View Full Version : HDMI version 1.2 + 1080p = new gen LCDS soon?
I am wondering if the new generation LCD panels appering next to the current models in the market will be featuring panels with native 1080p HD resolution and even more important: the new protocol for HDMI , the version 1,2 which will support all the PC resolutions correctly plus hi def sound ( Super audio CD ).
Anyone has some info that can share regarding brands and sizes of new gen. LCD panels? :rolleyes:
assJack1
11-09-05, 06:43 AM
I'm pretty sure you want HDMI v1.3. Supposedly v1.2 just did some audio adjustments and that bandwidth didnot actually increase. HDMI v1.3 increases bandwidth to 225mhz and is targeted towards 1080p
AVS forum member Holl_ands posted an excellent link to this here:
http://hdtv.forsandiego.com/messages/460/3459.html?1131406822#POST21139
Thanks for the link it was very good.
chuckvb
11-09-05, 11:10 AM
When I read the article it says 1.2 helped in PC resolution/ color issues and interface but that 1.3 add's 1080P support for PC's. And thus 1.2 would help with PC interfacing except for 1080P
Yes that's why I am looking foreward to seeing new panels with the 1,2 HDMI on. Of cource 1080p native resolution is very important, but I would be very happy to own a 32 inch 1360x768 LCD panel with HDMI 1,2 so that I can at last see digital PC 1x1 pixel mapped image on the LCD screen... :cool: So do you think that the next panels that appear will include the new 1,2 HDMI?
I'm not sure why, but for some strange reason Westinghouse 37" works very well with computer input at 1920x1080p @60 fps. and according to specs DVI single link supports 1920x1080 and DVI dual link is good up to 2048x1596. I also thought HDMI was newer and therefore little faster than DVI. So where is the problem with current HDMI version? Or is this again all about that $#@%$ copy protection.
Current HDMI does not support the PC signals properly and thus cannot be used properly to display PC resolutions. That's why so many ppl have no success connecting PC through HDMI. I am hoping that the newer HDMI version will solve these problems and LCD displays will be what they are supposed to be: perfect partners to the HTPCs...
minimal
11-09-05, 04:24 PM
For HTPC's HDMI has been nothing but a huge step backwards in functionality. With DVI practically gone from new sets we are now stuck with VGA, once again going backwards. With all the talk of computer/tv convergence you would think the HDMI spec should have had proper PC support already.
I know ...it sucks. Lets hope the companies realise what a mistake this is and properly support the PCs with their panels....
So still, no one has heard if any newer model will feature new HDMI ???
First of all the only reason HDMI was created is to put heavy DRM protection into it. Everything else in designing HDMI was secondary, so why such a huge surprise that some things don't work well or not at all? There is enough bandwidth in DVI for 1080p signal, HDMI supposed to have higher capacity than DVI so it should work with 1080p from the start. If it doesn't, the only reason I can think off is DRM encryption and related issues. All I have to do now is to never buy HDTV with HDMI and look for DVI inputs instead.
mkoesel
11-10-05, 04:23 AM
[QUOTE=minimal]For HTPC's HDMI has been nothing but a huge step backwards in functionality. With DVI practically gone from new sets we are now stuck with VGA, once again going backwards. With all the talk of computer/tv convergence you would think the HDMI spec should have had proper PC support already.[/QUOTE]
It is puzzling that the display manufacturers have decided that HDMI should replace DVI as a digital interface instead of augment it. The reality of the situation is that DVI is still used (and will apparently be used for the forseeable future) as the digital interface for computer monitors. As such it should remain an available input on modern televisions and displays that wish to advertise PC connectivity. I would be perfectly happy with my HDMI ports only supporting consumer electronics signals (480p, 1080i, etc) now and into the future, as long as my display still has at least one DVI input for supporting computer video signals. In fact I'd happily give up analog inputs altogether for a display that simply had 3 HDMI inputs and one DVI input.
They have found a way to push the protection over the DVI too. ATI cards now are DHCP copmatible, this protocol is a part of the upcoming windows Vista, and the result is that unles you have a DHCP compatible monitor, you won't be able to watch DVDs on your desctop !!! What is very stupid is, that at the moment the whole planet uses monitors that are not DHCP compatible, hence soon the LCD monitors will soon start to sell as before....
I know, we are all lab animals to them....
From a practical design standpoint, any monitor that has an HDMI and DVI port will already have HDCP on the DVI port.
HDMI has more bandwidth than DVI, but the portion allocated for video is still 165MHz, just like DVI single-link. We are able to do 1080p over DVI single-link. I'm not sure if the limitation in HDMI is because of HDCP or just because people feel they can't do 1080p within 165MHz. We heard the same limitation for DVI, but apparently with slight reduced frequencies, 1080p can be done over DVI single-link.
Well, unfortunatelly they don't have it. There is a whole article in PC WORLD magazine issue November 2005 titled : "Consumer Alert : Most monitors won't play new HD video" ... So it's bad news for all of us. :(
[QUOTE=Orc]Well, unfortunatelly they don't have it. There is a whole article in PC WORLD magazine issue November 2005 titled : "Consumer Alert : Most monitors won't play new HD video" ... So it's bad news for all of us. :([/QUOTE]
Really? They have a *HDMI* and *DVI* port, but the DVI port does not support HDCP? I understand DVI only monitors not supporting HDCP, but am surprised displays which have both decided to not include HDCP on the DVI port. I know Sharp's DVI port has HDCP.
EDIT:
So I read the article and basically it says be wary of buying a DVI display w/o HDCP. This is a known issue in the AVS community (widely discussed for over a year).
My point was that if you bought a display with an HDMI port (which has HDCP by definition) then if the monitor also provided a DVI port, it would very likely have HDCP on the DVI port.
I do think it is bogus you have to upgrade to Windows Vista just to watch HD DVD. I think I'm just going to stick with upconverted regular DVDs. I'm sick of playing this game with the studios where they keep pushing new restrictive technology but haven't finalized the specs, which results in constant technically unnecessary upgrades to support their copy protection scheme which seems to be designed by the seat of their pants.
[QUOTE=Orc]Well, unfortunatelly they don't have it. There is a whole article in PC WORLD magazine issue November 2005 titled : "Consumer Alert : Most monitors won't play new HD video" ... So it's bad news for all of us. :([/QUOTE]
That's is not true, yes they do have protection but maybe it's not good enough for them? Most newer monitors have DVI with HDCP but since there is no 1080p content to speak off yet they can change protection to more secure one in the future.
minimal
11-10-05, 01:14 PM
[QUOTE=mkoesel]I would be perfectly happy with my HDMI ports only supporting consumer electronics signals (480p, 1080i, etc) now and into the future, as long as my display still has at least one DVI input for supporting computer video signals. In fact I'd happily give up analog inputs altogether for a display that simply had 3 HDMI inputs and one DVI input.[/QUOTE]
I agree. The problem is the top 4, Sony, Samsung, Panasonic and even Sharp on their new sets have completely abandoned DVI. So an update to the HDMI spec is in dire need. As it stands right now because of HDMI's limitations I'm playing the waiting game. The only 2 LCD sets that my eyes agree on is Sony's XBR and Panasonic's LX50 (favouring the Panasonic) and none of which can give me a proper 1:1 digital connection to my HTPC. VGA is not even an option, it can't die soon enough for me.
[QUOTE=minimal]The problem is the top 4, Sony, Samsung, Panasonic and even Sharp on their new sets have completely abandoned DVI. So an update to the HDMI spec is in dire need.[/QUOTE]
Sharp still has DVI on their high-end models (ie the largest sizes). I agree HDMI spec needs to be revised instead of selling consumers interim specs. Personally I consider a spec that is upgrade every year an interim spec.
Silicon Image has not even published the 1080P spec for HDMI as of yet.
That's a good point, pretty much everyone uses Silicon Image chipset. Once they support 1080p, everyone else will fall in line.
mkoesel
11-10-05, 07:09 PM
[QUOTE=minimal]The only 2 LCD sets that my eyes agree on is Sony's XBR and Panasonic's LX50 (favouring the Panasonic) and none of which can give me a proper 1:1 digital connection to my HTPC. VGA is not even an option, it can't die soon enough for me.[/QUOTE]
One possible solution is to try the industrial verison of the Panasonic, the TH-32LHD7UY. You could replace the stock component and composite blades with a DVI and HDMI blade (or two DVI blades if you have two devices that support the native rate). And you'd still have the VGA port to accept legacy component or RGB signals if you need to.
Sorry, I didn't get it . What ? How? Does it work ?
OMG ! I read about this panel !!! I wish I could buy it !!!
"In addition to the fixed input interface, the Panasonic LCD has two interchangeable slots that let you add different combinations of optional terminal boards. This gives you the flexibility to add digital or analogue capabilities, as necessary, and to customize your system for specific needs."eek
Wow I didn't even know such a thing existed !!
minimal
11-11-05, 11:20 AM
[QUOTE=mkoesel]One possible solution is to try the industrial verison of the Panasonic, the TH-32LHD7UY. You could replace the stock component and composite blades with a DVI and HDMI blade (or two DVI blades if you have two devices that support the native rate). And you'd still have the VGA port to accept legacy component or RGB signals if you need to.[/QUOTE]
When I first came across this panel a months ago the prices I saw here in Canada were astronomical, it made Sony's prices look like a bargain. Although since you reminded me I checked again today and they have decreased in price considerably, way below the consumer panels. I think my wait is finally over.
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