Frustrated with horrible CRT sets in 2006

[proudx]

Man I looked at a ton of crt direct view sets tonight and must say quality control has hit the lowest of the low with these new tvs. piss poor geometry,poor service factory level defaults, lack of svm control, etc.

16:9 direct view observations.

Geometry was bad on every 16:9 tv I examined with only the sony line offering acceptable geometry but not perfect

samsung slimfit or should we rename it to the samsusng slimbow. nasty bowing and piss poor overall gemoetry

OrioShiba, now they are breaking my heart. It used to be that Toshiba produced a nice product that was the best bang for the buck, now after looking at the blooming contrast and horrible black levels on the 26,30,3485 Its obvios no engineer spent any time properly setting up the service menu defaults. even with the contrast super low and brightness highthere appears to be white crushing and black crushing. i am sure this can be fixed in the service menu as well as the geometry issues but it is obvious that Toshiba is not spending money on crt qa. I blame it on the outsourcing to orion. shame on you Toshiba.

the panasonic, and philips line also suffered from geometry issues with the philips line the worst offenders of all with almost zig zag verticle lines.


the only real winner tonight is Sony. I hate Sony but I have to give them credit where credit is due.
sony great looking tv but freaking big case and expensive! I wish sony would slim the case size down as well as the price of the tv. this size will not fit in my rom


I miss my Toshiba company that produced a calibrated image that could compete with the more expensive Sony.

4:3 tvs

bad geometry on every 4:3 tv I examined including Sony. vsm showed its ugly head on all 4:3 tvs I looked at with the sony having the best controls and tweaking for it.

I will review the sanyo 28" ws tvs at walmart later this week. anyone know how they compare, weakness, strengths?

some brand needs to step up to the plate and atleast try and compete with Sony by producing a tv with great picture, smaller profile, and smaller cost. If nobody does then I will have to look at buying the sony and removing the case from it and making a custom mold for it to fit it in my room.

[Q of BanditZ]

Buy Sony or Panasonic and you can't go wrong. Some of the JVC's are still pretty good as well, if you can find them.

The only thing in your way is petty biases against brand names. "I hate Sony" and so on.

That's rubbish. For all their many flaws, this is the one area where Sony is a sure bet.
If you really can't stand them, go Panasonic! Great TV's! Great price!

If you shop smart, you can get a good TV at a good price.

[proudx]

yeah but the sony simply will not fit in my bedroom. I want a good 26 to 30 ws crt that will fit in my bedroom. perhaps I can remove the shell from the sony and replace it with a new one, I wonder if anyone has ever done that. I know people remove tv shells all the time to get them to fit in mame cabinets.

[Q of BanditZ]

[QUOTE=proudx]yeah but the sony simply will not fit in my bedroom. I want a good 26 to 30 ws crt that will fit in my bedroom. perhaps I can remove the shell from the sony and replace it with a new one, I wonder if anyone has ever done that. I know people remove tv shells all the time to get them to fit in mame cabinets.[/QUOTE]

It's a little risky, but possible.

Otherwise, what about Panasonics? Excellent TV's at those sizes as well. Check the owners threads out and maybe you can get some more info on those.

Don't get frustrated! There's good stuff out there at a lot of different price levels! :)

[kny3twalker]

the JVCs would be my next pick if you do not like Sony

the new 30" from JVC has 2 HDMI ports and an ATSC tuner, just no cable card slot

the JVCs also do scaling to 1500i

[proudx]

do the jvcs and panasonics track close to 6500 out of the box? suprisingly the sony 30" did not exhibit any red push and appeared to be closer to 6500 than the other sets. one thing i can't stand is bad red push. the jvc tvs I saw today appeared to have red push and I believe the panasonics had it too somewhat

[letterstoher]

Better hurry for the Panasonic. There are only a few of them available for purchase left. Once it's gone, it's gone.

[kny3twalker]

Better hurry for the Panasonic. There are only a few of them available for purchase left. Once it's gone, it's gone.

huh? funny I called Panasonic CS and they said they have them available to be purchased

whats the problem again?

do the jvcs and panasonics track close to 6500 out of the box?

the JVCs have a 6500K mode, I am not sure about the pannies

[letterstoher]

How can Panasonic still be available when Circuit City no longer have them in stock? It's wierd. :confused:

[Jpup]

If you want a 4:3 TV, I highly recommend the Sony KV-32FS210. It's a wonderful TV. I think best buy has them on sale right now on their web site. I can't find anything to complain about at all and I have had it for over 2 years. It works just like the day it was new.

[Q of BanditZ]

[QUOTE=letterstoher]How can Panasonic still be available when Circuit City no longer have them in stock? It's wierd. :confused:[/QUOTE]

Two things you need to remember:

1.) After the holidays, you have to sometimes wait several weeks for the stores to restock. They usually go through hardcore inventory checks in January as they go through a major restock.


2.) Just because Circuit City doesn't carry something at all times doesn't mean the product doesn't exist or isn't readily available, in general.

[proudx]

well space is becoming more and more of an issue for me. I really think the Sony absolutely has the best image, color tracking, geometry without too much service menu tweaking. But the real stinker is the sheer size and weight of the guy. Will I notice the extra clean fine pitch presentation from 12ft away viewing distance and do I even need 1080i in a casual laying in the bed type enviroment. I do wanna have the clean color tracking the Sony provides that I am sure I will notice from 100ft away but in a smaller package like a 24" 4/3 or a 26 or 28" 16/9 size.

I already have a 42" RPTV CRT HDTV and a CRT FP 8" HDTV. This will be my 3rd HDTV if I do go with the Sony. Maybe for my non critical bedroom setup I should select a SDTV in the 24-28" range. I don't mind spending the extra money for a 16:9 size widescreen to future proof my purchase since as you know a lot of shows are gonna be 16:9 in the near future. The only thing is I don't think I need anything > 480p resolution considering the size and my viewing distance so a SDTV 16:9 wich doesn't exist would basically be ideal. So that leaves either spending extra for a 16:9 HDTV in the 26 or 28" size or just buying a 24" SDTV.

Now all I gotta do is find a CRT that has the Sony colors, ability to disable SVM in a much smaller case that can be mounted to the wall with a peerless type arm.

Guys don't get me wrong I absolutely think the Sony tv is a bargain right now considering how far ahead it is in terms of PQ to the other avl displays and if I wasn't laying in bed from 12ft away I'd buy it and work around the size issue.

[RandyWalters]

[QUOTE=kny3twalker]the JVCs would be my next pick if you do not like Sony

the new 30" from JVC has 2 HDMI ports and an ATSC tuner, just no cable card slot

the JVCs also do scaling to 1500i[/QUOTE]I'll also vote for the JVC. They have historically made great televisions but they suck at marketing their products so you never hear about em.

If i'm not mistaken, the new and prior 30" JVCs scaled everything to 1080i. Their 34" model was the one that scaled everything to 1500i, but not the 30 inchers.

[kny3twalker]

If i'm not mistaken, the new and prior 30" JVCs scaled everything to 1080i. Their 34" model was the one that scaled everything to 1500i, but not the 30 inchers.

you're right, my mistake, I did not know this was only available on the 34" model

Maybe for my non critical bedroom setup I should select a SDTV in the 24-28" range. I don't mind spending the extra money for a 16:9 size widescreen to future proof my purchase since as you know a lot of shows are gonna be 16:9 in the near future. The only thing is I don't think I need anything > 480p resolution considering the size and my viewing distance so a SDTV 16:9 wich doesn't exist would basically be ideal. So that leaves either spending extra for a 16:9 HDTV in the 26 or 28" size or just buying a 24" SDTV.

there are no ED or widescreen SD CRT TVs being produced currently, your only option would be a HD CRT

[proudx]

so I can either buy a 24 or 27" 4:3 or spend the extra on a hd set. I will have to consider the jvc's as I haven't seen them on display anywhere. Do they come in a smaller tv shell than the sony? I am going to be 14ft away from the set too bad. i saw phillips online outlet has a 480p 30" ws refurbished tv but after looking at the geometry on the phillips sets and ghosting around text there is no way in hell I would order that set.

I am seriously gonna look at the jvc widescreen models next as I haven't seen them. 24" sdtv sony sets, and the 24" sdtv samsung sets. Any known problems with the 28" sanyo widescreens at wal mart? the tv shell looks very small but I haven't had a chance to look at the color tracking or the geometry on these sets.

what is the recommended jvc model? i'd prefer black to go with the black wall mount if possible. also who has the best price on these. i can't hardly find any jvcs for sale on the internet.

[kny3twalker]

J and R has the JVC 30" and Sony KD30XS955 for the same price
it would be a hard decision between the two
but I think I would pick the Sony
they are 850 shipped

[proudx]

Sanyo 28" widescreen at walmart. Fellas this TV looked as good as the best TVs I have seen in my tv adventure quest. above average Geometry, nice focus, decent color tracking, nice small shell for the TV, 499$ with HD tuner price at wal mart.
BUT with that said it is too bad these sets have a reliability problem as noted in this forum. 500$ is not such a good deal if the tv breaks in the first 3 years. I am gonna try and find a place to look at the JVCS locally next week.

I really don't wanna spend much more than 500$ for a bedroom tv though.

[Q of BanditZ]

[QUOTE=proudx]Sanyo 28" widescreen at walmart. Fellas this TV looked as good as the best TVs I have seen in my tv adventure quest. above average Geometry, nice focus, decent color tracking, nice small shell for the TV, 499$ with HD tuner price at wal mart.
BUT with that said it is too bad these sets have a reliability problem as noted in this forum. 500$ is not such a good deal if the tv breaks in the first 3 years. I am gonna try and find a place to look at the JVCS locally next week.

I really don't wanna spend much more than 500$ for a bedroom tv though.[/QUOTE]

It's about as good as you're going to see at this price level and WalMart's return and exchange policies are about as generous as it gets.

Go for it! Sanyo has done very well at this price point with these HDTV's of theirs. :)

[williamtassone]

[QUOTE=proudx]Man I looked at a ton of crt direct view sets tonight and must say quality control has hit the lowest of the low with these new tvs. piss poor geometry,poor service factory level defaults, lack of svm control, etc.

.[/QUOTE]

I couldnt agree more but WTF do you expect when Jane Trailer Trash rocks up to Costco and wants "high def TV" and shrieks at the idea of paying $2000 plus.

Executives at Sony etc are businessmen and they have an obligation to their shareholders ; if they lovingly made their CRT tellies with A grade components and spent quality time on calibration it would double the cost and they'd be arse up in a week.

I too wish we could all go back to the good old days before Sony et al moved their manufacturing to south East Asia- but the world's gone mad and competition is so ultra competitive that everyone's cutting corners.

Before I bought my XBR910 my attitude was "I want the best and if I have to pay $5 to $10 k for it so be it".

When people saw how stunning the picture was they drooled, when I told them the price they pissed and moaned so I told em to go home and watch their pixelated piss-ant plasmas.

[Q of BanditZ]

[QUOTE=williamtassone]I couldnt agree more but WTF do you expect when Jane Trailer Trash rocks up to Costco and wants "high def TV" and shrieks at the idea of paying $2000 plus.[/quote]

LOL, that's practically sig worthy. You've really been on a roll around here lately! :D



Executives at Sony etc are businessmen and they have an obligation to their shareholders ; if they lovingly made their CRT tellies with A grade components and spent quality time on calibration it would double the cost and they'd be arse up in a week.

I too wish we could all go back to the good old days before Sony et al moved their manufacturing to south East Asia- but the world's gone mad and competition is so ultra competitive that everyone's cutting corners.

Before I bought my XBR910 my attitude was "I want the best and if I have to pay $5 to $10 k for it so be it".

When people saw how stunning the picture was they drooled, when I told them the price they pissed and moaned so I told em to go home and watch their pixelated piss-ant plasmas.


Perfectly said. I couldn't agree with you more.

[avhed]

I am suprised people here recommend the JVC? I have seen it in a few stores, and moved on in a instant.

[Porcupine2]

> Man I looked at a ton of crt direct view sets tonight and must say quality control has hit the lowest of the low with these new tvs. piss poor geometry,poor service factory level defaults, lack of svm control, etc.

I can't agree with you more proudx. I'm currently in TV dilemma land myself, having just gone through 4 ToshibaOrions.

> Geometry was bad on every 16:9 tv I examined with only the sony line offering acceptable geometry but not perfect

I essentially agree, with 1 exception. The Toshibas CAN have PERFECT geometry, or damn near to it. The one I have now (which is going back due to unacceptable convergence plus other defects) is almost perfect. FAR better than any Sony Wega I've seen. But the one I had previously had such horrible geometry it was not watchable. Unacceptable quality control. Service menu cannot correct the type of geometry problems I am referring to (other types it can, so I don't care about those).

> samsung slimfit or should we rename it to the samsusng slimbow. nasty bowing and piss poor overall gemoetry

Yes. No selectable SVM and piss poor geometry. Only idiots would care about making a slim TV when geometry is invariably sacraficed. If anything CRT HDTVs should be DEEPER, not slimmer.

> OrioShiba, now they are breaking my heart. It used to be that Toshiba produced a nice product

Yes me too. After going through 4 30HF85s I realize this is the best CRT HDTV on the market, IF it is set up correctly out of the factory and has no defects. But they won't be because the quality control is unacceptable. The Service Menu can only fix some problems, it can't fix enough. Many crucial things just have to be done right at the factory or the unit is a bust.

Contrast and black levels are easily set in the Service Menu. Contrast definitely has to be adjusted in the Service Menu on all units. I personally have not had issues with black levels but those are easily altered as well. Black Crushing is easily altered with the SUB CONT setting in the Service Menu, which you may or may not have to do depending on both your TV and what idiot at the Orion factory set it up.

Only some geometry issues can be fixed in the service menu, not all. Generally speaking anything related to vertical geometry can be fixed. Anything related to horizontal geometry (aspect ratio fattening, etc...basically things which affect the CNN ticker) is NOT fixable in the slightest via Service Menu.

The Panasonics are among the better but they are nowhere near good either, unlike some others here are saying. They have their own issues. Even the Sonys have issues. I would agree they are the clear winner these days (due to ToshibaOrion crapping out) but because the Sonys are so stupidly huge they are not always a possible option either.

I am shocked that SO MANY people seem to realize the Sonys are way too huge, yet Sony keeps doing this. What is wrong with them. Why can't they learn their lesson. Why is only ToshibaOrion making a compact profile HDTV? Get with the program, CRT makers out there!!!

> some brand needs to step up to the plate and atleast try and compete with Sony

I am frustrated as well. Many others are as well. I can't believe the current situation. Heads should roll somewhere.

[williamtassone]

[QUOTE=Porcupine2]> If anything CRT HDTVs should be DEEPER, not slimmer.

.[/QUOTE]

Yep and that's why the sony broadcast monitors weigh as much as a bull and have long cabinets. The closer the electron guns are to the screen the more difficult it is to maintain geometry and colour purity at the edges.

BUT

I think you guys have unfairly levelled the blame at the feet of Sony, Toshiba etc. It was the consumers who were stupid enough to wanna hang the TV on the wall.

It was the consumers who pissed and moan "its too big"
"it wont fit in my $2 cabinet" "don't you have a less bulky version"
"my wife doesn't like the look of that one" yadda , yadda yadda.

Then 4 or 5 years ago they brought home their First generation Plasma and triumphantly hoisted it on the wall , inviting their neighbours to revel in this technological marvel. The fact that the CRT TV they just ditched gave a better picture didn't matter. Now they have the pose factor.

It's not the manufacturers fault; they cater to herd mentality.

[Q of BanditZ]

[quote=cireaasirefan]
JVC makes the most reliable CRT tube HDTV. [/quote]

Says who?

It is number one rated by Consumer Reports

Oh. :rolleyes:



If anything, that "endorsement" would make me suspicious. I can't believe you continue to cite CR like they're the gospel truth on these sorts of things, Walt.

That doesn't mean anything. CR doesn't have much credibility these days...kind of like you. I guess it's a good match after all.

Again: You would do well to stop referring to them like they're the gospel truth on all things. They are not. They've been caught in errors so many times it's ridiculous...kind of like you!




JVC is a very solid brand, to be sure, but certainly not because Consumer Reports and/or Walt Chan/cireaasirefan say so.

There are better and more consistent brands out there, namely Panasonic and Sony. These two brands immediately offer more choice, not the least of which would be a 34 inch widescreen TV.



http://www.jvc.com/product.jsp?productId=PRD4208101&pathId=120

^^ These aren't even HDTVs.



http://www.jvc.com/product.jsp?productId=PRD4208100&pathId=78

These are the latest Direct View HDTV's they've bothered to put out. I'm amazed to see no current 34 inch widescreen offering. The last 34 inch WS HDTV they put out didn't even have a digital video input on it. At least these do.

I wonder if they're going to bother with an updated 34 inch WS tube with HDMI? That would be nice if they did.


The last 34 inch WS tube JVC put out was the JVC AV34WP84. It has DVI input and it pretty darned solid at its price point...if you can even find one, that is.

They need to offer an updated successor to this model ASAP.








[quote=porcupine]
Yes me too. [color=red]After going through 4 30HF85s [/color]I realize this is the best CRT HDTV on the market, IF it is set up correctly out of the factory and has no defects.[/quote]

Wow! You couldn't be more wrong if you tried! Are you joking, or just nuts?

You went through 4 of those POS and didn't get the idea?! Talk about self contradiction, just for starters!



[quote=porcupine] But they won't be because the quality control is unacceptable. [/quote]

Just for starters. How about cheap parts? Cheap labor? How about being a complete piece of crap all the way around?



[quote=porcupine] The Service Menu can only fix some problems, it can't fix enough.[/quote]

Ya can't make chicken salad out of chicken s**t.

[quote=porcupine] Many crucial things just have to be done right at the factory or the unit is a bust.
[/quote]

Like making a good TV? LOL, are you for real?


This has to be another Walt Chan alt.

Who else but Walt would really go through 4 Toshiba Tv's, or at least suggest the idea?

I don't think anyone would. I think you're putting us on. This is pure BS.

You must not have been exposed to very much if you really believe the Orion made Toshiba 85 is the best CRT on the market. How can you say that right on the heels of admitting you've gone through FOUR OF THEM?

That's self contradiction if ever there was!


Anyone can go in a store and see it on the shelf and compare it to the other TV's around there and see what a POS it is, even vs. the Toshiba 84 series. A blind man couldn't miss it.



Even Walt wouldn't normally say that. At least he'd warn you against an Orion product. Of course, that depends on which alt. he's using. You never know.

If he's letterstoher, suddenly he's a "program director" out of Kentucky vs. being the early 20's American Idol wannabe out of California that we all know him to be. Supposedly. Who knows if even that's true?

That's called being a pathological liar, folks. You just can't know.



I hope Walt isn't deluded to believe that these Orion Toshibas are the best on the market. Or anyone else, for that matter.

I hope no one is. If you're really that stupid, then you get what you deserve, quite frankly.

4 Toshiba 85's... Give me a break. :rolleyes: You went through 4 of the SAME TV and you didn't get a clue? That's ridiculous, if true.

I think you made it up, whoever you are. Even I refuse to believe that anyone is really THAT stupid.


Hell, even I'll give Walt more credit upfront for that. I don't think even HE is that big of a Toshiba fanboy, although you never know...

[Porcupine2]

I'm no fanboy of any product. The old analog tube TV I'm currently using until I manage to find a tube HDTV to my liking is a JVC. I currently own zero Toshiba products.

I'm no idiot, but the way you are talking makes you sound like one, Q of Banditz. I would appreciate it if you tried to speak more objectively on matters.

Going through 4 of the same Toshibas allowed me to see what was good and bad about this unit. Before you denounce the 30HF84/85 as being crappy, you should look at a 30HF83. The design of this TV is excellent. IF everything is set right at the factory this set comes the closest to perfect geometry of any TV out there. How do I know? Like I said, one of my 4 units has near perfect geometry. But one also had the worst I've ever seen. Experience, observation, and impartiality is very useful, not loud-mouthed raving like you are doing.

Why am I returning these TVs? Because every one had a different sort of quality control related problem. 3 of them had foreign dirt objects inside the protective glass screen blotting out some of the image, which in itself is reason for return. 2 had busted pixels on the shadow mask, etc. But if everything goes right, which does seem to have been the case for the 30HF83, then this is possibly the best CRT HDTV out there.

All of my 4 Toshibas performed very differently (dirt in different spots, etc) so I recognized that quality control was the issue and not the TV design itself. That is why I was willing to go through so many and hope to luck out, but unfortunately that did not happen.

[SurfingMatt27]

[QUOTE=proudx]Man I looked at a ton of crt direct view sets tonight and must say quality control has hit the lowest of the low with these new tvs. piss poor geometry,poor service factory level defaults, lack of svm control, etc.

16:9 direct view observations.

Geometry was bad on every 16:9 tv I examined with only the sony line offering acceptable geometry but not perfect

samsung slimfit or should we rename it to the samsusng slimbow. nasty bowing and piss poor overall gemoetry

OrioShiba, now they are breaking my heart. It used to be that Toshiba produced a nice product that was the best bang for the buck, now after looking at the blooming contrast and horrible black levels on the 26,30,3485 Its obvios no engineer spent any time properly setting up the service menu defaults. even with the contrast super low and brightness highthere appears to be white crushing and black crushing. i am sure this can be fixed in the service menu as well as the geometry issues but it is obvious that Toshiba is not spending money on crt qa. I blame it on the outsourcing to orion. shame on you Toshiba.

the panasonic, and philips line also suffered from geometry issues with the philips line the worst offenders of all with almost zig zag verticle lines.


the only real winner tonight is Sony. I hate Sony but I have to give them credit where credit is due.
sony great looking tv but freaking big case and expensive! I wish sony would slim the case size down as well as the price of the tv. this size will not fit in my rom


I miss my Toshiba company that produced a calibrated image that could compete with the more expensive Sony.

4:3 tvs

bad geometry on every 4:3 tv I examined including Sony. vsm showed its ugly head on all 4:3 tvs I looked at with the sony having the best controls and tweaking for it.

I will review the sanyo 28" ws tvs at walmart later this week. anyone know how they compare, weakness, strengths?

some brand needs to step up to the plate and atleast try and compete with Sony by producing a tv with great picture, smaller profile, and smaller cost. If nobody does then I will have to look at buying the sony and removing the case from it and making a custom mold for it to fit it in my room.[/QUOTE]

Think "Sony" "Mr. Anderson" :cool:

Some of my colleagues think i'm waisting my time with you "Mr. Anderson", so i'll be blunt and straight with you... You will not find another better looking CRT than a Sony. Although Panasonic is a close second i highly recommend them as well.

But don't put Sony off just yet, Sure they are the heaviest of their other CRT competitiors but their PQ more than makes up for them;)

The Matrix (Sony) has you now "Mr. Anderson". Buuaa HAHAHAHAHA :D

[Ratman]

Hand me a Kleenex..

Walter, you created this vendetta with YOUR obsessive comments in regard to Orion.

[SurfingMatt27]

[QUOTE=proudx]do the jvcs and panasonics track close to 6500 out of the box? suprisingly the sony 30" did not exhibit any red push and appeared to be closer to 6500 than the other sets. one thing i can't stand is bad red push. the jvc tvs I saw today appeared to have red push and I believe the panasonics had it too somewhat[/QUOTE]

No tv out of the box does!!!

The people at the factory are too lazy to calibrate the color temp to D65K so they just fiddle a bit untill they get a respectable picture that says" Good enough" for the consumer. :rolleyes:

I wish every tv was D65K out of the box but aint going to happen unfortunately.

[Q of BanditZ]

[quote=porcupine]

I'm no fanboy of any product. The old analog tube TV I'm currently using until I manage to find a tube HDTV to my liking is a JVC. I currently own zero Toshiba products.[/quote]

Then what was this?:Yes me too. After going through 4 30HF85s I realize this is the best CRT HDTV on the market, IF it is set up correctly out of the factory and has no defects.




[quote=porcupine]
I'm no idiot, but the way you are talking makes you sound like one, Q of Banditz. I would appreciate it if you tried to speak more objectively on matters.[/quote]

As objectively as this? Yes me too. After going through 4 30HF85s I realize this is the best CRT HDTV on the market, IF it is set up correctly out of the factory and has no defects.

That's real objective. :rolleyes:

C'mon.



[quote=porcupine]

Going through 4 of the same Toshibas allowed me to see what was good and bad about this unit. Before you denounce the 30HF84/85 as being crappy, you should look at a 30HF83. The design of this TV is excellent. IF everything is set right at the factory this set comes the closest to perfect geometry of any TV out there. How do I know? Like I said, one of my 4 units has near perfect geometry. But one also had the worst I've ever seen. Experience, observation, and impartiality is very useful, not loud-mouthed raving like you are doing.[/quote]

You have no idea of my experiences. You're just putting words in my mouth and hitting the spin button. You certainly can't directly refute anything I wrote.

I suspect that you may just be another alt. handle for Walt, but who cares if you are or not.


Everyone knows that the 84's on back (83, etc.) were good Tv's because they were truly made by Toshiba. But you were talking about the 85 in your last post, which everyone knows is an outsourced, inferior product, made by Orion, under the Toshiba label.

Raving, my @$$. I stated fact and I stand by everything I wrote. The facts just aren't to your liking, so out come the cheap insults.

Seen that trick a million times.



[quote=porcupine]
Why am I returning these TVs? Because every one had a different sort of quality control related problem. 3 of them had foreign dirt objects inside the protective glass screen blotting out some of the image, which in itself is reason for return. 2 had busted pixels on the shadow mask, etc. But if everything goes right, which does seem to have been the case for the 30HF83, then this is possibly the best CRT HDTV out there.[/quote]

Maybe this is all due to a typo. NOW you are talking about the 83.

In your very last post you said: Yes me too. After going through 4 30HF85s I realize this is the best CRT HDTV on the market, IF it is set up correctly out of the factory and has no defects.

THAT statement is bunk. The 85 is a POS. The 84 and 83's were good TV's, in contrast. That's a fact.




[quote=porcupine]
All of my 4 Toshibas performed very differently (dirt in different spots, etc) so I recognized that quality control was the issue and not the TV design itself. That is why I was willing to go through so many and hope to luck out, but unfortunately that did not happen. [/quote]

What about an ISF calibration? That would have guranteed ended most of your problems on at least one or two go arounds with that set.


You would never have had to go through this song and dance if you'd bothered to get your TV professionally calibrated. You could be enjoying your so called "Best TV" right now, in pure bliss vs. sticking to the stone age analog TV you're stuck on right now.








[quote=cireaasirefan]Porcupine2, you need to watch out with this Q of BanditZ guy. His attitude and helpfulness are not the best out there, despite his many posts. I had many problems with him before, and I don't know where to start. He now only criticizes on my posts. He has nothing postive to say anymore. Better stick to the highdefforum.com as a reference tool instead. I think the people over there are better. They are a little more open minded and are more patient. These people can tolerate this kind of crap, unlike here. I don't give a shitt anymore what the people say about me here. I had to lie multiple times just to get some peace here (for example, cracking the TV case, and it was so so hard and very frustrating. It actually never happened, but no one ever believes me, so I lied saying that I did it just to get some peace here). Lately, I found out that AVS Forum has becoming less helpful than High Def Forum in the direct view CRT forum. Whatever you say about me, guys, I am ignoring it. It starts right now.

Despite what Q of BanditZ says, I do believe you. Everybody says that I am losing credibility here. No matter what everyone says, I will always deny the claim because of the people here in the first place, especially squonk at the worst (he made me have to open multiple accounts. I did it just to get some peace here). Today, sqounk is still blaming me that I still have alternate accounts. What's worst, everybody believes in squonk words, including Q of BanditZ. But squonk has never been helpful here in the first place and is nothing but a stalker. He polluted many of the threads with his obessive comments about me. Now that makes me wonder about the people here.[/quote]

Do you really want me to blow you to hell again with more links with specific post numbers, just to expose you once again for the crazy, pathological liar that you are?

It's all in your mind, Walt. I can back myself up from here to the moon. Can you?

You're even admitting to some of it again right here, so what more can be said?



The shortcut to this is: Everyone can simply look up the names: Walt Chan, waltchan 2, cireaasirefan, koratinkeworld, and letterstoher just for starters.

Take 60 seconds or so to look at some recent post and thread histories of those names, and believe you me, that BS will speak for itself to anyone, everytime.

No one needs to take my word for any of it. It's all there for everyone to see.


What's amazing is, yet again: You don't even bother to refute or deny anything I've written because it's TRUE, and you KNOW I can back it all up from here to the moon UNLIKE the lame and limp false accusations you just tried to lob my way. IT IS ALL TRUE AND YOU KNOW IT.

[SurfingMatt27]

Ya can't make chicken salad out of chicken s**t.

I love this quote!! :D

[SurfingMatt27]

Wow!!

This thread sure went to hell fast!!

Alan if you can hear this please close this thread before it get's brutal!

[Dark Rain]

Why is anyone in here surprised to see this happening? Quality control has been slipping for years on CRTs. I've seen the same thing happen with PC CRT monitors. You can't even buy a good high-end PC CRT anymore because LCDs are where the money is at these days. The same goes for CRT TVs. The only good HD CRT TVs out there right now is the Sony 34XBR960 and XS955 sets. Everything else is second-rate garbage. And it will continue to be this way until the final death of the tube.

[Q of BanditZ]

[quote=cireaasirefan]
Same thing here again. Q of BanditZ only knows how to criticize people and probably does it for a living. No one has ever criticized or said harsh things to porcupine2 before. How dare you. [/quote]

How dare I? ooooh....I'm scared. :rolleyes:

You need to stop taking the Internet so seriously, Walt.

Go check out the highdefforum.com yourself under the user porcupine. He has a well over 100 posts. Because you are the only one criticizing or are against his posts, now this explains who you really are.

Who am I, really, exactly? This ought to be good!

What are you talking about? Asking people direct questions about what they mean is an attack? Again, it's all in your mind.

He's literally saying two different things at the same time and I'm calling him on it.

I don't care who he is or how many forums he's on. It doesn't mean squat to me.

I think my questions are perfectly valid and there's no personal attacks anywhere to be seen, except in your mind.

I stand by everything I've written 100 percent.

[Q of BanditZ]

[QUOTE=Dark Rain]Why is anyone in here surprised to see this happening? Quality control has been slipping for years on CRTs. I've seen the same thing happen with PC CRT monitors. You can't even buy a good high-end PC CRT anymore because LCDs are where the money is at these days. The same goes for CRT TVs. The only good HD CRT TVs out there right now is the Sony 34XBR960 and XS955 sets. Everything else is second-rate garbage. And it will continue to be this way until the final death of the tube.[/QUOTE]


Sad, but all true.

[kny3twalker]

Porcupine2, you need to watch out with this Q of BanditZ guy. His attitude and helpfulness are not the best out there, despite his many posts. I had many problems with him before, and I don't know where to start. He now only criticizes on my posts. He has nothing postive to say anymore. Better stick to the highdefforum.com as a reference tool instead. I think the people over there are better. They are a little more open minded and are more patient. These people can tolerate this kind of crap, unlike here. I don't give a shitt anymore what the people say about me here. I had to lie multiple times just to get some peace here (for example, cracking the TV case, and it was so so hard and very frustrating. It actually never happened, but no one ever believes me, so I lied saying that I did it just to get some peace here). Lately, I found out that AVS Forum has becoming less helpful than High Def Forum in the direct view CRT forum. Whatever you say about me, guys, I am ignoring it. It starts right now.

Despite what Q of BanditZ says, I do believe you. Everybody says that I am losing credibility here. No matter what everyone says, I will always deny the claim because of the people here in the first place, especially squonk at the worst (he made me have to open multiple accounts. I did it just to get some peace here). Today, sqounk is still blaming me that I still have alternate accounts. What's worst, everybody believes in squonk words, including Q of BanditZ. But squonk has never been helpful here in the first place and is nothing but a stalker. He polluted many of the threads with his obessive comments about me. Now that makes me wonder about the people here.
cireaasirefan is online now

dude walter your credibility is zero and I personally would not be surprised if you are the Porcupine2 guy

Walter does Q of Banditz or myself need to start linking old posts again just show how bad you were

and creating several new accounts is complete BS, whether squonk gave you a hard time or not
and furthermore thats not the only reason you did it, you did it to manipulate the members here and just generally be crazy!!
after all you posted replies to your other log ins/accounts

if anyone needs to be watched out for here
its you!

[SurfingMatt27]

[QUOTE=Q of BanditZ]Sad, but all true.[/QUOTE]


Yup, glad i got a great PC CRT from Dell back in 2000, Gotta have a CRT for PORN, because LCD just won't cut it. :D ;) :cool:

[Dark Rain]

[QUOTE=cireaasirefan]Hey Dark Rain, glad to see you back. It's been a long long time already since you last wrote your post here at summer.[/QUOTE]

Yeah. I know. I've been busy in the RPTV forum.

It is truly sad to see you guys arguing over this. I guess it's a clear indication that there's really no hope left in CRTs. The manufacturers have given up on them and what you're seeing is the end result of that. About the only solution to the problem is to get your CRT TV ISF calibrated to fix the nagging problems with geometry, convergence, etc. It may cost a bit of money, but it's better than messing around with constant exchanges hoping that the next one will be perfect. That ain't going to happen.

It really serves no purpose to continue to bitch about a problem that's not ever going to go away. Quality control is out the door at this point. It's a dead end road from here on out.

[Q of BanditZ]

[QUOTE=Dark Rain]Yeah. I know. I've been busy in the RPTV forum.

It is truly sad to see you guys arguing over this. I guess it's a clear indication that there's really no hope left in CRTs. The manufacturers have given up on them and what you're seeing is the end result of that. About the only solution to the problem is to get your CRT TV ISF calibrated to fix the nagging problems with geometry, convergence, etc. It may cost a bit of money, but it's better than messing around with constant exchanges hoping that the next one will be perfect. That ain't going to happen.

It really serves no purpose to continue to bitch about a problem that's not ever going to go away. Quality control is out the door at this point. It's a dead end road from here on out.[/QUOTE]

I'm glad I got my 960 when I did! I know that's the last really great CRT tube we're ever going to see. I'm going to keep it, use it, and love it until it literally dies in my face, and I hope that's many years from now.

[Porcupine2]

> About the only solution to the problem is to get your CRT TV ISF calibrated to fix the nagging problems with geometry, convergence, etc. It may cost a bit of money, but it's better than messing around with constant exchanges hoping that the next one will be perfect. That ain't going to happen.

> It really serves no purpose to continue to bitch about a problem that's not ever going to go away. Quality control is out the door at this point. It's a dead end road from here on out.

I see. I already have started some looking into local ISF calibrators, cost, what they can do, etc. I may go down this path myself but I still need to learn more about it.

Actually maybe you can answer some of my questions, Dark Rain. My understanding is that ISF calibrators can mess around with the service menu and do some other more serious adjustments, but they can't "fix" certain problems that may just require the TV to be trashed and made right the first time.

Will an ISF calibrator remove my glass screen and clean the inside? Although in the case of my latest Toshiba, the glass screen itself is malformed and it is NOT cleanable. A new screen simply needs to be ordered. I doubt an ISF calibrator would help. My previous Toshiba with the horrible geometry I suspect simply needs the entire tube taken apart to be fixed. The Service Menu doesn't come close to helping. If a pixel on the shadow mask is broken, an ISF calibrator can't do anything about it since the mask simply needs to be thrown away.

I have not been dumping off my units hoping for a "perfect one." At this point my approach is to get one that I think can at least be fixed by an ISF calibrator and at that point I may hire one. The only thing I'm sure they can really do for me that I probably can't do myself is color convergence.

[Q of BanditZ]

[quote=porcupine]

I see. I already have started some looking into local ISF calibrators, cost, what they can do, etc. I may go down this path myself but I still need to learn more about it.[/quote]

It'll be the best couple of hundred bucks thereabouts you ever spent, guaranteed.

http://www.imagingscience.com/isf-trained.cfm

That site will also explain to you exactly what's done, how it's done, etc.



Actually maybe you can answer some of my questions, Dark Rain. My understanding is that ISF calibrators can mess around with the service menu and do some other more serious adjustments, but they can't "fix" certain problems that may just require the TV to be trashed and made right the first time.

Barring an outright physical problem, there's really nothing a good ISF man can't do.



Will an ISF calibrator remove my glass screen and clean the inside?

Some will. If you select someone, make sure you ask them these kinds of questions ahead of time.

Although in the case of my latest Toshiba, the glass screen itself is malformed and it is NOT cleanable. A new screen simply needs to be ordered. I doubt an ISF calibrator would help.

Very likely.

My previous Toshiba with the horrible geometry I suspect simply needs the entire tube taken apart to be fixed.

Nope! All they usually have to do is take the back of the tube off and physically adjust the magnets that are back there. It's meticulous and takes time, but it eliminates any geometry problems short of the outright design and limits of the CRT tube itself.

The Service Menu doesn't come close to helping. If a pixel on the shadow mask is broken, an ISF calibrator can't do anything about it since the mask simply needs to be thrown away.

I have not been dumping off my units hoping for a "perfect one." At this point my approach is to get one that I think can at least be fixed by an ISF calibrator and at that point I may hire one. The only thing I'm sure they can really do for me that I probably can't do myself is color convergence.

Here's an idea of what a good ISF calibrator can do for you: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=561596



http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=139

Spend some time there as well.


Now tell me: Was it a typo? Were you really referring to the Toshiba 83 this whole time and not the Toshiba 85 in this thread?

[Dark Rain]

[QUOTE=Porcupine2]
Will an ISF calibrator remove my glass screen and clean the inside? Although in the case of my latest Toshiba, the glass screen itself is malformed and it is NOT cleanable. A new screen simply needs to be ordered. I doubt an ISF calibrator would help. My previous Toshiba with the horrible geometry I suspect simply needs the entire tube taken apart to be fixed. The Service Menu doesn't come close to helping. If a pixel on the shadow mask is broken, an ISF calibrator can't do anything about it since the mask simply needs to be thrown away.

I have not been dumping off my units hoping for a "perfect one." At this point my approach is to get one that I think can at least be fixed by an ISF calibrator and at that point I may hire one. The only thing I'm sure they can really do for me that I probably can't do myself is color convergence.[/QUOTE]

Maybe think about a different brand? May I suggest one?

Toshiba looks like they hit rock bottom with the HF85. I'd avoid it like I do with Wal-Mart. ;)

[Q of BanditZ]

[QUOTE=Dark Rain]Maybe think about a different brand? May I suggest one?

Toshiba looks like they hit rock bottom with the HF85. I'd avoid it like I do with Wal-Mart. ;)[/QUOTE]


Amen!

Hell, if you can still find a Toshiba 84 series? That's worlds better right off the bat.

I'll never forget walking in to ABC Warehouse two months ago and seeing the 84 literally side by side with the 85. The 85's PQ realy looked terrible outright compared to the 84 next to it and most of the other TV's anywhere within my eyesight.

The 85 was one of the worst TV's in the entire store, literally.

Go Sony or Panasonic if you can't find a Toshiba 84.

I agree with Dark Rain 100 percent.

[quote=Dark Rain]The only good HD CRT TVs out there right now is the Sony 34XBR960 and XS955 sets. Everything else is second-rate garbage. And it will continue to be this way until the final death of the tube.[/quote]

The Sony XS and XBR series rule CRT tubes outright. These are where it's at.

[justsc]

Walter, cireaasirefan, and Porcupine2

are ONE and the SAME.

Nice try Walter, but you cannot escape detection. My major in college was Admin of Justice, and I have studied handwriting styles up one side and down the other.

Would you like me to expose ALL of your AKA's?

[Q of BanditZ]

[QUOTE=justsc]Walter, cireaasirefan, and Porcupine2

are ONE and the SAME.

Nice try Walter, but you cannot escape detection. My major in college was Admin of Justice, and I have studied handwriting styles up one side and down the other.

Would you like me to expose ALL of your AKA's?[/QUOTE]


Please do! And make sure Mike Lang and Alan Gouger are informed as well.

[SurfingMatt27]

Seems we are snowed in here in Massachusetts,looking foward to a long night of movie watching and videogames:D

As for ISF calibration go for it if you can afford it!

Otr just simply consider another brand like sony or panasonic, can't go wrong with either one!!

[SurfingMatt27]

[QUOTE=Q of BanditZ]Please do! And make sure Mike Lang and Alan Gouger are informed as well.[/QUOTE]

Yup, i believe justice is in order!!!!

Nice work Steve! pretty clever stuff ;)

[sirfergy]

Consumer Reports just did a big spread on HDTVs. The only good CRT was Sony. Everyone else was signifigantly lower rated.

[Q of BanditZ]

[quote=cireassirefan]
Your assumption, however, is indeed very wrong. Go read all of Porcupine's reviews at:

http://www.highdefforum.com/search.php?searchid=311925

Your assumption, however, is indeed very wrong, as well as all the pathetic AVS users here. Go read all of Porcupine's reviews at:


One very good example: "Is there a Futureshop in California?" NO, NO, NO.[/quote]

Dead link. And again, who cares? It could be you, for all we know. What does it matter?

As for truth: It's about as truthful as you being letterstoher and being a "progran director" out of Kentucky.

NO, NO, NO.

[SurfingMatt27]

The moderators have you now "Mr. Anderson" ;)

[Artwood]

If i were a billionaire I would manufacture 38-inch Direct-view CRT sets and the name of the brand would be Waltchan! I would give Waltchan a house right next to the factory with video surveillance so he could always gurantee where they came from!

[justsc]

[QUOTE=sirfergy]Consumer Reports just did a big spread on HDTVs. The only good CRT was Sony. Everyone else was signifigantly lower rated.[/QUOTE]
Yep.

I just purchased the latest CR and the Toshiba brand barely scored half of the numbers of the Sony's which occupied all of the top rung.

In a sidebar CR even discussed the recent downfall in Toshiba's ratings over the last 12 months.

[Q of BanditZ]

[quote=cireassirefan]
GO AHEAD!!! BEWARE, THEY MAY BAN YOU FOR ACCUSING THE WRONG PERSON.[/quote]

I'll try not to lose sleep over it. Again, it all speaks for itself. They're well aware of your track record.

Need I remind you of this?



http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7096275#post7096275

Post 182:
[QUOTE=Mike Lang]Why do you think there are more ID's being created?

We've banned dozens of names and blocked several IP's.

I can't drive to his house and take away his PC. As you find more of them, just let me know without replying to him.[/QUOTE]

I feel pretty confident about where I'm at vs. where you're at.

Revision:

[quote=cireaasirefan]
GO AHEAD!!! BEWARE, THEY MAY BAN YOU FOR ACCUSING AN INNOCENT PERSON.[/quote]

LOL!

[justsc]

[QUOTE=cireaasirefan]Your assumption, however, is indeed very wrong, as well as to all of the pathetic AVS users here. Go read all of Porcupine's reviews at:

http://www.highdefforum.com/search.php?searchid=311925

One very good example: "Is there a Futureshop in California?" NO, NO, NO, NO.[/QUOTE]
"Me thinks you protest too much..."

Gotta take care of yourself right Walter?

"No one has ever criticized or said harsh things to porcupine2 before. How dare you."

[SurfingMatt27]

And the snow just keeps falling here!

I swear i'll be buried in this snow soon.

[justsc]

[QUOTE=SurfingMatt27]And the snow just keeps falling here!

I swear i'll be buried in this snow soon.[/QUOTE]
This blizzard has a "fishy smell" to it...

[SurfingMatt27]

[QUOTE=justsc]This blizzard has a "fishy smell" to it...[/QUOTE]


Sure does steve, Looks like we are having a blizzard in this thread oursleves, AKA Mr. Walter chan.

Walter are you serious? Do you really think a MOD will believe you?

[SurfingMatt27]

They already know who i am,So i don't see a problem... Go ahead.. tell them who i am!!

[Q of BanditZ]

[quote=cireassirefan]
Don't make me reveal who you really are. Stay out of this. This has nothing got to do with you.[/quote]

They probably already know and don't care. He's got a clean record for the most part, compared to the likes of you.

You don't have enough credibility to "rat him out" and not have it rightfully backfire on you anyways.


[quote=cireassirefan]Now I deserve an apology.[/quote]

What the hell for? LOL! You had no problems masquerading around here as letterstoher, the program director from Kentucky, so why can't you be this guy as well?

We've seen that there's pretty much no limits to what you'll do.

[Q of BanditZ]

[quote=cireassirefan]
For accusing me that I am under "porcupine2."[/quote]

I think it's quite possible. I'll certainly take justsc's word over yours any day of the week, without even a second thought.

How's that program director job doing in Kentucky, letterstoher?

Don't you get it?

[justsc]

Everyone,

I have a proposal. It seems to me that most all of the threads that Walter posts to get rediculous and fully off-topic and become useless to most everyone, especially the OP. Even if it's not Walter's fault, just the fact that he's there draws in off-topic posts and the result is bad.

I intend to stop all responses to or references to Walter and all of his aliases. How about if we all do this and just see how it goes?

[SurfingMatt27]

Unlike you i'm not hiding behind multiple user accounts, i'm an honest straight foward guy and i am a very respected member on these boards.

Are you?

You are really treading on thin ice lately, and you have a history of multiple accounts,lieing and being deceitfull to other members.I think an action has to be taken and it has to end now!!

I'm tired of all the lies and you dodging posts using multiple accounts and spreading lies in general.

Justice will be served!!, as my friend Steve would put it!!

[SurfingMatt27]

[QUOTE=justsc]Everyone,

I have a proposal. It seems to me that most all of the threads that Walter posts to get rediculous and fully off-topic and become useless to most everyone, especially the OP. Even if it's not Walter's fault, just the fact that he's there draws in off-topic posts and the result is bad.

I intend to stop all responses to or references to Walter and all of his aliases. How about if we all do this and just see how it goes?[/QUOTE]

That's not a bad idea,i'll try it and see what happens in the next few days.

[SurfingMatt27]

Feel free to AIM me with AOL instant messenger my name is the same as on these forums,if anybody wants to chat with me and Mr. Walter chan.

[kny3twalker]

damn Walter had to ruin another perfectly good Cathoray Tube thread

[williamtassone]

Elsewhere in this forum we lamented the trend in the 1990's of TV manufacturers to move their manufacturing to 3rd world Asian countries.

Remember the good old days 10 - 15 years ago when CRT's were made in countries in Japan and Germany. They were virtually indestructable.

But we weren't happy with the slight curve to the trinitron CRT . It had to be flat. So sony made it flat because you guys wanted something new.

But with the flat screen trend came the epidemic of colour purity in the corners as the electrons no longer could follow a radial arc. Then everyone at agoraquest.com flooded the forum with complaints of colour impurities.

But at least we had a perfectly flat screen now.

As a testament to the manufacturing prowess of the Japanese (who have an obsession with perfection ) the Japanese XBR910/ 960 (australia's models are made in Japan) have perfect convergence out of the box (you read right) and almost perfect geometry. I pulled the back of mine off and could find NOT ONE of the accursed "landing magnets" that infest the XBR's made in dilapidated piss-poor economies.

But what happened ?

You guys in the 1990's kept haggling with the dealers for a 40 % discount. Kept squeezing their margins and they in turn whined to the manufacturers.

I remember a time when TOSHIBA was a mark of quality. It's CRT's were made in Japan and they were of impeccable quality. Now I shun them like the plague.

All because consumers kept haggling for lower prices and wanted a TV they could hang on a wall.

For those CRT detractors quick to chirp in that we had to move beyond CRT because of its limitations in size , I don't buy it . It's the same lamentable situation with CRT projectors . Here we had nirvana with picture size to boot but people complained that "it's too heavy" . 'It doesn't look modern"

So now instead of the incomparable Sony G90 we have ultra-light DLP projectors or better still the misconvergence king Ruby. But at least you won't strain your muscles doing barbell curls with a dlp projector. And they look sexy too. So much more cheaper than those pre-historic CRT projectors.

[Mathesar]

Reading through this thread was depressing ..but also made me realise my current PC monitor, a 24" Sony FW900 CRT (made in Japan) , is probably better than any current PC monitor available, hopefully it lasts through the current 'drought' of quality monitors.

Ive also been looking around for a Sony 34XBR960 but having no luck in town, no one carries them anymore..looks like I'll have to buy it online which I really didn't want to do. (in case something is wrong with it / bad geometry etc.)

Decisions Decisions...

[kny3twalker]

try Crutchfield
they have a 100% guarantee

30-day Money-Back Guarantee
with Free Return Shipping

30-Day Money-Back Guarantee
You can return any product within 30 days of receiving it. Just make sure it's in like-new condition, pack it all (remote, manual, etc.) securely in the original packaging, and call us for a Return Authorization number.

We'll gladly exchange it or give you a refund for the full amount of the merchandise (not including original shipping) — whichever you prefer.

FREE Return Shipping
Your satisfaction is so important to us, we'll even pay if you decide to send a product back! Return an item for an exchange or refund (your choice) during your evaluation period, and we'll cover the cost of return shipping.*

*Items delivered via Large Item Special Shipping are excluded from this offer, but there is no charge for returning damaged or defective products regardless of size.


although it says large items, AFAIK there have been many instances where they will pay the return shipping
they are very customer oriented

[williamtassone]

[QUOTE=cireaasirefan]Hmmm, you know what, williamtassone, maybe I should go find a reputable Australian online retailer, order a Made in Japan Sony KD-34XBR960, and have it shipped overseas to the United States. Do you know any Australian electronic retailer that permits shipping overseas? Thanks for your help.[/QUOTE]


Don't bother.

Here down under Sony pulled the plug on these magnificent sets as mums and dads suffering mid life crises scramble to get a flat panel. Hopefully it will give their banal lives more meaning now. " and look honey it hangs on the wall"

The Australian Sony Super Fine Pitch tv's sold like hot cakes BUT unfortunately many were returned because of green colour impurites (which KenTech in this forum showed could be fixed by adjusting the Landing of electron guns in service modes)

Unscrupulous TV repairmen were clocking up enormous hours "fixing " these sets with fridge magnets when it could have been solved tweaking the service mode for 90 seconds. Amazingly NOT ONE so called TV tecnician knew about landing adjustment (or perhaps they pretended they didn't)

Anyway many hundreds of Japanese made Sony XBR910's were returned because of easily correctable landing anomalies. The amazing thing is , and to this today it brings me to tears, that when I spoke to Sony's engineering department in Sydney they were unaware of landing adjustments in service mode. Pristine sets returned for nothing.

Finally with rocketing sales of plasma and LCD Sony saw the writing on the wall and instructed Japan that they were turning their sales targets to the more lucrative mum's and dad's market. The birth of LCD/plasma was never caused by videophiles although many have jumped in to change the diapers.

I remember vivdly when the announcement came that there would be no more Sony super fine pitch TV's for sale. There were arms and legs hanging out the windows of Sony stores in a mad scramble to get one (largely the professional gaming community + videophiles) Tempers rose. Forums were littered with posts of "where can I find..."

They are gone never to return.

Sony Japan would be your best bet as they cater to the ultra rich and still carry the best . Besides, theirs would be a northern hemispher tube perfect for North America.

Also if you want a Japanese made XBR910/ 960 Sony Dubai sells Super fine Pitch TV's with northern hemisphere tubes. You can ask them where they are made online.

Hopefully Made In Japan

[kny3twalker]

if you buy an Australian XBR960, the tuners will not work in the US, furthermore I doubt you could send the TV many sources besides from a PC, which has the ability to send multiple refresh rates
then there maybe jitter from conversion on every source

PAL is 50i and NTSC is 60i
also DVB HD will not work in the US, we have ATSC

this type of foolish waste of money is why people get irriated with you

that you would spend thousands more to get a Japanesse assembled product
inferring that the others assembled elsewhere are junk

[williamtassone]

and you guys get HDMI whilst the australian models only got widebandwidth component,

Now Im forced to upgrade to SED:)

[Porcupine2]

[QUOTE=Q of BanditZ]
Nope! All they usually have to do is take the back of the tube off and physically adjust the magnets that are back there. It's meticulous and takes time, but it eliminates any geometry problems short of the outright design and limits of the CRT tube itself.
[/quote]

That's great. I knew that's how convergence was adjusted on the Toshibas but I did not know many geometry problems could be fixed that way as well. A couple of hundred bucks is indeed what I am willing to spend to get my TV looking better.

I've read through some of those links you gave, thanks. I will read some more later. Another thing that I have some small (not a big deal) reservations about is that ISF calibration seems to also be heavily concerned with getting the color balance of the TV just right. I don't know if I really care about all that. I think I can adjust the colors just fine to suit my preference in the Service Menu. If it's not 6500k or whatever, I don't care. I always set my TVs or computer monitors to "Cool" and think it looks best that way. 6500k looks too red to me. On my Dell 20" Trinitron, it shows "6500k" as having a red shift in the settings, while the neutral setting is the equivalent of Cool, so I'm a bit confused on that. Gamma Correction aka Subtractive Contrast I always adjust myself in the Service Menu depending on the lighting conditions I'm currently watching at.

I hate all red things and I like all blue things. Blue blood runs in my arteries. :)

The units I have owned were all 85's. However I only meant to say that the 83's are probably good TVs. And since the 85's have the same design as the 83's (except with terrible quality control) my logic is that an 85 *could* be a good TV as well (if calibrated properly and all that, and not physically defective which they are very likely to be). I've been trying to find and communicate online with owners of 83's and am also going by what they say. Through the four 85's I went through, I saw all sorts of defects, but I could also tell that if I took all four of my TVs and fused only their best/working aspects together, I'd end up with a GREAT TV (outperforming even an average Sony unit).

[Porcupine2]

[QUOTE=Dark Rain]Maybe think about a different brand? May I suggest one?

Toshiba looks like they hit rock bottom with the HF85. I'd avoid it like I do with Wal-Mart. ;)[/QUOTE]

I'd love to hear some different brand suggestions!! I have been asking around for that for a long time but have not heard many informed answers. The answer I've mostly been getting is "all CRTs suck these days too bad for you" and from what I've been seeing in stores I'm inclined to agree.

I have been looking very carefully at the Panasonics and the Sonys but have also looked carefully at any TVs I have found. I have even looked into LCDs and Plasmas but I really do like CRTs best.

I agree the Toshiba is rock-bottom these days. The only thing is that I still think their CRTs have a good design. If the Toshiba 30HF83 was a good unit and the 30HF85 has the same design, a good TV is still hidden underneath (if you can get one that passes quality control). That's my opinion, anyway.

Anyway, here's my main problem. I have only 32" of length space for my TV. That is why I keep getting Toshibas. :( I can stretch that to 33.5" maybe. The only other CRT HDTV that seems to fit that size limit is the Panasonic CT26WX15 which I have been looking at very carefully. But that unit seems to have its problems as well. From looking at them for *hours* in the stores, I feel that opinions on both Sony and Panasonic are overrated.

I also would REALLY prefer to get a TV with bottom speakers. I don't even think TVs should have speakers. I can't stand to see the sight of them wasting my valuable room space since I will never use them.

But all that being said I know there are not many good choices out there so I'm open to any suggestions, but please keep in mind that size is a constraining factor for me so the Sonys are a problem. :(

[Porcupine2]

I know that a lot of people think that CRTs are being phased out. I agree that is the current trend but I'm not so sure it will stay that way forever. The Playstation 3 is about to come out and all its games will render at 1080 lines, so I think demand for CRT HDTVs will skyrocket at that point. The next-gen DVD media is also slated to come out at about the same time, and it also supports 1080 resolution. So it makes sense to me that companies will do what they can to re-popularize CRTs in 2007, if not in 2006. Hopefully that means an increase in quality, rather than a decrease in price going along with a decrease in quality. -_-;

[squonk]

[QUOTE=cireaasirefan] Everybody says that I am losing credibility here. No matter what everyone says, I will always deny the claim because of the people here in the first place, especially squonk at the worst (he made me have to open multiple accounts. I did it just to get some peace here). Today, sqounk is still blaming me that I still have alternate accounts. What's worst, everybody believes in squonk words, including Q of BanditZ. But squonk has never been helpful here in the first place and is nothing but a stalker. He polluted many of the threads with his obessive comments about me. Now that makes me wonder about the people here. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]


Back to ragging on me again waltchan, and I didn't even say anything here?!

Its nice to see that they let you out of your room to use the computer walt--is that part of your therapy program? I am curious though--how do you type with that straightjacket on?

[squonk]

[QUOTE=cireaasirefan]I have been working tirelessly tirelessly tirelessly to restore order in this forum since November after the purchase of the Toshiba 34HF84.[/QUOTE]
The one you cracked the casing on and tried to return? You noble warrior you. You have done nothing but created disorder and chaos with your lies, shenanigans, multiple alias', contradictions, circus and magic acts. Now, go back and take your medicine, or Nurse Ratchet is going to get upset.

[squonk]

[QUOTE=cireaasirefan]Hey Porcupine2, if you can at least convince the people here that I am not really you, I would definitely appreciate it. There has been spread of misformation and blaming on the wrong person lately in this thread. Thanks a lot.[/QUOTE]
I wonder why? Do you think it has something to with pathological lying and multiple alias'?

[kny3twalker]

uh yeah it does, if it were not for your multiple account issues
then no one would think Porcupine2 is you

in fact I still wonder if we are having the wool pulled over our eyes

[Sparco]

I agree that Sony has the best geometry but I hate the picture. The colors and flesh tones are awful. The same goes for Panasonics.

[squonk]

[QUOTE=cireaasirefan] Whatever you say about me, guys, I am ignoring it. It starts right now.[/QUOTE]

:confused: ;)


Walt, you look good in hospital gown white, it really becomes you.


Looks like walt is up to his old self-deletion tricks again, in a hasty attempt to try to destroy the evidence.

[squonk]

[QUOTE=SurfingMatt27]Sure does steve, Looks like we are having a blizzard in this thread oursleves, AKA Mr. Walter chan.

Walter are you serious? Do you really think a MOD will believe you?[/QUOTE]


waltchan deletes own blizzard.....story at 11.

[williamtassone]

[QUOTE=Porcupine2]Anyway, here's my main problem. I have only 32" of length space for my TV. That is why I keep getting Toshibas. :([/QUOTE]

I am continually perplexed by posts such as these.

This IS the premiere home theatre forum in the English speaking world.

Why all this banter about "it doesn't match my curtains" "it won't fit in my $40 plywood cabinet"

Shouldn't you guys make PICTURE QUALITY your penultimate goal?

Get rid of your cabinet grab an XBR960 and porn it up

[williamtassone]

[QUOTE=Sparco]I agree that Sony has the best geometry but I hate the picture. The colors and flesh tones are awful. The same goes for Panasonics.[/QUOTE]

Well then go into the service mode and you can correct the anomalies to give you perfect colour and fleshtone. Audrey Hepburn looks so real on my XBR910 you could just kiss her:)

[Porcupine2]

Yeah service mode can usually fix the colors to suit almost anyone's personal taste I think, if the TV is decent. I've never once complained about colors, or anything I found I can fix in the service menu. I only complain when something is beyond my control.

The more I think about it, what is frustrating to me is that better quality control would probably only make the TV cost 50 more bucks or so. These HDTVs are filled with so many expensive parts and computer components, it is a waste if in the end the protective glass is all dirty inside and the TV gets returned, or someone couldn't take even 3 minutes to do color convergence right.

william, I understand your sentiments that picture quality should be foremost. In my case this is a bedroom TV, not a living room TV, and I don't want some gigantic thing wasting my precious space. It turns out I've strangely got a convenient hole/depression in my wall that exactly fits the shape of a Toshiba 30" lol, with an inch or two to spare but no more. :) I'm putting my TV into that hole. My room is made of stone not wood, so there is no way to alter the shape of things. :) I have a funny house/room. It's sort of hard to explain. My speakers complicate things too, as I've got 6 of em all over the place (each pair costing the same or more than this HDTV). I'm an audio fanatic above a video fanatic and placement of my speakers comes foremost and the TV just gets shoved in the resultant spot. Well what I'm trying to say is that I've wracked my brains for hours to find a more optimal way to put everything in my normal-sized bedroom and this is the only way. ^_^;

[Porcupine2]

Bleh. Well, I can move the TV out of that hole and I'm definitely willing to do so. I just can't stand the sight of huge side speakers on that Sony, when I know they are simply wasting my room's space for something that is completely worthless. TVs should not have speakers. I'm also somewhat against widescreen to begin with (I definitely want a widescreen HDTV of course, but if I had been the one to choose the new standard everyone follows I would have chose 4:3) and seeing a fat long widescreen TV made even fatter with ultra gigantic ear speakers makes me retch. :confused:

BTW depth and height I do not care about. If my TV were 100" high reaching to the ceiling that'd be fine that space is free. If my TV were 4 feet deep that'd be great cause it'd have better geometry so at least I got something for it (plus most of that 4 feet could go into that hole in my stone wall anyway). If the TV encroaches into the room so what, good hifi speakers are supposed to be placed as far from walls as possible anyway so it'd still work out (not necessarily what I am doing now with all of my speakers but I'm happy to do so). But length is not free on a widescreen TV. My main speakers are still far away from the TV regardless but I dunno...I can put toys or something on the ground in the in-between space. :) My bedroom is not gigantic I need all the space I can scrounge up. :)

[Q of BanditZ]

[QUOTE=squonk]:confused: ;)


Walt, you look good in hospital gown white, it really becomes you.


Looks like walt is up to his old self-deletion tricks again, in a hasty attempt to try to destroy the evidence.[/QUOTE]


Well, everyone here has long since learned that yout hit that quote button as soon as you see something from him, because it can magically disappear at the drop of a hat.

But now there will be a new contigency in place. See kny3walker's sig. And you can best better believe that will be updated on a regular basis, as need be, until this BS stops once and for all.

Maybe a bunch of us should add that link to our sigs...



[quote=porcupine]
Yes me too. After going through 4 30HF85s I realize this is the best CRT HDTV on the market, IF it is set up correctly out of the factory and has no defects.[/quote]

Just for the record: This IS an outrageous statement and a complete falsehood on several levels. This is exactly why I suspect you're just another handle for Walt.

[Porcupine2]

Q, for a while I thought you were going to start behaving respectably and having a normal conversation. Your previous post to me was very helpful, honest, and thoughtful. So I responded in kind. Didn't you see my previous post?

Why now did you suddenly revert to quoting something from way back in this thread and just saying it is false? You kept asking me to clarify my views on the 83 vs 85 issue, and I did. Why do you now ignore my latest explanation of my views on the 83 vs 85 and why I consider the 85 to *potentially* be a good set? You are making me lose all respect for you, once again.

[Alan Gouger]

Closed. Same people again.