View Full Version : Unboxing new Pioneer 5060hd tonight, oooohhhh those blacks!!! My initial impressions
Today my new 5060hd came from BeyondPlasma.com, again thanks Mike and Bill!
(btw, they are an AVSFORUM sponsor so I felt I would be taken care of in the event of any problems)
They had them in stock last week and beat every single online price engine I could find. The Pioneers are becoming like the Panasonics, in and out of stock as well with delays as there are simply so few to none of some of the Panasonic models
It shipped out the day I ordered it, Friday and it came today, not too bad. The delivery service calls you about 3 days in advance to set a date with you and the delivery people call an hour before dropoff to coordinate.
An LG 3410 hi def tuner is feeding the panels the grammies right now. OOOOOOOHHH the blacks. :eek: :D
They are so much better than the Pioneer 503cmx 3rd gen (3year old model) at first I thought my new plasma had gone dark. I turned off dynamic mode and adjusted the settings to those D-Nice uses for his 5060hd and volia! MMMMM nice picture. The same material I have watched for years on my 3rd gen Pio suddenly was really, truly black.
You can see clearer detail and more of it like that was simply not there before, the facial details alone, wrinkles, hairs, pimples, color, you name it. The old Pioneer showed most of these, but not to this level at all.
It will be a blast using my HD PVR to replay some of my archived hi def recordings. I got flat out tired of waiting 2 months for a Panny commerical 50 inch, especially since the latest word is supply is running out as the new models come out.
I researched this purchase for months and months before the Panny and the Pio came out as the 2 far and away clear front runners. I am a tough customer, I am thorough and I am detailed. This set comes with pretty much everything.
In any case I digress, the set arrived at noon today from Electrograph, in perfect condition. The color accuracy on this thing and the scaling are excellent. Period.
The contrast really adds depth and brings the images to life, its brighter than my 3rd gen Pio by a fair amount. But let me tell, these blacks are very,very good. They may not quite be Panny blacks or they may be so close you could only tell the difference side by side but anyone holding off, shouldn't. It comes with speakers, a stand and high def tuner, which the Panny does not.
It will be great fun playing with this and replaying my video archives.
Tommorrow up: the Pioneer Elite 59avi dvd player feeding 480i into the panel. I will post more impressions, but so far so good.
I am not using the tuner that came with the set just yet, I need to set it up. My LG 3410 had been set up already to my old plasma so it was easy to connect it right up to an HDMI port.
One quick tip for anyone who buys this set, for unknown reasons it ships with the HDMI ports turned off. You need to go into the setup menu and enable them, there are 2 HDMI ports.
This set looks like a million bucks, shiny piano black case trim and nice case. I think the stand is a bit cheesy and will dispose of that at first chance and replace it with one from the Elite series.
The best info I could get is supply on the Panny' is drying up as the new models come on line next month. I wanted to wait for 1080p but not 6 months to a year before the prices drop.
For those of you who have followed my posts on here over the years, you know I am a big sci fi buff, and own an enormous dvd library of material and have more on my HD PVR archived going back years and... SPACE FINALLY LOOKS BLACK!!!! :eek:
For those with really keen eyes, the slight green push that has plagued earlier generation plasmas seems to be finally gone.
I have one other very clear observation, for Hi def broadcasts this panel rocks. Probably due to the better scaler. I spent a considerable amount of time looking at high def feeds on the Panny commerical Panny and the Pio , both the latest 50 inch models at a high end home audio theater shop. The Pioneer really was smoking hot at displaying high def feeds. The Panny was good too, but the images, especially anything with motion was better on the Pioneer. I see why the Pioneer brand ties itself so tightly to sports branding, like the World Cup Soccer event and the release of their 1080p set right before that event.
When you think about this its very interesting, considering the threads on here about some of last year's Panasonic's lossof half of 720p on the display through some failure of mfg design. The jury is still out on the latest Panny models, though the crux of this 720p loss resolves around whether Panny uses a different scaler w/o the problem.
I am watching Star Trek Enterprise, the last season still archived on my LG 3410's hard drive and again, let me say, these blacks are: black, black, black !
Space is finally black, I just might be a little late for work tommorrow morning ;)
*As a funny footnote, 2 months ago I bought the Panasonic stand, its still sitting my hallway in the box unopened, and need to rid of it if anyone knows the best place to sell it.
kidziti
02-09-06, 12:03 AM
Sounds like I won't regret trading up to the 50" Elite from my Dell w5001c?
[QUOTE=kidziti]Sounds like I won't regret trading up to the 50" Elite from my Dell w5001c?[/QUOTE]
God no, I am told the Elites have more fine tuning controls and they use the better glass samples than the 5060hd. Other posts have said they are so similar you get 95% of the Elite in the 5060hd. I am told the price difference is about 5 benajmins, but with the recent big price drop on the 5060hd I am not sure what the difference is currently.
The scalar in these panels blows away the Panasonics, in that area I do know the Pioneer is way ahead currently, the large majority of opinion holds in the posts I have read.
One quick note I like the way this thing stores the custom settings you make for each input, my old one did that.
dukmahsik
02-09-06, 09:58 AM
congrats ZZ, post some pics when you get a chance!
R Harkness
02-09-06, 10:05 AM
[QUOTE=ZZtop]
An LG 3410 hi def tuner is feeding the panels the grammies right now. OOOOOOOHHH the blacks. :eek: :D
They are so much better than the Pioneer 503cmx 3rd gen (3year old model) at first I thought my new plasma had gone dark. ....The same material I have watched for years on my 3rd gen Pio suddenly was really, truly black.
....
The contrast really adds depth and brings the images to life, ... SPACE FINALLY LOOKS BLACK!!!! :eek:
[/QUOTE]
Yep. That's why for years, some of us have been Panny fans for just those reasons. It's taken quite a while for other brands to start catching up in black levels, but once you live with them it's hard to do without. I've been enjoying those black levels for almost 4 years now. :)
It's great that the Pioneer is working out so well for you. Now you get good black levels and the other things Pioneer does so well. As I'd said before, I don't see how you could go wrong with such an amazing plasma.
[QUOTE=R Harkness]Yep. That's why for years, some of us have been Panny fans for just those reasons. It's taken quite a while for other brands to start catching up in black levels, but once you live with them it's hard to do without. I've been enjoying those black levels for almost 4 years now. :)
It's great that the Pioneer is working out so well for you. Now you get good black levels and the other things Pioneer does so well. As I'd said before, I don't see how you could go wrong with such an amazing plasma.[/QUOTE]
My intial desire, for over 2 months was the Panasonic no doubt, but alas, it was not to be had.
However, I have to tell you I think this worked out better. The way this panel displays HDTV is superb. As far as the black levels, I was really truly apprehensive, that was my #1 complaint about the 3rd gen Pio 503cmx panel I had, also a 50 incher. Now that is still a very fine panel and also does extremely well with HDTV, but this new 5060 does it better and does it with excellent blacks. It is interesting the blacks weren't better 3 years ago, as the 503 is a fine panel in many ways, and I did read the 4th and 5th Pioneers were not quite there as far as black levels, I think they are now with the 6th gen.
Congrats on your purchase. Enjoy your new toy :D.
Badgerst
02-09-06, 01:03 PM
Can you enlighten me on what the top resolution on the 5060 is? I was at bb yeserday and all the 50" plasma's showed 1366x?, while the 5061 sign said "1268x762". I assume this just wrong? The 5061/61 will run the 1366? resolutions correct?
Woodrow
02-09-06, 01:10 PM
resolution for the pio 5060 = 1280 x 768
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/plasma/detail/page/0,,2076_287252631_274927463_tab=B,00.html?compName=PNA_PlasmaProductDetailComponent
Badgerst
02-09-06, 01:15 PM
Thanks- seems strange it doesnt output at 1366x768.
finally- in your link- does the 5060/61 have vga input? I did not see it on first glance. I am considering hooking my 360 up via vga rather than component.
thanks
congrats on the new set.
let me play devils advocate here for a sec... IF the pannys were readily available would you have still gotten the pio?????
Which D-Nice settings did you use - Was it the ones on page 68?
there seem to be about 10 different ones on the Pio thread. :)
Woodrow
02-09-06, 01:30 PM
[QUOTE=Badgerst]
finally- in your link- does the 5060/61 have vga input? I did not see it on first glance. I am considering hooking my 360 up via vga rather than component.
thanks[/QUOTE]
VGA and D-Sub are the same thing
Hope this helps
[QUOTE=tolax]Which D-Nice settings did you use - Was it the ones on page 68?
there seem to be about 10 different ones on the Pio thread. :)[/QUOTE]
Always use the most recently posted settings ;)
[QUOTE=petp13]congrats on the new set.
let me play devils advocate here for a sec... IF the pannys were readily available would you have still gotten the pio?????[/QUOTE]
Yes, I would have, but now that I have the Pioneer, I see too much about it the Panasonic does not have. The media box is nice, lets me run the cables nice and clean to the box as opposed to a rat's nest of them on the plasma itself.
I had been having some second thoughts, what with some of the Panasonics having this 720p defect that has recently been discovered, and the case being so plain looking. That 720p defect is a very serious one. The Pio's case is shiny Piano black, it looks like a million bucks.
But the Pioneer came with 2 HDMI inputs, tuner, speakers, and stand. I probably won't use the speakers, and may not use the tuner, but some people will for sure.
The big issue for me was better blacks, the absolute best blacks are on the latest Panasonics though the contrast rating on the Pioneer is better so "effective blacks" might be a more accurate term. So assuming the consumer is starting from scracth, they would need to buy after buying the Panasonic 50 inch commerical panel:
1. HDMI blade or
2. DVI blades
3. Tuner
4. Speakers if they don't have a current audio setup to tie into , or don't want to use it
5. Plasma Stand mount
(the table stand support or wall mount if you opt for that,not the table furniture it sits on for those who might get confused)
The pioneer has the better scaler obviously as well. Some of this I have already posted so I will try not to repeat myself too many times here.
In the end, its a great market for the plasma manufacturers right now, and the consumer has two very nice panels to choose from. As has been posted I don't think you can go wrong with either panel, either the basic stripped down panel Panasonic has or loaded Pioneer panel. Since Pioneer did a huge price drop on their panel's a few weeks ago though, I do not see that much price difference between Panasonic and Pio anymore.
Several members have posted, to their horror, a few vendors that have 50 in commercial Panny stock have actually jacked up their prices by 500$ or more, and when questioned, reply simply: "Demand"! I have seen the Panasonic 50 in commerical version in stock now and then a certain few specifc vendors I won't name, but at 1000$ plus premium over the vendors that of the AVSFORUM sponsors. That's one hefty chunk of pure cash profit the vendor taking out of your wallet. :confused:
Add up the cost of the 2 blades, stand, tuner and I think you get to the Pio cost or exceed it fairly quick.
The path that led me to the Pioneer was bumpy and way too long, but I finally have a panel!
As a funny footnote, 2 months ago I bought the Panasonic stand, its still sitting my hallway in the box unopened, and need to rid of it if anyone knows the best place to sell it.
jstorerj
02-09-06, 03:18 PM
nice thread... i've been waiting for a 50" 8UK for almost a month now... looks like it could be at least another month... I may jump ship too. tell me something... what color is the back of this panel? i ask because I have a black articulating mount on order and wouldn't want to put that on a silver bezel... it looks like this is probably black, but one never knows...
Viventis
02-09-06, 04:09 PM
Mr. Top (or may I call you ZZ?):
Congratulations on your new 5060, mine arrives next week. Have you checked for dead pixels? If so, how did you go about it? I was toying with the idea of hooking up my laptop and displaying a series of solid colored pictures that fill the screen.
[QUOTE=jstorerj]nice thread... i've been waiting for a 50" 8UK for almost a month now... looks like it could be at least another month... I may jump ship too. tell me something... what color is the back of this panel? i ask because I have a black articulating mount on order and wouldn't want to put that on a silver bezel... it looks like this is probably black, but one never knows...[/QUOTE]
I only saw it last night briefly in the dark after I set it up, but its kind of a beige/white or weak silver as I recall.
JOtteman
02-09-06, 04:23 PM
I bought the Pioneer Pro-430HD Elite last week. It absolutely blows me away. My 2 year old 42" Hitachi, which I always thought had a good picture is not even in the same state, never mind ballpark. I also have a 53" elite Pro-510 PJ, a 34xbr800, and a sony 23" lcd. None come close. The vibrancy of the colors and the level of detail is just amazing.
Jay
CSI looked pretty good, though it was a particularly gory episode tonight. Time to start testing with the 59avi and 480i out. :D fun fun!
mmmm, for my first dvd folks, what say the Revenge of the Sith at 480i to let the panel scale. :D Excellent transfer to break in a virgin panel.
Another satisfied customer with the Pioneer...very nice. I love mine and am amazed every night I watch it.
hardwired
02-10-06, 12:03 AM
Looks like I'll be picking up my 50" Pioneer tomorrow and then ripping the Panasonic off the wall.
Anything special we should be doing to prevent burn-in on a new panel?
lipcrkr
02-10-06, 12:18 AM
To all you happy Pioneer owners....any image retention issues? Does Pioneer have any preventive features like white scroll etc? Just trying to get a feel on this compared to the NEC.
[QUOTE=lipcrkr]To all you happy Pioneer owners....any image retention issues? Does Pioneer have any preventive features like white scroll etc? Just trying to get a feel on this compared to the NEC.[/QUOTE]
I was told the NEC actually has a different mechanism for dealing with image retention and that has caused confusion among consumers.
All you Pioneer owners: I notice the Pio spec sheet reads 3:3 pulldown (as opposed to 3:2, or is it 2:3?). Anyway, I read months ago that many of the Pio owners were turning off their 3:3 pulldown, because it actually made the PQ worse.
Any comments on the 3:3 pulldown from you owners of the newest gen Pios?
[QUOTE=yobob]All you Pioneer owners: I notice the Pio spec sheet reads 3:3 pulldown (as opposed to 3:2, or is it 2:3?). Anyway, I read months ago that many of the Pio owners were turning off their 3:3 pulldown, because it actually made the PQ worse.
Any comments on the 3:3 pulldown from you owners of the newest gen Pios?[/QUOTE]
Prior to the 6G Pioneers, 3:3 pulldown did not work correctly on any signal besides 480i. Now, it's different story. I keep mine on 3:3 all the time and have never seen a smoother filmed picture.
MaliciousBraham
02-10-06, 12:22 PM
[QUOTE=yobob]All you Pioneer owners: I notice the Pio spec sheet reads 3:3 pulldown (as opposed to 3:2, or is it 2:3?). Anyway, I read months ago that many of the Pio owners were turning off their 3:3 pulldown, because it actually made the PQ worse.
Any comments on the 3:3 pulldown from you owners of the newest gen Pios?[/QUOTE]
It depends on the source material. I personally leave PureCinema (which is the designation for the 3:3 pulldown) set to standard on normal HD channels, which allows the panel to autodetect which type of pulldown it should use.
Off for SD cable. (the "advanced" setting forces 3:3 all the time)
I have not yet run into the situation where I wanted to force it. A lot of this setting isnt that it looks better or worse, it's that some people perceive it as "different" from what they are used to, so some think that means it's worse. After you get used to it however, I think it provides a more theater-like experience on film material.
I just think of it as another option to adjust the picture to be the best it can be (i.e. my personal preference, not some standard "the best" that everyone would consider best). Sometimes I prefer it's results, sometimes I like it turned off.
D-nice is correct about the bug-fix with the 6G panels as well.
[QUOTE=MaliciousBraham]It depends on the source material. I personally leave PureCinema (which is the designation for the 3:3 pulldown) set to standard on normal HD channels, which allows the panel to autodetect which type of pulldown it should use.
Off for SD cable. (the "advanced" setting forces 3:3 all the time)
I have not yet run into the situation where I wanted to force it. A lot of this setting isnt that it looks better or worse, it's that some people perceive it as "different" from what they are used to, so some think that means it's worse. After you get used to it however, I think it provides a more theater-like experience on film material.
I just think of it as another option to adjust the picture to be the best it can be (i.e. my personal preference, not some standard "the best" that everyone would consider best). Sometimes I prefer it's results, sometimes I like it turned off.
D-nice is correct about the bug-fix with the 6G panels as well.[/QUOTE]
Yes it does look different. It's very similar to how different a computer screen looks when going from a refresh rate of 60Hz to 85Hz.....different indeed.
Okay, so different is "different," not necessarily bad. Wuz just curious. Thx!
Jake NYC
02-10-06, 02:59 PM
[QUOTE=lipcrkr]To all you happy Pioneer owners....any image retention issues? Does Pioneer have any preventive features like white scroll etc? Just trying to get a feel on this compared to the NEC.[/QUOTE]
I don't believe the Pioneer has any specific image retention prevention features. I've had my 5060 for about 4 months now. I couldn't be happier with the set, but I did have an image retention scare. For the first 6 weeks or so, I watched non-hd 4:3 programming on HD channels (local news, etc.) in 4:3 mode, unstretched, with black bars on the sides. I then noticed on full white screen shots, like my DVD player's intro screen, that the sides where the black bars had been were lighter than the rest of the screen. The panel was wearing unevenly. After that, I started using stretch modes on all 4:3 materials. After several weeks, the feint outline of the bars had lessened significantly, and is now completely gone.
So, for me, the only compromise with the plasma technology is that 4:3 material must be altered somehow (zoom or stretch) in order to avoid uneven wear. I've read that grey bars on the sides (4:3 materials on SD channels) also cause this phenomenon, though probably to a lesser extent than the black bars.
dukmahsik
02-10-06, 03:02 PM
whew i'd be scared too
MtBikerE
02-10-06, 03:30 PM
Gratz on the new set :D
I've been trying to decide on what set to get myself. I've spent way too many hours deliberating and researching...but thats half the fun i think :D
Right now I'm between the 4360 pioneer and the Sony 40xbr lcd. I've seen the elite version & it was a stunning picture. I just saw the 4360 at BB next to the xbr. I was able to adjust the xbr, but not the 4360. I thought the xbr looked crisper and a little more detailed & the black levels were a little better/detailed.
The 50" elite I saw looked awsome compared to the 4360 & xbr. Perhaps it is the added resolution & set up properly. Too bad I don't have room for the 50 and the 43 is pushing the limits as it is. I've been trying to justify the cost of the elite but I just can't at the moment.
Actually I have a question, how is the glare on the Pioneer?
After sitting in the family room playing with the 4 yr old I notice the glare on the crt during the day is really bad.
[QUOTE=MtBikerE]Gratz on the new set :D
I've been trying to decide on what set to get myself. I've spent way too many hours deliberating and researching...but thats half the fun i think :D
Right now I'm between the 4360 pioneer and the Sony 40xbr lcd. I've seen the elite version & it was a stunning picture. I just saw the 4360 at BB next to the xbr. I was able to adjust the xbr, but not the 4360. I thought the xbr looked crisper and a little more detailed & the black levels were a little better/detailed.
The 50" elite I saw looked awsome compared to the 4360 & xbr. Perhaps it is the added resolution & set up properly. Too bad I don't have room for the 50 and the 43 is pushing the limits as it is. I've been trying to justify the cost of the elite but I just can't at the moment.
Actually I have a question, how is the glare on the Pioneer?
After sitting in the family room playing with the 4 yr old I notice the glare on the crt during the day is really bad.[/QUOTE]
I find the glare factor to be very low, the smooth Piano black trim makes the blacks and colors and whites seem better but at times gives a tiny reflection off in the room. However any decently smooth bezel does this and the bezel makes this set look like a million bucks, I would never change that, the Panasonic looks very plain in that regard.
Now if the context of the question is in reference to a CRT, you are going to make a big jump for the better by going with any plasma glare-wise in most cases, depending on the light size and angles to the CRT.
Jim Hef
02-10-06, 04:43 PM
Check the several posts by member Westa that couldn't use a plasma in his family room due to glare considerations. If your present TV is washed out during the day due to too much glass in the room, you may want to consider Westa's route, and purchase an LCD display, or mount the plasma high and tilt it down.
MaliciousBraham
02-10-06, 05:14 PM
Yeah, I wont sugar coat the glare issue either. Its no worse than a normal CRT, but its not much better either. Of course, I'm one of those people that thinks tv's shouldnt have to eliminate glare. I think the users should put them where there is no glare :D
No flames necessary, I understand some people just dont have that option. Its just my opinion and I know its just an opinion.
westa6969
02-10-06, 05:34 PM
I'm back. I'm not going to flame anyone - the Pioneer is a beautiful set and I always favored it actually but I became a sheep and followed the overwhelming support for the Panny PX500U.
Now - I went from viewing an LCD FP (zero glare/reflection) for months and then an SXRD 60" (very little) and so when I plugged in this Panny I was shocked during daylight hours and then reflections and I had alot more issues than that with the Panny - horrible dirty whites, and no immersive impact whatsoever - the SXRD blew it away in that area with HD. It's more than reflections the sun washes out the panel with a southern exposure.
Perhaps the Pio could significantly improve the impact - watch Van Helsing in HD and tell me what it does compared to a 60" SXRD. I'm not going to prejudge it since every Pioneer I've seen looks terrific with colors and details that add pop to the PQ the Panny couldn't do for me - I'm not saying Panny owners are wrong - it just didn't do anything for me. If I were to go with a Pio it would be a 61" since I want that immersiveness the SXRD size provided.
As to placement of my TV? The wife took over the decorating and is the General here - I live in a luxury condo with high arched windows and I like the view and nearly every room has tall windows even my basement. Had I gone from a CRT to the plasma I may not have thought anything of it but when you transition from LCD FP it's an amazing difference.
I'm happy for ZZTOP and others finding success and satisfaction and my only point in redundant posting is to bring it to the attention of new members to consider that factor and not to hinder their decision - no one warned me.
All we need is to get the 61" updated to the same tech as the 5060 or else make the Elite available for sale via the Web (so we can afford it). I don't think the 61 uses the same tech as the 5060/61 does it? <$7 for a quality 61" seems fair as they used to be well over $10K or $20K for the Elite at one point.
Enjoy your Pioneers - I'm enjoying the feedback nice to read good news for a change. :D
zinfandel
02-10-06, 06:46 PM
My 5060 arrived today. Not yet unboxed. It will wait for tomorrow for that.
But. my comment has to do with availability and price. We can't say where and we can't say how much, but I think I am able to tell you that I got from an online, authorized Pio dealer (see their website for the list of 20 dealers licensed to sell online) and paid about $1000 less than the best price I could see for an 1130.
The company I dealt with was very easy to work with and has high ratings on resellerratings. The set was ordered one week ago and had to make its way across country. It was promised for today between 1 and 5 and actually arrived at 1245.
I will pay close attention to the info I have read here about setup, and I thank you all for helping with my education.
In the long run, I decided that there were good reasons to buy either the Panny 50/500 or the Pio 5060 and then the Panny went missing so the decision became easy.
Owning an 1130HD, I agree with those who say that the glare is a very serious problem. You need good direct light control for this set. I'm not saying it's worse than other plasmas, but it's not much better than an old-style CRT.
MtBikerE
02-10-06, 09:05 PM
[QUOTE=westa6969]I'm back. I'm not going to flame anyone - the Pioneer is a beautiful set and I always favored it actually but I became a sheep and followed the overwhelming support for the Panny PX500U.
Now - I went from viewing an LCD FP (zero glare/reflection) for months and then an SXRD 60" (very little) and so when I plugged in this Panny I was shocked during daylight hours and then reflections and I had alot more issues than that with the Panny - horrible dirty whites, and no immersive impact whatsoever - the SXRD blew it away in that area with HD. It's more than reflections the sun washes out the panel with a southern exposure.
Perhaps the Pio could significantly improve the impact - watch Van Helsing in HD and tell me what it does compared to a 60" SXRD. I'm not going to prejudge it since every Pioneer I've seen looks terrific with colors and details that add pop to the PQ the Panny couldn't do for me - I'm not saying Panny owners are wrong - it just didn't do anything for me. If I were to go with a Pio it would be a 61" since I want that immersiveness the SXRD size provided.
As to placement of my TV? The wife took over the decorating and is the General here - I live in a luxury condo with high arched windows and I like the view and nearly every room has tall windows even my basement. Had I gone from a CRT to the plasma I may not have thought anything of it but when you transition from LCD FP it's an amazing difference.
I'm happy for ZZTOP and others finding success and satisfaction and my only point in redundant posting is to bring it to the attention of new members to consider that factor and not to hinder their decision - no one warned me.
All we need is to get the 61" updated to the same tech as the 5060 or else make the Elite available for sale via the Web (so we can afford it). I don't think the 61 uses the same tech as the 5060/61 does it? <$7 for a quality 61" seems fair as they used to be well over $10K or $20K for the Elite at one point.
Enjoy your Pioneers - I'm enjoying the feedback nice to read good news for a change. :D[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the input Westa, its appreciated. I thought the same thing in regards to the Panasonic. I thought it had natural looking colors, but compared to the Pioneer it didn't have that immersive quality to it and it seemed flat & picture like.
Even though the pioneer has an incredible picture I'm starting to think the LCD for now might be the way to go. Mainly because I have a wife that is not tech oriented and a 4 yr old that likes to watch tv early in the a.m.. Trying to get them to break a tv in would be nightmarish for me, especially considering i am very particular when it comes to things like that. Having to worry about burn & retention every day wouldn't be fun for me & i know it would only be a matter of time before side bars or a paused Dora the explorer would be a permanent part of the set.
First let me add my intitial impressions. The 480i does indeed appear to be the cleanest , artifact free image as most people have said. Its very smooth.
I also have to say that on both my Star Trek Voyager dvds and Revenge Of The Sith I found the color accuracy to be excellent. I am also simply seeing more colors than I saw on my Pioneer 503cmx, which I had tuned with AVIA and HQV for the Pioneer 59avi player I am using the 480i hdmi output from.
The opening scene with the star cruisers battle in Sith showed more subtle colors across the board if you have a keen eye.
This was a bit of a suprise, I have not yet had a change to tune the panel with AVIA but out of the box it looks to be fairly accurate.
I next tried just small amounts of time at 720p out of the 59ai, you can indeed see more detail, with just a bit of edge enhancment. I have not tested 1080i yet.
A word of warning, the contrast and brightness should be both be turned down, especially the contrast during the 100 hour burn in period, per the BURN in FAQ thread at the top of this section of the board and all the posts I have seen.
I want to take a moment to address glare, in a worst case scenario like the townhouse situation described a few posts back, I think its going to be hard to find almost any solution.
I also have one of the last SOny xbr tubes in the 34 inch size I believe that was made with what Sony called an "Ultra black mask." It was only on certain of their CRT's in the last few years. They often listed the black mask feature, but a few CRT's actually had this better thing they called the ultra black mask'. In an absolute worst case scenario, we had this crt in a "Sun Room" as they often call them in houses and it got glare on the screen due to the glass but was still able to put out an excellent image for the most part. My point is, I know exactly what the poster is talking about, its a very difficult problem because its inherent to your viewing room/environment.
To focus on the Pioneer 5060hd and glare for a moment, poeple have posted , on this board and on others, the glare was the least with the Pioneer over the Panasonic many times. I can't speak to the new NEC, perhaps another member can.
My suspicion is that the Pioneer glass /filter/panel portion, combined with what I like to call the "effective blacks" due to the Pioneers brightness and much higher spec contrast rating than the Panasonic contribute to this. It may more of the latter than the former.
To be fair though I think its an issue with any plasma if you drop out into a very open, bright sun filled room. I might suggest simply going large CRT. I have seen homes where the crt tv simply has a tastefully cut piece of black felt wrapped around the crt sticking out just a few inches. It doesn't look great but it does not look hideous if you use good felt, or carbon filter (like from a Hepafilter) cut to only stick out a few inches. It sounds ridiculous and does not look perfect t I admit, but for those people it did cut down on the glare they had in all glassed in rooms.
Now a better take on that solution is to use shelving or an alcove or one those tall furniture chest things with doors and shelves. The cabinet and doors when open can help with the light. I have even seen a few posts on here where folks have put the plasma inside a large wide cabinet with an open back for ventilation and they open the doors to watch the plasma or crt. The object their was to keep the theme of the room neutral and have the tv not dominate it by being inside a piece of the furniture.
I watched the Opening ceremonies last night, and this was simply jaw dropping and stunning. Where do I start-- the colors, the clearness, the detail, the blacks it was truly mesmerizing and amazing to watch. Again, the blacks are black, period. I kept looking for problems, issues with shadows or greys or grey detail or shadow detail, noise and found very little.
There did seem to be some inherent noise in the broadcast, but being relayed from the other side of the world and with so many cameras involved this is to be expected.
Again let me make the observation, for HDTV, as I saw in testing this panel side by side in a high end local small audio/video shop, the 5060hd bests the Panasonic commerical 50 inch by a fair and noticeable amount. They are both very good panels though, I am still of the opinion you can not go wrong with either one. The Pioneer here clearly does much better in my opinion, again due to the superior scaler no doubt.
I can't begin to tell you how good the acrobats in white, or the Olympic fire, or the colored Olympic rings looked suspended against the great blacks so many, many times. The various colors of the Olympic athletes in their coats with the colors of their various countries were phenomenal too.
It's only been 3 days but so far I am impressed. I upgraded from a barely 3 year old, 3rd gen panel, the Pio 503cmx commerical montor version of that year-- and i am not disappointed I did so. I was worried about many things, construction quality, overall picture improvement being enough to justify a new 50 inch so I did not just make a sidewise move for thousands of dollars and improve a few minor things but make a major dent in my wallet for nothing.
But most of all, I was never satisfied with the 503's blacks, they were very definitely not true black, and that 503 is one fine panel I still think. The 5060 for me does not disappoint on the blacks. A pleasant added surprise, perhaps due to this panel being 10 bit and the old panel being 8 bit are what to my eye are more accurate colors. The subtle pastels and shades of blues seem to be more evident. Some of this might also be due just a bit to being able to feed the panel native 480i, not much added processing is being done to the orignal dvd video data with 480i vs. all the other resolutions. 1080p is going to be a one amazing true jump forward when it hits, I can see that right now.
I will post more on dvd material as I get the time. :D For those of you who follow my posts you know I like to view the restored version of the "Pink Panther" for film tesing and its especially good for the testing of subtle shades of colors and pastels, which that movie has in abundance due to the style of the 1960's sets and locales.
I've had the Pioneer 930 for two weeks.Before the Pioneer I had a toshiba 36in. crt for 4 and a half years.The glare is less on the Pioneer than the old Toshiba.
My 5060 arrived yesterday. :) Going to be wall mounting it tonight. I'll throw a picture up tomorrow. :)
ZZtop quick question if I may - the D-Nice settings in the settings thread are for the Elite version - what did you configure your 5060 for?
I'd appreciate it if you could take a couple of minutes to detail you settings as some of the headings are different in the 5060 (or anyone else of course)
TIA
olax
[QUOTE=tolax]My 5060 arrived yesterday. :) Going to be wall mounting it tonight. I'll throw a picture up tomorrow. :)
ZZtop quick question if I may - the D-Nice settings in the settings thread are for the Elite version - what did you configure your 5060 for?
I'd appreciate it if you could take a couple of minutes to detail you settings as some of the headings are different in the 5060 (or anyone else of course)
TIA
olax[/QUOTE]
Sure for burn in period of 100 hours
I am using
AV mode standard, dynamic is generally considered very vivid colorwise
Contrast- 19
Brightness -2
Color -12 (that setting wont change much after burn in for most folks posts)
Tint- 0
Sharpness -1
PureCinema- Standard
Color detail- MID (that probably wont change later for most again)
CTI- off
my NR- mid
MPEG NR- mid
D-Nice seems is the knowledgeable about the 5060
For those of you looking for inexpensive local supplies of HDMI cables, Walmart, of all places has good, gold connector plated cable, 6ft, the cheapest I could find, the brand is Philips too, so its a known audio/video company.
I had one small crisis when I went to set it up. The delivery day arrived, and I had forgotten to purchase HDMI cables. I was determinined not to pay a small fortune for these things like so many have. I went to Walmarts website and low and behold --- quality name brand HDMI , and HDMI to DVI, and DVI cables. I was pleasantly surprised. Their website was sold out, so I drove to the nearest one and bought the last two HDMI cables. I already had a DVI to HDMI cable that came free with my Oppo dvd player.
These were the least expensive brick and mortar cables I found after checking several places, though I did not check Sears and they carry Philips brand, and may have the same or likely other HDMI cables cheaper since they sell plasmas too.
Btw, that cable from Oppo works just fine and its about as basic a cable as I have ever seen. If you want to spend the big bucks and pay 4-5 times as much as what I paid for the Monster cables fine, but for digital cabling I see no need.
The one exception might be a long cable run or if you run it next to power cables and shielding is a concern to protect the video signal from electrical interference.
Skellington
02-12-06, 02:35 PM
ZZTop,
Are you doing 480i over HDMI to the pioneer? Or are you running analog to it?
Thanks,
Steve
jsf2001
02-12-06, 04:22 PM
[QUOTE=westa6969]
All we need is to get the 61" updated to the same tech as the 5060 or else make the Elite available for sale via the Web (so we can afford it). I don't think the 61 uses the same tech as the 5060/61 does it? <$7 for a quality 61" seems fair as they used to be well over $10K or $20K for the Elite at one point.
Enjoy your Pioneers - I'm enjoying the feedback nice to read good news for a change. :D[/QUOTE]
I found your comment regarding the 61" Pioneer interesting. When I was looking to purchase a 60+ display, I thought that the 61" Pioneer looked washed out when compared to the 50" display and when compared to the Panasonic 65" display. I know that the Pioneer uses the same glass as the 61" NEC and was hoping that NEC /Pioneer would improve that glass significantly with this year's models. Unfortunately, from what I can tell, they've been focusing on their 42"/43" and 50" displays and haven't yet turned their full attention to their 61" display.
I'm sure that will change as 1080p is implemented for the larger panel sizes.
tdavis21484
02-12-06, 05:04 PM
[QUOTE=jsf2001]I found your comment regarding the 61" Pioneer interesting. When I was looking to purchase a 60+ display, I thought that the 61" Pioneer looked washed out when compared to the 50" display and when compared to the Panasonic 65" display. I know that the Pioneer uses the same glass as the 61" NEC and was hoping that NEC /Pioneer would improve that glass significantly with this year's models. Unfortunately, from what I can tell, they've been focusing on their 42"/43" and 50" displays and haven't yet turned their full attention to their 61" display.
I'm sure that will change as 1080p is implemented for the larger panel sizes.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, the 61 inch models are a couple generations older. 4th?
[QUOTE=jsf2001]I found your comment regarding the 61" Pioneer interesting. When I was looking to purchase a 60+ display, I thought that the 61" Pioneer looked washed out when compared to the 50" display and when compared to the Panasonic 65" display. I know that the Pioneer uses the same glass as the 61" NEC and was hoping that NEC /Pioneer would improve that glass significantly with this year's models. Unfortunately, from what I can tell, they've been focusing on their 42"/43" and 50" displays and haven't yet turned their full attention to their 61" display.
I'm sure that will change as 1080p is implemented for the larger panel sizes.[/QUOTE]
yeah the delivery guy tried to tell my assistant who stayed at my house for the delivery that I could have gotten the 61 inch Pioneer for about the same price. My thought was, true or not for the same price or close, who cares. Its ancient technology already. I was replacing a 3rd gen Pioneer, why buy another piece of 2 year technology.
I agree, Pioneer is clearly focusing on the smaller size panels, probably saving 60 and up for a 1080p update. Remember most of the early info says most people won't see a big difference on a 50 inch 1080p panel when you factor in a 7 or more foot viewing difference.
[QUOTE=tdavis21484]Yeah, the 61 inch models are a couple generations older. 4th?[/QUOTE]
Yeah I think 4th is right, and thats probably across the board hardware-wise, meaning, glass, filter, electronics.
Probably does not even have HDMI inputs?
[QUOTE=Skellington]ZZTop,
Are you doing 480i over HDMI to the pioneer? Or are you running analog to it?
Thanks,
Steve[/QUOTE]
480i out of the 59avi into the panel.
I tried 720p, but it was not quite as smooth and clean, though it did show more detail. I have not had enough time to play with lots of dvd material at all 480i, 720p and 1080i yet. To my eye though, 720p always looks smoother on motion and provides a clearer image than 1080i in the past.
When I get more time I will play with some discs and all 3 resolutions.
After having this for a week of HDTV and the Olympics, I really have to comment the level of image detail on this model over my 3rd Gen Pioneer, the 503cmx, is really, truly, a step up.
This set is very good for HDTV viewing, since some models of Bluray HD-DVD output 1080i, I have myself wondering if that image quality will be as good. If so we are in for quite the treat with existing equipment even though it may not do 1080p.
I saw some mention of feeding this panel the 480i and letting is scale to its native resolution, but when I feed it 480i , the display button shows 480i on the pioneer's display popup on the screen.
Is there a way to have the 5060hd take the 480i and upscale it?
I have read all the threads but maybe I missed that somehow?
R Harkness
02-18-06, 02:46 PM
There's a store near me that has a (fairly) dark room in which an projector is playing, along with several plasmas including the Pio 5060. There's this HD loop about a guitar shop/collector and as cool as the HD is on the projector, it's like you can reach in and touch the guitars on the Pio 5060.
It was hard to take my eyes of that image on that plasma, it was so rich, clear and detailed. And even in very dark lighting the blacks looked excellent on the ubiquitous Robbie Williams concert footage.
Killer display.
[QUOTE=ZZtop]I saw some mention of feeding this panel the 480i and letting is scale to its native resolution, but when I feed it 480i , the display button shows 480i on the pioneer's display popup on the screen.
Is there a way to have the 5060hd take the 480i and upscale it?
I have read all the threads but maybe I missed that somehow?[/QUOTE]
It is scaling it. The display info is just telling you it is receiving a 480i signal.
[QUOTE=D-Nice]It is scaling it. The display info is just telling you it is receiving a 480i signal.[/QUOTE]
I thought it looked dam good for 480i, and it certainly did NOT look interlaced but what is it scaling it to? 720p? 1080i? the panels native res most likley?
[QUOTE=ZZtop]I thought it looked dam good for 480i, and it certainly did NOT look interlaced but what is it scaling it to? 720p? 1080i? the panels native res most likley?[/QUOTE]
It's scaling it to the panel's native resolution. If you set Pure Cinema to ADV, the PQ should really pop out of the screen.
Viventis
02-19-06, 09:36 AM
I unboxed my Pioneer 5060 on Friday night. My initial impressions:
I was impressed with the degree of packaging/boxing care that Pioneer took. The outer box is huge. Rounding up, it is 60" long, 44" high and 21" wide. The width made me feel confident it wasn't accidently tipped during transportation. Any worry about damage was gone as soon as I lifted the outer box off to reveal the inner boxes. Everything comes in its own box. The plasma, the speakers, the media center and the stand are individually packaged with their own instruction manuals. Setup instructions for all the parts are very well written and easy to follow.
Although I will most likely have this hung on the wall eventually, it looks really good on the stand. I even like the silver base better at home than when I saw it in the store. It perfectly offsets the silver base of my Athena floor standing speakers as well as the silver of the media box, the Moxi cable box and the new Oppo DVD player. The base itself is plastic but the stand is attached to two "L" shaped pieces of tubular steel. It's kind of like a wall mount attached to a table stand. On the stand, the tv feels very stable. The instructions recommend a wall tether or the use of two holes in the back of the base to better stabilize the tv.
I think I will use the holes. They are behind the stand and invisible to the front. Better yet, they are recessed in a round wells approximately 1/2" deep by 1" across. The instructions say to use wood screws, but these wells will allow me to drill two holes to minimize damage to the surface and use bolts and washers coming up from the inside. Once bolted, I think the stand could withstand anything my kids or Zoe, my german sheherd can throw at it. The instructions to install the stand suggest you lay the tv on its face while you bolt the stand to it. I did this using a comforter on the coffee table. Someone in another thread recommended having two adults available to hold the tv upright while the third bolts the stand onto the tv in a vertical position. Great suggestion!
Hooking up the media box was fairly straight forward. I did make one mistake that could easily be repeated. I was hooking up the Moxi box to Input 1 and the Oppo to input 3. The Moxi had to be hooked up via component. (Unfortunately, despite the assurances of Charter's customer service department, the Moxi's DVI output still does not work. Yes, I know about initializing the HDMI inputs in the menu.) I am hooking up the Pioneer's speakers via the RCA jacks in the media box for simplicity and ease of use for the kids and their mom. By the way, the "Air" option, which puts a gap between the display and the speakers looks really good. (Of course, both units have optical outs to the sound system too.) The RCA sound jacks for Input 1 are right next to the component jacks for Input 1. The component jacks for Input 3 have RCA audio jacks next to them as well. These ARE NOT the audio jacks for input 3! That would make too much sense. The audio jacks for Input 3 are a couple inches above and to the side.
No dead or stuck pixels!!!!! That was my biggest fear about ordering the Pioneer on line. Remember, TV Authority has a "Pixel Perfect" warranty for AVS members. You have to ask for it.
I am using D-Nice's break in settings. Thanks man, you are a treasure to these threads.
The Moxi HD/DVR is a very convenient piece of equipment. Ease of recording and pausing live tv are two excellent features. Unfortunately, Charter still has many cable channels in analog. The Moxi does not handle them as well as the Motorla HD receiver I use in a different room. Therefore, the SD analog channels are dreadful on the Pioneer. They look like you are viewing the picture in the "Claritin Clear" commercial. I am thinking of splitting the signal and using the Moxi for the digital channels and the tuner for the analog channels (with or without a cable card) The cable guy comes next week to sort this out with me.
The Cinema Mode does a fine job stretching SD 4:3 pictures. I was torn between the "Just Mode" on the Pannys and the excellent 4:3 stretching capabilities of the NEC. If that is your hangup, stop worrying. I can hardly tell that the picture is altered unless I am really looking for the stretching. The cropping high and low is subtle. I can read all of the words in my Moxi bottom menu.
SD digital channels vary in quality but are surprisingly good. Definitely watchable.
The HD channels are stunning (that is, when they are actually broadcast IN HD). I am wondering whether all of the types of channels will look better through the HDMI input vs. the component cables I am now forced to use. Anybody care to comment on that? (The Motorola is also component) I will report back when I try the direct input into the tuner. I trust this will be closer to the HDMI signal than my current setup.
It appears that the HD channels are always 16x9, even when the viewable portion is only 4:3. The stations apparently add the side bars to turn 4:3 material into wide screen. This is significant because "auto wide" does not work on 4:3 HD channels because the tv thinks it is getting a 16x9 picture. Cinema Mode does not work either. You have to put up with the side bars or manually stretch with Wide. Does anyone think the the side bars on 4:3 commercials are a burn in threat while watching HD channels that otherwise fill the screen? At least ESPN HD puts aesthetically pleasing side bars up when it switches to 4:3.
I haven't seen anything truly HD on Fox yet. I suppose I have to wait for American Idol. I now see why so many people are watching Discovery HD. I am. Wow!!! I saw my first HD college basketball game on ESPN. This is going to be good. I hope the NCAA tournament will be HD. The Olympic coverage is a mixed bag. Some shots look great while others don't quite measure up.
The Oppo DVD player performs beyond all expectations. I have read all of the threads about macroblocking. I could probably write a paper on it. However, nothing has appeared (to my eye at least) that fits the description in the threads. I don't intend to hunt for it. I think I will just enjoy the near HD quality of my movies until something ugly jumps out and bites me. The kids were all oohs and ahhs when we watched Ice Age for the first time. Even they noticed details they never remembered before.
I hoped this helps a little for those still sitting on the fence. All in all, I am very happy with my choice of the 5060 and the Oppo.
[QUOTE=Viventis]I unboxed my Pioneer 5060 on Friday night. My initial impressions:
I was impressed with the degree of packaging/boxing care that Pioneer took. The outer box is huge. Rounding up, it is 60" long, 44" high and 21" wide. The width made me feel confident it wasn't accidently tipped during transportation. Any worry about damage was gone as soon as I lifted the outer box off to reveal the inner boxes. Everything comes in its own box. The plasma, the speakers, the media center and the stand are individually packaged with their own instruction manuals. Setup instructions for all the parts are very well written and easy to follow.
Although I will most likely have this hung on the wall eventually, it looks really good on the stand. I even like the silver base better at home than when I saw it in the store. It perfectly offsets the silver base of my Athena floor standing speakers as well as the silver of the media box, the Moxi cable box and the new Oppo DVD player. The base itself is plastic but the stand is attached to two "L" shaped pieces of tubular steel. It's kind of like a wall mount attached to a table stand. On the stand, the tv feels very stable. The instructions recommend a wall tether or the use of two holes in the back of the base to better stabilize the tv.
I think I will use the holes. They are behind the stand and invisible to the front. Better yet, they are recessed in a round wells approximately 1/2" deep by 1" across. The instructions say to use wood screws, but these wells will allow me to drill two holes to minimize damage to the surface and use bolts and washers coming up from the inside. Once bolted, I think the stand could withstand anything my kids or Zoe, my german sheherd can throw at it. The instructions to install the stand suggest you lay the tv on its face while you bolt the stand to it. I did this using a comforter on the coffee table. Someone in another thread recommended having two adults available to hold the tv upright while the third bolts the stand onto the tv in a vertical position. Great suggestion!
Hooking up the media box was fairly straight forward. I did make one mistake that could easily be repeated. I was hooking up the Moxi box to Input 1 and the Oppo to input 3. The Moxi had to be hooked up via component. (Unfortunately, despite the assurances of Charter's customer service department, the Moxi's DVI output still does not work. Yes, I know about initializing the HDMI inputs in the menu.) I am hooking up the Pioneer's speakers via the RCA jacks in the media box for simplicity and ease of use for the kids and their mom. By the way, the "Air" option, which puts a gap between the display and the speakers looks really good. (Of course, both units have optical outs to the sound system too.) The RCA sound jacks for Input 1 are right next to the component jacks for Input 1. The component jacks for Input 3 have RCA audio jacks next to them as well. These ARE NOT the audio jacks for input 3! That would make too much sense. The audio jacks for Input 3 are a couple inches above and to the side.
No dead or stuck pixels!!!!! That was my biggest fear about ordering the Pioneer on line. Remember, TV Authority has a "Pixel Perfect" warranty for AVS members. You have to ask for it.
I am using D-Nice's break in settings. Thanks man, you are a treasure to these threads.
The Moxi HD/DVR is a very convenient piece of equipment. Ease of recording and pausing live tv are two excellent features. Unfortunately, Charter still has many cable channels in analog. The Moxi does not handle them as well as the Motorla HD receiver I use in a different room. Therefore, the SD analog channels are dreadful on the Pioneer. They look like you are viewing the picture in the "Claritin Clear" commercial. I am thinking of splitting the signal and using the Moxi for the digital channels and the tuner for the analog channels (with or without a cable card) The cable guy comes next week to sort this out with me.
The Cinema Mode does a fine job stretching SD 4:3 pictures. I was torn between the "Just Mode" on the Pannys and the excellent 4:3 stretching capabilities of the NEC. If that is your hangup, stop worrying. I can hardly tell that the picture is altered unless I am really looking for the stretching. The cropping high and low is subtle. I can read all of the words in my Moxi bottom menu.
SD digital channels vary in quality but are surprisingly good. Definitely watchable.
The HD channels are stunning (that is, when they are actually broadcast IN HD). I am wondering whether all of the types of channels will look better through the HDMI input vs. the component cables I am now forced to use. Anybody care to comment on that? (The Motorola is also component) I will report back when I try the direct input into the tuner. I trust this will be closer to the HDMI signal than my current setup.
It appears that the HD channels are always 16x9, even when the viewable portion is only 4:3. The stations apparently add the side bars to turn 4:3 material into wide screen. This is significant because "auto wide" does not work on 4:3 HD channels because the tv thinks it is getting a 16x9 picture. Cinema Mode does not work either. You have to put up with the side bars or manually stretch with Wide. Does anyone think the the side bars on 4:3 commercials are a burn in threat while watching HD channels that otherwise fill the screen? At least ESPN HD puts aesthetically pleasing side bars up when it switches to 4:3.
I haven't seen anything truly HD on Fox yet. I suppose I have to wait for American Idol. I now see why so many people are watching Discovery HD. I am. Wow!!! I saw my first HD college basketball game on ESPN. This is going to be good. I hope the NCAA tournament will be HD. The Olympic coverage is a mixed bag. Some shots look great while others don't quite measure up.
The Oppo DVD player performs beyond all expectations. I have read all of the threads about macroblocking. I could probably write a paper on it. However, nothing has appeared (to my eye at least) that fits the description in the threads. I don't intend to hunt for it. I think I will just enjoy the near HD quality of my movies until something ugly jumps out and bites me. The kids were all oohs and ahhs when we watched Ice Age for the first time. Even they noticed details they never remembered before.
I hoped this helps a little for those still sitting on the fence. All in all, I am very happy with my choice of the 5060 and the Oppo.[/QUOTE]
One thing I should posted more clearly, you must turn each HDMI port separately. Also as you found out, port 1 I think it is can be used for two different types of cabling input. Also the HDTV antenna is only on the upper coax input jack, not the lower, I believe they call the upper coax connector, #1 of the 2.
When first hooking up my 5060, I tried out the silver sensor antenna I use on the lower jack and got nothing but static. I knew for sure I was just making a setup error, but it did add a bit of expection frustration as I had not seen anything on the screen yet, to hook up my antenna only to find white noise.
It was a humorous moment and my own fault for trying a casual as throw it together approach on the cabling. But with all new toys thats part of the fun.
Viventis
02-19-06, 12:35 PM
[QUOTE=ZZtop]One thing I should posted more clearly, you must turn each HDMI port separately. Also as you found out, port 1 I think it is can be used for two different types of cabling input. Also the HDTV antenna is only on the upper coax input jack, not the lower, I believe they call the upper coax connector, #1 of the 2.
When first hooking up my 5060, I tried out the silver sensor antenna I use on the lower jack and got nothing but static. I knew for sure I was just making a setup error, but it did add a bit of expection frustration as I had not seen anything on the screen yet, to hook up my antenna only to find white noise.
It was a humorous moment and my own fault for trying a casual as throw it together approach on the cabling. But with all new toys thats part of the fun.[/QUOTE]
I understand what you mean about the casual approach. That's why I assumed that audio for Input 3 would be right above where it was for Input 1. Unfortunately, I already tried turning on HDMI for both inputs. I left the DVI/HDMI cable attached to Input 1 for when the cable guy gets here. When I turn on HDMI for input 1 I get a blank screen, When I turn it off, the component takes over and I get my picture. Obviously, I tried it out with the DVI-HDMI cable before I hooked up the componet cables. No help in the Moxi menus to similarly turn DVI on or off. Maybe it has to be done in the service menu? I'll find that out next week.
Back to one of my unanswered questions; Can anyone compare the (cable) picture quality between DVI/HDMI and component?
[QUOTE=Viventis]Hooking up the media box was fairly straight forward. I did make one mistake that could easily be repeated. I was hooking up the Moxi box to Input 1 and the Oppo to input 3. The Moxi had to be hooked up via component. (Unfortunately, despite the assurances of Charter's customer service department, the Moxi's DVI output still does not work. Yes, I know about initializing the HDMI inputs in the menu.)[/QUOTE]
You can hook up the Moxi to input 1. Input 1 has both a component and HDMI connection. Just make sure HDMI is disabled on that input.
Just wanted to drop a quick post, the closing ceremonies were colorful and looked spectacular.
Again, the level of detail and the black levels are a huge improvement over my 3rd gen Pioneer 503cmx, and again I would say these 5060hd is very much in the neighborhood of excellent blacks as the Panny commercial 50 inch.
I still think to tell the difference you would need to sit the panels side by side to tell the difference.
deharry
03-04-06, 10:33 AM
[QUOTE=ZZtop]Yes, I would have, but now that I have the Pioneer, I see too much about it the Panasonic does not have. The media box is nice, lets me run the cables nice and clean to the box as opposed to a rat's nest of them on the plasma itself.
I had been having some second thoughts, what with some of the Panasonics having this 720p defect that has recently been discovered, and the case being so plain looking. That 720p defect is a very serious one. The Pio's case is shiny Piano black, it looks like a million bucks.
But the Pioneer came with 2 HDMI inputs, tuner, speakers, and stand. I probably won't use the speakers, and may not use the tuner, but some people will for sure.
The big issue for me was better blacks, the absolute best blacks are on the latest Panasonics though the contrast rating on the Pioneer is better so "effective blacks" might be a more accurate term. So assuming the consumer is starting from scracth, they would need to buy after buying the Panasonic 50 inch commerical panel:
1. HDMI blade or
2. DVI blades
3. Tuner
4. Speakers if they don't have a current audio setup to tie into , or don't want to use it
5. Plasma Stand mount
(the table stand support or wall mount if you opt for that,not the table furniture it sits on for those who might get confused)
The pioneer has the better scaler obviously as well. Some of this I have already posted so I will try not to repeat myself too many times here.
In the end, its a great market for the plasma manufacturers right now, and the consumer has two very nice panels to choose from. As has been posted I don't think you can go wrong with either panel, either the basic stripped down panel Panasonic has or loaded Pioneer panel. Since Pioneer did a huge price drop on their panel's a few weeks ago though, I do not see that much price difference between Panasonic and Pio anymore.
Several members have posted, to their horror, a few vendors that have 50 in commercial Panny stock have actually jacked up their prices by 500$ or more, and when questioned, reply simply: "Demand"! I have seen the Panasonic 50 in commerical version in stock now and then a certain few specifc vendors I won't name, but at 1000$ plus premium over the vendors that of the AVSFORUM sponsors. That's one hefty chunk of pure cash profit the vendor taking out of your wallet. :confused:
Add up the cost of the 2 blades, stand, tuner and I think you get to the Pio cost or exceed it fairly quick.
The path that led me to the Pioneer was bumpy and way too long, but I finally have a panel!
As a funny footnote, 2 months ago I bought the Panasonic stand, its still sitting my hallway in the box unopened, and need to rid of it if anyone knows the best place to sell it.[/QUOTE]
Great to hear you are satisfied with your Pioneer. I need you or others to enlighten me on this "great blacks" issue. I made my choice on a Toshiba 50HPX95, after getting rid of a Panny 500U after 2 months. I had the Panny set up according to Video Essentials, and was satisfied with the picture. It was the lack of features and a crummy QAM tuner that could not be made to function, even with the replacement, that made Panny refund my money.
My Toshiba has the same picture as I had with the Panny, after all it has the same glass. I am happy with the picture quality. My blacks, as say as in "Law & Order" are black. There is some detail, however the contrast seems to be to high. What should I look for to assure the best "black"?
HistoneMaster
03-04-06, 10:52 AM
With blacks there are two things you should look for. Black crush and black level. Black level is simply how dark the panel can get. Turn off all the lights in your house/apartment at night with the TV on a black screen. You'll see some glow coming from the TV - the amount of glow will vary between sets. Some leak quite a bit of light, and actually appear more of a dark grey then black when viewing dark source material, which bothers many avid AV enthusiasts. Poor blacks also contribute to lower contrast ratios on some TV's.
Black crush is a bit more difficult to see. This happens when you loose detail in dark scenes. Essentially all of the very dark colors become "black", so you will loose the intricacies of dark hair, dark fabric, and dark textures. Some people notice this more then others, but again, if you're an av enthusiast, you want to get all the detail you can out of your set.
Doug
PS - My 5060HD was delivered yesterday. Easy setup, no problems - even watched the ghost whisperer and close to home because it was the only thing in HD.
I have been watching my Stargate and Atlanta dvds on this plasma and the image is very very nice.
I am doing 480i out the Pioneer 59avi via hdmi. The blacks really are quite nice, and the special effects are phenomenal.
You all seem to know a fair bit about the 5060 and HDMI, so let me ask you for some help.
I am overwhelmed with the PQ of my Pio.. it's extraordinary with ONE exception, being a "judder" to the picture when there is medium to fast "HORIZONTAL PANNING".. that is a slight jitter to the picture that looks like the panel is struggling to keep up it's framerate.
I have HDMI from a Pana E65 dvd recorder and HDMI from a Sony HD STB running into my Sony AMP, then switched out to the Pio media receiver. In both cases I've set my devices to 720p and the tried the panel at both 100hz and 75 hz drive modes.
Nothing I do seems to get rid of the jutter. I even tried Component inputs straight to the media receiver.. same thing.
What am I doing wrong ? And what is this Pure Cinema setting that's supposed to make images "smoother".. it is not selectable in most cases.. sometimes I go to DVD and it's avaialble, other times it's disabled or can't be set to ADV etc.
Cheers
1000
I've seen a lot written about the blacks on this thread and would like to ask for someone to please comment as to the approach Pioneer uses to achieve these blacks.
It appears that rear projector companies have been using dynamic iris to disguise weak blacks. I'd rather go with a display that has good ANSI contrast and good blacks without some round about way of dimming the entire picture.
Thanks in advance for your comments.
[QUOTE=1000]You all seem to know a fair bit about the 5060 and HDMI, so let me ask you for some help.
I am overwhelmed with the PQ of my Pio.. it's extraordinary with ONE exception, being a "judder" to the picture when there is medium to fast "HORIZONTAL PANNING".. that is a slight jitter to the picture that looks like the panel is struggling to keep up it's framerate.
I have HDMI from a Pana E65 dvd recorder and HDMI from a Sony HD STB running into my Sony AMP, then switched out to the Pio media receiver. In both cases I've set my devices to 720p and the tried the panel at both 100hz and 75 hz drive modes.
Nothing I do seems to get rid of the jutter. I even tried Component inputs straight to the media receiver.. same thing.
What am I doing wrong ? And what is this Pure Cinema setting that's supposed to make images "smoother".. it is not selectable in most cases.. sometimes I go to DVD and it's avaialble, other times it's disabled or can't be set to ADV etc.
Cheers
1000[/QUOTE]
Sounds like you live in a country with PAL signals. NO TV handles 50Hz correctly. Some will handle the judder better, however, it's still there.
[QUOTE=JimP]I've seen a lot written about the blacks on this thread and would like to ask for someone to please comment as to the approach Pioneer uses to achieve these blacks.
It appears that rear projector companies have been using dynamic iris to disguise weak blacks. I'd rather go with a display that has good ANSI contrast and good blacks without some round about way of dimming the entire picture.
Thanks in advance for your comments.[/QUOTE]
Plasmas are totally different when it comes to projection systems. For plasmas, each phosphor cell has to be charged with electricity to emit light. The only problem is the cells always has a slight charge when the plasma is on. To get deeper blacks, manufacturers have to handle the slight charge (AKA pre-charge). Pioneer handles it with their crystal emissive layer. Pioneer has one of the best ANSI contrast ratios in the industry (1135:1 on the PDP-5060HD per HT Mag). They have made some improvements in their current generation, however the exact numbers have not been published yet.
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