Has anyone ever claimed to be able to hear HDTV whine?

[Porcupine2]

Can any human out there hear the noise that is emitted by HDTVs? By this I mean the noise the TV itself generates just from being on, not from the speakers. Regular SD CRTs emit a noise of around 16 kHz, which is easily audible on most sets I have met. Usually to my ears the TV noise is the loudest and most noticeable noise of all noises in any TV room, oftentimes louder than the speaker audio.

But CRT HDTVs should emit a noise of around 32 kHz or higher which is supposed to be fairly inaudible. However, any sound pressure waves can cause damage to the human ear if their amplitude is large enough, even if the frequencies are beyond the range of normal human hearing. I suspect my Toshiba 30HF85 was emanating 32 kHz sound waves of EXTREME loudness. I wasn't able to hear a thing coming from my set, but if I had the TV on for more than 1.5 hours I would start to feel dizzy, nauseated, and want to throw up. Also, my ears have been loudly ringing constantly since I first got this set (not ringing at 32 kHz, but just ringing, as if ear-shattering noises had been blasted into them). I never got over this in the 3 weeks I had my 30HF85 (which is gone now, returned). I'm hoping I will recover now that it is gone; hopefully my hearing has not been damaged permanently.

However, all this may also be psychosymatic. -_-; Perhaps the strain of lifting up the TV made me this way, lol.

I was never able to watch a single full-length movie on my Toshiba due to the nauseating effect. I would have to turn off the set and go to sleep before the movie ended. Again, maybe psychosymatic. Or maybe I've caught some kind of sickness recently ^_^;

Dogs are supposed to be able to hear slightly higher frequencies than humans (not much higher, contrary to popular belief). Anyone ever notice their pets display signs of discomfort when an HDTV is turned on? I don't have a dog of my own.

[MrMike6by9]

I used to be able to hear all CRT sets when they were powered up. I'm either not around that many any more or my hearing has deteriorated. No, one does not have the have the hearing of a dog to notice the sound. On the other hand, I remember being driven positively insane (well, almost) by the ultrasonic motion sensors they used in the 70's for alarm systems and to activate traffic lights.

I suspect that if these frequencies bothered a pet, it would leave the room.

It sounds to me that something organic is going on with you. You might want to check with a Doc in case you have an inner ear problem.

YMMV

[Dearth]

As an XBR910 owner I'd probably be nauseated watching the HF85 too....

All joking aside I'd be looking behind your walls for mold before I'd be wondering about my HDTV producing "EXTREME" loudness in the 32kHz range.

Until you figure it out I too am hoping your hearing has not been damaged permanently, why not make a foil hat to block the sound waves? *grin*

[Porcupine2]

Lol. Well, if I made something to block out the (possibly imagined) high frequency noise would that not mean I would not be able to hear my regular speaker audio too?

I need to get DVD-audio/SACD capable as soon as I can so I can test out my hearing better before I get too old and degenerate. Every single one of my speakers has excellent frequency response past 30 kHz (this is my primary criteria I use to select speakers) but I've never been able to test/hear it because I don't yet have a DVD-audio-capable player. :)

Oh well, it's day 2 now since my Toshiba is gone. If the ringing in my ears stops after a week or so that might give me more clue if my TV really was the culprit or not. Or it could be I'm still imagining everything. :)

[kny3twalker]

I need to get DVD-audio/SACD capable as soon as I can so I can test out my hearing better before I get too old and degenerate. Every single one of my speakers has excellent frequency response past 30 kHz (this is my primary criteria I use to select speakers) but I've never been able to test/hear it because I don't yet have a DVD-audio-capable player.

I think you may also need a receiver capable of receiving digital DVD A and SACD and then decoding it if you want the full audio range of sounds, I think that using the analogue audio outputs for DVD A and SACD from the player will not perform much better than CD audio but I may be wrong

[Porcupine2]

Nope you are wrong. But thx for the response anyways. I know much more about audio than I do about video so I'm pretty sure how things work in that world. :)

30 kHz is still a relatively low frequency for cables to reproduce. The DVD-A player simply has to generate those frequencies, that's all. Really cheap amplifiers probably can't reproduce up to 30 kHz so that's an issue too, but pretty much any name brand consumer amplifier can (my Onkyo specifications say to 30 kHz -1 dB, and Harman Kardon up to 100 kHz -1.5 dB).

In my case, I don't have a ton of money so I have to upgrade my equipment one setup at a time. :) The TV is currently being worked on (Toshiba just went back, $800 floating around on credit card, waiting and looking around for stuff, trying to be patient this time). New DVD player (that can play DVD-A and SACD) is probably next in line. :)

[Porcupine2]

Usually only surround sound receivers can take digital input, and I only have stereo receivers so mine can't. Surround Sound receivers also do digital processing and all that for the surround channels so that's why the good ones do. But it has little to do with the audio quality itself, so stereo amps are always analogue I think. Consumer surround sound receivers of decent quality cost around $1000 though so I won't be able to afford one for some time. :( That's why right now I've just got stereo receivers (they still cost $300 to $400 each).

My speakers themselves cost slightly more. Usually the speaker is the bottleneck in reproducing quality sound.

[kny3twalker]

Usually only surround sound receivers can take digital input, and I only have stereo receivers so mine can't. Surround Sound receivers also do digital processing and all that for the surround channels so that's why the good ones do. But it has little to do with the audio quality itself, so stereo amps are always analogue I think. Consumer surround sound receivers of decent quality cost around $1000 though so I won't be able to afford one for some time. That's why right now I've just got stereo receivers (they still cost $300 to $400 each).

My speakers themselves cost slightly more. Usually the speaker is the bottleneck in reproducing quality sound.

I do not think spdif will pass DVD A or SACD, so you would need firewire I believe
and then most receivers will not decode DVD A and SACD so even if spdif will pass it, you will need a receiver which can decode it

not sure how you are planning to integrate DVD A and SACD into a stereo receiver setup

also I believe part of the issue with DVD player that decode DVD A and SACD which relates back to my previous comment, is the quality of the DACs
and then you would need speakers capable of such output
but you have already said that yours are up-to-spec there

not really sure about all this above, but I know there are alot of things holding people back from getting the full quality of DVD A and SACD much less the people even considering investing in these new techs

[Porcupine2]

Well, I'll make sure to get a DVD-A player with a good quality DAC, I agree it is definitely a must.

Oh yeah you're right, most receivers don't know how to decode DVD-A or SACD digital (actually there is no decoding to be done as the information is not compressed, but I'm not sure they are even made to accept it through digital inputs).

My understanding is that DVD-A and SACD are simply sent through with analog cables. That's usually fine because a good quality DVD player that can play DVD-A and SACD will also have a good DAC and do what's necessary to get high quality DVD-A out.

Anyway, I could be wrong about these things, but I'll find out in the future I guess.

[kny3twalker]

Oh yeah you're right, most receivers don't know how to decode DVD-A or SACD digital (actually there is no decoding to be done as the information is not compressed, but I'm not sure they are even made to accept it through digital inputs).

as I said you would need a receiver with iLink or Denon Link, there maybe other options
but its just firewire

then otherwise you would need an analogue multi-channel input on your receiver, which it does not sound like your receiver has, if its a stereo receiver

not sure about compression, but I would think there would have to be some compression to convert the analogue music to digital format

therefore it would need to be decoded

spdif optical or coaxial cannot pass DVD A or SACD though as I said before
at least not down one cable

My understanding is that DVD-A and SACD are simply sent through with analog cables. That's usually fine because a good quality DVD player that can play DVD-A and SACD will also have a good DAC and do what's necessary to get high quality DVD-A out.

as I understand it, unless its a high end DVD player like a Denon 5910 usually the DVD A and SACD performance suffers
usually because at lower price points, they are trying to put as high quality of video scalers as possible and probably figure the player will simply output DD and DTS over spdif

[soloist3]

You could probably build a device that would elimate the ~31.2Khz sound coming from the flyback transformer in the TV. You could either find out the exact frequency of the TV's horizontal scan rate or sample it with a digital recorder that has a sampling frequency of at least 96Khz; remember the Nyquist theory, 96Khz will yield fidelity up to 48Khz. Then you would have to build an oscillator capable of that frequency, you would probably have to use a small piezo horn to get a frequency that high, then you would need to experiment with different phase orientations to cancel out the flyback noise (yes, it can be done without having any noticeable difference in sound quality from your speakers). Testing your ears with high end digital audio formats would probably work (again, as long as your converters can sample at at least 96Khz). Btw, that is probably why most DVD players that can play DVD audio or SACD send over analog; 24 bit resolution aside, I do not think that most receivers can sync to 96/192Khz, analog would ensure the best compatibility and quality (because at least the manufacturer knows the audio DAC will be good enough, and at least capable of, doing DVD audio or SACD. I could be wrong though, I stopped caring about consumer audio long ago (pretty much ever since manufacturers starting phasing out discrete power amplifiers). Considering how much money you would spend in equipment to reproduce those supersonic frequencies you could just get a phonograph (most phonographs and other true analog sources are full range), though keep in mind you still need speakers and amplifiers that can do it (except for a non amplified phonograph)