforms the performance and usability of the Pioneer.

I had a few installation issues, but nothing serious.
Key Digital have been very helpful and prompt responding to questions.

I can post more details if anyone is interested.

[mine]

perfect review
and good news for us european MX-1 users

i read about a special discount for us avs members ....

anyone ?

I will be in Naples (Fl) from nov.05 - fev.06 :) :) :)

regards from Germany

[Kei Clark]

Here you go:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=577319

[DeanFivo]

Kei,

I put my user review on the U.K. AV Forums site "avforums" (Sorry I'm new here so still can't post URLs) in the Plasma forum for European users.
I mentioned the special offer.

There has been interest here because it is the only 50Hz HDCP card available.

Hope this helps.

[gordf]

Just wondering if this would fit/work with a 3rd generation pio like the aurora 304 card does??

[Kei Clark]

gordf,

Unfortunately, it does not work with the 3rd gens because they are physically too large.

[Jim Boden]

gordf:

Unfortunately, it seems KD abandoned their first attempt at a card, which originally was going to work with the 3rd gen panels.

I'm very disappointed, as this new one is something I'd be interested in.:(

[cougar75]

Jim,

I just sold my 503CMX and ordered the new Panny 8UK so I can do what the Pioneer won't do thanks to Pioneer. :(

[joshk]

What does the Panna do that Pioneer won't?

Josh

[life sucks]

I find it a big shame this (FIRST available) card offers no SDI option. This is a great shortfall for everyone who wants scaler + HDCP compatibility for their Pioneer displays.
Pity......

Pedro

[Plasman]

Very nice looking card! Too bad it won't work in the 503CMX. So there will be 10 inputs total - DVI and RGB on the chassis itelf, and 4 HDMI, RGB, component, S-Video and composite on the card? How do you switch between the inputs - is there a Key Remote that supplants the Pioneer remote? Does inserting the card impact the DVI chassis port for computer resolution of 1280x768?

JoshK (of PioneerUSA Engineering) - you did everything right with your expansion port this time around, but you left us 503 owners in your dust. How about a $1K upgrade coupon :)

[DeanFivo]

Plasman,

Yes, There are 10 inputs in total as you list.

You use the Pioneer remote to switch Inputs 1 & 2.
For the card inputs, you must first switch to Input 3 with the Pio. remote, then use the supplied KD remote for the other 8 inputs.
Many people will probably use the video inputs only, so they can leave the Pio. set at Input 3.
The KD remote controls all the input selections and setting functions on the card, and the Pioneer remote controls the inputs and settings on the panel.

The card does not affect Inputs 1 & 2 so you can still use native rate (and all other available PC and video signals) into these.

Hope this helps.

[Kei Clark]

Guys,

Don't want to seem like I'm dismissing any of your concerns regarding the 503 as I also owned one of those, but I really appreciate it if you guys can start a thread to complain rather than use this one that was started to discuss the HDXplorer card.

I feel (or felt) your pain on this, but it has no bearing on KD's decision to support the new slots. And for anyone looking towards the 505 models, at least there is an alternative.

**EDIT to add comments directed at THECLOSER**

Just curious as to why you feel that Pioneer left you behind. You have various options available to you like the Aurora card, various scalers that output DVI at the native 768P signal, etc. Pioneer never made cards in these commercial models that are directed at turning them into HT optimized devices, I don't see where how they've deviated from their market strategy at all.

[THECLOSER]

Kei,

Sorry for my comment's on your thread I will delete my post. If you like you can pm me and I will share my frustration with that unit. I have 4 scalers and the 5002 card so.

Sorry again.
Carlos

[Kei Clark]

Carlos,

No need to delete , I don't mind the comments, I just didn't want it to become a thread about the 503.

[oceanjumper]

Kei or anybody else,

The following questions will probably (surely) be frowned upon by the experts here, but please tell me, what advantages ("customer value") does it really give me when I supplement my yet-to-buy Pioneer PDP-434CMX with the HDXplorer?

I can see why more HDMI inputs is nice, however, can you please explain why "The primary feature of this card is of course that it turns this commercial model plasma HDCP compliant" is a good thing? What exactly does it mean to be HDCP compliant? Has that to do with copy protection? Is the PDP-434CMX not compliant currently?

Also, I don't understand why "HDXplorer also features Key Digital's ClearMatix Pro scaling for all sources including 480p/1080i/720p up to the native resolution of the panel at 1280x768" is a benefit. Is this converting not done by the PDP itself?

[PooperScooper]

HDCP compliant will allow you to connect an upscaling DVD player, or any other HDTV resolution capable device that may use HDCP (cable and sat stbs).

It's been a while since I looked at comercial Pios, but you have to buy somebody's card to get DVI/HDMI input. What comes on the panel? RGB/VGA? Component? What resolutions does the panel support without a video card?

larry

[Jim Boden]

oceanjumper:

Converting to the native resolution of a fixed pixel display usually produces the best result. I have a 503CMX with a Faroudja NRS which drives it at its native rate (SD only, unfortunately). The NRS produces the equivalent of a computer RGB signal at 60hz and sends it to the panel, which goes into “dot by dot” mode.

It appears the KD card will do the same for both SD and HD sources, so that should be a definite advantage. I thought the 434CMX native rate was 1024 x 768. If so, there must be a setting on the card for 1280/1024 x 768.

[Kei Clark]

oceanjumper,

As Larry stated above, the commercial Pioneers are not HDCP compliant, and therefore cannot display images output in 720p/1080i by DVD players and HDTV receivers. It also suffers from the double whammy of not being able accept but native resolution (and SD res of 480p) via the DVI input.

The benefit of the KD cards is also that it functions as an HDMI switcher with 4 inputs. And finally, the card uses KD's ClearMatrix Pro processing much like their HD-Leeza and HD-Hanna scalers. The card is designed to output 768p (1280 for the 50", 1024 for the 43") resolution which is the native resolution of the Pioneer, but not the typical output of most HD sources.

Finally, the PDP XX4CMX series only offer VGA and DVI inputs, no component for HD resolutions. The VGA input can handle 720p, however very few devices can output this resolution via VGA (RGBHV) and with the DVI resolution/no HDCP limitations, the panel is not consumer HT friendly.

[rogo]

"As Larry stated above, the commercial Pioneers are not HDCP compliant, and therefore cannot display images output in 720p/1080i by DVD players and HDTV receivers."

There is virtually nothing from cable or satellite that is HDCP encoded. If the panel can handle HDTV timings than the lack of HDCP wouldn't be an issue for those sources. I believe there is lack of both the HDCP and those timings -- the latter of which is a precursor to any acceptance of HDTV over DVI / HDMI.

[Kei Clark]

There is virtually nothing from cable or satellite that is HDCP encoded.

Not sure what you mean by this as I know that the DVI/HDMI outputs of satellite receivers comply with HDCP (I have Dish Network), and my understanding is that this is true for cable also, though admittedly I don't subscribe to cable and do not know this by experience.

DVD upconverting players and scalers using DVI/HDMI mostly complies with HDCP. Don't know enough about European HDTV service.

[Jim Boden]

Kei:

I understand Mark's comment. There is little or no programming which uses HDCP right now. People like me without an HDCP compliant panel/card combo will run into trouble when it's implemented. When that happens, we'll have to do something about it. My SA 8300HD DVR cable box has an HDMI port, which does not use HDCP but presumably it will support it some time in the future.

[Kei Clark]

Jim,

I had no idea that the cable companies have yet to implement HDCP, hopefully for you they never do.

[Plasman]

One might ask why home theater users would bother with the commercial Pioneer 50" model at all, especially when the price has come down substantially on consumer 50" Pio and Panny models with HDCP built in. Here is my reasoning: If the Key digital card works as advertised, the upcoming Pio 505CMX (when is it going to be out, BTW?) is unique - I'll have multiple HDMI inputs AND a working DVI port for the PC (ala a regular LCD desktop monitor) which uses a real Windows resolution for a crystal clear PC desktop - 1280x768.

[Kei Clark]

Plasman,

Is there a limitation on the consumer models with native resolution 1:1 pixel mapping?

Jim,

Are you using a scaler to upconver the HDMI out from your cable to 768p?

[rogo]

[QUOTE=Jim Boden]Kei:

I understand Mark's comment. There is little or no programming which uses HDCP right now. People like me without an HDCP compliant panel/card combo will run into trouble when it's implemented. When that happens, we'll have to do something about it. My SA 8300HD DVR cable box has an HDMI port, which does not use HDCP but presumably it will support it some time in the future.[/QUOTE]

Jim, spot on assessment.

The threat of HDCP being turned on is there, but it's not currently in use on cable or satellite (except for testing).

I'm sure one day it will just happen on some PPV channel or somesuch.

[Kei Clark]

The threat of HDCP being turned on is there, but it's not currently in use on cable or satellite (except for testing).

Which Sat boxes with DVI/HDMI does not have HDCP? I own the Dish 942 and it definitely complies with HDCP. My understanding was that the HD-TiVO as well as the Samsung DirecTV boxes are both HDCP Compliant.

[cobrabob]

I am new to this very informative and useful forum, just a bit overwhelmed by the in-depth and highly technical information. I am also (like oceanjumper) doing research prior to purchasing a PDP-504CMX for my new home. Realizing my lack of knowledge I've come here to learn but am overwhelmed. I believe I've made the right choice of display, the problem is the video card enhancement. So much to learn, can someone offer three clear choices for this option that I may reseach your best recommendations? Budget is a concern as I'm not an audio/video enthusiast, just interested in getting the best bang for my $$$ without spending more for the card than I will on the set. I am a CNC machinist and programmer with lots of electronics repair and analysis background so I'm literate, just not an expert. Your insights are very much appreciated.

[Kei Clark]

cobrabob,

As far as I know, there are currently three companies that make add-in cards for Pioneer 4Gen commercial plasma:

Pioneer PDA-5003 (http://www.pioneerindustrialav.com/ims/product/overview/0,,196140362_196140451,00.html)
Pioneer PDA-5004 (http://www.pioneerindustrialav.com/ims/product/overview/0,,196140362_196140449,00.html)
Aurora Multimedia A304HDCP (http://www.auroramultimedia.com/web/?section=products&product=a304)
Aurora Multimedia TPV-1000Pro (http://www.auroramultimedia.com/web/?section=products&product=tvp1000pro)
Key Digital HD-Xplorer discussed here (http://www.keydigital.com/Itemdesc.asp?CartId={14F6C19D-F2DF-480E-B11F-7CDEEVEREST66F1D9DC}&ic=HDXplorer&Tp=)

[Jim Boden]

Kei:

I don't use the HDMI output because my 503CMX/5002 card combo doesn't support it. I do know HDCP is enabled on the 8300HD's HDMI output. To me, there is a difference between being compliant, which it is, and in use, which it is not.

I feed SD through my NRS, which works very well, and watch HD via component connected to the panel's 5002 card. When HDCP becomes a reality, I'll be looking for a card or scalar which supports that feature. Until then, I'm happy.:D

[Plasman]

Kei, regarding PC use and 1:1 pixel mapping, here are my observations (others please correct me if your expereince differs):

1) Except for Pioneer, most other 50" plasmas are 1366 or 1368x768 and only a one British brand of video card will offer that resolution under Windows. Many people have tried to use Powerstrip software with variable success. Pioneer offers true WXGA as its native rate - 1280x768 which nearly all cards support. So you are way ahead of the game with Pioneer if you like using your PC or Mac with the panel.

2) Pioneer commercial plasmas are the only current plasmas I've seen with a true DVI port for PC resolutions (ala a desktop LCD display) for a pixel perfect desktop. The DVI/HDCP and HDMI ports on other models are now pretty much used for video only resolutions. Although you can find cabling to go from your video card DVI-D to the panel, it doesn't mean you are going to be happy with what you see.

3) The RGB port (DB-15, VGA) is on the front of some new plasmas - which is fine for occasional laptop use - but not aesthetically good for home theater PC's.

[oceanjumper]

Hey all, thanks for the responses (and cobrabob for the moral support - I no longer feel alone in this thread :o )

Anyway, I was merely thinking why would I need the HDXplorer? I currently have the Scientific Atlantic Explorer 3250 cable box which is HD. It has a DVI port out and component. I was going to buy the JVC RX-702 receiver which does HDMI switching and can convert signals (or an Pioneer Elite VSX-74TXvi or Yamaha RX-V2600 or RX-1600 which -I believe- can also do video conversion to HDMI out).
Furthermore, I was going to get the OPPO OPDV97 dvd player which is amazing (DVI out, plays tons of formats incl. DIVX and has Faroudja upconversion to 720p and 1080i).

From the specifications I understood that the Pioneer PDP-434CMX has one DVI-D input (=digital RGB signal; not compatible with HDCP). As such, as OPPO does the video conversion and the receiver can convert the signal from the Explorer, would it not allow me to get just a panel w/o further features (and connect the receiver to the DVI-D input on the panel)?? Hence my struggle to see the value of the HDXplorer (or any other add-on card).

As far as the HDCP, if my cable company is going to spit out copy-protected signals, shouldn't they not need to provide me a different cable box or something? I cannot imagine that if it would require all consumers to get a new HDCP compatible telly... If so, many will be very unhappy...

If you all feel it is a better bet to buy the PDP-4350HD (which has 2 HDMI inputs), I am all up for it (or I could buy the Panny TH42PHD8UK with the HDMI terminal board). I just didn't need the speakers and stand and thought I could save some $$ with the CMX (which I like for price, is one inch bigger than Panny's 42 and has good reviews).

[PooperScooper]

oceanjumper,
If the DVI-D port on the 434 supports 480p/720p/1080i HDTV standard resolutions then you should be ok. In other words, is the port meant for PC compatibility (important for commercial displays) or is it meant for "TV" (or both)?

larry

[Jim Boden]

oceanjumper:

If the 434CMX is like the previous gen commercial panels, it doesn't support video via DVI, so you need a different card, like the KD one. It's also possible Pioneer has one, but I don't know.

[oceanjumper]

Thx Larry,

The technical specs say the display has a native resolution of 1024 x 768 (XGA) and it can handle a wide range of "PC signals" (VGA, XGA, WXGA, SXGA, UXGA) but mentioning of 720p or 1080i.

Now I feel really stupid but does this in any way relate to 720p and 1080i?? Or are we talking two different kind of input signals? I never realized that...

When I look at Pioneer's website at the Elite (consumer) models, they say that e.g. PRO-920HD model has a full 1024x768 resolution but no mentioning of 720p.

How is a non-techy like me to make the right decision??

[oceanjumper]

Thx Jim,
I think I start to understand this whole concept now... The optional terminal boards from Pioneer mentioned in their brochure do not have a DVI port. Well, there goes my choice of PDP-434CMX!!

I guess that leaves me the Panny + HDMI board or a consumer panel... Glad I asked here first before buying... Thanks y'all

PS. I realize I can also buy the HDXplorer with the 434CMX but I don't really like 4 cables going directly into the panel... I really want to connect everything to the receiver (or media box) and then just one HDMI cable (and power cable of course) going to the display

[Jim Boden]

oceanjumper:

From your requirements, and if you prefer Pioneer, you should be looking at one of their consumer panels. I'm not up on the latest models, but some or all of them come with a media box with one cable going to the panel. They should also support HDMI, HDCP, etc. For your 3250 cable box, you need an HDMI to DVI converter cable for connection to the media box. This will not pass through audio like HDMI will, but you should be able to connect the audio from the 3250 directly to the media box.

[oceanjumper]

Thx Jim,
The PDP-4350HD is very high on my list. Also the 930 Elite just came out

[oliverlim]

Kei,

Would like to know a few things on this card.

1. What comb filter does it use for PAL & NTSC composite input? Please make it a 3D adaptive comb filter for both PAL & NTSC

2. Does it accept Native Resolution at both 50 and 60hz and sends it direct to the PIO panel without any processing? I have a Lumagen HDP and am not really sure which has the better scaling and deinterlacing.

3. Is there a way to download the user manual?

4. Is there a brouchue that shows what each of the features in the right side of the card brouchue? E.g. ClearMatrix etc

Thanks!
Oliver

[big mal]

Are there any other users out there trialling the HD Explorer card that would care to comment?

[Jim Scarbrough]

Alcorn McBride makes a SDI / HD-SDI card for the Pio CMX. :D

The HD Xplorer provides 4 HDMI inputs, as well as 1 each Composite, Component, S-video, RGB (DB15), plus analog & digital audio in and out. It is a complete switcher/scaler solution.

To everyone who asked why buy a more expensive card like this when the Pio cards will scale video to the panel's resolution:

Taking a lower resolution video source and filling a higher res display is much the same as stretching a picture on your computer screen. It generally looks like crap. The scaler must do a lot of math to deinterlace (if not progressive to start), then make up as much as 70% of the pixels onscreen. They do this by using math. And they do it at least as many times a second as the framerate (let's say 60Hz for most digital displays). A better scaler will have better formulas to do the math and will have better components, analogous to a high end computer. They will also be programmed with more of the features needed for their particular market.

So... yes, the Pioneer cards will put the picture on the screen. The Key Digital card (or any mid to high end scaler) will make it look cleaner, clearer, and better.

Kei Clark - The Pioneer consumer plasmas, like most consumer displays, have limited options for aspect ratio. Not sure what options the latest 60 series units have for aspect. Thanks for this thread and all the info you've shared!

[Kei Clark]

Jim,

I've been going back and forth between a scaler set to 1280x768 into the DVI vs. the HD-Xplorer, using a distribution amp to feed the same signal to both using HD sources, and I must say that the attention KD paid to the scaling accuracy and optimization specifically to the native rate produces a noticeable improvement in output quality. I suspect it has everything to do with timing. It is also the first time I paid attention to the integrator menu of the 504CMX, which needs to be modified during the set-up.

From what I hear, the card on the PDP-505CMX should be even better with the First Surface Filter, although I haven't spent any time with that model...yet.

[madshi]

[QUOTE=Kei Clark]From what I hear, the card on the PDP-505CMX should be even better with the First Surface Filter, although I haven't spent any time with that model...yet.[/QUOTE]
Do you know whether the 505CMX uses a 5G or 6G panel? Thanks very much!

[Kei Clark]

It uses a 5G.

[madshi]

:mad:

rogo hinted that it might use 6G. So it seems he was wrong...

Share on Pioneer. Why are they using last years tech for new models? That rules the 505CMX out for me. Too bad black levels... :(

[Plasman]

Really, the 505CMX will not use the same panel as the new consumer models? Say it isn't so....

[Kei Clark]

I'm not that familiar with the consumer panels, but I hear the 505CMXC will use the same as the 5G glass as found on the previous Elite model.

[big mal]

[QUOTE=big mal]Are there any other users out there trialling the HD Explorer card that would care to comment?[/QUOTE]
anyone?

[oliverlim]

Kei,

Wonder if you had any luck with a request that a number of us has been asking for. Basically Native Rate for the 43" and 50" models input via HDMI? A number of us is using HTPC and possibily other scalers that we prefer to the one in the Xplorer but double scaling is just preventing us from getting the best PQ possible.

Thanks!
Oliver

[Kei Clark]

Oliver,

If you're talking about the consumer HDMI models, I really don't know. I never used them and most likely won't as I am a PC enthusiast and have an HTPC connected to mine. It sound like from other members comments that those models do have problems with native rate, but the solution maybe PowerStrip away....or not.

If you are talking about the input of the KD-Explorer card, it does not like the frequency of my PC, but thats no biggie because I use the DVI (and occasionally VGA) input for that purpose, and its pixel perfect.

[oliverlim]

Hi Kei,

I am talking about the KD- Xplorer card for the PIO. I know that that the DVI on the PIO accepts NR. But some of the reason we gotten the card was for the HDCP HDMI as well as some reports that the Slot1 on the PIO together with the KD-Xplorer results in even better PQ due to the Chroma bandwidth and less noise due to the interface between the KD-Xplorer and the PIO expansion slot. Of course with the many DVI/HDMI DVD players coming out, it just seems stupid that regardless of whatever, there will always be double scaling when using the HDMI on the KD-Xplorer as it cannot scale to or accept NR input.

Oliver

[ballz3]

sorry to rip up an old(er) thread, but I just ordered the 505CMX, the HDXplorer card, and the Harmony 659 remote.

now, it is my understanding (from the xplorer manual) that you need to use both remotes (not talking about the harmony) to control the TV. the manual says the xplorer remote doesnt turn the TV off, so i'll need the pioneer remote to turn the TV off?? is that true?

if so, will the harmony remote control both the TV and the xplorer card?

sorry if this sounds dumb or confusing, but I need a little help from the experienced users who have all this equipment I am using.

thanks a lot for your help! i'm getting the TV tomorrow!! woohoo

[ballz3]

i finally found answer to this. I picked up the harmony 659 and tried it out, and under A/V switch there is the key digital hd explorer. When I get the TV, I will test it, but it looks good already!

so, i will just use the harmony!

[dglavin96]

I just purchased this card for my Pioneer 505-CMX. I have my Toshiba HD-DVD player connected to one of the HDMI inputs and am able to get an HD picture. I have my Directv receiver connected through both the HMDI input and analog RGB. I get an accurate picture through the analog connection but not the HDMI connection. The picture is way off and the color looks like a cartoon, for lack of a better desciption. I spoke with Key Digital and they feel the problem originates from the satelite receiver. I am using the Directv/Hughes HR10-250 HD DVR. I'd appreciate any thoughts on what could be causing the problem.

[Plasman]

First off, I don't know anything about the card or its setup. But I have an HR10-250 too and I believe you cannot use both the analog and HDMI connection at once. Try disconnecting the analog.

As for the cartoon look, sounds like your input is set incorrectly on the Pioneer menu as RGB.

[dglavin96]

I spoke with the manufacturer of the card, who instructed me to set the pioneer to WXGA. Once I did this, the picture was fine from my HD-DVD player and the analog connection from the HR10-250. However, I still could not get a proper picture from the HDMI connection. I've researched quite a bit since my original post yesterday and learned that many people experience problems with the HDMI port on the HR10-250. The problem is apparently caused by poor seating of the hdmi card within the unit. The only solution appears to be to get a replacement unit from Directv. I will probably pursue this while I wait for their new HR20 to be released.

[itigap]

[QUOTE=dglavin96]I spoke with the manufacturer of the card, who instructed me to set the pioneer to WXGA. Once I did this, the picture was fine from my HD-DVD player and the analog connection from the HR10-250. However, I still could not get a proper picture from the HDMI connection. I've researched quite a bit since my original post yesterday and learned that many people experience problems with the HDMI port on the HR10-250. The problem is apparently caused by poor seating of the hdmi card within the unit. The only solution appears to be to get a replacement unit from Directv. I will probably pursue this while I wait for their new HR20 to be released.[/QUOTE]
Can you please comment on the PQ of your display with the HD Explorer card. What improvements does it provide? Any comparisons with/without the card? Does it improve both SD and HD? Strengths? Weaknesses?

I have considered this card, probably with the next generation glass, and would appreciate your insights and observations.

Thanks and cheers, :)

Gary

[int3]

I am debating between getting the 505CMX with the HDXplorer card or wait until 507CMX is released (not sure when).
The one knock, I heard about the 505CMX is its black levels. Does the HDXplorer card enhance the black levels on this panel?
Also, I read the thread, but I did not find any satisfactory answer about double scaling. Is there any option available in the card to turn off its scaling - sort of allow passthrough mode?

[Jim Boden]

[QUOTE=int3]I am debating between getting the 505CMX with the HDXplorer card or wait until 507CMX is released (not sure when).
The one knock, I heard about the 505CMX is its black levels. Does the HDXplorer card enhance the black levels on this panel?
Also, I read the thread, but I did not find any satisfactory answer about double scaling. Is there any option available in the card to turn off its scaling - sort of allow passthrough mode?[/QUOTE]
It's highly unlikely the HDXplorer will affect black levels. Black levels are inherent to the panel itself. Calibration can produce better black levels by getting brightness and contrast set properly.

The HDXplorer will drive the panel at its native rate, which means the panel does no scaling.

[jrbd90]

[QUOTE=int3]I am debating between getting the 505CMX with the HDXplorer card or wait until 507CMX is released (not sure when).
The one knock, I heard about the 505CMX is its black levels. Does the HDXplorer card enhance the black levels on this panel?
Also, I read the thread, but I did not find any satisfactory answer about double scaling. Is there any option available in the card to turn off its scaling - sort of allow passthrough mode?[/QUOTE]

The 507cmx is supposed to be this month and the 607 next month. Again, supposed to be...

[int3]

[QUOTE=Jim Boden]It's highly unlikely the HDXplorer will affect black levels. Black levels are inherent to the panel itself. Calibration can produce better black levels by getting brightness and contrast set properly.

The HDXplorer will drive the panel at its native rate, which means the panel does no scaling.[/QUOTE]

Jim, Thanks for the info.

[QUOTE=jrbd90]The 507cmx is supposed to be this month and the 607 next month. Again, supposed to be....[/QUOTE]
I saw this in the press release. But, the online vendors I talked to mentioned that they are not sure if it is going to be released this month. :)

[c627627]

Why does Pioneer not advertise the fact that they have the only 50" Plasma that has no ghosting whatsoever because they use a thin film filter bonded directly to plasma glass.

All other 50" Plasmas use mirrors which create ghosting when black backgrounds come on and you're looking at the Plasma from a slight angle.

[int3]

This is a follow up to my earlier question regarding black levels on 505CMX and HDXplorer card.
I was looking at the specs of the HDXplorer card, and one of the features it has is "Digital Picture Enhancement." On the KD website, this is explained as
DPE (Digital Picture Enhancement)
Advanced algorithm that adjusts both positive and negative gamma, for a significant improvement in the video image and enhanced black level.

Any comments on this? Did anyone get a chance to see the black level performance with and without the HDXplorer card?

c627627,
In addition to Pioneer, I believe NEC's 42XR4 also uses a film filter bonded to the glass to remove reflections.

[c627627]

Yeah I know about the 42", interestingly LG 42" has no reflections either, but Pioneer has the only 50".

[Cleveland Plasma]

Just a note that Key digital is phasing out the old HD Explorer Card for the new HD Explorer KD-PC1 card. [COLOR=DarkRed]The main difference is a firmware update.[/COLOR] <<<CLICK HERE>>> (http://www.keydigital.com/ProductDetail.aspx?categorycode=100&itemno=KD-PC1&productname=New%20Products)

http://www.keydigital.com/images/Video%20Processors/HD_Xplorer_v1_a.jpg (http://www.keydigital.com/ProductDetail.aspx?categorycode=100&itemno=KD-PC1&productname=New%20Products)