Panny TH42PM50U any info?

[coach2win]

Panny TH42PM50U at Costco saw it today its edtv good price. any information about this tv? cant find that model number anywhere.

[RandyWalters]

[QUOTE=coach2win]Panny TH42PM50U at Costco saw it today its edtv good price. any information about this tv? cant find that model number anywhere.[/QUOTE]Panasonic often assigns special model numbers to places like Costco, probably so CC and BB don't have to price match. If it's a consumer ED, it's most likely just a TH-42PD50U with a different part number. It's possible that it's missing some features that the 42PD50U has, but that would be a hard trick since the 42PD50U is already pretty stripped down already :D

Read up on the 42PD50U and see if you think it's the same unit.

[ben88]

I saw this unit. It has a dark bezel, unlike the one circuit city sells. It also said manufactured in aug 2005. It had hdmi and 2 component inputs. I did not see if it had a cable card slot.

[RandyWalters]

[QUOTE=ben88]I saw this unit. It has a dark bezel, unlike the one circuit city sells. It also said manufactured in aug 2005. It had hdmi and 2 component inputs. I did not see if it had a cable card slot.[/QUOTE]So does it look like the TH-42PX50U then?

[ben88]

[QUOTE=RandyWalters]So does it look like the TH-42PX50U then?[/QUOTE]

Yes, exactly like it, but it is definitely an EDTV.

[Rolodoc]

If this is a 8th gen glass, black bezel, ATSC tuner, with costco return policy then I think this is a great deal. I'm concerned that it may not be 8th gen since costco usually sell the previous years model.

[wxw101]

I believe someone mentioned an estimated price of about $2000. That would not be consistant with the downward shift in MSRP pricing, especially for EDTV.

[offandon]

Last years Pannys included a model I believe was only available from warehouse stores like costco ... I think it was the 42PA25U as opposed to the 42PD25U ... the difference being it had no ATSC tuner. I would imagine there is some similar function difference here.

[offandon]

This was posted at another forum...

Projected arrival date of 10/6, Panasonic model # th42pm50u, ED plasma, $xxxx, sku 904250

If you go tosearch on fatwallet you can read the price with it ....

[kingfrog]

[QUOTE=Rolodoc]If this is a 8th gen glass, black bezel, ATSC tuner, with costco return policy then I think this is a great deal. I'm concerned that it may not be 8th gen since costco usually sell the previous years model.[/QUOTE]

It around 1700 at Costco
They are selling this years Aquos LCDs. They have both older and newer stock.But the manufacturers do switch model numbers for the warehouses.

[tbooth]

Do they have an 8th gen HD model as well?

[gotchaforce]

can anyone PM me the price of this model? aint on the costco website it seems...

okay i got the price

thats a friggin looooooow price, only $200 over the online retailer i was going to get it from, and the warranty is more than worth the $200. Damn you costco! :mad:

[Jobronie]

[QUOTE=gotchaforce]okay i got the price

thats a friggin looooooow price, only $200 over the online retailer i was going to get it from, and the warranty is more than worth the $200. Damn you costco! :mad:[/QUOTE]$200 more for Costco over an e-tailer, fine, especially if the Etailer is charging for shipping. $100 less then the big stores' sale prices, better.

But the 42pd50 has been showing up at B&M special/holiday sales for $200 less than the Costco price. At that amount, I'd really have to think about it.

Right now the Philips 42pf7320a is only $100 more than the 42pm50. Now that's one to think about. Opinions......?

[deepinton]

The Costco panny is EDTV and does not have tuners of any kind.

[Jobronie]

[QUOTE=deepinton]does not have tuners of any kind.[/QUOTE]No offense, but source please? This is the first I've seen it written anywhere that this TV has no tuner; all things pointed to it being a 42pd50 with maybe one or two fewer feature, if for no other reason than the format of the model number........

[ShuHorN]

I checked it out at Costco last night (Cypress, CA) and it clearly states on the box TH42PM50U: Requires external set top box... I couldn't get a clear view of the back panel, but I didn't see a coax connector. Also, it has a dark grey bezel, not black.

[offandon]

Total speculation here ... but if the PD units have a digital tuner and last years PA units have only an analog tuner, isn't it possible that a PM unit is just a Monitor with no tuner?

[RandyWalters]

[QUOTE=ShuHorN]I checked it out at Costco last night (Cypress, CA) and it clearly states on the box TH42PM50U: Requires external set top box... I couldn't get a clear view of the back panel, but I didn't see a coax connector. Also, it has a dark grey bezel, not black.[/QUOTE]This conflicts with what Ben88 said in post #5 above. Two people have seen it - one describes a Consumer model and the other describes a Commercial model.

[jcinzano]

it would be great if costco started carrying a full panny line and not just the EDs...

[ShuHorN]

[QUOTE=RandyWalters]This conflicts with what Ben88 said in post #5 above. Two people have seen it - one describes a Consumer model and the other describes a Commercial model.[/QUOTE]

The PM50U is in fact a consumer model, just like the PD50U but without any tuners and a dark grey bezel. It still has the standard silver bottom speakers.

[aranganath]

[QUOTE=offandon]Total speculation here ... but if the PD units have a digital tuner and last years PA units have only an analog tuner, isn't it possible that a PM unit is just a Monitor with no tuner?[/QUOTE]

I would say that was an excellent deduction. I'm torn between picking this up or spending twice as much for a 50" HD Panasonic

[RandyWalters]

[QUOTE=ShuHorN]The PM50U is in fact a consumer model, just like the PD50U but without any tuners and a dark grey bezel. It still has the standard silver bottom speakers.[/QUOTE]Ah, that explains it. Thanks !

[Superastro]

[QUOTE=ShuHorN]The PM50U is in fact a consumer model, just like the PD50U but without any tuners and a dark grey bezel. It still has the standard silver bottom speakers.[/QUOTE]

ShuHorN is right on. I went to the Seattle Costco last night and took a look at the TH42PM50U. It has no built in tuners at all. It's just an ED monitor. Cosmetically it looks like the PX50 but the screen is framed in dark grey instead of black. Speakers are still silver.

[cucoo]

[QUOTE=Superastro]Cosmetically it looks like the PX50 but the screen is framed in dark grey instead of black. Speakers are still silver.[/QUOTE]

I confirm this. I saw it last night.

[Jobronie]

Wow, no tuners on an ED for that kind of money. How the heck did Costco arrive at that price, when the major chains have it with tuners for only a hundred bucks more every few weeks?

This model has sure gone south in my mind.

Thanks for all the clarifications.......

[iBleedGarnet]

No kiddin', Jabroni. You'd figure their starting price would be somewhere between $1,500 - $1,600.

[aranganath]

It might be that they'll show up in a coupon book soon. With $300 off or something.

My local Costco has them on order, but hasn't received any yet. I'm pretty interested. I don't really care about tuners and buying at Costco is worth a good bit to me.

[jspirate]

I am very interested in this unit also, but only if they drop the price some (maybe a coupon). 90% of the TV we watch is via DVR so I have no need for an in TV tuner at all; however, I expect a discount relevant to the unit with a tuner :cool:

Shheeesh, the truth be told, I don't know what I want. Today I went to look at a 50 incher. So now I am considering the pd50u (or equivalent), the 42px50u or the 50px50u. I don't have a clue how I got to this state of uncertainty! :eek:

[BarnacleBill]

[QUOTE=jspirate]Shheeesh, the truth be told, I don't know what I want. Today I went to look at a 50 incher. So now I am considering the pd50u (or equivalent), the 42px50u or the 50px50u. I don't have a clue how I got to this state of uncertainty! :eek:[/QUOTE]
I's easy, just keep readings these forums. :D The more you know... the harder it is.

[tbooth]

[QUOTE=BarnacleBill]I's easy, just keep readings these forums. :D The more you know... the harder it is.[/QUOTE]

No kidding! I was pretty dead set on the 42PHD8UK, now I can't decide between the PX50U and the Pioneer 4360 :( . I also thought I found the perfect DVD player (Oppo), then I read about the macroblocking on the Panasonic PDPs. The more I read the less I want to buy. I guess I just need to spend time watching each one and pick whichever one looks best. ;)

[plefkow]

Do you think this th42pm50u (costco) is okay as a second tv for the bedroom? Not sure about ED? I plan on getting a 50 for the family room sometime in the next 24 months, but wanted a tv in the bedroom where I watch dvr. Dont think I would really get much value for HD. Anybody have any thoughts? Also, is there a website where I can see a picture of this costco panny? thanks pwl

[Bud-man]

I'm off to costco's today, i'll take pictures of the front and back with my Razr.
This prob means the death of my PA, might be a few left and another price adjustment!!
Remember guys Costco price protects your purchase as long as they sell it, so i'm sure they will sell this for at least a yr, you will get alot of money back in that time.
I use a DVR so the lack of tuners is fine with me,what it wont have is pip, which a rarely use anyway.
Main reason i like the ntsc tuner is the motorola dvr makes the sd channels look crappy at times, just hit the channel button and the tuner works great.

[Bud-man]

No PM50 in my Northern CT Costco, still the PA25u, well thanks for getting me exicted and going there for a look, got another $106 price adjust on my PA and bought well over that in meats....great Steaks tonight!!

[coach2win]

Going to buy one for the wife its her B day for the bedroom she wants a new tv in there. Has anyone bought on yet? And how do you like it
Thanks

[plefkow]

Does anyone have the exact measurements of this Costco Panny (Projected arrival date of 10/6, Panasonic model # th42pm50u, ED plasma, sku 904250)? How many speakers does it have? Also, if I am using a time warner dvd and a seperated dvd player, will the tv allow me to switch between them? Ie will I need anything else besides cables and a bracket to get this setup going? Will this display take regular brackets? Lastly, is there a manual online for it yet? Thanks Phil

[Will Collier]

Just to verify... Costco is only carrying ED versions of the 42" Panasonics at this time? (and that's if you can find them) No 50" models?

Thanks, all...

[RandyWalters]

[QUOTE=plefkow]Does anyone have the exact measurements of this Costco Panny (Projected arrival date of 10/6, Panasonic model # th42pm50u, ED plasma, $1700, sku 904250)? How many speakers does it have? Also, if I am using a time warner dvd <DVR?> and a seperated dvd player, will the tv allow me to switch between them? Ie will I need anything else besides cables and a bracket to get this setup going? Will this display take regular brackets? Lastly, is there a manual online for it yet? Thanks Phil[/QUOTE]Since the guys here are saying it looks exactly like the TH-42PX50U only with gray bezel instead of black then it uses the same cabinet and it will presumably just have the two speakers like the regular PD50/PX50 models.

Since it uses the same cabinet as the 42PX50U, it will be 42.1" wide and 27.5" high without a table stand. If it comes with the table stand then it will be 30.1" high overall just like my 42PX50U. I presume it comes with the stand since it's a consumer model.

Presumably it will have enough inputs to handle your DVR and DVD. Most likely it will have two Component inputs and two S-Video/Composite inputs like the regular models, and maybe even has the HDMI if they didn't cheap out. I haven't noticed anyone list the inputs but hopefully Bud-Man got good pics of the Jack Pack on his mission and will post them soon.

[rkundla]

[QUOTE=Rolodoc]If this is a 8th gen glass, black bezel, ATSC tuner, with costco return policy then I think this is a great deal. I'm concerned that it may not be 8th gen since costco usually sell the previous years model.[/QUOTE]

The PM50 does not have an ATSC tuner, just the line inputs. (dual component, HDMI and dual s-video/composite)

My dad picked one up this weekend at Costco and it looked really good at the store, even better when we hooked it up at home.

[Bud-man]

Looked in both my local Costco's, still no PM, 1 store had a 50px25 thou, somebody said here Costco's didnt sell Panny HD models......Seems stock varies by store.
Weird there isnt even a NTSC tuner like my PA, alot of people wont even buy a tv without a tuner.
I'll check my local Sam's club as they sell a few panny's

[lifeinabox]

[QUOTE=RandyWalters]Since the guys here are saying it looks exactly like the TH-42PX50U only with gray bezel instead of black then it uses the same cabinet and it will presumably just have the two speakers like the regular PD50/PX50 models.

Since it uses the same cabinet as the 42PX50U, it will be 42.1" wide and 27.5" high without a table stand. If it comes with the table stand then it will be 30.1" high overall just like my 42PX50U. I presume it comes with the stand since it's a consumer model.

Presumably it will have enough inputs to handle your DVR and DVD. Most likely it will have two Component inputs and two S-Video/Composite inputs like the regular models, and maybe even has the HDMI if they didn't cheap out. I haven't noticed anyone list the inputs but hopefully Bud-Man got good pics of the Jack Pack on his mission and will post them soon.[/QUOTE]

Just got back from Costco and saw this model. Although I didn't write down the measurements, I do recall the package saying 42" wide. It does come with a silver stand, so I would assume the 30" height is accurate.

I can also confirm it comes with HDMI.

Didn't see any Panny 50" models although they did have a (presumably) older gen Pio 50" and the Pio 4304.

I'm seriously considering picking up this model for our bedroom. Looked good in-store (for what that's worth) in comparison with the Maxent and Pio next to it and I'll gladly pay a few more bucks for Costco's excellent return policy.

[Mr.Lawrence]

I just saw this TV today at Costco, however, what I saw had a different apperance then what some have described. The unit I saw had a model number TH42PM50U, but it was all silver and had a single non-detachable speaker at the bottom. I don't know if it had a tuner or not (forgot to check), but it did have HDMI, 2 component, 2 S-Video.

It looked really good in the store. It was positioned between a Pioneer and a Maxtent (sp?).

[ben88]

I saw this tv again. It was the best looking tv at costco. It looked like all the tv's were connected via component cables. I don't know what they were broadcasting, but it was the saem on all tv's. This set looked way better than the 50" vizio or 42" maxent which were also connected via component. I don't know how much this really means though.

[Macfan424]

[QUOTE=Bud-man]...Weird there isnt even a NTSC tuner like my PA, alot of people wont even buy a tv without a tuner...[/QUOTE]
The FCC banned sales of TV sets over 36" made after July 1 with only a NTSC tuner. They now must have an ATSC tuner or none at all (i.e. monitors).

[RandyWalters]

[QUOTE=Macfan424]The FCC banned sales of TV sets over 36" made after July 1 with only a NTSC tuner. They now must have an ATSC tuner or none at all (i.e. monitors).[/QUOTE]So Panasonic gets around this ruling by making this Costco model without any sort of tuner at all - effectively making it a monitor. With no PC input.

I wonder if the remote control has number keys (0-9) like on the Commercial model that also has no tuner?

[NorCalReef]

Excuse my ignorance...I am seriously looking into getting this for my liviving room. I have done reaserch and panasonic seems to be one of the top performing plasmas on the market. Would it matter to me if this does not come with a tuner? I am going to run DirecTV with a DVR. What advantages would there be to having a tuner?

Thanks

[rkundla]

[QUOTE=RandyWalters]I wonder if the remote control has number keys (0-9) like on the Commercial model that also has no tuner?[/QUOTE]

The remote on this plasma is a squat ugly little thing. Has about 10 buttons total on it. No numbers. A cursor pad with enter key, buttons for things like aspect ratio, input, etc... You can't use it to control any other piece of equipment.

[RandyWalters]

[QUOTE=NorCalReef]Excuse my ignorance...I am seriously looking into getting this for my liviving room. I have done reaserch and panasonic seems to be one of the top performing plasmas on the market. Would it matter to me if this does not come with a tuner? I am going to run DirecTV with a DVR. What advantages would there be to having a tuner?[/QUOTE]Having the tuner might enable you to watch TV over the roof antenna if you lose your satellite signal during a hard rain or a bad storm which is when you really want to watch TV. Or you might be able to pull in HD or other local channels that you can't get with satellite. Or later you might want to move this TV to a secondary room that does not have a satellite receiver and just use it with an antenna. Or you might move to another dwelling that makes it impossible to get satellite and you have to switch to cable. I like having it "just in case" and i've already had to use the OTA tuner when a car crash caused the cable to be out for several hours one morning. I can also pull in UPN-HD and the WB-HD that i don't get with cable.

Or none of these possibilities or scenarios exist in your world and you realize that you have absolutely no need for a tuner. You could always use an old VCR for an emergency OTA standard-def tuner on the Costco model.

[jcpzero]

I find with an cableco dual tuner HD PVR, there is no longer a need for a tuner in the TV.

JCPZero

[Bud-man]

[QUOTE=jcpzero]I find with an cableco dual tuner HD PVR, there is no longer a need for a tuner in the TV.

JCPZero[/QUOTE]

My same situation too, no need ever for a tuner here...i'm a DVR for lifer!!
Somebody said above only 1 speaker detachable?..............
If you still need pc input and a tuner get the costco PA25, has a real nice picture, people here get carried away with the newer sets....newer must be better!

[Jobronie]

[QUOTE=Bud-man]
If you still need pc input and a tuner get the costco PA25, has a real nice picture, people here get carried away with the newer sets....newer must be better![/QUOTE]PA25 has been OOS at almost every Costco for over a month now.

Tho I did see one NIB last weekend in an out of town Costco; tag was back up.

[jspirate]

[QUOTE=jcpzero]I find with an cableco dual tuner HD PVR, there is no longer a need for a tuner in the TV.

JCPZero[/QUOTE]

Well said. Once you go DVR you NEVER go back. On the flip side, I suspect that one day this functionality will be in a cable card. I sometimes wonder if one of my plasmas might take advantage of such an advance.

[Bud-man]

I saw somewhere online a plasma with a builtin 120 gig hard drive -dvr .......?

[RandyWalters]

[QUOTE=jcpzero]I find with an cableco dual tuner HD PVR, there is no longer a need for a tuner in the TV. JCPZero[/QUOTE]Reasons why a built-in tuner is still handy to have along with a cable co DVR:

You turn on your TV one stormy morning and find there's no cable service or no picture because the cable is out for several hours because a car crash across town knocked down an very important telephone pole and cable service will be out for the rest of the night and following day when they install a new pole. BTDT.

Or because they had an equipment melt-down at headquarters and "Technicians are working on the proble and hope to restore service soon". And it takes 12 hours before they get it fixed. BTDT too.

You want to record two separate shows while watching a 3rd show over the antena or cable input.

You want to be able to pull in the local HD channels OTA that aren't offered by your cable company.

You want to make limited cable or OTA access available to company or children when you don't want them using or screwing with your DVR (hide it's remote) which still allows them to watch regular TV using the TV's remote.

You think that someday you might move the TV to another room or move to a new home where you'll need the tuner.

Makes it easier to sell later too.

[jspirate]

[QUOTE=RandyWalters]Reasons why a built-in tuner is still handy to have along with a cable co DVR:

You turn on your TV one stormy morning and find there's no cable service or no picture because the cable is out for several hours because a car crash across town knocked down an very important telephone pole and cable service will be out for the rest of the night and following day when they install a new pole. BTDT.

Or because they had an equipment melt-down at headquarters and "Technicians are working on the proble and hope to restore service soon". And it takes 12 hours before they get it fixed. BTDT too.

You want to record two separate shows while watching a 3rd show over the antena or cable input.

You want to be able to pull in the local HD channels OTA that aren't offered by your cable company.

You want to make limited cable or OTA access available to company or children when you don't want them using or screwing with your DVR (hide it's remote) which still allows them to watch regular TV using the TV's remote.

You think that someday you might move the TV to another room or move to a new home where you'll need the tuner.

Makes it easier to sell later too.[/QUOTE]

In all due respect.... I really think each one of those discussion points is grasping. I could be wrong, but I will be nothing short of shocked if I ever use the tuner on my plasma. On the flip side, I do think its crazy that I need a cable box for every TV; however, I am not paying for anything but the DVR functionality. With two dual DVRs (soon to be three) I can record more TV than anyone should.

Kindest regards...

[Bud-man]

Well Gang lets get this thread back on track, just came back from my nearest Costco and there she was!!
Got another PM back on my PA25 so that makes it a total of $848 since last March.
The PM is pretty nice, striped down for sure, the PQ was alot brighter/crisper than the PA which looked softer even on it default torch mode.
I noticed how the PM's text was more jagged edged than my PA, the colors from 15+ft back were alot more colorful also.
I didnt see any remote around so i couldnt adjust or see what setting it was set at.
Heres a few pic's i took of the front and Jack Pack with my Razr phone.
Also the first pic shows the bezel being black, it's really a lighter grey.
Also it did have a mono type center only speaker sound, like somebody above said.
When i turned the whole plasma to its back in the store my wife walked away thinking i would get in trouble for sliding it around :eek:

[jspirate]

Thanks for the pics budman. Its not a bad looking TV. :)

[gand41f]

Saw one in my local Costco too -- indeed, not a bad looking panel. I think it looks better than the shiny silver bezel of 42PD50, which makes the black bars of 2.35:1 movies stand out too much.

gandalf

[plefkow]

Which Panny ED to get? So should I get the TH-42PD50U or TH42PM50U? What are the differences? I would be using this plasma to watch time warner dvr 98 % of the time and dvds 2%. What are the exact dimensions of TH42PM50U with and without stand? I live in Manhattan and there is a Cost Co near by, so would be easy to pick it up. Anyone know the dimensions of the box and if it would be fit in a bid size car with fold out seats? Are the TH-42PD50U mounting brackets compatable with TH42PM50U? Is there a link where I can read the manual for the TH42PM50U? I am looking to buy in the next two weeks. Can anyone explain Costco price matching, ie if the product has dropped in price and how that works? Thanks Phil

[Bud-man]

Well if you have a DVR and a dvd player you dont need a tuner, like the PD has, the box is like 4 feet x 5 feet in size, theres a smaller inner box say 3x4'.
Price matching is when as long as they sell a product and lower the price you MUST save the receipt with your LIFE and show the Customer Service desk the receipt and they will pay u or credit you back, however you paid.

[RandyWalters]

[QUOTE=plefkow]Which Panny ED to get? So should I get the TH-42PD50U or TH42PM50U? What are the differences? I would be using this plasma to watch time warner dvr 98 % of the time and dvds 2%. What are the exact dimensions of TH42PM50U with and without stand? I live in Manhattan and there is a Cost Co near by, so would be easy to pick it up. Anyone know the dimensions of the box and if it would be fit in a bid size car with fold out seats? Are the TH-42PD50U mounting brackets compatable with TH42PM50U? Is there a link where I can read the manual for the TH42PM50U? [/QUOTE]It appears the PM50U is just a 42PD50U with a dark colored bezel (making it look more like a 42PX50U) and it has no internal tuner whatsoever so it's just a monitor. Chances are it would use the same mounting brackets as a regular 42PD50/42PX50.

It is 40.2" wide x 30" high (on the table stand) and the stand is 12" deep, same as the 42PD50 and 42PX50. Without the stand it's 27.5" high (stand adds 2.5").

The box would be 50" long x 37" high x 21" wide. Not likely to fit in any car.

So far i haven't found a link to the manual for this 42PD50-Lite.

[Bud-man]

I found what i said in the first page of the official new panny thread....haha i was close in the price, at the time there was a japan PM50 model out there, but this now does confirm that new model, it sure does look like a 5000/1 contrast ratio, looked alot brighter and sharper than my PA.
I was close to the price!!



TH-42PM50 (New Model)
SRP $1,999.95
Available S-9
Standard Features Plus
• 42” 16:9 Diagonal Screen
• 852x480 Resolution
• Up to 5000:1 Contrast Ratio
• Aspect Ratio Control
• Optical Digital Audio Out
• Director Lighted Home Theater Remote
I'd be looking at a PM model for sure, i dont care about cable card slots or hd tuners.
Probably sell them at costco's for 1799 like the akai's

[BarnacleBill]

[QUOTE=Bud-man]TH-42PM50 (New Model)
SRP $1,999.95
Available S-9
Standard Features Plus
• 42” 16:9 Diagonal Screen
• 852x480 Resolution
• Up to 5000:1 Contrast Ratio
• Aspect Ratio Control
• Optical Digital Audio Out
• Director Lighted Home Theater Remote[/QUOTE]
Why would a monitor with no tuner have optical digital audio out? That does not make sense.

[aranganath]

[QUOTE=BarnacleBill]Why would a monitor with no tuner have optical digital audio out? That does not make sense.[/QUOTE]

To passthrough the audio portion of the HDMI signal.

[mkoesel]

[QUOTE=BarnacleBill]That does not make sense.[/QUOTE]

Actually, what does not make sense is that Panasonic has only included that feature on their very lowest end plasma on the market. Hopefully it is a sign of things to come for the entire line.

[rkundla]

[QUOTE=mkoesel]Actually, what does not make sense is that Panasonic has only included that feature on their very lowest end plasma on the market. Hopefully it is a sign of things to come for the entire line.[/QUOTE]

Some of the products that are for the Japanese market only have options and features that defy common sense, but people over there eat that stuff up!

[nohanno]

Anyone know where these are made? Japan? Date of manufacture? thanks

[BarnacleBill]

[QUOTE=mkoesel]Actually, what does not make sense is that Panasonic has only included that feature on their very lowest end plasma on the market. Hopefully it is a sign of things to come for the entire line.[/QUOTE]
That's why I question this. Are you sure it will pass through the HDMI audio signal to the optical digital out? It seems odd because it doesn't with it's other sets, as you say.

[Bud-man]

Look at my pic of the jack pack i didnt see any optical out!, just composite out.
I'm going back tonight to check it out better......without kids or wife to slow me down.
Plus wihout a tuner theres no need for optical out, the source of the hdmi would have it like DVR box, which is hooked into my Yammi receiver anyway.
What was posted by me above was taking from a CES show info back last March.
But then it does say audio out on the price list.

[RandyWalters]

[QUOTE=Bud-man]Look at my pic of the jack pack i didnt see any optical out!, just composite out.

I'm going back tonight to check it out better......without kids or wife to slow me down. Plus wihout a tuner theres no need for optical out, the source of the hdmi would have it like DVR box, which is hooked into my Yammi receiver anyway.
What was posted by me above was taking from a CES show info back last March.
But then it does say audio out on the price list.[/QUOTE]On my 42PX50 the optical audio output is located way off to the left of the rest of the inputs outside of your picture. It's hidden in the underside of that overhang, facing downward, so you have to look up at it from below. It's in the far left upper corner of the jack area, so i presume it will be in the same location on the Costco model. Aside from the absense of the RF input, that jackpack looks identical to mine.

I don't use my Optical Audio output because if i have my receiver in Digital mode it disables my monitor out which disables my Graphic Equalizer and the sound is kinda flat in comparison, but i do get 5.1 surround sound if the station is broadcasting it.

[rkundla]

[QUOTE=Bud-man]But then it does say audio out on the price list.[/QUOTE]

That is refering to the Program Out analog L/R RCA plugs on the right side of the jack pack. What use is it especially with the composite video output. Maybe a secondary monitor of crummy resolution?

[iBleedGarnet]

Item # 5820504652 on eBay has several pictures attached.

Notice the remote....why so few buttons?

Note: It says Assembled in Mexico.

[Bud-man]

I just came back from Costco's , it is made in mexico, no optical audio out on the bottom Randy, no big deal.
Being side by side with my PA25 it does have a more robust PQ, but text does look more jagged edged as others said in previous threads.
I talked to a few employee's and they said if your not happy with yours bring it back, dont even bother with the box, which i still have in the cellar, they also said a guy ran over a mp3 player brought it back in a plastic in pieces and still gave him a refund.....
I'd have to get a new DVR as mine is DVI matching my panny, which i need as SD channel's are horrid at times with the older phase 2 6412.
If i was to return and upgrade i would rather to a PX50.....

[RandyWalters]

[QUOTE=iBleedGarnet]Item # 5820504652 on eBay has several pictures attached. Notice the remote....why so few buttons?.[/QUOTE]Man that is a minimal amount of buttons! But when you consider that most of the buttons on the 42PD50U remote are for either operating the TV's tuner and selecting other devices and operating with controls for a VCR or DVD player etc then there's probably just enough buttons to do what's needed. I wonder if it has an Aspect button? Changing inputs will take more button pushes but that's not a big deal.

Since this model seems to be a Costco-only model, i wonder why someone dropped it off at "Auction Drop" to be sold on Ebay instead of just returning it to Costco for a full refund? Stolen perhaps?

http://images.andale.com/f2/111/129/10781498/1129899710775_99930A17_36FB_43D5_9F0F_C8C7A805BF10.jpg

[Bud-man]

On the front of the tv itself there are power/input/volume/sleep buttons....thats it
I asked for the remote and they said people would steal them if left out, there was noway you could access any picture settings from the front buttons, i'm sure it's running in torch mode.
Randy is your PX made in mexico?

[jspirate]

I find the made in Mexico thing very interesting. There has to be other panels coming out of Mexico. I was hoping there was some Panny directive/system that ended up in only the re-brands/Costco models coming out of Mexico. It appears the HP models are made in Japan, so I guess this will not be the case...

It will be interesting to see what model is next to come out of Mexico.

[Bud-man]

After reading thru many posts in the official new panny thread, i thought most were made there including the PD50!!
I briefly owned a Akai "made in mexico", i would think panasonic might possibly use or share the same factory.
All this and inspecting the new PM, i just might keep my trouble free PA, heck next yr it will be 9th generation and so forth.
I have no worries,i bought mine at COSTCO!!

[jrr17]

If I use the digital optical out from the tv and run it to the SS will I get true surround sound with everything that I attach to the tv. Also, will I be able to listen to the tv without surround if I want. Help I am a newbie (first large tv and surround sound)

[chanc]

[QUOTE=jrr17]If I use the digital optical out from the tv and run it to the SS will I get true surround sound with everything that I attach to the tv. Also, will I be able to listen to the tv without surround if I want. Help I am a newbie (first large tv and surround sound)[/QUOTE]

1. Depend on how your STB is connected to your display. With HDMI, sound is provided via HDMI. With Component cables sound can be input via optical or via RCA cables. Optical input will provide 5.1 sound if the program has it and if your display has it. You can also choose STEREO vs SS in your display.

2. If you have a 5.1 receiver and a 5.1 speaker system, then just connect your optical from the STB to the optical input of your receiver and you will have 5.1 SS even if your program only have stereo.

3. The optical ouput of the display SHOULD provide 5.1 to your receiver but it does not always work that way.

:)

[chanc]

[QUOTE=Bud-man]After reading thru many posts in the official new panny thread, i thought most were made there including the PD50!!
I briefly owned a Akai "made in mexico", i would think panasonic might possibly use or share the same factory.
All this and inspecting the new PM, i just might keep my trouble free PA, heck next yr it will be 9th generation and so forth.
I have no worries,i bought mine at COSTCO!![/QUOTE]

Bud-man,

Why? is the NEW TH-42PM50 not a good deal? I thought it has better picture quality?

:confused:

[Bud-man]

It does have a better PQ, well the PA next to it was made in august 2004, thats the same display unit ive been looking at since last winter, it runs in torch mode all day and who knows all night.
Being made in Mexico scares me as to problems that nobody here has experianced, due to no one has bought one....i might be the first here....who knows.
If i do purchase it i will keep my PA for a few weeks to make sure it really is a better set.

[chanc]

Made in China. Made in Mexico.

LOL :p

I don't know. My JVC HD-ILA was manufactured in Mexico ( I only found out after I got the set and looked at the back sticker) and except for a HDMI problem seems to work OK.

I called Costco Milford and they have a few TH-42PM50 in stock. What is giving me pause is the total lack of tuners.

;)

[Bud-man]

Chanc, Enfield store near me has 4, West Springfield had 0 as of a week ago., but they did have a 50px25......all dusty looking.
Would be nice to add a Costco somewere in Berlin or Manchester ct.

[crispytreat]

[QUOTE=Bud-man]I'd have to get a new DVR as mine is DVI matching my panny, which i need as SD channel's are horrid at times with the older phase 2 6412.
If i was to return and upgrade i would rather to a PX50.....[/QUOTE]

No need for a new DVR. Would a HDMI/DVI cable work?

[jrr17]

Since my satelite is connected via a cable cord from the wall, does it improve my picture at all to connect to tv using S-video cable?

[RandyWalters]

[QUOTE=Bud-man]On the front of the tv itself there are power/input/volume/sleep buttons....thats it. I asked for the remote and they said people would steal them if left out, there was noway you could access any picture settings from the front buttons, i'm sure it's running in torch mode.

Randy is your PX made in mexico?[/QUOTE]Maybe he could retrieve the remote and stand next to you while you adjust the settings?

My 42PX50 is made in Japan (March). I bought it in mid May. I've seen posts by people who's PX50's were made in Mexico and that they were trouble-free. At least theirs haven't been subjected to salty sea air on their trip to the USA :D

[dsmith901]

[QUOTE=Macfan424]The FCC banned sales of TV sets over 36" made after July 1 with only a NTSC tuner. They now must have an ATSC tuner or none at all (i.e. monitors).[/QUOTE]

Not quite true - as I recall the FCC mandated that 50% of TVs sold in the US larger than 25" by each manufacturer must have digital tuners as of July 1, 2005. Furthermore, ALL TVs sold in the US larger than 13" must have by digital tuners by 2007, though I think that date has actually been pushed up to July, 2006. It has been pointed out that most manufacturers are not in compliance so far. It can be argued, however, that by leaving out the tuner entirely and selling the display as a "monitor" it does not fit the definition of a TV and so does not have to comply.

[Bud-man]

Randy, i'm going to bring my remote, that should work, does the new series use commercial style settings like -30 to +30?

[RandyWalters]

[QUOTE=Bud-man]Randy, i'm going to bring my remote, that should work, does the new series use commercial style settings like -30 to +30?[/QUOTE]Yeah my 42PX50 settings do range from -30 to +30, with -0- being the middle setting.

[chanc]

Randy, bud-man,

Would the TH 42PM50 box fit into the back of a 2004 Toyota 4-Runner ? Or do I have to make some alternative arrangement ?

Thinking about picking one up. Really hate the no tuner stuff.

;)

[RandyWalters]

[QUOTE=chanc]Randy, bud-man,

Would the TH 42PM50 box fit into the back of a 2004 Toyota 4-Runner ? Or do I have to make some alternative arrangement? Thinking about picking one up.

Really hate the no tuner stuff.

;)[/QUOTE]The box for all 42" Panny Consumer models is 50" long x 37" high x 21" wide. You have to leave the box upright - can't lay it down as the TV would not be properly supported in it's foam packing inside the box.

I don't like the stupid either/or tuner on the Panny plasmas and since i use a few cable DVRs the tuner is basically a back-up in case the cable goes out (rare, but sometimes happens). Do you really need a built-in tuner, or would an external HD STB work better for you?

[plefkow]

I have decided to get the Costco Panny TH42PM50U. I wanted to get a static wall mount by Chief. I called Chief and gave the model number TH42PM50U, they asked if that display took the same bracket as TH-42PD50U. They did not have TH42PM50U listed. Does anyone know if the a bracket for the TH-42PD50U works on the Costco TH42PM50U? They suggested to get the Chief PSM-2053 ( http://www.chiefmfg.com/product_display.asp?id=5415 ). I understand that Chief brackets are excellent. Can anyone verify that these two displays take the same bracket? Can anyone verify that Chief makes good brackets? I needed static. Thanks Phil

[Bud-man]

Well i did last night boys!!!!
Looking at the PM50 right now in my living room, so it has a cheesy remote.......but it does it's purpose.
Why do i need 6 remotes all have settings like VCR, "whats that?" DTV,DBS?,RCVR??,etc....
I have it hooked thru component now as waiting for a HDMI cable from monoprice.
I exchanged my Moto 6412 for a phase 3 Hdmi model.......now SD looks great without me having a splitter for SD channels.
I have it set on standard mode for break-in,anyone know how to access the service menu?

plefkow, i'm 99% postive the bracket will work as the base is all the same on even older 25 series

I forgot to add the owner manual also list's a TH-50PM50U, High Def set........wonder how much that will go for?..$2499????

[Bud-man]

Got a E-mail from Panny about the PM50 and why it isnt on there site yet, here's there reply

"Thank you for your inquiry regarding the Panasonic TH42PM50U. We apologize
for the delay in providing you a reply to your inquiry and we hope that
this delay has not caused you any inconvenience. The has the same
electronic specifications as the Panasonic TH-42PD50 except it DOES NOT
have a TV tuner. You can view information on the TH42PD50 at the
following link:

http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/vModelDetail?displayTab=O&storeId=15001&catalogId=13401&itemId=89237&catGroupId=24973&modelNo=TH42PD50U&surfModel=TH42PD50U&cacheProgram=11002&cachePartner=700000000000
0005702

While playing around this morning before work i was watching some SD news programs and the dreaded Clayface issue came up...i have it set at standard with no adjustments
When looking at peoples faces there would be like fuzzy blotchy area's, this is NOT a issue with HD programming.
The PA is not going back.......yet.........

[jspirate]

[QUOTE=Bud-man]
TH-42PM50 (New Model)
SRP $1,999.95
Available S-9
Standard Features Plus
• 42” 16:9 Diagonal Screen
• 852x480 Resolution
• Up to 5000:1 Contrast Ratio
• Aspect Ratio Control
• Optical Digital Audio Out
• Director Lighted Home Theater Remote
I'd be looking at a PM model for sure, i dont care about cable card slots or hd tuners.
Probably sell them at costco's for 1799 like the akai's[/QUOTE]


[COLOR=DarkOrange]Up to 5000:1 Contrast Ratio?[/COLOR] Thats not the same wording used for the pd50u.

[Bud-man]

Yea, who knows until they officially have it on there webpage i dont believe it either, as with the optical out......none and the lighted home theater remote...haha what a joke
It's the smallest non feature remote you ever saw.....but it does what it's suspose with me!!

[chanc]

Bud-man,

Congratulations on your new Pana. The Clayfaced problem only occurs with analog SD and not with digital SD or HD. The cure for which is a little blurry for me as I am not looking fo find it. Although I cannot swear that I don't have it.

Please keep posting your experience and feedback.

Randy,

Thanks for the dimensions and the transportation tips. I have a Comcast Motorola 6420 DVR connected to my JVC DILA. I am thinking about a cablecard for the JVC and keep the DVR for the Pana. So I guess I am OK there.

What I don't like is the dependence on the STB for the life of the monitor. Although that might be just a psychological mental block since I am dependent on the cable or satellite feed anyway.

;)

[Bud-man]

But here we go again with this clayface issue, the first plasma i bought was a Akai 4296, which was a rebadged samsung 4231, it had serious clayface issues esp with DVI input, brought that back for the $800 more Panny Pa25 which is now sitting in my kitchen..lol
That set didnt have any clayface issue, looks pretty damn good, but it is now a older 6th generation model.
Only problem i have with the PA is when watching HD the reproduction of clouds in a sky background can have like halo effect to them, i guess this is were the 2,048 grades of gradiation comes in to help.
I will spend the next few days tweaking the settings and using AVIA and DVE to find it's sweet spot.

[Macfan424]

[QUOTE=dsmith901]Not quite true - as I recall the FCC mandated that 50% of TVs sold in the US larger than 25" by each manufacturer must have digital tuners as of July 1, 2005. Furthermore, ALL TVs sold in the US larger than 13" must have by digital tuners by 2007, though I think that date has actually been pushed up to July, 2006. It has been pointed out that most manufacturers are not in compliance so far. It can be argued, however, that by leaving out the tuner entirely and selling the display as a "monitor" it does not fit the definition of a TV and so does not have to comply.[/QUOTE]
Actually, we are both right. I just limited my reference to the portion that affects the 42" size under discussion. Here is a summary as posted on CNet.


FCC tuner mandate: You may have heard that all TVs will have to be HDTVs by 2006. That's not technically correct. The FCC has mandated that certain sizes of televisions on sale on certain dates have built-in ATSC tuners. Here's a look at the FCC's proposed rollout as it stands as of June 2005:

TV sizes that must include ATSC tuner*

March 1, 2005 All TVs 36 inches or larger; half of all TVs 25 inches or larger
March 1, 2006 All TVs 25 inches or larger
July 1, 2007 All TVs 13 inches or larger

*Note: Does not apply to monitors, such as many plasmas and front-projectors, that lack built-in standard (NTSC) tuners.

Note they state March 1 instead of July 1. I've read the latter date several times, but can't find a reference offhand.

[RandyWalters]

[QUOTE=Bud-man]I found what i said in the first page of the official new panny thread....haha i was close in the price, at the time there was a japan PM50 model out there, but this now does confirm that new model, it sure does look like a 5000/1 contrast ratio, looked alot brighter and sharper than my PA.
I was close to the price!!

TH-42PM50 (New Model)
SRP $1,999.95
Available S-9
Standard Features Plus
• 42” 16:9 Diagonal Screen
• 852x480 Resolution
• Up to 5000:1 Contrast Ratio
• Aspect Ratio Control
• Optical Digital Audio Out
• Director Lighted Home Theater Remote
[/QUOTE]These specifications were for the original TH-42PM50 from around 3 years ago that was a monitor only with an optional media center and a backlighted remote. It was floating around on a few websites for a few years after it was discontinued. I remember the discussion about it back then with the alleged 5000:1 contrast ratio and people wondering what S-9 means. It's been mentioned in several threads in the 3 years i've been reading AVS.

It's not the same as the current Costco model, although they resurrected the old model number from the old discontinued model.

http://prodb.matsushita.co.jp/product/info.do?pg=04&hb=TH-42PM50S

http://prodb.matsushita.co.jp/products/images/product/n/1/TH-42PM50S_1596_n.jpg

[Bud-man]

Randy ive seen that pic surfing the web last march when the new official 50u thread started, that is a older 3+ yr set but it doesnt pertain to what i pasted from the beggining of the new pd50u thread.
Some of the info is true, the S-9 probably meant Sept, month 9?
3 yrs ago we were lucky to see 1000:1 contrast!!!!

[spybug]

[QUOTE=chanc]Randy, bud-man,

Would the TH 42PM50 box fit into the back of a 2004 Toyota 4-Runner ? Or do I have to make some alternative arrangement ?

Thinking about picking one up. Really hate the no tuner stuff.

;)[/QUOTE]


We picked ours up last night, and (so far) we love it. We also use the DirecTV HDTivo, but we haven't tried HDMI yet, just component for hi-def tv, SD, and DVD via component (which looks great). Anyway, the point of this post is that we fit the thing (in its box) in the backseat of our cabrio with the top down. If we can do that, you can probably fit it in a 4Runner.

:)

[Bud-man]

spybug welcome to the forum, now thats makes it me and you with a PM!!!

[chanc]

spybug,

Congratulations on your new toy!!!

I have yet to see a plasma box in a cabrio :p

Frankly, the picture of the Panasonic TH-42PM50 is just great!!!

I measured my 4-Runner against the dimensions Randy provided 50"L X 37" H X 21" W.

My 4-Runner only has a 33" H clearance so I probably have to get a trailer since according to Randy, laying the box down is not an option,

[RandyWalters]

[QUOTE=chanc]I measured my 4-Runner against the dimensions Randy provided 50"L X 37" H X 21" W.

My 4-Runner only has a 33" H clearance so I probably have to get a trailer since according to Randy, laying the box down is not an option,[/QUOTE]When i was pulling out of CC's parking lot last weekend, i saw a small car pulling out of the BB lot across the street with a plasma box tied down to a roof rack ! Is that an option for you?

The lower half of the Panasonic box is like a big tray, and the outer box is like a big protective cover that slips down over the plasma to protect it. There is extra space above the top of the plasma but i don't know if there's 4 inches or not. If you remove this outer box you might be able to slide the lower "tray" into the back and still have clearance on top. Someone would have to measure how high the plasma sits in this lower tray for you, or maybe the guys at Costco would allow you to remove the upper box and take your own measurements.

[jrr17]

Can anyone tell me why my Panny PD50U looks better with a normal cable wire from my dish network receiver than with the S-video connection. I thought that S-video was a better connection.

[RandyWalters]

[QUOTE=jrr17]Can anyone tell me why my Panny PD50U looks better with a normal cable wire from my dish network receiver than with the S-video connection. I thought that S-video was a better connection.[/QUOTE]If by "normal cable wire" you mean the yellow composite video cable then that coincides with the many people with DirecTV report better PQ with Composite than S-Video. I had the same experience with my old Explorer 2000 cable box.

Or it could be that your S-Video cable is damaged or junky :)

[Discglfr]

My wife and I were a bit surprise how big this TV was after we got it home, but now it’s eye candy and a bit addictive. :) For us, this TV was an obvious choice as a good first entry into real home entertainment.

Now that I’ve had a 2 week crash course in current A/V technology (I just found out that EDTVs existed 3 weeks ago), I’m not entirely sure what to do with it. Actually, it seems there is plenty to do or rather adjust.

The picture looks good, but it seems there are so many setting options and it’s not so easy to figure out what looks best. Basically I’ve tinkered with the picture settings on the DVR and TV, but can’t really tell what will create the best PQ. There are so many options for having a good picture, right?

Currently we’re hooked up by HDMI, haven’t tried component yet. Is there any need to broadcast in anything besides 480p? 480p Wide or 480p Standard? When I use the HDMI picture format I think the HD material looks a little better, but the SD channels are not optimum...so I have it set on Fixed, 480p wide, normal. So basically any nonHD channel has the vertical bars. Is that how it will always be with SD, including movie channels?

Does anyone have a setting that they prefer OR is that too individual to compare with differing cable companies, etc?

And do I really need to stretch the image to fill the screen to prevent “burn in”? Hasn’t technology progressed past that?

I would appreciate any suggestions for a DVD player ($200-350) that’s a good match. I guess a progressive scan player would work good with the PM50.

I’m sure I could spend hours searching the many different threads that discuss these topics (which I already have), but maybe someone can address these items here.

[Discglfr]

In case someone is having trouble finding a good stand…the Ikea
Kaxas looks great. It fits well and looks great b/c of the gray, black, and metallic accents.

BTW, the PM50 fit into the back of my Subaru and we saw two other people buying it when we got ours (one old couple + another couple that had it laying flat in the back of a station wagon - don’t worry, it’s Costco).

[Bud-man]

Congrats on your new PM50, i bought mine wednesday and received a hdmi cable today, a lil sharper PQ over component.
Set your DVR to 1080i wide and preserve 480i picture, that way the sd channels look stretched and you can you the just mode.
I'm set on vivid and toned down the picture down to -25 and set color and tint to -5, i turned off mpeg nr and video nr to off in "other" adjust area.
What brand of DVR you using?

[Discglfr]

I have Cablevision and the box is the Scientific Atlantic - Explorer 8300HD.

My DVR can only be set to 1080i (not wide) and I'm not sure if I can set it to preserve 480i. How do you do that and also I don't see the just mode. I could "just" the screen with the TV remote before I got the HD box, but now that option doesn't exist (actually the Aspect button on the TV remote stopped working once we got the DVR).

When I adjust my picture to -25 it gets real dark. What do you do for sharpness?

So, if you do no stretching then only the HD broadcasts will fill the screen?
And why do some of the HD channels (700+ for me) appear to be SD?

[kingfrog]

I was at Costco today and that Panny looked better then the Maxent 42" HD next to it not only to me but to more then 5 other people I asked for opinion. (At 9 feet).

The Maxent looked every bit as good as the Pioneer 42" next to it. But the Panny has something "extra". A depth to the PQ. For $100 more one gets HD and an RGB port on the Maxent. Very tough call there. Never saw that little difference between ED and HD of the same size.

[Bud-man]

Discglfr, sorry i meant +25, i have a motorola dvr 6412, i dont know how your dvr settings work,once a signal is 480p or better "HD" i cannot adjust into just mode either, it's a 480i setting only.
You can find more info on that STB in the PVR forum.............

Digital PVR (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=100)

[RandyWalters]

[QUOTE=Discglfr]I have Cablevision and the box is the Scientific Atlantic - Explorer 8300HD.

My DVR can only be set to 1080i (not wide) and I'm not sure if I can set it to preserve 480i. How do you do that and also I don't see the just mode. I could "just" the screen with the TV remote before I got the HD box, but now that option doesn't exist (actually the Aspect button on the TV remote stopped working once we got the DVR).

So, if you do no stretching then only the HD broadcasts will fill the screen?
And why do some of the HD channels (700+ for me) appear to be SD?[/QUOTE]Is your 8300HD using Passport or SARA software? The easiest way to tell is if the Output Formats list 480i/480p/720p/1080i (Passport) or Upconvert 1/Upconvert 2 (SARA). If it's Passport, anytime you select 720p and/or 1080i in the Output Formats menu this automatically disables 480i even if you have it selected in the menu so the DVR will only output the HD resolution(s). The 480i setting is only there for when the DVR is used in SD mode on a regular non-HD TV. The only way for you to use JUST or ZOOM on the non-HD channels is to enable 480p in the menu. By using only 1080i and 480i you're effectively tricking the TV into FULL mode and Aspect Control is disabled. Enable 480p and you'll be able to stretch the non-HD channels.

The SARA software does things differently, but regardless the TV will not stretch or zoom anything on the "HD channels", not even the pillarboxed 4:3 non-HD shows (like daytime gameshows or local news etc). As long as the TV is getting a 720p or 1080i signal, regardless of if it's HD or not, you will not be able to use the TV's JUST or ZOOM modes. This is normal Panasonic operation.

Another problem with watching both the SD and HD channels through the same input is that SD and HD require drastically different picture settings, but by using the one input for both formats one of them will not be optimized because it has to share the settings used for the other format and it's usually the SD channels that suffer. What i do to maximize picture quality for both formates is i use a Component input for watching HD channels and dial in the picture settings to make it look best, then i use the S-Video input to watch regular non-HD channels and use considerably different picture settings to make SD look good. I use the Vivid mode for the HD/Component, and Standard for SD/S-Video. If i watch SD channels over Component the HD settings make it look like crap.

[Bud-man]

Randy, which mode do you prefer on you PX, 720p or 1080i?
With the PM i cant really tell much difference.
I got the phase 3 6412 box the same time as the PM, so i know with my old box 1080i produced alot brighter picture over 480p.
You would think 720p would be equal to 1440i?

[Discglfr]

Wow, how does a normal American family that can afford this technology know what to do with it? I get the feeling that most people get home, hook up their (standard) cable box, and just watch whatever feed is default.

Some good advise. I guess I'm more concerned with having the correct input/screen size/resolution for SD & HD, etc than I am with the picture colors, etc...for now.

Indeed there are yet again even more options. I never thought about having different inputs for SD and HD. I guess I could use the HDMI connection for HD and S-video (or even component HD) for SD channels. I suspect that S-video will look better for SD channels. I understand that SD vs HD channels require totally differrent setting. So, the idea is that you can just switch the input when watching SD vs HD instead of fumbling through the DVR/TV settings in order to optimize. Cool :rolleyes:

Randy, I don't necessarily have trouble stretching the screen with 480p wide, but now that I'm using HDMI as the only input, SD channels look really stretched when in that mode. Whereas before I got DVR, when I was using S-video, the "just" mode (controlled by the TV remote) filled the screen and didn't look so bad. I'm not really sure which software my DVR is using b/c I can switch between HDMI, fixed, or upconverting formats. When it's on upconvert I don't have any other options, but when I'm on fixed I can use 480i/480p/720p/1080i. I'm not sure this really matters.

What's the rationalle for using 480i? I guess nothing will really make the SD channels fill the screen in proportion. Bud-man, I'm not sure it's possible for me to set the DVR to 1080i wide and preserve 480i picture.

Also, I find it annoying that the HD channels aren't really HD except for the prime time shows: news, 8-10pm shows, athletic events? So really throughout the day my only true HD channel is INHD (unfortunately I don't even get INHD2).

[Bud-man]

INHD 1 and 2 kick butt, without them it wouldnt be worth to have HD, Ive had the same channel lineup for like 2 yrs here, CBS,NBC,PBS,FOX,ESPN, not 2,INHD 1 and 2, and for the pay channels HBO and ShowtimeHD....thats it
No mention about any new channels....ever!! thats COX for ya!!
Rhode island get's ABC but they dont have CBS...talk about pissed off superbowlers!!
They talk about like the year 2008 every channel will be HD, well that will never happen, possibly digital most likely, it wont be till 2015 till all HD is real force i'm sure.

[marchristensen]

Does the PM50U have the ability to connect to a computer?

[Bud-man]

No VGA inputs marchchristensen, it says in the manual not to hook up a pc to hdmi input, i have a vga to component cable, might play with it this weekend.
The PM50 at Costco's was dead!!!
Up for a week and wont power on!!!
Seems the power button in front is broken, don't hear any click when pressing it.
Who knows how many people been pressing it all week, but i hope this isnt aproblem, as i do use the front power button alot.

[marchristensen]

Any idea why Panny advises against connecting a PC via HDMI. I noticed that PC connection via HDMI was advised against in the PD50U on-line manual, and sI ent an e-mail to Pannasonic questioning this. Will report back to forum if/when they answer. I do have a digital connection to my computer. I wondered if anyone successfully connected a computer to the PD50U. This is a deal breaker for me.

[BruZZi]

[QUOTE=Bud-man]...3 yrs ago we were lucky to see 1000:1 contrast!!!![/QUOTE]

The 2001 Panasonic Commercial TH-42PWD4UY (http://www.pbase.com/chunkofunk/quick_tour_gallery) and Consumer TH-42PW4UZ [PT-42PD3-P] Models have 3000:1 CR.

:D :D :D



[size=1][color=#b9b9b9].[/color]
Check Out the all-new [color=#2063FF] BruZZi's Panasonic Plasma FAQ [/color] (http://www.glaucobruzzi.com/plasma-faq/index.php?)
The FAQ plus links to Plasma Stands, Wallmounts, Murals, Lifts, Speakers, Frames, Bezels & More.
Also links to Audio/Video Faqs, Comparisons, News, Reviews, Shootouts, Tutorials, Tweaks & Many More.[/size]

[miloauckerman]

I was going to start a new thread, but it might as well go here:

My parents asked me to help them buy a new TV to replace the 46" CRT-projection Philips they've had for four or five years. (nb: I know a little bit, but not much, most of my 'television' viewing is on my Apple display. They know close to nothing.) Went around to BB, CircuitCity, etc. with them, basically narrowed it down to the Panasonic HD at Best Buy). I wanted to show them an EDTV, but Best Buy and Circuit City were both sold out of the Panasonics.

Budget isn't a big problem, but I don't want them to overspend, and I'm thinking this EDTV might be a better idea (they're already Costco members).

They've got a DirecTV TiVO box, progressive-scan DVD player, currently an XBox and I think they ordered an XBox 360. I measured the distance to my father's usual chair and the couch, about a 6.5'-7' distance. Usual viewing is sports, network dramas, some HBO and some DVDs. I assume they'll buy an HD-DVD or Blu-Ray machine as soon as that settles down and prices are reasonable ($250 for a player?).

Now, the vibe I'm getting from my reading here is that if the screen-door effect isn't a big deal from their viewing distances, regular DVD content (and SDTV content) will look just as good or better on the EDTV set, right? If they're looking at upgrading again in four years, the EDTV should serve them well (and if nothing else they can return it to Costco at any time for the refund) in the meantime - and that extra $1000 could go to a TiVO HDTV box.

Just wondering if I'm off-target here.

Thanks,
MP

[RandyWalters]

[QUOTE=miloauckerman]My parents asked me to help them buy a new TV to replace the 46" CRT-projection Philips they've had for four or five years.

They've got a DirecTV TiVO box, progressive-scan DVD player, currently an XBox and I think they ordered an XBox 360. I measured the distance to my father's usual chair and the couch, about a 6.5'-7' distance. Usual viewing is sports, network dramas, some HBO and some DVDs.

Now, the vibe I'm getting from my reading here is that if the screen-door effect isn't a big deal from their viewing distances, regular DVD content (and SDTV content) will look just as good or better on the EDTV set, right?[/QUOTE]At that 7 foot viewing distance it's highly likely that he will see SDE on the ED set. I see it at 10 feet, other guys in the store with me could see it at 8 feet on the EDs. This may or may not bother your parents especially since they're used to an icky RPTV. SDE on the ED was a dealbreaker for me but your parents might not be so sensitive to it or even care. If you don't tell them about SDE they may not even notice, or if they do they might think it's normal and not worry about it.

Nonetheless, i think HD and SD will look better on an HD set at 7 feet, SDE or not.

[GetHealthHelp]

I really needed to find this forum yesterday. I bought the TH-42PM50OU yesterday at BJ's. We went to pick up the TH-42PD50U at Circuit City and decided to check out BJ's first for price.. We didn't realize the difference until I saw the writing on the box that said This unit requires a VDR or digital set top box. My husband said, don't worry, I know how to hook up to cable. Well, he was shocked when it didn't have the usual one wire attachment. I called cable and they said that I should just use my old TV since I must have bought a non-compatible unit. So, before killing ourselves for making a two thousand dollar mistake, we ran over to our local electronics store and the kid there explained how to hook up a DVR to the component connections and also sold us the correct color coded wires. At home my husband realized we really only needed the wires, because with them we could hook right into our cable box. I'm happy with the new Panasonic DVD player anyway and we still stayed under the price of the EDTV alone. Being that the movie channels are our only form of entertainment in the winters, we pay to have the cable boxes in all our rooms. The picture is great and the sound is wonderful. With all we saved, we will look for a sale for adding a home theater to it now. If you are thinking of using this for a bedroom, I think you will be very happy. We have a small apartment, so space was the main reason for us looking at Plasma. This monitor looks like a modern piece of furniture. We're thrilled.

Thank you all for your info and especially these great pictures. We feel confident that we made a good purchase.

[QUOTE=Bud-man]Well Gang lets get this thread back on track, just came back from my nearest Costco and there she was!!
Got another PM back on my PA25 so that makes it a total of $848 since last March.
The PM is pretty nice, striped down for sure, the PQ was alot brighter/crisper than the PA which looked softer even on it default torch mode.
I noticed how the PM's text was more jagged edged than my PA, the colors from 15+ft back were alot more colorful also.
I didnt see any remote around so i couldnt adjust or see what setting it was set at.
Heres a few pic's i took of the front and Jack Pack with my Razr phone.
Also the first pic shows the bezel being black, it's really a lighter grey.
Also it did have a mono type center only speaker sound, like somebody above said.
When i turned the whole plasma to its back in the store my wife walked away thinking i would get in trouble for sliding it around :eek:[/QUOTE]

[creepe]

I've been to 2 different Costco's now and both have the panasonic 42" ED setup. I don't have any problem with the PQ, however text on this screen is unacceptable in my eyes. Text is not sharp and that is one of the first things I look at when watching HD programming.

I am currently using an HD OTA tuner on a 36" 4:3 HD Tube TV and am looking for more screen size when watching 16:9.

Are my eyes just too well trained for an EDTV? Do I need to step up to HD Plasma? OR hopefully is the TV not correctly setup at costco? I've read that you can turn the sharpness down to 0 to reduce some of this. Are there any other tweaks that can be done?

I'm starting to believe that ED is not good for sports programming (where text is all over the screen) but maybe only good for SD or movies.

I thought I was set on an ED Panasonic, but now it seems like it needs to be either some HD plasma or maybe a competing technology like an LCD RP or probably nothing!?

Thanks for any feedback.


[QUOTE=Bud-man]I just came back from Costco's , it is made in mexico, no optical audio out on the bottom Randy, no big deal.
Being side by side with my PA25 it does have a more robust PQ, but text does look more jagged edged as others said in previous threads.
I talked to a few employee's and they said if your not happy with yours bring it back, dont even bother with the box, which i still have in the cellar, they also said a guy ran over a mp3 player brought it back in a plastic in pieces and still gave him a refund.....
I'd have to get a new DVR as mine is DVI matching my panny, which i need as SD channel's are horrid at times with the older phase 2 6412.
If i was to return and upgrade i would rather to a PX50.....[/QUOTE]

[mkoesel]

[QUOTE=marchristensen]Any idea why Panny advises against connecting a PC via HDMI. I noticed that PC connection via HDMI was advised against in the PD50U on-line manual, and sI ent an e-mail to Pannasonic questioning this. Will report back to forum if/when they answer. I do have a digital connection to my computer. I wondered if anyone successfully connected a computer to the PD50U. This is a deal breaker for me.[/QUOTE]

I can think of three reasons why they might advise this:

1) The HDMI circuitry in these Pansonic displays does not support computer signals (640x480, 800x600, etc.), and mutually, computers typically do not support consumer electronic signals (480p, 1080i, etc). Now, it should be possible, using a utility such as PowerStrip, to get your video card to output a signal that the TV will interpret as a consumer electronic signal. At this point your computer will be indistinguishable from a DVD player or STB. However, this is not something the ordinary consumer will know how to do, and so Panasonic simply advises against it so that they do not have lots of unhappy customers and not to mention a support nightmare.

2) The 500U consumer models still have PC connectivity, and this wish to get folks to upgrade to the higher end models in order to use the display as a computer monitor.

3) The content providers are successfully lobbying the consumer electronic manufacturers to send the message that computer + TV is not a "good thing". For the content providers the motivation is to keep their material safe. True, the higher end consumer models (and commercial models) still support PC connectivity as I said above, but by making this a high-end only option, they are sending the subtle message that PC connectivity is a "power user" type feature and mere mortals won't really need it.

[Macfan424]

[QUOTE=RandyWalters]At that 7 foot viewing distance it's highly likely that he will see SDE on the ED set. I see it at 10 feet, other guys in the store with me could see it at 8 feet on the EDs... but your parents might not be so sensitive to it or even care. If you don't tell them about SDE they may not even notice, or if they do they might think it's normal and not worry about it. [/QUOTE]
I think RandyWalters nailed it. You should have them look at the sets without trying to guide them too much. I normally watch an ED from 9 feet and can see SDE if I look for it, but it doesn't bother me at all. I move up to 6-7 feet occasionally and remain untroubled by it (but I can't be sure that would remain true if I watched from that distance all the time). People's tolerance varies, so there is no way to predict without actually looking at the sets.

As for which looks "better," again it's a matter of taste. At seven feet, HD sets look "smoother," but some people still prefer the overall "look" the ED sets get from their higher contrast ratio.

[kingfrog]

[QUOTE=creepe]I've been to 2 different Costco's now and both have the panasonic 42" ED setup. I don't have any problem with the PQ, however text on this screen is unacceptable in my eyes. Text is not sharp and that is one of the first things I look at when watching HD programming.

I am currently using an HD OTA tuner on a 36" 4:3 HD Tube TV and am looking for more screen size when watching 16:9.

Are my eyes just too well trained for an EDTV? Do I need to step up to HD Plasma? OR hopefully is the TV not correctly setup at costco? I've read that you can turn the sharpness down to 0 to reduce some of this. Are there any other tweaks that can be done?

I'm starting to believe that ED is not good for sports programming (where text is all over the screen) but maybe only good for SD or movies.

I thought I was set on an ED Panasonic, but now it seems like it needs to be either some HD plasma or maybe a competing technology like an LCD RP or probably nothing!?

Thanks for any feedback.[/QUOTE]

You will always find what you are looking for with "trained" eyes.. Most people just watch the content. People here tend to watch the display. That requires more time and money for satisfaction.

You may be to close and seeing the pixels which do "blur" the edges of the text. You may be better off with an HD. The Maxent is $100 more and is HD. But if you want a bigger size all you can get is HD for good reason.

[Motegi]

[QUOTE=Macfan424]I think RandyWalters nailed it. You should have them look at the sets without trying to guide them too much. I normally watch an ED from 9 feet and can see SDE if I look for it, but it doesn't bother me at all. I move up to 6-7 feet occasionally and remain untroubled by it (but I can't be sure that would remain true if I watched from that distance all the time). People's tolerance varies, so there is no way to predict without actually looking at the sets.

As for which looks "better," again it's a matter of taste. At seven feet, HD sets look "smoother," but some people still prefer the overall "look" the ED sets get from their higher contrast ratio.[/QUOTE]

Randy and MacFan424's comments are two of the best posts in this thread. I agree with both. I picked HD over ED.

[Macfan424]

[QUOTE=mkoesel]...The HDMI circuitry in these Pansonic displays does not support computer signals (640x480, 800x600, etc.), and mutually, computers typically do not support consumer electronic signals (480p, 1080i, etc). Now, it should be possible, using a utility such as PowerStrip, to get your video card to output a signal that the TV will interpret as a consumer electronic signal...[/QUOTE]
In addition to resolution, computer color space and sync signals are different than TVs' use. Some computer video boards can output a compatible signal, but most do not. (I've never used PowerStrip, so don't know if it can effect that change.) Also, some computer boards supply analog outputs, not digital as required by HDMI.

[Motegi]

[QUOTE=creepe]I've been to 2 different Costco's now and both have the panasonic 42" ED setup. I don't have any problem with the PQ, however text on this screen is unacceptable in my eyes. Text is not sharp and that is one of the first things I look at when watching HD programming.
[/QUOTE]

I have been to see this set repeatedly and have noticed this phenomenon right away as well at any reasonable distance when I look for it. I think it's perhaps an artificial edge enhancement secondary to an overly aggressive factory sharpness setting on this particular model just like you mentioned. However this edge enhancement is exactly what the majority of people find "catches their eyes" and actually prefer. If that's what they prefer that's the set they should buy!

Just for comparison here is a photo of standard definition analog cable text displayed on my HD 42" plasma:
http://24.96.59.129:8080/random/HomeTheater/SDvideo/images/DSCF0225.jpg
Someone please post a photo of SD or HD text on PM50U for comparison.

[Bud-man]

All this jagged edge is discussed in the official PD/PX50 thread
A Camera isnt a good judge to show the jagged edge content, unless you have a 7 megapixel camera.......
Adjusting your sharpness to 0 does help, also ive tried 480p/720p/1080i settings, being 1080i the worst, 720p the best......
After 10 ft the jagged edge becomes less noticable.
This is a problem of the 8th generation glass, my 6th gen PA was less noticable.
Panny tried to get the picture as clear as possible on a ED resolution.
This pic is with a 1.3 mp camera at 3 feet away from screen....SDE city!!!!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v406/Bud-man/DCP00861.jpg

[Motegi]

[QUOTE=Bud-man]All this jagged edge is discussed in the official PD/PX50 thread
A Camera isnt a good judge to show the jagged edge content, unless you have a 7 megapixel camera.......
Adjusting your sharpness to 0 does help, also ive tried 480p/720p/1080i settings, being 1080i the worst, 720p the best......
After 10 ft the jagged edge becomes less noticable.
This is a problem of the 8th generation glass, my 6th gen PA was less noticable.
Panny tried to get the picture as clear as possible on a ED resolution.
This pic is with a 1.3 mp camera at 3 feet away from screen....SDE city!!!!
[/QUOTE]

Budman,

Thanks for the pic. I agree that a camera is not the best way to show these issues (however I did use a Fuji S7000 6.3/12.3 MP camera).

Your plasma is the PM50 right? And is that an SD or HD signal on screen?

[Bud-man]

Yes it's a PM50, the pic is pretty poor on a 1999 kodak camera.
It was SD on Fox,Watching HD like HBO and INHD is really good with a HDMI cable.
I cant see anymore jagged edges from 6 ft and back, pic looks real nice, must be breaking in!!
Had my son playing xbox on it all afternoon Sat...talk about break it in the right way!!

[cleoreve]

Yes, it is the same as the PD50U with Gray around glass and no tuners. I had to break it down and take out of the box in the Costco parking lot to get into a Buick LeSabre four door full size vehicle. My wife kept telling me I should have brought the truck, but I got it in there. No way I was going to make two trips.

[hamy]

I have a few quick questions on this unit. I was so close to buying it this weekend but I'm concerned with the lack of optical audio out. Budman...how do you have your SS hooked up? I currently have my cable box connected via HDMI to my current TV. I then run an optical audio cable to my SS receiver. Thats the only option I see for the best quality sound. What am I missing??

On a side note this forum is priceless. This maybe my first post but i'm saved $1000s of dollars over the past few months with advice i've read here. Thanks you!!!!

[Motegi]

[QUOTE=hamy]how do you have your SS hooked up? I currently have my cable box connected via HDMI to my current TV. I then run an optical audio cable to my SS receiver. Thats the only option I see for the best quality sound. What am I missing??
[/QUOTE]

Does your cable box not have audio out (apart from HDMI)? Why not connect the audio directly to the receiver, bypassing the TV entirely?

[yobob]

[QUOTE=Bud-man]This pic is with a 1.3 mp camera at 3 feet away from screen....SDE city!!!![/QUOTE]
Hey, it doesn't look that bad. Oh, maybe I should put on my glasses. :o

Actually, it does look pretty good!

[hamy]

[QUOTE=Motegi]Does your cable box not have audio out (apart from HDMI)? Why not connect the audio directly to the receiver, bypassing the TV entirely?[/QUOTE]

Nope...it just has HDMI out. Maybe I should go this route though. It would make things easier to just get another cable box.

[Bud-man]

For normal viewing i use the HDMI for the sound out of the PM's speakers, but when i want to crank it up i have a optical out on my Moto 6412 to my Yammi receiver, as with the dvd player on DTS Dvd's

INHD had a Phish concert on all weekend and sunday morning i did "crank" her up!
Never saw or really listened to them before........kinda liked it.

Would of been nice to have optical out on this plasma, but maybe it's hidden under a cover like another plasma ive read about?
Theres a small cover with a screw, under it is a diagnostic connector were they must test and set it up on the assembly line.

Also another note............

When watching a HD channel and the screen goes SD like when watching nascar and it goes in car cam,i see white lines that are pulsing on the very top , also i noticed this set showed 1" on the top more screen than my PA, i had them hooked up side by side and could see people faces that were blocked out before, is it possibly a vertical adjustment too high?
I need to perform a calibration to see where the screen is.
I dont know if it's because of the HDMI or was it there when i used Component.

[Macfan424]

Without an internal tuner, an optical out wouldn't be of much value, as Panasonic doesn't seem to pass DD 5.1 signals through HDMI. I don't know if any sets do. I'm not sure if the HDMI standard even provides for digital signals.

[cleoreve]

:( I really confused. I bought the PM50U and really like it. I do not have HD capability through DirecTV yet and I'm too far in the country to get HD OTA. I just have a DirecTV DVR with Tivo. I have watched SD programs and DVDs and have been able to adjust with Zoom, Full and Just to stretch 4:3 out to the top and bottom. Are you saying that with some or all HD programs over DirecTV HD. that they will be in 4:3 and I won't be able to adjust using the Zoom, Full and Just buttons? Please explain, I very confused.

[Macfan424]

[QUOTE=cleoreve]:( I really confused. I bought the PM50U and really like it. I do not have HD capability through DirecTV yet and I'm too far in the country to get HD OTA. I just have a DirecTV DVR with Tivo. I have watched SD programs and DVDs and have been able to adjust with Zoom, Full and Just to stretch 4:3 out to the top and bottom. Are you saying that with some or all HD programs over DirecTV HD. that they will be in 4:3 and I won't be able to adjust using the Zoom, Full and Just buttons? Please explain, I very confused.[/QUOTE]
If you upgrade to a D* HD TiVo (HR10-250), and subscribe to their HD package, you'll discover you have two options.

Normally you would use the HR10-250's 1080i or 720p output, causing the Panasonic to recognize everything as an HD signal, disabling it's aspect control. However, you can set the HR10-250 to show SD programs in either a "full" mode (SD 4:3 material stretched to 16:9) or "panel" mode (SD 4:3 material at 4:3, with black panels filling the rest of the screen.) HD always stays 16:9 in either mode. The black bars to the right and left of 4:3 HD pictures are part of the signal. You cannot remove them. (4:3 pictures are not actually HD, but upconverted SD transmitted as HD, which is always 16:9, so the broadcaster inserts the bars to fill the space.)

Alternatively, if you want to use "Zoom" or "Just" on the Panasonic, you can set the HR10-250 to output 420 (i or p). Unfortunately, this only works for SD programing; it still doesn't let you get rid of the bars on HD upconversions. At least I haven't figured out how, but I'm not very motivated as I prefer to watch everything in it original aspect ratio, including 4:3 programming.

[cleoreve]

Thanks MacFan.

[nrdempress]

Like many people on this forum, I'm deciding between this TV and the Maxent 42" plasma. I went to Costco this weekend to compare the two TVs, and it did look like the Panny had superior PQ. However, whenever there was text on the screen, the text was squiggly... It's not that it was fuzzy or unclear, but the text did not have straight vertical lines, even though the other monitors showed that it was supposed to. This was at a distance of about 12 feet, so it wasn't because I was too close to the set or anything. I can only assume that this is not normal of the set? Has anyone else experienced this on their Panny? None of the other TVs at Costco displayed the text as squiggly.

[cleoreve]

Haven't noticed this at all. As a matter of fact, my wife and I both commented on how good the text looks especially on the Tivo guide. It seems very clear to us.

[cleoreve]

I could be because the screen was so much bigger that it looked better, but we didn't notice any problem with the text.

[Motegi]

[QUOTE=nrdempress]Like many people on this forum, I'm deciding between this TV and the Maxent 42" plasma. I went to Costco this weekend to compare the two TVs, and it did look like the Panny had superior PQ. However, whenever there was text on the screen, the text was squiggly... It's not that it was fuzzy or unclear, but the text did not have straight vertical lines, even though the other monitors showed that it was supposed to. This was at a distance of about 12 feet, so it wasn't because I was too close to the set or anything. I can only assume that this is not normal of the set? Has anyone else experienced this on their Panny? None of the other TVs at Costco displayed the text as squiggly.[/QUOTE]

I noticed this text issue on two separate Panny ED displays at Costco. This issue has also been brought up in the "official" Panny thread. Look at that thread for more info.

Also look at posts #124, 128, and 130 on this page about this issue. Others have noticed it too! You are not alone.

[mkoesel]

[QUOTE=Macfan424]Without an internal tuner, an optical out wouldn't be of much value, as Panasonic doesn't seem to pass DD 5.1 signals through HDMI. I don't know if any sets do. I'm not sure if the HDMI standard even provides for digital signals.[/QUOTE]

It may be that passing the audio from an HDMI signal out through a digital output is not permitted by the HDCP DRM scheme. After all, with HDMI, both the audio and video would be protected by HDCP. So passing the digital audio stream along unencrypted would be a no-no.

[busdepot]

I purchased this unit and have a "newbie" question regarding expected picture quality. I must admit that my initial reaction to this set is somewhat negative, but I wonder if my expectations were too high.

Some background: The source is a Comcast/Motorola HDTV DVR, going through a Kenwood Sovereign A/V receiver (their best, about $2500, and HDTV compatible) and then into the TV, all via component video cables (rather long- 30 feet from receiver to TV). I am viewing from a distance of about 8 feet (small room). I have tried various output settings (i.e. the Motorola box allows the option of outputting non-HD video at 720I or 720P, or at 1080 and letting the TV downconvert.), and have played with the Panny's pic settings.

I am surprised to find myself extremely disappointed in the picture detail on SD (standard definition) broadcasts. This is most noticable on fairly close-up shots of faces; you don't see much detail such as wrinkles, etc. It has what I find to be an extremely soft picture, even with sharpness maxed out.

To be fair, I'm replacing a top-of-the-line 27" Sony direct-view TV, so I would have expected some loss of clarity going to such a larger screen on non-HD programming. But I was not expecting this huge a difference; it's day and night compared to my 27" set. HDTV programming looks good (even sitcoms on NBC-HD) but the SD picture is so bad that I miss my 27" Sony XBR (which, incidentally, was fed by the same Motorola/Kenwood combination).

This leaves me with several questions...

1) Does this sound typical of what a Panasonic EDTV Plasma should look like on SD video? Are my expectations for picture quality simply too high?

2) Is this the "screen door effect?" (It doesn't look like a screen door to me, more like lack of detail.) If so, would it follow that it is mainly noticable on SD video?

3) I can go back to Costco and swap for an HDTV plasma. (Their Maxent seems well liked here, and is about the same price.) But since even the EDTV has superior resolution than is broadcast in SD, would upgrading the resolution to an HDTV plasma make any difference on those channels? (In fact, since it would have to downconvert, I'd think it could be worse, no?)

4) Or should I just give up and go back to my 27" Sony until most programming is in HD?

[Motegi]

[QUOTE=busdepot]Does this sound atypical of what a Panasonic EDTV Plasma should look like on SD video? Or are my expectations simply too high? Am I right in assuming that an HDTV set (like the Maxent or Pioneer at Costco) would not be any better on SD, since it would simply be downconverting those signals anyway? Should I just give up and go back to my 27" Sony until most programming is in HD?[/QUOTE]

Did you try connecting your cable box with s-video for the SD signals? If you can see by the photos I posted earlier in this thread I've had great success with SD over S-video on my HD plasma. For some reason the S-video provides a better SD picture than watching it over component in my experience. I figure it wouldn't hurt to give it a shot.

[Knievel]

Yes SD usually looks better through S-video than component.

[Bud-man]

[QUOTE=busdepot]
I am surprised to find myself extremely disappointed in the picture detail on SD (standard definition) broadcasts. This is most noticable on fairly close-up shots of faces; you don't see much detail such as wrinkles, etc. It has what I find to be an extremely soft picture, even with sharpness maxed out.
[/QUOTE]

The clarity on SD of faces is pretty bad on this set, there are blotches of there face that are fake looking with no wrinkles, my PA 25 i replaced did not have this problem!!
HD connection does not suffer this fate, i have all noise reductions set to off in the picture menu, with color and tint set at -5
Also i have a moto 6412 dvr and got it the same day as my PM, i'm hooked up now thru HDMI and it does seem alot better.
It's possible either to try a s-vid or composite connection to see what happens as the dvr might be trying to over correct the detail along with panny's electronic's.

[RandyWalters]

[QUOTE=Bud-man]The clarity on SD of faces is pretty bad on this set, there are blotches of there face that are fake looking with no wrinkles, my PA 25 i replaced did not have this problem!!
HD connection does not suffer this fate, i have all noise reductions set to off in the picture menu, with color and tint set at -5
Also i have a moto 6412 dvr and got it the same day as my PM, i'm hooked up now thru HDMI and it does seem alot better.
It's possible either to try a s-vid or composite connection to see what happens as the dvr might be trying to over correct the detail along with panny's electronic's.[/QUOTE]Many many people complain of poor SD quality from the 6412 DVR, especially when you watch SD through the HD connections. And by using the HD connections you're having to also use the HD menu settings which don't work well with the much different SD broadcasts. My HD settings are drastically different than the ones i use for my SD input so i imagine the same thing would be required for an ED set.

The PM50 should have better SD quality than the PA25 as long as both use the same source as a reference point. Do you still have the old cable box that you were using with your PA25 that you can try on the PM50?

Definitely try the S-Video or Composite connection and set up more SD-friendly settings for that input.

Here are my PX50 settings for my S-Video input:

Pic Mode: Standard
Picture +25
Brightness -6
Color -6
Tint +3
Sharp +10
Color Temp: Normal
Color Mng: Off

[Bud-man]

With my old PA i had a splitter for SD because it had a NTSC tuner to compare too, SD doesnt look bad now ive adjusted the PM and added a HDMI cable from the phase 3 6412.
Theres a issue were 5:1 audio will not play with the HDMI connection used, i'll leave that problem with the PVR forum.....
SD has improved over the phase 2 6412.
I tried Composite/S-Video this morning, still like HDMI the best!
Last week is when i was complaining about SD clayface, now thats not as a issue,maybe the set has " broken in" some and improving PQ.

[jspirate]

[QUOTE=Bud-man]With my old PA i had a splitter for SD because it had a NTSC tuner to compare too, SD doesnt look bad now ive adjusted the PM and added a HDMI cable from the phase 3 6412.
Theres a issue were 5:1 audio will not play with the HDMI connection used, i'll leave that problem with the PVR forum.....
SD has improved over the phase 2 6412.
I tried Composite/S-Video this morning, still like HDMI the best!
Last week is when i was complaining about SD clayface, now thats not as a issue,maybe the set has " broken in" some and improving PQ.[/QUOTE]

Errrrr, the 6412 is the dual dvr motorolla right??? My current DVR does nto have HDMI. Are you getting your cable box from Comcast? I want HDMI!

[busdepot]

I tried the s-video input this morning but still found the picture on SD broadcasts to be unacceptable. In fact I actually think I prefer the SD picture using the component input, although the difference is small. The same Motorola 6412 has a much sharper picture on my 27" Sony XBR, so I can't blame the cable box. I'm leaning toward taking advantage of Costco's return policy and bringing home the Maxent HDTV plasma to see if it looks any better under identical conditions.

[Bud-man]

Jspirate go trade up to a phase 3 box with HDMI, biggest inprovement is SD Analog, busdepot, you have the older 6412 with DVI out?
Both you guys upgrade!!
I have Cox.

[jspirate]

[QUOTE=Bud-man]Jspirate go trade up to a phase 3 box with HDMI, biggest inprovement is SD Analog, busdepot, you have the older 6412 with DVI out?
Both you guys upgrade!!
I have Cox.[/QUOTE]


Well, I called Comcast and they are not supporting (or offering) the phase 3 in my area. Not yet anyway :mad:

[Bud-man]

Your not missing much as the phase 3 has HDMI DD sound problems, the SD is 100% better thou......
I hooked up my HTPC with a DVI to HDMI adapter , now that i'm not using the HDMI of the DVR, i tried to use a VGA to Component cable i had, no picture at all.
Only problem with HTPC is the screen is a lil too wide, it covers part of WinXp's Taskbar, attempt's to change resolution smaller yeilds same results.
Looks best with a 720x480 display.
The PM's Screen is very overscaned compared to my PA, i will use Avia tonight to see how much overscan is involved.
Also if you are using a phase 2 dvr, if you have a tuner use a splitter for SD channels.

[Discglfr]

[QUOTE=RandyWalters]
Here are my PX50 settings for my S-Video input:

Pic Mode: Standard
Picture +25
Brightness -6
Color -6
Tint +3
Sharp +10
Color Temp: Normal
Color Mng: Off[/QUOTE]

Randy, what are your settings for HD programming?
And also, what is your black level settings?

Do you JUST your SD programming?

[tucsonbob]

Sometime ago I was comparing a number of plasma and DLP sets. I like the Panasonic EDTV as a good value. I also like the Samsung DLPs.

My concern is I have read that the lamp life on the DLPs is about 2-3000 hours. I understand it is in the $200 range to replace the lamp, but with our TV viewing I will need to replace the lamp every 1 1/2 years. That assumes nothing else goes wrong with the light wheel, mirrors, etc.

A while ago I read in this forum that the Panasonic EDTV had quite a long "half life" or usable life. Does anyone recall what the expected life of the Panasonic newer model might be? An estimate will work. Thanks

[Macfan424]

[QUOTE=tucsonbob]...A while ago I read in this forum that the Panasonic EDTV had quite a long "half life" or usable life. Does anyone recall what the expected life of the Panasonic newer model might be? An estimate will work. Thanks[/QUOTE]
The rated half life of Panasonic plasmas (and most current major brands) is 60,000 hours... about 20-25 years of 6-8 hour daily viewing.

[tucsonbob]

Thanks VERY much. I knew it was a lot longer life than the DLP lamps--but never realized it was 60,000 hours!!! Thanks so much for the feedback.

[RandyWalters]

[QUOTE=Discglfr]Originally Posted by RandyWalters
Here are my PX50 settings for SD on my S-Video input:

Pic Mode: Standard
Picture +25
Brightness -6
Color -6
Tint +3
Sharp +10
Color Temp: Normal
Color Mng: Off

Black Level: Dark

Randy, what are your settings for HD programming?
And also, what is your black level settings?

Do you JUST your SD programming?[/QUOTE]

Remember this is for the HD model, but i imagine i'd have different settings if it were an ED set.......

My HD settings on the Component Input:

Pic Mode: Vivid

Picture: +25
Bright: +6
Color: -11
Tint: -2
Sharp: +12

Color Temp: Normal
Color Manage: Off

Video NR: On
Color Matrix: HD (locked)
MPEG NR: Off
Black Level: Light

------------

And yes i typically use Just mode for SD about half the time on stuff i don't care so much about, but the other half of the time i watch SD in 4:3 mode (especially if it involves beautiful women or sports car racing which i prefer to see OAR and with better picture quality :-)

[Bud-man]

Here's my settings using HDMI/Component for HD viewing.
Mode Vivid
Picture +25
Bright 0
Color -5
Tint -5
Temp Cool
Color mgn on
Video NR off
Mpeg NR off
Black level light.

[busdepot]

Following up regarding my prior comments expressing disappointment with the Panasonic's SD pic quality...

I went to Costco and picked up the Maxent (which actually uses a Panasonic plasma screen and main circuit boards, but is HD). No question in my mind that its SD picture is superior to the Panasonic's at a distance of 8 feet (the limits of my room layout). The Maxent was slightly superior to the Panasonic on SD using the component inputs, and significantly better via the S-video input. It is still disappointing compared to my direct view non-HD Sony XBR, but at least less disappointing than the Panasonic was on SD broadcasts.

On HD, the Panny held its own against the Maxent and even maybe had a little better color accuracy. Even though it is EDTV and the Maxent is HDTV.

Still, overall I found that I preferred the Maxent. I boxed up the Panny this evening and will be returning it tomorrow. I am shocked to be saying this, given Panasonic's excellent reputation. Perhaps if I'd have compared the Panasonic HD I'd have liked it more. But the Panasonic ED and the Maxent HD are about the same price so that is a more fair comparison.

[Motegi]

[QUOTE=busdepot]I went to Costco and picked up the Maxent (which actually uses a Panasonic plasma screen and main circuit boards, but is HD). No question in my mind that its SD picture is superior to the Panasonic's at a distance of 8 feet (the limits of my room layout). The Maxent was slightly superior to the Panasonic on SD using the component inputs, and significantly better via the S-video input. It is still disappointing compared to my direct view non-HD Sony XBR, but at least less disappointing than the Panasonic was on SD broadcasts.[/QUOTE]

You were lucky to be able to do a true head to head comparison in your own home with your own video components.

Honestly I dont think that even most direct view sets display SD as good as a direct view Sony XBR, its a tough standard to meet for SD.

[pstrisik]

[QUOTE=busdepot]Following up regarding my prior comments expressing disappointment with the Panasonic's SD pic quality...

I went to Costco and picked up the Maxent (which actually uses a Panasonic plasma screen and main circuit boards, but is HD). No question in my mind that its SD picture is superior to the Panasonic's at a distance of 8 feet (the limits of my room layout). The Maxent was slightly superior to the Panasonic on SD using the component inputs, and significantly better via the S-video input. It is still disappointing compared to my direct view non-HD Sony XBR, but at least less disappointing than the Panasonic was on SD broadcasts.

On HD, the Panny held its own against the Maxent and even maybe had a little better color accuracy. Even though it is EDTV and the Maxent is HDTV.

Still, overall I found that I preferred the Maxent. I boxed up the Panny this evening and will be returning it tomorrow. I am shocked to be saying this, given Panasonic's excellent reputation. Perhaps if I'd have compared the Panasonic HD I'd have liked it more. But the Panasonic ED and the Maxent HD are about the same price so that is a more fair comparison.[/QUOTE]
The Maxent is an interesting option. I'm curious about the typical things... is the Maxent stretch mode, I think it's called "panorama", the same as the panny "just" mode, or would you describe it as different? Also, does the Maxent remember settings for each input or is it like the Panny with only one setting memory per video mode?

[Sparco]

I went to Costco and picked up the Maxent (which actually uses a Panasonic plasma screen and main circuit boards, but is HD).

What model number is the Maxent?

[Spur]

Saw this same model today at my local BJ's and it looked terrible. Was showing a video of the great "Dora the Explorer" that looked like I was watching through about 5 screen doors. Was so bad I looked in back to see it was hooked up to componet but could not see where it led to. The interesting thing was all the other plasma & LCD's were showing a HD loop.

I will be going by the local Costco to check it out there. I am really finding it hard to make up my mind on the 42 ed panny ( would have to be the pm50u or PWD8UK as I can not stand the all silver consumer) vs the 50 inch 8uk. Now with the news that Costco is carrying the TH-50PM50U , I think my head will explode :D

[Motegi]

[QUOTE=pstrisik]The Maxent is an interesting option. I'm curious about the typical things... is the Maxent stretch mode, I think it's called "panorama", the same as the panny "just" mode, or would you describe it as different? Also, does the Maxent remember settings for each input or is it like the Panny with only one setting memory per video mode?[/QUOTE]

The Maxent panoramic mode stretches the sides of the frame out but keeps the center "normal" like Panasonics Zoom mode. The Maxent zoom 1 and 2 cut off the top and bottoms of a 4:3 picture and zooms it to fit a 16:9 ratio but preserves picture geometry. 16:9 mode stretches the entire 4:3 frame equally horizontally so everyone looks "wide".

The Maxent does not remember the aspect ratio settings with each input and defaults automatically to 16:9. However it does remember 4 different video settings called vivid, standard, movie, and user (each includes adjustable brightness, contrast, sharpness, color, tint, etc) for each input. Yes 4 unique settings for EACH input.

[Motegi]

[QUOTE=Sparco]What model number is the Maxent?[/QUOTE]

MX-42X3 not to be confused with the older not-so-good MX-42XM11

[busdepot]

There is a 30-page or so thread on the Maxent elsewhere on this board. It's called " Maxent 42" HDTV MX-42X3 - Lets Talk!" but the board mods won't let me post a URL until I post five other times so I can't link it for you. :-(

It turns out that 2 of the main circuit boards plus the Plasma screen inside this unit are Panasonic. This model - MX42X3 is unique to Costco; the one at Best Buy etc. apparantly does not have the Panasonic innards and has not received good reviews.

Panorama is similar to the Panasonic's stretch mode, although I find it a bit more irritating; I think maybe it stretches a larger percentage of the screen than the Panasonic does. Yes there are different settings for each input, but one flaw is that it doesn't retain its aspect ratio settings when you switch inputs. (However some cable boxes, etc. apparantly can override this by using their settings.)

As for pic quality, my comparison was in-home after tweaking both units, using the same input. The "out of the box" settings (which may be what Costco is using) were superior on the Panasonic.

Check out the thread mentioned above and you will have more info than you know what to do with. :-)

[snowjay]

[QUOTE=chanc]Randy, bud-man,

Would the TH 42PM50 box fit into the back of a 2004 Toyota 4-Runner ? Or do I have to make some alternative arrangement ?

Thinking about picking one up. Really hate the no tuner stuff.

;)[/QUOTE]


Nope! My PD50 wouldn't fit, but the CC guys tok it outta the box, placed it on my back seat and strapped it in for me.

Also I think it would slide in the back with the seats down if you just took the top of the box off and left the plasma sitting in the bottom tray.

[chanc]

[QUOTE=snowjay]Nope! My PD50 wouldn't fit, but the CC guys tok it outta the box, placed it on my back seat and strapped it in for me.

Also I think it would slide in the back with the seats down if you just took the top of the box off and left the plasma sitting in the bottom tray.[/QUOTE]

Thank you , snowjay for the info. I have to admit that I had defected and I did not go with the Panasonic TH-42PM50 after all.

I knew that the Pana box would not fit in my Toyota thanks to the dimensions given in this forum. But that was not the reason I did not go with the Panasonic.

I went with the Maxent 42X3 because I wanted a HD set and not a ED set. I spent a fair amount of time debating the pro and con of HD vs ED and looked at the Panasonic, for like an inordinate amount of time. But in the end I went with the Maxent. If I just want DVD and SD watching I probably would go with the ED Pana. But I want to watch HD and did not want SDE so my choice is clear.

The Maxent box is smaller than the Pana and it still would not fit in my Toyota in the upright position either. I finally just laid it gently down and drove slowly home.

I just picked up the Maxent yesterday so I really have not had any strong feeling about it yet. Comcast will be delivering an HD box and then I can have a better idea of what the set performance is at home.

:p

[Bud-man]

chanc you TRADER, go hang out in the Maxent 42x3 forum and be gone with you!! :)
Do you realize there's like 10-15 HD channels and there isnt really anymore new ones coming out soon? you know how much it costs and work involved to convert a movie into HD?
I talked to my provider COX and there's no hurry to update anymore, possibly ABC, no TNT HD either, they said it will be YEAR's if not DECADES before all channels are HD, it will be my kids generation that will see that happen, the new mandate on all digital has now been bumped back from 2006 to 2009!!
And the only way it will be ALL HD is when everyone owns a HD set which will be when pigs fly!!
People will watch CRT's for many many years to come with there free OTA broadcasts, it will against the law to make everyone have to watch HD.

[chanc]

LOL :p

bud-man, I had a very large VHS tape library and never thought that one day I would not touch them. I finally completed my move to DVD and guess what, here come Blue-Ray and HD-DVD.

The path is clear. Although Panasonic has the best selling and arguably the best ED set, most manufacturers are moving their production to HD. This is reported in all the trade journals. The projection is that ED is decreasing in volume shipment and will soon go the way of the CRT and RPCRT.

I do think that your are right about broadcasters being slow to make the move to HD. But there are other considerations involved here, i.e. Xbox360 and Playstation 3 in addition to the Blue-Ray and HD-DVD..

There are reports that the Panasonic ED has artificially enhanced outlines and gives a superficially pop to the picture.

Anyway, the Maxent 42X3 has some Panasonic components.

It's not too late for YOU to take advantage of Costco exxchange and return program.


;)

[snowjay]

Ahh well, I was a day too late.

For me the ED was a no brainer... at the time it was almost $1k less than its HD counter part and at the 15' I'm sitting from the set HD content still looks phenominal and I don't have to worry about SDE.

Good luck with your set! I considered the Maxtent before I bought the Panny.

[Bud-man]

Yea chanc i have a new panny, a new reciept and a new return policy!!, we'll see as the next 6-12 months progress.
I sit 14' back in my chair which i didnt believe till i took out the tape measure, and HD does look awesome!!
No more false conturing esp on underwater/ cloud scenes!!, that was my only complaint with the PA25.
Buy what you guys think is best for YOU!!

[busdepot]

If I just want DVD and SD watching I probably would go with the ED Pana. But I want to watch HD and did not want SDE so my choice is clear.
As I said, I bought the Panasonic because I did expect to be watching mostly SD for a while, and expected the ED Panny to be better than the HD Maxent for that. To my complete surprise, after trying both in my living room under identical conditions, the Maxent provided a visibly superior SD picture. To the Panny's credit, the HD picture quality on the two sets was very close. This is, of course, completely the opposite of what I expected to find.

[tucsonbob]

Comcast in Tucson just told me that they NOW have a new HD STB with HDMI. It is apparently a recent new offering. Check with your local Comcast-hope you get good news.

[chanc]

bud-man,

Please tell me with a cable stb ( you have cablevision I believe) does the Panasonic have ANY stretch mode like just zoom etc...?

I think I might have run into a REAL problem with the Maxent 42X3 with the stretch mode.

Thanks,

:mad:

[BruZZi]

TH-42PM50U and TH-50PM50U Manuals are now at Panasonic's website:

http://service.us.panasonic.com/OPERMANPDF/TH42PM50U.PDF




[size=1][color=#b9b9b9].[/color]
Check Out the all-new [color=#2063FF] BruZZi's Panasonic Plasma FAQ [/color] (http://www.glaucobruzzi.com/plasma-faq/index.php?)
The FAQ plus links to Plasma Stands, Wallmounts, Murals, Lifts, Speakers, Frames, Bezels & More.
Also links to Audio/Video Faqs, Comparisons, News, Reviews, Shootouts, Tutorials, Tweaks & Many More.[/size]

[Bud-man]

Chanc i have COX, using a moto 6412 DVR phase 3 model, watching any SD channel 480i or 480p i have 4 screen modes.
Zoom
Full
Just
4:3
I use Just mode 99% of the time.
Of course HD channels are none adjustable which fill the screen perfectly.

[chanc]

[QUOTE=Bud-man]Chanc i have COX, using a moto 6412 DVR phase 3 model, watching any SD channel 480i or 480p i have 4 screen modes.
Zoom
Full
Just
4:3
I use Just mode 99% of the time.
Of course HD channels are none adjustable which fill the screen perfectly.[/QUOTE]

Thanks Bud-man. The MaXENT with component or hdmi inputs does not have ANY stretch modes only 16X9 or 4X3. I am talking digital and analog channels not HD.

I can use the stretch from the Moto box but it's really not watchable.

:mad:

[Bud-man]

chanc, what model cable box you have?, can you go in the settings and set it to 480?, then that will allow you to adjust your aspect ratio.
Motorola has settings like 1080i wide ,preserve 480i picture, thats were mines set at ,so all digital and analog channels can be stretched.
Preserve 480p only gives me full, zoom, and 4:3 mode, no just mode.

[mkoesel]

[QUOTE=BruZZi]TH-42PM50U and TH-50PM50U Manuals are now at Panasonic's website:

http://service.us.panasonic.com/OPERMANPDF/TH42PM50U.PDF
[/size][/QUOTE]

Bruzzi (or anyone), do you know if this remote will also function with the PX50U/PD50U consumer models? Reason I ask is, my father in law recently purchased a 42PX50U, and is not using the internal tuners. This remote would seem to be ideal in that scenario as it appears to have all the functionality one would need for the 50U displays, but without the clutter of all the extra buttons. (This stands to reason, since these are basically 42PD50U and 50PX50U displays without the internal tuners and digital audio out, and in a different bezel color).

[Bud-man]

mkoesel, i would say YES to that question, i brought my PA25's remote to costco and it worked fine with the PM, didnt even have to reprogram my DVR remote either.

[mkoesel]

[QUOTE=Bud-man]mkoesel, i would say YES to that question, i brought my PA25's remote to costco and it worked fine with the PM, didnt even have to reprogram my DVR remote either.[/QUOTE]

Thanks Bud-man.

So is any PM50U owner looking to part with their "squat ugly little" remote (as one poster put it :) )? If you do PM me. Course, I can probably always get one directly from Panasonic if there are no takers.

[JohninTonawanda]

I am in NY and trying to guide my mom (80) on a plasma purchase in FL. I just called Costco in West Palm to see if they had this Panny and the Maxent in stock. She said they had 2 or the panny's but would not be getting any more because her computer said "pending delete".
I asked her to check availability of the Maxent and she had 7 but also the comp said "pending delete".
She was pretty insistent that Costco would not be getting any more of these.

They were on backup generators due to the hurricane and I dont know if these sets are even plugged in so my mom could decide for herself which she liked better.

[Motegi]

[QUOTE=chanc]Thanks Bud-man. The MaXENT with component or hdmi inputs does not have ANY stretch modes only 16X9 or 4X3. I am talking digital and analog channels not HD.

I can use the stretch from the Moto box but it's really not watchable.

:mad:[/QUOTE]

The easy solution for this problem is to connect the cable box via S-video or composite IN ADDITION TO HDMI or component. Standard def analog/digital may look better over S-vid/composite anyway and you get all of the picture stretch modes through these inputs. When you want to watch HD then switch to Component or HDMI.

[chanc]

[QUOTE=Motegi]The easy solution for this problem is to connect the cable box via S-video or composite IN ADDITION TO HDMI or component. Standard def analog/digital may look better over S-vid/composite anyway and you get all of the picture stretch modes through these inputs. When you want to watch HD then switch to Component or HDMI.[/QUOTE]

That's exactly right. I did that. Does your image settings keep the aspect ratio for the S-video after you changed input? Mine does NOT. Reverted back to 16X9.

Thanks again,

;)

[lassen]

[QUOTE=JohninTonawanda]... I just called Costco in West Palm to see if they had this Panny and the Maxent in stock. She said they had 2 or the panny's but would not be getting any more because her computer said "pending delete".
I asked her to check availability of the Maxent and she had 7 but also the comp said "pending delete".
She was pretty insistent that Costco would not be getting any more of these.
[/QUOTE]

At our Costco the older Panasonic TH42PA25 units are pending delete (selling existing stock only). The TH42PM50U and larger TH50PM50U are the brand new models with 8G glass and no tuners. Based on past Costco model turnover, these will probably remain current for 6 months to a year.

Not sure about Maxent model changes or stock status.

[switkin]

on the 42" Panasonic - Does the s-video cable connection allow you to change the aspect ratio on all of the channels? The HD channels 700+ are sometimes full screen . . . I can't change the aspect on the other channels by going through the rca hook-up to the cable box! I'm in CT - THANKS

[chanc]

[QUOTE=switkin]on the 42" Panasonic - Does the s-video cable connection allow you to change the aspect ratio on all of the channels? The HD channels 700+ are sometimes full screen . . . I can't change the aspect on the other channels by going through the rca hook-up to the cable box! I'm in CT - THANKS[/QUOTE]

The S-video will allow you to change aspect ratio for the digital and analog channels. HD channels are changeable to full screen 16x9 or stretch only of 4x3 (stretch is barely watchable in my opinion). HBO HD Curb Your Enthusiasm is 4X3.

;)

[jrjr]

I have a Scientific Atlanta digital cable box.... Explorer 2100. It has S video out, rca jacks, and coax connectors. I dont really know that much about video.. will the digital signal pass through the s video? Now its just hooked up with the coax connectors to our 15 year old crt. Its time to replace it and I am looking at the 42PM at BJ's.

Should I be looking to upgrade the cable box too? Its the one supplied by Time Warner. We also have a VCR and a DVD player. The VCR is seldom if ever used. I have read this whole thread and have sort of figured out the terminology but if there are any recommendations I would be happy to hear them. Thanks!

[Bud-man]

S-vid is only good for SD signals, if you want to watch HD using S-vid thats your preference, i use component/hdmi for all channels.
jrjr, if you get a plasma, get a HD cable box, the PQ will blow you away.....time to trash that crt in the dump!!

[jrjr]

Budman, thanks for the response. How is your Panny holding up?

One thing I don't understand is the term ED. HD is high definition... The 42pm as I understand is ED. I must need an HD cable box to view ED then? And component... thats 3 (RGB) individual rca jacks correct?

Edit:
I found this in my searches:

EDTV: Also known as enhanced-definition or progressive-scan format, ED delivers a crisp, smooth digital picture that’s a step below HDTV but still a significant upgrade from analog. There’s no HD receiver necessary here, just a digital source such as a progressive-scan DVD player. The result is a stepped-up 480p resolution, and it’s ideal for those who enjoy DVD movies more than regular TV or cable.


Hmmm.... now I am confused even more LOL

[Bud-man]

jrjr, you need a hd box to view hd channels, ED sets upscale to 1080i so from 10 feet away alot of people including myself cant see any difference watching a ED to a HD plasma.
If the screen door effect bothers you like some here under 6 feet then get a HD resolution plasma.
Dvds look great on a ED plasma due to they display the native dvd resolution of 480p
Theres plenty of threads here to read about ED vs HD.

[jrjr]

[QUOTE=Bud-man]jrjr, you need a hd box to view hd channels, ED sets upscale to 1080i so from 10 feet away alot of people including myself cant see any difference watching a ED to a HD plasma.
If the screen door effect bothers you like some here under 6 feet then get a HD resolution plasma.
Dvds look great on a ED plasma due to they display the native dvd resolution of 480p
Theres plenty of threads here to read about ED vs HD.[/QUOTE]

I just talked to my cable provider. For a cost in the single digits per month I can have a DVR that has all the needed connections and the ability to record. They have a package that includes 3 HD channels but I wouldnt go for it. 2 sports and one movie channel.... There are 9 other channels that broadcast in HD and I will be able to take advantage of them. In fact, I can see that programming now with what I have so I dont necessarily have to have an HD box to see the programming, just to see the programming in high definition.

My room sets me 14' from where the screen is so that sounds like a good distance. There is a lot to learn for someone like me that has not kept up with the times. I went through a little of this 15 years ago when I bought the set I have now. It was state of the art at the time.

I might add that there are few resources out there to learn about this in laymans terms and I would think that a person with a non technical brain may encounter a very difficult time embracing all of the info one should know before making a well informed decision. Thanks for the input Bud Man, I have decided to go for the 42PM. :)

[R00K]

I have the 42PD50U and I love it. I couldn't justify the extra cost for HD seeing how the ED sets are the native resolution of DVD's. What I can justify are the built in tuners!!!

They are a must have for those using a SD input (like my Directv) When watching an OTA signal that is in HD like last nights Monday Night Football - the picture is astounding. Only a side by side comparison with a true HD set would anyone notice that it wasn't a HD set. Even watching SD Directv - people comment on the picture clarity. I did notice that the S-Video must be a good cable and inserted properly for the best picture.

Yes - crappy SD looks bad, and you never noticed it on smaller sets, but a crappy signal is crappy on HD just as much on ED - There aren't enough HD channels yet for me to upgrade my Directv box, and they are 2 years away from their MPEG4 switch, which from what I've read - still won't be true HD (1080i or 720p) I also understand that most cable companies also overcompress thier HD signals and you're still not getting the quality of an OTA signal.

I once again stress that the Built-in HDTV tuners are worth it - and Circuit City has the 42PD50U for $200 more than the Costco unit. Mine integrated perfectly with my existing rooftop antenna and even outputs digital 5.1 to my reciever. $200 well spent - trust me.

Rook

[cleoreve]

Rook, that's what you should go with if you have access to OTA HD, but not everyone lives in or close enough to a metro area to get OTA signals, HD or otherwise. So for those people no tuner is needed and the monitor sets are a better buy. don't you think?

[bukzin]

No numbers on the remote, I bought the TH-42PM50U [MSRP only please] last night (Nov 2nd '05) at Costco.

No serial connector, no USB, no tuners one HDMI connector (no cables provided)

[Bud-man]

[QUOTE=bukzin]No numbers on the remote, I bought the TH-42PM50U [MSRP only please] last night (Nov 2nd '05) at Costco.

No serial connector, no USB, no tuners one HDMI connector (no cables provided)[/QUOTE]

Sounds like you got ripped off!, my PM50 has 4 usb ports,serial ports,cat5 connector,300 gig hard drive and if you hit recall button twice you get into the windows longhorn media center 2006 edition....i think you got a lemon, i'd take it back!!

[Macfan424]

Last edited by markrubin : Today at 01:47 PM. Reason: MSRP only please
I know it's the forum rule, but since Panasonic says "See Dealer for Price " instead of an MRSP for the TH-42PM50U and Costco seems to be the only one that sells that model, wouldn't the Costco price be the MSRP?

Not that I care, but it just seems the spirit of the rule was not truly violated.

[Bud-man]

There's no official price on Panasonic's website as this panel isnt listed yet, so there is no mrsp yet.

[Macfan424]

[QUOTE=Bud-man]There's no official price on Panasonic's website as this panel isnt listed yet, so there is no mrsp yet.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, you're right. I was thinking of its predecessor, the TH-42PA25/U. :o Same comment would apply, though.

[RandyWalters]

[QUOTE=Macfan424]I know it's the forum rule, but since Panasonic says "See Dealer for Price " instead of an MRSP for the TH-42PM50U and Costco seems to be the only one that sells that model, wouldn't the Costco price be the MSRP?

Not that I care, but it just seems the spirit of the rule was not truly violated.[/QUOTE]Actually Costco isn't the only place that sells the TH-42PM50U. Costco doesn't sell anything at MSRP for that matter . . . .

[Macfan424]

[QUOTE=RandyWalters]Actually Costco isn't the only place that sells the TH-42PM50U. Costco doesn't sell anything at MSRP for that matter . . . .[/QUOTE]
Who else sells them (except on eBay)? I don't doubt there could be other sellers, but I've Googled both the PM50 and the PA25 a couple of times and never found another retailer for either. (Maybe I just used the wrong search terms. I wasn't terribly motivated, just curious.)

To avoid direct comparison, Costco does sell some unique items that don't have true MSRP's, which makes their selling price the de facto "recommended price," if not technically the manufacturer's list. That's a time honored retail practice, a variation of the private brand technique that was created while "Fair Trade" laws were in effect. Costco seems to do this with several plasmas. (And, of course, they do a lot of private branding with other products.)

[jrjr]

They do sell them at BJ's
I plan to get one this weekend. Only trouble is the one I saw didn't have the grey frame around the display. It was all silver. Visiting another BJ's or 2 and check out more closely before purchase. Even though it was all silver it had the correct numbers on it... odd eh?

[Spur]

Also saw this model at my local BJ's. It had the gray bezal. Know just witing on it's 50 inch big brother. Trying to decided between those 2 and the 508uk

[bukzin]

I guess you are saying that 'you get what you pay for'; you are correct.

I think this is a good set and a good value. I want more features and
will return this model for a more expensive one.

I think I want tuners and some type of PC input. I have a hole to mount
the TV in so do not need a flat screen.

Want better picture than ED, as well. Also want 42"

Any thoughts?

[jrjr]

I did it! Bought the 42PM yesterday at BJ's. I called first and they confirmed they had one in stock. When I got there all I found was the PA25. After asking, they had 3 PM's in stock so I bought one and a surround system as well. My PM has the grey bezel like others have said they have.

First impressions.... We love it! Been running it in standard with things turned down a bit. I still have the SD cable box and am running that off of the S Video connection. From what I have read here, I am surprised with the quality that this provides, much better than expected. I have the DVD player hooked up with component but don't dare run it yet due to the black bars at top and bottom. Actually after reading the manual on the DVD player, I can change aspect ratios on the DVD's but haven't tried it out yet. Kind of a bummer that you get a new tv and can't do everything possible with it in the beginning but I knew that coming in. Even though some people disregard the recommendations provided here on initial break in and have no trouble, I chose to listen and be patient.

I can't say that I like just or full very much. They seem to make things wide and out of proportion. For my taste zoom works but it does cut off some things. I guess I would rather see less and have it look correct. There are so many new things to learn it will take a while but that's fun for me....

Thanks for this great forum and the info it provides. It helped me make an informed decision.

:D

[jrjr]

One thing I forgot to ask....

I do have a bit of a green push, does anyone know how to get into the service menu?

[haveoneolboy]

[QUOTE=jrjr]One thing I forgot to ask....

I do have a bit of a green push, does anyone know how to get into the service menu?[/QUOTE]


Adjust the tint to -6, this should get rid of the green push.

[Macfan424]

[QUOTE=jrjr]...I have the DVD player hooked up with component but don't dare run it yet due to the black bars at top and bottom...[/QUOTE]
There are quite a large number of movies on DVD with a 1.85:1 aspect ratio that won't have black bars. Check the fine print on the back of the box.

Enjoy your new plasma. :)

[pbryant75]

I just got one of these tonight from Costco. I won't have a chance to plug it up until the weekend. Costco had a Maxent 42" HDTV MX-42X3 for only a $$$ more. The PQ on the Panny looked much better IMO. Should I have got the Maxent instead because it is HD? My veiwing distance is about 10'. Can any one recommend a wall mount for this baby? Thanks

[jcpzero]

I am happy with my PD50U at 10ft, and you like the PQ so the panny sounds great for you.

I skipped many a cheaper HD model as I like the panny PQ better. Over 3 months and still in awe of the PQ.

JCPZero

[gotchaforce]

anyone know how to force 852x480 on the computer with this thing? i want to play computer games/videos off my computer onto the screen with PROGRESSIVE scan since interlaced is not good for movies, but i cannot use 852x480... stupid thing :(

[BarnacleBill]

[QUOTE=jrjr]I have the DVD player hooked up with component but don't dare run it yet due to the black bars at top and bottom. Actually after reading the manual on the DVD player, I can change aspect ratios on the DVD's but haven't tried it out yet.[/QUOTE]
Actually, there is a setting for what kind or a TV you have, 4:3 or 16:9. When I got my new plasma, I had to change this setting (just once) for it to output a widescreen image without the bars. However, some DVDs are much wider than 16:9 (with is 1.78) such as 2.25. In this case the only way to get rid of the black bars is to use the zoom on the TV. You can vary the zoom percentage to just eliminate the black bars.

[Bud-man]

[QUOTE=gotchaforce]anyone know how to force 852x480 on the computer with this thing? i want to play computer games/videos off my computer onto the screen with PROGRESSIVE scan since interlaced is not good for movies, but i cannot use 852x480... stupid thing :([/QUOTE]

I tried my HTPC thru a dvi to hdmi cable and it wont do 852x480, i got 720x480 and 800x600, plus the overscan is pretty bad, half the taskbar is covered,but i can still navigate to media center fine.
It's possible powerstrip might be able to force into the native rez.

[gotchaforce]

[QUOTE=Bud-man]I tried my HTPC thru a dvi to hdmi cable and it wont do 852x480, i got 720x480 and 800x600, plus the overscan is pretty bad, half the taskbar is covered,but i can still navigate to media center fine.
It's possible powerstrip might be able to force into the native rez.[/QUOTE]

same, 720x480 and 800x600, i tried adding it in the screen resolutions and refresh settings in display options on my 6800NU but it wouldnt allow me... this makes no sense

[Bud-man]

[QUOTE=gotchaforce]same, 720x480 and 800x600, i tried adding it in the screen resolutions and refresh settings in display options on my 6800NU but it wouldnt allow me... this makes no sense[/QUOTE]

Is your screen overscanned also? it's like 2" too big all around,half the taskbar is missing on the bottom, all settings even in bio's have no effect,probably the reason panny forbid's PC use. i'm using a nvidia 5200 vid card.

[gotchaforce]

[QUOTE=Bud-man]Is your screen overscanned also? it's like 2" too big all around,half the taskbar is missing on the bottom, all settings even in bio's have no effect,probably the reason panny forbid's PC use. i'm using a nvidia 5200 vid card.[/QUOTE]

yep on pretty much any HD resolution its overscanned because its interlaced, you can fix that with the "overscan" option thinger that makes it 1164x667 or w/e instead of 1280x720 for example. i just want to run the damn thing in 852x480 progressive scan though

[Bud-man]

[QUOTE=gotchaforce]yep on pretty much any HD resolution its overscanned because its interlaced, you can fix that with the "overscan" option thinger that makes it 1164x667 or w/e instead of 1280x720 for example. i just want to run the damn thing in 852x480 progressive scan though[/QUOTE]

What's your setup?, we on the same wave length? theres no overscan adjust....you must have a commercial display, this is PM50 talk!!!
Anything over 800x600 isnt worth looking at with a ED plasma anyway

[gotchaforce]

[QUOTE=Bud-man]What's your setup?, we on the same wave length? theres no overscan adjust....you must have a commercial display, this is PM50 talk!!!
Anything over 800x600 isnt worth looking at with a ED plasma anyway[/QUOTE]
..

i have a th42pm50u, the overscan is in the menu of your geforce, dur.

[NLam]

So brand new to the forum... I've been "researching" 42" plasmas for about 1.5months now... i've debated sony vs. panasonic vs. samsung... ED vs HD... finally decided on panasonic ED
Was looking at the industrial panny model PHD7UY and its consumer model PHD8UK... couldn't find them at retailers... and didn't want to hassle with the online stuff
So the wifey goes Sam's Club and sees this PM50U and thus here I am reading on this... this seems to be the panel i want... and if I can find it at Costco... great... does anyone know if Sam's Club has the same return policy and price match...

So here's some questions...
a- lack of tuner... this panel will be mounted on the wall... I intend to go from cable line from the wall to a JVC DVD with progressive scan which will then go to a Technics receiver which will then go out to the S-Video on the PM50U.... will this work... please note, I'm not going through any cable boxes (only have one cable box hook up...downstairs)... its just simply wall output straight to the DVD... i don't see why i wouldn't get a signal this way... just making sure.
b- viewing distance... between 6ft- 9ft max.... what did of pic quality can i expect
c- HDMI... what audio components are compatible/necessary in order to go to HDMI... and is HDMI better than S-Video?

thanks!

[Bud-man]

A-use at least Component cables, s-vid quality isnt good for HD quality

B-that close expect the dreaded screen door effect....good luck at that...why so close?, you live in a closet?

C-HDMI requires at leaset a good upconvert dvd player if you want to use that or a DVR box

[cleoreve]

[QUOTE=gotchaforce]..

i have a th42pm50u, the overscan is in the menu of your geforce, dur.[/QUOTE]

Okay, I give up what is the geforce menu?

[Bud-man]

Ha, may the gforce be with you....here's the secret, hold down recall, then volume down then channel up, then power, then power again, then you'll see the secret geforce menu were you can adjust under/overscan.....etc

[jkv4]

[QUOTE=Bud-man]Ha, may the gforce be with you....here's the secret, hold down recall, then volume down then channel up, then power, then power again, then you'll see the secret geforce menu were you can adjust under/overscan.....etc[/QUOTE]


Do you still hold down recall when you power on and off?

[lassen]

[QUOTE=NLam]
So here's some questions...
a- lack of tuner... this panel will be mounted on the wall... I intend to go from cable line from the wall to a JVC DVD with progressive scan which will then go to a Technics receiver which will then go out to the S-Video on the PM50U.... will this work... please note, I'm not going through any cable boxes (only have one cable box hook up...downstairs)... its just simply wall output straight to the DVD... i don't see why i wouldn't get a signal this way... just making sure.
b- viewing distance... between 6ft- 9ft max.... what did of pic quality can i expect
[/QUOTE]

a- lack of tuner... Are you going straight from cable to the PM50U? If no cable box, then you will need QAM video tuner capability in either the receiver or DVD. I'm not familiar with any DVD players that have QAM tuners, but many DVD recorders do have tuners.

b- viewing distance... I notice SDE (the pixelated Screen Door Effect) at 6 ft, but not at 9 ft. Individual sensitivity to SDE seems to vary, so look for the individual dot grid up close, then back away until you don't notice the individual dots. Of course, with Costco you can't really go wrong, so you could try this at home and return it if problematic.

[Bud-man]

[QUOTE=jkv4]Do you still hold down recall when you power on and off?[/QUOTE]

Was all a joke.......... :D geforce is a video card in our HTPC's

[prr1957]

Let me join the crowd who have viewed the Pana TH-42PM50. Today I joined joined that group. Of all the plasma tv's on display without a doubt the PM50 was the best picture. I couldn't believe that there would be that much difference. I spent several minutes with employee in the electroics dept. He tried to down play the PM50 because it does not have an RF connection.I said I could just use a VCR player if necessay but he thought the tuner would be poor quality. I would guestion that. They had 5 boxed units on display. The price is what keeps me from pulling the trigger. Boscov's has the PD50 on sale for the same price as the PM50. Which one would you buy giving the liberal Costco return policy? I am in the Harrisburg PA area. Employee did say the Black Friday sales could possibly have a deal available on the PM50. Guess I'll at least wait for that. This is my first post , so give me some slack on my thread. Thanks. Would appreciate any imput.

[cmunro]

I just bought the TH-42PM50U at costco today. The picture is outstanding along with the price and by the way it does have speakers and a stand. The unit is missing the tuner but does have 2 sets of componet inputs and 1 HDMI input. I also own the 42PD50 and the pictures are identical only difference is the bezel color which is a grey on the TH-42PM50U. This television produces an outstanding picture. In short it's just a stripped down version of the 42PD50. I bought the Sharp 32" yesterday got it home and hooked up and realized is was way to small for the viewing distance of 10ft, for 200 dollars more I got this what a difference.

[nadum215]

The PM50 sucks compared to the PA25 I just returned. My DVI input was busted, but I can't believe what a decrease in picture quality it is. I'm crying on the inside.

[gotchaforce]

[QUOTE=cleoreve]Okay, I give up what is the geforce menu?[/QUOTE]

right click desktop > displays >

it will say PANASONIC and right beneath that it will say Overscan, just choose the "underscan" option and it will automatically do it for whatever resolution youre currently on

i still dont know how to do use this stupid thing with 852x480! if i could it would be absolutely PERFECT, but it just doesnt want to be used in progressive scan with a computer :mad:

[gotchaforce]

[QUOTE=nadum215]The PM50 sucks compared to the PA25 I just returned. My DVI input was busted, but I can't believe what a decrease in picture quality it is. I'm crying on the inside.[/QUOTE]

why dont you just return the friggin PM50 then?

[nadum215]

[QUOTE=gotchaforce]why dont you just return the friggin PM50 then?[/QUOTE]
Thats probably what I'm going to end up doing.

But how could a newer model of a TV decrease in quality so much?

Its just too much for one week. First TO, then Arrested Development, now my beloved TV?

[Bud-man]

[QUOTE=nadum215]The PM50 sucks compared to the PA25 I just returned. My DVI input was busted, but I can't believe what a decrease in picture quality it is. I'm crying on the inside.[/QUOTE]

I think the opposite, the PA has serious false contouring issue's esp looking at clouds and underwater scenes, theres like rings of gradiants around them, hated that, also the pm is more vibrant and colorful due to the 8 billion colors and over 4000+ shades of grey.
Just go back and get your PA back, before it hit's the crusher!!

[nadum215]

[QUOTE=Bud-man]I think the opposite, the PA has serious false contouring issue's esp looking at clouds and underwater scenes, theres like rings of gradiants around them, hated that, also the pm is more vibrant and colorful due to the 8 billion colors and over 4000+ shades of grey.
Just go back and get your PA back, before it hit's the crusher!![/QUOTE]

*Edit*

I just can't sit as close as I could with the PA. I think I'm just having a bad week. Once it has a chance to break in I figure it'll be okay. It definately looks a lot better from far away.

[Bud-man]

Yea nadum215, tone it down some as it's alot brighter and more" jaggy edged" looking, it took some time to get used too, i also had both hooked up like in store side by side before i took the PA back.
Let me know your setup.

[smak]

I took a look at this set today at CostCo and really liked it. In fact, James Lesure from the Las Vegas TV show was there looking at it right when I got it, and bought it.

I have a friend at Costco, and he said there might be some good deals right before Thanksgiving, so i'm going to wait, and see what else is available, but if there's not anything that stands out, i think i'm going to buy it.

-smak-

[NLam]

[QUOTE=Bud-man]A-use at least Component cables, s-vid quality isnt good for HD quality

B-that close expect the dreaded screen door effect....good luck at that...why so close?, you live in a closet?

C-HDMI requires at leaset a good upconvert dvd player if you want to use that or a DVR box[/QUOTE]

Bud-Man
A- so can i use my standard DVD player as the component input to the Panny and get a picture... and someone mentioned my DVD needs to have QAM... what's that...
B- this Panny is going in our upstairs loft... so its smaller than the standard living/family room... so i should expect to have SDE...

[cleoreve]

Bud-man, you are up and at 'em early this Sunday morning.

[RandyWalters]

[QUOTE=nadum215]The PM50 sucks compared to the PA25 I just returned. My DVI input was busted, but I can't believe what a decrease in picture quality it is. I'm crying on the inside.[/QUOTE]The PM50 picture quality is widely reported to be better than the previous models including the PA25. Something is wrong with your PM50 or the setup or sumthin.

[lassen]

[edit: Reply to NLam's post regarding Costco in S.F. not allowing price adjustments after 30 day unless merchandise is physically returned. Original NLam section deleted by CheriDave because it also contained dealer pricing...]


That's the rule at the two Costco stores near us also - 30 days for price adjustments with receipt. After that you must pack the whole unit up and return it with receipt for a customer satisfaction refund. Wish we had Bud-man's Costco around here!

BTW, there's an employee thread on the Costco Retail Workers forum (titled "Abusive Returns") that discusses this issue, and the 30 day price adjustments being only recently enforced (sounds like erratic enforcement too).

[nadum215]

I also got a Moto 3412 to replace my 6412 pII so its all just a lot of change. After playing some Xbox, and re-reading the thread, it was just a matter of sitting too close, toning it down, breaking it in and getting used to the text issue (which I can hardly notice now).

For now I've just got the Moto & Xbox going in through component. Ordered an HDMI cable from monoprice so when that gets here I'll have cable through that and the PS2/Xbox through Component.

Was wondering if anyone had any Prog-Scan DVD player & surround sound recommendations for this TV.

[Bud-man]

nadum215, i have the 6412 phase 3 and it does not playback 5:1 sound with the hdmi connected, there is a bunch of threads on this in the PVR forum, newer firmware fixes this but i have Cox and no firmware yet, is the 3412 a smaller box?, also how big is the hard drive?

Also this 30 day only price match is making me nervous, could be a reality here also, have to check with my local costco.

[nadum215]

The 3412 isn't as deep as the 6412. Other than that, you couldn't really tell any aesthetic difference. Its available in 120-300something gigs from Motorola, Comcast elected 120 gigs. Cox might get the bigger one, but no such luck for us Comcast customers.

*Edit* as far as the Costco price protection, I wouldn't worry about it at all. The threat of bringing back your TV and exchanging it for a new one will make any sane manager just match your price.