iPod Hi-Fi

[toofargone]

Just announced:


engadget: 10:31am PT - Your stereo's really ready to move to an iPod based stereo if we can get the quality up. ... Three driver system... we have a dock right on top, you can plug in any iPod we've ever shipped wit a dock connector.

10:34am PT - It even has an auxiliary input in the back so you can plug your shuffle in. Let's look inside... we've integrated the electronics and the power supply in there, there's no power brick. You can power this off D size batteries, you can take it out the cabana or the pool, great sound wherever you are. We have two 80mm mid range drivers in sealed acoustic suspension. We have a 130mm dual voice coil woofer with a ported bass reflex design, we get great bass on this thing that doesn't distort when you crank it up. It has a sealed resin enclosure that doesn't vibrate. ... one of the things's we've done is putt a speaker option in the iPod menu. Update's already out, you can set the tone control, boost the treble or the bass.

10:35am PT - You can have the screen go black and and just display the album art. Great for newer iPods. (GOING OVER FEATURES) We think we can deliver home stereo quality for the first time in the iPod ecosystem. How much does this cost? SHOWING PRODUCTS OVER 1000 We're delivering audio quality absolutely competitively with these products, we're gonna price it at $349. It goes on sale... today.

[vishal]

More details here:
http://www.apple.com/ipodhifi/

[eklinger]

whippy do!

Wonder if they worked with bose on it? Probably should of called the "iPod Hi-Fi Wave"

Ed

[LeeLee]

At least the Bose unit came with a CD player.

This is $350 for amplified speakers.

Edit: Wanted to add that the concept is better than those ipod docking sound systems that have come before it. These things are not meant to be that portable yet those other docking sound systems use tiny little aluminum drivers. And their shapes are rather odd, making them less portable than even the iPod Hi-Fi's larger but rectangular design. I dig the grab handles. The 3" wide range drivers have their own sealed chambers and the 5" DVC woofer has a ported enclosure to work with. 56 to 16K frequency response sounds perfect for its intended use. And the larger drivers should sound much better than the little aluminum ones.

Expensive, yes, but ultimately a well thought out product that just goes to show that the other manufacturers are merely trying too hard to "design like Apple".

[jedi.night]

It actually does look like a nice speaker for the Ipod....but the price....come on....

$150.00 and under would do the trick....but $350.00. Yikes....

[Summa]

I thought it was interesting until I read that Steve Jobbs said something like, "I'm an audiophile. I've owned audio systems costing thousands of dollars. But I'm thinking of giving all that up and just using this."

PLEASE!!!!

Come out with a neat little speaker for the iPod....GREAT....hell, I'm even going to buy an iPod one of these days myself....but don't insult my intelligence and tell me that your little speaker is going to outgun my home audio rig. That's just plain stupid.

[Crimguy]

Yup. All audiophiles are going for boxes with frequency responses like that:

Frequency response: 53Hz to 16kHz ± 3 dB

[fastbike]

[QUOTE=jedi.night]It actually does look like a nice speaker for the Ipod....but the price....come on....

$150.00 and under would do the trick....but $350.00. Yikes....[/QUOTE]

So you've never paid $350 for a speaker? 53 - 16k +/- 3 db is better than a lot of center channel or bookshelf speakers that folks around here rave about.

There are some well reviewed systems at this price point (monitor Audio, Klipsch iFi, Klipsch iGroove), so it look like Apple is, yet again, market savvy. It's also a very good solution for a room where you want some occasional music but not another system or to be shackled to headphones.

[Tim916]

I wonder if you can get it with a white grille?

[CEN7272]

The specs aren't really that bad. My first response when I looked at the details, was that it would be a great add-on for my iPod and I was telling some of my friends that it looked like a winner. Then my one buddy says that he thinks he'll get rid of his other speakers and just use this (NOTE: he's a very casual listener) I told him that I didn't think that would be reasonable. Sure its good for a bedroom, office or just a neat stand alone iPod player but a replacement? He told me that the iPod Hi-Fi was being marketed as a complete system. Then I read some quotes from press releases and from Apple's site and sure enough, they're pawning this off as "audiophile" grade. What the heck is Apple thinking. I sure hope people don't just throw their old speakers away and run to the nearest Apple store...I think they'll be greatly disappointed.

[erics0531]

$350? What a joke.

My 20GB Rio Karma has lossless (FLAC) file support and came with a docking station with RCA jacks out included so I can listen to it through my real speakers.

[rlindo]

yay...another apple product that is overpriced and will be overhyped. I've compared a handful of diff mp3 players and the ipod is the worst of the bunch. yeah it looks all ncie and crap but the sound quality to me was nothing special.

Oh and I am sick of mp3 players basically being known as "ipods" now.

[mukaidaf]

[QUOTE=erics0531]$350? What a joke.

My 20GB Rio Karma has lossless (FLAC) file support and came with a docking station with RCA jacks out included so I can listen to it through my real speakers.[/QUOTE]


i love my Rio Karma too (even when i have to whack the thing to unstick the harddrive head). unfortunately, the iPod is sexy. Rio is not. I'm babying my Karma as long as i can (unless the harddrive sticks again :) ).

[astrallite]

For $200 you can get a Klipsch iFi with the iPod dock. And really, it doesn't take any more space (you can hide the subwoofer).

[[LMS]007]

and how is this better than the cheaper klipsch ifi?

[tweeterex]

An Escient or Kaliedescape run through a whole hose audio system, Cretron controlled, c'mon, play with the big boy toys!

[jedi.night]

[QUOTE=fastbike]So you've never paid $350 for a speaker? 53 - 16k +/- 3 db is better than a lot of center channel or bookshelf speakers that folks around here rave about.

There are some well reviewed systems at this price point (monitor Audio, Klipsch iFi, Klipsch iGroove), so it look like Apple is, yet again, market savvy. It's also a very good solution for a room where you want some occasional music but not another system or to be shackled to headphones.[/QUOTE]


Sure I have...but not for one use only. I guess your a fan of the Bose wave radio (market savvy and a ridiculous price) and a great solution if you don't know good sound.


It's more expensive than the IPOD it'self. It's a friggen center channel that runs on batteries.

[scorch123]

[QUOTE=Summa]I thought it was interesting until I read that Steve Jobbs said something like, "I'm an audiophile. I've owned audio systems costing thousands of dollars. But I'm thinking of giving all that up and just using this."

PLEASE!!!!

Come out with a neat little speaker for the iPod....GREAT....hell, I'm even going to buy an iPod one of these days myself....but don't insult my intelligence and tell me that your little speaker is going to outgun my home audio rig. That's just plain stupid.[/QUOTE]

Summa,

If your quote of Steve Jobs is accurate, then he is not saying that iPod is "better than", say, a Wilson audio setup (which WAS set up along with a Bosendorfer piano in the first Macintosh design building).

Saying you are "thinking about giving it all up" and using an iPod hifi can be seen as a completely different statement (more of a compromise of quality for convenience).

The iPod hifi is targeted for folks who own iPods and want a quick "plug and play" experience. No need to get worked up over a product you won't buy, correct?

- Steve O.

[warpdrive]

[QUOTE=erics0531]$350? What a joke.

My 20GB Rio Karma has lossless (FLAC) file support and came with a docking station with RCA jacks out included so I can listen to it through my real speakers.[/QUOTE]

The iPod has line out support. And there is nothing to stop one from connecting it to real speakers either. The line out sounds VERY good, and you can always use Apple Lossless also.

This is a portable speaker. If one already has a system, you would not buy this device. If you don't have a speaker system or want a decent one that is **easily** transportable, this might be a good compromise product for those who don't want a entire system.

I think the price is a bit high, but the specs aren't that bad. Most budget bookshelf speakers will be comparable( -3dB at 53 Hz). It looks like they paid attention to the cabinet rigidity just like a decent set of bookshelf speakers.

[warpdrive]

[QUOTE='[LMS]007']and how is this better than the cheaper klipsch ifi?[/QUOTE]

The iFi is a huge setup. Too many pieces to transport if you want something transportable. Clearly, Apple is catering to those who want a slim but decent setup. The thing has handles built into the speaker.

Also, the Apple one has a Wolfsen DAC built in which would allow one to use it with other digital sources.

[Summa]

Scorch: I hear what you are saying, but I'm taking Steve at his word that he's an 'audiophile'. That term indicates one who strives to obtain the best means of accurate sound reproduction, yes? That flies in the face of his wanting to exchange it for his new iPod speaker. If he had never identified himself as such, I wouldn't take issue with it.

[Nuance]

[QUOTE=scorch123]Summa,

If your quote of Steve Jobs is accurate, then he is not saying that iPod is "better than", say, a Wilson audio setup (which WAS set up along with a Bosendorfer piano in the first Macintosh design building).
- Steve O.[/QUOTE]

Honestly, I wouldn't be surpised if the i-pod hi-fi did sound better than anything from Wilson Audio. Wilson makes horribley inaccurate speakers! Just my opinion of course. :D

[Clepto]

[QUOTE=Summa]Scorch: I hear what you are saying, but I'm taking Steve at his word that he's an 'audiophile'. That term indicates one who strives to obtain the best means of accurate sound reproduction, yes? That flies in the face of his wanting to exchange it for his new iPod speaker. If he had never identified himself as such, I wouldn't take issue with it.[/QUOTE]

You do realize he's trying to SELL his product... While he has a $100,000 set of stereo speakers at home, he'll probably have the Hi-Fi in his office /:

[LeeLee]

I can *DEFINITELY* see myself buying one of these for my wife.

She is not an audiophile, but I don't want to give her a crappy little boom box. The iPod Hi-Fi has just about the perfect blend of sound quality, portability, ease of use, and style. I can think of a few places around my house where I could plop one down and enjoy using it. I just wish it didn't cost so much, but this is from Apple so what would you expect...

[canyonblue737]

They look nice except for the location of the iPod... they should have somehow not had the iPod sticking out like a sore thumb on top like that. Also for the price and being Apple I would have hoped it would have been able to also receive music via iTunes and a wireless network but it is what it is.

[Schadenfreude]

The line out sounds VERY good, and you can always use Apple Lossless also.


No, it doesn't , or at least not in comparison to other gear designed as standard components for home use.

Does anyone know what speakers Jobs uses at home?

[warpdrive]

[QUOTE=Schadenfreude]No, it doesn't , or at least not in comparison to other gear designed as standard components for home use.
[/QUOTE]

Yes, it does.

And I encourage people to try it for themselves if they don't believe me. Going through the line-out is completely different from using the headphone out. The headphone amp is junk, but the line-out is clean and refined. No EQ + line-out + Apple Lossless -> very good source. If you tried it and honestly think it still sounds bad, fine, but I think most people, even those that claim to be audiophiles will find a lot to like about such a setup. It's no high end CD player, but it does very well (again Apple LossLess is the operative word here)

There is a lot of trash talk about how the iPod sounds bad. But most people haven't tried this combo, and/or are going by hearsay.

[Schadenfreude]

If you tried it and honestly think it still sounds bad, fine, but most people, even those that claim to be audiophiles will find a lot to like about such a setup.


Wait a minute, I didn't say "bad", I just disagreed with you in that it sounds "VERY good" , it doesn't sound very good to me and many others, it is certainly acceptable, but I wouldn't have kept a portable sony walkman disc player in my component system, either, with line out (yes some had them) or even their digital outputs (though much better), and that used NO compression, and MOST people , due to the places they're getting downloads, are using 128 compression on average, and then it's worse.

I have had the unique opportunity to hear a decent audio system with multiple inputs switch between the same somg in various formats/rates and through differant gear, it was eye-opening.

[warpdrive]

I am talking about LOSSLESS encoded songs on the iPod. Apple Lossless is the same quality as UNCOMPRESSED. It's not Lossy. Have you tried this? If not, I would suggest you run it against your portable CD player again. The results may surprise you

This is my observed results. I would say the iPod is actually capable of better sound than the average portable CD player when run this way. For some reason, the average portable CD player sounds pretty bad...not sure why that is, but they must be using some kind of circuit/algorithm to get the extend the battery life which degrades the quality.

Again, the iPod Line Out is VERY good. When using high quality encoded source material (e,g Apple Lossless), it will compare favourably to a standalone CD source (realize I am talking about the average CD/DVD player, not some exotic CD transport or high end audiophile player)

Also, there are various reviews by respectable hi-fi magazines that allude to the same thing.

I also went to demos where Wilson Audio was using the iPod as a source for the first song. I knew it was coming so I paid attention to how the iPod sounded versus their high end transport playing the same song.

[scorch123]

[QUOTE=Schadenfreude]
Does anyone know what speakers Jobs uses at home?[/QUOTE]

Schadenfreude,

That's an excellent question. I wouldn't mind ordering an iPod hifi, and coming over to Steve Job's home and ask if he's still considering a fair trade :)

- Steve O.

[Summa]

[QUOTE=Clepto]You do realize he's trying to SELL his product... While he has a $100,000 set of stereo speakers at home, he'll probably have the Hi-Fi in his office /:[/QUOTE]

Why would he want to try and sell his product?

[Schadenfreude]

I am talking about LOSSLESS encoded songs on the iPod. Apple Lossless is the same quality as UNCOMPRESSED. It's not Lossy. Have you tried this?

Yes, I am in the buisness AND i'M RELATIVELY CERTAIN THAT OUR blind and level matched comparison through good audio equipment was quite revealing of what the differances are (have YOU done such a carefull test?). I DO use FLAC for most of my storage, I was talking about the LINE LEVEL OUTPUT characteristics, and mentioning that in ADDITION to that not sounding "VERY good" (again NOT BAD) , MOST people are not getting their downloads in LOSSLESS FORMATS.

You are entitled to your opinions, just don't try to insinuate that I am wrong in MY carefull assesments.

[warpdrive]

Who cares what other people are downloading? I am talking about what the iPod is *capable* of, not the average user. I'm talking about how the iPod fares as a critical listening component in a hifi system.

You also haven't answered the question. Did you use the Apple with Line Out and Apple Lossless in YOUR tests? Not FLAC encoding, not iRiver, not Creative. Some other players (notably the iRiver H10 for example) don't have line outputs that are as good sounding as the iPod.

And yes, I have done my own careful listening tests. Enough for me to proclaim that the iPod is excellent sounding portable source component.

[canyonblue737]

[QUOTE=warpdrive]Who cares what other people are downloading? I am talking about what the iPod is *capable* of, not the average user. I'm talking about how the iPod fares as a critical listening component in a hifi system.

You also haven't answered the question. Did you use the Apple with Line Out and Apple Lossless in YOUR tests? Not FLAC encoding, not iRiver, not Creative.

And yes, I have done my own careful listening tests. Enough for me to proclaim that the iPod is excellent sounding portable source component.[/QUOTE]

But it could sound so much better... using just MP3s or AACs the $69 iPod shuffle KILLS the iPod 5G or iPod nano in sound quality so it begs the question... why is Apple cheaping out in the internals of its flagship iPods?

[warpdrive]

[QUOTE=canyonblue737]But it could sound so much better... using just MP3s or AACs the $69 iPod shuffle KILLS the iPod 5G or iPod nano in sound quality so it begs the question... why is Apple cheaping out in the internals of its flagship iPods?[/QUOTE]

Not if you use LINE OUT. The difference you are talking about only applies to headphone listening, not line output listening through a stereo.

The Line Out bypasses the Headphone circuit. The headphone amp is what kills the sound quality on the Nano/5G because of bass dropoff.

So if you take a Nano and use the dock, it will outperform the Shuffle. The Shuffle only outperforms the others when you connect a low impedance headphone to it.

[Tnilsson]

Ok, so a bit off topic since I won't buy this product, but what is the best player and mode to store your music in?

I have been thinking of getting something like the 60 GB Ipod for some time since it seems like it will hold several hundred CDs in a decent audio format that could be played back over decent speakers and still sound good. Any recommendations? I am dizzy with all the talk I have seen about lossless, ACC, FLAC, etc.

[warpdrive]

[QUOTE=Tnilsson]Ok, so a bit off topic since I won't buy this product, but what is the best player and mode to store your music in?

I have been thinking of getting something like the 60 GB Ipod for some time since it seems like it will hold several hundred CDs in a decent audio format that could be played back over decent speakers and still sound good. Any recommendations? I am dizzy with all the talk I have seen about lossless, ACC, FLAC, etc.[/QUOTE]

You'll be as well off with the iPod as much as anything else. A lot of people might come and tell you otherwise, but the differences are exaggerated IMHO.

Choose as high of a bitrate as you can take. Apple Lossless is by far the superior format but you'll eat up disk space and battery life fast, as an alternative, you'll do pretty well with 224 to 320kbps AAC. The knock against AAC is that it's Apple specific, so you are locked into Apple. Otherwise, use a LAME encoder to rip to MP3.

Also, buy an Apple Dock, and connect it up the stereo. As you don't want to use the headphone jack circuit which is known to have bass rolloff.

[Schadenfreude]

You also haven't answered the question. Did you use the Apple with Line Out and Apple Lossless in YOUR tests?

Yes, we did, I thought I had stated that ,or that it should have been obvious as we were talking specifically about line out on the Ipod with apple lossless.

that the iPod is excellent sounding portable source component.

Agreed, amongst portables, it is great.

Not quite the quality of a digital out of a sony discman, but good none the less.

[fastbike]

[QUOTE='[LMS]007']and how is this better than the cheaper klipsch ifi?[/QUOTE]

Unlikely to be better than the iFi. The iFi has some pretty serious specs. Also, the iFi is $400. Refurbs are avail for $180. Biggest issue for iFi is that you have sats/sub to deal with.

[fastbike]

[QUOTE=jedi.night] I guess your a fan of the Bose wave radio (market savvy and a ridiculous price) and a great solution if you don't know good sound.

QUOTE]

Not hardly a Bose fan. Foolish assumption on your part.

Just an opinion that the HiFi isn't that bad of a solution for a clean simple setup.

[warpdrive]

[QUOTE=Schadenfreude]Yes, we did, I thought I had stated that ,or that it should have been obvious as we were talking specifically about line out on the Ipod with apple lossless.
[/QUOTE]

No problem. Just trying to make sure we are on the same page.

[sethwas]

http://www.sharperimage.com/us/en/catalog/categoryview.jhtml?catid=676889423&pcatid=2&clpos=1

Seth

[Mr. Brownstone]

[QUOTE=erics0531]$350? What a joke.

My 20GB Rio Karma has lossless (FLAC) file support and came with a docking station with RCA jacks out included so I can listen to it through my real speakers.[/QUOTE]Rio was a dismal failure and folded up about six months ago . . .

[filecat13]

The iPod and the iPod Hi-Fi are products. Steve is a salesman. I don't know why this is a surprise to anyone.

If you don't like Apple, or you don't like the marketing, or you can't afford it, or you think it's a bad value, or you think Steve's a shameless shill, then just ignore it.

The market will decide, and so far it seems to be going Apple's way, regardless of the whining, complaining, and quasi-comparative pseudoscientific baloney used to say one thing is better than another.

Also, as a general rule if one is expecting me to believe one conducted a controlled study, yet he or she can't write correctly or use a spell checker, I'm doubting that his or her scientific method is of any better quality than the reporting of it.

In the strictest sense of audiophile meaning "lover of sound" these products are just that. At the same time, it appears Steve succeeded in getting all this free branding and impressions on sites like this as the products are talked about. My impression is that he knows the "science" of marketing better than most of us know the science of sound.

Do you think he used the audiophile angle simply to overstate his case, or did he know that true audiophiles (whomever they are) would get their tights in a twist and generate all kinds of buzz for the product?

[laststarfighter]

something new!!
http://www.miragespeakers.com/v2/product_page.php?open=lines&subid=872&id=873
http://www.miragespeakers.com/v2/thumbs/m1-550-OmniVibe-front-II.jpg

[astrallite]

[QUOTE=laststarfighter]something new!!
http://www.miragespeakers.com/v2/product_page.php?open=lines&subid=872&id=873
http://www.miragespeakers.com/v2/thumbs/m1-550-OmniVibe-front-II.jpg[/QUOTE]

Looks more like a couch for the iPod than a speaker/docking station =P

[wherryj]

[QUOTE=Crimguy]Yup. All audiophiles are going for boxes with frequency responses like that:

Frequency response: 53Hz to 16kHz ± 3 dB[/QUOTE]

Those specs aren't that bad unless you are using lossless compression. It's hard to add more artifact to an MP3.

[schticker]

[QUOTE=Summa]Scorch: I hear what you are saying, but I'm taking Steve at his word that he's an 'audiophile'. That term indicates one who strives to obtain the best means of accurate sound reproduction, yes?[/QUOTE]

Using an iPod in general flies in the face of that, so really any discussion involving an iPod can stop with the first utterenace. What you plug it into is scarcely relevant at that point.

iPod audio snobs LOL.