To buy a Vizio 50" plasma or not to buy and why

[curtishd]

I know there is a forum for the 50" Vizio plasma but to be honest it is really long and I want specific info and not everything else so....
Why should I buy this plasma?
Why should I NOT buy this plasma (what else should I buy then)?

[billybob_jcv]

You call those "specific" questions? The only way they could be more general is if you asked "What display should I buy?"

#1: It's one of the cheapest 50" panels.
#2: There are panels with better PQ available if you pay more.

[jonnythan]

You SHOULD buy it because it is an incredible value, has a great picture, and will make you happy for a long time.

You should NOT buy it because it's f'in hideous and looks as cheap as it is. The awful, warped black bezel and humming fans, along with non-detachable hideous bottom-mounted speakers are not something I want in my living room.

You SHOULD buy the Maxent instead ;)

[Stocky]

Skip both off brands >> Vizio and Maxent and get a Pioneer or Pannasonic. Why take a chance when spending so much money?

[jonnythan]

[QUOTE=Stocky]Skip both off brands >> Vizio and Maxent and get a Pioneer or Pannasonic. Why take a chance when spending so much money?[/QUOTE]
Explain how either one is "taking a chance"? Taking a chance on what? The TV's are easy to compare, they come with good warranties, etc. The Maxent uses a Panasonic panel and Panasonic electronics.

[Mpov]

I have the Maxent MX-50X3 and think it is one of the best deals available there. Have not compared it to the Vizio but I did compare it to the 50" Panasonic, Samsung and LG and thought that PQ-wise it was just as good as any of those, and better than the Phillips that I was originally going to buy.

[tneal]

[QUOTE=jonnythan]Explain how either one is "taking a chance"? Taking a chance on what? The TV's are easy to compare, they come with good warranties, etc. The Maxent uses a Panasonic panel and Panasonic electronics.[/QUOTE]

I could be wrong on this but the Maxent is not a rebadged Panasonic (like last years HP). It uses Panasonic glass but not the electronics, which are just as important to PQ as the glass.

[jonnythan]

[QUOTE=tneal]I could be wrong on this but the Maxent is not a rebadged Panasonic (like last years HP). It uses Panasonic glass but not the electronics, which are just as important to PQ as the glass.[/QUOTE]
Mine has a bunch of chips with the Panasonic logo on them *shrug*

Either way it looks wonderful and there's no reason to say it's "taking a chance." I'm not sure which part of the TV involves luck.

[andy sullivan]

How do the 50" Maxent and the Vizio compare head to head? I'm talking about PQ, remotes, adjustments, visual appeal, owners manual, stand, speakers sound quality, price, weight, problems experienced like speaker buzz, technical support.

[jonnythan]

Here's what I've put together from reading this site. I have seen both but not done a head-to-head. I own the Maxent.

PQ: draw. Vizio looks great, Maxent maybe has better blacks. Vizio displays more colors, supposedly.

Visual appeal: Definitely Maxent. The huge black bezel on the Vizio looks impossibly cheap. It's oddly warped in places because it's so thin. The bottom-mounted speakers look terrible. The Maxent has a relatively clean, professional look and the speakers detach.

Price: The same

Problems: Lots of Vizio owners have reported a strong "buzz" coming from the set. Many have gone through several sets to find one that isn't offensive. All of the Vizios have fans that are audible in a quiet room. The Maxent is silent - no fans, no buzz. I haven't heard of any widespread issues.

[curtishd]

Any burn in issues? Also, is there a "white wash feature" for burn in?
Anyone have an HD-dvd player and test it with this set?
Do you all put your signal incoming at 1080i or 720p?
What mounts are you all using?

[Zues]

[QUOTE=jonnythan]You SHOULD buy it because it is an incredible value, has a great picture, and will make you happy for a long time.

You should NOT buy it because it's f'in hideous and looks as cheap as it is. The awful, warped black bezel and humming fans, along with non-detachable hideous bottom-mounted speakers are not something I want in my living room.

You SHOULD buy the Maxent instead ;)[/QUOTE]


Haha the vizio looks great with the bezel... Black levels and every other category triples what the maxtent has. Dream :rolleyes: :D

[redgtxdi]

[QUOTE=Zues]Haha the vizio looks great with the bezel... Black levels and every other category triples what the maxtent has. Dream :rolleyes: :D[/QUOTE]


I'm assuming sarcasm??



I don't think the Vizio's a bad decision, but I think there are better sets out there.

One big problem, I think is that we've drawn ourselves to a conclusion that a sub $2,500 50" plasma is a "deal" and that it's "cheap". When, in fact it's more like a nice down payment on a brand new car!!!!

We need to really start realizing that $2,500 is A LOT of money and not clown ourselves into throwing a few hundred less at something that's not going to bring us full satisfaction!!

In that regard, if the Vizio 42" went under $1,500 again, I'd probably jump 'cuz I'm a sucker like everyone else! (Did I just say that?) :eek: ;)

[jonnythan]

[QUOTE=Zues]Haha the vizio looks great with the bezel... Black levels and every other category triples what the maxtent has. Dream :rolleyes: :D[/QUOTE]
You're... joking, right?

[curtishd]

Who makes the Vizio? I have seen post stating that the glass of various plasmas are made by Panasonic and the electronics by someone else. Any idea?

Also, I like the Maxent 50" but it lacks 2 HDMI inputs and the Costco return policy. I like that if under a year th 50" Vizio doesn't work out I can take it back and not have to pay for an extended warranty.
The only other plasmas I have seen at Costco that are 50" are the Philips and Vizio.

Has anyone tried a Toshiba HD-DVD player with this set yet? I'd like to here your impressions.

[jonnythan]

I *believe* the Vizio is an LG panel.

Costco does sell the Maxent, curtis, so you can get the return policy.

Also, you can buy an HDMI switcher for about $100, so that shouldn't be too much of an issue, especially when the Maxent has a VGA input.

[Zues]

[QUOTE=redgtxdi]I'm assuming sarcasm??[/QUOTE]


Somewhat ;) The black levels 10:000:1 and vizios claim 6k shades of grey arent no joke though. The vizio and samsung with 10k:1 to me seems to have best black levels of any current plasmas ive seen.

Cnet ranks the vizio a little higher than the maxtent with the ugly speaker wings :p They also say the color green is poor on the maxtent.

[jonnythan]

C|Net is full of BS. I have yet to read a single review of anything on their website that I would say is very accurate.

The contrast ratio figures are total bunk. They're basically made up under ideal conditions.

I can tell you that my Maxent's blacks are inky, and no matter what I did to the Vizio at Sam's, I couldn't get the blacks anything better than dark gray without the display becoming muddled. The common wisdom in the Vizio and Maxent threads is that the Maxent has better blacks, and my own eyes verified this.

The bezel on the Vizio looks unbelievably cheap in person.

The Maxent is pretty hideous with the speakers attached, but who buys a $2500 TV and uses built-in speakers? It's beautiful without them.

[ScottS]

One reason to not buy the Vizio 50" is the rumor that a Vizio 50" with tuners will be available mid-May.

That's my dilema. I have a rain check for the 42" that expires in 2 days. If I could get the 50" with tuners for probalby no more than the current 50" Vizio in 1 month, I'd wait. But as with all rumors, you never know...

[Zues]

I dont have no reason to doubt Cnets after calibration results.

[Artwood]

Best buy in an EL Cheapo 50-inch plasma would be a Zenith.

[bosng]

i just bought the 50 and this is news to me. all i can ask for is the built in tuner and it is coming in may? will costco be carrying them right away? i guess i can always return this one when the other comes out, my unit has this annoying buzzing coming from the speakers and i suppose that's a good enough justification for a return. :)

[Zues]

[QUOTE=ScottS]One reason to not buy the Vizio 50" is the rumor that a Vizio 50" with tuners will be available mid-May.[/QUOTE]

55in i heard comming in september.

[jonnythan]

[QUOTE=Artwood]Best buy in an EL Cheapo 50-inch plasma would be a Zenith.[/QUOTE]
I *did* compare the Maxent head-to-head with the Zenith. The Maxent had more natural colors and blacker blacks.

[billybob_jcv]

Comparing spec contrast ratios across mfrs is completely useless. If it isn't a comparison of the actual measured black levels done by the same credible source, it ain't worth much...

[Zues]

[QUOTE=Artwood]Best buy in an EL Cheapo 50-inch plasma would be a Zenith.[/QUOTE]

Id rank the zenith above the maxtent, but not the vizio :)

[ScottS]

[QUOTE=bosng]i just bought the 50 and this is news to me. all i can ask for is the built in tuner and it is coming in may? will costco be carrying them right away? i guess i can always return this one when the other comes out, my unit has this annoying buzzing coming from the speakers and i suppose that's a good enough justification for a return. :)[/QUOTE]
I don't know if it is fact. Read the Vizio 42" thread. Near the end someone mentions that is what Vizio tech support told them.

As for when it will be available at your local retailers? Who knows???

[andy sullivan]

It is true that Vizio will be offering a 55" plasma this Fall for under $3K. Assuming they have fixed a couple of easily fixable problems from the 50" and if it has a tuner, that dog will hunt. Throw in cable card access and a decent looking cabinet and Katy bar the door.

[jtntsfr]

I have a Pio5060. I paid considerably more for it than both the Viz and the Max.
The picture quality is probally only marginally better. But the bottom line is, this is a big purchase that will be around my house for hopefully many years to come.
I couldn't be happier with my choice. Absolutly no regrets. No glitches, no nagging bugs.
Just a great picture, all the time. Plus it looks great on or off. FWIW.



Jeff

[curtishd]

I like the idea of a 55" Vizio under $3,000. Does anyone have a credible sources or specs? Who will sell it and when?

[randymac]

I bought one of these 50" Vizios for use as a stop gap until the 1080p plasma displays with a HDMI input are shipping at an economical price. I also considered the fact that much TV programming is aired at SD resolution and the upconvert to a 768 x 1366 display is very good but reviews I have noticed about SD upconverting to 1080p isn't very good. I will grant you this is subjective. I honestly don't plan on using the unit but 3 years maybe 4 years tops and retiring it to the bedroom.

I would not by the Vizio if money was no object and could get a bigger screen along with one of those fancy video processor and maybe a media center pc.

[curtishd]

I e-mailed Vizio and got this reply about the 55":
Good afternoon,
I did hear a rumor about a 55” unit being in the works to be release towards the end of the year, but nothing has been confirmed. No specifications are available yet.
Best regards,
Bertha Villasenor

Anyone else got anything?

[gscavezze]

[QUOTE=jonnythan]C|Net is full of BS. I have yet to read a single review of anything on their website that I would say is very accurate.

The contrast ratio figures are total bunk. They're basically made up under ideal conditions.

I can tell you that my Maxent's blacks are inky, and no matter what I did to the Vizio at Sam's, I couldn't get the blacks anything better than dark gray without the display becoming muddled. The common wisdom in the Vizio and Maxent threads is that the Maxent has better blacks, and my own eyes verified this.

The bezel on the Vizio looks unbelievably cheap in person.

The Maxent is pretty hideous with the speakers attached, but who buys a $2500 TV and uses built-in speakers? It's beautiful without them.[/QUOTE]

I have the 42" Vizio and I can tell you that the blacks are black on this thing. One thing I have noticed about Sam's Club is that at some of their locations, they are not using component or HDMI connections to the set. They are using composite.

[styvo]

had mine now for a month and could'nt be more pleased for the size/price.there is a slight buzz with white as loud as my ceiling fan motor with the sound all the way down, its nothing to cry over.PQ with hd and xbox360 are insane! non-hd cable looks excellent. give it a try - worst case scenario box it up and return it.

[DrSchmoe]

I'll also chime in for the Vizio. I think it looks great, almost a combination of the consumer and high-end 50" Samsungs (also with their speakers on the bottom). I don't know what Jonnythan is talking about, but the plastic doesn't look cheap, warped, or anything other than clean and high tech. It is a nice piano black that goes well with my black hard-wood Synergy furniture from Salamander Designs. He obviously made his choice for the Maxent, he is advocating for them, and that's fine. To each his own.

As for the speakers, I have no idea what they sound like. I turned them off 25 seconds after powering on the set. They supposedly sound pretty decent, but I let my Harman Kardon receiver do the audio duties.

Quality wise you should be okay. One of the store reps where I purchased mine said that the brand is the least returned of the ones they regularly carry. The buzzing problems and fan issues associated with most of the Vizios were from earlier production runs (anything manufactured in 2006 seems to be fine -- you'll notice a "G" in the serial number for this year, which is on the carton and the 7th character from the end, go carton hunting if you have to). The fans are virtually inaudible on mine. Yes, you can hear them, but they are so close to the noise floor of my house (which is very quiet) that I doubt visitors would notice unless I made a point of demonstrating ambient noise. My HD Tivo is noticeably louder (which itself is still very quiet -- the Xbox 360 on the other hand is orders of magnitude louder than TV or Tivo).

The big selling points for me were 2 HDMI inputs and gorgeous picture quality that was right up there with the better known brands costing a good bit more. For $1500 less than Panasonic I think it's impossible to make a comparison without being overwhelmed by the value. I didn't have a problem spending more on a "premium" brand, but given the value of this monitor it seemed like an irrational decision. If you need other features such as CableCard, SD slot, etc, then you'll need to look elsewhere. Granted, if anyone is seriously considering CableCard, I'd recommend they wait and get an HD Tivo with CableCard (that also does ATSC). You'll never go back to standard tuning. I honestly don't understand a need for built-in tuning, but that could just be me.

PCMag.com has a decent review of the P50HDM and they measured the actual contrast ratio at 638:1, which was the second highest they've ever tested behind the Dell W5001C (which they didn't like due to other problems). CNet also liked the Vizio, despite that they reviewed an earlier model with louder fans and some other problems ironed out in recent builds (they are one of the only reviewers I know that seem to have a good methodology, list video quality stats, and cover a variety of models). I personally found the image more faithful than the comparable Maxent, not as 'window-like' as Pioneer, but as I said above, to each his own... No pair of eyes are the same, so it's best to rely on your own.

Oh, and a nice thing about Vizio (Maxent is as well) -- they're an American company (I read in a review somewhere they are some of the same people who started Princeton Graphics). I don't know about everyone else, but I try to buy American if we have a product of comparable quality. Sure they manufacturer overseas with foreign components (R&D, repair, and distribution is in SoCal), but it is nice that the net profit ends up here. I made sure to look at HP, Dell, Vizio, and Maxent for that reason. I wouldn't consider it a critical factor, but if everything else were equal I'd go domestic.

Hopefully that helps...

[herrrm_daddy]

My first HD purchase was the Maxent. I am very satisfied with my purchase. Wish it had two HDMI inputs, but, as mentioned earlier I could get a switch. I use component from cablebox, HDMI to DVD, RGB to PC; it all works out great. I recommend it because I have one with no problems thusfar.
Interesting note, I have read here that there are only 2 manufacturers of plasma glass.

[DrSchmoe]

[QUOTE=herrrm_daddy]
Interesting note, I have read here that there are only 2 manufacturers of plasma glass.[/QUOTE]
There are 5:

Panasonic
Samsung
LG
Pioneer
Hitachi/Fujitsu (split ownership of the plant)

Maxent monitors appear to be rebadged Sampo screens, which used to be Samsung glass (Fujitsu before that), and currently seems to be Panasonic. For instance here is Sampo's product page for what is the Maxent 50-inch monitor: http://www.sampoamericas.com/pd_29.aspx

Also, with a grain of salt, the MX-42HPM20 doesn't appear to be a Sampo, so Maxent might be using contract manufacturers (3rd party manufacturers hired to build to provided plans, often for smaller companies without their own factories), or are currently sourcing from elsewhere. Another possibility is that Sampo didn't make their own (for rebadged sale), but rather acquired pre-manufactured screens from the same source as Maxent (ergo it never was rebadged, just mass produced for multiple companies).

Vizios appear to be contract-manufactured, I believe using LG glass. Mind you they might rebadge another company, but if that's the case, I haven't been able to find out which company is the OEM. I'll be happy to be proven either way on that.

[Sgooter]

I've given this subject a lot of thought lately, and I've come to the following factual, irrefutable conclusion: The Vizio P50HDM is the very best PDP for me right now. Therefore, you should buy one too.

So, there it is. No more buts and no more arguments. Case closed.

All this thinking has made me thirsty; see you at the bar.

Glad to be of help. ;)

[andy sullivan]

I have helped friends hook up two Vizios recently and was very impressed. They are both thrilled.

[curtishd]

How do DVDs, SD, HD and HD-dvd's look on this plasma?

[styvo]

A+

[DrSchmoe]

[QUOTE=curtishd]How do DVDs, SD, HD and HD-dvd's look on this plasma?[/QUOTE]
My prior plasma (relegated to the bedroom) is a Samsung, and the Vizio definitely has a better picture for standard definition content. DVDs look exceptionally crisp (I'm using an older reference player that does not up-convert). I'm personally waiting for a BluRay/HD-DVD combination player (LG supposedly will be releasing one), and that should upconvert standard DVDs to a higher resolution.

Regular standard definition TV looks pretty good, however with the HD Tivo I'd guess (when combined with Xbox and DVDs) that 90% of my viewing is 16x9 with 80% of that in HD. SD content tends to be the news channels, History channel, etc.

One thing that's especially nice are the menu adjustments that allows you to specify the digital noise reduction, etc. However, once you go HD, it's really hard to go back (I generally dislike SD content). Although I've noticed that when I zoom wide-screen SD content (Modern Marvels on History, Megastructures on National Geographic, and similar) the picture is quite good. I was surprised SD content would look that reasonable. However, in all fairness, all current generation panels might do a fine job. I can't really give a valid comparison because I never bothered to do any SD side-by-sides before buying.

[mercury]

i love my 50" vizio.....go for it!

[stevesaint]

Hey, Doc!

Thanks for the great insights. Would you happen to know if Costco or Sam's carry the latest 2006 models; sans fan noises, et al? Thanks in advance.

Stevesaint

[DrSchmoe]

[QUOTE=stevesaint]Hey, Doc!

Thanks for the great insights. Would you happen to know if [warehouse stores] carry the latest 2006 models; sans fan noises, et al? Thanks in advance.

Stevesaint[/QUOTE]

I got mine in early April and it had a build date of mid-March. My advice would be to make sure you go to a store in a residential part of town that would experience decent inventory turn-over in the plasma department. There is a warehouse store near my office and it's a more commercial part of town, as a result I wouldn't think they move as many screens (since the Vizios are more of a consumer model).

The serial number is on the outside of the carton, so just look for the "G" as the 7th character from the end. The two digits right after it are the build week.

And PS: Have fun if you can't resist the buying urge! Good luck.

[Sgooter]

[QUOTE=stevesaint]Hey, Doc!

Thanks for the great insights. Would you happen to know if Costco or Sam's carry the latest 2006 models; sans fan noises, et al? Thanks in advance.

Stevesaint[/QUOTE]
FWIW, mine is a G04 build with no fan noise and no buzz. Bought it at Sams in March.

[pheroy]

This is a question near and dear to my heart recently... :p I've set my sights on a 50" plasma, and my budget really should stay at around $2500, so the Vizio is right there. I've gone to Costco twice to view it, and quite frankly I am rather confused by my observations vs. the reviews and owner feedback. The big problem I found was that black level did not look anywhere near as good as advertised, and shadow detail was terrible. Now, there was a Panasonic 50u right next to it - the first viewing the Panny was showing some bad artifacts, but it clearly had vastly superior blacks and shadow detail - not just a little. I keep seeing these qualities mentioned as one of the strengths of the Vizio, so I am really perplexed. I wouldn't expect it to be at the level of the acknowledged leader in black level, but the difference in dark scenes was distressing - so much was missing in the Vizio picture. Because of the side mounted controls I was able to change the Brightness, Contrast etc on the Vizio to see if it was adjusted really poorly, but I couldn't improve the situation much.

So, in a nutshell... I am planning to dig a little deeper and come up with extra for a better unit like one of the new Samsung 5053 or maybe the Panasonic 60u. I really like the look of the new HP PL5060n, and plan to investigate it more.

[DrSchmoe]

I'd see if they could custom-cable the set for you in the warehouse. Perhaps the Panny was closer to the source, no telling where the Vizio was in the splitter chain.

My father has an HD Panasonic and I'd rate the Vizio's picture quality as "comparable". They aren't identical, but I am happy with both pictures. I personally think the Pioneers look the best (Fujitsu used to be my favorite), but I didn't think it looked $1500 better. My price range was pretty much anything... The only thing I considered too steep was Pioneer's brand-spanking-new 1080p 50" plasma.

I'll put a good word in for Samsung. My second PDP is a 42" Samsung and it has been nothing but good to me. Unfortunately they shortened their warranty (used to be two years). The only negative was the Sammy looked terrible out of the box; it looked perfect after I tweaked the service menu. My initial impression was, "I spent how much money on *this*?!?!?" Granted that was a several years ago and the investment in that 42" Sammy could have procured a house-full of present-day Vizios. I'm sure the QA is much improved. I was happy enough with the purchase (after calibration) that my computer monitors are Samsung LCDs.

Pretty much the only thing I avoid are Sonys... That company really annoys me. Chalk it up to their 76 types of memory sticks, mini disc, SACD, and their general trend of *always* coming out with alternative formats regardless what the rest of the industry wants to do. Because of them, I need to sit on my hands until someone comes out with a BluRay/HD-DVD combo player which will likely cost entirely too much money (heard LG was going to jump on the dual-format bandwagon, but I don't know how credible that was).

[packergeek]

The Vizio is not a bad deal just make sure your not getting a refurbished one. If you want something with subpar picture quality and a crappy chasis go with the Vizio. I would still wait though as I think you are jumping into fast and I would wait for a year for the mainstream bands to drop down to current prices. I know you probably are wanting to burn that money but I would wait unless your planning to get something that has a more established background behind it.

[Sgooter]

This is really an easy decision: Buy the Vizio from Sams or Costco and see if you like it. If you do, then it's a great deal. If you don't like it once you get it up and running at home, then simply take it back whenever you want for an exchange or full refund. Either way, it's still a great deal since you can't lose.
My Vizio P50 has been great in every respect. ;)

[andy sullivan]

There is nothing subpar about the Vizio's PQ. Plus, if you don't like it you can always take it back, anytime. Trying to judge PQ inside of any store is a crap shoot, especially inside a warehouse like Costco. Of the many displays I have set up for people, the PQ always showed dramatic improvement in a home environment. The Vizios I have installed all looked fantastic and every owner has been thrilled.

[DrSchmoe]

[QUOTE=andy sullivan]There is nothing subpar about the Vizio's PQ.[/QUOTE]
He just wanted to troll, and typically the only logical reason is a.) he bought a Vizio which happened to be DOA or defective (which happens to every single brand in increasing numbers as screen size goes up (easier to damage in shipping, etc), or b.) he spent twice as much on a different brand and throws out illogical barbs as his method of buyers remorse. He also missed my earlier post that only 5 companies make plasma glass, so realistically the only way you can experience any PQ difference is by software quality (since there aren't too many electronic component providers as well). Generally speaking, the quality difference between the cheapest sets and the most expensive ones happens to be narrower than people would think.

Additionally, I'm pretty certain buying a new set and getting a refurb wouldn't be Vizios problem. I can't speak for Vizio specifically, but manufacturers typically have strict tear-down procedures and won't reuse parts except for their service division. If someone ended up with a refurb, they probably bought from a store where the manager was less than honest and didn't want the returns hurting his monthly numbers. Typically this is more of a problem in less-well-to-do parts of town since they'll have higher return percentages, but that's not an exclusive problem and you can find dishonest management anywhere. Granted that doesn't sound PC, but regardless where you live, I always recommend people go shopping for high-ticket items in the nicest part of town. The merchandise will turn-over quicker and they'll get less back.

[pj2004]

I'm wondering what they're going to offer in the next round of Vizios, such as ATSC/QAM tuners, etc. Heard about the 55" also but I'd guess they'll offer another 50" sometime. The current 50" is pretty nice for the money. I always see people buying them at Costco.

[Tenfingers Gene]

I've had my P50 Vizio for six months now. No noticeable fan noise, no buzzing, great picture with HD satellite and DVDs. I have mine recessed into a wall and backlit, with the bottom speakers concealed; I must agree with the speaker panel ugliness, but that's my only complaint. The much more expensive 50s may have marginally better picture quality, but you'd have to nitpick pretty carefully to see any meaningful difference.
Of course, that's just my opinion...I could be wrong.

[andy sullivan]

I am certainly not trying to tout Vizio here. All the plasma displays, almost all, look so good in the home that it's difficult for any of them to wow me. What does wow me is the difference between home viewing and B&M viewing. There is no doubt that Pioneer, Panasonic, Samsung, LG, NEC, Hitachi, Toshiba, Fuji, all produce top quality displays and may indeed offer some quality benefits over the lesser advertised brands. My thinking when speaking to new buyers, and remember, the majority of new buyers are coming from a 27", 32", or 35" tube type display, is that this market is not like the market of 10 to 15 years ago. There are only a handful of plasma glass manufactures and internal component manufactures. I use the Vizio as an example because they use LG's latest glass, even before LG used it. They incorporate a Fraudja processor, famous from their higher end DVD player usage. I did read that Vizio will be offering a 55" later this summer with a retail price of $2999.

[pdawg17]

[QUOTE=andy sullivan]I am certainly not trying to tout Vizio here. All the plasma displays, almost all, look so good in the home that it's difficult for any of them to wow me. What does wow me is the difference between home viewing and B&M viewing. There is no doubt that Pioneer, Panasonic, Samsung, LG, NEC, Hitachi, Toshiba, Fuji, all produce top quality displays and may indeed offer some quality benefits over the lesser advertised brands. My thinking when speaking to new buyers, and remember, the majority of new buyers are coming from a 27", 32", or 35" tube type display, is that this market is not like the market of 10 to 15 years ago. There are only a handful of plasma glass manufactures and internal component manufactures. I use the Vizio as an example because they use LG's latest glass, even before LG used it. They incorporate a Fraudja processor, famous from their higher end DVD player usage. I did read that Vizio will be offering a 55" later this summer with a retail price of $2999.[/QUOTE]

Fyi, the 55" has been pushed back to an unknown time due to them needed to find a "good source for the glass" yet...

[curtishd]

Several questions:
Has anyone tried to sent the plasma a 1080p signal? Will it accept a 1080p signal and down convert to 768p?
I am now between this and the Toshiba 50hp16 (50hp66) that Costco sells. The Toshiba has a hdtv tuner but that sems to be the main added benefit, what do you all think?
Do you all input at 1080i or 720p? I read that when inputing a singal on any hdtv that it should be the same as the SOURCE. For example, a HD-dvd should be inputed to the plasma at 1080i (or 1080p) and down converted to 768p on the plasma. If you set the HD-dvd player to 720 the hd-dvd player down converts to 540p then up converts to 720p then the display to 768p. OKAY, with all that said what do you all do and if you ave an HD-DVD player which looks better on this display 720p or 1080i and can you input 1080p and have the plasma down convert to 768p?

[DrSchmoe]

[QUOTE=curtishd]Several questions:
Has anyone tried to sent the plasma a 1080p signal?[/QUOTE]No
Will it accept a 1080p signal and down convert to 768p?No. I don't know the model, but I do believe there is only one set on the market that accepts 1080p. Every other one takes 1080i and internally upscales to 1080p. Otherwise the vast majority of 1080p sets are limited to accepting 1080p over their VGA ports *only* (which is useless since new technologies can prevent HD over analog). In order to accept 1080p the TV must include HDMI 1.3. If you find other sets supporting HDMI 1.3 I'd love to know which models those were.
The Toshiba has a hdtv tuner but that sems to be the main added benefit, what do you all think?I don't know if you've used a DVR before... My advice, take the difference and get an HD DirecTivo, Dish HD DVR, or whatever HD DVR your cable company provides. That being said, the FCC is mandating that ATSC tuners are included in displays greater than a certain size (25" or larger starting July 1). Built in tuning is nice, but a waste of money if you happen to be a DVR addict. I haven't used an internal tuner since the late 90s. :)
Do you all input at 1080i or 720p? I read that when inputing a singal on any hdtv that it should be the same as the SOURCE. For example, a HD-dvd should be inputed to the plasma at 1080i (or 1080p) and down converted to 768p on the plasma.Generally speaking, feeding the native resolution is best unless your external component has better scalers. The "native resolution" argument is relevant because people buy inexpensive components and these typically use the same DCDi technology as the TV (or worse). Given two comparable scalers, use the one in the TV since it is aware of the native resolution and doesn't default to an arbitrary HD standard, 720p, etc.

If you have videophile components (better than the built-in scaler), then by all means, use those instead.
If you set the HD-dvd player to 720 the hd-dvd player down converts to 540p then up converts to 720p then the display to 768p. OKAY, with all that said what do you all do and if you ave an HD-DVD player which looks better on this display 720p or 1080i and can you input 1080p and have the plasma down convert to 768p?This one is easy. Wait to buy an HD-DVD player that actually does 1080p. :) The HD-DVD format supports (and is encoded at 1080p), but these first generation players are little more than HTPCs in a snazzy looking chassis (the Toshiba is just a P4 with lots of DRAM and a flash drive for the OS, you can search online and find various autopsies of the players). They only output at 1080i and the decoder/scaler is probably all done in software. As for the down-convert to 540p, I don't think you can assume that. Remember the source is 1080p, so doing a direct-scale to 720p is plausible unless the CPU is so burdened it can't deal with the amount of data in a 1080p bitstream.

My feeling on the current generation HD players... I'd only buy if you're willing to buy again next year, or shortly thereafter. The devices will get *drastically* better when everything gets integrated in customized silicon. The first batch of HD-DVD players are a joke compared to the DVD player I bought in March of 1997. Well, I take that back, they might be fine units, but I don't get any overwhelming sense of "fit-and-finish."

Speaking as a hardware/software developer, the first HD-DVD players seem to be "generic". It almost seems the specs were so fluid that they decided to create an HTPC because it allowed them to quickly cobble together the playback software after they finalized the specifications. Now that they've launched, other companies can actually turn the process into dedicated processors. I'm sure this was done in the interests of time-to-market and not optimal quality. Granted don't hold me to that, it's just speculation and I have no idea what went through the minds of their engineers.

I'm personally going to wait for the first-generation combo players (Blu-Ray plus HD-DVD). If that isn't going to happen this year, I'll add the HD-DVD component to my Xbox and wait it out.

[ready71]

I bought a p50 from Bj's last week. This is my first HD monitor. I have Time Warner and a 8300HD DVR.

Good: The HD PQ is very good and I'm satisfied.

Bad 1: I have very loud buzzing.

Bad 2: I think the SD PQ is bad - especially when I watch soccer.

I definitely have to return it due to the buzzing. I'm not sure if I will try another P50 or get something else.

[curtishd]

I am also definitely sure I will buy the Vizio 50" plasma now with the price drop (I will not say the price but it is not hard to find). I just wonder if the drop in price is due the possibility of a new model with more feature soon...?

[dhodory]

I just saw the 50" Vizio next to a 50" Pioneer at Costco and was impressed with the Vizio. Granted, I'm no Plasma expert, and I didn't sit there and mess with the settings, etc. -- but at first blush the black surround of the Vizio didn't look any cheaper than the Pioneer next to it, and although I did not check the settings to see if one of the sets had it's brightness jacked all the way up, both screens showed some serious "Pop" in terms of color. The lighting in the store wasn't really good enough for me to look at the black levels. But given that the Pioneer was almost exactly 2X the price of the Vizio, I would personally need to find some very serious flaws in the Vizio or see something fantastic in the Pioneer to warrant the 2X spend. There are people on this forum, who obviously have a keener eye and more money to spend than I do. My suggestion is once you've decided on your budget, try to view the sets right next to each other. A quick look at Phillips plasma next to a Pioneer plasma will be all it takes to justify the additional $750 the Pioneer commands -- at least that's my opinion. I remember commenting to the Best Buy salesperson: "Who could possibly see these two sets side by side, and actually CHOOSE the Phillips over the Pioneer over a matter of $750?"

[Mikead]

For all the critics of Vizio Plasma...please read: From Sound and Vision Magazine:


Some fascinating technology goes on behind the screen of a plasma HDTV, and it seems to improve with each new generation of sets. But for most people, the key question is: When can I afford to buy one? If you're asking Vizio, the answer is: right now. At only $1,500 during the company's March Madness promotion, and $1,800 after, the Vizio P42HDTV 42-inch plasma HDTV is the first plasma to vault Evel Knievel-style over the affordability gap. But before speeding out to Costco to drop one in a giant shopping cart, you should ask another question: How well does it perform? That's precisely what I set out to discover.
Compared with its plain-looking predecessor, the P42HDe, Vizio's new 42-incher has strong couch appeal. With a screen surrounded by a glossy black frame and silver bottom-mounted speakers, it doesn't look at all like a budget plasma TV. If you misplace the remote, controls are located out of sight on the TV's side. The sturdy plastic base can be easily removed for wall mounting, and Vizio offers various hardware options on its Web site, starting at $149 — plus a full installation service at $499 (available nationwide).

Input options on the Vizio P42HDTV are a bit sparse compared with those of pricier plasmas, but it has what you'll need to get up and running. Along with high-def HDMI and component-video jacks, you get a VGA input for hooking up a computer and a dedicated antenna input for grabbing off-the-air HDTV broadcasts from the built-in digital tuner. The latter input will accept an analog or digital cable TV feed, though the lack of a CableCARD slot on the TV means you won't be able to receive scrambled standard or high-def premium channels like HBO.

The Vizio P42HDTV's remote control is fairly basic and doesn't have a backlit keypad — you can't have everything at this price. But the button layout is cleanly arranged, with controls for special features like picture-in-picture (PIP), picture-out-of-picture (POP), freeze, and zoom located out of the way at the bottom. A set of five direct-input buttons lets you instantly switch sources — a desirable feature on a remote control. And pressing the Wide button lets you toggle through the TV's display modes: Normal (4:3) and Wide (16:9) for HDTV and Normal, Wide, and Zoom for standard-def programs.

SETUP For most users, the first step will be to unfold the quick-start poster that comes with the P42HDTV. This helpful chart guides you step-by-step through various tasks from connecting equipment to scanning the airwaves for broadcast TV channels. After I connected my sources and plugged in an indoor set-top antenna, I called up the DTV Tuner menu and let the auto-scan feature rip. Unfortunately, the Vizio has no onscreen tuning meter (a useful feature of many HDTVs that aids in antenna placement), but it still grabbed most of the digital broadcasts in my area. The one exception was the local NBC affiliate — a station that plenty of sets have had trouble pulling in. (With Olympic downhill skiing due to begin in 5 minutes, I was bummed.) When the scan was done, I pressed the remote's Guide button and called up a slick onscreen guide that offered detailed program information for each received channel along with program listings spanning several hours ahead.

Moving on to picture adjustments, I found that the Vizio P42HDTV offers three preset video modes plus a User setting that can be customized independently for each video input. Picture controls are minimal; standard settings like contrast, color, brightness, and sharpness are included, but you won't find advanced adjustments like color temperature, gamma, or noise reduction. Fortunately, the few controls you do get are good enough to get you rolling. The Vizio's 6,500-K color-temperature default setting turned out to be almost right on the nose; with only minor picture tweaks, the TV was good to go.

Test Bench
The Vizio P42HDTV's color temperature measured very close to the 6,500-K standard after picture adjustments were made with the set's standard user controls. After calibration, the TV's grayscale tracking was ±100 K from 20 to 90 IRE — excellent performance. Picture centering was noticeably uneven when the HDMI input was used, but Vizio says that will be corrected in production units. And picture overscan on the set's component-video inputs was 5% — a bit higher than usual. The set's resolution was very good, with alternating lines in a 720p-format multiburst test pattern coming through cleanly via its HDMI and component-video inputs.
Full Lab Results
PICTURE QUALITY Air travel is unsettling enough, but a thriller that takes place during a turbulent long-distance flight, as directed by horror-master Wes Craven — now that's disturbing! Such is Red Eye, and the Vizio P42HDTV 42-inch plasma HDTV did a good job bringing out the DVD's detail in the passengers' clothes from the gloom of the shadowy airplane cabin. I saw subtle pinstripes in the dark jacket of Jackson Rippner (Cillian Murphy), even in shots where the lights were thoroughly dimmed. But although the P42 had decent shadow detail, deep blacks looked merely dark, falling short of the true inkiness I've seen on the best plasmas. This limits contrast in dark movie scenes, reducing some of the TV's overall visual punch.
In the better-lit images of Red Eye's opening airport scene, the Vizio P42HDTV's spot-on color rendition made the skin tones of characters lining up to board the flight appear completely natural. And bright colors (the blue-and-green uniforms of the flight attendants) looked very rich. Fortunately, the set's vivid color rendition didn't come at the expense of more subtle hues like the icy blue of Rippner's eyes and the pale pinkish-red lips of Lisa Reisert (Rachel McAdams).

Having recently logged time checking out a bunch of new, ultra-crisp 1080p projection HDTVs, I'm finding it harder to be impressed by the picture detail on high-def plasmas, most of which provide fewer than half as many pixels. Even so, the HDTV programs I watched on the Vizio P42HDTV looked satisfyingly sharp. As I tuned in ABC's sci-fi show Invasion, an overhead shot of the questioning Kira lying on her bed revealed plenty of detail in both the fine silk-screened drawings on her T-shirt and the lacy patterns on her Indian pillow. The fuzzy texture of a nearby stuffed animal in another shot also came across clearly.

But along with good high-def detail, the Vizio P42HDTV displayed a bit of picture noise in the many dark shots from Invasion. In a nighttime scene where a father speaks to his daughter from his tree-house perch (you have to take these strange arrangements for granted with sci-fi), the panels of the screen door next to her showed a slightly coarse gradation of dark to light tones. But this effect was rare in most of the shows I watched on the set. Another problem I detected was that images fed to the Vizio via its HDMI input were shifted noticeably to the right compared with those via its properly centered component-video input. According to Vizio, this problem was peculiar to my test sample and won't appear on production units.

BOTTOM LINE The Vizio P42HDTV 42-inch plasma HDTV performs surprisingly well for a panel that costs as little as $1,500. While its picture isn't perfect, most of the HDTV programs and DVDs I watched on it looked very good, and I often found myself struck by its crisp image, convincing shadow detail, and rich, natural color. And the set's good looks and smart features add quite a bit to its overall appeal, helping make it one of the best overall values in plasma TVs today. So my work is done. Now load those kids into the minivan and get a move on to Costco.

TEST BENCH FOR WEB
FULL LAB RESULTS:
Color temperature (User mode before/after calibration):
Low window (20-IRE): 6,220/6,425 K
High window (80-IRE): 6,472/6,517 K
Brightness (100-IRE window before/after calibration): 48.7/37.5 ftL

The Vizio P42HDTV 42-inch plasma HDTV's color temperature measured very close to the 6,500-K standard after picture adjustments were made with the set's standard user controls. Fine-tuning via its service menu resulted in an even more accurate grayscale. After calibration, the TV's grayscale tracking was ±100 K from 20 to 90 IRE — an excellent performance level. (Calibration needs to be performed by a qualified technician, so discuss it with your dealer before purchase, or call the Imaging Science Foundation at 561-997-9073.)

Color-decoder error on the Vizio was minimal, with only a -5% red deviation measured on the HDMI input. Picture-centering on the HDMI input proved to be a more serious matter, with a full 8% overscan measured on the right hand side of the screen, and 1% on the left. Vizio says this problem was peculiar to my test sample, however, and won't appear on production units. The average overscan on the set's component-video inputs, meanwhile, was 5% - a higher than usual amount, but something that wouldn't be detectable by most viewers. The set's resolution was also very good, with the alternating lines in a 720p-format multiburst test pattern coming through cleanly via its HDMI and component-video inputs.

[footballfan]

have had this set for over a week and love it.My brother has the new panasonic 50 inch and we both think the vizio is very close in picture quality.He has a better job(hence more money)but if like most people money is somewhat of an issue this is a great buy.

[Mikead]

[QUOTE=footballfan]have had this set for over a week and love it.My brother has the new panasonic 50 inch and we both think the vizio is very close in picture quality.He has a better job(hence more money)but if like most people money is somewhat of an issue this is a great buy.[/QUOTE]


Which Vizio do you have. the 42" or 50"? Im trying to decide between the two different sizes.

[footballfan]

the 50 inch,great price at costco or sams.If in fact you don't like it both wherehouses have great return policies.I seriously doubt you'll use it,this set is fantastic for its price.This is my 4th hdtv and ranks just behind my hitachi crtrptv in terms of picture quality.When you get it home you'll probably want to tweek the picture to your liking.For me I just turned the contrast and brightness to 40,the saturation to 45 and the sharpness to 5.I also turned off all the advanced stuff which helped to eleminate any noise from the picture.MY advice is to go for it,sign up for hd service and you wont regret it.Good luck.

[Mikead]

I have read some opinions that there will be a shakeout for the widescreen technology with Plasma abd LCD competeing for the standard much like the VHS/Beat shakeout 25 years ago. Has anyone else read this? And what is your opinion?

[703tv]

i bought the Vizio unit this weekend, the price dropped again and decided to go 50inch instead of 42. I think the vizio looks good, the piano finish looks like the new samsungs. Question tho, while buying it, the salesperson said Sony made the vizio TV since they didnt have plasmas under the sony name. anyone know if this is correct?

[pheroy]

[QUOTE=703tv] Question tho, while buying it, the salesperson said Sony made the vizio TV since they didnt have plasmas under the sony name. anyone know if this is correct?[/QUOTE]

Nope. Sony doesn't make plasma panels under any name. The Vizio is an LG panel, though the electronics are their own spec. (DCDi processing etc.)

[pheroy]

[QUOTE=Mikead]I have read some opinions that there will be a shakeout for the widescreen technology with Plasma abd LCD competeing for the standard much like the VHS/Beat shakeout 25 years ago. Has anyone else read this? And what is your opinion?[/QUOTE]

A display is not like a media format - as long as the input terminals and signals are compatible (component, DVI, HDMI for HD signals), it will not be obsolete. So the Beta/VHS analogy is completely wrong. Both exist, and will continue to exist alongside other technologies, with no problem for end users. One may take a larger portion of market share, but that has no bearing on whether the other might be better suited for some situations.

[rossi146]

I have a F42 build Vizio 50 it has been awsome, I also just purchased another. Personally, I prefer the bottom mount speakers, I don't care for the side mount, but I don't use them anyway. I also like the piano black bezel. To each their own I guess. Thats why there is more than one manufacturer, so everyone can choose the one they like.

[bosng]

i'm looking at the 50 vizio right now in my living room and all i can say is i long for the
westinghouse lcd which i returned because of some light leaking issue. called westinghouse and they assure me that was a defective set. now i'm waiting for the
westy 47 lcd to come out. when that day comes the vizio is going back to costco.
image quality imo is not even close.
you just have to ask yourself what is a good image and make a decision.

i think the plasma "contrast" makes the image look too punchy at the expense of realistic subtle tones that the "lower contrast" lcds do not have a problem with.

[jonnythan]

[QUOTE=bosng]i think the plasma "contrast" makes the image look too punchy at the expense of realistic subtle tones that the "lower contrast" lcds do not have a problem with.[/QUOTE]
That's why we turn the color and contrast down to get the "looking out of a window" effect instead of the "Bright saturated unnatural colors" effect you get in the store.

[bosng]

yes, turned down and calibrated with avia and still has a contrasty "big tv" look to it. by that i mean it doesn't look like a next generation picture. the westinghouse lcd has the advantage of 1080p and no glare and imo better gradation in tones and greyscale. colors are much closer to reality on the lcd. not trying to make this an lcd vs plasma thread. just my observation with these two sets that i had in my house and tested till my eyes bled.

the upside for the visio was on the xbox, racing games were more involving with the bigger screen. that is the reason i'm waiting on the 47 westinghouse instead of getting the 42. there is a sale on the 42 westys now, about 500 off retail.

[jonnythan]

Guess it depends on the TV. I never did a very critical look at the Vizio, but my Maxent could double for a windows sometimes it's so lifelike. I've seen lots of LCD's but have never seen a single one that I thought gave a more realistic picture than an average plasma.

[bosng]

i think it has to do with the 1080p resolution and also the viewer. what i like may not be what the next guy likes. i've never seen a plasma that i like besides pioneer elite level.

[Scottxray]

[QUOTE=redgtxdi]I'm assuming sarcasm??



I don't think the Vizio's a bad decision, but I think there are better sets out there.

One big problem, I think is that we've drawn ourselves to a conclusion that a sub $2,500 50" plasma is a "deal" and that it's "cheap". When, in fact it's more like a nice down payment on a brand new car!!!!

We need to really start realizing that $2,500 is A LOT of money and not clown ourselves into throwing a few hundred less at something that's not going to bring us full satisfaction!!

In that regard, if the Vizio 42" went under $1,500 again, I'd probably jump 'cuz I'm a sucker like everyone else! (Did I just say that?) :eek: ;)[/QUOTE]

The vizio 42"is at that price at Costco NOW. Picked one up last week.
Actually the Maxent is also, at the same price.

[Mpov]

Link to a recent PC World Article comapring the Vizio, Maxent MX-50X3 and a much higher priced Samsung HDTV:

http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,125578,00.asp

[Mikead]

What do they mean that you cant get true HD with a 42" plasma? And that a 50" is needed?

[jonnythan]

Who said that?

[pheroy]

All existing 42" HD plasmas are 1024 x 768 resolution (as opposed to ED which is 854 x 480), which technically can't fully resolve any true HD signal. (1280 x 720 for 720p misses a little in the horizontal resolution, which we are supposedly less sensitive to.) Whether this slightly odd resolution, and the resulting rectangular pixels, really matters on a video signal is a little more controversial. Most people will find the picture on a 42" HD plasma quite good, unless you're looking at test patterns. I wouldn't worry about it too much.

[Mikead]

I just bought a 42" HD plasma and the regular non-hd pictures dont look so good. Of coures I dont have the HD service from Direct TV yet. And Im using a S-Video cable. Will my non-HD picture improve when I finally get HD satellite service using a HDMI cable? I hope so. Otherwise I spent a lot of money for a TV that wont give me better regular pictures than my old CRT.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

[jonnythan]

Your SD picture will probably not improve.

You should have done some research before you bought that plasma TV. It's common knowledge that SD will look better on a CRT than a plasma. If you went from a small-screen CRT (say 27") to a big-screen plasma, it's even worse, because the picture quality is lower *and* you're making it much larger, magnifying the artifacts.

[Mikead]

[QUOTE=footballfan]have had this set for over a week and love it.My brother has the new panasonic 50 inch and we both think the vizio is very close in picture quality.He has a better job(hence more money)but if like most people money is somewhat of an issue this is a great buy.[/QUOTE]


How do your non-HD channels look? Are you using HD cable or satellite?

[Mikead]

[QUOTE=jonnythan]Your SD picture will probably not improve.

You should have done some research before you bought that plasma TV. It's common knowledge that SD will look better on a CRT than a plasma. If you went from a small-screen CRT (say 27") to a big-screen plasma, it's even worse, because the picture quality is lower *and* you're making it much larger, magnifying the artifacts.[/QUOTE]

So what is everyone who has purchased a HD Plasma TV doing for their non-HD channels? Dosen't make sense! Actually...some of my regular channels look great. But a number of them dont. Is satellite reception better than cable?

[trailingedge]

I have a Vizio P50 and I'm very happy with it. Like many people lurking in this forum, I spent a great deal of time deciding on the set that I ultimately purchased. Price was a very real issue for me, but I wasn't willing to compromise tremendously on picture quality. The P50 has pleased me in both those categories. Several months later, I still find the picture quality to be excellent. SD channels look perfectly fine, and in fact SD digital channels look terrific. HD, of course, is outstanding. DVD is incredible.

I have a discerning eye, but I don't enjoy spending more money than I need to spend. I've been very pleased with the Vizio. I don't know exactly what is the most recent price for this set, but it was a steal at the price I paid. And if it costs less today, it is an even better deal.

[bigd213]

I wouldn't buy it

[mercury]

[QUOTE=bigd213]I wouldn't buy it[/QUOTE]

great explanation,ie~who cares!

i love my p50 and have zero regrets.i use cablevision with the dvr box 8300 with HDMI....it`s set up 1080i for HD and scales nonHD channels to stretch the screen.(480i)i think...nonHD channels look pretty good with HD channels looking outstanding.

i have zero buzzing problems so far.

[Mpov]

[QUOTE=Mikead]So what is everyone who has purchased a HD Plasma TV doing for their non-HD channels? Dosen't make sense! Actually...some of my regular channels look great. But a number of them dont. Is satellite reception better than cable?[/QUOTE]

My cable company has some SD programming in digital and some in analog. The digital is noticeably better looking, though nothing compares with a good HD signal :). Satellite may be better because, if I understand correctly, the signals are all digital, but I am no expert - I've never used satellite. The SD quality is something you get used to. With my set, I found it helpful to set the cable box so that it upconverted 480i signals to 480p. That has made a big difference.

[jonnythan]

Reception of SD channels is not going to vary much at all between cable and satellite.

I watch very little SD programming, so it doesn't matter to me. I just deal with it.

[andy sullivan]

The only problem I've heard of is possible speaker buzz. I've helped install 5 of these and never experienced this at all. However, if you have a surround system it becomes a non-issue. Later this year Vizio will begin shipping a 55" MSRP $2999.

[tdavis21484]

[QUOTE=pdawg17]Fyi, the 55" has been pushed back to an unknown time due to them needed to find a "good source for the glass" yet...[/QUOTE]

Haha, what's to debate on the "good source for the glass"? They must be crazy if that's the real reason - FHP is the only company that makes 55" glass. They may just not have enough capacity, as they produce just about 100,000 panels a month.

[andy sullivan]

I had not heard about the delay. Where does Hitachi get its 55" glass. Where does Pioneer and Panasonic get there over 50" glass? I know that LG makes the glass for the 50".

[pdawg17]

[QUOTE=tdavis21484]Haha, what's to debate on the "good source for the glass"? They must be crazy if that's the real reason - FHP is the only company that makes 55" glass. They may just not have enough capacity, as they produce just about 100,000 panels a month.[/QUOTE]

I've had to deal w/ Vizio a lot lately and I have found that 75% of what they say is pulled out of their backside...take it for what it's worth...

[tdavis21484]

[QUOTE=pdawg17]I've had to deal w/ Vizio a lot lately and I have found that 75% of what they say is pulled out of their backside...take it for what it's worth...[/QUOTE]

That's what I figured. Have to make that low cost work somehow...

Andy Sullivan, FHP stands for "Fujitsu-Hitachi Plasma", and used to be co-owned by both companies. Now Hitachi has bought out Fujitsu's share, and the company remains as FHP - the only source for ALiS panels, and the only source for 55" panels.

[andy sullivan]

Thanks for the information. So then Panasonic and Pioneer are getting their panels (over 50") from FHP for the new 1080p displays? I can understand the 55", but 58" and 60" seems very un-cost effective considering the limited demand.

[tdavis21484]

[QUOTE=andy sullivan]Thanks for the information. So then Panasonic and Pioneer are getting their panels (over 50") from FHP for the new 1080p displays? I can understand the 55", but 58" and 60" seems very un-cost effective considering the limited demand.[/QUOTE]

No, Panasonic and Pioneer both produce all of their own panels. Pioneer I think is retooling some of their old production lines to make the larger sizes, while the 42" and 50" production has been redirected through the previously-NEC lines they bought.

FHP only produces 42" and 55" panels, which is why Hitachi doesn't have 50" or 60"+ sets.

Fujitsu, interestingly, used to use FHP 42" and 55" glass, Panasonic 50" glass, and Samsung 63" glass. Now I think they use Panasonic for their 42" size too...but that's become unclear.

[andy sullivan]

I know that Vizeo uses LG for their 50" panels. They actually started using it before LG did. Do you know what kind of panel facility LG has?

[tdavis21484]

[QUOTE=andy sullivan]I know that Vizeo uses LG for their 50" panels. They actually started using it before LG did. Do you know what kind of panel facility LG has?[/QUOTE]

What do you mean, as far as size of panels? LG has produced 42, 50, and 60 inch sizes in the past. I think they still do all of those - they don't use anybody else's glass, though they do OEM for several people - Vizio and Toshiba being two prominent examples.

BTW, I just checked their website, and they have a 71" plasma listed there :eek:

But you can only buy it from select locations...haha.

[andy sullivan]

So, considering that Vizeo announced that they would be producing a 55" they must have planned on getting the glass from FHP. Maybe the Japan company didn't want to sell to the korean company.

[redcrow100]

I just saw the 50 inch vizio at my local BJ's warehouse. It looked attractive enough for the price, but it was being fed a really bad signal (looked like it was split with 6 different sets). I already have an infocus 4805 and a sharpvision 55 inch widescreen from 2001. I want to get rid of the huge huge sharpvision and get a slimmer tv. What REALLY confused me while browsing at the store was that i just saw a 50 Sony plasma right next to Vizio (for $2799.99). Not LCD, plasma. I thought Sony didnt make plasmas. It was mostly grey looking with side speakers. As thin as the 50 inch vizio but its inputs were covered by a plastic door like thing. Does anybody know what im talking about? They also had the lcd sony's across the floor.

But back to the subject at hand, the faroudja chip on the Vizio is a big selling point for me. Its in my infocus and in my dvd player (zenith 318), it shows to me that they at least thought enough to include it in their tv and want to try to show a good picture. I will go back later this week and examine it further.

[dtrell]

i am returning my vizio p50 as soon as my pioneer 5070 gets here. i just finally got tired of not being able to use the exact inputs i want (component 2 cuts out when bright scenes pop up, hdmi does not accept 480i or 480p from my cable box) and tired of the vertically stretched images on 1080i inputs over component or HDMI (the set has a ridiculous amount of overscan on 1080i and 720p). along with the picture not being quite up to par of pio's (it didnt help that i spent 4 days at my moms watching her pioneer 5060). by the way, current p50 owners may want to check the latest situation at the place they bought it.

[Patrick McGuire]

Two things that detract from the appeal of this set is that there is no optical audio out and no variable stretch (justify) for 4/3 SD material. Other than that, it appears that this plasma tv is a bargain right now. The latest generation plasma panel, DCDI de-interlacing. Very tempting......

[Rammitinski]

It lacks some features and can show a bit of noise at times, but you can't beat what you get for the price.

The black levels and the scaling are pretty decent.

If you are a more serious viewer, and want more, you'll have to pay for it.

[dtrell]

[QUOTE=Patrick McGuire]Two things that detract from the appeal of this set is that there is no optical audio out and no variable stretch (justify) for 4/3 SD material. Other than that, it appears that this plasma tv is a bargain right now. The latest generation plasma panel, DCDI de-interlacing. Very tempting......[/QUOTE]
youre not going to get optical out on a monitor. the purpose of optical out is to be able to output dolby digital or pcm sound when using the built in tuners. and some mfrs allow the dolby digital bit to be turned off, so all you get is PCM. panny is famous for this. whatever source youre using, such as a cable STB, will have its own digital output.

there is stretch for 4/3 SD material...UNLESS the source is a digital channel that happens to be side barring the video. my cable STB has a button on the remote that will allow me to stretch those stations if necessary, so its not needed on the vizio.

[pheroy]

[QUOTE=redcrow100]What REALLY confused me while browsing at the store was that i just saw a 50 Sony plasma right next to Vizio (for $2799.99). Not LCD, plasma. I thought Sony didnt make plasmas. It was mostly grey looking with side speakers. As thin as the 50 inch vizio but its inputs were covered by a plastic door like thing. Does anybody know what im talking about? They also had the lcd sony's across the floor.[/QUOTE]

Sony doesn't show any plasma TVs in the current lineup on their flat panel product page (http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_BrowseCatalog-Start?CategoryName=tv_flatpanel_26to42&Dept=tvvideo). They used to market plasmas, although they never made their own panels which is a big reason they're pushing LCD now over plasma. What you saw must be an older model. Sony did make a few good plasmas, though I don't know how they compare to the current best of breed.

[raven69david]

Reading this thread makes me laugh. I've had this tv for 7 months and i've had ZERO issues; no burn-in, no ghosting, no black level issues, no fan issues, NOTHING!

I'm not gonna let someone else con me to believe paying more is actually better. I'll go by visually looking at both pictures from my Vizio to any other brand name out there. I did my shopping before i bought my TV and the Vizio was comparable to alot of tv's out there. When i noticed a difference in picture, all i did was ask for the remote, i adjusted the settings, and then the tv looked just as good as the Maxent, Panasonic, Pioneer, etc in the stores. I don't need someone telling me that this or that is better because of the components. It all boils down to how YOU think the picture looks. You can make almost any tv look better by adjusting the factory settings. I did with mine as i made them more vivid and vibrant. I've had no problems with burn-in or the like.

All i've seen is better blacks out of the more pricier tv's and that means almost nothing to me...i don't watch dark programming - i watch rich & vibrant movies and shows. Any color issues i can fix by adjusting the picture. You all can geek it up as much as you want, but i'm keeping my Vizio until the day it burns out, or my daughter throws something at it. :eek: