View Full Version : Denon 5805 Mkii
It appears that the infamous monster 5805 is "discontinued" for the new 5805 MKII.
The MKII will now process 1080P and will also process analog video up-conversion.
There are a couple of other features that I just can't remember right now.
In keeping with their crazy marketing of this "receiver" (I mean "solution"), Denon's infinite wisdom dictates that the MSRP should now be an eye popping $7000! :eek:
Yes, that's a $1000 increase over the 5805. For the 5805 owner, you do have the option of upgrading these features for a fee. Yes for a fee (not free). :p
Am I crazy or is the price getting a tad high? I know this unit gets rave reviews and has set new standards but....
This is just an FYI so please don't shoot the messenger. :rolleyes:
Cheers,
Jim E.
awtryau89
04-20-06, 05:26 PM
First post...??? :confused:
Yes. Though I recently joined, I've been snooping on this forum for years. Why?
[QUOTE=awtryau89]First post...??? :confused:[/QUOTE]
sipester
04-21-06, 10:56 AM
[QUOTE=Jim E.]It appears that the infamous monster 5805 is "discontinued" for the new 5805 MKII.
The MKII will now process 1080P and will also process analog video up-conversion.
Cheers,
Jim E.[/QUOTE]
What's your source, do you have any links on this? They did a similar update with the 5803 (added HDCD and some other things) but I don't think they raised the price on the 5803A.
The A1XV in the UK/Europe is also due to be replaced by the A1XVA which includes all the updates (1080P switching, analog to HDMI conversion, scaling via HDMI). Denon UK confirmed this and were due to update their Website sometime this month. Nothing was mentioned with regards to pricing.
As mentioned by the original poster, existing owners will be able to upgrade their units for a fee.
I get it! That's why I was asked if this was my first post... :)
Ok here goes:
You can get the info from the horse's mouth at:
Denon Electronics (USA), LLC
Attn: Customer Service
19C Chapin Road, Suite 205
Pine Brook, NJ 07058-9385
Tel. 973-396-0810 (Main Office)
You will need to go to tech support.
How did I find out? I've been eyeing up the 5805 for some time now. J&R in NYC has had the 5805 reduced to $4000 (6K MSRP) for some time. Last time I was there the salesperson told me it was discontinued and that the MKII was in their system but none on order yet. On the screen I saw that the MSRP for the MKII was 7K and that J&R would be seeling it for 6K. That's what prompted my call to Denon USA.
Denon USA did not confirm the price since it wasn't on their site. Rep. told me she couldn't quote me a price etc...
I decided to hold off because I could not verify all the changes to the MKII. And I would prefer to have an updated unit and not haul a 100 lb unit for updates.
Hope this helps.
Jim E.
[QUOTE=sipester]What's your source, do you have any links on this? They did a similar update with the 5803 (added HDCD and some other things) but I don't think they raised the price on the 5803A.[/QUOTE]
Details of the A1XVA are now up at Denon Germany.
http://www.denon.de/site/frames_main.php?main=prod&ver=0&MID=3&sub=1&action=detail&Pid=270
Price increase of 1000 euros and it will now also scale to 1080P via HDMI. New remote as well.
sipester
04-22-06, 09:49 AM
In addition to the new remote, scaling to 1080p, analog upconversion, and ethernet upgrade, note also that it has 2 more hdmi inputs. That makes for a total of 6 digital video inputs and 6 component inputs. Still no XM or Ipod connectivity, but it amazes me how the highend Denon receivers are miles ahead of the competition when it comes to features and connectivity options.
The upgrade specs for the A1XV are also up at Denon Germany:-
http://www.denon.de/site/frames_main.php?main=prod&ver=0&MID=3&sub=1&action=detail&Pid=288
Also has the upgrade Instruction Manual:-
http://www.denon.de/site/datadir/pdf/ba/Bed_UpgradeII.pdf
Andre Smith
04-22-06, 10:11 AM
On the AVR-5805 Owner's Club link of the Denon USA website, there are 2 new operating manual downloads available detailing the Mark II 1080P and ethernet upgrades, slated for an April/May 2006 release. The video conversion reference chart for the analog/digital transcoding/conversion looks rather cryptic.
Andre'
[QUOTE=sipester] but it amazes me how the highend Denon receivers are miles ahead of the competition when it comes to features and connectivity options.[/QUOTE]
And with them also being at roughly anywhere from $1,500-$3,000 more money than the competition with the 5805. They damn well should offer more. It's not like they are giving you something for free over the competition, you are most definitely paying a lot extra for it!
DreamCatcher
04-22-06, 11:06 AM
[QUOTE=Johnla]And with them also being at roughly anywhere from $1,500-$3,000 more money than the competition with the 5805. They damn well should offer more. It's not like they are giving you something for free over the competition, you are most definitely paying a lot extra for it![/QUOTE]
Compared to what? Would any other unit, if it existed, containing the features, connectivity and quality parts of the 5805 be any cheaper?
Anyway, I wonder if the upgraded 5805s will get the two extra digital video inputs added to it?
dc
[QUOTE=DreamCatcher]
Anyway, I wonder if the upgraded 5805s will get the two extra digital video inputs added to it?
[/QUOTE]
The upgrade for the A1XV gets the extra inputs so I'd assume the 5805 would as well. :)
[QUOTE=DreamCatcher]Compared to what? Would any other unit, if it existed, containing the features, connectivity and quality parts of the 5805 be any cheaper?[/QUOTE]
Your missing the point, it's not like those features are not being charged for.
He tried to make it look like it was something that you get for free, when compared to other brands, and it's not.
And as for quality parts, I don't really think that Denon uses any higher quality parts in their flagship receiver, than many of the others do. It's not likely that any of them are giving you junk parts when you start hitting the $4k+ range that most of the flagships are in.
DreamCatcher
04-22-06, 01:42 PM
[QUOTE=Johnla]Your missing the point, it's not like those features are not being charged for.
He tried to make it look like it was something that you get for free, when compared to other brands, and it's not.
And as for quality parts, I don't really think that Denon uses any higher quality parts in their flagship receiver, than many of the others do. It's not likely that any of them are giving you junk parts when you start hitting the $4k+ range that most of the flagships are in.[/QUOTE]
Good point, most components above $4k contain comparable quality parts.
It's just that there is nothing else out there that gives you so much....
regardless of price.
IMHO the upgraded 5805 is going to be, even for $7k, a great deal relatively speaking.
To approach it's combination of features, connectivity, quality, etc, one would have to spend that much on the processor alone, if that's even available as of yet. Add in the 5805s 10 channels of 170, well reviewed/measured, watts of power...
Pretty tough to beat, IHMO.
dc
sipester
04-23-06, 10:14 PM
[QUOTE=DreamCatcher]Compared to what? Would any other unit, if it existed, containing the features, connectivity and quality parts of the 5805 be any cheaper?
[/QUOTE]
I agree with dc on the this point. For starters, any comparable receiver or processor would need to also have a video processor or at least video switcher to match the 12 in, 5 out for hi-def video sources on the new 5805. You would also need some audio switchers and extra amps to match the 4-zone, 22 channel, 10 amps of the 5805.
Then, how many high-end receivers can even handle the new HD-DVD audio format, SACD, DVD-A, and HDCD in the digital domain (including 3 ways for DVD-A, four if you count that it can convert the 5.1 input to digital). You can't add this to any receiver or processor without some serious hardware upgrades. The only other products in this category with comparable connectivity and features that I know of are the Anthem D2 (which does HD-DVD audio but not SACD or DVD-A) and the Onkyo/Integra/Integra Research which does SACD and DVD-A but not HD DVD Audio.
I'm not saying the 5805 sounds better than comparably priced products, just noting that the features and connectivity options in the 5805 was already far above any other receiver or pre-pro and the new upgrade puts it even further ahead.
[QUOTE=sipester] just noting that the features and connectivity options in the 5805 was already far above any other receiver or pre-pro and the new upgrade puts it even further ahead.[/QUOTE]
And again, you are also charged accordingly for all this. It's not like at the new MSRP of $7k, that they are giving this all away for a low price. Even the old MSRP of $6k, was certainly not a give away either.
danielo
04-24-06, 06:43 AM
One area where it clearly falls short is the deinterlacer/scaler, The D2 will beat it by a large margin. What i don't get is why they didn't remove it and added the new dvdo deinterlacer and scaler since they already work with that company for the 5910. The number of inputs make it even more sad that its now limited in that area. The D2 clearly set the way for how a deinterlacer/scaler can and should be part of the unit. Had they done that then the 1k extra would have made perfect sense.
Daniel.
DreamCatcher
04-24-06, 11:48 AM
[QUOTE=danielo]One area where it clearly falls short is the deinterlacer/scaler, The D2 will beat it by a large margin. What i don't get is why they didn't remove it and added the new dvdo deinterlacer and scaler since they already work with that company for the 5910. The number of inputs make it even more sad that its now limited in that area. The D2 clearly set the way for how a deinterlacer/scaler can and should be part of the unit. Had they done that then the 1k extra would have made perfect sense.
Daniel.[/QUOTE]
Yes this would have been nice, great in fact!
But instead of a $1k increase it probably would have been closer to $2k :eek:
Hopefully the HDMI upgrade to the 5805 will better utilize it's built in scaler to accomadate custom resolutions and scaling of progressive inputs. If they do it right the 5805's scaling abilities, while not in the D2's league, could be pretty good.
dc
[QUOTE=DreamCatcher]Yes this would have been nice, great in fact!
But instead of a $1k increase it probably would have been closer to $2k :eek:
[/QUOTE]
Don't worry...
They are probably saving the $1,500-$2,000 upgrade costs, for whenever the HDMI 1.3 upgrade arrives. And then maybe another one again later when native support for the new sound formats comes out and is added to it. They pretty much have you guys over the barrel with this when you already initially invested around $6k in the AVR to begin with, and they know it. And by the time it's up to the 5805 MKIII or IV version, or whatever it may end up as, you may have close to $10k invested in it.
I'd rather have the option of upgrading my existing unit than be forced to sell it and buy a new version. Although, I've no doubt that eventually the upgrades will cease but if the current ones extend the life of the unit then I'm happy. If they release an HDMI 1.3 upgrade then that should give us the ability to natively decode the new sound formats. :)
[QUOTE=Jase H] If they release an HDMI 1.3 upgrade then that should give us the ability to natively decode the new sound formats. :)[/QUOTE]
No. That will still only pass whatever sound formats the device itself is outputting at, and if that device also has it's own internal decoding and processing that it does, then yes you would then also get whatever it is. But otherwise just adding HDMI 1.3 alone, would add no new additional decoding processing features to the AVR itself.
Getting into this thread late but do you have any idea what kind of awesome separates you could get for $7,000! I mean this is ridiculous. You could get awesome separates for less than this price. I think its insane to spend that kid of cash on a receiver just my opinion though. J.H.
danielo
04-24-06, 03:19 PM
[QUOTE=J.H.]Getting into this thread late but do you have any idea what kind of awesome separates you could get for $7,000! I mean this is ridiculous. You could get awesome separates for less than this price. I think its insane to spend that kid of cash on a receiver just my opinion though. J.H.[/QUOTE]
The point is if the scaler is done correctly (and imho a dvdo combo that replaces the faroudja would not cost 2k for that money it better be a hqv or genum). You would also
have a scaler/switcher with _6_ dvi/hdmi in, 6 component in, 2 dvi/hdmi out, 2 component out and a silly number of svideo and composite. Maybe its just me but i don't even know a scaler under 10k that has this number of inputs.
Daniel.
danielo
04-24-06, 03:23 PM
[QUOTE=DreamCatcher]Yes this would have been nice, great in fact!
But instead of a $1k increase it probably would have been closer to $2k :eek:
Hopefully the HDMI upgrade to the 5805 will better utilize it's built in scaler to accomadate custom resolutions and scaling of progressive inputs. If they do it right the 5805's scaling abilities, while not in the D2's league, could be pretty good.
dc[/QUOTE]
Reading the way the specs are online my guess is no, more proof they have not gone for the kill in this area :(. pity the D2 on specs is nice but a 5805 with a similar scaler and flexible setup of its scaler would be all by itself resulting in a scaler with inputs and outputs that have no equal even in external scalers at the moment.
Daniel.
Receivers will always have more bells and whistles but in my opinion are not worth the $7,000 price tag in sound quality. You could get AWESOME Parasound Halo separates for that money. Rotel,Arcam and B&K for less than that and in my opinion will sound better. I just don't get speding that much on a receiver. If you buy the Parasound Halp A51 5 channels 150 watts per channel amp that will never get old technology wise and the Halo C2 processor that would sound ridiculous. I just don't get but to each his own right. Denon seriously consider producing separates. They are at price point that it makes sense and I for one would be EXTREMELY interested. J.H.
[QUOTE=J.H.] You could get AWESOME Parasound Halo separates for that money. Rotel,Arcam and B&K for less than that and in my opinion will sound better. [/QUOTE]
And guess what, just because it's your opinion that they will. It also don't mean that they actually will......
Huh? Your statement did not make sense. I am not picking a fight here I just think its ridiculous to spend $7,000 on a receiver but like I said to each his own. God bless whoever goes for it. J.H.
ronster
04-24-06, 06:44 PM
[QUOTE=Johnla]Don't worry...
They are probably saving the $1,500-$2,000 upgrade costs, for whenever the HDMI 1.3 upgrade arrives. And then maybe another one again later when native support for the new sound formats comes out and is added to it. They pretty much have you guys over the barrel with this when you already initially invested around $6k in the AVR to begin with, and they know it. And by the time it's up to the 5805 MKIII or IV version, or whatever it may end up as, you may have close to $10k invested in it.[/QUOTE]
So the next version should be:
MKIII - HQV DECODING / DVDO SCALING / HDMI 1.3 :D
[QUOTE=J.H.]Huh? Your statement did not make sense.[/QUOTE]
Oh yes it did.
[QUOTE=ronster]So the next version should be:
MKIII - HQV DECODING / DVDO SCALING / HDMI 1.3 :D[/QUOTE]
Actually. I'm wondering how far they will go with the basic chassis that they have now, and just continue to upgrade it. Before they decide to just draw up a complete new design. Sooner or later they will probably run into some sort of issues that will probably require that they go to a whole new design. That and the fact that they are primarily in business to sell people new receivers and other equipment like DVD player and such, and not to really just offer upgrades for their older products. That may work OK for smaller companies like Anthem, that seem to go out of their way to keep things upgradeable as much as possible. But I don't think for the bigger companies like Denon, that they are really looking for or interested in that kind of product market. They are more bottom line driven, they want to make new sales more than they care about upgrades for the older sales.
ronster
04-25-06, 02:39 AM
[QUOTE=Johnla]Actually. I'm wondering how far they will go with the basic chassis that they have now, and just continue to upgrade it. Before they decide to just draw up a complete new design. Sooner or later they will probably run into some sort of issues that will probably require that they go to a whole new design. That and the fact that they are primarily in business to sell people new receivers and other equipment like DVD player and such, and not to really just offer upgrades for their older products. That may work OK for smaller companies like Anthem, that seem to go out of their way to keep things upgradeable as much as possible. But I don't think for the bigger companies like Denon, that they are really looking for or interested in that kind of product market. They are more bottom line driven, they want to make new sales more than they care about upgrades for the older sales.[/QUOTE]
Or they can re-badge the MKIII as the 5807??
ronster
04-25-06, 02:41 AM
Am I wrong?
[QUOTE=ronster]Am I wrong?[/QUOTE]
No, you're not wrong. They offered an upgrade to the 5800 which added a new digital board, dac's, processor's etc. Gained Dolby PLII, THX Ultra 2 modes, amongst other things.
[QUOTE=Johnla]No. That will still only pass whatever sound formats the device itself is outputting at, and if that device also has it's own internal decoding and processing that it does, then yes you would then also get whatever it is. But otherwise just adding HDMI 1.3 alone, would add no new additional decoding processing features to the AVR itself.[/QUOTE]
I'd assume they'd update the 5805's decoding ability as well. Be kind of pointless of they didn't.
[QUOTE=ronster]Am I wrong?[/QUOTE]
No, you are not wrong. Yes they did, on the 5800 to a 5803 conversion. But once they ran out of upgrade kits, the ability to do so was also ended. They only made so many kits, and then that was it, the upgrade was ended.
I don't know for sure how they determine the amount of kits they will offer, I think they have people sign up first when they announce a upgrade. And then maybe use that figure to determine the amount of kits that should be made available, and then somehow figure out a extra amount above that.
TXCOWBOY
05-25-06, 03:46 PM
The 5805 MK2 is now showing on the Denon website at an MSRP of $7000.00. I assume that they will be in stores shortly.
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