Just purchased the Sony 3100ES, giving up on the "upscaling" thing

[soldonandy]

I have been anti-upscaling regarding in spite of all the propaganda that the digital cable eliminates a conversion, blah, blah, blah. Maybe I felt this way because I invested in a Denon 2900 and had a CRT display which was supposedly not HDMI friendly. Well, I converted all my TVs recently to LCD's and it gave me an excuse to revisit the DVD situation in my house. I sold my Denon 2900 and bought a cheapy Panasonic S77 which is nice for the money. The HDMI seemed to look fairly decent on my Hitachi 32" lcd so I decided to ship the S77 into a secondary room with a smaller lcd and I set my sights on even a better player in the new Sony 3100ES. The Sony for under $500 is alot of player in terms of build and features, I popped in a DVD via the HDMI and everything looked crisp with a nice 3-D image but unfortunately the faces looked very splotchy, I flipped back the component cable and everything looked normal. I should have never gotten rid of my Denon although the lack of the disc resume memory feature will not be missed nor will the vibrating. I have not tested the Sony long enough to have an opinion but am anticipating that it should perform well. I have 30 days so we will see but I am a little dissapointed because I finally get to jump on the upcaling bandwagon and I find myself going back to component. Oh well.

[BillP]

How did the S77 compare to the Sony? I would expect the Panny to look better (better chip).

[jedi29]

I have the "3100ES" and am only using HDMI , I think the picture looks good , although every eye is different ;)
I would realy like to know more about what goes on "under the hood" ??
How about the stuff that makes it do what it does ?
What kind of chips ? DA converters ? Video Processors ect.
And what makes the "9100ES" 800 bucks more ?
Good luck :)
Gary

[Uninvited Guest]

Does the 3100 ES have the same vertical shift/compression the the NS70H & NS90V have?

I saw a post earlier that the new 9100ES has a small amount of shift.

I picked up a DVP-NS70H for "get me by player" and I get a 3/4"-1" bar at the top when using HDMI @ 1080i on my 60" Sony SXRD.

[jedi29]

Not that I can see . I too had the 70H and returned it .
I know am trying thr 3100ES and there are no video gaps , shifts , ect. that the 70 & 90 have.
Since this "gap-thing" surfaced , I have seen the problem even on tv :confused: , but no where near as bad as the 70H when using HDMI.
Cable "digital" is still NTSC :( only HD is HD , so I think I`m just more likely to examine the picture that I`m watching a little closer than I need to!!
But I`m get of topic , ( it`s early ) 3100ES no problem with picture !
Gary

[JonStern]

[QUOTE=jedi29]And what makes the "9100ES" 800 bucks more ?
[/QUOTE]

As I mentioned in another thread, I just got the 9100. Information seems to be sparse but Crutchfield mentions a "high-speed video buffer provides fast, accurate error correction" feature for the 9100.

Although I initially saw some vertical compression over 720p and 1080i hdmi, it was less than half as bad as was the case with the 70H. Then I played "Vanilla Sky" and there was no compression and the PQ blew me away. I'm starting to think that all those 1.85:1 dvds actually vary a bit as far as their aspect ratios and that SOME letterboxing is in fact an accurate representation of what's on the dvd.

I played the 2.35:1 Bourne Identity and measured picture height on my Panny 37PX50U at 14 1/8" for 720p hdmi and 14 1/2" for composite (420p). Much less of a difference than was the case with the 70H where the skewed aspect ratio over hdmi actually made faces, etc. noticeably fatter. With the 9100 the hdmi output actually looks a little more accurate than component.

The unit is extremely solid except for the plasticy tray and cheesy remote.

[soldonandy]

[QUOTE=BillP]How did the S77 compare to the Sony? I would expect the Panny to look better (better chip).[/QUOTE]

So far, the Sony surpasses the S77 on most levels, some by only a thin margin. Agreed that the faroudja chip is more popularly considered "better" under scientific analysis. All things being equal, however, I'd trade the faroudja for a more robust power supply, better shielding and separate audio/video boards. These factors seem to give the Sony the edge in depth of field, noise and detail. Just like the S77 offers some decent specs, it is still double the price of lets say a Pioneer 588 which doesn't give you faroudja but build wise it offers the same class of limitations and performance wise, gives up only a small margin. The Sony at $450 doubles the price one more level but gives you twice the build and far less compromises that are found in the slim box designs. Further, the transport of the Sony gives you something more in common with the more expensive players where as everything about the S77 is more in line with the cheaper crowd. I have found that DVD players like Rotel for instance that do not have an emphasis on marketing the type of "chip" but implement the chip they use well with a good design and power supply are capable of outputting a very clean picture. Along these lines, I think the Sony has the potential to be an excellent value, time will tell.

[soldonandy]

Thats what I thought.

[sstowers]

This could be serious. I just purchased the Sony NS-3100ES DVD player and it failed to carry the HMDI signal to my projector via HDMI to DVI adapter.

My projector, Optoma H79 has a DVI input. I used the DVI-HDMI adapter and ran HDMI to the 3100ES. Over several days I came to realize the Sony could not passthrough a signal via HDMI to DVI adapter. I took out my DVI to HDMI connection and ran it to the HD cable box and no problem, the signal was transferred from the cable box to the projector onto the screen. I was baffled, one would expect the lower resolution from the DVD would be easier to transfer than HD resolution. That's when I knew it was the DVD player, 3100ES.

I called Sony, they had no clue. First level of service told me that I had to have the Video Off switch to "off" to playback through HDMI, that made no sense and didn't work. Sony's second level of service said it was a faulty HDMI input and told me to return it.

When I took it back to my A/V store they tested the 3100ES and it worked via HDMI. However, when I got it home, via HDMI came up blank again. (Note, component worked with no problem) Then I realized, let me test the 3100ES with a tv with DVI. I went to a neighbor who happened to have a flat-panel Dell with a DVI-I input just like my projector. We set it up and again, just as I thought, no signal.


I then returned the 3100ES to my A/V store, they weren't too happy, they seemed more interested in how they would sell an "open box" item rather than the fact they may have the same problem with future 3100ES purchasers. :mad: Anyway, I exchanged it for the Denon 1920, took it home and it worked. The Denon was able to transfer the HDMI signal through my DVI-HDMI adapter. I was slightly perturbed becasue the audio on the 3100ES was fantastic. But, I have no use for it, if the video can't transfer a signal via HDMI.

I would be interested to hear from anyone else that had this problem with the 3100ES.