Anyone using SageTV 4.0 and OTA HDTV?

[tgable]

I'm wondering how it works, does Sage just list new stations and you can DVR either the HD or analog? If you use this setup, can you share your hardware specs?

[Birdman71]

I'm using it and I think it works excellent. I had plenty of problems setting it up but it works very well.

I had been using Beyond TV since it was known as the Personal Video Station. I made the switch to Sage when they became the first to support HD. Since my NTSC days I already had a PVR-150 and PVR-250 and have added a Fusion 5 lite and an A180.

Now onto my initial problems. I had always planned on building up a large capacity capture machine and stuffing it into the closet. My problem was I started running into IRQ conflicts. I had hoped to use both HD cards and at least one analog card but between the NIC, drive controller, video, etc. I started having stuttering playback while recording. I tried changing the HAL to standard PC, changing BIOS settings, different PCI slots, but all to no avail. I eventually scrapped the analog card and am running the 2 HD cards by themselves. It works great.

I'm using an old Athlon 1g machine for my capture machine. Updating it's BIOS allowed for LBA48 large drives on the main controller but the onboard Promise Raid still only supports <137g drives. I decided I'd rather have the additional drive space than an analog tuner since I have 2 older 120g and 2 80g drives to fill those channels. Between 6 data drives I have about 800g of storage.

I only need one channel listing now since I only use the HD tuners but I had two listings working when I had the analog card going. The accuracy of the listing is pretty critical but there are ways around most issues.

For the digital cards I picked my location during setup and chose the Over the air program source. Most of the digital channels are already there and have correct listings. For the ones that are missing you can add the channel manually but probably won't have program listings or you can remap the analog channel to the digital channel's location. That will allow it to tune to the digital channel instead of the analog one. If you're station has subs and they aren't listed you can still add them manually but you're SOL for listings unless you can get zap2it or Sage to get them updated.

If you are also using an analog tuner, setup another listing. When sources share listings it is assumed that they can all receive the same channels so be sure to use another listing for analog. I picked my same location but picked the local cable provider as the service. When it asks about tuning pick broadcast so it knows the proper tuning frequency to use. Since the cable channels are probably different than the broadcast ones, use the remap again to put the correct channels on the correct number. The only potential problem is where you had to remap an analog during the digital setup because of a missing digital channel. I was lucky that my location has several stations belonging to the same network (i.e. translators) that show in my listings. I used one of those channels and remapped it to replace the already used channel.

This may sound confusing but it's really not to hard to setup. Once I figured out I needed two listings and both can use broadcast tuning it was a piece of cake. I only use the one listing now but I'm thinking about installing another antenna to pickup my missing PBS station and going back to two listings. When I aim the antenna for PBS I lose another main station but I can get all others from either aim point so with two antennas I would have all my channels again.

So for hardware:

Capture machine:
Athlong 1gig
512 Meg Ram
Geforce 2
Tons o' storage
100Mbit NIC

Playback machines:
Athlon 2500
512 Meg Ram
Geforce 5200
Boot drive only

I don't even try to playback HD on that slow capture machine. But all the extender functions work great.

My playback machines use Sage Client. The client software works great. My first client machine (only one that works right now) is using the Geforce 5200. It's fast enough to decode HD with Overlay but not VMR9. I use the nVidia codecs but have also had good luck with the WinDVD 7 trial codecs.

My second client machine is still a work in progress. It's video card is too slow to decode HD. It works but stutters badly. I'm waiting on an out of stock 6200 to get back in stock at Newegg and I'll be in business.

I use the Hauppauge remote controls on the two client machines and they work great. My primary client machine always had one of the Hauppauge cards since it is my HTPC and used to do the capturing with Beyond TV. The upside of the IRQ conflicts in the capture machine is that the analog card (with remote) moved to my main machine which is becoming my second playback machine once I get the new 6200.

I'm experimenting with dual displays running one output to my RPTV upstairs and the other output to my normal monitor. I hit a stopping point with the slow video card but it's looking promising. It it works out I'll be using one machine as my normal computer with it also outputting to my HDTV. The rooms are back to back so I've already run the cabling connecting the two rooms and have a reverse KVM with two keyboard/mice and the Hauppauge remote up and running...

Mike

[Karyk]

I'm using it for HD only, and like the prior poster, setup was a bear, but that was with the beta version. I suspect my issue would be the same (needed to change audio codec), but I'm not sure.

I'm using it with a Fusion 3 Gold, Athon64 3000+, 6600GT and two hard drives (one for OS one for recordings). It works great except I'm having a file fragmentation issue that affects viewing files being recorded that are longer than two hours (e.g. football games). Some stuttering if still recording. Apparently I should have formated the recording drive in 64k clusters, something I'll need to change.

Anyway, Sage is pretty much as good as a Tivo in functionality, and the mouse support is first rate. I don't have it set up to use a remote at all.

[tgable]

Thanks for the info. I just ordered a Fusion 5 lite, hopefully it plays nice with my PVR-250.

[SCM]

tgable,

Some of the conflicts people have experienced with Sage and capture cards have resulted from older VIA chipsets on the motherboard. I had serious problems with my computer doing hard restarts after I installed a PVR-500 until I switched motherboards for one with an Intel chipset. I now run a PVR-500, PVR150 and a Fusion 5 Lite in my Sage Server without a problem. Also, the formatting issue Karyk mentioned is real. I didn't do this at first and had significant stuttering problems with HD. After I upgraded to the newest Sage release and reformatted my capture harddrive with 64K clusters, I am not having problems at all. Good luck.

[IVB]

BAck when my Fusion 3 Gold was working [having OS level issues right now], SageTV4.0 and HDTV recording literally took me 5 mins to setup. It was the one of easiest things I'd ever done. All I did was install the card, drivers, then select it via SageTV and et voila, I get HDTV recording.

[Suntan]

Any chance this 64kb clusters is specific to Sage, or a general recommendation?

I just started running Beyond TV and, although I do not seem to suffer much from stutters, I'll take any extras I can get.

-Suntan

[gbrnole]

threw my new a180 into the sage box tonight. 15 mins later i was recording and watching HD.

[Karyk]

[QUOTE=Suntan]Any chance this 64kb clusters is specific to Sage, or a general recommendation?n[/QUOTE]

Given the size of HD programs, it probably isn't a bad idea, but it seems to be specific to Sage as to the stuttering. But actually, on my computer it's varied for each release of Sage's beta, and been affected even by video drivers, so probably not a bad idea to be safe, assuming you have a separate partition.

[stanger89]

[QUOTE=Suntan]Any chance this 64kb clusters is specific to Sage, or a general recommendation?[/QUOTE]

It's a common recommendation from SageTV, don't know why it would be specific to Sage though. Theoretically, larger clusters are better for read/write performance, however since clusters can't be allocated partially, smaller clusters are often default to minimize wasted space. But since media files are generally many orders of magnitude larger than the cluster size, there's no benefit to run small clusters for volumes storing media.

[Commodore 64]

I'm liking SageTV 4 so much that I installed Meedio last night.

Seriously, I thought Media Portal was buggy, but that was OK since it is free and a work in progress. SageTV is so finnicky, I swear,and for no apparent reason. SOmetimes, I'll start up Live TV or go to play a video and it will give me a directX error. If I go into setup and click around a few times WITHOUT CHANGING A THING, it miraculously works.

Other times, the picture will just disappear right in the middle of watching TV. When you try to watch TV again, it will give you some bogus 'DirectX is not installed properly", at which point you can go into setup, view a few settings, and then it works again. At no point do you need to actually CHANGE a setting, you just need to look around in there.

I'm feeling really good about dropping $100 bucks on SageTV and SageTV Client. :rolleyes: . I'm not blaming Sage for me spending the money without exhaustively testing the software, but it just chaps my ass that much more.

[Karyk]

Commadore, do you have Full Screen Exclusive on? If so, try turning it off. FSE causes a lot of strange issues on some computers.

The other thing to try would be a different video codec, but I doubt that's the issue.

[stanger89]

How clean is your OS install. Media stuff is a lot worse that most apps for cluttering up a system with crap and causeing wonky behavior. If you can, you might want to try the nuke-and-pave method.

[IVB]

Honestly, I've had SageTV & 2 SageTVClients used daily for 2 years and have gone through several versions, and have never encountered a DirectX issue or any other hint of instability. For me, their software just plain works. This is on 3 different machines, each of which have different ATI cards and different mobos, [Asus A7N8X, Asus A7V600, Abit NF7-S2G]

Is the machine in your sig the one that SageTV is on? Which one is the Client on? Do you get the DirectX issues on the client or server?

Like stanger says, this feels like an OS-level issue. Perhaps the reason MEdia Portal was buggy and SageTV was throwing errors was b/c of that, not the PVR software.

[Suntan]

But since media files are generally many orders of magnitude larger than the cluster size, there's no benefit to run small clusters for volumes storing media.


Makes sense, although I never even thought about it. Losing space at the end of a file due to large cluster sizes isn't a big deal when there are only about 15 files on it.

I'll have to catch up on all my backlogged shows this weekend so I can reformat that drive.

-Suntan

[Commodore 64]

[QUOTE=stanger89]How clean is your OS install. Media stuff is a lot worse that most apps for cluttering up a system with crap and causeing wonky behavior. If you can, you might want to try the nuke-and-pave method.[/QUOTE]

Oh it's dirty.

Let's see. I've had an 9700pro, a 6200, and now a 6600GT on here, with numerous installs of nV drivers since component out is broken in the 81.95 drivers, I have to use a 78.x version. I've had 3 TV cards in here (2 Avermedias and a Vbox). Now just the Vbox is in here. I've got Onboard sound and a Chaintech AV-710.


I've got Media Portal, and a millions CVS version of it have been installed and uninstalled.

SageTV 4 installed (and uninstalled and reinstalled).

Meedio installed.

Theatretek installed.

AnyDVD installed (I only use 1920 x 1080 @ 30HZ for everything, damned macrovision)

And I've messed with a billion codecs, and FFdshow.

I'm pretty good about manually cleaning out the registry though and managing filters with Radlight :eek: . At least I thought I was.

Also I just got my USB-UIRT from the sage store, and it seems like I am setting it up properly...I wanted to use it to program the Live TV and Guide buttons on MCE remote to their analogs in SageTV. Sage takes the code from the UIRT, but the buttons don't do anything.

I'd also like to make the Green Button launch and close SageTV, although ifI could get Sage to work like I want it to, I'd never have to close it.



[QUOTE=IVB]Honestly, I've had SageTV & 2 SageTVClients used daily for 2 years and have gone through several versions, and have never encountered a DirectX issue or any other hint of instability. For me, their software just plain works. This is on 3 different machines, each of which have different ATI cards and different mobos, [Asus A7N8X, Asus A7V600, Abit NF7-S2G]

Is the machine in your sig the one that SageTV is on? Which one is the Client on? Do you get the DirectX issues on the client or server?

Like stanger says, this feels like an OS-level issue. Perhaps the reason MEdia Portal was buggy and SageTV was throwing errors was b/c of that, not the PVR software.[/QUOTE]

I haven't even installed the client yet on my other HTPC. I wanted to get this one working properly first.

I hate nuking and paving. But while we are considering it here is an issue I'm worried about:

I know the quartz.dll in the SP2 was borked in DirectX 9.0c right? Well I use a XP2 slipstream disk that I made with the release day SP2. And I know there are crazy issues trying to replace the old quartz.dll with the even older one that purportedly works right from 9.0b. So should I use the original non-slipstream disc and use windows update to install the SP2 upgrades?

[IVB]

[QUOTE=Commodore 64]Oh it's dirty.

...

I hate nuking and paving. But while we are considering it here is an issue I'm worried about:

I know the quartz.dll in the SP2 was borked in DirectX right? Well I use a XP2 slipstream disk that I made with the release day SP2. And I know there are crazy issues trying to replace the old quartz.dll with the even older one that purportedly works right from 9.0b. So should I use the original non-slipstream disc and use windows update to install the SP2 upgrades?[/QUOTE]

The fact that I have no idea what you just said makes me want to request that you reconsider your nuke&pave stance. About a month ago, i made 4 consecutive idiot moves which 1) killed my OS HD, then 2)killed my mobo, then ...

I got very good about nuke+pave, and honestly my system has never run cleaner. I can now re-setup my HTPC from scratch in 3 hours, and I know exactly what programs are on there and they all just work.

[Commodore 64]

Hmm. I think the quartz.dll thing is no longer relevant anyways. I just searched the Sage Forums.

Maybe I will just go ahead and reformat the sucker and just install, sageTV 4, Theatretek ( I need the nV Decoders from it), AnyDVD, and FFDshow. And if it works, I'm going to image the OS partition to another drive on my network so I can always just start fresh when need be.

[IVB]

If it's not too much trouble, you could try that in babysteps.

First reformat, then install just SageTV & TT so you can watch DVDs & TV. Then when that works repeatably and with stability, add AnyDVD so you can rip.

Once all that is done, then install FFDShow so you can get a pretty picture. However, no need for optimizing your picture until you actually have a picture that stays up :-)

[Commodore 64]

Regarding FFdshow, I don't even use it to upconvert. I need FFdshow because it's the only way I can decode the h264 stuff that I encoded. I can't seem to find a standalone h264 decoder that works.

I use AnyDVD to circumvent macrovision issues because I can't play a DVD at 1080i over component without it. And my TV only accepts component for 1080i stuff.

[Commodore 64]

Update: You guys were right.

I nuked the HTPC from orbit last night and started from scratch. SageTV works great, VMR 9, FSE works great, the picture is fantastic! And it has been very stable!

I didn't even install MEdia Portal or Meedio this time.

I still don't quite have the USB-UIRT setup properly though. I'm trying to use t with the MCE remote, but it seems like SageTV already responds to most of the keys the way I want it to. I'd like to set-up Live TV and Guide and DVD menu to work, and while Sage will take the USB-UIRT codes, they buttons still don't seem to have any function .


Regarding the OP quetion. I use an ATSC card so all I get is digital stations. I just tell the Program Guide what I want to record and it records it to a 100GB partition on my local HD. The digital stations are listed sepparately from the I think analog stations because...digital stations have a DT after their call letters like WKYCDT instead of just WKYC.

[gbrnole]

you need to bind those remaining keys through the sage interface much like you would bind them through girder if you were using that.