Buying a Pioneer from this vendor...

[thepawnshop]

And I need to know if the warranty will be valid. The price was incredible and they claimed the item was in stock. I checked them out on resellerratings as well as several other locations, not to mention I have bought from them before and all reports/past experiences were very favorable, but I just need to know of other folks experience from this forum that have purchased from them. I did a search and the only info I could find was quite dated. I do know they are on Pioneers website as an actual authorized dealer as Beach Trading Company, but they ARE NOT listed as an authorized internet reseller. The ad clearly states that they offer new in the box units, no refurb with 1 year usa warranty...I seriously doubt I will need the warranty, but I dont want to have a multi-thousand dollar bad lesson. I am in love with this TV which is the PDP4360HD and I can hardly wait to get it...but I will cancel the order if it could end up being a bad deal in the end.

Thank you in advance to any Beach Camera/Pioneer buyers who can weigh in on my question!

[kidziti]

My experience is that USA Warranty is just that. It is not a Manufacturer's Factory Warranty, and those are the words you need to look for. I looked at Pioneer's site and you are correct - no Beach Camera or Beach Trading Company is listed as an authorized internet dealer for plasmas. There is absolutely no doubt they are NOT authorized, and you will NOT get a warranty from Pioneer if you purchase from Beach. Pioneer is very strict about authorized sales when it comes to warranty work. Any remaining doubts can be cleared up by calling Pioneer Electronics, but they will tell you the same thing.

If the price at Beach is just too darned good, I'd shop it around with an authorized dealer and see what you can get. "Seriously doubting" one would need a warranty is quite a gamble with something as sophisticated, fragile and expensive as a plasma.

[thepawnshop]

I did send an email to Pioneer shortly after placing the order as well as another to Beach. Since it was the weekend, if I have not heard back from anyone by the end of the day MOnday, I will be calling both of them.

Beach IS an authorized reseller...perhaps it may just be the WAY the tv is ordered. If I call them and place the order on teh phone, thus not using them as an internet reseller, then I don't see why the Pioneer warranty would not be in effect. Any legal eagle opinions would be greatly appreciated.

You can see that Beach is an authorized reseller by going to the Pioneer site nad putting in their zip code which brings up Beach Trading at teh same address.

Thanks Again!

[westa6969]

Sorry, but I don't see Beach on this list? (A good thing about this list is it provides a great source of legitimate internet dealers for those that haven't bought on-line before.)

http://www.pioneerusa.com/pna/article/two/0,,2076_83644739_277297187,00.html

Perhaps Beach is also a B&M and your seeing a zip code search to find a B&M as common sense reasoning would be that nobody would need a zip code to find an internet dealer as they are meaningless unless one is avoiding state tax.

Not trying to be critical just realize they wouldn't place a zip code finder unless you were looking for a B&M Store and Pio is strict on it's warranty support. I wish to hell I could buy a 1410 Elite on-line and get warranty support as many sell it but what a gamble that would be hoping nothing is wrong and then winding up with a $9K black mirror if something does.

Then the final question is: Can a phone order to the B&M version (as some are both) of the Internet Dealer be considered "In-Store"? That's the question we really need answered. How in the world would the manufacturer know whether you were physically in the store to make the purchase? I would guess there are specifics on these conditions spelled out on the authorized dealer terms. TVA you are both - can they be done via phone as "In-Store"?:)

[thepawnshop]

Thank you sir, for the excellent response. They are listed as a B&M on the Pioneer site...just not as an internet reseller. I am not totally opposed to paying retail, though the substantial savings is quite appealing. The bottom line is theat I MUST have a factory warranty. I have researched teh heck out of this company and by all accounts, they are very reputable.

I agree with your final assesment...if a phone order constitutes sufficient information to keep this from being a purchase from a non listed internet vendor, then the deal is done...and I will have saved upwards of 1k. Otherwise, I will bite the bullet and go to BB and pay....retail...OUCH!

Thank you again and please, keep the opinions coming!

[kidziti]

The essential difference here is that Beach appears to be doing business as two different entities under one umbrella - the internet store Beach Camera (BC) and the Brick and Mortar store Beach Trading Company (BTC). When I look up BC with a zip code to their Green Brook, NJ store (zip 08812), it lists it as BTC and authorized. If I look up BC under internet dealers, it is not listed. It likely has something to do with how the internet merchandise is procured and distributed (Pioneer has very strict compliance requirements for authorized dealers). I don't think it unreasonable to assume that the internet division of the company is not authorized and the B&M store is. The real proof will come when you shop BC's internet price with BTC. If BTC does not honor it or won't come close to meeting it, it should tell you that there truly is a marketing difference between the two. The overhead of meeting authorization requirements may add significantly to the cost of the merchandise.

All this does not change the bottom line. BC is not authorized. I've been through a similar ordeal with Pioneer's Elite brand (Elite products are even tougher on authorized merchandise by the way, and don't even allow internet distribution). I had a deposit on an Elite with a self-professed authorized B&M store. I did not see them listed, however, when I punched their zip into Pio's site. I challenged them on that, and they told me they were indeed authorized through an authorized distributership. I took this information through several levels at Pioneer's customer service, and even to a senior manager in Long Beach (Pio's HQ). What I was told was unambiguous: if the seller is not listed, they are not authorized - period. Pioneer was adamant about this point, and said their information source on authorized dealers is precisely what ours is - the online list. When I returned to the store with the information from Pioneer, the salesperson at first denied it 'til he was almost blue, but eventually a shadier side of how he was getting around the rules emerged (story for another post). I got my deposit back and went with Best Buy/Magnolia instead.

[D-Nice]

If BTC is an authorized Pioneer dealer and you call BTC (Beach Camera) to place an order, your warranty is valid. If you purchase the plasma online @ Beach Camera's website, your warranty is null and void.

[RandyWalters]

[QUOTE=D-Nice]If BTC is an authorized Pioneer dealer and you call BTC (Beach Camera) to place an order, your warranty is valid. If you purchase the plasma online @ Beach Camera's website, your warranty is null and void.[/QUOTE]It would be nice if instead of being able to add the TV to your Cart and purchasing it over the web, they block the transaction and instruct you to call their toll-free-number and order it verbally from a telephone salesman. That way they ensure that the warranty is honored and that their customer is protected.

[thepawnshop]

Thanks for all the help. I will have an answer from both entities tomorrow and will post the outcome here for all to know. As I have said, Beach is reputable, so I hope all ends well. I do so look forward to learning as much as possible form this forum...particularly th ededicated Pio set up thread!

Thanks again!

[D-Nice]

[QUOTE=RandyWalters]It would be nice if instead of being able to add the TV to your Cart and purchasing it over the web, they block the transaction and instruct you to call their toll-free-number and order it verbally from a telephone salesman. That way they ensure that the warranty is honored and that their customer is protected.[/QUOTE]

Yep, and that is what the Pioneer "authorized" internet dealers do.

[NYR]

I purchased the Pioneer PDP-4360HD from Beach Camera on the 20th (they said it was the last one they had). It was a great price with no tax and free shipping to NYC. It was shipped on Wed and delivered on Monday Feb 27 by Manna Services who specialize in Plasma display shipping. It was brand new in the box and I couldn't be happier. The TV is amazing and I would highly recommend Beach Camera.

[zgeneral]

Do yourself a favor and only buy things like this from Costco.

[Erik_HTB]

Let me fill you in on how these jerkoffs operate and mabey someday people will stop using them or open their eyes a little:

They take their storefront (whatever that may be, in this case the Beach Trading Company) and use it to become authorized dealers for protected lines. Sometimes these stores or showrooms are nothing but fronts and are rarely open. The factory reps come in and say "oh, looks like you have a store here" and they take the dealers opening order and a check. Then they leave and never look back. Here come 35 plasmas on a big truck. BEEP BEEP BEEP.

The "dealer" now uses his store and his "factory authorized" access to equipment to funnel product to his unauthorized, on-line business(s). The serial numbers are usually changed and cataloged. The product is shipped out the back door to people on the internet looking for deals. Which they get, because some of these guys are happy getting 5% over sheet. Some of these lines aren't even allowed to be drop shipped by authorized dealers to buyers, but off they go. They will have some poor gulible employees in the back processing orders and answering the phones, all coached in what to say when people start asking questions. The owner spends most of his time on the phone lying to customers that really pry in order to cover up his operation.

They work together as well, so he might ship off 10 plasmas to one of his other internet whore buddies who got caught and cut off, but still has orders to fill. All the while the factory rep is happy as can be because somehow this little guy is doing $100k a month in plasma sales out of his tiny little store. AMAZING.

"USA WARRANTY" is a fake warranty company created by the internet whore in order to trick people into thinking they are getting a "Factory Warranty". In reality it isn't much of a warranty at all. But hey you got your "USA WARRANTY", whatever it may be. Maybe he did go to the trouble of having an actual warranty service back it, but chances are it's not as good as the factory warranty.

You probably received a notice with your precious plasma saying that in the event of a warranty issue, DO NOT contact the factory. IMMEDIATELY contact them and they will arrange shipment back to their store so they can have the "USA WARRANTY" take care of it for you, which simply means going back to his catalogue of serial numbers he took off for XYZ plasma that you bought, and sticking it back on the unit before he personally sends it to the repair shop of his choosing to have it fixed for free under the factory warranty. You in the meantime are left with what feels like a huge gaping hole in your backside as you wonder when exactly your rather large investment will be showing back up at your house. But you really don't have a clue where it is. If you are lucky you'll actually see it again working properly. Sometimes you might actually get a brand new one sent to you, and the one you sent back to get fixed will be wholesaled on e-bay or something after the repair is done. Depends on what he has in stock and how much time he feels like spending with your problem.

I'm not saying that all of these things happened to you, or that this is absolutlely what they are doing, but this sounds like the exact type of "dealer" that I despise. And I can almost guarantee that this is what is going on. Are you getting a new in the box plasma? Sure. But I would call the factory and have them verify the serial number on your unit. The main difference would be that if you buy a bad product from an authorized dealer, or an authorized dealer pulls some crap w/ you, the factory will step in and take care of you or direct you to another dealer that will. When you get one from one of these unauthorized guys, you are 100% on your own. Some people don't care and are willing to take their chances.

The worst part is when the factory reps know whats going on but turn a blind eye because they are making serious cash off these guys because of the volume.

I have seen all this with my own 2 eyes, along with having how it works explained to me in detail from one of the biggest Internet scumbags I have ever met in my life, and the funny part is that he told me he was actually one of the better ones. He screwed major manufacturers over left and right, just to shut down, move, open up new lines and change his name and his website a little. I hope he gets hit by a bus someday actually. Long story.

It hurts everyone, especially the businesses that actually support the lines. This happens with all protected lines of electronics, not just plasmas.

ASK QUESTIONS PEOPLE. THEY DON"T CARE ABOUT YOU OR YOUR PLASMA.

Good luck

[NYR]

[QUOTE=Erik_HTB]You probably received a notice with your precious plasma saying that in the event of a warranty issue, DO NOT contact the factory. IMMEDIATELY contact them and they will arrange shipment back to their store so they can have the "USA WARRANTY" take care of it for you, which simply means going back to his catalogue of serial numbers he took off for XYZ plasma that you bought, and sticking it back on the unit before he personally sends it to the repair shop of his choosing to have it fixed for free under the factory warranty.[/QUOTE]

I'm not saying you aren't correct, but I didn't receive any notices like you described and I figured the Store was legit based on the over 25,000 mostly positive (96%) reviews since 2000 on Bizrate and similar positive reviews (although not nearly 25k) at ResellerRatings.

When you factor in tax and shipping costs from a B&M shop like J&R, PC Richards, BB or CC (here in NYC) the $1k in savings was worth the risk for me.

Like I said, I'm happy with my decision, but others may think it's too risky and are willing to pay for more security.

[Erik_HTB]

Yeah, I wasn't saying that this was exactly what happened to you, but more a warning to others who aren't aware of the type of people who hide behind computers, and the importance of buying from factory authorized dealers and asking LOTS of questions. Protect your investment by being a smart buyer.

I would still get the serial # checked out. Just for kicks.

[cammy]

[QUOTE=westa6969]Sorry, but I don't see Beach on this list? (A good thing about this list is it provides a great source of legitimate internet dealers for those that haven't bought on-line before.)

http://www.pioneerusa.com/pna/article/two/0,,2076_83644739_277297187,00.html

Perhaps Beach is also a B&M and your seeing a zip code search to find a B&M as common sense reasoning would be that nobody would need a zip code to find an internet dealer as they are meaningless unless one is avoiding state tax.

Not trying to be critical just realize they wouldn't place a zip code finder unless you were looking for a B&M Store and Pio is strict on it's warranty support. I wish to hell I could buy a 1410 Elite on-line and get warranty support as many sell it but what a gamble that would be hoping nothing is wrong and then winding up with a $9K black mirror if something does.

Then the final question is: Can a phone order to the B&M version (as some are both) of the Internet Dealer be considered "In-Store"? That's the question we really need answered. How in the world would the manufacturer know whether you were physically in the store to make the purchase? I would guess there are specifics on these conditions spelled out on the authorized dealer terms. TVA you are both - can they be done via phone as "In-Store"?:)[/QUOTE]

I would have to agree with westa6969 on this subject. They are authorized for their store front, however, not online. The plasma might ship with a warranty inside the package, yet, it doesnt mean its going to be in place if you purchase it online. I know my company is an authorized dealer, but Pioneer is very strict on their products. Its like if we had the "elite" line, we would not sell it online. It would only be a pick up locally item. No one can sell that online. This company would be breaking their agreement with Pioneerusa if they are to sell it online (after all, they are not listed on pioneerusa.com as an auth. online dealer..). At this price range, is this enough of a gamble for you incase you dont get the warranty?
Just some thoughts...

Cheers,
Cambryn
Best of luck on your search ;)

P.s. as for the "in store purchase" manufactures are very strict. Even with our store front we have select product brands that we can not sell online, but only do a pick up in our store front, due to the manufactures requirements and regulations as a dealer of their line. If this store wants to take advantage of shipping a product from their location to a few states away and possibly run the risk of loosing the line/products altogether, then good luck to them. Personally, I know I (or the company) would not want to take the risk of not being able to sell the products at all if you get caught, its not right. Just my thoughts on it... ;)

[Mr. Pelham]

Good information from Cammy and others here. I think I would have waited to hear from Pioneer, before I risked purchasing a item of this price, with a possible voided warranty. I hope everything works out ok for you thepawnshop.