The Revolution's not HD, but is it ED?

[Antenox]

Pardon my n00bishness.

I know the Revolution won't be outputting at 720p or any of the HD resolutions, but it does output at 480p. Does that make it an ED machine?

[CallMeJean]

An EDTV is a TV that can accept a HD signal and will convert it to something like 480p.
The Revolution will definitely support 480p, so I guess you could make a case that its an ED machine, but I don't know if that's technically right...

[MSmith83]

Technically, anything from 480p/60 to 720p/30 is considered to be enhanced definition. If the Revolution maximizes within this range, then you could say that it is an ED console.

[Antenox]

I wonder how a 480p/60 transmission looks like on a full-fledged HDTV....

[MSmith83]

[QUOTE=Antenox]I wonder how a 480p/60 transmission looks like on a full-fledged HDTV....[/QUOTE]
480p games scaled by the display to an HD resolution generally looks poor in quality. Some don't mind it, but I need an external processor/scaler to find the picture acceptable.

[Stinkmeat]

Umm...isn't 480P the same as a progressive scan DVD player? I think DVDs look pretty good. Not HD but acceptable IMO.

[CallMeJean]

[QUOTE=Stinkmeat]Umm...isn't 480P the same as a progressive scan DVD player? I think DVDs look pretty good. Not HD but acceptable IMO.[/QUOTE]

yes

[FrankJ.Cone]

[QUOTE=Stinkmeat]Umm...isn't 480P the same as a progressive scan DVD player? I think DVDs look pretty good. Not HD but acceptable IMO.[/QUOTE]

It depends on the display. If you pop into the DVD forum you will see posts about the upscaling DVD players. Many people with fixed panel displays are not very satisfied with the way 480P looks on them and pay a premium for a player that will scale to 720P.

[ShawnPeters]

Yeah, for fixed-pixel displays it's all an issue with the quality of the scaler, really. I'm lucky in owning a CRT projector - 480p looks fantasic on my set due to the analog smoothing that takes place. You are right about Gamecube 480p resolution being almost the same as DVD resolution. I'm anxious to see what the Revolution will look like when it runs at 480p with the added rendering power. More pixels don't mean better art work and better rendering, and definitely not better framerate. I just hope they include good hardware shader support this time around. That's where the graphical magic takes place at the moment.

[William Mapstone]

As long as my projector gets 480P, not 480i, it upscales to 768P pretty well. I'm betting the Revolution will look pretty damn good on my projector, even though its not true HD.

[Gnafu the Great]

480i - SD
480p - ED
720p and 1080i - HD
1080p - not technically in the ATSC HD standard, as far as I know, but will eventually become the HD standard (I hope)

[TheMadMilkman]

[QUOTE=FrankJ.Cone]It depends on the display. If you pop into the DVD forum you will see posts about the upscaling DVD players. Many people with fixed panel displays are not very satisfied with the way 480P looks on them and pay a premium for a player that will scale to 720P.[/QUOTE]

But they're still scaling the image, it's just a question of which box has a better scaler, and whether there's a D/A conversion followed by another A/D conversion on the other side.

Nintendo does seem to be on to something here, though... by limiting resolution, which doesn't make a big difference except to a couple of enthusiasts, they should be able to push out the same kind of textures and framerates as the other two consoles and still be less expensive. I just don't really see any downside to what Nintendo is doing, at least from MY perspective.

[ShawnPeters]

[QUOTE=TheMadMilkman]But they're still scaling the image, it's just a question of which box has a better scaler, and whether there's a D/A conversion followed by another A/D conversion on the other side.

Nintendo does seem to be on to something here, though... by limiting resolution, which doesn't make a big difference except to a couple of enthusiasts, they should be able to push out the same kind of textures and framerates as the other two consoles and still be less expensive. I just don't really see any downside to what Nintendo is doing, at least from MY perspective.[/QUOTE]
I couldn't agree more. But, don't forget that there is a large portion of the market that doesn't go by what they see but, rather, by what they are told is good. So, from marketing standpoint, it could still be a problem when people go to Best Buy and the staff tells them that HD is standard now, and then they dismiss Nintendo's console altogether. I think Nintendo is still banking on the controller being the major distraction from the HD race, and it might very well be.

[Vlad_Dracule]

Well its kinda like comparing Monsters Inc. on DVD to Monsters Inc. in HD.

Obviously it will look better in HD.

That being said I do think nintendo will still put out some nice visuals. It better be actual 720x480p this time and not that stupid squished 4:3 crap.

[Gnafu the Great]

[QUOTE=Vlad_Dracule]Well its kinda like comparing Monsters Inc. on DVD to Monsters Inc. in HD.

Obviously it will look better in HD.

That being said I do think nintendo will still put out some nice visuals. It better be actual 720x480p this time and not that stupid squished 4:3 crap.[/QUOTE]

Or better, 854x480 ;).

[Vlad_Dracule]

Haha. After rereading my post I just realize I didnt even make the point I wanted to. In fact I think I'm losing my mind as I recall typing this before.......

Anyways my point was that the DVD version of Monsters Inc. still looks damn good.

And yes 854x480 is what I meant :p.

[Naylia]

plus, it'll let you hit your buddies with the remote....i mean isn't that what gaming is all about :)

[Staly_On]

I have stupid question. I am about to buy the Samsun HLR5078W. And I have a gamecube to use it with are you saying it won't look good on the tv?
I also heard that there may be a delay due to the tv upconverting the signal? I am new to all this and I don't want to drop 3k if its going to be a terrible experience.

[Naylia]

Something to do is check and see if your gamecube has the Digital A/V Out jack on the back...gamecubes manufactured before May 2004 should have one. If so you can order component cables for it from Nintendo directly...I also think some Hong Kong company has them. This will allow you to not only get the usual benefits of improved picture quality from component video but also a number of games are progressive scan 480p compatible which kicks in with the component cables :) Just ordered mine, unfortunately Nintendo is backordered a month.

If you look around online you can find out which games are widescreen, which are 480p, and which are both. There are quite a few games (i had a list of like 50 but all the games were at least a year or two old so I'm sure there are more now) out there that are widescreen and 480p compatible that can be had used for 10 or 12 bucks. I can't wait to get my cables :)

[Jason Kirkpatri]

I ordered my component cables (to Canada no less) two weeks before Christmas. My order confirmation was at least a two month back log.

I got them the week before Christmas.

Big difference....big.

[Staly_On]

It took two months before you got the component cables for the nintendo? Wow, I guess I need to order them now. I am in Pakistan preparing to set up my theater system for when I get back.

[CallMeJean]

Staly_On, read his post again. He ordered his cables 2 weeks before Christmas and Nintendo said that they were 2 months on backorder. However, he actually got his cables a week later.

[ksiddique]

[QUOTE=CallMeJean]An EDTV is a TV that can accept a HD signal and will convert it to something like 480p.
The Revolution will definitely support 480p, so I guess you could make a case that its an ED machine, but I don't know if that's technically right...[/QUOTE]

Here's a related question: Does anyone know if the Revolution will use the same GC component cable?

[MisterMe]

[QUOTE=ksiddique]Here's a related question: Does anyone know if the Revolution will use the same GC component cable?[/QUOTE]

No one knows . . . but I doubt it.

Nintendo developers have leaked that the Revolution will do digital audio, so my guess is they will use a breakout cable for audio and video.