Should i exchange my sony set? I ONLY HAVE TILL TOMMOROW!!! HELP!!

[Cleanupthat]

Hi, I have a sony kv30hs420. I purchased this set about a month ago. And tommorw my warranty expires with CC (i did not get the 3 year sercive plan). Anyway i called sony today about my problem and they said someone would be able to come out after 2 WEEKS!!

I have several problems with the set and i have tried everything to correct them and now YOU are my last hope before i think i will exchange this set.

My first problem is

1. There are 5 inch thick vertical faint lines on both sides of the hdtv. It is most noticable on light backrounds and white backrounds, or when the image pans left and right. Now i have researched day and night about this issue and to my surprise i have heard other people have a similar issue. I went to CC and BB today and looked at there sony kv30hs420 sets and saw none with the problem. I called sony up (as mentioned above) about it, and they said they have never heard of such a thing and that a service technician would come out, but not for a while.

2. I am having some distortion of the picture (which you should expect with widescreen CRTs), lines curve upwards on the bottom left of the screen and on the top left they curve downwards. THIS CANNOT BE FIXED IN THE SERVICE MENU AND CAN ONLY BE FIXED BY APPLYING MAGNETS. I have learned to live with it the past month but it is kinda annoying when you have a straight line on the screen and it curves.

3. The right side of the image is kinda distorted a little also. It has the same problem as above just not as bad.

So with that said WHEN I GET A TV I WANT IT PERFECT!!!! My first problem is very bad though, and it makes watching HD hockey and these winter olympics BAD.

I have tried everything on fixing the problem, dont even bother trying to help me out more than you guys have, unless YOU ARE A GENIOUS.

So my main point is what do you think i should do????? I have 3 options

1. Keep the set and live with the problems.

2. Take it back to CC and exchange it for another 30hs420. In hopes that the new one has no problems, or at least not as bad as i am suffering with.

3. Have a sony technician come out 2 weeks from now and try to fix it.

So.... I am thinking of number 2 because i think when i exchange it the picture will be better on the new set. I am going to bring my xbox 360 to the store and test it on it first to make sure i see no visible problems like i can with this one!!!

What would you do in my situation. I am on the fence with the one. I have seen much worse problems people have and i am afraid that my new sony i exchange it for will be worse and suffer from worse problems. WHAT WOULD YOU DO???

I need your help and your sympathy :) PLEASE......

PLEASE RESOND ASAP. I AM RUNNING OUT OF TIME. LITTERALLY!!!

[joebxr]

Take it back if you can and get another. Not sure you can hookup your Xbox, since the new set you get will be in the back, boxed up. But more improtantnly, getting a new set starts your warranty all over again. So if you get it home and find an issue, then call Sony and have Tech come out...but make sure they know it's another new set with same problem and that if they don't fix it you want it replaced or authorization to have CC refund your purchase price.

[Cleanupthat]

[QUOTE=joebxr]Take it back if you can and get another. Not sure you can hookup your Xbox, since the new set you get will be in the back, boxed up. But more improtantnly, getting a new set starts your warranty all over again. So if you get it home and find an issue, then call Sony and have Tech come out...but make sure they know it's another new set with same problem and that if they don't fix it you want it replaced or authorization to have CC refund your purchase price.[/QUOTE]

Yup, i am going tommorow to exchange it. They only have 2 left though and they cannot hold an item so i hope and pray some guy doesnt come and get um. I already talked to the CC guy and he said it would be fine if i bring my xbox 360 and hook it up to the new tv to test it out. So that is what i am going to do!! We can only hope it works out for me. WISH ME LUCK. I will report back with what happens, if anyone cares.

PS: This will be my 4th hdtv since christmas.

1.I had a sanyo that had horrible geometry.

2. Returned it for same sanyo with bad geometry not as bad as the first.

3. GOt money back from sanyo and went to CC and got this sony which has problems but not as bad as the first 2.

4. We can only hope 4th is the charm for me!!! I am going to exchange my sony for the same set. AHHHHHHH IT BETTER BE GOOD!!!!!!!!!!

[lzzy]

^^^

Looks like you can use an ISF calibration!

[Porcupine2]

LOL you are going through the same thing as me and my stupid Toshiba 30HF85s!! Glad to see that there are other picky consumers out there. The more people like us the better. Even if we are too picky sometimes, it is still for the good of humanity because customers like us will force TV makers to do a better job with the design and/or quality control of their televisions.

I also recommend a return. But...what is CC's return policy like? So far I've only done Sears and Best Buy. At Best Buy, you only have 30 days *from the original purchase date* to return sets. If CC is the same, you could return your set tomorrow, but you wouldn't be able to do another return after that....

[Porcupine2]

That was nice of the CC guy to let you open and test a new unit in the store. I have asked to do that too but mostly gotten negative responses on that. :)

ISF calibration might be a better choice though. I'm not recommending it, as I still haven't done it myself, but it is something I'm looking into as well. I still think returning TVs is a good choice too (I'm doing it and still am...I've returned about the same amount as you). Right now my main focus is to get a set without unrepairable defects (such as malformed or dirty glass screen, or broken pixels in the shadow mask). Toshiba doesn't even seem to be able to avoid that much these days. I'm hoping the 30HF66 is better. If it's not, I guess I'll have to buy a Panasonic or something (if I can still find one then).

[Cleanupthat]

[QUOTE=Porcupine2]LOL you are going through the same thing as me and my stupid Toshiba 30HF85s!! Glad to see that there are other picky consumers out there. The more people like us the better. Even if we are too picky sometimes, it is still for the good of humanity because customers like us will force TV makers to do a better job with the design and/or quality control of their televisions.

I also recommend a return. But...what is CC's return policy like? So far I've only done Sears and Best Buy. At Best Buy, you only have 30 days *from the original purchase date* to return sets. If CC is the same, you could return your set tomorrow, but you wouldn't be able to do another return after that....[/QUOTE]

Ya, sometimes i think i am a little to picky but i want my hd set to be 99% problem free. I just cant take all these problems anymore.

I am going today a CC to exchange it and if this one has something that is annouying to me and is unfixable in the service menu and can only be fixed by applying magnets, then i am done with the CRTs. I will move into the lcd range even if i have to suffer from the picture qualitiy from them.

I just simply cannot believe how bad geometry (and many other types of problems) can be with these crts.

Soooooo, i can only hope this 4th tv is the charm and that i only find very minor problems at the most with the set.

The only thing i am worried about is it might be even worse than the one i have right now!! But that is why i want to try it in the store. But i probably wont find a problem while testing it there. I dont know maybe i would, but i JUST DONT KNOW.

Well, that about somes it up. CC has a 30 day policy too. They better give me a new warranty today!!! Because today is my lasy day with this one.

Sony is regarded for the best hd crts and i will expect nothing less than PERFECT!

[Dearth]

If you are such a perfectionist you should have considered the XBR or even XS line.

You'd be surprised how many geometry fixes there are in the service menu. You are right with a CRT it won't ever be "perfect" but you can adjust any corner or edge you like and get them looking pretty good. If you are scared get an ISF tech. Otherwise research the menus, most of the xbr menu will be the same as your set.

[Biochemlab]

With the verticle bars, I would exchange it. If it was just geo problems, I would just tweak the service menu or call an ISF guy.

[Porcupine2]

It's true that no CRT can have perfect geometry everywhere (actually they can but they need to be 4 feet deep) but most of today's CRTs have terrible quality control. Even Sony's quality control appears to be lacking as of now. When a set with bad quality control comes out bad, the geometry is MUCH worse than it needs to be, for no necessary reason.

Hear that, TV makers? Cleanupthat is gonna maybe give up on CRTs and move to LCD because you can't get your quality control in order. A lot of people blame consumers for the move to LCD, but it is the TV companies' fault as well. If Sony/Toshiba/etc made good quality CRTs with proper quality control, CRTs could still be going strong.

[nick2003]

[QUOTE=Cleanupthat]
Sony is regarded for the best hd crts and i will expect nothing less than PERFECT![/QUOTE]

Well you mine as well give up then, No tv is perfect (especially right out of the box without an isf calibration) and the Sony CRT Tube sets are about as perfect as your going to get as a consumer. Any better and you'd half to spend THOUSANDS on a tv half the size of yours like the ones used in production and im sure those aren't even perfect. Ive been the LCD route and although geometry is good the picture doesn't have the "pop" to it, For a great picture you need good black levels which lcds don't have. My advice is exchange your set for the same model or an XS or XBR depending on how much you want to spend and get an isf calibration if you want a better picture. Im sure you just got a bad one as everyone else here seems to be happy with there HS420's.

[Jinx]

Hey are these verticle bars just like 'slightly' light area's of the screen? and can you not really see them unless the picture is moving? if so i'm having the exact same thing with my XS955, they are not 5 inches tho.. they are probably 1/2 inch thick and one on each side of the screen (about 5 inches away from the edge).. Usually mostly noticble when playing bright video games that pan, or during a white screen panning.. My suspicions is this is somethign that will be viewable on ALL flat glass large monitor/tv's you claim the store units did not have this, look for smaller lines, and see if you notice it for sure? cuz i'd be surprised.. I think its part of making the tv... but i could be wrong.. its just a hunch tho...

[Q of BanditZ]

[QUOTE=nick2003]Well you mine as well give up then, No tv is perfect (especially right out of the box without an isf calibration) and the Sony CRT Tube sets are about as perfect as your going to get as a consumer. [/quote]

Bolded for emphasis and truth.


Any better and you'd half to spend THOUSANDS on a tv half the size of yours like the ones used in production and im sure those aren't even perfect. Ive been the LCD route and although geometry is good the picture doesn't have the "pop" to it, For a great picture you need good black levels which lcds don't have. My advice is exchange your set for the same model or an XS or XBR depending on how much you want to spend and get an isf calibration if you want a better picture. Im sure you just got a bad one as everyone else here seems to be happy with there HS420's.

Exactly right.

If you want to get as close to perfection as you can, with ANY of these TVs...you need to get an ISF calibration.

If you go into a store demanding sheer perfection out of the box, you will NEVER, EVER be satisifed.

[Dearth]

[QUOTE=Porcupine2]
Hear that, TV makers? Cleanupthat is gonna maybe give up on CRTs and move to LCD because you can't get your quality control in order. [/QUOTE]

And TV makers are grinning ear to ear with delight. How many XBR960s fit in a truck compared to SXRDs?

How about production costs?

It is really a miracle that a CRT gets to you without looking like complete crap after being banged around in transit.

[Q of BanditZ]

[QUOTE=Dearth]And TV makers are grinning ear to ear with delight. How many XBR960s fit in a truck compared to SXRDs?

How about production costs?[/quote]

Agreed.




It is really a miracle that a CRT gets to you without looking like complete crap after being banged around in transit.

This part of your statement I trip up on.

Surely you're not suggesting that OBVIOULSY more fragile hardware like plasmas, flat panels, and the like are MORE durable than a CRT are you?

[Porcupine2]

Dearth, so are you one of those people who believe that the poor quality of CRTs these days is actually a purposeful (and evil, and greedy) master plan by the TV companies to phase out CRTs from the consumer mindset and market?

I'm not saying you are wrong, of course. I suspect that myself, but I'm hoping that's not the case because I like CRTs. Don't all of us like CRTs here, since this is the CRT forum?

[nick2003]

The Sony sets are not poor quality, Toshiba and many other brands? Yes, But all that is wrong with the sony sets is minor geometry problems which is to be expected on any CRT. This guy obviously got a defective set and it is not common.

[Porcupine2]

From looking at 20 or 30 Sony units in stores recently during my continuing HDTV shopping adventure, I saw that most of them had bad RGB color convergence for starters. Not the worst, but not the best either. Some of the Sonys I saw I would classify as completely unacceptable. The 1 Sony unit I tested more carefully with a DVD player also had Y/C convergence problems through the composite input (the only thing I tested since it was in the front). The Sonys have minor magnetic discoloration on the sides due to the huge speakers being there, and the geometry also goes to crap in the sides on any Sony I've seen.

I also saw 1 broken 30HS420 where one of the fine horizontal stabilizing wires had broken, therefore only the top 1/3rd of the screen was viewable and the rest was just this crazy wacked out garbage.

Defective Sonys are not as uncommon these days as you guys make them out to be.

[nick2003]

Them are store display models that have been on display for probably more then a year ran every day all day, There are bound to be problems with the way they run them contrast and everything sky high and im sure they've been banged around (causing convergance issues). Completly differtent then bringing a brand new set home. The convergance is correctable in the service menu. But i'd like to see you show me a consumer tv thats better then the sony sets, Can't be done! There are problems but there are problems with every tv and the sonys have the most acceptable problems. Im sorry but from your post's you sound like your expecting perfection out of a consumer grade tv and the truth of the matter is it doesnt exist! simple as that. You can try and be an audiophile and videophile all you want but you'll never be happy untill you accept this fact. You can go and buy a 10 grand plasma and its not perfect, Everyone knows these problems exist on these sets and they live with them.

[justsc]

[QUOTE=nick2003]Them are store display models that have been on display for probably more then a year ran every day all day, There are bound to be problems with the way they run them contrast and everything sky high and im sure they've been banged around (causing convergance issues). Completly differtent then bringing a brand new set home. The convergance is correctable in the service menu. But i'd like to see you show me a consumer tv thats better then the sony sets, Can't be done! There are problems but there are problems with every tv and the sonys have the most acceptable problems. Im sorry but from your post's you sound like your expecting perfection out of a consumer grade tv and the truth of the matter is it doesnt exist! simple as that. You can try and be an audiophile and videophile all you want but you'll never be happy untill you accept this fact. You can go and buy a 10 grand plasma and its not perfect, Everyone knows these problems exist on these sets and they live with them.[/QUOTE]
Very well written, and all true.

It has reached the point these days, with both industry reviews and user reviews, that the Sony crt sets are the very best. This wasn't so one-sided in years past, but these days Sony stands alone in this category.

[Porcupine2]

> The convergance is correctable in the service menu.

The Sonys have user-adjustable RGB convergence in the Service Menu? (If so, I better try to make room for one). The Toshibas don't have user-adjustable convergence. Which brand CRTs do/don't have user-adjustable RGB convergence?

[Ratman]

[QUOTE=Porcupine2]Which brand CRTs do/don't have user-adjustable RGB convergence?[/QUOTE]

I am not aware of any direct views that have an 'electrical' convergence at a "user or service" level menu.

It's usually performed manually with yoke adjustments and/or the placement of magnets on the yoke.

(I could be wrong...)

[Porcupine2]

My 20" Dell Trinitron computer monitor has menu selectable "electrical" convergence, which I really appreciate. I was really hoping for a while there that the Sonys Wegas did too...I wonder what nick2003 will respond...

A lot of Rear Projection CRTs seem to have auto-convergence...is there some reason that Direct View CRTs can't have them as well? Is it just cost, or is there actually something with the design of RPs that facilitates this?

[Ratman]

Yeah... RPTV's have three individuals CRT's. Direct Views only one CRT.

Computer monitors had this (convergence) capability back in the 70's with IBM 3279 color CRTS. Nothing new there...

RPTV's may have both electrical and mechanical convergence. Sometimes... the electrical convergence is not sufficient.

[nick2003]

Maybe theres not, But i could have swore ive heard people on here discussing it. If there's not its because the convergance on direct view sets are near perfect and Sony feels its not needed, My sets convergance is near perfect and nothing like a RPTV.

[Ratman]

[QUOTE=nick2003]Maybe theres not, But i could have swore ive heard people on here discussing it. .[/QUOTE]

You're right... maybe there's not. It's probably best to relate what you know as opposed to what you've 'heard'.

Most all direct view sets have 'near perfect' convergence. Sony may just have a little better quality control from the factory.

[SurfingMatt27]

Yup, and about the convergance settings there is a convergance settings in the service menu under D-CONV. It only adjusts vertical convergance though, horizontal convergance requires permaloy magnets from a proffessional service Tech.

I did improve my sony by using D-CON mainly the bottom half and not it looks better.

[Porcupine2]

That's still cool. Vertical convergence is better than nothing! Hmm, the only Sony that is small enough to fit my allocated room space is the 27" 4:3 aspect CRT HDTV though (last years' model). Well in any case I will keep a closer eye out for Sonys now that I know this, thanks for the info.

Regarding what I consider decent convergence...to me that means that the red/blue each not be off by more than 1 high-def scanline away from the green in the vertical direction, and not more than 2 'logical HD pixels' off (not screen mask slots, but imaginary pixels coming from an imagined 1920x1080 image) in the horizontal direction....all that only required for the 4:3 aspect central portion of the screen (if convergence goes bad in the extreme sides or corners that is fine, as it is often unavoidable). Is that too strict an expectation? Most of the TVs I've seen lately displaying in stores fail that requirement miserably. Perhaps it could be my location, I dunno. I regularly (not on every unit, maybe half) see red off from the green by around 1 standard-def scanline in the vertical direction even on the Sonys. Most of my Toshibas were spot on with their vertical convergence but were off by 2 SD 'logical pixels' in the horizontal direction even in the center of the screen (the edges would get worse, maybe 5 SD pixels off).

I did notice that in the stores most of the Sonys seemed to have near-perfect convergence in the horizontal direction. Could have just been luck, I dunno. That's good though because that's the unadjustable direction, according to SurfingMatt.

[nick2003]

Thanks for confirming Matt, Knew it had to have it. Mine is perfect besides the edges so i haven't bothered messing with it and neither did the calibrator sense he said he'd half to use magnets and i didn't want to pay for it.

[SurfingMatt27]

The edges on mine too are little off mainly the bottom left edge, it seems the convergance get's messed up when you up contrast so i leave my contrast in the middle setting and it keeps the tv perfectly focused.

As for the corners well i can live with it, i can't notice it in real time anyways only when i use the DVE test patterns i notice it.Converagnce is A-OK with my sony;)

[Porcupine2]

Yesterday I went to a different store (local) selling Sonys, and pretty much all the display models had terrible convergence problems in the horizontal direction as well as vertical. -_-; About 1 SD pixel off horizontally even in the center/best parts, and about 3 or 4 SD pixels off on the left sides of the screen. Terrible. :( I'm a bit skeptical again about people who say they approve of the convergence on their units.

I guess the Toshibas aren't as bad as I thought, regarding convergence. Despite what other people say here I don't see the Sonys doing that much better at it (maybe a little).

The thing that really irks me about these convergence issues, is that I don't see how one can claim a CRT is an HDTV capable of 1920x1080 resolution, when the red is regularly off from the green by about 2 out of 1080 vertical scanlines, or off from the green by about 3 out of 1920 horizontal logical pixels. A CRT that badly aligned is only rigorously putting out 640x540 or so of unpolluted information. In the sides, where the convergence is often off by 10 HD pixels or so, I don't even know what you can call an image like that....

[joebxr]

[QUOTE=Porcupine2]Yesterday I went to a different store (local) selling Sonys, and pretty much all the display models had terrible convergence problems in the horizontal direction as well as vertical. -_-; ....[/QUOTE]

2 posts back you said this
[QUOTE=Porcupine2]I did notice that in the stores most of the Sonys seemed to have near-perfect convergence in the horizontal direction.[/QUOTE]

So is it "near-perfect" or "terrible"???
Where the heck do you live that so many TV's on display are so bad?

[Dearth]

Regarding my previous post I didn't mean to say CRTs are more fragile than LCD or Plasma I was just commenting on how the precision of a CRT and how it is amazing that it even lines up correctly after it is shipped and handled.

I don't think there is a big conspiracy CRTs today look as good as they ever have when you talk about the best of the best. Spend 50k on a Sony professional monitor if you want it perfect. All I meant is TV makers aren't worried about what people think about CRTs anymore. Joe six pack will buy a CRT because it is still cheaper and he isn't even buying an HDTV. All I know is you fit alot more LCD panels in a truck then 34" CRT sets.

Let's face it, Joe Sixpack and Johnny Gadget (the jackass with a high def Plasma that is hooked up to cable with RF connectors or composite) far out number the people after the best picture quality.

[Porcupine2]

joe, that's why in my more recent post I said in a *different* store. It is also possible I remember wrong from my earlier experiences, so my latest experience overrules all. :) I live in Hawaii. Indeed it is possible that CRTs bang up more than normal on the way here, so that is something to consider as well. BTW, most on-line places will not ship televisions to Hawaii.